Algeria, the CIA, Rape, and the Black Plague
Rape accusations against the CIA station chief in Algeria could not have come at a worse time in the battle against bioweapons.
The news that Andrew Warren, the CIA station chief in Algeria, allegedly drugged and raped two local Muslim women at his U.S. embassy residence in North Africa would be shocking anywhere around the globe — at anytime. But the fact that this happened in Algeria, presently, could not be worse news for world security. If a CIA presence in Algeria was unwelcome before, no doubt Warren’s actions (Warren is a self-described convert to Islam) have greatly jeopardized the CIA’s legitimacy and credibility in a volatile nation that has become the newest laboratory for al-Qaeda’s deadly biological warfare program.
According to a search warrant filed in Washington, D.C., Warren drugged his female victims, both Muslims, before raping them. Diplomatic security investigators recovered photographs from Warren’s computer, which showed him having sex with one of the victims who appears to be unconscious. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Steve Coll describes the incident as an “Abu Ghraib-inspired sequel involving American power, the Arab world, sexual violence, and digital photography.” Making matters worse, the news of the CIA rape scandal broke in the same week that President Obama went on Arab TV discussing how important it is that the image of the United States overseas undergoes a transformation. The CIA scandal makes that all the more unlikely.
But aside from the damage to the so-called hearts and minds in the Muslim world, there will likely be consequences in the war on terror as well. The CIA depends upon cooperation from its host country to gather intelligence from locals. The station chief, as Andrew Warren was, would have been in charge of establishing relationships with officers in Algerian intelligence. If any of those individuals was motivated to work with the CIA before, they may be rethinking that partnership now.
Algeria has become a hotbed of al-Qaeda in North Africa. The death toll in suicide bombings there continues to increase ever since al-Qaeda’s number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, declared in 2006 that his group had teamed up with Algerians in the name of jihad. The following year, calling themselves al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, terrorists bombed the United Nations headquarters in the capital city of Algiers, killing 41 people. The bombings continue in size and death toll. Further complicating matters for Europe is the fact that many Algerians live in France and move freely between the two countries, importing and exporting al-Qaeda as they move around.
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Annie Jacobsen writes about aviation and intelligence. She blogs at TheAviationNation.com and is working on a new book for Little Brown and Company.
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52 Comments
1. Bill N:People get rabies from the bite of infected rats, not plague. To get plague, one must be bitten by an infected flea, usually an oriental rat flea, Xenopsylla cheopsis. The flea bites an infected rat, the rat dies from plague, the flea deserts the dead host and looks for another. If it’s a rat, the new rat gets plague, if human, the human gets it. Kill rats, spray for fleas, and keep a supply of tetracycline and you are pretty much spared an epidemic. Al Qaeda is wasting their time on this one (unless it’s their intent to kill other flea-bitten terrorists, in which case, I wish them well).
Feb 3, 2009 - 11:44 pm 2. Marc Malone:How did a man who converted to Islam get to be a station chief for the CIA? Don’t these dimwits get that Islam is our enemy? Well, he seems to have lived up to Islamic beliefs. They hate women and believe in dominating them. Rape sure qualifies. Perhaps he did it because they went about without a male family member to escort them. Shameless hussies asked for it.
Interesting that maybe a WMD got out of control in the hands of jihadists. Maybe they’ll decide that that is a really bad idea. ‘Sfunny how the leaders really hate to risk their OWN skins. This’ll make ‘em think twice. Meanwhile, perhaps some escaped and will spread the plague throughout Islamic countries. That’ll really garner some support for them. Ha!
(Man, am I in a bad mood tonight. Hmmm. Step away from the Red Button!)
Feb 4, 2009 - 1:28 am 3. Rolf Krake:What to expect.
Warren converted to islam, he would otherwise be a beacon for the Obama insanity, when he is a muslim he has already discharted civilized values.
I wonder if digital imaging is sufficient to replace the 4 witnesses required by the female victims according to the sharia.
Feb 4, 2009 - 2:49 am 4. Craig:I must be missing something, why would Muslim men be outraged? If he was a true convert, the mullahs and the wahabbists should think this is no big deal. Ahhh..but wait…he was an AMERICAN.
Feign anger in 4….3…..2…
Feb 4, 2009 - 4:07 am 5. Brian Richard Allen:Marc Malone wonders how a (bureaucrat) who converted to Islam got to be a station chief for the CIA and whether (the Cli’ton Crime Family corrupted, DNC-activist-infiltrated CIA’s) dimwits get that Islam is our enemy?
And the answer IS?
No.
The CIA (and — thank you, Cli’ton Crime Family — pretty much the entire feral bureaucracy) is right now about as true to its charter as, for a time, the Catholic Church in America, then similarly infiltrated and corrupted by manifestations of the same evil, was true to its.
Let’s pray and trust that at some time in the future the feral bureaucracy is as successfully restored.
Brian Richard Allen
Feb 4, 2009 - 4:45 am 6. njcommuter:Los Angeles – CalifCLI’TONcated 90028 and the Far Abroad
If the CIA station chief really is, in our best opinion, guilty, he should be placed on trial in Algeria BY Algeria. He should be kept in US custody so he cannot be questioned, and that should continue after his trial and conviction, up until his execution (if that should in fact be carried out).
US law probably does not allow this, but it would be both just and a reasonable offering to Algerian opinion.
Feb 4, 2009 - 6:33 am 7. njcommuter:Oh, yes, I forgot to mention: the Black Plague is the result of a bacterium, not a virus. This is important; as Bill N noted, the organism is susceptible to antibiotics, though a genetically engineered version might not be vulnerable to anything in the current pharmacopia.
Feb 4, 2009 - 6:34 am 8. gcblues:Islam is our enemy?
people that do not believe that are dim wits?
that qualifies as intelligent think?
that is conservative?
you want a crusade to destroy the planets dominant religion and think that is a responsible idea destined to propel conservative thinking into office?
and people here speak of how English culture as superior?
ouch
pathetic.
why is the hate speech against Muslims and Latins not banned here?
