192 Comments

1. Pajamas Media » The Pope is Right on Condoms, AIDS and Africa:

[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:38 am 2. Mike McNally:

Fine piece Andrew.

Via NRO’s The Corner I found this review of ‘Rethinking AIDS Prevention: Learning from Successes in Developing Countries’, by Edward C Green, who Andrew references in his piece. Green is a senior research scientist at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, and he has also come to the conclusion that plane-loads of condoms are not the answer to Africa’s AIDs crisis:

http://www.nationalreview.com/books/sylva200404301423.asp

Unfortunately Green and others who think like him are up against an international development industry run in large part by liberals and leftists, whose hedonist mindset dictates that the path to happiness and self-fulfillment involves having as much sex with as many different partners as possible. They want to spread their sexual revolution, along with the rest of their secular values, to every corner of the globe, along with the myth that as long as you use a condom, promiscuity and irresponsibility have no consequences. And the last thing they want is for more Africans to embrace – horror of horrors – religious values.

God knows Africa has enough problems without having the morality of Western liberals inflicted on it.

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:16 am 3. TC:

“I had no problem when commentators took swipes at him for lifting the ex-communication of the Holocaust-denying Bishop Richard Williamson. As near as I can tell, the Vatican didn’t do their homework on that one.”

It’s actually not a requirement of the Catholic Church to believe the validity (or non-validity) of historical world events (that aren’t related to Christ). For the Church to keep someone excommunicated (an extremely grave situation) because he or she doesn’t believe there was a concerted effort on the Nazi’s part to kill all the Jews–it would be failing the Church itself (or to prevent a person re-entry into the Church based on a fear that it would cause some drama in the media since the guy has a crazy theory on historical events). However, for him to be allowed a position of leadership within the Church (Bishop), considering his views on the holocaust, that would be scandalous. Those are two separate issues. The media or politics don’t get to dictate who’s allowed to be Catholic and who isn’t.

The world media did the same thing to Pope Benedict for a snippet of a speech he made in Germany awhile ago when he read a quote from a discussion in relation to Islam, violence and forced conversion (if I remember correctly). The man is a brilliant theologian, but listening to how the media reported the speech–you’d be under the impression the Pope was calling all muslims raging, lunatic jihadists.

For this current condom scandal, doncha know that Africans can’t be expected to show restraint when it comes to sex? They just can’t help themselves, even for the sake of their health and the health of their loved ones? Even if they’re educated on what AIDS is and why it happens, they’ll still run wild having sex all over the place. It’s all poor black people do, they’re so poor and ignorant that it’s all the joy and comfort they have. They have to have condoms or they’ll all die from AIDS and for anyone to suggest otherwise (ie. the Pope), they’re out of touch and cruel and want all black people to die. (**SARCASM**).

OF COURSE abstinence is the safest, most surest protection against AIDS that all people can empower themselves with–all income levels can afford it, understand it and practice it flawlessly. But because the Pope has this hope for the people of Africa, and the faith in them to practice it, it’s something to be mocked and derided.

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:43 am 4. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Andrew Klavan, et al.
RE: Why the Umbrage?

“The Pope deserves no credence,” said the editors of the New York Times. “Impeach the Pope,” wrote College Professor Robert S. McElvaine in the Washington Post. The Pope is “horrifically ignorant,” said feminist journalist Bonnie Erbe. — Andrew Klavan, citing various ‘columnists’

I’ll tell you why.

It has nothing to do with AIDS, per se. Rather, it’s the message of abstinence they object to.

At this time there is a full-court press against teaching abstinence regarding sex education. I witnessed it at a city-county health department presentation last week.

Mention ‘abstinence’ in a positive manner and get ‘whacked’.

They’ll drag out all kinds of interesting charts that show their programs work. However, when you ask to see the raw data, the primary research that shows their programs work better than abstinence….

….oddly enough, they haven’t been collecting ANY data. But, in the same breath, they’ll demand that anyone who comes to the table MUST bring THEIR ’scientifically proven’ data with them.

So if the Pope, or anyone else, can prove that abstinence is effective against the spread of HIV/AIDS, then it will also prove that abstinence will work in preventing teenage pregnancy. So anyone with THAT information has to be demonized to the extreme. ESPECIALLY if they are right.

And, in this instance, the Pope IS right.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Science is Truth! Don't be misled by facts.]

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:55 am 5. vivo:

“First of all, the Pope is a religious leader not a doctor.”

“In other words, a moral approach to sex works and condoms without morality simply don’t.”

The moral approach is fine, but if infected people are going to have sex, condoms are in order. I rather drive a car with bumpers than one without . . .

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:11 am 6. Margaret Evans:

Andrew, I’m not a Catholic either, but the more I read of Pope Benedict’s writings – and the church’s teachings on most any subject  – the less I’m sure I’ll never become one! If one reads it with an open heart and mind, the Church’s view on how to promote human thriving and happiness makes more sense than anything else out there. But, sadly, it’s anathema to contemporary common wisdom. This latest uproar against the Pope’s statement on condoms in Africa – which, and this SHOULD be obvious, is couched in basic morality and plain ol’ common sense – is just one more example of how far we’ve strayed from reality.

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:12 am 7. RightwingHippyChick:

Why is everyone trying to tell African Catholics what to believe in? It’s a core part of their religion to to not have premarital sex, and in marriage, sex only happens to procreate, anything else is sinful.

If those Catholics don’t like this and want to fornicate(condom or not), they can change their religion to something more suitable for them.

The Pope being out of date due to being Catholic is a totally different thing and
I notice that the do-gooders are not exactly falling over themselves to press the mullahs and witchdoctors of Africa on child marriage and polygamy, nor is there any Atheist charity to look after the prostitutes in Africa (who are the main vectors) — nops, this is left to the Catholics who then get harangued by lazy racist whingers who want to tell Africans what they ought to believe in but who don’t want to get their hands dirty themselves… but just enjoy sharpening their idle tongues on those that actually do something useful.

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:38 am 8. Paul -Indiana:

Here in the USA blacks refuse to use condoms. Why do you think that any available condoms will be used by African males? Abstinence is the only sure way to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:07 am 9. Valerie:

Typical of Libs/Lefties to never see the forest for the trees. Without self-control and discipline, all is lost.

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:12 am 10. elvis:

Abstinence works every time it’s tried.

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:15 am 11. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Apparently….

“The moral approach is fine, but if infected people are going to have sex, condoms are in order.” — vivo

….vivo has yet to discover that condoms are not 100% effective.

So. What do you tell the person who trusted a condom to protect them from this dread disease when they discover they now have it?

“Sorry”?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.]

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:52 am 12. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. I wonder how willing vivo would be to have sex with someone who has AIDS and all that were between them and having one-foot-in-the-grave was a thin piece of latex…..

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:54 am 13. Marie Claude:

the problem is that the condom serves quit a few times, hey in Africa, one can’t afford to trow used stuffs into the bin like we do

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:16 am 14. HardHeadedWoman:

Great article and I agree. The left’s insistence on sex ed in schools and particularly sex ed without talking about abstinence has resulted in an epidemic of STDs and out of wedlock pregnancies amongst teenagers. Their way of dealing with the consequences are abortion and blaming conservatives, “Christianists” and anyone with a moral compass for impeding development of miracle drugs to prevent AIDs and other STDs.

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:32 am 15. dave:

This post has great wisdom. The point is, if you trust only the thin latex between HIV and life, you are closer to HIV than you think. And you are more a fool than you know.

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:36 am 16. Delia:

There’s a wonderful thing called masturbation [yeah I went there]. Maybe THAT should be ‘taught’ more in schools without the ’shame’ and ‘embarrassment’ onus.

It’s a genital jungle out there… Sex isn’t the end all, be all thing it’s made out to be. Ha!

We’ve had condoms for how many years now? -And yet…STD’s are as rampant as ever.

Hmmmmm.

Just google images of herpes and genital warts. …The stuff of nightmares. *shiver*

Mar 19, 2009 - 6:34 am 17. Robert Hurley:

If condoom can save one life they should be used. There is no contradiction between advocating enhancing the humanization of human sexuality and using condom. It is a false dicotomy

Mar 19, 2009 - 7:04 am 18. Tina Trent:

Sure, Benedict’s critique of the cultural relativism status quo is not warm and fuzzy. He writes like a German post-structuralist, even when he’s criticizing post-structuralism. But he is walking an extraordinary tightrope and doing it with compassion and intelligence. Last European, indeed. But as this Pope revives the tradition of intellectual predominance, it becomes glaringly clear that the Church’s systematic exclusion of women from intellectual vocations — for which there is no scriptural justification, only sloppy submission to the Church’s worst manifestations of internal politics and knee-jerk disdain for females by certain well-placed subcultures — weakens his urgent efforts to articulate the difference between Catholicism and radical Islam, West and East. The Church needs a new female figurehead — a (non-dictator hobnobbing), intellectual Mother Teresa to Benedict’s cerebral papacy.

Mar 19, 2009 - 7:07 am 19. FHCalcio:

“Why is everyone trying to tell African Catholics what to believe in? It’s a core part of their religion to to not have premarital sex, and in marriage, sex only happens to procreate, anything else is sinful.”

RWHC: sex does not only happen to procreate…The Catholic Church teaches that a married couple need only be open to the possibility of the transmission of life; the marriage act can be to unify or procreate; it does not have to be reserved just for procreation. The couple, in a state of matrimony, need ONLY be OPEN to the transmission of life; i.e. a couple may (and should! ) have sex but should the woman conceive the parents will raise the child together and instruct the child in the faith since parents are responsible for the souls of their children.

That is one major (perhaps THE main) reason why the Church is against homosexual sex and premarital sex; the former closes off any possibility of the transmission of life, hence the act homosexuals participate in is intrinsically disordered (although homosexuals and unmarried heterosexuals BOTH are called to celibacy); the latter does not, but sex is reserved, in the teaching of the Church, for a married couple; sex signifies a bond that, for unmarried people, does not exist.

Please understand that the above comment is in no way a detailed, synthesized explanation; it’s a rather brief paraphrase of a much larger piece.

Mar 19, 2009 - 7:36 am 20. Delia:

Condoms may stave off aids [if the person using them even knows how] but…

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2264/do-condoms-protect-against-stds-other-than-hiv

…Herpes and genital warts can still be contracted via [to use a crude term] “bumping uglies”, condom or not. HPV [Human Papiloma Virus] is directly linked to cervical cancer [via certain strains] in women and therefore IS a life threatening disease.

What is it going to take for people to learn to have some self-restraint? Does an STD that causes a man’s penis and testicles to rot off need to happen for people to grow up?

Sheesh!

Mar 19, 2009 - 8:11 am 21. Score One For The Pope « Jim Blazsik:

[...] Read more [...]

Mar 19, 2009 - 8:17 am 22. paul_unalaska:

FHCalcio, thank you for your #19 comment. Being intimate for procreation only circumstances isn’t taught i nthe Catholic church.

I believe that mindset is more inline with those ‘Christian’ churches. Whereas the leader of that church, usually a recovered alcoholic and or drug addict, and theor disciples are those recently correcting their addictions. Now those churches are dangerous.

Sadly, Africa will will never right the ship. I work in West Africa during the monsoon season each year and see it firsthand.

As long as Africa’s people continue its pitiful state (which apparently is working. Obama wants to double peace corps, relief aid. That’s a heck of a lot more Unicef, UN soccer jerseys, medical care, dry goods, etc.,), the more the world leaders WON’T call upon its country leaders to actually LEAD! Instead, apathy is increased moreso and Africa is forever in hand-out mode.

Mar 19, 2009 - 8:33 am 23. Your Boss:

The ABC program, implemented in Uganda, sought to reduce AIDS rates by reducing promiscuity. It’s had considerable success because it attacked the source of the problem – behavior.

Delia;

Self restraint will be practiced more widely when casual encounters are condemned by the majority of people. Unfortunately, sex ed in school does not teach any CONTEXT – like when it is appropriate to indulge and when it is not. In addition, our pop culture sends out some very irresponsible messages. Equally, as consumers we do not help the situation by patronizing movies like Sex and the City.

