Pajamas Media

101 Comments

1. Realist:

This is the same damaged biased, hysterical, gullible, emotional MSM which by its inaction and disinterest allowed the BOGUS POTUS to get elected so what do you expect.

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:06 am 2. AThinkingPerson:

After yesterday we can add another one to their list to chat about and move the Muslim who killed the US SOLDIER down the list of importance yet again.

Why, an 80 yr-old sicko with a personal ax to grind is WAY more important than a converted Muslim, trained in Yemen who stands outside an army recruitment center in the heartland of America and kills one of America’s finest.

Yep, an 80 yr old white male will certainly take priority. Welcome to your new liberal reality.

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:07 am 3. Brenda Casey:

yeah its like they pay more attention to an abortion doctors murder than the murder of a soldier in a recruiting station —-media dumasses

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:10 am 4. Robert V:

As someone who leans left on certain issues, I also find the lack of response to Pvt Long’s murder very disturbing. President Obama should have givne the same level of response to both murders, since both were domestic acts of terrorism.

However, putting Christian in quotes when referring to Tiller’s murderer and not putting Muslim in quotes when reffering to Long’s murderer is dishonest and shows your bigotry.

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:14 am 5. Ed Wallis:

I don’t disagree wiht you, La Shawn, buuuuuuuuuuuut…

…I think it is erroneous/naive to think (as you write, “The lopsided media coverage….”) that the MSM CAN BE “balanced”. (We’ll leave “want” to be balanced out of this discussion!)

That tends to skew the whole picture, in my opinion. (it alsop gives them an “easy out”…)

The MSM is just another vehicle/tool of the American Left. Expect it to be so and criticize its actions/words from this basis.

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:23 am 6. Chris S:

By uncoerced nationally broadcasted confession and vividly clear definition, Long wasn’t simply murdered, it was a terrorist attack on America that would have continued had Carlos Bledshoe not been found.

Yet, if we examine Bledshoes overt treasonous act by comparing it to our ongoing mainstream media’s Socialist agenda, Bledshoe is rightfully considered a mere amateur in regards to crimes committed against our country.

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:25 am 7. David S:

There is not a double standard, despite continued protests from the fringe such as this.

The murder of Doctor Tiller was political terror, committed by a known activist from the Pro-life movement. Doctor Tiller himself was, as you say “notorious” – in other words, a public figure. His killing was an assassination. That’s a far cry from the essentially random violence against non-specific military recruiters. Tiller was living under threat – the recruiters not so much.

One act was, as Obama stated, heinous – attacking a well known advocate for women’s rights, a peaceful physician, who had been attacked before, at his church, with the specific intent of stopping his medical care for patients. The other was senseless – attacking military recruiters without a clear reason or a cause.

I understand it is fun to claim media bias in this type of situation – but our soldiers are dying every day in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military deaths at home are an extension of the same conflict. Doctor Tiller’s death is significantly more newsworthy, and rightly so.

The only double standard here is the presumption that all Muslims deserve to be tarred with the broad brush of terrorism, while Christians who engage in violence are qualified as “extremist”. Some consistency on this point would be welcome. If Long’s killer is a “follower of Allah”, isn’t Roeder a “follower of Christ”? References made in this article to Roeder’s religion are qualified, but Long’s religion is not accorded the same respect. Why the double standard?

Terrorism is no less real when it is perpetrated by the right wing at home. Make no mistake – both acts of violence are the result of fundamentalist religious extremism, perpetrated by followers of a jealous “God”. Whether they carry a cross or a crescent matters not to the victims.

Peace.

DS

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:32 am 8. Fragmentarian:

Repeat after me. 2+2=5. The sooner you learn this truth, the happier you’ll be.

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:33 am 9. Free Hat:

David S: “There is not a double standard, despite continued protests from the fringe such as this.

The murder of Doctor Tiller was political terror, committed by a known activist from the Pro-life movement. Doctor Tiller himself was, as you say “notorious” – in other words, a public figure. His killing was an assassination. That’s a far cry from the essentially random violence against non-specific military recruiters. Tiller was living under threat – the recruiters not so much.

One act was, as Obama stated, heinous – attacking a well known advocate for women’s rights, a peaceful physician, who had been attacked before, at his church, with the specific intent of stopping his medical care for patients. The other was senseless – attacking military recruiters without a clear reason or a cause.

I understand it is fun to claim media bias in this type of situation – but our soldiers are dying every day in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military deaths at home are an extension of the same conflict. Doctor Tiller’s death is significantly more newsworthy, and rightly so.

The only double standard here is the presumption that all Muslims deserve to be tarred with the broad brush of terrorism, while Christians who engage in violence are qualified as “extremist”. Some consistency on this point would be welcome. If Long’s killer is a “follower of Allah”, isn’t Roeder a “follower of Christ”? References made in this article to Roeder’s religion are qualified, but Long’s religion is not accorded the same respect. Why the double standard?

Terrorism is no less real when it is perpetrated by the right wing at home. Make no mistake – both acts of violence are the result of fundamentalist religious extremism, perpetrated by followers of a jealous “God”. Whether they carry a cross or a crescent matters not to the victims.”

Spot on. A lone angry Muslim kills a soldier, and the right takes that as proof of an organized global Muslim jihad in America. A string of lone angry Christians kill several in the past few months, including cops, a state Democratic party leader, innocent churchgoers, a Holocaust Museum security guard, and one specific abortion doctor that the right-wing has been targeting for death for years, and the right says: “Oh, [insert killer's name here] is not a real,/i> Christian/Conservative, because a real Christian/Conservativewould never do that … this was just one lone nut with no connection to a broader violent right-wing Christian militant movement, and also … hey, look over there it’s a scary Muslim!”

So here’s my question: how many “lone” Christian conservative nuts are going to shoot and kill innocent people before a grownup on the right-wing steps up, acknowledges the problem, and makes it clear that this mindless violence will not be tolerated anymore?

Don’t you folks ever feel ashamed that after all your howling of indignation over the Right-wing extremism memo, and after all of your furious calls for Janet Napolitan’s resignation, you now have to admit that she was right, that the right wing has a serious escalating problem with resorting to murder and gun violence because they just don’t like how the Democratic process is working out for them?

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:07 am 10. davimcg:

To Robert V., Putting quotes around “Christian” in reference to Roeder is absolutely appropriate. No where in Christian scriptures is the murder of anyone in the furtherance of Chistianity taught or allowed. In fact, it is forbidden. Please, read the New Testament in its entirety and see for yourself. However, the Koran does allow for the killing of infidels. Thus, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad murder of Pvt. William A. Long and wounding of Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula is sanctioned by the Koran. Read Sura 9. Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad is a true practitioner of his religion.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:18 am 11. blotto:

DavidS: You indeed do make a living out of twisting the truth or lying in order to make you points.
1. You said: “The other was senseless – attacking military recruiters without a clear reason or a cause.” As is the case since I started reading PJ, you are clearly wrong.

APLITTLE ROCK, Ark. – A Muslim convert charged with fatally shooting an American soldier at a military recruiting center said Tuesday that he doesn’t consider the killing a murder because U.S. military action in the Middle East made the killing justified.

“I do feel I’m not guilty,” Abdulhakim Muhammad told The Associated Press in a collect call from the Pulaski County jail. “I don’t think it was murder, because murder is when a person kills another person without justified reason.”

Muhammad told the AP he admitted to his actions to police and said he was retaliating against the U.S. military.