Feb 4, 2009 - 7:24 am 9. Charlie (Colorado):I just find it difficult to beleive a CIA guy could organize anything that complicated.
Feb 4, 2009 - 7:24 am 10. Oscar the Grump:We can pick on Latins too?
Feb 4, 2009 - 9:07 am 11. Oscar the Grump:Point of fact we have Bubonic plague endemic here in the USA. The prairie dogs of Colorado are endemic carriers of the disease and occassionally somebody dies of it. The has been some rare cases of it in California with the ground squirrels being the carrier. This disease requires a vector which usually is in the form of a flea.
Feb 4, 2009 - 9:17 am 12. Cybergeezer:Where’s the outrage for the rape of the American People by the Main Stream Media and the Obama Administration?
Feb 4, 2009 - 9:35 am 13. Ruebacca:Islam is our enemy?
people that do not believe that are dim wits?
that qualifies as intelligent think?
that is conservative?
you want a crusade to destroy the planets dominant religion and think that is a responsible idea destined to propel conservative thinking into office?
and people here speak of how English culture as superior?
ouch
pathetic.
why is the hate speech against Muslims and Latins not banned here?
What part of the last 30 years shows us Islam is not the enemy. How many more dead bodies and death threats do you need.
I love how you put in your Latin victomhood.
Anglo-saxon culture produced: anti-biotics, anti-virals, moon-landings and the bill of rights.
Feb 4, 2009 - 9:56 am 14. John Moore:If the disease really was pneumonic plague, it is not as ominous as it sounds.
Just last year a field biologist died of pneumonic plague contracted at the Grand Canyon. It spread to nobody else.
The disease is deadly but in the modern world, epidemics would be prevented or quickly contained.
As another poster wrote, without weaponization, it is also highly susceptible to antibiotics. Also, the yersinia pestis pathogen is common (and thus available to a determined searcher) in the western third of the United States, having been introduced in 1900 at San Francisco.
Feb 4, 2009 - 10:13 am 15. Mike T:Only a dimwit couldn’t see the obvious, probable answer: he was already station chief and converted to Islam either after taking the post or didn’t tell anyone before he took the position. Let’s also not forget the fact that the CIA is still bound to federal law which prohibits discrimination against people on the basis of religion, which would make discriminating against him for his religion a fireable offense for his superiors.
On the other hand, even after the prosecution of Jonathan Pollard, it’s doubtful that US intelligence has ever questioned the loyalties of Jewish employees when they have to get their security clearances. God forbid we make people feel like they’re being discriminated against.
Feb 4, 2009 - 10:20 am 16. Mike T:I don’t particularly agree with the anti-religious discrimination statutes, personally, as I think certain religions are predisposed to doing certain things that others aren’t, but I’m not going to blame the CIA for following mandates placed upon it by Congress.
Feb 4, 2009 - 10:22 am 17. Gloria:Before you post a story, please learn the science and get your facts right. I don’t think it is too much to ask, especially since you are not operating on a deadline–this plague story has been out for some time.
Commenters #1, #7, #11 and #14 are worth attending to.
When I visited Vietnam in 1963, the plague was prevalent there. Before I entered the country I got a shot in Hong Kong to protect myself.
An important fact is that the plague is spread by a vector–a flea. If sanitation and vermin control is good in a country, the likelihood of its spread is low. You probably could have gotten the facts right simply by getting sound info from the web. Why didn’t you bother?
Feb 4, 2009 - 10:55 am 18. Thomas:@gcblues
Feb 4, 2009 - 11:24 am 19. Marc Malone:you say: why is the hate speech against Muslims and Latins not banned here?
Permit me to suggest: instead of imposing your leftist censorship on somebody else’s blog why don’t you move on to DailyKos or DU where you will be warmly welcomed. You could also learn vulgar, crass and obscene words from your comrades.
Do not try to assume the role of a self appointed Word Warden on Pajama People.
Tangentially speaking the Latins are died out with their last emperor, Romulus Augustulus.
#15 Mike T – I believe that his security clearance could be yanked, so then he’d be reassigned to non-sensitive areas, if there are such in the CIA.
#8 gcblues – Calling Islam our enemy is NOT hate speech. It’s just identifying the enemy. How many times do they have to chant “Death to America” before you grasp this? I’m simply acknowledging their declarations that they believe us to be the enemy, “the Great Satan”. Besides, if you read the packaged manure that is the Quran and the Hadith, you would conclude the same. Peruse the Quran, starting near the back.
As regards the plague, you guys are probably right, but then why did they flee? They were scared of something. Perhaps they know something we don’t?
Feb 4, 2009 - 11:33 am 20. cedarford:To get plague, one must be bitten by an infected flea, usually an oriental rat flea, Xenopsylla cheopsis. The flea bites an infected rat, the rat dies from plague, the flea deserts the dead host and looks for another. If it’s a rat, the new rat gets plague, if human, the human gets it. Kill rats, spray for fleas, and keep a supply of tetracycline and you are pretty much spared an epidemic. Al Qaeda is wasting their time on this one (unless it’s their intent to kill other flea-bitten terrorists, in which case, I wish them well).
Plague is a disease well-suited to be spread precisely because it is spread directly by small biting creatures that can be packed a million to a bomb and seek out the nearest warm-blooded victim.
The Japanese loved plague as a warfare agent. It was something they worked hard on to overcome “technical difficulties”. For years they experimented with flea-bombs in China. Once they got through the difficulty of functioning “nurseries” to create hundreds of millions of plague-riddled fleas, they found the bombs only remained viable for the short flea life and they needed air. Then the Japs found that it was exceptionally difficult to disperse the fleas from air or by bomb without killing them.
