** MCCAIN TO CALL FOR “LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN.” No, wait, that’s another movie. In a speech tomorrow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution, Senator John McCain will call for a League of Democracies. McCain has been getting a tremendous amount of knocks after his rough start in this race, which has seen his Republican presidential frontrunner’s role usurped by Rudy Giuliani — who now has his own share of trouble — but I think he is due for a resurgence. No matter what happens with the “surge” in Iraq.
What would McCain’s LXG do? Act against the genocide in Darfur, fight AIDS around the world, work on the greenhouse effect, promote free trade, and intervene against dictatorships when Russia and China hold the UN Security Council back.
** AARP STARTS TV AD CAMPAIGN FOR COMPREHENSIVE CALIFORNIA HEALTH CARE PLAN. The American Association of Retired People today began a $3 million TV advertising campaign on behalf of a comprehensive California health care program not unlike that talked about by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Expect more such advertising campaigns to emerge in the next few weeks.
** VILLARAIGOSA. WHY SO LOW PROFILE? For someone who’s become so unrelentingly prominent, LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa was remarkably low key at the convention this past weekend. He made no public appearances other than the Saurday night banquet honoring House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, which only a couple of journalists bothered to attend.
** ANTONIO AND GAVIN. I WONDER WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom are said to have met privately during the California Democratic Party convention. The two were supposed to be hot rivals for the 2010 Democratic gubernatorial nomination, until Newsom stumbled into a sex scandal earlier this year. From which he seems to be emerging relatively unscathed, at least insofar as his re-election this year as mayor is concerned.
** A NEW LEADER? OBAMA OVERTAKES CLINTON IN A POLL. Longtime NWN readers know that I am not a fan of the Rasmussen poll. It’s a robopoll, and I like those about as much as Internet polls. And while the Rasmussen ending numbers are usually on the money, my experience in California is that the numbers can be way off with regard to other, highly accurate polls while the campaign is still underway. That said, a trend is a trend, particularly when the methodology remains the same. And the trend in Rasmussen, as in last week’s Wall Street Journal poll, in which Hillary Clinton’s lead dropped to five points, is all towards Barack Obama in the Democratic presidential race.
In the Rasmussen national poll released today, for the first time someone other than Hillary Clinton has an edge. It’s Obama, with a statistically insignificant two-point edge over Clinton, 32% to 30%. (John Edwards is third with 17%.) Last week, they were dead even at 30% to 30%. The week before, Clinton had a two-point edge, the week before that it was five, and the week preceding seven. In the poll before that, Obama was 12 points behind.
In this poll, Clinton still has a two-point edge among Democrats. But among independents judged likely to vote in the Democratic primaries, Obama has a clear edge.
If this is accurate, the stubborn Republican position here in California against allowing independents to vote in their primary may help swing the biggest primary election against Hillary, who they say they want to run against.
** EDITING. Incidentally, I have a lot of video to go through and edit. And some rest and other life things wouldn’t be a bad idea before the Republican presidential debate at the Reagan Library. All the video footage was shot handheld with a pocket video camera, some of it on the move. I have a small tripod, but it still gets in the way and is a bit too conspicuous. There’s not going to be a lot of slick, action movie-style special effects. Although I do shake the camera some for that handheld, cinema verite look …
** SPECIAL COMMISSION REPORT EXCORIATES ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER FOR LAST SUMMER’S WAR. A special commission of the Israeli government, investigating last summer’s war with Hezbollah, has issued a blistering set of criticisms of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, the nation’s defense minister, and the military’s former chief of staff. The war, which ended for Israel in a disappointing stalemate, was botched from start to finish, from its conception to its execution, according to the Winograd Committee. Prior to this Olmert’s job approval rating was already down to single digits.
** BAY AREA FREEWAY COLLAPSE. By now, many of you know, perhaps all too well, of the collapse early Sunday morning of a portion of the freeway maze leading off the Bay Bridge from San Francisco to Oakland. A speeding gasoline truck, out of control, crashed and the ensuing fire was so hot that it melted the metal undergirdings. This was much like the phenomenon which brought down the World Trade Center. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency, but it will probably take months to repair the damage. Here is a list of alternate routes provided by Schwarzenegger’s longtime press aide Darrell Ng, now spokesman for the state’s Business, Transportation & Housing Agency. Today is a free public transit day in the Bay Area.
