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Are Republicans Doomed to Minority ‘Dixiecrat’ Status?

A decision to refocus on "core conservative values" could permanently marginalize the party.

November 13, 2008 - by Jennifer Rubin

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It is not only taking place there. Among the country’s fast-growing counties the Democrats also made inroads. Politico reported:

Four years after George W. Bush underscored the Republican dominance of these places by winning 97 of the 100 fastest-growing counties, [Barack] Obama won 15 of them in 2008 and dramatically scaled back the GOP’s margin of victory in many more, according to a Politico analysis of unofficial election results in the Census Bureau’s 100 counties that grew the fastest between April 2000 and July 2007.

Obama won the three largest of these high-growth counties: Riverside County in Southern California, Las Vegas’ Clark County, and the Research Triangle’s Wake County, NC.

The only place where Republicans are flourishing in national elections is the Deep South. There is reason to fear that if Republicans do not alter their present course they will be relegated to a permanent minority in Congress and be stuck below the 200 electoral vote mark in presidential elections.

Given all that, it is hard to see how “returning to core values” enhances the Republicans’ appeal. If that phrase is code for “limited government,” it seems to lack an audience. At present, there is not much clamoring for fiscal austerity, at least not at the expense of other issues. Meanwhile, virulent opposition to immigration reform did the party no good in New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and California — which all went Democratic at the presidential level and two of which flipped U.S. Senate seats from Republican to Democrat.

And emphasis on social conservatism does not appear sufficient to affect votes for federal offices, even in states where voters approve of socially conservative policies (e.g., Florida voted overwhelmingly against a gay marriage proposal but for Barack Obama). The challenge for Republicans is to maintain a distinctive alternative to liberalism but appeal to a broad cross-section of voters, both ideologically and geographically. Part of that is a policy challenge, but much depends on personnel.

Republicans have had successes throughout the country, but at the state level. David Broder pointed to winning Republican governors in Vermont, Utah, Indiana, and North Dakota. He wrote:

This election cost Republicans their last sitting House member from New England, but three of the six states — Vermont, Connecticut, and Rhode Island — are governed by Republicans. When I asked Vermont’s Douglas how he explained it, he said that his fellow governors “put progress ahead of partisanship, as I’ve done here. We have generous social programs, but we also have fiscal responsibility. We’re the only state without a constitutional requirement to balance our budget, but we don’t need it. Our deficit is zero.”

Utah’s Huntsman said that another secret of the Republican governors’ success is: “We listen closely to our constituents and reflect what we hear in both policy formulation and execution. And governors have to work both sides of the aisle, even in a state like Utah, so we don’t get caught up in the hyper-partisanship of Washington.”

Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour believes, on the basis of personal experience, that governors can be the catalyst for party revival. “When I became chairman of the Republican National Committee after Bill Clinton’s election, I quickly found that our governors were the most popular, influential people in the party,” he told me last week. “When the other party has the White House and both houses of Congress, as they did then and will now, the only place people can actually see Republican ideas being implemented is in the states.”

So perhaps Republicans can take their cue not just from Haley Barbour, but also from Rahm Emanuel. If the former provides a guide to policy — pragmatic, relevant, a mix of fiscal sanity with effective middle-class services — the latter gives the clue on candidates. It was Emanuel, who as head of the Democratic Congressional Committee teamed up with Sen. Chuck Schumer to recruit candidates around the country to fit constituents in diverse locales. The result was two successive Congressional cycles in which attractive Democratic candidates, well-matched ideologically to their districts and states, made substantial gains, and thereby lifted the Democrats to comfortable majorities in the House and Senate.

So the Republicans have their work cut out for them, just as the Democrats did following their losses in 2000 and 2004. Devise center-right policies on bread-and-butter issues to woo back swing voters. Look to the governors for policy innovation. But politics does not operate in a vacuum or in the newpaper columns of pundits. Ultimately the GOP must find candidates who may diverge from the party “line” but can win over voters outside conservative strongholds. It is not an impossible task but it will be that much more difficult if Republicans maintain a tone of class resentment, paranoia, and vitriol and adhere to policy positions which are either extraneous or offensive to large segments of the electorate. The choice is up to them: become the Dixiecrats of the 21st century or forge a new Republican majority.

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Jennifer Rubin is PJM's Washington, DC, editor. She also blogs at Commentary’s Contentions.

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216 Comments

1. daddy dave:

Of course! everywhere you look, you’ll see surprising and demoralising Democrat victories. The lesson is not that the country has turned permanently blue, but simply that the Democrats won the last election and got lots of votes. That’s all. Four years ago everyone was talking about the conservative revolution.

The size of their vote was not a sea-change, but merely the Democrat high-water mark. In many of those places, the Obama campaign was running quite misleading advertising, portraying Obama as a moderate, even a conservative on issues such as guns.

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:13 am 2. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Jennifer Rubin
RE: Soooo….

A decision to refocus on ‘core conservative values’ could permanently marginalize the party. — Jennifer Rubin

Which of these ‘core conservatives values’ is obnoxious?

• Honesty
• Small Government
• Family
• Education
• Welfare Reform
• Lower Taxes
• States Rights
• The Bill of Rights

Hmmmm?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Our families don't need values.... -- Al Gore (DNC Convention 1992)]

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:20 am 3. B Dubya:

The core of Republicanism is the conservation of individual liberty.
All of the trappings associated with that, small government, civic virtue, individual accountability, the rejection of identity politics, and others, are the attempt by Republicans to translate the preservation of individual liberty into actions that support that value.
Maybe we will be marginalized. I very much doubt it, because for these ideas to be on the political fringe says that the American electorate is stupid and unworthy of liberty. I think Lincoln got it right,”You can fool all of the people some of the time…”
It is possible that Amarica, in the TV age, has a very short memory. It may also be that the indoctrination apparatus we cal public education has succeeded in keeping the truth from three generations of American children so that they must learn all over again the lessons of Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot and Jimmy Carter. Once learned, these lessons are not forgotten and the left wing of the Democrats will learn that in the mid terms and in 2012.

John Kennedy would be drummed out of the Peoples Democratic Party, just as Joe Lieberman is being driven out and hounded by the new stalinists of KOs and the DNC. I wonder how Washington would have been treated by these people?

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:08 am 4. RE:

We may be in a period where the balance of power shifts back and forth out of disgust for whoever is in power. True, the GOP is in disarray but that does not translate into love of Democrats.

This past election is a classic case of ‘Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it”. I expect the electorate to become very unhappy when the ramifications of further enabling a congress with Reid/Pelosi approval ratings come to fruition.

I suspect we are entering an era where voters will be driven more by revulsion than by attraction and yes, I expect it to be a most unpleasant time. It seems that we re-learn the lessons of history and human nature. It’s a pity that what is coming could have been avoided with just a little bit of wisdom, but it seems that wisdom is out-of-fashion these days. Our subscription to common sense appears to have expired. We must now repay our dues.

One would do well by himself to heed the Boy Scout motto.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:24 am 5. John B:

I no longer believe the census numbers. Blacks and Hispanics are not minorities, but rather they constitute a pretty big, in fact, overwhelming majority. In short, the demographers (I think) have been misleading us for years. There are more non-white people living in the city of Chicago alone than there are white folks living in all of Montana, Wyoming, and both of the Dakotas. Whites in Texas number less than 45% of the total. Most major cities in the northeast a predominately non-white, i.e., Baltimore, Philly, Washington DC are all mostly “black cities”. The list goes on…

It has come to pass that the prediction of Alexis de Tocqueville, who warns of the dangers of loose fiscal policy as follows: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.” is true. America has voted itself into a permanent state of collective poverty, which is the Marxist methodology.

The idea that a white conservative will ever be in charge of his or her own destiny again is, I fear, a pipe dream. I’m glad I’m old and will not live to see the final destruction of America.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:29 am 6. Mr. Blue:

So, the Republicians should be “New Coke” to the Democrats Pepsi? There’s a couple of problems with trying to copy the Democratic formula:

1) By heading left the party will loose many Conservitives to the Libertarians.
2) The Republicians cannot out-pander the Democrats. Ever.
3) Part of the disgust over the past two elections is that the two parties are indistinguishable. Massive pork spending? Huge increase in the size of government? Nationalization of the banking industry? All Republician. And the Republician voters reacted to it.

In all, it reminds me of why many large bugeted movies fail- because too many people want to copy the last big successful blockbuster.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:33 am 7. Juke:

In other words “Do what will get you elected, not what’s right”

No thanks! The Democrats have been throwing magic beans & other trinkets to their base for years. I’ll never be one of those beggars.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:02 am 8. Another View:

Chuckles continues to Amaze;

Which of these ‘core conservatives values’ is obnoxious?

• Honesty- Huh?
• Small Government- really.
• Family- yeah we sacrifice our young. duh.
• Education- no child left behind or home schooling?
• Welfare Reform- now the rich get subsidized-Clinton pushed welfare reform through
• Lower Taxes- for who?
• States Rights-Florida 2000 nuff said
• The Bill of Rights- Take that up with the current commander and chief.

Chuckles Show me a republican whom these values represent. In practice and not theory. There is not one in public office.

What is obnoxious is this America or that America. If you criticize or question you are un-American.The Appalachia area is the heartland. “Drill baby drill” without talking responsible about U.S. refining capacity being at 100%.

The GOP is a fraudulent and misleading. Wake up.

What you don’t understand is The GOP represents the corporation and not you.

But keep standing under the tree and a apple might fall. Us progressives will plant a few trees and when you get hungry swallow your pride and visit.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:16 am 9. david:

Of course, Ms. Rubin, a neoconservative writer, avoids the entire issue of foreign affairs. Governors aren’t going to restore crediblity to the GOP’s disastrous warmongering foreign policy. Her game is misdirection: Her wing’s failures were every bit as responsible for the demise of conservatism as the domestic policies of the other Republican factions. And was she incisive enough to point out the obvious failings of the Republican party before now? No. She was on the sidelines cheerleading. So why should anyone listen to her?

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:18 am 10. goy:

Sorry Jennifer, I recognize that most of what you’ve written here is an assessment of where things stand, and it seems accurate as far as it goes. But what you’re recommending seems to be more of the same thing Avlon prescribes in an analysis which I feel is 100% backward.

There are three factors that created the state of affairs we must now address: nonexistent leadership among conservatives, excellent leadership on the left, and a Fifth Column in the entrenched media that has actively and openly served as the latter’s PR firm for over 8 years, demonizing and ridiculing anything and everything conservatives stand for. That third factor is the most significant and most dangerous, and if we don’t address it directly it won’t matter how far left we shift the Republican Party, since we’ll be doing precisely what the Alinskys want conservatives to do.

And given that PJM is very much leading the charge against the entrenched media, I’m a little surprised to see you suggesting that conservatives water down their ideology so as to make it more accessible and attractive to the “middle”, instead of finding ways to hold the entrenched media (and academia) accountable for the manner in which they have destroyed rational discourse and critical thinking in our society.

Here’s my question: why should conservative leadership follow the herd into the middle instead of leading America AWAY from the darkness the middle ultimately guarantees?

As I noted in the thread on Avlon’s analysis, the notion of the “middle” is based on an argumentum ad temperantiam fallacy. The “middle” – as a compromise between “left” and “right” – is nothing more than the position between a morally incomplete, adolescent view and a morally comprehensive, mature view. Thus, the “middle” erroneously accepts a 2+2=5 compromise derived from the argument for “2+2=6″ on the left and “2+2=4″ on the right.

This notion is supported by solid research, and presents identically in virtually every culture examined – by liberal academics, no less. Of the five fundamental moral foundations, or “intuitive ethics” valued by successful cultures, those individuals who self-identify as “liberal” (i.e., the left) value only two; conservatives value all five comprehensively. And ultimately, these five intuitive ethics translate fairly exactly in practice to the core conservative values Pelto has listed above. A compromise between these two value systems will, by definition, lead ever-leftward, and anyone paying attention to politics in America these past 50 years can see that this is precisely what has happened, overall. And if that’s not enough proof, just go to Europe for more.

Presently, the Democratic Party has superb leadership. The problem, if history is any indication, is that they’re leading the country toward a cliff. It wasn’t always this way. Not that long ago we had Democratic and Republican Parties which operated from very similar values and principles – they simply differed on the best way to pursue those principles (this was before the Democratic Party was hijacked by socialists and the Republican Party got old, leaderless and stupid).

The resulting synergy between those two parties – which shared goals but differed on policy – propelled the quality of human life in America far beyond that of the rest of the world in record time – just as it did America’s international influence and hegemony. And that would be the hundreds-of-billions-in-foreign-aid, sending-our-sons-off-to-liberate-Europe-from-the-Nazis kind of hegemony, not the fantastical imperialistic kind. In those days, Democrats and Republicans were Americans first. That’s no longer the case. Today, Democrats (at least) are ideologues first and Americans second – that is, if they’re not hyphenated Americans second, in which case their allegiance to their country and the values upon which it was built follows at a distant third.

In about 4 years – or 8, depending on how long it takes the lying, entrenched media to either wake up, be sued back into some form of ethical standards, or just die off – most folks are going to realize how close they are to the cliff, just like they did in the aftermath of Carter’s morally adolescent policies.

If by that time the conservative base has not (a) found the leadership it lacks and (b) found an effective way to communicate its comprehensive moral view, as Reagan did, then Dixiecrat status is probably the best we can hope for. There’s plenty of precedent for this in Europe already, so my preference would be NOT to waste time appealing to a false “middle” when it will never lead to an outcome that will preserve the Republic.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:47 am 11. cfbleachers:

Listening to a leftist describe what is wrong with everyone else, is like listening to a child molester on how to babysit.

Let’s completely tune out the imbeciles who come here to taunt and focus on Jennifer’s premise of the article.

For the sake of full disclosure, I despise leftism…which is why I comment here. And I don’t like “labels”…my views on issues are not pulled by one lever, nor do I allow anyone to command my fealty to an ideology. They used to call us GDI’s, now we are lumped in as “moderates” or “libertarians” or “centrists”. None of those labels apply to me, because on an issue by issue basis, I could be anywhere on the spectrum, depending upon how I reasoned my way to my own conclusion.

However, I believe the first order of business is to stop leftism dead in its tracks. I will oppose it with every fiber of my being. Leftism in media, academia, hollywood and politics has reached intolerable levels. I do not advocate extremist worldviews or ideology on either side of the spectrum, but the extreme right is marginalized to a level of insignificance.

If the Republican Party wishes to win national elections, it must join forces with other anti-leftists. It must grab a significant portion of the center, or it won’t win DC dogcatcher on a national level. Put simply, alliances are necessary…otherwise, extermination is inevitable.

MOST of this country still despises leftism. They don’t identify with it, dislike intensely its core values, recoil against its “petit treasons”, and have repeatedly turned away from the institutional harangues from their media, hollywood and cultural propaganda arms…which bomb repeatedly and are failing at an alarming rate.

But learning the “new fight” is not a surrender of values, it is a rearticulation of them…to open up the tent to let in those who would welcome the alliance.

Fair is fair, right is right, wrong is wrong. Most people have a very strong sense of that. They know when an unfairness is being imposed upon them, if they are given fair facts, a level playing field and not distortions…they will come to the right decisions most of the time.

Unless someone can bust the two party system…which leads to wildly fluctuating elections and a “throw the last bums out, bring in the new bums” attitude from the “center”…then it will be up to the Republicans to articulate alliance language and bigger tent values….or they will simply fade away and be even more marginalized than they have become.

It’s sour medicine to swallow for some. But nothing is more important than stopping this drift into leftist totalitarianism. It’s either that…or someone forms a third party and makes both of the other parties irrelevant…by grabbing the vast majority and representing their ideals.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:54 am 12. RickS:

Another View,

“Us progressives…”?? LOL! If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well, it’s a duck. The election is over…you won. You can go back calling yourselves what you are – LIBERALS.

“Progressives”….please.

(BTW, if you “progressives” would get out of the way we could increase our refining capacity).

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:55 am 13. kochevnik:

B Dubya,

Repubs have embraced Caligula’s Rome, not “the conservation of individual liberty.” Jesuits like Viet Dinh and Michael Chertoff’s wife penned the Patriot Act which is an open manifesto to destroy the US Constitution. Repubs give the people “bread and circuses” meanwhile raping the treasury and indebting the nation to the Bank of England.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:59 am 14. Rashputin:

RINO is as RINO does and Rubin does RINO real well.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:02 am 15. Tolbert:

Again, let us not confuse conservatism with the Republican Party.

Can conservatism regain a position of prominence when so few people have a stake in government? When fully 40% of the citzenery doesn’t pay taxes why should they support any party except for the one that promises “bread and circuses”?

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:04 am 16. goy:

A.View – you may not have read much of what’s been going on among conservatives (as opposed to the GOP, proper), but many of your sarcastic crits are the same ones we’ve recognized as the cause of what we witnessed last week. We understand perfectly well what’s wrong with the GOP, and we’ve been calling them on it for some time now. To little avail.

IMHO, the problem is that “we” just keep re-electing the same jerkweeds we criticize. Other than Republican seats lost to Democrats last week, how much has Congress changed from the Democrat-Controlled version that received the lowest approval rating in history for any U.S. institution? Not much. This is part of the problem. But it’s not the biggest part.

We can get into a protracted discussion of where your crits point to the right issues with exactly the wrong sentiment, but the overarching fact is that the GOP no longer represents core conservative values. If it did, the Republican candidate would have won in a landslide – just like the last time a far-left candidate ran against an openly, unprepentantly conservative one. That would be 1984.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:08 am 17. goy:

Ok, I’m confused.

That last post popped right up, but the longer one I posted 20 minutes ago (cross-posted here) seems to have been passed to the ether for moderation.

Is it the links?

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:10 am 18. Tolbert:

Kochevnik,

Curious, we are seperated by distance, but at almost the same instant in time similar thoughts were in play through the ether.

Except, of course, I mean by the party that promises “bread and circuses” to be the Democratic Party who promise to inflict pain upon the “rich” while giving ever expanding government support to the “working class”.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:11 am 19. John:

The GOP is in deep trouble because it is married to a set of propositions that are either deeply flawed and/or do not command majority support in the country. The two are not always the same btw as in the case of immigration reform where their position is deeply flawed but probably commands majority support. Just run down the checklist:

Abortion choice(Three pro life referendums just lost in red states)
Universal healthcare availability
Stem cell research
Supply side economics
Small govt (Fed/state budgets are $4.5trillion! so small govt is a joke)
Pre-emptive wars
Global warming
Tighter regulation of financial and other markets
Immigration reform
Anti internationalism (eg. UN and other world organizations)
Torture
Groosly unequal income distribution
Privatizing social security (we call it reform but no one is fooled)
Disinterest in competent govt
Homosexuality and its concerns
Anti environmentalism

And those were just off the top of my head. Add to this the fact that as part of the polarization strategy the party has used over the past 20 years we have called into existence a huge media industry of talk radio, tv, and publishing to make sure all the hot button issues above listed are on the front lobes of conservatives and it doesn’t exactly create a climate of introspection and rethinking of paradigms. I’m sure some people read David Brook’s article the other day and it was the best summary of the situation I’ve seen. Over the next few years the soul of the GOP is going to be controlled by the far right who will barring an upheaval reduce it to Dixiecrat status. I’m amused at all this talk of Republican governors being the one bright spot because where Republican governors are enjoying success they are essentially governing as Democrats (think Crist FL, Rell CT or Arnie CA). How long the Dixiecrat phase lasts who knows but probably a generation unless the Democrats screw up royally and I wouldn’t count on that based on what I’ve seen of Obama so far. I expect them to move the country dramatically left over the next few years and the prospect of Messrs Issa/Cantor/Hensarling and co fighting in the last ditch to block universal healthcare isn’t going to do the GOP much good. As Brooks say rather resignedly it’s a process that has to be gone through.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:23 am 20. Joe:

Voters want competency, and unfortunately, they were not seeing that from Republicans. This get back to basics is both true and nonsense. It is true to the sense that the basics of lower taxes, smaller government, fiscal sanity and restraint, and national defense works and works well. They are also pragmatic and less focused on social issues. While that does not mean making the GOP pro choice, it does mean the GOP needs to pick and choose its social agenda fights.