Mar 19, 2009 - 8:59 am 24. deguello:

The pope is right!Let’s suppress birth control; the more humans breed recklessly to help create catastrophe, poverty,ignorance, and unhappiness,the greater the need to turn to religion,and recoup your loss of faithful( ex brainwashed suckers),who have abandoned virulent superstitions in the USA and Europe.Let the obsolete old fool patronize the poor and desperate:it makes him feel relevant!

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:00 am 25. Big Leo:

Soooo…. how many people who attack the Pope on this would have sexual intercourse with someone they knew had AIDS? Any hands? None? All righty then.

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:10 am 26. YeeHa:

Deguello;

Most of the countries with over population aren’t Catholic. Try again.

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:14 am 27. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Robert Hurley
RE: Sooooo…..

If condoom can save one life they should be used. — Robert Hurley

….maybe YOU can answer the question I asked of vivo in item #11 of this thread.

Additionally, let’s do some compare and contrast.

How do you feel about the death penalty? And if you oppose it, is it because one INNOCENT person might be accidentally executed?

So if you opposed the death penalty because of that, why do you use the opposite argument about condoms? Because, if we kill a confirmed murderer, we’re preventing said murderer from escaping and killing again.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Of the late years, wealth has made us greedy, and self-indulgence has brought us, through every form of sensual excess, to be, if I may put it, in love with death both individual and collective. -- Livy]

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:21 am 28. JournalJim:

GREAT line: “I guess this is why the pope gets to wear the big hat.”
I loved it. Abstinence and monogamy with a non-infected mate works 100% of the time. What about that doesn’t get through to condom pushers?
Not to get too religious here, but thank God for Andrew Klavan!

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:24 am 29. Delia:

22. Your Boss:

“In addition, our pop culture sends out some very irresponsible messages. Equally, as consumers we do not help the situation by patronizing movies like Sex and the City.”
~

I agree and guess who the majority of people in control of our media and Hollyweird are in? We the people can’t even FORCE the media to be ‘fair and balanced’.

BTW, “Sex and the City” is something I never watched. My husband and I jokingly refer to that show as “Sluts in the city.”

Some stats:
http://www.avert.org/stdstatisticsworldwide.htm

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:36 am 30. Bender:

Let’s call the push for condoms what it is –

Imperialism.

It is nothing less than the Left wanting to go back to the days of African colonialism and imposing their own materialistic and hedonistic values on those backward brown peoples.

Phoebe Natanson of ABC News is reporting –

No Controversy in Cameroon Over Pope’s Condom Stance

Most Catholics in Yaounde I spoke to seemed to have no problem with the pope’s comments on AIDS. Speaking to the press en route to Cameroon from Rome Tuesday, the pope said that condoms were not a solution and on the contrary increased the problem of AIDS.

Mbah, who works with women groups in parishes across the country, said, “Abstinence is the only way to stop the spread of AIDS. It works! We must first teach the children the importance of abstinence so that they abstain from premarital sex and then teach them the importance of fidelity in marriage.”

Nigerian businessman Charles Noikwonfu, who traveled from southern Cameroon to see the pope, also said that “condoms are not a solution.”

“They do not stop the spread of HIV,” he said. “The only solution is a solid partnership.”

Africans are not children. They know about condoms, and if they wanted them, they would have them. So the Left needs to quit treating them like children and quit their imperialistic paternalism of shoving condoms on them.

Mar 19, 2009 - 9:47 am 31. fred:

The Pope said nothing, as far as I can tell, about the clinical practicality of condoms in situations where a monogamous couple does have a situation where one of them is infected. Children sometimes do inherit the infection from the mother and the child could be a carrier. The child should not have to forego normal relations later in life with a married partner, which means that condoms are in order. Or if one of them had been a drug addict and was infected that way. Condoms are part of the solution, but are not THE solution. I happen to think the Pope was right about what he said: an attitudinal and moral change is in order, and not just in Africa. And abstinence is also part of the solution. Living one’s life as one big romp with many multiple partners along the way is a morally revolting way to live, however de rigeur it is with many in an atmosphere of physicalist reductionism and hedonism.

I’m sure on this thread we’ll see the usual cast of characters dropping in to bash the Pope about this one. It is to be expected. People can choose how to live their lives, but it takes maturity and introspection to live more than an unexamined life.

Mar 19, 2009 - 10:17 am 32. John Galt:

Of course the left is going to condemn the Pope’s remarks.

The reason is obvious.

If they do not then are publicly admitting by their silence or approval of his remarks that they

1. Support immoral activities
2. Are immoral themselves for engaging in such actitivities
3. Or both 1 and 2 above.

The left by taking the condom approach to reducing the AIDS problem is saying that the actions like drugs, wanton sex etc that are the major causes of aids are okay activities for people to participate in. It is just that people who do these activities need to take more cautionary steps before participating in these activities but the actual activities are okay.

To admit that the Pope is correct and not to condemn his remarks is tacit admitance that these activities engaged in primarily by the left are immoral and therefore the people who do them are immoral.

No way that the left will ever admit either of those two things.

Mar 19, 2009 - 10:21 am 33. Marie Claude:

I remember stories some African countries were still our colonies, the Africans had not our taboos concerning sex, even catholicised, they had sex experiences at the age it was socially reprimed by us, one of my highschool friend went to be a teacher there, and she was horrified to see so many pregnant girls at the age of 15. There was no AIDs at this time, so Imperialism or not that’s only words, people are quick to make a judgement about a situation they don’t know.

Pope is fidel in his discourse, and certainly didn’t hit the majority of the Africans, but an elite. To tell these populations to not use condoms it’s condamning them to disappear earlier.

If you happened to speak to western expats that have or hold businesses in Africa, they will tell you that the majority of their staff is contamined.

What is emergence there is to allow more protections and education on how to have safe sex

Mar 19, 2009 - 10:52 am 34. Frank:

I don’t see why the popes advice can’t be taken in conjunction with condoms. Denying condoms is just irresponssible. CONDOMS SAVE LIVES. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT’S MORAL; GIVE THEM SOME FRIGGING CONDOMS

Mar 19, 2009 - 10:52 am 35. Frank:

John Galt:

Explain to me how promoting the use of condoms is an endorsement of sharing needles or smoking meth? Here, I’ll answer that for you: It isn’t.

Mar 19, 2009 - 10:54 am 36. Phil Onochie:

I am a 29 year old catholic and the way the media spins what the pope says, you would think that there are only a handle of people who adhere to Church teachings. I live in DC which is highly populated with adults in there 20s and 30s who understand the value of abstinence and see it as a way to counter the sexual revolution which in our opinion has led to more diseases, more children out of wedlock, more abortions and more democrats.

Oh..and I am born and raised African. So I applaud that the pope is reaffirming the Africans in their beliefs..which is part of Natural Law.

Mar 19, 2009 - 11:31 am 37. Phil Onochie:

Frank: condoms promotes promiscuity whether you choose to admit it or not. With promiscuity you open the door to everything else under the sun as I stated above. Can you tell a teenager or even an adult that once they wear condoms, they will become invincible? No. The message thereafter is, “Just be careful” Is that responsible? To live life tiptoeing on shells? Peace of mid is gotten by telling somebody that it is definitely not worth the headaches of wondering if somebody has STD or not when you engage in sexual acts with them. It is human nature to think that once we have something like the condom that has been purported to eliminate risks, then we are invincible.

So, what is the argument for somebody who as AIDS and tries to pressure a woman to sleep with him? Should he say, “well, I have condoms! Don’t worry, it is guaranteed not to pass to you once I wear it” Are condoms that safe?

I would prefer to exercise wisdom and tell the young lady to abstain from such physical contact with the man. My point is, if condoms are safe enough to guarantee no transmission of diseases then just as a disease free man is free to have sex with a disease free woman, then a man who has AIDS should also be free to have sex with a disease free woman..because it’s safe.

See the contradiction?

Mar 19, 2009 - 11:45 am 38. Leatherneck:

I do agree with the Pope on his remarks for Africa. However, I would like him to get Mexico, and south America a lot of condoms, or he can pick up the tab at our hospitals for the anchor babies.

Also, I would like the Pope to tell folks to stop worshiping Mary. She was fully human, she is dead, and can not hear your prayers. She is not co-Regent with Christ.

Thank you.

Mar 19, 2009 - 11:52 am 39. Sherab Zangpo:

Thank you Mr. Klavan, this column is an important ingredient of a possible de-brainwashing therapy.
And I want to highlight two very well aimed sentences:

“Benedict…He is the Last European, the last man to truly understand the ideas that formed the foundation of Europe’s greatness. When he leaves, they may have to turn off the lights of the continent.”

SO VERY TRUE.
I find myself compelled to quote from his Encyclical Letters all the time.

“To liberals, it seems that even AIDS is better than the scourge of morality.”

At first I laughed, but then I realized that this very well written sentence is a powerful alarm bell.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Mar 19, 2009 - 12:08 pm 40. Utopia Parkway:

So let me get this straight.

If a pill that cured AIDS was invented tomorrow infected people should only be allowed to have it if they sign an abstinence guarantee?

Condoms are part of an effective plan against AIDS. If AIDS were transmitted by shaking hands and not by sex I doubt the pope would be against distributing latex gloves.

Mar 19, 2009 - 12:10 pm 41. Ms. Attitude:

34. Frank: “I don’t see why the popes advice can’t be taken in conjunction with condoms. Denying condoms is just irresponssible. CONDOMS SAVE LIVES. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT’S MORAL; GIVE THEM SOME FRIGGING CONDOMS.”

Frank, if a person can’t afford to get their own condoms they shouldn’t be having sex!!!

Mar 19, 2009 - 12:24 pm 42. Gin789:

I agree with the Pope. God made sex for procreation not recreation. If you are not trying to procreate then you should do without. That is the safest way even a moran can understand that.

Mar 19, 2009 - 12:31 pm 43. Glenn Kenny:

Man, you 9/11 bedwetters crack me up. It’s not enough for you to shriek about Islamofascists crawling out of your wives’ blouses, you’ve got to fall into lockstep with every reactionary, destructive, ignorant position espoused by some paste-eater like Kathryn Jean Lopez to boot. Good luck with that.

Mar 19, 2009 - 12:42 pm 44. Rob:

People who engage in high risk sex are morons. Answer the following; Would you engage in sex if it first required playing a round of Russian Roulette? Under those circumstances, I think most reasonable people would conjure up the willpower to abstain. Actually, a piece of cake.

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:01 pm 45. Jack:

All the experts agree with the pope.

The media is full of crap…. but that of course is NOT news.

http://heyitsjustablogman.blogspot.com/2009/03/condom-corporations-kill-you-for-your.html

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:08 pm 46. Stevo:

There’s a reason the Catholic Church is virtually the only christian church which hasn’t changed its position on contraception (ever). Prior to 1930 every single christian denomination taught that contraception is a sin. The mainstream “decrimalisation” of contraception led to the sexual revolution, radical feminism, and all that stuff. Its never been the pope’s job to figure out the best thing for the church to teach, only to safeguard the revelation that has been handed down to us through the ages. So don’t expect any big policy shifts anytime soon!

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:13 pm 47. Richard:

Hey, sorry to intrude on your dogma, but the simple fact is that sex is fun and people like having it. Last I checked, most Catholics (or people of any other religion) aren’t Catholic because they took a survey of world religions and picked it. No, they were born into it and had it inculcated into them, just like most people who have religious denomination ‘X’ pasted onto their life story. It still won’t stop them from figuring out that sex is fun and they like having it. People are going to have sex no matter what kind of dogma you scream at them and no matter what kind fear you try to instill in them. Given the reality that they are going to have sex, they should be having sex with a condom. Conservatives need to emphasize that their sexual choices are just that — their own choice. Stop trying to tell other people what their choices should be in such a ham-handed way and denying them the choices you don’t like and you’ll maybe get a little more respect from the average person when you bring up the subject of abstinence. Until then, expect people to snigger and laugh at you and go “yeah, right!” as soon as you’re out of earshot. Until then, you should be promoting the use of condoms at the very least.

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:14 pm 48. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Ms. Attitude, et al
RE: Frank…

….misses the point, altogether. And probably deliberately too.

To him, morals and God are thinks you make up as you go along.

