Pajamas Media

113 Comments

Brian H:

Dr H, you should have told him, “If you think what they say about men is bad, you should hear what they say about each other!”

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:15 am gordo:

There is no question that in our society today men are often portrayed or described as simpleton’s, insensitive, worthless, ridiculous, etc.. But men don’t have to buy into that garbage. I found the best thing to do is to ignore the women who are doing the bashing. Guess what, that drives them crazy. And that tells you something right there.

But often these same women wonder why that can’t find a good man or maintain a good relationship. Payback is a bitch.

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:37 am richard:

Is life really like that for men in America? Here in England, the women in my life (wife, daughter, mother-in-law, friends and colleagues) never abuse me in this silly way. On the contrary I am treated with love or respect and in some cases both. I have done nothing special to earn this. Whatever happened to: “Do unto others as you would be done by.” ???

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:56 am Manley:

This guy reaps what he sows. Reading his letter, it appears he is a soft little liberal. The agenda he pushes, “I believe that for a very long time men have held up the world by both altruism and greed”, is what is responsible for getting him here. He complains, but he has bought into the same reasoning.

And of course, he is too much of a wuss to stand up for himself…”I don’t like this, so I don’t go visit, then they complain I don’t like them! Waah!” so he writes a letter whining to Dr. Helen, who tells him, “uh, use some common sense and stand up for yourself a little”. That’s some kind of an Oedipal complex, or at least a “I need approval from a mommy figure”. I wonder when someone will do a study on the damage crazy feminism is doing to the world. It has certainly screwed this guy up.

Hopefully if this man has any boy kids, he will be able to raise them into men, and not into the emasculated little approval seeker he has become.

Feb 21, 2008 - 4:45 am JS:

Hey Married Man, suck it up and learn how to ignore the stupid comments foisted upon us. Your acquiesence to the situation worries me. Stand up be a “man” and quit shirking your dignity and responsibilities. When any women in my life attempt such comments, either out right or concealed in context, they get a snide remark back, with a healthy dose of utter contempt. How can any group or people want “equality” and then make such comments. How two faced…and that is exactly what should not be tolerated, but is advanced in our secularly progressive, “diverse” society. If you are going to wimp out, at least have the guts and sense to admit it to yourself.

Feb 21, 2008 - 5:05 am Granddaddy Long Legs:

“Please try to consider my feelings and refrain from saying bad things about men because you are also saying them about me.”

Uh, right. Try saying that to your mother and next thing you know, everyone in the family will be talking behind your back about how overly sensitive or (gasp!) possibly gay you are. Then you’d be stuck not only defending your gender, but also your own self-confidence (read: manhood, if that’s not too P.C. to say).

Feb 21, 2008 - 5:36 am DWB:

Richard,

No, it is not like that for all men in America. But, it seems more prevalent (and ridiculous) than ever before.

Granddaddy LL,

I disagree. However, I too would have a hard not flexing my testosterone around women like that. But, when considering my own relationship(s) with my wife and mother (now deceased) I think it might be worth a try.

Women like that (described above) appear to reject “manliness” as it the source of their “troubles”. So, your suggestion to man up is defeating I think. Think of it like pulling back on a charging dog. They pull to resist. But, deflect them to the side and they disconnect.

I have a tendency to dismiss my wife’s concerns with various “man related” things around the home. As a result it creates a wedge between us. So, after I realize what I just did (and mellow out a little) I discuss with her my project plans and listen to her ideas. Whether it be construction foresight or something as simple as packing the car, she can’t see things like I can. But, she just wants to be considered. And she appreciates when I show her how sound my plan is. Win-win? It’s been helping me improve my relationship. YMMV.

So, the good doctor’s advice may yield some results where the manly routine will likely fail. The one reason I eluded to above is because we (men) need to try and communicate in a way we are not used to. Secondly, if what you are doing now isn’t working, why not try a different approach?

Maybe it is just easier to dismiss? You don’t seem to care to try. Why care if they call you “gay”?

I’ve decided to try different approaches from time to time. Life seems better.

Cheers.

Feb 21, 2008 - 6:31 am Nancy:

I agree that this guy sounds a bit self-pitying. Also I suspect that his female family members probably watch too much trashy TV…it’s all committed to the formula: RELIGIOUS FIGURES AND MALES=CHILDISH AND STUPID…religious figures who are male? downright retarded..and of course all women are portrayed as wise, authoritative and always in control of every situation..
I am a female who works exclusively with other females, I hear this silly sitcom nonsense laid on the opposite sex all the time…the smug superiority can be very hard to take and I sometimes respond…mostly I ignore them…I’m with Manley…I also had the same thought as granddaddy…better to just stay away from people who don’t bring anything positive to your life.

Feb 21, 2008 - 6:52 am Paul:

Is life really like that for men in America? Here in England, the women in my life (wife, daughter, mother-in-law, friends and colleagues) never abuse me in this silly way. On the contrary I am treated with love or respect and in some cases both. I have done nothing special to earn this. Whatever happened to: “Do unto others as you would be done by.” ???

——————————-

I would say that it is according to which generation of which you speak. It seems that the current generation of teens and twentysomething females have the princess complex; and, I don’t mean princess in a good way. They place themselves on a pedestal and seem to Paris Hilton as their model of behavior.

On a general note, the overall treatment of men is what turned me off of primetime television, especially the sitcoms, as I got tired of seeing the stereotypical idiot husband/father as the butt of abuse that was never leveled at June Cleaver or Lucy Ricardo during those “Dark Ages” of television.

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:09 am Dennis:

If I can never do anything right then your opinion is of no value to me. It is as simple as that. When you give control to others by allowing them to affect how you feel about yourself then you need to take the time to evaluate your own understanding of your self.
There are plenty of women out there who will love you for who you are to put up with those who are so insecure that they fear your “manliness.”
I like being a Man and love Women who like being women. There are great things to be.
I spend a lot of time around women what with a wife, daughters and grand daughters. I can only remember one time when I had to say anything. Since, at times, I am the only male in the house at a family gathering the women forget that I am there. One time they were just berating men as happens and I finally said, “I will remember that the next time you need my help.” That was the last time it ever happened and there is nothing I want for when we get together.
If you want respect you have to give it and also do those things that make it possible for you to earn it. I don’t waste my time or effort on those who are so insecure that they have to put down other people. They are bigots pure and simple.
and I am not afraid to tell them. You don’t respect my opinion then I have no reason to respect yours.

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:16 am Forrest:

My aging mother has spent a lifetime attacking men in front of me and my brother. She sat at our dinner table last week and launched into a tirade about a pregnant fourteen year old girl, and how unfair it was that the fourteen year old father was just able to walk away “scott free.” In her world, the girl was a hero, the boy a villain.

“So, you’re angry at a child for acting like a child?” I said. “Do you want him to quit school and get a job? Mybe be thrown in jail as a deadbeat dad?”

The whole thing was so contrived and apropos of nothing.

I grew up with this abuse from the time I can remember..

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:18 am Paul:

I have heard of women who constantly complained about their husbands who never do anything; it turns out that many of the do-nothings chose to be that way because, when they did do something, it was never right in the eyes of the wife.

Why knock oneself out for someone who is impossible to please?

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:33 am Helen Smith:

Grandaddy Longlegs,

I understand your concern but I think that DWB pointed out correctly that you have to learn a few new communication skills here. You have to talk in a language that many woman will relate to–you want her to stop the male bashing behavior. You do this by telling her that her behavior hurts–most mothers understand that it is not a good thing to hurt their kids–even grown men. If you “man up” by ignoring her, this adds fuel to the fire and she also has no idea of how she comes across and continues her behavior. True self confidence is the confidence not to care if people talk behind your back about your “manhood.” And really, if your own mother and family do this and use derogatory statements behind your back, then perhaps one does not need to be around them very much.

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:34 am sofasleeper:

I never saw these kinds of attitudes in the family in which I grew up. My parents had disagreements from time to time, and I can remember a few occasions where the discussion got heated, but these were deviations from a norm in which the two clearly liked, respected, and trusted each other. Likewise, my brother and sisters stood up for and supported each other all through school. I personally am borderline Aspberger’s (which was seen as extreme nerdiness as a kid) and my older sister was my biggest defender.

Of course, I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s. That’s a long time ago. But I still don’t see a lot of male bashing going on around me. Could be the nature of the community I’m in: Well-educated, relatively religious (though not dominated by any one denomination) and somewhat conservative.

On the other hand, my own marriage has not been remarkably successful. My wife was the only daughter of an only daughter of an only daughter in families that had several sons, and some of those families were pretty sexist by today’s standards. This seems to have spawned a kind of meme handed down from mother to daughter that men are jerks. It’s not spoken verbally but it’s projected in more of a passive-aggressive way.

My wife speaks well of her brothers, but it’s odd that one of them lives fifteen minutes away yet we haven’t visited each other more than three or four times in five years.