It is nonsense that just doing that will magically fix things. Conservatives are in the woodshed for a reason and unfortunately it will take Democrats screwing up even worse to get us back.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:23 am 21. mac:

While I agree with Mr Davis’ sentiments, I don’t think ‘progressive values’ will engender the repubs with electability. Did repubs lose because they believe in individual responsibility or because they demonstrated irresponsibility in the face of challenge?

I think the language of the party must change. Neighbor helping neighbor is community organizing and a deeply conservative value, but the liberals don’t think conservatives care even though conservatives give 400% more in time, talent and treasure to charity than libs. The idea that you know your neighbor better than the central government is conservative. Why is that message not ringing clear?

The conservatives must understand language in the age of Literary Theory. The media uses it and so do the libs.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:26 am 22. John:

cfbleachers says

“For the sake of full disclosure, I despise leftism…which is why I comment here. And I don’t like “labels”…”

He doesn’t like labels and then proceeds to launch into a comment loaded with labels and exaggerations like “leftist totalitiarianism.” This is on a par with a load of Republicans in the recent election calling Obama a socialist, marxist, communist just after they signed of on a partial nationalisation of the banks. No one took any notice of course because it was out of touch with reality which has become one of the besetting sins of Republicanism.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:30 am 23. Zuke:

How is Chris Shays losing his seat a supportive example of your premise? He’s a liberal Republican and he lost. McCain is a moderate and he lost. How do you suppose moving to the left of these guys will help us win? And does abandoning our principles to win an election really count as a win?

#14 Tolbert gets to the real heart of the problem. If the libs are permitted to put more and more people on the dole, those votes will be gone for good.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:30 am 24. Aureliano:

Jesuits like Viet Dinh and Michael Chertoff’s wife penned the Patriot Act which is an open manifesto to destroy the US Constitution.

Hey, I was at that meeting. After the requisite secret handshakes and ritualized mustachio twirling, we broke out the big cigars and brandy, adjusted our diabolical monacles, and set about planning the dastardly destruction of the U.S. Constitution (in an appropriately dark and sinister backroom, of course). It took rather a long time to plot, but after a tasty dinner of fricaseed proletarian babies (non-white, of course) basted in Texas BBQ sauce, we finally agreed on The Plan.

In celebration, Snidely Whiplash then rewarded us all with an Industrialist’s Top Hat #9, made from the skins of endangered baby seals and other Really Cute Critters(tm), followed by really, really, really long laugh at The Idiots Who Would Be Historians Still Using Terms Like ‘Neoconservative’.

(Oh man, I’m STILL laughing at the text-messaging hyper-geniuses who use terms like ‘neoconservative’, thinking it’s intelligent and cutting edge commentary. Is there anything funnier than THAT …?)

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:34 am 25. Gary Gross:

I wrote about this subject here:

http://www.letfreedomringblog.com/?p=3384

Here’s reality:

1) We were running with a very unpopular president weighing us down.
2) Our presidential candidate wasn’t inspiring.
3) We didn’t talk about solutions to people’s biggest problems.
4) The GOP still insists on running fuddy duddy candidates. That has nothing to with ideology.
5) Ms. Rubin seems to not understand Reaganism. Reaganite conservatism isn’t just a specific set of policies that Reagan held. Instead, it’s about applying the underlying principles of Reaganite conservatism that appeal to people.

Before people throw conservatism under the bus, I’d suggest people learn what conservatism is…and isn’t.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:34 am 26. Troy Riser:

Does the GOP need a better, more disciplined, more flexible organization? You bet. Does the GOP need to steer clear of clearly ennunciated core principles, make things vague and loose enough to tailor the message to specific, targeted demographic groups? Only in the sense different interest groups have different priorities and hot-button issues, and the emphasis should shift when addressing and cultivating these groups. Compromise on issues among even the most staunch bedrock conservatives is possible in most instances. We are guided and governed by reason, not ruled by mindless dogma. However, that does not mean core conservative values, which–as another poster here pointed out–should be discarded as inexpedient to the attainment of power. That’s not who we are or what we’re about. We’re the good guys, the ones wearing the white hats, the ones who believe ‘good’ and ‘evil’ are real, not archaic cultural constructs.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:38 am 27. adam d.:

It’s hard to argue that we had a republican candidate at all this go around. In response to an unprecedented bank bailout, the voice McCain heard was that one that screamed “where’s mine!”, not the one that screamed “don’t do it!”.

It seems possible that if he’d been true to his word in that moment to ‘put country first’ and fought to replace the bailout measure with any of a number of intelligent alternatives, he could have succeeded in both passing a better plan and expanding the party.

I’m certain he would have had the support of bloggers on both sides of the political divide in this country, bloggers who arguably have a wider audience now than than newspapers. It was a tremendous lost opportunity.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:40 am 28. Die Fledermaus:

Generally speaking, Ms. Rubin’s commentary is usually worth reading. Everybody misses the mark once in while, and she did this time.

Reagan brought 20+ years of conservatism to the nation in 1980. Carter’s irrational presidency prepared the substrate for that to happen, and for conservatism’s tenure. Obama promises to be Carter-with-a-supercharger, and four years from now the nation will be fortunate if it is only suffering to the degree that it did back in 1980. Ms. Rubin forgets or dismisses the analogous political context, which in 2012 will strongly parallel 1976-1980. She also overlooks the Democrats’ culpability for the mortgage meltdown that began our financial slide (a slide that is far from over, BTW). Democrats’ responsibility for creating and prolonging the conditions that brought us here will be clearly understood by 2012, despite the MSM’s best efforts to conceal it. And there won’t be a household in America that won’t have felt serious adverse effects from the financial morass by that time. In the face of two unpopular wars, unreasoning visceral hatred of Bush and Republicans, a well-deserved Republican defeat in 2006, the worst economic crisis since the Depression, an unfailingly supportive media, and a GOP presidential candidate with less charisma than a household appliance, Democrats won by a margin of victory that should have been twice as large as it was, if not larger. This was due to great uncertainty about Obama, which will not be the case next time. When 2012 rolls around, the ineluctable effects of Obama’s policies will give him less than the proverbial snowball’s chance.

When 2012 arrives, to the extent that Republicans have distinguished themselves from liberal lunacy, they’ll be a more attractive alternative than more of the same. This was Republicans’ primary failing during their time in power. There was nothing to recommend choosing a big-government, big-budget, pork-dispensing, deficit-expanding, essentially spineless Republican over a Democrat who stands for the same things, only who belongs to a party that pursues those things more effectively. The Republicans who survived election day ran on records that were genuinely conservative. For the most part, the may-as-well-be-Democrat-Republicans lost their seats to the more honest ideologues, and good damned riddance. I can respect an honest ideologue more than a lying weasel.

If Republicans abandon conservative principles as their defining planks, they will definitely become a permanent minority party – as they were between 1954 and 1994. Or they’ll disappear altogether as did the Whigs who preceded them. Either way, I won’t be shedding any tears for them. That kind of stupidity deserves to die.

If, OTOH, Republicans embrace conservative principles and demonstrate their resolve in living up to them, their chances of returning to power are considerable. It depends on a few things, however: 1) how much damage will actually have been done – whether Obama’s impact has been a tribulation or a catastrophe; 2) whether Republicans’ conduct after 2008 persuades people that they’re really walking the walk this time, or just talking the talk as they have done so often before; and 3) whether a viable third-party has emerged to challenge the Republicans for the right to represent conservatives. Reagan’s victories were possible due to his support from conservatives of all stripes, not just Republicans. He galvanized members of virtually all voting blocs to support his policies. His policies resonated in all fundamentally conservative Americans – which means most of them – across party, racial, and cultural lines, and those policies were palpably more conservative than anything that has been offered up by Republicans in the last decade. Exactly the same thing will happen again, and for the same reasons. That prospect, in fact, is precisely why Palin scares the crap out of the Left. She could pull it off, and they know it.

The last time I voted FOR a president was 1984. Since then I’ve voted AGAINST someone in each national election, not for someone else, and it’s been harder to do every time. I’ve reached the point, along with millions of others, at which I’m no longer willing to cast a vote against someone only to elevate a may-as-well-be-Democrat to power. I’ll be voting FOR someone from here on. The worst-case scenario occurred on November 4th. An electoral failure in 2012 cannot be worse than what befell us this year. The truth of that will become more evident as time passes. Buck up, conservatives. The nation has survived worse than The One and his brain-dead minions. They’ll leave a scar, but it will eventually come to serve as a reminder of past foolishness. Have faith in America and Americans. They generally do the right thing in the long-run.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:43 am 29. MarkD:

Chuck pretty well enumerated my values, which are basically conservative. The Republicans ran the table with these values in 1994, and since then have consistently drifted and declined. That’s no coincidence.

No where in the list is anything about enforcing my idea of morality on anybody else. No drug war. No smoking ban. No ban on internet gambling. No pro or anti abortion stance. These are all issues for the states. I don’t see where anyone in Alaska or Montana or California has any right to impose their will on me or you. I live in New York. When it gets bad enough, or when I retire, I’ll leave and find someplace more in tune with my values. I have no desire to run your life, nor to let you run mine.

The problem is that the kind of people attracted to government are the kind of people who seek power. We’ll never get them, but term limits would stop a lot of this. Limiting the government to its enumerated powers and leaving everything else to the states would fix much of the rest. Absent revolution, it’s not going to happen.

The Republicans have morphed to Dem lite, and the people who want that sort of thing will always vote for the real thing. The conservatives have been betrayed, even though these values are those of the majority. Bush is no conservative at all. Neither is McCain. Do you wonder why Palin was popular?

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:44 am 30. Andrew P:

There is either going to be a massive deflationary depression or a massive hyperinflation as the G20 agrees to print lots of money to inflate away all the debt. Things will not be pretty. The Republican Party will take the full blame. It will be a very long time before the GOP comes back – if ever.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:45 am 31. Michael:

I challenge anyone to re-read the Declaration of Independence and replace the references to King George with reference to the Federal Government/Congress and then tell me that traditional conservative principles no longer apply. If anyone wants a blueprint for a Republican renaissance, they have to look no further than that visionary document.

The Left likes to talk about a “unitary executive”, we have created the reincarnation of King George in our federal bureaucracy.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:45 am 32. nick danger:

if standing for the principles of individual liberty and responsibility, smaller, less intrusive government, support of the constitutional republic and the bill of rights, free markets, free trade, a strong military in defense and promotion of liberty, lower taxes for all and being an unrelenting adversary of group identity politics won’t win elections for the republicans then nothing can.

if republicans have to address citizens of the USA as if they were children needing direction and motivation in every aspect of their lives then perhaps it is best the democrats are in charge.

frankly i want no part of any political party that promotes the infantilization of it’s citizenry.

that is why i did NOT vote for john mccain. and i, of course, did not vote for the more obviously socialist barack obama. however, they are both statists. we have no room in a dynamic and free society for such nanny statism.

but here we are

no, ms. rubin, your ideas will lead to further marginalization.

we don’t mommies, we need leaders to articulate the fundamentals of conservatism to neophytes like you.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:54 am 33. MJBrutus:

Where does one begin? Pragmatism is well and good when one’s goal is to obtain power. But obtain power to what end? Are we after bragging rights or do we want to achieve something?

For my part, I want government that is limited to the social contract upon which this nation was founded. Namely our Constitution. I understand that we must compromise, but when compromises define us we become nothing.

Our nation is in a mood for socialism. I think that stinks, but so what? We are embarking on a path of irreversible destruction of the ideals upon which our nation was founded. You say that our salvation lies in capitulation. No thank you. I will work as the loyal opposition until such time as we are forced as a nation to come to our senses. Maybe we will we will and maybe we won’t. But I will not give my consent to either party to continue to eradicate the principles that are responsible for our freedom and opportunity.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:54 am 34. Tom:

Y’know what, lady? You’re right. You’ve convinced me. Why are we wasting time with such trivialities as border security, rule of law, reason, character and accountability? Decency is for losers. Thanks large for setting us straight.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:00 am 35. cfbleachers:

cfbleachers says

“For the sake of full disclosure, I despise leftism…which is why I comment here. And I don’t like “labels”…”

Perhaps this commenter has a reading problem or perhaps a comprehension problem. I don’t like labels assigned to me because I owe no fealty to an ideology. To those who DO kneel at the altar of ideology, especially one of extremism…intolerance to other viewpoints, shouting down principled dissent, strangling debate…I stand firmly against them.

Does this help? I don’t march in lockstep with anyone leading me by a nose ring into some extremist ideology. Leftists do. Traditional liberals don’t. Center-right “moderates” don’t.

And, if Senator Obama was mentored by Frank Marshall Davis (a communist), sought out his most radical professors (most, small “c” communists), joined the New Party (self-identified as socialists), worked with Mike Klonsky and William Ayers (a Maoist and a small “c” Communist/anarchist), became a devoted attendee at a James Cone theo-political Sunday rally (Marxist)….then anyone who didn’t question how deep his attachment was to leftist ideology is and was not engaged in critical thinking. Only a fool would suggest that Senator Obama didn’t at a minimum, flirt with leftism. How deep his attachment went…was left unscrutinized by a fawning and complicit press.

Your myopic viewpoint that anyone who even LOOKED at the clear outline of a lifetime steeped in radical extremism…and wondered how much of it took hold…reduces your opinions to drivle and blather apologia status. If you wish to wear blinders, that’s your prerogative.

Anyone with two firing synapses would at least look, and the question is apparent, even if the answer is not. Denying the question exists, make one an Obama “truther”.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:05 am 36. cfbleachers:

drivle= drivel

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:07 am 37. anthony999:

I think a big part of the problem with conservatives is that they actually think they are better than liberals. Look at this list of values ostensibly that are only”conservative”

• Honesty
• Small Government
• Family
• Education
• Welfare Reform
• Lower Taxes
• States Rights
• The Bill of Rights

Do conservatives honestly believe they are the only ones who hold these principles dear? Do conservatives honestly believe they actually practice all of these principles cositently?

Amending the constitution to ban gay marriage, or to allow the criminalization of flag burning is not how I define small government. Violation of the 9th amendment and 10th amendments as the Bush administration ignored the will of the people of California on the issue of medical marijuana is not indicative of respect for the Bill of Rights. How about looking for loopholes in the 4th amendment requirement for search warrants. These are all actions of the Bush administration that conservatives strongly supported.

Personally, I am quite proud of the term liberal or leftist. To the poster who says he will oppose beliefs like mine with every fibre of his being, I would say simply, bring it on. Every one of my beliefs is firmly rooted in the United States Constitution. I do not advocate amending it to increase the power of government as the right has tried to do in the examples cited above.

So, my unsolicited advice to conservatives is to stop thinking that you are the only people who care about familes, communities, freedom, and our constitution. You are not. Philosphies based on utterly false assumptions will typically fail.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:08 am 38. wade:

Republicans face problems they can do little about other than be Democrat-lite. Decades of media, public education, academia, and entertainment propagandizing has taken its toll I fear. Republicans wrongly think issues matter. Well, maybe to some degree but ignorance is so rampant I feel major elections turn more on events and personality than anything. History is full of tyrants taking hold in times of crises when voters just want “change” and “hope”. Add to that such media bias as we saw this time and it will be impossible for Republican gains in the near future unless voters see a meltdown in the economy and the “I want the other guy!” mentality once again raises its head. Democrats appeal to our selfish “dark” side (no accountability, no personal responsibility, “give me”, “tell me it’s OK to kill my unborn baby”, etc.). Republicans must rely upon those with standards and values who will vote on principle rather than selfish want. That’s why we see Republicans still hanging onto the South. That too will likely fade.

Modern liberalism may have won. It is bad enough when Democrats can manufacture a false crises and can depend upon the media to carry the message however false. Now, with a real crises and Democrats in charge of government it may be the “perfect storm”. God help us!

Sorry, that’s just how I see it. Not a pretty picture.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:08 am 39. WICON42:

Jennifer , it sounds like Obama’s Jedi mind tricks are starting to make inroads on you , fight them girl and fight becoming a useful slave of Obomunizm.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:10 am 40. Carl D. Kaminer:

cfbleachers…

They are not “leftists”, they are “progressives”. Aparently you were either taught in a private school or you were home schooled, and therefore missed the indoctrination.

I applaud your independent streak and agree with you that alliances will have to be made. Alliances were made on the other side that helped this year’s bunch of “progressives” get into office. While I agree that the conservative “base” (whatever that is these days) was not energized this year, but I’m afraid the core conservatives by themselves will no longer carry a party to victory in the U.S.

We must also increase the traditional conservative base. It’s my opinion that the Republicans should do more to reach out to the Hispanic community. It’s the fastest growing demographic the United States, with conservative values and the strong work ethic that is the hallmark of conservative ideology. Yet we continue to drive a wedge between ourselves and the hispanic community by focusing on unimportant issues like English being the official U,S. language.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:10 am 41. toritto:

If the hard right wants the GOP to remain the party of the angry white man, well so be it. Liberals want you to do that as well! This election the GOP became the party of the old, undereducated, rural angry white voter. This group is becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the electorate. It became the party of the Southern core of the Confederacy and states like Wyoming where nobody lives. It lost in every major metropolitan area. It lost affluent diverse suburbs in Philadelphia, Charlotte, Raleigh, Fairfax and Northern Virginia, Alberquerque and Las Vegas, Miami and Tampa, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Cleveland and Indianapolis, New York and Boston . It even lost Dallas and Houston. It lost hispanic voters by 2 to l. It lost virtually 100% of the black vote. It lost the “youth” vote 2 to 1. The Democrats won every growing demographic.

There is no longer a GOP Representative in the House from all of New England, including those bastions of Republicanism, New Hampshire and Maine. There are only 3 GOP House members from New York and only one is urban. The increasing Hispanic vote will put Texas and Arizona in play in coming elections. Any party that starts with California, New York and Texas in its column is in a pretty strong position.

Make Pallin the leader of your party! Please!!

The GOP needs to decide what it is FOR……calling the opposition names ain’t gonna cut it as “policy”. Continuing to emphasize the culture wars will lead to a smaller, waiting for the rapture, lily-white regional Southern party. The GOP will be better off following its moderate Governors rather than its right wing House representatives.

