Pajamas Media

141 Comments

1. Pragmatist:

Carol , Unfortunately like MOST Americans you get it completely wrong. Thousands of Americans “died to help keep Britain free from Hitler” you write which is absolute rubbish. The threat of invasion of UK disappeared in 1940 with the victory of the RAF over the Luftwaffe and the Germans thus turning their backs on UK and invading RUSSIA. Ahh Russia the country that REALLY beat Germany losing MILLIONS and MILLIONS (about 25 Million I believe ) in the process. Not the paltry two or three hundred thousand America lost.
Now I agree we MIGHT not have defeated Germany on our own but with the Empire and Russia we would have succeeded in the long run. What about America well in WW1 you sat by until 1917 when most of the fighting had been done and the war was just about over and you got very RICH by selling to BOTH SIDES before then.
Now lets look at WW11 well you sold to BOTH SIDES again getting EVEN RICHER. Then in 1941 THREE YEARS AFTER the War started you were FORCED to join in by Japan attacking YOU and Germany fulfilling its obligations to Japan by declaring War on YOU. So America came to no ones rescue it was FORCED on you by Japan and Germany.

WW1 and WW11 were very good for America financially WW1 dragged you out of recession and made you rich WW11 consolidated that wealth and made America obscenely rich and you reinforced that after WW11 by FORCING the Europeans to break up their Empires so that they could not compete with YOUR financial EMPIRE.

So please forgive us poor Brits and Europeans ( YOU took all our money) for not rolling over and heaping praise on you avaricious YANKS.

Oct 7, 2009 - 4:58 am 2. vonschtead:

A number of years ago, I saw a letter that proposed America withdraw its troops worldwide, except for trusted allies, and put them on our borders. There was a huge outcry by many “friendly” Europeans that this shouldn’t be done. Why? Because their own self-interest said “American troops protect us at Americas’ expense, letting us use our money for more important things than freedom”. Regrettably, I think much of Europe has willfully forgotten America’s VOLUNTARY sacrifice in both wars. They forgot things like the Marshall Plan. When arguing with a few German friends, they bragged how wonderful the rail system is in Germany, compared to the US (I agree). But they were offended when I reminded them that their “New” system was only possible due to American aid post-WWII. I reminded them that if the rest of Europe had its’ way, Germany would have been permitted no technology higher than a horse-drawn cart.
Sadly, much of America’s youth has forgotten to look at the real history of the past century, and much of Europe has seemed to do the same.

As for Israel, I’m not Jewish, but I could not help but support the only outpost of civilization left in the entire mid-east. Possibly if the Islamo-Arabs and their kin move away from tribalism, they might join the rest of the civilized world. But, to be honest, I’m not too hopeful of that.

Oct 7, 2009 - 5:48 am 3. Mark:

Dear Pragmatist you are correct that the German army could not cross into Dover. The German navy would have simply starved to death the British Isles. Yeah, the USA did nothing to save the British Empire. Well….there was the Lend Lease program, Yanks in the RAF, American destroyers escorting American Libery ships carrying American raw supplies, ammo, gas, troops, tanks, planes , trucks , candy for British children, etc squared. The Royal Navy with a very proud history ended WW2 in second place to the American navy. Without the assistance of America the Royal Navy would haved ended in last alone with Occupied Europe.And yes we helped Stalin as well(sic).

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:24 am 4. pelaut:

Thank you, Carol, for doing what MOST Americans never do: Standing Up.

Not so dear ‘Lord’ Heseltine: I grew up an orphan because of your rotten war, then I was taxed to support your delusional post-war ‘adjustments’ to your European social experiments of the 1930’s whose failure brought on the war. Next you backed off your American-supported socialist experiments just a hair, and now the idiots of my country mimick you again with your failed NHS. I lived and worked in Europe for 10 years, including rust bucket Britain. I know you well. You never treated me with anything but contempt, despite the technology transfer I and others gave you. Screw you!

You think you gave the world John Locke? BS! Your Enlightenment glories all emmigrated. What you gave the world was the horror of Karl Marx and Engels.
Thanks a lot, ‘Lord’ Heseltine!

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:32 am 5. Joe:

Thanks for a great article, enumerating some of the things that truly make America great, in fact, the greatest country in the world! Our apologizing president would do well to remember some of these things instead of running all over the world with his sophomoric whining about what a bad bunch we are!

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:33 am 6. HARRY:

America put an end to a thousand years of European tribal bloodletting and integrated Europe into an international trading system that has given Europe and Asia unprecedented prosperity and peace.

We did it DESPITE the Europeans, and we did it, in part, by breaking up their oppressive colonial Empires. I doubt if India would have remained in the British Empire anyway. The British and other Empires were outmoded economic systems that guaranteed warfare, not prevented it.

Most of this was devised by Franklin Roosevelt, who learned from Wilson’s failures at the end of WWI, and used America’s power ruthlessly to build the post-war road.

As Donald Rumsfeld has observed, there is OLD Europe (the degenerate, pacififist UK elites being a prime example) and new Europe (especially POLAND), who know the difference between freedom and slavery, and wants American (not European) guarantees.

America is a force for good in the world. No one is perfect, but we have done better for mankind than anyone.

By the way, the reason the British never developed a personal computer was because they couldn’t figure out a way to make it leak oil.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:41 am 7. ricpic:

How much you wanna bet Lord Heseltine is not all that crazy about Magna Carta?

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:54 am 8. Michael:

“If you want to be helped in your darkest hours, Lord Heseltine, don’t insult your special friends”

Something you Americans ought to consider as well.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:58 am 9. whyamInotsurprised?:

#1 Pragmatist – What a weird name for someone who is full of sour grapes! Never mind that ALL of Europe let Hitler arm up right under your own noses and dragged the rest of the world into a war, but until current times the EU won’t even police their own backyard. Leave it to the U.S. to deal with all your messes.

Go cry in your piss warm beer!

Oct 7, 2009 - 7:16 am 10. Scott:

Something you Americans ought to consider as well.

Well most of the conservatives were appalled by Obama’s treatment of the Prime Minister and Queen. We were further upset by his treatment of Israel, Poland, and Czechoslovakia.

Oct 7, 2009 - 7:59 am 11. Marie Claude:

“The German navy would have simply starved to death the British Isles.”

there wasn’t a significant german Navy, this was one of the requests made in Versailles treaty, that Germany couldn’t rebuilt her fleet. But it didn’t prevent Germany to maufacture Ubots, that attacked ships that were crossing the Atlantic.

Pragmatist,

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:14 am 12. Paden Cash:

Here is the thing that I don’t understand. Why do Americans revel in their European heritage? For most of our ancestors, immigrating to the new world, was escape. We were sent here as prisoners or religious exiles. Europe didn’t want us then and they do not like us now. If Obama wants to do something useful, he should close down every American military base in Europe. Bring our folks home. The State dept. should make it clear to American tourists that Europe is no longer a safe destination for us. That would be a good start.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:14 am 13. Jason S:

There is a stark contrast between British “conservatives” and American conservatives. The British version has been dealing within the confines of their politics, which has embraced the nanny state for years now. Whether than arguing for or against socialized medicine, for instance, the argument in the UK is instead about which party will make socialized medicine more efficient. Brits have already succumbed, long ago, to the notion that nanny knows best. Daniel Hannan would be considered a fairly mainstream conservative in the US, but is considered by many so-called conservatives in the UK to be a knuckle-dragging right-wing nutjob. For an idea of how far left conservatives in the UK have drifted, one need only to read the comments following Telegraph editorials. God help this planet if we American conservatives ever follow suit.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:16 am 14. David W. Lincoln:

Given that the United States is exporting more today to countries that have concluded free trade deals with them, as compared to before those deals were
signed, a lot of chutzpah is shown by those who cry “Anti-Americanism”.

Is it the fault of those who are buying more products made in the US that the US is in such rotten economic shape? I don’t think so.

So, keep that in mind.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:20 am 15. Old Soldier:

Pragmatist,

Sure you guys did most of the fighting prior to 1917 – with spectatcular incompetence. You are welcome for not allowing our troops to be used as replacements in poorly led French and British units. I’ll take Pershing over any of the aristocratic boobs who ran your losing efforts the first 3 years of the war.

As for WWII, sure the Germans would have left you alone after 1941. Once they had dispatched the Russians without our help, they would not have come back with rockects, missiles and jet aircraft.

Get over it. You used to have an empire. Now you are a crappy socilaist province of Europe.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:30 am 16. EscapeVelocity:

D. Lincoln,

Actually the US has exported its manufacturing base offshore steadily since WW2, with all those free trade agreements giving access to the US market….thus the European Miracle and the Asian Tigers, Japan and Germany, now China and India.

But enjoy your irrational spitefulness. Im sure all these people thankful for the prosperity and security that the US provides will not descend upon us like dogs when we are down. (sarcasm)

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:35 am 17. ak:

I wish someone would really debunk, piece by piece, the whole Noraid B.S. Who was really providing substantial logistical and materiel support to the IRA in the 1970s and 1980s? People passing a money jar around some bar in Boston? Or Europe’s favorite pity-project, the Palestinians?

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:36 am 18. Scott:

Get over it. You used to have an empire. Now you are a crappy socialist province of Europe.

Now, now, no need to rub salt in the wound. That Britain has gone more “Neville” than “Churchill” is truly a sad thing. Can you blame poor Pragmatist for trying to preserve an ounce of dignity? I mean they are marketing “stab-proof” knives in GB now…I’m sure all the criminals are rushing out to buy one at 30 or more pounds a piece.

I mourn for the the once great nation from whence my ancestors hailed. The nation that produced the Magna Carta which helped inspire the US Constitution, the steam and internal combustion engine, penicillin, and many other great things of the modern world. Sadly Germany, the other nation of my ancestors, has gone much the same route.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:51 am 19. Old Soldier:

ak – I saw the jars in the Boston bars – those bars lost my patronage for all time. But you are right, when an the IRA wanted to train people, they went to North Africa and/or the Middle East.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:56 am 20. michael:

As an Englishman, I would like to point out to Americans that “Lord” Heseltine is a member of a small long-discredited faction of the Tory party. His hero, Edward Heath was prime minister 1970-74 and reduced the UK to shambles. They are all EU fanatics and anti-American to boot. The only Heathite still active is Kenneth Clarke and many people, including me, will not be voting for the Tories because of Clarke. Heseltine spent years trying to destabilised Margaret Thatcher and when she fell from power in 1990, he was back in government. But not as Prime Minister.

As I have said before – Ms Gould mixes with the wrong people!

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:01 am 21. Anonymous:

Uhm, Pragmatist, Hitler never wanted to invade Britain because he hoped as fellow Anglo-Saxons you would see the error of your ways and either remain neutral while he ravaged Europe or join him in controlling it. As the niece od WWII veterans, you show typical Euro ignorance by refering to “paltry” losses of hundreds of thousands. My great uncle landed at and fought through Normandy and was never the same due to shell-shock. Russian losses through the war were due more to their inept and cynical leadership and German brutality to POW’s than anything else. My relatives could also give you a lesson on the sacrifices put on them by war-time rationing here in the states in order to send food and materiel to civilians and military men in your country. Your attitude just proves the old saw that “no good deed goes unpunished”.

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:03 am 22. Athena:

Uhm, Pragmatist, Hitler never wanted to invade Britain because he hoped as fellow Anglo-Saxons you would see the error of your ways and either remain neutral while he ravaged Europe or join him in controlling it. As the niece od WWII veterans, you show typical Euro ignorance by refering to “paltry” losses of hundreds of thousands. My great uncle landed at and fought through Normandy and was never the same due to shell-shock. Russian losses through the war were due more to their inept and cynical leadership and German brutality to POW’s than anything else. My relatives could also give you a lesson on the sacrifices put on them by war-time rationing here in the states in order to send food and materiel to civilians and military men in your country. Your attitude just proves the old saw that “no good deed goes unpunished”.