Once they got through that, they then found the plague weapons worked too well. Yes they killed thousands of Chinese and were very cost-effective, but they then persisted in the areas bombed with plague fleas. Which meant that occupying Jap troops who then moved into areas also got the plague and died in the thousands – a real morale buster.
Late in the war, the Japs limited themselves to biowar on Chinese villages and cities they did not intend to occupy. They did try to send balloons full of plague fleas to the USA along with incendary ones they meant to cause forest fires, but neither was militarily effective.
After the war, the Japanese benefited from the attention diverted to the “more effecient” Nazi atrocities, that the US and Soviets decided to play ball with the biowar Jap scientists for their own programs, that China quickly became our commie enemy and the Japs our friends, and that Chinese ethnics were not influential or even dominant in Western mass media, or heavily present in academia.
Many people do not know that the American plague that always kills a few Americans a year out West from infected ground squirrel reservoir populations are seeing the 100+ year old effects of Chinese immigrants who brought an endemic Chinese version of plague to America.
MikeT – On the other hand, even after the prosecution of Jonathan Pollard, it’s doubtful that US intelligence has ever questioned the loyalties of Jewish employees when they have to get their security clearances. God forbid we make people feel like they’re being discriminated against.
No, on the contrary. The one good thing to come out of the Pollard Affair is that Pollard and his defense that as an American Jew he was automatically more loyal to Israel than America – is the “Pollard Oath” that people have to sign when seeking a high security clearance. IMO, it would also be a damn good idea to force every member of Congress and anyone in a high position in any capacity in Federal Gov’t to also have to take the “Pollard Oath”.
And the “Pollard Oath” is good because it doesn’t target just American Jews. (In fairness to them, many high-placed Jews fully backed nailing Pollard to the wall and backed the Oath as a way to diminish distrust of Jews and the persistant problem of Jews “loyalty to country.”) The Oath was made non-religious, non-sectarian and anyone going for a certain level security clearance has to take it. Frankly, the biggest problem is immigrant or 1st Gen Chinese ethnics that help out the largest spy effort in America. And we have troublesome new problems with people who place Islam 1st, Mexico 1st, India 1st, Iraq 1st, Palestine 1st…while living here and enjoying a green card or direct benefits of US citizenship. As well as the old problem of a minority of Jews, Christian Zionists, and bribed US officials – some who may even think they are loyal, but damage US interests to further Israels with the rationale that the US is so big and powerful and prosperous that the damage done to the US and merican People by them is piddling and not really that harmful, while the benefit to them or AIPAC or Israel is enormous.
(The same logic applies to people that want masses of unassimilatable 3rd World refugees given “sanctuary” in the US. It might damage us, but not as much as the huge benefit “noble freedom-lovers” from Nigeria get, or “persecuted Palestinians from Gaza”, Chinese anti-abortion commies allowed to be free to have as many babies as they want, or how much better off the millions of Mexican economic refugees they advocate for will be)
Feb 4, 2009 - 11:51 am 21. Laura:For Gawd sakes, who cares HOW the plague started, the point is that it is still around in 2009. For those liberals on this blog that don’t quite get it, Islam IS THE ENEMY because those that worship in this cult (and the moderates are scared sh-tless to come out)have declared so over and over ad nauseum. What part of Death to American don’t you get?
Feb 4, 2009 - 1:57 pm 22. Oscar the Grump:Cedarfart,
I’m amazed that you are able to turn any discussion into a slam on the Israelis or to cast doubt on the Jews. May your Jewish doctor get a cramp in his hand while operating on you.
Quit pushing your agenda its really getting old.
Feb 4, 2009 - 2:20 pm 23. Rubicon:My supposition is probably wrong, & will surely be attacked by some, BUT. Apparently even those who convert to Islam think violence against women is acceptable & should be the order of the day. Perhaps we missed something in our translations of the Quran? Maybe there is something in it that permits such violence & we simply have not figured this out yet?
Feb 4, 2009 - 2:52 pm 24. e:Obviously State & the CIA have some serious rethinking to do on how they vet those they assign to responsible positions. Or is it that this man simply adopted the lifestyle of those others who practice this religion?
Obama almost apologized to Muslims for “wrongs”
‘we’ have done to them. Many I heard from were extremely upset by that assertion. “We” have NOT done nothing to Muslims that justifies the murderous rampages terrorists around the world have mounted on civilized society everywhere.
In the course of everyday happenings around the world, apparently some Muslims did not get what they wanted. We know Muslims are convinced the middle east belongs to them & we know they believe they should be allowed to destroy Israel
& to murder any & every Jew they can.
Unless one practices revisionist history, the middle east does not belong to Muslims. As for any who think they should be allowed to eviscerate any society, that is unacceptable to decent human beings.
Wrongs, if one is keeping track, do not justify indiscriminate attacks on any & all to get even.
In all my years, it has been obvious everyone is trying valiantly to come up with a solution so Palestinian Muslims & Israeli’s can live side by side peacefully. All sorts of efforts have been made. Its not like people are not trying to be reasonable & make accommodations.
One has to want peace & want to live in peace, for peace to be possible. Constantly attacking demonstrates one side does not want peace & it also demonstrates one side will commit almost any atrocity for their cause.
While many thought America’s image would improve with Obama, that was simply wishful thinking of those who would appease the alligator, hoping it will eat them last! Any who thought Obama’s election would change our image around the world & especially in Muslim lands, were smoking some really good stuff when they convinced themselves of this. The only way we could possibly change our image among some, would be to surrender all of our cultural values & to submit to a religion & quasi legal system that many of us find repulsive.
All we now have in Algeria, is more of the same. America will be blamed, no one will look at the connection to Islam, and we will continue to be described by the unreasonable, as “the great Satan.”
Ho hum!