Look at the faces of the new America……..the demographics are against you.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:10 am 42. Mike:

While Ms. Rubin and others in the conservative intelligentsia are insisting that Republicans jettison their core conservative values, along with all things Reagan. The Democrats, and liberals in general, are heralding the return of Camelot and the Great Society. Both – if I am recalling History correctly – pre-dated Reagan and the modern-day conservative movement.
So you have Democrats mouthing “change”,while openly embracing the same old liberal values – there “core” values. While conservative “deep thinkers” are counseling Republicans to abandon their core values and adopt a philosopny akin to Liberal light.
Brilliant strategy! Will the last Republican to leave please turn of the lights.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:29 am 43. nick danger:

dear anthony999

if you’re a leftist and think more federal government intervention is the solution then you do NOT believe in that list of values? you are just another indigent looking for a mommy instead of taking care of you and yours. and you disguise your indigence as “concern” for the less fortunate. your hypocrisy is showing!

why not emigrate to some western european social democracy if that is what you desire?

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:29 am 44. nick danger:

toritto, so what you are saying is; “welcome to the big federal hammock, the rich guys are paying”, right?

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:31 am 45. scott:

Change is inevitable. The Republican Party needs to stick to it’s core values,listen to the people that vote, and tweak its positions. Another factor that is being missed is the brilliant “Get Out and Vote” that the Obama Campaign wagered. It definitely made the difference to more loses in Congress, i.e. more votes for the Democrats due to the Obama phenomenom. Drilling down into this factor is the fact that many that voted Democrat were uneducated and and totally misinformed. It appears that the Republican Party has a monumental task at hand to endear people to its party. I submit that the number one goal should be to educate, inform, and gain the trust of those who will be voting in the years to come.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:32 am 46. WICON42:

“Look at the faces of the new America……..the demographics are against you. ”

I have , I see mostly useful slaves these days.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:34 am 47. kochevnik:

Tolbert,

Repubs support corporate welfare, while Democrats advocate personal welfare. Repub politicians like to pocket taxpayer money by starting wars and pocketing the proceeds of selling arms to both sides, while Democrats take public funds laundered through the Bank of England for their foundations and endowments [to further balkanize society].

They both support corpofascist Rome: expanding government married with corporations. The “working class” are mere consumers and have no more representation than air or sunlight.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:39 am 48. PTN:

Since Ms.Rubin is fond of the tactics of Mr. Emanuel let us not forget the democratic candidates he selected that won in 2006 and helped the democrats regain control of congress were mostly very conservative democrats including my congressman Brad Ellsworth. They are pro-gun,pro-life,staunch against illegal immigration etc etc… Checkout recent Rasmussen polls on immigration and border security the public is still very much for securing our borders and stopping the flow of illegals.

Mark Kirkorian found that even if McCain had won a sizeable share of the Hispanic vote in key states he still would have lost the election.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:43 am 49. Joan Ryan:

I disagree completely. As others here have pointed out,it is noteworthy that where the Democrats made gains outside of their traditional liberal haunts in the northeast,that they ran conservatives who, in many cases, would fit comfortably within the GOP.Having now made that deal with their devil, the Democrats will find that there is going to be a lot of internal pull to the right during the next few years and that the left wing interest groups who have,in the past, made it the minority Party, will have no alternative but to cede some of their power.There is no reason at all for the Republicans to become the Party of Lincoln Chafee

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:53 am 50. toritto:

Nick Danger: Do you want to win? Or would you rather stick with the waiting for the rapture crowd and lose?

Go ahead….lose with principles!

How do you explain the loss of 2/3rds of the Hispanic vote? How about the Republican right refusing to address McCain’s immigration bill?

How do you explain the loss of 2/3rds of the “youth” vote? Yeah I know. They are all indoctrinated in college.

Why were there no black faces at the GOP convention? Or at McCain / Palin rallys?

The demographics are against a lilly white, rural, theogratic party. How about the bigots outside?

Do you want the GOP to be relevant?

The party has a lot of rebuilding to do.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:54 am 51. soupy:

“why not emigrate to some western european social democracy if that is what you desire?”

Ah, there it is, the usual Republican response when some communist godless lefty dares to dispute the vaunted “conservative core principles”.

So keep saying that, fellas. Say it to your more moderate columnists and pundits and the moderate conservative American electorate.

And know what? They’ll emigrate all right. Straight into the welcoming arms of the Democratic party. Thanks for the gift. Wink, wink.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:56 am 52. Van Hook Stratton:

I think everyone here needs to relax. There’s been one two-term Dem president since FDR and, until 2006, the GOP had been on a 12 year winning streak. Nobody wins ‘em all. After years of GOP domination the natural equilibrium of the country swings back to the center. Hell, even Canada voted the Conservatives into power at the height of Bush’s unpopular reign to their South. No major re-tooling required, just some youth, vitality and people being reminded why they voted GOP in 1994 should suffice. I suggest GOP operatives and activists take a break and live their lives. That’s the great thing about Republicans, we’re not wonks or people married even to limited government- we just quietly run the country.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:59 am 53. MikeJW:

36. anthony999:
I think a big part of the problem with conservatives is that they actually think they are better than liberals. Look at this list of values ostensibly that are only”conservative”

YES! It seems that ALL of these are exclusive beliefs of conservatives. You are lying to yourself, just as everyone else in the RINO/Democrat community, if you can truthfully say otherwise.

• Honesty – Democrats have to lie, cheat and steal in order to get elected and they do the same afterwards.
• Small Government – Conservatives believe in this whole-heartedly. The Constitution demands this.
• Family – Dems belief in the welfare state/homosexual rights has tried to destroy this institution.
• Education – Gov’t run schools, for the most part, are Dem./Socialist indoctrination centers.
• Welfare Reform – Mandatory for self-determination. Individual liberty cannot be attained if you are relying on govt. handouts.
• Lower Taxes – Everyone should pay something. If they did, the tax rates for everyone currently shouldering the burden would go down.
• States Rights – What is not specifically designated as a Federal responsibility in the Constitution is left to the States to decide. What is so hard about that?
• The Bill of Rights and the Constitution – Dems/Socialists spend most of their time trying to re-interpret what English means. The rest of the time they use it for toilet paper or fire starter at their anti-America rallies.

Stop lying to yourself. Your BDS has taken you to an alternate universe where up is down and right is wrong.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:01 am 54. nick danger:

yes, toritto, if we’re gonna be sell outs to south american banana republic style politics so we can attract latinos, and free college tuition so we can cater to young people, blah blah blah.

you are stuck in the identity politics of the left. i prefer speaking to inviduals who have principles.

and if we have to sell out our principles to be relevant to a bunch of people who want federal hand outs (ever hear the 95% of taxpayers are gonna get a tax cut myth before, toritto?) the it’s best conservatives not participate.

when the federal government finally has poisoned the free market as they had by the late ’70’s, people will beg conservatives to take charge.

you forget, toritto, politically the 1930’s did not end in the USA until 1980.

group identity politics are the tactics of a party, like the democrats, who are bereft of principle and ideas. we have a few generations of people who have been educated in the leftist US public school system and they believe this “identity politics, we’re all in this together, competition is bad” blather the left pushes.
republican should resist this lowest common denominator tactic.

frankly, if you want to practice demographic politics go on to some 3rd world backwater. it seems it would fit you better.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:04 am 55. Emerson:

Just what we need, “values” advice from an atheist Jew.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:05 am 56. nick danger:

soupy,

i did not demand those who don’t like a constitutional republic true to it’s founding documents to move to a western european style social democracy, i suggested if they are looking for that cradle to grave infantilism they should seek out a country to take care of them.

i prefer to take care of myself and that is why i prefer our style of government (or did) but leftists in this country want us to become a nation of panhandlers to the government.

well, i’d rather not. but you can let the federal government order you around if you want soupy. too bad you don’t have a little more of that free will thing.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:08 am 57. Jaibones:

It’s sort of funny/strange – these commentators who dismiss the notion that conservative principles can win nationwide elections don’t ever try to reconcile the 2004 re-election of Bush with their naysaying.

Rubin cites the Iraq war in 2006 and “corruption scandals”. The Democrat party is one seemingly endless scandal of corruption, dishonesty, prositution, homosexual decadence and prostitution, and graft, but she thinks that people run away from the GOP of Duke Cunningham or Mark Foley and to the Democrats and … Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, Bill Clinton, William Jefferson, and Tim Mahoney?

This makes little sense.

Many pundits have identified the sole reason for Obama’s election as the economic horror show in September. Same question: if the Democrats made this mess (they did), why would voters go to a socialist with zero economic knowledge or experience like Obama to fix it.

I think maybe you pundits don’t know so much.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:08 am 58. goy:

toritto, I don’t know. If there’s a truly theocratic element that pervades our national consciousness it’s the Climate Crisistians, not the Judeo-Christians. The latter are not a factor, although the left insists on painting conservatism with that brush to enhance the tint of their baseless ridicule, which the entrenched media joyfully broadcasts at every opportunity.

2/3 Hispanics might be swayed by a more realistic, streamlined path to citizenship – as opposed to the chaos we have in place now.

The virtually irrelevant “youth vote” – which changed imperceptibly from elections past – is ALWAYS going to vote for the candidate or policy that will best perpetuate their coddled lifestyle. Until, that is, academia begins instilling in them what they can do for their country, not what their country owes them. Yes, in fact, they are pretty well indoctrinated into a collectivist, entitlement mindset by constructivist, outcome-based education policies – the same ones the Soviets and Chinese abandoned (see also: Dewey, John) when they realized what it was doing to their graduates.

No black faces at the GOP convention!!?? Did you WATCH any of it??

The GOP will be relevant when WE push it back in line with conservative core values. Not before. The slippery slope has no conveniently placed handholds at the “middle”.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:08 am 59. Eppur Si:

The rules haven’t changed. The Republican party does not need a new direction. We only need to implement our game plan – a game plan that has worked before and will work again. Here it is:

1. Accept that the Republican party is a coalition of social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, foreign policy hawks, and libertarians. These groups do not agree with each other on all issues, but they should be able to agree that fellow members of this coalition are preferable to Democrats despite the differences between them. A coalition party cannot win if it engages in internecine warfare or imposes litmus tests of ideological purity.

2. We cannot win without independent voters. Independents vote for the party that is viewed as decent, honest, and a good steward of the economy. Independent voters will vote Republican if our brand stands for small government comprised of programs that work well, lower taxes that are well-spent, little tolerance for leaders who put self-interest ahead of national interest, and a positive attitude about the country and its future. The fact that we have let Democrats steal the mantle of fiscal responsibility and portray our party as the “culture of corruption” is what lost us the last two elections. And because these portrayals are demonstrably untrue, we can reverse them.

3. We must recognize that we cannot beat the other guys by becoming “Democrats-light.” We will never be able to promise as much government nurturing or whisper as many compassionate sweet-nothings as the other guys. They are the mommy party; we are the daddy party. Sometimes the kids need their mommy, and they will run to mommy’s arms. But at the end of the day, the kids know they also need a daddy to protect them, to make the tough decisions, and to impose discipline. Our party must have the courage to stand for those things, even when the kids are running to mommy for hugs.

4. We need a messenger who can carry our message. Our message doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker. It is more complex, and it takes thought – not just emotion – to understand. But our approach works, and the other guys’ approach fails. To understand this, one needs to know something of economics and history. Many voters don’t. We need, in Mitt Romney’s words, an “educator in chief,” who can explain things to the voters. This was Reagan’s great talent, and W’s great failing. On most issues we are demonstrably right, and the other guys are demonstrably wrong, but it hardly matters if nobody takes the time to demonstrate.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:11 am 60. Self-hating boomer:

Voters want competency, and unfortunately, they were not seeing that from Republicans.

They’re going to find out right quick just how competent an affirmative action pol from Chicago who’s never accomplished anything in his life other than getting elected is going to be. Many starry-eyed morons are going to learn that the frying pan is a better place to be than the fire. That alone may make 2010 a repeat of 1994.

Imagine the shock when the single women who voted for him finally realize that they’re not going to lose weight because he’s president.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:13 am 61. toritto:

Republican principles – start with these.

1. We will defend the United States and the Constitution against all enemies.

2. We will be careful stewards of your money and control spending.

3. We will not tell you how to live your life.

4. All people are welcome in our tent.

Build a true center right coalition and Americans will respond. Seems to me the party violated all of those principles over the last eight years, including shredding the constitution.

You deserved to lose. You brought it on yourselves.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:23 am 62. toritto:

nick danger: Tsk tsk. If you’re morbidly depressed or suicidal we can arrange for an effete liberal in your neighborhood to provide counseling.

Just look at this country after eight years of a Republican president – you are either blind or living in another world.

You deserved to lose.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:27 am 63. Dennis N. Arashiro:

Van Hook Stratton has it right. Republicans just quietly run the country. That’s why things have been running so smoothly. The economy has never been better. The foreign policy front gives us no concerns. Our environment is pristine; our climate is in no peril. Our health care system provides for all. The Republicans have given us the best of all possible worlds. I’m sure America will wake up and realize this eventually.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:30 am 64. John the Libertarian:

Did everyone suddenly go retarded?! Just how many RINOs contribute to Pajamas Media?

Since when is voting for a $700 billion bail out and promising to buy up mortgages a conservative ideal? McCain is no conservative, and he lost because Obama out-Reagan’d him on tax cuts. Plus OB is younger, smoother and prettier, and can soothe our racial guilt in one easy stroke.

Stop being morons, Pajamas Media. This is the fourth whining RINO column I’ve seen since the election.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:36 am 65. crazy c:

As a disinterested observer (I am not american) I find the conservative debate (as highlighted by this article and the commentary) rather amusing. Calling the winners (Dems) names (like communist)may make you feel better, but won’t help the GOP win any more votes. The GOP lost the election because it only said what it was against – not what it was for. Why was Obama the only one offering a tax cut to the middle class? Whether this was a true statement or not is irrelevant – the point is McCain never articulated why voting republican was better for the middle class than voting democrat. That is why you lost. The debate about what conservativism should be or not be is a tempest in a teapot. A majority of the electorate doesn’t care. That is why a centre-right nation voted democrat. They believed that the democrats would be better for them. Everyone acts in their own self interest. That is a premise of all conservative (and liberal) thought. The trick is how to harness that and get the electorate to identify their self-interest with your values. Reagan did that beautifully as did Obama. So instead of arguing about conservative values – for which there is not much disagreement, why don’t you focus on aligning voter’s interests with those values. Becoming “more conservative” won’t attract any more people to vote for you, unless it is in their interest to do so. Explain how people will be better off and you might have a shot. For my 2 cents worth… the main problem the GOP has is requiring people to beleive in all of the so called “conservative values” or be excluded. For example, where does a pro-choice, pro-immigration, fiscal conservative, strong national security person fit into the current GOP? They get ridiculed out on items 1 and 2 even though 3 and 4 are GOP positions. Those people (otherwise known as independents) didn’t vote GOP for the most part because they weren’t included in the tent and didn’t believe the republicans were still fiscal conservatives. The ability to include people who may not agree on every issue is the hallmark of any successful political party. Ms. Rubin’s point was that unless a diversity of opinion is included in the GOP – you are doomed to the 25% of the electorate that all think alike (who happen to mostly be white, rural and small town, and from the south and mountain states). I think this was a shrewd observation that conservatives ignore to their peril.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:38 am 66. John the Libertarian:

Hey Dennis N. Arashiro:

you forgot to blame the avian bird flu and SARS on Republicans, too.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:42 am 67. Another View:

RickS
Really funny. I really laughed out loud.
I am truly a “centrist progressive”. I am willing to vote “yes” on any referendum to expand refining in the U.S. The point is the faithful parrots of the GOP have no clue of that aspect.

I am actually extremely conservative in my personal values. extremely. I will not debate them because they are personal and they work for me. Although I am a proud American I am a black American. And as you see in the post above there is no thought of trying to get Black votes(I won’t say African American until you say Euro American).

The pink elephant in the room is not all Americans came here for a better life. And that groups interest have never been addressed since they have had the right to vote(But has died in every war). And the answer the GOP has is squeeze them more and get over it. I am sorry there are millions of people who have been disenfranchised and they need help.They have spread our wealth and blood around. Give some back. If you are not ready to look at Americas past to see how we got here Then the GOP is finished.
And the whole Sarah Palin thing is a insult.. But I know you guys wanna send her to GOP university and teach her “uknow politics and what not”. Then send her back to rally the Hypothetical Plumbers and hockey moms. Yeah that’s what the country needs a bad Pageant contestant. And you guys believe that.

Why would Blacks,Hispanics or any other Citizen as a whole or majority or half vote GOP? Please tell me.

“We did not land at Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us.” Malcolm X

And yes “I love America and it’s citizens”.
I just refuse to get humped by anyone.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:45 am 68. AtlantaBill:

I don’t believe republicans understand the meaning of freedom in its truest form. To the contrary, they have in the past won elections by employing that “tried and tested” strategy of divide and conquer. They devise techniques to pit blacks against whites, immigrant vs non-immigrant, gay vs non-gay and on and on. Yes, these ploys have won elections in the past but when it comes to governing the republicans have been the worst. They run up huge deficits, wage unnecessary wars, and in general support policies that are totally against the interests of the middle and low-income constituents.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:46 am 69. cfbleachers:

They are not “leftists”, they are “progressives”. Aparently you were either taught in a private school or you were home schooled, and therefore missed the indoctrination.

Carl, I steadfastly refuse to reinforce propaganda by the adopting of terminology designed to shroud the intent, water down the goal or dilute the psy-ops nature of it.

There is nothing “progressive” about the reversion to failed ideologies of radical extremism. I lived through it in the 60’s. Neo-stals are just warmed over radical extremists from 40 years ago, better at shrouding their intent behind harmless sounding front names.

I say “leftist” to encompass and include anarchists, small “c” communists, large “C” Communists, Maoists, Trotskyites, hard left socialists, totalitarian in nature, anti-capitalist in structure, intolerant of dissent in practice.

A “liberal” especially a “traditional liberal” is not an anti-capitalist. They are more than willing to engage in debate, have a solid grounding in obedience to the law and are anti-authoritarian. The champion open discourse, encourage tolerance of multiple viewpoints, believe in standing up to bullies here and abroad and generally want equal opportunity but do not favor…favoritism.

I don’t call liberals…leftists. And I don’t call leftists…liberals. We need to carve away the distinction, because liberals will make the most compelling arguments against totalitarianism coming from the left side of the political spectrum. If they stand up and are counted when it comes from their side…it shows a level of integrity and independence of thought.

Similarly, I NEVER say “mainstream media”. There is nothing “main stream” about them. As I have stated repeatedly, if that is our main stream, I don’t want to drink from it. It is toxic, polluted and foul. They are certainly the entrenched media.

If we continue to use propagandists words to define them (and their issues) we imbue in them a power they did not earn and do not deserve. They “soften” up the resistance by framing the language and the issues with THEIR vocabulary. That’s a weapon for them and I sure as hell won’t fire it for them.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:46 am 70. anthony999:

“”if you’re a leftist and think more federal government intervention is the solution then you do NOT believe in that list of values? you are just another indigent looking for a mommy instead of taking care of you and yours. and you disguise your indigence as “concern” for the less fortunate. your hypocrisy is showing!

why not emigrate to some western european social democracy if that is what you desire?”"
===================================

Nick, I think it is quite telling that you presume to know what I do and do not believe in. I repeat my advice. Philosophies based on false assumptions will fail. I made specific points about the 4th, 9th and 10th amendments. You reply with assumptions about me that are so woefully and laughably inaccurate, they do not dignify a response. Just goes to show you who relies on the constitution for their beliefs and who relies on emotionalism and pure fiction.

