201 Comments

1. Jewels (AKA Julian):

Such a Civilized Continent. I am never going there again

Jan 14, 2009 - 10:53 am 2. susan:

If you pay attention closely, nowadays the leading part of the antijew action is either run by communists or muslims. Nazi nostalgic (who notoriously don’t breed like rats and keep their number stable) aren’t the problem.

I boycott the left and the muslims and if more people did the same those problems would decrease. Act with your money.

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:04 am 3. Anton:

I wonder how many of these acts are caused by persons with more than a generation of residence on the European continent, and how many are recent arrivals from countries with long standing emnity toward Israel and the Hebrew religion. That is not to say that Europeans don’t have a long and shameful record of anti-semitism.

Perhaps at least some of this activity is productof those same “youths” that seem to delight in hating the lands they have moved to.

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:09 am 4. Anton:

susan, I’m glad others have noticed that Red and Green seem to go together. I’m with you on shunning both of these.

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:11 am 5. Sylvie:

Of course France and Britain would top the List when France is already commonly known as Eurabia and Britain’s capital is now known as Londonistan. Both have unfortunately lost their true identities and pathetically neither seem to mind it. But where have the Napoleons, Nelsons and Churchills gone? Guess we’ll find them embedded in some old history books……..

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:51 am 6. susan:

anton, it’s really really sad for me to admit that the jews are more or less the source of their own demise.

Marx was a jew (he was also a self loather antisemitic) and he laid the path to marxism, which is the base of political correctness that’s now killing the jews.

I am also aware that some jews in western countries tend to vote left and I think it’s suicidal.

An american historian tried to find an explanation and came up with “oslo syndrome” which is a corollary of stockholm syndrome.
————————
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Levin

In an article entitled, “Transforming the Jewish Psyche,” journalist Warren Kozak discussed Levin’s analysis of the modern “penchant for self-denigration among Jewish people.” Kozak summarized that “Dr. Levin, no sixth grade thinker, tells us that after centuries of hearing grotesque lies about Jewish people, that narrative hasn’t just rubbed off on anti-Semites, but on some Jews as well.” In an interview with the Jerusalem Post, Manfred Gerstenfeld praised Levin’s Oslo Syndrome for bringing to light “this phenomenon of identifying with one’s besiegers.”

Levin told an interviewer that he wrote The Oslo Syndrome to explain “why Israel’s leaders, supported by the nation’s academic and cultural elites and much of the broader population, were pursuing a course that was demonstrably placing the nation, including their own families, at dire risk.”

Levin’s original contribution is that the syndrome can afflict an entire people. The concept has passed into common usage in discussions of the Middle East. For example, “To insist otherwise is to risk repeating the Oslo syndrome of Palestinian deception and Israeli self-deception.”
—————–

Situation is more complicated than one might think. When you have ruthless people with no culture, no history, no dignity and respect (not even for themselves), either you are strong and resoluted or you die.

And ironically, all the jews I met by chance in my life (2-3) were never my favourite people, but how stupid can you be in favouring a bunch of low-life criminals to others that have greatly contributed to the development of science and medicine, culture and art?

I cannot believe that people do not take this into consideration when they decide whose side to be on.

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:52 am 7. TalkinKamel:

Yes, the Red and the Green are both allies in this matter. So much for the progressive, tolerant, supposedly compassionate Left.

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:53 am 8. TalkinKamel:

Boycott the Left. That includes Hollywood, these days.

As I recall, the Left actually supported Nazi Germany during WWII, while Hitler and Stalin were allies. It was only when Hitler attacked Russia, “The motherland”, that they suddenly realized, oh, gosh wow, Nazis aren’t nice!

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:55 am 9. jm:

northern europe, the house of the vikings and jew haters. because, at the moment anyway, there’s a hatred so thick, you could cut it with the knife. that’s the reality. and no correctional agenda could turn it upside down.

just as a side-note: i really do not think americans could fathom the intensity and the width this kind of hatred occupies in the minds and the will of people, all too many around the world regard as the most civilized of all the developed nations in the world.

soerens article hardly skims the surface…

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:00 pm 10. Sylvie:

The World always did love the underdog.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:04 pm 11. Craig:

susan…love your no-nonsense responses to the driveby liberals here at PJM. I’m surprised you don’t have your own blog. Fire one up.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:10 pm 12. Hamas_secrets:

So..not much progress in the last 70 years, I see?

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:14 pm 13. jerryofva:

Adolph Hitler was infatuated by Islam. He saw it as fighting faith much akin to National Socialism.

National Socialism was a collectivist ideology built around the myth of Aryan Supremacy.

Collectivism built on a myth is called Fascism.

The Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the scientific socialism are the governing myths of socialism.

Socialism is a collectivist ideology built around a central organizing myth. Socialism is just another form of Fascism.

What does this have to with anti-Semitism in Europe?

Euro-Socialists have the same fascination with Islam as did the Nazis. They have chosen to make common cause with them to exterminate Jews and destroy Christianity just as Hitler did.

Euro-Socialists and their American counterparts are anti-Semitic and not merely anti-Israel. They are the new neo-Nazis.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:18 pm 14. Boojum:

These people cannot seperate Jews from Israelis. Everything is seen through the filter of religion. Everything.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:20 pm 15. TalkinKamel:

and, yet, most Europeans are determindly secular, and not especially religious these days.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:25 pm 16. Hugh:

This is why I say Israel needs to completely ignore the call for a cease fire from the “International Community”. Israel, the I.C. doesn’t have your back. Do what you have to do in Gaza to protect your countrymen and don’t worry about their silly outcries. All the European countries act like they would strike back if 6,000 missiles over 3 years were falling in their cities. Political Correctness will continue to destroy Europe.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:25 pm 17. Taos:

But how can Europeans, who famously pride themselves on being more sophisticated than everyone else

Heh. They spent half the last century slaughtering each other by the tens of millions. When it comes to mass murder, genocide of religious minorities, and dumb and dangerous idealogies like communism and fascism, they are indeed more sophisticated than the rest of us.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:28 pm 18. Psychobarb:

Testing 1, 2, 3

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:30 pm 19. Psychobarb:

9. jm:

“northern europe, the house of the vikings and jew haters. i really do not think americans could fathom the intensity and the width this kind of hatred occupies in the minds and the will of people, all too many around the world regard as the most civilized of all the developed nations in the world.”

jm: My comment on the above: Having lived in the UK during a time of rising anti-Israel hatred, and having observed Paris and France burn in, was it 2006, I think Americans, most American Jews would be surprised to learn the same thing may be going on in their own back yards, or at least on their local college campuses or coffee shops, ie, anywhere where LEFT WING politics take center stage.

I used to think Europeans were inherently anti-Semitic. If this were the case then why is the former easter bloc, home to Ukranians and Lithuanians who abetted the Nazis, more pro American, and pro Israel, now?

We have to admit the transformation of anti-Semitism to something on the LEFT. Many of my brethren refuse to see this.

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:37 pm 20. shortsshortsshorts:

And I don’t understand why the Jews in the U.S. keep voting for Democrats. IT IS A SHADOW JEWISH AGENDA.

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:05 pm 21. Marie Claude:

psychobarb,

I used to think Europeans were inherently anti-Semitic. If this were the case then why is the former easter bloc, home to Ukranians and Lithuanians who abetted the Nazis, more pro American, and pro Israel, now?

they are no less than the other western EU nations, just that they show more interest in American and Israeli investments in their countries, while we don’t need them

but, your right on the LEFT, though I would rather say “anti-sionnism”

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:08 pm 22. jerryofva:

Psychobarb:

Anti-Semitism is a leftwing/progressive disease. Socialism is just another form of fascism. That said, genocidal behavior is not intrinsic to Fascism. It is Fascism combined with utopianism that leads to mass murder. Mussolini, Franco and Salazar were Fascists but not utopians. They were not anti-Semites although Mussolini officially adopted Nazi-like racial laws he never deported Italian Jews to Germany and the Italian military went out its way to protect Jews from the Germans and local Fascist sympathizers in the Balkans. Italian Jews were deported only after Italy surrendered and the Germans occupied the unliberated part of Italy. Franco rescued Jews throughout Europe and Salazar supported the allies in the war and Portugal was haven for European Jews.

Utopianism is the true instigator of genocide. There was an original Star Trek episode where the Enterprise encountered an altered space probe called “Nomad.” The original Nomad probe encountered some form of alien technology that altered its programming to search out perfection and destroy imperfection. It was an allegory on the pursuit of Utopia. Just as Nomad sterilized imperfection the human utopian seeks to eliminate people who are obstacles to their vision. All utopians are Fascists but not all Fascists are Utopians. The Environmental movement is the latest manifestation of utopianism and it is more dangerous then either Nazism or Communism. At least these doctrines were human-centric. Eco-ism is centered on the non-human, even the inanimate. It has the capacity to murder far more humans then any previous ideology in human history. Utopians are basically sociopaths who use ideology to mask their true intent…murder on a grand scale.

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:11 pm 23. J.J. Sefton:

I feel for the remaining Jews of Europe. I think the time will come yet again for a massive rescue operation and deliver them from a continent that has been Judaism’s mass grave.

As for the “enlightened” Europeans, if they are all so incensed by a horrible, pariah state bent on global domination, why not just declare war on Israel? Probably would get their collective keisters reamed by the IDF.

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:26 pm 24. ahad ha'amoratsim:

susan, Marx may have been born Jewish but he was not raised Jewish. His father Heinrich converted to Lutheranism, and when Karl Marx was about 154, his father married a Christian. According to wikipedia, Heinrich was also a big fan of Voltaire. Voltaire’s contempt for Jews and Judaism are no secret.

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:36 pm 25. shortsshortsshorts:

Srsly it’s like all of Europe is Commie-Nazis. AND WE ARE ALLIED WITH THESE COUNTRIES? WE ARE ESSENTIALLY KILLING THE JEWS.

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:38 pm 26. David H:

Come on please don’t tar all us Europeans as anti-Semite, my French in laws sheltered Jews in their hotel during WWII at great risk to themselves, look at the courage of the Danes in saving thousands of Jews. Many of us are supporting Israel regardless of the anti-semitism of the MSM and it is unravelling as more people are seeing through it and blogs are part of the reason for that.

The majority of the attacks on Jews are carried out by the new Europeans, not by people like me, what can I say, or do, my heart, my head supports Israel and I am disgusted by the way these fascists were allowed to call for the death of Jews living in Europe without a single arrest carried out, I am livid and what is more the two faced attitude of our politicians are plain to see, for example that idiot Sarkozy said 0% tolerance for anti semitism and Islamophobia, oh really, yeah really…

Jan 14, 2009 - 1:53 pm 27. Marie Claude:

well the France2 “hoax” seems to becme “honey-able” for quite a few enlightened bloggers, the TV channel apologised, though it must investigate for the “guilties”, knowing that the kind of channel hosts quite a lots of medias-school trainees, one of them might have been “bad” intentionned

http://www.lefigaro.fr/medias/2009/01/06/04002-20090106ARTFIG00380-gaza-france-piegee-par-des-images-de-propagande-.php

“This time, Jewish and Muslim leaders were swift to appeal for calm in their communities. The rector of the mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, issued a statement Monday calling for “vigilance against all forms of provocation, wherever they may come from.”

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/12/europe/france.php

Jan 14, 2009 - 2:00 pm 28. susan:

yes, but he can still hate his jewish backround

Found something interesting on wikipedia

In a letter to Engels, Marx referred to Ferdinand Lasalle as a “Jewish Nigger”.

Wow, it can’t get better than this: the founder of marxism being a full blown antisemitic racist.

Gotta use it as a bomb on leftist idiots.

Jan 14, 2009 - 2:00 pm 29. Cybergeezer:

Europe is screwed; Too late to dig a moat between them and the muslims.

Jan 14, 2009 - 2:11 pm 30. Jm:

NPR has been doing a series this week, let’s see Monday it was about how racist Germany is, this morning it was about how racist France is…

Yet somehow, America is the most racist…HA!

Jan 14, 2009 - 2:38 pm 31. Marie Claude:

ahad ha’amoratsim

“According to wikipedia</B, Heinrich was also a big fan of Voltaire. Voltaire’s contempt for Jews and Judaism are no secret.”

so, your deduction is that Voltaire is anti-semit, like one understands it nowadays ? though, if you’d known all the writings of Voltaire, you would also know that he was against ANY religion, and one should put his polemics back into their context.

Volaire’s writing were reflecting the consensual feeling of Europe and America at his times, I suppose you could also investigate if all the polemists that lived then, were virgin of anti-semitism, except Voltaire !!!

if he wasn’t such a “respectable” person then I am surprised that at least 2 famous american founders of America hold him as their favorite inspirator, Benjamin Franklin and Jefferson, one would ask then why they show their inclination for an avered anti-semit, even even they wrote on him.

Voltaire was a polemist, he was “harsh” on any religion.

he also wrote “Fanaticism, or Mahomet the Prophet” , a play that had been contested lately by Muslims

http://uniset.ca/terr/news/wsj_voltaire_mohammed.html

but I suspect that you want to abound with one more exemple of all the Frenchs being anti-semits by their culture and volterian atheism (though, Voltaire was a Deist, that’s how the Americans read him, humm is-it a new attempt of saying Kristollian truths ?

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:00 pm 32. mountainaires:

More than 1,000 people have been slaughtered in Gaza, after they were starved nearly to death for the past 3 years. Thousands more maimed; families cannot even bury their dead. IDF is firing on people they are evacuating who are waving white flags. At least 50% of those slaughtered have been innocent civilians. IDF firing on ambulances; doctors and medics being killed trying to provide medical care. No medical or food supplies allowed in by IDF; and Israel is now saying that Hamas will survive it all. What, after all, was the point, except for bloodshed? Has Israel gained any international sympathy? Has Israel gained any international credibility? It’s insane. It’s depraved. Israelis and Jews everywhere will be considered international pariahs. The Israeli Tourism Fair in France has been cancelled. Jews everywhere will only be in greater danger of anti-semitism. For what? This is insane.

