Do you want to start a list of things that Americans did (or did not do) but no one can prove? No. Because there’s no point in arguing about them (even if they include rape and murder) if nothing can ever be proven.

So, if you can’t prove anything, I think the obvious thing to do is to bitch about it incessantly over online blogs that do not matter.

Good job Americans. Why don’t you go work on not destroying the world’s economy, instead of bitching about whether someone has baby teeth.

Learn the difference between unable to disapprove and will not disapprove.

Chinese athletes’ bodies do not grow much; American people’s brains in general do not grow at all.

I hate to admit this, but I had assumed that you were of Chinese descent, like you said. Partly it was because Edward is a fairly common Chinese-English name, and partly because you were defending the Chinese team. But I guess you just connected with those performers and were proud of how well they performed. You certainly have powers of empathy.

I’ve been to China a few times, and worked with a Chinese-American church in New Jersey, and the Chinese and Chinese-American kids I’ve met have all just been really fantastic and sweet kids. I find a lot of corrupting influences in American youth culture, but these kids were mostly free of those things.

Anyway, it doesn’t look like the medals will be taken away, and I’m sure these Chinese girls have very good things ahead of them. I checked some of the Chinese news websites, and none of them have mentioned the controversy. Most of China probably has no idea about it–and even if they do, they’ll certainly side with the girls (if San Franciscans can rally around Barry Bonds, surely one of the least likeable personalities in sports, then I’m sure the Chinese will rally around these very cute and sweet and hard-working girls). So I think you can be comfortable in your hope that as they sail forward into their lives in the future, far beyond our view, they will be sailing to welcoming shores.

All the best, Tim

Your are RIGHT. Though I have never competed in a Gymnastic event I do compete in a sport at a professional level. My sport is Bowling, and regardless of the sport CHEATING is wrong. I do imagine that if I had worked hard over a 50 game tournament and I missed the finals by one spot because another bowler had falsified his score and ended up beating me, I would be in a pretty bad mood as well.

In this case my compassion for the feelings of these young ladies has clouded my better judgement. My “auto-defense mechanism” kicked in because all I was reading about was how horrible the chinese are and how bad the girls are not only on this board but on several different blog’s regarding this subject. There was only so much of the “pretty american girls” and the “ugly cheating chinese girls” that I could take, so I was willing to go to WAR on their behalf.

Ultimately Timothy, Your are right, Cheating should not be rewarded and if the medals are taken away from the Chinese girls, then I guess that is the RIGHT thing to do to send a message to their government that this sort of thing will not be tolerated.

I have no real problem with the American girls, they competed fairly, although I did tend to notice that they “pouted” and “frowned” a bit, Maybe the camera was on them at in-opertune moments. And sure, it does not real matter that I thought the Chinese girls were “cuter”, that is just my opinion.

The funny thing is after all this, one would think that I must be Chinese.

WHY would your average white guy from San Diego, CA care so much about the feelings of young Chinese girls he has never met???

Wish I had the answer to.

You’re certainly right that the FIG should have taken care of the matter in advance–and probably the Americans should have made sure that they did so. I don’t know what went on behind the scenes. Perhaps the Americans raised the issue, but the FIG was not willing to pursue it. Perhaps they did not raise the issue in the way they should have.

I think you should consider the consequences of your recommendation, though. It amounts to, ‘As long as we don’t catch you cheating beforehand, we’re not going to take the medal away from you afterward, even if we discover that you were cheating.’ If this were the policy, then teams could try to cheat, and wait and see whether the FIG would catch them; if the FIG stopped them, then they would pick different athletes who are over 16; if the FIG did not stop them, then they would field their underage athletes.

Ultimately, if the medal is taken away, it is the fault of the national team that decided to cheat in the first place–not the fault of the officials who run the sport or of the other teams who complained. If one cheats, one does not have the right to complain that you were not caught early enough.

Anyway, I think you can breathe easy, because I cannot imagine that the FIG really wants to get to the bottom of this, or that there will be sufficient proof that they were underage. So I think the Chinese girls will keep their medals. The girls did a fantastic job, and they seem really sweet. I really did not blame them at all; I blamed the coaches and administrators who decided to falsify papers and put underage girls in danger, and in general the oppressive sporting culture in China, ahead of these Games, that has been so determined to win medals that they have been willing to bend the rules. I only wonder what other rules were bent in other sports.

I love Chinese culture and the Chinese people–but I despise the government that constrains their freedom. I was hoping that this would not be a huge PR victory for the communist party, but I wanted the Games to reflect well on the Chinese people. Mostly it has.

