Email This to a Friend
Charging Bush With Stealing the 2004 Election
Republicans won't flock to see Stealing America: Vote by Vote — but the story it uncovers is no partisan witch hunt.
The oddest fact thrown into the mix here involves vote switching. Some voters interviewed here claim they pushed the button to select Sen. Kerry, but the electronic voting machines lit up the Pres. Bush button instead. It’s unclear whether these voters could switch back to Sen. Kerry once they noticed the mistake.
What’s more curious is that these switcheroos worked in Pres. Bush’s favor in 12 out of every 13 cases, according to the film.
Much of the material presented here was excavated by bloggers and Internet-based journalists. It’s unfair to paint these bloggers as fantastical partisans, given the yeoman work so many bloggers perform today on the political scene.
But the filmmakers failed to ask some key questions that would have broadened the documentary’s focus — and audience.
Why, exactly, did the mainstream media fail to follow up on possible voter fraud on the grandest scale? It’s a story that would have made Watergate look like a cherry bomb going off in a high school bathroom.
Director Dorothy Fadiman and her crew don’t ask the major news outlets that question. Did they fear the answer? Or did they not want their polemic watered down in any fashion?
Better yet, why didn’t Sen. Kerry pursue the matter with more vigor?
Stealing America is methodical in its storytelling, and some of its talking heads have incredible stories to tell — stories that seem hard to shake off as fiction. One computer programmer tells how a politician asked him to create software that would corrupt a voting machine, which he does without breaking a sweat. The man’s testimony here is compelling, and it certainly gives audiences a fright about the vulnerability of the electronic system.
The film deserves points for coming up with some solutions to what it sees as major voting irregularities. Let’s go back to paper ballots, an old school approach that at least is less hack-proof than computerized machines. And it’s infinitely easier to track.
Stealing America: Vote by Vote says our recent elections have been compromised, and every time it’s the Republicans who benefited from the changes.
It’s a message that will scare off many right-leaning movie goers, but there’s too much evidence lined up here to cast the film aside as merely a partisan witch hunt.
<- Prev Page 2 of 2
Christian Toto is a freelance writer and film critic for The Washington Times. His work has appeared in People magazine, MovieMaker Magazine, The Denver Post, The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, and Scripps Howard News Service. He also contributes movie radio commentary to three stations as well as the nationally syndicated Dennis Miller Show and runs the blog What Would Toto Watch?
 |
 |
 |
Podcasts |  PJM Home |
Pajamas Media appreciates your comments that abide by the following guidelines:
1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a necessary quote or is relevant to the comment.
2. Stay on topic.
3. Disagree, but avoid ad hominem attacks.
4. Threats are treated seriously and reported to law enforcement.
5. Spam and advertising are not permitted in the comments area.
The clause regarding "hate speech" has been deleted because readers criticized it as being too loosely defined. We agreed.
These guidelines are very general and cannot cover every possible situation. Please don't assume that Pajamas Media management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment. We reserve the right to filter or delete comments or to deny posting privileges entirely at our discretion. If you feel your comment was filtered inappropriately, please email us at story@pajamasmedia.com.
84 Comments
1. DavidN:Several observations:
1. I ignore polls these days, except as a vague barometer of the relative positions of those running for office. Polls virtually always favor the Democrats, by 2-5 points. For whatever reason, this renders them meaningless. Who knows, maybe the pollsters in 2004 asked who the voter *should* have voted for, or they were embarrassed to admit to voting for Bush, or something.
2. Democrats are obsessed with the possible tampering with votes that Republicans might perpetrate. By contrast, they’re uninterested in Kerry leading among illegal aliens who voted, dead people who voted, etc. I’d guess that at best, if you discounted all of the Democrat votes that were illegally cast and added in all those that were electronically stolen, it would be a wash.
3. The idea of the Republicans, who are supposedly old Luddites, finagling computer fraud while the younger, more tech-savvy Democrats watch impotently, is a bit much, at least. I don’t believe it.
Aug 29, 2008 - 2:46 am 2. Tito:Ask anyone in Chicago and they will tell you that paper ballots always prevented voter fraud there.
Aug 29, 2008 - 2:48 am 3. Leeotis:The final CNN exit poll for the 2004 election nailed the popular vote outcome down to the final percentage point. The exit polls that showed Kerry with a lead were partial exit polls which were statistically skewed in Kerry’s favor because they overpolled women. Were I as much of a conspiracy theory lunatic as those who peddle the kind of nonsense which makes this movie, I might suggest that the early exit polls were an effort to skew the election in Kerry’s favor. But I am too mentally stable to make such a preposterous suggestion. Sometimes, stuff just happens, you know?
The 2004 election was close, but by American electoral standards, it was not remarkably close. We have had several elections as close or closer in the memories of many living Americans, such as 1960, 1968, 1976 and, of course, 2000. To “steal” an election in which the margin, while close, is genuinely decisive would require a conspiracy of national, genuinely elephantine scope. You would have to compromise the voting machinery of thousands of localities in dozens of states. It is inconceivable that something like that could be accomplished without there being anything but circumstantial evidence to support it.
Challenging the validity of any election that you lose seems to be the new liberal mantra – witness Mexico’s most recent election. On one level, it is nothing more than just sore losing. But on another level, it is far more insidious because it undermines the national fabric and causes some to question the very legitimacy of their government. Those who perpetuate such baloney should be ashamed of themselves.
Aug 29, 2008 - 3:51 am 4. Andrea Fuzzi:They have already got the ballots recounted:it’s terrific how empty is the dem rethoric,in spite of serious people’s concern about gas prices,terrorism,soldiers oversea and,last but not least,Our being able to deter Russian arrogance
Aug 29, 2008 - 4:39 am 5. Diane:“The idea of the Republicans, who are supposedly old Luddites, finagling computer fraud while the younger, more tech-savvy Democrats watch impotently, is a bit much.”
Yes. But it’s no different from the folks who insist on the one hand that Bush is an utter moron while on the other, they claim that he manipulated everything from the collapse of the WTC to intelligence on Iraq.
Aug 29, 2008 - 4:47 am 6. TomJW:Nice. The Dems are still running against Bush.
