Art World (Finally) Fights Back Against Anti-Semitism
Some in the creative community have had enough of anti-Jewish plays and anti-Israeli boycotts.
This takes us to the astonishing events in Scotland in late May, where the left-wing British filmmaker and Free Palestine activist Ken Loach has successfully bullied the legendary Edinburgh International Film Festival into giving back a £300 ($500) grant from the Israeli embassy to bring over Tali Shalom Ezer, whose film Surrogate, about sexual ambiguity, was being screened at the Edinburgh film event. Loach, whose hatred of Israel is legendary, has brow-beaten every person whose attention he can muster to boycott the festival.
As the Daily Telegraph reports,
In 2007 he even signed an open letter from the pro-Palestinian group “Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism” which called for the San Francisco International LGBT Film Festival to boycott political and cultural institutions from the one country in the Middle East where homosexuality isn’t a crime. Indeed, gays can even serve in the Israeli military, which puts even us pinko Europeans to shame.
As I write this article things seem to be moving in the direction of “hoist by his own petard” (this is a European euphemism that means he has cut his own throat), because luminaries of the film industry have been emerging to repudiate Loach and to defend the Israeli filmmaker. Jeremy Isaacs, who produced the acclaimed World at War series, is outraged.
Loach and his friends at the Scottish Palestine Solidarity campaign are saying they will picket the entire festival. “Massacres and state terrorism in Gaza make this money unacceptable,” he says. According to the Jerusalem Post Loach asserted in March that the rise in European anti-Semitism was “understandable” and that Israel “would have to pay for” Operation Cast Lead.
The ultimate irony is that the filmmaker herself is in the Israeli peace camp! She issued a press statement in late May: “Generalizing all citizens of Israel as warmongers and racists is racism and outrageous, and as members of the peace camp we are personally hurt by it.”
As this article goes to press she says she will travel to the United Kingdom despite threats from Loach and his mob. This press statement was issued by the festival organizers on May 22, 2009. From Iain Smith, EIFF chair:
On behalf of the Edinburgh International Film Festival, I apologize sincerely for the distress many people have felt at changes in the arrangements for bringing the producer and director of the film Surrogate to the Festival. Clearly we didn’t appreciate enough that our Festival cannot keep itself entirely detached from very serious geopolitical issues and I am instituting a review of our procedures to ensure that there can be no repeat incident. Nevertheless, this experience has strengthened our belief in the need for film to bring people together and I hope very much that many will want to attend this year’s Festival where filmmakers from 33 countries and diverse backgrounds and beliefs will be screening their films.
The damage has been done and I fear there will still be unpleasantness for the tiny Israeli contingent when they get to the festival. I stopped going to the Edinburgh Festival in 2006 because I detected a sea change in the way people treated me. I have always loved the Scots but this time everywhere I went my American accent generated hostility. There was a host of anti-American material on at that year’s festival. (Anti-Americanism goes hand in hand with anti-Zionism. OK, call me paranoid. ) An irate and near-violent Edinburgh taxi driver who collected an elderly Holocaust refugee and me from a rest home so sublimely hated us! He fumed about having to collect us and refused to assist her out of the cab, swearing and spitting as I struggled to help her out onto the rainy pavement. Another driver set off at Formula One speed before I had settled in my seat. When he got me to my destination he hit me with a stream of invective. My American accent? Do I look Jewish? Maybe.
I wonder if both drivers will be taking some time off from lucrative jobs to join the Ken Loach brigade this summer. I also wonder if the loathsome Loachers will call for boycotting Zimbabwe, Sudan, Sri Lanka, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sierra Leone, China, Pakistan, Venezuela, and Cuba.
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Carol Gould is the Philadelphia-born author of Don’t Tread on Me: Anti-Americanism Abroad, Spitfire Girls, and A Room at Camp Pickett, a play about her mother’s experiences as a WAC in World War II; she has just completed films about black GIs and GI babies. Carol has been a panelist on BBC's Any Questions?, hosted by Jonathan Dimbleby, and is a commentator on Sky News, Press TV, the BBC World Service, and Five Live.
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91 Comments
1. Snorri Godhi:“hoist by his own petard” (this is a European euphemism that means he has cut his own throat)
Sorry to focus on a side issue, but does Carol Gould really need to remind us that she can’t tell the difference between Britain and Europe?
May 27, 2009 - 1:43 am 2. Blue Canary:Granted it is sometimes difficult to separate propaganda from fact. For instance, 313 unarmed children were gratuitously killed in Gaza by the IDF a few weeks ago. That is fact agreed by the international agencies. The Israeli propaganda machine merely confirms that there was some collateral civilian damage and any children killed were being used as ‘human shields’ and, therefore, no war crime was committed. And that’s what happens in war. Although the British or Americans have, to my knowledge, never deliberately targeted children, in any conflict.
What you believe depends on your mindset, not on reality.
May 27, 2009 - 2:44 am 3. Tom Perkins:Why do you take that number for granted, and why do you believe Israel has deliberately targeted children (which you do by implication by juxtaposing putative American and British behavior).
Additionally, if one of the 313 were male and say 15, why do you assume they were innocents as opposed to fighters?
I say male, because from what I have seen, Palestinians think their daughters can be suicide bombers but not soldiers.
Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
May 27, 2009 - 3:14 am 4. Noah Guttman:Blue Canary/Anonymous:
My response to you : read the Geneva Conventions – then do some research and you find a long and proven history of Arabs using their own children as human shields. There is no evidence that anyone other than the arabs have ever deliberately target children.
May 27, 2009 - 3:36 am 5. RAH:Gaza has rained bombs on Israel and Isreal IDF has been noted to calling the homes that will be taegeted. The Palestinians are notorious for using children as hostage so they can get killed in order to libel Isreal.
So if 313 children died and considering the slander and libel that Europe and French media has committed against Israel, I wouldn’t beleive that is true without better reporting.
If people hold their children when they know the liklihood they will get killed then the Palestinian are the ones rsponsible for the childrens deaths.
