Pajamas Media

249 Comments

Jon Motherwell:

This is kind of an old story: why men don’t marry. The harsh truth is that there is little good reason for men to marry, especially today when divorce laws have been stacked so thoroughly in favor of women. Marriage is an act of total irrationality for men. The surprising thing is that men marry at all. They don’t have to do it for sex. Radical feminism has made marriage a highly unattractive proposition for men in today’s society.

Feb 7, 2008 - 4:38 am Tony Ryan:

I’m with Jon on this one.

If someone can name one single positive step society has taken to make marriage even remotely attractive to men in the last 20 years I’d love to hear it.

Marriage is all about the woman. Why would any rational man want to legally hand over control of his life to her and a biased legal system?

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:09 am unmarried man:

I’m 33 and not married. I’m not so anxious to join a system when it and all of its rules are set up against me.

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:32 am SWLiP:

I think the problem is that young men come to the realization that they are not really needed. Boys grow up instinctively wanting to be heroes, but the irony is that successive generations of male heroics have made the world safe enough that women no longer need heroes in their lives; they want “partners.” It comes out sounding more like a business proposition, and a rather bland one at that.

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:36 am Ennuipundit:

I remember a column from five or maybe even six years ago that Paul Craig Roberts wrote regarding this very issue, and essentially reaching the same conclusion. What material benefit does marriage provide to men, who can gain many of the benefits previously available within the framework of the marriage covenant outside of that covenant? If man can satisfy his sexual needs, while maintaining relationships that satisfy his need for fellowship and not sacrificing his individual freedom, then why marry.

The societal benefits are no longer nested within self-interest and therefore do not seem to be relevant. In addition, the risk involved in marriage is high. A woman can fabricate a story detailing alleged misconduct or merely express suspicions that her soon to be ex-husband has abused her, or has proclivities to abuse their children, or children in general, and his rights are curtailed for the protection of others. The presumption of innocence is not applicable in divorce proceedings, merely the appearance of credibility on the part of the accuser. That inverse burden of proof in itself creates a massive barrier to marriage. Using a communal property model that mandates a fifty-fifty split of a couple’s material wealth upon divorce, and the likelihood of generous spousal and child support awards, coupled with the rate of divorce, marriage translates into an effective 25-30% reduction of wealth and future earnings for a man. Why pay that price for the cow, when milk is readily available for free?

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:39 am Phil:

I am a young single man in my late twenties who has not “had the chance to settle down” yet. I’ve been living overseas in some pretty hostile countries doing relief work and I’ve been cut off from civilization for the past few years, so I guess that explains why.

I can’t speak for others, but when I was younger there were some things that I knew I wanted to do (eventually getting married being one of them), but I had to do them in the right order otherwise it would have been very difficult. So I guess I prioritized my goals. Does putting off marriage for now while I accomplish other worthy goals make me immature? I should think not; in fact I can think of few more immature things to do than to get married and then run off to accomplish what you want to do on your own.

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:39 am Travis:

I was never a perpetual adolescent, I was a perpetual adult. Teenagers were a group I never understood even when I was that age. I couldn’t wait to grow up.

It strikes me that for every phenomenon there is an equal and opposite phenomenon.

In this case I think we’ve also hit on the reason for record re-enlistments. The military life is a life that suits young men, by challenging them.

In another age, these men would be far more celebrated.

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:44 am Webutante:

How about ‘both-and?’

Feminism has probably made marriage less attractive in some cases, as some women become more militant and less feminine and thus less attractive to the average American man.

In addition, I think we’ve lived/are still living through the greatest economic expansion in the history of the world. As such, we’re all more spoiled and soft than we realize. We cannot discount this factor. That includes many of the marriagable men.

I think it’s easy to reduce the problem to one convenient cause when a constellation of causes seems in order.

One other interesting trend does seem to be emerging: men who do marry seem to be having more children today. This pendulum may swing the marrige rate back too.

No matter how politically obsolete feminism tries to make men, the reality has never changed: women need men and vice versa.

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:52 am Larry:

Why Men don’t marry? Being in the trenches all of these years, from my point of view, women don;t want men, but Bad Boys. If they do want to marry a man, then the man is an executive making a six figure salary. The dynamics of marriage have changed, which i agree with others, makes getting married and even staying married not an ideal solution. There are some women who believe in following their HUSBAND, but others who are more independent and follow their own path, thus the problem.
THere are a lot of girls out there wanting to get married, but no real women who are up to par, worthy of raising a family and being a home maker or even balancing home and work.
Before you start pointing the finger at why Men don;t marry or even assigning blame, why don;t you look at the type of men that are getting married.

Feb 7, 2008 - 5:57 am tolbert:

For young males the proposition of marriage has become “all risk and no reward”.

I have been married for a very enjoyable 25 years, but the times they have changed.

I have a 10 year old son and under no circumstance would I ever encourage him to get married.

We reap what we sow and this harvest is indeed cursed for it was sown with a hard and bitter seed.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:01 am David Thomson:

“the reward for being an adult in our society is so low, especially for men.”

White men are the perceived enemies of society. The message has been heard loud and clear. Dr. Helen is merely commenting on the inevitable result. At this very moment, a grossly ignorant human being named Barack Obama may become our next president of the United States. He is the quintessential example of affirmative action gone amuck. What more to you need to know? A vacuum of leadership threatens this country. David Duke and his buddies are anxious to fill it.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:11 am rosignol:

Simple question: what’s in it for us?

The old answer was ’social standing’. People weren’t really considered adults until they were married and had a kid. This is no longer the case.

After seeing my parents marriage end in divorce, and several of my friends have had their lives royally f’d up by unfaithful, scheming, b******, I have a pretty long list of reasons not to get married.

The only reason I can see for getting married is that it’s easier to afford a house on two incomes… but even that is more of a con than a pro these days. Even if the real estate market wasn’t screwed up, if the relationship falls apart, the judge will award her the property (and probably the newer car) anyways.

Is it any surprise that more and more men are deciding it’s not worth it?

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:20 am DoktorNo:

When I see the social trends like this, I feel sorry for the future of Western Civilization.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:33 am Josh:

I am in my mid-30’s and have been married for almost 9 years. I was fortunate to find a woman who became my best friend during our relationship, and with whom I enjoy time even without the physical/romantic piece of the relationship which has also been intrinsic to our success. While I agree that the rules are certainly set up against men, I wanted to and became married because I had a desire to raise a family, and do so at an age where I will be healthy and able when my children are in their 20’s, 30’s, and even 40’s. Not everyone agrees with me, but I believe the best and healthiest way to raise said children is within the context of a healthy marriage. I realize, however, how fortunate I have been, and that not everyone finds someone as I did. Certainly, I would not have married had I not found someone I considered to be an ideal partner.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:36 am M:

It isn’t news to most men that Marriage isn’t a cost-effective proposition. But what probably is news, even to men, is how likely it is to end up stripping them of anything resembling rights and disenfranchising them. The financial ruin that follows divorce is credited for the huge rate of male suicide compared to women.

But this is just one element of our society’s war on men - even more horrific is how men are punished in an entirely different way by the courts than women are. As a culture we seem to be saying that we don’t want men anymore. Don’t be suprised if they respond by finding some way to go elsewhere.

-M

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:38 am SGT Ted:

“…give young men a choice between serious drama on the one hand, and Victoria’s Secret models, battling cyborgs, exploding toilets, and the NFL on the other, and it’s the models, cyborgs, toilets, and football by a mile.”

And here is one of the reasons why: Snearing at mens entertainment choices. I am married and a grandfather. I don’t care for much of whats on TV and chickflicks are chickflicks, not guyflicks. When was the last time this woman sat with her man to watch exploding cyborges or interact with him in a video game? Why is sitting like a drone in front of the TV at night “better” than interacting with others playing an online video game?

Why is her entertainment choice “better” than his? Isn’t it the typical feminista arrogance to want to control what men like to watch?

These types of women don’t get men and they don’t want to; they want them to be girlfriends with a penis and upperbody strength, rather than individuals with their own likes and dislikes that are very different from women. duh. Talk about self centered thinking.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:38 am Darksbane:

I was married at 21 and divorced because my wife cheated at 26. Would I like to be married again? Sure. But logic says I’d be an idiot to do so. I got lucky in that my ex-wife was so eager to be with her other man that she accepted a 50/50 split of assets, but what are the chances the next woman I marry will do the same when she dedides that life needs to be more exciting. Logic says that marriage is inferior to the security and financial stability of being single.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:40 am Mark Buehner:

I agree with the reality of marriage for men, but the idealized marriage as portrayed in media is actually much worse.

Find me a sitcom where the husband isnt an overgrown adolescent on the receiving end of serial ‘life lessons’ from his spouse (or children!). From televsion to movies to commericals, men are portrayed as inept boobs and their wives as a nanny or mommy. Say what you want about Father Knows Best, but at least it presented something young men might aspire to.

