Pajamas Media

75 Comments

syn:

I’m voting for the troops and their mission even if it means I’ll get McCain.

That said; remarkable how since 9/12/2001 Guiliani was leading in The Polls as the one who could beat Hillary then within a couple of weeks after he came in fourth in Iowa The Polls determined McCain as the one who could beat Hillary.

I’m now stuck with voting for The Poll’s candidate so I’ll do the best I can since our troops and their mission are on the line however the political blackmail going on is probably the reason why McCain is not loved very much by his party’s base.
McCain has been campaigning since he lost in 2000 but after all that time only managed to drive his party’s base away; what was it that caused McCain to suddenly, out of no-where become The Polls candidate?

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:03 am hoosiertoo:

Don’t worry. Most of the conservative base will hold their noses and vote for McCain because, of course, it is:

THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVER! tm

Hillybama are evil incarnate and Supreme Court Justices are creaky and…and…and…

Suckers.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:53 am Assistant Village Idiot:

“Ideally, a presidential candidate is supposed to embody the heart and soul of his party…” When has the ideal ever been true? You will never have a candidate who does it all, and if you think you’ve got one, you have probably been persuaded by charisma, Barack-style. Did you vote for Nixon? Ford? (even Reagan turned out squishy and secondary matters). Bush 41? Dole? Welcome to real life.

This is an entirely normal situation that some conservatives are treating as some terrible tragedy and deterioration. They say it is issues, and I believed them at first. But the discussion moves so quickly, over and over again, to how John McCain has said bad things about us and hasn’t been “loyal,” that I have to conclude that their objection is too much tribal and emotional.

I no longer believe it is principle. I believe people can find principles to hold up and hide behind, but those are not their reasons.

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:18 am 1Banjo:

At the risk of being called a “natavist” by the globalists, I think the transformation of the U.S. by the reconquesta is a greater threat to the nation and its values than our foreign adventure. These small wars come and go and Iraq is but one campaign in what will be a generations-long struggle. McCain is utterly unreliable on illegal immigration, so he won’t get my vote.

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:49 am Chuck Pelto:

TO: Pam Meister

RE: The Wonder of It All

“wonders whether conservatives and moderates can keep the lines of communication open. Otherwise, stubbornness on both sides will lead to a crushing defeat in November.” — Pam Meister

When’s the last time you watched that PBS mini-series, I, Claudius?

Does the term, “Let all the poisons of the Earth hatch out,” mean anything to you?

Regards,

Chuck(le)

[Don’t blame me. I’m voting for Bill and Opus.]

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:53 am David Thomson:

“They either want the whole loaf, or they’ll wait for next time.”

This would be somewhat comparable to the Allied powers taking a long vacation during World War II. The person who utters such a stupid sentiment deserves to be ridiculed. They are talking and acting like a an immature child. Western Civilization is severely threatened and we are at a danger point of no turning back. The destruction in just the last few years has been mind-boggling. If nothing else, the Democrats will essentially gut the struggle against the Islamic nihilists.

Middle of the road and conservatives voters should also be alerted to the horror of a possible Democratic Party president selecting the next judges to the U.S. Supreme Court. Some people, alas, embrace the peculiar notion that these nine judges only deal with the abortion and other cultural war issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Leftists like Harold Koh would gut our intelligence services and make it very difficult to fight terrorism. At this very moment, the Democrats in Washington, DC, are endangering our country by their fooling around with the law making “it easier for the government to spy on foreign phone calls and e-mails that pass through the United States.” http://tinyurl.com/2v8hcl

Feb 16, 2008 - 6:10 am C Smith:

Going back to Sun Tzu, there is great value in mis-information. For the Republicans, keeping Huckabee around leaves open the question of the nominee, and prevents the media from focusing in on McCain as aggressively as they would if he were the sole runner remaining. If the Republicans can’t tolerate a centrist like McCain, they’ll be tolerating a Democrat.

Feb 16, 2008 - 6:27 am Curly Smith:

I keep hearing that electing one of the Democrats will result in calamities too horrible and too numerous to mention, but those are all possible future outcomes. I know that electing McCain will further the rise of Liberal Big Government Republicanism. So my choice, evidently, is to not vote McCain and allow Big Democratic Government or to vote McCain and support Big Republican Government. Sorry, I’m not going to play your game.

If you really believe all of the Democratic horror stories then you should have nominated a candidate that I can vote for. The “blame” for my not voting falls squarely on the RNC, the GOP, and the liberal voters who support McCain. My “right to vote” includes the right to *not* vote if the candidate pool is unacceptable, as it is in this election.

I’m willing to compromise… who would you suggest instead of McCain? Oh, by “compromise” you mean “capitulate”. Yeah, that’s more of the RNC loser talk. BTW, how’d that work out in the House and Senate? How many more seats will the Republicans lose in 2008?

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:05 am David Thomson:

“If you really believe all of the Democratic horror stories then you should have nominated a candidate that I can vote for.”

Is it all about you? Does the world owe you something? No, I think you need to grow up and start acting like an adult. At this moment, you sound like a three year old having a temper tantrum.

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:17 am rockdalian:

These tripe arguments about how I am childish,etc,etc,etc for not voting McCain are getting stale. Because you have no principals, do not denigrate mine. You self-appointed vessels of all knowledge are boring. I will wait until the VP selection to decide. No solid Conservative as VP, no vote. One more question. With the Dems gaining more of a majority in the election, how does a President McCain continue the war with no Congressional authority or funding? Then what are you left with? A liberal Conservative that in no way nominates solid Constructionists to the Supreme Court. McCain will not suffer the indignity of seeing McCain-Feingold declared unconstitutional.

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:38 am Josh:

To all of you “highly principled” Conservatives who are going to sit out the election and dream of the Reagan years, here’s a nightmare that will spoil your sweet dreams: President Obama with a Liberal majority in House and Senate. If you think that the Che Guevara flags in Obama campaign offices were just a fluke then here is some real time reality. Daniel Ortega, you know the Cuban and Soviet-backed Marxist leader of the Sandanistas in El Salvador who REAGAN fought, against supports Obama. Reagan would b++ch slap you. If the Socialist Pandora’s box is opened it will never be closed and the blame will be put right on you. Economists agree that even if we get out of Iraq Obama’s plan of giving everybody everything falls about 200 billion short. That means what? He will be taking bread off your table to pay for his Socialist giveaways. I understand the frustration with McCain and he might be a hard pill to swallow but Obama will be jamming his nasty kicking donkey down your throats.

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:42 am skully:

I’m not thrilled with McCain, but I’m going to vote for him. The troops were the deciding factor. As much as I don’t like many of McCain’s policies, he will be a better commander-in-chief than either of the Traitorcrats. I cringe at the thought of the military in the hands of the left. With wussies like that in charge, they’ll probably have rules of engagement that require us to get Al-Qaeda’s permission to return fire.

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:47 am W. Keller:

Vote for McCain?

The mistake the Republican establishment made was moving so far “left” since they captured the Congress. And, after loosing the whole shooting-match in 2006, believing that more of the same would help. November will be brutal - and necessary.

Everyone keeps saying McCain will support the troops - as I am sure he will in words and his heart. But, with a House and Senate that will be near veto-proof, just what do you think he will be able to accomplish? We just saw a House willing to let our ability to monitor terrorist communication - months before a presidential election (anyone remember Spain - 3/11???) - a clear indication of the atmosphere McCain will have to work in. Do you really think he will be able to pass budgets to continue the GWOT?? Really?? Remember the ONLY REASON he is a maverick is that he LEAPS across the aisle, hugs Kennedy, Libermann, Finegold and any other Democrat near by. Intentions mean nothing, the ability to pass legislation does and he will have NONE.