May 27, 2009 - 4:04 am 6. Caestal:“The Israeli propaganda machine merely confirms that there was some collateral civilian damage and any children killed were being used as ‘human shields’ and, therefore, no war crime was committed.” So are you saying we should take the pure truth spouted by the “Palestinians” over anything the Israelis say? Somehow, when I look at past performance, that seems a bit counter-intuitive. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t fling words like “propoganda” around…
May 27, 2009 - 4:07 am 7. Stephen Rittenberg:Jew hatred is eternal. The latest form is the Western leftist moralist who laments the deaths of 313 Arab children, condemned to death by their own barbaric, Jew hating culture–and then blames the Jews, rather than the death cultists who deploy children as bombs and shields.
May 27, 2009 - 5:36 am 8. Fred2:Over the 22 days of the Gaza War, at most 1500 Gazans died. This amounts to 2 or 3 people an hour. If the Israelis had just wanted to kill civilians, the number would be much larger.
Clearly the Israeli military was aiming very carefully at combatants and other very specific targets.
May 27, 2009 - 5:36 am 9. David Levavi:1. Snorri Godhi:
“…does Carol Gould really need to remind us that she can’t tell the difference between Britain and Europe?”
I’m an American, Snorri. There was a time when I differentiated between Britian and Europe. No longer. The “special relationship” is no more. Donald Rumsfeld, the greatest secretary of defense in my lifetime, refers to Europe as “Old Europe.” Britian is part and parcel of that “Old Europe.”
Britian is former colonialist power drowning in the backwash of its collapsed empire. The poor and primitive backwaters of the world it once exploited have flowed back and today, Britian itself is a backwater.
America must turn its back on old Europe. Most American citizens no longer hail from that exhausted continent and its outerlying islands.
Old Anglophiles in the State Department and the intelligence services need to be rooted out, retired and marched across the Canadian border to join their treasonous Tory ancestors.British government owned BBC should be barred from american broadcast markets and its official British propaganda banned for its pernicious foreign influence.
America is bound by two oceans. The Atlantic was our past. Our future is the Pacific.
2. Blue Canary:
“…the British or Americans have, to my knowledge, never deliberately targeted children, in any conflict…”
You’re suffering from selective memory birdbrain. German civilians, including tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of children, were bombed night and day in thousand bomber raids during WWII.British bombers rained down destruction on German cities by day, Americans did worse damage by night. The stated purpose was “to break the spirit of the German people.”
Barack Obama has toned down relations with Britian and that’s healthy. Winston Churchill was a world colossus and a great champion of democracy. I was sorry to see his bust removed from the Oval Office and returned to Britian. No doubt our Kenyan-American president has read the long secret and only recently revealed and published record of the insidious and brutally horrific campaign by Britian against Jomo Kenyetta and the Mau Mau.
May 27, 2009 - 6:16 am 10. Snorri Godhi:David Levavi: contrary to you, I differentiate between Britain and Europe … to Britain’s disadvantage. Not that I am too fond of Western Europe, but Britain is getting much worse. Britain has been good in foreign policy, and since about 1977 it has got some things right about the economy (and other things tragically wrong), but that does not compensate for the English, and now British, conviction that making money is vulgar. That leads to hatred of capitalism, and from there to anti-American and anti-Zionist, if not outright antisemitic, attitudes.
By contrast, it is difficult to argue that continental Europe has become more anti-capitalist over the last century: I’d actually say that it has moved in the right direction, in fits and starts. Recent elections in Europe leave me more hopeful than the last US election.
BTW is your misspelling of ‘Britain’ intentional?
May 27, 2009 - 7:11 am 11. Ivanna Tinkle:Poor poor dear Blue Canery. You’re a sorry victim of your own mindset as well as a willing tool for the anti-Semites who just love to point fingers at Israel for everything. Naturally I’d love to see some “accepted” proof of your insane claim that the IDF killed 313 children. As to your claim that the U.S. never deliberately targeted children I was wondering what you would describe the fire bombing of Japanese cities during WWII. These Japanese cities were not citadels of blood thirsty Japanese soldiers but rather the meager homes of thousands of Japanese men, women and …yep I’ll say it…CHILDREN…thousands of whom were killed in the horrific firestorms that were created by the use of incendiary devices by the U.S.A.A.F. Perhaps you should keep yer pie hole closed until you learn your history.
May 27, 2009 - 8:37 am 12. Ted G.:Anti-semitism has existed for centuries. Only a strong Jewish State willing to use all its’ might will prevent another holocaust. Unnecesary casualties are unfortunate, but inevitable. If the Palestinians lay down their arms there will be peace. If the Jewish State lays its’ arms down, there will be another holocaust. Never again!
May 27, 2009 - 8:46 am 13. Avitar:There have always been Art world people who woke up and realized what they were doing. The art world protects its comfortable hallucinations by shoving those people to the fringe of the market and ignoring them. This will happen again.
May 27, 2009 - 9:02 am 14. David Levavi:Snorri:
Just poor spelling on my part Snorri. Sounds like you follow British and European politics more closely than I do.
Truth be told, I have no special axe to grind regarding the British. I was knee-jerk reacting to what at a glance I perceived as America bashing by Brits and responding in kind. (I hope the last wasn’t a run on sentence, Snorri. If i omitted commas, apologies.)
May 27, 2009 - 9:46 am 15. Blue Canary:OMG! Serves me right for contributing to a Zionist site!
Anyway, suggest you watch the evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRjkVb_r1M&annotation_id=annotation_854925&f
May 27, 2009 - 10:30 am 16. Snorri Godhi:eature=iv
Hi David: thanks for the reply. I sure follow European politics, since I am from Western Europe, have worked in Britain for a while, and now I have thankfully moved to Eastern Europe.
No problem about the spelling, I just thought there was some hidden meaning I missed.
May 27, 2009 - 11:19 am 17. Snorri Godhi:Blue Canary: I’ll believe Goebbels before I believe Finkelstein. After all, Goebbels got it right about the Holodomor when the New York Times was pushing Soviet propaganda.