So how do these women ever end up getting married? All I can figure is that a combination of hormones and unfamiliarity allow these women to look at a marriage prospect and tell themselves, “He’s not like all those other men.” When they discover that, yes, he’s pretty much like other men, the nagging, the cold shoulder, the guilt trips, the sleeping on the couch, and so on kick in.

My only daughter is now in her early teens. She has become astonishingly rude to me and her brothers (though she doesn’t express it in explicitly anti-male terms) yet she is crazy about boys at school who are not what I would call the pick of the litter.

You must forgive me for hoping she never marries.

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:39 am Nancy:

Forrest, you sound like some of these women I work with, claiming victim status…if I considered someone’s behavior toward me abusive..my mother, whoever..I would simply not put myself in a defensive position…if she wants to “abuse” me at her dinner table, then guess what, she will have an empty chair at that table…

It took me many years of struggling my way out of a horrible marriage to figure this out…I feel better about myself than ever, and not at all like a victim..

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:42 am Bugs:

There’s a perfectly reasonable explanation for this behavior on the part of some women: the cooties have sucked out their brains.

I think Dr. Helen’s advice is useful. In a man’s case, at least, a lot depends on delivery and follow-up. If you can convince them that you’re serious - but not too serious - and that failure to comply with your request will have consequences, you may be able to change women’s behavior. I would say don’t make it appear as a “men’s rights” issue; most people have been educated to believe only women need to stand up for their rights. When a man does it, it confuses them.

In the end, it’s all just human rights.

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:46 am Nicodemus:

“Taken aback, I loudly said across the restaurant, “What do you mean, we don’t need ANY MORE MEN in the world? What an ugly sexist thing to say!”"

Thank you, Dr. Helen, for doing that. Unfortunately, we men can’t defend ourselves in this way. If a male voice were to be raised in a public place to say those words, the man would be labeled a threatening bully. He would immediately be ejected from the restaurant and possibly arrested.

Like Lionel Ritchie, we know that we are not permitted to offer any defense. So when we hear this sort of casual anti-male bigotry, we have to bite our tongues, remain in our seats, and hope that somewhere in the room is an exceptional woman like you, who will stand up and speak out on our behalf.

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:51 am sofa king:

When every attempt is met with criticism and vituperation; when every good-faith act is greeted with extreme bad faith; when every demonstration of conciliation is countered with retaliation, the logical, rational thing to do is to stop wasting effort and stop trying.

Atlas is shrugging.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:09 am gk:

I suppose I see this “male bashing”in the media & advertising as just more of the rivalry between the two sexes. But it requires some sort of buy in from the males of the planet that I just don’t see happening. (Except for the very sensitive types) Come on, strap on a pair and leave that toilet seat up!

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:13 am Ron Hardin:

What a whiner.

It just rolls off most guys.

It’s natural to send guys on quests. Something is wrong or is needed, and they’re sent off to fix it to get it.

Then the woman shows the guy she’s satisfied with him.

That rewards his going forth on the quest, and can be repeated forever.

If the woman doesn’t show she’s satisfied with him once in a while, then it’s nagging.

That’s the point of failure, not the point that’s alluded to.

Feminism is formalized nagging : sending all men forth - something’s wrong and you have to change to fix it - but never rewarding them. You can’t reward an abstract man.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:16 am Tantor:

Another response to male-bashing is to simply leave. You might make it explicit by politely saying, “I’ll leave you ladies to your man-bashing.” Go find better company and have a good time. A woman who appreciates men is an excellent destination in this case. Women are competitive creatures. When they discover that their behavior drives men away, they will strive to behave like the women who attract men.

Women are convinced, despite all contrary evidence, that they are masters of relationships. They often tell men of their superior relationship skills while simultaneously telling them what idiots they are. A little more self-awareness is in order.

Man-bashing is a theme that has caught on throughout America. It’s one of the reasons why I stopped watching the network sitcoms. They lost my interest when they stopped trying to entertain and started becoming vehicles of political indoctrination. After a while, you couldn’t help but notice that the men were too dumb to tie their own shoes or overdosing on testosterone to the point of endangering society. I suppose that’s why so many men find refuge in the History Channel, which is largely about men saving society.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:20 am Ginny:

The male/female tension is old. I have never gotten along with my mother-in-law, despite the fact that she is a remarkable, tough woman; she has practically raised my kids and raised a son with whom I can share an intellectual life and who has always been the rock in our household.

I suspect if she’d ever supported herself (her husband died when she was in her mid-forties) she would not have been the supportive grandmother she is but she would not have had this attitude that somehow men are beasts but that her son should be at her beck and call every hour of the day. She would be less condescending toward men and more self-sufficient and sure of herself.

She, of course, etests “feminism” but feminists modeled their behavior on women who patronized men, overpoweringly babied them (my husband isn’t far from retirement but he eats lunch every day with her and if he can’t she expects to fix his lunch - she is almost 90 and blind), and seldom took personal responsibility - that was always a man’s job.

Of course, some of her attitude is colored by the fact that her father - by about every objective standard of others as well as his children - was a real bastard. Sometimes we pay for the sins of generations before.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:22 am leishman:

Defending “All Men” as a method of defending oneself is shoveling sand against the tide. The same is true for any group–women, Muslims, black folks. To hear, “Well, YOU’re different from all of Them” is little solace. And to hear, “You can’t help it, because you’re a …(insert group)”, one can only respond, “I feel fortunate to no longer be in the place you seem to be with comments like that.” I’m pretty much with Dennis (07:16) on this.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:26 am Karen:

To answer the question your headline asks, yes, male bashing can be cured. I used to consider myself a Feminist and was a big-time male-basher. I said hateful things in front of my brother and father.

Nowadays, I am a stay-at-home, homeschooling mom of an only son who adores the male qualities I find in my husband (and brother and father) and hope to nurture in my son. We are HUGE into Scouts because I feel it is so vital for my son to have a place where he can be a boy and where male values are, you know, valued! Also, in keeping with that, we watch very little tv.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:36 am John B:

I follow the philosophy of John Galt, the main character in Ayn Rand’s book Atlas Shrugged. I’ll accept no guilt but my own. I’m not burdened by responsibility for things others may or may not have done. What women choose to believe about me or other men is their burden to carry, not mine.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:39 am RodgerS:

Speaking for myself, as a man, but also for my male and female friends…Life is down right tough and unfair for all us humans, both men and women.

My attitude is that it is best I simply take responsibility for my thoughts, words, and actions and get on with it. I surround myself with those people who like me for myself and tend to be a lot less concerned and worried these days about someone taking offense for what I said or did, particularly if no offense by me was meant.

I surround myself with people who are successful like myself and going forward/making things happens. I don’t have the time to focus, particularly with respect to strangers, on those crying in their beer or claiming victimhood.

I have a job to do as a man, as I see it, and I get on with it. Yep, I have a few slabs of concrete (my failures) I am draggin behind me, but I refuse to drag anyone else’s slab or fix it for them.

I have a girlfriend that is really great. I know several other beer crying ladies and men that, well, will simply order another beer to cry in tomorrow.

When I turned 55, I decided it was time to be a feisty grumpy old fart, and I haven’t looked back. Let the young guys run down the hill, I’ll walk.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:43 am Marc:

This seems like a multitude of issues that have come to stern: For hundreds, nay thousands of years, men were the dominant sex. Now, we find ourselves responding to the recent backlash. Women’s suffrage and equal rights are good things, don’t get me wrong. However, I think we, as American’s, went about it the wrong way. Equality, to me, means dignifying the work you do, not necessarily to being able to do the work of others. For instance, taking care of house has been laid aside for the quest of the corporate or professional life. What about giving credit for all that work that was done at home? I fondly remember my mother taking pride in having a clean house, a well fed family, and time spent rearing her children. “Married Man” mentioned greed. I would agree that we have been greedy. Greedy for bigger houses for all our crap, fancier cars to keep up with the Jones’s, and a boat or some other extraneous expense in the driveway. All this at the cost of time spent with family, or in the neighborhood, or whatever we’ve sacrificed for our “professional” careers. I think we have come to reap, what we’ve sown. The pursuit of the “thing” or “title” has given us a society that does not respect the things that were previously taught in the home. Our schools, or nannies, or electronic media teach our kids (and probably generation X & Y) how to behave, or not behave. Lack of respect, generally speaking, is what we’re talking about here. Men are just starting to notice it, and we’re ticked. The real question is, what would you give up for respect?

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:48 am RodgerS:

Nicodemus :

Thank you, Dr. Helen…Unfortunately, we men can’t defend ourselves in this way.

=======

There are other ways, Nicodemus, to handle this without your having to play at being Dr. Helen…

I would have replied in my normal tone of voice, “Well, obviously you don’t want your tip!” And of course, I would be considered a real bas…d, but that would be my way to handle it.

On the other hand, I would then get up and leave as I won’t take the chance of eating someone else’s whatever they add to the plate.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:56 am Mister Snitch!:

I was thinking the other day that men contribute to the problem between the sexes by treating their women (wife, girlfriend, whatever) the same way we treat men. That is: We often compete with them, try to leverage or take advantage of them, or even cheat them.