I understand somebody has to be a foil in television, and since political correctness has ruled out women and basically everyone else the brunt falls on men. Fine, its just another cross men will silently bear- but don’t expect us to run to the altar for ‘adulthood indoctrination’, which is the appetizing proposition people like Kay Hymowitz seem to believe marriage is.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:41 am seejay:

Dr. Helen is right of course. But there’s more: it’s mainly WHITE MEN that our government, media, and “education establishment” want to just GO AWAY!
David Thomson, in his comment above states that “David Duke and his buddies” are anxious to step in. Mr. Thomson says this like it’s a BAD THING!
Dr. Duke is a White Advocate! If we have to put up with Black, Latino, and Muslim advocates why are there no “good” White advocates? Because White people, especially White Men, are to be “phased-out”! The “DIVERSITY” nazis HATE WHITE MEN and have been extremely effective at reducing our numbers.
Wake-up White men! We have made such a rich and successful world that the non-Whites have decided they can now take it from us!
The ONLY WAY TO SAVE OUR NATION AND OUR PEOPLE is for us to finally stand together! Not against anyone, but FOR our people and a future for our children!

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:42 am skymuse:

I am 37 and have bought a home with my girlfriend. We do not plan on having children. In addition, we do not share the same views on finances — she still has over 25k of student loans plus multiple credit card debts, whereas I am a Dave Ramsey disciple and have no debt other than our mortgage.

It has nothing to do with cyborgs or partying; I don’t want to absorb her debt, and if the absolute worst happens, we only have to deal with selling the house and there are no further legal entanglements.

In the meantime, if she gets serious about dealing with her debt then I can get serious about a more legal and permanent arrangement.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:46 am Sol:

It seems to me there’s something screwy about the way the question is being framed if a preference for action movies and sports over “serious” drama is considered a sign of perpetual adolescence. I’m 30-something doing my best to create a family, and I certainly prefer action movies and spots. My father is in his 60s, and so does he; and I’m pretty sure my grandfather never chose a drama over a baseball game.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:51 am Peg C.:

I found my hubby on the internet when I was 38; but for that I am pretty sure I’d never have married. Plenty of women don’t want or are unsuited for marriage as well.

As for men, I look around at the young women I see and know and can’t imagine being a man and wanting to be with them, much less entrust myself and my treasure to them. This is what the sexual revolution has wrought: women and men who only need each other for sex. The forces driving the young to marriage and adulthood no longer exist. No one “needs” children and they are easily avoided; they must truly be wanted now.

It’s amazing anyone marries anymore, and that’s a tragedy. I do believe civilization depends on stable families and homelives.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:51 am Don:

Let’s see. You raise the price of cigarettes through taxes and the use goes down. Surprise. You have other advocates pushing to raise gas tax sky high to reduce people from consuming gas. Yet, the ‘bad boys’ propagators don’t get that raising the price of marriage with the 50/50 chance of failure is going to deter human behavior? What was the logic/rationale for the first two cases?

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:51 am justadolescent:

Helen,

You are very close, but you’re still missing the mark. ” … The reward for being an adult in our society is so low, especially for men.”

It’s ONLY low for men … and that’s the trouble.

Women used to bring something to the relationship table - stability. Men brought security, women brought stability. That promoted the environment for raising a family. Women no longer bring stability - indeed, have demanded their “right” to destroy the family at their first whim, and have the man pay for it for the rest of his life.

Guess what? We don’t like that deal. So, we’re taking our marbles and going to play elsewhere. Adolescent, you say? Seems like name calling to me by the very people who set up the rules to favor themselves.

Women used to also bring sex to the table. Now, they give it to us for free on the second date, and more shockingly, to anyone for free on the internet.

Have you seen what women are doing in front of the camera lately? And the vast number of them doing it?

Women just don’t think like men. We weigh our options and do what’s in our interests. Women live in a world they constructed and believe their actions have no consequences.

It’s quite sad, really. Because I’d love to get married again and start a family with a woman I could love.

Too bad women have made that such a bad deal for me.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:55 am David Thomson:

Excuse me—but where is my comment posted only a few minutes ago? Am I being censored for arguing that manhood is essentially attacked because of its perceived connection to the white race? Something is really wrong.

Feb 7, 2008 - 6:55 am Ralph Phelan:

Webutant:

One other interesting trend does seem to be emerging: men who do marry seem to be having more children today.

Josh:

While I agree that the rules are certainly set up against men, I wanted to and became married because I had a desire to raise a family

Sounds like “wanting to be a father” is pretty much the only reason strong enough for wanting to put up with the downsides.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:00 am Kasper Hauser:

As the old saying goes “Why buy the cow when Baskin Robbins is giving away all 84 flavors for free?”

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:03 am Brian:

Mark–check out “How I Met Your Mother” on CBS. Granted, the married couple is young and so far childless, but it’s really portrayed as a marriage of equals. Two of the other main characters were in a serious relationship, but broke up when the woman was afraid of commitment. And Neal Patrick Harris is a serial womanizer. Funny and a much more accurate portrayal of life for New Yorkers in their late 20s.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:05 am Dr. Gregory G. Oman:

Dr. Helen,
Obviously there is no one answer. One common thread is men are not being taught how to be men by a man in the home. The glorification of materialism, fear, lack of faith, selfishness, any and all of these are reasons. I cannot imagine it bodes well for society as committed relationships and the determination to raise a solid family continues downward in our country.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:06 am Joe:

Don’t just ask why men don’t want to marry, ask what women have done to make themselves so unattractive to a potential mate. It takes two to tango, perpetual adolescence in men would be only half the dance.
My brother is spending a huge chunk of his income on child support. The problem is that two of the three kids are not his. The court determined that since he acted like a dad he could pick up the tab like a dad. Funny thing is that five minutes after my brother bailed out the real father of the two moved in; and “Mom” bought a a convertible with “Dad’s” first check.
This is just one example of how the risk/reward ratio doesn’t make marriage worth considering.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:06 am Bill:

My parents, lovely people both, stayed together in an unhappy marriage “for the kids.” They taught me by example to delay marriage at minimum until I was 30. I spent my 20s and early 30s working abroad and picking up a couple graduate degrees in the US.

By the time I reached my early 30s and began to look for a wife in the US I found in the market the following… (1) immature women who had married at 24 wanting to be taken care of and were subsequently divorced and living out some sort of post-adolescent partying fantasy at 30; (2) women who had unresolved male/father issues and whom I didn’t want to get near.

It was nearly impossible to find an educated, professional, single American (or Canadian) woman who was secure enough to truly enjoy solitude and independence.

One of my lovers (a woman with a flourishing career) who was desperate to get remarried actually told me once that it was OK for me to want to be alone occasionally. In fact, she said that she would permit me to have an office/den in our house into which I would be allowed to retreat occasionally. Needless to say I exited swiftly.

I ended up marrying in my late 30s an exquisite, foreign-born woman who emigrated to North America after getting a PhD and establishing her career. She is brave and resourceful having left all of her family, whom she adores, to move halfway around the world in order to secure the life she wants.

She wanted a husband who was a companion, a friend, and a father to children. Most of all, however, she wanted independence within interdependence.

We encourage each other to take time away from each other and our family in order to maintain and develop friendships and simply to get a break.

Accordingly, our marriage works extremely well. I find marriage fulfilling and even better than my wonderful single life. But boy did I have to search long and hard. I completely understand why men don’t marry.

BTW, this is a phenomenon in Canada, too, where I lived for a seven years. Canadian laws are even more discouraging of marriage than American ones are.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:07 am leishman:

Interesting topic. I’m 59, with four kids (three sons, one daughter) ages 22 to 34, none married or even close to being so, nor desiring to be so, and I’m not sure why. Some of it is educational (the older three are still pursuing their education, i.e. graduate school). My daughter is afraid of having kids that she will “screw up” (she’s in a PhD psychology program!) and two of my sons are not on the traditional success-trip. My two youngest sons (29 and 22) have both seen the ways our system that “empowers” women at their expense (bogus sexual harrassment allegations) and that tells them of their manifold and manifest flaws for being male. I think they believe that young women’s many expectations make my sons think it’s not worth the trouble.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:08 am El Hombre:

This one is too easy. Why buy a cow when you can get milk for free? Uh, remember when people married to have sex? No, didn’t think so.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:12 am Lamont Cranston:

Did you know that your live-in female partner can request a restraining order against you, and get it? All she has to do is be willing to state that she “feels threatened.” You have no appeal, there is no trial, and you do not get to tell your side of the story. With a stroke of his pen, the judge will throw you out of your home and banish you to at least 1000′ away. If you’re lucky you’ll get to go and retrieve your clothes.

This can be your apartment, your house you build with your own hands, or even a dwelling that’s been in your family for five generations. Doesn’t matter. What matters is she “feels threatened.”

Even if she calms down and the retraining order expires, it will sit there, on your record forever, and any time you have to interface with officialdom, you’ll have to explain it.

Cohabiting is a fools game. I’m married, and actually pretty damn happy. But I got very, very lucky. I’d never do it again. All the legal power is in the woman’s hands, and if she gets mad, you’re doomed.