“Yes, I did tell the police upon my arrest that this was an act of retaliation, and not a reaction on the soldiers personally,” Muhammad said. He called it “a act, for the sake of God, for the sake of Allah, the Lord of all the world, and also a retaliation on U.S. military.”

2. You said: “Military deaths at home are an extension of the same conflict. ” Really??? So terrorism is here? Wow, I thought you lefties said there was no war–on terrorism.

3. You said: “The only double standard here is the presumption that all Muslims deserve to be tarred with the broad brush of terrorism, while Christians who engage in violence are qualified as “extremist”. Some consistency on this point would be welcome. If Long’s killer is a “follower of Allah”, isn’t Roeder a “follower of Christ”? ”
Well that is the crux of the left’s anti-christian sentiment isn’t it. You desparately want to equate one religion to the other when it suits you. Talk about being “…tarred with the broad brush…” Yet you will not admit that Islam is the religion of terroism that killed 3,000 innocent Americans on 911.

4. You said: “Terrorism is no less real when it is perpetrated by the right wing at home.”
OMG terrorism is perpetrated by the left. Don’t you get it. The RIGHT wants limited government. The left wants total government. Fascism, socialism, religious autocracy (theocracy), nazism are all tenents and political ideals of the left. Total control by the government and no or limited freedoms of the individual and business. Who have been most of our domestic terrorists? 19 Saudi terrorists, ELF, SDS, Weather Underground, Weathermen, Black Panthers, KKK, animinal rights groups, etc. All leftist terrorist organizations. And yes the KKK was dominated by Dems in the beginning and during most of its reign of terror. Cite us any first hand reference that labels any “right” wing group as a terror group. With the possible exception of some abortion groups, there are none. And are they really “right” wing or just wing-nuts? They have nothing in common with us on the right, and we despise their existence, but the media puts them there to hurt our cause.

I cannot tell if you deliberately post here to incite or if you REALLY do believe what you print. Either way, you frighten me. And to think you are probably just a pawn and a dolt (according to Ms.Sotomayor) for the left. America is truly in trouble.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:25 am 12. Harper:

to #4 Robert V

The quotes around Christian make sense because, as La Shawn and others report, numerous Christian groups condemned the man’s act–effectively disowning him.

When we have reports of some Muslim groups publicly condemning the acts of Mr. Abdulhakim M. M., then it would seem appropriate to put Muslim in quotes.

Not bigotry, just a reflection of the responses of the communities themselves.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:26 am 13. megapotamus:

I have to give the jihadi a passing nod here, at least this was a military target as opposed to the jew babies and grannies that jihad traditionally targets. Of course these men were unarmed. The big lesson is that the battlefield, as sources as divergent as Osama Bin Laden and George W Bush have been telling you, extends up to your front porch whether you know it or not. This is why the jihad in Arkansas is a greater concern than the Tiller killing objectively. But the press is expressly UNobjective, like Sonia Sotomayor they see all events through the racist prism of affirmative action. Regardless of the merits, certain children are more equal than others. The good news is that the jihadis are relentless educators. Even Obama has been educated sufficiently by events that he is no longer stupid enough to conduct foreign policy in the manner he promised during the primaries and election. If only the Obies could be so wise. But jihad at home makes foreign policy domestic policy. It is Obama’s policy to ignore domestic and global jihad equally. The squealing about the murder of the murdering doctor is simply kneejerk. Abortion is the greatest sacrament in the quasi religion of geno-suicide that is the modern political Left. Likewise the moronic attacks on Sarah Palin; she declined to kill her little retarded baby. This is unforgiveable.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:38 am 14. straightman:

ah, so cute… pjm is still publishing la shawn, my favorite bigot.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:47 am 15. JAL:

Robert V — Did Tiller’s killer attend services regularly — or even semi-regularly — in any recognized Christian group (i.e. not a group like Fred Phelps’ family ‘church.’)

Did the killer of Miller attend mosque regularly?

As davimcg points out — murder for Christians is not part of the message. Killing infidels and other enemies of Allah is part of the message and is acceptable in many parts of the Muslim world.

As with Christianity there are different emphases placed by different sects within Islam (like it or not for some) so there are variations in interpretation even for Muslims, but the fact is, it is there. We have seen numerous times in the last 30+ years in our recent history radical Islamists — not just isolated, marginalized loners — fulfilling what they are taught is holy.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:49 am 16. G Alston:

#9 — …after all of your furious calls for Janet Napolitan’s resignation, you now have to admit that she was right… [snip]

That one’s going to leave a mark.

Perhaps the response of the media and the government is because islamic converts doing horrible things is sad but expected whereas generally we tell ourselves that these aren’t behaviours to expect from white christians.

#10 — No where in Christian scriptures is the murder of anyone in the furtherance of Chistianity taught or allowed.

The crusades were purely imaginary, as was the inquisition and the practices of witch burning and lynching. Check.

Maybe these *are* the behaviours of white christians but they’ve been suppressed.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:52 am 17. furious_a:

Pres. Obama is failing at the simple task of Commander in Chief — his own and his Administration’s lack of demonstrated concern for the two soldiers in Arkansas sends the message to the troops that their C-in-C doesn’t really have their backs. That his sincere shock and outrage are reserved for a late-term aborotionist, rather
than for the men and women who guard his family while they sleep.

And “lone angry Muslim terrorist”? Like the “lone” terrorist who shot up the El Al counter in LA? Like the “lone” terrorist who crossed the Canadian border with explosives? Like the “lone” Albanian terrorists who plotted to attack Fort Dix (just like Obama’s friend Bill Ayers did in the ’70s)? Like the “lone” terrorist John Allan Muhammad who terrorized the DC-area? Like the “lone” terrorist who fragged his own comrades in Kuwait? Like “lone” Jose Padilla who scouted Chicage for a dirty bomb attack? Like the “lone” terrorists who mounted the first the World Trade Center attack? Like the “lone” terrorists who plotted to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge and the Lincoln Tunnel? Like the “lone” ‘Lackawanna Six’ terrorists interdicted before they could strike?

That’s a lotta lonely Muslim terrorists — no wonder they yearn for all those virgins in Paradise.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:53 am 18. Vader:

The white supremacist that killed the Holocaust Memorial guard was *not* a Christian in any sense. He had previously condemned Christianity online as an outgrowth of Judaism.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:54 am 19. G Alston:

#13 — Abortion is the greatest sacrament in the quasi religion of geno-suicide that is the modern political Left.

Absolute nonsense. I don’t like socialism any more than you do, but you’re never going to defeat the socialists with this sort of reasoning.

Jun 11, 2009 - 7:55 am 20. Mary Madigan:

how many “lone” Christian conservative nuts are going to shoot and kill innocent people before a grownup on the right-wing steps up, acknowledges the problem, and makes it clear that this mindless violence will not be tolerated anymore?

A short list of recent, ‘lone’ politically-linked murders.

* Jim D. Adkisson murdered two church members in a liberal Unitarian Universalist Church in Tennessee on July 27, 2008. “It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that, and his stated hatred for the liberal movement.”

* Richard Poplawski gunned down three Pittsburgh police officers on April 4, 2009. Poplawski, a white supremacist, was a member of the ‘Stormfront’ community who believed that Jews control America. He also believed that the government is going to take away his guns.

* Joshua Cartwright killed two sheriff’s deputies in Florida on April 25, 2009. Cartwright’s wife said her husband “believed that the US Government was conspiring against him. She said he had been severely disturbed that Barack Obama had been elected President.”