I think the course of action with Andrew Warren is pretty clear. Maximum sentence in a Federal prison (after a trial of course). I pondered letting the Algerians try this guy, but he knows too much not to be watched.
If this guy doesn’t go away for a long time I’m going to lose that last modicum of respect I’ve been keeping in reserve for Pres. Obama.
Feb 4, 2009 - 3:12 pm 25. cedarford:Oscar the Grump:
Cedarfart,
I’m amazed that you are able to turn any discussion into a slam on the Israelis or to cast doubt on the Jews. May your Jewish doctor get a cramp in his hand while operating on you.
Quit pushing your agenda its really getting old.
My comments were directed at the poster bringing up Jonathan Pollard, not you.
As for my agenda getting old, no…..American media is now opening up, and we are just now awakening to the agenda – not of me – but of the Zionists – and now heading where most other nations with even-handed media and politicians went decades ago.
Feb 4, 2009 - 5:15 pm 26. jw:Jonathan Pollard pleaded guilty to having given the government of Israel classified information about Iraq’s building nuclear facilities (under Saddam Hussein), information which the United States was supposed to have given Israel. Pollard argued for this without success. Israel’s was able to destroy Hussein’s nuclear facilities with this information.
Feb 4, 2009 - 6:27 pm 27. Bill N:Pollard pleaded guilty in order not to jeopardize intelligence information being made public in a court process. He was supposed to have served 4 to 5 years, for having giving intelligence to a friendly power, but was instead condemned to life imprisonment on the say-so of Casper Weinberg. What was in this memo has never been revealed, and Weinberg has taken the secret to the grave. His sentence is unprecedented. Checkout websites on the Jonathan Pollard case.
Cedarford:
We need to be sure we don’t do the terrorists’ work for them, as does the MSM, by sensationalizing a story to panic people. I mentioned in my original post that a plague epidemic in modern America would be a hard sell (very unlikely). You chose to disagree. I don’t think you made your point and I stand by my original assessment. What you described the Japanese doing to the Chinese in WWII, awful as it was, was simply another form of aerial bombardment, without the physical damage. If, as you say, it devastated the Chinese, remember that they had no antibiotics back then. In order for there to be an *epidemic*, the disease needs to become self-propagating after the initial attack. Let’s see what would happen in today’s America if Al Qaeda were to spray a few million infected fleas over a selected target:
First of all, that target could be either urban or rural. If rural, the most likely outcome would be many infected mammalian vermin (rats, skunks, squirrels, etc.) We already have an endemic population of infected vermin and an increase in their numbers (even a huge one) would most likely result only in an increase in dead vermin. We no longer allow them live with us as did the people in the middle ages and they cannot infect humans unless they get close enough to pass fleas. When was the last time you were bitten by a flea in your house? Thirty years and 6 months for me – when I first moved in. Four cans of fumigant took care of that. Admittedly I own no pets, but even so I don’t see this as something to cause panic, so let’s limit our discussion to an urban attack.
If the infected fleas were disseminated over a large urban area, they would infect three important types of victim: humans, pets (chiefly cats and dogs), and wild vermin (e.g., rats, mice and ground squirrels – I don’t know about bats, that would be a complication, I admit). Now then, if a human is infected he or she will have to come down with the disease – not all will. Plague in humans takes three forms, all caused by the same bacterium, Y. pestis: Bubonic, where the bacteria are limited to the lymph nodes, causing dark, black-looking swellings (buboes – hence the common names, bubonic or black plague); septicemic, where the bacteria have invaded the bloodstream; and pneumonic, where the bacteria have invaded the lungs. Only in the last case are humans able to directly infect others. I don’t recall any stories of humans infecting other humans via the flea route. Bubonic plague is almost 100% curable via modern antibiotics such as streptomycin and the tetracyclines. Septicemic plague is much more lethal and must be treated early and aggressively. Pneumonic is usually fatal. However, to get pneumonic plague, one must be infected by a human suffering from it. Such a person is VERY sick, so no chance of a flu-like epidemic – the infected people are home in bed dying (presumably in modern America, quarantined), not walking to work coughing on people as they go . The other way to get pneumonic is to first get bubonic, by a flea bite, then have it progress to the pneumonic stage. Who, once he sees black buboes, would not seek medical treatment and instead let the disease progress? Therefore, I maintain, if people get plague by a Japanese-style attack in America today we would still see no epidemic, and not very many deaths, either. If terrorists are determined to harm us, I would prefer they waste their time with plague and not cultivate caster-bean plants for the ricin.
Which brings us to pets. In this case a dog, say, is infected by a terrorist flea. The dog eventually gets sick and infects all of its other fleas. The dog dies and the fleas jump ship to the nearest warm meal, the pet’s owner. This will take some time, however. Presumably the biowarfare attack would be recognized before that happens and all cats and dogs in the area would get a flea dip (or shot dead if found loose) and antibiotics if they appear sick. Again, no epidemic.
Finally, the other mammals that get bit by the terrorist fleas. Presume that all the rats in your house are infected, as are the mice, and the squirrels eating your garden produce. How many fleas from those sources bite you on a daily basis? Their fleas could bite your pet, sure, but then we are back to the previous scenario. Nada.
Therefore, in order to cause me to be concerned over a possible terrorist plague attack, the following would all have to occur:
1) The terrorists would have to weaponize the pestis bacteria to resist antibiotics. No need to do this for viruses, for which no cure is yet known, so why waste time with bacteria?
2) They would have to increase the lifetime of a blocked flea. Fleas are not infective until the bacteria have multiplied in their gut, eventually choking (blocking) their esophagus. They infect by biting their victim then vomiting hundreds of bacteria in the wound in their ravenous attempt to feed, which they cannot because the bacteria have plugged their throat. A flea must be infected, then allowed enough time to become blocked, then released before they die from the infection – days at the most. Not like malaria mosquitoes who remain infective for weeks or months. I would rather the terrorists waste their time broadcasting fleas infected with plague than mosquitoes infected with yellow fever (for which there is no antibiotic), wouldn’t you?