Lamont

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:12 am charles:

I didn’t marry until I was 30. I don’t recall avoiding it, I just hadn’t met the right person. When I did, I married her. She turned out not to be the one (technically since she left, I guess I wasn’t the one). It crushed me and I am hesitant to even date more than 4-5 times for fear of getting hurt like that again. I would much rather be married than not, but I don’t trust women. I’m sure I have some issues to work out.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:15 am Pixelkiller:

So, what’s the complaint? Is there a complaint? A young man needn’t get married as there are so many agreeable young women with “round heels” running about.
Back in the 6th grade I believe, while studing ancient Greek history, there was a story or play about yet another Greek war. The women of this little Greek state all got together and agreed that there would be no more sleeping with their men until those same men agreed to stop fighting and killing. A dilema; no more war or no more sex. In the story it worked and the warring stopped. Musta been a morality play, ya think?
To put it in coarser and more modern language, “Why buy a cow when milk’s so cheap?”.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:17 am Steve:

This subject and last weeks are related in ways you haven’t thought of yet.

Feminism has been spoken of earlier and I think this is the major factor in the decision to not marry. Men are pigs, rapists, pedophiles; the battle cry of enough “women” to make any male hesitate (for life) before “committing.” Western Civilization is not dead, but life support has been turned off and the patient is gasping for air–thanks to Gloria Marie Steinem (and her ilk).

How does this relate to middle age virginity? Simple, “pigs” & “rapists” have no chance. This is part of the confidence or esteem that was mentioned last week. It is what is beginning to bounce around in my head and that is sad.

When it comes right down to it, the successful woman doesn’t need me and I sure don’t need her. I’ll spend my money on my motorcycle or trips to Europe to ride said motorcycle, not on a empty shell who only socializes with me because I liquidate my portfolio on her and I’ll bet my last dollar that that is what pisses women off the most.

Man, do I sound bitter!?! I’ll get off my soapbox now.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:18 am Ed Piman:

When I hear about gays demanding the right to marry, I always wonder why on earth they would want to. Some people just don’t know when they’re better off.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:19 am David Thomson:

“We do not plan on having children.”

Such an attitude if widely shared dooms Western Civilization. There is no hope for the future. It is impossible to raise children in a narcissistic culture. We must also face the awkward fact that the Islamic extremists usually have large families. I have serious issues with Pat Buchanan. He is not even close to being a favorite of mine. Actually, I consider him to be something of a buffoon. He is nonetheless right to warn us about the frightening repercussions concerning our dramatic drop in population.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:19 am Kent G. Budge:

As others have hinted, I think the question is being posed backwords. Given the current incentive structure, the wonder is not that so many men are refusing to marry, but that so many are still getting married.

My motivations for getting married were largely religious; the particulars need not concern us here. My motivations for remaining married include the original religious ones, but also a strong sense of duty (not necessarily religious in nature) towards the children of my marriage and also a pragmatic concern with the economic ruin that would follow divorce.

Some of the talk here suggests that your readers feel marriage was once all about the man and the woman and has mutated to being all about the woman. In fact, marriage is mostly about the kids, as it pretty much has always been. From that perspective, I can only agree with teh commenter who said that Wstern civilization is in trouble. We are in free fall, and the pavement is coming up might fast.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:21 am James:

I read that piece myself when it came out and wrote a quick little blog post on it. This was one section that pretty much summer up my opinion:

As I was once told in a course on how to be a salesman, ‘Every persons favorite radio station is WIIFM’ (What’s in it for me?). I fail to see how anything in that story amounted to anything other than ‘you should work hard because I say so’. If you want to figure out why people change their behavior, do a cost benefit analysis.

And that is pretty much it.

-j

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:23 am Skyler:

I’m with SGT Ted. Why is it that a “serious” drama is better than an action movie? Or exploding toilets?

There are “serious” action movies, too. The movie “300″ comes to mind. It teaches the importance of manly virtues such as courage, honor, dedication to country and freedom.

I suppose since it puts these critical themes in a truly dangerous element instead of being about feelings and emotional commitments, then it’s not really “serious.” It can’t be about life and death of nation and individual if it’s “serious.”

The same even goes for exploding toilets. No “serious” woman can ever look for humor in an exploding toilet of course.

Give me an exploding toilet over Bridget Jones’ Diary any day. The former at least makes me laugh. The latter makes me nauseous to see such pathetic lack of personal character.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:23 am cro:

I find it all pretty interesting. I’ve been happily married for 14 years… And there’s no way in hell I’d do it again.

It’s been good, but it hasn’t been worth the loss of all the things I wanted to achieve in life. Marriage is a hindrance.

Kids? Well I’d have loved that…but the wife had an abortion (she has parental baggage from being abused and abandoned as a kid - Had I known heh)

The whole economic view is spot on. Marriage has given me nothing that I could not have had single, and it has burdened me with so much that I would never have had to deal with if I had avoided marriage. The costs out-weigh the benefit.

Hell the thing that’s brought me the most joy in my life is my Dog!

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:25 am Bill:

I’m 46 years old, and never been married. Never really been interested, really. Not because I’m a perpetual adolescent, but because I’ve never met a woman that I’d really want to marry. A large part of that is that a large number of women go into a relationship with the belief that the man owes them something.

I know a lot of unmarried women in my age group. And almost to a one, they place all blame for their being unmarried on the men. Only one actually takes the effort to talk with men, and shows interest in them when they’re out together. Of course, she was married for 15 years. The interesting thing is that when she was married, she listened to all her female friends complain about men, and by proxy, she placed the blame on men. After her divorce, when she reentered the dating pool herself, she did a complete 180, and now she wonders why any man in his right mind would get involved with a woman these days. It makes things a lot harder for her, because guys are so used to women “having a chip on their shoulder” (her words), it takes them a while to realize and accept that she takes them seriously.

Since I’m not fat, ugly, stupid, broke/unemployed, or the like, my female friends have had to come up with all sorts of explanations for my unmarried state. They range from my being gay, to “afraid of women”, to “permanent adolescent” to “too picky” (yeah, it’s the guys who are too picky), to “selfish”. Like this article, those opinions were developed without any input from actual men. The only one to actually ask me was the divorcee, and she followed the question with “not that I blame you for not wanting to”.

Unfortunately, a majority of women these days seem to expect men to be walking wallets who will do their bidding, and resent the fact that they’re not walking up to the plate.

A large complaint men have is that women won’t take responsibility. Everything that goes wrong is his fault. Articles blaming men just reinforces the stereotype that these women are spoiled brats we’re better off without.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:30 am solarity:

At the risk of gross over-generalization, it strikes me as wise to consider the fundamental underlying truth in my grandmother’s oft-quoted philosophy regarding men, sex and the free market: “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:30 am Dave:

I can tell you why I’m divorced, which may explain why so many men don’t get married. “Bait and switch” is why.

Soon after I got married, my ex-wife packed on 40 pounds, decided sex wasn’t that important anymore, and determined that I didn’t make enough money for the lifestyle she wanted. After she put the weight on and I realized that my dream of starting my own business (stated clearly pre-marriage) wouldn’t be supported but actually undermined, I came to realize that I was a general all-around inconvience. If it wasn’t what she wanted to do, when she wanted to do it, what she wanted to buy, or how the house was supposed to look, it was a problem.

What’s in for me? Why would any woman think I would put up with that, especially from a woman I’m not having sex with. I find it bizarre that my ex-wife didn’t realize I’d have a problem with it.

For men, if you’re not going to be sexually satisfied, there’s no reason to be in a relationship. If you don’t want kids, there’s no reason to get married.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:31 am Suzanne:

I used to be a feminist. Not so much anymore. I’m ashamed of them.

The ongoing crop of American feminists, this is for you:

You’re reaping what you sow.

Unlax. Give men a break.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:32 am The Gaunt Man:

I think the answer for why men don’t marry is two-fold. Like Josh, I am in my early thirties, and married. I also found my ideal partner.

Part of what makes her ideal (and a partner) is that we talk. When there’s a problem, we discuss it, like rational adults. That’s the first flaw in the prospect of marriage today: with divorce being (relatively) quick and easy, especially for women, there’s a meme that says a marriage must be perfect. They’re not. Marriages are sometimes ugly, painful, and hard. Not surprising, as they are a subset of something called “Life”.

Second, as many here have mentioned, it seems to be “all risk, no reward” in many cases. I have known and dated many women in the past who wanted a man to treat them like a lady, treat them like an equal, open the door for them, pay them an equal wage, pay for dinner, respect their opinion, be politically correct, let them speak their mind, watch your language, have their cake and eat it too. When offered this deal, is it any surprise men would rather say, “no thank you”?

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:34 am Zooman:

I’m a 56 year old man who’s never married. Whew! Isn’t life grand? I’ve escaped a few close calls but managed to maintain my liberty. My advice to anyone who isn’t driven to reproduce … stay single. Going it alone is a treasure trove of adventure and self-fulfillment. I’m self-centered and couldn’t care less. What would you expect? I’m made in God’s image, you know (the Bible tells me so!).

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:35 am Jon D.:

I think the first four comments combined say it all.
I say this as a relatively happy married man with 2 little boys; but one with many friends and a brother who have often echoed the sentiments of the comments above.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:37 am Santiago:

I am a 21 year old male, definitely not married, though I want to be.

To be perfectly honest, the number of women who would make good wives - who are compatible in terms of their interests, their intelligence, etc., and who also doesn’t have a personality that might make them do bad things - be unfaithful, irrationally demanding, etc., is very low.

If you want to ask who is actually being in a land of immaturity these days, I would say to look at women. They are not taught to think rationally, to tackle problems forthright, to discuss things like adults.