But, as an admirer of Chinggis Khan, I like the way Finkelstein puts it: if you mess with us, we are simply going to destroy you.
May 27, 2009 - 11:28 am 18. steve:Blue Canary: Watched the video and maybe you missed the part where the Israeli DEFENSE concept was if that idiotic ridiculous evil-minded and terrorist organization hamas shot rockets into Israel, then the IDF would retaliate by taking out a neighborhood in Gaza. You know, a neighborhood where the neighbors are members of hamas, and store rockets and feed and assist and have children with the hamas rocket launchers. What is it you don’t understand about war? When you are attacked — especially an unprovoked attack — it is normal to respond with an all-out offense to make your enemy think twice about attacking you. When idiots like you tell hamas to stop perpetuating evil and hateful Jew-hatred on their TVs to young children who they love to dress up as “suicide” bombers, then maybe Israel will stop leveling their neighborhoods and children will then stop dying. Peace is a two-way street and obviously, idiots like you who think this is a “Zionist” site, are one-way thinkers.
May 27, 2009 - 11:59 am 19. mags:Passionate and uncritical American supporters of Israel have long painted all criticism of Israel in the most negative light
Part of that campaign has involved labeling anyone who speaks out against Israeli policies or activities as “anti-Semitic.” While it is true that negative comments on Semites (Jews, Arabs and others) are anti-Semitic, negative comments on the country of Israel are not
Accusations of anti-Semitism are a tool used to silence anyone who criticizes Israeli policies. But would any one criticizing the policy of Iran be labeled as anti-Muslim or anti-Persian? Are critics of the Chinese Government routinely described as anti-Chinese? Is condemning the Saudi Arabian government anti-Arab?
Surely aggression, military occupation and violations of human and political rights should not be put beyond criticism?
Are these all anti-semitics?
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10411.shtml
And these?
http://fluxrostrum.blogspot.com/2009/01/israeli-students-refusing-to-occupy.html
Is there anything that Israel does unacceptable?
May 27, 2009 - 12:54 pm 20. Blue Canary:http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html
Cannot win wars or even hearts and minds taking out women and children, Steve. You can only win hatred and that hatred lives long after you’ve gone but it impacts on those who follow you. Trust me! Maybe watch the video again and listen a little more carefully. It portrays the IDF as a brutalizing force for a brutalizing government – and offers the evidence. What is you didn’t understood but which you twisted to fit your personal mindset? It is unhelpful to call those who disagree with you ‘idiots’ – that merely portrays you as something less than intelligent – let’s just say foolish and leave it at that. There are many Zionists who are articulate and interesting. Why not emulate them and gain respect.
May 27, 2009 - 1:12 pm 21. Oscar the Grouch:mags and Blue Canary
Back at you, I hope you enjoy these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys
http://www.seraphicpress.com/archives/2009/02/hamas_tv_mother.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hToxAai9uME
May 27, 2009 - 1:42 pm 22. elb23:Anti-Semitism is an unfortunate fact of life. It’s based in ignorance.
Hey Blue Canary, you can post all the rhetoric you care to. My mantra ‘Never Again’!
May 27, 2009 - 1:55 pm 23. "progressive"watch:Seven Other Children is a start. The tide must be turned away from hatred and toward real understanding. But the artist world (with its supposedly warm fuzzy brilliant people) is two to one more hypocritical than even the sorry,corrupted political world.
Why are so many Jews against the Jews or at least against Israel? It is unfanthomable to me.
May 27, 2009 - 1:59 pm 24. Roderick Reilly:There are people who are Anti-Zionist but not anti-semitic. I should know, because I met both of them in 1979.
May 27, 2009 - 2:45 pm 25. BettyBlue:You can’t win hearts and minds by taking out women and children?
I don’t know—Islamic terrorists take out women and children all the time, and they’ve certainly won the hearts of people like “Blue canary” and “mags”.
In a sane world, the fact that Palestinian children are encouraged to become “shaheeds”, martyrs, and blow themselves up in order to kill Israelis, would be enough to condemn that society, and deny it any moral standing whatsoever. Sadly, we do not live in a sane world.
The very existence of “suicide bombing”—actually homicide bombing—and terrorist attacks against civilians—is a moral blot on the “Palestine”.
May 27, 2009 - 2:49 pm 26. Oscar the Grouch:mags, Blue Canary
May 27, 2009 - 3:10 pm 27. Blue Canary:Where are you? Don’t you want to come out and play?
Hmmm… exactly when, BettyBlue, did Islamic terrorists kill 400 women and children – or 300 – or 200? Facts please, dates and places. Whilst you’re there, when did any army that you know of deliberately target women and children? (The allied bombing of Dresden and Berlin did not target women and children neither did the atomic bombing of Hiroshoma or Nagasaki). The atrocities that took place in Gaza, and previously in Lebanon, were war crimes. There are no other words. Those victims were unarmed civilians and were killed gratuitously i.e. for no military or other reason – other than to terrorize the population.
May 27, 2009 - 3:33 pm 28. steve:BettyBlue: Thanks. How is it that people like Blue Canary only seem to see one side? And the reason I called her an “idiot” is simple. An “idiot” is a “mentally deficient person with intelligence in the lowest measurable range, BEING UNABLE TO GUARD AGAINST COMMON DANGERS and incapable of learning connected speech,” or in Blue Canary’s case and her ilk, learning to connect history. With the blatant abuse of women and children in islamic society and the history of islamic oppression, terrorism and just plain ol’ evil, it is amazing that these “idiots” even try to claim it is Israeli actions that are the problem. Yes, BettyBlue, we do not live in a sane world, for obviously the “idiots” are not only “unable to guard against common dangers” (despite the evidence of 9/11), but they do not even exhibit sanity in their arguments. It is, as one Saintly visionary stated, that these times in which we live are one of “diabolical disorientation” and Blue Canary and her idiotic friends suffer tremendously from it. We can only pray that God will open their eyes.