I am DAMN TIRED of having everyone call me a right winger when I expect the intelligence community to use ALL TOOLS NECESSARY to extract information regarding attacks on Americans - including water-boarding!

I am DAMN TIRED of having everyone call me a right winger when I expect the government to keep dangerous terrorists in a secure area and to try them in a military court. Tell me, when McCain closes Gitmo, transfers these animals to Ft. Levenworth and the legal lefties are finally successful in having them tried is a civil court, will you volunteer to be on the jury? Will you stare down a terrorist, with your family at home, and give him the death penalty knowing he will be coming for you and your kids? Really?? This is a job for the military, let them handle it.

I am DAMN TIRED of having everyone call me a right winger when it comes to McCain. Excuse me?? I want: Secure Borders, stop paying to educate illegals’s children, stop making their babies citizens, stop giving them healthcare, stop giving them jobs, DO NOT LEGALIZE 12-20 MILLION of them and then invite their immediate family to join them, do not give them driver’s licenses, do not give them credit cards, do not give them home loans, THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am DAMN TIRED of having everyone call me a right winger when I resist, with all my heart, the stupid idea of man-made global warming, and plans on signing on to koyto to punish us for our successes as an industrialized nation. Anyone read the stories of an equally vocal band of scientists warning we may be on the edge of a mini-ice age because of reduced solar sun spot activity??? We’ve have broken the 1969 snowfall record here in Iowa - hello??? The sun is 333,000 TIMES LARGER than the earth!!!!! It is our thermometer, NOT man.

I am DAMN TIRED of having everyone call me a right winger when McCain saw fit to take away my First Amendment right to free speech through McCain/Finegold. Anyone notice how nicely the whole “no advertising against a named candidate 30 days before a primary” clause worked after his lies about Rommney in Florida??

I am DAMN TIRED of having everyone call me a right winger when McCain saw fit to take away the vote of my Senator through his little “gang of 14″. Scholar after scholar feels strongly that filibusters of judicial candidates are un-constitutional, we should have settled the matter once and for all.

The Republican Party, at the NATIONAL level, has chosen to move so far left, away from the BASIC principles of a secure nation, free speech, national sovereignty that I am now expected to abandon MY core beliefs - beliefs that have guided my 40 years as a voting Republican. As they ponder their disaster this fall - and make no mistake, it will be a disaster - it will not be because of conservative’s stubbornness, it will be because the Republican Party has abandoned every principle that attracted conservatives and replaced them with those of the liberal left. It has shown me the door, and I have taken the hint.

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:59 am mishu:

WK, You may be tired but staying home in November won’t get you any of those things you want and less.

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:25 am Peddler:

This is not a religious discourse but maybe something conservatives like myself can understand and accept. We do not live in a perfect world and we do not always have perfect scenarios when making a decision. Every day we chose to overlook or live with something we find not in agreement with our basic principles. We don’t have to endulge or engage in those activities but we do have to live in the same world with them.

Solomon held the baby up and with great stage presence made the announcement that he was going to “split the baby” in half. The result was not unexpected. The woman who was not the mother accepted the decision and was willing to sacrifice the baby for whatever reasons she had but love was not one of them. The true mother of the baby would rather give the baby to the other woman than have it put to death. Solomon recognized the sacrifice the mother was willing to make and gave the child to her. How the child turned out we will never know but there is a lesson here for Republicans and conservatives.

On one hand, we have conservatives who are not willing to accept the fact that McCain is a moderate conservative if that label is more accurate. Republicans who are loyal to the party are willing to accept McCain because on the core issues, Iraq and his promise to appoint true constitutionalists to SCOTUS, continue with Bush’s tax cuts, and a few other conservative initiatives important to the base is just enough to make him acceptable.

No one is happy with his McCain-Feingold bill which is totally unconstitutional, his close alliance with the Democrats and several other issues that would be out of the Republican/conservative mainstream.

The unfortunate thing is that true Republicans/conservatives only have half a candidate to get behind. Which half is more important at this point? Which half are we willing to sacrifice and which half is most likely to finally drive a stake into the heart of the Republican/conservative party?

Like it or not, admit it or not, believe it or not, biblical prophesy is accurate. All of the prophesy of the ancient prophets is slowly being fulfilled as each day passes. If we ignore history and especially biblical history we do so at our own peril. Perhaps the most telling of all prophesy was the one that foretold about the Nation of Israel coming back to existence and those scattered across the earth would return one by one. This is not fantasy but fact. It cannot be disputed.

And for those who like to impose religious beliefs into the equation, Jesus Christ understood that He lived in a time and a land under the oppressive rule of Rome. When asked about tribute, His reply was one of civil obedience. “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s” were His instructions to the disciples to obey the law of the land.

With that said, if Republicans/conservatives do not go to the polls on election day and vote for McCain, we will be guilty of handing the future of this country over to a party who is determined to undermine every principle this country was founded on. While those principles may not be written anywhere, for centuries we have lived with basic honesty, decency, and justice attributed to the average citizen. We have practiced a self-imposed seperation of church and state without the necessity of activist judges enacting legislation that could not muster enough votes to pass in an elected body of representatives. We have endured wars, civil strife, a depression, recessions, natural disasters, and we have survived.

W. Keller made some great points in his comments. I agree with most of them and understand his anger and frustration. In some ways I am an optomist but maybe this time a futile one. I still believe in America and if voting for McCain can preserve just enough to start a rebuild of a true conservative movement during his presidency, then we will have an opportunity to minimize some of the damage that will be done with a Democrat controlled congress. Of course McCain will do things to outrage conservatives but so has George Bush and every president we have had over the past 50 years. Even Reagan had his moments.

I am not a McCain supporter but I have to support someone in this election with my vote. I cannot sacrifice the baby and kill off the future of the Republican/conservative party in an act of selfishness and denial of the fact we live in the real world. McCain and his supporters can have the baby for now and I will vote for him in November. There is just too much at stake to make a pointless gesture. Is this the most important election in the history of this country? Maybe not to some but when you consider the impact of an Obama or Hillary win along with a greater majority in congress, the potential damage to this country is far greater than any enemy bomb could ever do. We do need someone who presents some degree of resistance, no matter how minor we may think it is.

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:25 am scott palter:

So all that matters is the party regardless of where the party stands and regardless of where the candidate stands on personalizing policy debates as disloyalty? Thank you for your opinion but I would rather see an elephant die. I have spent much of my life voting the Lesser Evil. Now I am told it is my duty to be insulted for the privilege. Sorry, but I am not a serf. I have been told to shut up and fall in line too often since 2004. Free, free at last. I will give what dollars I can spare and my vote to down ballots conservatives but a party that wants my vote by divine right can live without it.

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:26 am Curly Smith:

David Thompson says: “Is it all about you? Does the world owe you something? No, I think you need to grow up and start acting like an adult. At this moment, you sound like a three year old having a temper tantrum.”

So if I don’t do what you’ve determined is the proper course then I’m throwing a tantrum? Who’s the party engaged in name calling? Who’s the one stamping their feet? Is there some caveat that says “once you vote for a Republican candidate then you’re legally, morally and ethically obligated to vote for all Republican candidates”?

Keep calling me names, you’ll eventually win me over to your point of view.

What’s the basis of Big Government Republicanism? That would be “elitism” which in on full display in the war on conservatives. Do what the elites tell you or you’re “stupid, childish, throwing a tantrum, or (insert insult here)”. I don’t think that’s a winning plan but, then again, I’m not fan of the Big Government Nanny State.