* Scott Roeder, freeper, member of the “Sovereign Citizen Movement”, contributor to “Prayer and Action News” (a magazine promoting the idea that killing doctors who perform abortions is “justifiable homicide.”) killed abortion provider George Tiller in his church May 31, 2009.

* Muslim convert Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, Islamist zealot recruited and trained by Saudi-sponsored Wahhabists in our prison system murdered Pvt. William A. Long and wounded Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula.

* James W. von Brunn, a white supremacist, 9/11 truther, Obama birth-certificate nutter, Ron Paul supporter and freeper shot a security guard at the Holocaust Museum

“Lone” Islamists like Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad are part of a larger, political organization that has been at war with the United States (and with most of the world) for decades. This organization is a known quantity. We know who the leaders are (Saudi Arabia, the Muslim Brotherhood, Pakistani Intelligence, Iran, Syria). We know where the foot soldiers are trained (camps in the US, Afghanistan, Pakistan). We know who their ideological representatives are in the US (CAIR, MAS, etc).

“Lone” activists like von Brunn, the groups that support, fund and ideologically encourage them are currently under investigation, and under more scrutiny because we do NOT know as much about them. Because this is a new trend, it’s getting more attention.

The Republicans were formerly known for their condemnation of terror. People who contribute to online sources like Free Republic should be keeping a sharp watch out for nutters like von Brunn, and they should be demanding government (and media) investigations, not condemning them. Responding to these criminal acts with moral equivalency arguments and obvious distraction techniques will not help the GOP win any elections.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:01 am 21. blotto:

Freehat: Cite any first hand reference to back up your claim that Tiller’s killer and also the Holocaust killer were right wing?

And likewise when will some lefty stand up to Islamic jihad and, “…acknowledges the problem, and makes it clear that this mindless violence will not be tolerated anymore?”

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:05 am 22. Mwalimu Daudi:

One lone crazy gunman kills an abortion doctor, and the Left sees Christianist conspiracies under every bed (”Never let a crisis go to waste”, eh?). An Islamic terrorist kills yet another American soldier in the name of “Allah” – how many thousands is that now? – and the Left averts its eyes, since it does not fit the Narrative.

BTW: It turn out that Holocaust Museum shooter von Brunn was a 9/11 Truther who hated neo-cons, Bush, McCain, and Bill O’Reilly. I eagerly await denunciations by “David S” and “Free Hat” of the Left which created the climate of hate that allowed von Brunn to kill so freely.

I am glad to see La Shawn posting here. I am a long-time fan of hers.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:22 am 23. Al Fontaine:

Says David S, above ( # 07 ):

“(…) – attacking a well known advocate for women’s rights, a peaceful physician, who had been attacked before, at his church, with the specific intent of stopping his medical care for patients. (…)”

And then I reply:

“peaceful physician”? “medical care for patients”?

And since when beheading, dismembering a baby is peaceful ? And how dare you, David S, call it medical care ? Hippocrates is turning wildly in his grave

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath).

Are you, David S, such an idiot that you have to see and smell the beheading or dismemberment of a baby to realize that, after all, IT “is an abhorrent act of violence”?

Quo vadis America ?

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:24 am 24. BettyBlue:

Von Brunn hated Christians, Jews, blacks and anyone else who wasn’t a white Aryan male. He was also something of a socialist. http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35192

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:30 am 25. Carol MN:

Says #10: The crusades were purely imaginary, as was the inquisition and the practices of witch burning and lynching. Check.

But #10, these are NOT IN Christian SCRIPTURE as Davimcg stated. Quite the opposite is in SCRIPTURE. Can people interpret scripture wrongly? Sure. But that doesn’t make their interpretation correct nor Christian. However in Islam, the Koran DOES preach and command violence against nonbelievers.
You could almost name the (so-called) Christian violence anti-gov’t violence as that almost seems to be the common thread.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:32 am 26. blotto:

Ms. Madigan:

“Responding to these criminal acts with moral equivalency arguments and obvious distraction techniques will not help the GOP win any elections.”
I know of no conservative that talks of “moral equivalency.” That is a construct of the left. Look at the comments here. None of the conservative posters are defending either the Tiller killer or Von Brunn. It is the left who seeks to find moral equivalence in these acts to impugn and disparage conservatives.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:33 am 27. SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET):

@David S and Free Hat:

How many more attacks by muslim extremists (who have world-wide support) will it take before you understand that they want us all dead. Liberal tools are not exempt, by the way.

There are Soldiers–people far better than you–fighting in the Middle East against Islamofascists who planned and carried out the slaughter of almost 3000 people on this soil, and all you can do is pop up on a website to add your nihilist two cents. We get it.

Thanks for proving La Shawn’s point about the Left’s selective outrage.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:43 am 28. J. Rockford:

The U.S.A. is self-destructing.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:49 am 29. joe buzz:

According the the leftists White = Christian.
Project much?

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:52 am 30. BettyBlue:

Blotto, yes, I really don’t know of any conservative who talks about “moral equivalency” either. I also don’t know any who are members of white racist societies, thinks Christianity was a plot concocted by St. Paul to rob the Romans of their “pagan virility” and that the Holocause was a hoax.

All the moral equivalence talk appears to be coming from the Left. Whether they’re doing to win elections, or sway public opinion, I don’t know. I don’t consider myself Republican, so I honestly don’t care if they win elections or not. They seem to be nothing more than Democrats-lite these days.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:56 am 31. BettyBlue:

As for abortion. . . my sweet, extremely liberal, kind-hearted atheist mother-in-law is dead set against it. Does this make her an extremist? A terrorist?

Here in America, I thought we were supposed to have freedom of belief.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:59 am 32. Mary Madigan:

Sorry about this error – I linked Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad to the American prison system, which was a mistake. AMM was recruited by Wahhabists in Yemen. The (fortunately failed) Riverdale synagogue bombers were recruited by Saudi trained Imams in our prison system.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:00 am 33. TomF:

Al Fontaine, I concur. I have heard much about the doctor and his care for his patients. What concerns me is that about 50 percent of his patients didn’t make it out alive under his care.

By the way, a recruitment center is not a legitimate military target. The killing of two soldiers achieved no military objective. It is an act of vengeance. Likewise, the killing of Tiller was an act of vengeance. Neither justifiable and both to be condemned.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:01 am 34. David S:

11. blotto:

“DavidS: You indeed do make a living out of twisting the truth or lying in order to make you points.”

No, I make a hobby out of illuminating the facts that put the lie to GOP spin.

Your own citation clearly indicates that the Muslim convert did not target the soldiers personally – there was no reason that these particular soldiers were attacked. They were anonymous representatives of the “U.S. military” – unlike Dr. Tiller, who was very specifically targeted for years by right wing organizations.

The “war on terrorism” is a stupid idea. You can’t succeed in a war on terror any more than you can a war on drugs or a war on poverty. War is the wrong method for coping with these problems. Terrorism is not a military organization or a sovereign nation, it is a means of politics based on violence, and perpetrated by extreme elements (typically of a very conservative, religious nature).

I would like to see a fair portrayal of the impact of both Christianity and Islam on political violence. Constantly pretending that Islam is a terrorist religion, while Christianity leads only to shining happy people is ludicrous. There is a minority within each religion that is willing to perpetrate violence for political purposes. One cannot be excused by the other. If Islam is guilty for condoning the acts of Muslim terrorists, then Christianity must accept guilt for condoning the acts of Christian terrorists. Yes, there is public outcry against terror from both religions – but there is also public acceptance and approval as well.

