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	<title>Comments on: Can the U.S. and Iraq Have a Long-Term Relationship?</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/</link>
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		<title>By: John in Michigan, USA</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-77887</link>
		<dc:creator>John in Michigan, USA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Surge has prevented civil war, but the situation is delicate. Any formal withdrawal from Iraq would have to deal with the problem of who in Iraq gets credit for it.

Whichever faction or sect is seen as responsible for a wholesale, formal, US &quot;withdrawal&quot; will be able to portray itself as the &quot;savior&quot; of the Iraqi people. This would cause all other factions or sects to loose a great, great deal of face. Unless it was handled just right, the other factions (Sunni, Kurd, non-Maliki Shiites) would have no alternative but to redeem the lost honor via violence.

Such violence might be contained short of civil war, but even so, a great deal of additional blood would have been shed.

It is wrong to treat the &#039;timetable for withdrawal&#039; concept as a mere logistical or security problem. It is not simply a case of, how fast can US equipment be removed, how soon are Iraqi forces available to take over security, etc. Withdrawal would have to be an incredibly delicate diplomatic maneuver as well.

Probably, the best way to withdraw would be to at all costs avoid calling it a withdrawal.

It is interesting to speculate if the relevant people in the Bush administration and McCain campaign understand this subtlety. One way to interpret the US position in favor of &quot;permanent bases&quot; in Iraq is that we have no real need for bases; instead we are using this terminology to avoid calling the withdrawal a withdrawal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Surge has prevented civil war, but the situation is delicate. Any formal withdrawal from Iraq would have to deal with the problem of who in Iraq gets credit for it.</p>
<p>Whichever faction or sect is seen as responsible for a wholesale, formal, US &#8220;withdrawal&#8221; will be able to portray itself as the &#8220;savior&#8221; of the Iraqi people. This would cause all other factions or sects to loose a great, great deal of face. Unless it was handled just right, the other factions (Sunni, Kurd, non-Maliki Shiites) would have no alternative but to redeem the lost honor via violence.</p>
<p>Such violence might be contained short of civil war, but even so, a great deal of additional blood would have been shed.</p>
<p>It is wrong to treat the &#8216;timetable for withdrawal&#8217; concept as a mere logistical or security problem. It is not simply a case of, how fast can US equipment be removed, how soon are Iraqi forces available to take over security, etc. Withdrawal would have to be an incredibly delicate diplomatic maneuver as well.</p>
<p>Probably, the best way to withdraw would be to at all costs avoid calling it a withdrawal.</p>
<p>It is interesting to speculate if the relevant people in the Bush administration and McCain campaign understand this subtlety. One way to interpret the US position in favor of &#8220;permanent bases&#8221; in Iraq is that we have no real need for bases; instead we are using this terminology to avoid calling the withdrawal a withdrawal.</p>
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		<title>By: pettyfoggery &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Time and Place to Change Horses</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-74856</link>
		<dc:creator>pettyfoggery &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Time and Place to Change Horses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/#comment-74856</guid>
		<description>[...] in itself). Example being Mohammed Fadhil of &#8216;Iraq the Model&#8217;: As I predicted in an earlier post, Maliki waited before making adjustments in his position towards the deal. However, the change came [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in itself). Example being Mohammed Fadhil of &#8216;Iraq the Model&#8217;: As I predicted in an earlier post, Maliki waited before making adjustments in his position towards the deal. However, the change came [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pajamas Media » Why Iraq Is Changing Its Tune on Withdrawal</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-71929</link>
		<dc:creator>Pajamas Media » Why Iraq Is Changing Its Tune on Withdrawal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/#comment-71929</guid>
		<description>[...] I predicted in an earlier post, Maliki waited before making adjustments in his position towards the deal. However, the change came [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I predicted in an earlier post, Maliki waited before making adjustments in his position towards the deal. However, the change came [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ani</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-58590</link>
		<dc:creator>Ani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I had no idea that so many Democrats lived in Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had no idea that so many Democrats lived in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: jetlee</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-57991</link>
		<dc:creator>jetlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/#comment-57991</guid>
		<description>&quot; the crowd is easy to convince, thanks to widespread ignorance; sentimental rhetoric is more attractive to them than facts, numbers, and science&quot; - yeh, the world was given facts, numbers and science when America attacked Iraq and we all know how truthful were these facts, numbers and science!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; the crowd is easy to convince, thanks to widespread ignorance; sentimental rhetoric is more attractive to them than facts, numbers, and science&#8221; &#8211; yeh, the world was given facts, numbers and science when America attacked Iraq and we all know how truthful were these facts, numbers and science!</p>
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		<title>By: DrKrbyLuv</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-57900</link>
		<dc:creator>DrKrbyLuv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/#comment-57900</guid>
		<description>Mohammed Fadhil; Thanks for the insightful article. 