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:29 am Tennwriter:

Maybe I am childish, deranged, a toddler having a temper tantrum, someone worthy of ridicule, a traitor to the troops, and you all are going to laugh unceasingly once Obama wins, and I whine about what he does.

Let’s say all you McCainiac liberals are right about the base of the R party.

We’re all dirt.

And you enjoy trampling on us because we are despicable people.

We are what you say we are. Now what are you going to do since you’re clearly and obviously the adults in the party? In your vast maturity and wisdom, you put forth one of the most liberal candidates. You decided to tip over the game table. Now you broke, now you fix it.

Tell me what you’re going to do, O wise man to avert the disaster of a Democratic victory.

Oh, you’re going to scream more at Conservatives. Hmmm, well, we’re childish, irresponsible idiots so I’m afraid we aren’t going to listen that well. We might even let our emotions overwhelm us, and vote for Obama out of malicious spite (because we’re EVILLLLLLLL!!!!).

There is another theory, but that theory requires you to acknowledge you made a mistake. And we know that you Liberals never make mistakes.

So we’re good then?

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:46 am Josh:

Correction: Daniel Ortega, Marxist President of Nicaragua not El Salvador supports Obama. Anyway Daniel smiles and says, “Vive le Revolucion de Estados Unidos!” What’s next? Hugo Chavez spending the night in the Lincoln bedroom after a bowling match with Obama?

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:49 am cacimbo:

Hopefully those ultra conservatives who cannot bring themselves to vote for McCain will be kept alive by their strong principles while on the queue for major surgery after national health care is implemented.

Feb 16, 2008 - 8:52 am Aron:

Curly, you’ll get a much bigger, much more intrusive Nanny without McCain than you’ll get with him. That’s guaranteed. You’ll even get Carter-era foreign policy as a bonus! Hope you like it!

Gee whiz. Antipragmatists like the tantrum-throwing archconservatives here had better get all their whinging out of their systems and come to their senses by November.

Feb 16, 2008 - 9:10 am Fatcat:

“Is it all about you? Does the world owe you something? No, I think you need to grow up and start acting like an adult. At this moment, you sound like a three year old having a temper tantrum.”

That’s the spirit Dave! That’s the way to get the conservatives to vote for McLame! Call us names and call us whiney little kids, all self absorbed with values and principles.
How dare we not consider voting for McLame, why the nerve of some Republicans!

I’ll be voting for the Rebpub. Congressmen and Senators here in NH because they still believe in the core conservative principles, but I’ll be voting third party or a write in for president. How could you vote for someone for president who has proven his distain for the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution and then feel proud of yourself when you watch him take the oath of office and knowingly lies when he repeats the words.

And besides, McLame won’t win even if I were to vote for him … he is the Jerry Ford of our time.

Feb 16, 2008 - 9:15 am 1Banjo:

In what way does having a supple spine on matters of principle confer the moral high ground to backers of the lesser evil? Yes, four years at least of Obama will be harrowing and the legacy will last for even longer. But the Republic has survived worse. If the finger-pointing is to start already I hope the RINOs and the “pragmatists” responsible for the Senator from Open Borders are willing to accept their share.

Feb 16, 2008 - 9:38 am New Mexico:

I’m not a great fan of John McCain since he has not stated his economic policies clearly. He may be a mediocre president at best. However it is clear that Hillary and Obama intend to take this country over a cliff which will so damamge our country politically, economically, and diplomatically that we may not be able to recover for generations to come if we ever crawl out of our future third world status.

As a Christian who is deeply committed to the inspiration of the Bible and who also is deeply committed to economic and social conservatism, I used to hold Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, and Ann Coulter in high regard. When these so called spokesmen and spokeswomen for the conservative movement begin to alienate people like me with their harsh rigid posturing, it shows how deep the rift in the conservative ranks is growing. The so called conservatives who demand that the rest of the “moderates” have to come woo them need to realize that by acting like spoiled children they are becoming completely marginalized from those who would normally be their allies and supporters.

It is rediculous for these sore heads to claim Ronald Regan’s mantle. I remember Ronald Reagan. He was a gentleman with grace, dignity and humor who would never resort to the childish temper tamtrums of his so called followers. In fact, I never recall Regan ever publically criticizing another Republican. When he criticized Democratics it was with a sense of good humor and graciousness. Unfortunately, the loud sounds comming from the so called conservatives today show none of the qualities which endeared Ronald Reagan to the country.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:01 am dougf:

“Maybe I am childish, deranged, a toddler having a temper tantrum, someone worthy of ridicule, a traitor to the troops, and you all are going to laugh unceasingly once Obama wins, and I whine about what he does.
Let’s say all you McCainiac liberals are right about the base of the R party.
We’re all dirt.
And you enjoy trampling on us because we are despicable people.
We are what you say we are. Now what are you going to do since you’re clearly and obviously the adults in the party? In your vast maturity and wisdom, you put forth one of the most liberal candidates. You decided to tip over the game table. Now you broke, now you fix it.
Tell me what you’re going to do, O wise man to avert the disaster of a Democratic victory.”

Simple answer — Not one damn thing. It’s not OUR funeral.

We can do what we can to elect McCain in November. But if he loses he loses only once. He has had worse things happen to him. He will survive and he will still be in the Senate where he can if he wishes punish ‘real’ conservatives for 2 more LONG years. Maybe even provide the one vote that will break all attempts at Senate filibusters.

‘Real’ conservatives, on the other hand, will just keep right on losing.

Ans since McCain is according to the ‘purists’ essentially just a ‘liberal’ in ‘conservative’ disguise, and since we RINOs all support him anyway, the likelihood is that a ‘liberal’ Democratic Regime will be far more simpatico to us than to all the ‘purists’.

So we’re not obliged to do anything . Why should we ? Since evidently we ‘win’ even if we lose. According to the chief anorexic ditz of the ‘movement’, all the doors in 2008 lead to ‘liberals’ so there is no difference. Heretics and deviationists can just sit back and watch as you guys slowly twist in the pending winds.

Almost makes it all worthwhile.

Almost.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:02 am W. Keller:

Peddler,

Your Solomon analogy is off a bit. The baby is not the Republican Party, but America. One mother is the Socialist Democrat party, the other is McCain. And, McCain is the one surrendering the baby to the Socialists. Not to preserve the baby’s life, but to “accomplish bipartisanship”. And, he does so proudly, wearing the mantel of “maverick”, not with the humbleness of a mother saving her child’s life.

Nothing will take us down the Socialist sewer quicker than McCain. Take a look at what it took for a moderately conservative congress to take hold - 8 years of Bill Clinton. Take a look at what it took for the Republicans to throw that away, 8 years of a moderate George Bush. The RNC learned nothing. Nothing.

For the first time in my 40 years of voting, I am faced with not a single individual that I believe has America’s best interests at heart - no one. All will lead us down the European Socialist road, ALL OF THEM. All will hand our sovereignty over to millions of illegal, uneducated and criminal people in the name of compassion. All will subvert our security by dumping Gitmo, gutting our military and walking away from the fight. And yes, this will happen with McCain because he does not have the stones nor the horse power to stand against the Socialist Democrat party. All will limit our free speech through McCain/Finegold and, I am confident, an attack on talk radio and bloggers political speech. All will hand over our sovereignty to the UN and the world via Koyto and, as has already happened, the LOST treaty. All will grow our dependence on foreign energy supplies by refusing to drill for our own resources, restricting construction of refineries and refusing to accelerate the construction of nuclear plants.

These concerns are the bed rock of John McCain. Nothing in his record would indicate a willingness to bend on any of these items. He should not have to convince me that he has had a change of heart, he should show me his record as proof of where his heart is - and he has.