3) They would have to come up with weaponized normal fleas that can spread the disease despite insecticides and disseminate millions of these along with the blocked ones. Now then, fleas are not mobile, like mosquitoes. If they do not encounter a potential host, they climb a grass stalk or something and wait until one walks by. They can jump a yard or more, but if no host gets close enough a major attack with insecticide should take care of them, therefore the need to weaponize the fleas to render this impossible. If the terrorists can do that I’d rather they would, instead of doing it to mosquitoes (yellow fever – no cure; malaria; other nasties – FAR worse than plague, despite its fearsome reputation – earned in the bad old days, now gone forever). OR
The terrorists can merely announce they intend to attack with the devastating (by reputation only) BLACK PLAGUE, and let the MSM do the rest. We on this blog must not do the same. Nor should we play down a threat if it is real. If I’m wrong with the above, please have at me! Cedarford, the ball is in your court.
Feb 4, 2009 - 6:49 pm 28. Oscar the Grump:cedarfart,
Let’s see if I got this straight. Your idea of a balanced media is to take the world back to 1939. There is no balanced media. Most of the stories coming across the wire are anti-Israel, that’s nine out ten stories.
Its to the point where news casters even are complicit in creating news stories which are totally biased and false. There is an agenda here and you’re fool enough to buy into it. You would have made a great Nazi.
I have a suggestion for you. Since you hate the Zionists so much, go over there and help your buddies in the Hamas. I’m sure they would enjoy a pompous fool like you. I hope that you are Moslem because they might not take kindly to you otherwise. Just imagine it, you could dig in the ground, or you could help set up rocket launching sites, or fire a mortar. Go show us your convictions. Go, go!
In the mean time don’t let those fleas get you.
Feb 4, 2009 - 7:24 pm 29. Oscar the Grump:Bill N.
Feb 4, 2009 - 7:33 pm 30. Oscar the Grump:The exact number of people who died of the plague is unknown. Total deaths of Chinese during the war range between 25 and 50 million. Most of the deaths were due to starvation and illness. Japan’s use of bio-warfare was effective. Just how effective is impossible to know.
Bill N.
Feb 4, 2009 - 7:36 pm 31. Gloria:Are you sure that they have nothing for yellow fever? They have stuff for dengue and hemoragic fever. Aren’t they related?
Please pay attention to Bill N, #27 & #1. Almost all dogs in North America, the most likely carrier to fleas into homes, are on Program, Advantage or other once-a-month flea pills that kill fleas. Even if an urban or suburban dog comes in contact with a rodent or squirrel or racoon or coyote carrying fleas, it is unlikely that the dog will transmit those fleas to a human nowadays.
You do the work of the terrorists if you convey erroneous information to the public and scare people for no good reason. Scare tactics simply give power to terrorists.
I belong to the Middle Class. I too want security for my family and myself. But it becomes crazy to live in a world where writers, newspaper reporters, blogists, etc., make their living from scaring people for no good reason. Unscientific articles have to be refuted. I am angry that a website I greatly respect has someone writing articles that are unscientific and therefore stupid. There may be biological threats we should worry about, the the plague is not one of them.
Feb 4, 2009 - 8:16 pm 32. gcblues:Thomas
i am not and have never been far left. something i am sure you accuse everyone not agreeing with you of.
you have a rather silly view of censorship.
this is a moderated privatly owned media.
there are many many things reasonabley banned here for various reasons i will not go into.
simply replace islam with the name of anothern religion, and many of those posts here would be pulled. reasonably so.
PJM has no reason to publish moronic sweeping stupid hateful remarks about all of any group or religion. why are not moronic statements like that pulled is a reasonable question. the same is true of all sorts of threats, racist comments, ethnocentric hatred. etc. none of that load contributes squat to the discussion. my understanding from oreily is that KOS allows anything, i would not know, never been there. however, i would not put up with that either.
Feb 4, 2009 - 8:32 pm 33. Bill N:Oscar:
The Chinese and Japanese that died of plague in WWII did so largely because there was no cure. Today there is one, therefore the WWII experience has little, if any, relevance to the situation today.
“Hemorrhagic fever” is a generic term for any fever that also causes bleeding from ruptured blood vessels, usually subdermal resulting in angry-looking spots on the skin (petechaie). Dengue is a hemorrhagic fever, as is yellow fever, ebola and a quantity of others. Their cure and/or treatment depends on which one you’ve got. Dengue and yellow fever are both caused by viruses. We have no cure for any viral disease – none. All we can do is prevent you from getting the individual disease (vaccination) or treat the symptoms if you do get one and hope the body can cure itself. In the case of the bacteria-caused black plague we have several substances (antibiotics) that are poisonous to bacteria but not to humans. Thus we can inject one or more of them, kill the bacteria and not hurt the human. Kill the bacteria and you cure the disease. We have nothing yet that can kill a virus and not its host, therefore no cure.
In the case of a bio-terror attack, unless we have a year’s notice, it is almost certain that we don’t have enough vaccine already in stock to do much, therefore that “cure” (actually a preventative) is not available. That leaves treating the symptoms, preventing a secondary bacterial infection, and hoping for the best. Note, please, modern medicine has come a long way since WWII and such palliative treatment is not to be sneezed at, but me, I’d rather come down with the plague where there is a definite chance of a cure.
Feb 4, 2009 - 8:39 pm 34. cedarford:Bill N – Therefore, I maintain, if people get plague by a Japanese-style attack in America today we would still see no epidemic, and not very many deaths, either. If terrorists are determined to harm us, I would prefer they waste their time with plague and not cultivate caster-bean plants for the ricin……The terrorists can merely announce they intend to attack with the devastating (by reputation only) BLACK PLAGUE, and let the MSM do the rest. We on this blog must not do the same. Nor should we play down a threat if it is real. If I’m wrong with the above, please have at me! Cedarford, the ball is in your court.