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:04 am 23. Blackwell:

Pragmatist #1 and mark #3:

You both are letting the divisive people set the tone for this discussion. You both sound like couple of ex-wives.

Americans have always liked the British for obvious and complex reasons, ranging from shared traditions to a recognition that unlike the French, the British have a backbone as they have repeatedly shown.

Pragmatist: Yes, we smile in private at some things British as you do about us (reading British war diaries is always an eye opener; Harold Nicholson can barely conceal his contempt for US serviceman–”inferior breeding” he says of them), but no mature person from either country counts any of this as anything but a few malcontents

Mark: The tired issue of past world wars is no issue at all, and the US has NO basis to criticize Britain: the Brits DID fight first and they DID hold out when they might well have made peace with Hitler and exposed us as the last man standing. That was a ballsy thing for a country of 45 million versus 70 million to do–we barely kept our draft alw alive at the time. They DID pass to us valuable data and devices, like radar (we were a decade behind), proper engines for fighters (the Roll-Merlin was used in the P-51-our own engines were pathetic) and they were on top of jets just after the germans whereas the US had no working model.

For holding out while countries like Belgium and France folded, the Brits will be remembered as history’s Athens.

Pragmatist: you have NO basis to nitpick the US either: Britain let things develop there to the point where a war was needed to handle what a small police force could have handled in 1936. Your man neville waved away FDR’s proposal–made twice–to convene in D.C. and talk things out in 1939. Churchill says that was idiocy by Chamberlin.

When the war started, there was a lot of dry rot on your end: Singapore and Trobuk were not lost as a result of anything the US failed to do. And while the US took some time to see the light, we took no more time than you did.

As for the money, please remember: while fighting in Europe and the Pacific (that took a bit of effort too), we sent vast amounts of oil, food and material to Britain and Russia as lend-lease that was never expected to be repaid and was not. We went deep in the hole too, you know.

Churchill put it best: there was glory enough for everyone.

The relationship will always be special. If you don’t think so, look around: see many other countries either of us will like as much? No way.

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:21 am 24. Marie Claude:

“You are welcome for not allowing our troops to be used as replacements in poorly led French and British units.”

Fortunately there was a Marechal Foch who coordinated all the troops, but Americans, while coming with “Lafayette nous voilà” weren’t fighting at the “very fronts”, that Brits, French, colonial troops from UK and France were directly occupying

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:27 am 25. JP49:

Well I was a mere kid when World War II happened and my dad was a pilot who fought in Italy. Italians didn’t like Americans either and GIs who were caught with their women were often castrated. Why don’t we just bring our troops home from these ungrateful countries especially Britain. Britain is no longer the great nation it once was. Until I read Pragmatist above I wasn’t aware of such hostility toward Americans by the British. It figures though since the Home Secretary (not there any longer) banned our radio talk show host Michael Savage for unknown reasons. Why don’t we ban any Brits from coming here. If they hate us so much they stay in their own country and go to countries they feel more akin to.

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:30 am 26. Marie Claude:

“For holding out while countries like Belgium and France folded”

don’t forget the sacrifice of 100 000 french soldiers that made possible to the brit troops to regain their homland, ol right, fer ya, we should had surrendered earlier, so that your partition of the legend could fit

Oct 7, 2009 - 10:35 am 27. Blackwell:

JP49 at 25: Surely you can’t be serious? Aside from not wanting to sell out allies who fight bad people further away than hawaii, Britain was about the most accomodating place one could be in WWII unless you were home. And one member of my family was in Italy for a time: said it was terrific, as were the people. Same hold true today. Go there sometime. Its fabulous. You’ll come away a convert.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:00 am 28. JP49:

Blackwell at 27: I’m dead serious. My father’s letters to my mother told about several GIs who were castrated. He said that the GIs were told not to go out alone because it had gotten so bad. He also said that he loved Italy and that it was a beautiful country and that a lot of the people there were happy to see the GIs and treated them with kindness and thankfulness. There were however those who felt that Americans were dirty and none of their women were to date them. The name of the city he was stationed in escapes me at the moment but I can ask my mother tonight. I am always hopeful that I can someday go to Italy. He described to us a beautiful countryside. War is a horrible thing and people react with prejudices against foreigners unfortunately, even those there to help. I am sure such a thing would not happen today in Italy. My father’s letters during that time had a lot blackened out in them. Unfortunately, he refused to talk about some parts of the war to any of us kids, just my mother, grandmother and grandfather. My mother shares some of his letters but not all with us.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:18 am 29. EscapeVelocity:

I personally welcome the influx of Europeans surely to develop in the next 2 to 5 decades.

I think the US should build a Western Hemispheric Alliance of the Americas, where Christianity remains strong as Western Civilization.

The coming EUCaliphateSSR if overrun with Muslims will become an enemy, not an ally.

We shouldnt abandon Eastern Europe again though….nor the Pacific Rim, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Phillipines, Australia…though the Kiwis should be repeatedly offended in small ways in perpetuity.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:19 am 30. EscapeVelocity:

I think I just described Oceania….the UK will be AirStrip One.

And of course India will be in alliance against the Islamic Caliphate.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:22 am 31. Poor Citizen:

I am american and have been living in europe for over ten years and have travelled all over. The past nine years have been particularly bad being an american. Americans living over here and travelling over here have gone from being loved to being verbally and physically assaulted on the streets. However, since Bush was replaced, this open anti-americanism has somewhat diminished, but you still get the sense it would not take much to re-surface. Europeans, and the rest of the world, no longer have any naive illusions about “the big country.” However, I always knew that when your the biggest ape in jungle, your gonna get hit by the most coconuts. That is one fact that always keeps this american very proud.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:43 am 32. Mary Jackson:

You still here?

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:48 am 33. Pragmatist:

Just a little reminder YANKS you GAVE us Brits NOTHING we paid you every last dime of the LEND LEASE a phrase some of you don’t even seem to understand the meaning of. Also I note that not one of you can deny that you did not rush to help us but instead were dragged kicking and screaming in to War by Japans attack on you and even then I doubt very much if you would have joined the EUROPEAN War if Germany had not declared war on YOU.
Please please pleas dont give me the Rationing BS you did not live in post war Britain and Europe where severe rationing continued until the LATE 50’s. I never even saw a Banana until I was eight years old.
BTW JP49 I am anything but hostile to America but I am very hostile to the uneducated, ignorant, Nationalistic HYPOCRISY displayed by most Americans posting on here. So lets see how you Americans like living in a sick Socialist Islaomophile PC MC Green NAZI world that your misguided or maybe just evil Mohammedan LIAR Messiah is dragging you in to I wish you the best of luck with that “Hope and Change thingy”.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:53 am 34. Mary Jackson:

your misguided or maybe just evil Mohammedan LIAR Messiah

Objectionable as Obama is, what I wouldn’t do, and nor, I imagine, would Pragmatist, is extrapolate from one man to “America” as a whole. Yet the very title of this post, “Anti-Americanism is Alive and Well in the UK” is based on the statements of one man, a has-been from an old Tory government. Not even the current shadow cabinet, let alone the 60 million inhabitants of Britain.

Extrapolating from single incidents to the whole is what Carol Gould routinely does when she writes one of these many pieces about how awful it is in England. Notice that she is still here – a glutton for punishment perhaps.

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:18 pm 35. Pragmatist:

So lets see what makes America GREAT shall we
The Car nope invented by the GERMANS

The Train which opened up the West and made America viable nope invented by those wicked Brits.

The RADIO nope pesky Brits again.

Television nope pesky Brits AGAIN.

The Jet Engine nope invented by those pesky Brits and Germans again.

The Internet nope only made possible by HTML invented by a pesky Brit again Sir Berners Lee ( sorry not Al Gore at all LOL).

The Computer nope those pesky Brits again.

Asdic which along with Radar REALLY WON the Atlantic war , pesky Brits again.

Radar nope wow why did those pesky Brits invent so much.

Rolls Royce Merlin engine without which the P51 your GREATEST WW11 fighter was just another piece of underpowered junk, pesky Brits again.

The Cellphone and Instant messaging nope darn Jews.

So just WHAT did you Americans do for US again apart from LENDING us money for which you were FULLY repaid???????

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:22 pm 36. tinfoil hatter:

“Just a little reminder YANKS you GAVE us Brits NOTHING we paid you every last dime of the LEND LEASE a phrase some of you don’t even seem to understand the meaning of.”

Only partially true. The British loans were written down by 90%, and then the pay-off schedule was delayed many times, thus reducing the total cost of the loan. By the way, thanks, as the UK didn’t deadbeat on its loans like other countries did.

Additionally, as we speak, the last line of defense for the UK is a RN submarine armed with Trident missiles, leased from the US. If you don’t think there is a special relationship, well, I suppose that’s your right. Meanwhile, the adults in the room know, and understand the nature of the relationship.

“Also I note that not one of you can deny that you did not rush to help us but instead were dragged kicking and screaming in to War by Japans attack on you and even then I doubt very much if you would have joined the EUROPEAN War if Germany had not declared war on YOU.”

I don’t think the Destroyers For Bases, Neutrality Patrols, or the “surplusing” of millions of tons of vital war stocks so they could be given to the UK can be described as “kicking and screaming.” Additionally, within the US, there was a significant isolationist sentiment, driven by a number of factors. I don’t think that any reasonable student of history can describe America’s help to the UK in the 1939-1941 timeframe as insignificant, or find one that doesn’t describe Roosevelt’s actions as trying to get the U.S. into the war, or thinks that there was any timeframe were America wouldn’t have entered the European War.

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:26 pm 37. newguy40:

Prag has one item correct and that is about it.

Prag says paid back “every dime.” That is accurate as it WAS a loan at 10 cents on the dollar with a 2% interest rate to be paid over 50 years.

Of course, with his spewing the money is immaterial. It’s the dead merchant seaman, US Navy and US Coastguardman from the SECOND battle of the Atlantic, that he should be grateful for. But, I suspect he does not give them a seconds thought.

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:26 pm 38. Brad:

Here’s the Heseltine clip in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6y7ggURro0

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:42 pm 39. JP49:

Pragmatist 33.: Your anger toward America is breathtaking. No country is 100% right all of the time. Maybe America made mistakes and didn’t come to aid Britain as quickly as you think they should have. I had no idea what LEND LEASE was but I looked it up. Lend Lease was a USA program designed by Roosevelt wherein the UK, Soviet Union, China, France and other allied nations were supplied with VAST amounts of war materials including munitions, land vehicles, ships and food and which program was a significant part of your sucess in fighting the war. At first the Lend Lease program was paid in cash/gold and later Churchill and Roosevelt negotiated newer terms. The Canadians also had a LEND-LEASE program with Britain. You state that we took all of Britain’s money. I don’t know about that and it would take a lot of research to find out if your assertions are correct. God I hate being called a YANK. A derogatory term mean’t to slap us in the face if there ever was one. Who knows what our two governments thought or why they made the agreements they did. In any case its a good thing that Britain got those LEND LEASE agreements because you needed every bit of help you could get. I assume you wished that we hadn’t charged you or maybe charged you less. Maybe we should have done it differently I don’t know. But until now I thought Britain and the USA were allies. My bad. I didn’t know we committed so many cardinal sins. As far as the hopey changey thing I didn’t vote for him and never would. There is one bit of advice I’ll give, NO GOVERNMENT IS WITHOUT FAULT.

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:44 pm 40. blackwell:

“poor citizen.” Anti-americanism has always been there and always will be. You’re right to suck it up and ignore them.

It was no easier when Reagan was president (he was a “cowboy” and the US was perceived as more dangerous than the USSR by all manner of foreign loons who would toady to the USSR for anything).