As for me staying home on Election Day, why would I do that? I will vote for the most conservative Senator and Congressmen I can find or I actively find/support candidates to replace them. I will and actively do work to eject those who are now “moderate” or left of center. I blog, talk, argue. I am on my county’s Republican committee. And, Fred Thompson will get my write in vote for President.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:10 am Harry:

One characteristic of this election that describes the whole situation is that no leader has surfaced in either the Republican or Democratic parties. On the Republican side, when you have different factions with conflicting goals, a leader looks for a way to bring everyone together. Ronald Reagan did this so effectively that he ended up bringing some Democrats on board. I see no evidence that McCain is trying to do this.

On the Democrat side, does anyone seriously think that Hillary has leadership qualities? Obama charms, obviously, but does he have leadership skills? I suspect not, because he does not exude gravitas, which I interpret as the seriousness needed for those situations where I have to leave my life in the President’s hands. That test he definitely fails.

I will vote for McCain, not because I want to, but because he is a much better alternative to the Democrat. I would much prefer a dark horse candidate nominated in the convention.

Finally, the end result of this election is that I identify much less with the Republican Party than before. I am looking for a new political home, and the Republicans and the Democrats are not it.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:23 am Steve White:

I’m a Republican. I’m not necessarily thrilled with Sen. McCain, but I plan to vote for him in the fall. He is the nominee of my party, and he’s clearly better than alternatives offered by the Democrats.

To you conservatives out there: you have a choice You can vote Republican or not.

But if you don’t, don’t expect ANY FURTHER CONSIDERATION from Republicans like me.

We mainstream Repubs have been voting for your guys. We’ve been voting for Santorum, Cheney, Bonnor, etc. all these years. We’ve been loyal. We’ve pulled the lever for some pretty conservative people. No problem.

Loyalty works both ways. Now we need yours.

And if we don’t get it this November, we’ll know who to blame.

You can be a Republican conservative, or you can be a non-Republican conservative. Choice is yours. Stay home if you want. We’ll remember. I’m active in the party at a local level, and I can guarantee you that conservatives in my district who stay home in November will be looking for a new party.

Ronald Reagan recognized the value of getting half a loaf when that’s all there was to get. Are you guys as smart as Reagan?

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:36 am W. Keller:

Dougf,

Please, you post embodies the whole idea of a tantrum. And, proves my whole point. With McCain in office, the march continues towards European Socialism and the integration with the Socialist Democrat party. With out him in office, yet in the Senate, he “gets to punish conservatives” by staying his lifetime course. The outcome is the same, either with him as President or Senator. One thing he could do is to resign his Senate seat to show me it is about serving as President and not just his ability to wield political power.

What the now moderate Republican Party leadership seems to not see is just how much damage they have done to our Party and the country over the years. Their most recent travesty of Medicare Part D and the ratification of the LOST treaty will punish generations of Americans and is but a drop in the bucket since they regained power in 94.

When to draw the line? Well, the conservative members of the party drew it in 94 with the capture of the house and the “Contract with America”. And then the Republican Party promptly threw Newt and the ideals overboard. Just prior to the 2006 election, the conservatives raised the flag of immigration - which AMERICA is concerned with - only to be told to shut up and be compassionate and realistic. The RNC got their answer.

So please, you will get the government you want. You obviously want European Socialism; otherwise you would stand against it. You obviously want European Healthcare; otherwise you would stand against it. You obviously want 12-20 million illegals and their immediate family welcomed to our country; otherwise you would stand against it. America gets the country we want, and I suspect OHB will deliver it to us. A socialist, quasi-Marxist mix that will restrict freedom, empty the treasury and leave us defenseless.

And, if McCain is elected we will get - well, the same. Restrictions of free speech, a continues march towards Universal Healthcare, the amnesty of illegals and the extension of an invitation for their immediate relatives to join them, SCOUT judges that pass muster for the Socialist Democrat members of the judicial committee, elimination of Gitmo, continued dependents of foreign oil - I see no recognizable differences.

I am a realist, I am a pragmatist and it will be a long and difficult fight against these enemies of our Founding Father’s ideals. And the fight is made all the more difficult by people like you.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:43 am W. Keller:

For Steve White,

OK Steve, you are a Republican. Tell us all what your core values are that make you a Republican?

What is your “line in the sand”? What would you fight for? What would you die for? What do you see in McCain - other than his being a self-proclaimed Republican - that cause you to take up the gloves and fight for him??

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:49 am Harry:

After looking at the comments here, I am asking myself, “What exactly about McCain am I supposed to like?

Is it his expertise on the economy? He himself admits that the economy is not his strong suit.

Is it his strong defense of individual rights? He has done much to limit rights in his time in Congress.

Is it his strong defense of our national borders? He was about ready to give away the whole kit and kaboodle.

Is it his desire to prosecute the war with Islamic terrorists? I expect all citizens of the USA to do that, not just the Presidential candidates. (Yes, I am hopelessly naive.)

Is it his winning personality? From what I understand about the man, he is not the most agreeable person out there.

Is it his strong moral stance? Not quite. (Hint: Keating).

I am not trying to be cute here. To me, the current crop underlines the fact that true leaders run the other way when it comes time to elect a President. I’ll bet the media has a lot to do with that.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:55 am Frances De:

I am not happy with the probable republican nominee, but will vote for him anyway. It is pragmatic. there are three major decisions awaiting our next president: the war, health care and nomination of Supreme Court justices. These decisions, once made, will affect the future in most serious ways, and if the liberal democrats make them, no perfect future conservative president will be able to undo them. If we leave Iraq in an untimely manner, and send the message to AlQuaida and other terrorists that we are, again, weak, we will have those consequences to pay at a future date. No major entitlement program seems ever to go away - enough said about health care. Finally, I believe the nominees to the Supreme Court to be crucial for our future. I cannot for the life of me understand the viewpoint of some of the pundits who advocate not voting at all.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:56 am Zachary:

We all know that this great nation will suffer for the liberal policies of the extreme left. Obama and Clinton would implement a socialist platform that will kill the entreprenual incentive that has shaped our national heritage and improved our standard of living.

And what about McCain. I believe it will be more of the same. The difference being we will empower this liberal way of thinking among the GOP. What will happen when some of these policies fail under the GOP’s watch? Conservatism will be blamed for the policies’ ineffectiveness. “McCain was just not liberal enough for the plans to work.” and etc.

I am a conservative first.

Lets put it in perspective guys. We all love America and want whats best(even most of the Libs). At worst we will have a liberal Democratic president with a liberal Democratic Congress until the people get a chance to vote them out…WHICH WE WILL given how destructive their policies will be.

As for me, I carry a real message of hope. I am not moving away. Whatever the case, we have a much better life (and definitely more of a say in our lives) than anywhere else on the planet. This representation allows us to endure these liberal hardships and make a change in the future.

I think that Dems and Republicans and Conservatives will all agree on that.

Conservatives: GET OUT THERE AND VOTE FOR LOCAL NATIONAL AND STATE OFFICIALS. We can fill our Congress with conservative ideals and combat this liberalism.

Feb 16, 2008 - 10:57 am Mr. Puzzled:

I am baffled by some of the arguments on here. Leaving aside the anger and the ire, last I heard there was a war on against Islamic Fascism. The Archbishop of Canterbury,of all people ,just argued for Sharia Law in the United Kingdom. The Muslim populations of Beligum and Holland are growing by leaps and bounds. Italians are not procreating, leaving their country to the Somalis. Iran is on the edge of the bomb. Pakistan, which just had another suicide bombing this morning and is already armed with nuclear missiles, stands on the precipice of Islamism…

And people on here are worried about whether John McCain is conservative enough??? Please explain in a concrete manner why Barack Obama would be better to deal with the crisis of civilizations,which we now confront. Because you better be damn well convinced of that if you intend to sit out this election. Frankly, as a longtime conservative, I intend to do everything I can for McCain. I have children.