In response, probably out of self-defense, women have learned to also behave like men, treating them in like fashion. This of course raises the bar, and that bar keeps us apart.

If you watch “The Benny Goodman Story” or “Strategic Air Command” (I love TCM), you’ll see a male/female relationship played out without that kind of baggage on either side. It’s quite a remarkable thing to see played out.

I agree that if a man complains about a woman’s behavior, he’ll get garbage from PC-types. It’s a no-win situation. However, it is worth exploring the problems male/female relationships face without the customary male-bashing that’s so popular these days, if we are ever to understand ourselves and work out something more satisfactory. Obviously, the current state of affairs has resulted in men refusing to marry (or in some cases, have ANY relationships with women). That doesn’t mean they’re ‘losers’ (though I suppose some ‘losers’ have always taken that path), but it does mean something’s wrong in our approach.

If you watch any film from about the mid-seventies to the nineties involving male/female relationships, it is nearly always the man who is at fault. The man who expresses an interest in sex is always a pervert. Women want to be “loved for their mind”, though it is (hypocritically) acceptable to love a man for his ability to procure.

In fact, this modern PC concept of “loving a woman for her mind” really shows just how far off base women have wandered - and how lost men have become in dutifully accepting that ridiculous notion. A man who says he “loves a woman for her mind” (for what? Her Harvard degree? Her ability to add large columns of numbers in her head? The speed with which she reads Ulysses?) is either duplicitous or insane. A man either loves a woman’s heart, or not at all.

And, by the way, vice-versa.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:59 am Mylai:

Why would this article be coupled with a photograph of a man like that if not to punctuate WHY men SHOULD be bashed. Clearly this does no justice to what the article is trying to achieve.

Obviously, someone is talking out the side of their mouth.

I would think a nicely dressed, nicely mannered, attractive, virile looking male photograph would have been more appropriate.

And what’s with these articles anyway?

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:59 am Crafty Hunter:

I have been reading the occasional column by Ms. Smith with interest. At the risk of offering unintended insult, I will say that at first I thought that Mr. Reynolds was pushing his wife’s columns out of sheer nepotism, but after the first one or two columns, it became apparent that Ms. Smith has what I suspect to be a first-class mind, and an obviously cogent style of expression.

At any rate, after reading this thread, it occurs that a man might respond to such sexist crap as what was uttered by the knocked-up waitress by politely repeating (rephrased slightly) what she said, with a raised eyebrow, more than a hint of disbelief and an implied question as to whether she really meant it. The waitress might have the grace to be ashamed at realising what she had just said. If he wanted to make the point more forcefully, he could actually and explicitly ask whether she preferred that men leave the restaurant as unwanted excess.

I will add thanks to Ms. Smith for having hosted such illuminating columns and subsequent threads on the perils of marriage in modern American society. I now am determined to exercise extreme caution about marriage, explicitly refusing to accept such an arrangement without an ironclad prenuptial agreement and perhaps, finances permitting, a shared apartment or home aside from primary or secondary residences to ameliorate the consequences of a maddened bitch (that had slipped past screening) suddenly levelling false accusations of abuse as a potent revenge mechanism (think the loss of home, of guns and other fundamental rights). The prenuptial agreement in particular makes matters difficult, but a real man may very well be utterly unwilling to accept the mere risk of such abusive and frightening tactics, even if it means losing an otherwise attractive prospect.

In all of this, there is of course the ever present awareness that very many women apparently are terminally poisoned by often buried anti-male resentment, and that it will be wise, notwithstanding the obvious attraction (men particularly know exactly what I mean, but I prefer to be a gentleman about it), to be ready to abruptly walk away from a relationship that appears headed for physical violence or other abusive behavior (such as emotional abuse, which can be vicious indeed). It’s just not worth it.

I do realise that this last is rather more easily said than done, but a rational man will force himself regardless to see clearly how terribly the legal system screws over men at the slightest hint of problems. Until this is changed, drastically, a rational man will, with deep reluctance at this perversion of justice and gentility, behave as if he were living in a virtual bunker, besieged by fair-faced enemies.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:01 am Mart:

Hey buddy, just tell a good joke at that abusive dinner table:

Why was Helen Keller such a bad driver?

She was a woman.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:07 am Jimmy:

To what extent does single motherhood factor into this?

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:09 am Jacknut:

As a real man, I just don’t pay attention to anything other than the game.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:12 am wGraves:

That ‘male bashing’ is tolerated by society is a reflection of institutional prejudice, now quite a common fact. If you doubt this, have a look at the data on, say, the sexual differentiation in college matriculation rates, or that of Ritalin prescription rates in grade school. These statistics arise from a prejudicial environment in society, which is most obvious in the public school system. Of course, you could argue that, on the average, men are just a lot dumber than women. But that would fail to explain why, historically, most scientific progress is due to men, wouldn’t it.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:26 am Don't do it:

Next time she starts saying derogatory things about you or other men, say politely, “Mom, it really hurts me when you say things like that about men. You may not be aware of how you are coming across but I feel like you don’t like me when you say that ‘all men are (fill in the blank).’ Please try to consider my feelings and refrain from saying bad things about men because you are also saying them about me. I know that you care about me and don’t want to hurt me that way.” With any luck, your mother will look upset or concerned and try to bite her tongue in the future.

It’ll never happen. The reason why is simple: women (and self-hating men) feel self righteous about their misandry. And when someone feels self righteous about their sense of superiority/victimhood, they see nothing wrong with any acting on it. Just ask that Hitler dude.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:27 am EntropyIncreases:

I think that the Married Man’s issues, while important and enlightening, are far more relevant when applied to the culture in which we are raising our kids, male and female. Those formative years can provide sexual identity stability in which someone identifies and challenges sexism.

With the pervasiveness of the sexist attitudes affecting our childrearing practices as well-meaning dementors try to raise boys into men who are not barbarians, we face a crisis in our schools and other child-rearing institutions.

That boys’ increasing marginalization and academic failure is being blamed on the boys and not on the society is a sign that societal change is needed. Our boys are being hurt when differences are minimized as a misguided side-effect of the worthy goal of gender equality, and stereotypical traits of boys are weighed and found wanting.

But society first has to identify and accept that it is a bug and not a feature.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:40 am Don't do it:

I can see from some of the comments that we have some knuckleheads who haven’t figured out that chivalry has been turned into a feminazi weapon, and is used to keep these linguine-spined males (note I didn’t say “men”) in their place.

Note to self-hating males: please hate yourself if you wish, but keep your collective hatred to yourself.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:41 am Helen Smith:

Nicodemus,

You make a good point. I do realize that I can “get away with” raising my voice in an angry manner because I am a woman and no one will say much back to me. I use that to make my points at times. If I were male, I would probably take more of RodgerS’s advice above and say something about the tip. Both of these strategies are a type of conditioning that may cause the waitress to reconsider her position on men, or at least get her to stop the negativity in front of children (my daughter) etc.

Another reason I am particularly sensitive to this type of behavior is because of the thousands of men and boys that I have seen in my practice over the years–I understand how negative stereotypes of boys affect them much more than people realize and the consequences of that negativity. It is easy to laugh off male bashing and negative stereotypes of men as unimportant or something to ignore but young boys are listening and picking up on what is being said. I wonder how this negativity will play out in subsequent generations?

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:42 am Don't do it:

Let me correct one mistaken notion that several seem to have: yes, rivalry between the sexes is old. But, the media-driven double standard is new. If this particular individual has a problem with his mother, there are several elements to it, and the one element that concerns us all is the social permission that the popular culture has given her through the media. This is a societal issue, not an individual issue. His mother obviously has other issues, as well.

Let’s focus on the kingpin issue here: misandry is “ok”, because the media/pop culture complex says it’s “ok”. This needs to be resisted collectively and individually. Everything else is individual, but the overarching social issue is this cultural pollution.

Or do these stoics think it’s fine to use the “N” word, because it’s just words?

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:59 am Johan Amedeus Metesky:

On a general note, the overall treatment of men is what turned me off of primetime television, especially the sitcoms, as I got tired of seeing the stereotypical idiot husband/father as the butt of abuse that was never leveled at June Cleaver or Lucy Ricardo during those “Dark Ages” of television.

Actually, though she is revered by other comics, Lucille Ball’s comedy which is based around laughing at Lucy would never fly today. With all the sitcoms out there today can you think of one that even comes close to making a female character look as silly as Ball on I Love Lucy?

The irony is that while she played a traditional housewife as a screwball, she was a pioneering woman in terms of successfully owning and running a business. Desilu was a powerhouse in the 1960s, producing some of the biggest hit sitcoms of the era.

