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	<title>Comments on: A Giant Leap for Commercial Spaceflight</title>
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		<title>By: R Miller</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-346504</link>
		<dc:creator>R Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Paul in Mi (10) um, based on the commonest stony meteorite samples and density, one 5-km diameter asteroid contains 81% &quot;worthless&quot; silicate rock, 2.57 e+16 grams of iron, worth $8.6 trillion @ pig iron price of $0.335/kg; 2.96 e+15 grams of nickel worth $87.2 trillion @ Ni price of $29.515/kg; 1.76 e+14 grams of cobalt worth $11.3 trillion @ 64.00/kg...

...and 4,609 metric tons of gold ($130 billion) as an impurity.

don&#039;t worry too much about depressing the market, that&#039;s what futures contracts are for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul in Mi (10) um, based on the commonest stony meteorite samples and density, one 5-km diameter asteroid contains 81% &#8220;worthless&#8221; silicate rock, 2.57 e+16 grams of iron, worth $8.6 trillion @ pig iron price of $0.335/kg; 2.96 e+15 grams of nickel worth $87.2 trillion @ Ni price of $29.515/kg; 1.76 e+14 grams of cobalt worth $11.3 trillion @ 64.00/kg&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;and 4,609 metric tons of gold ($130 billion) as an impurity.</p>
<p>don&#8217;t worry too much about depressing the market, that&#8217;s what futures contracts are for.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-344865</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-344865</guid>
		<description>So where were all these so-called conservatives as the republican senator from Alabama has repeatedly defended his government pork?  Why do we only hear about his porkiness now, when republicans are out of power, instead of a constant drumbeat to get people like him out of office when you could actually do something about it?

...and republicans wonder why they lose elections.  The people are sick of this two-faced double-standard on government spending that is now blatantly out of control.

&quot;But they&#039;re worse!&quot; when talking about democrats is no damned excuse, and y&#039;all know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So where were all these so-called conservatives as the republican senator from Alabama has repeatedly defended his government pork?  Why do we only hear about his porkiness now, when republicans are out of power, instead of a constant drumbeat to get people like him out of office when you could actually do something about it?</p>
<p>&#8230;and republicans wonder why they lose elections.  The people are sick of this two-faced double-standard on government spending that is now blatantly out of control.</p>
<p>&#8220;But they&#8217;re worse!&#8221; when talking about democrats is no damned excuse, and y&#8217;all know it.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Report</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-344239</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Report</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-344239</guid>
		<description>If NASA had an Evil Twin in the computing field,
we would still be using derivatives of SAGE, and
both Gates and Moore would be wage slaves.

Technology has overtaken NASA. More importantly,
the wealth available from space exploitation
is a now a national survival issue; Solar power
beamed down from orbit could be used to pay off
a lot of the debt we owe to China, et. al.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If NASA had an Evil Twin in the computing field,<br />
we would still be using derivatives of SAGE, and<br />
both Gates and Moore would be wage slaves.</p>
<p>Technology has overtaken NASA. More importantly,<br />
the wealth available from space exploitation<br />
is a now a national survival issue; Solar power<br />
beamed down from orbit could be used to pay off<br />
a lot of the debt we owe to China, et. al.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul of Alexandria</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-344111</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul of Alexandria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-344111</guid>
		<description>Paul in MI (10):
 &lt;blockquote&gt;
Paul of Alexandria (7)
Maybe we should have had commercial space stations and moon bases by now. But where’s the profit incentive?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Please be careful here - that&#039;s not the issue. If there is profit possible, then commercial entitities can find it. We&#039;re starting with tourism, minerals and beamed power may follow. 

The main issue is whether the government is obstructing the commercial utilization of space resources or helping it. Right now, the NASA space program is almost purely political. All of the commercial work is going on either at NOAA or DoD. 

A secondary point is that space stations and moonbases are &lt;b&gt;places&lt;/b&gt; not projects in and of themselves. McMurdo Base in Antarctica doesn&#039;t exist simply to exist, it is there to support scientific exploration. 

The government and NASA &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; be making every effort to develop cheap, reusable launch capabilities, and to open the ISS to commercial operation so that the &lt;i&gt;private entities&lt;/i&gt; can find the economic justification for further use.  