Some places like us when ever we are down but hate us when we are doing fine. Some places are worse than others: greece used to be a bit prickly; France was not so hot, and took joy in rejecting dollars about 20 years ago when the dolar was down at the time. Belgium, which surrendered before th germans even got there, and is disntegrating as a “country,” feels free to lecture Americans on everything, even how to keep a country together.

They lecture us about racism but none of them will ever elect a black as President. They lecture us about unilateralism, but couldn’t deal with loony dictators 60 years ago or now. Ignore them.

Plus other than Russia, they are all so SMALL.

anyway, now we know how the British felt 1700-1900.

33: Pragmatist: (a) lend lease followed the end of payments and it was not repaid and we never wanted it repaid; (b), we may have been a bit behind reality: in 1924 the Empire had 400 million plus people and it was rather natural to think that you had more money than we did; (c)I didn’t see you jump into the war until you had sold out every ally that sought to stand with you (churchill’s language not mine); I hardly think that you have any standing to criticize us for being as blind as you were, but I admit we had some real blind spots till 1941;(d) if you elect socialists to run your economy, you won’t see bananas that is for sure. But your underworked coal miners were paid well right? Hardly our fault. I love you guys anyway.

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:45 pm 41. mags:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_arms_importation

For more than 30 years,the I.R.A was bankrolled by donations from the USA — and in those 30 years the U.S would not extradite wanted terrorists to face charges here, despite our repeated requests.

Both federal and local US courts refused extradition requests almost as policy, while the funding of the IRA continued without interruption and was still raking in the money even after 9/11, when the Americans suddenly decided that they ought to start proscribing certain terrorist groups. The IRA was not, for some time, one of the groups so proscribed.

The U.S gave visa’s to known I.R.A members to fund raise against our governments wishes.

Gerry Adams was given the keys to New York by Rudy Giuliani.
He has even had a street named after him.

Bars in Boston had drinks called ‘kill a brit’ and ‘carbomb’(The I.R.A invented the road side bomb that is killing our soldiers and yours)

Weapons sent included semtex and surface to air missiles,we didn’t intercept them all.

Money was sent to help the families of killed or imprisoned ‘comrades’ and to keep their graves nice and tidy.

The IRA nearly killed Prime Minister Thatcher and her cabinet with a bomb in 1984, and it assassinated prominent British politicians and members of the royal family.

Nobody deserves terrorism. We supported you following 9/11.

Rep. Peter King–for years, the congressman was alinged with “one of the most violent terrorist groups in recent European history”–the IRA

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/member-87856-attention-politicians.html

The politician once called the IRA “the legitimate voice of occupied Ireland,” he was banned from the BBC by British censors for his pro-IRA views, and he refused to denounce the IRA when one of its mortar bombs killed nine Northern Irish police officers. But Mr. King is now one of America’s most outspoken foes of terrorism.

He forged links with leaders of the IRA and Sinn Fein in Ireland, and in America he hooked up with Irish Northern Aid, known as Noraid, a New York based group that the American, British, and Irish governments often accused of funneling guns and money to the IRA.

He spoke regularly at Noraid protests and became close to the group’s publicity director, the Bronx lawyer Martin Galvin, a figure reviled by the British.

Much of the conventional weaponry and a great deal of the money necessary for IRA violence came from Irish-American sympathizers.

Mr. King’s advocacy of the IRA’s cause encouraged that flow and earned him the deep-seated hostility of the British and Irish governments

During his visits to Ireland, Mr. King would often stay with well-known leaders of the IRA, and he socialized in IRA drinking haunts.

At one of such clubs, the Felons, membership was limited to IRA veterans who had served time in jail.

Mr. King would almost certainly have been red-flagged by British intelligence as a result, but the experience gave him plenty of material for the three novels he subsequently wrote featuring the IRA.

If objecting to this makes me anti-American then i raise my hand.

Oct 7, 2009 - 12:52 pm 42. Millie Woods:

First of all just remember that Heseltine before he became his lordship had major issues with Margaret Thatcher and tried to bring her down. To put it bluntly he’s an idiotic upper class twit type and ugly to boot.
Second point – English types whose view of their own superiority like pragmatist and the gruesomwe lord consider all of us colonial beings – I’m Canadian BTW – inferior. When I lived in the UK I used to be told frequently by types with an outsize superiority complex that they couldn’t live in America because they’d miss the cultue. My breezy reply to that was well you’vre missed it here so obviously you’d miss it there.
Finally take pity on me. As a Canadian and Quebecker I get pragmatist style smack downs from both the French and English – all of it both predictable and amusing.

Oct 7, 2009 - 1:44 pm 43. Nedarc:

Carol: Great article! As far as America not saving England when she had her ‘tit’in the ringer. I say Read your own history, and especially some of the great speeches of your leader at the time. The great Sir Winston Churchill, who was my Prime Minister when I first moved to London as a child in 1953. Churchill knew without America’s help, England was doomed, they had their expeditionary force of over 300K men with their back to the sea and left all of their military equipment at Dunkirk. Listen to Churchill’s speach June 1940 were he talks about the unthinkable and hopes that the “New World” (meaning America) will rescue Great Briton.

“WE SHALL FIGHT on the seas & oceans.
WE SHALL FIGHT on the landing grounds.
WE SHALL FIGHT in the fields & in the street.
WE SHALL FIGHT in the hills.
WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER & even IF,which I do
not for one moment believe,this island or a
large part of it were SUBJUGATED & STARVING,
then our empire beyond the seas, armed &
guarded by the British Fleet, would carry
on the struggle,until,in God’s good time,
the NEW WORLD,with all its POWER & Might,
steps forth to the RESCUE & the LIBERATION
of the old. ”
There you have it right from the horses mouth , so to speak. Between 1940 & 1944 Churchill made several trips to the White House and addressed the Congress asking for our help and being the good country we are we gave Briton everything we could, uncluding our blood. Us Americans know were our roots are and I hope the ‘Brits’ feel the same.
Th

Oct 7, 2009 - 1:44 pm 44. Marie Claude:

“As a Canadian and Quebecker I get pragmatist style smack downs from both the French and English – all of it both predictable and amusing.”

uh may-be cuz your accent is so bizarre :

http://www.koreus.com/video/taxi-quebec.html

Oct 7, 2009 - 2:04 pm 45. EscapeVelocity:

Anti Americanism was more of a Right Wing phenomenon in Europe a century or more ago. The upper classes, aristocrats and royolty, etc…sneering at the colonial rubes of low birth, low class, and low culture. It used to be the lower classes looked to America as the land of promise, and of land for those who could make it to America.

However with the rising prominence of Marxist Leftwing ideology, especially post WW2….Leftwing Anti Americanism came to trump the old snobbery (which was still there just superceded by the villification from the Left). In a way they fused together as the Left came to dominate Europe, sneering cultural snobbery, combined with jealosy/envy made all the worse by the fading past imperial glory of Europe, and the relentless Leftwing ideolgoical villification and criticism of the US.

And that is basically where we stand today.

Oct 7, 2009 - 2:08 pm 46. Anonymous:

hey, Velocity, you’re to veloce todraw your conclusions, without a deeper analyse

you can’t tell that our aristocrats didn’t like America, our last king got ruined for helping american rebellion against England, and he lose his head. Would you think that the new independant country would feel pity, not a single kopek was bet on french revolution by american colonists (well former English and Scott-Irish + Germans settlers, I must say).

Seems that this new merchands country was happy that France was in mess.

Oct 7, 2009 - 2:29 pm 47. I.S. Igorant:

Speaking as a Yank, I gotta say that Britain is the worst of the 50 states to live in. Them Brits is all pasty an’ smelly and got them giant economy size yellow buck teeth stickin’ outta them horse faces. All them Brit wimmin got beer bellies and zits, an’ wear clothes ten sizes too small for ‘em. And all them Brit men walk around with bits of kidney pie and blood pudding stuck onto they false teeth. Yuk!

Oct 7, 2009 - 2:31 pm 48. Marie Claude:

escape, do you remember our last king ? he got ruined and lost his head for America. Had these merchands paid him back in time, be it with clinging gold and or with soldiers, (and not late as 1917), we might be still under a parlementarian royalty system, like spain, UK…

Oct 7, 2009 - 2:34 pm 49. EscapeVelocity:

Lets face it Marie Claude, the French Kings support for the American insurgents was based on weakening the English, and not out of love for the American colonials. The French also wanted the English out of North America, so that they could collect the bounty.

Sure there were some ideologues that supported the spirit of the Revolution, but for the most part the official policy of supporting the American colonials was based on self interest.

That Revolution rocked France later is immaterial. And the French characteristically screwed that up and launched into a military despotism immediately, after the revolutionary purges…then onto military subjugation of Europe, the old EU dream of one Europe. Which is now being persued by another route, with the Germans and French at the heart of this project, as usual…and the Russians still learing lustfully at empire in the East.

Yawn…

Oct 7, 2009 - 3:09 pm 50. Millie Woods:

Marie Claude or should that be Clod – how right you are to bring up the subject of accents which as every je pense donc je suis being of the French persuasion knows is of earth shattering importance in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps it explains why francophonie with a mere seventy million adherents loses ground daily and even Rwandans have ditched your langue maternelle.

Oct 7, 2009 - 3:41 pm 51. EscapeVelocity:

I see a lot of French immigration to Quebec, in the future…as they flee the Muslims.

Will they humbly try to adapt and fit in, or will they arrogantly sneer at the Quebecois accent and attmept to take over Quebecs institutions. No doubt they will push for seccession from Canada Proper.

The Future Joys that await us. One can hardly wait!

Oct 7, 2009 - 4:12 pm 52. Marie Claude:

uh Millie, you’re yourself incomprehensible, must I deduct that your axiom is “verified”

Oct 7, 2009 - 4:17 pm 53. Marie Claude:

Mon cher Escape, you could escape into these links :

http://xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/alliance2.htm

http://xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/ros6-2e.htm

hope your historical perspective will get a bit more accurate

Oct 7, 2009 - 4:28 pm 54. Cybergeezer:

The title of this article should have “US” at the end and not the “UK”.

Oct 7, 2009 - 4:31 pm 55. Tournefort:

Jean-Francois Revel wrote extensively on anti-Americanism. Here is a small exerpt from the introduction to his book on the topic.

“From 1953 to 1969, living in Italy and then in France, I had watched and formed my opinion about the United States through the filter of the European press, which means that my judgment was unfavorable. Europeans at that time saw America as the land of McCarthyism and the execution of the Rosenbergs (who were innocent, we believed), of racism and the Korean War and a stranglehold on Europe itself—the “American occupation of France,” as Simone de Beauvoir and the Communists used to say. And then Vietnam became the principal reason to hate America.” …

“As the sixties unfolded, I had begun to be invaded by doubts as to the validity of this reflexive anti-Americanism, which indiscriminately condemned America’s “imperialistic” foreign policy—Soviet imperialism, in contrast, was but philanthropy—and American society. When I traveled to America in the early winter of 1969 to research Without Marx or Jesus, I was astonished by evidence that everything Europeans were saying about the U.S. was false.”

The whole article is eye-opening.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3498

Oct 7, 2009 - 4:32 pm 56. Ruebacca:

God Bless England. The English have brought sanity and law to the world. The freedoms we enjoy in the USA come from the Anglo-Saxon tradition and that is a mighty gift. Being Anglo-Saxons we act in our own self interest and some times that does not jive with the interests of England.

Its true that we let England sway in the wind for 4 years in WW1 and 3 years in WW2. But Isreal gets freash shipments of artlery shells at the drop of a hat. In addition Irish Americans have been and always will be a pain in your side. I will note that our current Presidents grandfather was killed by the Churchill government in the 50’s in the mow-mow uprising.