He’s a god unto himself.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[I am the lord my god. Thou shalt have no other god before ME! -- atheist's first commandment]

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:18 pm 49. Margaret Evans:

“Condoms are part of an effective plan against AIDS. If AIDS were transmitted by shaking hands and not by sex I doubt the pope would be against distributing latex gloves.”
– Utopia Parkway:

Bravo, Utopia! You get it. Yes, the Pope IS opposed to people engaging in sex outside of marriage – especially promiscuous sex with multiple partners. He is actively discouraging that behavior, not just because it leads to infection and unwanted pregnancy, but because he believes it is fundamentally disordered – not in the best interest of the individual or society. It IS an issue of morality. He doesn’t pretend otherwise just to get people like you “on board.”

Andrew Klavan put it best: “To liberals, it seems that even AIDS is better than the scourge of morality.”

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:19 pm 50. Marie Claude:

to the lesson of moral givers, Swaziland is an exemple, perhaps a report is on TV tonight, 56 % of the population is infected, it is forecasted that in 20 years, Swaziland’s population is done.

I am not saying that abstinence isn’t the goal where this population should tend for, it’s too late, only a serious medecine cure can manage that some remains of these people will still survive.

Funny the people that make money on the Zwazilanders are evangelical preachers that promise them to re-gain sane with their sermons, and their money

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:36 pm 51. Marie Claude:

with their sermons and the money that the people let go in preachers’pockets

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:40 pm 52. mtm:

LEATHERNECK:
Get your anti catholic facts straight. Nobody worships Mary. She is fully human and she is in heaven with God.

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:44 pm 53. Karo:

In fact, the author does not care about the people in Africa but about “morality”. You don’t have to be a liberal to find this sick. Condoms save lives, every day – got it?!

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:59 pm 54. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: The Frank and Marie Show

It’s pretty obvious to even the most casual Christian that Frank and Marie would be a hit talk show team in the time of Noah.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Once more, I shall shake the Earth....]

Mar 19, 2009 - 1:59 pm 55. Pseudo-Polymath » Blog Archive » The Danger of Quote and Context:

[...] didn’t expect that their might be context surrounding the remarks. A fuller quotation (from here): “If the soul is lacking, if Africans do not help one another, the scourge cannot be resolved by [...]

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:05 pm 56. Marie Claude:

chucky I need a teleprompter, would you be kind to be mine

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:05 pm 57. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: Teleprompers?

chucky I need a teleprompter, would you be kind to be mine — Marie Claude

Say again? You’re coming across garbled and stupid. [Note: Standard Radio-Telephone Operator (RTO) terminology for 'are you confused or worse?']

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.]

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:23 pm 58. satyrical:

Andrew, I think you ignore an elephant in the room in this case: The problem is not the Pope’s speech by itself, but the fact that it reinforces a Vatican policy against Condoms which continues to be counterproductive. One doesn’t spell ABC without C

Here I quote from Süddeutsche Zeitung, a German Newspaper of similar view to mine:

“The pope is right. … The battle against AIDS, one of the scourges of Africa, cannot be won by pressing condoms into the hands of as many people as possible. AIDS is spreading in the poor countries because men see women and particularly virgins as quarry, because women have not learned to protect themselves from these men, and because poverty, a lack of education and the daily violence mean that sexuality has nothing to do with love, partnership and responsibility. Those who reduce the problem to condoms have understood nothing.

Pope Benedict XVI is wrong, however, when he sticks to the church’s condom ban. Condoms may not solve Africa’s problems, but they do save lives. Some people in the church who know the poorest continent well are quietly saying that the Vatican’s anti-condom policy is endangering lives. It is irresponsible and naïve to demand that a couple practice abstinence if one of them is infected with HIV. Sexuality cannot be controlled by the declaration of encyclicals.”

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:34 pm 59. Marie Claude:

chucky you are making the show with a gratuitous IQ flux, not useful for the purpose

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:49 pm 60. Chuck Pelto:

TO: satyrical
RE: Okay…

Pope Benedict XVI is wrong — satyrical

….make your case.

Bring forth your evidence that abstinence is ineffective in stopping the spread of AIDS.

Go on. I defy you.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The devil is ALWAYS in the details. That's why 'liberals' can't stand REAL debate.]

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:50 pm 61. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: Oh?

chucky you are making the show with a gratuitous IQ flux, not useful for the purpose — Marie Claude

You have an IQ? How niiiiice….

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Why the schitzie subject-matter jump, anyway?

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:52 pm 62. Marie Claude:

you’re a buffoon

Mar 19, 2009 - 2:53 pm 63. satyrical:

Mr. Pelto:

You misunderstand me. I, along with the newspaper I quote, have nothing against policies in support of abstinence to combat infection with HIV. What I take exception to is the official Vatican policy condemning condoms. The Pope’s speech is admirable as a speech from a private citizen, but as a speech coming from the leader of the Catholic Church it implies a justification for this policy. Because this policy eliminates an important tool in combating the spread of HIV, at least among strict Catholics, I object to that portion of the address. I hope this clarifications aids you in understanding my point of view.

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:14 pm 64. Chuck Pelto:

TO: satyrical
RE: I’ve Heard….

I, along with the newspaper I quote, have nothing against policies in support of abstinence to combat infection with HIV. What I take exception to is the official Vatican policy condemning condoms. — satyrical

…BS before. And yours ranks there with the lowest.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[I was born at night. But it wasn't LAST night.]

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:23 pm 65. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Looks like you’re trying out for a third chair on the Frank and Marie Show….

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:24 pm 66. e:

Apparently the only posts contrary to this article are ridiculing straw men. Nobody, but nobody said that people shouldn’t use condoms to protect themselves.

The argument is that condoms aren’t perfect and frankly if you don’t want a STD don’t have sex with someone who has one.

No solution is gonna be perfect, so try the ones that work and work the best. Absence works better than Monogamy which is better than Condoms which is better than nothing.

Too bad the only people who take the time to read and understand this post already have the common sense not to need to.

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:27 pm 67. satyrical:

?

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:30 pm 68. Marie Claude:

yo chuccky, sorry, the Bustor Keaton ain’t for your, got the Pee Wee left, actually a bargain, he used to be more pricey

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:34 pm 69. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: Getting ‘Personal’?

yo chuccky, sorry, the Bustor Keaton ain’t for your, got the Pee Wee left, actually a bargain, he used to be more pricey — Marie Claude

I recommend you ask Delia to point you in the ‘right’ direction, about me…..he…he…he….

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Anytime you want to get back ON-TOPIC, I’ll be happy to oblige.

Hey! Maybe YOU can provide some better statistics regarding abstinence vs. condoms in preventing HIV/AIDS. Better than the foolish female who tried to tell me that it was not necessary for the public health department to keep statistics proving THEIR programs worked better than anything else on the face of planet Earth…..

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:41 pm 70. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: satyrical

? — satyrical

He/She is either speechless or, literally, dumb-struck. I suspect the latter, with emphasis on the ‘dumb’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Years of judging debate tournaments help…..

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:43 pm 71. Marie Claude:

ah perdon me I didn’t know you were such an adulated selfworshipped genious

I’ll put you on my listings for next times

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:47 pm 72. Delia:

36. Phil Onochie,

Good for you, hon! Keep spreading the word that refraining and abstaining until marriage with a suitable partner is a GOOD THING.

God bless you! It’s people like you who can help turn the AA community around for the betterment of yourself and everyone.

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:52 pm 73. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: Well…

ah perdon me I didn’t know you were such an adulated selfworshipped genious — Marie Claude

…we all have our cross to bear. Fortunately, He understands me. Certainly better than you do.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. When are you going to get off this ‘target-fixation’ issue you suffer from?

Mar 19, 2009 - 3:52 pm 74. Marie Claude:

When are you going to get off this ‘target-fixation’ issue you suffer from

as soon as you get out of my lawns

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:02 pm 75. john in africa:

The problem is that the Pope’s sentiments, even though he tried to be careful in his language, are that condoms are to be discouraged always.

Many Catholics (old school) that I know are like this. Whenever you have a conversation about this with them, even though they’ve never been to Africa, they will outrightly denounce the use of condoms.

You’re right, the ABC program has had a lot of success, and reports show this. But, again, the problem is that the Pope and many other Catholics continuously discourage the use of condoms which are a key element of the ABC program. I agree with them idealistically, but in reality, condoms have prevented the spread of this terrible disease. If people like the Pope and other Catholics continue to denounce their use, in any case (which they do), more are infected, and I think that is a greater evil than people using them.

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:02 pm 76. Delia:

70. Chuck Pelto,

Oh chuck, chuck bo buck. I know you’re a hunka-hunka burnin’ macho love. Just try and keep all of that testosterone in check will ya? *kisses you on the nose*

Your acquiescence to my feminine wiles would be much appreciated. *flutters eyelashes innocently*

No? Oh fine. *pouty face with flashing blue eyed daggers*
~

Sex feels good.
Food tastes good.
Drugs feel good.
SOOOOOOO?

We have STD’s up the ying-yang and obesity up the surgical Stomach Bypass and stoners who can’t even find their left shoe before they hit the bread line. Sodom and Gomorrah much?

I’m not casting stones. I’m just being ‘fer real’.

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:15 pm 77. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Maria Claude
RE: Woman….

“as soon as you get out of my lawns” — Maria Claude

….I have absolutely NO ‘desire’ to plow in your field. Ask Delia. She’ll point out why….I hope…..

In the meantime….

….you’re so ‘off-topic’ and ‘off-target’ you have no clue as to what you are talking about. All you can do is cast ad homs. And they’re ALL missing the ‘target’ of this topical thread.

You’re reminding me of that old adage regarding the lawyers’ rule.

Maybe….someday….you’ll find out what that is.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Do you work or are affiliated with any ‘health’ organization?

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:24 pm 78. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: Drug Ed vs. Sex Ed

“Drugs feel good.” — Delia

Now THERE is an interesting point. And a good one for compare and contrast.

So if the school system teaches “Just say NO!” to drugs, i.e., ‘abstinence’. Why can’t they teach the same thing in sex education?

Or maybe they should acknowledge that kids are doing drugs, like the rep from the local university called me down when I challenged the health department rep regarding sex.

So. If we’re teaching the kids to ‘be safe’ regarding sex…as we recognize that the weak are having sex….why can’t we teach the kids to ‘be safe’ regarding drugs? After all, we KNOW that kids ARE doing drugs. Let’s pass out clean syringes as well as unopened condoms!!!!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Gads! I look forward to bringing that arg up at the next commission meeting……

I MUST remember to bring the camcorder. I think the results might qualify for America’s Funniest Home Videos…..

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:33 pm 79. Delia:

78. Chuck Pelto,

Liberals idea of “NO” means “Maybe, kinda sorta, iffy oh what the hell go for it”.

Nutshell.

Mar 19, 2009 - 4:53 pm 80. Stevo:

The church teaches what it does because it believes it to be good and true. It doesn’t have the option of saying that condoms are OK because they save lives. It says that sexuality has a well defined place in human life, and condoms do not have a legitimate use in that defined place. Catholic theology is very idealistic, if it weren’t it would soon fade into foolishness like most protestant denominations have done.

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:02 pm 81. vivo:

11. Chuck Pelto:

“vivo has yet to discover that condoms are not 100% effective.”

I knew that the probability of a condom not functioning is about 2% for pregnancies and 15% for STD’s. But using one is better than none.

“P.S. I wonder how willing vivo would be to have sex with someone who has AIDS and all that were between them and having one-foot-in-the-grave was a thin piece of latex…..”

I wouldn’t have sex with an infected person. I stopped using condoms a long time ago because my partners were “certified”. There are tests out there, you know. We are talking here about the African masses.

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:18 pm 82. Marie Claude:

mensas it’s all the humanity needs

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:19 pm 83. Chuck Pelto:

TO: vivo
RE: Still….

I knew that the probability of a condom not functioning is about 2% for pregnancies and 15% for STD’s. But using one is better than none. — vivo

….missing the proverbial ‘point’. Entirely.

How very sad.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Atheist, n., One hoping to God that He doesn't exist.]

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:26 pm 84. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: It Is Ignorant, You Are

mensas it’s all the humanity needs — Marie Claude

’nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. -- Albert Einstein]

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:30 pm 85. Marie Claude:

and you’re the smartest person in the world, dude stronzo

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:38 pm 86. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: As I Was Saying….

and you’re the smartest person in the world, dude stronzo — Marie Claude

…it is ‘ignorant’ you are.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Enough of your childish, trivial jealousies…..

