Pajamas Media

26 Comments

1. huxley:

Thank you, Mr. Javedanfar, for this perspective.

However, Channel 4 wasn’t even thinking about the good of the British people in giving Ahmadinejad the spotlight on Christmas Day, much less the good of Iranians.

Instead Channel 4 was pressing the multi-culti agenda that they imagine transcends national boundaries and is for the good of the world.

Dec 27, 2008 - 3:03 am 2. Tony R:

When Channel 4 first hit the airwaves back in the early 1980’s (if my memory serves me correctly) there were only 3 other terrestrial tv stations available in the UK. Channel 4’s goal was to be the funky cool tv station to rival the more serious mainsteam stations of ITV and BBC i.e. playing wider varieties of music than the standard pop fare, showing “artistic” porn movies, pushing and promoting gay-rights etc, etc. Controversy appeared to be its main agenda and it was a breath of fresh air way back then.

Now however, with satelite tv and 100’s of tv stations available in the UK, Channel 4 has disappeared into the background so it has to go to greater and greater lengths to stay loyal to its “controversial” roots.

This “Iranian Thug” business to grab the headlines was a poor poor piece of judgement. Picking someone precisely because they are unpopular is fine for example with disgraced politicians who were caught screwing around or chatshow hosts who lost their jobs because they like hookers and cocaine a little too much….but picking someone who would happily re-enact the holocaust and who ironically wants to see the end of the decadent western values that Channel 4 themselves have been champions of all these years just makes the station an embarrassment to the UK.

They should be unutterably ashamed of what they did.

Dec 27, 2008 - 5:08 am 3. Judy, NYC:

the brits have become so peculiar, that as one those of us who have always enjoyed their special humor and quirky characteristics, i cannot listen to a british accent without shuddering. to a person, they deny that muslims have gained enormous power there, they deny that there is virulent anti-semitism which is both dangerous and sickening, and that they toady to these islamists carefully denuding news reports (including mumbai) of anything mentioning islam.
the world is a crazy place these days. world opinion really means nothing. it is like running into an insane asylum and polling the inmates who are off their meds.

the iranian psychotic channel 4 allowed to address the british people on christmas would happily chop off their heads and videotape it.

to put such a lunatic on television is heinous. they might as well dig up hitler, and animitronic that nut.

Dec 27, 2008 - 5:45 am 4. Winston:

see who is saying shame on Britain for airing Ahmadinejad’s message. Mr. Javedanfar has been supporting the dialogue with the very regime he is now condemning. Isn’t it weird?

Dec 27, 2008 - 9:38 am 5. Ann:

Wow. Does this not mean that next year during the Haj (or surely during Eid), a Christian leader will be able to present an alternative message to the Muslim world on Al Jazeera?? I would think so. Maybe not?

It’s hard to believe that the Brits are really this stupid and/or deceived. Oh well, they were the ones who wanted to play nice with Hitler until it became patently impossible.

What do you think it will take? An Imam wanting to yell the prayer times from the top of Buckingham Palace 5 times a day? Demanding that the royals introduce the presence and use of prayer rugs into the Queen’s presentation at the opening of Parliament each year?

We’re not doing much better at this point in terms of media and politics. Hope our illustrious mouthpieces figure it out in time.

Dec 27, 2008 - 12:05 pm 6. Ann:

Clarification: I KNOW that this was done by a private station, but the effect for the nation is no different than if it had been done by Parliament. This kind of crap is the result of PC kneejerk decision making: nobody in the British government dared make a fuss before it aired for fear of being accused of something awful (like sticking up for the traditional values of Great Britain).

Dec 27, 2008 - 12:08 pm 7. jonesy55:

“i cannot listen to a british accent without shuddering.”

You need to get out more.

“to a person, they deny that muslims have gained enormous power there, they deny that there is virulent anti-semitism which is both dangerous and sickening, and that they toady to these islamists carefully denuding news reports (including mumbai) of anything mentioning islam.”

Even by the standards of the people frequenting this site, this is sightly over the top. Muslims have not ‘gained enormous power’, they are maybe 3% of the population and even at that low level they are under-represented in virtually all bodies which wield power in this country, they also earn less than average and therefore have less economic power than other groups.

