The employer gets to force a validating election if at all because anyone that has ever had contact with a union organizer knows what subtle coercion means. Voting for a union is not done by secret ballot until the employer forces and election. That is the time people get to vote in secret.

You can see full blown coercion when union goons slash tires and attack workers who dare to work when the union calls a strike–”how dare they work when we say no one will?” If you want to see more beneficient union effort on behalf of employees, be there when someone at home tells an organizer “No, I don’t want to join a union.”

Whatever the shortcomings of the current system, eliminating the secret ballot is not going to improve them.

Peace to you too.

Try some “remedial” education on the constitution sometime genius.The secret ballot is part and parcel to a free society and free association, something you lefties care nothing about.

“There’s another unspoken alternative – businesses being shut down or moved overseas.”

As if businesses have not been moving overseas for the last thirty years? Gimme a break. Some businesses will possibly move – but on balance unions improve the average living standard of working Americans.

@4. David B:

“What galls me about the proposed EFCA is the removal of the secret ballot. If the unions are so wanted and needed by employees what purpose does it serve to deny that right? Let people freely choose what they want without threats of coercion or repercussion.”

There is no “removal” of the secret ballot. Just the restoration of card check as an alternative.

“Oh yeah, I’m not too hot about the government being able to dictate employment contracts either.”

The alternative is the continued abuse of labor by big business. I prefer timely arbitration.

@5. IP 727:

“The secret ballot is sacrosanct in this country davie boy, and the courts would smack this union good crapola down in a new york second.”

Apparently you don’t understand the history of labor law in the USA. I don’t have the time to engage in remedial education. There is approximately zero chance that EFCA would be struck down by any court.

6. antaine:

“It’s possible for a good thing to turn parasitic and detrimental if it gets too large or powerful. After looking at the auto industry (and others), there can be no question that unions have reached that tipping point.”

I think you grossly overstate the impact of unions on the incompetence of management in the auto industry (and others). To claim that unions are too large or powerful when membership is at historic lows is rather disingenuous.

@7. blotto:

“What happens when the company closes because the owner cannot make payroll??”

If you can show me such a case, I would be interested to learn more. I don’t think any employee union has incentive to run the employer out of business. Quite the opposite – this is an adversarial relationship that, by its very nature, is also cooperative. Mutual dependency is a pretty good motivator.

@8. Fernando:

“Only the right of voting without being intimidated is being removed and we need that right back!!”

If you think that workers are currently enjoying a right to vote without being intimidated, you have not explored the current state of anti-labor practice in the workplace. New laws had to be passed in my state (Oregon) recently to prevent mandatory political indoctrination of employees, specifically in response to employer intimidation regarding organizing.

Study the case of Wal-mart, if you have any question about the lengths to which a corporation will go, within and outside the law, to abuse and frustrate collective bargaining.

@15. tammy:

If you did fire people for organizing, I expect you would lose your business, or a large chunk of cash. You can’t fire people for exercising their rights. Especially when you’ve publicly indicated a willingness to do so.

“Unions are not needed like they once were. We have laws to protect workers now. If you don’t like your job, quit! Shut-up and get another job, or better yet, try starting your own company and see how easy it is.”

You admit that unions serve a purpose, but somehow you imagine that we now live in a world where that purpose is obsolete, and violations of workers rights and safety are simply an occasion to “shut up and get another job”, rather than enforce the laws on the books, or bargain for improvements in working conditions.

@17. Blackwell:

“….the issue is maintaining employee choice: a secret ballot does quite well for that.”

Why should an employer be able to force an election after a majority of employees approve a union? There is no reason I can see for requiring the delay and expense of an election other than employee intimidation on the part of the employer.

@18. Steve:

“David S, employers cannot veto a decision by employees to form a union if they vote in a secret ballot. They can only ignore the vote if it is a public ballot. Get off this site if you are not going to tell the truth.”

They can ignore it to the extent that they can negotiate in poor faith indefinitely. Without mandatory arbitration even a secret ballot election can be effectively vetoed.

@19. Hotpatch 6:

“Hey posters, leave David S. alone – he is just following orders.”

Nobody is giving me orders, but it is obvious that I struck a nerve here.

@27. Concerned:

” – you forgot to mention the mandatory arbitration that is also stuck in the EFC. All the union has to do is refuse to accept the company offer for 90 days and then a government arbitrator comes in and makes a decision. This could cause more companies to fold up a they are stuck with unsustainable contracts.”

There is no reason to believe EFCA will cause companies to fold up. It is more likely that the result will be workers with better wages and benefits, superior working conditions, and a right to organize that is no subject to management review. Union employees have no incentive to harm their employer – only to prevent harm to themselves.

@32. Phoenix48:

“… the new mafia is Big Business not Big Labor.”

Sad but true. Although I am sure that some on this board would rather point the finger at government, it has been unrestrained corporatism that has been the biggest danger to our Republic, and caused the most egregious harm.

Peace.

DS

I don’t know which planet you live on genius, but the taft hartly act has allowed “recruiting & soliciting” from the day it passed.

“recruit & solicit”_== sign up or have your tires slashed.

The UAW really helped their membership.same as PATCO helped theirs. Bring the unions under the anti trust laws just like any other monopoly would be.

What is going to change is that for the first time since Hoffa disappeared in ‘75 the federal government is setting labor free to recruit & solicit in the private sector.

That drives people like you IP 727 off a cliff nutzo. It isn’t about a secrete ballot provision – it’s about old school collective bargining. You don’t want that option available to any american of any age and you’ll do anything to prevent it.

I guess a ‘run on the buck’ in the Mutual Market isn’t enough for you. Where were you on Sept 8th 2008? Talk to your average 25 year old with a six month old child about whether they’d go with a defined pension (like gov workers have) or the 401k where trillions go POOF over night?

Unions don’t need goons mimicing Nicky Scarfo or Jimmy Hoffa to recruit. From Enron to AIG to BOA to ….you name it … has already plowed the field.

and you know it. and it drives you bat-*&^! crazy. Check Card isn’t about the sanctity of the secrete ballot. It’s about Labor getting off federal government probation.

Because the new mafia is Big Business not Big Labor.

If this piece of union crap does pass, the court will ultimately strike down the elimination of the secret ballot provision to prevent union goon intimidation. Every major piece of socialist bravo sierra in this country was pushed by organized labor, we don’t need to impower them further.Organized labor==organized coercion.

Don’t work too hard, you make everyone else look bad.

Please ignore David S. He always, without any exception, subscribes to the Democratic Party talking point of the the moment. He obviously sticks his wet finger into the air to see which way the wind is blowing.