246 Comments

1. Clayton E. Cramer:

It turns out that there are yet two more ways to get a birth certificate from Hawaii, according to the Hawaiian Department of Health website:

has undergone a sex change operation

A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii.

Jul 24, 2009 - 9:21 am 2. bob:

Dang it, the birth certificate issue may or may not be important, depending, but being a Natural Born Citizen is.

One citizen parent + one citizen parent giving birth to a child born in the USA = a Natural Born Citizen child. Which you must be to be President. The only office with that standard. The founders didn’t want, quite rightly, someone with divided loyalties running the Army.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:10 am 3. Oh Dear:

Mr. Owens. You should have just stopped at “far fetched.”

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:48 am 4. Realist:

There is a perfectly simple way for the Obamanation to settle this and that is to produce or allow the production of his ‘Long Form’ Hawaii Birth certificate at a cost od $15. Instead he has fought and is continuing to fight AGAINST releasing it and to use Lawyers at a cost so far estimated to exceed $ 1,000,000. So the REAL questions that should be asked of Obambi AND his worshiping naive , gullible followers is WHY??????????????

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:07 am 5. WhyamInotsurprised?:

I’ve seen all the debate pro and con about birth certificates.

What I want to know is “Who is responsible for security clearance checks of presidential candidates, and/or elected presidents prior to taking office and to whom are the results of the investigation reported? I presume verification of “natural born citizen” is one of the items to be investigated.

Seems to me that the President should hold a pretty significant security clearance (Top Secret, Very Top Secret, Ultra Top Secret, Ultra-Ultra Top Secret, Eyes Only Top Secret, I Spy Top Secret, UC WEKILL Top Secret, etc.) and that the results of this background check should be available via the Freedom of Information Act.

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:53 am 6. A. Nonymous:

It’s time to give up on this one: Notice of Obama’s birth was published in the Honolulu Advertiser a few days after he was born, and unless his parents knew even then that their Annointed One was destined to be president, they would have had no reason to lie about it.

What we should be focusing on, however is why he feels that laws are meant for other people, and he doesn’t have to follow them. We have had other presidents like that (Nixon and Clinton come to mind) and it took years to get over the ill effects they had on our government. Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:04 am 7. howiem:

The real issue is the Constitutional requirement at the president be a natural born citizen. Obama has not proven that he is. There is no proof (only some questionable evidence) that he is. There is no proof that the DNC vetted him. The Certificate of Live Birth that Obama posted on his web site before the election showed his father’s race as African. Africa is a continent, not a race. Innocent clerical error or major misstep? There is no such thing thing as an African race, unless you count the long distance events at an international track meet.
This fiasco would be put to rest in a few seconds if Obama produced proof that he is a natural born citizen. That proof is the original complete birth certificate. He has refused to release that as well as his medical records, school records, etc. Is it really unreasonable to assume he is hiding something of significance? Without a birth certificate one is prohibited from serving in the Armed Forces, but he is CinC by default. The fact that he refuses to produce anything that can validate his eligibility to serve as president is the weirdness, not the desire of American citizens for proof. So instead of demeaning people who want to see the proof, we should be calling on Obama to produce it – to settle the matter once and for all. What’s so hard about that?

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:10 am 8. Phil Byler:

Last April, at a Republican National Lawyers Association conference in Washington D.C., one of the head Lawyers for McCain lawyers stated that the McCain campaign did look into the matter of Obama’s eligibility but was satisfied with the produced documentation, which is the Certificate of Live Birth.

Of course, that thin documentation has not satisfied a number of people, including myself, and I was a memebr of Lawyers for McCain. I come from the perspective of a Harvard Law graduate and practising litigation lawyer for over 30+ years who sees what little Obama has produced as inconclusive — Obama has not produced critical records — and who sees what fight Obama has been putting into not producing more as consistent with there being a real problem, which there may be. Among other things, Obama has not produced the original birth certificate and hospital records, his father was a British citizen, Obama attended school in Indonesia where it would not have been open to an American citizen, there is a tape of Kenyan grandmother who says Obama is a child of the village, and he travelled to Pakistan at a time when U.S. citizens were forbidden to do so.

John McCain should have taken the following approach: address Obama and say do as I have done. When the eligibility issue was raised as to McCain, McCain released all relevant documentation, including an original birth certificate and hospital records. McCain hired two prominent attorneys in Ted Olsen and David Boies to review the facts and the documentation and issue an opinion. Olsen and Boies rendered an opinion that McCain was and is eligible under the U.S. Constitution to serve as President. The U.S. Senate then passed a Senate Resolution that McCain is qualified under the U.S. Constitution to serve as President.

McCain handled the eligibility issue as to himself the way he did out of reverence for the U.S. Constitution and love of the country to which he put his life on the line as a combat U.S. Naval aviator. Obama should have been held to the same process. There was no good reason why not, and there is still no good reason why not.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:15 am 9. faked birth:

I have been doing genealogy for 30 years.

If you find problems with the persons birth certificate-

mine says- born June 31, 19-

there is no June 31,
So you look for a paper trail.

Obama has two 2 birth announcements.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php

These birthrighters are trying to tell me that 2 or more Hawaiian newspaper editors sat around a hot August editors desk with those wide brim hats on, wiped their hot foreheads in 1961 and said:

“Hey this BHO kid wasn’t born in a local hospital here in Hawaii he was born in Africa!”

“Let’s make up fake birth announcements in two different newspapers because in 2008 he will become POTUSA.”

Please….

Show me some July 18th 1969 faked moon landing pictures with baby Barry riding on the moon buggy- more believable.

This is all bullishness-

And the one million dollars he supposedly spent to keep his birth secret,
is the best money ever spent on an election.

It caused 3 million independent genealogists to vote for him.

That is 33 cents per vote.

And you wonder why McCain lost?

…..Why would they need Acorn?

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:20 am 10. Meryl:

6. “It’s time to give up on this one: Notice of Obama’s birth was published in the Honolulu Advertiser a few days after he was born, and unless his parents knew even then that their Annointed One was destined to be president, they would have had no reason to lie about it.”

People have been lying about U.S. residency status, on their own behalf and their children’s, for at least 2 centuries in order to qualify for the general benefits of being a United States citizen. And their lies had nothing to do with assumptions about future political office.

Debate strategy: project an extreme argument on to the opponent’s position with the hope of forcing your opponent to defend a position they have never claimed.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:26 am 11. Terry:

I agree with howiem. Because of the circumstances surrounding the release of Owebamas actual long form birth certificate the questions do not recede. If I remember correctly, John McCain, third generation naval officer, was required to send representatives to court to establish his ‘natural born’ bona fides due to his actual live birth in the Paname canal zone while his father was serving in the U.S. Navy. In the presidential contest McCain chose not to pursue this issue and there may be actual evidence of Owebamas birth that proves his case. None of these circumstances, though, explains the reason for Owebama to resist displaying such evidence to the American people. The case can be referred to as a right wing nut smear, but unless and until an actual birth certificate is produced, this can only be assumed to be dissimulation.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:32 am 12. bob:

Notice of Obama’s birth was published in the Honolulu Advertiser a few days after he was born

That’s not the issue. The mother may have given birth elsewhere, registered him in Hawaii as was allowed at the time, on just her say so, and put the ad in the paper, without any thought other than she wanted him a US fellow, not a Kenyan, for the benefits derived from that.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:36 am 13. yo:

To #6 above.

The birth announcements in newspapers were sent directly from the states Vital Statistics Dept. Obama’s parents had nothing to do with it.

Your line of reasoning is not valid.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:45 am 14. Войска ПВО:

I’m with howie,, above, but there is a more important principle at stake here. If Obama is allowed to serve his one term out and it is discovered that he was not, in fact, a citizen or otherwise ineligible to have served as Commander-inChief, then this will set a dangerous precedent if we ever get a president who is a radical leftist, incompetent, self-absorbed narcissist with no business acumen who attempts to run this country into the ground, then we are powerless to remove him..

..oh, wait.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:04 am 15. faked birth:

12. yo:
To #6 above.
The birth announcements in newspapers were sent directly from the states Vital Statistics Dept. Obama’s parents had nothing to do with it.

Agree.

My hospital records show date of birth June 31 and it transferred to my birth certificate.

Nurses and doctors make paper mistakes also.

Lets forget about his birth and work to put him out of office.

The democrats are loving all this stupid attention and time spent for a non detail.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:07 am 16. Jack Okie:

Mr Owens:

To couch to controversy as “a cadre of hardcore believers that are convinced that the president is not eligible to hold the office he occupies, and an executive that doesn’t seem to mind fighting these accusations in court” is grossly unfair and misleading. I’m not convinced either way, and I think most of the “Birthers” are in this camp. We’re saying there’s no hard evidence that Obama is eligible, and we’d like to see some. To lump us in with those on the fringe who also make claims without hard evidence is a smear. I want ALL of the Constitution to be followed. Can you explain what is wrong with that?

A Nonymous:

The newspaper announcement makes no reference to place of birth or hospital. The newspaper prints whatever is phoned in if the announcement didn’t come from the hospital. Proud grandparents post birth announcements regardless of where their grandchild was born.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:10 am 17. vivo:

8. faked birth:

You should send your writings to the Fox people.

*

It’s all very simple anyway:

If President Obama is not a N.B.C., Joe Biden is next in line; then, Nancy Pelosi. Problem solved.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:11 am 18. Attila:

To #13 above.

Birth announcements in newspapers are sent from the Vital Statistics, but they could also come from other sources.

Most people would not spend huge sums of money to restrict release of a full birth certificate. This is the strongest evidence for some sort of problem with Obama’s birth records.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:14 am 19. Sam:

Here is my guess at all this. Bamalama was born in Hawaii but exploited his race and his fathers background to get $ and special treatment all through his educational career. This is why none of his college records are available either. Obama is our first affirmative action president. He probably lied on his college applications for admission and scholarships and financial aid. His work, papers etc. are probably poor but received good grades. He is obviously American (unless you suspect Manchurian candidate type deep cover long term planting, silly.)

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:16 am 20. TurfMonster:

I understand (but haven’t followed closely) that Obama allegedly traveled to Pakistan in the early 80s and that the country of his passport is disputed. Did he use a US passport or an Indonesian passport?

It would be nice if the lamestream media were to be interested in this but they’d too busy carrying Obama’s water.

And the question of why he’s put us through this is spot on. It seems to me that Obama either has something to hide or is cynically trying to use these circumstances to portray his opponents as nutjobs who fall for conspiracy theories. Either way, he comes across as Nixonian to me.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:16 am 21. BC:

“Reinvigorated the discussion”? Mr. Moon-Landing Hoaxer and Ms. 911 Inside Jobber, meet the new neighbors.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:20 am 22. loco36:

If the matter of his birth is so straight forward how come Obama has been paying numerous lawyers to defeat the many lawsuits???? Why doesn’t he allow one lawsuit to go forward and end it all once and for all. Why doesn’t he open up all his records of school, birth , passport etc. Every record has been closed off to the public. Why? Why? Why? If it is not his birth place, what else is Obama hiding? Why did democrats defeat a bill in congress ordering all presidential candidates to show a valid birth certificate. Do they know something we don’t know.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:30 am 23. Vaughn:

This has become much more than just a document issue. Now, it becomes BHO’s arrogance and disgust for the American public.

It becomes more obvious each day, he has no regard for 200+ years of greatness. Just another African despot.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:35 am 24. John Samford:

I didn’t see Mr. Owens touch the issue that started this controversy; The FACT that Berry’s birth certificate that was released when this story first showed up was photoshopped.
At the time (spring of ‘08) dozens of Forensic Document Examiners declared the birth certificate in question to be a forgery. When challenged in court, Berry spent 600,000 of his own money to avoid giving the public access to his alleged birth certificate.
Since the Usurper could have stopped this whole thangie at any time by releasing his Birth certificate, anyone with an IQ above room temperature wonders why he didn’t. What is on that birth certificate that is worth 600,000 US$ to prevent it going public?
Nice Red Herring Mr. Owens, but it won’t work. The hounds are on the scent and won’t be turned aside by cheap tricks.

If Mr. Owens wanted to contribute, he could look up the people in the Democratic party that vetted Berry and see what their rewards were.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:59 am 25. LeighB:

There are certainly open questions about the birth certificate secrecy, 1) Why was he not required to produce it, 2) why is he unwilling to produce it now, 3) if it’s true that he has spent $1M+ keeping it a secret, who is paying the legal fees (his personal funds, campaign funds, or the lawyers aren’t being paid)?

What is he trying to hide? Was he born with a medical condition? Is the father’s name not listed? Does the long form include a religious preference?

Bottom-line, our President thinks rules are for other people. This should be a non-issue and his actions have made it one.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:00 am 26. polkabout:

#9 & #13

Regarding newspapers birth announcements

The Mr. & Mrs part is a joke. The Mr. wasn’t & never was a citizen of the US. That fact allows him to be born a citizen of another country. The birthing on US soil does not automatically make one a US citizen.
I’m still waiting for the proof of Obama’s eligibility.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:05 am 27. John Samford:

“Notice of Obama’s birth was published in the Honolulu Advertiser a few days after he was born, ”

Evidence please. Where is the microfysch or digital copy of this newspaper notice?
Scoffers can scoff all they want. After the Usurpers impeachment this will become an important issue, since ALL legislation signed by the chosen One will be null and void unless he produces a birth certificate.
That alone should be enough reason to produce one, yet Berry still refuses. WHY?
The meat of the nut here is that Berry is hiding something. What?

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:11 am 28. Vt:

We should stop clouding the issue with facts, and move on. the Pres has!

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:42 am 29. MayaSchwener:

I agree with you, Vt – we should really let it go and finally move on. Enough have been said about this Obama incident.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:51 am 30. Stop the bull shit:

*************************************************

“If you were born in Bali, for example, you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate.”-Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawaii Department of Health

Opponents asserted that Hawaiian officials had not explicitly addressed the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii, and pointed to a provision of Hawaiian law that permits the issuance of certifications of live birth to those born outside the state or even outside the country. However, the suggestion that this could have applied to Obama was rejected by Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawaii Department of Health: “If you were born in Bali, for example, you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate.”[26]

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:55 am 31. Stop the bull shit:

From Hawaii’s dept of health

Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth.

When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. [/B][/QUOTE]

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:58 am 32. daveinga:

instead of quelling all this hoopla, and getting everything crystal clear, as he PROMISED when running for potus, he chooses to pay lawyers staggering amounts of (surely taxpayer) money to muddy the waters further.

the Military is fighting a war. people are killing and being killed on his orders. elected officials questioned an American Hero in court to insure his elibility, and let this so far unqualified snake in the back door. using the power of a political office to avoid compliance to the Constitution has a name. our forefathers knew it well. to attack a war hero to achieve these ends smells like what i see when watching this den of thieves.

sorry teacher, dog ate my birth certificate.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:59 am 33. Realist:

So now according to ObamaIDIOTS you dont need a Birth Certificate any more a NEWSPAPER announcement is all that is needed for undeniable LEGITIMACY what a load of morons you are.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:00 am 34. Jonathan:

#15
Being born on US soil does, in fact, make one a US citizen. See 14th Amendment Section 1:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. …

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:11 am 35. Deep Brain Diarist:

You birthers should just go ahead and keep on whining. The louder you get, the more regular people will begin to lump ALL conservatives into your little group of Flat Earther, Moon-Landing-Denying, “We Can’t Call Him the N-word so We’ll Call Him a FUR’NER” group of morons.

In years to come when folks discuss the death of the Republican party, it will be YOU guys they talk about.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:12 am 36. clear mind:

#13 YO! “The birth announcements in newspapers were sent directly from the states Vital Statistics Dept. Obama’s parents had nothing to do with it.”

I guess you’ve fallen into the trap of presumption. According to numerous accounts, the newspapers published birth announcements that were submitted by anyone. Then, there’s the issue of their local address. Residents on the street don’t remember Obama’s parents ever living there.

Then you have the issue of the trip to Pakistan in 1981. Those holding US passports weren’t allowed. He can simply answer the question and the US Passport agency should have to respond to a FOIA request. We’ve seen BHO have trouble answering hard questions and we know he easily answer questions after admitting that he doesn’t have facts, but he responds, anyway. He is a master of deception.

Then you have the issue of being adopted by his step-father in Indonesia during the 1967 to 1971 period when he lived there.

Let’s see… BHO can lie to the Apollo 11 astronauts about watching the events of the Apollo 11 splash-down from the Hawaiian beaches in 1969… we all know BHO has great powers, but he was living in Indonesia in 1969, so he must have transformed Hawaii to Indonesia with his impressive powers.

We are being treated to BHO’s power of imaginary information. Clever dude this BHO, but the gullibility of the public is most disappointing.

BHO has spent almost $1 million to protect his identity. It would have cost less than $15 to get a real copy of his birth certificate. I’m guessing he’s spent $999,985 to hide something he doesn’t want exposed.

So, prove me wrong, YO!

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:15 am 37. LeighB:

Deep Brain Diarist and other Obamaphiles, The term we “birthers” prefer is patriotic. We thought it was a fair question to ask of McCain as well. The difference is, John supplied the information and the questions were answered.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:19 am 38. ~Paules:

If our president had been born in Kenya, the story would be worth a million bucks to someone in Kenya who could produce credible evidence. It’s possible the documentary evidence was covered up or destroyed, but what about the people who attended this alleged birth? You don’t think they would sell their story given half a chance?

Keep in mind also that Kenya was a British colony at the time. If the Brits had anything at all, don’t you think someone would have come forward by now? The entire gamut is conspiracy theory nonsense.

It serves the conservative agenda not one wit when we can beat the man on the issues. Obama is all facade and no substance. The American people are starting to wake up. Have a look at the Rasmussen numbers on the side bar —->

Obama can be neutralized before he does the country any more damage. It’s time for brass-knuckle politics; the guy has a glass jaw. What we need is a heavyweight who can deliver the knockout blow.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:23 am 39. moron:

Sam #19, I agree with you but he still might not have been a legal candidate for POTUS if he had dual citizenship. Or if he is a felon to be for his illegal loans, scholarships, lies or whatever else he is covering. There is a reason or likely many reasons Bambi is being opaque [not transparent as pledged].

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:40 am 40. Diablo:

First, this is entire issue is a boon to the President. Instead of people responding to his policies and actions, we are wasting the time on this non-issue. Why won’t he give out his birth certificate? Well someone had already mention this, but one can look at the moon landing. A few years back, NASA gave money to an author to write a book detailing that we did land on the moon to counter the rumors that we faked the landing. The reason that NASA ended up not publishing it is because 1) for some, no amount of evidence will ever prove something to them, and 2) by merely acknowledging these people’s view, it gave their paranoia validity.