May 27, 2009 - 3:42 pm 29. steve:BTW: In case Bluebird girl thinks this is strictly a problem between moslems and Israel, here is a link to a little video that shows the WORLDWIDE persecution of Christians by followers of the false prophet and how that persecution has increased dramatically since 9/11. Perhaps Bluebird lady can tell us how the conflict in Gaza relates to islamic terrorists beheading Christian girls on their way to school? http://media1.terrorismawareness.org/files/MPAC.swf
May 27, 2009 - 3:49 pm 30. lp:Blue Canary – Cannot win wars or even hearts and minds taking out women and children, Steve. You can only win hatred and that hatred lives long after you’ve gone but it impacts on those who follow you. Trust me!
Lets see – mmmmmmmm we should let the arab world and others wipe out our people so that we can win the hearts of the world. I often wonder if comments like this, on this site are meant as a bad joke or if you really believe what you write. Your views are so insane it’s very hard to take you seriously.
May 27, 2009 - 3:50 pm 31. steve:Blue Canary: Regarding your comment at 27, I want you to watch the video I linked to and I want you to particularly focus on the young girl whose SEVERED HEAD IS NEXT TO HER BODY for the crime of being a Christian going to school. Your are so ignorant of history. When you ask about how many children islamic terrorists have killed, have you not heard of the wars they raged against the Byzantine empire and the thousands of women and children they slaughtered? Are you so blind that you do not know they kidnapped Christian toddlers, stealing them from their mothers and then indoctrinated them into being the frontline killers (Janissaries) of their armies? Do you not see what islamic terrorists do to their own children, using them as shields and indoctrinating them into killers? The list goes on and on, but I just to know your comment after looking at the innocent beheaded schoolgirl. Then I want to know when are you going to don a burqa and go fight alongside your beloved terrorists?
May 27, 2009 - 4:02 pm 32. Eric R.:Carol,
Forget about most of your “artists”. They are Communists – members of a genocidal religious sect that murdered 100 million people in 100 years, and now want to finish the work of a man they love, but pretend to hate — Adolf Hitler — and wipe every last Jew off the face of the earth.
May 27, 2009 - 4:52 pm 33. BettyBlue:Islamic terrorists killed thousands of men, women and children on 9/11.
coming up with some more stuff for you.
May 27, 2009 - 5:05 pm 34. BettyBlue:Here are some links you can follow up on: http://markhumphrys.com/israel.html
May 27, 2009 - 5:08 pm 35. BettyBlue:http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/oldnews3/terrorism.htm: here’s a historical outline for you, Canary. Both my links, by the way, point to articles that talk about the Lebanese killing Palestinians—apparently, Palestinian deaths only matter if they can be blamed on the Jews.
May 27, 2009 - 5:12 pm 36. BettyBlue:Canary, are you saying that when a homicide bomber walks into a pizzeria, or into an bar mitzva, that’s not targeting civilians? Or when someone blows themselves up at a checkpoint, that isn’t targeting civilians? Are you saying this isn’t done to terrorize the population?
Have you heard about Beslan, by the way? Do you think all those Russian school kids were armed and dangerous? Do you think they were murdered because the Islamic Chechen terrorists were afraid the kids would attack them, so they had to shoot first? What about the schools that have been attacked in Israel? Again, kids; are we really supposed to think deliberately targeting children is just collateral damage, or wasn’t intended to terrorize the population?
You have heard of Mumbai, right? What was the purpose of that, if not to terrorize civilians? Or do you really think those Jewish chabadniks, and those Indian commuters who died that day were offering some kind of threat to Moslems?
What about the Islamic groups terrorizing the Philippines? Are we really supposed to think these are just casualties of war? “Filipinos out of Palestine!” Yah, right.
May 27, 2009 - 5:20 pm 37. BettyBlue:You’re welcome, Steve. The reason I think they can only see one side is that, like many other unhappy idiots, they find a strange sort of comfort in Anti-semetism, and hating Zionists—also, in nourishing some strange, romantic dream of noble Islamic warriors, battling Zionism, and colonialism.
We can only hope God will open their eyes, because I’m afraid nothing else is going to penetrate.
May 27, 2009 - 5:23 pm 38. BettyBlue:And here are yet more links: not only are Palestinian terrorists targeting Israeli kids, they’re targeting their own, by setting up missiles on UN schoolgrounds! http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/israel-hits-terrorist-rocket-launch.html
May 27, 2009 - 5:29 pm 39. BettyBlue:And another article about Islamic terrorists most definitely targeting women and children: http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11278
May 27, 2009 - 5:52 pm 40. Naif Mabat:While Dresden, Berlin, Hiroshima, etc. did not target children in particular, they did target civilians in particular, which inevitably includes children. There were no military targets in these cities. It would have been possible to fight WWII without targeting them, but the allies decided to do it anyway.
By comparison, Israeli operations in Gaza had primarily military objectives. It simply would not have been possible to pursue any military objectives at all without engaging in fighting in Gaza, which also houses many civilians.
In this sense, Israeli tactics in Gaza were held to more stringent humanitarian standards than anything done by any side in WWII. If the body count of children disturbs you, this is not due to differences in what Israelis decided to target compared to what the allies in WWII decided to target. It is due to Hamas locating all of its military infrastructure as deeply as possible within civilian areas. Even the Nazis had the decency not to locate military targets within Dresden.
May 27, 2009 - 6:13 pm 41. steve:Apparently, the link to the video showing the severed head of the poor, innocent and slaughtered-like-a-lamb Christian schoolgirl got lost in cyberspace; so here it is again: http://media1.terrorismawareness.org/files/MPAC.swf
May 27, 2009 - 6:21 pm 42. Naif Mabat:Anti-zionists who are not anti-semites remind me of those heavy elements at the end of the periodic table.
In theory, they exist, but they are never observed in nature. Scientists can construct them under pristine laboratory conditions, but their molecules are so unstable that no sooner are they formed than they spontaneously decay into baser elements.