A couple of years ago one of the beer companies ran a Super Bowl ad (rarely seen since) where the concept was two play by play announcers at a football game commenting on the amount of verbal abuse from a coach that the referee was taking without reacting. “How does he stand that abuse?” they ask. And the scene cuts to the ref’s kitchen where his wife is screaming and raging at him.

When the Wall Street Journal did a follow up story on Super Bowl ads that year a marketing professor (female) at Eastern Michigan reacted very negatively to that ad and how it showed women in a bad light.

It seems that beer companies can make fun of men and men will still buy their beer (if it’s good beer), whereas if a merchant offends women, they will never buy their product, regardless of the product’s merit.

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:13 am Johan Amedeus Metesky:

Here’s the Bud ad I mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO-E2T1hayU

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:15 am Grace:

I am a senior woman with 2 grown sons. There was never any male bashing in my home, as I was outnumbered and realized that boys need their father in order to become men, so i took a backseat in much of the upbringing esp. when it came to sports,discipline, etc. My husband was very active in their affairs and made final decisions in the house. I receive many male bashing E-mails from women, and i respond that I do not approve of this, I still like men and their company and their maleness.Unfortunately i notice a feminization in males over the past 10 to 20 years. Is it possible that the estrogens in chicken and meat have something to do with this? I wonder about this because men have changed.Since women have become financially independent, there is much more divorce and fatherless homes. Young girls and boys are begging to have a strong male presence in the house even if there is the usual bickering. I’ll end this with levity,,,the biggest problem, the seat was always up and one night i did fall in, but no one was bashed, this is the male way and while I said something, they were all more considerate of my femaleness.Oddly, most of the calls i get from them now, are usually because one does not feel well and my opinion is useful as i am a retired RN, otherwise the bonding with their dad is very strong, and my sons are very male even with very strong wives.My grandson is being raised this way, and he thinks he is one of the “guys”..he is 10.

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:18 am Don't do it:

And lest ye think that this is trivial, and without practical consequence, this is what awaits all of us at the end of this road:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blackmen.html

The Black men are just a little further down this road than the rest of us. This is what you get when you break a group’s collective and individual spirits.

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:19 am Johan Amedeus Metesky:

Correction. It was an EMU grad student

“Another Budweiser spot created by Omnicom’s DDB Chicago featured a football referee learning how to handle his stressful job-by enduring a tongue-lashing from his nagging wife. “It was great and funny,” said Sammy Schell, a mailman in Brooklyn NY. “I can relate to it because I tune my wife out too.” Still, the stereotype didn’t sit well with some women. “The ad really portrayed couples and women, in particular, in a bad way,” said Veronica Jamieson, graduate student at Eastern Michigan University.”

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:TAWRXDIZMPcJ:online.wsj.com/documents/retro_superbowl04.html+%22super+bowl%22+commercial+referee+wife+%22eastern+michigan%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:21 am Paul Atreides:

With all the sitcoms out there today can you think of one that even comes close to making a female character look as silly as Ball on I Love Lucy?

————————

I remember seeing an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond (a show I cannot stand anymore) in which Ray’s wife, in order to stop him from saying something inappropriate, hits him in the groin. Imagine the situation in reverse, and he slaps her to stop her from saying something inappropriate (I know, it’s a stretch seeing a woman portrayed as something less than an omnipotent goddess). The series would have had to do a whole six months to a year of apologies, therapy sessions, and public service announcements. When did we reach the point in society in which hitting/kicking a man’s testicles is considered funny?

For the record, the bickering of all the characters turned me off of the show, as well; watching dysfunction is okay every now and then (Eunice, Ed, and Mama on the Carol Burnett Show is a prime example), but not on a weekly/daily basis.

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:46 am cfbleachers:

“Another reason I am particularly sensitive to this type of behavior is because of the thousands of men and boys that I have seen in my practice over the years–I understand how negative stereotypes of boys affect them much more than people realize and the consequences of that negativity.”

We are bombarded with these messages on a daily basis in pop culture, sitcoms, magazines, because the purveyors of the “truth” in our society have owned and controlled most of the communication vehicles until …well, bloggers…have only recently started calling them on it.

Genderism and other lies were (and still are) de rigeur, and loaded with irony in their naked hypocrisy.

The slings and arrows are safely aimed at men, because in the echo chamber mindset of those who have “owned” the truth since the 60’s…they are a “safe” target.

The danger in this mindset is not the silly pretext or even its ugly result, but that it becomes axiomatic to the dogma soldiers whose daybed is snugly tucked in the echo chamber. Those who are taken aback are “out of touch” with “the Truth”…now, with a capital “T”.

So, not only are you “too sensitive”, but you are also too dense or not “nuanced” enough to be part of the conversation if you don’t blindly accept the put down.

You can apply this principle across the board in movies, TV, most national magazines, large city newspapers.

If this is a poison, it bombards our little girls as well as our boys. The answer, is to stand up and take back the truth, one blogging post at a time.

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:52 am Ennis:

it won’t stop until the people who indoctrinate our kids from a young age are stopped.

You have to get rid of the “progressive”/”liberal” mindset and policies in the schools. That will take you getting off your duffs and force the school districts to change their policies. You will also have to force out the teachers unions who make sure their “progressive”/”liberal” indoctrination agendas stay in place. You have to hold them accountable for their actions. Too many do not vote in school board elections-start doing so. A shortcut to this is to home school your kids.

You have to quit rewarding the entertainment industry for spewing forth their male bashing shite by buying their products. Cancel your cable/sat tv subscriptions and tell them why you are doing so. There are thousands of movies/TV series on DVD, buy ones that are not full of the “progressive”/”liberal” BS.

Finally you have to shut down any “progressive”/”liberal” male basher in your presence. Tell them that their “progressive”/”liberal” BS is sexist and walk away from them. This includes any “progressive”/”liberal” ’s in your family.

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:57 am mishu:

It’s funny. As I was reading this, I just got one of those joke emails from my sister-in-law:

9 WORDS WOMEN USE

(1) Fine: This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.

(2) Five Minutes: If she is getting dressed, this means a half an hour. Five minutes is only five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes to watch the game before helping around the house.

(3) Nothing: This is the calm before the storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine.

(4) Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don’t Do It!

(5) Loud Sigh: This is actually not a word, but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning of nothing.)

(6) That’s Okay: This is one of the most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. That’s okay means she wants to think long and hard before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake.

(7) Thanks: A woman is thanking you, do not question, or Faint. Just say you’re welcome. (I want to add in a clause here - This is true, unless she says ‘Thanks a lot’ - that is PURE sarcasm and she is not thanking you at all. DO NOT say ‘you’re welcome’ … that will bring on a ‘whatever’).

(8) Whatever: Is a women’s way of saying F*cK YOU!

(9) Don’t worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking ‘What’s wrong?’ For the woman’s response refer to # 3.

I realize this is all in jest but at the same time, it has an element of truth. If women honestly think they can get away with this sort of communication, they might as well go to the pet shelter and pick up a few cats.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:06 am Tom Holsinger:

Dr. Helen,

IMO boys whose mothers male-bash in their presence tend to grow up as males who view women as objects. This minimizes male emotional risk.

“It is easy to laugh off male bashing and negative stereotypes of men as unimportant or something to ignore but young boys are listening and picking up on what is being said. I wonder how this negativity will play out in subsequent generations?”

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:08 am Asher:

My mother has done the same thing to me my entire life, both on a personal and a categorical level. I eventually had to disassociate myself from her which was difficult given the amount of emotional attachment that accumulated in the type of home environment she raised us in. The whole “suck it up” advice is useless and even antithetical as men will do what I do with my mother and simple slink off into our little corner of the world and lead our private lives into social oblivion.

The solution is not “battle, but total, all-out, unconditional war, war with no-quarter. Until you men are willing to mercilessly hurt people, literally, you will keep retreating and pass facelessly and uselesly into history.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:11 am Heather:

I’ve worked in a male-dominated industry my entire adult life, often as the only woman in the room. All of the “male-bashing” the letter-writer and commenters are whining about? I’ve heard men saying the exact same things day-in and day-out about their wives, girlfriends, and women in general. Women are stupid. They shouldn’t be allowed into engineering schools. They’re evil. They’re lazy. They’re greedy. They’re sucking them dry. They have the AUDACITY to be tired and in pain after childbirth. Blah blah blah. Present company excluded, of course–both men and women have been telling me I’m not a “real woman” for the last 15 years (strangely, it’s not a compliment, even during women-bashing).

So I’m not buying this “men are society’s victims” bull**** anymore than I ever bought the “women are society’s victims” bull****. I think some people are just too caught up in viewing everything through a prism of gender–the same way some people can’t see anything but race. “Women” aren’t stupid, but some individual women sure are. “Men” aren’t jerks, but some individual men sure are. Etc.

The bullies of both genders are enabling the crybabies of both genders and vice versa. They all need to grow up.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:13 am DJ:

It’s interesting to see an over privileged, Western Civilization decline into decadence where feminist Matriarchy dominates western men. At the same time aggressive masculine cultures (hispanics and muslims) are flexing their muscles and expanding their territory. Reminds me of Gibbon’s Decline and Fall.