Obama is a moron and Gordon Brown deserves alot more respect than he has recevied. Reagan and Kennady were Irish but had alot more class than Obama ever will.

Oct 7, 2009 - 5:22 pm 57. Barry:

Blackwell in case you were not aware Britain did repay the money it owed America. At a VERY favourable rate true but it did repay the money it owed from led-lease. The last payment was made in 2006 btw.

Oct 7, 2009 - 5:48 pm 58. Donna V.:

Yeah, Millie, the French government spends a fortune to promote the use of their beloved language abroad – and then the French look down their noses at anybody who doesn’t speak it exactly like they do. Wonderful way to make people want to speak your tongue.

And now Marie Claude is blaming the seperation of Louis XVI’s head from his shoulders on – the Americans! If America had existed at the time of the Black Death and the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre, we’d get the blame for that too.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:12 pm 59. Donna V.:

mags: I don’t blame you about being angry about the support some Americans gave the IRA, a disgusting organization.

But remember, it was a relatively small group of Irish Americans, largely centered in Boston, New York and Chicago, who did so. Noraid cans weren’t sitting on the bar of every bar, or even every Irish bar in America. I doubt most Americans even know what Noraid is. Outside of certain fervent Irish Americans, there isn’t much interest in “The Troubles.”

I hope your anger also includes some of your own countrymen who aided and abetted the IRA – like John Lennon, for instance, who donated to them.

And one of the American politicans most guilty of promoting and excusing the ugly deeds of the IRA recently died – and was treated like a hero by our liberal media. They forgave him his bad driving, drinking and womanizing, they weren’t about to call him on the IRA.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:25 pm 60. Eric:

I wouldn’t concern myself with Britain or Europe. In another generation or two they will be Islamic Republics fully hostile the US and in possession of nuclear weapons. Europeans, generally, are weak effete, cowards whose will to survive as a distinct culture has been crushed out of them from decades of socialist rule. Islam is outbreeding native Europeans and as long as the leaders of the EU trade oil for immigrants Europe has no hope of saving itself from demographic annihilation. Europe is a sad pathetic shadow of its former self.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:25 pm 61. Donna V.:

uh Millie, you’re yourself incomprehensible

Marie Claude: again, you really should not be sneering at someone else’s language skills. I sometimes have to read your sentences two or three times to understand what you’re saying. I wouldn’t judge you harshly for it if you weren’t so snotty and stuck-up and reflexively anti-American. And it’s hardly worth the effort to try to figure out what you’re trying to say, since it’s usually just the usual dreary blame-the-Yanks-for-everything horse manure

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:35 pm 62. Now and Then:

It’s alive and well right here.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/conservatives-make-fools-themselves-the

This Olympic epidose is really gonna blow up in your faces.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:43 pm 63. Mark:

“The way he vomited out “Israel” was special. It was a sort of “I am talking about human excrement” expression on his face.”

You are full of crap. I will let others see the interview itself to make their own judgment as to the expression on his face reflecting it as human excrement as you describe or is the view you see more a reflection on your own views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6y7ggURro0

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:44 pm 64. Brad:

Marie Claude says, “there wasn’t a significant german Navy, this was one of the requests made in Versailles treaty, that Germany couldn’t rebuilt her fleet.”

That is false. The Treaty of Versailles merely stated that no signing nation could produce a warship with a displacement exceeding 10,000 tons.
The Germans bent that rule and also flat out ignored it as can be seen by the specs on the Graf Spee, the Bismarck and the Deutschland.

In addition to the U Boats that could have been used for a blockade, they had:

The heavy cruiser Schleswig-Holstein
The battleship KMS Deutschland
The battleship KMS Bismarck
The heavy cruiser Admiral Scheer
The battleship Graf Spee

The German navy was well equipped to pommel England from the sea. They relied on the Luftwaffe and Goering’s hubris.

Just the facts, Ma’am.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:55 pm 65. Marie Claude:

Tournefort,

from Revel’s article

But Europeans, and above all the French, with remarkable unfairness forgot or pretended to forget that the war was a direct offshoot of European colonial expansion in general, and of the French Indochina War in particular”

I look for one statement where he can be labelled as wrong by both of our nations, there it is Indochina war was first an anti-communist war.

Where do you think that France could find a money support for this war ? from the Americans, cuz, we were a RUINED country after 1945, with no arms, no planes…

So do you think that Americans would have given us money for carrying a colonial war ?

So Mr Revel’s book is just an OPINION book (and should be taken for so)that only reflect his, (it’s like Jonas Goldberg calling us “surrender-monkeys” in his billet, should I think it was only his opinion too ?) that titills your paranoid ego, and add water to your windmill.

Historians have another explanation, for exemple, how do you explain well displayed french-bashing :

French historian Justin Vaïsse has proposed that an important cause of public hostility in the U.S. is the small number of Americans of direct or recent French descent. Most Americans of French descent are descended from seventeenth and eighteenth century colonists who settled in Quebec, Acadia, or Louisiana before migrating to the United States or being incorporated into American territories. Many other French Americans of colonial era Huguenot descent have ceased to identify with predominantly Roman Catholic France. As a result, most Franco-Americans do not closely identify with France, or have direct ties to present-day France, and there is relatively little cohesion or organization amongst French Americans of different cultural backgrounds.While Vaïsse acknowledges that this is not the direct cause of anti-French sentiments, he argues that it explains why these sentiments can be expressed publicly, without being seen as a gross violation of political correctness. Vaïsse contends that by comparison, the public display of such sentiments towards Mexicans or the Japanese would be met by strong disapproval. He proposes that as a result of the limited number of French people who migrated to the U.S. France has no powerful and organised lobby to defend it, making it socially and politically acceptable to hold negative stereotypes of the French.

now, who’s gonna win the contest ? anti-Americanism or anti-Frenchism ?

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:56 pm 66. Donna V.:

47. I.S. Igorant: Great parody – or it would be if any Yank on this thread actually sounded like that. Poor, poor dear, trying to be witty. Jonathan Swift, you’re not, hon.

And if you think the UK does not have its own version of “rubes,” google “chavs.” Or “soccer hooligans.”

Better google “Jonathan Swift” too, for that matter.

Oct 7, 2009 - 6:56 pm 67. Marie Claude:

Dona,

“the French government spends a fortune to promote the use of their beloved language abroad ”

you would have preferred that France sponsored “english” ?

well, you just demonstrated your ignorance, if France spend such a fortune, it’s not for the only sake of french, it’s because the African countries are in the need of such operation, French is THE communication language for administrations, schools, businesses (businesses,english too)… and d’ya know how many dialects are spoken by these populations ? sorry they were colonised by French, and therefore they speak french, not english !

no comment for the rest, it’s just of the same accabit

Oct 7, 2009 - 7:06 pm 68. Marie Claude:

Eric,

Europeans, generally, are weak effete, cowards whose will to survive as a distinct culture has been crushed out of them from decades of socialist rule. Islam is outbreeding native Europeans and as long as the leaders of the EU trade oil for immigrants Europe has no hope of saving itself from demographic annihilation. Europe is a sad pathetic shadow of its former self.

LMAO, tell Dona, she just said that we spend a fortune to promote french culture, uh that doesn’t make of us some “dhimmis”, but rather the contrary !

Oct 7, 2009 - 7:10 pm 69. Donna V.:

LMAO, tell Dona, she just said that we spend a fortune to promote french culture, uh that doesn’t make of us some “dhimmis”, but rather the contrary !

Nah, it makes you “idiots” since your government wants people to speak French and yet the French sneer at foreigners who try to speak it if their accents aren’t “perfect.”

Here in the States, when schools budgets are cut, more and more school systems are ceasing to offer French. It’s becoming rather like Latin; not a language believed to be necessary or useful in the modern world. And why study French when native French speakers are not helpful or friendly to those learning their language? Other peoples appreciate it when you try to speak their tongue.

Oct 7, 2009 - 7:51 pm 70. Marie Claude:

Brad,

dunno for the other nations that signed the treaty, but for Germany :

Article 190 (see article from 181 to 192)

Germany is forbidden to construct or acquire any warships other than those
intended to replace the units in commission provided for in Article l81 of the
present Treaty

The warships intended for replacement purposes as above shall not exceed the
following displacement:

Armoured ships 10,000 tons

Light cruisers 6,000 tons

Destroyers 800 tons

Torpedo boats 200 tons

I said no significant Navy, comparing to the French and or UK’s

otherwise why was Churchill so eager to destroy our ships ?

these are the facts, Missieu

http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/text/versaillestreaty/ver159.html

Oct 7, 2009 - 7:52 pm 71. EscapeVelocity:

He proposes that as a result of the limited number of French people who migrated to the U.S. France has no powerful and organised lobby to defend it, making it socially and politically acceptable to hold negative stereotypes of the French. — Marie article quote

—

LOL! You cant make that up folks. (Do I sense a bit of Israel bashing in there as well? on the sly, wink wink, nudge nudge).

Anyways, it has been shown time and again that the French just arent on the minds of most Americans. They dont bash France in the coffee shops regularly as a topic d’jour? (How’s my French? )

Furthermore, French culture is well respected, fashion, design, food, architecture, and the like. The same cannot be said for American products, which are derided as inferior generally, even if they continue to go to the movies and use the products developed and designed in the US.

Anti Frenchism is a reaction to French unfriendliness and antagonism. French foreign policy amounted to obstructing US initiatives and power as the starting point the assumed position until French interests could be ascertained, and even if French interests dovetailed nicely with US, they would bad mouth us publicly while working with us behind the scenes.

We dont have an Anti French irrational problem. Our anti Frenchism is a direct response to French irrational anti Americanism that they are obssessed with and continuously and voiceferously manifesting. It even pisses the French off that we usually couldnt give a rat’s arse about France or the French, their slanders, hatemongering, malicious lies, anti US propaganda. France is inconsequential, a nuisance, a has been.

Churchill maintained that if the British Isles were over run, that it would fight on from its colonial and imperial territories, France didnt even fight past Paris. You are pathetic weasels, who still believe in their own grandiosity, based in sentimentality of past glories…spiteful at those with real power, that you once had. The Americans that arent concerned with your ridiculous hatreds and posings, because we dont need to do so, which all the more, feeds your malevolence towards them, the feeling of inadequacy, always measuring yourself against the Americans…claiming superiority in this manner or that…which is really based in French impotence and inferiority complexes.

But even with all that, you really arent worth a conversation at the cafe. In a word, France is pathetic. But its not worth discussing, its just one fact in the wide world…nothing to concern yourself with really…we have more important things to think about….not embittered old imperialists who have lost their confidence.

Shana Tova!

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:01 pm 72. Donna V.:

Oh, yeah, N & T, it’s really going to blow up in our faces because *gasp* John Amato says so!! Man, I am soooo awed by what this seer, this prophet says! Uh, who the hell is John Amato?

Obama isn’t America, drama queen. Sorry, we just ain’t that into your boyfriend.

Between you and Marie Claude, I’m having quite a good time tonight.

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:01 pm 73. Marie Claude:

Donna

Marie Claude: again, you really should not be sneering at someone else’s language skills. I sometimes have to read your sentences two or three times to understand what you’re saying. I wouldn’t judge you harshly for it if you weren’t so snotty and stuck-up and reflexively anti-American. And it’s hardly worth the effort to try to figure out what you’re trying to say, since it’s usually just the usual dreary blame-the-Yanks-for-everything horse manure

you really should be a bit careful before displaying such lectures, did it occur to you that the canadian video was a joke ?

but, you are honnest, I accord you that : “you don’t like the French”, it is perspiring from most of your writing about us.