Feb 16, 2008 - 11:18 am Mark A. Flacy:

Ronald Reagan recognized the value of getting half a loaf when that’s all there was to get.

If we get to choose from a full loaf each time, maybe. If you half the loaf on each iteration, I’m left with a crumb.

Feb 16, 2008 - 11:22 am Harry:

Well, Steve, you are proving what I just said about leadership.

If you want people to vote for McCain, then you better start providing some reasons why. It is a whole lot better to win people over than try and coerce them. I suspect you are going to have a lot of people in your district telling you to kiss their you-know-what.

My own personal voting habit is that I try to vote for what I think is best for the country. I do not vote for the best for the Party. It is the Party’s responsibility to do what is best for the country. I have voted Republican all my life, because I have always believed that Republican values and my values were closely alligned. If they do not coincide, and it is beginning to look like they do not, then I have no problem looking for a party that will better represent my values.

These are Constitutional values. One votes for representative government. Each man has the freedom to vote as he wishes. Votes have to be earned. Also, only citizens vote, not illegal aliens.

Political power comes from the number of votes someone receives, and if you start telling people to take a hike and they do, their voting power does not diminish. They still have their one vote. It will be the Republican Party that has less political power.

Feb 16, 2008 - 11:26 am M. Vess:

Steve White wrote:

Loyalty works both ways. Now we need yours

Perhaps the McCain supporters should have explained this principle to their champion when he was co-sponsoring toxic legislation with Kennedy and Feingold; denouncing the Swift Boat veterans, covering for Dick Durbin and employing the talking points of the Left while denouncing fellow Republicans.

He might be doing a little better now if you had.

Feb 16, 2008 - 11:43 am Harry:

Mr. Puzzled. I appreciate your concern. I think we can commit some grievious errors by looking at this from the position of one issue. The leadership of the President affects the country in many ways.

Let us look at the one issue though. A serious problem for our country is that not everyone in the USA thinks that Islamic terrorism is a problem. Not only are we threatened from the outside, but there is a moral decay from the inside that also affects the issue. It is a moral problem because it literally puts people’s lives at risk.

Now, the solution is not to go to the Democrats. What they offer is not an adequate solution for the problem. In my opinion, the solution to the problem is to do a much better job of unifying the country that supports the effort in the Middle East, so that the country can resist the idiocy of the left. My point is that McCain is not the man for that job. One reason why is that he has alienated large portions of the Republican Party. That is a political reality.

Feb 16, 2008 - 11:49 am Curly Smith:

“last I heard there was a war on against Islamic Fascism”

Yep, and how do you fight an ideological war? You fight it with a better ideology. You fight Islamic Fascism with an ideology that comprises individual freedom, individual liberty, and individual rights. You don’t fight “Religious” Fascism with “Big Government” Fascism and it doesn’t matter if it’s Democratic Party Fascism or Republican Party Fascism as they’re equally abhorrent.

How do you sway minds away from the Islamists, where the Clerics tell them what to think, when your argument is Big Government Republicanism where Clerks tell them what to think? What is McCain-Feingold if not fascist? What is McCain’s Carbon Tax if not fascist? What is McCain’s attack on the wealthy/rich/successful if not fascist? Sure, the Democratic version is worse but that’s not an argument in favor of McCain or Big Government Republicanism. Rather, it demonstrates the fundamental disconnect between the Beltway Boys and the Founding Fathers. Is the argument “somebody is going to trample the Constitution so it’d better be our Party”?

What was it that Patrick Henry said? “Give me liberty or give me a slightly smaller nanny state”?

Feb 16, 2008 - 12:04 pm 1Banjo:

One last thing. That growth deforming McCain’s jaw is going to be a focus of the campaign. We’re not only giving the nomination to a loser, but a loser whose cancer might be back. So in summary: a cranky, sick old man who flies off the handle and is as much Democrat as he is Reublican vs a youthful, glamorous idol full of energy and good humor who has energized that party’s base as no one since JFK.

Feb 16, 2008 - 1:01 pm OmegaPaladin:

I understand your reluctance with McCain. However, I’m curious: Are most of the primary voters evil RINOs? How did McCain win despite your utter disgust with him? Is the primary system broken that it does not reflect the majority of the party?

In other words, what would keep this from happening again and again? Dynasties for your opponent can be awfully long.

I’d also wonder about your support for a candidate who supports amnesty strongly, cuts and runs when terrorist strike, cuts deals with terrorist sponsoring nations. His running mate is inconsistent on taxes and indecisive on Iraq. Yes, that’s Reagan and Bush-Sr if they were running today.

Feb 16, 2008 - 1:32 pm Mike D.:

America faces an historic fork in the road this November, with
real-world danger right around
every corner.

Its better for Republicans to hash out the qualities and faults of the probable nominee in February instead of October.

Feb 16, 2008 - 1:50 pm Mike D.:

America faces an historic fork in the road this November, with
real-world danger right around
every corner.

Its better for Republicans to hash out the qualities and faults of the probable nominee in February instead of October.

Feb 16, 2008 - 2:06 pm Chuck Pelto:

TO: Pam Meister, et al.
RE: Party or Principles?

“Will Republicans en masse put principle over party in November?” — Pam Meister

In the early 1980s, as a young captain of infantry assigned to Fort Carson, the installation watched, in awe, as the CINC FORSCOM relieved for cause the 3d Brigade Commander; a ‘water-walker’ colonel.

Why?

Because he had his ‘priorities’ bass-ackward.

The Republican Party is in a similar position today.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[If you have your priorities in their proper order, everything seems to fall into place by itself.]

Or, as some Wag put it, around 2000 years ago; You can serve either mammon or righteousness.

Feb 16, 2008 - 2:45 pm Harry:

OP,

Your question is one that I am wrestling with. Am I out of synch with the Republican Party? Or am I in synch, but due to outside interferences has the result of this primary been manipulated in some way?

While I am well aware that media influences can change perspectives, I reject the idea that the American people in the end vote for someone that they really do not want to vote for. So I am beginning to realize that I am probably too conservative for the Republican Party, which means that I have to look at my vote in a different way. I am probably going to be more of a protest voter rather than a Party voter because the Republican Party is not getting it done.

But let’s get down to the nitty gritty. I think that the positions that I take are common sense positions, and not nutty right wing stances as some would like to portay them.

For example, the illegal immigration problem. Why is this a problem? If a person is not a citizen of this country, why can we not toss their sorry butt out of the country? This is a legacy of politicians disrespecting our own laws. Corrollary: If we do not respect our laws, no one else will. I would point out that McCain’s position on this is contrary to mine, yet it is a problem with troubling repercussions, especially as this country is infiltrated with terrorists and criminal elements. Why are we letting Mexican officials violate our sovereignty? Why do Border Patrol personnel have to worry about their security? Will you contend that what I am saying here is not common sense? I am beginning to feel a large amount of disgust with politicians for their failure to do their duty.

Feb 16, 2008 - 3:07 pm Mr. Puzzled:

“In my opinion, the solution to the problem is to do a much better job of unifying the country that supports the effort in the Middle East, so that the country can resist the idiocy of the left. My point is that McCain is not the man for that job. One reason why is that he has alienated large portions of the Republican Party. That is a political reality.”