Aug 29, 2008 - 4:56 am 7. cwm:If I had of voted for Kerry in 2004 do you think I would have admitted that I was stupid to a pollster. When I do dumb or immoral things I do not advertise it but keep it to myself. I once confessed to voting for Jimmy Carter and was soon realized it was about how I felt instead of how I thought. Fortunately a conservative had compassion on me and showed me that idiots vote for idiots.
Aug 29, 2008 - 4:57 am 8. MaE:I voted for Bush, when asked, I claimed I voted for Kerry.
Exit polling anymore is a joke. It will be a joke this year as well. I will vote for McCain, but because of my skin color, I will be eviscerated for my choice, therefore, if asked again I will say I voted for Obama.
Aug 29, 2008 - 5:13 am 9. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: The Stealing of Elections
I think there is more concrete evidence of the Democrats and their supporters stealing votes than the opposite.
Heck, where I live we had a Democrat precinct chair complain that ‘progressive’ elements were going door to door in her neighborhood offering absent ballot request forms AND absentee ballots. And, as I recall, they were offering to fill in the forms and send them in for the people.
Then there are all the absentee ballots from our military personnel overseas that, as I heard, Democratic [what a misnomer] Clerks/Recorders refused to count for on reason or another; probably mostly because men and women with the courage to serve their country are probably Republicans in the first place. This, as opposed to the gutless wonders in that other party.
This movie, seems to me based on the information I’ve seen, is nothing but mere projection on the part of the Democrats.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -- Harry S. Truman (Democrat)]
P.S. If Harry were alive today, he’d switch parties….
Aug 29, 2008 - 5:30 am 10. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Exit Polls? As ‘Evidence’?
People actually believe ‘exit polls’? Sakes. I believe I’ve seen research that indicated that a large number of people lie to these pollsters just to make them look stupid. MaE seems to provide the proof of that.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. -- Benjamin Franklin]
P.S. Obviously none of these pollsters ever read Franklin. They just keep working harder at their ‘profession’.
Aug 29, 2008 - 5:39 am 11. WHAT WOULD TOTO WATCH? » ‘Stealing America’ - Does every vote count? ‘Stealing America’ - Does every vote count? — WHAT WOULD TOTO WATCH?:[...] review at Pajamas Media shares that ambivalence. The film does all it can to insist multiple elections were [...]
Aug 29, 2008 - 5:57 am 12. Paul From Hamburg:Chuck:
Aug 29, 2008 - 6:48 am 13. uburoi:Thanks for reminding everyone about military absentee ballots. In 2000, before anyone knew how close the race would be, before hanging chads, before the butterfly ballot, before anything else, the Democrats had a plan to challenge as many military absentee ballots as possible.
Keep in mind that a sizable percentage of our population cannot work a simple TV remote, or connect stereo speakers, or remember elementary driving protocols. A large percentage of Americans cannot fill out s simple form correctly if you asked them to. So why should I be surprised the same people cannot fill out a ballot without messing up? I’m willing to wager a surprising number of people who go to vote have no idea who they are even voting for, let alone why. The irregularities have rational explanations: a sizable portion of Democrat voters are morons or opportunists who cannot or will not support themselves, and who want the state to care for them. These citizens cannot accomplish tasks well. This includes most of the drug addicts, the feeble-minded, the mentally unstable, illiterates, the various Utopians, the elderly living off medicare and government services, Alzheimer’s patients, illegals, and people living under bridges.
Aug 29, 2008 - 6:52 am 14. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Good Point….
….I’d forgotten that there are reports circulating that these same ‘progressive’ elements were also canvasing old-folks homes.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 29, 2008 - 7:23 am 15. bobdog:There are those that are absolutely convinced that they were abducted by aliens, that there was indeed somebody on the grassy knoll, that the Illuminati (or the FreeMasons or the Jooz) control the international banking system, that guns kill people all by themselves, that unrestricted abortion is always morally right but the death penalty is always morally wrong, that Al Gore had the 2000 election stolen from him, or that John Kerry would have been a Great Prezident except for them evil Republicans. All but an infinitesimal fraction of these people are idiots who should not be allowed to drive.
Aug 29, 2008 - 7:25 am 16. Another View:I sent you guys a great link on this topic. But I think PJM is blocking it.
Aug 29, 2008 - 7:42 am 17. philo:After this year’s New Hampshire primary, several minor candidates’ supporters demanded (and got) recounts. Initially, they argued that the voting machines had been tampered with. The response: “This is New Hampshire. There are no voting machines in use in New Hampshire.”
I see nothing here that lends any support to the idea that there was voting fraud in favor of Republicans. That machines COULD be programmed to cheat doesn’t mean that they have been.
Aug 29, 2008 - 7:43 am 18. Rubicon:Generally speaking, I have faith in the American people. While they (including me unfortunately), have done some relatively stupid things, most of the time, we do “the right thing”, and we also seem to do it correctly.
Aug 29, 2008 - 7:48 am 19. Another View:That said, there surely is an element who does almost anything, wrong. But, before we move on, one must remember that those who do these things wrong, are Republicans AND Democrats. Assigning “blame” to just one party, would reflect the stupidity of the individual pushing such a position.
I am less worried about what happened in the 2000 &/or 2004 elections, than I am what will happen in the 2008 election. There is an element who has vowed they will “make sure their candidate wins this time.” Such means we have folks who are conspiring to “steal the election.”
In addition, the documented history of dead people voting, illegal aliens voting, people voting twice (or more often in some areas), & other unique voting scams, scares me more.
Lets face it, California voting has got to be one of the more vulnerable to cheating situations than any other state. If a few thousand or more than a few thousand illegal aliens are empowered to vote by some unscrupulous someone in a predominantly Latino or Hispanic district, such will cement the largest electoral college count in the nation.
If one looks at California, the cities will vote Obama. BUT, as one looks at the balance of the state, McCain wins in a majority of districts because the rest of the state is conservative.
So, lets watch who is voting and not how we are voting. I think there is where we will find the “stealing” taking place!
The recounts, by even the New York Times independent auditor, show that Bush won, albeit by small margins.
What about the voters who were kicked off the rolls? Then proved there legitimacy albeit to late.