“OMG terrorism is perpetrated by the left. Don’t you get it.”

Sure, I get it. You want me to believe that the religious violence of Christians and Muslims is somehow a “liberal conspiracy”. Sorry, but that’s BS. Violent terrorism is a specialty of conservatives.

I don’t see any logic in calling neo-Nazis, anti-abortion activists, white supremacists, immigration opponents and homophobes left wing. All the major terror attacks in the USA are by conservative elements. Libertarians can claim not to be affiliated – but the GOP is neck deep in this. I really do believe what I am writing – and I am not being compensated, I do this for the love of country.

I truly think the rise in violence from the extreme religious right is something that the GOP needs to take more seriously. Politically, it is a boon for the Democrats when the Republicans don’t condemn domestic terror, but it speaks very poorly of our country that so many feel free to applaud these vigilantes. Whether Muslim or Christian, violence for the sake of one’s religious beliefs is a very dangerous problem that unfortunately has always been with us.

Peace.

DS

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:02 am 35. gs:

sigh I started composing a response, but why bother?

I no longer waste my time pleading with people on whose watch this center-right nation switched to a leftist government.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:02 am 36. Free Hat:

11. blotto: “OMG terrorism is perpetrated by the left. Don’t you get it. The RIGHT wants limited government. The left wants total government. Fascism, socialism, religious autocracy (theocracy), nazism are all tenents and political ideals of the left. Total control by the government and no or limited freedoms of the individual and business. Who have been most of our domestic terrorists? 19 Saudi terrorists, ELF, SDS, Weather Underground, Weathermen, Black Panthers, KKK, animinal rights groups, etc. All leftist terrorist organizations.”

You have these grand unified theories of how Right=good, Left=bad that literally make no sense. You’re no different from the sheep in Animal Farm constantly bleating “Four legs good! Two legs bad!”, without even stopping to think about the implications and inconsistencies of your argument.

When you actually take the time to think about it, most of the crap you’re spewing makes absolutely no sense. You haven’t offered any proof that the right wing only supports small government; nor have you offered any credible evidence that the Left is any more or less “fascist” than the Right; you’ve just come up with a dopey little theory that goes something like this:

“The modern American Conservative movement believes that small government is the only way to run effective government. Conservative and Liberals are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. Therefore, if American Conservatives are for small government, the American Liberals must be for large government. Only large government can be oppressive and totalitarian. Only Liberals support a large government. Therefore, only Liberals can be oppressive and totalitarian.”

Now let me break down for you why your argument is completely absurd.

According to your rationale, all right wing movements are “limited government” movements. Which is crap. Just because the modern American variety of Conservative thought happens to advocate limited government, that does not mean that all right wing movements throughout history have advocated limited government. You’re basically taken one specific and arbitrary set of ideals, that of American Conservative limited government, which has never actually existed in the first place except as an ideal, and using it as a litmus test to judge whether any political theories/movements throughout time are Leftist or Rightist.

And why is this stupid? Let me show you:

In 200 years, my great grandson, Free Hat III will start a radical Left wing socio/political movement that is both socially and fiscally liberal and based on the ideals of Christ and Ghandi that government ought never to willfully undertake any action that could end a human life. This means no abortions, no executions, and no human soldiers will enter into battle – we will use a completely robotic military fighting force. He will call this movement the Life Party, and within 20 years, it will be a major political party in the United States. During his first campaign speech for the Presidency, Free Hat III will make the following argument to justify his party: “The Life Party believes in protecting all life at all cost. My opponents on the Right are not part of the Life Party, and therefore must naturally be opposed to the protection of all life at all costs. Only those who are part of the Life Party are for the protection of life at all costs, therefore logically, since only my party is for the protection of life, the Right Wing must therefore be opposed to life.”

He will continue: “Since the Life Party is Liberal, and since the Right Wing has historically strongly advocated the right to own assault rifles and has strongly advocated the death penalty, it must follow that if a party/movement advocates death in any cicrumstance, it cannot by definition be pro-life, and therefore cannot by definition be Liberal. If only the Life Party, and by extension the Left wing, is pro-life, then this means that all previous socio/political movements that don’t share the Life Party’s exact set of ideals, must oppose life. This logically concludes that all anti-life governments throughout history, such as the Nazis, Socialists, Fascists, Communists, as well as Totalitarian Theocracies, must have been Conservative/Right wing, because if they had protected life at all costs, then by definition they would be Liberal as we are.

Do you understand what’s so horribly wrong here? I’m using a future definition of a political movement as a litmus test to illegitimately categorize present-day political movements, just like you’re using a present-day definition of the right-wing movement to illegitimately categorize all previous political movements throughout history.

A real student of history understands that the ideals of political parties and movements are fickle and change constantly, and therefore cannot be used as litmus tests to categorize all movements that have come before. In 100 years, the Conservative movement may no longer have “limited government” as one of its central tenets, and at that point, you’re entire argument will be rubbish. Which makes it rubbish today.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:08 am 37. G Alston:

#25 — However in Islam, the Koran DOES preach and command violence against nonbelievers.

Not quite. Fellow abrahamic believers are to be tolerated. Plus, it depends what quotes one wishes to buy into (much like the bible.) In the early days mohammed sought to unify abrahamic sects and prayer was directed at Jerusalem. It was only after rejection that prayer was to be directed elsewhere.

And so on.

In the bible god was intolerant and evolved tolerance (here and there) as time went along. In the koran it’s more like the opposite.

#25 — Can people interpret scripture wrongly? Sure.

The point is that people interpret what they like (just as you did above) and use this as justification for their belief.

#26 — It is the left who seeks to find moral equivalence in these acts to impugn and disparage conservatives.

It’s an evil plot. Yeah… that makes sense.

If we are going to take the democrats down, it might help if we could concentrate on what they’re really doing and not waste bandwidth on imaginary plots.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:11 am 38. Mary Madigan:

I know of no conservative that talks of “moral equivalency.”

Then you don’t know the conservative pro-life activists who were promoting the idea that killing doctors who perform abortions is “justifiable homicide.” I talked to quite a few of them.

In any case, this is a question of priorities. Why aren’t conservatives demanding that the government and the media investigate and crack down on organizations like the Sovereign Citizen Movement, Operation Rescue and Prayer and Action?

After 9/11, Muslim ‘activist’ groups complained more about America and the media’s “bias” against Islam than they did about bin Lade. The first priority of these special interest groups was to cry about media bias. They didn’t pour into the streets to protest against bin Laden, they didn’t demand that the FBI should investigate extremist centers in Muslim communities.

These Muslim groups were condemned for this reaction, for good reason.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:12 am 39. AVERAGE JOE:

Why are people so upset about this? You all act like this is something new, or like this type of media coverage is not occuring everyday!
Well time to wake up, if you truely feel this is new then you are so far out of touch that I don’t think there is any help for you. The truth is that the media ie.. the government controls everything you read in newspapers, or see on tv or any other advertising you can possibly think about. If you want the truth s you better be there to see it for yourself. The government will never let us know the truth unless it serves their purpose.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:14 am 40. Peter the Bubblehead:

20. Mary Madigan wrote:
A short list of recent, ‘lone’ politically-linked murders.

Peter asks: And where in your entire list is there any evidence any of these people were officially associated with any ‘right-wing’ movements?