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:09 pm 33. Marie Claude:

ahad ha’amoratsim

do you find odd that the “french revolution” congessists gave, the firsts, the french citizenship to the Jews in Europe and America, since then they could apply for a political, or military career, teaching, writings… how do you think France has the biggest jewish community in Europe ? because the other european countries gave them the same righ more than 60 years later, ie 1860 for UK

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:18 pm 34. Maverick:

It’s easy to see why Europeans think the way they do. Anyone who has vacationed or served in the military knows Europeans believe they are the center of the Universe. Anyway they believe and everything they do is done so because they were born in Europe and nothing more needs to be said. Everything is better in Europe. The air, the food, the wine, the country, and their politics. They will argue will you until the sun goes down about nothing and hears nothing but the own sound of their voice. They all dress alike and they all think the same way. To dress different means your of lower class and to think differently means you do not believe as the collective does about issues and politics. Europeans love to go to Bistro’s at night and discuss issues of the day. Politics are a popular topic. If you disagree, your shouted down or asked to leave by the manager of the Bistro. Whatever country your in, you must think as they do about issues and politics. It’s the national thing to do. If you don’t, the people will label you a communist or a Jew. In Europe, anything can be overblown from a protest to rioting in the streets. Europeans are the most emotional people you will ever meet. They are easily provoked and will forget their jobs and their families in a minute to pick up a red flag to wave around. In America we aren’t so easily provoke to attack religious groups because of what we see and hear. American’s don’t attack and destroy innocent civilians because we’re driven by what the media reports. Propaganda has never had a grip on American’s the way propaganda has had on Europeans. Free will to believe what we want and our free will not to destroy is what draws peoples from all over the world to come to this country. If there’s one thing Europe still has a lot of are communist. Not the communist of old, but the new and improved communist who has changed their appearance to be what the national look is. The communist of old had no place to go, so they blended in with the International Red Cross, Amnesty International, organizations who went into countries with humanitarian aid. Europe is antisemitic and like always, they’re turning away from what is happening and allowing antisemitism to happen without a fight. Just like they did with Hitler. Europeans will never admit to a blind eye until another Hitler in another form pops up, because they are prime for another holocaust.

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:24 pm 35. Cybergeezer:

The main stream media, such as Associated Press, Reuters, is guilty of war crimes. They claim that half the casualties in Gaza are civilians. If they can make this determination, they should be working alongside the Israeli’s to point out who is civilian and who is combatant. If they cannot, they are guilty of sensationalism and false reporting.

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:35 pm 36. ThinkingPerson:

mountainaires…..What would you have Israel do? Negotiate with Hamas AGAIN only to have them keep firing rockets daily? They have been patient too long and for once, should finish what they start until Hamas is destroyed if not physically, then mentally to the citizens of Gaza. You have been watching too much news. The vocal anti-Israel minority gets all the press/attention. What about the rest of the world that is hoping Israel can put an end to the misery Hamas has caused them for YEARS? Hamas is unfortunately hiding in schools and hospitals so the casualties will deliberately be high. Is that the type of group you’d like to make a treaty with? Think past today and into the future.

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:39 pm 37. cedarford:

Part of the unpleasant truth is Jews and Israel once got much more support than they did once Occupation and the colonizing of new Settlements started….but there is more to it than that. Reasons why besides Israel, Borders – their problems require both a new charm offensive AND organic changes to their actions.

In recent decades, Jews have displayed a gift for making enemies that go far past just “Europeans on the Left and Muslims”. These “image problems” originate from wealthy and powerful Jews making lives of ordinary people more difficult – all while in a sort of rut as they order people, economies, mass lawsuits, and even nations to various agendas – claiming in a passive-aggressive way that they are history’s Greatest and Most Helpless Victims..

It doesn’t do Jews much good to be suing right and Left as the Greatest Victims or on behalf of other Victims – if the rest of the world sees a sea of Jewish faces in the ranks of the ranks of the Russian oligarchs, the power brokers of Washington, Israeli arms merchants in Africa, the financiers that collapsed SE Asian currencies, the criminal, human rights, and terrorist rights lawyers operating globally to advocate things that increase the danger the average citizen in Britain or Columbia or Kenya feels.

It doesn’t help Jews when the world’s financial markets melt down and the world then is told that nothing will be done for 5 days because it’s the Jewish holidays and so many key people demanding bailouts, regulators who missed acting, prominent US politicians and economists involved are Jewish that any rescue plan has to wait on the Jews involved.
It doesn’t help that most of the major cons and scams in the financial world in the last 30 years have involved powerful Jews as principals or enablers.

In short, Jews have a real problem and a good part of it is self-induced, not some “irrational, groundless sickness of bigotry”.
Like some Thai with half his life savings gone to London speculators and George Soros delusionally feels. Or past victims of prominent Jewish communists. Or participants in a Japanese pension plan hard-hit by Holocaust lawyers over some European investments they held for 40 years with no legal challenge..Enron employees and investors hit in that con game learning that Fast Andy Fastow family members who devised the offshore scam had their passports confiscated to prevent their flight to Israel.

Not good…..

Statements by Likudniks like Sharon and Netanyahu that they just snap their fingers and American Congress reps dependent on AIPAC money come to heel like good dogs? Very bad, and humiliating for the USA that the remarks on US obedience were leaked to a global audience that believes them 100% – whether true (Sharon) or vehemently denied (Netanyahu). Ranks of the Neocons full of Jews wanting US soldiers to start and die in 6-7 new wars to “save freedom lovers, help Israel, or stop human rights violations” outside US vital interests? Not good.

And maybe Jews need to realize that they have much in common with the Palestinians – the widely hated careerist “Special Victims” of the Muslim World. Maybe get some guidance on making friends in reflecting on why Palestinians are so hated by the average non-Palestinian Arab.

A Syrian family on vacation in Bahrain in the early 90s told us US and Brit military people about life in Syria, then mentioned the Palestinians with more and more venom…..the kernel of it – “Greatest Victims, yet they live better than us Syrians, live off the sweat of others, have the world’s sympathy and get all sorts of free stuff, including college in Europe and preferential Visas..Always stirring up trouble in our country. And they demand that Syrians shed blood for them, with nothing in it for Syrians…simply because they say all Arabs “owe them”…but we don’t. We would be better off rid of them..”

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:45 pm 38. maxine:

There is this quotation” he who does not understand history is forced to repeat it” check your history….. all the countries in the past who persacuted the jews fell. All the people who condoned or did not speak out, eventually had to fight for their lives…..E.G… nazi germany . there is another quotation … When they came for the Jew… no one spoke out,When they came for the Catholic no one spoke out…. when they came for the protesant .. no one spoke out..;..; Now they are coming for me and there is no one left to speak.

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:52 pm 39. Psychobarb:

A couple of comments about Europe. Remember, they were all serfs and do not enjoy the freedom Americans have. Currently in the UK they pay huge taxes and for what? To listen to Brussels? They were amazed that two men vying for President went to Town Halls to talk to people. Can you imagine a Jaques Chirac doing that?

People could tell I was an American before I opened my mouth. I suspose I walk with purpose and expect service. I am not rude but to the point and am not particularly deferential.

In Europe, saving face, is maximum. Very cordial in public, but you can be stabbed in the back in a twrice. Many times the British would comment on how good Americans are when they visit here.

Also, the Europeans have a comical view of America, very silly and adolescent. Not at all sophisticated or nuanced.

Go figure.

Jan 14, 2009 - 4:52 pm 40. Psychobarb:

Also, I believe Europe is poorer for having deported and killed its Jews.

If Jews leave, G-d forbid, Britain or France, they will be poorer still.

Countries who force out their Jews lose.

Jan 14, 2009 - 4:56 pm 41. Psychobarb:

Maire Claude:

Very good point about Poland and new EU countries needing American and Israeli investment. Same is true with India.

But isn’t this the way, business breaking down barriers.

Some in the US thought the US Dubai ports deal had benefits.

When Arab countries are making money, they modernize.

Jan 14, 2009 - 4:59 pm 42. Cybergeezer:

38. maxine;
Is that the muslim speaking?

Jan 14, 2009 - 5:11 pm 43. Marie Claude:

#34,

“The air, the food, the wine, the country”
… that’s true, we don’t like hamburgers, colas sodas, red bull… and wouldn’t like to live in a country where we could only afford them, cuz the “right” restaurants are too expensive, while they still are affordable here (for how long ?)

“They all dress alike”
…in the army though

“Europeans love to go to Bistro’s at night and discuss issues of the day. Politics are a popular topic. If you disagree, your shouted down or asked to leave by the manager of the Bistro. Whatever country your in, you must think as they do about issues and politics. It’s the national thing to do. If you don’t, the people will label you a communist or a Jew.” I protest, it’s rather “connard” !!!

In Europe, anything can be overblown from a protest to rioting in the streets.”

hmmm, where ???? tell your not thinking of France LMAO !!!

the old commies are in the educational system, the new commies in the humanitarian associations…

hmmm, what I read from your post is that you never step out of your casern bar, with american medias clichés discussions !!!!

Jan 14, 2009 - 5:24 pm 44. mike:

Hey cedarford. I guess what your saying is that the Jews sort of have it coming to them? When I read of these same scandals, it never occurred to me to discover their ethnicity/religion. That’s the whole point, isn’t it?

Jan 14, 2009 - 5:33 pm 45. Marie Claude:

Psychobarb,

“When Arab countries are making money, they modernize”

yes, the Saudi too, in Dubai they are apparently “modern” though not in their behaviour !!! they still rape the youngs, the foreigners…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21575434/

Jan 14, 2009 - 5:44 pm 46. Sgt. Mom:

Somehow I just don’t think that full-blown Jew-hatred ever really took hold in the US. (insert sarcasm tag) Probably has held us back from really being Euro-civilized, dontcha know. (end sarcasm tag). I wrote a meditation on this a couple of years ago on The Daily Brief.
http://www.ncobrief.com/index.php/archives/natural-sympathies/
We know ‘of’ antisemitism’ – but I don’t think most Americans really ‘know’ full blown, kill-the-jews, pogram-style antisemitism.

Jan 14, 2009 - 5:54 pm 47. fmw:

The link to the “opinion poll in Germany” links to some shady website who quotes an poll (without link of course) from 2004.
Now thats great journalism!
And whats that crap about the european left wanting to “eradicate Judeo-Christian influences”?? Have you ever been to europe??

I dont deny there is antisemitism in europe, and its a shame there is.
But dont you guys in the commentaries act as if you in the US where over with that kind of things, i wonder if your outrage is that big when some cops beat up a black kid again!

Israel has the financial, military and media support of the most powerful nation(s) on earth and they have been using it to suppress and humiliate the Palestinians for decades, yet they want to be and ARE seen as the victims of this conflict.. unbelievable.

I sure am not questioning Israels right to exist, they do it themselves by acting as a rogue state terrorising a whole people.

I’m not saying everything the Palestinians do is right, in fact they do lots of sh**, but what chances do they have to fight for their cause?

They have no military, no power and no lobby (whatever the opinions amongst european citizens are, all european governments clearly support Israel).

The Israelis have their land, their state, an economy, a military and the freedom to go from one city to the other in their own land.

The Palestinians have to be supplied with food from humanitarian organisations right now, imagin that happening in Israel!

Jan 14, 2009 - 6:42 pm 48. harry:

As long as there is someone to spread the jihad ideology peace is impossible. Europe took in those that the middle east regurgitated and now you are paying the price of your liberalism. How does it feel?
If Israel ever goes down you cowards would only say a few words for the many thousands that will die because Israel’s enemy is composed of animals and they will slaughter without discretion. So go on and demonstrate because I know you are cowards and can’t fight. Even worse you can’t even defend yourselves! Rogers and Ebert gave movies a double thumbs up, I give you two different fingers, guess which ones.

Jan 14, 2009 - 7:37 pm 49. Marie Claude:

harry,

http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sarkounef320×452us7.jpg

Jan 14, 2009 - 8:14 pm 50. fred:

All of the variant offspring of Marxism are in league with Islam to destroy Jews, Christianity, and Western Civilization. They are a plague upon humanity and it is my hope that increasingly more and more people will note and understand this alliance of these two totalitarianisms.

It isn’t just in Europe. It’s in North America too. One of the reasons why I eventually left the Marxist Left in 1987 – among many reasons personal and intellectual – was the Jew hatred of those people. I had to constantly and determinedly defend Jews and Israel from assaults against them. This was during the Seventies and Eighties. Some of the people I defended Jews and Israel against these ideological assaults WERE ETHNIC JEWS!

These people hate God. They hate Jews and Israel. They hate Christianity and the foundations of our civilization from Rome and Greece on up to the first part of the Enlightenment.

Some day we may just have enough of them and do what has to be done.

Jan 14, 2009 - 8:25 pm 51. Brian:

The same is happening here in Canada.Recent demonstrations in Montreal,toronto and Calgary called for death to the jews.Openly in public.The Left is also causing noise through their unions.At the university of toronto the union refuses to go back to work and seems to be delaying as long as possible for some reason.The Palestinians have lost all credibility now in the West as they are gambling that anti-semetism will take hold.They are dead wrong.Many in canada are not falling for the ignorant attempt by Hamas supporters to twist the facts.

Jan 14, 2009 - 9:26 pm 52. cedarford:

mike:
Hey cedarford. I guess what your saying is that the Jews sort of have it coming to them? When I read of these same scandals, it never occurred to me to discover their ethnicity/religion. That’s the whole point, isn’t it?

Your second point is fairly disingenuous. When something awful happens like planes being flown into buildings, ships attacked by pirates, a riot, a major spy or financial scandal —it never, ever occurred to you to have any interest in the ethnicity or religion of whodunit…..

Yeah, right…

******************

As for your casting matters in black and white and saying that when a group has major frictions throughout history with other ethnicities or cultures they enter…then they either “had it coming to them” or they were pure as driven snow, and only disliked because of some “irrational, groundless, psychology”.

When we look at Diasporas, we see some that we don’t even recognize as diasporas because the newcomer groups fit in so well, almost never make trouble, and refrain from an endless thirst for the power and wealth needed to dominate a culture, or aspects of a culture, that accepted them in.
We see ancient diasporas of Celts, Athabascan Indians, Phoenicians, Greeks, Magyars, Vikings, Arabs, even Mongols – that moved to many different countries, sometimes after brutal invasion – and a century later they are no longer the outsider.
We have relatively modern diasporas of Chinese, Irish, Filipinos, Spanish, Japanese, Lebanese Christians with little or no friction (except for the Chinese when they tried imposing communism on Indonesia, Malaysia and tried getting economic dominance over those country’s natives plus other SE Asian ones.)

The mark of these communities is they either wanted to assimilate or craved harmony and self-policed.

Contrast that with 4 groups that have caused ugly troubles.

1. Germans have had big problems with pushing too hard in asserting Teutonic dominance in nations they moved into. This led to Germans getting the boot regularly back to Germany. The most recent expulsion being E Europe and Russia after WWII.
2. The Muslim dispora has always had problems with peaceful coexistence when they move in to new lands.
3. The Gypsies, like the Jews, have a reputation acquired over many hundreds of years as “trouble”. Now, perhaps the middle ground between “insane bigotry” groundlessly directed at them and they are 100% evil – is that they have plenty of scammers, con artists, unethical people that lust for money and control..but not a majority. But the majority gets despised as well over the years because scandal after scandal, the Gypsy community (now called Roma as the PC term) fail to self-police. And in country after country from N India where they started, they never gained much past wary, occasional toleration because they brought entertainment and coveted crafts when they were not sitting around watching some members of their tribe bilk the rubes and steal from them right and Left.
If they had done things right, in at least some countries, if you believe that “insane bias for no reason” is not common, especially with coultures that accepted many other foreigners – then you would see dozens of countries where Roma were welcome inhabitants.
That is not the case.
4. Jews history is even more interesting, because Jews in their Diaspora did things far more impressive – measured against the Gypsy attractions and detractions – when they excelled they got Nobel prizes and advanced the arts and technology as no group has done. When they did damage, they beggered the level of harm rogue elements of the gypsies did. No pretty thefts, but scams aimed at getting Jews tens of millions up to billions. When they wanted to change a society, they didn’t go and try to set a territory where gypsies could camp and not be screwed with – but set about to subvert the pillars of the society that hosted them with aggressive lawyering, revolutionary activists, and bribes of the rulers.