Aug 29, 2008 - 8:26 am 20. Just Say No To FOX:Hello guys;
I respect your vote as I respect mine. There are a lot of stories about this topic. The more info the better. Check these out. “And remember just because you close your eyes doesn’t mean it’s not there”.
http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?filmid=234&id=1157&wh=1000×720
Aug 29, 2008 - 8:34 am 21. hey:Another
http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?filmid=107&id=795&wh=1000×720
Aug 29, 2008 - 8:41 am 22. GrannyD:If you want to see massive voter fraud, check out ACORN. They have been charged in at least two states already. I think something should be done about the organization, but I doubt it ever will be. By the way, they are paid by taxpayer money in some cases…
Aug 29, 2008 - 8:50 am 23. John:“But Stealing America has much more up its sleeve. The 2004 elections caused massive lines to form in some polling places, often in neighborhoods of predominantly black and minority voters. Some delays forced people to wait for hours in order to cast their vote.”
This item is always targeted at Ohio. Being a resident there, we may have access to some info that never seemed to make it out of the state. The electoral commissions (who are TOTALLY responsible for voting within their local communities) in Cleveland and Columbus are run by Democratic appointments.
Hmmmm. This conspiracy could get deeper.
Aug 29, 2008 - 9:01 am 24. J.J. Sefton:Here you go – let’s get the left to agree on a NATIONAL IDENTITY CARD. That way the evil “Republicans” and Joooooooz can’t steal the elections like they always do.
Yeah. Thought so.
Aug 29, 2008 - 9:36 am 25. Nan G:About MaE’s comment.
Aug 29, 2008 - 10:41 am 26. Mary in LA:I, too, met a black voter who admitted lying to exit pollsters.
We had a laugh about it.
As we walked home from the voting booth I said, it sounds like we cancelled each other out….he said, no, I just said that because it was on camera.
He had voted for bush (or at least that’s what he told me.)
I haven’t been polled often, but whenever it happens, I *always* lie. I feel absolutely no shame in doing so. How I cast my vote is nobody’s business but mine.
Aug 29, 2008 - 11:22 am 27. Fat Man:“Exit polling tends to be an accurate barometer, but in both the 2000 and 2004 elections that didn’t hold true.”
You have flunked Statistics 210, you will have to repeat it and achieve a grade of at least “C” before you can graduate.
FACT: Exit polling is a wildly inaccurate exercise in statistical media masturbation. It bears no more than a superficial resemblance to “scientific” polling, because its sampling mechanism is completely non random.
I could refute the rest of what you wrote, had I bothered to read it. I stopped reading when I got to the howler quoted above.
Aug 29, 2008 - 11:22 am 28. Chuck Pelto:TO: Another [Incorrect] View
RE: Are You Ignorant of….
….the concept of ‘provisional ballots’?
The distaff is an election judge in our county.
Anytime someone walks into a polling place and claims they should be on the rolls, they are given a ‘provisional’ ballot. Similar to a regular ballot in all the issues to be voted on for that polling place. However, additional information is required on their identity.
The provisional ballot, once fully completed is added to the other ballots turned into the County Clerk/Recorder.
There, they are examined against registration rolls as held by the County Clerk/Recorder and if they are correct that they should have been on the rolls, their vote is counted. However, if the County Clerk/Recorder cannot find any evidence that they are supposed to be on the rolls, their ballot is not included in the talley of votes.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 29, 2008 - 12:08 pm 29. Yvonne:I personally lied to pollsters because they irritate me. So did others I know. Exit polls are an easily confused joke!
Aug 29, 2008 - 12:34 pm 30. bpjam:No, there is nothing ‘bipartisan’ about what this documentary ‘exposes’. The entire mantra is partisan and pays ZERO attention to the millions of people who vote fraudulently – which far, far, far, far, far, far, far outnumbers any possible votes lost to errors in counting, computer problems or whatever the latest liberal conspiracy theory is.
The botttom line is: VOTE FRAUD ONLY HAPPENS IN COUNTIES AND CITIES WHERE DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE VOTES!!!!! PERIOD
Democrats don’t care about voter fraud anywhere that the GOP controls things. But they are quick to blame the GOP for somehow tricking DNC lifetimes members into screwing over black voters to prevent more liberals from getting elected.
Here is the simple test: 1. Name the last GOP candidate who claimed voters fraud. 2. Name the liberal group who rushed to investigate. (don’t worry, I’ll give you all the time you need….)
Aug 29, 2008 - 12:41 pm 31. David:Bull****. Just bull****. Tinfoil hat, 9/11 conspiracy style bull****. In other words, typical Democrat agitprop.
Aug 29, 2008 - 1:10 pm 32. The Wizard:Where do this left-wing nuts come up with this stuff??? Who pays for it? The Dems are always sore losers, whining, complaining and alledging voter fraud. Please, get a life and throw this crap in the dumpster where it belongs.
Aug 29, 2008 - 2:21 pm 33. Chuck Pelto:TO: The Wizard
RE: I Suspect….
….that the majority of them are children brought up by foolish parents who followed Dr. Spock’s advice on child rearing.
The perpetual whining reminds me of what I hear while standing in line at a grocery checkout from ill-mannered, undisciplined cry-babies begging for the candy strategically place there by the store’s marketing experts.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 29, 2008 - 2:53 pm 34. Tyler1984:P.S. Adults call in the Secretary of State’s Elections Division people to start taking names for criminal charges.
What will they say in the future about Obama’s ACORN organization, who has been found guilty of instigating voter-fraud in a dozen states, who used the identities of dead people, illegal immigrants and people who don’t even exist?
What does the film say regarding Kerry and Gore’s bribery of homeless people and illegal immigrants – providing food, water (alcohol) and shelter in order to convince them to be brought into the polls by the, literally, bus loads?
What does the film say regarding Kerry and Gore’s attempts to close the polls early, prior to receiving the ballots of servicemen and civilian Americans abroad?
What does the film say regarding voter intimidation of conservatives? – verbal and physical assaults, arson, vandalization, etc. so commonly perpetrated by typical low-brow, anti-intellectual, liberals, against humble, reserved conservatives?
Aug 29, 2008 - 3:02 pm 35. JaimeRoberto:You lost me at Peter Coyote.