However, on the left-wing side, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad is more than happy to proclaim to anyone who will listen where his alligence lies.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:15 am 41. Peter the Bubblehead:

Free(base) hat:
The Holocaut Museum killer’s own writings proclaim him a member of the left-wing.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-722-Conservative-Politics-Examiner~y2009m6d10-Holocaust-Museum-shooter-von-Brunn-a-911-truther-who-hated-neocons-Bush-McCain

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:17 am 42. G Alston:

#34 — I don’t see any logic in calling neo-Nazis, anti-abortion activists, white supremacists, immigration opponents and homophobes left wing.

There is none. Current era left wing political violence is generally related to extremists sympathetic to PETA or Greenpeace. But I do have a partial answer.

It seems to me that the charges of left wing extremism are temporally displaced, much like the culture war. Think about it: “The pill” was the advent of the sexual revolution and so on which also gave us abortion and the culture warriors are still vainly fighting some 35 years after their war was lost and their cause was tossed to the side. During that same time frame when the war was fresh there *was* a lot of violence that was leftist oriented, e.g. the Weather Undergound, SLA, etc.

The problem is that these things no longer exist and were largely rejected by most of the left well before 1980, which then gave rise to more peaceful protests against ‘da man’ like Greenpeace and PETA.

It’s temporal displacement.

As much as I don’t like what the left is about, inventing things to charge them with seems to be a stupid strategy.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:26 am 43. Ms. Attitude:

“The spread of Islam was military. There is a tendency to apologize for this and we should not. It is one of the injunctions of the Quran that you must fight to spread Islam.”
Dr. Ali Issa Othman, Islamic Scholar

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:28 am 44. G Alston:

#38 — The truth is that the media ie.. the government controls everything you read in newspapers, or see on tv or any other advertising you can possibly think about.

Common absurd lie #873.

There has been an uptick in anti-abortion sentiment as of late due to a great deal of media coverage of right wingers claiming that later term abortions are both frequent and unregulated. This of course isn’t true, yet the media covers this just the same as they do everything else. It helps shape anti-abortion sentiment at the same level that it helps shape pro-choice sentiment.

Are many in the media democrats? Sure. But does this sway what’s reported as much as has been claimed? No. The gal who reports on the dog show on tuesday is reporting on an abortion issue on friday. She’s an expert in neither. And this isn’t due to laziness; it’s due to there being too much information.

Will you people stop reading conspiracy into EVERYTHING? How are you supposed to put a stop to the truly bad stuff if you imagine that everything is bad?

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:33 am 45. Ms. Attitude:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

You want your list of Islam terrorism….go look…and if you can find me one with the Christian terrorism listed.

You see, Christian organizations go into poor countries and build schools and hospitals. Christian doctors provide free medical care. Islam brings terror.

It’s your choice as to which one you want to side with.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:35 am 46. Mary Madigan:

And where in your entire list is there any evidence any of these people were officially associated with any ‘right-wing’ movements?

Our knowledge about these groups and these connections is incomplete. We need to learn more about them.

Do you think the government should have a no-holds barred investigation into these murderers and these groups? Would you be happy to see journalists conducting an undercover investigation of Operation Rescue?

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:38 am 47. BettyBlue:

And here’s one Conservative who spoke out against Tiller’s murder: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/01/sarah-palin-tiller-murder_n_209896.html

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:43 am 48. Free Hat:

41. Peter the Bubblehead: “Free(base) hat: The Holocaut Museum killer’s own writings proclaim him a member of the left-wing.”

Big ****ing deal. I hated Clinton and Carter. Does that make me a right-winger? Of course not. Nor does this article prove that the Holocaust Museum killer was “left-wing”. It just supports the general consensus that he was a violent lunatic who hated everybody, including Bush.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:45 am 49. BettyBlue:

And anti-abortion groups have denounced the attack: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124398690567579389.html

Thing is, they’re getting about as much air time as poor old Pvt. Long.

Roeder had a history of mental problems; von Brunn was a Nazi, who would have felt right at home in Nazi Germany. I don’t think Conservatives can dissassociate from them, because they weren’t responsible for them in the first place.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:47 am 50. BettyBlue:

And Moslem groups still aren’t complaining about pvt. Long’s murder, at least since I last checked.

Jun 11, 2009 - 9:48 am 51. Fragmentarian:

The young soldier who was aborted by jihad, fell for his country in the war on terror and deserved more from his C.I.C. than did Tiller.

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:06 am 52. G Alston:

#38 — Then you don’t know the conservative pro-life activists who were promoting the idea that killing doctors who perform abortions is “justifiable homicide.” I talked to quite a few of them.

The poster you are talking to is dissembling. There were threads here last week re Tiller’s murder where poster after poster joined the chorus of ’so he murdered a murderer, big deal.’

#48 — Nor does this article prove that the Holocaust Museum killer was “left-wing”.

Many of the true conservatives here profess dislike of Bush because he was a RINO. Not right wing enough. Sounds to me like that was the same beef as VonBrunn, who sounds more like one of theirs than one of the left’s.

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:07 am 53. DBMilford:

One hundred years from now people will laugh at our stupidity. Lashawn and other bottom-of-the bottle faith finders will long be forgotten.

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:09 am 54. Self-hating Boomer:

The murder of Doctor Tiller was political terror, committed by a known activist from the Pro-life movement

Horseshit. Terrorism is the intentional killing of the maximum number of random civilians as possible. No abortion killer has ever committed an act of terrorism; the only way to do that would be to execute an attack on a clinic;

1. during business hours,
2. with no warning, and
3. with intent to kill as many people as possible.

Words have meanings, dolt. This was murder, it was an assassination, but it was NOT terrorism.

The killing of Long does, however, fit the definition of terrorism. It was done in broad daylight, it was against randomly selected targets, it was against more than one target, and it was done without any warning.

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:27 am 55. Peter the Bubblehead:

46. Mary Madigan wrote:
And where in your entire list is there any evidence any of these people were officially associated with any ‘right-wing’ movements?

Our knowledge about these groups and these connections is incomplete. We need to learn more about them.

Peter writes: So you are admitting, then, that you are making up assumptions. Thank you for admitting such.

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:43 am 56. Peter the Bubblehead:

52. G Alston wrote:
Many of the true conservatives here profess dislike of Bush because he was a RINO. Not right wing enough. Sounds to me like that was the same beef as VonBrunn, who sounds more like one of theirs than one of the left’s.

Peter writes: Try reading the guy’s own writing. He’s a self-admitted leftist.

I won’t bother putting the link here again, it’s already been posted several times.

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:46 am 57. Mary Madigan:

So you are admitting, then, that you are making up assumptions.

What assumptions are you assuming I’m making up? Can you provide a list, quoted from my comments here?

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:06 am 58. momof3:

“Then you don’t know the conservative pro-life activists who were promoting the idea that killing doctors who perform abortions is “justifiable homicide.” I talked to quite a few of them.”

Chalk me up as one. There is evil in this world that needs to be eradicated-not understood or condoned. Murdering babies is one of those evils. I actually tend more libertarian than conservative, but your rights end where another’s begin and there is no right to kill your child.

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:11 am 59. Free Hat:

54. Self-hating Boomer: “Horseshit. Terrorism is the intentional killing of the maximum number of random civilians as possible.”

You’re moron. That’s not the definition of terrorism. You don’t just get to make *** up. Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion. There’s no mention of killing a maximum number of random civilians.

Systematically targeting abortion doctors with acts of violence in order to frighten and intimidate them into not performing a legal service is terrorism.

Oh, wait, I see, it can’t be terrorism because a right-winger did it.