May 27, 2009 - 6:43 pm 43. Oscar the Grouch:Blue Canary
Hmmm… exactly when, BettyBlue, did Islamic terrorists kill 400 women and children – or 300 – or 200? Facts please, dates and places. Whilst you’re there, when did any army that you know of deliberately target women and children
How about Darfur? That’s probably over a million. If you want to go back to the Turkish genocide of Armenians that’s over a million also.
May 27, 2009 - 7:48 pm 44. Oscar the Grouch:Blue Canary
May 27, 2009 - 7:54 pm 45. Edward Norden:Did you ever take a history course or listen to the daily news? You are so ignorant that you come off pathetic. Your view of the world and the body politic is myopic at best. Please come up with something better if you want to butt heads on this blog.
19. Mags: Can you cite a single anti-Semitic text in which “Arabs or others” are mentioned as villains? You know, texts like the Gospels, the Koran, the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, Mein Kampf?
May 27, 2009 - 9:05 pm 46. jw:Thank you in advance.
It is not true that Dresden, Berlin, and Hiroshima were not military targets. Dresden was a transport center for the military; Berlin was the capital of Germany; Hiroshima was a major port and industrial city.
May 27, 2009 - 9:15 pm 47. PatriotUSA:Blue Canary:
I suggest you read the following book because it will prove to you beyond any doubts of the seeds of jihad that were implanted into Islam in the 7th century, are alive and well today. You are nothing but an apologist for an ideology that hides behind women and children and wants nothing more than every Jew dead and Israel wiped off the map. Call me what you want, I do not care! It is the likes of me that will be even defending you when they come to whack off your head.
Here is the book: “The Legacy of Jihad”
Islamic Holy War and the fate of Non- Muslims.
Edited by Andrew Bostom, Foreward by Ibn Warraq
I have many other books but I doubt you could handle the truth
Oscar the grouch: Way to go and no, BC will not come out and play. Most people lke this cannot take the heat or comments once they are turned up.
May 27, 2009 - 11:30 pm 48. Carol Gould:Snorri Godhi,
May 28, 2009 - 2:58 am 49. Snorri Godhi:I am reminded on a weekly basis by the US-based Pajamas Media that I use English-isms and European-isms in every submission, and that I must stop using them. I explained ‘hoist..’ for this very reason.
When I wrote for American ‘Front Page’ the editors changed ‘own goal’ to ’something unhelpful’ and when I complained they got very, very annoyed with me.
Carol Gould: thanks for your reply. My objection is not that you explained yourself, but that ‘hoist…’, being in the English language, is not an European-ism.
May 28, 2009 - 3:14 am 50. Naif Mabat:It is not true that Dresden, Berlin, and Hiroshima were not military targets. Dresden was a transport center for the military; Berlin was the capital of Germany; Hiroshima was a major port and industrial city.
Fair enough, jw.
But if being a transportation center or merely an “industrial city” is enough to qualify as a military target and get attackers off the hook for war crimes when civilians die… then anything and anyone in Gaza is more than more than fair game.
Gaza is more than just a transportation center for Hamas, it is the site of virtually all of their fighters and weapons caches. Even more importantly, it is where they launch all of their attacks from. And the Israeli military still exercised more care in selecting targets there than the allies or anyone else did in WWII.
There were never any German attacks launched out of Dresden or Japansese attacks out of Hiroshima, yet these cities were indiscriminately bombed to the ground.
I won’t quibble about what the definition of “military target” actually is, but once you set it, you should be expected to apply it consistently.
May 28, 2009 - 6:13 am 51. BettyBlue:Oscar, yes, Darfur is now over a million.
350 were killed in the Beslan massacre—most of them children. Over 100 were killed in the Mumbai terrorist attack in November, 2008. And, did I mention 9/11?
And these are just some of the recent attacks. For a good overall history, Legacy of Jihad is a good book (as PatriotUSA suggests), as is Spenser’s Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades.
May 28, 2009 - 6:18 am 52. Naif Mabat:I might add that the Israeli city of Sderot is not the site of any Israeli military activity and it is not even a port, industrial city, or transportation center.
Nor were any of the other Israeli cities selected by Hamas for missile attacks, with the possible exception of Ashdod, which does have a port.
May 28, 2009 - 6:23 am 53. Karen:Hmmm, did the Sri Lankans target women and children in their war against the Tamil Tigers? Who would know? They didn’t allow the media in and are not allowing the Red Cross in. But there are thousands dead and maimed. Islamic militants in Afghanistan target female children all the time in their attempts to put an end to education for girls. And Islamic terrorists are blowing up women and children by the thousands in Iraq. How many women and children were killed in Syria when the governments slaughtered 10,000 people in the city of Hama? Darfur is another example mentioned above where women and children have been targeted by the government of Sudan and have died in the hundreds of thousands. These are examples of where woman and children have been killed along with men (like it should matter), whether by armies of the state, their proxies or armies of Islamic rebels.
Here is what I have concluded. If the Palestinians’ “occupiers” were not Jews, no one in the world would care about them. And that is a fact.
May 28, 2009 - 6:40 am 54. BettyBlue:Karen, you’re right.
Talking about Darfur. . . a lot of black Moslems were killed there, as well as Christians and animists. And, yet, you never heard anything about them from the Palestinian supporters. And you never hear anything about, say, Palestinians being attacked, or discriminated against, in Moslem countries.
Their “sympathy” only springs into action when it’s something involving the Jews, or the supposedly evil USA.
May 28, 2009 - 7:59 am 55. mags:Karen/BettyBlue, http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iXSZdPEoCce6BZD-1J0F5li7Y7zw
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=17619
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1183453/Gordon-Browns-warning-Sri-Lanka-crushes-rebels.html?ITO=1490
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/renewed-calls-humanitarian-truce-sri-lanka-20090327
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/renewed-calls-humanitarian-truce-sri-lanka-20090327
http://ru.truveo.com/Boycott-Sri-Lankan-Airlines/id/2752802556
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/20/sri-lanka-protests-parliament
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/20/sri-lanka-protests-parliament
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/sri-lanka-escorts-british-journalist-jeremy-page-detention
Was this not reported in the U.S?