A very good analogy is the building of the first trans-continential railroad in the U.S. It was partly, if not mostly, subsidized by the government through land grants, because no individual company could otherwise have accomplished the task. It has since, however, paid for itself many times over on the taxes on freight and passengers hauled (AMTRACK aside).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul in MI (10):</p>
<blockquote><p>
Paul of Alexandria (7)<br />
Maybe we should have had commercial space stations and moon bases by now. But where’s the profit incentive?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Please be careful here &#8211; that&#8217;s not the issue. If there is profit possible, then commercial entitities can find it. We&#8217;re starting with tourism, minerals and beamed power may follow. </p>
<p>The main issue is whether the government is obstructing the commercial utilization of space resources or helping it. Right now, the NASA space program is almost purely political. All of the commercial work is going on either at NOAA or DoD. </p>
<p>A secondary point is that space stations and moonbases are <b>places</b> not projects in and of themselves. McMurdo Base in Antarctica doesn&#8217;t exist simply to exist, it is there to support scientific exploration. </p>
<p>The government and NASA <i>should</i> be making every effort to develop cheap, reusable launch capabilities, and to open the ISS to commercial operation so that the <i>private entities</i> can find the economic justification for further use.  </p>
<p>A very good analogy is the building of the first trans-continential railroad in the U.S. It was partly, if not mostly, subsidized by the government through land grants, because no individual company could otherwise have accomplished the task. It has since, however, paid for itself many times over on the taxes on freight and passengers hauled (AMTRACK aside).</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-343619</link>
		<dc:creator>Rand Simberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-343619</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The economies of scale of super-heavy-lift boosters is vital to lunar base construction and interplanetary exploration.&lt;/em&gt;

No, it is not.  This fetish for heavy lifters is what is preventing us from opening the solar system.  What we need is affordable launch, and you don&#039;t get there by spending tens of billions of dollars on something that only flies a few times a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The economies of scale of super-heavy-lift boosters is vital to lunar base construction and interplanetary exploration.</em></p>
<p>No, it is not.  This fetish for heavy lifters is what is preventing us from opening the solar system.  What we need is affordable launch, and you don&#8217;t get there by spending tens of billions of dollars on something that only flies a few times a year.</p>
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		<title>By: IcePilot</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-343597</link>
		<dc:creator>IcePilot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-343597</guid>
		<description>Also,

Gravity wells are why Mars is a dead end.  Space will happen when industrialists figure out how to make a buck up there.  Ask yourself this question - what will ever be produced on Mars and sold for a profit on Earth?

The path ahead is to the Moon for H3 and to Earth-crossing asteroids (minimal delta-v) for every element in the periodic table.

Elon Musk will show that access to space can be done for millions, privately, rather than billions via NASA.  

And that will change everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also,</p>
<p>Gravity wells are why Mars is a dead end.  Space will happen when industrialists figure out how to make a buck up there.  Ask yourself this question &#8211; what will ever be produced on Mars and sold for a profit on Earth?</p>
<p>The path ahead is to the Moon for H3 and to Earth-crossing asteroids (minimal delta-v) for every element in the periodic table.</p>
<p>Elon Musk will show that access to space can be done for millions, privately, rather than billions via NASA.  </p>
<p>And that will change everything.</p>
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		<title>By: IcePilot</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-343584</link>
		<dc:creator>IcePilot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-343584</guid>
		<description>Please,

The proper measure for the cost of movement in space is change in velocity, with deep gravity wells like Earth (or Mars) being the difficult and costly parts, hence the phrase &quot;halfway to anywhere&quot;, referring to Low Earth Orbit (LEO).  With SpaceX demonstrating the ability to escape Earth and (hopefully) Bigalow providing cheap, lightweight and voluminous structure, private industry has access to space.  And space equals unlimited energy, unlimited resources and no gravity.

LET THE GOLDRUSH* BEGIN!!