Now, what you take as my anti-americanism, is rather my attempt to correct falsh assertions about us, and if my writings are seemingly “harsh”, it’s because I can’t be otherwise in front of such bad faith

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:03 pm 74. ian cormac:

Good lord, another simpering wet Tory, well this is the likely type you will get under Cameron, not a Thatcher, hell not even a
Palmerston. He explains why the Conservatives have been in exile for a decade or more

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:14 pm 75. EscapeVelocity:

Just want to mention that Ive read Revel’s book Anti Americanisme, and highly recommend it. Very insightful.

Paul Hollander is also an author of note on the subject and worth seeking out.

Another example of Anti Americanism of the irrational variety. Latin American Anti Americanism. The Revel article talked about the nature of anti Americanism where the US is damned if the do and damned if they dont. A recent example of this is Honduras with the Zelaya Affair. Obama was down in Mexico and chastized by the media with a hostile pointed question on it. While Im not a fan of his muddled confused response to the situation itself, which seems to be in support of Zelaya and against Constitutional Democratic Government…he rightly responded that you cant have it both ways, complaining that the US interferes too much and then complaining that they arent interfering when they dont.

But alas, Anti Americanism isnt rational, in the larger sense, as revealed by this paradox of damned if you do and damned if you dont. Although there can certainly be legitimate greivances with America.

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:19 pm 76. Mario Mirarchi:

If there is no “special relationship”, then how do you explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKX4EBM978

Or this?

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/do-americans-care-about-british-soldiers.htm

Oct 7, 2009 - 8:56 pm 77. EscapeVelocity:

I couldnt resist…

French art and food lovers are choking on their fries.

The debate has tempers flaring, both among food lovers and art lovers in France. But now it is done: The hamburger chain McDonald’s is celebrating their 30th anniversary by opening restaurant 1142 in France – in the Louvre.

The neon yellow and eye-catching M will be the first “attraction” museum visitors arriving by subway will see, before they enter the museum to admire the works of Da Vinci, Rembrandt, Botticelli and other masters.

The Louvre has the opportunity to stop any shops or stores who do not fulfill the aesthetic and cultural values deemed worthy of being associated with the world renowned art mecca. But McDonald’s managed to pass the test. And so did the coffee chain Starbucks last year – also during heated protests and signature campaigns.

The opposition is asking the president of the Louvre, Henri Loyrette, to resign.

http://watchingamerica.com/News/35317/mcdonalds-opens-a-new-arc-de-triomphe-in-the-louvre/

———

Also note, the Louvre is moving partially to the UAE…part of their ongoing reorientation towards dhimmitude….selling their national historical artifacts to the Arab Muslims.

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:03 pm 78. Frank:

Prétentieuse, hargneuse, imbue de sa personne, à côté de ses pompes les 3/4 du temps dans ses commentaires qu’elle rédige dans une langue qu’elle ne maîtrise pas de toute évidence, la Marie Clause est l’archétype même de ces “Fançais de France” que bien des Québécois méprisent, à juste titre.

And Millie Woods, my Dear, you rock !

Oct 7, 2009 - 9:33 pm 79. Rockingham:

Of course, Hesletine is an ardent european federalist. He needs to destroy the strong atlanticist feeling in Britian if he is ever to succeed in eliminating British soverignty in favour of rule from Brussels. That is what is behind his pitiful anti-Americansim.

BTW, I though that the US entered both world wars because it was attacked (SS Lusitania and Pearl Harbour,) and not because it wanted to save Britian.

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:47 pm 80. Michael:

About the time we (UK, France etc) become Muslims; you lot – USA, Canada, will become Mexican. Ms Gould will have plenty of targets then. But where will she live?

Oct 7, 2009 - 11:51 pm 81. Poor Citizen:

To Mags and Pragmatist:

Who cares what Britain thinks anyway. Its not a Brit problem or an American problem. Its an Irish problem.

Its good what you finally started doing what you should have done years ago. Stop tellin the Irish how to be Brit…it wont work and go home. You have enough problems in your own..so called Union…

A word to the wise should be sufficient. Good Luck

Oct 8, 2009 - 2:48 am 82. Marie Claude:

Donna

“Here in the States, when schools budgets are cut, more and more school systems are ceasing to offer French”

From a racist Fraulein,

you know what ? for persons like you, I’m going to watch your collapsing with a smile, and I will feel sorry for my many friends there,

and guess, you’ll have to forget your english and to learn spanish and chinese

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:02 am 83. Marie Claude:

Michael, We DON’T have to learn arab, we already KNOW, hey which family didn’t had soldiers in muslims and african countries ?

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:06 am 84. Marie-Claude:

Frank, “Tabernacle” ! tu sais quoi mon beauf est Québecois, ma belle soeur aussi, (et pas de l’après-guerre, depuis 2 siècles) vas te faire foutre idiot !

mais je crois que vous avez un réel complexe d’infériorité (souvent justifié LMAO)

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:15 am 85. Marie Claude:

Veloce

“Do I sense a bit of Israel bashing in there as well?”

LMAO, inevitable in your such a programmed mind !

il voyait des nains partout ! (a joke, for the lecturers !)

the rest, is as usual not surprising, but youre loosing your hand, now, even the Brits don’t recognize you as their offsprings, but as hatemongers

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:23 am 86. Marie Claude:

Do I need more proofs ?

someone wrote that when Nations are not hated that means that they aren’t worth a nickel

I would rather recommand you Guy Sorman, Finkelkraut, rather than Revel, t’em they live in reality, not behind golden academic palms in a closed office, like Revel

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:33 am 87. Anonymous:

What I constat, is that you so good hearted people, have a different vocabulary and or ton when you talk of the Brits that reversed as “anti-Americans”, but when you talk of the French, seems that your hate is exacerbated ! Were we attacking you in 9/11 ?

were we attacking you since the war of independance ?

The Brits did burn your White House in 1812 though !

“Si n’aviez-vous pas une dette sacrée à payer, n’aviez-vous pas l’honneur national à défendre ? Qui retenait vos forts, qui capturait vos vaisseaux? L’Angleterre. Qui voulut vous asservir? Qui vous suscita (sic) la guerre contre les Algériens et les Indiens? L’Angleterre. Qui vous défendit quand vous brisâtes vos chaînes? La France. Qui veut pour son intérêt que vous conserviez votre liberté? la France “

and,

1782 :Vergennes was not surprised. He had his reasons for terminating the war quickly, and accepted the American diplomatic acts with the chide: “We have never based our policy towards the United States on their gratitude. This sentiment is infinitely rare among sovereigns, and unknown to republics

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:50 am 88. Jim Anderson:

Poor Pragmatist…Maybe Americans paid attention when Churchill said of your own government, “You had a choice between dishonor and war. You have chosen dishonor. You will get war.” And by golly, you did!

The British Navy? Yep – them Germans in their canoes were pitiful. As I recall – when the pride of the British Navy, [the Hood, wasn't it?] had the epic 30 second battle with the Bismarck after which the Hood became a graveyard, what was it that you sent after the Bismarck? Oh yeah – the entire freakin’ British Navy had to be re-routed to sink one boat. Yup.
But wait – it wasn’t the Navy that really croaked the Bismarck was it? No. It was Britain’s ingenious employment of 1917 Swordfish Single Torpedo Bi-planes – so wisely saved for the 1940’s while ours were wasting away in museums – that – backed up by the whole damned British Navy – was able to decisively dent a propeller on the Bismarck? Then – the entire Navy, employing the most daring of strategies was able to figure a way to sink the Bismarck while the Bismarck paddled around in one continuous circle like a duck in a barrel. That was a result of British Naval know-how if ever there was any. They may have had a pitiful collection of canoes in Germany, but, by gum, they were certainly big canoes, weren’t they?

Oh yes, your Empire and the Russians would have wiped out Hitler. Uh-huh…Yup, all those barefoot Hindus, and Tutsis, Zulus, Ugandans would have carried the day. How forunate that the entire British Empire stood on the shoulders of barefoot natives armed with the latest spears and slingshots. Yup – you guys always seemed to conquer utterly helpless chaps, didn’t you? Hmmmm…when was the last time the Empire conquered a modern industrial country? Do Falklanders using electric sheep shears count as ‘industrialized?’

And – uh – yeah…we didn’t feel like getting into WW II. After your WW I fiasco, in which your idiot generals – the ones so good at conquering barefoot tribesmen – kept launching attacks against machine guns to the tune of 50,000 fatalities per battle, you figured out that the Germans were just not going to play to your strength: shooting barefoot people with spears.

The idiocy of the generals of Britain managed to leave the flower of Britain planted amongst Europe’s weeds. As Churchill himself wondered, had the gene pool of powerful Alpha males been so decimated by the genius of the Empire’s commanders that victory couldn’t be won with the remaining specimens?

Maybe Pres. Wilson and other Americans were not so thrilled with the idea of joining WW I since, in part, it resulted from the ingenious strategy of breeding Queen Victoria like a horse so her geldings could intermarry with all the other drooling ruling royal classes of Europe and Russia to establish – what was it called? – Pax Brittania? Anyway, interbreeding, crossbreedings, etc., sure did create a juggernaut of peace, didn’t they? Incidentally – wasn’t the Kaiser in WW I your cousin, nephew, brother, or some such relative? And wasn’t the Tsar running Russia the cousin of King Edward whose reign lasted for the ten minutes it took to marry Mrs. Simpson? In fact, weren’t the major players in World War I led by all your own family members? It was more of a family feud than a war wasn’t it?
Oh yeah – we couldn’t wait to get involved in that fiasco.

As you say – the Germans weren’t able to invade Britain. Your air force, assisted by our pilots always managed to meet the Germans in the right spot in the air. That, of course, was due to the genius of the RAF commanders. How clever of them to call Massachusetts Institute of Technology and talk them into inventing radar. Clausewitz himself would never have had the strategic brilliance to think of that!

Sir – do us all a favor. When Parliament mandates you acquire your prayer rug and the Imam of Canterbury dictates that Buckimngham has to grow an arboretum in the shape of an arrow to establish HRH’s Royal Arrow Pointing to Mecca, please forget our phone number. O.K.?

And one last thing: About Ireland – did their government send you a formal invitation to conquer and pillage them or was the invitation sent by Irishmen who saw a great opportunity to become your gardeners?

[Seriously – to those brave Brits who fought alonside my American father, and who today fight as brothers in arms in Afghanistan and Iraq, please ignore this letter. This missive is directed solely to Mr. Pragmatist. He’s just one of those chaps who likes to show up unarmed at a battle of wits.
Jim Anderson

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:51 am 89. Marie Claude:

Frank, Do I have to resume that your angryness towards us is an inferiority sentiment ? hmm tabernacle is then true ! mé cé vrai, que votre sens de l’humour laisse à désirer !

d’ya know that I have a brother and a sister in law, uh, not recent, since about 2 centuries in Quebec, and that they become one of the biggest fortunes in Montreal (the pharmacy open 24/24 hours and 7/7 days)

they would smile at your ressentiment

Oct 8, 2009 - 4:02 am 90. Donna V.:

I accord you that : “you don’t like the French”, it is perspiring from most of your writing about us.

Actually, I have met French people I liked very much. I judge people by their personalities, not their nationalities. And on a day to day basis, I seldom think of France.

It’s you I don’t like.

Oct 8, 2009 - 4:23 am 91. pelaut:

#20 Michael: BS, guy. I’ve got 10 long years of being dissed by you Brits in your dusty blue suits and worn-out dirty shoes. Sit down and take it this one time.

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:20 am 92. pelaut:

Marie-Claude: Eisenhour’s ‘grand coalition’ that landed to free the French was actually 75% American, 5% Canadian and 20% British (mostly the ‘empire’ people) AND ONE LOUSY FRENCH BATTALION with de Gaulle bringing up its rear with his nose in the air getting his picture taken.