May 28, 2009 - 9:29 am 56. mags:“We must expel Arabs and take their places.”
– David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”
– David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”
May 28, 2009 - 10:04 am 57. BettyBlue:– David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
Some of it was reported, as I recall.
At any rate, thousands did die there. It’s nice that some groups are taking an interest, but, as long as the media is being kept out, it’s hard to say exactly what’s going on there. I’m taking a wait and see attitude.
May 28, 2009 - 10:18 am 58. BettyBlue:mags: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/presence.html
May 28, 2009 - 10:21 am 59. BettyBlue:Arabs are native to Saudi Arabia, which was their homeland, until the Four Righteous Caliphs began their conquests, back in the 7th Century: http://christianactionforisrael.org/never_arab.html
May 28, 2009 - 10:24 am 60. BettyBlue:And I wouldn’t put too much faith in Chomsky; he’s a linquist, and a popular Lefty writer, not a historian. And he’s made some big mistakes, like his take on the Cambodian genocide. He also has a big hate-on for Israel, and the United States: http://www.saidit.org/archives/feb03/mediaglance.html
May 28, 2009 - 10:31 am 61. BettyBlue:Here’s a more complex view of Ben Gurion: http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story638.html
I would like to point out that, during WWII, the Arab nations were Nazi allies. One of the biggest Moslem Nazi supporter was the Grand Mufti of Jersualem, who was also Yassir Arafat’s uncle.
May 28, 2009 - 10:37 am 62. Naif Mabat:The phony Ben-Gurion quotes are sort of like the obligatory moldy cookies the exhausted host serves an unwanted guest.
Everyone knows these are indeble, but they’re served anyway. Maybe the unwanted guest will be offended and leave. Whatever you do, don’t take a bite!
“We must expel Arabs and take their places”
And mags forgot this golden oldie:
“The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.”
My personal favorite is the one where Ariel Sharon is “quoted” telling Shimon Peres that “We, the Jews, control American policy.”
A lot more fun ones can be foundhere. And you can always make up more yourself. Who knows, you may end up being quoted by Chomsky.
‘bye all.
May 28, 2009 - 11:35 am 63. Edward Norden:Mags: still waiting for citations of “Arabs and others” in any anti-Semitic text. Thank you.
May 28, 2009 - 11:39 am 64. BettyBlue:LOL, thanks for the links, Naif!
Chomsky, fake quotes and Hamas—Oh, my!
May 28, 2009 - 12:03 pm 65. Sophia:Anyway – how did a discussion of rank antisemitism in Churchills’ play (and elsewhere in the British “art” and academic world) get flipped back on the Jews?
Sadly this is all too common a tactic to avoid dealing with the fact of antisemitism which is at least partially responsible for driving the Middle East conflict in the first place and TOTALLY responsible for all the hate crimes inflicted upon Jews including the Shoah.
One tiny quibble – Levavi, with respect, the British flew at night, not the Americans.
The American Air Forces flew during the day in order to try and perform precision rather than carpet bombing and they payed an enormous price for that in casualties.
This was also true in Jenin where Israeli soldiers were placed in harm’s way to avoid hurting civilians.
Yet, Jenin was trumpeted as a huge massacre, the Israelis were blamed for a “holocaust” complete with references to Aushwitz and as they have been repeatedly, for “genocide”, which is absurd.
It is impossible to separate the distortions of reality in the British media but also their policy toward the Jewish people before, during and after the Holocaust, in the Mandate and toward Israel after the state was established from the outright antisemitism that’s become fashionable today and which is spreading to the US. The Guardian is especially awful but BBC, state funded, is dreadfully biased.
BBC in particular is a problem because of their global reach and because of their pretensions toward unbiased journalism.
Yet in the case in Israel their bias has been proven, it is embarrasingly obvious and they refuse to publish the Balen report – preferring to pay enormous fines to keep it closed.
Worst, the Palestinians regard BBC as an ally. This in itself helps continue the violence as the cause of “resistance” has such powerful friends in the West. Where’s the incentive to settle the dispute peacefully and reconcile?
Thus I’m grateful to Stirling but it’s not nearly enough and it may be way too late.
http://www.adl.org/israel/jenin/default.asp
May 28, 2009 - 1:07 pm 66. wancow:Ms. Gould,”Dominic Cook of the Court arrogantly argued that there was never a necessity to refute King Lear or A Doll’s House.”
Mr. Stirling might have responded with the fact that “The Golden Compass” was the Anti-Christian Response to “The Chronicles of Narnia.”
May 28, 2009 - 1:29 pm 67. BettyBlue:Sophia, it’s because anti-semites really don’t like it when they, or the Arab world, get any criticism. They try to deflect said criticism by painting Israel to be evil—”See? See what those Jews are doing? How can you criticize us for anti-semetism, when the Jews are doing such terrible things?”
May 28, 2009 - 2:09 pm 68. Edward Norden:Mags: still waiting…….
May 28, 2009 - 4:13 pm 69. mags:The belief that if you critisize Israel that means you want to kill them all is such a odd approach
It is immature to believe that if you question Israels’ actions that means you agree with terrorism.
.Israel’s current assault on the Gaza Strip cannot be justified by self-defense. Rather, it involves serious violations of international law.
I don’t think there is justification for any war crimes on Israel’s part because Hamas and co. are lunatic murderers. It doesn’t matter what Hamas or any other terrorist does or has done in that case. Wrong is wrong.
It was the same with South Africa during apartheid.,even though there was brutal african dictators we expected better from a ‘western like’ democracy.
Israel is held to a higher standard because it is supposed to be ‘like us’
It has been true for years that the most potent criticism of Israel’s mistreatment of the Palestinians comes from the Israeli press and Israeli peace groups. For example, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz .
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/947631.html
This isn’t pallywood or evil doers propaganda.