Let me know if you are interested in a real discussion, or if you prefer to simply make things up and pretend that your fantasies are actually representative of what I believe.

My hypocrisy is showing? Quite the contrary. I am not the one who claims to believe in the constitution, but judiciously avoids any discussion of it in support of his beliefs.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:48 am 71. iconoclast:

#63

It is never so bad it cannot get worse. You are about to witness just that as leftards get control. With regard to the economy, government cannot pick winners, only “friends”–donors/lobbyists/bribers really. And leftards are particularly poor at picking winners, since they have an institutional bias against winners. Which is at least better than the institutional bias against America in world affairs.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:50 am 72. The Historian:

MCCAIN’S TARNISHED HONOR

John McCain has damaged his own reputation for no apparent reason:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/mccains-tarnished-honor.html

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:52 am 73. Sara:

Jennifer,

Someone took over your body while you were sleeping. Go back to bed, shake it off.

The issue is not that voters are opposed to smaller government and lower taxes (THE core values of the Republican party). Voters WANT that, and that is why Barack Obama promised he would cut taxes and get rid of burgeoning government programs.

Because Obama was a truly fresh face, people gave him the benefit of a doubt. Because McCain has been part of the problem of growing government and raising taxes for years, people didn’t believe him (or the party he respresents) and they had reason not to.

Bottom line. We bring in new people, who promise an end to fiscal insanity. We’ll win again.

http://www.saraforamerica.com

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:53 am 74. kochevnik:

Emerson,

>Just what we need, “values” advice from an atheist
>Jew.

You mean, like Einstein?

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:53 am 75. Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate:

Jennifer, first, thanks for your excellent campaign coverage.

This is going to be a long process. Folks expecting a 1992-style revolt may be disappointed. Obama will get an extended honeymoon, it will be easy to blame Bush for at lest the first 2 years, and the current tanking economy and stock market are tailor-made to give Obama a low starting point from which to build. Unless there is tremendous over-reach or a terrorism/foreign policy disaster (which I do not want to see), Obama is likely to be President for 8 years. Deal with it, and find ways to influence policy at the edges.

1) Consider non-partisan good-government changes. Earmark reform, Fair-Tax, transparency in campaign fund-raising, vote-counting integrity are all > 50% issues. Try to get them passed, and the amount of damage a Democrat majority can do is limited.

2) Immigration reform. Trade amnesty for true border control. If not addressed, this issue will continue to hammer Republicans. Cast it as a human rights issue, and make employers, not immigrants, the villains. Go to the migrant worker fields. I have, and the conditions, while not atrocious, make it clear that this is an exploited and vulnerable population. Be their champion.

3) Stop blaming the media for every loss. Yes, in the end, McCain was a poor spokesman for conservative values, but he had every chance to get his message out. Stop doubting all polls as biased. This led to many conservatives being surprised at their pasting last week. The RCP average was actually pretty spot on.

4) Begin a long, slow march back into the academies. We can no longer simply seed the first 10 years of a person’s voting life to the influence of their professors in college.

This is not a problem to fix in 2 years. This is retooling for an eternal struggle

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:55 am 76. Tsk Tsk:

This post is exactly why your party needs a overhaul.
53. MikeJW:

36. anthony999:
I think a big part of the problem with conservatives is that they actually think they are better than liberals. Look at this list of values ostensibly that are only”conservative”

YES! It seems that ALL of these are exclusive beliefs of conservatives. You are lying to yourself, just as everyone else in the RINO/Democrat community, if you can truthfully say otherwise.

Stop lying to yourself. Your BDS has taken you to an alternate universe where up is down and right is wrong.
Nov 13, 2008 – 8:01 am

Isn’t (R)Mark Foley all over the headlines today with his little male intern scandal. See you are a hypocrite. Like your Party.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:00 am 77. Nick:

Torrito,

So let me get this straight, McCain lost because he tried to shove SHAMNESTY down our throats and dems & reps both rose up and defeated him. I’ll let you in on a little secret: Hispanics are PEOPLE !!! Some are liberal, some are conservative, and some are mushy moderates that haven’t picked a side. Most of them obeyed the law, waited in line, and were told by McLame: “Boy were you suckers! Amnesty for everyone.”

I love it when someone who can’t stand conservatives tries to tell us what we need to do to win elections. What a joke.

Soupy,
“Moderate Conservative” is an oxymoron.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:01 am 78. veracious:

Jennifer,

Wow, no the righteous should have no party to represent them; this is obviously old fashioned. Truth after all changes constantly?

[sarcasm off]

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:20 am 79. RINO hunt | Cold Fury:

[...] Jennifer Rubin swills it on down in this pathetic bit of RINO rationalization, which ought to be subtitled thusly: Republicans are [...]

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:27 am 80. J.E.Rendini:

There are a number of gloating Social Democrats commenting on this post, but they do not appear as obviously out of place as they otherwise would because our fiscal conservative confreres are panicking and talking libertarian trash.

It’s not hard to read the subtext here: let’s focus on “pragmatic” politics to “rebuild the party” and get away from those “pesky” core (i.e., social, e.g., anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage) values that alienate young people and build a new, Republican coalition.

Strangely, however, that is not the strategy that the Democrat/Left followed when they were drubbed by Ronald Reagan (twice)and later by George W. Bush. At no time did they jettison their unpopular social beliefs in fear of becoming a permanent minority. No, they girded up their loins, set their faces like flint, and spent an untold amount of time and money laboring to infiltrate our social and educational institutions (and the corporate workplace) so they could propagandize ourselves and our children relentlessly and change OTHER PEOPLE’s social beliefs.

Another strange notion is that we Republicans can avoid Dixicrat status by shifting left. But that’s not what will happen. If we shift away from the “right,” the libertarian/fiscal conservative wing of the party will fracture and be substantially absorbed by the Democrats. Why try to build a new Republican coalition when the Democrats have already done it?

My core beliefs are socially conservative. From them, I extrapolate my free-market economics/limited government and strong national defense beliefs. If I were forced to choose between them, I would choose my social beliefs and sacrifice the other two. But that’s not the way the world works. The three branches of conservativism reinforce one another and the other two are logically consistent outgrowths of any one. The problem is that libertarians, whose morals embrace abortion and gay rights, masquerade as free market/fiscal conservatives, who understand that free markets and limited government are inconsistent with permissive social and sexual morals.

Our choice is clear: do we stand for the American way of life – strong families, strong economy, strong defense – or do we slither over to the left and adopt the European/Russian mode – with its irreversibly aging demographics, collapsing fertility rates, and imploding social welfare systems? If we move to the center, the country as a whole moves to the left, and the Euro/Russian model is where we are going.

The only way to save this nation is to oppose the Left, to maintain and reinforce the distinctiveness of the conservative movement, to stand astride the tide of history and shout “Stop!” Obama is going to fail because he is wrong, no matter how many pimple-faced neophytes support him. We do not want any part of him. The electorate will become disappointed and dissatisfied and, with the assistance of our constant efforts, shift back to the right. But when they shift back to the right, will they find the Republican Party there?

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:35 am 81. toritto:

I’ll repeat:

Republican principles – start with these.

1. We will defend the United States and the Constitution against all enemies.

2. We will be careful stewards of your money and control spending.

3. We will not tell you how to live your life.

4. All people are welcome in our tent.

Build a true center right coalition and Americans will respond. Seems to me the party violated all of those principles over the last eight years, including shredding the constitution.

You deserved to lose. You brought it on yourselves.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:37 am 82. james ruston:

If the Republican Party is to again become relevant, it must do something about the Christian right, which has hijacked the party. You cannot win elections by calling three quarters of the electorate evil. I am not talking about the position on issues of the Christian right. Let’s put their issues in the public forum, discuss them, and let the best arguments win. I am talking about the Christian right’s tactics of calling everyone who disagrees with them the spawn of satan. That’s a slight exaggeration, but not much. They put all issues in the context of their moral perspective, which they make quite clear is of a much higher standard than their opponents, because God is on their side. With regard to abortion, for instance, women who abort their fetuses have no moral standing, no matter what the circumstances of their lives. They are simply baby killers. Who is going to vote for people who talk like that, except other zealots? The zealots are in a distinct minority, yet they appear to talk for the entire Republican Party. Worse, many of the issues the Christian right promotes fly in the face of the traditional Republican desire to keep the government, especially the federal government, out of the private lives of the citizens. The Christian right would have the government snooping around in the bedrooms of our citizens. This is not a winning strategy.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:37 am 83. Chilloutyo:

The Marxists-elect will face significant problems:
1) massively increased terrorism (think weapons of mass destruction/Iran)
2) inflation rates not seen since Jimmy Carter (think 20% plus when all the bailouts are done)
3) unemployment well north of 10%
4) tens of millions of retirees with no life savings (think 401K’s and pensions that are near worthless)

I don’t think Republicans need to be moderate at all…being well armed and ready is probably better advice.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:39 am 84. fear Obama:

2010 will see another Democrat House Cleaning.

The Stock market is crashing/dropping like and rock and now the Congressional bailout has no leadership.************
“It’s a mess,” said Eric M. Thorson, the Treasury Department’s inspector general, who has been working to oversee the bailout program until the newly created position of special inspector general is filled. “I don’t think anyone understands right now how we’re going to do proper oversight of this thing.”
*****************************
And they said Bush screwed up Hurricane Katrina!

Democrats are in control of the House and Senate,
this is their salvation for the American people.

And you want these cabbage heads to handle our Universal Health Care?

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:42 am 85. Troy Riser:

Hey you, yeah you, the jew-baiter up there, Emerson: don’t want you associated with conservativism, so why don’t you and Patrick ‘Hitler was a great man’ Buchanan form your own party. You can hold rallies in uniform, wear armbands and everything, the whole deal. The rest of us will somehow muddle through without you.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:43 am 86. toritto:

chilloutyo: You keeping your fingers crosse are you?

Not this time.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:56 am 87. Nick:

James Ruston,

We don’t think God is on our side, we just try to be on His side.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:56 am 88. goy:

@70. anthony999:

- Nick, I think it is quite telling that you presume to know what I do and do not believe in.

anthony999, perhaps you should go back and re-read YOUR earlier post, which includes:
“I think a big part of the problem with conservatives is that they actually think they are better than liberals.”

This is hypocrisy of the highest order, in that you seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to assume you know what conservatives think and then lambaste someone for assuming same about you. That’s the ironic part. The pathetic part is that you’re also demonstrably wrong, as is plainly evident in the core values of conservatives.

But you don’t just stop there. Next we have:
“Look at this list of values ostensibly that are only”conservative”

NOWHERE in Pelto’s post is it expressed or implied that the values listed were “only” conservative. I’m sure you’ll correct me if appropriate, but I don’t see nick stressing this anywhere either. So your strawman breaks down irretrievably right there.

You go on after hypocrisy and strawman to demonstrate nothing less than a total lack of critical thinking:
“Do conservatives honestly believe they are the only ones who hold these principles dear? Do conservatives honestly believe they actually practice all of these principles cositently?”

What? NOW you’re ASKING what conservatives think? When you started your limp screed by claiming to know what “they actually think”? No. You’re simply attacking your own strawman. This goes beyond hypocrisy into something akin to senselessness.

Conservatives who hold Pelto’s list of values dear do, in fact, practice them all pretty consistently. The mistake you may be making is to assume that the current incarnation of the GOP is actually conservative or representative of conservative core values. It’s not. And a large part of this discussion is aimed at how to fix that.

- Amending the constitution to ban gay marriage
Refresh my memory – when did this happen, exactly? Furthermore, when was the Constitution amended to specifically recognize a “right” to same-sex marriage? Or a “right” to abortion, for that matter? Neither of these has anything to do with small government. They have to do with the manner in which the founders understood HOW to effect CHANGE: rationally, and within the constraints of the Constitution, not through judicial activism and the creation of rights out of contorted re-interpretations of the Bill of Rights.

- Every one of my beliefs is firmly rooted in the United States Constitution.
Doubtful. At least not if you’re the “typical” leftist, which ideology is rooted in a philosophy that is diametrically opposed to the values upon which this country was founded, and which propelled it to the pinnacle of human civilization in record time.

My unsolicited advice to you is to stop being a hypocrite and lambasting others for claiming to know what you think, immediately following your own claim to know what conservatives think.

See #10 up above. For some reason that post didn’t appear until just a short time ago, but it addresses your confusion.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:01 am 89. CSM:

Jennifer,

You are 180 degrees off course. McCain’s nomination combined with eight years of big government republicanism from the Bush administration doomed this election for the GOP.

McCain was the ‘not Obama’ vote, not the Republican Party vote. Strong defense and pro-life positions were about the only thing McCain shared with the conservatives. He is your ideal kiss and make-up with the middle candidate and yet he lost. For the majority of the campaign he ran as close to a moderate Democrat as could be.

You can’t blame Palin either. She’s the reason more conservative voters didn’t follow the lead of Joe Farah, the editor of World Net Daily and stay at home on Election Day.

You, like Governor Pawlenty, or for that matter Peggy Noonan, are looking back to the future in a misguided attempt to make the GOP even closer to a Democrat-light party. Your recommendation offers nothing but a prolonged period of howling in the wilderness.

The number of independent voters grew since 2000 as conservatives deserted the GOP. That group can only be recaptured by decontaminating the scandal tainted Republican brand. They will not return unless the GOP presents principled opposition to the socialist inclinations of the Democrat’s looming one-party rule with positive, common sense alternatives. The party of ideas must return and when asked which party is the party of wasteful earmarks and pork, the voters must be inclined to point squarely at the loony leftists of the DNC.

Rugged individualism, limited government and INTEGRITY are what the GOP must reestablish as its core values and cannot afford to abandon.

It was an integrity gap that cost control of Congress in 2006 and continues to today. Compounding the integrity gap in 2008 were an anti-Bush vote, a horribly disorganized and anti-republican campaign by McCain, and profligate wasteful spending in the form of the Wall Street bailout.

To repair the GOP brand, we have to narrow the tent and put forward eloquent, principled, morally unimpeachable candidates in 2010: over-the-top squeaky clean and candidates highlighting the differences between the swamp creatures elected by the left and what it means to be a republican.

More importantly, we must articulate the equivalent of a new contract with America. Then we must stick to it; no reaching across the aisle, no compromises with Pelosi, Reid, or O’Blah-blah. The GOP needs to assume a take-no-prisoners conservatism, while offering real hope and substantial change from the hype and chump-change soon to emerge from the O’Bummer administration.

We need to grow a pair and fight for our beliefs and the rule of law. It is also incumbent upon the GOP to overcome the indoctrination of government schools and educate the electorate on the importance of the inherent limiting powers of our Constitution.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:03 am 90. Roger Snowden:

Republicans lost in 2006 specifically because their behaviour did not match their rhetoric. That is, they talked conservative, but just completed a long run of weekend-liberty spending.

Republicans do fine when they actually behave as Republicans, and demonstrate genuine conservative values with sensible legislation.

Republicans will never win elections by being less conservative. The Left is the domain of the Democrats, let them have it. The social conservative victories in Florida and California are simple examples of what voters actually want: conservative leadership through actions, not words alone.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:05 am 91. Tex Taylor:

So let’s see if I follow the logic. Humor me for a minute.

McCain lost while grabbing about 46% of the total vote. Of that, I must assume that approximately 3/4 of those voters were pretty much social conservatives like myself as indicated by the all red south and southwest states; the places where where McCain generally won overwhelmingly. Now that represents about 35% of the entire voting population or 43MM voters.

So if we 43MM lilly white, old men and women and some dull but steady young adults, too fuddy-duddy to get with the newest line of moderate thinking, would just jettison our deepest held beliefs and be a part of a great big tent, we could guarantee some rudderless leaders with the ‘R’ beside their name would be our next President and majority Congress? That’s wonderful. I can be like Europe, feckless and void, but I get to call myself the ruling majority.

No thanks. I’ll gladly be relegated to the minority status and let God sort it all out. But I guess that’s kind of old-fashion thinking too.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:08 am 92. G Alston:

#19 John

You have a point. I’ll pick one from your list: stem cell research. If I were in charge, I’d not fund it. Period. But I wouldn’t try to invoke “moral” reasons why (although there are perfectly valid reasons) because the _only_ thing this does is allow the opposition to paint me as anti-scientific, antediluvian, and so on. And frankly, most of the people who oppose stem cell research seem to fit those labels.

Instead, I’d simply say that it’s not the business of the federal government to fund it. Nor is it the business of the federal government to fund a number of other things. I didn’t get the memo that said basic medical research can only happen via the taxpayer.

In short… it’s one thing to argue that stem cell research isn’t the fed government’s problem. It’s quite another to use it as a big club to dictate moral positions. The former is acceptable to everyone who is not on the leftist bandwagon. The latter doesn’t even appeal to me, and I’d never vote democrat.

The name of the game is to appeal, to have an argument that is reasonable regardless of where you go to church or even if you go. Most of the posters here seem to have the attitude that you ban such research “because it’s wrong” — (D:sez who?) — (R:sez me!) — (D:so what? Bite me.) — and the voters will flock to their side because it’s the “right” thing to do. What a steaming load of pure wishful thinking.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:11 am 93. BD57:

Here’s the problem for conservatives:

We’re trying to sell self-determination to an audience who only cares about security … can I go to the doctor? Will I have a job? What about my retirement? And so on.

The basic pitch of Democrats is “we’ll take care of all those things for you.” How? “The only reason you’re struggling with those things is because you’re being held down by others – the corporations, the rich, etc. Once we take care of them, you’ll be fine.”

Republicans have to devise policies which {a} allow the people to solve these problems themselves; and {b} are more beneficial to those who embrace them than anything the Democrats are offering. And then convince people it’s worth it to them to take the risk on the “self determination” alternative.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:26 am 94. Lou Dyer Jones:

LOL, this is great reading. With the line of thought represented in these comments, the GOP will be in the wilderness for a loooong time, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:27 am 95. Aureliano:

They put all issues in the context of their moral perspective, which they make quite clear is of a much higher standard than their opponents, because God is on their side.

Funny. Replace ‘God is’ with ‘People on TV are’ and you pretty much describe most Democrats.

Which pretty much explains your Hollywood, CNN, local newscast stereotypes of Christians.

Then again, there ARE difficulties within the Republican coaliation. However, that’s the case with all political parties or movements (just ask the “No on Prop 8″ people out in California for a lesson in factional ideological imcompatibilities within a political coalition).

Do yourself a favor and turn off the TV, K?

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:28 am 96. Lou Dyer Jones:

“Republicans do fine when they actually behave as Republicans”

You mean by inciting hatred and class warfare?

Sorry, idiots. As much as I know you all loved shouting “Who IS Barack Obama” and “William Ayers! William Ayers!” and giving rich people lots more money, that dog don’t hunt no more. We are officially a center-left nation.