There is some anti-semitism in the UK, and this is more prevalent in the muslim community than elsewhere it is true. There is also predjudice and discrimination against other minorities just as there is in your country and across the world. The average Brit is almost certainly more likely to hold anti-islamic views or negative views about black people than they are to hold anti-semitic views. Blaming jews for poisoning the local well isn’t exactly a common topic of conversation in the pubs, offices and factories of the UK. In my life here I have heard many many racial insults and derogatory remarks about ‘pakis’ and but anti-semitic remarks and views I can count on one hand. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist but on the list of prejudices it is way down towards the bottom in the British psyche just above anti-zoroastrianism.

As for denuding news reports, I think that everybody is perfectly aware that those responsible for the Mumbai attacks were mostly Pakistani muslims, this is not at all hidden and seems quite obvious from the news coverage I have seen where islamist extremism, links to the taliban and al-qaeda etc has been regularly mentioned. The same applies for other terrorist attacks.

It seems that you are just projecting your anger that the rest of the world does not share your extreme views and doesn’t express the level of hatred that you would like.

Dec 27, 2008 - 3:03 pm 8. jonesy55:

“Wow. Does this not mean that next year during the Haj (or surely during Eid), a Christian leader will be able to present an alternative message to the Muslim world on Al Jazeera?? I would think so. Maybe not?”

Probably not, so do you think that if we abandoned our traditions of free speech to become more like these countries you criticise this would be a good thing?

I don’t, this is hardly a publicity coup for ahmedinejad anyway, he has received pretty much universal negative reviews for his christmas message over here, I don’t see anything so seductive about his views and arguments to suggest that he should be silenced.

To do so would make him out to be more important than he actually is, as executive presidents around the world go he’s got to be one of the least powerful under his country’s decision making framework.

Dec 27, 2008 - 3:10 pm 9. David:

This is just a result of our brothers on the other side of the pond caving in to Islamic Nazis

Dec 27, 2008 - 4:15 pm 10. Mik:

Bad news for those trying to be diplomatic, Britain has sold out. Not much of a secret any more. Paid off politicians and media, preferred oil prices, billions infused into British financial institutions.

I spent a good part of my life in Britain. A place where democracy had it’s roots, a place where many of the greatest scientists, philosphers, and writers came from.

Now a total capitulation to the mantra of “blame the Jews, blame the Americans.”

I’ve watched the UK crumble culturally and ethically in one generation.

Sad.

Mik

Dec 27, 2008 - 10:39 pm 11. Eran K:

Iran’s President is addicted to facebook. REALLY:check it out http://www.buzzinews.com

Dec 28, 2008 - 5:51 am 12. Brian Richard Allen:

Thank you, Judy, NYC, for so succinctly summing the effect on the last scraps of the individual-liberty-based free and first world of the sad sinking into squalidly fascissocialistic third world status of all of the Europeons’ Neo-Soviet’s member states. Including of that failed f-up’s off-shore satellite state.

The level of morbid, directed toward America and all things American, effective hesperophobia (of which charnel [advisedly] 4’s choice of Christmas speaker is a manifestation) among universally ingrate Europeons, Brits included, continues to accelerate explosively.

(Especially as millions of Europeons escape to America and every trans-Atlantic 747 that lands on our shores increases by around 50% both sides of that ocean’s percentage of envy, hatred and rage driven self-and-America-loathing cryptofascists — witness November 4 2008!)

Meanwhile, since you’re talking about digging up Hitler: Right this minute Europe’s (Eurabia’s) fifth and sixth and seventh-generation appeasers (Unless it was the loathsome and fearsome Clement Atlee, the traitor, Wilson or the self-and-own-culture loathing Blair, no British politician ever better-represented his electorate than Neville Chamberlain) are crafting rules and regulations and “constitutions” and “treaties” that seek to call opposition to antisemitism “islamaphobia.” And — Blair having seen to the demise of even the delusion that the Britain the Anglo-American, Churchill, thought he and America were defending had even lasted into the Twentieth century — whatever Europe cooks up, once great Britain has for breakfast. And for lunch. And for dinner.