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:24 am 93. pelaut:

Marie-Claude, you lack knowlege of Revel. He spent more than a year living and traveling in America to write a book railing against the yanks. He hated them. He came home to France with the book “Without Marx or Jesus”, a paen to America and Americans, and a data and fact filled rebuke to the French. Read it!

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:33 am 94. Marie Claude:

Actually, I have met French people I liked very much. I judge people by their personalities, not their nationalities. And on a day to day basis, I seldom think of France.

ol right, how hypocrite you are, didn’t see you appreciate one single french from your writings !

It’s you I don’t like

I noticed that !

you know, Donna, I f**ing don’t care

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:34 am 95. JFM:

# I can return you the compliment: why so much hate twoards America? Irt si not like it had been America who had occupied your country or (that is for Soviet Union) being Gerùany’s best ally and set the bought a,nd piad communist party to the task of sabotaging your army and helping German’s davance. despite this with the fallen of D-DAy still unburied ouy were alraedy kissing Geralmsn and Russians on the lips. Tell me what America has done so France you haqte it so much except feedintg it from 1944 to 1949 and providing it the thousands of locomoatives it needed to put its economy back on rails?

From 1940 to 46 and from 1958 to Sarkozy’s election France has tried to play the Gamma male. the one who tries to be the King Maker by co,nstantly shifting and betraying alliances. You allied wth Soviet Union, later with Arab world and (ideologically ) with Islamists. Peole tend to have los esteem of backstabbers even when they benefit of it and America has benfitted little of Gaullist and Post-Gaullist’s backstabs. Now Gamma Male is the sophisticated word: I have another one I hope you will understand because it is in French: “état putain”

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:47 am 96. JFM:

Jim Anderson what you say is mostly true but I remind you that Devastators were nothing to write home about and that it was British not American engineers who invented the magnetrons who led to radars small enough to go on ships and precise enough to give a real davantage in combat to US carriers against Japanese ones (the 1940 generation of radars were neither)

On the other siede you could have pointed at the Japanese raid in the Indian ocean where four British battleships were sunk to no Japanese losses as teh Bristish had only biplanes and Skuas (most idiotic plane design ever) to cover them and in addition none of these ooooold battleships would have lasted more than twenty minutes against a Japanese one.

For the Soviets let’s remind that without the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact there wouldn’t have been any need to go through a so risky and costly operation as an amphibious landing and that according to Marshall Joukov, soviet artillery fired American powder, not to mention and that is just from the top of my head the high octane gasoline without which Soviet planes would have been flying coffins, the locomotives who were feeding Soviet plants with raw materials, the trucks who made the Red Aramy a mobile one or the fact that teh Soviets spent 1942 on the edge of starvation and that they couldn’t have gone for much longer without America feeding them (BTW what Soviet Union didn’t spend on ammo, locomotives and trucks could be used on building tanks, cannons or in putting more soldiers on the frontline).

Oct 8, 2009 - 6:11 am 97. JFM:

Marie Claude

#95 is not for you but an answer to #87

Oct 8, 2009 - 6:13 am 98. Marie Claude:

Tiens tiens L’Eskimo dans ses mauvais jours !

Dear, l’etat souverain as you can call us rather than “etat putain”, it’s normal that we watch for our interests firsts, as you do for yours, and sorry if they didn’t fit, uh, these are the political aleas, but, your memory is failing, you only remember that confort you as the good people

De Gaulle had to threaten your well intentionned FDR to make alliance with Russia, if America wasn’t giving him the means tof fight Germans.

Ol right, you helped us to restaure when war ended, but you people weren’t mean for bombing , so this was kinda a repay, with interests, didn’t we buy your goods and materials, so that FDR new deal could work at its high speed and resorb american unemployment ?

so Gamma female tell ya, enough of your supposed good sentiments, you’re a republic of merchands !

Oct 8, 2009 - 6:15 am 99. Marie Claude:

Pelaut, Dday, wasn’t the alone OVERLOAD times and places, there were many others, check them !

you’re living in the past, the persons that we ought to honnor (and that we honnor) are your fathers, but not their spoiled children that still asking us to thank them and to bow to their rightfulness, and that we should follow them into their foolish expeditions without questionning their justification.

We owe you nothing anymore, you have demonstrated us that you can lie and deamonise nations so that your people follow ideologue politicians

uh, tell me were there WMD in Irak or not ?

Oct 8, 2009 - 6:24 am 100. Marie Claude:

97, JFM, tant mieux, j’ai eu peur que tu ne retombes dans les affres des post-traumas symptoms

je suis désolée pour toi, d’avoir à tenir un certain discours, mais je n’ai pas le choix, je sais que je peux trouver un allié en toi aussi, et, probablement, que si beaucoup de ces personnes, qui nous accusent de tous les maux, avaient tes connaissances, elles seraient plus restreintes dans leur expression.

Oct 8, 2009 - 6:34 am 101. Mike S:

So exactly what is Carol Gould’s answer to the British criticism of America that it allowed American support of the terrorist group in Northern Ireland, the IRA ?

Oct 8, 2009 - 9:03 am 102. mags:

Donna,
‘there isn’t much interest in “The Troubles.”

That is was what Heseltine was saying. There was broad condemnation here for the realease of the Lockerbie bomber.
The anger started when American’s wanted to have sanction’s and boycott’s- even Scotland tartan causing loss of job’s.
Stating that we have no clue about terrorism, he was objecting to being lectured by the U.S who we had to ‘beg’ to stop funding the I.R.A.
That fact that there is ‘no interest’ in the troubles proves we do not have a ’special relationalship.’

The I.R.A nearly wiped out the Conservative party.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/12/newsid_2531000/2531583.stm

The REAL I.R.A was only put on U.S terrorist list in 2001,they done this in 1998.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/15/newsid_2496000/2496009.stm

It might of been only a few but it is the political support we are talking about.
The U.S has visa’s to known I.R.A members to fund raise against our governments wishes.

Gave them the biggest platform-The Whitehouse,which legitimize’s them.Refused to extidite wanted terrorists,even those who had escaped from prison.
The reason? Wait for it, because they wouldn’t get a fair trial here.

Even George Bush said that there is no difference between terrorists and those countries that allow it.

So where you with us or with the terrorist’s?

The ‘we saved you during ww1/ww2′ leaves a bad taste in our mouth’s.

Our veterans can’t believe this rhetoric,they fought shoulder to shoulder and believe the really hero’s were the ones left behind whatever nationality.

Is there a statute of limitation’s on this?

Did we ’save you’ by agreeing to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Does the death of our soldiers and the use of our tax money even things up now?

Oct 8, 2009 - 9:05 am 103. Poor Citizen:

102 Mags:

So when the Brits were starving and killing and turning the north of Ireland into a gestapo state, did you care as much then? Get out of Ireland. They do not, repeat, do not need you. And I have asked the Irish in Belfast, Paris, London, Birmingham, Boston and…Dublin and they all say the same thing. Get out. Britain is a nice country with nice people but they can no longer rule their own, let alone tell others what to do. So take the hint…get out.

Oct 8, 2009 - 9:56 am 104. blackwell:

Jim 88:

Aren’t you being a bit harsh on the Brits? I mean what you say is true, but in context, its not so damning. US manufactured tanks were not equal to anything the Germans had until the very end (the Sherman tank was often called A “Ronson” was it not? meaning a lighter when hit?); our torpedos were junk until 1943; our fighters didn’t belong in the same sky with the ME 109 and the Spitfire; the Mustang was underpowered until the RR-Merlin engine was sued. We had too few carriers and a surplus of old battlewagons. Point being, we were even further behind them.

Besides, as to all in this discussion, if this is all the US and the UK are fighting about, things are well off.

Escapevelocity: 77: I respectfully suggest that all anti-french comments be deferred as long as Sarkozy is in office, and the French navy is firing on pirates.

Oct 8, 2009 - 10:27 am 105. EscapeVelocity:

blackwell, the French are still pretty robust in cracking heads in their former colonies as well…maintaining that last vestige of Imperial Glory lording over Africans.

I find Marie Claude to be representative of French attitudes.

She will be delighted at another countries misfortune, which implicitly points to the lack of confidence in her own country. Wanting to tear down other people is a sign of an ugly pathology.

The US likes to lift other people up and have done so again, and again, and again. Its one of the reasons why we arent as powerful as we were before, because we have helped other nations and peoples up. We could have persued a policy of holding other people down and maintaining our absolute power.

But alas…

No good deed goes unpunished.

I pity the French more than anything blackwell…and that enrages them even further.

Oct 8, 2009 - 10:48 am 106. HARRY:

I work with British and French military officers all the time. I also work with Australian and Canadians as well.

I respect them enormously, but I must admit that they are bucking the tide in their understanding of America. What I hear from some of their wives, their relatives and their visiting friends is a steady stream of media-induced alarm and amazement at America.

There is a significant cultural gap. They do not understand our sense of individualism, and they do not get a sense of the size of our country and our differences. They are especially alarmed at our belief in God.

Another category are the officers from countries that, while in Afghanistan, do not want their soldiers to fight. The Germans in particular like to continually state that Americans were wrong to counter-attack into Afghanistan. It is interesting to see officers from countries that actually do fight, France, UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Canada, react to the self serving statements of the Germans.

I admire the Brits and worry that their media elites are so virulently anti-American that they can sway the people. There is a subversive, knife-edged Marxism always lurking in British journalism Americans do not understand. This fuels the anti-Americanism that is always very strong in London in particular.

By the way, as an Irish Catholic I think the Brits were on the right side in Northern Ireland. Nothing justified the IRA’s use of terrorism and their willingness to play stooge for the USSR.

Oct 8, 2009 - 11:00 am 107. Marie Claude:

104 Black well, too late, even if they do, we can’t forget what they have in their hearts, and it isn’t love for the French !, oh yes, some will say but I met some charming French that they like, I have also met many charming Americans in my job, that I like, probably that in real world communication is different, or people weren’t of the same stuff like some on this board!

Sarkozy is Chirac’s political son ! he can irritate you tomorrow, if necessity occures

Oct 8, 2009 - 11:01 am 108. Marie Claude:

She will be delighted at another countries misfortune, which implicitly points to the lack of confidence in her own country. Wanting to tear down other people is a sign of an ugly pathology.

uh, who wished us good luck with muslims, who point each thing that is going wrong by us, and label them as poisoous french dhimminitude ?

So you’re the hospital that mocks Charity !

and Sorry, I am not your favorite shoes polisher, at least I am FREE

Oct 8, 2009 - 11:06 am 109. mags:

81. Poor Citizen:
‘Who cares what Britain thinks anyway. Its not a Brit problem or an American problem. Its an Irish problem.’

So you should use terrorism to bring about political change?

Referendum after referendum has shown that the majority want to remain British. Do you not believe in the rule of law?
Change should happen through politic’s not bomb’s.
United Ireland through peaceful means.It’s the method used to achieve this not the concept.

So if we said Al-Qaeda attack the U.S so it’s nothing to do with us’,that would of been ok?

There were ques for miles to sign condolence books after 9/11,i even cried .
Nobody deserves terrorism.

‘Its good what you finally started doing what you should have done years ago. Stop tellin the Irish how to be Brit…it wont work and go home. You have enough problems in your own..so called Union…’

Big sigh.It’s that ignorance that the I.R.A played on to get ‘plastic paddies’ to donate a million dollars a year for ‘the cause’.

Have you any idea what you seem to be justifying?

So British and Irish citizens derserved this?

Enniskillen-They blew up a church service on remembrance sunday. Killing old soldiers with their medal’s on.
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/YouTube_Enniskillen_Poppy_Day_Massacre.htm

Bloody Friday,
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/YouTube_Bloody_Friday.htm

They had a bit of a twist on the suicide bomb theme.

They would drag out men from the home with a gun to there wife and childrens head.

Strap them into a van full of explosives, and then put it at their target and blow it up.
I will be here all day listing atrocieties.