So if we accept the “middle ground” Jews need less Dick Fulds, less Boeskys, less Trotskys, or ACLU Jews and Kenneth Roths seeking to exploit a society they are a minority in or reshape it against their will.

Even in the USA, the tide of popular opinion is turning against the Jews. Based on:

A. Israel’s aggressive colonization by Settlements finally not being a prohibited discussion item in academia, on campuses, in the media. A sense that our Congress is bribed to support Israel, and Jews are powerful enough to attack and defeat any Congress Rep that does not do as they are told.
B. The American center rejecting Christian Zionist beliefs, not just unquestioning support of Israel’s demands, but theocracy, abortion prohibition, creationism, 6-7 other matters.
C. Too many Jews appear as heads of radical activist groups and meddling lawyers and government regulators that get in other people’s faces and seek to disrupt communities.
D. Spy scandals with Jews forming the rings. From communist days to Jews now caught giving American economic and military secrets to Israel. Knowing that the FBI has declared Israel the 3rd largest espionage network in America next to China and Russia.
E. Almost all the major scandals in the business and financial world in the last 30 years have Jews in the lead, or contributing role. Too much for American citizens not to notice.
F. Jewish dominance of radical politics that puts a Jewish face on activities that really tick off the Right and the Left. The Left sees Jews arrogantly asserting the power of Neocons wnating new deadly wars, corrupt megarich Jewish Wall Street powers, and Supply Siders to wreck matters, while the Right sees the head of Code Pink, Gay Action Front, the Jewish attorney who shows up to shutdown Christmas in their community, Jews driving Open Borders, “outsourcing to China”, & Free Trade, Jews defending Al Qaeda terrorist’s and common thugs “human rights” over the US people’s…

So not only do Jews hurt themselves on meddling, but meddle in a way that by being the most visible & prominent people trying to shove change down on the Left, Right, and dare we say Center – that other Americans have gotten well along on the path to expect “the usual people” to come along and demand they submit to unwelcome change or new restrictions…or diminish their interests in favor of a different group – with them having absolutely no say or vote in the matter.

G. And let us also say that the impression of too many visible Jews who cannot ever get enough wealth and power to be contented because they have an insatiable thirst even as others are diminished in the process – or make too much of a show of ostentation – is growing in America.

This has to be balanced against the “positives” of Jews. And there are many. But the positives tend to shrink in a country suddenly confronted with an apparantly diminished future where all their institutions have appeared to become dysfunctional….

The ploy of claiming “Greatest Victimhood” and “don’t dare question things, anti-Semites!” when you are actively trying to force other Americans to do as you wish, with the greatest per capita wealth, political and legal power – is not likely something that will keep America an accepting place to do as Jews wish to do with no limits…nor regain some of the positive feelings that Jews and Israel once had in other countries.

Jan 14, 2009 - 9:55 pm 53. David H:

Many of you commenting here do not get it, but fred, jerryofva, susan and TalkinKamel certainly do, basicaly it is the left, who I refer to as LeFascists, they are the problem and these Jew hating fascists are in the USA too marching with the Islamists calling for death to Jews and the destruction of Israel, this is not uniquely a European problem, its just that we are further down the line.

As for the cafe culture, its a myth, I live in France and to be honest its about as sophisticated as my armpit…

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:18 pm 54. Pete:

LMAO here, 90% of you are calling those of us who see wrong in both sides of the situation as racist jew haters.

Dont you see how ridiculous you appear given that your own comments are obviously racist towards all muslims and the east in general.

How do you think that anyone can take you seriously, wehen you are commenting like Hamas in reverse.

In the UK marches were allowed to take place in support of both sides, because we are a democratic country.

Ask yourself this would that have been so in the US.

If you want to discuss anti something, then you should be discussing why so many of us over in Europe are no longer pro US.

Even though I visit the US and have friends over there, your policies of the last ten years have been so misguided and selfish, that it is hard to defend you.

I dont think Obama will change that much as you are now in an economic slump, which through greed was of your own making.

Here in the UK we are taking our lumps for supporting you, but hopefully soon we will focus on a more Eurocentric approach and push for oil to be sold in Euro’s, even though ridiculously we still have the pound.

Then all the USA’s problems will be laid bare and hopefully you wont be able to screw up the rest of the world “as its policeman” as you will be busy at home.

Most of you have no idea why you were attacked by Muslim extremists and why you are universally hated in the region.

When you in the US start to question your dealings with other countries and stop judging others because they live differently than you, then we might start getting somewhere.

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:45 pm 55. azores:

But when will European Jews answer with a strong hand in Mossad-like operations? No argument is more effective than a punch on the face.

Jan 15, 2009 - 2:58 am 56. susan:

“Most of you have no idea why you were attacked by Muslim extremists and why you are universally hated in the region.”

when i hear such stupidity i think we are really lost.

When muslims were stopped at poitiers, levanto, hungary, was it bush’s fault?

Maybe pick up a history book?

It’s 1400 years that the muslims are at war with the infidels. And not solely in europe and africa.

I don’t care that they live like neanderthals, let them stone their women as they please, less women means less children, they have been exporting their barbaric ways all over the place.

That still if you bother to stick your head out of your a$$ to notice.

Jan 15, 2009 - 3:49 am 57. Pete:

Susan:-

Infidels or non believers are once again terms used by extremists like yourself, as the muslim faith is in general a peaceful one.

The crusades my dear ended long long ago if you did not notice when your head was out of Bush’s arse long enough.

As for barbarism you have to look no further than how the US treated its own indigenous population to see it and greed at work.

These people in these regions had culture whilst we in europe were still living in mud huts.

Who is more neanderthal, them or us, look at your own actions in recent times.

The US’s trouble is you suffer from rampant greed.

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:08 am 58. Mike:

54. Pete:

Caligula, serfdom, William Rufus, the Hundred Years War, the Free Companies, the entire history of the British occupation of Ireland and Scotland, the 30 Years War, the Teutonic Knights, Louis XIV, the Napoleonic Wars, WWI, WWII, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, etc. Just a minor list. Yes, tell us about your moral high ground.
————————————–
You liberals need to pay lots of taxes cause someone needs to pay for all the free stuff Obama promised me!

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:10 am 59. mountainaires:

#36. ThinkingPerson:

Nine Jewish Human Rights Organizations have condemned the Gaza attack. There are MANY Jews who reject this militarist policy by Israel; there is no solution but negotiation. The more Israeli slaughters Palestinians, the more danger for Israel and Jews. That is a fundamental fact. Respecting human life in Gaza is fundamental to respecting human life in Tel Aviv. Israel creates more enemies around the world every day with this slaughter.

19 days in, the Israeli war on the Gaza Strip passed another major milestone, with over 1,000 Palestinians killed in the attack. The Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights, which has been tracking the toll, said 673 of those killed were civilians, with 225 children and 69 women. 13 Israelis have also been killed, three of them civilians, though at least four of those soldiers were killed by the Israeli military.

Israel ’shells UN building’
Thursday, January 15 12:22 pm

UN Outraged As Its Gaza HQ Is Hit
Explosion hits media offices in Gaza
Israel apologises to Ban for hitting U.N. compound

Witnesses and UN officials said the United Nations Relief and Work Agency building was being used as a shelter for civilians fleeing the bombardment of the Palestinian enclave when it was struck.

UN spokesman Chris Gunness said: “Our compound in Gaza has now received three hits, reportedly of white phosphorus.

“Buildings in the compound are on fire, there are loaded fuel tankers nearby. Three people have been injured.

“It is not clear at this stage if they are UNWRA staff or some of the 700 or so civilians who have taken refuge in our compound.”

The use of white phosphorous, which causes horrific burns on contact with skin, was banned as a weapon of war in civilian areas under the 1980 Geneva protocol.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090115/r_t_itn_wl/twl-israel-shells-un-building-41f21e0_2.html?printer=1

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:30 am 60. ThinkingPerson:

#59 mountainaires….I stand by my opinion. Israel MUST finish off Hamas. The US is full of cowards and turncoats (ie liberals) that run and hide whenever we try and defend ourselves which is what you’re reporting that 9 Jewish Human Rights Organizations are doing now in Israel. The same thing happens daily here against Gitmo, the Iraq war, you name it. Being vocal about wanting weakness and defeat doesn’t make you right. Israel has the right to defend it’s citizens and again I point out to you that Hamas is hiding in hospitals and schools to deliberately drive up the casualties and therefore bring the world to it’s side. Just because that’s working doesn’t make it right. When will the world notice that it’s Hamas that has the fate of the Gaza citizens in it’s hands?

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:59 am 61. maxine:

cyberggeezer …. to your question if im a muslim…. dont understand how you got that impression.. I am a ww.2 war veteren who still bears the scares of war, has been a athiest scence viewing the nazi concentration camps.. It appears to me nothing in history changes, it just wears different faces . Albert einstien was quoted as saying .. We know the weapons that were used to fight in world wars one and two… we can only surmise the weapons in world war three,,,,, but he knew the weapons in the next war would be fought with sticks and stones. We refuse to learn , a species bent on self destruction all in the name of religion, and our individual concept of God. If God exists… and he is a FATHER image..why does he tollerate this madness.. I w

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:02 am 62. ThinkingPerson:

#57 Pete…The US suffers from rampant greed? Not sure what country you’re posting from but I’m guess that WHATEVER country it is, your government has asked and received help from the good ole USA at some point in your history. So, call us greedy if you’d like but be glad we’re here, working our butts off paying taxes (ie being greedy) so that our government can come to the aid of the world when asked. No thank-you’s needed. We know you’re grateful.

Lastly, your point about Muslims generally being a peaceful religion is one that we “greedy” Americans question. My thoughts are that if Muslim’s in general are a peaceful people, where is their outrage at the attrocities committed under the Muslim umbrella? Please explain this if possible.

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:10 am 63. susan:

“Nine Jewish Human Rights Organizations have condemned the Gaza attack. There are MANY Jews who reject this militarist policy by Israel; there is no solution but negotiation. The more Israeli slaughters Palestinians, the more danger for Israel and Jews. ”

jews are victims of the oslo syndrome, after the holocaust they became self-loathers.

Those that prefer safety over freedom, deserve neither.

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:11 am 64. susan:

Pete, the weak minded

“Infidels or non believers are once again terms used by extremists like yourself, as the muslim faith is in general a peaceful one.”

infidels and non believers are the principle tenents of islam, enshrined in their koran and in their eternal goal jihad.

The world is divided in dar al harb (land of unbeliever) and dar al islam (land of islam).

The 2 will be perpetually at war til every piece of land is under dar al islam

“The crusades my dear ended long long ago if you did not notice when your head was out of Bush’s arse long enough.”

i am not american so i cannot have my head inside bush’s ass as you have it inside your own.

“These people in these regions had culture whilst we in europe were still living in mud huts.”

I am sure you lived in a mud huts, and I am sure you are still living in a mud huts, especially if you are british as i suppose, just because you are still living in a squat doesn’t mean others are.

“Who is more neanderthal, them or us, look at your own actions in recent times.”

you are surely neanderthal, who, as far as i remember disappeared because he wasn’t smart, replaced by sapiens sapiens.

However, put your money where your filthy mouth is and move to saudi arabia, if the muslim faith is so peaceful.

My guess is that you prefer to live in greedy wealthy west and live off western welfare. Usual leftist ignorant hypocritical and undeserving.

Why don’t you boycott western medicine who developed largerly due to jew contribution and rely solely on “muslim medicine”?

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:21 am 65. Pete:

Susan:-

You would as usual be wrong, I run my own small company and live in a nice house thanks. I also vote conservative, however I am not blind to the one sided nature of commentators like yourself.

Thinking person:-

You only turn up for wars when it suits your pocket or you have been provoked, so dont lecture us on your help.

Your help has always cost us dearly

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:37 am 66. Still Bill:

It doesn’t surprise me that Europe would be the hotbed for anti-semiticism. After all, who brought us the one and only Adolph Hitler? When they are not too busy pontificating to the United States about all the problems they perceive us causing in the world, they spend the rest of their gutless time appeasing every lunatic terrorist organization that comes down the pike.
Hamas is the re-incarnation of Hitler Nazism, without the brains. They are cold-blooded murderers and cowards who hide their yellow asses in schools and hospitals, and use the civilian population as stage props and human shields.
So it doesn’t surprise me that large numbers of weak-spined, gutless Europeans support Hamas and the Palestinian people who elected these Nazis to represent them.

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:49 am 67. Marie Claude:

susan I am astonished how you can generate “empathy” for the cause your supposing to defend. I am afraid that is the reverse, thanksfully the jewish don’t need you as such good advocate, otherwise there would be more hate from the world wide

for the sake of them, please STFU

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:51 am 68. TalkinKamel:

Pete, my dear, seriously, my dear, if you really think Europeans were nothing but neanderthals who lived in mud huts, you need to study a bit more history, my dear.

You also might try studying the real, “civilized” history of oh-so-civilized Islam: the wars and bloodshed that followed Mohammed’s death; the wars of the four “righteous” Caliphs; Islam’s destruction of much of India, and the attendant massacres; Islam’s founding the slave trade, both in Africa and Europe; its oppression of dhimmi peoples. Really, from what I know about Neanderthals, they’d have considered Moslems barbaric, my dear. Really, my dear, take a look at the actual history!

As for the US suffering rampant greed. . . ah, yes, nothing at all like, say, those spiritual Islamic types in their palaces in Saudi Arabia and Dubai. Or those delicate and sensitive Iranian mullahs, using their oil wealth to fund Jihad. Truly spiritual and selfless, my dear, ah, truly!

The Crusades, my dear, ended long ago, my dear, my dear, but, somehow, the Islamic world keeps blaming them for us, my dear, my dear, oh dear.

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:24 am 69. ThinkingPerson:

#65 Pete…So I guess the words “Humanitarian Aid” are not to be found in your mother tongue? After reading your inane posts it does not surprise me. The next time you see a US serviceperson in your country handing out provisions after a disaster be it natural or man-made. Please, make your point and take nothing from us “greedy” Americans. Whatever country you are from (why not fess up?), they lack an educational system apparently. Sad.

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:46 am 70. susan:

“You would as usual be wrong, I run my own small company and live in a nice house thanks. ”

that doesn’t change the fact that you have no clue about history.