* and H3, palladium, platinum, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please,</p>
<p>The proper measure for the cost of movement in space is change in velocity, with deep gravity wells like Earth (or Mars) being the difficult and costly parts, hence the phrase &#8220;halfway to anywhere&#8221;, referring to Low Earth Orbit (LEO).  With SpaceX demonstrating the ability to escape Earth and (hopefully) Bigalow providing cheap, lightweight and voluminous structure, private industry has access to space.  And space equals unlimited energy, unlimited resources and no gravity.</p>
<p>LET THE GOLDRUSH* BEGIN!!</p>
<p>* and H3, palladium, platinum, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-343518</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-343518</guid>
		<description>There is a big difference between Dragon and Orion, just as there was a big difference between Apollo and Soyuz.  Apollo had over ten times the delta-V and the ability to return to Earth at over 24,000 MPH.  Soyuz is purely an orbital vehicle that can enter the atmosphere at 17,500 MPH.  That said, a plan to send a Soyuz to the moon simply means adding a second propulsive stage and a second heat shield.  Dragon launches on a Falcon 9.  Space-X is also developing a Falcon 9 Heavy, which is far larger.  A Falcon 9 Heavy launching a &quot;Dragon 2&quot; could easily match Ares I/Orion, although the capsule itself would probably be redesigned from scratch.  All that said, I still support Ares V.  The economies of scale of super-heavy-lift boosters is vital to lunar base construction and interplanetary exploration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a big difference between Dragon and Orion, just as there was a big difference between Apollo and Soyuz.  Apollo had over ten times the delta-V and the ability to return to Earth at over 24,000 MPH.  Soyuz is purely an orbital vehicle that can enter the atmosphere at 17,500 MPH.  That said, a plan to send a Soyuz to the moon simply means adding a second propulsive stage and a second heat shield.  Dragon launches on a Falcon 9.  Space-X is also developing a Falcon 9 Heavy, which is far larger.  A Falcon 9 Heavy launching a &#8220;Dragon 2&#8243; could easily match Ares I/Orion, although the capsule itself would probably be redesigned from scratch.  All that said, I still support Ares V.  The economies of scale of super-heavy-lift boosters is vital to lunar base construction and interplanetary exploration.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-343514</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-343514</guid>
		<description>10 (Paul in MI): &quot;Asteroid mining is interesting in theory but the costs of nickel and iron on earth would have to skyrocket before it was worth it to make a 12 month trip to the asteroid belt and back. Launch costs will make most business models impossible until we find a cheaper way to get out of the gravity well.&quot;

That argument only holds if you&#039;re spending the energy to go to the asteroids and back, to use the material here on Earth.  If I want 10,000 pounds of nickel-iron in LEO though (to make into whatever - but some whatever that&#039;s meant to stay in orbit), it&#039;s a lot easier to get it from the belt than it is to loft it from the surface of the Earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10 (Paul in MI): &#8220;Asteroid mining is interesting in theory but the costs of nickel and iron on earth would have to skyrocket before it was worth it to make a 12 month trip to the asteroid belt and back. Launch costs will make most business models impossible until we find a cheaper way to get out of the gravity well.&#8221;</p>
<p>That argument only holds if you&#8217;re spending the energy to go to the asteroids and back, to use the material here on Earth.  If I want 10,000 pounds of nickel-iron in LEO though (to make into whatever &#8211; but some whatever that&#8217;s meant to stay in orbit), it&#8217;s a lot easier to get it from the belt than it is to loft it from the surface of the Earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Wright</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-giant-leap-for-commercial-spaceflight/comment-page-1/#comment-343454</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=61611#comment-343454</guid>
		<description>Distance to the moon: 384,403 km
Distance to low orbit: 2000 km
Does that look like 2 orders of magnitude? Cause it looks like 2 orders of magnitude to me.

Try scaling the problem as one of the energy required to reach the target, not one of the distance.  It will be a better yardstick, and SpaceX&#039;s accomplishments will fare very well against anything NASA has been contemplating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Distance to the moon: 384,403 km<br />
Distance to low orbit: 2000 km<br />
Does that look like 2 orders of magnitude? Cause it looks like 2 orders of magnitude to me.</p>
<p>Try scaling the problem as one of the energy required to reach the target, not one of the distance.  It will be a better yardstick, and SpaceX&#8217;s accomplishments will fare very well against anything NASA has been contemplating.</p>
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