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:47 pm 87. Marie Claude:

funny, a person that advertises on his place of being of the mensas club, wants to take advantage of his pseudo superiority to STFU to non conventional 132+, but nonentheless doesn’t put an original idea on board, except sarcasms on persons who do not express his item views

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:50 pm 88. Marie Claude:

jaleous of an idiot, never

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:52 pm 89. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: For Example….

jaleous of an idiot, never — Marie Claude

…we have here the quintessential exmaple of ‘projection’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Sleep the word that knits up the raveled sleeve of care. -- Shakespeare]

P.S. Good night all. Time for a good nights rest after a day of plans, programs, popes, pundits and pitifullness…..

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:58 pm 90. FHCalcio:

The Pope is “anti-condom” for a simple reason: the sexual act must be open to the transmission of life…condoms (in theory) don’t allow for that; no artificial contraception does, hence his statement. Learn about the Catholic church and her dogma before you flame it.

CATHOLICS ALSO BELIEVE that sex outside of marriage is immoral and signifies a bond that DOES NOT EXIST. Hence, our doctrine regarding that can be summed up in part by this: you shouldn’t be having sex if you’re not married.

LEATHERNECK: Yikes!! We don’t worship Mary. We ask her to pray with us, to intercede for us. She is the Mother of God…Surely you see her importance. Learn about the Catholic faith before you flame it. I suggest you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church before you make such a brash statement.

Mar 19, 2009 - 5:59 pm 91. Mike Blackadder:

Vivo: “I knew that the probability of a condom not functioning is about 2% for pregnancies and 15% for STD’s. But using one is better than none.”

I hope they work better than 15% of the time for aids. I’m sure that they do… but wouldn’t risk it of course.

So what is a better policy when it comes to preventing the spread of aids?

1) Accepting that Africans are going to have promiscuous sex and therefore distribute as many condoms as possible (instructing them on how and why to use them) and screen people for aids? OR
2) Teaching Catholic doctrine to prevent the spread of aids. This consists of teaching the virtues of a monogamous relationship, abstaining from sex until marriage and teaching the virtue of having control over our sexual urges. Oh, and just to drive the point home, mention that doing all of these things are the ONLY reliable way of not putting yourself at risk of contracting aids.

Now perhaps you can teach #2 while distributing condoms. But do they? They certainly do not in public schools. The pope is right. We are more afraid of preaching religion than we are of people dying from aids. That’s sad.

Mar 19, 2009 - 6:49 pm 92. Delia:

81. vivo:

“I wouldn’t have sex with an infected person. I stopped using condoms a long time ago because my partners were “certified”. There are tests out there, you know.”
~

vivo, ‘partners’ plural means you are a loose man/woman and ‘certified’ goes only as far as you can trust the guy you’re having sex with to not cheat on you.

There are tests out there you know… “Lie detectors”.

Have fun playing Russian roulette with your life via your crotch yearnings.

Mar 19, 2009 - 6:56 pm 93. Marie Claude:

So did the pope talk for Americans or for Africans, cuz the both situations are different, you can’t handle the same position for Africa, for whatever you say it’s not appropriate, even if rhzy are christians, they still have tribal rituals, that they respected long before we went there

Mar 19, 2009 - 7:37 pm 94. Delia:

93. Marie Claude,

I’m not a Catholic but when the Pope speaks out about things he’s speaking to Catholics from all over the world?

Here’s a sad link I found:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/444213

Catholics/Christians practice a lot of Pagan rituals but I won’t go there this evening.

Mar 19, 2009 - 7:50 pm 95. Marie Claude:

unfortunately I can’t have access into your link, it refuses my incription

Mar 19, 2009 - 8:03 pm 96. Delia:

95. Marie Claude,

Sorry, I forgot that’s a ‘members only’ site.

Here is the full article [Sorry, it's kinda long]:

Child Rape in South Africa

from Pediatric Nursing
Posted 12/06/2002

Eileen Meier, MPH, JD, MPH, RN

Rape, including child rape, is increasing at shocking rates in South Africa. Sexual violence against children, including the raping of infants, has increased 400% over the past decade (Dempster, 2002). According to a report by BBC news, a female born in South Africa has a greater chance of being raped in her lifetime than learning how to read (Dempster, 2002). When South Africa became a democracy in 1994, there were already 18,801 cases of rape per year, but by 2001 there were 24,892 (Dempster, 2002). Numbers vary by different institutions, but are nevertheless extremely troubling. The Institute of Race Relations found that more than 52,000 rapes were reported in 2000, and 40% of the victims were under age 18 (du Venage, 2002). The University of South Africa reports that 1 million women and children are raped there each year (South Africa: Focus on the Virgin Myth, 2002).
High Profile Baby Rapes

A number of high profile baby rapes since 2001 (including the fact that they required extensive reconstructive surgery to rebuild urinary, genital, abdominal, or tracheal systems) increased the need to address the problem socially and legally. In 2001, a 9-month-old baby was raped by six men, aged between 24 and 66, after the infant had been left unattended by her teenage mother. A 4-year-old girl died after being raped by her father. A 14-month-old girl was raped by her two uncles. In February 2002, an 8-month-old infant was reportedly gang raped by four men. One has been charged (McGreal, 2001). The infant has required extensive reconstructive surgery. The 8-month-old infant’s injuries were so extensive, increased attention on prosecution has occurred.
The Effect of Apartheid on the Current Violence

The apartheid system in South Africa separated Whites from Blacks and mixed race individuals. The Separate Amenities Act in 1948 created separate building entrances, schools, public restrooms, public benches, etc. for Blacks and mixed race individuals. Race was identified by physical attributes that tended to be arbitrary (if an official stuck a pencil in someone’s hair and it stuck, the person was Black). The Population Registration Act of 1950 created the “pass laws” forcing non-Whites to carry a pass with them at all times. The Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act of 1951 enabled the government to force Blacks and mixed race individuals to live in designated areas. “Section Six” in Capetown remains a relative ghost town of empty apartments and homes. Individuals who lived there were forced to move outside of the city by the government, thus creating the townships, such as Soweto (near Johannesburg) and Cape Flats (near Capetown). Today, townships are miles and miles of tin shacks and/or boards haphazardly nailed together to form shelters.
Schools are Inadequate and Violent

The apartheid system and its removal have also had an indirect effect on the large number of rapes occurring in schools. For years, teachers fought against the apartheid system as their main objective, and schools were sites of political uprisings and violent places. Now that apartheid is dismantled, teachers and the education system have struggled to refocus resources on actual education and qualified teachers. The Bantu Education Act and its system, forced upon Blacks and individuals of mixed race during apartheid, provided only rudimentary skills for menial jobs, not professions. White domination was apparent through this education practice. The generation responsible for teaching children now is ill prepared. In addition, AIDS is killing teachers. AIDS is beginning to kill massive numbers of educated professionals. In a recent Cape Times article, discipline and AIDS were cited as the biggest threat to education in South Africa (Peer, 2002).

Gangs are growing in South Africa and intimidate teachers, disrupt lessons, and rape at will. According to a Human Rights Watch assessment, “Gangs… make schools places where drugs, thugs, and weapons can move as freely through the gates as people,” and “Schools become territorial prizes… courses are not conducted according to any regular schedule” (Scared at School, 2001). The reorganization of schools after the apartheid system has created a chronic shortage of classrooms and teaching materials, high student-teacher ratios, and no access to proper sanitation with nearly half of the schools using pit latrines, which are inadequate in number. Thirteen percent of schools have no sanitation facilities and 56% have no electricity (Scared at School, 2001). Many girls are raped in bathrooms and latrines in schools, many by other classmates and 40% by teachers (Scared at School, 2001).
Police and Legal System

In the past, the police represented the oppressors. Police in Soweto and other townships killed hundreds of rioters and protesters before the apartheid system was removed. It has taken time for individuals, including women, to go to the police system for help after a rape or other violent act. In many instances, there are not enough police in the townships to cope with the growing numbers of murder, rape, and robbery. Police have had incidents where a woman or girl was being held and repeatedly raped by gangs in a township, but they didn’t have enough manpower to go in to stop or overpower the number of men (Lydia Richards, Professor, University of Capetown School of Nursing, personal communication, June 7, 2002).
Townships Breed Violence and Social Breakdown

A social worker at Red Cross Children’s Hospital in Capetown, a hospital that treats the largest number of child rapes, described the geographical outlay and problems in townships that may contribute to child rape (Carla Brown, Chief Social Worker for Child Rape Victims, Red Cross Children’s Hospital, Capetown, personal communication, June 11, 2002). Many areas lack running water and electricity, and outhouses are used by a large number of individuals. Living spaces may be a 10 x 8 room where a large number of individuals live (10 or more) – parents, children, grandparents, uncles, or friends all live in one cramped space. People must undress, bathe, and sleep in extremely small areas without partitions. There are no private areas for parents to have sexual relations and members of the family may sleep next to children on the floor – grandfathers or uncles sleeping next to small children. Children going to outhouses late in the evening may be sent alone and exposed to possible rape or violence. Townships have areas of tall grasses, garbage, and discarded junk. Girls walking to school have been raped in these areas because of lack of visibility from the outside world. Gang initiation is beginning to consist of child rape, including the rape of young boys. Individuals who are not lucky enough to have a job are left with other family members, sometimes other children or other male relatives who rape these children. There is an increasing number of children orphaned due to the death of their parents from AIDS. These children are left with other young caregivers, exposing them to rape and violence.
Reasons for Rape

Various cultural beliefs in South Africa regarding rape hinder the problem of decreasing and reporting rape. It is difficult to impossible for a woman to say no to sex. Many girls and women believe that if they know the boy or it is a boyfriend who rapes them, they cannot say no to sex, even forcible sex. Many men believe they are entitled to sex or even believe that women enjoy being raped. In a study done in the Gauteng area, 8 in 10 men believed women were responsible for causing sexual violence and 3 in 10 “asked for it” (Scared at School, 2001). Approximately 50% of male youth believed no to sex meant yes, and nearly one third said forcing sex on someone they knew was not sexual violence (Scared at School, 2001). A majority of men thought “jack rolling” (“recreational” gang rape) was bad, but boys between the ages of 15 and 19 thought it was “good” or “just a game” (Scared at School, 2001).

The raping of infants and/or children may also be due to the belief that sex with a child or baby will cure AIDS. Virginity testing is growing and many times occurs in school. Girls must lie on their backs with their pants and underwear off and legs in the air, preferably on a sloped floor (IRIN HIV/AIDS Weekly, 2001). A survey in East London, South Africa, by the University of South Africa found that 18% of 498 workers believed that sex with a virgin could cure AIDS (South Africa: Virgins, victims…, 2002). In Gauteng, 32% of those interviewed believed this myth. Some discount this belief for the reason behind rape, but Barbara Kenyon, director of the Greater Nelspruit Rape Intervention Project in the Northern Province of South Africa, has found in follow-up visits that many children become HIV positive and that children who are raped are getting younger and younger. Some analysts have stated that desperate people are desperate for a cure. Money for AIDS drugs is essentially unavailable despite the victory by the South African government last year against pharmaceutical companies to buy AIDS-treatment drugs at a cheaper price. Unemployment among Blacks and mixed race is anywhere from 30%-60%, but typically around 60%. Many individuals work without formal work contracts and benefits. The median income for Blacks and mixed race can be as low as $300/year, and the cost for AIDS drugs average $40 to $50 per month, clearly out of reach for a large majority of the population. Payment for health care in hospitals or care centers is means-based. Others blame the high rate of violence, including sexual violence, on a culture of violence that existed in South Africa for decades because of apartheid.
AIDS Role

Africa is home to 70% of the adults and 80% of the children living with HIV in the world (Avert, 2002). South Africa has the largest population of individuals in Africa infected with HIV. More than 4.8 million people there have AIDS; 250,000 died from AIDS in 1999; and by the year 2015, the population loss of AIDS-related deaths in South Africa will be 4.4 million (Centers for Disease Control [CDC], 2002). By the year 2010, HIV prevalence could reach 25%, and by 2008, 1.6 million children will be orphaned by AIDS, increasing the number of children who are at risk for no caregivers, rape, sex work, or life on the street (CDC, 2002). At least 5.7 million children in South Africa could lose one or both parents from HIV/AIDS by 2015 unless there are major interventions (IRIN Daily News Alert, 2002). In African countries where at least 15% of adults are infected, AIDS will claim approximately one third of today’s 15-year-olds (HIV & AIDS in Africa, 2002). Teachers are increasingly dying in Africa from AIDS. Economically, AIDS will continue to impact upon the very root of why violence and sexual violence could increase due to unemployment and the break down of the social fabric. AIDS will reduce economic impact by 0.3-0.4% annually in South Africa, and by the year 2010, AIDS will reduce South Africa’s gross domestic product by 17% and eliminate $20 billion of the country’s economy (Avert, 2002).