Instead I see lots of “women” who float through life in a semi-conscious haze, who think avoiding thinking about their problems will make them go away, and who are incredibly passive-aggressive in their dealings with other humans.

I’m content to wait. The right girl will come along some time.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:38 am Ten:

Helen, as a single father who’s been through the divorce industry’s ringer for 12 years, and who still loves women, I can easily confirm Baskerville’s observations about the staggeringly unconstitutional family law problem. Marriage means vast personal risk, typically to men. I’m not going there ever again and I’m sure millions agree with and hold that decision themselves.

But I want to address the myths I’ve uncovered in those 12 years, a dozen years dating perhaps two dozen women.

1. The notion that women want emotional security is a myth. They want financial security and evidently by nearly any means. Emotional security these days is constituted of replacing the male protector with the State. Men are actually impediments to such “security”, hence the security of a male companion or life partner is destroyed. American women place no evident value on the emotional security of a true partner, per se. In fact, they reject and even destroy it when they find it.

2. Communication. Pursuant #1, a typical single woman has built a network of like-minded women and thus-emasculated single men. Communications are limited to vagaries, superficialities, and keeping up the luxury of State-assisted escapism. Men, as before, are girlfriends, and not equipped for classic male relationships of any duration. The myth of a need for communication is just that. The irony is that the more communicative a man is, the more he becomes a girlfriend.

3. The most disturbing myth is that of the desirable sensitive male, that again pursuant #1 and #2. Every single male friend I have confirms that women have far more need to be spoken down to or at than they do to be treated as an intellectual equal or emotional/spiritual peer. In fact, women consistently admit being attracted to abusive men, the Bad Boys they think excite them and give them access to alpha characteristics. The sensitive, compassionate, truthful male is obsolete. Women no more respect them than they can themselves.

Without question, the contemporary, liberated, American female is a quagmire of internal conflict, torn between the “excitement” of going it on her own against/with male curs because it excites her, and living with the knowledge that society and government policy offer her some degree of protection from them. She is by now her own self-fulfilling prophecy

She has accepted being taught that her animalistic sex-in-the-city core is all she is, and that higher level function such as spiritual love, permanence, fidelity, honor, and accountability are social impediments. The feminization of women themselves at the hands of feminism’s myths has stripped her of her self-worth, to replace it with the accouterments of political access and the myth of liberation.

While it’s painful to see that many of us (including in this thread) have likewise accepted the postmodern, feminized, secular-progressive myth that men need only sexual access, it’s far more painful to see how we’ve stripped the very soul from the American feminine experience. Contemporary women revel in their inner “goddesses”, even while believing they are no more than vehicles for petty thrills and social competition.

Why are American men staying single in droves? The answer is that there are no real single women left in this country in any quantity. Men die years earlier than women, especially when single, while women own billions of dollars more in personal property, partly as the result.

The final myth is that men need only sex and that women need companionship. Precisely the opposite is true — men greatly desire bona fide, classical female companionship and women do not desire true male companionship unless they can compete with it, having been sold that “progressive” bill of goods.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:39 am JFP:

I don’t know that there’s a difference here between men and women in not wanting to get married. The original article mentioned the “extended adolescence” of both men and women. Neither was willing to settle down right away. The author talked, in different articles, of what young men and women do with their time in their 20s and 30s. She suggests that men look less mature in what they do during this period than women do. That may be, but I don’t see that men are primarily to blame for lots of women not wanting to get married when they are young.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:39 am KBay:

Faith and love.

I’ve been married 20 years. When we married, he had debt, no assets, and was restarting school. I had 3 degrees, a professional career and a nice salary and wasn’t too keen on the idea of marriage. I married him on faith and love; he married me on love and faith. We believe in commitments. We’ve been severely tested. The Bible says that God stands as a witness between us, and we are not about to walk out on that. That’s what we are teaching our kids, too.

And we’re pretty happy with it. Call us old fashioned.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:39 am Troll King:

Didn’t Chesterton say 100 years ago that no rational man would get married? His point wasn’t that marriage is somehow a wrong thing to do. His point was similar Blaise Pascal’s statement that the heart has its reasons that reason knows nothing of.

The question, IMHO, isn’t so much “Why aren’t getting married?” It’s “Why are more men thinking with their heads rather than their hearts?”

I can’t say why that’s true in the general sense. I can only talk about my own experience as a 44-year-old never married male:

1. I wanted to marry my high school sweetheart. But she cheated on me, and then, when I got mad about that, she cheated on me again. Being a bit neurotic, I blamed myself and thought somehow I wasn’t man enough to keep her. When we split up, she met a new guy within three weeks. He was a carpenter, later became a successful General Contractor with his own business. He provided for her well. She paid him back, 16 years later — having an affair with her son’s ice hockey coach. Guess I wasn’t so much the problem after all.

2. I wanted to get married a few years later, but my live-in girlfriend slept with her ex-boyfriend one night and gave me the clap. When I came back from the doctor’s office, she denied it. For several days before finally admitting it. She even tried to turn it around and say I must have cheated, ignoring that I knew that I hadn’t. Obviously, I had no intention of marrying a woman who would lie to my face.

3. A few years later, I was talking about marriage with a third woman. She was a highly successful woman, but she believed that while men were fun to sleep with, a real emotional commitment could only be had among women. So she began a relationship with a woman, saying that she could have a “real” relationship that way. I laughed and said, “Men can’t be trusted, so you’re going to date a woman? Let me know how that works out for you.” Zip forward three years — her girlfriend cheated on her three times and dumped her for a fourth guy. In fairness to my former girlfriend, she called up later and apologized, saying she gets it.

4. I was planning to go to Africa in the Peace Corps. During the months leading up to my leaving date, I became involved in a relationship. I didn’t write her back enough while overseas, and when I returned, she didn’t want anything to do with me. It seems she was more committed to a relationship with me, than with me. That is, when I didn’t meet her “writing back” criteria, she dumped me overboard. The fact that there was a six-month postal strike overseas didn’t affect her.

5. I became involved with a woman. I was eager to get married. Practically every week, she gave me a reason to avoid the commitment. She ridiculed my religious faith and my intellectual pursuits, she put down men around me, she put me down around my friends, she poured out her attention on a pair of dogs, and cut me off sexually, saying I’d become (1) too fat, and (2) that if I wanted the milk, I should buy the cow. After we broke up, she began a series of blog posts in which she gave me a hard time (which meant that I’d occasionally go there and ask her to take down posts putting me down), and then posted graphic material about her current sex life, including comparisons between the new guy and me. At which point I wondered to myself — good thing I wasn’t the sucker who paid for that cow. Why overpay?

Anyway, this gives a good idea of why I’ve been reticent to make a commitment. Commitment follows reliability and trust. My guess is that more men are thinking with their heads rather than their hearts because more and more women are demonstrating signs of being unreliable and untrustworthy.

*****

Lastly, the quoted article is insulting. Men are sick of being lectured to and put down by women, especially given the arrogant assumption of moral superiority that’s so common.

My two cents.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:40 am RodgerS:

Where does the state of denial of my last two wives come from who seem to love defining themselves from on high and being in a perpetual state of “right?”

The Boss!
My first ex-wife decided that she was the decision-maker and could control her husband and the relationship. Being loving and attentive in preference to applying complaints and criticism was beyond imagination.

The Workaholic!
My second ex-wife characterized the book on the Care and Feeding of Husbands as the Care and Feeding of Children. Being loving and attentive in preference to applying complaints and criticism was beyond imagination.

The I Want a Committed Partner!
My current girlfriend/spiritual wife who is loving and attentive (and expects the same from me) doesn’t follow the first two rules of my first two adult and savy women, both of which my first two wives were, as evidenced by their claims of “knowing” me and the correct and appropriate ways of dealing with and having a relationship with me.

How many men are excited about having to get divorced from their so-called adult, savy wives? The probability of getting a divorce is at least 50% by the stats I saw and at this point 67% for me by my stats.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:40 am Robert:

I’m 54 and have been divorced twice, once when I was 27 and once when I was 47. I will NEVER submit myself to the civil court system again.

I’m in a long-term relationship right now. I expect that relationship to continue. I can’t imagine why I would invite any civil oversight of that relationship.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:44 am peter:

My son is ‘marrying age’, and I know many of his friends, and Dr Helen is right on point. They are fine young men, with no interest in getting married. The real problem seems to be SYW don’t know how to treat men well - like equals, but different.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:45 am Jason O:

I was married at 20 years of age and still a sophmore in college. 14 years and two children later I am still madly in love with my wife.

None of this happened by accident though. Our courtship lasted 4 years over a distance of 600 miles before the days of e-mails, cell-phones, and instant messengers. No sex either.

Women want this big commitment, but they expect it to be all about the man. When my wife and I were married, we were looking at a future, one that we could clearly see. It has had its ups and downs, but from the start we could actually envision a life together.

A woman who puts up with a man for years, services his sexual needs, and then continues to be in a relationship with him even though he shows no interest in marriage? The message she is sending the man is that he can have his cake and eat it to. I don’t blame the man here either, he’s got it pretty good and a woman who is perpetually waiting on that proposal obviously doesn’t think highly enough of herself to ditch him and find someone who will appreciate her.