I guess for you it was better to speak german, which is (I have to admit) better than to speak arabic or urdu.

Having a nice house doesn’t replace having a culture.

What does it mean “conservative” in the UK, Ken Livingstone?

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:52 am 71. mountainaires:

Thinking Person:

Israel is not “defending itself.” That is a complete myth. Another myth has now been exposed–that of “no partner for peace.” [see below] The truth is, while Israel has been starving Gazans and imprisoning 1.5 million people in a Ghetto with their “blockade” preventing food, medical supplies, trade and employment, Israeli settlements have expanded on Palestinian land in the West Bank. The truth is, Israel broke the ceasefire; Israel has killed and maimed innocent civilians in Gaza. It is an act of indecency and it will not make Israel safe; it will, in fact, make Israel less safe in the long run. The fact is, many Jews and Israelis are horrified by what has happened, out of a sense of human decency and moral principle.

Mountainaires

Does Israeli Intelligence Lie?

by Ira Chernus

All of the suffering in Gaza – indeed, all of the suffering endured by Palestinians under Israeli occupation for the last eight years – could have been avoided if Israel negotiated a peace agreement with Yasser Arafat when it had the chance, in 2001.

What chance? The official Israeli position is that there was no chance, “no partner for peace.” That’s what Israeli leaders heard from their Military Intelligence (MI) service in 2000 after the failure of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations at Camp David. Arafat scuttled those talks, MI told the leaders, because he was planning to set off a new round of violence, a second intifada.

Now former top officials of MI say the whole story, painting Arafat as a terrorist out to destroy Israel, was an intentional fiction. That’s the most explosive finding in an investigative report just published in Israel’s top newspaper, Ha’aretz, by one of its finest journalists, Akiva Eldar.

http://www.fpif.org/

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/chernus.php?articleid=14070

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:56 am 72. TalkinKamel:

And, speaking of greed, let’s not forget Yassir Arafat, named one of the richest men in the world. His riches didn’t do much to help the Palestians, but, last I heard, his widow lives in a posh Parisian hotel.

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:59 am 73. TalkinKamel:

But, of course, only the USA can be greedy, and only the USA causes problems in the world. Europe, the Islamic Middle-East, Russia. . . why, gosharooties, they’re all just innocent by-standers, manipulated by the Great Satan of the US, and the little Satan, of Israel!

Anybody who says otherwise is a racist! (They probably voted for Bush, too!)

Remember how the US sided with the Nazis, in WWII? Um, no, actually that was the Islamic world, who, sided with them. Hitler was said to be quite impressed by Jerusalem’s Grand Mufti.

It was the European nations who carved up the Middle-East into unworkable, unviable, artifical nations after WWI—but that was probably America’s fault too! (And the Jews). And, of course, it was noble Mother Russia, home of the great people’s revolution, that financed Arafat, and helped spread global terrorism—as well as killing millions of its own citizens. But that was probably America’s fault, too! (And the Jews probably had something to do with it as well).

/Sarc. What else? It is sad to see how badly education has fallen off, in the UK. They don’t even get recent history.

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:05 am 74. susan:

marie claude (google what happened to the hilderberg, a gasbag like yourself) don’t you realize that you are irrelevant to the discussion? the world doesn’t revolve around your stupid country and your pathetic defense of it.

You don’t care about jews or else, you claimed on every post to be here to defend your vile country. I guess you had to defend it better in 1945! Now it’s pointless.

Don’t you realize that whenever you open your useless mouth you are reminded what a bunch of cowards your breed is?

You’re only a inflatable doll to smack around, do you think you are doing something for the fwench cause here?

Look at what YOUR country is doing for the cause

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E3DB1339F930A25752C0A96E958260&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/R/Religion%20and%20Belief

World News Briefs; French Paper Apologizes For Slurs on Dreyfus (a jew)

LOOK at what your country is doing for objective press

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3934516.ece

Le Monde admits blunder over Hiroshima horror photos
France’s most authoritative newspaper has been forced to admit that it was fooled by gruesome photographs, supposedly of the 1945 atomic attack on Hiroshima, which have stirred anti-American sentiment this week.

Those are the “high” french behaviours.
all to stir up anti-american feelings. You are a shame. Go and hide.

Deluded as always. Go out and buy your burka, I guess you will need it soon.

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:19 am 75. Oldguy:

I am confused by what I read in Gates Of Vienna and Brussels Journal, Amoung other Blogs, that say the majority of Europe’s citizens side with Israel in this Gaza mess.What surprises me even more is the majority of Iranians do also.
The majority of citizens in the world (and I think that especially includes we in the U.S.) sit in wonder at what our governments and the elite controlled media does in our names.
I think everyone, with an I.Q. above an ape, understands the concepts of fairness and justice. I’m just sorry we have allowed our societies to degenerate to this.

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:29 am 76. Marie Claude:

TalkinKamel:

unfortunaely also the US were actors within the European nations while elaborating the Versailles treaty

http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/text/versaillestreaty/vercontents.html

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:58 am 77. TalkinKamel:

And, of course, Marie Claude, using their fearsome mind control powers, the US was able to convince the European powers to do some truly stupid things. It was all America’s fault.

(President Wilson was an idiot, true. However, he had lots of company, with the European leaders; and America never had any Middle-Eastern colonies).

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:07 am 78. TalkinKamel:

Not to mention that WWI itself was a mess Europe managed to get into on its own.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:08 am 79. susan:

“unfortunaely also the US were actors within the European nations while elaborating the Versailles treaty”

genius gasbag, that’s because it’s the role of the baby sitter.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:10 am 80. TalkinKamel:

And, in the end, America did refuse to sign the Versailles Treaty: http://www.rpfuller.com/gcse/history/2.html

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:12 am 81. Spindok:

I dont like to just cut and paste but this is very relevent:

**********************************

Journal of Conflict Resolution, Vol. 50, No. 4, 548-561 (2006)
DOI: 10.1177/0022002706289184

Anti-Israel Sentiment Predicts Anti-Semitism in Europe
Edward H. Kaplan
School of Management, Yale University; Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, School of Medicine, Yale University; Department of Chemical Engineering, Faculty of Engineering, Yale University

Charles A. Small

Institute for Social and Policy Studies, Yale University, Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy

In the discourse surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, extreme criticisms of Israel (e.g., Israel is an apartheidstate,theIsraelDefenseForcesdeliberatelytargetPalestiniancivilians),coupled with extreme policy proposals (e.g., boycott of Israeli academics and institutions, divest from companies doing business with Israel), have sparked counterclaims that such criticisms are anti-Semitic (for only Israel is singled out). The research in this article shines a different, statistical light on this question: based on a survey of 500 citizens in each of 10 European countries, the authors ask whether those individuals with extreme anti-Israel views are more likely to be anti-Semitic. Even after controlling for numerous potentially confounding factors, they find that anti-Israel sentiment consistently predicts the probability that an individual is anti-Semitic, with the likelihood of measured anti-Semitism increasing with the extent of anti-Israel sentiment observed.

Key Words: anti-Semitism • anti-Israel sentiment • anti-Zionism • European attitudes • conditional probability • Anti-Defamation League

****************************

Adolf Eichmann also denied that he was an antisemite and no doubt believed it.

Spindok

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:13 am 82. TalkinKamel:

David H., thanks, yes, in the end, I believe it does all come down to the Leftist Facism, so popular among the elites, and academia, at the moment. They have cast the Islamic world as impoverished, third-world, innocent persons of color, and all the rest of the world as oppressors; they see Islam as a tool they can use to bring down the world as they know it. They don’t realize (or, if they do, they can’t admit it), that a world in which Islam rules would be far more tyrannical than the West, and that they’d be the first victims of it (just as the Ayatollah wiped out the left-wing/communist groups that had supported him, once he came to power).

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:18 am 83. ThinkingPerson:

#71 mountainaires….Are you generally inclined to believe the liberal-agenda MSM about everything or just when it concerns the right of Jews to live peacefully? Why people will believe any information that comes out of Hamas, a TERRORIST organization, is beyond explanation. You’ll have to live with your own conscious on that. It would be rude of me to even ask if you believe that the Jews were lying about Auschwitz. I don’t want to know your answer.

http://www.jinsa.org/node/846

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:40 am 84. Marie Claude:

Reaction of Britain, France and the USA

Most people in Britain had wanted revenge and so had gained some satisfaction. Lloyd George was satisfied that Britain had gained most of Germany’s colonies, so that after 1919, Britain could recover its wealth and power.
France, however, was not satisfied that Germany had been weakened enough. Marshal Foch of France said in 1919: ‘This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty-one years’. By this he meant Germany had not been weakened enough and would rise again in twenty-one years. He predicted Germany’s rise correctly. Britain and America promised help to France should Germany threaten her in the future.
Most remarkable of all, America refused to ratify the treaty. Wilson was a Democrat. The republican part in America opposed Wilson’s involvement in Europe, and in the autumn of 1918, the Republicans had a majority in Congress. Congress refused to sign the Treaty of Versailles because:-
Republicans were against Democrats
Republicans wanted ‘isolation’
France still felt insecure, because Britain would not support France without American aid

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:40 am 85. Michael:

Look a little closer Pete. The greedy Americans aren’t solely responsible for the economic mess. A number of European banks were going down before the US and others went down after because of there own policies. Did they just copy US company policies? I don’t know but they weren’t just innocent victims.

Did the US screw up? You bet. The government stuck it’s nose into the free market and screwed it up royaly by requiring loans be made to those too poor to repay them. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Hm, I think we might have picked that up from Europe.

Don’t get too enamored with going it alone. You could get very cold when Russia desides it wants somthing from you. Maybe you should shuck the euro and take up the rubal.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:47 am 86. susan:

“France still felt insecure”

that’s a nice word for saying you were $hit scared.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:52 am 87. TalkinKamel:

Yes, Marie Claude, that’s my point: America did not sign the Versailles Treaty, it had no colonies in the Middle-East, as France and Britain did, and, hence, can’t bear the entire blame for everything that’s gone wrong in the Middle-East during the 20th Century.

My overall point is that I am disagreeing with Pete, and those like him, who blame America (and, by association, Israel) for everything that’s gone wrong in the Middle-East, up to, and including, 9/11, blaming it for “screwing up” the rest of the world. The US isn’t perfect, but, when it comes to world-screwing, it’s had plenty of help. And the Moslem world isn’t a peaceful paradise, by any means.

It’s Pete who’se claiming Europeans lived in mud huts, and are Neanderthals, compared to Islam; you might want to direct some criticism against him, as this is, of course, sheer BS.

Jan 15, 2009 - 9:52 am 88. susan:

funny that gasbag claude is so obsessed with “jew protection” and the jewish cause.

Let’s sum up

1) france welcomed with open arms
Pryce-Jones demonstrates that French foreign policy has repeatedly arrived at nearly equally perverse results in the Middle East. When Saddam Hussein banished Ayatollah Khomeini from Iraq in 1978, France welcomed the turbaned zealot. In France, the ayatollah discovered limitless freedom to agitate: As he himself later said, “We could publicize our views extensively, much more than we expected.” Pryce-Jones quotes a study by Amir Taheri that the ayatollah gave 132 radio, television, and print interviews over the four months of his stay in France. He received almost 100,000 visitors, who donated over 20 million British pounds to his cause. In February 1979, the ayatollah returned to Iran in a chartered Air France jet; an Air France pilot held his elbow as he descended the steps to the tarmac.

Under the watchful eye of the French government, Khomeini met regularly with journalists and actively campaigned for the shah’s overthrow. In fact, when Pahlavi finally fled his country in 1979, Khomeini was provided with a chartered Air France flight to Tehran, where he presided over one of the world’s most repressive regimes until his death in 1989.

2) france is the home of the widow of arafat (a cheap w***e) and oh the tears when arafat was hospitalized in france.

3) france was saddam’s best friend

France has historically been Iraq’s best friend in the West. The special relationship began three decades ago, when General de Gaulle cultivated Arab countries in the wake of the 1967 war in the Middle East. This policy was seen by Paris as a way of boosting trade ties with oil-rich nations and extending French influence in an area which had been dominated by the “Anglo-Saxons”.

In 1974 Jacques Chirac called Saddam Hussein a personal friend
By 1970 France was one of Iraq’s main trading partners.

Pol Pot studied in france.

With this kind of background, and thousands of people crying for arafat, it’s kind of stupid to point out what others do.

Jan 15, 2009 - 10:01 am 89. Pete:

Thinking Person:-

We dont see US people giving out aid in the UK

Susan:-

Ken Livingstone is a communist so no not him

It looks like your understanding of our politics is as limited as your historical knowledge.

In the UK in the 1st 2nd centuries we were still in huts, whilst they had built whole cities in the ME.

What makes me laugh the most, is you cannot see just how bigoted you are.

I see wrong in both sides of this affair, you only blame one side.

As for greed, I agree it is not the sole preserve of the US, but as you have little if any culture to balance your commercialism it is what stands out.

Remember how you slaughtered all the indigenous population of the US just so you could steel their land.

Oh of course you like to forget that and that you only enteree WW2 when you had to after spending the first three years making as much money as you could.

Of course as soon as you suffered in 9/11 you expected every one to immediately come to support you. We in the UK did and how did you pay us back, by not even having the decency to apologise when you shit pilots killed our troops in “blue on blues”, because you were so worried about casulties you would not let them fly low enough.

Next!

Jan 15, 2009 - 10:30 am 90. TalkinKamel:

Yes, Susan, you’re spot on about Khomeini, Pol Pot, and oh, oh, oh, the tears and hand wringing over poor, sick Yassir, and the endless attempts to prolong his miserable life! (Not to mention the oil-for-fools scandal, which France was in, along with Germany and Russia).

(Just remember—America is greedy, but tyrants like Arafat, who steal from their own people, are—um, what are they, exactly? And, yes, Suha-ha Arafat was living it up in Paris, when I last heard).

Jan 15, 2009 - 10:36 am 91. Pete:

Moutainaire:-

I must apologise to you as I did not see your very accurate summation within everyone elses drivel.

I too feel that Israel is not doing itself any favors

Jan 15, 2009 - 10:37 am 92. David P:

Israel is able to easily target ‘Wanted’ Hamas because the pawnistinians historically & notoriously excel at collaboration. Fundamental differences separate Israeli’s from their enemies which surround them, not the least of which being ethnocentric loyalty. Anglo-European cries about disproportional casualties echo a tepid & benign understanding of the conflict. Drawing inapplicable moral comparisons based on western ideological assessments from theories of social inequality blur the propelling elements behind the endless War on Israel.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:01 am 93. ThinkingPerson:

#89 Pete….Have you ever heard of WWII? Americans gave billions to help your country during the war not to mention American lives. You, Pete, have proven yourself to be an uninformed idiot not up to snuff on the history of your own country. Why you’re here trying to be an expert on Israel is beyond me.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/media_fi.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005182&MediaId=225

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:02 am 94. TalkinKamel:

Pete, how did America make money off of WWII?