Thank you for your response, Harry. But now I am even more puzzled. You say you don’t want the Democrats to win, but from the primary season, it appears that McCain is the only Republican candidate with even a remote chance of defeating them. If we are talking about “political reality,”that seems already proven. So we are left with a simple question: were we ever serious about national security and winning the war against Islamofascism in the first place? If you don’t take that seriously, well, whether or not you support McCain is probably irrelevant. But if you do, then you might want think carefully of your priorities. As I said in my first comment, I am a lifetime conservative, but since I have children they are clear to me. I will support McCain fully.

Feb 16, 2008 - 3:36 pm Curly Smith:

OmegaPaladin asks: “Is the primary system broken that it does not reflect the majority of the party?”

If you take the info here:

Presidential Election of 2004, Electoral and Popular Vote Summary

and apply it to the 2008 Republican Primary Schedule, you’d find that the states involved so far awarded 175 Electoral Votes to Bush and 277 Electoral Votes to Kerry (of the 452 possible votes, 39% went to Bush and 61% went to Kerry).

Really, I just can’t imagine why a conservative didn’t rise to the top…

But, to answer your question, McCain is the candidate of the Party Elite, the candidate of Big Government Republicanism. BTW, the above is not meant to suggest in any way that Bush is a conservative.

Feb 16, 2008 - 3:44 pm Curly Smith:

Sorry, looks like I messed up the URL Link, http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922901.html

Feb 16, 2008 - 3:47 pm Dan:

I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary because her utopian fantasies can be rolled back at some future date but; once McCain erases the borders my nation is destroyed forever.

Feb 16, 2008 - 3:56 pm Dan:

Something is seriously wrong when the GOP candidate is decided by independents in states with open primaries and blue states that will not vote for the GOP candidate in the general election at any rate.

In their efforts to find someone liberal enough for their tastes they have straddled us with an unacceptable candidate who can not win in November.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:01 pm Tennwriter:

In 2006, the Libertarians were justifiably upset about the lack of fiscal responsibility of the Liberal RINO’s. So they led a walkout. Also, the RINOs campaigned under the banner of “We’re not as pathetic as the other guy.”

Republicans got shellacked.

Did the RINOs listen? Nope.

Now, the Social Conservatives, and the Libertarians, and a fair number of Moderates are leading a walkout. And the R party banner is “We’re not as bad as Hillary/Obama.”

The RINO’s say….

1. It will be different this time. See ‘Def. Insanity: Doing the same thing and expecting a different result.’

2. We can’t afford to let the Dems win because of Iraq. Well, I wonder how many of them were strong in the support as I have been. Two, actually, Iraq is largely won. Vietnam (where a victory was turned into defeat by Liberals) is not going to happen.

A. How do I know? I don’t “Know”. But I can guess from information. And thats what this all is. We roll the dice based on probabilities.

3. We can’t afford to win because the Dems might put in some horrible plan.

A. Like McCain isn’t going to do likewise with his feeble strength as he faces a Liberal senate, and has to horsetrade to keep on in Iraq. (and no, thats not a dichotochomy. Hillary isn’t going to leave Iraq, but the D’s might be willing to leave if they can pin the blame to the R’s.)

B. R’s are loyal and partisan. They would be more likely to fight Hillary on Plan Lib than McCain on the same Plan Lib. Its possible that more liberalism would get through under McCain than under Hillary.

C. Reagan after Carter, not Reagan after Whip Inflation Now Nixon. Sure, Carter’s bad legacy lasts until this present day. But despite Iranian problem, the Soviet problem, which Reagan solved was far greater. I’ll take Carter if I can get Reagan, and count myself lucky.

4. You ‘arch-conservatives’ aka normal conservatives are ideological purists, and you wouldn’t have liked Reagan. The Conservative Movement has moved forward. Back when Reagan was in charge, Conservatism had just started to come in from the cold. Conservative=Nazi was a commonplace. Nowadays “Liberal Fascism” hit no. 1 on Amazon. Nowadays, Conservatism has reclaimed most institutions but publishing, universities, and Hollywood.

Its reasonable to be more conservative nowadays. The country has moved vastly to the right.

We still have to compromise because this is politics. But a danse macabre with McCain is not on the playbill. A real compromise like Romney (who wasn’t very conservative) could have worked.

Which leads us to the final thing Liberals tell us…

5. You’re deranged, crazy, we just don’t care….this is the chorus of desperation. Listen to the tone. Conservatives are angry, and fatalistic. Liberals are biting their fingernails in rising fear as they realize they drastically miscalculated.

These insults are about power. They don’t want to admit they lost because that means they accept a lower place at the table. But, its in the nature of things for this to happen. Status in a party tends to trail actual power, but not forever.

This is a game of chicken. One side is frantically screaming insults, and the other side is coolly listing a bill of particulars, and has blood in its eye.

One has to admire the liberals. They play poker very well. With a pair of two’s they’ve managed to run things for a long time. They did this in part by threats to stay home. Granted, they’ve run things into the ground in the process. But its hard for even the most incompetent player to lose with a full house in his hand. So its time for the Three Legged Conservatives, for the Social Conservatives, for the Libertarians, and for the True Moderates to take the party back from the RINO Establishment.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:02 pm No Chance?:

Dan says “In their efforts to find someone liberal enough for their tastes they have straddled us with an unacceptable candidate who can not win in November.”

Real Clear Politics says:

Obama vs. McCain
Obama 47.7 McCain 44.0

Clinton vs. McCain
Clinton 45.4 McCain 47.0

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:28 pm Yehudit:

“….there were 14 million votes cast by Democrats, compared to only 8 million by Republicans, indicating a crisis of conscience among the GOP…..”

No, one of the election/poll experts (I think Jay Cost) says that in primaries Republicans always vote less than Dems but it doesn’t seem to affect the general.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:30 pm New Mexico:

A while back someone asked what there was good about McCain which we should vote for. Here are a few things:

1. McCain is strong on self defense and understands the dangers of Islamic fascism. Neither Democrat seems to understand this enemy. Based on his statements and actions, it is possible that Obama actually considers Western Civilization the enemy which must be defeated.

2. In the battle against Islamic Fascism, McCain understands that Israel is a strategic ally. The Democrats have not given any indication that they will stand up strongly for Israel.

3. McCain has promised to elect Supreme Court justices who interpret the law rather than legislate from the bench. At least two of our liberal judges have actually gone to Europe to see what their laws are so they can replace our constitutional laws with European laws into our country.

4. McCain is a genuine fiscal conservative who believes in tax cuts to stimulate the economy while simultaneously cutting government spending. One of the worst offenses of the Republicans over the last 8 years was complete fiscal irresponsibility on the spending side.

Now that I have met your challenge, for all those disgruntled self styled conservatives who intend to sit out this election, I have a challenge. Can you name the good conservative qualities which Clinton and Obama exhibit which lead you to claim that McCain is just the same as they are?

Also, someone said that he would vote if we would give him a Republican candidate of his choice. It appears that our Republican self styled super conservative wing is becoming as bad as the extreme left wing of the Democratic party with their conspiracy theories. Exactly who do you guys think chose McCain? Which “establishment” Republican moderate do you believe stuffed the ballots? People went to the polls and voted for the man they thought would be best for the country. A great many of those votes for McCain came from the areas surrounding military bases. I’m mystified who those establishment Republicans are who could force so many people to vote their way. It appears our self styled conservatives have developed an elitist attitude in which they are unwilling to accept the results of free and fair elections.