Or maybe she’s not all what she thinks she is. Whatever.

The point is, I wouldn’t be with a woman who I couldn’t picture a long-term future with. Marriages end in divorce so often because people confuse sex with love or think they should do it because they’ve been together so long. Sex is sex and love is love and we really need to quit getting the two mixed up.

Maybe we do act like adolescents, but because the benefits of marriage are so low and women continue to put up with it and just complain we have no reason to change. I love my wife dearly, if she had come to me while we were dating and said she was tired of waiting for me to propose and she was thinking of ending the relationship I would have jumped into action. Some other girls I dated before her (granted, I was pretty young) I would have simply let them go. My wife is a blessing to me. Some of my other girlfriends, while fun, would have simply drug me down in the long term.

I may have been married most of my adult life, but even I can figure out why so many of my contemporaries are still single. I think I may be the exception that proves the rule.

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:48 am Dan Tana:

I’m a 45 year old unmarried man. I’m busy, love my work and make enough money to own a house, support myself and my dog.

I enjoy my life, have sex with women whom I enjoy on many levels and have no desire for kids.

Why should I get married?

Feb 7, 2008 - 7:58 am John M:

I married at 26 and have been married to that same woman for 21 years. We fought like cats and dogs in the early years and frankly I’m surprised we made it. I can look back and say I’ve been fortunate with my wife, but we had to work very hard to keep it together. Whoever said it was supposed to be easy? I have two young daughters whom I would like to see settle down someday and have a family of their own. Children make it all worth it I think. I don’t quite know how to process all this negative feedback about marraige. What do all these single guys think they’re going to be doing when they’re 47, when the time spent at the gym (assuming they still go) no longer leaves them “cut” but merely holds at bay the 2- 3 inches their waists want to expand, when the weekend football games leave them hobbling on Monday and they have become utterly invisible to 20 something girls? In my humble, and utterly non empirical opinion, most of these guys are probably going to deep down regret that they didn’t take the risk of grabbing one of those girls when they could.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:03 am Tony Ryan:

David Thompson,

How ironic that the feminist movement and the anti-male societal views of the last 20 years have helped doom western civilisation to fall into the hands of Islam.

Still, on the plus side, once we’re all subject to Sharia you’ll find that men will be back on board the marriage train and fathering kids by the bucketload whilst soaking up the welfare payments.

For men, the downside of sharia is that we’d have to grow a beard and pretend to pray 5 times a day. The upsides are enormous. As for Horowitz and her ilk, I’d suggest they’d be less than pleased with developments.

You reap what you sow….

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:11 am Big Boy:

I’m your classic strong, mature, monogamous male. At 22 I was a college graduate (smart), a military officer (responsible for other’s lives) and married (loveable). A good catch. I’m now a millionaire and still married (to the same woman, yet).

If my wife died, I wouldn’t remarry. The “modern-woman” hassle factor is too great.

Let me count just some of the ways;
1. I need an iron-clad prenup.
2. I’d have to change all of MY routines because older women aren’t malleable at all.
3. She wouldn’t like guns, fast cars, and deep-ocean sailing. And she would resent every minute I spent enjoying them. And every penny of MY money spent on them.
4. She’d want to be the point of interest in every activity. Hell, she’d insist on attending and whinning instead of doing something SHE wanted on her own.
5. She’d want me to kissy-kissy with her children/grandchildren.
6. It’s doubtful she’d carry on an intellectual conversation (and I don’t do “relationship talk”).
7. When the going gets tough (I get older, maybe ill), she’ll bail and try to break the prenup and win the Family Lotto.
8. She’d try to change me into her image of the perfect man/servant.
9. there’s more … .

I can hire a housekeeper. Set the washer. And operate the microwave.

Any product that’s more hassle than it’s worth, won’t sell.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:12 am jack-999:

I’m a 60-ish guy, and I don’t think I qualify as a ‘perpetual adolescent.’ I’ve been married twice; the first marriage lasted 27 years, and the second is approaching 15 years. And I’ve raised 5 children, who range in age from 40 years to 3 weeks (the latter being ‘unplanned’, to say the least!!)

But I am agonizing over what kind of advice to give my 13 year old son, in a few more years, regarding marriage. There is *no way* that I could advise him with a clear conscience to marry an American woman in the current legal climate. It’s suicidal — perhaps even literally.

A few years ago, I would have advised him to go find a third world girl (like his mother) and bring her home. But now, even that loophole has been closed, thanks to the latest Federal insanity (not sure, but I think it’s part of VAWA) that basically offers immigrant women free citizenship in return for fabricating fake ‘domestic violence’ accusations against their husbands.

Today, I think the best advice would probably be: Go to a third world country and marry a local girl and just plan on living there util your children are grown. When your kids get to be mid-teenagers, apply for US citizenship for them, and a Green Card for your wife; if the marrieage has lasted that long, you’re probably safe. And if not, you’re only looking at a few years of child support, rather than 21 years.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:14 am Tom:

I’m 38 and engaged to a single mother of a four-year old. I always thought I would marry by my late 20’s. However, I had a terrible break up after college with a woman who had cheated on me with numerous fraternity “brothers” of mine. I just sucked it up and moved on and never really dealt with the hurt and humiliation. By my mid-twenties I was sleeping around quite a bit. I’m a pretty good looking guy and it was easy. I kept this up until my mid-thirties.

Overall, while I enjoyed the sex and excitement of new partners while it was happening, it left me empty and ashamed. For the most part I became a user of women. A “Thanks for the sex, talk to you later.” type of guy.

Before I met my future wife I took a good hard look at myself and frankly, didn’t like what I saw. I wasn’t an honorable person. I was a predator. I was damaging myself and the women I used (or who used me) for sex. I was looking for intimacy through casual sex. It was disaster.

My future wife and I met on eHarmony. She’s smart, funny, good looking and strong. She left an abusive relationship and made a life for herself and her daughter long before she met me. She’s smart with money and makes huge sacrifices, without complaint, so that her daughter can go to ballet class, piano lessons, etc. One day she told me she had just mowed a neighbor’s lawn for twenty bucks. A few days later a pair of ballet slippers came in the mail for her daughter. She works hard, doesn’t complain. She knows she married the wrong guy. She knows she’s paying the price for that.

When we have problems we talk them out. We help each other and put each other first when possible. (a four year old’s needs come before mine…I learned that very quickly)

I make 150k+ per year. I have no debt whatsoever. Arguably, I could find a prettier, younger woman without a child and other baggage. However, we have a deal. We’re getting married and we’ll do what we need to do to make that happen and work through problems as they arise.

I’ve lived the “bachelor” lifestyle. Its over-rated. I’m looking forward to being a step parent and hopefully a parent. I’m looking forward to being a husband and sharing my life with her and vice versa.

Am I crazy? Nope. I realize I could lose my ass in this proposition. I’m taking a risk. Hopefully, it’ll be for the better. If not, there is no other woman I’ve ever met that I’ve even considered marrying. I totallly respect and trust her. If I can’t make it work with her then I’m just not supposed to be married. In that scenario, I pick myself up, dust myself off and move on -knowing I gave marriage my best shot with the most highly compatible person I could find after 38 years.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:15 am Helen Smith:

Hi all,

Thanks to everyone so far for the comments. I received this email from Kay Hymowitz and wanted to share it with you:

Hello Helen;

“Given the hundreds of messages I’ve gotten from men concerning my recent City Journal article, I wasn’t surprised to see your post. And I have to say, while I stand by my description of the child man culture and still believe that young women’s complaints about the guys out there are based on some truth, I made a mistake in not exploring the male view.

At any rate, my next piece will be about exactly that. (Your comments section will probably help me.) I knew some men were angry, but I didn’t understand the depth and extent of their rage. I don’t think many people do.
Best regards;
A Chastened Kay Hymowitz “

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:16 am ElvenPhoenix:

My brother is 33 and unmarried and likes it that way. He says that if he ever does get married she’ll “wind up with all my money”. He’s never even brought a girl home for any of our family events - Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter…my sister and I are both a little distressed by this as we would really like him to get married and have kids. She has two step-children and is unable to have any of her own, and my husband and I have six children between us. Although logically I can understand his position, surely SOMEWHERE out there is a woman who would be a good wife, as he’s a really great guy.

As to movies, well my husband prefers the romantic comedies and I like the action-adventure films. Give me James Bond or women in black leather (Underworld, Resident Evil). Action-Adventure films usually involve good people battling evil and winning. So if liking the action films makes one immature, I’m the immature one in our relationship. Geesh! Oh, and my husband is a doctor and musician who can fix anything with a huge collection of fishing poles. He’s also uber-prepared for any type of disaster that may strike us in our area. I am very blessed that he wanted me as his wife.

We have single male friends who choose to remain unmarried, usually after a hideous divorce and male friends who have remarried. One in particular is unhappy - his wife chooses to live in another county due to an ongoing custody dispute rather than joining her husband, as she originally agreed to do. And her jealousy is getting out of hand. I have to admit, if I were a man watching some of these things unfold I’d have very serious reservations about marriage.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:20 am Jack Olson:

Zooman, you said you were made in God’s image, according to the Bible. According to the same source, the same God said, “It is not good for man to be alone.”

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:20 am Greg:

Pardon me while I buck the trend and note that I see more than a grain of truth in Kay Hymowitz’s column.