Obama could release the birth certificate tomorrow and this “controversy” wouldn’t go away. As soon as it is released, people will find whatever reasons to deny it. Second, whoever was present at the birth, his or her’s life will essentially be over. Some poor doctor (or their descendants if the MD was dead) would end up getting stalked non-stop by every paranoid conspiracy that could afford a plane ticket. I am truly confused, how many of us would be comfortable with printing of our birth certificate in national news papers. Especially since he has given the documents to the people he was required to do so. He shouldn’t have to give a copy to every person in this country. That’s utterly insane and the day I have to give out that kind of information to random people is the day I leave this country.

Again, all this serves to do is kept us busy with a non-issue while the democrats can push through pretty much anything they want.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:00 am 41. Arroyo:

I fully expect Obama to ask for one-hour of network time to tell the American people that he remembers full well the room in Hawaii in which he was born. He probably remembers who was there, the colors of the walls, etc.

If he does a good job of looking into the cameras, sounds convincing, makes just the right gestures, and complains about that uncomfortable pea under his mattress, most of the electorate will believe him.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:08 am 42. Wolla Dalbo:

It looks like the Constitution, while requiring that candidates for the President must be “natural born citizens,” does not specify exactly which organ of government or government official is to be the one to ask for and evaluate such a birth certificate. One would think that there were all sorts of local, state and federal government, Democratic party and Congressional officials who had a responsibility, as Obama climbed up through the ranks in his political career, to verify that he was a citizen and especially, before he ran for the Presidency, that he was a “natural born citizen” as the Constitution requires. But, Obama rose through the ranks of the extraordinarily corrupt Chicago political machine; anyone think that they cared whether their rising star—backed by the money, connections and power of Tom Ayers (yes, Bill Ayers father) the “Godfather of Chicago politics”–was a citizen? Anyone think that Democratic party officials or those in the Illinois State Legislature would ask to see State Senator Obama’s original birth certificate?

When it comes to Obama’s run for the Presidency, it looks like the Democratic National Committee, the Speaker of the House, and also the Federal Elections Commission each have some responsibility to check the credentials of potential candidates for the Presidency. Can you see Pelosi telling Obama, “sorry, you aren’t qualified to run”? As for the DNC and the FEC, they have both joined with Obama in the lawsuits fighting against Obama’s having to produce his original birth certificate. In addition, both the DNC and FEC have said in these suits that they have no responsibility to vet candidates for the Presidency. I guess that means that no one has that responsibility, then, since all of those U.S. citizens who have filed suit to get Obama to produce his birth certificate have been told by various courts that they do not have the “standing” to sue.

I note, too, that Obama, who did little as a U.S. Senator but be out on the road “campaigning,” who introduced only one routine bill that became law in his two years as a Senator, and who held no hearings at all of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee he chaired was, nonetheless, there in the Senate to be an active cosponsor, along with Senators Leahy and Clinton, Webb and Coburn, of Senator Claire McCaskill’s non-binding Sense of the Senate resolution 511 in the 110th Congress, that declared that Senator McCain was a “natural born citizen” and that explored this Constitutional requirement. Curious, is it not?

Believe it or not, on the security clearance issue, we have naively just assumed that our legislators and our President are acting in “good faith,” that they are automatically and without question loyal to America, to our democratic system, and are “on our side” and, thus, that they should not have to be subjected to any kind of security clearance investigation whatsoever:

Even though Members of Congress come into contact with classified information all the time, they have exempted themselves from having to go through any kind of security clearance procedure, and are automatically granted access. While staff members of the Intelligence Committees have to have security clearances, those members of Congress on the Intelligence Committees, where they have access to the highest levels of classified material, are asked, merely, to sign a pledge that they will not disclose classified information that they have been given access to.

Similarly, there is no security clearance process that a President has to go through. As soon as someone is a major candidate for the Presidency, they start to get classified briefings, and once someone becomes President, they immediately have full access to all of the classified material the government has.

The bottom line in the “natural born citizen” issue, understandable by everyone who has stood in a DMV line, original birth certificate in hand, to get a new drivers license, is that anyone should be able to easily, and without harm or great cost, produce his original birth certificate. Those in the DMV line are compelled by law to produce their original birth certificate just to get a drivers license, why shouldn’t a candidate for the supremely powerful office of President have to produce his?

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:12 am 43. "Do you have a birth certificate?" Go Fish !!:

“Various theories of where President Obama’s birth may have occurred have failed to produce any documentation that suggests he was born overseas.” BULL***T Obama and his minions have spent millions of $’s to hide and seal his records!!!!! His 1st day in office he signed an executive order amending the Freedom of Information Act to prevent anyone from accessing any records pertaining to him. BOB OWENS, YOU SIR, ARE A MORON! Pajamas Media must be going in the toilet if the have to stoop to allowing themselves to post your articles.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:14 am 44. Increase Mather:

This all could have been avoided if the MAINSTREAM MEDIA had done their job and properly vetted this guy during the campaign.

The other thing not talked about was John Edwards love child…

…this is what happens when the media chooses up sides.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:16 am 45. tommyd:

Sam probably is the closest to the crux of the situation.

#19 Sam:

Here is my guess at all this. Bamalama was born in Hawaii but exploited his race and his fathers background to get $ and special treatment all through his educational career. This is why none of his college records are available either. Obama is our first affirmative action president. He probably lied on his college applications for admission and scholarships and financial aid. His work, papers etc. are probably poor but received good grades. He is obviously American (unless you suspect Manchurian candidate type deep cover long term planting, silly.)
Jul 26, 2009 – 5:16 am

Let’s face it, It is a fact that Obama is a lier. He can’t come clean without revealing to the world his whole life has been built on lies.
Any thinking person can see right through the fake b.s.
If he was a repub. the press would be all over him like white on rice.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:17 am 46. "progressive"watch:

What is Barack Obama hiding if he has nothing to hide. And it’s not just his birth certificate. Howiem #7 is right.That Obama refuses to produce his birth cdertificate,his medical records, and any of his school records is the weirdness,”not the desire of American citizen for proof.”

It is not quite as if Obama cannot tell a lie. It may be that he cannot tell the truth. Maybe we have gone from a president who would not tell a lie to a president who cannot tell the truth. Or dares not tell the truth.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:19 am 47. Pablo:

In any other context, the kind of evasions in which BHO has indulged would be properly construed as, at a minimum, curious, and, not unreasonably, as raising the kinds of questions many commenters have posted. I appreciate Bob Owens’s skepticism regarding the skeptics, but I don’t think we are at a point where it is clear that BHO has done what he should have done proactively months ago, let alone what he has failed to do subsequently. He owes it to the American people to produce:

- travel visa to Pakistan
- explanation for why a hospital in Hawaii withdrew its claim that he was born there
- all school records

I don’t view this as a political matter, but a fundamental constitutional one that strikes at the heart of the matter as to who owes what to whom. In this case, an aspirant to the highest office of public trust in the land owes it to us to clarify. Unfortunately, it has become (surprise!) politicized, and those who ask legitimate questions labeled “birthers”. Bob Owens has a deep well of good will so far as I am concerned, but for reasons I can’t quite fathom, he seems to have reached a premature (though not necessarily incorrect) conclusion about this matter.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:19 am 48. Khiri:

Vt (#28) has it right, not just about this issue. At least 99% of what Obama says can be disproved with facts. And the Obamabots counteract with slander.

Way to argue, guys. Impressive. Enjoy that “hope and change” when you have nothing: no money, no healthcare, no freedom, NOTHING!

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:26 am 49. Strawman:

Frankly, I don’t care what was published when by whom. It’s very simple. McCain was questioned about his birth (in the Canal zone). It’s called due diligence. He promptly furnished a legal birth certificate. End of issue.

So what’s 0bama’s excuse? Is he special?

To all of his defenders, I have a challenge: apply for a passport. Refuse to furnish a legal certificate of birth. See what happens.

All I want is for him to have to leap the same hurdles that everyone else has to. This isn’t about any doubts about the circumstances of his birth. It’s about equality under the law.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:35 am 50. Marc Malone:

The problem is more extensive. If Obama were indeed born in Kenya, as alleged, he is not even a U.S. Citizen under the laws of the time. His mother was only 18. She needed to be 19, if he were born in Kenya, in order for him to be a U.S. Citizen. Otherwise, his father’s Kenyan citizenship prevails. This is why she would have desperately claimed he was born in Hawaii, else he would not be a Citizen, with all the headaches that would entail.

If he is not a U.S. Citizen, he was not even eligible to be Senator. Constitutionally, this is a mess. Are all his votes disqualified after the fact? Who becomes President… McCain? How about any laws signed by him as Prez? Are they, too, invalidated?

Better, what happens to the Dem Party, if they failed to vet him properly, or worse, if they knowingly put this Usurper into the office? The word treason comes to mind. They are never going to let this info out. Never.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:37 am 51. Stevemmn:

Owens said:

“Various theories of where President Obama’s birth may have occurred have failed to produce any documentation that suggests he was born overseas.”

That’s funny, I thought the whole idea of an eligibility requirement was for the candidate to prove that he or she is eligible to serve in the office they are seeking, not the other way around. To date Obama has failed to provide that proof.

His COLB is not proof, as was amply shown above. The birth notice is not proof, it only says he was born on a particular date but does not say where. Why does Obama choose to spend thousands of dollars fighting the release of his long form birth certificate?? What is he hiding??

He also refuses to release his full medical records and his college transcripts. This secrecy would be totally unacceptable to the MSM for a Republican candidate. The country knows every mole John McCain ever had on his body, Obama should be held to the same standards as other candidates.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:39 am 52. Strawman:

I didn’t see Mr. Owens touch the issue that started this controversy; The FACT that Berry’s birth certificate that was released when this story first showed up was photoshopped.

Experts disagree on that point. What’s not controversial is that it’s not legally valid. The serial number was redacted. Back to my point. Simply furnish a legally valid certificate. Done.

And if you’re going to furnish a digital copy (which I don’t believe would be admissible in court; isn’t this guy supposed to be a legal genius or something like that?), don’t release it to Kos, and then say it was released to a neutral third party. That would be like Hitler releasing a questionable non-copy of his birth certificate to the Gestapo (but at least in that case the Germans knew they were electing a non-citizen).

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:45 am 53. David Thomson:

“So, prove me wrong, YO!”

It is not my primary obligation to prove you wrong. On the contrary, you are compelled to prove that you are right. Constitutional scholar and radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt reminds everyone that Barack Obama does not have to prove he is an American citizen! His detractors must prove that he isn’t. And I don’t see how that will ever be conclusively accomplished. Thus, I strongly urge my fellow center-right adherents to drop this line of attack. Barack Obama is already a marginalized president. Let’s focus on the issues which will more likely put a stop to his destructive goals.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:48 am 54. The South Plainsman:

This whole question could be put to rest very easily: Mr. Obama should consent to release the birth certificate.

Poof! The controversy goes away.

The same goes for the scholastic records. He is the President and this Congress is not about to remove him. What has he got to lose?

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:48 am 55. misanthropicus:

RE #6. A. Nonymous: [...] It’s time to give up on this one: Notice of Obama’s birth was published in the Honolulu Advertiser a few days after he was born, and unless [...]

Not so fast, Nonymous man – no one says that the Advertiser notice is a forgery. The problem with it is that:
* it simply proves nothing as to Obama’s being born in the USA, because those announcements at that time in Hawaii were simply copied from a HD log, log where “vital apparitions” were entered from many sources, as Owens points to the Plain Truth and other sources. That is, the Advertiser announcement has no PROBATORY/VALIDATION value whatsever and you just try to deflect people’s attention from this issue.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:50 am 56. scott:

You talk to a libtard and they do not care if Obama is a citizen. Naturalized or other. They do not care about his associations with Ayers or White. They do not care if he is qualified or not. All you ever get back from them is “GEORGE BUSH !!!” Blah blah blah blah ….. and blah.

The GOP needs to realize that half of America is really really stupid. The boob toob has turned their brains and hearts to stale goo. We have to find another Reagan to sell them on common sense and decency again or its curtains.

All I see is Sarah Pallin. The media hates her just as it did Reagan. We can use the media here. It should not be all that difficult to show folks that WHATEVER the media is FOR is exactly what they should vote against.

This should be the clarion call of the GOP. Every day in every way they should slander, vilify, attack and dismember the MSM. It should be a cake walk as the media has now openly shown itself to be simply the propaganda organ of the Rat party.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:52 am 57. misanthropicus:

Re #9/ faked birth: [...] I have been doing genealogy for 30 years. If you find problems with the persons birth certificate [...]

The answer to Nonymous (above) applies to you, too: those newspaper ads simply prove nothing as to Obama’s being born in the USA, because those announcements at that time in Hawaii were simply copied from a HD log, log where “vital apparitions” were entered from many sources, as Owens points to the Plain Truth and other sources. That is, the Advertiser announcement has no PROBATORY/VALIDATION value whatsever and you just try to deflect people’s attention from this issue.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:53 am 58. antaine:

The issue is not Indonesian law, but that “a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.”

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

I’m not saying it’s necessarily what happened here, but the “Indonesian citizenship issue” seem mischaracterized above. If his mother wanted him to have Indonesian citizenship as a child, and they required her to sign something that gave up US citizenship for him to get it (even if the US gov’t subsequently wasn’t told), he may very well not be a citizen.

Actually…without a visa, that would make him an illegal immigrant subject to deportation to Indonesia, no?

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:56 am 59. Daniel:

Obama is as American as any one of us.

What is the problem here? None. It is just banter and sad hollering that is producing nothing.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:58 am 60. misanthropicus:

RE #14/Войска ПВО: [...] there is a more important principle at stake here. If Obama is allowed to serve his one term out and it is discovered that he was not, in fact, a citizen or otherwise ineligible to have served as Commander-inChief, then this will set a dangerous precedent [...]

The nearer consequences are even more terrifying, my friend:
a) most foreign powers we are dealing with have researched Obama (thing of China and their Indonesian connections, or Russia), and probably have proof of him being an imposter, fact which makes him an easy prey to blackmail;

b) all treaties signed by Obama are susceptible for reconsideration, all other parties drawing blood from the US as they will see fit, bringing upon this country only misery, from scorn and ridicule to disadvantage, large (think billions) expenses, to loss of influence and jeopardising our military personnel abroad.

c) As far as locally, leaving aside the political costs, consider the fact that Obama is also CRIMINALLY LIABLE for charlatanie and swindling, because he rised more $700 millions in electoral funds from unsuspecting citizens UNDER FALSE PRETENSE, KNOWING THAT HE MAY NOT, LEGALLY, BE A UNITED STATES PRESIDENT.
I particularly love this last one, and I am looking forward to hear about the first Obama donor (debit card carriers included) suing him for false representation and asking for reparations – this can be the tidal wave overturning the YESWECAN boat, the DebitCard Revolt asking for proof that he hasn’t tricked them intoo spending their dollars.

A mess, a horrible mess generated by a narcissistic adventurer who cynically took advantage of the circumstances generated by an economic crisis & a cultural implosion. Yes, we can – this affair will have an ugly, ugly denuement, and MANE, TEKEL, FARES creeps on the wall…

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:06 am 61. Moogie:

After reading the description in the article about how Hawaii issues birth certificates, I am inclined to doubt anything that comes out of that “state.” It sounds phony up one side and down the other, no matter how you slice it. So even if they did manage to produce a “long form” or “vault form” of a Certificate of Live Birth for Obama, I would have serious doubts about its legitimacy.

Was Hawaii still that bassackwards in the early 60s? Criminy – I have an official copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for my mother, born in 1928 in a backwater eyesore, in her parents’ house. They had all of their children at home.

I was born in a hospital in 1957 and I have two “birth certificates”: the cute little footprinted, framed paper the hospital gave my parents, and the official stamped-with-county seal copy from our assessors office (cost: $5.00).

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:09 am 62. macko:

He may be able to prove he was born in hawaii but in doing so will somehow create some embarrassment. Such as being born a hermaphrodite or like someone else stated he used foreign citizenship for tuition gains.

Anyway although he said in school that he wanted to be president when he grew up he may not have toed the line while growing up and kept his mouth shut when soros tapped him on the shoulder

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:12 am 63. Lucy:

What all this hubbub boils down to is that people inherently recognize President Won is not one of us and it’s an attempt, however right, wrong or misguided, to explain why he’s so alien (anti-American).

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:15 am 64. Cato:

#34 Jonathan – the key point in the language you quote is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” which is legally rather unclear. For example, children of foreign diplomats born here do not gain American citizenship from the accident of their birth here. The laws governing citizenship where one parent is (or was) a citizen and where one is not have changed over the years. At various times, for example, women who were American citizens marrying foreign citizens either kept or lost their American citizenship, and either did or did not have the ability to pass their citizenship on to their children. (I found this because in doing geneaology research, I had to follow the twists and turns of this to see if someone was eligible for dual citizenship or not. Strange stuff.

My inclination is to discount the claim Bambi was born abroad, BUT, I am troubled by his unwillingness just to ask the Hawaiian state government to produce a certified copy of the doctor’s original report to the state authorities. The effect of the his mother’s remarriage and his sojourn in Indonesia are also matters I think should be clearly explained. Was he adopted by a foreign citizen and did he lose any American citizenship he had? Was he in fact raised as, and treated legally as, a Moslem? I think those are reasonable questions.

Likewise, it would be helpful – corroborative, not dispositive – to see how he was listed at Punahoe, and at Occidental and Columbia. Did he apply as an American or as a foreign student? When he traveled to Pakistan, did he have an American or some other passport? None of this is crazy or implies there was a conspiracy. Just that it makes no sense that all of this information — which if released would quickly answer the questions once for all — is being withheld and guarded closely.

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:22 am 65. James:

INSIDE SCOOP: I have a friend, who’s cousin knows a guy who works as a janitor at the government building where Obama’s birth certificate is held. Anyway, this janitor snuck a quick peek at the birth certificate and it states, and I quote: “Barrack Hussein Obama, born in Africa, can’t be Prez”. Now, all joking aside, there’s a reason why this story has traction. It’s because the man was born to a non-America who was lived in places other than America for a large portion of his adult life. Obama’s mother also lived over seas for quite a while, and young Obama not only lived over seas as a child, but attended a madrassa in Indonesia for several years. This begs the question: is it really “conspiracy theorist” to think that “Barrack Hussein” was not born on US soil? I would put the chances at at least 50/50. Those are very good gambling odds. And I’ll tell you, if I were Barrack Hussein, and born in Hawaii, I’d simply produce the records. Why does he not?