In fact, isn’t Rush Limbaugh the ultimate establishment Republican? If there is someone to blame, why shouldn’t the rest of us blame your guys for not giving us a better choice this year? With all their vast power, why didn’t Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and James Dobson get together and offer us a young charismatic conservative for the primaries?

Unfortunately as Rush Limbaugh himself admits, when people sit out elections their side becomes much weaker, not stronger. By the time Clinton or Obama are through with the country, there will be little left for the conservatives to try to pick up.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:37 pm Yehudit:

I predict that as Hillbama’s real policies become more known, the reluctant conservatives will hold their noses. I also predict that as McCain’s real record becomes known, some of their objections will disappear.

For example, McCain has a very good 20-yr record on reining in taxes.

He has always been against earmarks, sometimes publicly. Hilbama love them.

Anyone who says “…I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary because her utopian fantasies can be rolled back at some future date but; once McCain erases the borders my nation is destroyed forever….” (and I have heard this argument over and over) - there has never been any evidence that’s how it works. We are still paying for the mistakes of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton on foreign policy.

“her utopian fantasies can be rolled back at some future date but; once McCain erases the borders my nation is destroyed forever….”

The truth is exactly the opposite, because not only will Hilbama do exactly the same thing with the borders, they will institute tax and foreign policies that will be extremely hard to uproot. And that will hurt the country a lot more.

If Iraq becomes a bloodbath and Iran moves in and the US ends up signing off our sovereignty to the UN, and we are saddled with crippling federal programs and tax policies which make us less able to compete on the world markets, I will hold you purists responsible.

You ARE acting childish, because only children expect the world to be pure. Adults know that the real world is always shades of grey, and you have to pick the lightest shade you can. And if you don’t, you allow the darker shades to triumph.

Read this and send it to your friends. It has the actual facts.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:50 pm Dan:

No chance.

The split started when McCain won Super Tuesday- because McCain won Super Tuesday.

Feb 16, 2008 - 4:50 pm Yehudit:

“…They play poker very well. With a pair of two’s they’ve managed to run things for a long time. They did this in part by threats to stay home. Granted, they’ve run things into the ground in the process….”

So you want to ape them.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:05 pm Yehudit:

“….Fred Thompson will get my write in vote for President….”

Fred endorsed McCain. Fred wants you to vote for McCain. Fred recognizes that very serious issues facing our nation are at stake.

Also these scenarios of how the president would interact with the Congress, so ultimately Hillary would be better in the short term… these are speculations. Most of the time these tactics have not resulted in the desired outcome. Do you really think a Dem Congress and a Dem President will not push through anything they choose. Do you really think the great conservative revolution will rise up in 2010 and be able to reverse what happened in the meantime? How successful was Newt Gingrich?

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:13 pm Dan:

Independents and Democrats in states with open primaries are principally to blame; secondarily are the RINOs on blue states. How is it fair that people that are NOT republicans get to choose the GOP candidates? Fair elections my foot!

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:23 pm Yehudit:

Michelle Obama. Listen to the audio. Do you want her or Bill as First Spouse? Really.

Feb 16, 2008 - 5:35 pm Harry:

Mr. Puzzled,

I certainly do not want the Democrats to win. For that same reason, I will vote for McCain, as I mentioned above. My dilemma is a bit different as I am sharing it. I am sitting here wondering how much longer I can vote Republican. I confess that many of the above mentioned concerns are my concerns.

I wonder if McCain represents the will of the Republican Party, since several of the preliminary primaries were open, and in one Michelle Malkin reported that 3% of the voters were Democrats. (I am relying on my recall, so if I am wrong on this point, please disregard it.)

Now, there are those here evidently who question whether they can vote for McCain or not. I am not at that point, for the simple reason that I see too much at stake. But, I do not think that McCain is the man for the job.

In my mind, I am not asking for a do-over. Perhaps others want that. Part of being an American is accepting the outcomes of elections. That does not mean that I have to like them. I do not think the focus of this conversation is complaining and wishing for a do-over. I think there are a lot of people looking around, wondering who they will vote for, or if they will vote.

Feb 16, 2008 - 6:14 pm New Mexico:

Dan said:
“Independents and Democrats in states with open primaries are principally to blame; secondarily are the RINOs on blue states. How is it fair that people that are NOT republicans get to choose the GOP candidates? Fair elections my foot!”

You have a point here, however as I understand it the Republicans are the ones who decide how they will run their primaries in each state. If we don’t like the rules, we have the opportunity to change them before the next election. However, we have to remember that if we get too selective in who vote in the primaries, we might get candidates who we conservatives believe are perfect but who aren’t appealing to the majority of the country.

So far as I can tell, one of the problems in the elections was that at the end there were three people running and no one consistently received the majority of the votes since they were split three ways. I believe those people who are not happy with the results this time need to turn their energy in a positive direction and come up with a plan to avoid splitting the conservative votes between the Christian conservatives who voted more for the Huckster and those fiscal conservatives who went more for Romney. It seems that if the Huckster had given up when it was apparent he wouldn’t win perhaps people would have felt better with a head to head match up between Romney and McCain. However, I really don’t know how you can rig things to make a difference next time. That is a good project for those who are unhappy with the results of the primaries this time.

The only problem with the election I saw was the “winner takes all” strategy. Perhaps with more time Romney could have made himself better known to the electorate. He is clearly a brilliant man but it is my understanding that his public record is as liberal if not more liberal than McCain’s. Incidentally, how can those who sat out the recent congressional election and plan to sit out this presidential election call other people RINOs? I don’t follow the logic here. Some people work their hearts out for the Republican party to push the conservative agends even when things don’t go exactly their way and some people sit out elections. How can those who don’t vote claim to be the true Republicans or the true conservatives?

Feb 16, 2008 - 6:36 pm Yehudit:

Foreign policy advisors to Obama and Clinton were in Syria last week, talking peace and diplomacy with Baby Assad. When asked neither campaign would admit it. one of Obama’s advisors who was there is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was Carter’s Natl Security Advisor, resp for Camp David Accords, Iran, severing ties with Taiwan to please China, giving away the Panama canal.

“….Mr. Brzezinski himself issued a statement to the Baathist controlled press in Damascus, where he was quoted by the official Sana News Agency as saying that the “talks dealt with recent regional developments, affirming that both sides have a common desire to achieve stability in the region, which would benefit both its people and the United States.”….”

They are contravening US foreign policy while running for office. Pelosi did it too. All Dems.

Is that kind of thing worth the tradeoff with McCain’s border policy? Because I think that’s the dividing line between the people who stay home and the people who vote for McCain.

Feb 16, 2008 - 6:40 pm Larry_In_KY:

Because I use scripture below some here will scoff, but like many nations before, we are probably on verge of being seriously humbled.

I wish it were not so and I hope it will only take a few years instead of a few generations for we or our decendents to learn to not repeat our narcistic, rebellious and arrogant ways.

This nation has far too many blind “leaders” and from what I’ve read here and on many other blogs they have been and and will continue to be elected by blind followers.

LK 6:39 He also told them this parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?

Feb 16, 2008 - 7:57 pm Fatcat:

Re: Yehudit
“Michelle Obama. Listen to the audio. Do you want her or Bill as First Spouse? Really.”

Do you really want a Soros/Kerry backed McCain to be in the Whitehouse. aka the Reform Institute connection.

Better the Devil we know (Hitlery/Obama) then the Devil we don’t (or are not too sure of) McCain.

Feb 17, 2008 - 5:57 am ted goldman:

12-20 million Republican voters will be taking a “siesta” this November.

Tell Amnesty John McCain that’s sitting on our butts.