From San Francisco to Hayward
· Eastbound I-80 to South bound I-880
From San Francisco to Walnut Creek
· E/B I-80 and exit West Grand
· Left on NorthGate Street
· Enter on ramp to Eastbound I-580 towards SR-24
· Take E/B SR-24 to Interstate 680
From San Francisco to Sacramento
· Eastbound I-80 to Sacramento (no detour)
From San Francisco to East Bay
· S/B US-101 to E/B SR-92
· SR-92 to Interstate I-880 North or South bound
From San Francisco to East Bay (2nd alternate)
· S/B US-101 to E/B SR-84
· SR-84 E/B to Interstate I-880 North or South bound
From San Francisco to East Bay (3rd alternate)
· N/B US-101 to Richmond/San Rafael Bridge Eastbound (I-580)
· Westbound Richmond/San Rafael Bridge (I-580) to Interstate 80 West
From Richmond to San Jose
· W/B 80 to E/B I-580
· From E/B I-580 to W/B 980
· W/B 980 to S/B I-880
From Richmond to San Francisco
· W/B I-80 to San Francisco Bay Bridge (no detours)
San Francisco to East Bay
· E/B I-80 and exit Albany/Buchanon ramp.
· Turn left under the freeway
· Left onto W/B 80
· Take W/B 80 to E/B I-580
** Track global and national energy prices in near real time via Bloomberg. Crude oil prices are around $66 per barrel.
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67 Comments
Jonas Blane:Nice public service for a terrible accident.
Apr 30, 2007 - 9:56 am Bill Bradley:Public service, that’s what NWN is all about.
Apr 30, 2007 - 10:23 am Ann:What a disaster off the Bay Bridge. I’m listening to KCBS and it sounds awful. I’m glad I don’t have to go that way.
Apr 30, 2007 - 10:35 am Bill Bradley:Amen.
Apr 30, 2007 - 10:52 am richard locicero:What a mess! Used to live up there and I can’t imagine what traffic will be like. Everyone better take BART!
Apr 30, 2007 - 10:54 am carole w:Can I still drive up 101, from So Cal to Santa Rosa using the 101?
Apr 30, 2007 - 11:22 am Bill Bradley:Unless you are planning to take 80 across the Bay Bridge to Oakland for an excursion in the East Bay or a trip to the capital.
101 bears to the left as you get into San Francisco and goes across the Golden Gate Bridge.
80 bears to the right and goes across the Bay Bridge.
Apr 30, 2007 - 11:27 am carole w:Thank You:)
Apr 30, 2007 - 11:31 am Bill Bradley:Political analysis and trip planning.
Apr 30, 2007 - 11:38 am Ann:Oh my gawd, is that poll right?
Apr 30, 2007 - 12:18 pm Barbara:On:SPECIAL COMMISSION REPORT
It was expected…full report is due this summer….it is sad and serious..very bad timing for Israel to have such lousy political leadership…the Chief of Staff was forced to resign sometime ago…PM Olmert and peretz(/defense minister) if they had some decency should have too…just hope this realist/pragmatic new billionaire Russian on the scene can keep Netanyahu and Lieberman from total power grab when Olmert is forced out…Beilin needs to give it his all, not give up now…he is the only one who has the vision to see Israel into a new era….
Apr 30, 2007 - 12:23 pm CADTS:In SF, I gotta say the commute wasn’t too bad on the roads.I had to go out to the East Bay (Contra Costa)and I took I-80 to CA-4. No traffic at all.
But it is really an interesting site to see girders melted like plastic toy soldiers under a flame….
Apr 30, 2007 - 12:27 pm Capitol Boy:The guys jumping on the Clinton bandwagon gotta be asking themselves.
Apr 30, 2007 - 12:45 pm Ann:How do you commute from Sacramento to Sacramento?