While I disagree that enjoying the occasional video game or Michael Bay movie signifies perpetual adolescence (except perhaps in cases where obsession with those things trumps other responsibilities), my experience with other men is one that betrays many of the things that Hymowitz describes in the column– fear of responsibility, obsession with adolescent fantasies, etc.

A lot of the married men I know deeply want to be perpetual adolescents. They openly and repeatedly deride their wives to me (when their wives are safely out of earshot), they describe their own children as terrorists when they cry. They take every opportunity to spend time away from their families and “hang out with the guys” (Frankly, as a man who loves both my wife and my daugther, I’m a little sick of the constant company loyalty tests that drag me out to bars and restaurants at all hours while my wife waits for me with the baby)

These “men” told me every horror story in the book about marriage when I told them I was getting married (”Buy that motorcycle now, because once you’re married it’s all over”). They told me every horror story about parenthood when they found out we were expecting our first child (”Enjoy the pregnancy– it’s your last nine months of freedom as a couple”).

It’s not just the young guys either. An older married “man” who’s working on his first grandchild proudly told me that he had never changed a diaper in his life, in spite of having multiple children. Wow. Good for you! You managed to dodge part of fatherhood!

I can’t help but wonder why these men got married or had kids, since they obviously revile both their marriages and their progeny so much. But they are older than I am, so they come from a time when things were actually expected of them.

There are doubtless as many reasons why men stay single as there are men who stay single. But I think to pooh-pooh the obvious cultural trend toward the men-as-large-children-who-can-drink-and-buy-porn paradigm is just silly. I see it everywhere almost every day. Based on my admittedly anecdotal experience, the phenomenon that Hymowitz describes isn’t new, it just isn’t held in check anymore.

It’s not the video games, or the action movies, or even the smutty magazines. It’s the pursuit of those things at the expense of responsibilities classically associated with manhood that defines the adolescent.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:24 am pete the elder:

“Find me a sitcom where the husband isnt an overgrown adolescent on the receiving end of serial ‘life lessons’ from his spouse (or children!).”

That 70’s Show with Red Foreman and King of the Hill with Hank Hill. Both have very responsible men who are engaged in their children’s lives. But you are right that they are rare.

“Do you think today’s single young men are “child-men in the promised land,” or rational adults who are turning to video games and alternative lifestyles because those are more rewarding activities?”

Both. I got married at 24 six years ago, but saw it as primarily a spiritual commitment that I made with my wife to raise a family (we have one son so far and hope to have several more). Sex wasn’t an option before marraige for me and we went through premarital counseling through our church and had the support of our friends and families so there were rewards from our community when we got married. We also did the Family Life Today conference for premarried couples, which I have seen work great improvements in other marriages. And I still play video games, watch movies where stuff blows up, and hang out with my male friends doing guy stuff almost every week, but I do it in moderation. Work and family comes first.

That was the way I was raised, but was also a conscious choice as I had roommates and other peers who went the entertainment and no family route and I was advised by some older male coworkers not to get married.

Almost all of my male 20 and 30 something friends are like me and are happily married with some of them having up to 3 kids so far. But almost all of these males also attend church regularly and have wives that are good, mature, and responsible people.

The question comes down to what is marriage? If you believe that it is a spiritual commitment before God to raise a family together then it still makes sense to get married. Even though society may not honor my marriage, my extended family and church community does.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:25 am Jessica Troisi:

Lol- it sounds to me like you boys are getting pretty defensive over being called immature. Why can’t you all just accept your fate as the inferior gender? Stop debating the obvious and go do something useful with your testosterone saturated manliness.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:30 am RodgerS:

The ability to split up and go it alone for women has increased in our society. So-called adult women have found a “father” in the state. A husband provides access to that “father.”

Our society is very fast-paced and impatient these days. So our relationships have become entertainment focused to help us relieve the stress of both women and men attempting to “have it all.” Like a video tape, it is much easier and simple to rent than buy for both men and women. A bad rental tape is easily returned and a new one rented without delay. A good tape, having become boring, during the second screen OR curses…the thought of having to actually get to know the actors as real people is, well, just not fun.

The dating game is now expected…who will provide that “hot’ first date? Let’s meet and talk over coffee for a few hours for our first date is not an often appreciated thought.

Of course, everyone loves to be a victim, Who wants to be left out of the special benefits of being a member of politically correct victim classes? You made me do it, you did it to me, is also very self-fulfilling and it is great to be simply right in a world of complex nuances.

In business, relationship marketing and the rolodex, has given way to the quick sell. We can even order our hot date from the internet and the projections are that your next hot date will be found on myspace. Quicker than a bar and less risky compared to those time-eating personal interactions where I might have to deal with rejection from somebody who does know or care about me, but serves as a symbol of conquest anyway.

Communication is not needed, but performance is for us adults. Well, at least until you hit 50 or 60, then it becomes fun to talk again if you still can.

What is a man? These days men are the ones that survived financially and emotionally…and believe me those men who didn’t are in the shizzzz and manliness has become cheap talk. Those men do feel and are sensitive, after all.

Being financially stretched and only sleeping with the round heels eventually loses its entertainment value as you see your health insurance rise and listen to those broken vials scattered around you, both men and women…particularly those women who talk with pride about not needing sex, if they ever did, and enjoy their all-women complaints against men roundtables and those men that, well, are all talk and no go anymore.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:31 am Dan:

Helen, of all the benefits of marriage to men which have dissipated, probably the most important is sexual abundance within the marriage. The sexual pact at the core of marriage has always included two promises: exclusivity and abundance. For thousands of years, everyone understood that it is UNFAITHFUL for a wife to significantly curtail that abundance. Suddenly, in the space of two generations or so, the dominant culture and most women have forgotten this. She who messes with abundance messes with exclusivity, and lack of sexual abundance transforms marriage into marriage-lite. Marriage-lite is an inherently weak institution. Legal disincentives to men to enter it, as you’ve discussed, simply weaken it further.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:33 am KJohnson:

I have often wondered when it was that we decided that “civil oversight” as one commenter put it equalled “marriage.” Who decided that it was the government who decided who is and is not married. Personally, I believe that marriage is a sacrament before God. Others, I know, don’t share that. Still, for all of us the question remains. Marriage is about commitment and not just a commitment to stay together but a commitment to build a good and growing loving relationship with your spouse. I love and respect my husband and he does the same for me.

I also agree with the commenter who talked about how men are stereotyped on TV and treated as if their different interests are inferior rather than merely different.

When my husband and I were newly married we moved to a new town for his schooling and so didn’t know anyone there for awhile. He still mentions from time to time what a gift it was that I put in the effort to learn what football was about and understand it enough to enjoy watching it with him. Now, of course, he watches it more often with guy friends who still have more enthusiasm about the game than I do, but we still enjoy watching the occasional game together.

Why do some women feel they have the right to complain so much about their husbands watching sports but the husband has no right to complain about their chickflicks or decorating shows?

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:36 am jvon:

As someone going through a divorce after an 11 year marriage, I think I can offer some perspective on this.

During the marriage I spent years supporting my wife while she got her career established as a high school teacher. When she wanted a house, I bought one for us to live in, one closer to her job than our rental was.

As her position became more and more secure, she stopped doing things that one associates with a housewife — because she never considered herself one. I found myself cooking for myself, doing most of the housework (not half, most), and paying the entire mortgage (because men do that, I suppose).

One day she decided that this marriage thing was just too much work, and that she wanted a divorce.

Today I am in the process of selling the house I bought because she wanted it — and that I paid for and did all the work on — so that I can hand her half of everything I’ve earned while we were together.

The money she earned? Spent it as fast as it came in.

I’m not sure men are the irresponsible ones, but we are certainly getting a raw deal these days. It will take a lot to convince me to marry again.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:43 am Joe:

By the way: Some earlier poster asked at what point in history did marriage start to become a losing proposition for men.

You might want to try Googling ‘Greta Rideout.’

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:46 am emjones:

Speaking as a man in his mid-thirties, married with two great kids, I think that the only reason for a man to get married anymore is to have kids.

My generation had to deal with the explosion in divorce rates as baby boomers decided they had to have their freedom and the kids would have to bear the scars. Fast forward a decade or two and you have a generation of both young men and women who view marriage skeptically, and some who look down on the institution entirely.

Also, in today’s post Sex and the City feminist ideal, a lot of young women are acting more like gay men, than like young women of a generation ago. Its not surprising that egghead pseudo-intellectuals like Ms. Hymowitz are whining about why normal men aren’t also acting more like homosexual men. Except for the promiscuity, most men have little interest in emoting, shopping, fashion, ’serious drama’, etc.

In my opinion, no young man should even consider getting married unless he strongly feels like having children. Considering that more and more young women no longer want children either, it makes sense that the statistics show fewer and fewer males getting married.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:48 am Paul:

This is yet another in a, seemingly, endless stream of articles detailing the laundry list of men’s faults. Hardly, if ever, do we get to venture into the blasphemy of maybe discussing that the attitudes of women just might play a part in things. Do we ever hear of THEIR unrealistic expectations in a mate? What about their superior attitudes?

What man wants to hook up with a Paris Hilton wannabe?