Feb 17, 2008 - 7:24 am Tennwriter:

Yehudit,
I absolutely agree that the perfect is the enemy of the good. I also agree with getting half a loaf.

I liked Duncan Hunter with 96% agreement. Fred! looks pretty good indeed. Huckabee has some problems, but I think many of them are exzaggerated by elitist snobs. Romney is a basic Northeasterner type who is smart enough to realize he has to be the candidate of the whole party, and is willing to work at it. Maybe I could have voted for Guiliani if he made a whole bunch of ‘Read My Lips’ promises.

This is not the standpoint of a purist. So let us put that charge of purist to rest like the inaccuracy it is.

John McCain has delighted in poking a stick in the eye of conservatives for decades. He’s obstinate on all the wrong issues, and soft on most of the right. And he will probably lack the power to do anything good except to do what Hillary or probably Obama would do anyways.

Even still, I could vote for a man who despises me and mine. Really. Unfortunately, he’d have to agree to a list about twenty items long which would include things like putting in Edith Jones and other orginilist judges who would almost certainly overturn his prize legislation–McCain-Feingold Incumbency Protection Act as the unconstitutional infringement on free speech that it is.

Right now, he’s Rehoboam. His advisers are telling him…”The people complain about how hard they have it. You go out there and tell them ..my father whipped you with whips, but I will whip you with scorpions.”

He’s proud.

And he’s running into the most principled, and hardnosed element in American politics. Conservatives, like anyone, prefer power. But its power for a purpose. Without a purpose, power is pointless. RINO’s–not so much in any of that.

I suspect the ‘purist’ label could more accurately apply to the liberal RINOs.

And yes, I’m aping the RINOs. This is a game of chicken. I’d like to say that reason and discussion were the dominant factors here, but its not. This is about power.

Its not even about electability. Bush Sr. in his second go, Dole, 2006 congressional elections….

RINO’s lose.

Conservatism with a bold fearless touch, and a smile wins.

Its nice to be there. Not only is the right thing the right thing, its also the more successful thing on several levels.

You call us childish. I could say what I said earlier, and admit to being childish, and ask you, the adult what you’re going to do to fix things.

Or I could simply say that one of the key aspects of childishness is a short time horizon. Conservatives are looking at a longer time horizon than most of the RINO’s. If we can get the party reformed, then we can make enough repairs to the situation to overcome the damage the Dem did (and this is not the same as undoing the Dem damage. Reagan did not undo Carter, but Reagan did win the Cold War which is vastly better than the damage Carter did.).

And what if the RINO’s are truly so filled with snobbery that they won’t bend? Well, then its time to leave the Republican Party anyways. If Liberal purists refuse to compromise then fine.

The Conservatives by the grace of the Lawgiver gave them thirty years of victory. We are not obligated to give them one more. And it were well that the poison in their souls be allowed out for all the world to marvel at.

Those who are not so poisoned, who don’t see Conservatives as the problem, I would welcome. I’ve proven my willingness to compromise. But compromise is a two way street.

Yehudit, you would do well to look to the others on your side, and ask them….Why will you not bend?

Feb 17, 2008 - 1:39 pm Yaakov Watkins:

The purpose of voting is to chose who will be the best for the country. McCain has yet to demonstrate that he is better (for conservative goals) than Hillary.

If McCain, an imitation conservative, wins, we will have to take responsibility for the failures of someone who, like the imitation conservative Bush, will propose and implement policies we abhor.

Feb 17, 2008 - 6:51 pm Mark Stewart:

I want the 10th amendment enforced.

I want competitive federalism.

I want Americans to take responsibility for their own lives.

I don’t want my money taken from me and spent on drug giveaways to baby boomers or on bailing out airlines.

I don’t want my money spent on the global warming hoax.

I want campaign finance rules that violate the 1st amendment thrown out.

Because of these issues, I WANT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE TO LOSE. That is the only way to have ANY CHANCE of fixing the above problems in future elections.

Right now, the GOP is populated by corrupt incumbents that are virtually indistinguishable from the Democrats on EVERY DOMESTIC ISSUE. Those GOP incumbents must be thrown out. The only way to achieve that now appears to be their defeat in a general election.

The Democrats will run this country into the ground. There is no doubt about that. However, we will survive them, and by doing so, have an opportunity to elect people who give a damn in 2010 and 2012.

I consider the current GOP establishment liberals (what you call ‘moderates’) to be as much my enemy as Hillary Clinton.

I dislike, easily to the point of burning white hot seething hatred, the RINOs that have shifted this party to the left.

Lose and lose BIG.

Then move to France.

Feb 18, 2008 - 5:54 am K. McCann:

Will America recognize the fundamental problems with Socialism if it hits them harder and faster with a Democrat in office? Will we be able to recover faster? Will we recover? I don’t know. Search Eco-Socialism or incremental socialism; you will see our arguments are not getting through. The 100 year march to the Progressive Socialist Democrat way and its Spiral of Control is well on its way. McCain is proof of that. We need to regroup. We need to reword our principles so they are understood in this modern world. We use words like socialism as if they think that’s a bad thing. Short sightedness and corruption has infected our party. I don’t know how to vote.

Feb 18, 2008 - 6:46 am RE:

K McCann

I too am confused. When we have to fight tooth and anilk over the concept of borders and the difference between ‘legal’ and ‘illegal’, something is very, very wrong at a very fundamental level.

So the question conservatives are faced with is “Which flavor of corruption do you want to support?”.

I’m not surprised that many are choosing ‘neither’.

Feb 18, 2008 - 8:23 am Yehudit:

“The perfect is the enemy of the good.”

If we have suicide bombings here or a bloodbath in Iraq or high taxes which hurt business so much that our standard of living goes down and we are even less able to compete…. YES I will blame you purists. You KNOW McCain is not the same as Hilbama, even if he doesn’t live up to all your standards.

We can’t afford 4 yrs of them, and your plans to regroup are probably not going to happen. How many Dem presidents only served one term? Carter. You’re talking 8 years instead of 4, and then they will have an incumbent.

We can’t afford it.

“All that is necessary for evil is that good men do nothing.”

Feb 18, 2008 - 9:35 am Darrell:

Like it or not we are stuck with John McCain as the Republican Candidate for President. I have agreed with McCain on a couple of issues like the need to remain on offense on the War on Terror, & his consistent rejection of Pork Spending. McCain & Romney’s speech at CPAC both highlighted national security and emphasized the necessity to maintain the offensive in Iraq and throughout the War on Terror. For this reason alone I will be voting against the Democratic nominee in November, though I honestly feel that with John McCain as our standard bearer we will be looking at either a President Hillary or Obama this time next year, likely with big majorities in both the House and Senate as well.

Feb 18, 2008 - 9:54 am RE:

What consequences should there be for a politican’s bad behavior?

Or is that as long as there is someone worse around, people should look the other way, pretend the problems and deficiencies don’t exist, and do nothing to correct them?

And should one’s apprehensions come to fruition will that person be dismissed with a contemptuous ‘Well, you voted for him’. I expect that that will be the case for those of us who have to hold our noses in the voting booth.

The GOP only wants lemmings. But to be fair, the same is true of Dems.

Feb 18, 2008 - 1:15 pm Marc:

When was the last time there was a “perfect” conservative candidate? Once again, the majority of those who are against McCain spout emotional diatribes not based in fact. The fact is he has an 82% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union. Look up his voting record:
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

For all those against illegal immigration, the last president who offered amnesty was Reagan. Even if we do “throw all of them out” we’ll be faced with a labor shortage the likes of which we have never seen. American history is rife with anti-immigration, it goes with the territory of being a place where others want to be.

Feb 18, 2008 - 2:32 pm

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