So eat it.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:29 am 97. Craig S. Maxwell:

Though Jennifer Rubin despairs of our return to “core conservative values” there is, in fact, nothing else for us to do (except, of course, to jettison the shabby term “values” altogether). With the liberal mind (and its political manifestation–the Democratic Party) hopelessly mired in relativism, the only hope for conservative Republicans is to eschew all political gimmickry and compromised campaign stratagems and return to the timeless moral principles that under gird all sound statesmanship.
Abraham Lincoln summarized this point beautifully:
“I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.”

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:30 am 98. Ixa:

The reason the Republican party as-it-is lost and will continue to lose is this: hope trumps fear always. Hope was what created this country. Hope in the face of fear is what makes this country great. Hope and a “Yes we can” spirit has defined America. Bush is gone and we and the world can now exhale and move forward.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:35 am 99. “The Paradigm Shift” « Assaulting the Spire:

[...] More “Conservatives” are seemingly lining up to say that the Republican party is doomed to a permanent minority while others are even going far enough to defend the strange plans that our new President-Elect has [...]

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:38 am 100. Chuck Pelto:

TO: BD57
RE: Good Point….

We’re trying to sell self-determination to an audience who only cares about security … — BD57

…that. And pathetically accurate. So, I’m reminded of that famous observation….

In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free. — Edward Gibbon

The situation, as you describe it…

can I go to the doctor? Will I have a job? What about my retirement? And so on. — BD57

….will result in their total dependency on the State, as provided by whatever The One is in charge. In other words, a dictatorship. And in such a ’state’, there is even LESS ’security’, as the whims of The One will impact on them as Jerry Pournelle describes life in the Welfare Islands of the Falkenberg Legion series. Or Haldeman describes ‘city living’ in The Forever War.

But these fools won’t see it until the situation is too bad to turned around without a LOT of blood-letting.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The American Republic will endure until the time the politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexander de Tocqueville; Democracy In America c. 1830]

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:42 am 101. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Lou Dyer Jones

You mean by inciting hatred and class warfare?

Sorry, idiots. — Lou Dyer Jones

Can you say, ‘Projection’?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Projection, v., When people describe in you what they do themselves.]

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:44 am 102. Dave W:

We’ve gone down the road of “compassionate conservatism” that was suppose to deliver electoral majorities for generations to come. Instead what we got was slapped down in the last two elections because we were trying to be “Democrats Lite”. This election was NOT a transformational one. It was a combination of a new face coming onto the national stage who promised almost everyone tax cuts (normally a Republican issue), a failing economy that hasn’t been seen in decades, and a Republican candidate that was not trusted by his own base. Reaganism and conservatism are not dead. Obama can be defeated in 2012 if Republicans return to principles of fiscal discipline and provide a stark difference to Democrats rather than a mushy one.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:44 am 103. kochevnik:

Ixa,

You’re on that fine line between feeble hope and full-blown ignorance.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:49 am 104. goy:

@92. G Alston: precisely!

And the same goes for the abortion issue. Attacking abortion on moral grounds may be attractive to the self-righteous, but at the end of the day the opposition is going to (successfully) attack that self-righteousness.

The reason for that success is that – from a social and governance standpoint – this issue is a Constitutional one, not specifically a moral one. Want a recognized right to abortion? Simple. Get a Constitutional Amendment passed that recognizes that right – along with any limitations. That is the “Living” Constitution in action – as ingeniously designed by the founders to allow governance to “Change” with the times. One of our biggest problems today is that most folks on both sides don’t understand that or stress it enough.

This approach would slam the door on Alinsky’s Ridicule. Reverses it, actually. Absent the religion factor, the left are the ones who can then be ridiculed for either (a) having no clue how the Constitution actually works and/or (b) presenting such a non-compelling argument that they must try to go around the rules using judicial activism.

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:53 am 105. Aureliano:

Lou Dyer Jones,

You strike me as one of those people who is endlessly confused about the reasons why half of all households in the United States have an income below the median, no matter what policies are enacted ….

Don’t worry though. Obama will outlaw stupidity and sloth. Not much longer now before you get the joke ….

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:56 am 106. Dennis N. Arashiro:

Hey, John the Libertarian,
Your comment about my forgetting to blame the Republicans for the avian bird flu and SARS was the perfect argument. Now anybody will be able to use that to escape responsibility for anything he does. The next time Republicans attack Democrats for legitimate reasons, the Democrats can just say with a roll of the eyes,”You forgot to blame us for restless leg syndrome.”

Nov 13, 2008 - 10:57 am 107. Craig:

“The choice is up to them: become the Dixiecrats of the 21st century or forge a new Republican majority.”

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. You obviously have not read any books on conservative thinking. Suggest you read the following:

The Closing of the American Mind- Allan Bloom
The Road to Serfdom- Friedrich Hayak
Wealth of Nations- Adam Smith

Go read those. And when you’re done, comeback with something that makes sense.

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:04 am 108. Fred:

“The social conservative victories in Florida and California are simple examples of what voters actually want: conservative leadership through actions, not words alone.”

If soical conservative victories are about taking away rights, social conservatives pretty much suck… California and Florida were wins for religious interference…(and I’m straight and married). An outside force – the Mormen Church, financed the anti-gay win in Califnornia. Watch out conservatives – that kind of thing can go two ways…

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:12 am 109. Mitch:

The conflict btwn social and economic conservatism is overstated. For example, small-govt people object to state-run daycare and after-school programs b/c it will bloat taxes and spending, whereas social conservatives object b/c they know it will crowd out the unsubsideized options of church/family-run programs. It’s not that conservatives hate kids (as the MSM suggests) it’s just that we’d rather have the choice btwn our own programs and having the state raise our kids.

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:19 am 110. Aureliano:

An outside force – the Mormen Church

You’re forgetting the Morwomen Church. Sexist.

Outside force? Are there no mormons in California? Actually, I did a little googling on this:
CA Mormoms: 1.9%
CA Gays: 3.5%*

Unless you’re scientifically applying some definition of ‘outside’, it appears the mormons are only a slightly more minority minority than gays, and thus are not ‘outside’ of CA, and have a right to give money to any political movement they choose.

Put another way, prove that “No on Prop 8″ did not receive any money from ‘outside’ forces.

* Approximate. (If you try to respond with that creaky old bit of moronicism that 10% of the population is homosexual, you will be banned from the Internet for life.)

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:31 am 111. lee:

If Republicans try to go center, or try to beat the democracts by, well, being more like them, then I’ll be voting for a third party candidate. Honestly, what’s the point?

If we’re becoming more like Asia or Europe, I’m going to be depressed. I wonder if 12-15 hour workdays and kids spending 8 hours in internet game rooms will soon be a reality in the United States also.

Obama will pretty much follow the Bush line and bail out one company after another, even though they failed because of the inefficient American economic model. A real agent of “hope and change” would have addressed the entitlement programs and benefits for the union that eats up company finances. GM has been mismanaged for years. Of course, unions helped elect Obama.

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:36 am 112. toritto:

I find it amazing.

The GOP lost every major growing demographic and every major metropolitan area including “independent” affluent suburbs from coast to coast.

The GOP lost INDIANA! INDIANA for crying out loud!

America rose up last Tuesday and voted for a black guy with an Arab name over a bonafide war hero!

…and a lot of you folks don’t think the party has to do some “rethinking”? You think electory victory lies in being more “pure”? More right wing? That you can keep selling the 6,000 year old earth and creationism?

Let me put it in terms you might understand: If the GOP were a corporation it is losing market share. Its competitor is beating it badly. The heads of management would roll.

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:50 am 113. goy:

toritto, at some point the cluebat will hit you with the discovery that conservatism isn’t about creationism, the rapture or any of the other religious caricatures you’ve been trained by the entrenched media to paint it with. Best of luck ’til then. In the meantime, read Pelto’s list at #2.

We’re working on the heads-rolling thing – at least it’s finally being discussed. Stay tuned.

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:01 pm 114. Chuck Pelto:

TO: toritto
RE: Not Necessarily

If the GOP were a corporation it is losing market share. Its competitor is beating it badly. The heads of management would roll. — toritto

The way thinks have been going this last month….

….they’d be in line for a bailout….if the Democrat-controlled Congress would allow it for their direct competition.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[In order to defeat the competition, you must first defeat your own company.]

P.S. We’re working on it. But it’s going to require a LOT of effort in EVERY county to overcome the entrenched idiots who got US into this situation…..

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:02 pm 115. james ruston:

Sorry Nick. You say that you are trying to be on God’s side. The problem is that the Christian right knows, without any shadow of a doubt, what that involves. And they make no bones about pointing out that the rest of us don’t Again, you cannot win elections by calling everybody who disagrees with you evil.

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:03 pm 116. Bill Menge:

So…I’m curious…from what segment of the population will the Republicans get the force to propel them forward into majority…or victory? It doesn’t seem to be coming from the youth, the Hispanics, the Blacks, the educated white person, the northeasterner, the Pacific Coaster, the Great Lakes adjacent folks, women. So…where’s the propelling force? The uneducated white rural voter?…the Christian Fundamentalist (and that includes the Mormons)? The Orthodox Jew, the plains folks?…The former Dixiecrat? The anti civil rights person? The Alaskans?…Which one of those is on the ascendancy? And how does the Republican party write a platform to appeal even to that minority grouping with such differing values? America has changed! So much for the Rovian fantasy of the permanent majority. I have an idea! Cheat!

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:04 pm 117. Party of 1 » Blog Archive » The New Dixiecrats?:

[...] Jennifer Rubin at Pajamas Media suggests that Republicans may be in danger of becoming the “new Dixiecrats.” 0 Comments | Share this post [...]

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:05 pm 118. Frossca:

A. View said:

What is obnoxious is this America or that America. If you criticize or question you are un-American.

In the new America that has Changed. Now whether or not you’re un-American depends on how much of your property you’re willing to hand over the the government to be “shared”.

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:11 pm 119. johnbrown:

When election time comes around, the Democrats have a core constituency of union members, blacks, academics, and government workers. This is not likely to change unless there’s a nuclear war, so the GOP has to write off the urban areas. The Republicans have for many years depended mainly on suburbanites to give them a national constituency (in addition to rural voters). Many suburbanites moved left during the Clinton years, mainly because of the general prosperity and social liberalism; recently, other suburbanites have moved left, due to their sudden loss of income on their houses and jobs (Obama did extremely well in counties that, until recently, showed good eceonomic growth rates and rising home values). Such voters don’t give a damn about “limited government” and lower tax rates (which aren’t that oppressive in the first place).
Add to this the fact that some of the big GOP programs of the Reagan years, such as the cold war against the USSR, the war against crime, and welfare reform, have been successful!
The GOP needs to become a middle class party again like it was in Lincoln’s time.
1. Expand affirmative action to cover people of low incomes rather than simply minorities.
2. Reform the immmigration laws so as to allow more legal immigration (face it: the quotas are too low and there’s work to be done). Allow small employers to sponsor legal immigrant status for foreigners who agree to work for them.
3. Provide health care coverage by allowing people to buy into the insurance programs covering government employees. But, for God’s sake, do something about health care! Costs are rising at a ridiculous rate.
4. Leave Iraq when their government tells us to. Or put it to a referendum of the Iraqi people.
5. Fight for school vouchers. Hell, make them applicable all the way through college.
6. If you really believe in it, make the case for free enterprise; don’t just say “lower taxes” and “small government” and “don’t soak the rich”. 40% of Americans don’t pay income taxes, so these appeals mean nothing to them. If it really does hurt us to soak the rich (who are themselves trending Democratic) then explain why.
That’s it. Thanks for your time!

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:15 pm 120. Chris:

I’m willing to open up to attract the number of people necessary to win elections (else we cannot implement policy), but NOT at the expense of a core set of beliefs. We can debate what that constitutes, but once decided upon, all else needs to complement rather than contradict it. I’m stil convinced that our message, if effectively communicated, is well received.

Losing a few elections does not change the truths around which our rhetoric swirls (sais because too often it is empty rhetoric). Look at all the unnecessary stuff we buy because ads effectively convince us that we need it. We need to get the public, who is essentially politically uneducated, to buy into ownership of our core ideals. Obama did that, except what was bought into was less ideals than the market plan. But Americans bought into it, and supported it into the WH. How much better we can do with a real set of real policies.

I’m skeptical of a plan which says to sell the public what it wants. Ok where being fickle has no consequences, not so for basic social structures. We were founded on protections from human truths. Let that protection slip to win elections, and all we’ve done is contribute to the inevitable feeding frenzy which will be our downfall.

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:19 pm 121. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Bill Menge
RE: Good Question

So…I’m curious…from what segment of the population will the Republicans get the force to propel them forward into majority…or victory? — Bill Menge

But it might come in a different form than you would care for.

Perhaps a cometary or asteroidal impact in the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean. Something that would generate a tsunami that would wipe out the population of liberals-progressives that gave US The One as president.

You know….

….something the insurance companies would refer to, in their failure to pay-up, an ‘Act of God’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Ever read Niven and Pournelle’s Lucifer’s Hammer?

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:25 pm 122. kochevnik:

johnbrown,

Reagan’s wars are abject failures. Crime has lessened because Roe vs Wade allowed fewer unwanted, unloved children in society. Mother does know best, especially if her prodigy will join a gang or die for oil. Not to say there’s vast room for improvement.

CCCP failed because the system ran on authority. Once that failed at the top, the tapestry quickly unraveled. Reagan had little to do with it, and the CIA was the last to know.

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:57 pm 123. David:

This is not a good analysis. The Republican nominated John McCain – as true blue a centrist and “moderate” as there has ever been, and he still lost. Had the Democrats been in power now, and we had the financial collapse and two long wars still ongoing, they would’ve been tossed out, too. That’s just historical reality – the party perceived as being “in power”(the President’s party) gets it hard from voters when economic times are tough, no matter what the actual cause of those economic woes.

We will not “out Democrat” the Democrats. Republicans have had the best success in the past thirty years by being staunchly Conservative. Reagan in 1980 and the Gingrich revolution in 1994 were our most conservative eras – and they provided us with the biggest electoral gains.

We are conservatives because the ideas are RIGHT, not to win elections. So it doesn’t serve to “modify” or change what is the best way to approach governance(conservatism) just to win elections. Our task is not to change so we can win(that won’t work anyway – look at McCain), it’s to educate the population as to why our way is best and encourage them to vote accordingly.

Conservatism has to be constantly explained to society, as it goes beyond “Stage 1″ thinking, unlike liberalism. Liberals can rely on the most basic emotional idea, such as “shouldn’t everybody have free healthcare?” The conservative position takes education – not only are such things unfair to many, but they are actually HARMFUL in many ways, too. There are unintended consequences to government action that make things bad for society. The financial meltdown is another example . LIberals said – “we should make banks loan money to minorities who can’t pay to create “fairness”. Well, the unintended consequences of such “fairness” were ultimate financial collapse of the lending system.

Conservatism has to be explained to people constantly. We have not done this in a long time, partly because most of our leaders don’t understand it themselves. They’ve been acting like liberals in congress and in the White House for years. You don’t change conservatism to win. You start communicating it and showing people why the ideas work. To do that you need communicators who actually believe the philosophy themselves. We haven’t had that.

Nov 13, 2008 - 12:59 pm 124. toritto:

I’m an old guy. I was born when FDR was President. I grew up under Ike.

Social Security has been around all my life. I’m collecting it now. I certainly can’t live on it alone but my other savings ensure I want for nothing.

I am on Medicare. I had to pay for my own private insurance between age 64 and 65, I cost me $1,120 per month – for me alone. Luckily I could afford it for a year. If it wasn’t for Medicare I would be uninsured. I could simply die in my house and I presume the neighbors would eventually notice the smell. (Have you seen old man Toritto and his cat lately?).

I first attended college at the City University of New York – when it was free. I had to take refresher courses to get in but in I got.

I served four years during the Vietnam unnecessary war and finished college on the G. I. Bill. While Nixon was talking of “bringing the troops home with Honor” most of the 58,000+ troops died. Kids mostly.

I sent two daughters to college and was successful enough that my wife didn’t have to work if she didn’t want to. I collected unemployment insurance only once for a short period of time. (another socialist give-away program?)

My point is this: The currently important things in my life, Social Security, Medicare and a college education were broght to me by “liberals”. Conservatives have opposed S/S since Roosevelt; Medicare only got passed after the Goldwater debacle swept out the Republicans. My first two years of college were thanks to liberal New York City.

Conservatives simply don’t talk about real issues. Although I had a very successful corporate career I am smart enough to know that the benefits I received – the 40 hour work week – vacation and sick days – health benefits – pension benefits etc. were mine only because some union had fought and won those benefits for the workers at large 25 years before.

So what’s in the GOP for me? A religious fanatic peeking in my bedroom? Lower taxes for the very wealthy and corporations? Endless militarism? Doing away with “socialism?” McCain couldn’t articulate why the majority of Americans should vote for him.

I like to think those folks in Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania. the “white working class”, finally opened their eyes and voted their interests instead of your “values” this election.

Nov 13, 2008 - 1:28 pm 125. Susna:

Just read an article by Karl Rove, according to him the major reason why Mcain lost was because so many conservatives sat out the election and did not vote. This was because he was NOT conservative enough for the base. Sara was the one who made it palitable for the rest of us. If the Republicans could just stick to their core values and not waver or compromise, they will win. To many wimps and Rinos, hopefully they will be elimated and God will rise up new people. Sara Palin is an example of what is to come.
Susan

Nov 13, 2008 - 1:28 pm 126. toritto:

Oh Susna! St. Sara of the Snows is a moron – and the whole world knows it. McCain could have visited any countryclub over a weekend and found a more qualified candidate.

She will be the death of Republicanism. She is every Democrats wish.

Nov 13, 2008 - 1:43 pm 127. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Susna
RE: Interesting Report

Just read an article by Karl Rove, according to him the major reason why Mcain lost was because so many conservatives sat out the election and did not vote. — Susna

Gotta URL I can use to pass on to the local party sadistician? Might help in our overthrowing the characters in charge of this fiasco.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[If stupidity got us into the mess, why can't it get us out?]

Nov 13, 2008 - 1:47 pm 128. Pinkytoo:

As an “unaffiliated” voter who votes the issues and NOT the Party, I heartily agree with Toritto. If the Republicans can get back to their “core message” (note – I did NOT use the term “values)of

1. We will defend the United States and the Constitution against all enemies.

2. We will be careful stewards of your money and control spending.

3. We will not tell you how to live your life.

4. All people are welcome in our tent.

and actually put that message into action, I would vote Republican. However, in the last I-can’t-remember-how-many elections, the GOP most certainly did NOT represent messages 2, 3, or 4 and lied about #1. Let me cite some examples: #2 – HA, need I say more; #3 – Pro-life or under any other name; #4 Gays and immigrants need not apply.

You don’t need to look any further than those 4 messages. You don’t need to be more conservative, or less conservative, or any other political label. You just need to deliver on the message and QUIT BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE.

p.s. Just my personal opinion as a woman – Sarah Palin is a joke and was only put on the ticket to trick people into thinking that the GOP was anything other than old white rich dudes. It didn’t work.

Nov 13, 2008 - 1:50 pm 129. toritto:

Pinkytoo: I love you. Will you marry me??

Nov 13, 2008 - 2:01 pm 130. Chuck Pelto:

TO: toritto
RE: Yeah?

McCain could have visited any countryclub over a weekend and found a more qualified candidate. — toritto

Tell me how many countryclub goers, even state governors, have their own version of NORAD?