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:25 am 66. Strawman:

Constitutional scholar and radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt reminds everyone that Barack Obama does not have to prove he is an American citizen! His detractors must prove that he isn’t. And I don’t see how that will ever be conclusively accomplished. Thus, I strongly urge my fellow center-right adherents to drop this line of attack.

Quite the contrary. While this may never go anywhere in court, despite what the chattering classes insist, I think anyone who’s ever had to sit for an hour in one of those funky fiberglass ’60s chairs at the DMV waiting for #543 to be called will viscerally resent his high-handedness.

What’s going to take this entire cadre of donkeys (including Pelosi) down won’t be unpopular policy, but arrogance. Americans aren’t averse to dumb ideas (see: Prohibition, New Deal, Wage and Price Controls, Great Society, Jimmy Carter, etc.). But they won’t tolerate a snob.

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:58 am 67. Brian Richard Allen:

The sail-eared simpleton who, (prior to being elected via the several other taxpayer-remunerated vote “Present” positions he similarly-cynically regarded and abused and whose responsibilities he neither understood nor ever intended to perform and used only as springboards to his pretending to the United States “presidency) for years subsidized his subsistence by way of his disbarred-for cause “lawyer” wife’s sinecure and ever larger “equity” loans in a gangsterism-gotten house in which neither he nor she had/has any honestly-obtained “equity,” (got it?) has spent upwards of Two Million Dollars and will spend millions more — rather than pony up Fifteen Bucks for a birth certificate.

These simple facts surely wave a red flag visible even to the most retarded of those (as often as not hyphenated) “Americans” and/or criminal aliens who are too damned stupid to know they’re being lied to and who comprise the 90% the “Democratic” potty “base” not made up of the fascists, crypto-fascists and other lawyers, NEA-member tool schreachers and academics, who comprise the other ten per cent.

And it is the fact of the bloody-minded big Zero’s Multi-Million Dollar refusal to front up a Fifteen Dollar birth cert that will make it impossible that he not lose on this issue. Rather than the credibility or otherwise of the original inquiry.

And even those among us who are the most stupid of the stupid smell the rat.

As is already reflected in his now below 50% “popularity” polls showing — and in his -10% rating in the Rasmussen “presidential” approval index.

All of that is on the plus side.

The downside is that nary a (so-called) “Republican” politician — nor any of the East-Coast “establishment’s” self-anointing/self-appointing/self-perpetuating pundits — yet gets it that for Soros and the other fasciSSocialist manifestations of evil that manage the mobbed-up murtadd-Muslim one, to fail is to win.

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – Califobambicated 90028
And the Far Abroad

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:04 am 68. Steve:

Obama show us your stinking birth certificate. Why are you spending millions$ to prevent us from seeing it?

This ill informed creep Bob Owens doesn’t even ask how Obama got his passport to visit Pakistan in 1981 WHEN NO AMERICAN CITIZEN COULD DO SO.

He was most likely an Indonesian.

His father was a Kenyan.

This man is ignorant about our history because he spent so much of his youth outside of American culture.

That is why the Founding Fathers required ony “natural born” citizens.

If he does produce proof of natural ctizenship now, it will ONLY PROVE THAT HE IS THE DIABOLICABLE BASTARD THAT HE TRULY IS.

Why? Because he has made it so that any REASONABLE man would have to conclude he is hiding something.

Personally, I don’t believe this liar is natural born.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:04 am 69. Boris:

Birfers can always make me smile. Thanks, guys and gals!

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:17 am 70. Tom Holsinger:

The nirthers are doing us all a favor with their political Darwin Awards. All who promote this nonsense are eliminating their prospects for future political power.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:21 am 71. Billy:

He’s not responding because he doesn’t have to. Just because an individual citizen DEMANDS something, doesn’t mean that everyone has to hop to it. I DEMAND that you not demand anything from anyone. I DEMAND that wednesdays be renamed cheesedays from now on.

FACT: his campaign and administration has produced ample evidence of his united states citizenship. the mccain campaign was satisfied, a variety of federal judges across the political spectrum were satisfied – and the fact that any of you aren’t is no longer relevant. The fact that any individual is still not satisfied – is YOUR problem, not Obama’s. You are free to file suit, and have it thrown out like everyone else.

FACT: all the “evidence” cited is so absurdly thin that I would be embarrassed to mention it if I were any of you. Most don’t even remotely understand the constitutional requirement they are citing. Here’s something to keep in mind: the birth certificate is irrelevant, his mother is a citizen, he is a citizen. Even if he was born on the moon, in Iran, or Guatemala. Location is irrelevant… since his mother was an effin citizen.

FACT: You can’t renounce American citizenship based on requirement of another country. Read a book you dimwits. This is absolutely elemental – and described in some detail online. US citizenship is incredibly difficult to lose. It is incredibly difficult to renounce. ANd you can’t even renounce it under 18 years of age. Just because some other country doesn’t allow dual citizenship – its irrelevant. Welcome to a little concept known as sovereignty – US law is not contingent on any other country law.

Lastly – there is in fact a way to remove Obama – its called voting him out in 2012. Same way he got there in the first place, because an overwhelming majority of Americans voted him in. If you don’t like it – vote him out. But all this birth certificate BS is just a red herring. And will never, ever come to anything.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:26 am 72. Strawman:

AGW believers can always make me smile. Thanks, guys and gals!

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:31 am 73. Jack Okie:

#66 Strawman is right on.

#53 David Thompson:

The reason to pursue this is the light it shines on Obama. Forget any legal ramifications – the more his approval tanks, the more this “man of mystery” BS will aggravate the people and handcuff his agenda. And Hugh Hewitt became irrelevant during the 2008 campaign. Obama’s the President, not the friggin’ King; he can damn well accommodate the citizens.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:32 am 74. Jack Okie:

And one more thing, Mr Owens:

Obama has not released, or authorized the release, of basic CV material, such as transcripts. That is a FACT, not a conspiracy theory.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:38 am 75. misanthropicus:

RE #59/Daniel: [...] Obama is as American as any one of us. What is the problem here? [...]

If “God damn’ America!” is how Americans think (& feel) about America, then Obama is solidly American – try a different shot, Danny boy.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:45 am 76. sallie:

There is NO American with enough clout that will call this situation out.

Just show us the darned papers that we ask for!! Yeah, like that’s gonna happen. Soros and his friends have too much invested in Obama to allow him to fall

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:07 am 77. polkabout:

#34

The key, “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is exactly the fact you people cannot seem to understand. A person born on US soil isn’t automatically “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”. If one’s parent or parents isn’t of US citizenship, the child can be established as a citizen of the parent(s) country. The child, for instance, could not be drafted for service(subject to the jurisdiction thereof), just because they were born on US soil. You people need to wise up. This ignorance is one of the reasons that this country is in such financial trouble.

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:07 am 78. Anneke:

It would be very simple to resolve the controversy, so why not release the certificate? There may be other reasons, besides where he was born, that BHO will not allow the birth certificate to be made public: (1) no father is listed, or (2) someone other than BHO Sr. is listed as his father.

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:11 am 79. vivo:

Arnold Schwarzenegger anyone?

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:20 am 80. Stevemmn:

I like what one blogger said elsewhere. I could quibble over the exact numbers but they estimated there is a 45 percent chance Obama was born in Kenya, a 45 percent chance he is hiding something else, and a 10 percent chances he is just a very secretive man who is being stubborn.

Personally I rather doubt Obama was born in Africa although he certainly hasn’t proven otherwise. As vain as he is he might be hiding that he was born with a cleft lip and doesn’t want to spoil his image as a face man, so to speak, even going back to when he was an infant.

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:25 am 81. Billy:

“It would be very simple to resolve the controversy, so why not release the certificate?”

Because they don’t have to. No matter how much you want them to. The only way to force them is to file a law suit. Those have been filed and tossed out. Wanting something doesn’t mean someone is obligated to respond. Period, end of story. The fact that you or anyone else is not satisfied with that is irrelevant.

BTW – this issue is a wonderful wedge issue for democrats, along with creationism, which keeps everyone focused on the wrong issues, and paint the opposition as a bunch of radical nutjobs. We lost the election – finding a fluke “do-over” isn’t a strategy, its wishful thinking. The only thing we can do is vote him out in 2012.

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:29 am 82. Wolla Dalbo:

I suggest one other reason why Obama might be trying so hard to prevent the release of his original birth certificate, and one not having to do with being born overseas.

What if Obama–the son of a Muslim–was originally given the first name that so many other male children of Muslims are given–the #1 name now in London–of Muhammad, and that he knew that if he had to run under that name he would be very unlikely to have ever attained political office in the U.S. and certainly not the Presidency.

In this scenario, his more savvy American mother and relatives called him by a different first name and used it on the birth announcement and all subsequent paperwork, but his original birth certificate still lists him as Muhammad Barack Obama

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:30 am 83. EL:

For all the birthers demanding that Obama “release the certificate” – he HAS. He has released the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends to anyone who requests their birth certificate. It is the only one Hawaii has sent since 2001. So you are demanding something that Hawaii does not give.

Also, for those who say “experts” claim the certificate shown was photoshopped, there were two such “expert” claims. One was from a guy called “techdude” who was shown to have claimed someone else’s credentials. The other is from a guy who won’t give his real name or real credentials. The only other was a genuine expert who said she couldn’t be sure from an image and needed to see the paper. (Note that factcheck and others have seen the paper, and photographed and displayed the seal and signature birthers originally claimed weren’t there.)

Meanwhile, real experts who give their name and credentials freely have debunked the two alleged “experts.”

Keep trying, you’re just hurting the Republican party.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:01 pm 84. Miss Orange:

He’s not responding because it’s in his interest to end the drama on his own terms. He’ll wait until the birthers are at a fever pitch, and then calmly produce the evidence. We’ll ALL look like fools, and the next time we want to question the truth behind an Obama policy, he’ll sneeringly ask if we’d like to see his birth certificate again.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:05 pm 85. Strawman:

For all the birthers demanding that Obama “release the certificate” – he HAS.

Bullfeathers. That’s a flat lie. He released a digital copy with the number redacted. It’s not legally valid. A “certificate” that isn’t legally valid is worth as much as counterfeit money. Try to take a hundred dollar bill to a bank with the serial number blacked out, and see how far you get.

You are a liar.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:14 pm 86. Miss Orange:

54. The South Plainsman: What has he got to lose?

The sine qua non of his presidency: his aura.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:16 pm 87. John Blake:

In logic, one cannot prove a negative. In law, the burden accordingly lies not on “birther” plaintiffs to supply evidence of BHO’s “non-native” birth (more importantly, his manifest lack of serialized State Department documents renouncing known Indonesian nationality in favor of U.S.) but on BHO himself individually, personally, to produce proof-positive of his bona fides.

An independently verifiable American birth bertificate and valid U.S. passport are base-references required to obtain a driver’s license. Since early 2007, BHO has asserted on numerous occasions that such documents are in his possession. Not only has he failed repeatedly to release public records legitimizing his candidacy and incumbency, as required by law, but he has personally obstructed every lawful effort to do so.

Every court case, including the latest joined by senior military personnel as “of unparalleled importance to the (U.S. Army) chain-of-command” has been cavalierly dismissed or mooted by a craven judiciary unwilling to enter political minefields at any cost. BHO’s latest Clintonesque ploy is an Executive Order classifying all his personal records TOP SECRET on grounds of national defense (!). These include not only college transcripts showing his sub-mediocre grades but student-aid applications identifying him as an Indonesian foreign-national for scholarship purposes.

This debacle precisely mirrors the wretched John Kerry’s Service Form 180. Credible sources assert that Form 180 records Kerry’s Dishonorable Discharge, revocation of his self-awarded decorations, a description of his bum’s-rush exit from Vietnam after four months.

As in BHO’s case, argument by stipulation (“it’s false because I say so”) fails to address the substantive issue: Supply the records as proof-positive of your heroic service, or admit guilt by default. Last October, Judge Sirrick’s Federal Court in Philadelphia ignored its own deadline to declare plaintiff’s suit alleging BHO’s illegitimacy “ridiculous.” Not on legal grounds, because Federal Statutes explicitly adjudged plaintiffs’ allegations confirmed by no-response– rather on Judge Sirrick’s manifest unwillingness, contrary to his Oath of Office, to ignore legalities deemed inconvenient, fearing consequences regardless of the Rule of Law.

As this controversy inevitably escalates, we expect two things. First, BHO’s partisans will resort to racist epithets and worse; second, “conspiracy” will become a term-of-art, when in fact and law plaintiffs seeking proof-positive of BHO’s legitimacy adduce no such thing. The reasonable conclusion is that BHO does not produce base-level documentation because he can’t– neither a valid Birth Certificate nor Citizenship documents exist.

Two years ago, this should have been resolved. Not merely the self-serving BHO but his media enablers and complicit partisans knew all about it, guaranteed. There is even the bizarre circumstance that no coroner’s report, death certificate, will, or even an insurance claim shows BHO’s Granny Dunham –”typical white racist” that she is– actually deceased. Media attended a photo-op where BHO strewed “ashes” resembling sifted flour. Conspiracy! Is BHO sequestering Granny somewhere because of what she knows?

Unless and until BHO himself takes action, this “ridiculous” controversy will fester to the point of genuine political if not Constitutional crisis. Like Kerry, BHO could resolve it in two seconds. Strange how “healing” is never on a perp’s agenda.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:30 pm 88. EL:

Strawman, the certificate did not have the number blacked out. The scanned image had the number blacked out – big difference. The actual paper certificate was photographed by factcheck and shown on news programs – with the number visible.

Nice try.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:34 pm 89. Moogie:

No matter where Obama was born, he is an outsider. He isn’t one of us, he wasn’t raised as one of us, he didn’t grow up in the America that we grew up in (Hawaii’s culture is vastly different than America’s – in fact, there is a minor movement in Hawaii to restore the islands back to the Kingdom of Hawaii).

He didn’t grow up black, nor did he grow up white. He was raised part of the time as a muslim, in Indonesia. He went to Sunday school at a liberal church in Hawaii. He attended a black liberation theology church in Chicago for 20 years, where he listened to Rev. Wright preach hatred towards white people, America and Jews.

He truly is a man without a country.

What he knows about America and its culture has been learned, not lived. He has no empathy for Americans and he has no sympathy for American’s needs. No matter where he was born, he doesn’t belong in the White House.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:35 pm 90. GregGS:

Again, people keep thinking this is an argument that the P.T.O.’S. is not qualified as an American citizen, The issue to me is the fact that he, if born outside of Hawaii has Lied about
were he has been born. He was born by a woman who was a citizen of the U.S. thus he is a natural born citizen of the U.S. Now for a new conspiracy… Was he Adopted in Africa by his parents and is adoption by U.S. parents in foreign lands make the child a natural born citizen.

Talk amongs yourselves.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:38 pm 91. Moogie:

#88 EL: FactCheck is run by the Annenberg Challenge. There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that I would ever trust any kind of “fact checking” they did in regards to Obama.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:39 pm 92. EL:

“his manifest lack of serialized State Department documents renouncing known Indonesian nationality in favor of U.S.”

For heaven’s sake, read the law as listed on the US State Department web site. He does not have to renounce Indonesian nationality. What Indonesian law says about Indonesian citizenship or the lack thereof has no effect on US law.

Further, from reading on Indonesian citizenship, in order for him to have had it all, his mother would have had to become an Indonesian citizen – do you have evidence that happened?

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:42 pm 93. Oh Dear:

“The GOP needs to realize that half of America is really really stupid.”

Miss Orange echoes my thoughts exactly.
It seems to me the Dems are playing the birthers. Why do you really think that Matthews, for example, invites Liddy onto his show? Matthews is playing both sides very cleverly. He can humiliate Liddy and possibly convert some birthers, but in giving air time to supporters of this idea, he merely further fuels it. The real conspiracy theory is that the proof of Obama’s qualifications to be President DOES exist, but the Dems are going to continue to stoke this controversy until birthers and conservatives are interchangeable terms. The “proof” will then be released And who do you think is going to end up looking “really, really stupid” then?

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:10 pm 94. Strawman:

Show me.

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:18 pm 95. cedarhill:

Always believed Obama was un-natural so he could never be natural born. The founders, in the original signed version of the Constitution, had included the words “to guard against that 666 guy.” Rumor has it that Joe Biden lost this version and the rest is history.

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:22 pm 96. EL:

Moogie

You are in error. Factcheck is not run by the Annenberg Challenge. It is run by the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The only thing the two have in common was they were both funded by Walter Annenberg, lifelong Republican, friend of Ronald Reagan, and ambassador under Richard Nixon.

If Factcheck is so unreliable, why did Vice President Cheney refer the public to it to get the facts during his Vice Presidential debate?

Nice try.

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:23 pm 97. fnord:

We all secretly know the answer, dont we? He is a alien from Sirius, and all of this is part of the intergalactic war on mankind. That is what it sounds like to the average citizen, anyways. Sigh.

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:27 pm 98. homero:

O-bum-A has such a funny way of showing transparency.

school records …senate records …dealings with chicago crimminals etc,

that the citizens of the country cannot have such a simple question answered is unbelieveable.

….it is just like the muslims’ duplicity. (it’s only lying if it is to deceive another muslim ..but then since you don’t know who is a “true” muslim, lying is ok then too)

he is a fruad even if a natural born citizen. what a freaking joke !

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:32 pm 99. myth buster:

64. Everyone in the United States, except for officials of foreign governments and their families (and Native Americans belonging to autonomous tribes), is subject to the jurisdiction of the US. In other words, anyone born here to someone who can’t claim diplomatic immunity upon arrest is a citizen.

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:04 pm 100. misanthropicus:

RE #88/EL: [...] The actual paper certificate was photographed by factcheck [...]

Factcheck – an “institution” financially tied to the Annenberg Foundation, foundation in whose board Obama and Ayres sat for years (and dispensed money to worthy causes, as well).
EL – you brought Mike Nifong as character witness for Al Sharpton. I’m impressed. Edifying.

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:06 pm 101. Boris:

“Bullfeathers. That’s a flat lie. He released a digital copy with the number redacted. It’s not legally valid. A “certificate” that isn’t legally valid is worth as much as counterfeit money. Try to take a hundred dollar bill to a bank with the serial number blacked out, and see how far you get.

You are a liar.”

No. You are an idiot.

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:27 pm 102. clear mind:

EL: this issue is so easy to resolve. All BHO has to do is answer the questions honestly, rather than hide. But, as seen is recent weeks, BHO and the truth are not often found together.