It is welcome news indeed to see that the Iraqi Government and its citizenry are debating the proposed U.S.-Iraq agreement. And it is heartening to see that the Government is clearly operating within the legal framework of their Constitution as evidenced by the language used in the June 4, 2008 letter from the Iraqi Parliament:

“We, the undersigned members of the council, wish to confirm your concerns that any international agreement that is not ratified by the Iraqi legislative power is considered unconstitutional and illegal, in accordance with the current rulings and laws of the Iraqi Republic. Furthermore, any treaty, agreement or “executive agreement” that is signed between Iraq and the United States will not be legal and will not enter the stage of implementation without first being ratified by the Council of Representatives, in accordance with Article 61 of Section Four of the Iraqi constitution, which gives the Iraqi government’s legislative power, represented by the Council of Representatives, the exclusive right to ratify international treaties and agreements.”

It is ironic that the United States invaded Iraq under false pretenses without a constitutionally-required declaration of war. Congress was complicit in breaching the Constitution when they yielded their most important charge and authority to Bush. 

Bush wanted to avoid the national debate and vetting process that would have taken place in Congress. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq was made in spite of the fact that we lacked the solid evidence and imminent danger to warrant a just and legal war. The Constitution is designed to avoid having an unwitting, emotional or corrupt President from taking hold of the war trigger.