Governor Palin’s Alaskan National Guard has a Patriot Missile Battalion on full-time active duty. That means their battalion Headquarter and Headquarter Battery (HHB) and Tactcial Operations Center (TOC) functions as a mini-NOrth American Air Defense organization for the state of Alaska.

I’ve been to country clubs. I don’t recall meeting many people there who have such awesome military authority. Heck. Not even the Governator has that kind of military organization at his beck and call.

So. Please. Tell US where McCain could have found a better running mate? And PULEASE don’t even think that Obama or Biden could say the same for themselves.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[There is no such thing as cure for 'dumb'.]

Nov 13, 2008 - 2:22 pm 131. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. You and Pinkytoo were made for each other. You two going to Connecticut soon?

Nov 13, 2008 - 2:23 pm 132. Spindok:

I can only relate where I stand.

I am a small “l” libertarian. I have voted near all Republican since I came of age in the Reagan era and would like to continue doing that.

I see many confusing terms here about what liberal or conservative means. In the classical sense, as I understand it, neither party is truly liberal at this point. Neither cares about individual rights or responsibility and both are pushing to use government to effect the end goal of social/moral/economic norms as they see fit.

There is nobody here who has convinced me that John McCain was committed to small government or individual liberty on a broad range of issues. I would welcome any such argument.

So fine. I have no real representation but am very willing to compromise in terms of what is or not important to me. That is the two-party system we have and I am willing to go with that.

If the Republican party is going to proceed along the lines we saw in the past election you have lost my vote. Statistics show that this last time you lost big time in the swing center in my important state of Ohio and neighboring states. Show me results.

We dont want to hear about gay marriage or creationism in the schools. Our jobs are on the line. Keep bleating about that and keep losing elections.

You want to promote families? Give us work and prosperity. Leave us alone to raise our families as best we can. We did just fine without preaching from government about ‘family values’. We got that.

I am a theist and religious person. I am also an American citizen and worker. That means that I live and work next to people very different in background and belief than myself. It means that I accept a civil society which does not match my own religious or political belief. We still seem to be able to move a product at work and get the leaves raked up and disposed of every year when we get home.

Spindok

Nov 13, 2008 - 2:35 pm 133. proud elitist:

Question to the republican voters on this board:

Are the current Republicans, to include McCain, representative of the conservatism you value?

- – - – -

Conservative principles, as argued often by voices like Andrew Sullivan, are not present in the current GOP leadership.

In truth, this was a Democrats’ election to lose.

Bush. Iraq. Economy. Katrina. All things Americans were tired of.

Who said change? Who talked about the middle class? Who talked about your values? Obama.

Review fivethirtyeight.com and look at the spread of the electorate. Who were the people who voted for McCain?

Compare/contrast with those who voted for Obama. In minority groups, Obama voters represented 60+% of their respective demographics. So, yes, you need to reach out to minorities.

As some have said above, remove the holier-than-thou moralism from your stances because you can reach out to a larger group of people. There are many ways to argue the same point without invoking the “G” word.

Some people are uncomfortable with a non-secular government. And when I say “some,” I mean people who are believers but want their country to be governed under secular means.

And I would hope that ALL of us are more than outraged that Paulson/US Treasury are not revealing WHO they bailed out and by HOW much and demanding a PAPER TRAIL of exactly where that money went. We should ALL be peeved and demand transparency.

You can sit on either side of the fence (left/right; liberal/conservative; democrat/republican) and still share many similar values/value systems.

And, finally, reach out to younger voters, embrace Teh Internets, Teh Facebooks, Teh MySpaces, Teh Small Donors. Laugh all you want at Howard Dean. His 50-state strategy worked. The Dems were mobilized right and left. The Repubs were not.

Nov 13, 2008 - 2:47 pm 134. kochevnik:

No, the repub vote will be split between Sara and Britney.

“Sara Palin is an example of what is to come.”

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:08 pm 135. jane:

If Republicans can only win if they become Democrat-lite, why bother?

It may be sad but perhaps it is true that people are only looking for “their portion from the public trough.” As long as they get the freebies they think they are entitled to – it doesn’t matter who pays for them. Of course when you kill the goose that lays the golden egg it won’t be that good.

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:09 pm 136. Nick:

Sorry James,

I don’t call everybody I disagree with evil. I call evil acts evil. When I commit a sin, I don’t try to convince myself that it is not a sin anymore. Just because religous conservatives won’t excuse evil and call it good, don’t slander us by saying that we call everybody we disagree with evil, OK?

Pinkytoo,

Isn’t a law that says you can’t go around and stab people telling people what to do?
All laws tell people what to do or not to do with their lives. Didn’t you have civics in school?

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:10 pm 137. crazy c:

I understand why Sarah Palin was loved by all of you “conservatives” – you identified with her ignorance!

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:12 pm 138. Nick:

That should be “don’t libel us” not “slander”. I always confuse the two. My apologies.

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:16 pm 139. fear Obama:

toritto:
So what’s in the GOP for me? A religious fanatic peeking in my bedroom?
So you are an old guy?
Born in the days of FDR?
And you think anyone under the age of 60 would even dare ‘peek’ into your bedroom?
* SICK! *
It sure wouldn’t be for religions reasons, it must be your gay agenda.

You sound like a 28 year old brat.

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:28 pm 140. toritto:

Chucky pelto: You keep running St. Sarah of the Snows.

We will love kicking the stuffing out of her.

I’m sure Jesus will show her the open door…….

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:33 pm 141. Mike:

Just a few quotes to demonstrate how liberals feel about their “core values”:

Time Editor Rick Stengel on today’s Morning Joe.: It’s the New New Deal, and it’s Barack Obama as FDR, obviously. And it’s about how he could forge a Democratic majority, a liberal majority, not unlike what FDR did.

Obama Chief of staff Rahm Emanuel on CBS: The economic crisis provides “an opportunity to finally do what Washington for years has postponed.” Here, the model is Franklin Roosevelt, who in the 1930s saw the objectives of economic recovery and greater social justice as closely linked.

Wednesday’s “Late Night with Conan O’Brien”, guest host Tom Brokaw: I don’t remember this level of excitement for a new president since 1960 when Jack Kennedy was elected President of the United States.”

A simple Google search will net you hundreds of prominent liberals and Democrats voicing similar statements as the ones above, while proudly proclaiming Obama the second coming of FDR (1933-1945) and JFK (1960), their champions of liberalism and keepers of their “core” values. Meanwhile, people like Rubin are insisting that Conservatives shed their “core” values, (Ronald Reagan- 1980) and roll themselves up in a “big tent”.

Liberals, win or loose, champion more liberalism, not less. Conservatives suffer a couple of set-backs and people like Ms Rubin are ready to jettison the core principles that define conservatism.

If the Republican party take your advice Ms Rubin, they will soon be competing for votes with Ralph Nader.

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:37 pm 142. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Is It Just Me?

Or is anyone else catching on to the idea that ‘proud elitist’ is not a natural speaker of English? E.g., “Teh Facebooks. Teh MySpaces.”

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I wonder if he is Sunni or Shi’ite.

Nov 13, 2008 - 3:37 pm 143. Spokone:

The first thing that republicans have to do to get back on track is to get rid of wack job Sarah “I can see Russia from my front porch.” McCain obviously doesn’t realize w hat a mistake he made by choosing her, another reason why McCain was so underqualified to be Prez–poor judgement! So now is the GOP going to continue to coverup for McCain by failing to recognize how much damage the dingbat from Alaska has caused the party? The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result. GOP must regroup and get rid of deadwood like Palin otherwise 2010 and 2012 will be more of what we saw in 2006 and 2008.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:06 pm 144. toritto:

fear bama: Attack the messenger shall we?

I really am an old guy. Living in Florida in a gated community on a golf course. I am a widower since 2004.

I’m old enough to know an unnecessary war when I see one and smart enough to know a neo-fascist when I see one.

I am not a “believer” (you got me there) I dont believe in fairy tales. I do have a gay niece. So what? She works, pays her taxes, obeys the law and bothers no one.
Her sex life is none of your business = or mine.

Obama 08!

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:07 pm 145. Spokone:

Core values? You mean like McCain running around with his current wife while he was married to his first wife. Going negative on Obama only because Obama turned down doing Town Hall Meetings – Oh Yeah, let’s make McCain our Prez with that kind of temperment OR Ms Sarah coming out to meet GOP officials like a diva dressed only in a towel! Or totally lying about her tv interviews, as did McCain with his incredible misjudgement on the David Letterman Show = “I have to race to the airport and rush to Washington to save the economy.” NO—McCain had to race across NYC to CBS studios to try to save his campaign which was cratering.

Is that a representation of “core values”. If yes, then you can have them!

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:12 pm 146. Spokone:

If Republicans can only win if they become Democrat-lite, why bother?

How about becoming like the Ronald Reagan republcians again? What happened to those core values?

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:15 pm 147. Luke:

“teh” is internet lingo poking fun at the common typo of the word the.

proud elitist meant it intentionally to be sure.

Does anyone else fund any humor in someone named ‘proud elitist’ lecturing conservatives for their ‘holier than thou’ morality?

lots of lulz

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:24 pm 148. Luke:

find*

Also, as a Republican, I would rather retain my values and principles than win an election by changing the core values of conservatism.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:26 pm 149. toritto:

Luke: Good.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:39 pm 150. toritto:

Smaller Government! Yadayada…..

Lets see, Ike had 8 years, Kennedy/Johnson had 8 years/Nixon/Ford had 12 years between ‘em/Carter had 4 years/St. Ronnie had 8 years/Bush I had 4 years/Clinton had 8 years and BushII had 8 years.

I count 40 years the GOP held the Presidency since Ike’s election in 1952 (I was a teener!) and 20 years of Dem rule.

Now in which years did the GOP make the government smaller?

Answer: None.

Question: How long do you think thinking Americans are going to buy that crack?

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:44 pm 151. Nick:

Pinkytoo,

Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Then I’ll pray for your immortal soul!! (HA HA HA) That’s a joke.

Your wrong, the Law defines certain acts as crimes and then lists the punishment for such acts.
Like it or not the Law tells all of us what to do.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:44 pm 152. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Luke
RE: Playing the ‘Fool’

proud elitist meant it intentionally to be sure. — Luke

Okay.

So he’s a ‘fool’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Better that than what he was foolishly presenting himself as….

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:45 pm 153. goy:

@124. toritto: from here it looks like you have marginalized yourself into a position where your life is defined by what government can give you. Your “what’s in the it for me” attitude is the very sickness that will strangle America and flush it down the toilet like every great society that’s gone before it. You have my sympathies. And my undying disdain.

@128. Pinkytoo: based on what you’ve written, it doesn’t look like you understand the core “message” of conservatism. So it probably wouldn’t be wise to hold your breath waiting for Republicans to match your criteria. The current lot aren’t interested and I would hope that any future, successful replacements will have a far more comprehensive agenda.

@132. Spindok: In reading this and other stuff you’ve written, I have to say I feel much the same. However, you haven’t read much of the conservative side of this discussion (let alone the many others about) if you’re (still) looking for someone to tell you that McCain is a genuine, small-government conservative and/or representative of what Republicans used to stand for. He’s not and he doesn’t. We did the same as you: compromised in voting for him because the alternative was unacceptable. Our choices this time were between a socialist and a marxist. We have no one to blame but ourselves for not holding the Republican lot accountable to the responsibilities they swore to honor.

@133. proud elitist: See comment to Spindok, above. If you still need to be told that the current Republican leadership is NOT conservative, than you simply haven’t been following the conversation(s).

And here’s a personal observation. Those who insist on blindly and obediently spitting in Sarah Palin’s face at every opportunity – as you’ve been trained by the entrenched media to do without thinking – you make it crystal clear why we keep re-electing the same elitist jerkweeds over and over… only to then turn around and give them 12% approval ratings, whining about why they aren’t making things better for us. You are used to doing what and voting for whom you’re told.

Those denigrating and insulting Gov. Palin with statements they would NEVER dare make to her face could only dream of understanding, let alone achieving one or two of her many accomplishments. Ever run for mayor, let alone been elected? To a city of ANY size? Ever even contemplated running for governor of a state? Let alone one the size and with the issues of Alaska? Ever had your life and your family torn apart in public because you had the audacity to stand up for what you believe in? You’re seriously kidding yourselves if you think you have even 1/10th the authority to criticize her.

Comprehending all Palin’s done in her life and what she represents to our Republic looks like just a little too much cognitive dissonance for some people, after a lifetime of being trained year after year to believe that only elite Harvard grads and Yale frat boys are allowed to govern – let alone run for President. Small-minded, willful peons, the lot.

Nov 13, 2008 - 4:49 pm 154. observer:

“Which of these ‘core conservatives values’ is obnoxious?”

• Honesty
• Small Government
• Family
• Education
• Welfare Reform
• Lower Taxes
• States Rights
• The Bill of Rights

Now let’s look at the vices:

Racism (read comment number 3 it’s an atypical Republican’s consciousness pasted onto the web)
Classism
Greed
Overspending (Neither Reagan, or Bush left a surplus)
Rights for white’s only
Self-Righteousness (I’m a christian but I’m not going to force people to be one nor am I uneducated and believe that America “was built on the bible” or “is a Christian nation” because our forefathers weren’t christians and our history of bloodshed, marginalization of the poor and etc., isn’t christian)

So you might wanna think about these associations before aligning yourself with the right. Oh and I’m not a democrat!

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:27 pm 155. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Pinkytoo & Communicating a ‘Threat’

and I might as well take out (up)Chuck while I’m at it — Pinkytoo

I don’t know about where you may live, but where I live, Pinkytoo has just communicated a threat. That is a criminal offense where I live. And should he/she/it be so foolish as to show up on my door step or confront me in any public or private situation….

…three guesses. First two don’t count.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God is alive....and airborne-ranger qualified. And so am I.]

P.S. TO: Pinkyfool….{nudge-nudge, wink-wink}….we, from that environment, play ‘rough’….and for ‘keeps’…..

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:29 pm 156. PJM’s Jennifer Rubin on the GOP’s future « The Conservative Wilderness:

[...] 14, 2008 by Steve This is getting to be a familiar refrain…for all the talk about the GOP needing to move more to [...]

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:37 pm 157. laughable:

83. Chilloutyo:

I don’t think Republicans need to be moderate at all…being well armed and ready is probably better advice.
Nov 13, 2008 – 9:39 am 84. fear Obama:

2010 will see another Democrat House Cleaning.

Democrats are in control of the House and Senate,
this is their salvation for the American people.

And you want these cabbage heads to handle our Universal Health Care?
Nov 13, 2008 – 9:42 am

When You correct and inform these morons it has been a Dem congress for only two years and Obama is the president elect. Then maybe sensible people will consider the GOP. That’s why you lost because of idiots pointing the finger holding the money bag.

And it wasn’t minorities who refinanced there homes at inflated values. Also there in no way was it enough minority defaults to send the economy in a tailspin.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:41 pm 158. canuck:

This is a typical Northeastern RINO attitude….we see the same thing from the p***ies that serve as the “moderators” at Lucianne.com that kicked off a bunch of posters yesterday for “anger”. This is the McCain P***y Syndrome that lost this last election, made even more obnoxious by the fact that the Republican crowd allowed the media whores to pick their candidate.

The Right will continue to lose elections when they allow the pc feminization of their party. It has nothing to do with the conservatism, but the faux conservatism of these wimps.

Gitmo, immigration, spending. Where were these issues?

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:46 pm 159. Chuck Pelto:

P.P.S. Who’s in charge of this outfit?

I’d like to contact their legal counsel…..

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:47 pm 160. toritto:

Goy: Conservatives have given us nothing but platitudes. We have seen 8 years of corruption, unnecessary war and shredding of the Constitution. We spy on our own citizens, suspend habeas corpus, torture our prisoners, spend trillions of money we do not have and cut the taxes of Bush cronies and corporations.

Nice going.

Who left us the mess we are in?

I worked all my life; paid my taxes and social security/medicare; broke no laws; educated my children; was married to the same woman for 40 years. I lived the family values you guys talk about.

What am I “in it for?”

…just another B. S. ideologue……

You keep running Palin – we’re going to enjoy beating the stuffing out of her.

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:50 pm 161. Chuck Pelto:

TO: observer
RE: Soooo….

So you might wanna think about these associations before aligning yourself with the right. Oh and I’m not a democrat! — observer

…back to the original question….

…WHAT is wrong with those ‘conservative values’?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I notice that no one has, yet, explained what’s wrong with them. They all do what you just did….nothing in particular…..

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:51 pm 162. Chuck Pelto:

TO: torrito
RE: The Problem Is…

You keep running Palin – we’re going to enjoy beating the stuffing out of her. — torrito

…that you haven’t. Except in your own mind. In other words, you’re delusional.

Yeah. You beat McCain, but the evidence is coming out that not even the Republicans liked that traitor. Including myself.

I voted for Palin, hoping for an early promotion.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Texas A&M alumni]

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:56 pm 163. goy:

observer, WHERE are you getting this crapola??

Racism? If anyone has been playing the race card over the past couple decades, it certainly hasn’t been conservatives or Republicans. It’s been the likes of the Sharptons, Jacksons, Rev. Wrights & Pflegers and, most of all, that guy who claimed he “doesn’t look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills.”

Classism? The Democrats RULE when it comes to fomenting class warfare. What do you think the “tax cuts for the rich” lie is all about? Know who already pays the bulk of all taxes paid in this country? The so-called “rich“, that’s who.

Greed? Tell me who’s greedier – the person who spends her life asking “what’s in it for me” and waiting for entitlements, or the one who spends her adult life building a business that employs others and contributes millions to the federal government in the form of personal income and corporate taxes?

Overspending? Clinton didn’t leave a surplus anywhere other than on paper, in absolute dollars. His average debt-to-GDP ratio was much worse than under Bush and the only reason the economy didn’t stay underwater for his entire two terms was the capital gains reduction in 1997.

Rights for whites only? Are you high? WHERE are you getting this silliness?

Self-righteousness? Uhm… have you tried to explain to a Climate Crisistian that the globe has been cooling for the last ten years? Try it. You’ll get an education on “self-righteous”.

Do get out more.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:01 pm 164. HTYR:

Actually Goy;

We can all compare ourselves to Ms Palin. I won’t be a braggart but I will simply say yes.

With that said because you perceive her life accomplishments to be a valid reason she is above criticism. Sorry she is outta her league.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:02 pm 165. toritto:

chuck Pelto: Nothing wrong with “conservative” values – except you dont live them

Honesty – Jack Abramoff (I can go further)

Small Government – it hasnt gotten any smaller in 60 years but you keep talking about it.

Family – we all have these. Is this a code word for “pro-life”? Ted Haggard? Representative Foley?

Welfare Reform – Welfare was reformed under Clinton. Is this a code word for “welfare mothers”

Lower taxes – for who? That is the question. How about we go back to the Reagan tax level? I’m for that.

Education – we’re all for that. Your point?

States Rights – Old code words for segregation. Or are you referring to abortion again?

Bill of rights – Oh yeah, we’re against that.

Enough with the drivel about “conservative” values – they belong to everyone.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:03 pm 166. toritto:

Chucky: Palin is a moron. It is you who is delusional if you think the American people will ever elect her to the Presidency.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:05 pm 167. HTYR:

Are you serious?

goy:

observer, WHERE are you getting this crapola??