It was the U.S withdrawal of support that led to a resolution.

Just think how many lives would of been saved if that had happened sooner.

Terrorist groups help eachother.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=581.0.37.0

Oct 8, 2009 - 11:23 am 110. mags:

103. Poor Citizen:

I am Irish living in the U.K who has lost family members to terrorism.

Do really believe that because of the famine in 1740 it’s O.K for the I.R.A to bomb a shopping centre the day before mothers day killing children buying their cards.

Because of the famine it’s O.K to bomb Harrods on christmas eve?

Do you even know why the troops went in ?

Oct 8, 2009 - 12:58 pm 111. EscapeVelocity:

I dont wish you ill, Marie, I wish you French and all of Europe can and will do what is necessary to repel the Muslim threat. However, I just dont think its going to happen.

I wish teh French werent such arseholes with overinflated egos trying to big note themselves by kneecapping American power….but alas…

Oct 8, 2009 - 2:04 pm 112. Greying Wanderer:

Strange article… Mr Heseltine says the only special relationship America has is with Israel and the author lists why she thinks that should be so.

My view:
1. I’m generally pro Americans and occasionally pro the American government.
2. I turn into a frothing psycho when Noraid gets mentioned but it passes after a moment or two.
3. The Republican party seems to not care about any of their country’s allies apart from Israel.

4. The Democrats only seem to care about their country’s enemies.
5. The left in my country is profoundly anti-american.
6. The right is probably 70/30 pro.

Obviously in these circumstances there can be no special relationship between our two countries as countries.

However there will always be a personal one between individuals who value our common root.

Oct 8, 2009 - 2:05 pm 113. EscapeVelocity:

The problem with the Irish situation, is that the referendem should have been island wide, not county by county. Letting individual counties decide to stay in the UK….why not individual parishes, or streets?

You see the problem?

You ensured violent conflict by your methodology.

The Unionist Protestants in Norther Ireland, would have been the majority in their counties, so able to protect themselves, while they would have been minorities in the Irsih Legislature, which would have been able to protect Catholic Republicans from the local abuse of the Unionist Protestants.

You made a terrible mistake (perhaps trying to hold onto the last bit of empire) and have paid dearly for it.

Think of it this way, where else in your Empire did this occur?

Did you allow Kenyan independence, but hold the a section back as British territory? That would have ensured violence as well. Did you keep Bombay and the surrounding area in India as British territory? That wouldnt have turned out well either.

Blaming the Irish and the IRA for what happened in Northern Ireland may make you feel superior, however the real culprit was trying to hold on to a bit of past Imperial Glory. You seem to have learned your lesson and are now devolving Scotland and Wales.

Unfortunately for you, England proper will be colonized by Pakis and other assorted Muslims from teh Empire, and you will be left as ill treated minorities in your own land.

Perhaps the Irish will let you immigrate, however, the Irish just voted to join the EU and thus surrendered their border.

Good Luck over there!

Oct 8, 2009 - 2:14 pm 114. Poor Citizen:

Mags:

I do not defend the Brits/Unionists that may have terrorized the Irish for so long. They were terrorists you, disturbingly, neglect to mention. Nor do I defend those on the Ireland side that may have terrorized innocents. There is no defence. Just remember, as I said, its an Irish problem that will be solved by the Irish. Like america learned in vietnam, it was not an american problem and we lost and left. So will you. Its an Irish problem that will only be “really solved” by the Irish. Stop blaming everyone but yourselves for stickin your noses where noses get bitten off. Your infantile rants will solve nothing. Good Luck.

Oct 8, 2009 - 2:21 pm 115. Donna V.:

mags: The difference between the UK releasing the Lockerbie terrorist and the support of some US boneheads for the IRA is that support of the IRA was not official US policy. Reagan might have been Irish American but I doubt he had any sympathy for the scum who tried to blow up Maggie.

Honestly, though, I don’t blame Brits for being angry about people here who carried their ancestral grudges over the seas and supported the IRA. Much blame goes to pandering politicans and the media people who romanticized and made excuses for the IRA.

Oct 8, 2009 - 2:25 pm 116. Carol Gould:

Many Britons supported the late Dowager Lady Birdwood and her reactionary views. According to the Daily Telegraph: ‘..Lady Birdwood liked to point out that the orders of medieval kings expelling the Jews from England had never been rescinded, and it was her flagrant anti-Semitism that led to her being convicted in 1991 and 1994 of distributing racialist literature. On the latter occasion, she had posted to every MP her thoughts on the Jewish predilection for drinking the blood of gentile children. She received a two-year conditional discharge..’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1345459/The-Dowager-Lady-Birdwood.html

Every nation has a coterie of extremists and yes, the Dowager never caused the death of anyone ( unlike Noraid and the IRA), but if Heseltine is going to condemn American support for NorAid he should also reflect on the darker side of some sections of British society; Britain also spawned Oswald Mosley and David Irving.

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:43 pm 117. EscapeVelocity:

Its within the realm of possibility that Enlish immigrants to the US will be funding terrorism to take back their homeland from the Muslims.

Wouldnt that be an strange twist of fate?

Oct 8, 2009 - 3:52 pm 118. Tournefort:

Marie Claude,

My POINT in mentioning Revel was that anti-Americanism has been around in one form or another for quite a long time.

Contrary to what many would have had us believe, it was NOT unique to the Bush administration.

Oct 8, 2009 - 4:02 pm 119. D'Artagnan:

@111 Escape in Egoland

http://bokedou-an-hanv.blogspot.com/2009/10/escape-in-scumland.html

Oct 8, 2009 - 4:05 pm 120. Monty-Python:

I wish teh French werent such arseholes with overinflated egos trying to big note themselves by kneecapping American power….

what ? are you serious ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

Oct 8, 2009 - 4:36 pm 121. Tournefort:

“So just WHAT did you Americans do for US again apart from LENDING us money for which you were FULLY repaid???????”

Well, my dad almost gave his life.

He was not expected to survive the injuries he suffered after a German attack. But, survive he did and, after several months recovering in a hospital in Glasgow, returned to a state-side hospital and eventually to my soon-to-be mom.

The effects of those injuries grew over time and he had to have several surgeries to deal with them over the years.

Sometimes he talked a bit about the war.
A constant refrain was how much suffering he saw, how sorry he felt for everyone and how proud he was to have “done his part” to help them and to serve his country.

Over 50 years later, shortly before his death at age 81, not even the ravages of dementia wiped out the memories of his narrow escape during WW2. He would awaken at night, clinching his fists, gritting his teeth, and say “I made it back, didn’t I?”

Would it have been “enough” if he hadn’t?

Or would you still ask “WHAT did you
Americans do for us”?

Attitudes like yours make me grateful my dad isn’t around to read them.

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:15 pm 122. Marie Claude:

118 Tournefort,

of course it was there, but not as global as it was suggered by Revel, some were politically oriented anti-americans, communists first, otherwise anti-americanism is also displayed by some teachers and papers, though groundly the french population isn’t radically anti-americans, depends on the political topics. But it increased during the last decade, though not as violent as anti-french was echoed in american MSM and blogs. It’s only a couple of years that I can talk to American conservatives and Republicains, and it’s still not easy, I am still the target of remnent clichés, and sometimes, of hate ; though it does get better, when persons happen to know me better.

Now, I would like to thank Harry, who brought some kind of fresh air in the debate

http://armees.com/Soutien-de-l-armee-francaise-a-l.html

he can watch a video of what the french soldiers make in afghanistan, and there a few more on the site

Oct 8, 2009 - 5:29 pm 123. Anonymous:

Our fighters didn’t belong in the same sky with the ME 109 and the Spitfire; the Mustang was underpowered

Actally the best allied fighter was neither the Spitfore nor the Mustand but the Corsair. Of course it came very late in the war. Also the original Mustand wasn’t underrpowered as the Allsion engine was more powerful tan the Merlin at low altitude. That was fine for Mustang’s original role: not a fighter bit a ground attack plane. What teh Melin broughht was the high pperforamnce at lmatitude needed to amke a fighter version from the Mustang.

Also lets remind that better aerodynamics made the Mustang much faster than Spitfires using the same engine

Oct 8, 2009 - 11:04 pm 124. JFM:

Our fighters didn’t belong in the same sky with the ME 109 and the Spitfire; the Mustang was underpowered

Actally the best allied fighter was neither the Spitfore nor the Mustand but the Corsair. Of course it came very late in the war. Also the original Mustand wasn’t underrpowered as the Allsion engine was more powerful tan the Merlin at low altitude. That was fine for Mustang’s original role: not a fighter bit a ground attack plane. What teh Melin broughht was the high pperforamnce at lmatitude needed to amke a fighter version from the Mustang.

Also lets remind that better aerodynamics made the Mustang much faster than Spitfires using the same engine

Oct 8, 2009 - 11:05 pm 125. JFM:

For the Sherman it was a decent tank for its original role: killing infantry. Fighting tanks was supposed to be tank destroyer’s job. Problm is that it was soon evident that it was a hare-brained scheme and Shermans were pitted against Tighers and Panther whose armor was weeeell beyond what Sherman’s gun (primarily an anti-infantry gun) could tackle.

For all of its deficiencies the Sherman was several leagues better than anything produced by the British whose efforts at building and producing tanks (Crusaders, Vanlentines, Cromwellls, Churchills) can be described as a waste of resources and their designs as pathetic.

Oct 9, 2009 - 2:13 am 126. tommy gunn:

Quit allowing these idiots at pajamas media to stir the pot. They throw out the bait and all of us kill each other for their journalistic hubris. Give it a rest. I am tired of these blogger ego maniacs.

Brits are our friends by and large. However all of us have been hijacked by the liberal media and this is particularly true in Europe. Who is stirring the pot of Anti Americanism in Europe? Just take a look at the BBC rubbish. Not to mention this pajama media gig which stirs up the pot rather well too.

We are fighting some real wars now and all this is divisive not to mention BS.

Tommy Gunn

Oct 9, 2009 - 3:11 am 127. overhere:

Whether Britain has a special relationship with The US is immaterial, or very soon will be.

Your president (how amusing you rushed to vote in a man like the amazingly inept Obama and now puzzled why you were so hasty, but I admit he does bow well before the Saudis) does not want a special relationship with the UK, if one ever existed. That much is evident. We accept here that Britain is largely lost in a mire of Socialist dogmas — funny how you did not notice over there and get an idea of what lies ahead for the States with your cute choice of pompous king — and we are grateful to all the help we in these islands had over the years and the sacrifices made by US service people. Heseltine is a washed out has-been ona boring TV show but he is entitled to his opinion, but not one shared by everyone here, thankfully.

So now America is free of any UK ties to form special relationships with a variety of left-wing, misogynistic and hateful despots all over the world.

Enjoy, but please don’t be too shocked when some of your new ‘friends’ turn out to be less than reliable and astonishingly dishonest with you.

Oct 9, 2009 - 4:03 am 128. Marie Claude:

JFM

I thought that your speciality was “fishes and ships” ?

Oct 9, 2009 - 6:28 am 129. mags:

Poor citizen,
The people of the island of Ireland have spoken.The Good Friday agreement.The ballot box not the bomb.

The proposals included plans for a Northern Ireland assembly with a power-sharing executive, new cross-border institutions involving the Irish Republic and a body linking devolved assemblies across the UK with Westminster and Dublin.
The Irish Republic also DROPPED its constitutional claim to the six counties which form Northern Ireland.
A copy of the Agreement was posted to every household in Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic and put to referendums the following May, which gave them substantial support by 74% and 94% respectively.

Who are you supporting? What fighting Irish?

The people of Ireland don’t want terrorism it is them that has won.

Recent events have shown they are united on this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7936691.stm

Vietnam? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry,please study our history before dropping dollars for ‘the cause’ while singing danny boy.