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:16 am 60. Mwalimu Daudi:

So now the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy includes hating Bush, McCain, neocons, O’Reilly and The Weekly Standard as well as promoting 9/11 Trutherism. Wow. Who wudda thunk it? All those time-honored lefty positions, and secretly it is really all a sinister right-wing plot. The one about Bush-bashing being an example of right-wing hate surprises me – is the Left about to embrace Bush as one of their own?

Durn clever, those right-wing Christianist tax-cutting homophobic global warming-denying racist anti-choice Jew-luvin’ G*d-and-guns-clinging neocons.

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:21 am 61. Conservative Mom:

David S:

“The murder of Doctor Tiller was political terror, committed by a known activist from the Pro-life movement. Doctor Tiller himself was, as you say “notorious” – in other words, a public figure. His killing was an assassination. That’s a far cry from the essentially random violence against non-specific military recruiters.”

They are not the same.

“Make no mistake – both acts of violence are the result of fundamentalist religious extremism, perpetrated by followers of a jealous “God”. Whether they carry a cross or a crescent matters not to the victims.”

They are the same.

Make up your deluded mind. The countries that are predominantly Muslim have no human rights for women and gays and you are okay with that? Where is the peaceful religion. The countries that are predominantly Christian have gone way overboard on human rights. All the major players in Islam have stated that their intent is to turn the whole world muslim, one way or the other. What christian says that.

You will make up your deluded mind when the US becomes muslim through shear numbers, like France, England it will just take a little longer….

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:42 am 62. Michael:

Free Hat et al

I am sure you are having fun but you really aren’t having any effect here. Most of your arguments are as baseless as you claim others to have. To claim that all people who don’t agree with you are dolts is just selfserving and frankly riduculous. But it is good for a laugh.

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:52 am 63. BettyBlue:

Well, yes, Peter, she is making assumptions. Basically, she’s saying, “We really don’t anything about these groups, but we must investigate them, to find out if they’re up to something—not that we have any evidence that they’re up to something, but they should be investigated, just in case they ARE up to something!”

Heh.

And, of course, I’m not sure what such a “no holds barred” investigation would involve. Would it involve actual evidence, or would it just be a case of going after anyone who’d ever attended a tea party, been in the military, or was known to be pro-life?

Jun 11, 2009 - 12:23 pm 64. blotto:

Freehat: Uhhh!! So right is wrong and left is right, good is bad, blah, blah, blah. That Orwellian diatribe you wrote in response #36 was just that,….Orwellian. It is difficult to attempt a cogent debate with someone who changes the rules mid-debate. That does in fact serve your purposes, but defeats the idea of debate.
Your response would have been “more better” had you dissembled leftist organizations, ideals, politics, programs, and pograms, but you cannot without revealing the many lies where your “current” political logic stem.

Jun 11, 2009 - 12:47 pm 65. David S:

@61. Conservative Mom:

“They are not the same.”

It is true there is a difference between a political assassination and random attacks on military personnel.

“They are the same.”

The acts are not the same – but the root causes are. Religious violence manifests in different ways, but there is a common thread. Identifying similarities and differences is part of understanding the world around you. Accepting this is something that is inherently more difficult for conservatives, who prefer a simple and clear-cut answer for everything. Unfortunately the world is not that simple.

“Make up your deluded mind. The countries that are predominantly Muslim have no human rights for women and gays and you are okay with that?”

How is that different from the countries that are predominantly Christian and have no human rights for women and gays? I’m not okay with either scenario.

“Where is the peaceful religion.”

That would be any faith that does not include a jealous “God”. It is the claim on spiritual superiority or “divine right” that causes all these problems.

“The countries that are predominantly Christian have gone way overboard on human rights.”

In some cases, yes, the Christian torture of Muslims has gone overboard. We’re working on that.

“All the major players in Islam have stated that their intent is to turn the whole world muslim, one way or the other. What christian says that.”

Have you never watched television on Sunday?

“You will make up your deluded mind when the US becomes muslim through shear numbers, like France, England it will just take a little longer….”

France and England are far from muslim. Most of Europe is essentially secular. It is the religiously charged political cultures of the US and the Islamic world that make faith such a dangerous thing here. I look forward to the day when all this religious nonsense can be brushed aside as the juvenile ranting and abusive, immature culture that it is.

Peace.

DS

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:05 pm 66. G Alston:

#54 — Horseshit. Terrorism is the intentional killing of the maximum number of random civilians as possible.

Terrorism is about inducing fear.

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:10 pm 67. G Alston:

#58 — Chalk me up as one. There is evil in this world that needs to be eradicated-not understood or condoned.

In that case you’re chalked up as a supporter of terrorism.

#56 — I won’t bother putting the link here again, it’s already been posted several times.

Good. A link to an op-ed by a conservative columnist with a reason to ascribe von Brunn as left wing is… an opinion, and a self-serving one at that.

“Conservatives” advocate laws restricting women’s rights, in effect arguing the case FOR statism. Neither you nor the op-ed columnist can argue that statism is left wing.

Left wing vs “conservatives” where it concerns statism is largely a matter of whether you agree on the intent, not the existence.

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:17 pm 68. G Alston:

#66 CONTINUED

By the way this is provable.

http://www.baen.com/chapters/axes.htm

Pournelle has a PhD in this stuff. You go get your own PhD to prove otherwise.

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:18 pm 69. AThinkingPerson:

In David S’s world:

Killing abortion doctor: heinous

Killing American soldier: senseless

Anyone else see a difference? See David, this is a perfect example of why we think you’re nuts. You’ve chosen to place the death of an abortionist by a mental case over that of a US soldier killed by a terrorist.

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:42 pm 70. myth buster:

By the standard applied in the Tiller case, the prophet Elijah would be considered a religious extremist, since he slit the throats of 450 baby killing priests of Baal. I would also like to note that what Elijah did was completely illegal, and that the queen wanted his head on a platter even more after this incident than she did before it. However, Elijah was completely in the right. He took the Law into his own hands with God’s blessing because the king and queen perverted justice- they protected baby killers while putting religious and political opponents to death.

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:48 pm 71. G Alston:

#70 — By the standard applied in the Tiller case, the prophet Elijah would be considered a religious extremist, since he slit the throats of 450 baby killing priests of Baal.

Yes, because until that point YHWH was willing to put up with Asherah and Baal and what their followers believed. They all lived side by side in a form of detente if not outright accord. When times were tough YHWH was more malevolent.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:09 pm 72. Conservative Mom:

“How is that different from the countries that are predominantly Christian and have no human rights for women and gays? I’m not okay with either scenario.”

I can’t think of any Christian countries that do not have human rights for women and gays. And this does not mean marriage, this means right to life without penalty. Muslim countries DO NOT ALLOW gays to live, they stone women to DEATH because they are seen without their keeper. Why are there no jews in a Muslim country – oh yes they KILL them. There are tens of thousands of examples of this. How can you consciously equate the 2, you are really deluded.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:11 pm 73. Self-hating Boomer:

You’re moron.

Ug. Me moron, but me talk good English. What you excuse?

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:27 pm 74. Juvenal:

The Little Rock recruiting station shooting is swept under the rug, while the murder of Dr. Tiller and the shooting at the Holocaust Remembrance Museum are made into two-for-one Reichstag fires for the current regime.

There absolutely is a double standard. There’s more than that: The White House, Justice and DHS HAVE CHOSEN SIDES in this in order order to get yet another political leg up on the competition. By convincing you that ONE KIND of religious fanaticism is a growing, systemic problem while THE OTHER KIND is just an isolated incident, they take another baby step toward the criminalization of thought that they find to be inconvenient or unorthodox.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:43 pm 75. Conservative Mom:

“In some cases, yes, the Christian torture of Muslims has gone overboard. We’re working on that.”