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:40 pm 103. Typos_R_Us:

“In years to come when folks discuss the death of the Republican party, it will be YOU guys they talk about.”

Thank you! The GOP as it stands now is a pale copy of the Democratic Party and NEEDS to be dead. Period. McCain lost because Conservative saw no difference betweenn him and Berry. It seesm they were wrong and there is a difference.
You just don’t understand and never will get it.
America IS the Constitution. The Usurper has betrayed America by circumventing the Constitution. There will be a war over this, just as there was one in 1860, when Lincoln circumvented the Constitution by forcing States to remain in the Union.
Don’t rush out and buy and emergency radio just yet. It will be another year before things get nasty. I hope.

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:41 pm 104. Sallysue:

The fifth amendment to our Constitution allows for one to opt not to incriminate oneself. However, when the fifth is taken the person taking it is by and large assumed to be hiding something incriminating. The alleged POTUS, mr. soetero, does not have to tell Americas anything he thinks will incriminate him. No other POTUS has had the “Chicago Way” of taking the fifth or simply not replying to the questions of many Americans. That said, his refusal to release all his records reeks of something very wrong in his background. An honorable man would speak peace to the nation, allow his past to be researched by any and all and put to rest the American worries that he is somehow not eligible for POTUS. Please, barry, show us your records. I ask you before God to put this horror show to rest by showing us you have nothing to hide. Every night when I say my prayers, I ask God to help you be an honorable man and truly eligible to be my president.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:13 pm 105. Weaver:

Well if Obama just settled the problem once and for all, then all the Glen Becks and right-wing crazies won’t look like racist idiots anymore. Just think about it for a few seconds, do you really think this fight over birth certificate is hurting Obama?

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:18 pm 106. Phil Byler:

#81: They don’t have to because the requirement of “natural born” citizen to be POTUS in the U. S. Constitution has not been enforced. That is far, far different from creationism.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:27 pm 107. bob:

He was born by a woman who was a citizen of the U.S. thus he is a natural born citizen of the U.S.

You see, the point is the assertion is being made that it takes both parents to be citizens to make a Natural Born Citizen.

Thus, no divided loyalties. It is the reason the founders put the phrase in the document. Only for President. They did not want someone with possibly divided loyalties, like a person half Englishman/half American, for instance, running the army.

Please go to Natural Born Citizen and read all the very good information there.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:46 pm 108. Blarty Blarckleblart:

BHO has spent almost $1 million to protect his identity.

Link?

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:49 pm 109. zanne:

I still don’t understand why he has spent huge amounts of money to keep this sealed. Along with other records. Something is not right here. My guess is that he got student loans posing from another country.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:58 pm 110. John Blake:

To El, #92:

Dual nationality as such is a legal issue. But divided loyalty transcends mere technicalities because by nature it voids a Chief Executive’s solemn Oath of Office. Legal games take no-one anywhere: What counts is real Identity, Who You Are. A U.S. Chief Magistrate acts in fiduciary capacity, “taking care” to “faithfully” uphold the Constitution’s Rule of Law. As Commander-in-Chief, his acts conform to the Geneva Convention plus our Uniform Code of Military Justice (“martial law”). In this nuclear age, one not entitled to exercise such Constitutional authority jeopardizes his defrauded nation’s very existence.

Trivializing these commitments as numerous Federal Courts have done constitutes a grave disservice to the
American Nation on all fronts. Does anyone pretend that
a dual citizen of Germany would likely have prosecuted World Wars I and II against his second homeland? Conversely, would Iran or Russia, any polity whatever, entrust its destiny to one deemed fundamentally untrustworthy by reason of divided loyalty?

Like Kerry with his Form 180, Obama could resolve these issues at a stroke. For over two years now, he has repeatedly promised to vouchsafe his bona fides. Since inauguration, this in itself breaches his “good faith” fiduciary responsibility. No-one holds politicians accountable for every prevarication or misstatement, but there does come a point where basic questions demand an honest answer.

In the worst case, suppose a –hopefully counterfactual– scenario where BHO is definitively proven illegitimate, an impostor, a knowing fraud. All his appointments, legislative signatures, military orders would be invalidated, rescinded on the spot. “Constitutional crisis?” Civil unrest (sic) would be the least of it. Among other things, multi-trillion dollar partisan giveaways would require restitution.

This “birther” contretemps is at basis a preventive measure. A potentially illegitimate Chief Executive, perhaps even of dual nationality, is destructive not merely of his own but of America’s identity. The fact that BHO has let this “ridiculous” issue fester is itself the height of feckless irresponsibility. Nothing would please us better than to lay grave doubts to rest; but we do have to know.

Should the American public discover that their Chief Executive retains Indonesian as well as U.S. citizenship

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:08 pm 111. Clinton:

I have been reading these comments about the birth location since this mess started. It seems that 99% of the people have forgotten the story that was brought out at the very beginning. When Mr. Berg started this investigation, a group was sent to Mombasa, and found out that Obama`s Mother and Father had come to Kenya on a visit, before he was born. She grew tired of the trip and wanted to return to Hawaii. When she tried to get a flight, she was denied a ticket because she was close to term, and the airline didn`t want a problem on the long fight. Therefore, she had to stay, and had her baby at the Coastal Hospital there in Mombasa. There were, at the time, several people that remembered the white lady having a baby in the hospital. After she returned to Hawaii, she requested a birth certificate for the baby because she was still a US citizen.

One more thing… Sometime later,after the election, a radio station in Detroit, called the Ambassador (I think it was) in Mombasa, and after some leading questions, got him to tell them on the air, about how proud they were that he had been born there. They even had plans to celebrate the event…

For the record… I am a die hard Republican…

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:22 pm 112. moron:

http://obamadocuments.wordpress.com/

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:29 pm 113. moron:

http://obamadocuments.wordpress.com/20081216hello-world/

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:39 pm 114. B Dubya:

The time to challenge Obama’s citizenship was before the vote of the electoral college. It was the duty and responsibility of the electoral college to verify that he was and is a natural born citizen of the United States. It is possible that the electoral college, like every other political institution in this country since the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the US progressives, has been corrupted, but in any event, the college voted for Obama. That’s the end of it.

Unless you really want Biden or Pelosi in the Big Chair, people who remember what the republic is supposed to be should worry now about getting these people out of the government and geting them marginalized as they should be.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:41 pm 115. Billy:

#87:

You arguments are factually incorrect form start to finish. In this case, the law specifically states that the burden of proof is on those seeking to question citizenship, not the other way around. To have otherwise would be to lend credibility to every jackass demanding some proof of one thing or another. If you want proof – submit enough evidence that there is a legitimate question of authenticity. So far, no such evidence has been submitted.

You do not need a birth certificate AND passport for a license – only one or the other, and proof of residence (utility bill).

Claims from “senior” military personnel have been cavalierly ignored because they were specious and based on no factually verifiable issue. Just because I have a gut feeling that Obama is a martian – doesn’t mean I can claim conscientious objector status. The fact that you do not like him, does not change the fact that he is the commander in chief, and your behavior is treasonous. Military personnel do not get to pick and choose their leaders. The voters do. Otherwise you have a military dictatorship.

The courts dismissed the suits because they were groundless – again the burden of proof is on the petitioner, not the president. This is basic law. Your idea of “guilt by non-response” is so constitutionally invalid as to be both ridiculous AND horrifying. This means that I can file a lawsuit claiming that you are a pedophile – and the burden of proof would be on YOU to prove that you are not.

Ultimately – the biggest problem your argument has is that Obama supplied the documents required by law. You and all your fellow birthers are seeking a level of verification that has NEVER been asked of any other candidate or president in the history of this country. Ever. And HE’S the one being unreasonable?

Grow up. There won’t be an escalation, and there won’t be any constitutional crisis. Nobody cares except some 400,000 people in this entire country. Thats an infinitesimally small percentage of the electorate – and a wholly ignorable one. The only way to get rid of him is voting him out in 2012… everything else is a frustrated pipe dream, and ultimately useless and counterproductive.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:43 pm 116. B Dubya:

PS: I am petty sure Obama, as a minor child, was required to renounce his US citizenship to become an Indonesian citizen as a result of one of his mother’s marriages to men of color. I think that bears on the issue of citizenship also; he is a citizen, but a naturalized citizen.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:45 pm 117. David Thomson:

“After she returned to Hawaii, she requested a birth certificate for the baby because she was still a US citizen.”

Can you prove this beyond a reasonable doubt? I doubt very much that your theory can ever be proven conclusively. Thus, it is best that we redirect our energies elsewhere in trying to limit the damage of an Obama presidency. He is already rapidly becoming a marginalized figure. Let’s keep our focus on more rewarding strategies.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:49 pm 118. Strawman:

The jpg is an improvement over the pdf. There are no obvious flaws, as far as a photo can show.

So, answer this. Instead of trying to get these suits thrown out, why doesn’t 0bama just win one, and be done with it? Once you have a finding of fact in a court of law, it’s over forever (and no, you can’t just keep appealing findings of fact without a good reason).

You mean he’s not the most brilliant legal scholar in the history of the multiverse?

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:05 pm 119. EL:

To misanthropicus

“Factcheck – an “institution” financially tied to the Annenberg Foundation, foundation in whose board Obama and Ayres sat for years …”

You are in error. Obama sat on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a local initiative to improve Chicago’s schools. The Annenberg Foundation has a very small board, mostly family members, and Obama was never part of it.

An analogy to help you understand: the Gates Foundation funds many causes. Bangladesh Rural Advancement Committee received a grant, so did Tulane University. By your logic, a member of the Bangladesh committee would be able to tell Tulane University what to do because they both got money from the Gates Foundation.

These are the kind of errors, conflations, misinformation and speculations that underpin the “birther” beliefs.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:08 pm 120. Kriska:

#61 Moogie:
Spot on! I too have the two Birth Certificates you mentioned, only a year earlier (‘56). For yuks, I just wanted to see also if I had my parent’s on hand–and yes, Dad’s BC 1928 and Mom’s BC 1935. It is remarkable that I have these documents since they grew up on the Ohio River and were victims of the great flood of 1937. Mom’s house was completely swept away and Dad’s house was intact but all contents ruined.
Even though my folk’s hardship (evacuated with only the clothes on their back), I can produce official doc’s for myself and parents, but Obama cannot? Doesn’t really matter–the laws don’t apply to him anyway.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:09 pm 121. EL:

To B Dubya who wrote “I am petty sure Obama, as a minor child, was required to renounce his US citizenship to become an Indonesian citizen ”

Please read the U.S. State Department’s pages on citizenship. A minor child can’t renounce citizenship unless he convinces a consular official he understands the nature and consequences, and no parent or guardian can renounce on his behalf. To renounce, someone must be 18 years of age, and formally state they wish to renounce. It is unclear if Obama ever was really an Indonesian citizen, but at the age of 18 he would have lost it if he ever had it.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:14 pm 122. EL:

To Clinton: You wrote “When Mr. Berg started this investigation, a group was sent to Mombasa, and found out that Obama`s Mother and Father had come to Kenya on a visit, before he was born. She grew tired of the trip and wanted to return to Hawaii. When she tried to get a flight, she was denied a ticket because she was close to term, and the airline didn`t want a problem on the long fight. Therefore, she had to stay, and had her baby at the Coastal Hospital there in Mombasa”

Proof please. I’ve read this as speculation on the part of birthers, and seen absolutely no evidence.

For one thing, the Obama’s ancestral village isn’t very close to Mombasa – Nairobi, the capitol, is far closer, and travel in Kenya at that time wasn’t easy or fast – mostly by narrow gauge railroad with flights to big cities a few times a week.

For another, the majority of women in Kenya gave birth at home in 1961, not in a hospital.

Finally, Obama was born on the 4th and his short form birth certificate lists the filing date as the 8th. His mother would have had to start traveling the day after she gave birth to arrive in Hawaii in time to file.

But keep spinning out these theories with no evidence but “I think I read that…”. It’s entertaining.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:23 pm 123. blotto:

D. Thomson #53: The Dems have been getting away with vote fraud for years; the Dems have been committing fraud against the American public for years. So perhaps it is time, America stood up against these statists.

I think if we continue NOT to challenge the Dems, they will ruin our nation. Perhaps this is the start of undoing their lies. Look at what Obama has done to our nation, and nobody has challenged him…

I see this as a noble investigation into what we are already seeing as a corrupt POTUS and administration and Congress.

We NEED to start standing up for America at the risk of the Obamanots calling us names.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:24 pm 124. David Thomson:

I believe that a very good theory can be made asserting that Barack Obama’s underage mother gave birth to him outside of the United States. But so what? That does not constitute irrefutable evidence. It’s merely a somewhat entertaining possibility. The odds are strongly against one ever finding the necessary proof. It’s too late in the day for that to ever likely occur. Most of those directly involved are now dead. The remaining “witnesses” come across as confused and unreliable.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:29 pm 125. David Thomson:

“I can produce official doc’s for myself and parents, but Obama cannot?”

It legally does not matter. Barack Obama is not obligated to prove that he is an American citizen. The shoe is on the other foot. You must prove that he was not born in the United States.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:33 pm 126. Joe Camel:

53% of the population who voted for him did/won’t care if he is a citizen or not. He won, so we have to live with the results. The fact that so many don’t understand or care to understand ramifications of their choice. Lastly the fact that 96% + of blacks support this guy should show that they in fact don’t care about anything, as long as he is a black man. If this does not cause alarm to those who actually get it in life, nothing will.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:49 pm 127. Will:

TALK ABOUT DOUBLE STANDARDS !!

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:50 pm 128. progressoverpeace:

The meaning of natural-born must be looked at with respect to the person who proposed it and why he proposed it. In a July 25, 1787 letter, John Jay wrote to George Washington concerning ‘natural born’ citizens and the Presidency:

Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise & seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expresly that the Command in chief of the american army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.

At the time of this writing, there was no such thing as an American dual-citizen. Now, Jay was obviously not talking about a non-citizen being President, so his term of foreigner refers to one who had held another nationality. To Jay, therefore, and all of the Founders, a ‘natural born citizen’ was someone who had been born American and had never been anything but American. In their thinking, anyone who held a nationality other than American was bringing Foreign influence, since he held allegiance to a nation other than America. Therefore, in any reasonable assessment, taking on another nationality obviates natural born status (never to be regained) and reduces one to plain American citizenship – still an American citizen but not natural born and ineligible to hold the office of the Presidency. For anyone to argue with this obvious meaning of the Founders’ clause is to claim that dual/multiple citizens are eligible to be President, and that is about as insane a suggestion as I have ever heard. I think anyone with a brain knows what the Founders would think of having a dual-national in control of the Executive branch of our government.

Because of this and BHO’s own admission that he held other citizenships, he lost whatever natural born status he might possibly have had and is ineligible to be President. Anyone who has problems with this can complain to John Jay and his notions about keeping those who had held foreign nationalities out of the Presidency.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:54 pm 129. Eddie MacIsaac:

Birth Certificate is kind of a side show distraction. If his parents were whom he claims, only one of them was a citizen whose age prevented her from passing citizenship.

Both parents have to be American citizens for a child to be a naturally born citizen, no matter where they were born.

He is by his own admission, not eligible for office.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:09 pm 130. fear obama:

Finally, Obama was born on the 4th and his short form birth certificate lists the filing date as the 8th. His mother would have had to start traveling the day after she gave birth to arrive in Hawaii in time to file.

That doesn’t leave much time to post the newspaper article, does it?
Newspapers in 1961 usually had to have at least a one week notice.

Forget the birth-

if someone can show me an affirmative action school record with his showing he was a dual citizen of Indonesian or Kenyan then it will be fun to watch but not really an impeachment material.
Extra school money and free lunches are not high crimes or misdemeanors.

I would probably have used his dual passport to get me some extra credits.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:17 pm 131. Mike:

It is irrelevant whether Obama was born in the U.S.A. or not

What is important is

He is constitutionally eligible to be POTUS.

The 2nd Amendment requires that a person be a Naturalized Citizen to be President of the U.S.

Federal law requires that a person be born in the U.S.A. along with some other birth requirments for that person to be a Naturalized Citizen.

In order for a person to prove the above they need to have the proper type of Birth Certificate which shows among other things the attending Dr., the hospital name, the parents name.

Obama has not done this hence he hasn’t proven that he is allowed by the Constitution to sit as POTUS.

Whare is the Birth Certificate

Palin 2012 – Upbuilding the American Dream
Sarah of Liberty

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:06 pm 132. Nick Reynolds:

I think we can all agree that there’s some game afoot, considering that President Stupidly won’t release his full birth cert. or college documentation. Here’s my take. I worked at a major univ. for 10 years in the Tech. Services Dept. We handled issuance of ID’s, verified residency and did fraud investigation. During my time there we regularly dealt with people falsifying residency in order to take full advantage of changes in financial aid regs; especially students with foreign or multiple residencies. If in fact he was born here, (his granmama says it was Kenya), my money would be on the chance he falsified info on his Fafsa’s and various other documents in order attend school and pay for his education. My understanding is that he hadn’t been a US resident long enough, due to his Indonesian adoption, to qualify for many programs. If you’re bright, poor and show promise a good fin. aid counselor can walk you through the loopholes, which during his edu. career, were numerous. I would bet cold hard cash that he shows US, Indonesian, and Kenyan residency based upon which school he wanted to attend, his financial need, and on fin. aid regs of that time. Part of my job was to search for and weed out the most flagrant liars. That’s what I think. Some type of fraud may have been commited and I think he fears it will be found out.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:56 pm 133. EL:

Uh, Mike? One has to be a natural born citizen, not a naturalized citizen to be eligible for the presidency – go back and reread the Constitution.

And where in the Constitution does it say one needs the hospital’s name and the attending doctor’s name? It would have left out several of our previous presidents who weren’t born in hospitals. Try George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to start with. I didn’t check every president, but even presidents as recent as JFK and Ronald Reagan were born at home.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:10 pm 134. Well Educated Cad:

This Liar promised the US that he would have a “Transparent Presidency”. Problem is, he has been anything but. He will not release his birth certificate, school records, school records from Indonesia, college records, law school records, his thesis and uses a Blackberry to become the first ever President to have nonrecorded communication with anyone he choses. And he’s spending large amounts of money to keep these hidden. His medical records also have not been released- why? This guy is obviously hiding something. I would not deploy either if I was still in the military and this Bozo tried to call me up; not without proof that he is indeed eligible to be POTUS.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:54 pm 135. misanthropicus:

Re #108/ Blarty Blarckleblart: [...] BHO has spent almost $1 million to protect his identity. Link? [...]