I’m rather glad I have no children who will grow up to oppress the poor matriarchs.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:13 am Don't do it:

You have to get rid of the “progressive”/”liberal” mindset and policies in the schools.

Because they’re the ones who are self-righteously supporting stereotypes. How progressive. MLK would be so proud. Not.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:24 am Mike:

Anti-male snottiness is too pervasive and constant to argue with, unless you want to become a crank and a bore. It’s not really most women’s fault–they just absorb it from the culture. Few are actively malicious man-haters.

Everyone rolls their eyes when men (especially white men) compare their experience with that of other despised minorities, but whether men deserve it or not, the dynamic is the same: Everywhere a man goes he has to put up with implicit to explicit contempt, put-downs and threats that would be fighting words if directed at other groups.

Men (especially white men) do have a significant advantage that other minorities don’t: we really do run the world. Everything the misandrists do to us is because we invite them to.

To use another analogy likely to offend, men are like a parent who accepts constant bad manners and verbal abuse from a snotty teenager. Do any of us feel sorry for such parents rather than wanting to kick them in the butt?

I don’t feel sorry for men. I feel sorry, usually after the fact, for the women who try to joust with me.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:40 am NikFromNYC:

Is Phyllis Chesler curable? I’ve refreshed this page five times. She each time appears on the right, with her picture, on this very page.

Is her obesity curable? Yes! Just read the book you, Instawife and Instahusband recommended: ‘Good Calories/Bad Calories’ along with the book Omega-RX Zone (about fish oil).

Is her man-hatred curable? Am I assuming man-hatred from a founding mother of feminism? Let’s do some research. Wow. She became a feminist because she moved to…WOW…Afghanistan! Lately she’s been an activist against anti-semitism. I’m starting to like her. Uh, oh: her *early* books toe the man-hating party line, but her latest interviews are more Libertarian, even though she doesn’t admit that her early work was classic stereotyping of all men, based on the men in…Afghanistan. And she now used the term “third-wave feminism” which I assume has stopped stereotyping all men as Taliban thugs. I wonder what she now thinks of the toppling of the Taliban, which now means girls can legally (i.e. not under threat of death) learn to read there, for the first time in decades?

***

Time to read all the comments…be back in an hour…

***

First I must wonder why there is little discussion at high policy level of Affirmative Action for men, since women now represent 2/3 of college graduates, assuming that recent statistic isn’t some urban myth?

“The next step is, “Mom, you are an abuser. Until you learn some self-control, I cannot be around you except once in a while for perfunctory family holidays. If I am not around as much as you would like, you have chosen to keep me away with your sexist abusive attitude towards me.”

OMG that’s *so* wonderfully wicked that only a woman (or a member of the male-empowerment “community of pickup artists”) would even dare *think* of it. THANK YOU!!! I don’t think but 50% of males or females in our culture know what ‘perfunctory’ means though, nor would recall it even if they did, when Mom starts ragging on them. Translation thus? “Mom, just f*ck off and I mean that’s a threat. Yell at me for being a guy again. See what happens. SHUT UP, B*TCH. Just shut the h*ll up. I will not visit a man hating zombie, got it? I asked you a question. Do you UNDERSTAND?” Now is the hard part, because, no, she will *not* understand it. She will tie knots, backtrack, etc. etc. etc. So? Next man-bashing session. Get up and leave. Drive away. Only non-emotional actions work for behaviorial modification of wife or mothers. Consider that she is *trying* to get a rise out of you, *trying* to provoke and upset you, since you are ironically too WIMPY of a man for her, as a woman, to respect! It does not mean you have to become a fist-weilding pimp, just a person who LEAVES, with no emotion (many women being emotion junkies), when you are disrespected or insulted as a person.

Another thing I hesitate to say, is that some people, men and women alike are masochists, but it’s kind of hard to find a sadistic soul mate, so they use a honeymoon period to pull a person in, then start to mindf*ck them into being abusive towards them. This happened to me. I felt awful. I was the bad guy. Then I read several dozen books on passive-aggression and personality disorders. I thought it would help, but when an emotional vampire is exposed to light, they tend to move on instead of change, so instead of fixing things, you lose the love of your life, or worse, they switch back to honeymoon stage for several weeks or months to keep hold of you. Beware lads.

Finally though, one thing *not* addressed by this article is that men are not stupid. We have FIGURED out that most men are pussywhipped from birth to schooling to college to the workplace. So to stand out, we merely need to be UTTERLY immune to and flippantly intolerant of man-hatred culture, and guess what? Women become HIGHLY attracted to us, almost *any* woman notices a man who is unapologetically MASCULINE, as in outspoken in public, or who shows obvious sexual interest in women akin to his testosteronal hyper-interest in an hourglass-shaped parked Ferrari. It’s more a matter of disbelief than anything else. We grab a girlfriendless friend, and say “watch this” and walk right up, put our arm around a girl in a group, surrounded by “you’re so cute” guys, and tell her she should come talk to us. And she *does*!!! The eyes of our friend pop out. But then he rationalizes it as something he cannot do or have, so you have to trick him into doing it himself, so his protective (”don’t be a man!!!!”) subconscious changes its tune.

O.K. having read the comments, indeed another well known scientific fact presents itself. Male humans feel sexual disgust very rarely, as in open puss-oozing sores and “crack whore” body language. But females turn on a dime and can feel sexual (and thus personal) DISGUST with men for even minor reasons. Why? Duh. They are programmed to expect to get PREGNANT if they warm up to a wimpy guy with “beat on” body language. There are two major tests that women ALWAYS apply. One is to ignore you at first, to test for actual (not just sexual interest). Two is to misbehave in some way to TEST you for how you deal with misbehavior. Why? That’s how you will be as a father. If you are too accepting of misbehavior, you will not make a good father. If you get SUPER upset, again, you’d suck as a father.

The other reason for this “odd fickleness” of women is that once they have sex with you, their body releases hormones that make her bond with you, so that instead of grabbing for straw man reasons to not like you, suddenly they are rationalizing why you are such a great guy. Here is the refrain of ugly feminsts everywhere: “Men suck! Pigs! Animals!” (= he didn’t “call back”). Solution? Look good in the morning. Do not tie your long hair up like his grandmother does. Do not stink. Do not call yourself a “slut” outloud, over and over and over again, as if you regret following natural urges. Especially, do not, over breakfast, congradulate the man for being a feminist who should read the SCUM (”Society to Cut Up Men”) by the gal who shot Andy Warhol. I am merely describing my last online date, as in last one, ever.

Conspiracy Theory: The MSM (Main Stream Media) and it’s “luxury good” income via advertising sources, want men and women both to feel inadequate. So a man isn’t a man unless he showers a girl with diamonds and pearls, and a woman isn’t sexy unless she displays diamonds and pearls (and a male-like six-pack stomach).

Another problem is that men have forgotten how to give women orgasms. I mean deep ones. It’s via PASSION, your passion, your UNIQUE attraction for her. I know, I know, we all want harems, but this is just so obvious: love the one you’re with! And learn that their sex organ is actually over an inch away from your center of fun.

A few posters mentioned Ayn Rand. She had very high testosterone. Her books involved *rape* as their romantic climaxes. Bit much? But taken as a metaphor, it makes perfect sense. Women, like broken records exclaim without reservation that they “want a man who will ’sweep them off their feet’”. Uh, if that’s not a man on a horse, killing all the males in the village and collecting her as “booty” then I don’t know what else is. A long walk on the beach? In chains!

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:44 am Don't do it:

Men (especially white men) do have a significant advantage that other minorities don’t: we really do run the world. Everything the misandrists do to us is because we invite them to.

Who’s this “we” you speak of, white man?

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:49 am Pious Agnostic:

With all the sitcoms out there today can you think of one that even comes close to making a female character look as silly as Ball on I Love Lucy?

Amazingly, there actually is a sitcom that fits this description: The New Adventures of Old Christine on CBS.

The main character (played by Julia Louis-Dreyfus) is brainless and very silly. It’s refreshing.

Now, the men on the show aren’t paragons of manliness, but they are usually more together than “Christine.”

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:50 am Dave:

Is it possible that the estrogens in chicken and meat have something to do with this? I wonder about this because men have changed.Since women have become financially independent, there is much more divorce and fatherless homes.

Look at something that has become much more ubiquitous in the American food supply…soy. Just google “Soy Estrogenic” or “Soy Baby Formula.”

After spending a few hours reading up on google, spend another couple in your local supermarket reading packaged labels of just about any kind of food you can imagine.

Soy, soybean oil, soy lecithin…it’s in just about any and every manufactured “food” product you can buy — and this has only been so for about the past 15 - 20 years.

Feb 21, 2008 - 11:57 am Mart:

Most women want the important men in their life to be men and not wusses. Some men have figured that out and some haven’t.

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:00 pm Cincinnatus:

The slightest amount of gentle politeness will be interperated badly.