Myself, personally, I think we would have been wise to enter it earlier—on the other hand, America is a sovreign nation, and not obligated to bail out Europe, whenever it gets into a fight. And, as I pointed out earlier, it was the supposedly ever-so-noble, and civilized, Islamic world that sided with Hitler, whereas we did side with Europe, helped it win, and dispensed foreign aid. What did the Islamic world do, to help Britain, France, or anybody else in WWII?

Please provide a link, or some sort of reference, for the incidence where we allegedly fired on British troops. And, no matter how much at fault America might have been in that—remember 7/7? That was done by Islamic terrorists, not Americans, yet you’re still quite kindly disposed towards Islam, and hate America and Israel.

What do you know about our culture? And what is Britain producing these days, culture-wise, to balance its society of creeping Islamization, political correctness, rioting soccer yoots, the Labour Party, your prince who keeps getting in hot water for making racist comments and the propaganda-spewing BBC? You can’t ride on Shakespeare’s coat tails forever. And what has the Islamic culture, which you admire so much, produced lately, in the way of great art, literature, science?

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:08 am 95. Marie Claude:

TalkinKamel

surprise surprise, wo’d thought you were thoughtful !!!
who armed Saddam, in reality ?

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/040.html

What I mailed to one of your well-documented opinionists humm, also a kristolian adept, I guess !!! LMAO

There were more than 200 enterprises from world wide that benefited of the “oil for food ” blurred trick, also Americans’, cause your people know how ro open a blind letter box in foreign countries, be in France, be in Egypt, be in Jordania… Saddam buddies had PC in the nearest and empathetic countries, where they could launch their orders. Even so, if it was for oil lower prices, our tankers stocked their merchendise in Fos sur Mer, where american oil tankers stopped and filled their tanks. Wouldn’t you think that american oil Cies wouldn’t jump on the opportunity to buy cheap oil ? nahhh!

Got an exemple of how your fellows can conturn the UStates laws : in the earlier eighties I lived in a city in northern Paris surburbs. The Russians had a castel in the nearby, say “cure and rest” for tired nomenklature managers. The Americans also had an anonym office, “Cryo & etc” in front of the hotel that my hubby managed. Your country fellows used to come over for lunches and for festing their business successes. We almost were the only ones to know their existence, except their customers.

Bizarrely the custumers were Russians, Chineses, Cubans… all from “evil” nations designated by your contextual administration, may-be also Iranians (Iran gate anyone ?), difficult to discern that on their faces. Anyway, do you think that these people were there for buying Cryo sperms technics ? I doubt so.

_________________________________

susan yeah trust an italian for telling the truth, LMAO

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp11092005.html

the Plame affair anyone !!! the Frenchs of course LMAO

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:12 am 96. Pete:

Thinking Person:-

The US sold us lendlease dated destroyers for us releasing eastern naval stations and later cash.
So once again you are illinformed.If Kennedy had had his way we would have got no assistance at all from you.

I dont say I am an expert on Israel, but I have visited Gaza and have seen how the Israelis make them live.
How they turn the water off and on as it choses them.

You seem to forget that alot of these settlements getting shelled by Hamas are actually on Palestinian land.

America did help after the with the Marshall plan, but the clauses of that agreement hurt us more than the benefits.

Your knowledge of WW2 history sucks.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:13 am 97. susan:

Pete wins hands down the prize as the most stupid contributor on pjm.

http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/marxism/articles/f114-hoi.htm
A History of British Imperialism

How many innocent people have been slaughered by your broken teeth population?

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:15 am 98. TalkinKamel:

Pete, I assume when you’re talking about the UK, you mean the 1st and 2nd Century B.C.? Well, while Europeans might have been living in huts and villages, the Arabs were living in sandy tents—not palaces. Islam didn’t arise until the 7th Century, the Arabs are still confined to the Saudi Arabian peninsula, and, as I said, they’re living in sandy tents, and raiding their neighbors.

The big honcho, in 1st and 2nd Century B.C. is the Roman Empire. When it conquers Britain, and parts of Gaul, it spreads its very sophisticated culture to the Barbarians. Emperor Constantine will found Constantinople, in the East, creating what will one day become the Orthodox Christian Empire—a society far more advanced than anything in the Arab world, at this point.

When Rome falls, all learning and culture doesn’t end, despite the propaganda you’ve been fed about the “Dark Ages”. Byzantium endures, and, in Europe, churches are built, villages and towns grow up and a new society is created. If you think Medieval culture is all Neanderthal, you don’t know the Middle ages. Your own England has a very rich Medieval culture. You sneer at us Americans for having no culture, yet you simultaneously insult, and downgrade, your own very rich culture! There was more to England, even in the Dark Ages, than just “mud huts”.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:16 am 99. susan:

talking camel don’t even bother

Pete “I used to live in a hut” should be ashamed of his past like there’s no tomorrow

Caroline Elkins’s recent book Imperial Reckoning: The Untold Story of Britain’s Gulag in Kenya supplies a devastating indictment of the brutality and duplicity of British colonial rule in that country. She demonstrates the profound force of racism in shaping the operations of imperial government during the “emergency”. She then confronts the disturbing and complicated intersections and overlaps between the results of exported British democracy and the cruel practice of anti-democratic regimes animated by race-lore, ultranationalism and civilisationist cant.

And they dare to talk about katrina. They had gulags!

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:24 am 100. TalkinKamel:

The Persians and the Egyptians, of course, had very advanced cultures, but they were neither Arabian nor Islamic, and their societies were very different from the one founded by Mohammed and the four Caliphs. They had their own religions and societies, and had also been introduced to Greek culture (Hellenzied) by the armies of Alexander the Great.

They were conquered by Islamic armies, and the original inhabitants either converted, or were forced into dhimmitude.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:25 am 101. TalkinKamel:

Above, I should have said 7th Century A.D. Islam is a Johnny-come-lately; Judaism and Christianity originated in the Middle-East first.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:26 am 102. Pete:

Susan:

Ah susan you reveal yet another of your prejudices “Broken Teeth” LMAO

You mean we dont all run to the dentist because one is not quite straight, what next from you the french dont wash I suppose. LMAO

Susan I have defecated more intellegent things than you.

And yes we were harsh and cruel as a world power, but we were also constructive and brought law and porder to many areas. Remember that was before thw internet and more enlightened times, so whats the US excuse “we need the oil $”?

Greed, Greed, Greed when are you in the US going to develop a culture to make you more appealing.

One that is not all big cars, big houses with no point to them

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:35 am 103. Pete:

Talkincamel:-

I was commenting on the region at that time compared to us in the UK.

In the US you were still in wig wams

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:37 am 104. TalkinKamel:

Pete, the US, as you, yourself, point out, gave you the Marshall Plan. How did the clauses of it hurt you? And I seriously doubt that America became wealthy just through Lend Lease. And, in the end, Kennedy didn’t get his way, and we did come to help—unlike the supposedly noble Moslems, who, as have pointed out, sided with the Nazis who were waging war against England.

Visiting Gaza doesn’t make you an expert on anything. Did you visit Israel, or Sderot, which the Palestinians are firing rockets at? Did you visit Israel during the Intifada, when the Palestinians were sending in homicide bombers, to kill civilians? (Even if the land does belong to the Palestinians, which is debatable, how does this justify their targeting school, old folks homes and civilians?)

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:40 am 105. TalkinKamel:

Marie Claire, I’ve never heard of this “opinionist” you mention, and I’ve honestly no idea of what a “Kristolian Adept” is.

However, if you really mailed him that insane piece of burble you quote from, ver batin, Kristolian or not, he probably thought you were nuts. I’m beginning to think so too.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:43 am 106. TalkinKamel:

Pete, given as I’m Irish, my people were living in huts. In Ireland. Actually, I wasn’t living at all, seeing as I hadn’t been born yet.

And the Arabs were still living in tents. It was the non-Islamic Greeks, Romans, Persians and Egyptians who had cities then.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:45 am 107. TalkinKamel:

And, in fact, American Indians had a number of living arrangements: tipis, long houses, the great wooden houses of the Northwest Coast—in the Southwest, they even had cities.

American Indian culture was diverse and complex. The Pueblo Indians, and Northwest Indians, created beautiful art, an area in which Islamic culture is deficient, since it considers art haram. Stop denigrating other cultures, to make Islam look good.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:48 am 108. TalkinKamel:

(Sigh), I know, Susan, I know, but sometimes I can’t resist—I know it will never convince Pete, who apparently defecated his own brain, but I do want to set the historical record straight, when guys like him, who obviously don’t know any history, spout off stuff like this.

Thanks for the heads-up on the book, I’ll look it up. I had know that British colonialism was often ugly, and that they did have concentration camps (Boer War).

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:53 am 109. ThinkingPerson:

#96 Pete….Again, you flatter yourself. You show your idiocy every time you post. Kennedy was President during WW11 Pete? Hilarious! The UK would be an ant farm right now if it weren’t for the US. I love how you act so pompous about your “knowledge”. Gee Pete, if you had some I’d be impressed too! Now, hunker back down in your wee little UK hovel and keep typing rubbish. I, for one, am starting to find your lack of intelligence quite humorous! Let’s see if I can drum up some more comedy…Do tell the assembled posters here all about how the Britain won WW11 without aid of the US? This outta be good!!

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:56 am 110. David H:

Pete, if your British your obviously a very poor product of the British education system, I was but got over it by personal study. Pete the Byzantium Empire finally fell in 1453 to Muslims, there was only a dark ages in part of the west and that is much overstated.

TalkinKamel, you beat me to it, I am ashamed to see that my fellow countryman is so badly educated, actaully I know British education is really poor, but I would bet that he is a Muslim from the ME posing as a Brit, surely it cannot be that bad now, actually looking at the recent literacy report, it seems to be the case.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:57 am 111. David H:

TalkinKamel, Susan, we all have parts of our history that are ugly, if we start down that road and I think that this is what these agitators want we can start upsetting each other, the fact is we have much to be proud of in terms of both the USA and the UK, I happen to know that history is created by imperfect men and women. When I look at history in terms of the UK and the USA I see two countries where the good far outwieghs the bad and teh core morals at the centre of our countries will always mean that this will be the case, however we cannot say the same for countries with Islam at their core.

Marie Claude who armed Iraq, Russia and France, the UK and USA hardly supplied anything, you should keep quiet about that as you will lose big time if you go down that path…

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:07 pm 112. Marie Claude:

David, unfortunately that’s not what the official documents say, the anglo-saxons also aren’t more white than white

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:18 pm 113. Marie Claude:

TalkinKamel, I’m also considering that your really are talking kamel LMAO

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:20 pm 114. TalkinKamel:

David H.

Congratulations on your self-education! Yes, I agree: “Pete” sounds more and more like a Moslem, pretending to be British. America, and Europe, are worth defending. The weird thing is, I’m the one doing the defending, whereas “Pete”, the alleged Englishman, is the one making all the derogatory references to “mud huts”, “wig-wams” and the like.

(As for Marie-Claire. . . I confess, she lost at the bit about not believing what Italians say. Huh?)

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:25 pm 115. TalkinKamel:

Well, of course I am, Marie!

Why would you doubt that for a second?

:>)

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:26 pm 116. TalkinKamel:

Oh, yes, and for any lurkers in doubt, Kennedy was not president during WWII! Roosevelt was. And Joseph Kennedy was never president, it was his son, John F. Kennedy, who later became president.

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:28 pm 117. Roland:

It’s too bad many an American soldier died in the old world liberating them from Hitler’s 3rd Reich. It is as if Hitler had won the war with all the anti-Semitism being displayed nowadays.

What a waste of our blood…too bad the old world didn’t learn a valuable lesson after the liberation.

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:29 pm 118. Marie Claude:

Roland, none said you didn’t make your duty, for your tranquility I hope you don’t really regret it, cuz otherwise this board wouldn’t exist too, and you wouldn’t be able to appreciate kidding talks

Jan 15, 2009 - 12:39 pm 119. DonJoe:

Islamists are only interested in world domination. Islam is a political system, not a “religion”, steeped in brutality. There are NO moderates in Islam PERIOD. The “so called moderates” create a stealth jihad, using or Constitution and wealth against us, while funding the “fundamentalist.” There are only 3 choices in Islam;

1) Convert
2) Submit (become a slave)(Dhimmi)
3) Die (beheading is the death of choice)
PERIOD!

You need to exit you cyber/ivory tower and check out the “Real” world before making such naive judgments.

Where were you on 9/11/2001?

Have you already forgotten?

I recommend you view and read the following……

World trade center Jumpers;
What the American media wouldn’t show you!
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/never-forget-911-jumpers-from-hell-graphic-images/

Beheadings;
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/beheadings-r-us/

Islam permits you to have sex with your daughters and promotes pedophilia;
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/islam-permits-you-to-have-sex-with-your-daughter/

Update: MUMBAI – Several hostages were SEXUALLY MUTILATED BY MUSLIM SAVAGES
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/12/25/update-mumbai-several-hostages-were-sexually-mutilated-by-muslim-savages/

Palestinian Justice:
http://shoebat.com/palestinian_justice.php

The Myths of Islam:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm

Womens Rights Under Islam:
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/videos/108/the-violent-oppression-of-women-in-islam/

God’s War on Terror & Why We Want to Kill You
by Walid Shoebat, former PLO terrorist
http://shoebat.com/

…….then make up your mind.

Proportional response? Are you sure you would back that?

The dispute about Israel is not a war of land or geography but anti-semitism of the worst kind but it is now more dangerous than Nazi Germany because it has a religious twist.

This video should shock you and the world to recognize the real problem.
http://shoebat.com/media/palestinian_tv.wmv

Jan 15, 2009 - 1:21 pm 120. David H:

Marie Claude, well I have seen official documents and I repeat what I said. I have seen details that show that the lions share was Russia, a poor second, but still pretty large was France, the USA and UK had tiny percentages. Also Iraq was very close to the Soviet block.

Why do some French find it impossible to admit to doing anything wrong, I don’t want to get insulting as I live in France and am married to a French woman, but really admit to your damn errors and stop trying to mask it by blaming others, yes the world of arms equipment is pretty murky and there is plenty of selling going on of other countries equipment, but in reality that does not make up for the basic fact that there was very few items UK and US equipment in the arsenal of Iraq, however if your talking about the assistance given when Iraq was fighting Iran I certainly will accept that. The link you give actually shows how limited the US and UK involvement was.

Jan 15, 2009 - 1:27 pm 121. David H:

Roland, can you ask yourself who is showing the anti-semitism, well the new Europeans (Muslims) and the LeFascist known as the left who are the governments of most European countries, in fact in Europe we have a choice between the hard left and the soft left, best example is Sarkozy who is soft left in my opinion. Many people like me are furious with the open anti-semitism shown by these mobs and find it disgraceful that not a single one has been arrested, how the EU dares to open its stupid mouth to start talking about Islamophobia when it is incapable of arresting Muslim on teh street openly calling to kill Jews is beyond me, they better take action soon, some of us are not going to take this much longer…

Jan 15, 2009 - 1:33 pm 122. DonJoe:

The dispute about Israel is not a war of land or geography but anti-semitism of the worst kind but it is now more dangerous than Nazi Germany because it has a religious twist.