Forgetting for the minute about every evil ideology-posing-as-”religion’s every psychopathologically-hesperophobic adherent’s every intention — demographically — unable and/or unwilling to breed at rates sufficient to their survival, Briton’s and the rest of Europe’s surviving shadows of their formerly somewhat civilized ancestors are doomed.

Nature permits no vacuums and and-already seriously Sharia-subordinate Britain’s — and the rest of Europe’s … um … “immigrants” are having five and six and seven state-subsidized children per couple.

And thank you, too, jonesy55, for so quickly making Judy, NYC’s case for her.

QED, hey Judy, hey Jonesy?

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – CalifUBAMAcated 90028 — & the Far Abroad

Dec 28, 2008 - 6:34 am 13. Spindok:

The British hand is totally open. The cards are flipped up for anyone to see. This is only one example. The man who openly hosted a holocaust denial ‘conference’ is feted and invited to address the nation on Christmas Day.

Y’all have no balls left.

Lets talk about the Basra sellout and retreat, the sickening response in government and press to what is happening in Gaza and Israel, the anemic effort in Afghanistan…

This is not some shrewed political stategy to capture or take advantage of the potential wealth and power of the middle east or any other place.

It has nothing to do with peace either and only delivers perpetual war. It is the mewing of a defeated nation trying to hold on to the remnants of its former glory like an aging spinster.

Your soldiers are ashamed to wear their uniforms in public. Over here a military ID will ensure that you never get a traffic ticket (within reason) and get top service anywhere.

Even British pop culture has become irrelevent. You gave us 007, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Now we get Coldplay and Oasis.

Medical science now looks to the US, India, Asia, or Israel. Your publications are near discredited in the medical community. Reduced to the now distrusted Lancet or public policy consensus statements which amount to nothing.

So what do you have? Well, a nice island with many nice features. Nothing more.

Spindok

Dec 28, 2008 - 1:33 pm 14. Ann:

“abandoning our traditions of free speech a good thing”?……..of course not, but at the present that is certainly not the danger. Because of the PC decision making in various circles, our traditions of free speech are being used to destroy us. Is that a good thing?

How much destruction and weakness are you willing to incur to prove that you are in favor of free speech?

Our “free speech traditions” are being used to undermine (ultimately) our free speech traditions. Have you not noticed that within completely Islamic cultures, controlled by Islamic governments, individuals are allowed no freedom–of movement, of speech or any other kind. Are these the kind of people we want to give an opportunity of influence–using our “tradition of free speech”, perhaps just to prove how magnanimous we are about free speech?

Using your logic, I guess we will just continue to generously provide free speech opportunities until we have the same audio ambience here that is now avialable in many European cities: the Muslim publicly broadcast call to prayer, five times a day.

Terrorists are COUNTING ON our apparent need to prove how nice we are, how much we are willing to extend them our freedoms. I’m sure they are pleased that the Brits saw it the same way.

Dec 28, 2008 - 2:22 pm 15. jonesy55:

Brian Richard Allen, verbosity is no substitute for substance, come back when you have something useful to say.

Dec 29, 2008 - 12:57 am 16. jonesy55:

Spindok

“The British hand is totally open. The cards are flipped up for anyone to see. This is only one example. The man who openly hosted a holocaust denial ‘conference’ is feted and invited to address the nation on Christmas Day.

Y’all have no balls left.”

So it would display our cojones to ban the speech of people we disagreed with? To me that would seem fearful, I have nothing to be scared of listening to Ahmedinejad speak, do you?

“Lets talk about the Basra sellout and retreat, the sickening response in government and press to what is happening in Gaza and Israel, the anemic effort in Afghanistan…”

The Iraq war was a dreadful mistake as most British people and many Americans said at the time, taking our eye of the Afghan ball for a distraction that was at best peripheral, at worst downright counterproductive.

200 soldiers killed in Afghanistan is anemic? How many do you want dead, 2,000? 20,000? Remember that the US has 5 times the population of the UK.

“It has nothing to do with peace either and only delivers perpetual war. It is the mewing of a defeated nation trying to hold on to the remnants of its former glory like an aging spinster.”

Surely a nation trying to hold on to its former glory would have an aggressive and interventionist foreign policy? How is the opposite policy (which you seem to be claiming is the case) a sign of this?