Bill N, I’m partially on the same page with you and partially not. I agree that hysterical “what if???” scenarios and media overhype are to be taken with a strong dose of salt. The same with people dripping with fear that demand to be “perfectly safe” and scream that just one incident in the future where terrorist kills Americans because “Our Heroes Failed to be Perfect Everytime, and the Terrorists got Lucky Once and therefore – The Evildoers Win! Game over, man!”. They are a pack of idiots. Nations survive piddling casualties like 9/11 or even serious level ones on the level the Soviets and Poles had in WWII, or the carnage of Tamurlane.
9/11 as Ground Zero? More like “Ground Pinprick” compared to Dresden, Tokyo-Yokohama firebombed Nagasaki A-Bombed or ancient Carthage being eradicated or Samarkind wiped out by Mongols. As for “1st Responder Heroes” at 9/11 or into the future – they actually saved precious few people and served mainly as cleanup to prep 9/11 corpses for the year and a half -long “Mournathon” America indulged in.
At the same time, many wise people said 9/11 was a failure in imagination. A failure – willing to underestimate enemy because that makes factotums look better while craven little US citizens demand perfect safety and want so deeply to believe that Muslims are all harmless morons only able to come up with the crudest strategies that “the Heroes” will save us from.
The truth is that many Muslims are smart. Very smart. Best nuke incore flux instrument engineer I met was a Leb Shiite who had family members fighting Israeli invaders into Lebanon in what later became Hezbollah.
And that the truth is that plague and anthrax spore are ideally suited for use as smart weaponry in high traffic areas – not like Jap bombs of the stuff that had design errors and wasn’t delivered precisely.
9/11 was trivial compared to what the imagination of a few intellectually gifted Muslims are capable of. One pound of anthrax spores walked and scattered through JFK airport.
Two Jihadis equipped with 40 “apple juice” cardboard drink containers each loaded with 40,000 fleas with resistant plague scattered all along BART.
The good news is smart Muslims opposed to the USA or it’s support of Israel and its Settlements or other harms inflicted know that very serious consequences would happen if they did it…and it is better to bleed the US financially in endless wars or endless spending on “what if???” so taxpayers pay (for example) for a 300,000 dollar “evildoer bomb disposal device” for a backwoods Tennessee town of 8,000.
Nor are “miracle antibiotics” the answer for biowar. Even with them, by the time scared mindless US civilians know they are at risk after an attack – medical people will treat 19 uninfected for every one real infected, and of those, antibiotics and intensive care may only yield a 50% survival rate.
***************************
Oscar the grump – Yeah, Yeah…any American that questions Israel’s actions is an anti-Semite and Nazi. Just like the rest of the world.
We’ve heard the same smears from Jews directed at the rest of the world for 60 years….as Israel’s once wide support internationally has eroded.
Way to win friends and influence people, dude.
*****************
jw:
Jonathan Pollard pleaded guilty to having given the government of Israel classified information about Iraq’s building nuclear facilities (under Saddam Hussein), information which the United States was supposed to have given Israel. Pollard argued for this without success. Israel’s was able to destroy Hussein’s nuclear facilities with this information.
Pollard pleaded guilty in order not to jeopardize intelligence information being made public in a court process. He was supposed to have served 4 to 5 years, for having giving intelligence to a friendly power, but was instead condemned to life imprisonment on the say-so of Casper Weinberg.
Unlike the whitewashing JW is trying for the Zionist Traitor Pollard, the main charge is that he broke laws carrying a life sentence to steal such compartmented level secrets to ANY other country or execution (in time of war)to an enemy..and then his Israeli handlers did not help his case for mercy by selling his product to the Soviet Union for cold cash, or more Soviet Jew visas.
The scumbag also remains unrepenetant, saying his highest loyalty was always with Israel over America. And various Israelis have also gone the scumbag route, demanding this or that high American official back Pollard’s pardon or they would see to it AIPAC destroyed them with money pumped to rival candidates or through some blackmail hyped by “their people” in US media.
The result of this heavy-handedness has been to make US officials in 3 Administrations even more reluctant to give the traitor up to Israel.
Israel is not the 51st state nor is it even considered a “friendly ally”. We have no defense treaties with it making it an “ally”, Israel has never fought alongside us in any war. Israelis operate, according to the FBI, the 3rd largest spy network in the USA behind China and Russia. Currently, they are barred from much of our technology development after we caught them selling defense secrets to the Chinese.
Pollard will rot for many more years, well deserved years.
Feb 4, 2009 - 10:23 pm 35. Tinfoil Hatter:34. cedarford:
“Israel is not the 51st state nor is it even considered a “friendly ally”. We have no defense treaties with it making it an ‘ally…’”
Incorrect. Israel is a Major Non-NATO Ally.
Google “List of Major Non-NATO Allies.”
Feb 5, 2009 - 10:07 am 36. Bug Eye Guy:Everyone grab your banjos and guitars too.
Its Hee Haw time. A little quick step please.
Andrew Warren is a spy
He works for the C.I.A.
Did his slueth work in N. Africa
Was stationed in Alger…I….A
Everyone stop your drinkin
set down your jar of booze
This little ditty was in the paper
This little ditty was in the news
and Cedarford still hates the Jewwwwws
Andrew loved Islam,
doesn’t like any gay
drugged his Moslem girlfriends,
just so he could have his way
Everyone stop your drinkin,
set down your jars of booze
This little ditty was in the paper
this little ditty was in the news
and Cedarford still hates the Jewwwwws
He got yanked back from there
got yanked back yesterday
Though his Moslem brothers are angry
there’s no way they can make him pay
Everyon stop your drinkin
set down your jar of booze
this little ditty was in the paper
this little ditty was in the news
and Cedarford still hate the Jewwwws
He was trackin old Al Queda
found them in some hay
they was doin some germ warfare
What exactly none can say
Everyone stop your drinkin
Feb 5, 2009 - 1:45 pm 37. reggie:set down your jar of booze
This little ditty was in the paper
this little ditty was in the news
and Cedarford still hates the Jewwwws
Bug Eye Guy, Do you accompany yourself on a banjo, do you tap your toes, do you have a fine voice when you sing?