There continues to be debate in South Africa among members of Parliament, including President Thabo Mbeki and other leaders as to whether HIV causes AIDS and whether drugs will help. President Mbeki has restricted the use of AIDS drugs in hospitals on the grounds of safety. Cost also restricts treatment drugs such as AZT, but Nevirapine (reduces mother-child transmission) has been tested in 18 pilots (Seindells, 2002). An estimated 50% to 70% of all tuberculosis patients are infected with HIV. For children (Blacks and mixed race who are not economically sound) who are infected with HIV, no medicines are available due to cost. In Red Cross Children’s Hospital, pneumocystis carnae pneumonia (PCP) is treated with Bactrim®. Few if any drugs are available for treating Karposis’ Sarcoma (leaving parents with tremendously disfigured infants until they die) and cytomegolarovirus (CMV), CMV retinitis, or CMV pneumonia.
Prosecution of Rape Cases and New Health Programs

Many families, women, or girls are reluctant to report rape or prosecute the rapist. If a woman’s husband is raping children in the household, she may be reluctant to go to the police if he is the only source of income. Prosecution of rape crimes has been slow as well. The government and legal system came under tremendous scrutiny with the gang rape of a 9-month-old girl in the Northern Cape in October 2001. Six men were arrested for the crime but released after lack of evidence could connect them to the crime. The child suffered extensive internal injuries and required a colostomy. Protesters called for the execution or castration of child rapists after the incident. (South Africa outlawed the death penalty in 1995.) Community lynching of rapists has started to occur in townships. In addition, discussions to change the legal definition of rape has occurred. The current legal definition would not apply to the raping of boys (or men) or rape of a girl or boy with an object. Occasionally girls are raped by the insertion of objects into their vagina. The rape of a boy (or man) is handled under a different legal definition as an indecent act.
Program for Women and Girls

In 1999, the government established approximately two dozen courts specifically to handle sexual offenses. The Bureau’s current project, the Thuthuzela Care Centre, in cooperation with the Vera Institute in New York City helps the justice system treat rape survivors (girls 14 and older) with respect and handle criminal cases more effectively. The project’s goal is to improve police investigations, collection of evidence, and prosecution. The project is a result of a small study in Cape Flats that showed women and girl’s treatment after rape led to poor investigations and unsuccessful prosecutions. Before the center, women or girls waited an average of 3-4 hours in police stations repeating their stories. Medical exams were delayed hours or days, and evidence was routinely lost. Girls and women were rarely tested for HIV, and many women walked home alone from the hospital. Girls or women did not know of court hearing schedules, and many stopped case prosecution.

The Centre is located in Jooste Hospital in Manenberg near Cape Flats and Mitchell’s Plain (Capetown townships). A second care center opened in July 2001 in Mdantsane in the Eastern Cape. The Centre sees women and girls as young as 14. The matron of the center reports the Centre sees approximately 30 rapes per month in children age 14-17 (in addition to women). Many of these rapes occur in schools (Carla Brown, Chief Social Worker for Child Rape Victims, Red Cross Children’s Hospital, Capetown, personal communication, June 11, 2002). They are perpetrated by boys (some as young as 10), and approximately 40% of the rapes are perpetrated by teachers. Recently, Parliament Education Committee Chair Shepard Mayatula has advocated for publicly “naming and shaming” teachers who rape students (Terreblanche, 2002).

After a rape occurs, the police bring the woman or girl to the Centre. A doctor collects evidence using DNA analysis kits. Only visual detection of evidence is used, as a colposcopy machine is unavailable due to cost (and would require additional training). If a woman or girl appears at the center within 72 hours after the rape, she is offered AZT and tested for HIV and sexually-transmitted diseases. A doctor may be called away during the exam and return a number of times. The woman or girl can change into clean clothes and eat something after the examination. A special prosecutor handles all rape cases at the Thuthuzela Care Centre. This prosecutor is experienced in rape cases as well as child rape. Despite this, girls, women, and families of infants or children who have been raped are many times reluctant to go through with criminal prosecution due to threats of violence, murder, and prior incidents of family homes being burned in retaliation for reporting rapes to the police and judicial system (Pauline Berzi, Matron Nurse, Thuthuzela Care Centre, Mitchell’s Plain, South Africa, personal communication, June 7, 2002).
Infants and Children

For children below age 14 and those requiring reconstructive surgery, many go to the Red Cross Children’s Hospital, a tertiary hospital in Capetown and for the Western Cape area. In 1995, the social worker responsible for child rape victims saw an average of 100 child rapes per month. It has slowly decreased to approximately 25 per month, but this number is deceiving (Carla Brown, Chief Social Worker for Child Rape Victims, Red Cross Children’s Hospital, Capetown, personal communication, June 11, 2002). Most child rapes are now seen in primary care centers in the community where reporting is still haphazard. The incidence may still be 100 or more a month. The number of child rapes and rapes in South Africa was so embarrassing that the government placed a moratorium on government crime statistics in 2001 stating that they needed “reassessment” (Scared at School, 2001).

If a child is seen within 72 hours after the rape at Red Cross Hospital, the child is started on AZT. Parent(s) are counseled on safety and psychological effects. The child is placed initially in the intensive care unit (ICU) because heightened security for the child and family can be provided in the ICU if retaliation by the perpetrator takes place. Many parents are reluctant to continue the prosecution due to long delays and fears of “reliving” the attack. Dolls are used in Red Cross Hospital and court to demonstrate abuse, although many children have never seen a doll and have been initially afraid of dolls (Carla Brown, Chief Social Worker for Child Rape Victims, Red Cross Children’s Hospital, Capetown, personal communication, June 11, 2002). Social workers work with caregivers to increase the safety of these children so further abuse does not take place.
Prosecution of Child and Infant Rapes

If a parent continues with the prosecution, the government has developed the Sexual Offenses and Community Affairs Unit. In Capetown, both women from the Thuthuzela Centre and child rape cases are held in a special section for security. Child-friendly rooms in the Capetown courts were developed with the assistance of Resources Aimed at the Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect (RAPCAN), a South African child abuse non-profit group that has done community education and media campaigns on child abuse. Children are taken to a special room where an “intermediary” assists the child and a closed circuit video monitor is placed for viewing in the courtroom (Special Rape Prosecutor, Capetown, personal communication, June 7, 2002). There is also security for the child in this room. The child can be seen in the courtroom but cannot see the alleged perpetrator. This differs from the American system where a child may be forced to “face” the accused (Althea Handy, Division Chief Sex Offense Division of State’s Attorney’s Office for Baltimore City, personal communication, June 5, 2002.). The intermediary sits next to the child and assists him or her in translation of languages and informs the court if the child needs a break for the toilet, food, or rest. Because there are so many cases waiting to be heard, the government recently put out a call to hire more prosecutors for child rape cases.

Sexual-assault nurse examiners (SANE) are nonexistent in South Africa but could provide a means to increase health care and collection of evidence for a wider section of the population, particularly in rural areas. Generally, nurses see children for immunizations or illnesses in rural areas or primary care settings. The South African government is trying to increase prosecution of rape cases but already has a backlog of 1-2 years. With an increasing number of children left without parents due to AIDS, cultural myths regarding rape, and economic downturns, the violence of child rape will continue to take its toll.

Eileen Meier, MPH, JD, MPH, RN, has 20 years of professional experience as nurse, U.S. Senate staffer, health attorney, and health lobbyist. Ms. Meier is currently the director of a health-policy consulting firm and represents several health care advocacy groups.

Pediatr Nurs 28(5):532-535, 2002. © 2002 Jannetti Publications, Inc.

Mar 19, 2009 - 8:12 pm 97. vivo:

92. Delia:

“vivo, ‘partners’ plural means you are a loose man/woman and ‘certified’ goes only as far as you can trust the guy you’re having sex with to not cheat on you. ”

Luckily, I had my time before the HIV plague started. How you heard the term “serial relationships”?

“There are tests out there you know… “Lie detectors”.”

That would be cumbersome and inaccurate. I’m referring to HIV tests. Sounds like you don’t know that. BTW, I’m a male, my pseudonym says that.

Mar 20, 2009 - 4:16 am 98. deguello:

#26 Yeeha! True enough, but they are backward and desperate, like the europeans,of the dark ages, vulnerable to the appeal of Christian BS.

Mar 20, 2009 - 4:28 am 99. Klavan On The Culture » Score One For The Pope:

[...] Klavan On The Culture » Score One For The Pope [...]

Mar 20, 2009 - 4:31 am 100. Marie Claude:

Delia, thanks, this illustrates my first purpose, this report is even more alarming than I thought by its crual reality that is nowadays current, which wasn’t the case several decades ago.

This is why pope’s discourse is beyond his feet with its impossible goals, and only concerns an elite, that has bank accounts in western countries. Besides pope’s communicators removed some of his words on the Vatican site and nuanced their final sense, because it made such collective protest among the the european christians.

“While in the plane, Benedict XVI noted that the distribution of condoms “increases” the problem of AIDS, the official version states that transcribed it “may increase” the scourge.”

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/travels/2009/index_camerun-angola_en.htm

Mar 20, 2009 - 4:58 am 101. Your Boss:

Richard;

If said behavior leads to the birth of children the parents are unable or unwilling to support and the support of those children falls to me the taxpayer, damnn right I’m going to have a strong opinion on those behaviors.

Vivo @81;

When the term ‘certified free of STDs’ is used, it’s usually in the context of prostitution.

Mar 20, 2009 - 5:16 am 102. kate:

This is just like the outcry following the Catholic Church’s position on birth control.
I doubt that one actually read the comments or made an effort to understand them within context. But the same howling mob that decries the pope’s wisdom ignores the numerous fatwas issued by Muslim leaders against the west, our basic values and way of life.

Mar 20, 2009 - 6:20 am 103. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Marie Claude
RE: You’re STILL….

“While in the plane, Benedict XVI noted that the distribution of condoms “increases” the problem of AIDS, the official version states that transcribed it “may increase” the scourge.” — Marie Claude

…missing the primary point. If you, as an adult, don’t engage in sex, you’re much less likely to contract HIV/AIDS.

As for the rape-gangs and the idiots who think raping a child will cure them of AIDS, that’s just another example of how much this situation resembles what was going on in Noah’s time.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[....and the heavens as well.....]

Mar 20, 2009 - 6:21 am 104. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: Christian BS?

True enough, but they are backward and desperate, like the europeans,of the dark ages, vulnerable to the appeal of Christian BS. — deguello

Show us this “BS”….try to stay on-topic. But if you go on an ‘excursion’, I think it will serve His purposes as well.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God builds his temple in the heart on the ruins of churches and religions. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson]

Mar 20, 2009 - 6:26 am 105. Marie Claude:

I note that Benedict XVI, “God’s representative on earth”, commits to first save what Saint Peter left, ie the church, before thinking about saving and protecting the flocks of lord. This is not new, it is not surprising, this is the classic Catholicism that the new churches are complaining about, which already was on at the time Martin Luther

what says the camerounese, Theodore Kommegne, researcher and psychologist, who is in use to work with infected children (uh, for the mensas that speak french )

http://www.afrik.com/article16452.html

Mar 20, 2009 - 7:32 am 106. Ahura Mazda:

To the faith believers here;

Please don’t respond to Deguello’s provocations. If he/she/it wants to have a serious discussion on Atheism vs Belief, he/she/it would post more intelligent discourse instead throwing our mindless bait for the volatile among you. Stop biting.

Both of you are lowering the level of dialogue on this thread.