“Your soldiers are ashamed to wear their uniforms in public. Over here a military ID will ensure that you never get a traffic ticket (within reason) and get top service anywhere.”

I see soldiers in uniform all the time, it seems that you have no idea what you are talking about, just another armchair pundit ponificating on the internet on subjects of which you have scant knowledge.

As for soldiers being above the law, this is not a positive thing in my opinion but if that’s the tradition over there then so be it.

“Even British pop culture has become irrelevent. You gave us 007, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Now we get Coldplay and Oasis.”

lol, frankly I don’t care if UK pop culture seems relevant to you, personally I think that it is healthy when our pop culture is relevant to Britain rather than made with the US market in mind, this is a signn of a confident and healthy culture. I’m sure that you don’t care that the UK can’t abide US country music and nor should you.

“Medical science now looks to the US, India, Asia, or Israel. Your publications are near discredited in the medical community. Reduced to the now distrusted Lancet or public policy consensus statements which amount to nothing.”

It amounts to a population who live longer healthier lives than in the US so I guess that must count for something in the field of healthcare. I’m sure some sterling work goes on in India and Israel but to say that these countries are far ahead of the UK and Europe just shows how ridiculously biased and unobjective you are being.

“So what do you have? Well, a nice island with many nice features. Nothing more.”

lol, ok, whatever makes you happy. Believing something and repeating it doesn’t make it true though.

Dec 29, 2008 - 1:14 am 17. jonesy55:

Ann

Our “free speech traditions” are being used to undermine (ultimately) our free speech traditions. Have you not noticed that within completely Islamic cultures, controlled by Islamic governments, individuals are allowed no freedom–of movement, of speech or any other kind. Are these the kind of people we want to give an opportunity of influence–using our “tradition of free speech”, perhaps just to prove how magnanimous we are about free speech?

Not all Muslim countries are as restrictive as say Saudi Arabia but I take your point that they are not generally very free places in terms of free speech. However I still don’t see that Ahmedinejad’s words and ideas are so seductive and appealing that the public needs to be banned from hearing them.

“Using your logic, I guess we will just continue to generously provide free speech opportunities until we have the same audio ambience here that is now avialable in many European cities: the Muslim publicly broadcast call to prayer, five times a day.”

Which cities would they be? Obviously in Muslim European countries like Albania and Bosnia or in Istanbul it is to be expected but i’ve never heard it anywhere else and i’ve been to dozens of European cities. Maybe there have been a couple of proposals (as there have been in the US – http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2008/09/video-minaret-blasts-islamic-call-to-prayer-in-boston.html) but the fact that you seem to think that it it common to hear the muezzin in European cities seems to me typical of the misinformation that the right-wing media propagates. It certainly isn’t common at all, I work in a city with one of the highest percentages of muslims in Europe and it doesn’t happen here so it is very unlikely to happen in most European cities where muslims are only 1-2% of the population.

Dec 29, 2008 - 1:33 am 18. Spindok:

@ jonsey55

Appreciate your input and thoughts.

Good response to my attack.

Pop culture and art is critical. Lets go with this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4OXrmxDp44&feature=related

You might know Gary Moore. Northern Irish – awesome guitar player. He performs here with the American blues master BB King – you call that “country music” maybe. This is manna from heaven for me. You cant stand it, I gather from your post. I could listen to it all day. Yes I know Gary is Irish, not British or UK.

Long shot from there to what passes as brit-pop these days.

Yep you still got some terrific guys out there. You just havent supported them enough. You put out thousands of your best without a coherent plan or backup. Brits are out of Iraq now. Thank you very much.

I think the USA is gearing up now to do what needs to be done in Afghanistan. Some of your young people are on the line now.

I read something recently; A letter from the now dead Al-Queda leader in Iraq (Musab al-Zarqawi), dated Januray 2004, to his comrades in arms:

” There is no doubt that the Americans’ losses are very heavy because they are deployed accross a wide area and among the people, and because it is easy to procure weapons, all of which makes them easy and mouthwatering targets for the believers. But America did not come to leave, and it will not leave no matter how numerous its wounds become and how much of its blood is spilled…”

Not so for the UK. Easy for the Machdi Army do get rid of them. Harder for the Iraqi/US in the aftermath.