One can only hope that the U.S. Government may follow the young Iraqi governments lead in conforming to the rules of law and order prescribed in the Constitution. And, hopefully, both Governments will allow an honest and open debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mohammed Fadhil; Thanks for the insightful article. </p>
<p>It is welcome news indeed to see that the Iraqi Government and its citizenry are debating the proposed U.S.-Iraq agreement. And it is heartening to see that the Government is clearly operating within the legal framework of their Constitution as evidenced by the language used in the June 4, 2008 letter from the Iraqi Parliament:</p>
<p>“We, the undersigned members of the council, wish to confirm your concerns that any international agreement that is not ratified by the Iraqi legislative power is considered unconstitutional and illegal, in accordance with the current rulings and laws of the Iraqi Republic. Furthermore, any treaty, agreement or “executive agreement” that is signed between Iraq and the United States will not be legal and will not enter the stage of implementation without first being ratified by the Council of Representatives, in accordance with Article 61 of Section Four of the Iraqi constitution, which gives the Iraqi government’s legislative power, represented by the Council of Representatives, the exclusive right to ratify international treaties and agreements.”</p>
<p>It is ironic that the United States invaded Iraq under false pretenses without a constitutionally-required declaration of war. Congress was complicit in breaching the Constitution when they yielded their most important charge and authority to Bush. </p>
<p>Bush wanted to avoid the national debate and vetting process that would have taken place in Congress. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq was made in spite of the fact that we lacked the solid evidence and imminent danger to warrant a just and legal war. The Constitution is designed to avoid having an unwitting, emotional or corrupt President from taking hold of the war trigger.</p>
<p>One can only hope that the U.S. Government may follow the young Iraqi governments lead in conforming to the rules of law and order prescribed in the Constitution. And, hopefully, both Governments will allow an honest and open debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian H</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-57430</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/#comment-57430</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an interesting take {&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/042wxkzk.asp?pg=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How We&#039;ll Know When We&#039;ve Won, A definition of success in Iraq.&lt;/a&gt;
by Frederick W. Kagan) on the status quo:
&lt;blockquote&gt; An ally in the war on terror. Al Qaeda has killed many more Iraqis than Americans. Iraq has eight army divisions--around 80,000 troops--now in the fight against al Qaeda, and another three--around 45,000 troops--in the fight against Shia extremists. Tens of thousands of Iraqi police and National Police are also in the fight. Thus, there are far more Iraqis fighting al Qaeda and Shia militias in Iraq than there are American troops there. Easily ten times as many Iraqi as Pakistani troops are fighting our common enemies. At least three times as many Iraqi soldiers and police as Afghan soldiers and police are in the fight. And many times more Iraqi troops are engaged in the war on terror than those of any other American ally. In terms of manpower engaged, and sacrifice of life and limb, &lt;b&gt;Iraq is already by far America&#039;s best ally in the war on terror&lt;/b&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Did you get that?  From a premier subversive  collaborator with world-wide killer jihadis to #1 anti-terror ally in 5 years ain&#039;t bad.  
So I guess GWB won.  Hud&#039;a thunk?  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting take {<a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/042wxkzk.asp?pg=2" rel="nofollow">How We&#8217;ll Know When We&#8217;ve Won, A definition of success in Iraq.</a><br />
by Frederick W. Kagan) on the status quo:</p>
<blockquote><p> An ally in the war on terror. Al Qaeda has killed many more Iraqis than Americans. Iraq has eight army divisions&#8211;around 80,000 troops&#8211;now in the fight against al Qaeda, and another three&#8211;around 45,000 troops&#8211;in the fight against Shia extremists. Tens of thousands of Iraqi police and National Police are also in the fight. Thus, there are far more Iraqis fighting al Qaeda and Shia militias in Iraq than there are American troops there. Easily ten times as many Iraqi as Pakistani troops are fighting our common enemies. At least three times as many Iraqi soldiers and police as Afghan soldiers and police are in the fight. And many times more Iraqi troops are engaged in the war on terror than those of any other American ally. In terms of manpower engaged, and sacrifice of life and limb, <b>Iraq is already by far America&#8217;s best ally in the war on terror</b>.</p></blockquote>
<p>Did you get that?  From a premier subversive  collaborator with world-wide killer jihadis to #1 anti-terror ally in 5 years ain&#8217;t bad.<br />
So I guess GWB won.  Hud&#8217;a thunk?  <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: p2</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-56019</link>
		<dc:creator>p2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 16:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>so their idea of fighting for freedom is to leave it up to the najaf clergy?!!
this whole idea of handing this issue to the dems before the election is idiocy. Iraq will understand if we say that we think its too early to propose this yet and the proof is that it would come down to the najaf clergy.
duh..
the pubbies are really mushy right now and arent fighting back. I think that W is using his dad&#039;s kid glove theory like when Gorby was opening up. No insults or balls or leadership or whatever.
Delay this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so their idea of fighting for freedom is to leave it up to the najaf clergy?!!<br />
this whole idea of handing this issue to the dems before the election is idiocy. Iraq will understand if we say that we think its too early to propose this yet and the proof is that it would come down to the najaf clergy.<br />
duh..<br />
the pubbies are really mushy right now and arent fighting back. I think that W is using his dad&#8217;s kid glove theory like when Gorby was opening up. No insults or balls or leadership or whatever.<br />
Delay this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom W.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-55078</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Liberty and Islam are completely incompatible.&quot;

Thanks for that completely useless contribution.

&quot;Four legs good, two legs bad! Four legs good, two legs bad! Cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Liberty and Islam are completely incompatible.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for that completely useless contribution.</p>
<p>&#8220;Four legs good, two legs bad! Four legs good, two legs bad! Cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Roark</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-54941</link>
		<dc:creator>Roark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-the-us-and-iraq-have-a-long-term-relationship/#comment-54941</guid>
		<description>Liberty and Islam are completely incompatible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberty and Islam are completely incompatible.</p>
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