I respect your opinion and your well thought-out response. Yours is the best arguement i had read against my point of view and I really appreciate you taking the time to write it out. It is certainly more compelling to me than just reading everyone cry “CHEATERS, CHEATERS, CHEATERS”

I completely respect your opinion Timothy, I do however disagree.

My arguement is this,

If I were the governing body for an event as big as the olympics, i would make damn sure that all of my contestants had checked out prior to BEGINNING their events in terms of age. Age is not like a drug test. you do not check for age before and after the events to see if everyone passes. You get it right before the events begin.

If they had done that then we would not be going through this BS right now, Good Luck to the person that has to go up to little Miss Deng Linlin and say ” Give me that Gold Medal back little girl, You are a cheater ” and have to see the look on her little brokenhearted face.

Perhaps i am being a tad one-side in my point of view. That is because the Chinese team have endeared themselves to my heart and i do feel compelled to protect the feeling’s of those little girls. I see them being attacked in all of this, and that does not sit well with me.

Thank you again for taking the time to write-out your point of view. It does mean a lot to me.

Edward

Edward, they were allowed to begin the competition because the FIG was unwilling to stand up against China, the organizers of the games. The reason it became a bigger issue after the competition began is (1) the world was able to take a look at these girls, who are obviously, obviously not sixteen, and (2) more evidence came to light. It’s not that hard to understand. Does the fact that they won have anything to do with it? It probably brought more attention on them, and made more journalists take a closer look. But you’ve got to remember that this is the first time the international media (by and large, excepting the NYT report months earlier) got to take a look at these girls.

I know that it can be difficult for westerners to gauge the ages of Asian women; my wife is Chinese, and I’ve spent all my life in Asian-Am communities. These girls were not sixteen. According to the Sports Illustrated reporter, the Chinese media (by their own admission) know that these girls are around 14, but they can say nothing for fear of losing their jobs or worse.

Ultimately, Edward, the Chinese gymnasts performed exceptionally well, and it’s not their fault. It is the fault of the governing body, and of a China so desperate to prove themselves on the international stage that they would stop at nothing. But putting these girls at risk, betraying every other team in the arena by not playing by the agreed-upon rules, and betraying the spirit of fair competition–absolutely the golds should be taken away.

Also, Edward, if the medals are taken away, the Chinese girls will probably become even more beloved as a result. They’re not going to become coal miners. The country will rally around them, I’m sure. And the US girls have behaved perfectly well. Were they sad they lost? Of course they were. But the way you’ve attacked them is unfair, when they’ve been nothing but gracious and complimentary toward the Chinese.

Ultimately nothing’s going to happen, because the FIG and IOC are spineless and China would throw the biggest hissy fit you’ve ever seen. They don’t want to know the answer. But we all know the answer. They cheated; they excelled especially on the bars, where a smaller body is a *huge* advantage; and all the other girls in that arena who had trained all their lives deserved an even field of play.

This should be my last entry as i am pretty sure this web page will be down every soon, this issue seems to be losing some steam.

As i have consided to my new buddy Steve, the Chinese Womans/Girls Gymnastics Team has infact CHEATED. CHEATING is wrong and should not be rewarded. Fine, well let’s lock-up the little rule breakers in some work camp near outer Mongolia. There they can mine for coal or perhaps some other natural resources that will help keep all of our lightbulb’s running or keep us warm and comfortable during our harsh winter season.

And by all means, let’s give the Gold Medal’s back to their rightful owners, The Heroic US team, who I promise you cares more about their pending endorsment deals than actually winning gold. I would have loved to have seen their pouting , sulking , moping faces on my next box of “Wheaties”, but i guess they would have needed to actually win the gold for that, and they didn’t. And THAT is truely what this is all about.

Anyone who actually think’s it would be “OK” to take away the Gold Medal’s that the Chinese Team EARNED after they were allowed to begin the competion in the first place is very unrealistic.

No-one has bothered to address my point in all of this, W H Y ???????? were they allowed to begin competing if there were questions about their ages in the first place. To let them get all the away through the competion, have them WIN it, and only then start-up with this ” Gee, does’nt she look kind of young ” business, is just IDIOTIC.

You know, had the US team actually beatin the Chinese Team than none of this would have been an issue, Corporate America would have been content, money would have been made, and everyone would have been Happy. But i guess we can’t sell as many boxes of Wheaties with young beautiful smiling chinese faces on the cover now can we???

I know in my heart I am RIGHT on this issue, but I welcome your opinions.