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:09 pm notalawyer:

In my generation (fifties) and subculture (conservative Christian) and extended family (most members happily married), I hardly ever hear male bashing. Maybe I need to get out more. On second thought, maybe I don’t. My heart goes out to other guys who have to put up with this kind of drivel. I fear that male-bashing women get the kind of men they deserve.

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:35 pm the comment ghost:

I worked my way through college at a Ruby’s until just recently, Helen. Don’t worry, I doubt she spat in your food; we almost never do that. First, because the kitchen is far too much of a clusterfuck to figure out what someone’s eating, and second because serving you unmolested Ruby’s food is revenge enough.

I don’t have any trouble believing your story, however. Unhappy single young moms (or unhappy single young women soon to become moms) is a huge segment of Ruby’s server demographic.

Feb 21, 2008 - 12:46 pm Nicodemus:

“Men (especially white men) do have a significant advantage that other minorities don’t: we really do run the world. Everything the misandrists do to us is because we invite them to.”

Yeah. Sure. I run the world. That must explain why I drive an 18-year-old car and have a salary that’s 88% of what I was earning in 2001. All the power and privilege I get from being a white male has really paid off!

Feb 21, 2008 - 1:13 pm Ogre:

My stepdaughter was completely out of control and my wife preferred to pretend there wasn’t a problem. When my stepdaughter came at me with a knife I took it away, but I did not hit her or harm her in any way. So what did my wife do, who had witnessed the entire incident? She tried to get the police to arrest me for assaulting her daughter.

I’m divorced now. Big surprise there.

Feb 21, 2008 - 1:29 pm Jason Van Steenwyk:

I don’t worry about it. I try to do right by the women in my life, regardless of their perception. Some of them notice or appreciate it more than others. Most don’t really appreciate it, but I don’t do it for their appreciation. I do it because that’s what I expect of myself, as a gentleman.

If I perceive that someone is going out of her way to find stuff wrong with me, I pretty much de-involve her from my life, though. Maybe that’s a pre-emptive response to nagging. Then again, I am still single!

I think the exchange with the waitress was overreacting, and uncharitable: You don’t know what that waitress has gone through with the men in her life, and you don’t know how tongue-in-cheek her remark was.

There may well be a history there that’s very painful, and so she deals with it via humor. I think slamming her is a bit premature.

I don’t like to criticize someone unless I first walk a mile in her shoes.

That way, when I do criticize her, I’m a mile away…

… and I’ve got her shoes.

Feb 21, 2008 - 1:31 pm Francis W. Porretto:

The great irony about male-bashing is that it affects its targets in precisely the opposite ways the bashers would prefer.

Men without adequate supplies of dignity, inclined to conciliate women who bash men, become ever less manly. Ultimately, their womenfolk find themselves running their men’s lives, and disliking the sensation intensely.

Men with adequate dignity, and the will to assert themselves when attacked, distance themselves from their attackers, who ultimately discover that what they value in men are the very characteristics they’d been deriding.

“You cannot do wrong without suffering wrong….Justice is not postponed.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson, “Compensation.”

Feb 21, 2008 - 2:15 pm Tood:

The Western World and Islamic world are at opposite extremes. In the West, women are in power and men are oppressed. In Islam, men are in power and women are oppressed to a much greater degree than any group in the West is oppressed.

The two need to interact with one another a bit more so that balance is achieved. A tiny dose of Islam making its way into Western society will do a lot to keep rampant feminism in check.

Feb 21, 2008 - 2:45 pm mercurior:

Even here in these comments, we have this man is a wimp, he needs to be a real man. All are derogatory terms to turn men who are afraid to speak out, because of financial, social ostracism. If we do speak out we get called a sexist pig or a neanderthal, if we dont we get called not a real man. So damned if we do, Damned if we dont. why bother to defend yourself, when they turn that very defence into the very thing you are trying to defend against.

Feb 21, 2008 - 2:49 pm gordo:

I had the misfortune of marrying a woman who took a dim view of men (it didn’t appear until after the ceremony). She and her sisters would sit around and complain about men and their awful ways. I left the marriage and the real tragedy is that now she is training my two daughters to be like her. I am really concerned about their future but since I am now persona non grata in their eyes as well there is little I can do.

But, since then, I have met many women that are happy to let a man be a man and would be disappointed if he wasn’t.

For those men looking to get married look hard at the woman’s family background regarding this issue. My ex’s mother and her mother were maneaters - I should’ve taken note and run for the hills.

Feb 21, 2008 - 3:07 pm Don't do it:

Uhh, Tood - uhh no. A tiny bit of islam injected into western society will just result in two sets of rules for two different groups. If you want the respect that muslim men get not only from muslim women, but also from western feminists, there’s only one way you’re going to get it. Convert.

Feb 21, 2008 - 3:19 pm CNS-Mike:

The almost ever present male-bashing on network TV has really disgusted me for quite some time, but now that I have a son I am even more aware of the poison. Thankfully, my wife (who happens to be from overseas) also sees the constant emasculation for what it is and we watch very few network TV shows. We want our son to grow up to be a strong man, without the expectation that it’s OK to be a loser, a wife-beater, an idiot, or an incompetent toolbox because that’s what he’s watched on TV for umpteen years.

My advice to married man (and all males) - stand up for yourself (and your gender), if only to earn some of the self respect that’s vital to live a good life. It’s certainly not going to get any better if we all just bend over and take it. Every one of us who doesn’t stand up to male bashing (or any other kind of oppression) sets up our future generations for more of the same failure. Stop the P*ssification of America!

Feb 21, 2008 - 3:51 pm Mike K:

I liked that Budweiser commercial and sent the link to my sons.

I wonder if “Married Man”’s mother was divorced at the time she was abusive to him ? I was divorced when my oldest son was 13. He is now 42 and can barely stand to be around his mother. She became very anti-male and I believe this was harmful to our daughter. She was a bit that way before the divorce and her favorite saying was “It’s my mission in life to keep you humble.”

Ironically, we are now friends 30 years later and have discussed our divorce and the reasons why it happened. Our sons, who are very masculine, are tolerant of her but she has paid a price for her male-bashing.

Feb 21, 2008 - 4:00 pm Don't do it:

CNS, a sensitivity is something that needs to be developed. Otherwise, it’s all background noise. I was turned off to movies a long time ago for this among other reasons. This past weekend, I ended up having to sit through “Terminator 2″. It was supposed to be a guy flic, right? It was the biggest load of white male bashing I think I’ve ever seen! The only good males were either minority, children, or machines!

Ptooy. If that’s supposed to be a guy flic, I’ll play video games.

Feb 21, 2008 - 4:16 pm Mylai:

Muslim men (under oppressive towards women - sharia) are feared by their wives, not respected. big difference boys.

I simple cannot believe western men are that threatened, upset et al to think that this kind of religious law will make up for their hurt feelings. Oh my God, please.

Women who bash men out loud and to the point of being obnoxious are just that, obnoxious and self-hating. They most likely hate everyone else as well as themselves otherwise they wouldn’t behave in such a anti-social way.

It’s perfectly ok to insult a woman who is insulting you. By all means let her have it, it’s the only way to get people to shut the heck up at times.

Feb 21, 2008 - 4:16 pm Glenn:

As a devoted husband of 33 years, when I sit back and contemplate what women collectively think of men, I consider two things: (1) Look at what women watch on TV; and (2), Note how the majority of women vote.

Women collectively deny the stereotype that they are driven by emotions. Yeah, right (LOL). Then, I thank God that I’m a man.

Glenn

Feb 21, 2008 - 4:52 pm Nancy:

Probably too late to post, but in reading some comments, I was reminded of a clip of a “View” discussion…the ladies at the table were having a straight-faced discussion about whether or not today’s men would allow themselves to be hit by a woman without hitting back…I kept waiting but the obvious “duh” perspective was never offered by anyone at the table…that NOBODY should ever be hitting ANYBODY. Eh, found it interesting, thats all…

Feb 21, 2008 - 5:09 pm aloysiusmiller:

Don’t worry about us D. Helen. The strong can take it.

We don’t pick on women, children or minorities because of noblesse oblige. We’re men! Heaven help us if we see ourselves as aggrieved. Who then will exercise noblesse oblige?

Feb 21, 2008 - 5:12 pm MarkD:

You guys are hanging around with the wrong women. This just wouldn’t happen in either direction in my family or my parent’s family. It’s bad manners and not acceptable.

It took years before my wife would let me hold the door for her. There is a longstanding fallacy that Japanese women are submissive. That is not true, but they are, in general, very well mannered. There is a saying in Japan that girls from Hiroshima make the best wives. That’s a generalization, but I won’t argue against it.

Insults don’t mean a thing unless you care about the people saying them. Otherwise, it’s just a fool advertising his or her stupidity.

Feb 21, 2008 - 6:29 pm Yaakov Watkins:

I have been a male homemaker and primary parent since 1987. I am 56 years old. I put my wife through graduate school.