Aug 29, 2008 - 4:30 pm 36. John Samford:“I sent you guys a great link on this topic. But I think PJM is blocking it.”
I’m sure they consider it an ad homiem attack. It seems anything other then groveling at Ohhhhhh…..BAAMA’s feet is an ad homiem attack.
Meanwhile, here is the REAL reason the far left goes down in flames every election cycle’
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_082508/content/01125110.guest.html
It seems year after year, election after election, about 60% of Americans identify themselves as Conservative to one degree or another. So until the Democrats take their party back from the rabid left, they will continue to get hammered at election time.
No matter how much lipstick they slather on that pig, the voters will look into those porcine eyes and recognize the beast.
This is liable to go on for a long time. The radical left refuses to look at the facts and when they get their nose rubbed in it, they cry ad homiem and refuse to open their eyes.
So if Big Mac and Sweet Sarah do a good job, Mrs Palin will be President in ‘12. She will be young enough to run in ‘16 and if she did a good job in her term, she will get reelected. Plus she will be able to groom the next President after her. So as long as the Democrats refuse to throw off the chains the Rabid left has put in them, we are looking at a LOOOONG run of Conservative Presidents. We can clean up Washington and restore the Constitution.
“The true conservative is the man who has a real concern for injustices and takes thought against the day of reckoning.”
Aug 29, 2008 - 5:44 pm 37. ic:Franklin D. Roosevelt, Speech in Syracuse, NY Sep. 29, 1936
32nd president of US (1882 – 1945)
Don’t credit incompetency with malice. The voting in those black neighborhoods with long lines were Democratic neigborhoods, elections were conducted by Democrats. May be the only problem was they haven’t stolen or created enough votes to tilt the election their way, like they did in the last Washington gubernatorial?
Aug 29, 2008 - 11:11 pm 38. BC:Yeah, well:
http://techdirt.com/articles/20080822/0352532064.shtml
Third world countries have better run elections….
Aug 30, 2008 - 6:30 am 39. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Hilarious Humor from BC
Just ask Mugabe.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 30, 2008 - 8:26 am 40. Assistant Village Idiot:[To preserve our independence... We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. -- Thomas Jefferson]
Several have mentioned, and I will simply add to the swell, that vulnerability is not the same as corruption. I am indeed concerned that elections could be manipulated technologically. But as the manipulations of elections in the old-fashioned way has been – demonstrably – by Democrats in 90% of the cases, I find it hard to conclude that it must be Republicans who are cheating, just because they won.
Aug 30, 2008 - 9:49 am 41. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: A Whole Lotta Projection Go’n On
With all this talk about how Bush ’stole’ the 2000 and 2004 elections, I’m beginning to wonder if the Dimocrats are building up their spirit of ‘justification’ to do EXACTLY that in 2008.
After all, most of these so-called ‘progressives’ think that the ends justify the means. This is compounded by how ACORN has been found to be doing voter fraud. Not to leave out the report I got from a local Democrat precinct chair who took umbrage at that sort of thing going on at the behest of the Democrats in my own town.
I think we had better be VERY MUCH on the lookout for this sort of contrivance. This is especially true since the Palin announcement. The Dimocrats are acting VERY panicky at this time and they could well, as the campaign grinds on become desperate enough to do EXACTLY what they are accusing the Republicans of having done….just to get back at them.
Especially if the McCain-Palin ticket gathers momentum….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 30, 2008 - 4:10 pm 42. Charie:[Character is always known. Thefts never enrich; alms never impoverish; murder will speak out of stone walls. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Liberal insanity must be catching. How else can these Republican “plots” be explained?
ACORN was in Wisconsin registering people and when it was found way too many of the registrants had no verifiable addresses, ACORN claimed they fired 35 of their people.
At the last election tires were slashed on SUVs that were to take Republican voters to the polls.
That same election a bunch of black Democrats invaded a Republican campaign office intimidating the mostly older staff by jumping up on desks and tables. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel printed a picture of them on the tables and the caption was (paraphrased) “Democrats come to ‘visit’ Republican campaign headquarters.”
Practically every news organization in the U.S. went to Florida on vote counting expeditions and they all came up clean.
Democrats are complainers and whiners. They blame their own absurd faults (ridiculous social attitudes and programs)on Republicans.
I have concluded that they are insane and it certainly must be a communicable disease.
I, however, am immune to it.
Aug 30, 2008 - 4:13 pm 43. Boyd:The entire article is written in the classic conspiracy style of the fallacy of explanation. Nothing can ever really be stated for certain and everything is very mysteriously vague because “they” are so good at what they do. No specific claims are made so there is no way to disprove it since a thoery cannot be tested when it makes no predictions. It is also untestable because it predicts events which might very well occur whether or not the theory were true. Did pajamas actually pay this guy to do this?
Aug 30, 2008 - 5:19 pm 44. Waller:Polling suffers from one huge weakness – there are people who vote who refuse to participate in polls. I know because I am one of them. I will consistently vote Republican so my vote will register. When asked in a poll, I will refuse to participate. That will be one Republican vote that will NEVER register in a poll.
Whether polling non-participants are predominently Democrat, Republican, or evenly divided cannot be known. Non-participants are merely excluded from polling data. This does not make them irrelevant, but polling practices make them so.
There are other problems with political polling in general. People lie to pollers for various reasons. Telephone polls require people to be home to participate. Exit polls in the morning may have a different demographic than those in the afternoon or in the evening.
Until poll participation becomes mandatory and and skewing factors can be completely identified, then polls will always be subject to errors. As previously pointed out by DavidN, polls are useful for watching trends and not much else. They should never be viewed as a perfect mirror of actual voting.
Aug 30, 2008 - 5:58 pm 45. BC:To (Up)Chuck Pelto: Just ask UN Election Observers:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Third_World_US/Demo_Observed_2004.html
The rinky dink way elections are run here should be cause for a lot more embarrassment and action than what has happen so far.
And to Waller: Good polling and analysis is suppose to factor in things like the demographics of willing responders as opposed to reluctant ones. This doesn’t mean that they do, but if the job is done correctly…
Aug 30, 2008 - 10:21 pm 46. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: More BC Logic
I wonder if he’s thinking about those UN people who are involved with slave-trafficking, drug-running and raping little girls. Or maybe they’re thinking of the ones who abandon a bunch of Muslims to be massacred in what used to be Yugoslavia.