Now you are just joking, obviously. Waterboarding vs. CUTTING OFF heads. Yep, we are mean alright.

“France and England are far from muslim. Most of Europe is essentially secular. It is the religiously charged political cultures of the US and the Islamic world that make faith such a dangerous thing here. I look forward to the day when all this religious nonsense can be brushed aside as the juvenile ranting and abusive, immature culture that it is.”

France will be Muslim dominated with the ability to vote in Sharia Law by 2040 and some researches think earlier. Their rate of reproduction is so far beyond most Europeans, it is staggering.
http://www.gwias.com/globe/archive/000072.html

And now you say that all of Islam “can be brushed aside as the juvenile ranting and abusive, immature culture that it is.”

Good luck with that.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:51 pm 76. "progressive"watch:

But the good news is that most American’s reactions to the two murders was the opposite to Obama’s and his former msm propaganda machine’s . And make that three murders. The former and dying msm also gave disinformation and propagandized the New York murder.

Every time the former msm or Obama or the progressive-leftists make an ugly face,hold a mirror up to them.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:54 pm 77. myth buster:

YHWH was never willing to tolerate idolatry in Israel. Disaster always came upon Israel when they started worshiping idols, especially when these cults involved ritual sex and child sacrifice. He decreed the excommunication of anyone who tolerated the existence of temples where child sacrifice was practiced, or who refused to execute anyone who participated in such acts. One theme repeated time and again in the Old Testament is the obligation to judge impartially, showing neither fear, favor and respect nor contempt for the rich and powerful, but to render a just sentence. I say, bring in the bulldozers and tear down Tiller’s clinic.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:58 pm 78. "progressive"watch:

But the good news is that most Americans’ reactions to the two murders were the opposite to Obama’s and his former msm propaganda machine’s. And make that three murders. The former and dying msm also gave misinformation and propagandized the NY murder.

Every time the former msm or Obama or the progressive-left make an ugly face,hold a mirror up to them.

Jun 11, 2009 - 2:59 pm 79. Peter the Bubblehead:

To Mary @ 57:

I said:And where in your entire list is there any evidence any of these people were officially associated with any ‘right-wing’ movements?

You said: Our knowledge about these groups and these connections is incomplete. We need to learn more about them.

But you also said: (@ #20) how many “lone” Christian conservative nuts are going to shoot and kill innocent people before a grownup on the right-wing steps up, acknowledges the problem, and makes it clear that this mindless violence will not be tolerated anymore?

A short list of recent, ‘lone’ politically-linked murders.

So I conclude: Therefore, you are stating you ASSUME everyone on your list was a right-wing, conservative killer.

Thank you for admitting your bias. I will be ignoring any further posts you enter.

Jun 11, 2009 - 3:21 pm 80. Peter the Bubblehead:

67. G Alston wrote:
“Conservatives” advocate laws restricting women’s rights, in effect arguing the case FOR statism. Neither you nor the op-ed columnist can argue that statism is left wing.

Peter writes with disbelief: EXCUSE ME?!? The biggest statist I know of is also the biggest leftist I know of, and that is our so-called CinC, The Won! Go take your straw man, black is white argument to Wackyland, where it might make sense, because is sure doesn’t here in reality.

Jun 11, 2009 - 3:34 pm 81. Juvenal:

#69, A Thinking Person:

Something like:

“All religions are equal, but some religious fanatics are more equal than others?”

Jun 11, 2009 - 4:07 pm 82. Mary Madigan:

79. Peter the Bubblehead:

I didn’t say “So here’s my question: how many “lone” Christian conservative nuts are going to shoot and kill innocent people before a grownup on the right-wing steps up, acknowledges the problem, and makes it clear that this mindless violence will not be tolerated anymore?”

“Free Hat” said that. I was quoting him/her. That’s why I put his/her quote in italics.

Jun 11, 2009 - 4:57 pm 83. Banned by Huffpo:

If Pvt Long had been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, NPR would have interviewed his grieving family and friends for “All Things Considered.” Katie Couric would be there when the plane landed with his coffin and report in hushed tones of his gallant service while he was carried to the waiting hearse.

But if he gets assassinated on his home soil in his home town by a Muslim terrorist, it’s not news.

The so-called MSM has reached a new low. And that’s saying quite a bit.

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:02 pm 84. David S:

@75. Conservative Mom:

“Now you are just joking, obviously. Waterboarding vs. CUTTING OFF heads. Yep, we are mean alright.”

So I’m not supposed to mention the multiple suspicious deaths in US custody? Gotcha.

Of the 44 deaths that were followed by autopsies, 21 were classed as homicides. Those included deaths in custody from battlefield injuries. But the ACLU concluded that eight appeared to have resulted from abusive interrogation tactics, with strangulation, asphyxiation, and blunt force injuries listed as causes of death. That covers only the documents released and analyzed so far: The ACLU’s FOIA litigation is ongoing, and new batches of documents are released several times each month.

And that was back in February 2006! Oops!

“France will be Muslim dominated with the ability to vote in Sharia Law by 2040 and some researches think earlier. Their rate of reproduction is so far beyond most Europeans, it is staggering.”

Aside from the issue of the French Constitution, what makes you think that this demographic projection is written in stone, or destined to dismantle secular society? Everywhere that secular society has been tried, it has thrived and expanded – insular religious societies simply have a hard time competing with the free exchange of ideas that liberalism makes possible. I still don’t see how this justifies downplaying the killing of Dr. Tiller.

“And now you say that all of Islam “can be brushed aside as the juvenile ranting and abusive, immature culture that it is.””

Good luck with that.

No – I said “I look forward to the day when all this religious nonsense can be brushed aside as the juvenile ranting and abusive, immature culture that it is.” That includes the Christian nonsense as well as many others.

Peace.

DS

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:15 pm 85. Pat J:

The difference bwtween the two murdered men is obvious. Tiller was a public figure and a symbol of hate for the radical anti-abortion crowd. No one outside of his family and friends would have heard of William Long if it wasn’t for another equally deranged individual.

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:33 pm 86. Self-hating Boomer:

And there you have it in black-and-white (#85). To the leftist, the perp and his background and motive is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is the identity group of the victim. Or at least when it’s convenient, anyway.

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:54 pm 87. BettyBlue:

A soldier isn’t just a private individual; he’s part of the armed forces that defend the United States. And an attack on a recruiting station can be seen as an attack against America’s armed forces, and, hence, on America itself.

Not to mention that the guy who murdered him also had plans to to attack day care centers, churches and other places; that’s war, not just one, deranged individual.

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:55 pm 88. G Alston:

#80 — EXCUSE ME?!? The biggest statist I know of is also the biggest leftist I know of, and that is our so-called CinC, The Won!

Obama wants the state involved in the economic sphere; you want it involved in the social sphere. In terms of statist intent, there’s no difference other than where it’s aimed.

Enjoy that dissonance while you can.

Jun 11, 2009 - 6:20 pm 89. myth buster:

88. There is no dissonance. We want as little government as possible, but unlike you, we believe government is necessary to compel people to respect each others rights. As such, we believe in as much government as is necessary to protect the rights of the defenseless. No more, no less. We are willing to cut funding for law enforcement and jails in order to cut taxes and government intrusion, but only if crime is reduced because people regulate themselves. In other words, we want people to show restraint, or else we will restrain them, and we believe every innocent person has a right to life and liberty from conception until natural death. When you subordinate the rights of one person to the privileges of another, you have anarchy and tyranny, not liberty.