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:01 pm CADTS:Sorry Babs, I am a little lost…who is Beilin again? He is the Labor Party leader?
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:01 pm carole w:what about the + or - 4% error?
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:19 pm Bill Bradley:That’s what “statistically insignificant” means.
The trend is not.
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:26 pm larry:I read something interesting the other day. In the spring of 1991, the year before the 1992 election, Bill Clinton was barely a blip on the national polling screen. So while poll results are fun to watchand to discuss, what’s happening in April, 2007, is like the second inning score in a baseball game. It may or may not give any insight ito the 2008 game winner.
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:32 pm Bill Bradley:True of past elections, as well.
But there are major differences.
For example, when Gary Hart made his national breakthrough by finishing a surprise second in Iowa, that first-in-the-nation contest took place on … February 20th!
This thing will be over by then.
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:35 pm Brasky:Has the veneer of the inevitable finally cracked? Start watching the “undecided” numbers among Dems and Independents – it might start growing.
For those on the Obama email list, post their spin of this poll when you can.
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:44 pm Brasky:Other than California, how many early primary states allow non-dems to vote for a democratic presidential candidate?
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:56 pm Barbara:yes, Yossi Beilin is from Labour Party, he now is a leader of left of center party Meretz…he has been advocating for a Palestinian state for decades…I went with him and some others to meet with the Mayor of Bethlehem in 1982 to discuss the occupation of the “territories” (West Bank and Gaza) He was also the author of the Oslo Accords with current PLA leader Abbas…brilliant mind and was screwed politically by Peres, (who I find personally a very sel serving, highly duplicitous person)… as he did some other glowing young, gifted dedicated,talents around him…More than anyone else Peres put Amiram Nir in a vulnerable and eventually fatal situation… But doesn’t matter, he will have a big funeral full of world leaders crowing what a great guy he was…I will remember other things about him…
Apr 30, 2007 - 1:57 pm Barbara:BTW…if you read the Winograd report or even just the articles detailing it …the criticisms sound all too familiar…Olmert who is the most average of politicians was always too much influenced by the Bush admin, in particular, he had too many visits and telephone calls with Eliot Abrams…
I also think Abrams set up Pelosi to appear that she mis-represented Israel in Damascus…Olmert was used ..and I am told Olmert apologized to Pelosi after the press bruhaha…although that appears to have gone pretty much unreported…
Apr 30, 2007 - 2:24 pm CADTS:Was this my question?
My only answer would be to take a lot of left turns!!!
Ann :
How do you commute from Sacramento to Sacramento?
Apr 30, 2007 01:01 PM
Apr 30, 2007 - 2:34 pm Barbara:Brasky”For those on the Obama email list, post their spin of this poll when you can.”
I’m on it …I get emails from him, and Durbin!…but I can’t post anything there because I have a”Barbara rule” …I only post here at NWN!!!…
Well, the poll trend does not surprise me…those crowds he draws has to mean something!…I just worry about women…still meet too many women over 45 that are absolutely giddy about Hillary…I hope they don’t have the numbers and therefore the ability to ruin it for everyone …With Obama, we finally have a candidate, I think the first, for the 21st century …ready to take us there with him and lead and meet all its challenges…I have been waiting since Jan 1 2000 for someone in politics like Obama…seems like forever…I am glad he is here, and I am happy he is running, and now I am praying he wins.
Apr 30, 2007 - 2:37 pm Brasky:Babs:
I think the poll trend is important for all the other dem candidates. If it is no longer inevitable that Hillary is the nominee, all the other candidates get the benefit of being considered again. This should help Obama, Richardson and Edwards (I hope). Richardson’s comments about “rock stars and legacies” at convention comes to mind.
We must know very different women – many I know haven’t decided which candidate they like, other than they don’t like Hilary.
Apr 30, 2007 - 2:44 pm Barbara:Brasky:We must know very different women – many I know haven’t decided which candidate they like, other than they don’t like Hilary
Oh Good!…you being a man, probably know more women than me!