“Cedarford still hates the Jews”. I do think “C” twithes and writhes and gets all excited when he squeezing in his Virulent antisemitism between the fleas and plague. He is an ugly man and I hope he hasn’t had his polio vaccines developed by two Jews.,Salk and Sabin. If he has, those two Jewish scientists should have required the ANTI- ANTI- SEMITE oath(Similar to the Pollard Oath he joyously bespeaks) before they injected his snake-like hide with the vaccine. You Cedarford might have ended up in an Iron Lung if not for the Jews you so disparage.
Feb 5, 2009 - 3:10 pm 38. Oscar the Grump:Cedarfart,
You sure are getting a lot of attention, and a song. I’m really impressed.
I’ll take your Pollard and raise you one Hansen. Pollard was tricked into confessing and double crossed by the US government. I’m not going to judge the government for what they did to him. I’m a loyal American and that’s my first love no matter what. Hansen wasn’t a Jew and he compromised the entire intelligence structure of the USA to the Russians.
He got what I call a slap on the wrist and will be free within 12 years.
I think he should have been shot. There is a real aspect of anti-Semitism involved when a Jew gets sentenced. There was no comparison in the magnitude of the crimes, Hansen’s was greater, but his sentence was lesser.
“and Cedarford still hates the Jews”
Feb 5, 2009 - 6:06 pm 39. cedarford:Tinfoil Hatter:
34. cedarford:
“Israel is not the 51st state nor is it even considered a “friendly ally”. We have no defense treaties with it making it an ‘ally…’”
Incorrect. Israel is a Major Non-NATO Ally.
Google “List of Major Non-NATO Allies.”
Oh yeah, that list! Of countries we have defense treaties outside NATO with (Thailand, Australia, Japan, S Korea) and a nice little list of countries with effective lobbies so they get “favored access to US weapons”. That is all the MNNA List signifies.
Besides the above-mentioned, the list has Egypt, Pakistan, Argentina!, Morocco, Kuwait, Israel, and Jordan….all our equally beloved allies, according to the List. It used to have Iran listed.
***************
Oscar the Grump:
Cedarfart,
You sure are getting a lot of attention, and a song. I’m really impressed.
Not as impressed as I am with smarmy jerks such as yourself who spent 50 years smearing Europeans as “anti-Semites” and find the fruits of such smears is most Europeans so denounced became more sympathetic to the Palestinians. Same is happening now on US campuses – Jews ranting that any criticism of Israel makes a student an “Islamofascist”, and as a reaction to being repeatedly slimed by Jews, liberals and progressives are finding the Muslim Student’s Associations a more congenial group to associate with than with guilt-tripping, accusatory Jews..
At one point, 2/3rds of nations sympathized with the Jews more than the Palestinians. After decades of arrogant Zionist self-righteousness and being caught in lie after lie – the list of sympathizers is down to just one country – and the populace is becoming more wary.
Not a great track record for your side, Grump. Keep it up.
Feb 5, 2009 - 9:12 pm 40. njcommuter:Guys, this kind of p—ing contest belongs on the Daily Kos or the Huffington Post, not PJM. You don’t advance your case or our cause by name-calling, ad-hoc’ing, or frequent fisking.
Feb 6, 2009 - 12:03 am 41. Pat:Gloria at #31, your post and others here provide some valid reasons to dismiss the threat of bubonic plague. I’m glad, and I agree that panic-mongering is wrong.
But it is still healthy that journalists write what they think is important, and that readers correct any errors. Journalists are not infallible, but the good ones will be scrupulous. And even wrong ideas can be useful once in a while -as differentiation that reinforces the true ideas.
In this case, I also think that a CSU-Sacramento biology graduate-turned-jihadist who is deliberately working on biological weapons is newsworthy. It tells me that I need to hold our government accountable for protecting us from such true bio-weapon threats as might arise.
And closing Gitmo and appeasing Islamic TV audiences are *not* steps in that direction!
Feb 6, 2009 - 3:12 am 42. Oscar the Grump:Cedarfart,
Feb 6, 2009 - 7:28 am 43. Blackwater:Which university are you referring to. I’d like to know? Tell me that and I’ll answer you.
I don’t understand it. Why do we release people or allow them to move about freely if they’re radical islamists and also have knowledge about weapons of mass destruction? They should all be eliminated by the CIA. I don’t care if the international community gets pissed off by it. This is ridiculous.
Feb 6, 2009 - 2:35 pm 44. Tcobb:To Cedarford and Oscar the Grump–
Feb 6, 2009 - 4:53 pm 45. Oscar the Grump:I have always been a fan of Israel, but I am a citizen of the United States, and that is where my loyalty lies. When it comes to spies and traitors I have no sympathy. For what it is worth, I think that both Hansen and Pollard should both have had their lives terminated by a .45 slug plowing through their rotten little heads.
Tcobb
Feb 6, 2009 - 6:19 pm 46. nadadhimmi:I agree.
I think the purpose of the plague work was to induce pneumonic plague in 1 or more individuals, to spread it as an airborn pathogen in airports and large metro areas in the US. These carriers would pass security because they carry no metallic or chemical weapons, just yersinia pestis in their lungs. Pneumonic plague is not quite as contagious as flu, but almost in an enclosed environment. Remember, until just a few years ago, the death rate from pneumonic plague was 100%. This shit will kill you really, really dead, fast. Think of a contagious, weaponised Anthrax, spread by airborn transmission from person to person, and you’ve got an idea of what they want. Garden variety bubonic plague spreads slowly and can be killed by antibiotics, the pneumonic version scares the shit out of pathologists and epidemiologists.