Israeli soldiers have provided the most damning indictment yet of the army’s conduct during the recent Gaza war, claiming they committed serious abuses against civilians, including the shooting of unarmed women and children.
Increasing numbers of Israelis have refused to fight on occupied land,they are being imprisoned.
This represents the first uncensored recording in Israel of what occurred within combat units which took part in what Israel codenamed Operation Cast Lead. The picture drawn by the soldiers differs radically from the refined version of the war provided by military commanders to the public and Israeli media.
These aren’t palestinians reporting and therefore just propaganda.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.htm
Some people have de-humanised a whole area of the world.
You can support israel and be an allie,just stop the hypocrisy and double standards
——————————————————————————–
May 28, 2009 - 5:42 pm 70. BettyBlue:Ah, yes, the old higher standard argument; Israelis are “like us”, so they must be constantly attacked for not living up to our high standards, and for attempting to defend themselves against brutal enemies, who want their destruction.
I guess that means that we can’t hold Islamic terrorists to any standards at all, because they’re not “like us”, they’re inferior beings, incapable of knowing right from wrong, or decent behavior—at least, according to your reasoning.
Sorry, the old “higher standard” schtick sounds like good ol’ anti-semetism, just under a different name; if Israelis don’t, at all times, and in every way, live up to our high standards, they’re evil, and committing war crimes.
By the by—we did expect better from South Africa, and we ignored the brutal African dictators, and today, South Africa is becoming yet another hellhole, and the brutal dictators are running amok across the continent. But, by gum and by jingo, we held to our high standards, and everything there’s hunky-dory! Except it’s really not. Frankly, I think the whole “higher standards” thing is BS. Israel withdrew from Gaza, and the Palestinians destroyed all the greenhouses they could have used to feed themselves, then elected Hamas, a terrorist organization that’s committed to the destruction of Israel. But, I guess, Israel’s just supposed to sit back, and let itself be attacked, and tear down the fence, and end their checkpoints, so the Palestinians can come in and kill them whenever they feel like it.
And, yes, the fact that Hamas and co. are lunatic murderers does have a lot to do with it. And it seems to me that those who want to hold Israel to higher standards never seem to get that incensed when Islamic terrorists attack innocents—even fellow Moslems. Somehow, the whole “wrong is wrong” self-righteous stance never seems to apply to them. Dehumanization? LOL! It seems to me the Islamic area of the world has been given a free pass to do exactly what it likes—and get foreign aid, in the bargain! The Saudis are our friends, we can reason with Ahmadenijad, Islamic terrorists just want to free Palestine, but Israel? We’ve got to hold Israel to higher standards!
May 28, 2009 - 8:30 pm 71. BettyBlue:Also, the situation isn’t quite so cut-and-dried, as “Innocent Palestinians, evil Israelis:” http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/05/why-tehran-stokes-violence-in-gaza/
May 28, 2009 - 8:34 pm 72. Lynn B.:Blue Canary….Finkelstein?
May 29, 2009 - 5:05 am 73. BettyBlue:If 8,000 rockets were fired at my city and neighborhoods, I would expect, actually demand, that it be stopped. I really don’t think I would care who had to die to end it.
Hamas brings this on, by firing rockets at Israel, and working with Iran; then they hide among civilian populations, and play the victim card when they finally manage to goad Israel into attacking them.
As I said earlier, killing women and children—if you belong to a politically correct victim group—will actually gain you lots of support. It all depends on which women and children you kill.
May 29, 2009 - 7:23 am 74. Danny:Blue Canary, is that a joke? Norman Finkelstein? Couldn’t you find a film from Al-Manar quoting Nasrallah?
May 29, 2009 - 8:57 am 75. Lynn B.:#73 BettyBlue;
May 29, 2009 - 8:58 am 76. BettyBlue:Yes, indeed it does depend on which ones. Sri Lanka has killed 20,000 Tamil men, women and children, and 100,000 are in a refugee camp. Janjaweed and the Sudanese have killed 300,000 Darfurians and displaced 2 million or so. Even after an arrest warrant from the Hague, Bashir is still roaming around the ME and being defended by the Arab States.
But, remember, Lynn B., we must hold Israel to higher standards! After all, it’s “like us”! All those Sri Lankands, Sudanese and Janjaweeders are our little brown brothers, or something of the sort; hapless babes, not capable of reason or morality, like us superior beings!
(Okay, end of sarc.!)
Given the obsessive preoccupation with Israel/Palestinians, as opposed to the indifference to many far more horrible things going on in the world today. . . all I can think is that, yes, this is anti-semetism, or, at best, it’s carrying the whole “superior standards’ thing to the point of the ridiculous!
May 29, 2009 - 10:48 am 77. BettyBlue:As for Norman Finklestein, sorry, guy’s just not reliable: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1129540643087
May 29, 2009 - 10:53 am 78. Edward Norden:Mags: please please please give us one example of the “Arabs or others” mentioned negatively in any anti-Semitic text. Pretty please?
May 29, 2009 - 2:36 pm 79. Edward Norden:Hello? Mags? Are you there?
May 29, 2009 - 2:40 pm 80. mags:Yes i am,but i am watching Britain’s got talent
May 29, 2009 - 3:26 pm 81. mags:Mr Norden,
Your wish is my command.
http://cnnexposed.com/story.php?story=24
http://www.likud.nl/press498.html
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1455800.php/EU_aid_commissioner_Hamas_also_responsible_for_Gaza_destruction_
http://www.metimes.com/International/2009/02/05/un_accuses_hamas_of_stealing_aid/7741/
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,600724,00.html
Israel has gone to great lengths to ensure that the world does not know the extent of its crimes against humanity inside of Gaza. In Israel itself, there are protests against this war on a captive people.
Thousands have gathered to protest daily in Tel Aviv, West Jerusalem, Haifa, Nazaret, Um el-Fahem, Tira, Taybe, and other cities. Citizens called up as reservists have refused service, risking jail.