84. The only thing that the French can do to halt this demographic shift is to start having babies again. Nations that have one child per family or less are destined for extinction; that is natural selection at work. Another thing- the success or failure of Sharia states relative to liberal democracies is utterly irrelevant to the conversation. Why? Because the economy doesn’t matter to them. You are making the fatal mistake of projecting your values onto another culture. If they believe Sharia Law is more important to them than money or liberty, it will be enacted despite (or even because) the fact that it will be devastating to the society. Reasoning with them won’t work. What will work is Christianity. You have to fight religion with religion, and ideology with ideology. Anything else is liable to get you killed.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:15 pm 90. David S:

@89. myth buster:

“84. The only thing that the French can do to halt this demographic shift is to start having babies again.”

Really? That’s the only thing? You aren’t thinking creatively. There is a lot of complexity going on here with race, religion and nationality that is very perplexing to decipher. But I think there is probably more than one way to shift a demographic (nod to Godwin).

The “success or failure of states” is a very different issue from “the economy”. If France holds a new constitutional convention by 2040 and enacts Sharia law, I’ll give you kudos for your foresight – but the EU is not really compatible with that kind of scenario. Success or failure for a state is more about political stability.

When you toss aside all alternatives and blindly revert to bleating “Christianity”, my initial response is “you’re kidding, right?”. Then I realize that you actually believe this. That religious warfare between Islam and Christianity is not only a good idea, but that “anything else is liable to get you killed”. Talk about an upside down, topsy turvy world. As if the whole Muslim world were ignorant of Christ!

The answer to religious extremism is not equal and opposed religious extremism – it is measured and moderate secular states providing a free forum for all religions to cohabit peacefully. Conversion is not the answer – tolerance is. Persistence in many things is a virtue, but in pursuit of religious strife, it is a grave vice.

Peace.

DS

Jun 11, 2009 - 10:07 pm 91. Hot Lunch:

You may indeed be right that the murder of Dr. Tiller received more media attention. You certainly didn’t come anywhere close to proving it, or even making it a plausible idea. This paragraph gave it away:

Last month Scott Roeder murdered the abortionist “doctor” George Tiller, who referred to babies slipping out of the womb alive during killing procedures as “sloppy medicine” and admitted performing abortions up to the day before the baby’s delivery date.

And even there…did he do those things? I suppose we only have your word for it. You wouldn’t lie to us, of course.

And suppose there was more attention to the murder of Tiller over those soldiers. WHat does it mean? I mean, besides it fitting nicely into your pre-existing prejudices, what does it mean? Is it possible, its simply a more sensational story? The man was a doctor, he was murdered in a church, the murderer had a troubled history. What’s more the abortion ISSUE is contentious on both sides–do you think its only the pro=abortion contingent who made this a big story?

You’re obviously out of your element here. You couldn’t reason your way out of a wet paper bag.

Jun 11, 2009 - 11:47 pm 92. Mike2:

Great column LaShawn. Thanks for speaking the truth.

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:26 am 93. BettyBlue:

Actually, I think an attack on an American soldier, at a recruiting center, by someone who claims he’s doing it for Islam, and Allah, is pretty sensational.

Not to mention the fact that the killer also had plans to attack churches, day care centers, etc. I’d think someone should find this interesting.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:44 am 94. Mary Madigan:

Would it involve actual evidence, or would it just be a case of going after anyone who’d ever attended a tea party, been in the military, or was known to be pro-life?

This is the kind of response that indicates that partisanship has taken a great, flying lunatic leap into utter Howard Dean-esque paranoia.

The half (plus a few more) of the country that voted for the other guy is not the enemy. They’re not out to get you. When the other side wins an election, that is not a sign that real Americans have lost. It’s a sign that democracy is working.

And yes, an investigation would include actual evidence. That’s how Americans (even democrats!) do things.

An investigation of fringe groups would also benefit conservatives. For example, the media liked to pretend that the “God Hates F*gs” Westboro Baptist church in Kansas represented mainline Republican Baptists. A little bit of investigation proved that this ‘church’ was made up of one crazy family, the Phelps’. More investigation showed that the Phelps were influential Democrats who supported Gore in the last election.

Knowledge is power. The best way to fight the MSM is to prove them wrong, not to whine about media bias

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:27 am 95. Teleprompter Jesus:

And yes, an investigation would include actual evidence. That’s how Americans (even democrats!) do things.

Ahem. You need to read the latest memo. That’s the old white guy way of doing things.

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:20 am 96. Horace Wells:

non-Realist:

This is the same damaged biased, hysterical, gullible, emotional right wing media critics which by its inaction and disinterest allowed the BOGUS POTUS to get elected so what do you expect. The 2000 election? Sounds like another conspircay crackpot at work here.

Jun 13, 2009 - 9:12 pm 97. Horace Wells:

Sounds like more media kvetching to me. But PJM is all about right wing know nothings whining about media bias, but only when they disagree with the bias.

Jun 13, 2009 - 9:15 pm 98. LeftyK:

People!

He is not a member of the left or the right. He is a lunatic! He is crazy, just as anyone who murders another human is! Neither party or side has to claim him, but AMERICA certainly does and that means us ALL.

Also, La Shawn: putting ‘doctor’ in parenthesis shows your bias – he was an OB/GYN, who performed late term abortions as well. He certainly is a doctor. Although I am not sure if you are a ‘journalist’.

Jun 14, 2009 - 9:52 am 99. Dave Surls:

My guess would be that most people in the media, and in liberal Democrat circles would value the life of an abortionist more than the life of a soldier (sad but true, I fear).

Hence the reaction.

That being said, it’s extremely rare for an anti-abortion fanatic to actually kill someone, and it isn’t at all rare for Muslim fanatics to actually kill someone. Happens every damned day…so that makes it less newsworthy, and I suspect that might have something to do with the media’s reaction as well. They just don’t get all that excited by “dog bites man” stories.

Jun 15, 2009 - 12:46 am 100. Dave Surls:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties_may09.htm

Here’s a list of Americans who died in Iraq last month. Don’t expect the media to make as big a deal about their deaths as they’re going to make over an abortionist getting shot.

Because, it just ain’t going to happen.

Btw, five of those deaths were American servicemen murdered, apparently by one of our own servicemen, in one incident, and if the media made as big as fuss about five of our guys getting murdered in Iraq as they’ve made about this Tiller character getting shot…I sure missed it.

Jun 15, 2009 - 1:00 am 101. Dovid:

DAVID LETTERMAN’S HATE, ETC. !

David Letterman’s hate is as old as some ancient Hebrew prophets.
Speaking of anti-Semitism, it’s Jerry Falwell and other fundy leaders who’ve gleefully predicted that in the future EVERY nation will be against Israel (an international first?) and that TWO-THIRDS of all Jews will be killed, right?
Wrong! It’s the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who predicted all this in the 13th and 14th chapters of his book! The last prophet, Malachi, explains the reason for this future Holocaust that’ll outdo even Hitler’s by stating that “Judah hath dealt treacherously” and “the Lord will cut off the man that doeth this” and asks “Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother?”
Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin) against a leading evangelical named Sarah Palin, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned Palin’s continuing “crucifixion”!
While David, Sandra, and Kathy are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!
(For even more stunning information, visit MSN and type in “Separation of Raunch and State” and “Bible Verses Obama Avoids.”)

Jun 23, 2009 - 10:32 pm

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