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:49 am Zooman:

Jack Olson commented :
Zooman, you said you were made in God’s image, according to the Bible. According to the same source, the same God said, “It is not good for man to be alone.” Who said I was alone? My loins are fruitful but I’m not multiplying.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:49 am Silicon Valley Jim:

I’m, like one of the other posters, a perpetual adult. I was responsible enough to graduate from college before my twentieth birthday. When I finished graduate school, I moved back to my parents’ home - for two weeks (it was two thousand miles closer to my job than my graduate school was). I’ve been out on my own since then. I’ve saved money, shown up at work every day, and done all the things that one would normally associate with being an adult, except get married. I’m fifty-five years old, straight as can be, and single.

Why? I think that not only marriage, but virtually anything involving any sort of relationship with women, is stacked against me. At least a significant minority of American women of my generation really don’t like men. It shouldn’t be a surprise that I don’t want the company of people who don’t like me. The usual response from women when I say something like that is “you just want somebody subservient.” I don’t. I want somebody who is as nice to me as other men are. I don’t want somebody who will twist what I say to make it an insult. I don’t want somebody who wants to change me.

Kay Hymowitz, whose writing I have admired greatly in the past, writes “give young men a choice between serious drama on the one hand, and Victoria’s Secret models, battling cyborgs, exploding toilets, and the NFL on the other, and it’s the models, cyborgs, toilets, and football by a mile.” I’m certainly not a young man, but it’s not battling cyborgs and exploding toilets for me, and only rarely Victoria’s Secret models and football. It’s chamber music, the opera, and good books, and it’s been two of those since I was a young man; opera has come later in life.

Even in 2008, I have to be the one who asks for a date, more than 90% of the time. I’m the one who ends up even more often than I do the asking (perhaps I’m just foolish that way). What’s in it for me? Sex is far less important to me than it was twenty or more years ago, and it carries with it the risk of an accusation of date rape. Women, when I mention that, ask me about the pleasure of conversation and a woman’s company. It’s not a pleasure with me to talk with somebody who really doesn’t like men, and there’s pleasure in men’s company, with a whole lot less effort.

Kay Hymowitz is free to regard me as a perpetual adolescent, but I view myself as a mature man who’s decided that women, at least American women of my generation, aren’t worth the trouble.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:51 am Cmdr. Porkins:

28 and single. The biggest problem appears to me to be that women, having sought to eliminate the perceived evils of patriarchy, have almost wholesale rejected what have been termed the “manly” virtues. Things like loyalty, self-reliance, honor, integrity, and adventure. This is probably due to a misunderstanding of the universal human applicability of these ancient virtues.

But these are very real for most men, and we simply cannot respect or take seriously another human being who fails so miserably to be virtuous in almost any respect. Believe it or not, I think most men really do seek excellence in their mates, and find it terribly lacking. It seems that far too many women not only have no honor, they hate the very concept.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:51 am Brian:

There’s also that society isn’t doing jack to sell marriage to men.

It’s interesting to see that women still wish to get married. Yes, the desire for babies has a stronger biological component in women than it does in men, or so we’ve been told, but marriage is a desirable thing for women even before the biological clock starts ringing. Even as little girls, they are sold the idea that their wedding will be a watershed moment in their lives. Their entertainments are wrapped up in it, whether it’s the traditional fare of the Bronte sisters or the more modern pop and sizzle of “Sex in the City”.

Men, on the other hand, have no real corresponding push towards marriage. That wasn’t always the case. When my grandfathers married, it was pretty much considered all but an economic necessity and society dictated the roles of wives and husbands in the marriage. When my father got married, the times were changing. While the economic incentives were dwindling, it was still expected that you would get married, and as soon as possible around the completion of your schooling. The roles of husbands and wives might have required a bit more negotiation, but everyone had fairly clear ideas about what was expected of them. I remember, as a teenager, listening in shock to men of my father’s generation discuss marrying their second or third choices for a wife. Abstaining from marriage simply wasn’t done for most healthy, normal men of that time.

And now? I never felt any real compulsion to get married. I did, eventually, at 28 years of age, and found that my wife and I were pretty much on our on in terms of deciding what our marriage was about and how it would work. But at no point did I feel marriage was expected of me. Popular culture has little to say that might encourage men to choose marriage. Throw in the lack of economic or social incentives, and is it any wonder that men give it little serious thought? The negatives are immediately obvious to the most casual observer. The positives for the individual are more difficult to sell. Longer life? I can get that by not smoking, regular exercise, and eating right. Companionship? I already have good friends whom I see on a regular basis. Regular and frequent sex? Uh huh, right. Pull the other one.

Not only is it a tough sell, near as I can tell, nobody is making it. The churches gave up on that years ago. Positive role models are few and far between in popular culture. The only ones who seem to be making an effort are country music stars and female scolds. Neither are likely to convince the large majority of men, especially urban men, that marriage is something they should bother with.

It’s good to hear that Ms. Hymowitz is considering a follow-up article. I’ll be looking forward to reading it.

Feb 7, 2008 - 8:59 am Ten:

Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.

–Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets.

That line makes me wince. Because it’s so frequently true.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:00 am Jon Motherwell:

Let’s change the focus for a second from men to women. We are now about four decades into the “feminist movement,” whose leaders said that men are oppressors, that marriage is an oppressive institution, the the relation between husband and wife is like a slave relation, that ideals of love and romance are delusions that keep women from making money, having careers, and gaining power. And so for these many decades our laws and customs have changed to reflect this new ideology. Women have money, careers, education, and can even run for president. Yet many educated young women today are still standing around waiting for some man to pop the question, give her a big rock, and take care of her until she decides she wants to move on (with his money). Get real, ladies! It’s not going to happen. Most of the young women out there are never going to get married or have children because men have now lost interest in marriage, thanks to your older “sisters” who thought they could get ahead by declaring men the enemy. Ms Hymowitz is an outstanding writer, but she seems to have forgotten that we have had a revolution in morals and customs over forty years, and it was not made by men by by women. Instead of pointing fingers, it would be better if we just learned to live with our new situation and encourage women to forget about marriage and children.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:05 am Nancy Heil:

If I were a man with the feminists criticizing my every move (how about the outside work and remodelling many men do?) and easy women and the penalties of divorce, I wouldn’t marry either.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:08 am Uncle Ralph:

Mark Buehner wrote [Feb 7, 2008 06:41 AM]:

Find me a sitcom where the husband isn’t an overgrown adolescent on the receiving end of serial ‘life lessons’ from his spouse (or children!). From television to movies to commericals, men are portrayed as inept boobs…

I understand somebody has to be a foil in television, and since political correctness has ruled out women and basically everyone else the brunt falls on men. Fine, its just another cross men will silently bear…

It not just television ads, but virtually all media and marketing. Next time you watch a couple being interviewed by the news-media, note who does all the talking. Or after viewing or listening to an ad, do a mind exercise of “turn the tables” by swapping roles between genders or races. You might be surprised at how biased or bigoted the skit now seems. Or just mull over this post from the personal blog of someone in the marketing biz.

I submit it’s the way we are “wired” as a blend of the hunter yang and the gatherer yin. The former is disinclined to let feelings get in the way of facts, the latter is disinclined vice versa. In concert one complements the other, but once the household’s daily need to choose one brand of, say, breakfast cereal over another supersedes the need to fend off sabertooth tigers, bridge a stream, or fabricate (and use) tools, marketing distorts the concert.

(As SWLiP [Feb 7, 2008 05:36 AM] wrote: “The irony is that successive generations of male heroics have made the world safe enough that women no longer need heroes…”)

Grown-ups, both men and women, have it within them to distinguish between fact and feeling, between virtue and vanity, and between ideology and mythology. Boys and girls, less so.

Perpetual childhood is not exclusively a guy thing.

-30-

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:15 am DJ:

To steal a line from Ms. Steinem, ”I need a wife like a fish needs a bicycle.”

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:19 am Dienekes:

Somewhat to my surprise I married in my late 30s, have now been married for 30 plus years. My wife and I still had some growing up to do but on the whole it’s been good and we have two good kids to show for it which makes all the difference. My son and daughter in law are coming up on five years of marriage and are doing a pretty good job of it–possibly better than we did at that age.

That said, I would not take that gamble again, for the same cost/benefit reasons. The respect for women that I once had in my younger days is long gone–based on daily observations. That is probably grossly unfair to the occasional grown up, accomplished women–but they are pretty well extinct in my part of the world. Had the microwave oven been invented a few years earlier I might never have married at all. Sex is nice, but nobody ever died from lack of it. I’m sure that I could have consoled myself with a Corvette or Cessna 185 and been okay in the end.

In all fairness, my wife is a gem. Not anybody remotely typical, but she can live with who I am. and that can’t be easy.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:23 am Dark Helmet:

MSM has spent the last…… 40 some odd years tearing down the American Male. All with PC and guilt. Perhaps it’s time to realize that that there is no such thing as reverse discrimination.

I think I speak for many when I say it’s better to be comfortable and be alone than be made miserable by someone else at legal gun point.

Marriage is a commitment. When it doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t exist.

Why would anyone be surprised that the person you’ve been treating like crap for so long has finally said ” enough”.

It’s all been part of a bigger plan to destroy this nation from the inside by killing it’s greatest strength, the family.