Anyway thanks for the help. Go listen to some Coldplay.

Spindok

Dec 29, 2008 - 8:44 am 19. Spindok:

Youtube link which I meant in my post above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw&feature=related

Although the other one aint too bad at all.

Spin

Dec 29, 2008 - 8:53 am 20. jonesy55:

Actually Spindok i’d much rather listen to BB King than Coldplay but that’s rather besides the point. Just because that’s all the British music your radio stations play doesn’t mean that’s all there is and certainly doesn’t mean it’s the best there is.

I certainly wouldn’t calll BB King ‘country’, I’m thinking more of the commercial pop-country twaddle that comes out of nashville these days, that doesn’t have much of an audience outside the US but if you guys like it and see it as relevant to your culture then that’s the important thing.

Dec 29, 2008 - 10:32 am 21. Bugs:

It’s not a free speech issue. It’s not A’s actual words that have an effect on people. It’s the fact that a major Western television network treated him like a big-time international player, carved out a special bit of expensive airtime for him, gave him access to a vast international audience – and the fact that there was nothing the British government could do about it. It was an act of subversion, aimed at demonstrating the helplessness of Western civilization against Muslims who are more than prepared to use its institutions to further their own agenda. Everyone understands the dilemma here except leftist apologists for third-world “victims.”

Dec 29, 2008 - 12:04 pm 22. jonesy55:

Bugs, I’m actually pretty pleased that the British government did nothing to stop it, direct governmental interference in the editorial choices of media is not a road I want to go down.

The fact is that he IS the president of Iran (even if he doesn’t wield much of the real power there), which is a prominent country in international affairs, always in the news, why not hear what he has to say to us, it can’t hurt.

It does not demonstrate weakness or helplessness, what demonstrates weakness is a State that feels forced to silence its opponents because it knows that allowing citizens access to their arguments will damage the credibility of the domestic political system (such as in Iran, Zimbabwe or North Korea)

Dec 29, 2008 - 2:34 pm 23. Ann:

Jonesy 55…post 17….I’ll take your comments into consideration and try to pay closer attention to the reports I may see re the muezzin (sources, etc.) The reports I saw earlier this week did not seem to me to be knee jerk right wing. Maybe they were.

I have taken the time to read between 15-20 books this past year from across the political spectrum regarding the “Muslim threat”, because I want to have useful understanding of what’s going on. It just seems like, as usual, the serious responses of our leaders are so far behind the curve and off kilter.

I still can’t believe they’ve begun to introduce Sharia principles into government finance. That information came from a wide variety of sources, and was sort of spit out into the flow of communications over a period of 4-5 weeks. I got the distinct impression that the bureaucrats weren’t anxious to have that one catch fire out here in the hinterlands.

I acknowledge that I am conservative and I have very strong opinions about this stuff. I try to have informed opinions and intend to express them legitimately…..so thanks for your response!

Dec 29, 2008 - 6:51 pm 24. Ann:

I can read both comments 21 and 22 and see the points of both. My emotional instinct is with 21, and I’m willing to think about 22.

Dec 29, 2008 - 6:52 pm 25. jonesy55:

Thanks Ann, it’s nice to have a reasonable conversation with somebody you don’t agree with, it makes a change, lol!

Dec 31, 2008 - 2:13 am 26. sara:

Hello,and Happy New Year to you all!

I am student from Iran. I am sorry about what Channel 4 did by showing Ahmadinejat.

I am sorry that still some countries and some people are still support this inhuman government who only care for thier power by killing and tourturing even their own people.
you can read on our weblog in Iran http://studentscommittee.blogfa.com
there is not a day that you don’t hear about execution of people even under age 18.
unfortunatlly still other governments care about money , oil and trading with this inhuman government of Iran rather than to think of Iranian people who want their democracy and freedom for their own country and they should help them to reach that by not giving any help to his mullahs regime.
we believe that they should put more sanction on Iran rather that to put this ugly man on their T.V.

Please have a visit on our weblog to know the reality in my country.

Wish you the bests in this new year!

Thank you,
SARA

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:10 am

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