I won’t say anything because if you have the guts to make a statement like that. You obviously have no brains.

THIS IS THE FACE OF THE GOP!!!!!

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:07 pm 168. goy:

- Conservatives have given us nothing but platitudes.
Your uninformed and unsupported opinion.

- We have seen 8 years of corruption,
In the entrenched media, that’s a given.

- … unnecessary war …
Leftist talking point. Not supported by objective reality.

… shredding of the Constitution.
Again, your unsupported opinion.

- We spy on our own citizens,
Perhaps you do, but you’ll have to come up with some actual evidence to demonstrate that anyone else does.

- suspend habeas corpus,
Ditto. Evidence? Didn’t think so.

- torture our prisoners,
Again. Evidence? Or are you going to claim that standing still for eight hours is “torture”.

- spend trillions of money we do not have
Like every Congress before. Yet you people just keep re-electing them. That makes it your doing as much as anyone’s.

- … cut the taxes of Bush cronies and corporations.
Perhaps you weren’t paying attention while you were busy walking back and forth to the mailbox to get your entitlement checks, but the tax cuts went pretty much across the board and cost the higher earners more, not less. The proof is here, but you’ll ignore it. Look at the trends and explain to me why higher earners have been paying MORE of the overall tax burden each year instead of less.

- Who left us the mess we are in?
You mean the mess the media has convinced you we’re in? The only REAL mess right now was created by the Democrats’ insistence on “affordable loans” other than that, lessee…

Unemployment? It was higher during Clinton’s first term than at any time in the past 8 years. On average, they’ve been the same.

Debt-to-GDP ratio? Better in almost every year, and definitely on average during Bush than during the previous 8 years.

Federal tax receipts? Spectacularly better under Bush than Clinton.

Tax burden on the public? Spectacularly better under Bush than Clinton.

Economic growth? That’s a no-brainer – consistent GDP growth in every year since 2001 – an astounding recovery from the recession (yes, REAL recession) that started in the last year of Clinton’s administration and trailed into 2001 (not to mention the crash caused by 9/11 – another parting gift from Clinton’s squandering of the peace dividend and Jamie Gorelick’s mismanagement in the intelligence community – funny how she was also intimately involved in the Fannie Mae fiasco, huh?).

Income? Personal, disposable, inflation-adjusted income grew 9% in the first six years under Bush at which point, as we all know, the Democrats became the majority in Congress, and have been driving the economy into the shitter ever since.

Are we safer? Aside from the 9/11 parting gift left to us by Clinton’s wag-the-dog foreign policy, we haven’t had a terrorist attack and we’re no longer living under the threat of terrorism financed and pursued by Saddam Hussein (as noted by the entire Democratic leadership in 2001/02 – who disagreed with you about the “unnecessary” bit). During Clinton? Lessee… the World Trade Center was bombed 1993, the Khobar Towers were bombed in 1996, our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya were bombed in 1998, the USS Cole was bombed in 2000, Saddam Hussein tried to assassinate former President Bush and committed numerous, open acts of war against U.S. forces.

Shall I go on?

- I lived the family values you guys talk about.
Bully. So did millions of others. Myself included. If Obama hands out medals for that, you can have mine.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:13 pm 169. goy:

- … if you have the guts to make a statement like that. You obviously have no brains.

It doesn’t take guts to point out race-baiters like Sharpton, Jackson, et al. Don’t like it? That’s not something I can help you with. Unfortunately calling the left on their projection of “Racism!!” is decidedly not the face of today’s GOP. They don’t have the guts.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:19 pm 170. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: toritto, Palin and Projection

Palin is a moron. — toritto

Let’s see torrito be elected governor of a state in the United States. Not only that, but have his/hers/its battalion of Patriot Missiles.

Then, I think, we can do a more equitable comparison of WHO is REALLY the ‘moron’ in this discussion.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The wise masters all say that the path to enlightenment is attained through compassion, thoughtfulness and a deep respect for all life. And it wouldn't hurt to know some kung fu so you can kick the ass of any moron who refuses to listen. -- John Roney]

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:19 pm 171. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: HYTR

Speaking about projection….

If anyone has been playing the race card over the past couple decades, it certainly hasn’t been conservatives or Republicans. — HYTR

There’s not accounting for ‘dumb’. Nor is there any known cure for it either.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[I'm not as dumb as he/she/it looks.]

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:25 pm 172. Chuck Pelto:

TO: torrito
RE: Speak….

chuck Pelto: Nothing wrong with “conservative” values – except you dont live them — torrito

…for yourself, buckie.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. -- Ronald Reagan]

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:29 pm 173. Tex Taylor:

Oh torrito,

I worked in geriatrics for a time. I’ve met your type so many times before. Arrogant, self-absorbed, thinking they were in complete control as self-made men, patting themselves on their back for their ingenuity throughout their life.

They’ll spit in the face of the faithful their entire life and mock them as you do here frequently.

But in the end, as I sat by their bed knowing science had taken it as far as it could go, many would ask me to stay or hold their hand so they wouldn’t be alone.

I saw the arrogance stop, the facade drop, and the fear become visible on even the bravest of souls. Almost invariably they would say something to me like will you pray for me, knowing I was Christian.

Cast your vote and have your say. Because I got the feeling, it’s all you got.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:30 pm 174. toritto:

Hee hee! I’m going to print off this thread – when some one asks me what’s wrong with the GOP I’m going to show them this!!

No wonder you lost! Unless the Pawlentys, Jindals, Crists etc take control of the party you have no hope.

Not to worry. If ya’all are in charge we can look forward to lefties for the rest of my life.

I haven’t seen such delusion on one page since I don’t know when.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:44 pm 175. toritto:

Tex Taylor: Lest I forget you, I’m sure if the lord god saw fit for you to be born in Saudi Arabia you would be a fine Sunni Muslim. If in India you probably would be a member of the right wing Hindu party. You might be a Catholic in Italy and a Buddhist in Tibet.

The world is not 6,000 years old. Darwin is right.

Think of the billions of years that went by before you were born; same after you’re gone.

Besides, if god is god, it already knows who is to be “saved” no? After all it is all knowing. Or do you consider yourself the “elect of god”?

Might as well worship Zeus (that was true once too) and read entrails.

“How many are your deeds,
though hidden from sight.
O sole God without equal !

You made the Earth as You desired, You alone.
With people, cattle, and all creatures.
With everything upon Earth that walks on legs,
And all that is on high and flies with its wings.

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:50 pm 176. Dave:

The Battleground poll question D3 is, once again, informative, and once again ignored.

I’ll repeat it here–

“are you–

very conservative?

Somewhat conservative?

moderate?

somewhat liberal?

Very liberal?

FIrst and second total 59%, moderate brings in 2 to 3%, and the fourth and fifth total about 37%. With small fluctuations, this question gets the same result month after month, year after year.

Far from conservative core principles being ‘obnoxious’, they are what is desperately NEEDED. And they are currently ignored, to the detriment of the Republican party. THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE country. If we just had conservative candidates, we’d never lose an election!

Republicans have not articulated these principles since 1994, in the contract with america. And even that was a failure, with only parts of it seeing any real action.

The way I see it, you don’t even have to be 100% consistent or effective at making policy from these principles.. you just have to show people that these principles are important and that you are trying your best to advance them! Reagan wasn’t brilliant, new or different. He was just clear and consistent! Government was not going to solve most of the problems of the nation, but it WOULD CAUSE problems by trying to solve other problems! There is so much COMMON SENSE to conservatism, but when it is not articulated it does not catch fire in the spirit of the voters. THey just see two guys with small differences in their approaches to the same problems, so they vote for the guy with the most charisma or the most claim on their “white guilt”.

But try, just try, using the Reagan style of clearly explaining what is the true cause of the problem, and clearly explaining the Conservative approach, and see how the electorate catches fire! THis ain’t rocket science, Jennifer.

Nobody believes you will achieve a small government, but with that principle at work, perhaps you can shrink this one just a tiny bit, and the roar from the approving crowd would be TREMENDOUS! This government grows 10-20% a YEAR. Just shrink it 1%, and you would OWN THE COUNTRY politically.

People are overtaxed. People have a right to keep what they earn. Just get a real life tax cut of 1%, that is get people paying one percent less than they do now, every year, across the board, rich, middle class and below…. and you would OWN THE COUNTRY politically in five years! IT’s a principle, a core value, it’s humanity itself! People deserve to keep what is theirs! When you earn money you OWN money! Nobody has the right to claim your earnings for themselves! Right now that is precisely the leftist argument, that your money belongs to whomever needs it the most… and that is NOT TRUE! Articulate it.

We need conservative principles, clean and clear and simple and loud, and we need CONSISTENCY in action, even if the action isn’t totally or immediately rewarding.

The groundswell would build and build until you might even seat a conservative senator in MASSACHUSETTS!

Im sick of whiny weak watery conservatives, trying to go along to get along. It is NOT THE RIGHT APPROACH.

I will wait patiently until somebody actually tries this and then I will bet every dollar I have on the outcome. )

Nov 13, 2008 - 6:57 pm 177. myth buster:

Mike Huckabee would have held his own in the young vote- this was a clear failure of the GOP to nominate the right candidate. We should reach out to young people and sell them on conservatism. We need to get the Fair Tax passed.

As for the abortion issue, we consider the fetus to be an independent person, who is protected by the 14th Amendment. I do not even recognize that abortion is legal; rather, I submit that abortion is premeditated murder, is a crime under existing law, and it is a supreme travesty of justice that the courts will not permit the law to be enforced, nor will any executive enforce it. It is long past time we start trying abortionists, convicting them, and putting them to death. That is upholding the Constitution. Next up on the list, haul out all the human and drug traffickers, try them and and put them to death. Then, we take all the gang bangers and other organized criminals, and ship them out to a forced labor camp in ANWR. Make the jails pay for their own budgets by bringing back chain gangs.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:09 pm 178. Dave:

‘Weighed down by an unpopular president’–

Bush’s unpopularity played both ways. The left hated him for the war, and the right became increasingly despairing of him ever acting like a conservative again, with Immigration ‘reform’ and the out of control spending (free drugs for seniors, anyone?) and letting himself be rolled by Dems on SO many issues…. he lost his will to win, and in the course of ‘going along’, he called his own side names.

He called me a racist. On my own TV, while I was watching.

I am in favor of my national borders being under control, in favor of discerning between those who belong and those who don’t, and acting to prevent more of those who don’t from getting here… I am in favor of sanity and soveriegnty, and my own president calls me a racist over it.

You BET he was unpopular. But not all because of Iraq.

Nov 13, 2008 - 7:09 pm 179. DaveinPhoenix:

Look, you either have Conservative values or you don’t. You either advance these ideas or play nice with those who are wrong. It’s about making America a better country, not (neccessarily) winning elections. If the so called Republicans had advanced Conservative ideas by warning the nation (even more loudly and clearly than some did) that the Barney Franks and Chris Dodds were setting the stage for the worst national financial crisis in my lifetime, we wouldn’t be Screwed ‘08 – or beyond. Had we had more real Conservatives screaming loudly back then, we wouldn’t be a minority today. What’s right is right, what’s wrong is wrong.

Nov 13, 2008 - 8:54 pm 180. The Historian:

RADICAL POLITICIANS WILL DESTROY OBAMA
The far left in Congress is on track to ruin the Obama administration:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/radical-politicians-will-destroy-obama.html

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:06 pm 181. cedarford:

Pelto is spewing a line of crap about his Goddess Palin, Commander in Chief of America’s northern air & missile defense.

Sorry Pelto, when guard take on national missions they are not under control of the Governor or the say so of the governor. They are Fed assets reporting to a chain of command that goes through DOD.

Same with activated guard and guard reserve in training here or deployed to overseas theater. Plain can visit them, say how much she cares, but thats it. She cannot reassign them, cannot issue any lawful orders to their superiors.

Now, those Alaskan Guard and Reserve elements not in Federal service – well, yes she can assign them to look for a lost kid in a forest or help clean up an oil spill if she wants. She can’t have them use Fed assets w/o permission. And any coastal stuff outside domestic law enforcement and anything having to do with foreign vessels is Coast Guard, also completely outside Palin’s authority.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:11 pm 182. cedarford:

Rubin is right, and anyone thinking that the key to victory is the Base turnout in a bastion of states with “pure” adherence to Base religious dogma and Southern-fried values is badly mislead.

We are talking about a Republican Party shrunk to the Bible Belt and a smattering of small Electoral Colege vote and House vote States in the West and Midwest now trending Democratic.

That means a “core conservative Base” of 185 Electoral votes, 30 Senate seats, and around 160 solid Base or Fundie-Land House Districts.
Look backwards to the good ‘ol 1950s, failed Reaganomics theory, and continue the campaign of intolerance of RINOs, Mormons, hispanic and other Catholics, and continue to abandon the job and health care concerns of the working and middle class???
Well, yes, with the Goddess Palin “exciting” the Base, they might very well get 180 or so Electoral College votes in States by huge margins. They could have many of the 30 Senate seats secured by evangelical, RTL ecstasy. Get the Southern House seats by big pluralities of the Terri Schiavo is alive!! crowds. (but not the traitorous New South seats or big city Congressional Districts in Red States)

All that means is the Base can turn out all it wants in their newly shrunk area and win huge pluralities in it – but never have control of the Presidency or the two chambers of Congress or nominating Appelate judges including SCOTUS again.

Not unless they change their tired old “what would Saint Reagan do??” , more wars for Israel!,Fundie values, cast out the unbelievers…ACT..and behave like adults again and work to change policy and strategy to get states like Virginia, Ohio, Florida, Colorado, and yes, RINO-States back.

Otherwise, enjoy being pure and out of power…knowing you sure told off those evolutionists, Mormons, college educated people Joe the Plumber could out-bowl, and all the scummy pro-choice moderates, Papist hispanics, and younger women.

Nov 13, 2008 - 9:31 pm 183. Someone75:

TO: Chuck Pelto
RE: Your lack of cogency

“Which of these ‘core conservatives values’ IS obnoxious?”

I may be a pre-adolescent, as you once called me, but at least I can conjugate my verbs!

Now onto the real business:

Honesty is not a conservative value. This argument implies that honesty is NOT a liberal value. That is A) impossible for you to prove and B) remarkably stupid.

Family is not a conservative value. Liberals have families too. Look at Obama. He has a great family life. Look at McCain who divorced his disfigured wife to marry rich.

Do you get where I’m going with this?

Lets move on. You listed a few “conservative” values, but you failed to list a lot of other conservative interests:

-An inability to understand the environment
-Rampant corruption
-Pandering to Christians (what did Bush ever do for Christians like me?)
-Lying (As in Bush lying to us about Iraq)
-Big Business
-Killing the middle class

Those are just a few core conservative values that I (and the majority of the country, judging by Obama’s victory) do not agree with. Please feel free to reply with insults, and when you do, I hope you include one of your useful little tags.

Regards,

Someone(75)
[Philistine, n. - A person who is hostile to intellectual pursuits (amongst other things)]

Nov 13, 2008 - 11:03 pm 184. crazy c:

Re: 177 – myth buster – Maybe the republicans should run next time on that platform….can you spell P-E-R-M-A-N-E-N-T M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y. Man the Dems would love this forum. They pray (to their athiest relativist diety of their choice) everyday that you whack jobs keep up the cry to be “more conservative”. You guys are the dems wet dream….the ironic thing is – you don’t even understand that!

Nov 14, 2008 - 6:48 am 185. Chuck Pelto:

TO: cedarford
RE: Godless Projections

Pelto is spewing a line of crap about his Goddess Palin, Commander in Chief of America’s northern air & missile defense. — cedarford

Show me where Palin is “Godless”. Otherwise, you’re projecting….which is sort of what I expected of you.

Sorry Pelto, when guard take on national missions they are not under control of the Governor or the say so of the governor. They are Fed assets reporting to a chain of command that goes through DOD. — cedarford

Oh? They’re NOT part of the Alaskan National Guard? Show me.

By the way, after working this area of Army Reserve Components for ten years and their being called to active duty, I’m very much aware of their responsibilities. But just because they are reporting to Department of the Army…not DOD…doesn’t mean they are not Guardsmen.

You don’t like that? Tough noogies.

In the meantime SHE, this ‘Godless’ Governor Palin is STILL more qualified as a commander-in-chief of the military than the Governator or Senator Obama.

So….

….what’s your next stupid point?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]

Nov 14, 2008 - 7:31 am 186. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Someone75
RE: Pre-Ad

I may be a pre-adolescent, as you once called me, but at least I can conjugate my verbs! — Someone75

Whatever your age, your mentality is that of a pre-ad.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You know you've hit the target because of the secondary explosions.]

Nov 14, 2008 - 7:32 am 187. Tex Taylor:

torrito,

For such a rousing success as you continue to boast, reading comprehension doesn’t appear your strong suit. I’m not sure where the new earth stuff came from, but it’s humorous and typical from an old patronizing fool like you. Like I said, the facade will soon drop.

So let me get this straight from the resident PJM genius named torrito.

I really am an old guy. Living in Florida in a gated community on a golf course. I am a widower since 2004.

So some old, half-lucid blowhard and religious bigot, hiding behind a gated community wall to be with his own equally worthless golfin’ buddies, in the most homogeneous of associations, is going to preach to all of us about the Republican’s party “lack of a big tent?”

Well, that’s either the best parody I’ve heard in quite some time, or the biggest hypocrisy. Anybody that would listen to a fool like you does belong with their own. Enjoy it while it lasts Tiger…

Nov 14, 2008 - 8:07 am 188. cedarford:

Pelto –
Please look up the difference between Godless and Goddess. You might be surprised.

Your Goddess Palin is not in the chain of command for any national security mission of the Guard & Reserves. If they are not Federalized, she may use them for various domestic jobs and civil disorder things. But once Guard are federalized and assigned to military missions, she has no involvment or authority over them. Nor can she reassign, say ANG personnel, to clean up a salmon dieoff without Federal permission to return those assets to Alaskan executive authority.

“Commander in Chief” is an honorific. As top executive she can use Guard for non-military missions, if they are free of Federal duties. That’s it.

Nov 14, 2008 - 9:27 am 189. Agoraphobic Plumber:

“Honesty is not a conservative value. This argument implies that honesty is NOT a liberal value. That is A) impossible for you to prove and B) remarkably stupid.”

Honesty IS a conservative value. Whether or not it is a liberal value is, I guess, up to liberals, but the fact that it is a conservative value implies nothing. Nice straw man, though.

The problem isn’t with conservative values, for the most part (though I’d think we could pick our battles better than to waste any political capital fighting against stem cell research while abortions of all kinds are happening all over the place). It’s the fact that elected Republicans got elected on the strength of them and then turned away.

Conservatives (as opposed to Republicans) don’t LIKE that kind of two-faced crap. If you say you’re going to vote for smaller government and balanced budgets, and then vote for huge deficit spending and a brand new prescription drug benefit, then for the non-GOP conservative you’ve just removed any reason to vote for you over the Democrat. Might as well throw a dart at the ballot or just stay home until an appealing candidate comes along.

For the record, I held my nose and voted for McCain, but it was a near thing, and I mostly voted because Obama is SO far out in left field that he really could change this country permanently in a direction that we will all regret. And now it looks like he’ll have the chance. Ah, well, I did my part to prevent it.