Trust the UN? Yeah….Right…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Where do these people come from? And how did they get to be so 'dumb'?]
P.S. I blame the vaunted American public education system….AND the ‘teachers’ [what a misnomer] union.
Aug 31, 2008 - 5:13 am 47. Another View:Chuckles;
It has been proven That in 2000 Jeb B. and K.Harris pulled 57,000.00 legal voters off the registration rolls in Fl. Research it don’t just disagree. I know you guys will take a tainted victory. But it still was stolen.
Oh yeah, save the high school debate credentials for middleschoolers. You would have done better saying you were a Golf club pro or a semi pro ball player… Your a Joke! Close your eyes tighter the light is getting through.
Aug 31, 2008 - 6:39 am 48. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Another [specious] View
I wish these people would provide proofs of their allegations. At least in high school debate, one team can demand of another citation of the evidence they present and the other team is obliged, i.e., REQUIRED, to present it. Not so in this venue where characters like Another View spew things and never have to back them up with citations.
Typical Progressive ‘logic’; say something and never prove it.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 31, 2008 - 7:52 am 49. Chuck Pelto:[Progressive is a one-word oxymoron.]
TO: All
RE: ADDENDUM
I wonder who is willing to let them judge anything these aspiring young bright minds do. And WHAT if anything a golf pro has to do with logic, save the physics of spheroid flight, I wish they’d explain. Maybe something to do with simple arithmatic….
…as opposed to Global Thermonuclear War and the end of Life-as-We-Know-It.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[It's the end of the World;
As we know it.
And I feeeeel fiiiiiine. -- REM; after watching a Cross-X round where one side threw up the arg of Global Thermonuclear War]
P.S. Let’s see the Golf Pro discuss THAT!
Aug 31, 2008 - 8:01 am 50. pappy:when these dipocraps pull another propaganda film out of their ass, they’ll be crying because mac and miss sahra won the 2008 election.
Aug 31, 2008 - 9:22 am 51. Waller:BC,
You are right, of course, about GOOD polling practices. However, I wonder how can you make corrections about a group you know nothing about (ie, non-responders). Isn’t every supposition about them just speculation, since you cannot confirm with them whether your suppositions are correct? Just wondering.
As far as practicing good technique…I think that’s where the outright dishonesty of the media came into play in 2004. Even an layman like me understands that early voters are more likely to be people with fixed incomes, housewives, students, etc. These groups historically vote Democrat.
Even in the most objective polls, the skewing factors can only be educated guesses, adding to the imprecision. The media (and polling groups) took these numbers as gospel. I believe some pollers had their own Democratic agenda as well. The MSM latched on to those polls as it fit their agenda as well.
The key to giving the early lead to Democrats is the belief that it will discourage Republican voters (who think their vote won’t matter) and give momentum to the Democrats (many people just want to be on the winning team). I’m not saying these beliefs are universally true, but there is a perception. I think the MSM was trying to give every advantage to the Democrats no matter how unproven.
Also, by using dubious polling, the MSM has established a shadow of doubt about election tampering. Having established this doubt, watch them run with it in November. The NYT, AP, and the networks will cry foul if Obamasama doesn’t win this fall. And watch them bring up speculated (and unproven) abuse in 2004 as justification.
Aug 31, 2008 - 10:49 am 52. BC:To Waller: Personally I’m not thrilled with excessive media polling — besides sucking up media resources that should be use more responsibly, like for, oh say, investigative journalism, it makes me feel like I’m only juast watching some random very, slow marathon not really connected to picking the leader of the free world, although it is sort of appropriate this year given how *all* the early front runners, as in most marathons, fell to the back of the pack as the race worn on. But there is suppose to be some science behind it, and in theory it could be sort of a yeloowcheck if the election results are inexplicably wildly divergent from at least the more reputable polls.
Those of us who aren’t willfully clueless like Mr. Pelto have been very much aware of how messed up and primitive our national elections have been handled compared to other countries, including, yes, 3rd world ones. The “reforms” that were suppose to have been implemented after the 2000 election fiasco were handled just as embarrassingly bad, especially in the rush to use badly designed computer-based voting machines: http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-19-electronic-voting_N.htm
We seem to be stuck in a cycle of “can’t do” for so many things, and not just in running elections efficiently and accurately….
Aug 31, 2008 - 1:06 pm 53. Waller:BC, I’m sure the media will be able to free up some investigative resources to find photos of Sarah Palin in a bikini, or a pageant transcript where she spouts something about “promoting world peace and understanding” as her life goals.
After jumping on the newest hi-tech, the wonks are finally figuring out that the paper ballot was a solution in need of a problem. Thank goodness my state (Iowa) never went away from paper.
Change for the sake of change. It’s what conservatives can’t understand about liberals.
Aug 31, 2008 - 4:58 pm 54. Chuck Pelto:TO: Another [Specious] View
RE: Yeah?
Seems to me you trotted this one out in once before. Perhaps in another venue. And I asked you to prove it.
But….for some strange reason….YOU NEVER RESPONDED.
So I ask you AGAIN….
….show me your proof.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 1, 2008 - 7:48 am 55. Chuck Pelto:[Prevaricator, n., A liar in the larval form.]
Okay….
….it was in this forum and I appear to have asked you to provide the proof for a second time….
….not seeing any response from you to my earlier request, which is over 24-hours old.
Sep 1, 2008 - 7:49 am 56. Waller:Chuck,
Don’t hold your breath. Congrats, you chased the troll away. AV has no response because it never happened. Even the liberal MSM concluded no voter fraud in Florida. Only the tinfoil hats continue to regurgitate fairy tales ‘cuz they’re just too good to let go.
I had similar experience with a 9/11 Troofer the other day. He said a Bush official admitted that military jets were ordered to remain on the ground to allow the planes to do their damage. I called him on it. He went away.
The tinfoil crowd lacks any skepticism. If Bush did it, then it’s true. If you keep debunking their loony accusations they move on to less hostile venues to spout their delusions. Good job!