From the Islamic Pulpit:
http://shoebat.com/media/palestinian_tv.wmv

As to proportional response? Are you sure you would back that?
http://shoebat.com/palestinian_justice.php

Jan 15, 2009 - 2:43 pm 123. Marie Claude:

David

“Why do some French find it impossible to admit to doing anything wrong”

because it’s FALSH, , this was convenientely engeenered for punishing the Frenchs that didn’t want blindly follow the “Herd” in 2003

This attack is misleading. French companies did sell weapons to Iraq prior to the 1990 embargo, during the Iran-Iraq War — as did the United States and many other nations.

…

funny some other convenient “truth” tellers had to apologise :

But the AP also noted that while Poland initially reported that the French missiles were produced in 2003, the Polish government quickly recognized that the report was “incorrect.” France stopped exporting Roland missiles in 1986 and stopped producing them completely in 1993, according to the French Foreign Ministry. etc… etc… etc…

http://mediamatters.org/items/200502240010

Jan 15, 2009 - 3:00 pm 124. Marie Claude:

as far as the “food for oil” business is concerned, far from being only a french connection business, this program was largely exploited by UN nations ; funny none can find out who is really guilty :

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2005/sep/07/20050907-113942-1008r/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/may/03/20040503-123158-1229r/?page=2

Jan 15, 2009 - 3:51 pm 125. Thomas:

Marie Claude

We don’t expect you to know every and each player within the American public sphere and this is not your fault.
The link you referenced at in your post above, “media matters” is a controversial, hard left political agenda driven site, financed by Soros to countervail conservative publications.

We know well who they are thus their argument shall not convince anybody on this site.
You can learn about these leftist, Soros financed groups including media matters at:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7150

you can learn whose money is behind this web of leftist cabals.

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:54 pm 126. myth buster:

Voltaire spent his life mocking religion, especially Christianity, but as he went to his death, he gave one final attack on a faith. The faith that he attacked last was atheism. On his deathbed, he was forced to admit that the Christians were right, and that he had foolishly squandered his life hating God. His fellow atheists tried to stop him from recanting his attacks on Christianity, but he told them off. Alas, this story does not have a happy ending. Voltaire is in Hell today, because even though he realized on his deathbed that Jesus Christ is Lord, he was completely unable to pray; his heart was too hard for grace, because he spent his life rejecting God, though he was educated enough to know better. Voltaire’s life serves as a warning. Do not grieve the Spirit of God, lest He abandon you to your own hatred and render you unable to call on the Name of the Lord at the hour of your death.

Jan 15, 2009 - 10:39 pm 127. David H:

Marie Claude, there are many reasons for France taking that stance, one being the French standing in the world, especially in terms of a French leader who saw himself as a paternal father handing out advice to all, his foriegn minister born in Morroco of French parents seemed to think that this gave him great insight into the Arab world. Whether you feel that the European policy of containment as compared to the USA break the cycle is the right way is neither here or there, both have their merits and their defaults during this period of Islamisation. One part of me thinks it was the right thing to do stopping Saddam feeding people into shredding machines, while another thinks that the pure cost of this bet on bringing democracy to a people who are unable to rejects such a backward belief system was madness.

When looking at the actions of France, an element of that was the close business links with Iraq and the amount of debt owed to France, this was an important amount and would hurt and did hurt certain French companies. France always puts its National self interest first, as a Brit I have seen it again and again in terms of application of EU directives, I am sorry if that annoys you, but we know the game that was played there and seeing as I was once pro EU I feel I can get away with that sweeping statement, perhaps a little.

The lions share of debt and military contracts was with Russia, France was the second biggest supplier to Iraq, the USA and UK hardly sold anything to Iraq and while you can argue about the support of Iraq during the Iraq / Iran war that was the right decision by the USA in my opinion to contain the expansion of the Islamic Republic.

I said that weapons selling is a very murky business, take the Roland missiles for example, western nations will often sell their stock at some point, perhaps to valued customers like Saddam, as it was not a contract between a company and Iraq but one between the two governments it may have been done in a clandestine way so as not to cause issues, when money and politics mix anything is possible. Certainly there are questions about Chriacs bank accounts which should not be discounted in all this.

But one thing is for certain the amount of real French hardware in the arsenal of Iraq is the case in point, its there in your face and I rather think that your fighting the indefensible. In terms of the oil for food scam, that was truly a global effort like the UN, French involvement was one among many including Americans and I seem to remember a Brit, as it was the UN I took it as being mainly the normal UN corruption.

Please do not give me links to Media Matters as proof of anything, using them only makes your argument weaker, we just do not believe anything that they say as Thomas quite rightly points out.

Jan 15, 2009 - 11:30 pm 128. Jonesy55:

“It’s easy to see why Europeans think the way they do. Anyone who has vacationed or served in the military knows Europeans believe they are the center of the Universe. Anyway they believe and everything they do is done so because they were born in Europe and nothing more needs to be said. Everything is better in Europe. The air, the food, the wine, the country, and their politics. They will argue will you until the sun goes down about nothing and hears nothing but the own sound of their voice. They all dress alike and they all think the same way. To dress different means your of lower class and to think differently means you do not believe as the collective does about issues and politics. Europeans love to go to Bistro’s at night and discuss issues of the day. Politics are a popular topic. If you disagree, your shouted down or asked to leave by the manager of the Bistro. Whatever country your in, you must think as they do about issues and politics. It’s the national thing to do. If you don’t, the people will label you a communist or a Jew. In Europe, anything can be overblown from a protest to rioting in the streets. Europeans are the most emotional people you will ever meet. They are easily provoked and will forget their jobs and their families in a minute to pick up a red flag to wave around. ”

lol, thanks for that, I haven’t laughed so much in a long time, you clearly have an in-depth knowledge of Europe. Seriously, ‘all Europeans dress alike’? If you express an unpopular opinion in the local bistro, the manager will shout you down and ask you to leave?? We all forget our families and jobs to go waving red flags???

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

Oh, actually scratch that, clearly you could, lol.

Jan 16, 2009 - 2:02 am 129. David H:

Blimey, I actually agree with Jonesy55 on something!!!!

Jan 16, 2009 - 3:47 am 130. Marie Claude:

“It was wrongly said that the rockets were produced in that year,” Iwinski said by telephone from the summit. “The matter is cleared up now. President Chirac has accepted Prime Minister Leszek Miller’s explanation.”

The Polish defense minister, Jerzy Szmajdzinski, “expressed his regrets” for the mistake, a ministry statement said.”

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2003/10/05/poland_admits_error_on_missiles/

in the mediastar links !!! are they biased too ?
OK then another source, CIA :

T”he report said state-owned companies in Russia and Syria defied U.N. sanctions and supplied weapons and platforms to Baghdad. The report said Syria also served as the leading route for illegal arms supplies from Europe and other countries.”

also, funny that the “developping countries” are your customers for purchasing arms, hmmm, tell-me when you’ll decide to go at war with one of them !!! cuz I’ll make a file on the french arms sold there before, so that I can counter the next “truths”

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/arms+trade

http://www.answers.com/topic/arms-industry-1

<http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/Peace/rockwell.html

the arms industry is the state budget supplier for many advanced countries, included, yours, the US, us….

OK David, now that I know your a Brit, that splits on whatever french policy might-be, I’m not going to buy your discourse, though it must be painful for you to live in a country that represents all your abhorre, I hope you’ll have it bitter than ever though, you don’t have to lecture me, the Brits didn’t make anything more that they could feel morally superior to us, I expect your not investigating in your dustbins though, nah, not a Brit’s duty !!! but contempting the continental EU countries, a major play for you and alikes, I don’t care that your are married with a french woman, that doesn’t make you fairer, love must be blind indeed if she doesn’t feel insulted by your pukes

tell me, apart those shoes polishers, who find french arms in Irak apart those that were sold before the embargo ?
please give me the “right” sources then !!!
the truth is, the UN resolution was a big trick, I am sure that the Brits didn’t split on an opportunity to make money with it too.

as I said before the blame on the French was an engeenered “truth”, because the French opposed a Veto to Irak war, and the neocons advisers knowing that, prepeared a “big file” against France arms policies to force Chirac to let them win the UN approbation of invading Irak, since she can manufacture and sell arms, thus the pannels of arms that you quote, but not anymore manufactured since 1993, BIZARRE, NO ?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.sanctions09may09,0,7046079.story

He said China supported the joint declaration issued on Wednesday by France, Germany and Russia, the contents of which basically accorded with China’s position.

Mr Chirac, who is currently leading the anti-war/no second UN resolution campaign, said the Iraq issue had come to a “critical juncture” and its solution would affect the future of the world.

France held the opinion that the UN Security Council should not adopt a resolution authorising the use of force and the international community should continue to make concerted efforts to avert war.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030308/world.htm#5

humm, EUREKA, the 3 countries that sold arms to Saddam, according to the good ol anglo-saxon sources !!! LMAO

well, you didn’t quote de Villepin with his “grandioses discourses”, though, this is the man that harmed France, not Chirac, that, I recall, was a Captain in the army in Algeria war, with war decorations, while he could have stayed in the parisian ministeries… Chirac knows well the Arab world and its subtilities, the geopolitical rules for all the players there, so, don’t pretend that you know better than a French !!! but good at BS and bias you are !!!

Jan 16, 2009 - 5:52 am 131. Marie Claude:

um, is there a problem ? cuz my post can’t be seen !!!

anyway I put it here :

http://bokedou-an-hanv.blogspot.com/

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:02 am 132. Pete:

Thinking person:- (Theres an oxymoron if ever there was one)

I did not say Kennedy was president, his father campaigned for no aid to the UK though.

If we applied yours and many peoples thinking on here, when we had the “Irish problem”. we would have been justified in bombing them and how ludicrous is that.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:03 am 133. Jonesy55:

“Blimey, I actually agree with Jonesy55 on something!!!!”

Sorry about that.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:06 am 134. Marie Claude:

Thomas, thanks, I was aware of that, though it doesn’t mean that the links quoted there are wrong

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:09 am 135. Jonesy55:

“If we applied yours and many peoples thinking on here, when we had the “Irish problem”. we would have been justified in bombing them and how ludicrous is that.”

and if we went after their financiers and supporters too, we might have sent our missiles into the NYPD headquarters too but let’s not go there shall we.

The Israel-Palestine situation is different, the IRA never said that they wanted to destroy the UK or drive the British into the North Sea (only Northern Irish protestants). I can’t help thinking that the attacks on Gaza are not going to solve anything though.

Maybe the European powers and the countries of the Muslim world should try to clear up the mess by paying of the Palestinians a few thousand $$ each to give up their Israel claim and go live well away from Israel in Saudi, Egypt, Jordan or Syria.

It would probably be cheaper and less bloody in the long run than either intermittent low level fighting or bombing their homes in the hope that it will convince them that they are wrong.

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:27 am 136. Pete:

Jonesy55:

The only trouble Jonesy is that (and I am sure this will be ridiculed) just like the Israelis they are very talented. Because of that most countries in the region are nervous about letting them in as they will end up running the place

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:56 am 137. tino:

Maverick: “It’s easy to see why Europeans think the way they do. Anyone who has vacationed or served in the military knows Europeans believe they are the center of the Universe.

“They all dress alike and they all think the same way.

“In Europe, anything can be overblown from a protest to rioting in the streets. Europeans are the most emotional people you will ever meet. They are easily provoked and will forget their jobs and their families in a minute to pick up a red flag to wave around. ”

I wish you’d be on the mussulman’s side with your ignorance. I have lived in or visited some 75 countries, but I do not profess to be an expert in one. In addition, I speak several languages, so I hear what the people say.

Pete: LMAO here, 90% of you are calling those of us who see wrong in both sides of the situation as racist jew haters.

I boggles my mind too that all Europe, half of the Jews, and the rest of the universe is anti-Semitic just because they do not agree 100% with the … wait, who are those who posses the absolute truth?

The self-proclaimed defenders of Israel tend to throw anti-Semitism bombs to all directions wishing that something would stick. A Palestinian thug shoots at Israelis in Denmark, and Denmark becomes the prime example of European’s anti-Semitism. Another foam-at-the-mouth crusader declares that Denmark was the only European country not participating in the Shoah, omitting the fact that Finland, an ally of Nazi-Germany, refused to sent her citizens to camps.

The headline on one blog declares that Sweden is the source of evil now that arson took place in Helsingborg, again omitting the fact that the Swedish police is intensely monitoring and guarding all Jewish institutions. (An off-the-topic question: The article mentioned “Jews living in Sweden,” just to be exact, does this mean Swedes of Jewish background?)

Europe consists of 48 countries of different cultures and languages (and clothes) – hardly a homogeneous entity. It is true that European countries have made a disastrous decision by letting the muslims immigrate to the continent. However, most Europeans (that is citizens) are not against Israel; at least that is what polls show. Most rioters and Israeli haters on the streets of European cities are muslims.

That said, Israel must win this fight. The west must defeat the Jihadists. There is no other alternative. One more thing: US and Europe should stop supporting the Palestinians.

Jan 16, 2009 - 7:10 am 138. maxine:

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence If the jews put down their weapons today…. there would be no more Isreal

Jan 16, 2009 - 7:25 am 139. TalkinKamel:

And, Pete, as I pointed out earlier, Kennedy didn’t prevail. America did come in on the side of England and the allies. Whatever mistakes America made during WWII, she was on your side. The Islamic world, which you admire so, sided with Hitler; with the Nazis who were bombing you, and trying to conquer you.

LOL, Pete, talented though we Irish are, we don’t run America, and collectively we have no interest in running the rest of the world. (Haven’t heard of the Irish invading Borneo, or Antarctica, lately). And the British didn’t starve the Irish during the Potato Famine because their feared their talent, or that they’d end up running the world if not checked. (Once again, “Pete” denigrates his own culture; what are you saying here? That the English, and other nations, are so lacking in native-born talent a few clever Micks could take them over? Your mind works in very strange ways, “Pete”).

As Jonesy points out, the IRA never claimed they wanted to destroy Great Britain, and while they committed disgusting acts of terrorism, they never launched missiles into Picadilly Square, or Birmingham. If they had, I’d say yes, the British would have been quite justified in bombing them, and fighting back. Shocking as this will seem to you, there’s nothing ludaricrous about a nation defending itself.

Jan 16, 2009 - 8:34 am 140. TalkinKamel:

maxine, exactly. That’s the whole conflict, in a nutshell.