Thank You

Mar 20, 2009 - 7:59 am 107. deguello:

AHURA MAZDA : Pleas for intelligent discussion of religion from a person whose moniker is the name of the ancient Persian fire god,strike me as both surreal and self serving.Besides,an “intelligent” discussion on religion, is like having an intelligent discussion on witchcraft,UFO abductions,socialism, and magic crystals;sterile because of the ultimate fantastic nature of the subject. Next time your worshippers light a fire in your honor Ahura dear, please wear a gas mask,the noxious fumes seem to be affecting your brain.

Mar 20, 2009 - 9:26 am 108. deguello:

Chuck Pelto: No BS :”There was only one Christian,and he died on the cross”-Nietzsche

Mar 20, 2009 - 9:27 am 109. deguello:

Chuck Pelto:” HIs ” purposes? Yes indeed,Dyonisus’s! Best Regards!

Mar 20, 2009 - 9:29 am 110. Richard:

Your Boss wrote:
“If said behavior leads to the birth of children the parents are unable or unwilling to support and the support of those children falls to me the taxpayer, damnn right I’m going to have a strong opinion on those behaviors.”

So are you out there condemning mormon families that are having more kids than they can support? Are you out there condemning catholic families that are having more kids than they can support?

Those children, too, are falling on the taxpayer to take care of them.

In fact, most children are supported indirectly in one way or another by the taxpayer. Does your school system charge you a variable rate of tax based on how many kids you have enrolled in the system, or does it levy a property tax on all property holders, regardless of whether or not they are benefitting from the educational system? There are similar redistributions in the tax code where people get additional deductions based on the number of dependents. That means that the rest of us float more of the bill for the government largesse that they receive for their children.

Are you up in arms about all of that too, or is it only the people who won’t adopt your idea of marriage before they have sex that deserve your scorn?

Mar 20, 2009 - 9:37 am 111. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: [OT] Nietzsche

”There was only one Christian,and he died on the cross”-Nietzsche

God is dead. — Nietzsche, c. 18895. Nietzsche is dead. — God, today

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Atheist, n., One hoping to God that He doesn't exist.]

P.S. Is Nietzsche all you can offer? Where are YOUR args?

Mar 20, 2009 - 10:01 am 112. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Ahura Mazda
RE: [OT] deguello

Both of you are lowering the level of dialogue on this thread. — Ahura Mazda

Actually….

….I’m (1) having fun tweaking him and (2) educating others about Him.

But you are correct in your understanding of his/her understanding of God and Christ. They have nothing intellectually significant to offer in any such debate. Indeed, they are completely unarmed in such a discussion.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Never enter a battle of wits unarmed.]

Mar 20, 2009 - 10:09 am 113. Delia:

110. Richard,

I had one child [my choice]. She wasn’t an ‘accident’…my husband and I planned her life together. If I’d have gotten pregnant by ‘accident’ I would have had my child and loved him/her just as much as the one I ‘planned’ on. My husband comes from a Catholic family of 11 [yes ELEVEN lol] children. My hub’s father toiled and struggled to support his family and never took a single dime from the government.

I gave birth to my daughter at home with a midwife. We paid in ‘cash’.

I Home-Schooled my daughter because I felt a loyal duty to the child I wanted to have the best education I could provide her. I was proven RIGHT. She’s an incredibly intelligent young woman who is on her way to becoming a successful person.

There are people who have a LOT of babies and are self-sufficient and do not rely on the gov. dole.

There are ALSO people who pop out babies like rabbits and figure the more ‘babies’ they have the bigger ‘welfare check’ they’ll get. THAT cycle of ‘STUPID’ and ‘LAZY’ is a pox on our system.

Mar 20, 2009 - 10:39 am 114. Delia:

100. Marie Claude,

A rapist who puts a ‘condom on’ before engaging in raping a child/woman/man is still a rapist and the most evil, vile, despicable kind.

Madness and EVIL cannot be stopped with a condom.

Mar 20, 2009 - 10:54 am 115. Free Quark:

Richard;

Illegitimacy is the biggest cause of social problems costing me taxes, not Mormon families with too many children. My friend used to work in the NYC prison system. He pointed out one day that the majority of inmates grew up with never-married mothers. Some regretful jokes circulated among the staff about how their wards didn’t know who their father was. It was often the case.

Most children who are poor in this country are poor because their parents never married and their fathers don’t support them. Statistically, such children have more problems in life than those who were born into two parent households.

Reckless people, both married or unmarried, are entirely deserving of scorn. Doubly so if their lack of thought affects their children and the rest of us.

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:02 am 116. Marie Claude:

Rapists don’t put condom on

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:14 am 117. Delia:

115. Marie Claude:

“Rapists don’t put condom on”
~

Yep. I’ve never heard of the “Condom rapist” yet. lol

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:25 am 118. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Richard
RE: Et Tu, Richard?

….is it only the people who won’t adopt your idea of marriage before they have sex that deserve your scorn? — Richard

Not ‘getting’ it? I doubt if Your Boss ’scorns’ anyone. But yet, just pointing out that there is a standard that is different from YOURS, you—projecting—scorn Richard.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Can you prove that abstinence DOESN’T ‘work’?

P.P.S. Does that question, and your obvious inability to prove your case get you REALLY ’scornful’?

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:30 am 119. Paul M Hupf:

Sexual license is justified by the use of condoms. In short if you use a condom, sexual intimacy is OK. But history teaches otherwise. Sexual license destroys families. The immature think it legitimizes sexual license. No society can survive if sexual license become commonplace.

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:41 am 120. Middleman:

Abstinence sure doesn’t work in the US and it most certainly won’t work in Africa.
Humans are sexual beings and will not sit and wait until marriage.
Also we are talking about Africa. A place where there is currently an epidemic of albinos being kidnapped and grounded up by witch doctors to be used in elixirs because they are thought to be magical beings. You go over there and tell them to stop having sex. You’ll get the machete treatment.

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:44 am 121. Delia:

118. Paul M Hupf,

AMEN.

“Sex” has also been used as torture, humiliation and as a WEAPON. History proves this over and over and yet it repeats. “Prima Nocte”?

Brutes still exist and persist. The REAL MEN of this world would never think of doing such a thing as raping a baby girl [or raping ANYONE for that matter] but the SCUM/SCOURGE of this earth still carry on their brutal, sickening sexual horrors.

It’s high time we clean up this world. If there’s enough PROVEN evidence… Hang ‘em high and forget the ‘trial’.

Mar 20, 2009 - 11:49 am 122. Cathleen:

Why the uproar over what the Pope says? Why don’t those who consider him an ignorant, out of touch fool, just dismiss him as such and move on? Why do they care what he says? If anyone is silly enough to follow his laughable advice, they’re certainly not going to hurt themselves or anyone else. What harm does his advice do? Does anyone really think that people who are inclined to such risky behavior care one whit what the Pope thinks?

The Church can’t “forbid” anyone to do anything. The idea that the Pope “won’t let them use condoms” is laughable. Bishops aren’t going to show up in anyone’s bedroom with the Vatican police. The Pope’s job–and he fully understands it, being the wise shepherd that he is–is to offer guidance on what holiness looks like, as determined to the best of his (and the Church’s) ability, through the Holy Spirit, prayer, Scripture and Tradition. With this in mind, he and the Church’s responsibility is to offer as much help to the flock as they possibly can. As John Paul II says, “the Church PROPOSES, she doesn’t IMPOSE.”

The Catholic Church, along with countless other religious groups, quietly provides tremendous material, emotional, and spiritual support to AIDS patients in Africa. I suspect that many of those hollering the loudest about his ignorance can’t say the same about themselves.

Mar 20, 2009 - 12:16 pm 123. Pat J:

I think the pope’s point is condoms will never matter in reducing the spread of AIDS unless the sexual barbarism and dehumanization committed by certain segments of the African population comes to a halt. That and a concentrated effort to educate people in certain affected African areas on some of the misconceptions behind AIDS.

Mar 20, 2009 - 12:30 pm 124. Sapwolf:

I’ve read accounts that Africans are getting pretty sick and tired of leftist Europeans and westerners trying to push all this sexual promiscuity down their throats and condems at their kids.

I don’t blame them for getting annoyed. Uganda emphasizes abstinence and monogamy, so of course they show a significant reduction of new AIDS cases per capita.

Christianity is growing in Africa.

Mar 20, 2009 - 12:47 pm 125. David S:

@78. Chuck Pelto:

You finally start to talk sense when you try for sarcasm.

RE: Drug Ed vs. Sex Ed
“Drugs feel good.” — Delia

Now THERE is an interesting point. And a good one for compare and contrast.

This should be very enlightening…

So if the school system teaches “Just say NO!” to drugs, i.e., ‘abstinence’. Why can’t they teach the same thing in sex education?

Because in both cases such “abstinence only” education fails to achieve the goal of reducing the behavior. “Just say no” has been a dismal failure as a drug education policy – why would we extend this failure into sex education?

Or maybe they should acknowledge that kids are doing drugs, like the rep from the local university called me down when I challenged the health department rep regarding sex.

Acknowledging the fact that kids are doing drugs is critical to tackling the problem. Lots of kids drink in high school and college, before reaching the legal limit. Is it better that they not be educated about the cold, hard facts of alcohol before they find out the hard way? That seems rather short-sighted.

So. If we’re teaching the kids to ‘be safe’ regarding sex…as we recognize that the weak are having sex….why can’t we teach the kids to ‘be safe’ regarding drugs? After all, we KNOW that kids ARE doing drugs. Let’s pass out clean syringes as well as unopened condoms!!!!

We do and, and it’s called harm reduction, because that’s what it is. Sex and drugs can be indulged in with relative safety if one knows the facts, but both are dreadfully dangerous to those who know not what the consequences might be.

P.S. Gads! I look forward to bringing that arg up at the next commission meeting……
I MUST remember to bring the camcorder. I think the results might qualify for America’s Funniest Home Videos…..

Let us know when that comes around.

Peace.

DS

Mar 20, 2009 - 12:55 pm 126. Marie Claude:

So global warming supporters are complaining that there are too many people on earth, but if nothing is tempted, Africa will be free from humans in the next decades, and we’ll put some of their etnies on the catalogue of disappeared species

Mar 20, 2009 - 12:57 pm 127. Leatherneck:

mtm,

If I am wrong, then I am sorry. However, I see Mary held high as an idol, and people saying prayers to her. Even the Pope said you can not see/understand Christ except through Mary’s heart.

Did I miss something in the Bible? I hold Mary with respect, but I do not say prayers to her. It is a flase religion.

Over.

Mar 20, 2009 - 1:18 pm 128. Delia:

123. Pat J,

Sex is often used in the name of “HATE” and violence.

When something GOD gave us as a form of LOVE [be it self-love or mutual love with a life-partner] and procreation and that love is morphed into evil and perverted and weaponized destruction… We need to reassess what we as a ‘world’ are doing.

I’ve been married 22 years now. I’m probably more ’sexual’ than ever but I cannot fathom ’sex’ just for the sake of it. Making ‘love’ is beautiful and making ‘hate’ is a misogynistic XXXXXXX-rated horror show.

Mar 20, 2009 - 1:31 pm 129. Delia:

127. Leatherneck,

The worship and prayers to Saints as well as the Virgin Mary are Pagan rooted practices.

I was trying to avoid that ‘lecture’ I was tempted to give for today though. My [Catholic] husband and I have had many a ‘fun’ verbal fisticuffs over that particular subject since we’ve known each other.

-But, hey… I’m hardly one to judge. My half-sister left the Mormon church after she realized it was a CULT [special underwear even] and three children later. Her Mormon husband re-married and proceeded to gamble himself into deep debt and died via suicide.

Mar 20, 2009 - 1:40 pm 130. Chuck Pelto:

TO: David S
RE: Silly Boy

Because in both cases such “abstinence only” education fails to achieve the goal of reducing the behavior. “Just say no” has been a dismal failure as a drug education policy – why would we extend this failure into sex education? — David S

You’re not REALLY answering the question. Instead you’re ‘begging it’.

Explain why the vaunted American public education system ISN’T passing out clean hypodermic syringes and showing how to properly swab an area with isopropyl alcohol. Saving the Everclear for a chaser…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]

Mar 20, 2009 - 2:49 pm 131. Chuck Pelto:

TO: David S
RE: We DO?