Sep 1, 2008 - 10:14 am 57. Chuck Pelto:TO: Waller
RE: Indeed
As Mark Twain put it….
Practice this wherever you encounter these cretins.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.]
P.S. It’s oh so easy just to speak up. Especially in THIS medium….
Sep 1, 2008 - 1:20 pm 58. Another View:Chucko, Waller;
I didn’t run anywhere. Well maybe to the bank to diversify.
I can’t make you think outside the box. But I will say you have the option to research the information objectively. Before you dismiss without objection, clearly arguable information. I gain nothing with an “I told you so”.
Now the allegations were made, evidence supported the allegations. Then a lawsuit was filled and heard. Not filled and dismissed for having no basis. Then there was a settlement against the sate of Florida.
With that said Fl was guilty.
In the months leading up to the November 2000 presidential election, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, in coordination with Governor Jeb Bush, ordered local election supervisors to purge 57,700 voters from the registries, supposedly ex-cons not allowed to vote in Florida. At least 90.2 percent of those on this “scrub” list, targeted to lose their civil rights, are innocent. Notably, more than half–about 54 percent–are black or Hispanic. You can argue all night about the number ultimately purged, but there’s no argument that this electoral racial pogrom ordered by Jeb Bush’s operatives gave the White House to his older brother.
Following the disclosure in December 2000 of the black voter purge in Britain’s Observer newspaper, NAACP lawyers sued the state. The civil rights group won a written promise from Governor Jeb and from Harris’s successor to return wrongly scrubbed citizens to the voter rolls. According to records given to the courts by ChoicePoint, the company that generated the computerized lists, the number of Floridians who were questionably tagged totals 91,000. Willie Steen is one of them. Recently, I caught up with Steen outside his office at a Tampa hospital.The state admitted Steen’s innocence. But a year after the NAACP won his case, Steen still couldn’t register. Why was he still under suspicion? What do we know about this “potential felon,” as Jeb called him?
What did A.Scalia have to lose by allowing a recount as The Fl Supreme Court ordered?
Answer. The election of G.W.Bush
The problem is not us “questioners of truth”. (The truth that you are fed from the five U.S. media outlets.) It’s the resistance we face from the people that wonder. “If a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound”? Of course it does. Please debunk this because I want to believe the electoral process in not a fraud. That’s all no partisanship. I really don’t think you can.
The real conservatives should be weary of the neocons. You do not share the same principles. It is a masquerade.
Conservative- less govt, nat. security, less spending, less borrowing,American values,Affordable healthcare
Neocon- more gov’t, Globalization, Corporatism,Borrow until they demand payment then war, Fundamentalist values, Totalitarianism,open trade boarders(less jobs, lower wages)
A great film for those not afraid to debunk
Sep 1, 2008 - 1:24 pm 59. Waller:http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?filmid=35&id=807&wh=1000×720
Why didn’t Scalia allow the recount to continue?
Because the period for recounting had elasped as per Florida law. Because gemeral recounts had already been conducted in the allotted time and showed Bush the winner. Because Al Gore only wanted to recount in four counties after recount cut-off date.
http://docs.justia.com/cases/supreme/531/98.swf
The Supreme ruled that this put higher weight on the voters in these four counties than the voters in the remaining Florida counties and violated the 14th Amendment. The ruling was strictly a decision concerning recount procedure.
It had nothing to do with purges, so no, Katherine Harris did not orchestrate the election vote/recount debacle. (Unless she knew prior to election day that the race would be down to a few hundred votes).
BTW Harris must be like Bush according to the tinfoils — stupid as a ninny but diabotically clever when convenient to conspiracy nuts.
The ruling does not mention or does it apply to the so-called “purged” voters from the registry. This is something that someone in your tinfoil community came up with later. You tinfoils like to muddy the waters by putting unrelated events in the same pot and creating fictious links.
Also, your un-enfranchised voter number is just wrong. No one in the real world thinks that 90% of the 57000 people purged were purged unlawfully. The number is guessed to be between 4000 and 8000 voters. No actual count was ever made. The purge lawsuit was settled out of court between NAACP and Florida. It had nothing to do with the Supreme Court ruling.
If you what to bring in hypothetical votes then we get to include overseas absentee ballots and those people who were told incorrect poll closing hours.
Sep 1, 2008 - 5:30 pm 60. Chuck Pelto:TO: Another View
RE: Heh
As the old saying goes….
Sep 2, 2008 - 8:38 am 61. Another View:Waller
Amendment Ten
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14
Section 1 made all persons born within the nation citizens both of the United States and of the states where they resided (thereby reversing Scott) and prohibited states from abridging privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States and from depriving persons of due process of law or equal protection of the laws. Section 2 reduced the representation of any state that deprived a part of its male population of the right to vote, an indirect attempt to protect the voting rights of blacks. Other sections protected the federal war debt, prohibited payment of the Confederate debt, and disabled from holding office those who had sworn to uphold the Constitution but who had engaged in rebellion. Section 5 empowered Congress “to enforce, by appropriate legislation.
With those understandings. It is clear that the 14th. was put in place to protect the citizens from abuse of state power. In this case the state ruled in the best interest of the people of Fl. Therefore the Supreme Court overreached the intended use of the 14th clearly. It is not intended to suppress voters as it was used here. That is precisely why it was the first ever ruling of it’s kind, and the exact reason after the court said it will not be used again or be used as legal precedent.
It is clear the court contradicted the intended use of this Amendment.
The Fl. court ruled for a state wide recount where deemed necessary. The four counties were the counties with the most irregularities,and were heavily democratic. Those counties raised doubts on accuracy based on polls and demographics coupled with voter protest.
As far as the absentee ballots went. Most people on the election board wanted to legally(as according to the law then an now on the books) disallow all votes postmarked after the required date(prior to opening). But K. Harris allowed all even some up to ten days late…Hmm
you said;
Also, your un-enfranchised voter number is just wrong. No one in the real world thinks that 90% of the 57000 people purged were purged unlawfully. The number is guessed to be between 4000 and 8000 voters. No actual count was ever made.
That is your bloated way of saying you never bothered to check.