It’s my opinion that men have no idea what women want and that women have no idea what men want.

Men: If you want to make your wife happy, do three things every day and one thing every week.

Take out the trash. Tell her that you love her. Thank her for something she’s done. And once a week tell her that what she is wearing looks good on her.

Women: Let him pretend to be in charge. Let him pretend that he’s stronger than you are. Let him have his delusions. Fair is fair. You don’t want him to say exactly what he thinks of your complexion and weight do you?

And men if you want to go over the top, show up at her work tomorrow with $15 worth of flowers in a vase, and $15 worth of chocolate in a bowl. Put them both on her desk. Tell her you love her and go back to work. Doing that occasionally is much cheaper than a marriage counselor, more effective, and less annoying than answering stupid questions about feelings. And it’s a lot cheaper than a divorce attorney.

If we spent half as much energy building up our spouses as we do tearing them down we would be a lot happier. Remember, your wife is prettier when she is happy.

Feb 21, 2008 - 6:41 pm Cat Glass:

Ode to men

Who could sail a ship, ride a horse, set a broken bone, plant and harvest a crop, shoot and dress a deer, cook dinner, write a sonnet or a song, solve an equation, repair a machine, teach a child, love a friend, respect and love a woman, play sports, make a just law, explore the unknown, dress plainly and elegantly, defeat oppression with a band of brothers, never say die, die bravely, dance willingly if inexpertly, retain a sense of humour, treat animals kindly, love God and neighbour, speak honestly, and act resourcefully in the face of adversity.

They lived once. They live now.

Posted on Brits at their Best on February 14

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:33 pm Ken Mitchell:

Why do Men Die First?

http://www.jumbojoke.com/why_men_die_first_1365.html

Because WE WANT TO!

Feb 21, 2008 - 7:48 pm Mister Snitch!:

You know, Helen, you’ve gotten lots of comments on these pieces on this subject. And you are married to a guy with the means to promote you.

Time to write a book.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:02 pm NikFromNYC:

Yaakov Watkins’s comments are the other side of the coin, indeed. I left that part out in my Man-ifesto.

First: don’t put up with abuse.

Second: make her the one, or at least favorite wife, if you are a Playboy at heart, and mean it, as in actually choose her as the best wife. If one lover wants monogamy, indicate that you as a man are sacrificing your dream for her, so you expect her to *never* forget that fact, even if you get fat.

Third: realize that truly cute/smart (science says they go together!) girls are *easier* to meet and talk to than their ugly friends, and it’s *so* much easier to call a girl the most beautiful one in the world if she really *is*.

Feb 21, 2008 - 8:30 pm Greg:

Oy, Yaakov, are you serious?

You bite me, I will bite back. Only my elder sister can hit me without getting hit in return. (Parents excluded, of course, since it’s their job to administer corporal punishment)

Of course, my sister also wanted me to rub oil on her, so we are not necessarily the most functional family unit, I realise…

All joking aside, however, it is my belief that men should be men, unashamed, unabashed. Dr Helen, I think a whole lot of troubles in the Western society can be avoided by applying this rule. Let men be men, and women be women. as long as both sides understand what that means, there should not be so much friction.

Feb 21, 2008 - 9:05 pm Dutch:

My comeback to condecending “borg assimilated” women is very effective. I’ll pass it on to all true gentlemen and you’re welcome to it.

” I cost a thousand dollars an hour and I want to see the expiration date on your credit card. If you’re in a position to meet that requirement, further demonstrate the lost womanly arts of Charm and Allure. If you meet those requirements to my satisfaction, I might lower the price.”

Feb 21, 2008 - 10:07 pm Tom:

I don’t watch sitcoms anymore because men are always idiots saved from certain failure and humiliation by their beautiful, intelligent wives.

As to personal interactions with women - some women like men and some don’t. I stay away from those who don’t. If necessary, I’ll respond to comments I feel are particularily offensive. Most times I just consider the source - mid 30’s or later, unmarried or divorced, putting on the pounds and miserable. Women that hate men are unhappy people. Mostly I feel sorry for them.

If I’m in a situation when I have to interact with a man-hating woman I’ll just tell her to keep her comments to herself.

When I was a single guy, I had a date with a 30ish attorney. She spent the entire time complaining about men. I recall she mentioned castration a few times. I’m serious.

I cut the date short, walked her to her car and said in a very nice way “I don’t know what he did you, but I’m not him.” She called the next day. I didn’t answer and never called back.

I refuse to spend my life allowing someone else to define me. You don’t like me? Fine. I’ll hang out with people who do.

Feb 22, 2008 - 4:14 am katielenn:

I am part of an ‘urban tribe’ consisting of about 15 never married/long divorced single women in our 40s. Several years ago two of my closest friends and I realized how much time we spent man bashing. Much of it was good natured ribbing. However we realized that if a man said that about a woman we would deck him.

Since then we have pulled back on the amount and nature of the male bashing. Also in the past couple of years I have developed close friendships with two married men (no hanky panky) and realize how alone and isolated they feel.

Feb 22, 2008 - 5:44 am Chris Arsenault:

It is easy to laugh off male bashing and negative stereotypes of men as unimportant or something to ignore but young boys are listening and picking up on what is being said. I wonder how this negativity will play out in subsequent generations.

Helen - I think you hit the nail on the head - It’s already playing itself out through our younger generations - we can see the impacts today in the campus hookup culture and young men’s refusal to become sufficiently mature for marriage. We can see it in their refusal to marry and instead cohabitate. Male bashing is all about those subsequent generations.

I believe the whole hosility issue can be traced to a man’s sexual identity/procreative power and how those are currently defined by US law - in particular through Roe vs Wade, Doe, Casey etc.

As a nation, we’re bipolar when it comes to men’s responsibilities towards future generations, and this confusion clouds men’s thinking and triggers humiliation and disrepect across the board, even from men.

Women want us to be “men”, but also want to reserve the right to abort, effectively “emasculating” men and the greatest extent of our sexual manhood - children. Should the woman choose to carry the child, the man has already had his say with regard to parentage of the child. During the first nine months, the woman gets to individually decide if their sex was recreational or procreational, and in this manner the man is reduced considerably to being little more than a stud service. Even in a marriage, she gets to decide 100%. That’s 100% wrong.

Men are severely conflicted when it comes to this situation - most men deep down are pro-choice for numerous reasons, but don’t really understand the source of feminine hostility. I believe that if that were not so, we would have seen Roe rejected by the people a long time ago.

The very reason Roe is where it is, and why we’ve experienced more than 45 million abortions in our culture is because some portion of men have been procreatively irresponsible. After 35 year that describes a majority of men in the US.

Is male bashing curable? Only if the men of the United States are willing to make a stand for future generations and put an end to the madness by identifying social responsbility when it comes to procreative power and reign in the porn, promiscuity and adultery. Until then, there’s no reason for women and children to feel loved and in turn give respect to deserving men.

Feb 22, 2008 - 5:49 am William Oliver:

I think that decrying the “war between men and women” is tilting at windmills. That we are mutually at least partially incomprehensible to each other has been the source of comedy and terror since time immemorial. One only need look at Aristophanes’ Lysistrata, written in 411 BC:

O these dreadful old men

And their dark laws of hate!

There, I’m all of a tremble lest I turn out to be too late.

I could scarcely get near to the spring though I rose before dawn,

What with tattling of tongues and rattling of pitchers in one jostling din

With slaves pushing in!….

I don’t think it’s the “male bashing” that’s the problem, any more than it’s “female bashing” when guys get together and talk about the perversities of the female sex. I think that the problem is that it is getting too one-sided. People need to vent, and they need to deal with the fact that men and women are different in ways that both entrance and infuriate each other. It’s wonderful and it’s aggravating, and it’s one of the amusing mysteries of being human.

It’s clear that there’s a point where “male bashing” is just expressing what has been expressed since Eve told Adam to pick up his damned fig leaf and put it into the dirty clothes hamper for the 150th time — and there’s a point where it expresses real hate. It’s only the *latter* we must worry about; the former is part and parcel of humanity. And, of course, the converse is true. It’s not so much that “male bashing” is so bad; it’s that “female bashing” is being censored too heavily — and neither is being done with appropriate humor and love.

The bottom line is that it’s not that men are being treated so badly. Women are taking themselves much too seriously. It’s the mix that works, and always will.

What we need is not to try to squash it, but just to note that it works *both ways.*

billo

Feb 22, 2008 - 9:32 am Stosh2:

Dr. Helen:

Going back a bit….

I think you addressed the concerns raised in the letter in your usual perceptive and humane way.

However, “…it really hurts me when…” is 100% girl speak.

Suggesting that a man use girl speak to confront the women who have been psychologically abusing him for years does not seem like an effective course.

Consciously or subconsciously they will pick up on this and most likely consider him unserious and deserving of the treatment they have given him all along.