I actually don’t know any women supporting Clinton except one at work and she is in her sixties…(and Carole here at NWN!) but I thought the polls were saying her “strength” was from women…I figured those would be mostly but not all …from that group that I call the “firsts” …and they are her age give or take 10 years…
In any event, I just hope Obama can do this…he is the ultimate “kickstarter” and does this country ever need a kickstarter as president!…there are some really bad signs out there…
Apr 30, 2007 - 2:55 pm CADTS:Edwards apparently stole the show at the California convention…apparently a lot of CA Dems are seriously reconsidering the “Hillary” or “Obama” option. Also, Richardson was equally impressive — his speech was on target on things like immigration.
Apr 30, 2007 - 3:02 pm Brasky:Babs — most of the women I know are politically “DTS”, even though most are registered “Dem.” I think this is really a different population than most polls are reaching at a national level. I can see a lot of Dems and Dem women voting for Hilary, but not a lot of DTS voters of either sex.
Apr 30, 2007 - 3:12 pm Ann:That’s right CADTS, how you end up where you started! lol
Apr 30, 2007 - 3:48 pm Brasky:I’m sure Antonio is getting a lot of pressure to endorse a presidential candidate. He probably couldn’t wait for convention to be over.
Apr 30, 2007 - 4:17 pm Capitol Boy:I wonder how many even in their districts care what those assemblymen/women do for President.
Apr 30, 2007 - 4:21 pm Juan Cortina:re: “I’m sure Antonio is getting a lot of pressure to endorse a presidential candidate.”
I don’t know, it seems more likely that he’s waiting for a good time to make an announcement.
Apr 30, 2007 - 4:28 pm Ann:I know, he’s endorsing Angerlides again! Hey, was he at the convention?
Apr 30, 2007 - 4:35 pm Hap Hazard:CB - we aren’t sure how many in the districts even know who the Assembly member is, let alone care about their presidential endorsements. I think most of the members choose on the basis of what cool receptions and other events to which they might get invited, and/or they want to continue as a member of their favorite committees and work out of their current office suites.
Interesting questions about Antonio V. I think he simply doesn’t love the party events as much as, say Gavin N. Also, I believe he is much more moderate than most party activists, the principal attendees, and isn’t going to get the accolades that perhaps others would get, and to whom he would be compared.
Apr 30, 2007 - 5:02 pm Barbara:There is a report out that thousands of demonstrators will meet in Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square on May 3 calling for the resignation of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz as a result of the Winograd Committee report on summer/2006 Israeli-Hezbollah conflict….
Apr 30, 2007 - 5:09 pm Bill Bradley:Yeah, I don’t know how a premier retains office with such a low approval rating, especially in the wake of such a devastating report on the “preparation” for war.
Apr 30, 2007 - 5:40 pm Mike:Villaraigosa will run for Governor, Newsom will for Boxer’s Senate seat against Steve Westly?
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:04 pm Jonas Blane:What about Jerry Brown, seems like that dude can kick anybody’s ass out there who isn’t Schwarzenegger till he’s about 80 or something.
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:06 pm Capitol Boy:The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I love it.
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:13 pm Barbara:Olmert polls at 2- 3 percent! it’s amazing…I will tell you how he has so far …Israelis see their options: Netanyahu, Peres or Barak, possibly Livne …and think Yuk! ..it’s a terrible time…I spoke with a good girl friend earlier, her first war as a soldier was the Yom Kippur 1973…anyway…she reminded me that thhis has happened before …a report followed the YK war finding many miscalulations but did not hold the government of Golda meir personally responsible…(her gov included Alon, Rabin, Peres, Dyan) What did Golda do when the report was issued?…She resigned! This political midget, Olmert announced he is not going to resign…it will be interesting to see if the public forces the issue…
meanwhile on also May 3, US meets up with Iranians over Iraq in Egypt…
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:13 pm Bill Bradley:As you know, when you are at 2 or 3 percent you are within the margin of error. Olmert could have zero percent job approval. That means I am probably a more credible Prime Minister of Israel.
Which is to say … not so much.