Nov 14, 2008 - 9:40 am 190. Pinkytoo:

TO: Chuck[E.Cheese]
RE: TO: cedarford
RE: Godless Projections

“Pelto is spewing a line of crap about his Goddess Palin, Commander in Chief of America’s northern air & missile defense. — cedarford

Show me where Palin is ‘Godless’. Otherwise, you’re projecting….which is sort of what I expected of you.”

Um…it says GODDESS, not “Godless”

Signed,
Did Not Fail Reading in 2nd Grade

Nov 14, 2008 - 9:42 am 191. Chuck Pelto:

TO: cedarford
RE: Goddess

My apologies. I had not had my coffee yet.

RE: National Guard

“Commander in Chief” is an honorific. As top executive she can use Guard for non-military missions, if they are free of Federal duties. That’s it. — cedarford

Wrong. On BOTH parts.

Don’t know about the state constitution where YOU live, but here, ‘commander-in-chief’ is NOT an ‘honorific’. It’s written into the state constitution that way.

And as for ‘missions’. Ever hear of the Colorado Coalfields War? The governor turned loose the Colorado National Guard to use their full military force to suppress a coal miners rebellion. The revolt became so destructive that President Wilson had to send in federal forces to separate the national guard from the rebellious coal miners. Indeed, there is cause to believe that the coal miners were winning at the time of the federal intervention.

Oddly enough. No one was actually punished for crimes, except for one young lieutenant who was given a wrist-slap by a military courts martial.

Getting a clue here?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]

Nov 14, 2008 - 9:50 am 192. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. I have not ‘Goddess’. I have only Christ…..

Nov 14, 2008 - 9:53 am 193. kevin c:

JENNIFER- I DONT KNOW WHOS COFFEE YOUVE BEEN DRINKIING LATELY, BUT EXIT POLLS SHOWED 70% OF OBAMA VOTERS THOUGHT OBAMA WAS A TAX CUTTER. THOISE SAME VOTERS THOUGHT OBAMA WAS AGAINST GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE. JENIFER,WAKE UP,SMELL THE COFFEE AND QUIT DRINKING THE TOXIC OBAMICOMMIE POISON BEING PASSED TO YOU BY THE LIKES OF DAVID BROOKS,ETC. AND OH YES,JOHN MCSHAME,PICKED BY “INDEPENDENTS” IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, SOUTH CAROLINA,FLORIDA. THE SAME FOLKS WHO VOTED AGAINST HIM IN NOVEMBER. CLOSE THOSE PRIMARIES AND SEE IF MCSHAME WOULD HAVE WON. MY MONEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ON ROMNEY OR GUILIANI.

Nov 14, 2008 - 11:09 am 194. kevin c:

I CAN ONLY NAME TWO CONSERVATIVE GOP GOVERNORAS OFF MY HEAD(JINDAL,PALIN) CRIST? HES A JOKE ,A PHONY RINO. PAWLENTY? THE SAME GUY LETTING AL FRASNKEN STEIN STEAL THE ELECTION,AIDED AND ABETTED BY MINNESOTAS ACORN-CONNECTED SEC/STATE. ANOTHER PHONY. RICK PERRY-SUPPORTER OF OPEN BORDERS AND A “REACH-OUT” RINO? SENATORS-SNOWE(PHONY RINO) COLLINS(PHONY RINO) VOINOVICH(PHONY RINO) MCSHAME(RINO) LINDSAY GRAMNASTY(RINO)MEL MARTINEZ(RINO). NO WONDER THE GOP CANT WIN-A THIRD OF THEM ARE RINOS.

Nov 14, 2008 - 11:27 am 195. Sonny:

Somebody needs to take a look at the number of “Red” counties in America before throwing in the towel on Conservative principles.

The primary places the “Blues” get their votes are urban areas along the East and West Coast. In other words, the biggest land owners are in the Red States where the “bread basket” world is located.

Don’t let the Blues bambozzle you and try to make you think what the Founding Fathers provided for us is no longer necessary. They were extremely wise men and have given us their brillance for an enduring Republic. Let’s defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights as the signers of the Declaration of Independence did: with their lives, fortunes and honor.

Nov 14, 2008 - 1:28 pm 196. Pinkytoo:

HEY KEVIN TAKE OFF THE CAPS LOCK AND TRY SPELL CHECK INSTEAD

Nov 14, 2008 - 1:29 pm 197. kochevnik:

Someone75,

Here are some definitions:

liberal = open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc. – favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs. – favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties. – free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.

conservative = disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change – a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc. – dull – causing boredom; tedious; uninteresting – not bright, intense, or clear – mentally slow; lacking brightness of mind; somewhat stupid; obtuse. – enthusiast, zealot, bigot, hothead, militant – excessive or overweening devotion to a cause or belief

Nov 14, 2008 - 2:45 pm 198. Aureliano:

conservative = disposed to preserve existing conditions …

Like keeping abortion legal?

… institutions, etc.

Like not making changes to our public school system because the liberal teachers’ unions don’t want things to change?

… or to restore traditional ones …

Like reinstituting a grossly failed system of lifetime welfare?

… and to limit change …

Like opposing the removal of brutal dictators from the Middle East.

dull – causing boredom; tedious; uninteresting …

You just described every baby boomer lesbian feminist in the nation ….

… not bright, intense, or clear …

You just described yourself (and your typical homeless person).

… mentally slow; lacking brightness of mind; somewhat stupid …

Like those inner city types who vote heavily Democratic …?

obtuse. – enthusiast, zealot …

Like your average global warming environmental activist?

… bigot …

Like the anti-Christian, anti-religious bigots on CA’s “No on Prop 8″ campaign (or your typical university faculty meeting)?

… hothead …

Like more Democrats than I can name, from Ted Kennedy to Keith Olbermann to that SF radio jock who called for the death of Joe the Plumber.

militant – excessive or overweening devotion to a cause or belief …

Like Bill Ayers and Reverend Jeremiah Wright?

Nov 14, 2008 - 3:07 pm 199. nick:

its a dead idealogy
just like communisms
facsism
etc

will never come back

Nov 14, 2008 - 4:16 pm 200. Santa Fean:

Yes. As long as the far right controls the once great Republican party they will only rule over Joe Sixpack and his illiterate friends. BillO/Sean/Rush all fuel fear and divisiveness and the uninformed lap it up. How much more can the Republican party be? Will they invite Blacks, Hispanics, women, young voters, gays and the moderates in? No, and you have seen the results! I hope they will change but I don’t see the Republican party with enough guts to do the right thing. They will continue to listen to the far right and wonder what happened. Core values? Guns, Gays, and War? Plays well in fewer and fewer states. Clearly.

Nov 14, 2008 - 4:28 pm 201. RAK:

Where were these “true” conservatives during the Bush administration, which included a Republican congress in six out of the eight years. I did not hear an outcry about the lack of conservatism until Republicans started losing, in fact Bush’s election victories were touted as proof of the success of conservatism. Somehow the out of control spending, attacks on basic rights, the interventionist foreign policy based upon lies, the corruption, the torture were not worthy of conservative challenge-as long as they maintained power. Now they argue “well that was not really conservatism”. It reminds me of apologists for communism, who argued if only the “communist” countries would have practiced pure communism then it would have worked well. You can’t have it both ways. You were given ample opportunity to practice what you preach and to govern well and you failed miserably on both counts.

Nov 14, 2008 - 4:44 pm 202. stilletto:

Yes.

Nov 14, 2008 - 4:53 pm 203. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: kochevnik’s Definitions @ Item #197

Isn’t it ironic that the so-called ‘liberals’ of today are nothing of the sort described in the definition proffered.

Indeed, these so-called liberals are venal, spiteful and filled with hatred for anyone who disagrees with them. You can witness that by the actions of their primary speakers at Daily Kos and so many others. Not to forget the liars in the so-called ‘mainstream’ media.

Today, the real liberals, the ones who live by a standard of true tolerance based on law and long-standing beliefs are the people referred to as ‘conservative’.

Let the liberals twist the language. They do it all the time, anyway. All we need to do is recognize them for the liars they are and point it out as dispassionately as is reasonable.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A tree is known by its fruit. -- Some Wag, around 2000 years ago.]

Nov 14, 2008 - 5:41 pm 204. the observer:

To Goy:

“observer, WHERE are you getting this crapola??

I think you’re the one who doesn’t get out enough. I concede that the Sharptons and Jacksons have issues. But far from the issues that the Republican party has. First off I’m talking more so the voters. Who by the way tend to live where? Rural, small and isolated places. Where is usually people who look and think just like them. It’s no coincedence that the most racist, xenophobic and ignorant people in the U.S. vote for the Republican Party consistently. U go to message boards, (like this one) and you see racist and classist comments all the time from Repubs. My boss/friend just resigned from being a Republican because he realized that they tend to be racist and greedy. Don’t get me wrong. I agree with fiscal responsibility and I’m not for welfare but see that’s just a code word. Your own racism is veiled in your comment. Your miserable and desperate attempt to label demos as racist are horrible. What Reverend Wright said was inappropriate but true. America isn’t perfect. It hurt to hear but it’s true. But I don’t see you renoucing the Limbaughs or O’Reillys who’ve said far worse. That’s the problem with repubs your blind devotion to the old days of this country (which by the way consist of slavery, oppression, xenophobia and unquestioned alliance) keeps you from admitting America’s own folly. I’m proud to be an american but I’m not always proud of what america has done. People like you long for the past to support your desires but want to forget the past when it doesn’t make you feel good. Oh you hate to talk about slavery but you’ll definitely talk about welfare. You hate to talk about Jim Crow but you’ll talk about getting the illegals out of here. Sorry but anyone with a brain knows the GOP’S voters are either one of two things sometimes three. Racist ignorants or Fiscal conservatives sometimes both if you wanna add that one. Sorry but that’s the face of the GOP. Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity say some of the most racist crap yet you or ppl in your party don’t feel bad about it. THAT’S YOUR PARTY RIGHT NOW ITS ALL OVER THE NEWS IT’S WHY PPL LEFT YOUR PARTY THIS YEAR. ITS HAVING AN IDENTITY CRISIS!!!! Funny thing is Sarah Palin called the people in these small towns and rural areas the most pro-American people, but its telling because now since Obama won, these are the same places where hate crimes have skyrocketed. LOL…i think you need to step outside and try to get over your confirmation biases and see the truth about the type of people you align yourself with. Not saying you’re racist or any of those things nor do I think every Republican is. But think about it what states or areas usually vote Republican? Where do you find the most hate crimes, racially motivated incidents? Who tends to be less compassionate with people that aren’t WASP’s? I have a white friend from Wisconsin I was talking to at our class reunion. She said she lived in Dallas but had to move back because she said the whites down there are overwhelmingly racist. (we grew up in a very diverse area outside Milwaukee). That’s telling. Just think about it. Sure demo’s have there problems too (I’m not a demo as I stated before) every party will have their problems. But there’s no way in hell I’m aligning myself with the Repubs anytime soon. Sorry!

Nov 14, 2008 - 7:24 pm 205. Cliff:

This year I voted for the Constitition Party because their platform seemed to best represent my ideas of what government should be, limited central federal government and mostly defined by the various States that is not in the Constitution. Unfortunately, the candidate ended up throwing a fit when he only got somewhere around 150,000 votes and said something to the effect that all Christians should tear up their Bibles, because real Christians wouldn’t have voted for McSame and NoBama. As a Christian, I voted for the party, not him, but, it made me realize why nobody really votes for the 3rd parties, their candidates are all wack jobs.

If the Republicans would go back to being the party of Lincoln and Reagan and not give us Democrat-lite candidates, I wouldn’t have a problem like holding my nose and voting for the “lesser of two evils.” I’m a social conservative, but one of those conservatives who think Big Business needs to be regulated, not a free-for-all like we’ve had. However, I don’t not want a state-owned Auto industry, what will we get from it, Yugos? Give me a national sales tax instead of an income tax, because that’s fairer and rich folks like Buffett, Gates, and Pickens won’t subvert the system and send their money to Barbados or Switzerland.

As for what people do, like same sex marriage, abortion, or what have you, that is between you and God. I think the government should stay out of it and the only thing you’ll hear from me is that I think its a sin and I’ll pray for you, but other than, do whatever the heck you want as long as I don’t have to pay for it with my tax dollars.

Maybe it’s best we stay a regional party for a while, let the people see what they voted into office for a President. We could come riding to the rescue, unless of course the Obama Civil Defense Force calls us unpatriotic and throws in the Gulag. Heck, maybe some of us should bring the Whig/Anti-Federalist party back….

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:34 am 206. goy:

observer: look up the term “paragraph”.

If you really have such a deeply held conviction not to align yourself with the Republican Party “anytime soon”, well, let’s just say that based on your hysterical, fact-challenged and wholly unsupported little tantrum, I doubt the Party will miss your support much.

None of what you posted bears any resemblance to reality. You’ve simply rattled off a series of unsupported (and unsupportable) sweeping generalizations based on nothing more than caricatures and stereotypes you’ve heard or read about somewhere. The only thing you left out was the bit about how rural Republicans all sleep with their sisters. Don’t feel alone – I actually know a person who believes this.

- I concede that the Sharptons and Jacksons have issues.
Obama too, as his “typical white person” grandmother might have explained. And his wife as well, who by her own admission could find nothing in all of America’s history to be proud of – not Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, not the thousands of soldiers who died fighting to end slavery, not the Thirteenth Amendment, not the Fifteenth Amendment, not the American lives lost in liberating Europe from the Nazis… nothing – until her African-American husband was nominated for President.

But let’s not stop there. We have Barney Frank retreating to knee-jerk accusations of racism to defend his incompetence in the mortgage crisis scam.

We saw the same back in 2004 when OFHEO and Republicans on the GSE oversight committee – doing the job they were assigned to do – were publicly and metaphorically lynched and labeled “racists” for having the audacity to call Franklin Raines on the carpet for his idiotic policies, which were based on the financially suicidal notion that home-mortgage-backed securities were, quote, “riskless“. Democrats deemed it “racist” to point out that “affordable” mortgages and “innovative” 100% loans (!) posed a potentially lethal risk to the credit market. Of course everyone now knows who was right and who was playing the race card.

The list goes on and on.

Look at the action that had to be taken at the U. of Del. last year, where a program aimed at “re-educating” incoming students declared that “[a] racist is one who is both privileged and socialized on the basis of race by a white supremacist (racist) system. The term applies to all white people (i.e., people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality.” The irony here – claiming someone is automatically racist simply because they’re “of European descent” (i.e., white) – is so thick one can cut it with a dull knife, but the race-obsessed psychotics who pushed this trash simply can’t see it.

Racism in America has ALWAYS been the domain of the modern Democratic Party – since before the Civil War. Byrd? Democrat and former KKK. George Wallace? Democrat. Where do you think the segregationist “Dixiecrats” came from and who were its original members? Democrats.

Finally, it has obviously eluded you, but groupthink is at least as prevalent among those living in densely-packed urban areas, if not more.

Nov 15, 2008 - 12:58 pm 207. the observer:

Clif,

I’ll at least agree with you on what you said about what people do. “that is between you and God” a lot of christians at my church just couldn’t grasp there minds around me feeling this way. But when you say social-conservative can you elaborate on what that means to you?

Nov 15, 2008 - 2:12 pm 208. David W. Lincoln:

As long as there is only room for politics in the political arena, the United States (and every
other country which accepts that canard) will repeat the past.

I would conclude that those who have room for more than the authority attributable to people – these are the broad minded folk.

After all, the definitions of leadership by Kissinger and Randal are dependant on the activity of people – and I refer to something else.

Nov 16, 2008 - 2:15 pm 209. patruped:bun biped:rău | Sfaturi pentru Republicani:

[...] au predat Democratilor majoritatea in Congres. Jennifer Rubin prescrie reteta insanatosirii in Are Republicans Doomed to Minority ‘Dixiecrat’ Status? Comentatorii conservatori nu sint de acord cu sfaturile lui [...]

Nov 16, 2008 - 3:05 pm 210. EDW:

Introspection is always in order, and especially after defeats, but I think that the GOP’s problem has more to do with personnel than principles. George Bush is an honorable and decent man, and as such was woefully unqualified to be president of the United States. He did some very good things as president, but he also became the GOP’s greatest liability. But guess what, in a little over two months he’ll be back in Crawford. I think we do need to consider the problems with message, and more importantly, image as it relates to social conservatives, but lets also remember that our greatest liability is gone, and our second greatest, the media, is in deep trouble.

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:56 am 211. nick:

you had 2 GOP governors and 1 GOP senator supporting Obama, you had 1 DEM Jew senator supporting Mccain and that was just due to israel!

that is why the GOP will arise from ashes.

Nov 17, 2008 - 12:16 pm 212. nick:

oops – will NOT rise from ashes

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:41 pm 213. nlcatter:

1. Expand affi action to cover people of low income
good idea

2. Reform the immmigration laws so as to allow more
bad idea

quotas are NOT too low

3. good idea

4. OBE

5. wont ever FLY

Nov 18, 2008 - 11:07 am 214. Pajamas Media » Are Republicans Doomed to Minority ‘Dixiecrat’ Status?:

[...] Pajamas Media » Are Republicans Doomed to Minority ‘Dixiecrat’ Status? Presently, the Democratic Party has superb leadership. The problem, if history is any indication, is that they’re leading the country toward a cliff. It wasn’t always this way. Not that long ago we had Democratic and Republican Parties … [...]

Nov 20, 2008 - 5:47 pm 215. CSM--Occupied Northern VA:

To Lou Dyer Jones:

“Republicans do fine when they actually behave as Republicans”

You mean by inciting hatred and class warfare?

***********
As Chuckles has observed that really is projection! My, how quick we are to insult and attack. “Me thinks the liberal doth froth too much.”

Republicans do not incite hatred (condemnation of Socialist Tools yes, but not hatred). I for one hate no one. I’m deeply disappointed by 52% of the electorate, but as the recent Zogby poll of Obama voters shows they were ignorant, mislead and misinformed. We can rightly attribute that to failed government schools and unionized teachers and the Democrat-Media Complex (DNC B.S!)
As for class warfare, who are the snake oil sales men trying to revoke ALL the 2003 tax cuts, by claiming they solely benefit the rich–child exemption, Capital Gains, they all go up (for everyone).

You are obviously deranged by your hatred for Bush (who most of us on the right are pretty tired of too). You have simply taken your hate to a new and highly dysfunctional level. Let’s just see how happy you are with your patriotic share of increased taxes in the coming year—someone’s gotta pay for nationalized medical malpractice and it wont be Fedzilla or the medical industry. Who? Working people like me for one—and I resent it and the naïve tools who swallowed O’Bummer’s spew. Deceit Won.

America, Yes We Did—–OH CRAP! BOHICA!

Nov 21, 2008 - 1:27 pm 216. patruped:bun biped:rău | Sfaturi pentru Republicani:

[...] predat Democraţilor majoritatea în Congres. Jennifer Rubin prescrie reţeta însănătoşirii în Are Republicans Doomed to Minority Dixiecrat Status? Comentatorii conservatori nu sînt de acord cu sfaturile lui [...]

Nov 24, 2008 - 9:06 pm

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