We do and, and it’s called harm reduction, because that’s what it is. — David S

Please identify the school district and state where they’re passing out clean hypodermic syringes to students in the course of teaching safe-drug addiction.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You don't see any old drug addicts. - Rev. Ted Noffs]

P.S. They may LOOK ‘old’, but you’d be surprised at their age….

Mar 20, 2009 - 2:52 pm 132. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: Crime and Punishment

It’s high time we clean up this world. If there’s enough PROVEN evidence… Hang ‘em high and forget the ‘trial’. — Delia

Patience, dear lady. Patience. He’ll do that in His own good time. In the mean time, we should observe proper form.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape. -- Thomas Jefferson]

Mar 20, 2009 - 3:08 pm 133. Pat J:

128. Delia:
———–
Very nicely said.

Mar 20, 2009 - 5:02 pm 134. one of my own:

128. Delia . . . I’ve been married 22 years now. I’m probably more ’sexual’ than ever but I cannot fathom ’sex’ just for the sake of it. Making ‘love’ is beautiful.

Sounds really boring to me. I agree with Woody Allen when he says, “My therapist asked me if I thought sex was dirty, and I told him it is if you’re doing it right.”

*squishy eye blink with just a touch of crinkly wrinkly smile and a jiggle and a wriggle and a wretched baby talk giggle.*

Mar 20, 2009 - 5:03 pm 135. Delia:

132. Chuck Pelto,

You’re right. -And, here I’ve become the ‘chest thumper that I accused you of being’. HA!

Law [when actually applied] is important for all of us.

Sometimes the sickening things that happen in our world make me so angry I want ‘instant’ justice which does not exist.

-But, if anyone raped my daughter I’d be one of those folks that wouldn’t wait around for ‘justice’…sorry but that’s how I roll.

Mar 20, 2009 - 5:06 pm 136. Delia:

134. one of my own,

You are one sad, lonely soul. I feel pity for you. I hope you one day learn to appreciate life and love and the idea of ‘romance’. I’m going to say a prayer for you this evening.

Mar 20, 2009 - 5:09 pm 137. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: Indeed

Sometimes the sickening things that happen in our world make me so angry I want ‘instant’ justice which does not exist. — Delia

I can empathize. I was and still, on occasion, feel the same.

The last such wave of pure, unadulterated rage was when reading about the cannibalistic murder of a 10 year old girl last year this month. I’d been struck by what if it had been one of my daughters.

HERE’s the link to the story.

But I turned it over to Him to deal with. And a few minutes later, all the rage was gone. As if some ‘fireman’ had applied a water fog to the flaming rage.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. -- Matthew 11:28]

P.S. Got a problem? Give it to Him to help handle it…..

Mar 20, 2009 - 6:32 pm 138. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: one on her own

You’re right. If she’s telling us the truth, it IS sad. What’s even more sad is that she probably won’t listen to either of us, let alone anyone else. Too much ‘pride’.

Regards,

Chuck
[Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom. -- Proverbs]

Mar 20, 2009 - 6:37 pm 139. Wally Lind:

The Pope is always right, he is the Pope!

Mar 20, 2009 - 8:31 pm 140. vivo:

139. Wally Lind:

You wish . . .

Mar 21, 2009 - 3:04 am 141. Chuck Pelto:

TO: vivo
RE: ‘Wish’?

“You wish . . .” — vivo to Wally Lind

Well….

….let’s do a bit of compare and contrast betwixt the two of you.

Wally obviously has faith in an ideal. Based on all I’ve seen you post as long as I’ve noticed you, you have no faith in ANY ‘ideal’. And that includes yourself….as I see it.

Wally has the gonads to state his name here. You still hide behind a silly nom des blogs. What are you afraid of that Wally has the courage to stand in the open against?

Wally abides by a set of rules for living that ANYONE can read from the most published book on the face of Planet Earth. You, for all I can tell, make s— up as you go along. And, based on all I’ve seen you post in this venue, you can’t back up ANY of it with facts.

’nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation. -- Proverbs]

Mar 21, 2009 - 7:43 am 142. G Alston:

#119 — But history teaches otherwise. Sexual license destroys families. The immature think it legitimizes sexual license. No society can survive if sexual license become commonplace.

Syphilis was brought to Europe from the new world in the early 1500’s. It became so widespread that it’s been speculated that Henry VIII had it.

The presence of syphilis didn’t seem to adversely affect the umpteen million pre-columbian natives of the new world; they were largely wiped out by old world (non-sexual) diseases. Meanwhile depending on your source a great deal of Europe contracted syphilis. And of course this was at a time when god ruled and man had yet to really get hold of reason once again.

History apparently teaches you nonsense because it doesn’t like you.

Mar 21, 2009 - 8:31 am 143. Jbl:

This is excellent.

There is a blogger who likes to say that Bush was “the last American President” and that Benedict will be the last Pope. She may mean Benedict is “the last European”. Or maybe it’s the same thing.

Mar 21, 2009 - 2:47 pm 144. Jbl:

Leatherneck: “Also, I would like the Pope to tell folks to stop worshiping Mary. She was fully human, she is dead, and can not hear your prayers. She is not co-Regent with Christ. Thank you.”

You should, instead of lecturing the Catholics, find out what they actually believe. They believe Mary was fully human and is dead. They believe – as all Christians say they do – in the Communion of Saints, the great “cloud of witnesses” and (I know this will shock you) they believe that Christians have ETERNAL LIFE. Meaning after death they are STILL alive in Christ, in Heaven and yes, they can “hear” you ask for prayers and they can pray for you. They don’t believe she is “co-regent” with Christ. But they do believe that as Scripture says, “from this day all creation will call me blessed” and they follow Jesus’ example in honoring her as when he says “blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey,” which is WHAT HIS MOTHER DID.

Grow up. Learn what you don’t know. Thank you.

Mar 21, 2009 - 2:58 pm 145. Kim B.:

According to the Harvard study, monogamy is the most effective tool in preventing the spread of AIDS in Africa. Those who are more comfortable with science than religion should ignore the Pope & review the findings of this 25 year study from a leading expert. Kathryn Jean Lopez wrote an excellent piece on this for the National Review website this week.

Mar 21, 2009 - 8:08 pm 146. vivo:

141. Chuck Pelto:

“Wally has the gonads to state his name here. You still hide behind a silly nom des blogs. What are you afraid of that Wally has the courage to stand in the open against?”

Who cares what my name is? Who cares who John Pelto is? Is that your real name? If it is, who cares? Who cares who Wally is?

“Wally abides by a set of rules for living that ANYONE can read from the most published book on the face of Planet Earth. You, for all I can tell, make s— up as you go along. And, based on all I’ve seen you post in this venue, you can’t back up ANY of it with facts.”

The most published book on Earth is full of vagaries, untruths and just plain idiocy. Some of it is interesting and illuminating. So his quoting source is immaterial.

I don’t need to quote any back up, you can look it up yourself. I also don’t have the time or the PhD mind you have. Just pay attention and use any common sense you may have.

Now I have to go back and install my new printer/copier/scanner/fax toy.

Mar 21, 2009 - 11:32 pm 147. Chuck Pelto:

TO: vivo
RE: You…

Who cares what my name is? — vivo

…are gutless.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. And based on your last line, ’stupid’ as well. I’ll bet you’d buy one of those television-cum-DVD-cum-VHS players…..

Mar 22, 2009 - 3:01 am 148. Marie Claude:

Kim, very wise, that was also the roman church message in middle-ages over the still alive pagan influences, that can be seen in churches and cathedrals dating from thesse ages, small sculptures called “modillons” and “capitals” have some porn narrations, they were tolerated because they are set far enough from glances, this was allowed to the artist that only could express freely there, but nonentheless, church used them as teachings for countering deviant behaviours.

Mar 22, 2009 - 8:14 am 149. Mike Blackadder:

#120 Middleman: “Abstinence sure doesn’t work in the US and it most certainly won’t work in Africa.
Humans are sexual beings and will not sit and wait until marriage.”

Actually abstinence does work, but that’s obvious. Also, many people do sit and wait until marriage for no other reason than being disciplined and having deep respect for their future as a married person. Now in the case of Africa, there is a far more pragmatic incentive to abstain, but that’s obvious too.

The left hates religion (particularly Catholicism) to such an extent that they can not see the good in what the Pope is saying. You claim his message is futile, but hypocritically cling to the failed policy of distributing condoms.

I see the utility in the Pope’s message, even if pragmatism is not what inspires him. However I do agree that this message of morality amongst Africans is not going to solve the epidemic on its own. What is lacking in Africa is not condoms but the rule of law (that respects individual rights) and basic education (which would benefit from teachings from Christianity).

Mar 22, 2009 - 9:04 am 150. Mike Blackadder:

Oh and the Pope is not going to solve that problem (ie. instilling the rule of law) unless he feels like reviving the Crusades. Ha, I knew I could work that in somehow.

Mar 22, 2009 - 9:14 am 151. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Mike Blackadder, et al.
RE: These People….

Actually abstinence does work, but that’s obvious. — Mike Blackadder

…will never admit that abstinence works. They’re like that character from the local public health department I listened to and challenged a week and a half ago (see item #69 of this thread). And they can’t prove their approaches are better. Indeed. I think they REFUSE to prove it. Just like that woman from the local public health department doesn’t think it’s necessary for her to keep statistics on the ’success’ of her self-serving, i.e., her bowl of rice, programs.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life is a bowl of merde and statistics is the spoon.]

Mar 22, 2009 - 9:26 am 152. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Sure….

The left hates religion (particularly Catholicism) to such an extent that they can not see the good in what the Pope is saying. — Mike Blackadder

….the left hates religion. EVERY religion except their own, which is that they worship themselves.

You claim his message is futile, but hypocritically cling to the failed policy of distributing condoms. — Mike Blackadder

It’s the old jedi mind-trick. They’re trying to convince you that you’re wrong. But some of us are mentally strong enough to require of them evidence to prove their point.

And yet, we see all the time that they cannot provide any such evidence. So your assertion that they are ‘hypocrites’ is VERY accurate.

[Where there is no religion, hypocrisy becomes good taste.]

Mar 22, 2009 - 9:30 am 153. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Mike Blackadder, et al.
RE: The Pope & Solving the ‘Problem’

….the Pope is not going to solve that problem (ie. instilling the rule of law)…. — Mike Blackadder

It’s not part of his job description, based on my understanding. Rather it is God’s position. And He probably won’t use a ‘Crusade’. I expect something more along what He said….

Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. — Hebrews 12:26-27

And it ain’t gonna be ‘pretty’ when it happens. Indeed, it will be as described elsewhere in that Old Book.

And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. — Luke 17:26

We’ll see what happens. And I suspect it will happen in my own lifetime. But that’s just my impression of how bad things have gotten here. And I patiently wonder when He is going to act. Personally? I think the sooner the better.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The waiting for the action to begin is the tedious part of any operation.]

Mar 22, 2009 - 10:01 am 154. Delia:

-I just wanted to mention I meant no insult against Catholics. I’ve been married to one for 22 years so I obviously love people of that religion too. My hub and I do get into some theological arguments at times but we are the loveable “Bickersons”… LOL!

Mar 22, 2009 - 12:14 pm 155. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: [OT] ‘Discussions’ with Catholics

A good friend of mine is a practicing Catholic. We had a wonderful discussion about the movie ‘Dogma’ over fine scotch, snacks and cigars on night. It started with the movie beginning at 9 pm and ended about 2 am.

A fine time was had by all.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A friend is a person with whom I may be sincere. Before him I may think aloud. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson]

Mar 22, 2009 - 12:28 pm 156. nmgazg:

eayhqgwhsirliebeoxskswgjsujegf

Mar 22, 2009 - 1:25 pm 157. Delia:

155. Chuck Pelto,

“Dogma”? That movie was WHAAAAAAAAACK! How much scotch did it take for you to sit through that hot mess? Alanis Morissette as GOD of all things too. LOL!

Be sincere, Chuck. I appreciate sincerity. Thanks for not minding my ‘thinking aloud’ too. I *do* have a habit of telling it off the cuff but that’s my way of being honest [typos and all ha-ha].

Mar 22, 2009 - 2:34 pm 158. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: The Funniest Part….

….was Alan Rickman’s appearance as the ‘Voice’ in the heroine’s bedroom.

RE: The ‘Discussion’….