Oct 9, 2009 - 8:00 am 130. JFM:

Maric Claude

Don’t mix specialists and experts: Experts are people who know a lot about a subject. Specialists are people who are crass ignorant on everything but one subject. I a lma en expert not a specialist.

Oct 9, 2009 - 9:15 am 131. mags:

115. Donna V.:
The point Hestletine was making was to remind us that this ’special relationship’ did not include I.R.A terrorism.
You had a special relationship with the irish terrorists.

Support of terrorism includes governments that allow it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1465288/Majors-fury-over-US-visa-for-Adams.html
Is that ’special’ or this,
http://usproxy.bbc.com/2/hi/48407.stm

Even comments to me are backing the terrorists acts. Over this issue we do not have a special relationship.
Hestletine is right ,the U.S has this type of relationship with Israel.
I have never seen any condemnation of acts carried out by Israel to terrorists that i have read above about the U.K.

Oct 9, 2009 - 9:18 am 132. Marie Claude:

130 JFM,

That’s why I made the relation with “cooking”

of course you’re an expert, weren’t you a Navy man ?

Oct 9, 2009 - 10:01 am 133. Blackwell:

JFM:

Amazing that we’re here commenting on equipment from 60 years ao but here goes:

My point was that US was way behind the Brits when Pearl Harbor hit. We were lucky. Lucky the Brits bought us time. Lucky to get their cavity magnetron devices for radar. Lucky to get their code breaking stuff. Lucky they didn’t make a disgraceful separate peace.

No one should minimize what the Brits did, how lucky we were they did it, and how poorly prepared we were.

The Mustang was designed by NA for the Britsh–not the US which was ignorantly satisfied with its heavy P-40’s and P-47’s and useless Aircobras, which were outdated by 1940. The Mustang was ignored by the US for serious fighter work until someone suggested the Merlin be installed. The Mustang was not some purposeful design by the US military. It was an accident.

True enough that the Sherman was better than what the British were using, but it was no world beater either and its limited scope function-atatcking infantry–ignored reality and the german use of tanks in 1939. Tank crews suffered as a result and only when the US had air superiority did we beat back german tanks. The serious deficiencies of the Sherman were not fixed until 1945 when new US and Brit tanks appeared.

I cannot abide the Pragmatist’s bitter anti-american screeds, but I cannot abide either, the people who minimize what Britain did. It was magnificent. (I have no british ancestry so far as I know).

Oct 9, 2009 - 10:44 am 134. mags:

133. Blackwell:
I truly appreciate your words about Britain in ww2.
We do not dispute what America did but for it to be formed as ‘we saved you,now you owe us forever’ is a little much.

We are proud of our history. WW2 is on the school curriculum.
My ten year old son and his class recently invited their grandparents(who fought in the war)to a tea dance.
The children had learnt all the war songs,and the dances,not a dry eye in the place.My son wearing his grandfathers medals.

I show him ,now 87yrs old,fought the Germans what he thinks of the comments being made here by American’s.
The response, true bewilderment,then saddness these aren’t the Americans he knew,then realisation that this is how some Americans now feel about WW2.
The response then is ,we paid you back.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/article1264220.ece

Oct 9, 2009 - 12:01 pm 135. Robinsolana:

A lot of this seems to be picking at minor flaws.

Between us, Britain and United States, have done rather well. In both Iraq and Afghanistan our troops have fought hard and done well together. Since I have read a lot of WWII history this seems like the proper way to do things. I also read a lot of Ike, and he worked very hard at this.
It’s the going forward part that’s a little dicey. We have had some great leaders who worked together; Winny and FDR, Thatcher and Ronny, Bush and Blair, but now we have our post-American leader dissing the Brits and of course we get it back from some Tory Lord Euro-trash who we should just start off by forgetting. We may be in for a rough patch.

Sorry, I don’t want to give the special relationship up. I’m an Anglo-sphere kinda guy. Too much good has come out of our special relationship to the throw it all away. My uncle flew 25 missions over Germany. I know who told who not to go ‘wobbly’. I like the sound of the Queen’s English spoken in Mingora, with a crisp accent I will never manage.

Grow up children, can’t we all just get along.

Oct 10, 2009 - 8:25 pm 136. Avi Rosenberg:

Carol Gould,

As someone who spends her entire life churning out spiteful fictional drivel about all the abuse you recieve and how much you hate living in the United Kingdom – yet who isn’t kept here against her will – don’t you just think that your latest epistle of hate is more than a little hypocritical?

Yes – we remind American’s about NorAid and the thousands of lives lost to American funded bombs, but has that stopped us being the United States’ most loyal ally? Did it cause a diplomatic incident when Edward Kennedy, former fundraiser in chief for NorAid and who has the blood of thousands of innocent British people on his hands – was given a state funeral at the very same time that the American media were castigating us for showing compassion to a dying man?

Why do we mention NorAid? Because arrogant halfwits like you continually bang on about the eternal gratitude you want us to show for something that happened two generations ago, whilst expecting us to blindly ignore something that was still going on little more than a decade ago.

As Jew, I won’t even start on what I think about your preposterous claims about Israel being a beacon of freedom – they are just too fanatical to even credit with a response.

Now how about being honest about the real reason you stay in Britain? Socialised medicine and the fact that you would be too destitute to afford treatment for your many ailments if you went back to live in the United States – so instead you stay here and vent all your bitterness on the country that offers you unlimited free healthcare and offers yu the freedom of speech to vent that resentment.

On second thoughts – your views on socialized medicine probably wouldn’t go down to well on this site.

Aviad.

Oct 11, 2009 - 7:29 am 137. Avi:

Is there not also a profound irony in the fact that the diatribes written by Carol Gould – who lives in Britain – are almost all what could easily be perceived as bitterly anti-British .. yet she is continually whining about what she sees as anti-Americanism?

She will no doubt argue that she isn’t in the least bit anti-British and that she is simply being critical of certain aspects of life in Britain; but exactly the same is true of all the things that she complains is anti-Americanism.

In Carol Gould’s twisted world of pitiful paranoia, any criticism of any aspect of America, or American policy, is viewed as prejudiced and anti-American – whereas any criticisms she makes are simply an objective commentary.

Any criticism by one person is painted as the widely held opinion of the whole country.

The simple truth is that if a foreigner were sat in America, writing the sort of banal stuff about America that she writes about Britain, then she – and indeed most of the Pajamas audience – would be demanding that persons arrest and deportation from America. I think it is a testament to the tolerance of British society that no one calls for her expulsion.

In the final analysis, the sort of drivel she writes does far more damage to our mutual perceptions of one-an-others countries than any of the largely fictional stuff she writes about – which then begs the question whether creating that sort of divide isn’t exactly what she is setting out to achieve in the first place? And if so, why .. what is her divisive motive?

Does she ever comment on the fact that polls here in Britain persistently, and by a very large margin, show that there is no country in the world that the British have a higher regard for, and identify, with than the United States?

Does she ever comment on the fact that most people in Britain know infinitely more about what is going on in the United States than they do about what is going on a few miles away in mainland Europe?

Does she ever comment on the fact that more Britain’s will visit America than any other country in the world?

If her motives were truly to foster greater understanding between our countries, are these not the sort of things she would be focussing her attentions on .. rather than doing her doing her most excellent to create an impression of a nonexistent great Anglo-American and to create the thoroughly inaccurate impression that Britain is a deeply anti-American country?

Why does she consciously agitate to force people into extremist positions that create the sort of disparaging arguments that have taken place here?

As both a Jew and a Zionist (but not the sort of unquestioning Zionist that she is), I think I know the answers – but I will leave you to make your own minds up.

As a British Jew, I will however give you a clue in the fact that most of our Jewish community here in Britain coexist peacefully with Muslims and give equal priority to both Palestinians and Israelis in their quest for a peaceful and secure future .. and Carol Gould, along with her dear friend Melanie Phillips, REALLY detests that.

Oct 12, 2009 - 3:18 am 138. Avi:

My apologies. In the above, the part of a sentence reading:

“rather than doing her doing her most excellent to create an impression of a nonexistent great Anglo-American”

.. should obviously have read:

“rather than doing her most excellent to create an impression of a nonexistent great Anglo-American DIVIDE”

Oct 12, 2009 - 3:21 am 139. Marie Claude:

Avi, we have Nidra Poller in Paris who writes the same sort of things about us

Oct 12, 2009 - 8:26 am 140. mrrogerj:

I found the article entertaining and thought provoking but anti-Americanism is nothing new. I found all the comments posted even more entertaining!! I’m an American and half my ancestry is British but I feel no loyalty or bonds to Britain save what is owed to it as an ally. Whether a “special relationship” exists or not, historians will have to sort that out. Britain and the US have shared intelligence, technology, etc… There is a saying in the British military, “The Yanks have for us” and so I can understand how one might feel that a special relationship exists. For myself, I’m glad that the British are our allies and one cannot diminish their contributions. Although small in number, they have contributed to Afghanistan and Iraq and they did not get dragged in kicking and screaming. I do find the current attitude among many Brits quite alarming and those same Brits are the ones who denigrate their own troops fighting in the current wars. But, that is no different to the self-loathing Yank of the Michael Moore persuasion who do the exact same to our troops. I’m glad this article was posted and perhaps meaningful discourse can follow (although some are too hair brained to ever change their views). Anti-Americanism is a sick mindset that annoys me to no end. Over the past years, it has become something that many Americans have become fed up with and now many are lashing back. I don’t think that it’s constructive but, neither are anti-American sentiments (most, if not all) are irrationally based on ignorance of the US, it’s people, it’s government, it’s lifestyle, etc…. Having said that, we Americans also need to remember that the British have helped us as we have helped them. It is called an alliance. We must not use a wide brush to paint with as not all Brits are of the liberal anti-American persuasion.

Oct 17, 2009 - 5:12 pm 141. mrrogerj:

133. Blackwell;

The P40’s and Airocobras were only stop-gap measures. Nontheless, the P40’s were used to great effect in the hands of the AVG (Flying Tigers) against the Japanese in China. The P47 was not the useless fighter aircraft that one might think. It made more American aces than the P51 Mustang. It was also far more robust than other fighters in the European theater. There were accounts of German pilots who ran out of ammunition trying to shoot them down and the aircraft still brought the pilot back across the channel. The engine powering the P47 was the most powerful piston engine in the world at that time (Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp, 16 cylinder, air cooled, radial engine providing 2000 HP). The Merlin engine was introduced into the Mustang at the suggestion of a British officer who noted that the airframe was more capable than what the Allison engine allowed. I believe it was Bell (don’t quote me on that as I am going by memory) that did some fine tuning of the Merlin and managed to squeeze an additional 250 horsepower out of that engine and it was that variant that powered later versions of the Spitfires and Mustangs. I believe that the Merlin ended up providing something along the lines of 1750 HP after it was fine tuned. For those who are sticklers to details, they may google up the specs. The US also had the P38 Lightning, another phenomenal aircraft that had very long range. Why it wasn’t used for fighter escort in the European theater, I’m not sure. It was mostly relegated to operations in N. Africa. The P38 was the aircraft that scored more kills in the Pacific theater than any other US aircraft. An extremely capable aircraft with lots of firepower, durability, range, and speed. We were certainly unprepared for that war but we weren’t too far behind the British. Much of our equipment were on blueprints and just lacked funding. In some areas, the British were ahead. In other areas, they were behind (carrier born operations and naval damage control are just two that come to mind). The US Navy had always been excellent at battle damage control but our carrier born operations, although efficient, it was still lagging behind the Japanese. The British and American cooperation in WW2 was mutually beneficial and has been something that still continues today. I would like to see that continue. It was mutually beneficial before, I trust it will continue to be so.

Oct 17, 2009 - 6:37 pm

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