Yes there were 57,000 legal voters purged. Here is a statement from a Fl. election official.-”Florida’s 2000 felon purge program resulted in over 50,000 legal voters being disenfranchised,” said Leon County elections supervisor Ion Sancho in a written statement. -You can email or contact this person if you must have the list in your hands. Do you want the truth?
Have you heard of polling? Of course they knew they were gonna lose that state or at the very least it was close.
And the “Pink Elephant” in the room. Just look at the conflicts of interest. No not conspiracy, plain and simple conflicts of interest.
Jeb head of fl elections board
K.Harris app. by Jeb
Jeb orders purge
K.Harris Stops recount before court orders it.
Supreme Court halts citing 14th.
I can pick apart the judges also. But that’s getting to partisan. And the use of the 14th show their loyalism . The point is The election was stolen. Not from the Dems but from the people. I will say it again the information is out there. But your not gonna find it in editorials. I am not trying to win an argument of opinion. These are facts.
I suggest you regroup with your high school debate coach.
Sep 2, 2008 - 9:15 am 62. Another View:Theatrics, Theatrics
The Washington post, NY times and others did a independent counts.
By Barry Grey
25 September 2001
A consortium of major American news organizations, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal, has decided to withhold the results of its recount of ballots cast in Florida in the 2000 presidential election. The consortium had planned to publish its report this week, and although its decision to suppress its own findings has received virtually no media attention, the reason is made clear in a September 23 column by New York Times Washington bureau chief Richard L. Berke.
In a column that enthusiastically welcomes the dissolution of all political opposition in Washington in the wake of the September 11 terror attacks, Berke writes: “Until September 11, the capital was riding a historically partisan period, with leading Democrats still portraying their president as ‘appointed’ by the Supreme Court. In a move that might have stoked the partisan tensions—but now seems utterly irrelevant—a consortium of new organizations, including The New York Times, had been scheduled this week to release the results of its ambitious undertaking to recount the Florida presidential ballots. (That has been put on hold indefinitely).”
In other words, the Times and its counterparts in the consortium have decided to conceal from the American people facts damaging to the Bush administration’s claims to political legitimacy. They are doing so for the express purpose of suppressing dissent and bolstering the president as he prepares to take the American people into war and makes sweeping attacks on their civil liberties.
The 2000 election demonstrated that within the American ruling elite, including both capitalist parties and the media establishment, there exists no significant constituency for the defense of democratic rights. The decision of the New York Times, the Washington Post, and other major news outlets to suppress the results of their Florida recount underscores this fact.
Now if there was nothing to hide. Why? You have to be a idiot not to question this.
Sep 2, 2008 - 9:43 am 63. Henry Gomez:The problem with all these conspiracy theories (besides the fact that most of them are based on hearsay evidence) is that the irregularities always seem to come in precincts and counties that are controlled by Democrats. The 2000 election is a perfect example. Theresa LePore, the elections supervisor in Palm Beach county that designed the infamous butterfly ballot was a Democrat. Same with Miriam Oliphant in Broward County and the Supervisor from Miami-Dade. So how is it that Republicans could tamper with elections equipment etc. in such Democratic strongholds?
The simple fact is that most voting errors are actually attributable to voter error. In 2000, failure to punch through correctly and remove the chads is a a voter’s responsibility, overvoting is another common voter error.
If someone pushes the Button for Kerry and the Bush button lights up why wouldn’t that person ask a poll worker for assistance? You have a right to start over. You have a right to ask for assistance. Not knowing your rights (like not knowing the law) is not an excuse. If you are going to exercise your right to vote then you have a duty to inform yourself on how to do it.
Sep 2, 2008 - 10:44 am 64. Another View:Henry;
Hanging chads are not the issue.
This is big boy conversation. I’m quite sure general mistakes happen. Proof of purged voters is not voter error. Using the 14th amendment as it was not intended and judicial double talk is no conspiracy. It’s criminal. The country could have waited to get the count correct. For gods sake it was the vote for president.
Sep 2, 2008 - 11:43 am 65. Another View:NAACP v. Katherine Harris et al. Class Action Voting Rights Lawsuit
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF COLORED PEOPLE, INC. by its FLORIDA STATE CONFERENCE OF BRANCHES, JIMMIE PANNELL, JULIA STONER, NATALIE CARNEGIE, ERMA J. KELLY, JOHN L. CHEEVER, JAMES MARSHALL, LILLIE Q. ODOM, WILLIE STEEN, WALLACE MCDONALD, JERMAINE TERRY, LORINE WALDEN, EMERY TIMBERLAKE, VALERIE BUFORD-WELLS, MICHELLE FLOYD, CONSUELO MARIA GRAHAM, SHERRY EDWARDS, KANDY WELLS, JOANNA CLARK, JANICE KELLY, PLACIDE DOSSOUS and RONDRICK ROSE in their own right and as representatives of all similarly situated citizens and residents of the State of Florida,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
KATHERINE HARRIS, Secretary of State of Florida; CLAY ROBERTS, Director of the Florida Division of Elections; DAVID C. LEAHY, Miami-Dade County Election Supervisor; MIRIAM OLIPHANT, Broward County Election Supervisor; JOHN STAFFORD, Duval County Election Supervisor; PAM IORIO, Hillsborough County Election Supervisor; ION SANCHO, Leon County Election Supervisor; WILLIAM COWLES, Orange County Election Supervisor and DEANIE LOWE, Volusia County Election Supervisor (all in their official capacities); and CHOICEPOINT, INC., a Georgia corporation d/b/a DATABASE TECHNOLOGIES INC.,
The link to the ruling
Sep 2, 2008 - 11:48 am 66. Chuck Pelto:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/11/politics/main263337.shtml
TO: Another View
RE: What the HELL is the Matter with YOU???!?!?
You never heard of a URL??!??!?!
For cry’n out loud. Why the heck should anyone pay ANY attention to a character that can’t use the brains God gave them to provide a URL to a source of information instead of providing anything that ANYONE could have fabricated out of their fourth-point-of-contact?
Sheesh….and people expect to be believed about something doing THIS s—.
Heck. I did a web-search on your first line and came up with NADA!
I have MORE IMPORTANT thinks to do in life than do YOUR research for you…..
Regards,
Chuck
Sep 2, 2008 - 12:48 pm 67. Chuck Pelto:P.S. And as for your ‘citations….