Jan 16, 2009 - 8:36 am 141. TalkinKamel:

Here’s an article about the worldwide Pro-Gaza demonstrations. It sounds like this is more about anti-semetism, than land, or the Palestinians. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30271

Jan 16, 2009 - 8:48 am 142. Pete:

Talkikammel:

I have not said that there is anything wrong in Israel defending itself.

What I have said is that it is a totally disproportionate response that will ultimately do themselves more harm than good.

Yes the US did “eventually” join WW2 and yes you like the rest of us fought bravely, but you may well have not entered at all if it had not been for Pearl Harbour.

How on earth have I denegrated my country by saying that Palestinians are a talented people.

You assume that “I so admire the Arab world”, you are wrong, I dont, but I dont like seeing innocent kids and women murdered either, you see Talkinkammel I have standards and those standards require me to speak out when unequal slaughter is occuring, so whats you excuse for backing it?

Jan 16, 2009 - 8:56 am 143. TalkinKamel:

And you guys might not have gotten into WWII if Chamberlain hadn’t been such an idiot, and if you hand’t had Churchill around. Many Americans supported helping England at the time; others, like Joe Kennedy, did not. It doesn’t matter, it’s history, now. I suspect England’s motivations have not always been pure, and uninterested. I’m sure it colonized India, just because it wanted to bring it the blessings of Western Civilization; it press ganged Americans onto its naval ships because it wanted to give them a fun life at sea, and shipped black slaves to the West Indies so they could enjoy the fun, tropical life.

We were your allies. The Islamic world wasn’t. And, when you talk (incorrectly) about Islam having cities and culture while Europeans allegedly lived in mud huts, and about your sympathy for the Palestinians, well, yes, it sounds like you do admire the Arab world, rather inordinately.

Uh-huh, uh-huh, you’ve never said Israel shouldn’t defend itself. You just think that defending themselves in “disproportionate”, and will do themselves more harm than good. Yah. Right.

What’s your excuse for supporting innocent Israelis being killed in homocide bombings, and the attacks on Sderot? Did you say anything about those, when that was going on? What’s your excuse for not condemning the anti-semetism going on at some of these rallies, such as protesters shouting at Jews to get back to the ovens? Even if you support the Palestinians, how can you condone stuff like that?

What’s your excuse for not condemning Hamas? They started the attacks with their rockets—directed at schools and civilian centers; they use women and children as human shields, they hide out in mosques—don’t they deserve any condemnation for dragging civilians into fights? What’s your excuse for not condemning Iran, which funds terrorism, and helps keep the fighting going, rather than working for peace.

The only innocent people you seem to care about are the Palestinians, and the only “disproportionate” response that bothers you is when Israel fights back. In short, what’s your excuse for backing Islamic terrorism?

Oh, and Pete, go back and re-read my post #139. I was responding to your post #136, which I read as you saying that the Irish, like the Israelis, are very clever, and tend to take over. I apologize if I mis-read you, but–whether it’s the Irish or Palestinians you’re talking about, I give my reason for thinking you’re putting down your own culture right there in my post. Go back and re-read it. For someone who beats his chest about his loyalty to England, you really do tend to denigrate it, and Western culture in general, and you seem shockingly unaware of your own history.

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:30 am 144. TalkinKamel:

As for the response doing Israel more harm than good—the peace process they’ve worked at for years hasn’t seemed to help them much. They withdrew from Gaza, and the Palestinians kept up the attacks, calling for Palestine to be free, “From the river to the sea!” They elected Hamas, a gang of terrorists, to lead them. They fired missiles into Israeli towns, at civilian targets.

As I said earlier, if Ireland had been lobbing rockets into Great Britain, I’d've supported them bombing IRA sites, and fighting back. Same here.

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:33 am 145. Pete:

Talkinkammel:

Oh I can see the wrongs in my own country and the rights.

Main wrong we fail to stand up to the US and despite our so called “special relationship” let them screw us.

We have far too many underage lazy single mothers sponging off the state.

We fail to impose our rules on immigrants, oh I could go on all day.

However, we do beleive in some things. I dont support Hamas they are mad as march hares, I dont support their bombing in the same way as I never thought the IRA were a legitimate political force through sein fein.

People shouting back to the ovens deserve to be locked up, but once again two or more wrongs do not make a right and this slaughter by Israel provoked or otherwise is wrong.

Oh I still love my country but am moving to France for my retirement as they value family life there, we have lost the plot here

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:45 am 146. Anonymous:

Pete I dont like seeing innocent kids and women murdered either, you see Talkinkammel I have standards and those standards require me to speak out when unequal slaughter is occuring, so whats you excuse for backing it?

I believe it were the jihadists who chose this road, and they are being punished as never before until they see the light. (The West Bank crowd chose not to participate; thus no fighting there.)

Proportionate war does not exist. You destroy the enemy or force it to surrender, or he / she / kids will kill you. Until the Palestinians prefer peace, there will be no peace.

Pete, these people are terrorists backed by Iran. Their only goal is to destroy Israel.

As to Palestinians (Arabs) and talent. Check this out

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:47 am 147. tino:

Pete I dont like seeing innocent kids and women murdered either, you see Talkinkammel I have standards and those standards require me to speak out when unequal slaughter is occuring, so whats you excuse for backing it?

I believe it were the jihadists who chose this road, and they are being punished as never before until they see the light. (The West Bank crowd chose not to participate; thus no fighting there.)

Proportionate war does not exist. You destroy the enemy or force it to surrender, or he / she / kids will kill you. Until the Palestinians prefer peace, there will be no peace.

Pete, these people are terrorists backed by Iran. Their only goal is to destroy Israel.

As to Palestinians (Arabs) and talent. Check this out

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:48 am 148. Pete:

Tino:

Jihadists and Palestinian militants are totally different beasts.

Israel needs to give something back to end this affair and until they realise it, it will go on and on.

The Palestinian land they stole and settled on will always be a bone of contention.

Violence is not right to acheive their goals and the palestinians do themselves no favors by voting in Hamas, but this slaughter by the Israelis will just fuel the fire I,m afraid.

Jan 16, 2009 - 10:08 am 149. Pete:

I hardly think that the conditions for Palestinians to contribute has been good over the last fifty years, so those figures are hardly surprising.

But I meant palestinians and not all Arabs

Jan 16, 2009 - 10:11 am 150. David H:

Marie Claire, looks like I upset you, pity, but anyway, I think I will beg to differ and leave it at that. Au revoir.

Jan 16, 2009 - 10:30 am 151. tino:

Pete: Jihadists and Palestinian militants are totally different beasts.

At times very difficult to differentiate, I’d say? I doubt you need a lecture on hamas’s history?

Israel needs to give something back to end this affair and until they realise it, it will go on and on. The Palestinian land they stole and settled on will always be a bone of contention.

Pete, the UN offered “palestinians” land in 1948; they chose war.

Israel offered Arafat Gaza, West Bank (excluding some tiny bits and pieces), and East Jerusalem. Arafat walked away.

The borders of countries have always transformed, mostly due to war. In WWII, many countries lost land, but it never became an issue for further wars. If you look up the map of the world and compare the area of Arab (and Islamic) countries to that speck that is called Israel, you cannot but ask a question: Why?

I hardly think that the conditions for Palestinians to contribute has been good over the last fifty years, so those figures are hardly surprising. But I meant palestinians and not all Arabs

All Arabs or just Palestinians, the figures speak for themselves. When the Israelis pulled out, and forcibly removed thousands of settlers, they left behind thousands of green houses untouched. The Pals destroyed them all. Vouloir, c’est pouvoir.

Jan 16, 2009 - 10:31 am 152. TalkinKamel:

so the US is responsible for Britain’s problems? That’s BS, Pete. How are we responsible for your Labour government, your multiculti-society, your immigrant problem or freeloaders sponging off the state you created? Are Americans responsible for politicos like Georgeo Galloway, and “Red” Ken? How are Americans responsible for your hordes of underage, unwed mothers? (Are Americans supposedly parachuting down on England at night, to—ahem!—impregnate them?)

Well, I guess it’s easier blaming the US than actually trying to fix your country. ‘Fraid you’re not gonna find things much better in France. They have an immigrant problem too, and a Socialist problem and they’re not reproducing enough to replace themselves, so I doubt they really have a whole lot of respect for family).

You love your country, but you’re going to move to France?

By the way, how do Palestinian “militants” differ from other Jihadists? Do they have different passwords? A secret hand shake? They aren’t backed by Iran, Syria and other terrorist supporters? What’s the big dif?

And do you really think giving the land back is going to help Israel? Hamas’ motto is, “Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea!” That wouldn’t really leave much room for Israel in there.

Well, have fun in France. While you can.

Jan 16, 2009 - 10:37 am 153. David H:

Pete, I see your moving to France, good decision, its cheaper to live here and the quality of life in the provinces is excellent, though make sure you understand French because the tax system is complex with so many different taxes its hard to work out where you are, if you run a business be aware of the social secuirty its nasty and works 18 months in arrears.

And before Marie Claude is on my case, the tax take is roughly in line with the UK now with Browns increased tax take.

Be careful about the healthcare situation, that is changing, I am OK as I work and pay taxes, but if your coming to retire you need to asses that, its important.

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:14 am 154. David H:

TalkinKamel, he has ten years max, but I am going to move to an area with a higher concentration of the old French, the new French are starting to move into the area where I am now sad to say…

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:15 am 155. tino:

Pete: Violence is not right to acheive their goals and the palestinians do themselves no favors by voting in Hamas, but this slaughter by the Israelis will just fuel the fire I,m afraid.

Pete, sorry I missed this part. I was perusing a muslim site and found this:

”All of us recognize there are violent extremists out there, but hell will freeze over before Muslims will cower before a simple media barrage and accept making Islam the problem.”

“And let’s also remove the historical myopia. Why is it that terrorism has come into vogue among Muslims only recently (in 1400 years of Islamic history)? … Could one perhaps make that great leap that there is an opposite and sometimes equally evil reaction to large-scale oppression against Muslims around the globe?

“I love it when Islamophobes paint a picture where Muslims somehow just become willful agents of violence without any provocation or any wrongdoing committed by the poor Westerners and Israelis! “

These are American muslims talking.

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:31 am 156. TalkinKamel:

The provinces, and old French, will probably be alright, until the new French start coming in, which they inevitably will. Seriously, running away to France isn’t an answer in the long run. Soon, sooner than any of think, we’re going to be facing far more serious problems than retirement, taxes or health care.

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:48 am 157. TalkinKamel:

The very fact that Israel exists, and that large parts of the world are not Islamic, is enough to fuel the jihadis. Google the Philippines, Kashmir or Nigeria. The jihad is world-wide, partly fueled by the Jew-hate which is spreading due to the Left/green alliance.

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:50 am 158. TalkinKamel:

Here’s a persecuted group in Gaza that gets no international sympathy at all: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023936.php

Jan 16, 2009 - 11:57 am 159. David H:

It is also interesting to understand what oppression actually means for Muslims like them, its anything that gets in the way of Islam…

Jan 16, 2009 - 12:38 pm 160. Marie Claude:

Alas, this story does not have a happy ending. Voltaire is in Hell today, because even though he realized on his deathbed that Jesus Christ is Lord, he was completely unable to pray; his heart was too hard for grace, because he spent his life rejecting God, though he was educated enough to know better. Voltaire’s life serves as a warning. Do not grieve the Spirit of God, lest He abandon you to your own hatred and render you unable to call on the Name of the Lord at the hour of your death.

well I would be so sure, the few witnesses of his death were merely practicing catholics, whose first hand writings have been rewritten by the very bigots that he used to fight and wanted then ternish his last image ; another exemple of the kind, is Calvin death description by the catholic church

« Adorons Dieu sans vouloir percer dans l’obscurité de ses mystères »

he was a “Deist”, that means that he thought he didn’t need intermediaries to talk with God

http://www.archive.org/stream/voltairemourante00lachuoft/voltairemourante00lachuoft_djvu.txt

« Au reste, reprit M. de Voltaire, ye ne veu.v pas qu’on
jette mon corps à la voirie. Tout cela me déplait fort.,
cette prêt raille ni assomme ; mais me voilà entre ses
mains., il faut bien que je m’en tire^. »

he didn’t want to be sent to the “voirie”, the common hole where non practicing and indigent people were burried, that’s why he need to retie with the official church, besides this was in Paris and not in Ferney.

As far as his pain at the end, this was not rare, because of the poor medic means of this era, and the supposed “blasphems”, I bet some cleric added them, or if he made them, the opium drugs are the possible causes.

Jan 16, 2009 - 12:53 pm 161. Marie Claude:

David, by any chance are you living in my countryside ?

then you could come over, and we’ll finish the discussions with “shoutings like maverik said, though no problems, as I am the owner, I would shout louder

Jan 16, 2009 - 1:09 pm 162. susan:

the usual jonesy stupidity

“Maybe the European powers and the countries of the Muslim world should try to clear up the mess by paying of the Palestinians a few thousand $$ each to give up their Israel claim ”

“palestine” has received more aid than any other country ON THE PLANET

Jan 16, 2009 - 3:00 pm 163. Bramarbas:

Seems to be a lot of Anti-European hate around here. Nice, really.
Tell me, where did your ancestors once come from? Outer space?
I still hope there’s many Americans less prejudiced than most of you are.

Best Regards,
Bramarbas (one of them Euopean bastards)

Jan 16, 2009 - 3:05 pm 164. Still Bill:

Bramarbas, I don’t hate Europeans. My late, great father was born in Italy and came to the USA after the end of World War I at the ripe young age of 17. The problem with most Europeans (thankfully there are some exceptions) is that they are soft, weak-spined, and “raise the white flag” appeasers. Europe is soon going to find out the same lesson India (Mumbai) found out: you don’t blow kisses at terrorist murderers – you kill them. Yes, that means the death penalty. I know that’s very un-European, but there’s one thing I can categorically tell you as an American whose home is always fully loaded for bear even though the nearest bear resides in the local zoo: a dead terrorist murderer can’t kill any more innocent people.

Jan 16, 2009 - 8:33 pm 165. TalkinKamel:

Here’s another overview of the protests. The Intifada had gone world wide. http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=230

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:08 pm 166. TalkinKamel:

Susan, yes, it’s not about land, it’s about jihad.

Yup, Bramarbas, it’s not about the rise of anti-semetism, or the spreading Intifada; it’s all about Europe! It’s all about you!

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:10 pm 167. TalkinKamel:

And more about the spreading Intifada. This took place in Calgary, Canada, so Bramarbas’s feelings shouldn’t be hurt: http://ezralevant.com/2009/01/hamas-and-hezbollah-supporters.html

Jan 16, 2009 - 9:16 pm 168. David H:

Marie Claude, lol, thats the spirit, while it would be fun to have a direct debate over some excellent French wine, I am also in receipt of a couple of death threats from Islamics that means I will not expose my location.