Why is there no support for the anti-occupation groups in Israel, and even their own human rights movements?
Are they ‘with us’ or a terrorist?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1237727517458
How do you define ‘anti-semitism?
May 29, 2009 - 5:44 pm 82. mags:Edward,hello? Are you there?
Are you watching American idol?
It’s a beautiful day here in Liverpool(there are other cities in the U.K,not just London)
It’s a big day today, Everton are in the F.A cup final,against Chelsea(which is owned by scary Russian billionaires).
The whole country is backing us.
As an allie i would appreciate it if could have EVERTON tatooed on your head,get drunk,fight and then vomit over everyone in homage to our team.
May 30, 2009 - 5:05 am 83. Lynn B.:#76 BettyBlue…Extremist views on everything from child abuse to moral equivalency has been the hallmark of the leftists. I am not against peace, but “peace at any price” is not justifiable.
May 30, 2009 - 6:15 am 84. BettyBlue:mags, looking at the articles, I really don’t see Arabs mentioned negatively. They’re mostly about UN reports which allege that Hamas may have used human shields, or that they may have stolen certain funds, or that the UN is becoming more critical of Hamas. They seem pretty mild, and waiting for more evidence to come in. No caricatures of Arabs as hook-nosed fiends, no blood libels, no accusations that they come from an impure race—how is this “anti-semetic” or “anti-Arab?” Are you saying Hamas shouldn’t be criticized?
Are you saying that it’s “anti-semetic” to criticize any Arab group, even one like Hamas? That seems to me rather far-fetched!
And if Israel has, allegedly, gone to such lengths to ensure the world doesn’t know about its crimes, how is it you’re so sure that it’s guilty? You, apparently, live in Britain, not Gaza. Are you a spy? You have special insider tips on what Israel is doing that the rest of us, even the UN, is unaware of? If there are thousands of protesters inside Israel itself, then I’d say Israel is doing a remarkably poor job, both of covering up its crimes, and being a tyranny.
“Anti-semetism” is a bad term. It could be better defined as “Jew Hate”.
May 30, 2009 - 6:24 am 85. BettyBlue:Israel is a democratic nation. It has differences of opinion, and even allows protests against its government policy. And it investigates, when its army is accused of wrongdoing. Where are the Islamic investigations, and protests, against this practice? http://www.danielpipes.org/390/suicide-bombers-a-fathers-pride-and-glory
May 30, 2009 - 6:39 am 86. Karen:Extreme crimes against humanity in Gaza, Mags?! That’s a joke. There wouldn’t have been a war if Hamas hadn’t continually provoked Israel with rockets. They could have stopped the rockets long before a war became necessary. Where is you outrage about this extreme crime against humanity?
And where is your outrage about the Syrian city of Hama? Approximately 10,000 people were killed there by the government and no one did anything about it.
It is this type of double standard that Israel is held to that makes some of us think something more sinister is a work among the “anti-Israel crowd”.
May 30, 2009 - 7:59 am 87. Carol Gould:David Levavi,
May 30, 2009 - 3:10 pm 88. whistler:I agree with you about Don Rumsfeld. My favourite Rummy Quote from hundreds of gems: ‘The American people have a very good centre of gravity.’ The man is brilliant. I met him and his gracious wife Joyce on several occasions when I lived in DC and they made me feel so welcome in a very cold, ruthless and dog-eat-dog city.
What is interesting is that three SecDefs ended up in various manifestations of purgatory: Forrestal (committed suicide) MacNamara (Vietnam stigma) and Rumsfeld ( can’t even wait at a bus stop in DC without being heckled).
Hmmmm
Oh mags, you are just a typical limey Jew hater I was exposed to as a child, before Israel ever existed and while Jews were burning in European ovens. I hope there are better than you in Liverpool
May 30, 2009 - 6:34 pm 89. mags:In Liverpool we have whats called freedom of speech, we can debate world events without abuse.
The words of Israeli peace activist Uri Avnery summed it up chillingly:
“What will be seared into the consciousness of the world (about the Israeli Gaza Invasion) will be the image of Israel as a blood-stained monster, ready at any moment to commit war crimes and not prepared to abide by any moral restraints. This will have severe consequences for our (Israel’s) long term future, our standing in the world, our chance of achieving peace and quiet”
The truth, of course, is that criticizing Israel makes you no more of an anti-Semite than criticizing the regimes in Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma, Iran or Saudi Arabia makes you a racist.
It’s simply a rather desperate tactic that’s used to try and deflect criticism away from horrific human rights abuses, not to mention outright war crimes.
Don’t like Robert Mugabe’s glorious leadership in Zimbabwe? You must be a racist!
Think Saddam’s gassing of the Kurds was a war crime? You anti-Arab bigot!
If you don’t want to believe me,listen to the international aid organisation’s and even the Israeli people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixrYv5pUzps&feature=related
http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Index.asp
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=29734http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/events/1231029668
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/events/1230833966
http://www.mikesanddislikes.com/politics_america_nothing_to_fear_but_truth_itself_criminalizing_criticism_of_israel
Jun 1, 2009 - 10:59 am 90. BettyBlue:Sorry, mags, I really don’t believe you, and I have my doubts about the International aid organization, and I know Israel has a strong—and very moonbatty—leftwing movement, and I don’t think the ones you link to necessarily speak for the Israeli people.
We have freedom of speech in America, too. I’m sorry to see I think you are more motivated by Jew-hate than anything else.
Jun 1, 2009 - 5:24 pm 91. BettyBlue:Yes, Lynn, I know, the old double-standard; Israel is always held to a much, much higher standard, than any of the surrounding Islamic countries.
Yet mags seems to think that some UN reports, very mildly criticizing Hamas, are somehow as bad as the worst anti-semetism.
Of course, such people will always assure you they’re not anti-semetic, they’re just anti-Israel! And, if you question them, or point out that the Palestinians are hardly innocent of violence, it’s just because you’re trying to deflect any criticism of Israel.
Jun 1, 2009 - 6:33 pm