…where the HELL is the bloody case number!!!??!??!
Sakes. These cretins think we’re supposed to do ALL their work FOR THEM!!!!!
Sep 2, 2008 - 12:49 pm 68. Chuck Pelto:P.P.S. I notice that you didn’t bother to mention the determinations and outcome of the case.
Why IS that?
Sep 2, 2008 - 12:50 pm 69. Chuck Pelto:P.P.S. What was the FINAL outcome of the case?
Your linked article just said that the case was allowed to continue despite an objection from then Florida SecState Harris.
Why are you being so evasive here, bucke?
Sep 2, 2008 - 12:52 pm 70. Another View:Chuck;
You see I used your name. You earned my respect. But for your comedic act.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
Case No. 01-CIV-120-GOLD
Now you are correct I did give the wrong link. I apologize. I gave you a link to a article about the issue. Here is another.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/politics/main520754.shtml
Again Chuck you can do your own research. The information is out there.I gave you names you can contact them if you really want. Your plausible dependability attitude lets me know Your not interested in the Truth.
There is nothing I said that can’t be substantiated. I am not gonna feed and burp you. I know the world we live in. Do you?
Sep 2, 2008 - 4:55 pm 71. Another View:I just linked to your site Chuckles(your chuckles again). I hope the business venture works out.
It’s all become abundantly clear. Your just a blind and dumb Loyalist. “Polly want a cracker?” You Stupid parrot!
Sep 2, 2008 - 5:06 pm 72. Another View:deniability
Sep 2, 2008 - 5:09 pm 73. Jack Okie:Another View:
Did they leave the gate open or did you come over the wall?
Sep 2, 2008 - 8:41 pm 74. Jack Okie:Forbearance, thy name is Chuck!
Sep 2, 2008 - 8:47 pm 75. Another View:Jokie;
They left the gate open… lol.. All seriousness. This must turn your worlds and beliefs upside down. Do your own research and prove me wrong. You will soon realize you cannot.
I feel like Hulk Hogan slapping three midget wrestlers around. Tedious and tiring but necessary.
Your buddy Chuckles is a artist with words. Too bad it’s visual not literal. That equates to adult finger painting. I will buy him a etch a sketch to keep him entertained.
Sep 3, 2008 - 3:42 am 76. Chuck Pelto:TO: Another View
RE: [OT] So What….
I need your ‘respect’ like I need an ulcer.
RE: The Lawsuit
So, the lawsuit was settled YESTERDAY. Interesting.
I look forward to your providing the nature of the ‘agreement’; when it FINALLY becomes public information. The point here being that it’s an ‘agreement’. It isn’t a finding of the court that someone did something wrong.
The import of an ‘agreement’ depends largely on the verbiage therein and we don’t have that just yet.
RE: Research
Where I come from, i.e., a scientific background in education, fortified with a strong background in logic vis-a-vis 27 years in the infantry, if you want to prove something to someone, you go out and bring the information necessary to prove it to their attention.
You did that well with the latest link.
I look forward to your providing me with a link to the text of this agreement mentioned therein.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 3, 2008 - 7:33 am 77. Chuck Pelto:[Figures don't lie, but liars figure. Or obfuscate.]
P.S. Wanna make me ‘happy’?
Upgrade my Adobe Creative Suite…..Macintosh OS X.
Sep 3, 2008 - 7:35 am 78. Another View:Chuck;
I hope after today you realize who has been lying to you. Keep in mind. I guarantee you research any case in modern history, any you like. You will find easily the all the information you desire. Notice how hard it is to find much if anything on this. They should broadcast no wrongdoing. FOX would be all over it.
There is no judge that would have heard this case if it had no merit. It got no media attention. Also you must remember. What do you think is gonna happen to the people who gave the White House to Bush? Nothing. He can’t be impeached even today.
Remember it’s only about the truth… Now you can start to count the sheep.
Here are your links
http://www.buttersquash.net/archives/naacp-docket-w-docs.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/politics/main520754.shtml
Sep 3, 2008 - 12:28 pm 79. Chuck Pelto:TO: Another View
RE: New Items
The first is dated 2003, i.e., not particularly germane to the agreement.
The latter is NOT the agreement. It’s just a rehash of what you provided earlier, i.e., no news.
Are you trying to apply the Big Lie technique to me? It won’t work. I know better.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 3, 2008 - 3:36 pm 80. Another View:P.S. Is Another View a graduate of the Goebbel’s School of Journalism?
Chuck;
I gave you the entire case. Is does not take Sherlock Holmes to understand what happened.
Funny your concerned about me lying. You should vigorously investigate this case. Hell contact K.Harris office and just ask. There are plenty of contacts in the information I gave you.
Sep 4, 2008 - 2:00 am 81. Chuck Pelto:TO: Another View
RE: Problems with English?
The ‘case’ is not what’s the most important part. The most important part is the ‘outcome’.
You pointed to an article that said there was an ‘agreement’ between the plaintiff and the respondent.
[1] We have not seen that agreement yet.
[2] Because there was no ruling, other than the possible acceptance of the agreement by the court hearing the case, there was no one found to be at fault, as far as we can tell at this point.
Apparently it does, in your case. You’re obviously jumping to a conclusion, which is all too typical.
Talk to me when you find the text of the agreement and evidence showing that the court has accepted the agreement. Otherwise, live with your delusions.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Sep 4, 2008 - 6:06 am 82. Another View:[There is nothing to which some men will not stoop in order to avoid having to think. Let alone face reality.]
Chuck(le)
[There is nothing to which some men will not stoop in order to avoid having to think. Let alone face reality.]
DITTO;
Sep 5, 2008 - 4:14 pm 83. How to steal an election | How To Fix America!:[...] to steal an election If you, like many people do, believe that Bush stole the 2004 election then you are going to LOVE [...]
Sep 9, 2008 - 11:35 am 84. Movies I’d love to see … but never will — WHAT WOULD TOTO WATCH?:[...] America: Acorn Edition” – Ripped from the headlines, this docu-sequel examines the corrosive effect the Acorn nonprofit group had on the 2008 presidential election. [...]
Oct 16, 2008 - 4:42 pm