It appears that these women may not possess the motherly / familial instincts - that are popularly credited to women - to appeal to.

Ending a decades long practice and way of thinking and relating to people will take a much firmer and bolder approach.

Feb 22, 2008 - 9:50 am Don't do it:

Oh horsecrap, Oliver. You’ve completely obfuscated the issue, which is the double standard. Whether men and women now or ever will understand each other is completely beside the point. The point is that there’s social license for a double standard, and that’s simply wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts, just simply wrong.

Feb 22, 2008 - 10:32 am John:

Dear Helen.
If this were a woman who had p[roblems with the opposite sex, would she have “psychological problems?” Would you suggest that she “could learn to handle negative stereotypes?” Would she have “given up and be licking her wounds?” Would you suggest that she give the “benefit of the doubt” to those that are hurting her? Does MS. Ritchie have th perogative of “showing the media in a poor light?”

Signed,
Enlightened Man

Feb 22, 2008 - 10:58 am Rick LaBonte:

Forget the sensitive girlspeak. “My feelings are hurt when you call me names. Boo hoo.” Toughen up. The first thing is, stop caring what other people think or say about you. Lionel Ritchie is right. Tell the bit__s to blow it out their a$$. You can’t win arguing with them. Thankfully, feminazism is a one- or two-generation anomaly. They are aborting their offspring. Watch Europe and see what sharia law is going to do to feminazism over there. Wait until Obama gets to be President and watch his wife run the show. She’s a bully a la Hillary. Don’t worry, pal, the pendulum is going to swing back - maybe not in our lifetime, but our grandsons might be getting some paybacks.

Feb 22, 2008 - 11:24 am William Oliver:

“Oh horsecrap, Oliver.”

Well, no. That was rather my point — it’s not that complaining about the opposite sex is wrong, but, as I wrote, that criticism of women is censored and that of men is not.

And that’s the distinction I was talking about. Running around complaining about male-bashing plays into this idea that all such things are wrong. It isn’t. What’s wrong is that one is OK and the other is not.

Thus, when *I* hear a woman start to go off on men, I don’t start whining “Ohhh, you are hurting my little male ego.” I go “Oh yeah? Let me tell you something about women…”

billo

Feb 22, 2008 - 12:09 pm Lea:

The Western World and Islamic world are at opposite extremes. In the West, women are in power and men are oppressed

Men are NOT “oppressed” in the West. Seriously, guys. You need to chill. Has the pendulum swung too far in the men bashing direction? Possibly. But the lady who spoke earlier was right. Men do plenty of women bashing themselves. I don’t see any oppressed men here at work, but I do see some women who get less respect and fewer promotional opportunities because they are women.
Women get away with men bashing because they don’t have as much physical or professional power as a whole as men do. Maybe someday the

I also agree with the person who mentioned that some women have Perfectly Good Reasons for hating men. It’s unfortunate, but true. Of course, just because some man was horrible doesn’t mean they all are, but people aren’t always rational. I have also had the opportunity to hear some truly disgusting stories of the way women used to be treated at my work a scant twenty something years ago.

As for the original letter, the man in question either needs to leave an abusive familial relationship, or learn to take things less seriously (possibly using gentle chiding when these things occur). I can’t say which, because so much of this is all in the tone.

Feb 22, 2008 - 12:36 pm Mylai:

If the muslims want Sharia law, that’s their problem and will never affect non-muslim women in europe. That is just pie-in-the-sky hope for the few men who’ve commented here who total control another human being. For compassion sake, put yourself in the shoes, or burqas, of the women who suffer under this repressive law. This is an extreme that I would never like visited on one sex over the other. So no need to go there. I would like to live in the fantasy that men do not need to have laws stating their right to abuse, which is basically what it is, another human being in order to feel “like men.”

Western culture has fought too hard for these rights of women so I think if the couple of men here who dream of a “sharia” religious law really want it, my advice is to convert now, go to the middle east, marry a nice muslim woman or 2 or 3 or 4.

As was mentioned prior, stand up for yourself not to be verbally insulted by anyone, whether it be a male or female. That’s all there is to it. Take them to task!

Everyone, as far as i can see lately, has become a little too free with their mouths. What on earth ever happened to common courtesy? Thinking before speaking? The lack of which goes straight across the board. The schools are picking up where parents are failing because they are both too busy and even THEY are failing.

Common courtesy and respect between the sexes, has to be taught early on or else it’s just too late sadly.

Feb 22, 2008 - 12:56 pm NikFromNYC:

“Ode to men: Who could sail a ship, ride a horse…”

Today’s equivalent: merely know what a bowline (the king of knots) *is*, though it is not so much how to tie it (inner our outer), but which is also very easy to tie with your eyes closed. First close your eyes. Now grab the end of the rope with your right hand, and use it to pass over the rest of the rope in your left hand, but keep going, so you straighten the rope in your right hand, creating a loop in your left hand. Now merely pass the end once more through that loop. No matter how much stress you put on that knot, it will be stronger than the rope itself, and it will, unlike shoelaces, also untie in two seconds, no matter what load it has been used for.

Now if you also know how to tie a ‘Monkey’s Fist’ either in two, three, four, or even (never seen it done) five passes, then you can claim Manhood, especially if you tie it around a large round rock, then splice the knife-tapered ends back into the rope, as you did for the loop handle, creating a very serious weapon, quite a bit more stealthy, deadly and lighter than a loud gang member’s hardware store clanking chain, and no match for a plastic box cutter either.

Feb 22, 2008 - 1:14 pm NikFromNYC:

I keep coming back to this page. It’s a wonderful thing you’ve done, for the nine million readers of your mysteriously ‘bye for now’ husband. Has he gone to an ice house to live forever, only to awake a criminal in a Sleeper world where “fat is good for you”?

http://wendyknits.net/images/ManlyArt.jpg

‘The Manly Art of Knitting’ = a book I own, which is now $135 a copy, making it over a dollar a page. But it involves using pool cues as knitting needles to make things like saddle pads, or ‘Welcome’ mats to rub mud off your boots.

My point was extreme (no, not in hindsight a good idea, to call Mom the ‘B” word…unless she is one: Websters definition = “spiteful female”), but the final thing I left out was #5.

(5) Females run circles around any man in SIZING UP SOCIAL SITUATIONS in a moment. And in rare occasion they will checkmate you, as a man, on purpose, something you’ve thought about for weeks, bang, she pegs it, your jaw drops for being so blindly stupid, then it’s conversation as usual. Woman really are like cats, and men like dogs. That said, dog-bashing is unfair and useless. We dogs were born to achieve full “romantic” satisfaction in more simple ways than cats were. But a cat will sadistically play with a mouse before eating it from head to tail, something us simple dogs would never even think of. So control us, yes, but do so for the right reasons.

Feb 22, 2008 - 1:54 pm Don't do it:

I also agree with the person who mentioned that some women have Perfectly Good Reasons for hating men.

Replace “men” with “blacks”, and say that. Is it obvious now what’s wrong with that statement?

Feb 22, 2008 - 2:41 pm Don't do it:

If the muslims want Sharia law, that’s their problem and will never affect non-muslim women in europe.

Keep telling yourself that.

Feb 22, 2008 - 2:43 pm Mylai:

don’t do it:

Sharia for NON-muslim women in the western world? Natualized Western women have a lot more to say, not to mention clout than the unfortunate Saudi-born woman emmigrating to europe.

You think you have it bad now? Bashing ain’t all that’ll be coming your way from women if western men think to try and push that throw-back to slavery at us. haha. Real men wouldn’t want that for their women either, only the ones with little self-esteem would need sharia.

Ain’t gonna fly *wink*

But please go live happily in your dreamland.

Feb 22, 2008 - 3:09 pm Don't do it:

You completely missed the point. I don’t want sharia, but dimbulbs like you who don’t think there’s a real move afoot to get in installed in the west are in for a rude awakening. Especially when your feminist vanguard is obsessed with trivia, while stone silent on honor killings and FGM and other serious issues.

As you say, “live happily in your dreamland”. For the time being, anyway. The feminists are a lot more interested in bashing the US and Israel than protecting you from the barbarians at the gate. Don’t expect any help from them. You’re on your own. The feminists will be the ones handing out the burkas.

Feb 22, 2008 - 3:48 pm Mylai:

dont do it:

You are quite a severely agitated man aren’t you. Perhaps from too much bashing.

I could care less about the “feminists” you seem to think is at the root of all the evil in your life.

It’s regular everyday women, who outnumber the shrill die-hard feminists, who are unaffiliated with the NOW organization who will (along with like-thinking western men) step up to see that such foolishness (sharia) never sees the light of day.

The Archbishop in the UK is a complete idiot. And if you’ve been paying close attention you would see that there has been an amazing uproar and backlash. The story there is not ended.

And seriously, calm down, if your comments toward posters are any indication of the way you communicate in the non-internet world, I wouldn’t be surprised if you are bashed. Maybe it’s men such as yourself who are to blame for said bashings.

good day