….was over the ‘dogma’ about Jesus being an only-child of Mary and Joseph.

Not that it REALLY matters vis-a-vis Christ. He is what He is. Nothing more nor anything less. What the Roman Catholics make of his mother and any or all of his brothers and sisters, by her or otherwise, is just an excuse for disobeying His commandments to the rest of us.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. It is my personal and honestly held opinion that the Roman Catholics fell into the same pit/pratfall that the Pharisees did.

These ‘latter days’, they’re trying to pull themselves out of said pit. And I wish more power to them…..

Mar 22, 2009 - 3:16 pm 159. Delia:

158. Chuck Pelto,

Another whacko ‘Hollyweird’ movie was the movie “Michael” *cough-sputter* with *double cough-sputter* “John Travolta” the ‘Sci-Fientologist’ himself playing the lead ‘Angel’ role. Let’s not even touch on “Jesus Christ Superstar” circa 70’s. LOL!

God? All I know for sure is that I hope He/She exists because prayer helps me get through my hardships and forgive my imperfections. I have my pride but I know that my faults are plenty and my temper being one of those faults. Any/all gifts I have I know come from God and my blessings from him are plenty. My life growing up was a hard and bitter lesson and I grew up very fast to survive but the traumas I endured throughout my childhood taught me to realize the ‘GOOD’ in my life when I grew older and escaped the horrors that no child/young girl should ever go through.

When I have nightmares of my past and wake up in a cold sweat with my heart beating as if it wants to escape my chest I pray to God and to Jesus to calm me down. Nine times out of ten prayer works for me better than any ‘pill’ could.
~

As to topic?

Putting a condom on an STD infected Peen doesn’t make that particular ‘appendage’ truly ‘SAFE’.

****WARNING-ADULT NSFW LINK****:

For Vivo:

http://www.realdoll.com/

Mar 22, 2009 - 6:14 pm 160. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Delia
RE: [OT] Michael and Others

I had a bad feeling about it and City of Angels the moment I heard of them.

I had some thoughts about seeing Frailty, but thought better of it. [Note: A long story about an encounter with a rep from that 'other' camp. Thanks to a practitioner of wicca.....]

RE: The Power of Prayer

With you on that. Especially waking in the middle of the night with a deep sense of dread, verging on outright terror. [Note: Reference note immediately above.] Prayer literally killed the attack before it got into the room, that second night. I could hear the screaming, like a demented crow having its wings ripped off. Then I felt a deep sense of relief and comfort. Rolled over and went right back to sleep.

The whole experience was (1) dreadful, (2) educational, (3) ‘empowering’ and (4) proof-positive to me that He is there for us at our calling.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[There's more to this world than meets the eye.]

Mar 23, 2009 - 12:44 am 161. vivo:

159. Delia:

“realdoll”

Your picture is not bad. No wonder you get some replies.

Mar 23, 2009 - 3:00 am 162. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Obviously vivo…

Your picture is not bad. No wonder you get some replies. — vivo

….IS a REAL dumb-bunny.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.]

Mar 23, 2009 - 3:52 am 163. Some Housekeeping | The Anchoress:

[...] Harvard “AIDS expert” says The Pope is correct about condoms and AIDS. Andrew Klavan, who is not a Catholic agrees and has more. [...]

Mar 23, 2009 - 7:10 am 164. deguello:

Chuck Pelto: Is that the best YOU can offer? Christ, God, and similar vaporous nonsense? Keep tweaking! regards!

Mar 23, 2009 - 9:29 am 165. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: [OT] It….

Is that the best YOU can offer? Christ, God, and similar vaporous nonsense? — deguello

…doesn’t get any better than that.

But being totally ‘ignorant’….and probably proud of it too boot….you can’t grasp the concept.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Jesus astonishes and overpowers sensual people. They cannot unite him to history, or reconcile him with themselves. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson]

Mar 23, 2009 - 11:19 am 166. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Anytime you think you can prove God doesn’t exist, feel free to trot out your ‘proof’…..

Mar 23, 2009 - 11:37 am 167. myth buster:

BTW, there are some cultists who do worship Mary. They are not Catholics, but they call themselves Catholics.

Mar 23, 2009 - 7:40 pm 168. deguello:

166 Chuck Pelto: 2 words: Human History. I rest my case. PS. You really ought to lay off the condescension Chuck;it comes off as vain,and vanity,is a variant of pride one of the seven capital sins you christers are always ranting about.I Loved the quote from153;it’s reminiscent of the script from the monty Python Skit called”The society for putting things on top of other things:” I will shake but not what I won’t shake,or maybe I’ll shake it again? Does God shake his booty?.”Or maybe james Bond:G-d seems to also prefer his “shaken not stirred”!

Mar 24, 2009 - 9:00 am 169. Pat J:

Deguello. When you get past Chuck’s memos, you can actually see he has some actual values. You obviously don’t.

Mar 24, 2009 - 11:11 am 170. deguello:

Values! Talk of values from a libtard! How surreal!How offensively hypocritical,how grotesque;it’s like madonna delivering a lecture on chastity at the local stop and preach!

Mar 24, 2009 - 2:27 pm 171. deguello:

#165: Chuck Pelto:’The Beautiful and the sensual astonish and overpower pious people.They are blissfully separated from history,and need no reconciliation with the world.” Ralph Waldo Paganson. BTW: Did you know that Emerson was a major influence on Nietzsche?

Mar 24, 2009 - 2:40 pm 172. Some Housekeeping | Politics:

[...] Harvard “AIDS expert” says The Christian is precise most condoms and AIDS. saint Klavan, who is not a Christian agrees and has more. [...]

Mar 24, 2009 - 10:52 pm 173. Pat J:

170. deguello:

Values! Talk of values from a libtard! How surreal!How offensively hypocritical,how grotesque;it’s like madonna delivering a lecture on chastity at the local stop and preach!
——————-
What are you? Fourteen?

Mar 25, 2009 - 7:39 am 174. deguello:

What are you? An ageist? Thanks for repeating my post.

Mar 25, 2009 - 8:07 am 175. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: That’s a ‘Case’??!!?!

166 Chuck Pelto: 2 words: Human History. I rest my case. — deguello

You TRULY are ‘ignorant’ AND ‘proud of it’. Human history is proven in that Old Book.

You better look at some professor at Queen’s University in Belfast and his studies on tree-ring growth and compare it against the timeline of ‘human history’. I think you’ll find somethink ’shocking’ vis-a-vis ‘human history’ and that Old Book. Pay particular attention to something captured in trees around the world, the legend of Gilgamesh and the recount of some ‘great flood’. And there are other such ‘events’ recorded in the ‘tree rings’, ‘human history’ and that Old Book.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....and you won't look very good because of it.....]

Mar 26, 2009 - 10:13 am 176. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. The professor’s name is Michael Baille…..

And here’s a link a link to something he ‘discovered’ in his research.

Enjoy…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Crow is a dish best eaten while it's fresh.]

Mar 26, 2009 - 10:16 am 177. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: I Can’t Help It….

Did you know that Emerson was a major influence on Nietzsche? — deguello

…if ’stupid’ people can’t understand plain English. And wasn’t Nietzsche ‘German’?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
['God is dead.' -- Nietzsche, c. 1895. 'Nietzsche is dead.' -- God, today]

P.S. If you wish to follow a dead fool, that’s your prerogative….

Mar 26, 2009 - 10:19 am 178. David S:

@177. Chuck Pelto:

If you wish to follow a dead fool, that’s your prerogative….

That’s a great piece of wisdom, Chuck – happy trails.

Peace.

DS

Mar 26, 2009 - 1:06 pm 179. deguello:

Your comments on Nietzsche don’t reflect well on you. Yes, I have read Gilgamesh(try the John Gardner translation) and also, Unamuno’s The Tragic Sense of Life.The latter will give you a more nuanced insight into the nature of belief/unbelief.There is lots of geological evidence for the flood stories;this doesn’t mean that Charlton Heston caused it.

Mar 26, 2009 - 1:21 pm 180. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: Ask Me If…

“Your comments on Nietzsche don’t reflect well on you.” — deguello

….I’m overtly worried about what YOU think of ME.

By the way….with regards to….

“….this doesn’t mean that Charlton Heston caused it.” — deguello

You OBVIOUSLY have not been doing your ‘homework’, as suggested in my comment at item #176 of this thread.

Dense? Or worse?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. You might get a clue by matching up that movie with one of the Talmuds.

Mar 26, 2009 - 3:18 pm 181. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: David S & Desperation

“That’s a great piece of wisdom, Chuck – happy trails.” — David S

One has to wonder if he’ll pay any REAL attention? Or don’t they pay him enough?

Personally? I have serious doubts….

…if he were ’serious’, he’d be doing a lot more than saying ‘Happy trails.’

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Mercenary, n., One paid to do something he has no responsibility for.....he thinks..... -- CBPelto]

Mar 26, 2009 - 3:31 pm 182. Pat J:

Pendejo should just say hasta la vista and call it a day. Game, match Pelto.

Mar 26, 2009 - 6:41 pm 183. Paul -Indiana:

#127. We pray to Mary to intercede for us to God, but she is not God and we don’t place her in that position.

Mar 27, 2009 - 4:40 am 184. deguello:

Chuck:When I told you your comments on Nietzsche did not reflect well on you; it wasn’t my opinion I was thinking of;it was an attempt to prevent you from making an ass of yourself in front of the many educated readers of PJM.In the civilized world Chuck your Nietzsche remark would mark you as an ignorant ass.Clearly, you prefer to pander to libtard halfwits who think you are scoring debating points with creationist nonsense,Than dealwith serious intellects like Nietzsche’s,let alone Darwin.Your little tirades reveal an intelligent,but wilfully ignorant, preposterusly, condescending,arrogantly ignorant mind.You missed your century, and your calling Chuck;you could have been a fairly successful Jesuit,or maybe an Inquisitor’s pR man.

Mar 27, 2009 - 8:58 am 185. deguello:

PAT J 182# Please congratulate your special; ed. teacher; She succeded, in making a retard write a few words of Spanish. Now get yourself an occupational therapist to teach you bowling, and you can challenge Obama to a game.Maybe you’ll even win!

Mar 27, 2009 - 9:03 am 186. deguello:

DAVID S: A Stalinist thug, who wants to repeal the secret union ballot, interested in theology:will wonders ever cease. Then again, Stalin dropped out of a seminary, the libtard Pat J believes in creationism,and thinks that liberals have values.Maybe you both need to take antischizoid medication.

Mar 27, 2009 - 9:14 am 187. Delia:

I totally p0wn3ed vivo. LOL!

Mar 27, 2009 - 4:28 pm 188. Chuck Pelto:

TO: deguello
RE: Ignorant? Ass?

In the civilized world Chuck your Nietzsche remark would mark you as an ignorant ass. — deguello

Can’t argue logically, so the only think you have to offer is insult? How apropos of ‘projection’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Show me your Mensa membership ID number and I’ll call you ‘bro’…..

Mar 28, 2009 - 11:19 am 189. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Thoughts on ‘Ignorance’

Thinking upon the comments by deguello here, and on others from other venues, I have to say that the only TRULY ‘ignorant’ people I’ve ever encountered are those who cannot or will not honestly look at evidence.

This deguello person strikes me as being one of those. And the only reason I can think that he/she behaves this way is a serious problem with ‘pride’. This has always been the most crucial problem with atheists. They cannot admit to anyone, let alone anything, being more important than themselves.

And whenever someone starts offering evidence that they may be mistaken. Especially evidence from a scientific background, they get VERY ‘upset’. Hence deguello resorting to insults.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You know you're getting close to the 'target', because they start throwing more 'flak' at you. -- US Air Force axiom]

Mar 28, 2009 - 12:46 pm 190. deguello:

Chuckie you really ARE an ignorant ass!

Mar 31, 2009 - 1:47 pm 191. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: As I Was Saying…

“Chuckie you really ARE an ignorant ass!” — deguello

….projection lets us ALL appreciate the truth of a matter.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]

Apr 1, 2009 - 2:54 pm 192. Joe Herbert:

With the Masters starting, shouts of “you da man” will be heard as Tiger tees off. To Andrew Klavan I say “YOU DA MAN!” I love it when you tee off. . . Happy Easter Friends!

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:23 am

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