If only people fought as hard for that core value as they have for gay marriage…..

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:26 am Mister Snitch!:

The reason the Billary campaign feels so secure in pushing its “if you don’t vote Clinton, you hate women” meme is because this kind of male-baiting carries with it little or no risk of backlash. This is the environment men live in, so it’s no surprise that men stay single in increasing numbers.

Of course, another reason is that Helen is already taken. Damn.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:27 am Jenny:

skymuse,

If you were a serious Dave Ramsey disciple, you would heed his advise when he says to never buy a house with someone you are not married to.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:28 am FOH:

Ennuipundit misstated something basic in his comment “If man can satisfy his sexual needs, while maintaining relationships that satisfy his need for fellowship and not sacrificing his individual freedom, then why marry.” The problem is not that aging boys can satisfy sexual needs so well as single guys, it is that they know that these days, whatever their lives are like unmarried, the sex stuff isn’t likely to be much better if they are, after a brief initial deceptive orgy. Read “Under the Blanket” (Google the book title, go read the blog) to see why this is a common issue.

There is fault on both sides- we all know many guys who don’t want to grow up, etc. But we also know many guys who are looking for the same kind of lifelong affection connection as women claim to be seeking. What causes those guys to hesitate is not horror stories about family law and property settlements, child support, etc., it is reading about or hearing from their married friends that they are as likely to (pardon the bald crudity, but the bluntness is necessary for the point) get laid as an apparently eligible man out there, as they are as a married man.

In other words, if you get married, you start with an expectation that there will be a sexual accommodation by the alleged love of your life to the reality of male sexuality. And that reality is the fact that men “feel like it” all the time, while the majority of women don’t- biochemically, the sexes are simply not the same because of testosterone.

If a wife (especially one with kids) believes that sex is only for when she feels like it or is “in the mood”- the most common attitude in the post-feminist era- I guarantee that her husband is wondering why he ever got married. He was about as likely to “score” on Saturday night at the country-western bar as he was at home, let alone a frequency actually half or a third as often as his testosterone was urging him to seek, which is coitus a couple of times a day.

I have been successfully married for a very long time- but certainly not as happily as I wish. If I were starting over, I would certainly get married again, but only after executing a pre-nup that specifically addressed the sexual issues in marriage. Compared with that, issues about how to handle money, kids, and all that stuff are meaningless.

Sex is the lubricating oil of the marriage relationship which, by its very nature of close quarters and constant exposures, is naturally frictive in a way that needs to be proactively handled. For a man, it is the foundation of his sense of the union. If the two of you touch each other a lot, and get naked together and rub bodies three times a week, regardless of what mood anyone is in to start with, you will communicate in other areas as well. If you don’t, take an honest inventory of the pairing- and I guarantee that you will find lots of other problems as well.

Without a specific and realistic understanding about this, I can’t say that I would ever advise a man to marry.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:34 am Mike:

for me, it has nothing to do with the cultural condition of marriage and everything to do with the available pool of mates. I would love to have an equal partner in life, it’s pretty much the only thing I REALLY want anymore.

Most of the girls I’ve come to know sought a man who will ‘fix’ them or ‘take care of’, etc.. But, even the ones who said they were not looking for those things couldn’t handle life on their own. They’d hit a bump in the road of life and just fall apart or freak out in their own bizarre way. They all needed a man to prop them up and keep them going.

This includes women you would expect to be independent; the really smart ones, the tomboys, and even the crazy dominatrix types.

Why would anyone want a woman who would, in essence, be a burden?

It’s depressing, but what can any of us do but keep looking and hoping; but ultimately, not finding?

I can’t even say I’m alone in this, my office is full of great but very single guys. There is a grand total of 2 married men.

The men are fine, it’s the ladies that need some work.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:35 am Cincinnatus:

I ever got married, I’d have a prenup that says if she cheats on me I can leave her with no money. I’m just reacting to the horror stories. I would be protecting the aggreved party, what the civil courts should be doing already… .

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:42 am Coaster:

Jack-999 Has it about right. I’m 45 and divorced now. First marriage lasted 14 years, second lasted 7. The first divorce, she decided she wanted to do something different, and at the time, we had no real assets, so we just split–no kids. The second, I had come into my own a bit, but married someone with no skills, and a low pay history, but, she also had kids (not with me), so it was fine that she didn’t work and took ccare of them–which she did well. Then, she must have decided that if she took half, she could have a decent lifestyle and total autonomy, so I got the word that I was not welcome in my own home. Long story short, after selling everything and spousal support, I watched about $300,000 go right down the drain. That does not include any child support, since her kids were not mine, I was not required to pay support, but the alimony was bumped up to cover some of that…

That was about 3 years ago. I’m fine now, doing better than ever. I honestly hope she is as well. The reason I’ve become comfortable with the idea of remaining single is, quite simpply, I don’t have enough lifespan left to re-make my life, should that happen again. I just can’t afford to drop half again, and hope to be able to recover again. It’s fine when you’re 19-25 and you both have nothing, and something goes wrong, so you split the debt and call it a day, but when you actually have something substantial to lose, and you’re only about 20 years out from retirement…it gives you pause.

Candidly, I’ve even gotten used to the celibacy. I’d like a relationship, but having been wrung through the legal system a bit, you realize your exposure. If I was just a dude with a car and an apartment, I’d not worry about it, but with a decent home and substantial investments…just can’t even think about hooking up with someone and having to face paternity with someone who had no intention of marriage-just receiving payments…or a sizeable settlement…

Or…let’s say you meet someone, date a few times, she comes to your home and likes what she sees. The date goes “very” well. Until later, when she decided, she really didn’t say “yes.” Then it takes all you have to recompense her “damages” and keep yourself out of prison–amazing how men always seem to lose those “he said,she said” cases.

Bottom line… I love women, love everything about them. I love sex. I want a committed lifelong relationship. At 45, I see that I now have everything I could want, and you can lose it so fast. If I was 25-30 with little to lose and time to do it all again, I’d take the chance, but at my age, when I would really love to share a wonderful life with someone–just not enough time to recover if it goes wrong, and 50% of the time, it does.

The upside would be, I have something that everyone should have. The downside, if it occurs, would be catastrophic. It’s a no brainer. It’s not about boys not growing up. It’s about grown up boys looking long and hard at what they they are about to do, and making the only sane choice.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:46 am loki:

25 and single, but I want to get married and have kids. From my perspective, the difficult part is finding a girl worthy of marriage.

I’m currently in graduate training for a career in medical research. I know that my career will be very demanding and take a great deal of my time. I also know that it will require significant travel and/or moving numerous times. While I don’t want a “subservient” spouse, I need someone who can deal with the stresses of my career. I want a partner who is committed, caring, independent (i.e. not requiring constant attention), and an overall good person.

I have dated dozens of girls, found 2 I considered marrying, and in retrospect know 0 would have been good partners (there are a few I’ve met who were already in committed relationships). For the majority these young women, I like to say they suffered from the “Sex and the City Syndrome”. They didn’t consider the future at all and only lived for the here-and-now. They laughed at the prospect of dating a poor student studying to become a doctor, and readily fell over themselves for bartenders and doormen who could get them into the hottest club (I was a bartender, hence my interactions). Not one considered the fact that in 10 years, the same types of men they were vying for would have new 22 year olds and they’d be cast aside.

It was astonishing they’d pass up building a stable relationship with the gent who would become a good provider in 10 years for the guy who could get them free drinks for the next month. If a guy didn’t have money, he was a bum. If a guy didn’t shower them with gifts, he didn’t care about them. If a guy didn’t tell them how wonderful they were and how much he loved them, he was emotionally immature. It seemed as if they were constantly looking for excuses as to why a guy wasn’t worth their time. None ever looked for a reason why he WAS worth their time.

By the same token, I witnessed the permanent adolescence Hymowitz discusses. Being a stable and upwardly mobile part of society had no value. If I told girls I was planning on going to medical/graduate school, I was met with a disinterested stare. If I told them I tended bar at a popular lounge, their eyes lit up. My peers recognized this as well, and many became a part of that culture. Why bother studying and building a future when you can play videogames and go to the beach all day, then party and have sex with new attractive girls every night?

It’s no surprise that we see so many adults who are immature. The difficult part just comes when these two fractions of society intermingle and both sides are left disappointed and unfulfilled.

I’ve digressed a bit and this has become more a rant against contemporary culture. But the salient point is that it is difficult (for me at least) to find a worthy mate. As the majority of the population takes on such a carefree lifestyle, it gets even harder. Why do so few men marry? Perhaps a better question would be to look at the dynamic of maturity in the male AND female population, and contemplate why any bother to marry.

Feb 7, 2008 - 9:50 am Sparky:

My WHEW moment.

I almost got married right out of college. She dumped me. That was in the early 70s.

Ran into the lady about 10 years later. Found out that she had gotten married and gotten divorced. Then she launched into the grand soliliqouy about how wonderful and successful she was, over and over and over. Every sentence started with “I”. There was this harsh, nasty tone in her voice. In all my life, I’d never heard anything like it. I was really stunned. She’d been a very nice, funny, young lady when we went out. Now, she was just horrible. She wasn’t even all that successful. She was a union public school teacher, where you can’t