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:17 pm Barbara:well it is going on 5 am Tues morning in Israel…I can’t call any friends for yet 2-3 hours…HaAretz has at least one article suggesting that Peres (Kadima) and in Olmert’s party & cabinet, who was prepping to be President as his last hurrah would be back as PM…if that is true…I hope he brings in Yossi as FM …he sure as heck owes him… or if Livni won’t go somewhere else then as a chief negotiator for peace plan - 2 state solution…maybe some good can come out of this…I am going riding …toodles…
One good thing already has …Winograd Report will ensure no large scale incursion into Gaza…
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:43 pm Bill Bradley:Okay, the question was: Which of the four early states before California allow independents to vote in the Democratic presidential contest?
The answer is:
Nevada.
New Hampshire.
South Carolina.
Apr 30, 2007 - 6:53 pm Jonathan Hemlock:I believe that Mr. Obama has eliminated Ms. Clinton’s lead, financially, popularly, and coolly. She has a tremendous conundrum facing her. What to do? Without making it worse.
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:20 pm Ann:Schwarzeneger is still moving ahead on his health care plan then?
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:26 pm Bill Bradley:Yes.
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:27 pm Sacramento Solon:So, what happens on “24″ this evening?
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:42 pm Bill Bradley:I’m willing to wait.
Fox quickly cancelled the new lead-in , Drive, which premiered just a couple weeks ago after the great guilty pleasure Prison Break finished its second season.
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:47 pm Sacramento Solon:It was cancelled? Already? Amazing…
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:52 pm Bill Bradley:Hey, network TV is a dog eat dog world.
The series was promoted the hell out of, it got a 2-hour pilot, two episodes, and then that was that.
Someitme I’ll tell you the story of a series I was consulting producer on a few years ago, got middle of the pack ratings, then still got cancelled in favor of a series that barely got half the ratings.
Crazy business.
Apr 30, 2007 - 7:58 pm Sacramento Solon:I kept watching the promos knowing I would never watch the program. Appeared a little too strange.
Look forward to the tale. Perhaps if we all behave you will give it to us as a holiday gift.
Apr 30, 2007 - 8:03 pm Bill Bradley:Drive had a great premise. Now I see it’s replaced by reruns of my late mom’s favorite show, House.
Yikes.
The show I mentioned was nominated for an Emmy. But it didn’t get picked up.
Today, with the ratings it had, it would get a Sunday slot.
That whole business is very hit or miss.
Apr 30, 2007 - 8:11 pm Sacramento Solon:I’m not a big TV person. Watch sports, news and a couple other things. Only series I watch is “24″ and that’s only because you guys got me hooked.
The promos for Drive I saw didn’t grab me. But, guess that’s why they have lots of channels and an off button!
Apr 30, 2007 - 8:21 pm Bill Bradley:Truly look forward to reading the story about the program. Bet it’s more interesting than Drive could ever be!
So … right wingers have been emailing why McCain’s League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is a bad idea.
Because, uh, he uses the word “collective.”
Let’s see, could I put the right wing zanies and the left wing zanies into a pit?
Or a tunnel?
Or a barge, to be towed out into the Pacific and …
Apr 30, 2007 - 8:32 pm Sacramento Solon:I’ll call it a very solid evening for “24″…very solid.
Apr 30, 2007 - 10:02 pm Wilbur:Encircle LA Coliseum with razor wire and toss them all in for a “collective” Thunderdome cage match, on pay-per-view, proceeds to fund universal health care.
Apr 30, 2007 - 10:29 pm Jonas Blane:Great!
May 1, 2007 - 5:47 am Bill Bradley:Yes, Phil Angelides was there. I’ll get to that item.
>Ann :
May 1, 2007 - 6:59 am Bill Bradley:I know, he’s endorsing Angerlides again! Hey, was he at the convention?
Apr 30, 2007 04:35 PM
24 was good last night.
>Sacramento Solon :
May 1, 2007 - 7:00 am Wilbur:I’ll call it a very solid evening for “24″…very solid.
Apr 30, 2007 10:02 PM
By rebranding the Coalition of the Willing, McCain casts himself as yet another interventionist adventurer, proposing to create a new League Of Yes-Men to endorse his defiance of international law whenever he chooses to “intervene against dictatorships when Russia and China hold the UN Security Council back.”