Jan 17, 2009 - 7:13 am 169. jonesy55:

“Seems to be a lot of Anti-European hate around here. Nice, really. ”

After a few weeks reading this site you get to learn that this Euro-hate is a staple attitude of the American right.

I was always aware that it existed but I have to say that I’m a little surprised at quite how widespread and virulent it is. It’s a shame really.

Jan 17, 2009 - 9:13 am 170. Tevye:

Israel is bad for the Jews.

Jan 17, 2009 - 10:10 am 171. susan:

“After a few weeks reading this site you get to learn that this Euro-hate is a staple attitude of the American right.

I was always aware that it existed but I have to say that I’m a little surprised at quite how widespread and virulent it is. It’s a shame really.”

keep your head in the sand, jonesy chamberlain, in your country there are 40% of muslims who wants sharia law, but since you have no balls, it’s better to white on message board about how “virulent” USA is. When was the last time that an american blew up your tube?

Beside, the hate is for the euro-cowards like yourself, I don’t feel any hate.

Jan 17, 2009 - 10:17 am 172. Truthwillprevail:

Are you lot saying muslims should be wiped out as hitler tried wiping out the jews?

if i was around during hitlers time when the propaganda against jews were spread to promote anti-semetism, reading this claptrap propaganda trying to promote islamaphobia – i would probably have thought de-ja-vu.

Jan 17, 2009 - 11:16 am 173. TalkinKamel:

David H., sorry about the death threats, I’ll remember you in my prayers.

Jan 17, 2009 - 12:04 pm 174. TalkinKamel:

Another round-up about what’s been going on; it’s not about Europe, it’s not about America, it’s not about Israel. It’s about Islam. The jihad is going world wide. http://www.investigativeproject.org/article/972

Jan 17, 2009 - 12:17 pm 175. al:

It’s not anti-semiticism, it’s the “common” people standing together with other “common” people, the Palestinians. It’s moral outrage against the Israelis committing Genocide. It’s compassion. HOw hard is it to understand?

2- Every time the Israelis act in a deplorable manner and the world;s people object, the Israelis cry “Look, they don’t like us, because we’re Jews! Boo-hoo, they’re anti-semitic!”

2– JUST who are you kidding? Do you think we’re stupid?There’s not a drop of Semitic blood in the majority of Israelis, they’re descendants of the Khazarians, who came from somewhere else, certainly, NOT the Middle East.

3-It really is all about landgrabbing the last bit of space from the Indigenous Peoples, unfortunately, the U.S. did the dirty work for the Israelis in Iraq.

Jan 17, 2009 - 1:02 pm 176. Rudi:

This article does not give the whole story. The anti-semitic attacks are coming from muslim immigrants. It’s not nazism that is making a comeback among Europeans. With all due respect to Mr. Kern, but I think he means that the European (leftist) establishment is partly responsible for letting things get out of hand. But muslim immigration is the main cause for the intifadah in European cities. A bit more honesty would be appropiate. After all, Americans know so little about the world.

Jan 17, 2009 - 1:52 pm 177. jonesy55:

“Pete, I see your moving to France, good decision, its cheaper to live here and the quality of life in the provinces is excellent,”

Actually I think he’s missed the boat, at 1.50 Euro to the pound it was significantly cheaper but at 1.10, I find France to be more expensive. Of course it depends where exactly you live and what you spend most of your money on.

Personally I find that the quality of life in the UK is very good, you can’t change the winter climate but apart from that I very much enjoy life here, I guess life is what you make it. I also enjoyed my time living in the ile-de France and I might well go back some day but not because the UK sucks, just because i might fancy a change.

Jan 17, 2009 - 3:14 pm 178. FredW:

Check out Glenn Greenwald’s comments on New York Times’ Tom Friedman: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/14/friedman/index.html

You might just get a feel for what the rest of the world thinks about Israel’s attacks. You can decide whether Greenwald is anti-semitic.

Jan 17, 2009 - 4:56 pm 179. Thomas:

#175 al:
Apparently you are a typical Arab:
Do you believe that the Spehardic (Iberian) Jews and the Middle Eastern Mizrachi Jews from Moracco, Iraq, Iran etc. who comprise half of Israel population are from Khazaria?

You Muslims are at war with yourselves, you are killing the other Muslims, most of you are illiterate and produce nothing of value apart from rage and mayhem wherever you enter. You are unwelcome at any country on earth.

Jan 17, 2009 - 6:07 pm 180. Thomas:

FredW

You are making the same mistake like almost everybody does :conflate the Diaspora Jews with Israel.
Diaspora Jews are part – culturally, politically economically – of the host nation just like the Chinese in Chinatown are Americans with their strong cultural-emotional ties to their ancestral land notwithstanding.

American Jews’ mother tongue is English, not Ivrit, their curriculum is American and most of them came from Russia after the 1919 revolution hence their attachment to Stalinism and leftist causes.

Israel however is the creation of the Holocaust generation and has nothing in common with the N.Y. moneyed elite, the media, the Chomsky, Soros etc. type kapo Jews.

Israel is the expression of a Nation with her own writing, language, history, while Diaspora majority (78%)is adhering to the supranational International Socialism in which Israel has no right to exist.

Why Israel? Because it’s small and easy prey. They don’t dare to question the right to exist of China, Russia not even Belgium which is an artificial creation without its own language and culture.

Glenn Greenwald is a Marxist Jew like Tony Judt who once said:
“Israel is a mistake”. Why did he say that?
Because he was never put into the oven at Dachau along with Chomsky.

I am not Jewish.

Jan 17, 2009 - 6:49 pm 181. TalkinKamel:

. . . And the European Leftist establishment is responsible for the high volumn of Moslem immigration in the first place. Also, European officials, in countries like Britain and France, are responsible for reigning in these guys when they start rioting and threatening others. They seem unable to do this.

Jan 17, 2009 - 8:53 pm 182. TalkinKamel:

Al, neither the Israelis nor the Americans have colonized Iraq. And the Khazar stuff is pure BS.

Fred, neither Greenwald, nor salon.com, constitute, “The world” at least when I last checked.

You also have to remember that “the world” at various times, supported slavery, believed in the Divine Right of Kings, thought witches should be burned at the stake, Adolph Hitler was a great man and Soviet Russia was the Workers’ Paradise. Just because the world in general believes something doesn’t make it true, or right.

Jan 17, 2009 - 9:00 pm 183. Dave:

Susan.
Don’t be so crass and vulgar in your comments. It is people like you who give the Europeans a sense of superiority. Is this your usual mode of communication? Surely, a person of education must have some breeding as reflected in refinement of speech.

Jan 17, 2009 - 9:10 pm 184. David H:

TalkinKamel, thanks.

Dave, susan is frustrated and looking at our elites who can blame her, I think Susuan is not American by teh ay

Jan 18, 2009 - 5:31 am 185. susan:

“Are you lot saying muslims should be wiped out as hitler tried wiping out the jews?”

are you aware that muslims nowadays have a good practice in ethnic cleansing and wiping away any other religion from their lands?

If you allow this from the muslims, why the double standards? I’d have enough in deportations. Jews have been deported from many muslim countries in the past 40 years. Successfully and without a whim from the west.

If the above reasonates fine with you, there is no valid reason why deportation of muslims shouldn’t resonates as well.

Jan 18, 2009 - 7:12 am 186. TalkinKamel:

I think the time is long past for mealy-mouthedness, euphemism and double-speak.

It’s time, long past time, to be blunt, even if that means being crass and vulguar, and offending some sensibilities, European or otherwise.

The jihad is going world wide. We’re all going to be touched by it.

Jan 18, 2009 - 2:57 pm 187. TalkinKamel:

Susan, yes, that’s very true. Moslems did deport Jews, the keep the Christian Copts in a state of religious apartheit and they’re actively trying to drive Christians out of Gaza (see the link in my post #158), and, yet, you rarely hear anybody pointing this out, or getting indignant about it.

If it would be wrong to deport Moslems, then, ergo, it’s also wrong for Moslems to practice ethnic/religious groups. You can’t have it both ways.

Jan 18, 2009 - 3:02 pm 188. USpace:

.
Hamas will never honor a ceasefire, and as soon as they start firing rockets again, Israel must too.

These people equating Israel with the Nazis have to be insane, and they are mostly from the Left. The Left acting like Nazis and calling for a new Hitler, and for the Jews to go to the ovens, wow! Hitler, someone even most of them would say they hate. The Left, many are anti-semitic Nazis, they should be so proud. The truth is coming out, it is getting harder to hide.

The MSM is insidious, they are instrumental in fanning these flames. We must keep trying to de-brainwash as many people as possible. As the brave Geert Wilders put it recently, “To begin with, there is already a Palestinian state, and that is Jordan. This land covers nearly eighty percent of the historic Palestine. Most residents of Jordan are Palestinians, for instance queen Rania.”

Why doesn’t Jordan take the poor Palestinians in the West Bank and Egypt control the nut jobs in Gaza?

They don’t want them, that’s why. They should be made to take them. That may be the only answer.

Hamas is what makes Gaza much worse than it could be. If they would give up the dream of destroying Israel and the Jews and stopped all missiles and suicide bombers, and all terrorist attacks, Israel would welcome doing business with them, and things would be peaceful. But they can’t do this as long as they follow their Koran strictly.

There is no negotiating with a mad man, or with Jihadis who want to die to go get their 72 virgins.
I hope Israel doesn’t quit too early. If Israel is destroyed, terrorism in the rest of the world will just increase, it will never stop, as long as there are Radical Muslims, or rather, Muslim Fundamentalists; who are appeased, defended, and kissed up to.
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
let someone hit you

over and over again
and NEVER hit back harder

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
DO NOT defend your country

from terrorist monkeys
just let them bomb you at will

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
blame your failings on the Jews

for a few more thousand years
they are Earth’s scapegoats

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
give Israel away

to appease her enemies
dishonor ALL Jews

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
never mock Hamas

it’s just their religion
you RIGHT-WING INFIDEL
.
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
.
What Really Happened in the MidEast?
.
Help Stop Terrorism Today!

.

Jan 18, 2009 - 5:14 pm 189. David H:

Personally I support a structured policy of deportation, rather than let it develop into a civil war, as anything like an intelligent policy is unlikely to happen in Europe then I expect civil war…

Jan 19, 2009 - 12:53 am 190. Jonesy55:

“Susan, yes, that’s very true. Moslems did deport Jews”

Actually many Arab states tried to actively discourage or even ban jewish emigration to Israel as they didn’t want to strengthen the country. It took the bombing of Baghdad synagogue (by zionist activists) to persuade many Iraqi jews that they should leave. Jewish people wanting to leave Syria had to do so in secret as the government banned them from emigrating, similar bans were enforced at various times in Morocco and other muslim countries.

Many jews left muslim countries but it was usually voluntary (even if conditions were becoming uncomfortable due to the Arab-Israeli conflicts). Of course the situation varied from country to country, in some cases they were expelled and this is obviously deplorable.

Prominent Israeli emigrants are on record as specifically stating that they are NOT refugees who were forced out but willing emigrants.

“Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: “I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee;” Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: “We are not refugees. we came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations;” and Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: “I don’t regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists.”

Of course there was a long prior history of jews being mistreated in Muslim countries but no more so than in many parts of Europe.

Jan 19, 2009 - 3:31 am 191. TalkinKamel:

Here’s a rather more straightforward, and honest account, of Jews under Moslem rule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule

Jan 19, 2009 - 7:28 am 192. TalkinKamel:

And another one. Question is, why is this sort of stuff shrugged off, while the world obsesses over Gaza? http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/34649/format/html/displaystory.html

Jan 19, 2009 - 7:31 am 193. TalkinKamel:

And, if it is wrong for Moslems to do this, you can’t sluff it off with old, “Well, Europeans were bad too!” non-argument.

USpace, they’re reporting that Hamas has already resumed firing missiles. Didn’t take ‘em long. Peace in our time.

Jan 19, 2009 - 7:33 am 194. TalkinKamel:

This pretty much sums it all up: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090119/NEWS04/901190313&emailAFriend=1

Jan 19, 2009 - 3:44 pm 195. praise allah them people down south:

this is what israel should do.

fend off its neighbors and invest every penny it has in _alternative energy research_. THEY ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY WHO CAN DO IT. they have:

1) the brainpower
2) the motivation
3) the capital/support

this will bankrupt their enemies without killing them. they will no longer have the strength to fight.

Jan 19, 2009 - 8:58 pm 196. TalkinKamel:

And more on how Hamas and the UN work together: http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2009/01/13/the-un-bailout-of-hamas/

Jan 21, 2009 - 8:30 am 197. arabjewish:

If we believe your words about Hamas as terrerist movement killing innocent Israeli as you claimed, then what you can say if Hamas has killed in these 22 days war only 10 Israeli soldiers and only three civilian and on the other side Israeli Defence force has brutely slaughter more than 1300 victims and injured more than 5000 people. Israeli is seiging Hamas and depriving all Gaza people from the basic needs of the civilian people there and even the UN premises has been denolished on purpose. I not a follow of Hamas nor I hate Israeli people , but the fact remains that Israeli people are not serious to allow crteation of an Independent Palastine Republic and the mini Israeli cabinet is a group of war criminals like the Nazi Hitleer and they don’t respect the human life if it’s an Arabian one whether he is muslim , christian or even Jewish, you know why? because they are zonist. History had given us lessons that all leaders who believe on obsolute power to resolve their problems with others they just dominate for sometime and collabse at the end. Please try to be unbaised when you want other to respect you

Jan 23, 2009 - 12:17 pm 198. reggie:

Arabjewish comes out of the woodwork like a termite. He claims to be arab jewish I presume, Claims to be even handed. He is just a practiced hater coming from god knows where. He is an arab and only an arab. If the rockets and suicide bombers stopped, there could be two palestinian states, no three including jordan, west bank and gaza.

Jan 31, 2009 - 8:17 pm 199. susie:

woah.
as a muslim imigrant in canada i get so scared reading all this hate. I am just speechless
You guys go around completely defending jewish people for what has been done to them….and say whatever you want but judging from this isn’t that what’s happening to islam?
“You are unwelcome at any country on earth.” says one ppost

Why is the world such a spiteful place? And don’t say because ‘muslims have been killing for years’
these ‘muslims’ are extremists exploiting the religion of islam people!!
now you can bash go ahead and bash my comment..

Jan 31, 2009 - 10:31 pm 200. Kyle:

Hebrew people of europe. America is always open to you.

Feb 3, 2009 - 6:29 pm 201. gary:

i’m never going back to europe. what a disgusting part of the world its become, the left and the islamic fascists hand in hand, pretty much where it was 60 odd years ago, only there was a few more jews around in them days. now there is a homeland for them one would think they would be safe within its borders but even that gets questioned by the european hypocrites. as shiara law sweeps through euro – islam then we will see the left scratching its head wondering where it went wrong. but i don’r even credit it has the mind to think for itself.

Feb 8, 2009 - 10:03 pm