Blarty dearest, you sure know that this is true – however, to go through the motions and show respect to PJM’s readers, I’ll direct you to a site that pedantically reords all the crap dripping from the ONE’s statue:

so, go to:
* http://www.therightsideoflife.com,
* then check under: Activism, Eligibility, Featured, POTUS, WorldNetDaily,
* WND (WorldNetDaily): Obama Campaign Paid $1 million to Fight Eligibility Lawsuits? (this is as of April, 2009, so the amounts quoted there (PDF accounting pages included) are much higher now.

P.S. “the amounts quoted there are much higher now”: Blarty, even with your rate of $1.25 a day for your intelligent services, this amount factored “n” times for other intelligent Obamatrolls like Vivo, Sheesh, Jack, Hurley, Se, and other Internet annelide sure adds considerably to Soetoro’s bill -

By the way, now the thing is that Soetoro’s an illegal, too – should we deport him to… Caracas? Transdniestr rebublic? Cambridge, Massachussets? Inciting thougths…
Blare, your input appreciated -

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:58 pm 136. misanthropicus:

RE #126. Joe Camel (aka Mental Giant): [...] 53% of the population who voted for him did/won’t care if he is a citizen or not. He won, so we have to live with the results. [...]

Joe (are you actually Joe Biden?), the fact that dba Soetoro won the election (and he did) and that many Americans don’t give a shit on whether he’s illegitimate or not (true, too), doesn’t oblige me or other concerned citizens abandon my (our) duty of pursuing the betterment of this nation.
MIGHTY TRUE.

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:04 pm 137. misanthropicus:

RE #114/B Dubya: [...] The time to challenge Obama’s citizenship was [...] It was the duty and responsibility of the electoral college to verify that he was and is a natural born citizen of the United States. [...] That’s the end of it. [...]

Good Soetorotroll, bad Soetorotroll -
B Dubya Soetorotroll, crappy shot at trying to look as someone who’s pleading for “post-post-partisan politics” and for having the citizery orient their interests to loftier issues than petty transgressions (anyway acquiesced by them, isn’t it?), like an illegitimate presidency.

Whatever you say, the issue is that Barry Soetoro is an illegitimate US president, and this fact will be sooner or later proved in spite of all media obstructions and sabotages, and the consequences of this “audacity” (AND OF YOUR COMPLICITY IN TRYING TO COVER IT AS WELL), will be enormous, awful and enormous -

Again, from me, to you, and with deep contempt: the consequences of this audacity and of your complicity in trying to cover it will be enormous –

Have fun – since Soetoro’s campaign commenced under the “God damn’ America!” sign, you’re certainly rejoicing the miseries this nation is going through -

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:26 pm 138. misanthropicus:

RE #70/ Tom Holsinger: [..] The nirthers are doing us all a favor with their political Darwin Awards. [...]
RE #71/Billy [...] FACT: his campaign [...] FACT: all the “evidence” cited is so absurdly [...] Lastly – But all this birth certificate BS is just a red herring. And will never, ever come to anything. [...]

FACT, AND A SIGNIFICANTLY MORE SIGNIFICANT ONE than your gibberish – the ample, unusually high presence of so many Soetorotrolls on this thread about Soetoro’s weakening and about the efficiency of questioning of his legitimacy shows that you’re spooked by this situation and out in the field in a sort of last effort, Kamikaze mission.

Before diving, check under MANE, TEKEL, FARES kids -

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:38 pm 139. BI:

If, and I saw “if” very carefully, the elected President is actively avoiding the release to the American people of documents which could be damaging to him, then America has a big, big problem.
I am sure that the Israelis, the Russians and the Chinese governments know more about the President than the American people do. What if any damaging information could be surreptitiously used to the advantage of these countries ie blackmail? Who is setting the agenda then? Are all decisions being made in the best interests of the United States?
Too many valid questions and no substantive answers. Even conspiracy believers can be right sometimes.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:09 pm 140. Marc Malone:

Mr. Berg has won his cases again and again, but eventually had his plaint dismissed, because the court deemed him to have “no special standing”. As long as I’m hurt equally as bad as everyone else, I have no recourse. Same with the unconstitutional deficit budgets. The Supreme Court is supposed to automatically void them as unconstitutional, but they don’t, and I can’t make them.

Berg has been determined to have met his burden of proof. The order was issued by the court that Obama provide proof of Natural Citizenship. The higher court threw it out on a legal dodge. The facts in the case were never refuted. The requirement of proof by the petitioner was met.

Billy – Your understanding of the Citizenship statutes is very flawed. Berg explained all this in his petition. He is right on the facts.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:23 am 141. Realist:

want to know lots more about the Obamanation, his Birth Cert LIES,his education LIES, his accociates , his family and well his BLATANT LIES.
Just go here its a very comprehensive fully documented site and researched .

http://www.theobamafile.com/

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:43 am 142. Realist:

And while you are at it Americans you might want to look at the USA Debt Clock and see what the forreeign born LYING Mohammedan Obamination is doing to your economy and to your children and your childrens children.

Don’t say you weren’t warned we have been speaking out about the Obamantion ever since he first came on the scene but your stupid biased MSM and ignorant gullible emotional juvenile voters and RACIST Blacks who voted for him 96% just would not listen.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:48 am 143. Realist:

As usual the ‘libtards’ have everything backwards the CONSPIRACY is on the part of those who WITHHOLD information not on the part of people who just want openness and truth. But as usual left wing PC MC mooonbats get everything the wrong way around.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:54 am 144. Sonja:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

It says “in the United States” NOT “on U.S. soil.” The United States is a nation, which is a people not a territory. A citizen is a member of a nation, not a piece of real estate.

It also says “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof…” Foreign nationals are NOT subject to the jurisdiction of the United States but to that of their own country. Minor, dependent children do not have the rights adults do and cannot be given any national/legal status above or beyond that of their parents.

You can’t tell me anybody born in my house is an automatic member of my family.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:22 am 145. Jeff:

Recently my son, who will graduate from college in December, 2010, began the application process for the U.S. Coast Guard officer’s program. The Coast Guard required the submission of his birth certificate.

Last year, my youngest son wanted to play basketball in a local sports league. Once again, the league required a bona-fide birth certificate before he could play.

Why then is it so difficult for President Obama to release his birth certificate? If it is legitimate, then he will make those demanding its release look like fools. And so the question remains.

Jul 27, 2009 - 3:37 am 146. Blarty Blarckleblart:

135. misanthropicus:

When even WorldNutDaily has the sense to punctuate the claim with a question mark (“Obama Campaign Paid $1 million to Fight Eligibility Lawsuits?”) you’re on pretty thin ice already.

WorldNut’s documentation showed that the Obama campaign paid Perkins Coie – a huge, full-service law firm – just over $688K for services rendered to the campaign, which probably included all kinds of legal work.

Apparently the extent of Perkins Coie’s work on the birther issue was to send one letter.

Now, Perkins Coie is expensive, no doubt. But if you think that they charge $688,000 to write and mail a letter, why, then I suppose you’ll believe that there’s no difference between $688,000 and $1 million, or that Barack Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii.

Jul 27, 2009 - 7:34 am 147. kim:

Just because your parents are US citizens, does not believe a child is automatically as well (if born outside of the USA).

I had to do some research for a project about a year ago. The information I found stated that the child holds citizenship of the country born in, UNLESS the parents register the birth with the US embassay, which they have a window of time to do. If the birth is not registered during that window, then the child still holds only citizenship of the country of birth.

Myself, I never thought of Obama’s birth certificate being an issue until recently. Things that have been happening of late have really started me to wonder. Now I am questioning his citizenship.

Jul 27, 2009 - 7:39 am 148. ked5:

94.

In other words, anyone born here to someone who can’t claim diplomatic immunity upon arrest is a citizen.

~~~~

Only a liberal could come up with such assinine logic. By that definition of “citizenship”, every one who holds a green card, student visa from another country, and ILLEGAL alien would be a citizen.

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:42 am 149. ked5:

92. EL:

Further, from reading on Indonesian citizenship, in order for him to have had it all, his mother would have had to become an Indonesian citizen – do you have evidence that happened?

~~~

Do a little more reading. His Indonesian step-father adopted him so he would 1) could gain Indonesian Citizenship (which requires renouncing all others) and 2) attend State Muslim school as he said he did in his book – which ONLY accepts Indonesian citizens.

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:46 am 150. ked5:

The 2nd Amendment requires that a person be a Naturalized Citizen to be President of the U.S.

~~~

Tell me you know the difference between *Natural Born* (citzenship confered by birth) and *Naturalized* (grandted later in life). The 2nd Amendment requires
POTUS to be *Natural Born* citizen.

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:48 am 151. ked5:

Yeah. An edit function would be nice to correct typo’s.

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:50 am 152. Kelly:

For those trying to use the birth announcements as proof – that’s just ridiculous too. It’s not all that difficult to change historical papers because they are simply scanned into a computer so unless there are historically intact *printed* copies of the mentioned birth announcements they could have been faked and cannot be used as definitive proof. Are the announcements simply in microfiche or digital format which could have been easily changed after the fact with friends in such places?

As everyone has said – it’s easy to stop the question – Obama must provide a full, original copy of the $15 birth certificate showing ALL the details of his birth. Case would be closed.

But it’s not and it should not be closed until this is done.

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:53 am 153. John Samford:

Sonja:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

A Red herring. The CONSTITUTION requires that an American President meet 3 criteria;
1) 35 years of age. This was supposed to prevent the President from pulling strings to get his son made President, thereby starting off a line of Kings. Remember that in the 18th century when the Constitution was written, 40 was OLD.
2) Natural born American citizen. This means born on American soil. This was included to prevent some rich Europen Prince from buying the Presidency. Buying votes wasn’t quite illegel at that time. The First Conressman from my district won by giving all those that voted for him a shot of whiskey.
3) 50% + 1 of the Electoral vote. In the 18th century, Congressmen were elected, Senators appointed. The Vice President was the guy with the second highest EV total. No Party politics back then.
In practical terms, this only become important if the Usurper fails. If he can create jobs, grow the economy, defend the foreign interests of American citizens, then no one will give a sh1t where he was born.
With the economy in meltdown, inflation raising and foreign enemies growing stronger, it becomes VERY important.

Now, if the left wants to allows foreign born citizens to hold the office of President, then they have to pass an amendment to the Constitution.

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:01 am 154. Ed Wallis:

I have only one question:

Why does the Right have such a penchant to “EAT YOUR OWN”?!

I do NOT see this as an “either/or” matter.

I do NOT see this as “distracting” from more important matters (as the legitimacy of our POTUS and compliance with the U.S. Constitution is a sorta kinda groovy thing IMHO).

Why the insults?!
Why the degradation?!?

Let’s bring him down as best we legally can, but as soon as we can, EITHER by vote OR disqualification. I do not know “the best” method; can YOU claim to?!

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:05 am 155. Yankeefan:

Nick Reynolds: I believe you are correct about the fraud soetero made with the college loans/scholarships. He also stated on his application for his Illinois law license that he had used only the name obama, that he had not used illegal drugs, and that he had no outstanding parking tickets(we do know he used the name soetero on his Indonesian school records, he states in his books he used illegal drugs, and the parking tickets are general knowledge). He then gave up that license to practice law in Illinois when the mis-statements were challenged and it looked as if the court would revoke his license(the court did revoke Michelle’s law license). If a man lies and cheats in little things, he will do so in large things. More Americans are beginning to grasp there is something fishy about the alleged POTUS. Other fishy things about his past include: the true identy of his father. Why did the Dunhams leave their good jobs in Seattle so quickly and move to inferior ones in Hawaii? Some think Ann had an affair with Malcolm X the summer she graduated from high school. If this alleged affair resulted in a pregnancy, barry would have been born sometime between March and May of 1961(being the illegimate son of Malcolm X would bring benefits such as Percy Sutton recommending him to Harvard, but also problems as Malcolm X was shot a few years after barry was born). If she had the child of Frank Marshal Davis concieved in Hawaii (Davis writes of an affair with Ann) he could have been born in August. If either of these guys was the real father, barry would be natural born, but America would not want him as POTUS. Another fishy item: the trip to Pakistan when he was 20. what passport did he use? who did he see there? what training did he get in Pakistan? Another fishy item: was he formally adopted by Soetero Sr. taking away barry’s US citizenship? So many questions and no answers. The trolls on this site continually ask for proof of this and that, well, there is no proof as barry has sealed his records on the first full day of office with Executive Order 13489. There are only questions, questions, questions. The more barry hides, the more suspicions grow.

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:28 am 156. The Shadow:

When a conservative shill like Ann Coulter deserts you on an issue, you know you are living a fantsy life

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:51 am 157. The Shadow:

Phil Byler – If you are a Harvard Law Grad, based on your post one can only concludet that the school must have really let down its requirements to admit you

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:56 am 158. The Shadow:

It is great to see the flat earthers come out in force. What a pitiful buch of dopes!

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:04 am 159. Jenny Greenteeth:

Isn’t the real issue about Obama Snr. being a Brtish Colonial citizen and lsater a Kenyan rather than about where Barry himself was born?

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:23 am 160. Yankeefan:

Jenny G. #159: Yes, that is one of the main issues. Obama/Soetero/Dunham tells us his father was the Kenyan guy, but there is no proof, no marriage records, no any records, he just states his father was Kenyan. If that is true he is not a natural born American with BOTH PARENTS AMERICAN and born on American soil. However, Michelle is seen in a YouTube video stating about barry’s mother, “she was very young and very SINGLE” when she birthed barry. Ann Dunham may not have known which black guy donated the sperm for barry. So, it’s possible Barry is the child of a black American father. Who knows? Probably Barry is unsure who daddy was.

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:52 am 161. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Yankeefan

barry has sealed his records on the first full day of office with Executive Order 13489

That’s not what EO 13489 does.

Jul 27, 2009 - 11:15 am 162. Yankeefan:

The question of obama’s bona fides is a top story over at POLITICO with over 1100 comments. since politico is a lefty blog, the problem of obama’s bona fides is stated as a republican problem.

Jul 27, 2009 - 11:23 am 163. Blarty Blarckleblart:

150 ked5

Tell me you know the difference between *Natural Born* (citzenship confered by birth) and *Naturalized* (grandted later in life). The 2nd Amendment requires
POTUS to be *Natural Born* citizen.

I think the needle on my Irony Meter just broke off.

Jul 27, 2009 - 11:26 am 164. goy:

All this endless theorizing is just a red herring, and distracts from the fact that BHO has never proven his Article II eligibility. 99% of his defenders fall back on the fallacy that we need to prove he’s lied. Sorry, no. The only document he’s released on this – whether it’s a forgery or real – is not proof of natural born citizenship.

When you read State of Hawaii law that controls this document, two things become clear.

First, a birth occurring outside Hawaii can be legally registered in Hawaii. What this means is that the newspaper notice folks point to – as “proof” that BHO was born in Hawaii – is not proof at all. That is, the birth notices are simply driven by new registrations which, according to Hawaii State Law, may have occurred outside Hawaii.

Second, Hawaiian birth registrations can be legally amended (i.e., altered). Hawaii law does not stipulate which elements of a registration may or may not be changed.

Most important of all, and completely ignored by almost everyone who discusses this issue, is this:

Even the State of Hawaii itself will not accept its own Certification document as proof of native born Hawaiian status.

From the State of Hawaii DHHL:

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.
 
[emph. in original]
 

The reason Hawaii will not accept a Certification document as proof of natural born Hawaiian citizenship is because it may represent an amended registration. And according to Hawaii State Law, altered registrations have no intrinsic probative value. That is, they can’t be used legally for proof of anything.

The Certification document, which the State of Hawaii will not accept as proof of natural born citizenship is the exactly type of document BHO defender’s expect the rest of us to accept as “proof” of BHO’s natural born citizenship.

But y’all keep beating your heads against that other brick wall. It’s become rather entertaining. When the sh!t really starts to hit the fan and BHO’s approval drops below 25%, you can bet your collective @$$es that this issue will come up again. And he won’t be able to hide behind an army of attorneys any more.

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:14 pm 165. homero:

thanks for posting the links below …interesting and scary reading …and not surprising since O-bum-A used nasty (deceifull) tactics since day one in Chicago.

112. moron:
http://obamadocuments.wordpress.com/

Jul 26, 2009 – 4:29 pm

113. moron:

http://obamadocuments.wordpress.com/20081216hello-world/

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:29 pm 166. Paul in MI:

So how about an amendment making naturalized citizens eligible for the office of the President. No grandfather clause for Obama whether he’s legit or not, let’s keep partisan politics out of it. I’d support this amendment. Anyone else?

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:45 pm 167. Mike W.:

I just wish one of you cowards would just come out and admit for once that the reason for all this crazy lunatic birther consiracy crap is because you just hate the fact that a black man is POTUS.

The birther conspiracy is just a convenient myth for racists that allows them to pretend that hating the president is a matter of citizenship and documentation when it is clearly a pathetic and anti-American racist attack.

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:48 pm 168. Ed Wallis:

Thank you, Mike W. #167, for showing all of us here just how – and I’m being pretty generous here – one dimensional you Leftists are. I mean, air in the head still has ONE dimension, doesn’t it?!

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:17 pm 169. Clayton E. Cramer:

for all this crazy lunatic birther consiracy crap is because you just hate the fact that a black man is POTUS.

Uh, bad news: a prominent Democrat, a supporter of Senator Clinton, is who first filed the suit.

The only colors that matter on this are red and green.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:29 pm 170. Hotpatch 6:

I am not a conspiracy nut, but why the reluctance to release ANY documentation? What could be in college transcripts, in Harvard Law Review records, in State Department passport records, and in student loan documents that is so worrysome? What would possess someone to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep common documents away from public scrutiny? Seems kind of odd to me.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:45 pm 171. Mike W.:

169. Clayton E. Cramer: “Uh, bad news: a prominent Democrat, a supporter of Senator Clinton, is who first filed the suit.

The only colors that matter on this are red and green.”

I find it hyterical that you would make the argument Democrat support for the birther conspiracy gives it more credibility. Apparently to the crazy right wing, Democrats only have credibility when they are supporting crazy right wing conspiracy theories.

Sorry Charlie, but just because a Democrat is involved with this kooky bull**** doesn’t make it any less crazy. All it means is that there are also crazy racist idiots in the Democratic Party too.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:51 pm 172. Blarty Blarckleblart:

169 Clayton Creamer

for all this crazy lunatic birther consiracy crap is because you just hate the fact that a black man is POTUS.

Uh, bad news: a prominent Democrat, a supporter of Senator Clinton, is who first filed the suit.

Which doesn’t disprove the original point.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:55 pm 173. Blarty Blarckleblart:

170 Hotpatch

Have you tried to get any of those documents?

Has anyone?

Or do you all just claim that it’s impossible to get them – without really trying?

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:57 pm 174. Ratatosk:

Politics 101… and all of the Birthers are falling right into it. Here we have an issue that smacks of patriotism, smells good to people that wish it to be true andd has a few statements, when taken at a glance seem credible. However, on actual research… none of them hold up to scrutiny. So why is this happening?

Simple… Obama is taking advantage of human gullibility. He’s facing a crappy economy, two wars, a TARP program that was crap even before he got his fingers into it and healthcare reform which has everyone up in arms. How better to distract everyone from real, serious issues? Indulge the fringe theories… promote the stuff that looks completely nuts, to which, by comparison, socialism is sane. The GOP KNOWS Obama is legit. The DNC KNOWS Obama is legit. The MSM is not going to ask and that leaves only the Net and the blogsphere… the one area that Obama has little to no control over. So, rather than clearing up the Birth Certificate issue, he lets it linger, fester and anyone who WANTS to believe it, can… and they’ll talk about it, spread it and discuss it.

Leaving less time to talk about, spread and discuss the auto industry or health care.

There is no credible argument that makes Obama ineligible for the White House. There is NO further documentation available. The document he displayed (and has been confirmed by the state) is the ONLY NECESSARY FORM. He can use it to get a driver’s license, he can use it to get a passport. According to all the Laws of the Land… THAT DOCUMENT makes him eligible to serve as POTUS.

That is the end of it, no matter what a mail in lawyer would like you to believe.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:12 pm 175. misanthropicus:

RE #146/ Blarty Blarckleblart: RE 135. misanthropicus:

2) [...] WorldNut’s documentation showed that the Obama campaign paid Perkins Coie – a huge, full-service law firm – just over $688K for services rendered to the campaign, which probably included all kinds of legal work.

3) Apparently the extent of Perkins Coie’s work on the birther issue was to send one letter. [...]

Blarty, it pains me gigantically to say that you’re liar, but, by Golly! I say it – and here’s why:

RE #1: When quoting the WND numbers, I stressed that the numbers I invoked were as of April – now we’re in July, and it is reasonable to say that in the past three months Soetoro’s legal expenses have increased because the intensification of the fight and because,

RE #2: not only that Perkins/Coie lawyers haven’t limited themselves at writing just a single letter, BUT THEY ARE PRESENT AT ALL PROCEEDINGS REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND MANY THEY ARE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, as you are well aware of,

Then, you fail to take in consideration that it’s not only Perkins/Coie that toil for Soetoro, but other law films across the contry, like… Musick, Peeler & Garrett of Los Angeles, who are on barricades trying to stop the release of Soetoro’s Occidental College transcripts that show that he, while there, receive financial aid as a foreign, Indonesian student.

Blarty, Musick, Peeler & Garrett work @ $350 an hour buddy, and are pretty busy trying to show in the Court why Soetoro’s records at Occidental should be kept secret -

So, with these in mind, I think that as of this days, the $1 million in defense payments figure is actually a pretty conservative one -

Now to bring some levity in this matter: just saw Gibbs latest number about birthers – boy, does this guy has a future as contortionist at Cirque de Soleil!
Also, Blarty, don’t despair, there is life even after Soetoro’s gonna been deported – I can see you very well, top hat & tuxedo introducing the unbelievable mister Gibbs’ contortion numbers at the Pomona County Fair.

Yours -

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:14 pm 176. misanthropicus:

RE #167/ Mike W.: [...] and admit for once that the reason for all this crazy lunatic birther consiracy crap is because you just hate the fact that a black man is POTUS. [...]

Freudian slip, Mike – since you can’t find any way to defend Soetoro, you run around accusing anyone who legitimately wants to scrutinize the past of this Manchurian candidate as… racist.

Mike, hasn’t the Gates/Obama thing showed you what a crappy line of thinking you’re following?

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:19 pm 177. misanthropicus:

RE # 174/ Ratatosk:[...] So why is this happening? Simple… Obama is taking advantage of human gullibility. He’s facing a crappy economy, two wars, a TARP program that was crap even before he got his fingers into it and healthcare reform which has everyone up in arms. How better to distract everyone from real, serious issues? Indulge the fringe theories… [...]

Ratatosk, dear, it looks that you Soetorotrolls are completely out of ammo when you come with this nutty theory of deception – so far you made it as the funniest troll on this page.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:24 pm 178. Yankeefan:

John McCain was allowed to be a Presidental candidate even though he was born in Panama on a US Navy Base American Hospital. Questions were raised by the New York Times about the natural born requirement of our Constitution and on April 10, 2008, Senators Leahy, McCaskill, Obama, Coburn, Clinton and Webb declared (Passed a Senate Resolution) the natural born requirement was met only by having TWO PARENTS US CITIZENS AND BORN ON US SOIL. The Navy base was considered US soil and McCain was considered Natural Born. Senator Leahy asked then head of homeland security, Chertoff, what the definition of natural born citizen is and Chertoff replied: “if you are born of American parentS, you are naturally a Natural Born American Citizen.” Chairman Leahy replied: “That is mine too.” So, John McCain was held to the Constitutional requirments, but obama was not. Why? Should not both candidates have two parents who are American citizens? Or, are just white guys held to the Constitution? Why do reporters not ask why what’s good for McCain is not required of affirmative action disaster obama?

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:25 pm 179. Blarty Blarckleblart:

175. misanthropicus:

not only that Perkins/Coie lawyers haven’t limited themselves at writing just a single letter, BUT THEY ARE PRESENT AT ALL PROCEEDINGS REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND MANY THEY ARE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, as you are well aware of…

Why no, I’m not aware of that. You have links? Perhaps a breakdown of the work Perkins Coie did for the Obama campaign on the birther issue, other than the one letter?

…Musick, Peeler & Garrett of Los Angeles, who are on barricades trying to stop the release of Soetoro’s Occidental College transcripts…

Link that shows they work for Obama?

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:29 pm 180. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Yankeefan

…on April 10, 2008, Senators Leahy, McCaskill, Obama, Coburn, Clinton and Webb declared (Passed a Senate Resolution) the natural born requirement was met only by having TWO PARENTS US CITIZENS AND BORN ON US SOIL.

Take out “only” and you’re right.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:33 pm 181. David W. Lincoln:

Doesn’t Obama have a half brother and a half sister
that reside outside of the United States? This avoidance of what is damning speaks volumes upon volumes of the nefarious and mendacious human like
entity in the Oval Office that concludes that words
have the definitions he wants them to have.

This speaks to desperation on the part of the Dems
because of their obstructive ways of what is truly American since 1968.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:38 pm 182. misanthropicus:

RE 179/ Blarty Blarckleblart: RE 175. misanthropicus:
[...] Musick, Peeler & Garrett of Los Angeles, who are on barricades trying to stop the release of Soetoro’s Occidental College transcripts [...] Link that shows they work for Obama? [...]

Blarty, in case you think that this “links?” thing of yours is a smart tactic, think twice – it’s mighty counter-productive, only shows that you trolls have been reached the bottom of your bag as ingenuity (in case you had any) and all what you hope is that tergiversation and obfuscation might help your Manchurian dude get out of this mess. He won’t, and deeper and deeper you guys go in the hole – and I truly enjoy the show.

Here’re the quickest thing about Musick & Cie in Obama/ Occidental affair: WDN and the Right Side of Life

WND which keeps track of everything (actually Los Angeles Times, poor them, has mentioned this situation several times) has the following:

========+=======
WND
Litigation over Sen. Obama’s Citizenship: Interesting concept Obama opposes
Posted by: Admin on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 – 07:15 AM PST

Interesting concept Obama opposes the production of the requested records.

Bob Unruh reports that a high-powered team of Los Angeles attorneys representing Obama in his effort to keep his birth certificate, college records and passport documents concealed from the public has suggested there should be “monetary sanctions” against a lawyer whose clients have brought a complaint alleging Obama doesn’t qualify for the Oval Office under the Constitution’s demand for a “natural born” citizen in that post.

The suggestion came in an exchange of e-mails and documents in a case brought by former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others in California. The case originally sought to have the state’s electors ordered to withhold their votes for Obama until his eligibility was established. Since his inauguration, it has been amended to seek a future requirement for a vetting process, in addition to the still-sought unveiling of Obama’s records.

In the case, being handled largely by Gary Kreep of the U.S. Justice Foundation, he recently subpoenaed the records documenting the attendance by Obama, or possibly the student when he was known as Barry Soetero, from Occidental College.

The lawyer for the college, Stuart W. Rudnick of Musick, Peeler & Garrett, urgently contacted Fredric D. Woocher of Strumwasser & Woocher.

“This firm is counsel to Occidental College. The College is in receipt of the enclosed subpoena that seeks certain information concerning President-Elect Barack Obama,” he wrote via fax. “Inasmuch as the subpoena appears to be valid on its face, the College will have no alternative but to comply with the subpoena absent a court order instructing otherwise.”

Within hours, Woocher contacted Kreep regarding the issue, telling him, “It will likely not surprise you to hear that Obama opposes the production of the requested records.

“In order to avoid the needless expense of our bringing and litigating a Motion to Quash the subpoena, I am writing to ask whether you would be willing to agree voluntarily to cancel or withdraw the subpoena”

Woocher warned, “Please be advised, in particular, that in the event we are forced to file a motion to quash and we prevail in that motion, we will seek the full measure of monetary sanctions provided for in the Code of Civil Procedures.”

Why?

Is it a coincidence that both the Occidental lawyers and the Obama lawyers have addresses at 100 Wilshire Blvd, Los Angeles? And, that Woocher, selected as a “Southern California Super Lawyer, 2009″ practices “political law” — what’s “political law?”

There’s at least 48 legal cases attempting to gain access to various documents from Obama’s past. In this one case, Obama is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to hide his bona fides, and using a “Super Lawyer” to do it. You do the math. Obama is spending millions to hide his past from the American People.

Why?

Watch this case. Occidental’s lawyers say they have to comply with Gary Kreep’s subpoena. Watch to see how Obama’s lawyers attempt to manipulate the justice system to quash this subpoena.

======*======

See, Blarty, ounterproductive tactic – now everybody on this thread has more information on this matter, fact that YOU DON”T ACTUALLY WANT THEM TO HAVE.
Keep doing it, buddy: normally, when you’re in a hole stop digging y/self deeper – but it looks that this good idea doesn’t work for you and Soetoro.
Need links about “digging oneself in a hole?”

Heh, Blarty, you made my day -

Jul 27, 2009 - 3:18 pm 183. Still Bill:

Pregnant Mexican women come across our border every day because they know the advantages of U.S ciizenship for their babies, and that has nothing to do with a future run for the presidency. As an American citizen, I have a right to know if Obama was born here or not. The fact that he won’t release his original birth certificate leads me to believe that he wasn’t born here.

Jul 27, 2009 - 3:20 pm 184. Blarty Blarckleblart:

182. misanthropicus:

Your link does not show that Musick, Peeler & Garrett work for Obama. To the contrary, in fact; they work for Occidental College.

So why would Obama owe them fees?

Also, nothing on the Perkins Coie work, eh? Too bad, that.

Jul 27, 2009 - 4:03 pm 185. misanthropicus:

RE #184/ Blarty Blarckleblart: RE 182. misanthropicus:
[...] Your link does not show that Musick, Peeler & Garrett work for Obama. To the contrary, in fact; they work for Occidental College.So why would Obama owe them fees? Also, nothing on the Perkins Coie work, eh? Too bad, that. [...]

Blarty, you sorry Soetorotroll –

here’s you #1 (Musick & Cie. lawyers for Occidental, not for Obama), from WND, one of the commonest sources for checking on Barry’s miseries (“DEFENSE LAWYERS FOR OBAMA”) capitalization from me:

=====+=====
WND-OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL
California used to check prez candidates’ eligibility
Lawsuit seeks school records to verify citizenship status
Posted: February 28, 2009/12:30 am Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

A California lawsuit seeking documentation from Occidental College that could verify the nationality under which Barack Obama entered the school points out that the state formerly reviewed presidential candidates and disqualified those who were ineligible.

The arguments are raised in paperwork submitted by Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation, which has brought a lawsuit over Obama’s eligibility.

===> next sentence, Misanthropicus capitalization:

“DEFENSE LAWYERS FOR OBAMA ARE TRYING TO QUASH THE REQUEST FOR OCCIDENTAL RECORDS”, arguing that any objections to Obama’s presidential candidacy and victory should have been raised in Congress at the time of the Electoral College vote.

However, according to documentation in the lawsuit, the secretaries of state in California previously have exercised their election authority and have rejected candidates who did not qualify.

“As stated in our previous pleadings herein, former California Secretaries of State have taken legal action to remove individuals from the ballot for failure to comply with the eligibility requirements to serve as President of the United States, although, in those cases, the issue had to do with the ‘age’ requirement, not the ‘natural born citizen,’” the USJF said.

The filing continued with the warning, “If MR. OBAMA is not constitutionally eligible to serve as President of the United States, then no act that he takes is, arguably, valid, the laws that he signs would not be valid, the protective orders that he signs would be null and void, and every act that he takes would be subject to legal challenge, both in Courts of the United States of America, and in International Courts, and that, therefore, it is important for the voters to know whether he, or any candidate for President in the future, is eligible to serve in that office.”

The case documents previously explained that in 1968 the Peace and Freedom Party submitted the name of Eldridge Cleaver as a qualified candidate for president, and then-Secretary of State Frank Jordan “found that, according to Mr. Cleaver’s birth certificate, he was only 34 years old, one year shy of the 35 years of age needed to be on the ballot as a candidate for president.”

USJF explained that “using his administrative powers, Mr. Jordan removed Mr. Cleaver from the ballot. Mr. Cleaver unsuccessfully challenged this decision to the Supreme Court of the State of California, and, later, to the Supreme Court of the United States.”

The USJF said similarly, in 1984, Peace and Freedom Party candidate Larry Holmes was removed from the ballot.

Even in the 2008 campaign, foreign-born third-party candidate Roger Calero was removed from ballots in some states, according to elections reports.

Obama, meanwhile, has refused to document his U.S. citizenship and, therefore, his eligibility to be president under the Constitution’s requirement for a “natural born” citizen, his challengers say.

“MR. OBAMA’s actions to block any attempt to inquire into his status as a ‘natural born citizen’ raises questions which must be answered in order to avoid a situation where, perhaps several years in the future, it is discovered that he was not eligible to serve as President of the United States, and, therefore, all of his acts would be null and void, and that the resulting chaos could lead to a constitutional crisis, immobilizing the United States,” the USJF said.

WND has reported on dozens of legal challenges to Obama’s status as a “natural born citizen.” The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

Some of the lawsuits question whether he was actually born in Hawaii, as he insists. If he was born out of the country, Obama’s American mother, the suits contend, was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time.

Other challenges have focused on Obama’s citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. The cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.

Where’s the proof Barack Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the “natural-born American” clause in the Constitution? If you still want to see it, join more than 295,000 others and sign up now!

Several of the cases have involved emergency appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court in which justices have declined even to hear arguments. Among the cases turned down without a hearing at the high court have been petitions by Philip Berg, Cort Wrotnowski, Leo Donofrio and Orly Taitz.

The USJF case was filed on behalf of presidential candidate Ambassador Alan Keyes and others.

As part of the case, a subpoena was served on Occidental College for its records. School officials immediately contacted lawyers for Obama and said the demand would have to be answered unless they intervened.

Obama’s lawyers then submitted a demand to the court arguing the case was moot because the election was over and the correct place to resolve such concerns was in Congress. The lawyers also alleged a variety of procedural errors.

In his response, Kreep pointed out that Obama’s lawyers failed for 27 days to notify the USJF of alleged procedural errors. He said the housing and academic records are of prime importance.

“From those records, statements as to whether MR. OBAMA is, indeed, a ‘natural born citizen’ may be found,” he said. [...]”

=============* ===============

“DEFENSE LAWYERS FOR OBAMA” Blarty, “DEFENSE LAWYERS FOR OBAMA”, want more links, more proofs?
Why don’t you look at poor Gibbs’ face, or at what a nice monkey wrench has today Inhofe thrown in your machinery?

As far as your #2 (Perkins), baby, that’s been covered so I don’t need to address it again.
Links? Heh!

Jul 27, 2009 - 5:12 pm 186. smrstrauss:

Re: “If the matter of his birth is so straight forward how come Obama has been paying numerous lawyers to defeat the many lawsuits?”

Because all the lawsuits were to stop the election, stop the certification of the election, or, now, to nullify the election.

There has not been a single suit against Obama simply asking to see his birth certificate.

Jul 27, 2009 - 5:21 pm 187. smrstrauss:

Re: “There is a perfectly simple way for the Obamanation to settle this and that is to produce or allow the production of his ‘Long Form’ Hawaii Birth certificate at a cost od $15.”

In Hawaii the birth certificate actually only costs $10. Obama has spent the $10 and has posted, and shown to FactCheck AND Polifact, the only birth certificate that Hawaii currently sends out, the Certification of Live Birth. http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html

Since that is the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends out, and it is the one that it sent to Obama, unless Obama has a copy of the original sent to his parents, and did not lose it (and it is likely that he did lose it; many of us do), then all that he can post or show to anyone is what Hawaii sent him, which was the Certification of Live Birth.

This is the legal birth certificate of Hawaii,and it is accepted as proof of birth in Hawaii by the US State Department and the branches of the US military.

Two officials of Hawaii looked into Obama’s birth file and said that there was an original birth certificate in the file. Since Hawaii did not allow foreign birth certificates to be filed in 1961, the original birth certificate in the file can only be a Hawaiian birth certificate.

And this was confirmed in a press interview (supplemented by the same thing in writing in an e-mail) which was done by the spokeswoman for the Department of Health of Hawaii and quoted by the Chicago Tribune (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

And in addition to all that official proof that Obama was born in Hawaii, there is this witness who confirms hearing about the birth to a woman called Stanley at the time, and writing about it to her father, who also was called Stanley. (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)

Jul 27, 2009 - 5:27 pm 188. misanthropicus:

Re #187/ smrstrauss:
* [...] Obama has shown to FactCheck AND Polifact [..] the Certification of Live Birth. [...]
* [...] Two officials of Hawaii looked into Obama’s birth file and said [...]
* [...] this witness who confirms hearing about the birth to a woman called Stanley at the time [...]

Hey, smstrauss, there is much, much more evidence of the convincing type you mention confirming Obama’s apparition in Hawaii:

* there is this man at the Central Station who heard from someone coming from Detroit that a woman called Stanley had a baby with an African;
* then there are these two respected businessmen from Oahu who heard in 1967 that in 1961 a woman Stanley had a child,
* then there is this retired janitor at the Hawaii HD who specifically remembers how he overheard in 1973 two official talking about Africans born in Hawaii,
* then there is this respected pastor at a local church who vividly remembers seeing ol’ man Dunham with his litlle african nephew on shoulders watching the return of the Apollo mission,
* then there are these twelve Columbia students who vividly remember how Obama told them not to call him Soetoro anymore and how hard he was working on his two graduation thesis there, the “Soviet-US Nuclear Disarmament Issues” and “North-South Postcolonial Relationships Issues”;
* then there is this panhandler in Djakarta who vividly remembers how Obama told him in 1965 that he was born in Hawaii in 1961;
* then there is this man Blarty who specifically remembers about a link which lead to a link which lead to another link which lead to a site which had an authentic picture of Obama’s BC,
* then there are those pesky dogs that appear day in day out and eat anything that can be a material evidence in the Soetoro case,
* then there are all those Monty Python outtakes with you Obama-Clowns contorting, trying to prove that black is white and upside is downside, and yesterday is tomorrow,
* then, there is this respected man Joe Biden who is totally behind what you’re saying ….

I’m impressed – links?
Oh, man I have tons of fun with you guys – links?

Jul 27, 2009 - 6:27 pm 189. homero:

187. smrstrauss:

you sound like the Obama blogger talking points.

your arguments sound plausable but they are incorrect.

1)even Hawaii state representatives said the COLB (cert. of live birth) wopuld not nesacarily be a valid document to get a passport or drivers licence.

2)the COLB does not always mean you were born there.

3)one does not sue to see his birth cert, …they are sueing to prove that he is or isn’t a qualified candidate

4)you say there was some one who remembers him being born in Hawaii …well his grandmother remembers being at his birth in Kenya

5)the is a long form of a BIRTH Cert. which is not the same as a COLB

WHY wont he show it (the birth cert.) …or other documents that would show his birth (school registration records, passport etc)

I don’t know if he is born in the USA or not but for some one to go to such lengths to prevent the documentation from being shown is strange UNLESS YOU ARE TRYING TO HIDE SOMETHING. (in which case it would not be strange)

I do not intend to put any links up because I don’t think it is that easy to change someones mind about something like this.

really …it would mean you are and have been wrong all your concsious life

Jul 27, 2009 - 6:48 pm 190. Russell E. Jewell:

Has it occurred to anyone other than me that the birth certificate is not the problem for Obama but that he may have stated on other documents (e.g., scholarship, grant, and college applications) that he was not a citizen because it was to his benefit? It would seem to pose a more serious problem on a number of levels and would explain the reluctance to release any and all documents.

Jul 27, 2009 - 6:57 pm 191. Russell E. Jewell:

It is my understanding that there is a reluctance to release a number of records including academic records. The point being that it may not be that there is no birth certificate as much as some documents say one thing and other documents say another.

Jul 27, 2009 - 7:11 pm 192. Hi:

In 1993 Congress and the President decided they had something to apologize for. Most of Public Law 103-150 deals with the events of the 1893 overthrow and the 1898 annexation. But one important clause relates directly to 1959 and the present:

“the indigenous Hawaiian people never directly relinquished their claims to their inherent sovereignty as a people or over their national lands to the United States, either through their monarchy or through a plebiscite or referendum.” (emphasis added)

Interpreting the above-quoted clause of the Apology Resolution, international law Prof. Francis A. Boyle (Univ. of Illinois College of Law) stated on Dec. 28, 1993, before the state’s Hawaiian Sovereignty Advisory Commission:

“Congress is effectively conceding now that the (1959 statehood) vote is meaningless, as a matter of international law and United States domestic law. So you’re not bound by it. Rather I’m suggesting you’re now free to determine your own fate pursuant to the principal of self-determination.”

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/statehood.html

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:27 pm 193. joetheplumber:

Why doesnt Barry release it already??? That in and of itself is a red flag……..Many of Barry’s records are missing for some reason. What is he hiding????????? The community organizer!

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:37 pm 194. misanthropicus:

RE # 190/191. Russell E. Jewell: [...] It would seem to pose a more serious problem on a number of levels and would explain the reluctance to release any and all documents. [...]

Very possible, anything from GSL fraud to whatever – simply put, anything that could shed a light on one or another rung of Obama’s career is completely out of reach. Completely -

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:59 pm 195. Dave II:

All you “newspaper announcement” Obamabots who think that is “proof enough (because, really…how could a “conspiracy” involving a 50+ year-old newspaper be credible) need to read this:

How does July 22, 2008 sound as the birth announcement discovery date. You see, the address listed on the birth announcement was never the Obama’s address, as they never lived together as man and wife.

The address listed is 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, and was the residenc of Orland Scott Lefforge, a Professor at UH at Manoa, Dept. of Speech. Later, he became an assistant to Sen. Daniel Inouye in 1967. After that he wrote a paper about “In service Training as an Instrument of Change” (1971). He was also an administrator in the UH Community College office, and a member of the Osher Institute. He died July 4, 2007 at the age of 91. His wife/companion Thelma Jones Lefforge Young died June 12, 2008.

Ten days from Lefforge’s death is plenty of time to cut, typeset, & paste a new birth announcement. From what I’ve read, the announcements were scanned and emailed by the librarian in Hawaii to a blogger named Lori and then to the TD [texasdarling.wordpress.com] blog.

Unfortunately, they should have put more time into researching a safer and more practical address. Whomever suggests that CIA is behind this has got to be joking. No one at the agency would have been so stupid as to have chosen an address that is easily traced to a family occuping the home. Nor would they have selected a property grossly beyond the means of the supposed occupants.

In 1961 the Dunhams lived on Kamehameha Avenue, while Obama Sr. lived on 11th Avenue. The Lefforge family, including their 3 children under the age of seven were residing at the luxury home listed on Obama’s newly found birth announcement — 6085 Kalanianaole Highway.

It is highly improbable that the Lefforges would move an African 25 year old male and his pregnant teenage girlfriend into their home. Why would anyone want unemployed college students and a newborn baby living in their family home with their own three young children?

And since the Mr. Lefforge died 10 days prior to the appearance of the birth announcement that listed his address, we can’t ask him. But we do know that the next door neighbors testify that Obama, his mama, and his ‘papa’ never lived there. What a tangled web of lies…

Not a shred of evidence links the Dunhams or Obamas to Kalanianaole Highway. Kalanianaole only surfaced in connection with the Obamas in July 2008. I don’t think a commemorative plaque on the old homestead will be nailed up anytime soon.

I wasn’t necessarily tying the date of the release of the Certificate with the June 12, 2008 date. I was trying to see how the sudden discovery of the birth announcement coincides with the death of the legitimate owner (witness) of the home that was alleged to be the first home of Obama.

So in other words, the recent death announcement of the 1961 resident triggers the announcement, since now it is presumed to be a “safe address” to utilize as home plate.

Mrs. Lefforge (not Mister) passed away June 12, 2008. Forty days later, her address was found to be used as the first home of Obama.

The Microfilm In Hawaii, WND was able to locate at the Honolulu public library microfilm of a notice placed in the Sunday Advertiser Aug. 13, 1961. The announcement in the “Births, Marriages, Death” section read: “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4.”

Arakaki told Baro’s investigators she had no recollection of Obama being born or of the family living next door having a black child born to a white mother.

Baro sent a team of investigators to Honolulu to explore records regarding current residents of Kalanianaole Highway and to track down residents back to 1961.

Baro’s investigators were unable to locate any current or past resident of Kalanianaole Highway who could recall Obama or his family living at the address listed in the Sunday Advertiser announcement.

Baro also sent investigators to the newspaper offices to examine files, but the Advertiser could not confirm who actually placed the ad.

According to Baro’s affidavit, Beatrice Arakaki affirmed she was a neighbor of the address listed. She has lived at her current residence of 6075 Kalanianaole Highway from before 1961 to the present.

Moreover, Arakaki said she believed that when Obama lived with the Dunhams, his grandparents, the family address was in Waikiki, not on Kalanianaole Highway.

Baro was able to determine the previous owners of the residence at 6085 Kalanianaole Highway — the alleged address of Obama’s parents when he was born — were Orland S. and Thelma S. (Young) Lefforge, both of whom are deceased. ****

Just so you understand how deep the conspiracy runs on the cover-up of President Obama’s origins, his Hawaiian school file for kindergarten has gone missing! His is the only file from his class to have disappeared. In it would be his certified copy of his Birth Certificate, his real name, his birthplace, his vaccination record up to that date. There would be no embarrassing records as to his achievements or lack thereof – ‘cause few people have any at five years of age.

The only reason possible to hide this birthplace information is that he wasn’t born in the United States.

Unfortunately, they should have put more time into researching a safer and more practical address. Whomever suggests that CIA is behind this has got to be joking. No one at the agency would have been so stupid as to have chosen an address that is easily traced to a family occuping the home. Nor would they have selected a property grossly beyond the means of the supposed occupants. They would have safely chosen Bear-icks or the Dunham’s address. This birth announcement was done by someone wishing to uplift the early status of their beloved leader by selecting a pricy address and not doing their homework….”

“…. So in other words, the recent death announcement of the 1961 resident triggers the announcement, since now it is presumed to be a “safe address” to utilize as home plate.

Mrs. Lefforge (not Mister) passed away June 12, 2008. Forty days later, her address was found to be used as the first home of Obama….”

“…WND was able to locate at the Honolulu public library microfilm of a notice placed in the Sunday Advertiser Aug. 13, 1961. The announcement in the “Births, Marriages, Death” section read: “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4.”

******************************

So according to World Net Daily there IS a microfilm in the Honolulu library which has the newspaper birth listing! Now we’re getting somewhere! Unless the Conspiracy managed to obtain an unexposed roll of 1960’s microfilm stock (and in only a few days!), the library roll is either on new film stock, or the library roll is the original with the relevant frame cut out and a new one spliced in, which would be obvious by inspection. Get Beckwith or World Net Daily to the Honolulu library stat to look at that roll! The proof of the Conspiracy is within your grasp!

The Lafforges were both professors at the University of Hawaii, had three children (none of whom were half-white and named Barack Hussein Obama), and were very, very progressive-type liberal activists. The Obamas never lived together as man and wife, and they never lived with the Lafforges. These are the facts.

That birth announcement is a fake. So is the Certification of Live Birth (COLB) posted online that supposedly proves our President was born in Hawaii. Why do I say that?

Because so far he has spent over a $1 Million with a Washington, D.C., law firm fighting to prevent disclosure of his Birth Certificate.

Something SMELLS like DEAD FISH wrapped in this newspaper announcement!!!!

This ain’t over by a longshot!!!

Jul 27, 2009 - 9:22 pm 196. Dave II:

More “food” for thought:

“2d Session S. RES. 511: Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.: In the Senate of the United States.” was Sponsored by Senator McCaskill and co-sponsored by Senators Leahy, Obama, Coburn, Clinton and Webb. Why? Why were Democratic Senators trying to pass a Resolution making Senator McCain undoubtedly Legally Eligible when this issue had already been cleared up in 2000 and again in 2004? And why did Senators McCaskill and Obama reportedly insert the following Clause?

“Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;”

This Clause has no particular relevance to McCain and the following Clause, which it is reported McCaskill and Obama attempted to REMOVE shows that:

“; and Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936:”

It seems clear that McCaskill and Obama were attempting to create a blanket Resolution covering ALL Foreign Born candidates. Why do that if not to benefit a Foreign Born Democratic Candidate, who did not have a US Military background?

McCain did not need this resolution, Richardson did not need this Resolution, so far as I can see nobody needed this Resolution unless somebody in the race was born outside the USA and was “Covering his/her Ass” and the only individual in the race that that could apply to was Senator Obama! This in turn would show that the now President is a liar who has been peddling untruths about his birth for at least 16 years!

Coupled with this troubling tidbit:

“Obama’s Senate efforts to airbrush his past were augmented by his top Intelligence Advisor in March 2008. Obama’s Intelligence Adviser Involved in Security Breach. Obama’s top terrorism and intelligence adviser, John O. Brennan, heads a firm that was cited in March [2008] for breaching sensitive files in the State Department’s passport office, according to a State Department Inspector General’s report released this past July. The security breach, first reported by the Washington Times and later confirmed by State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, involved a contract employee of Brennan’s firm, The Analysis Corp., which has earned millions of dollars providing intelligence-related consulting services to federal agencies and private companies. During a State Department briefing on March 21, 2008, McCormack confirmed that the contractor had accessed the passport files of presidential candidates Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and John McCain, and that the inspector general had launched an investigation. Sources who tracked the investigation say that the main target of the breach was the Obama passport file, and that the contractor accessed the file in order to “cauterize” the records of potentially embarrassing information. In a video of Obama’s reaction to the break in…he says TWICE that his reason for being concerned about the matter is not that he is concerned about what the records may reveal about himself…but..

Yeah, right! Remember folks…this was ALL passed off as the “work” of the BUSH ADMINISTRATION at the time, when in fact, it was LATER revealed to be Obama’s own Intelligence Adviser Involved in Security Breach confirmed by State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, involving a contract employee of Brennan’s firm, The Analysis Corp!!!!!!!!!

For a reminder of the “OUTRAGE” following this incident, that so quickly became a “non-issue” in January of this year, look at this video from Keith Olbermann’s show. Looking back at what we know NOW…Obama’s outrage all makes sense!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kak15GbiZTA

Somehow, the phrase, “though doth protest too much” comes to mind!

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:04 pm 197. bob:

Yes, REJ, that’s kind of flitted about in my brain too.

Whole thing is beyond strange.

And on top of it all, he’s still got the Natural Born Citizen problem, if the courts would ever look at it. Citizen mother, citizen father, he doesn’t have. He’s got one, but not the other.

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:04 pm 198. Dave II:

More “SMELLY” food for thought:

Where is Mr. John O. Brennan, the former CEO of
The Analysis Corp and a former CIA agent who was an adviser to Mr. Obamas presidential campaign…

TODAY????