Yes, I’m sure UN reticence is the cause of all that went wrong with the Iraq invasion and occupation. So we’ll reaffirm our manhood by beating up some other tyrant, and will defy the commies and UN wussies who tell us not to. The Bush Administration’s problem, you see, is that they weren’t sufficiently arrogant toward international opinion, and didn’t work hard enough to increase frictions with Russia and China.
I can’t imagine that plank being helpful in the general. It almost boasts of the urge to persist in preemptive military adventures overseas and rekindle Cold War II. Not sure that polls well in the middle.
And are there no isolationist Reeps left? Is “World Cop” now a central plank for them?
May 1, 2007 - 7:30 am Bill Bradley:Isolationism is no longer an option.
May 1, 2007 - 7:35 am Barbara:24 was wonderful last night…this episode saved the day!
May 1, 2007 - 9:38 am Barbara:McCain:
“Republican presidential candidate John McCain envisions a “League of Democracies” as part of a more cooperative foreign policy with U.S. allies. The Arizona senator will call for such an organization to be “the core of an international order of peace based on freedom” …
“We Americans must be willing to listen to the views and respect the collective will of our democratic allies,” McCain says, according to excerpts his campaign provided. “Our great power does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want, nor should we assume we have all the wisdom, knowledge and resources necessary to succeed”
Gee! it sounds Very nice doesn’t it?
You know 2 years ago a London think tank released an audit of 150 democratic countries ranking then most democratic to least…Finland was found to be the most democratic country in the world and Myanmar and Turkmenistan were at the end of the list. China was 128th. The survey looked at countries with a population of at least one million, and ranked them factoring in: public sector corruption, respect for human and political rights, freedom of speech, elections /open and free w/ voting rights
The findings were pretty predictable all member states of the European Union and NATO are in the top 40 positions, with the exception of Turkey, which stands at 62 and Russia was at 115….however, “Australia is the most democratic state in Oceania and 8th in the world. Canada is 10th, outranking the United States, which is 14th.” Brazil is 42nd and Argentina 62nd… Japan led Asia then South Korea (32nd), Taiwan (37th) and Israel (38th). Thailand (50) and the Philippines (52)Interesting, India is in 58th position as civil and political rights are “relatively well protected”…” but freedom of the press stands at 50 and corruption at 76 on a 1-to-100 scale” Wealthy Singapore came in at 79th because of media controls and limited freedom. At the bottom ….Russia (115) Saudi Arabia (117) Iraq (121st) Syria (124th). China (132)
McCain should rethink his paradigm for “Peace”…it sets up building an organization that would result in conflict by its very structure: West V. East…Developed World V Developing World … and most importantly …he needs to look again at who has the world’s vital energy and mineral resources in the world and where those countries are on this list …This is such a mistake to divide the world in this way in the 21 st century …peace? Bill Kristol and other neo-cons loved to insert “democracy” into all his little think tank creations, schemes, organizations …after the Neo Con disaster of Iraq …I guess he is inserting the word “Peace” now …we will be hearing alot about “peace” amd “good Allies” from McCain I assume now…he will probably be the REEP nominee…but as President he will install the neocons in defense and FP…he and they will talk peace…but never kid yourself…at the heart of their ideolgy is “conflict”…they can’t help them themselves…you see from their point …we need them to think for us, save us, save the world for ….peace…
Go Obama! we need IMPARTIAL BROKERS in the world not more neo-con gobbly goop thinking that leads only to more conflict.
May 1, 2007 - 10:45 am SD Local:Just a clarification. On Saturday, Antonio also attended a reception hosted by labor and environmentalists in San Diego, where he received a League of Conservation Voters San Diego, California Environmental Champion Award.
May 1, 2007 - 3:23 pm Bill Bradley:Thanks.
Not at the Democratic convention, though, so it is not a clarification, it’s an addendum.
May 1, 2007 - 3:27 pm AARP:AARP
A study recently released by AARP finds that nearly one in ten reverse- loan borrowers had other financial products recommended to them by lenders— usually investments, annuities or long- term- care insurance.
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:01 am