Feb 6, 2009 - 9:21 pm 47. BERLET98:Rape works both ways. Consider this:
The very word “rape” is supremely ugly, worse by far than the “N-word,” conjuring images of defenseless, vulnerable girls and women being violated by some bestial excuse of a human being.
The merry, marauding murderers at al-qaeda have taken rape a few steps down the slippery slope of human depradation and now employ the act as a terrorist tool.
It’s easy to visualize al-qaeda leaders conferencing in some filthy hovel, looking all the world like dirty demons gathered around a dung fire and planning how best to execute their “holy war,” according to the dictates of the Qur’an and their long-dead prophet, Mohammed.
(Feel free to translate the following into Arabic and Farsi:)
“My brother, Ahmed. May Allah be with you!”
“And with you, Osama, and may Allah’s light forever shine upon you and may…”
“Cease the infidel drivel, Ahmed, or I will tear that tongue out of your camel-breath mouth and serve it baked in hummus to your whore of a mother. We are here to plan, not to speak in great words of praise!”
“May Allah strike me dead on this sand covered floor, O, great Osama, if I ever offend you! But, yes, we are here to plan. Allahu Akhbar! And may Allah keep you safe and great…”
“You test my patience, Ahmed. You do recall what I did to your vile snake of a sister…
(Read the rest of this article at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=805)
Feb 6, 2009 - 11:20 pm 48. Bill N:Nada…:
The current morbidity for pneumonic plague is still greater than 96%. I agree, it’s bad stuff. However, people suffering from it are VERY sick. It would be a very, very, very rare individual who could be infectious with pneumonic plague and be able to navigate in public without attracting enough attention to invite interdiction. All we would have to do is assiduously avoid anyone obviously sick or somebody in a burka and a wheelchair with an attendant. Good advice in any case, if only to avoid the flu and/or an ordinary bomb.
I want to stress my main point again: While it is quite possible to launch a bio-terror attack using plague-blocked fleas, it is even more of a worry for weaponized anthrax (already tried in the U.S. – no need to develop a brand new weapon), sarin (already tried in Japan – no need to develop a brand new weapon), hijacked airliners (ditto), snipers (ditto), suicide bombers (ditto), IED’s (ditto, ditto, ditto), all of which have already killed about as many people as an attack of plague fleas could be expected to do. The advantage of using plague is the enhanced terror aspect – because if its fearsome history, the mere mention of its name terrorizes people much more that the actual disease. In this the MSM’s panic-mongering does the terrorists’ work for them, by making people believe a black-death quality epidemic is upon them. THIS WON’T HAPPEN!!! Therefore, I invite Al Qaeda to continue to waste time working on plague – they’ll kill fewer that way. Tell me they acquired some smallpox samples from the Russians and I’ll panic. Not until.
Feb 6, 2009 - 11:53 pm 49. Oscar the Grump:Bill N
Feb 7, 2009 - 12:55 pm 50. Bill N:Every contagious disease has a period where it is not symptomatic. Isn’t it possible to have a carrier transport such an illness without apparent signs visible. Its like a time bomb isn’t it? Can a individual who is still asymptomatic be contagious? There are other diseases out there that are contagious. Can an individual be infected with say MERSA and be used as a time bomb or some of the antibiotic resistant forms of strep?
Oscar,
Feb 7, 2009 - 11:56 pm 51. Oscar the Grump:It is certainly true that for diseases which have been “designed” to be transmitted by breath, such as flu, there is a period where the victim is infective but asymptomatic. This almost has to be for the disease organism to propagate. However, plague was “designed” to be transmitted via vectors (rats and fleas). It invades the lungs almost by chance. It doesn’t *need* to be transmitted by breath. Therefore there is no need to keep the victim ignorant of his infective status for any length of time. In fact, pneumonic plague is rapidly debilitating and lethal. This is certainly true for the normal progression: bubonic to septicemic to pneumonic. Such a victim is bedridden at the septicemic stage (which can last for as little as 24 hours before death. Such a victim is a danger only to caregivers (direct, close contact). For the others, who get pneumonic plague directly from another pneumonic victim, there is certainly a period of time while the bacteria are multiplying in the lungs before the new victim gets sick. At first there are not enough bacteria to cause a cough. Then there are. This quickly becomes a racking cough – not good. At this stage the victim is VERY dangerous. Then the victim becomes too sick to circulate and becomes dangerous only to caregivers. The disease acquired in this way can take as long as 2-4 days to kill. However, the period between the first cough and incapacitation is very short. Also, to be susceptible, the general population has to be unaware of the danger. How long can the general population remain ignorant? It is treatable in the very early stage (say within 24 hours of exposure) and simple precautions, like wearing a surgical mask, are effective prevention. A population at risk can avoid an epidemic by wearing such a mask, taking antibiotics at the first sign of lung distress, quarantining victims, taking a week vacation and remaining indoors, and so forth. In this, plague is very similar to inhalation anthrax, it kills too quickly to be a serious epidemic risk (so long as people know what to do). It can be a major one-time mass killer, but so were a couple of Boeing jetliners.
Bill N
Feb 8, 2009 - 8:31 pm 52. Pat:Thank ypu for your insight. I would love to take a Micro-Biology course from you.
Hmmm….Another black rapist? Police recently arrested another black man named John Floyd Thomas Jr. for a long string of rape/murders targeting white women. If fact, police are saying this black man is the Worst EVER Serial killer in LA. Lets see how the mainstream media buries this one. No hate crime being charged either.
Apr 30, 2009 - 9:02 pm