Why he’s ensconced in the White House as a Presidential Advisor known as the Homeland Security/Terrorism Czar!

Yesiree!!!

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090721200033AAuF89W

And a witness who was cooperating with the Feds in the investigation into to the Passport break-in????????

He’s dead. Shot to death in his car.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/

Yeah…no “conspiracy” here….let’s move on….

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:32 pm 199. Dave II:

The “smell” just keeps on coming…

For all you “progressives” that might be lurking on this site, and like to laugh at all the silly conjecture and “birther” arguements…

Doesn’t it bother you that Obama FLIPPED on FISA?

Didn’t that just come out of left field and get your panties all in a bunch???

Want to know why he did it?

Hint: It certainly wasn’t because had a massive “change of heart” in his liberal/progressive noggin..

He did it to “protect” John Brennan…the man (with 25 years of CIA experience under his belt) who protected him!

Yep. Ol’ John Brennan (now “protected” in the White House with a non-confirmation appointment) was a key man behind the illegal surveillance program from at least May 2003 through December 2005–precisely the period when the program was such an object of controversy.

Even today, Obama and Eric Holder are refusing to prosecute illegal domestic surveillance because they’re protecting one of “their own”.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/did-obama-flip-flop-on-fisa-to-protect-john-brennan/

It’s called “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”…or more precisely, “you save my ass and I’ll save yours!”

i.e…politics as usual!

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:59 pm 200. WhyamInotsurprised?:

It is absolutely fu*king unbelievable that anyone in the position of POTUS would not be required to have a background check. Maybe regular background checks (say at election/reelection time) by the FBI would keep these crooks in check somewhat. Maybe, but doubtful. But with all the Top Secret information the President has access to, I for one, insist that this person have a background check. To me the fact that “the people” elected him/her is no excuse for no conducting a check. It is simply irresponsible.

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:13 am 201. bobby bb:

“why doesn’t he just produce his birth certificate?” HE HAS! No one has their original birth certificate…no one. We all get certified copies with the state seal. My state issued me a short form. It was never questioned, not by Social Security, not for passport, never. I don’t have a long form. Do we not see that this controversy only helps Obama and the Dems? Rather than focus on issues, we focus on a conspiracy theory that has already been debunked by many, even far right folks such as Bill O’Reilly. This reminds me of all the folks who thought the Clinton’s murdered their enemies. But, heh, go ahead and focus on this and help Obama.

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:20 am 202. John "birther" Samford:

“why doesn’t he just produce his birth certificate?” HE HAS! No one has their original birth certificate…no one.”

No Bobby, he hasn’t. What he produced was a photoshopped copy of someone else’s birth certificate. FYI, Photoshop is a Graphic Image Manipulation program. It allows one to take computer picture files and change them. Advertiser use it.
Movies use GIMP ( Graphics Image Manipulation Program) mostly. That is how those special effects come to exist.

Here is an URL to a site that claims the BC is NOT a forgery.
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/5626
The author ( Who not registered as a Forensics Documents Examiner) admits that it was photo shopped, but not to worry, it doesn’t mean anything!

“Unless your comparing apples to apples there is no way to determine a forgery.”

Completely wrong and demonstrating a serious lack of knowledge on the subject.

Here is the other side of the story;
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12932.htm

There, you have both sides of the argument.
The point is that there shouldn’t be an argument. Berry should grant permission for Hawaii to release a copy of his Birth certificate.
Why hasn’t he? The only reasonable conclusion is that there is something he doesn’t want everyone to see on that birth certificate.
Trotting out a pet Democrat from the State of Hawaii isn’t going to make this issue go away, since it doesn’t answer the basic question, which is what is on the Birth certificate that Berry is hiding?

In the end, the Birth certificate WILL be subject to public scrutiny, even if it’s years down the road. This needs to be done as soon as possible, so that when it turns out that he isn’t a ‘natural born American citizen’ and all the legislature he signed become null and void it will be easier to undo it.
The Usurper is about to get his first Supreme Court nominee on the bench. Once he is proven to be an illegal President, that nomination will be null and void also. What happens to the decisions she makes is a whole great big can of worms.

Jul 28, 2009 - 5:36 am 203. misanthropicus:

RE #201/bobby bb: [...] Do we not see that this controversy only helps Obama and the Dems? [...] But, heh, go ahead and focus on this and help Obama. [...]

Oh, Bobby, you’re so astute! You see so well how questioning Soetoro’s legitimacy actually helps the Dems! Thanks God, Bobby is here and shines light on things!

Bobby, pathetic Soetorotroll – this controversy doesn’t help the Dems at all, at all, and a good illustration of the furious exasperation amongst liberals when they see how the agenda is not under their control anymore is to look at media protestations…

… and at the swarm of trolls like you out trying to confuse, persuade or discourage anyone who dares to explore Obama’s illegitimacy.

Bobby, you woudn’t be here if this issue wouldn’t pain the Obamaton front. So, considering how things develop, expect further pains, baby – I and all other like me will listen with delight to your excoriations about how we help the Dems instead…. heh-heh-heh…

Links? Heh-heh-heh…

Jul 28, 2009 - 5:37 am 204. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Lou Dobbs, at CNN….

….is saying that the birth certificate was ‘destroyed’.

I can imagine it would have to be, having been written, IMHO, from Kenya. Such evidence would be too damning.

Meanwhile, Hawaii cannot come up with someone stupid and/or dishonest enough to sign off on a phony birth certificate.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....It may have to wait until 2011, when Obama supporters have to produce evidence that he is a natural-born citizen in order to get him on the ballot in several states that now require such evidence.....]

Jul 28, 2009 - 5:51 am 205. Chuck Pelto:

TO: bobby bb
RE: REALLY??!?!?!?

No one has their original birth certificate…no one. — bobby bb

I’ve got MINE. Care to see it?

“why doesn’t he just produce his birth certificate?” HE HAS! — bobby bb

Show it to US. Please.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....bobby bb has 'issues' with comprehension. He's probably STILL in grade school.....]

Jul 28, 2009 - 5:55 am 206. Carl Sesar:

If my being a “birther” means first of all that I accept Baby Obama was born as a result of the
sexual union between a man and a woman, as it has been alleged, then yes, I am a “birther,” and so’s everybody else on this blog. But documentation for that allegation is both so flimsy and faulty, it might just as plausibly be argued that his was an immaculate conception. Louis Farrakhan has already proclaimed to the world that Barack Obama’s the Messiah, there’s no dearth of adoring throngs and true believers, and, as Mr. Soetoro himself announced, right from the get-go: I am the One the World has been waiting for.

We have a problem. The power to move Heaven and Earth is too hot to handle. All the more reason, then, why it’s absolutely necessary to unravel the mystery of what’s-his-name’s birth.

Jul 28, 2009 - 6:16 am 207. Pete:

Keep talking about it guys, this issue is clearly a winner for the right.

Jul 28, 2009 - 7:30 am 208. Blarty Blarckleblart:

185. misanthropicus:

Your mistaken impression about the nature of the lawsuits was corrected by another poster at 186. I hope you’ve figured out where you were wrong now (other than by using WND as a source for anything).

Jul 28, 2009 - 7:57 am 209. Ratatosk:

Well, I’m neither a troll nor a progressive… but if you’re bound and determined to stick with this, there’s not much I can say otherwise.

It’s just a waste of your time and energy… like voting for a third party during the last election.

Awesome. Good Job!

Jul 28, 2009 - 8:39 am 210. Federale:

Please also note that Dr. Chiyome Fukino’s statement has no legal standing in the first place. You can’t be prosecuted for lying to the public. Second, even if the statement were under penalty of perjury, all it says is that the certificate is real and legal. It does not say that the documents support the claim that Obama is a natural born citizen. But more importantly, the laws that provide for the birth certificates do not necessarily provide evidence that Obama was actually born in the State of Hawaii.

Jul 28, 2009 - 10:00 am 211. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Ratatosk
RE: Heh

It’s just a waste of your time and energy… like voting for a third party during the last election. — Ratatosk

Think it was bad LAST TIME?

Just wait. The Republican party has ONE LAST CHANCE. And…based on some of their actions since the 2008 fiasco….

…..they may not even have THAT.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Go read your history on the rise of the Republican Party in the 1850s……

….we may see that repeated…..

Jul 28, 2009 - 12:08 pm 212. frank grimes:

17.vivo.”If President Obama is not a N.B.C., Joe Biden is next in line; then, Nancy Pelosi”

that terrifies you as much as it does the rest of us,admit it.

misanthropicus.have you seen ths movie by chance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Proposition

good stuff.

as far as obama and his COLB….again..occam’s razor,people.

Jul 28, 2009 - 12:10 pm 213. Sulaco:

Humm, birth certificate the “blue dress” of 2009?

Jul 28, 2009 - 12:22 pm 214. Middleman:

I have my own conspiracy theory. Orly Tatiz, the RUSSIAN pushing this birther movement, is in fact a Russian FSB agent pursuing this particular agenda in a bid to divide the US to the point where Igor Panarin’s prediction about the US breaking up becomes reality.

Jul 28, 2009 - 12:42 pm 215. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Humm, birth certificate the “blue dress” of 2009?

Yep. They’ll have equal success in removing a president from office.

Jul 28, 2009 - 12:45 pm 216. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Sulaco, et al.
RE: Blue Dress, Anyone?

Humm, birth certificate the “blue dress” of 2009? — Sulaco

Why does this seem to ONLY HAPPEN with ‘Democratic’ administrations?

That and lies that cost 58K American lives and 4 million southeast asians? E.g., Gulf of Tonkin ‘Incident’?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Seeing a pattern of behavior characteristic of ‘Democrat’ presidents…..

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:04 pm 217. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“Yep. They’ll have equal success in removing a president from office.”

Lol – which explains your typical progglodyte’s dogged, desperate defense of the beloved Affirmative Action present-dent, to the tune of like 50 posts a day. As some one else said, Occam’s Razor. Not sure that the cover-up is due to him not being natural born, but perhaps it’s something embarrassing that will put the lie to his carefully-constructed autobiography. Most likely that he is the son of pedophile/radical Frank Marshall Davis.

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:04 pm 218. frank grimes:

214.that is not the way security services operate,the russians have plenty of dirt on obama(including his original COLB),and they will use it when the time is right.

if Igor Panarin’s predictions come true,we will most likely have WW III,the real players in the world do not envision that,they simply want us weakened and controllable.

feel that soft,gentle sliding around your neck…it is either a leash or a noose,but it ain’t no scarf,good job 53%.

hope and chains.

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:09 pm 219. Blarty Blarckleblart:

As some one else said, Occam’s Razor.

I’m starting to think you guys don’t really know what that term means.

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:43 pm 220. frank grimes:

219.blarty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

“The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.”

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/occam.html

Occam’s razor is often cited in stronger forms than Occam intended, as in the following statements. . .

“If you have two theories that both explain the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along”

“The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations.”

“If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest.”

“The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.”

apply the theory to the facts,champ.

Jul 28, 2009 - 2:06 pm 221. misanthropicus:

RE 208. Blarty Blarckleblart: RE 185. misanthropicus: [...] I hope you’ve figured out where you were wrong now (other than by using WND as a source for anything). [...]

Blarty, so you deny that Musick & Cie work for Obama in the Occidental College case?
Can you prove this?

Jul 28, 2009 - 2:23 pm 222. misanthropicus:

RE 215/Blarty Blarckleblart: [...] Humm, birth certificate the “blue dress” of 2009? Yep. They’ll have equal success in removing a president from office. [...]

You just don’t want to get it, Blarty – lying about the use of a Davidoff cigar is not that much, even if under oath, I agree.
Yet rising $700 million dollars in electoral funds under the false pretense that you are eligible for a certain position is big time swindling and should lead maestro Soetoro in a condo next door to Madoff.
Remember, Blarty, Al Capono was nailed for tax evasion not the other twelve feet stack of files on him murders.

Jul 28, 2009 - 2:36 pm 223. misanthropicus:

RE #220. frank grimes: RE 219.blarty: [...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

1) There you go, Frank!
Yet, for some mystery reasons, instead of accepting the obvious fact that simply there is no willingness to produce the paper in cause, some people are out there trying to enforce the notion that there are some evil dogs around that ate good mister Obama’s BC, school records, university records, lawyerly practice records, medical records, etc. etc.
Muriel, can you believe this? Ah, those stray dogs stop at nothing!

2) Thanks for pointing to The Proposition.

Jul 28, 2009 - 2:44 pm 224. Eddie MacIsaac:

His birth certificate is just a smoke screen…
the real issue is that BOTH of his alleged parents were not American citizens at the time of his birth in a manger in Hawaii;
By his own admission, he is not Constitutionally qualified for the office he holds;
The heads of many Dumbocretin big shots will roll for the Obamaton Conspiracy.

Jul 28, 2009 - 3:15 pm 225. dallasdan:

Obama and his handlers have absolute contempt for the American electorate. If even a casual observer did not understand this during the great election process fraud, he/she should have been shaken into a state of awareness when the financial and auto industries were nationalized, the national debt was made unsustainable, and a takeover of the national health care system was clearly intended to be force-fed to the voters.

The media is opening its eyes, but is far too arrogant to look into the mirror and admit that a fool’s image is there.

Obama and his Congressional co-conspirators will do serious harm to America, and the resulting pain will be multi-generational in its impact.

Jul 28, 2009 - 5:02 pm 226. Moho:

These may not be the best theories, or the most tenable, but they are the theories on the rise, and there is little reason to suspect we’ll see the last of them any time soon.

Yes, certainly Bob, since you recirculated them here. I mean, you do realize that by this rubric, no Hawaiian would ever be able to prove to the satisfaction of the toothless inbred hillbillies promoting the rumors you find “fascinating” that they were born in America–and by definition, they are all illegal aliens since they can’t prove that they’re not. Total racist stupidity.

Jul 28, 2009 - 6:36 pm 227. Marc Malone:

The problem is that it is not clear what constitutes proof of being a “Natural Born Citizen”. Do both parents really have to be citizens? What if you’re born on U.s. soil, but spent your whole childhood growing up in another country? Who has the authority to define the term? Who has the obligation to enforce the rule? Is it each State, or is it the FEC? Are there penalties for some Party declaring the legitimacy of a candidate, only to find they knowingly lied about it?

Jul 29, 2009 - 1:38 am 228. vivo:

212. frank grimes:

“17.vivo.”If President Obama is not a N.B.C., Joe Biden is next in line; then, Nancy Pelosi”

that terrifies you as much as it does the rest of us,admit it.”

I hope that you have a sense of humor, because that who laughs last, laughs better (El que ríe de último, ríe mejor).

Jul 29, 2009 - 3:44 am 229. Middleman:

You know perhaps you should give up on outing him as not being eligible to be president.
If by chance he truly wasn’t born in the US, then that means in this democracy society of ours, you had your butts kicks by a foreigner.
Trying to win by default is the b*tch way out.

Jul 29, 2009 - 6:42 am 230. Blarty Blarckleblart:

“The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.”

Exactly. The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is that Obama was born in Hawaii.

Jul 29, 2009 - 7:05 am 231. Blarty Blarckleblart:

221 miasnthropicus

Blarty, so you deny that Musick & Cie work for Obama in the Occidental College case?

Oh, what the hell. YES – I deny it.

Now prove me wrong.

Jul 29, 2009 - 7:07 am 232. misanthropicus:

RE: 231. Blarty Blarckleblart: RE 221 miasnthropicus:
[...] Blarty, so you deny that Musick & Cie work for Obama in the Occidental College case? [...] Oh, what the hell. YES – I deny it. [...] Now prove me wrong. [...]

“How The Franziskus Registration Page Lives & Wrecks Obama’s Presidency!”
Blarty, you don’t want to get it – I and any birther couldn’t care less about your or other trolls’ theories on this Obama matter, and any dialogue w/you or your ilk is essentially the act of a cat playing with a mouse.
Your presence here and elsewhere on the web is just an attempt at persuading people to abandon their views on this matter, and as we can see, you and your other Obamatrolls efforts are quite unsuccessful at this – and that’s bad news for you guys, because…

A sobering reminder – besides other things, the WND petition challenging Obama’s legitimacy gets signatures at brisk pace, end of August will reach half million, and if the process maintains its pace, by the end of Obama’s first year of presidency, we’ll have ONE MILLION PEOPLE ON RECORD CHALLENGING HIM.

Nuts? Heh – if you want so, fine.
Barry? Hardly a president anymore.

Blarty, remember the saying “… there isn’t such a thing like… kind of pregnant.”

Bye, bab’ – keep typing -

Jul 29, 2009 - 8:24 am 233. Moho:

Misanthropicus:

I don’t know about Blarty, but I find idiots really annoying. As is obvious from yesterday’s vote on the matter, there’s really no need to convince anyone of the reality of the “birth” of Obama. The people who believe it implicitly constitute a small crazy closet of an already marginalized raving paranoiac party. The idea is so insane that not even the normally insane individuals that lead the party will cop to it in public. It is as likely to affect anything as the rumor about Richard Gere and the gerbil…but have fun with it.

Jul 29, 2009 - 9:23 am 234. Blarty Blarckleblart:

232. misanthropicus:

Can’t prove me wrong, huh? Keep digging! The Truth Is Out There! I Want To Believe! &c.

Jul 29, 2009 - 10:02 am 235. Anonymous:

vivo:i guess if having one of two incompetent windbags who are the butt of jokes world wide (biden pelosi)running your country during a time of global peril is humerous to you,then giggle away.

personaly i’m not in the mood to chuckle much,worrying about my friends,loved ones and their many children.there is also the troubling matter of the ever increasing unemployment rate,(my state is higher than the national average)and the steady stream of families seeking emergancy shelter(we have tent cities sprouting up)

let me guess vivo..grammer and…..bush did it?

moho.it’s not the BC,obama is hiding damaging information that is going to surface sooner or later,”marginalizedparanoidrightwingnutter”lawsuits or not.

Jul 29, 2009 - 1:01 pm 236. frank grimes:

vivo:i guess if having one of two incompetent windbags who are the butt of jokes worldwide (biden pelosi)running your country during a time of global peril is humorous to you,then giggle away.

personaly i’m not in the mood to chuckle much,worrying about my friends,loved ones and their many children.there is also the troubling matter of the ever increasing unemployment rate,(my state is higher than the national average)and the steady stream of families seeking emergency shelter(we have tent cities sprouting up)

let me guess vivo..grammer and…..bush did it?

moho.it’s not the BC,obama is hiding damaging information that is going to surface sooner or later,”marginalizedparanoidrightwingnutter”lawsuits or not.

Jul 29, 2009 - 1:05 pm 237. misanthropicus:

RE # 233/ Moho & #232/ Blarty: [...] words, words, words [...]

Eppur si muove, and the Franziskus registration page will torment you forever!
Moho, Blarty, you professional losers, it’s you who are out frantically seeking to dissuade people about this matter, not I.
I’m mighty comfortable with the process of WND’s petition and other developments of this affair, and as I said, by January 20010, we’ll have about 1 million people (taxpayers & voters) on the record demanding from Obama proof of legitimacy – and that number will grow, and this affair will sooner or later explode.

So, I sleep well, I am content and the world is funny – it’s you who are a bunch of hysterical dolts who agonize about the looming reality of Barry being kicked out from the office and waste your time trolling the hyperspace trying to stop that.

As far as president Biden… well, I don’t think that the Democrat party will stand the outcome of this affair – it will explode in an array of quarrelsome and irrelevant grupuscules and no one will regret that.

Bye, bye – by the way, heard that Lyndon La Rouche is looking for a few good men to employ. You guys, you sure fit the intelligence standards of his followers.
Nice cause, edifying employer –
Good riddance -

Jul 29, 2009 - 2:34 pm 238. Realist:

Lookimg at the ‘libtards’ posting on here Mobo, Vivo, Blarty etc their whole answer to the question of Obambi’s legitimacy seems to be Obambi says it so it must be true and you are a CONSPIRACY NUT if you dont just roll over a let Obambi continue his deception. Never has the ‘libtard’ HYPOCRICY and reverse morality been exposed as much as it is on here. Look how the ‘libtards’ tore apart the private lives of Palin and Joe the Plumber and their FAMILIES but anyone who wants to know even the most basic thing about Obambi is a ‘tin foil hat wearer’. Face it ‘libtards’ your whole argument is pathetic in the extreme and makes you look like the blind Obambi worshiping fools you are.
Just ask yourself this simple question . Who is making a CONSPIRACY the ones who hide and withhold documents and information or those that simply ask for it to be released ? Reverse morality and illogical hypocrisy just wont work any more ‘libtards’.

Jul 30, 2009 - 12:32 am 239. JustADude:

My god don´t you guys see what´s going on ? This Birth Certificate thing is just a distraction. While we are sitting around ranting about it the DEMS are passing big buck bills (Health Care). When we wake up it will be too late. Lets close this and move to more important things.

Jul 30, 2009 - 7:00 am 240. Sandra:

Bush was called Hitler because no one could find the weapons of mass destruction. They wanted proof they were there even though dems in the beginning of the invasion said they were there as well.

People are asking where the birth certificate is because the guy who is the president handles the weapons of mass destruction for this country.

Jul 30, 2009 - 6:37 pm 241. Chuck Pelto:

TO: JustAFool
RE: Heh

My god don´t you guys see what´s going on ? This Birth Certificate thing is just a distraction. — JustAFool

You must be still before they teach Civics in grade school.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth....it will come out....]

Aug 1, 2009 - 9:03 am 242. Chuck Pelto:

TO: JustAFool
RE: Heh (Reprised)

My god don´t you guys see what´s going on ? This Birth Certificate thing is just a distraction. — JustAFool

You must be still before they teach Civics in grade school.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth....it will come out....]

Aug 1, 2009 - 9:06 am 243. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Testing

Testing!

Is this getting through?

I ask because the previous two missives failed to appear.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....and will it mean that Bob is afraid to hear from me?]

Aug 1, 2009 - 9:09 am 244. Anonymous:

TO: All
RE: Testing Reprised

Nope….

Bob isn’t afraid. PJM just has occasional ‘issues’ with posting of items.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Stay the patient course. Of little worth is your ire. The system was down. - Haiku Error Msg]

Aug 1, 2009 - 11:04 am 245. Anonymous:

P.S. Or….

….maybe they’ve changed the ‘moderation’ so that there is no proof you actually posted something and then, later, the moderators had not approved it for appearance.

Oh well….there is STILL screen capture…..

Aug 1, 2009 - 11:05 am 246. Linda:

The debate will never end and an original will not stop the conspiracy theories. One posters comments that his father was listed as African calling into question the validity of the certificate. Much of the information provided on birth and death certificates is provided by family members. Having done genealogy for years, I occasionally find errors. However, I have yet to find a state produce a certificate of birth or death that was false. Errors yes, birthplace incorrect, NO.

Aug 3, 2009 - 10:16 am