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	<title>Comments on: Detroit&#8217;s Downturn: It&#8217;s the Productivity, Stupid</title>
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		<title>By: osagi</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-191180</link>
		<dc:creator>osagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 03:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-191180</guid>
		<description>I think we are now living in an interesting times. Nice to hear that the congress are making ways to improve fuel-economy standards most especially to car enthusiasts. Btw, how about the oil demands?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are now living in an interesting times. Nice to hear that the congress are making ways to improve fuel-economy standards most especially to car enthusiasts. Btw, how about the oil demands?</p>
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		<title>By: Narby</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-178065</link>
		<dc:creator>Narby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-178065</guid>
		<description>Plant work rules clearly affect productivity in the auto industry. However, it&#039;s not fair to put the blame for them entirely on the UAW because many of the most troublesome rules originated long before the industry was unionized out of the now largely discredited theories of Frederick Taylor--the proliferation of narrow job classifications composed repetitive assignments quickly learned by uneducated employees. These and other concepts did not originate with the UAW, but were incorporated in union agreements when the plants were unionized, BY AGREEMENT with management. These wage agreements and many other work rules have accumulated over 60 years and are very hard to change. Since the 1980s the company and union have recognized the need for change and cooperated to change the plant rules and culture. That was why Saturn was formed in the early 1980s. NUMMI also was used as a model for change in GM plants. Plant managers and union leaders spent time together at NUMMI to see for themselves how the Toyota production system worked, and how the number of grievances were kept down close to zero through better communications and mutual respect between UAW representatives and NUMMI managers.

The transplants were able to start with a clean slate in new plants and with policies which reflected new behavioral science concepts and policies advocated by W. Edwards Deming, e.g., very few job classifications (two production classifications: Team Member and Team Leader, and two skilled trades classifications: mechanical maintenance and electrical maintenance whereas, a typical big three plant had multiple production and skilled trades job classifications which resulted in many disputes, problems and inefficiencies.) The UAW and the auto companies have cooperated to eliminate many of these problems through &quot;modern operating agreements&quot; which permit more efficient production and maintenance. A number of Big Three plants equal or exceed productivity in the Japanese transplants. 

From my experience in GM, the UAW deserves criticism for letting the local negotiations process get out of control when Leonard Woodcock was President and Irving Bluestone VP of the GM department. Local unions, instead of making good faith efforts to settle grievances on their merits saved them up to be bargained wholesale under the gun of a local strike deadline. This put tremendous pressure on management to concede to extreme demands at key parts plants or assembly plants for models in short supply. This process spread from triennial contract negotiations to strike authorizations during the contract over allegedly unreasonable production standards or health and safety hazards. The UAW damaged plant efficiency in many GM plants by sujecting them to the pressure of 5-day strike authorization notices. And GM management failed to develop an effective policy to deal with this problem. Instead of insisting that grievances be dealt with in the regular grienvance and arbitration procedure on their merits, out of short-run sales and profits considerations, management succumbed to countless unreasonable grievance settlements and unwise agreements on local work rules. Unravelling the accumulated mess cannot be accomplished by the stroke of a pen by the national parties. A long and arduous process is required. 

At the national negotiations level mistakes were made as well. In my estimation the worst was the infamous &quot;Jobs Bank&quot; agreement negotiated by Alfred S. Warren, with the approval of Roger Smith, with Owen Bieber. Instead of telling the UAW that it was impossible to guarantee lifetime income security in a collective bargaining agreement; that job security could be achieved only by making attractive products and selling them at affordable prices; and this was especially true in view of the unprecedented international competition facing the company. GM didn&#039;t tell the union that. Instead the company, at a time the need to downsize was forseeable, made an agreement that greatly increased the cost of downsizing. This 1982 agreement should have gotten a Darwin award for the worst agreement in the history of collective bargaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plant work rules clearly affect productivity in the auto industry. However, it&#8217;s not fair to put the blame for them entirely on the UAW because many of the most troublesome rules originated long before the industry was unionized out of the now largely discredited theories of Frederick Taylor&#8211;the proliferation of narrow job classifications composed repetitive assignments quickly learned by uneducated employees. These and other concepts did not originate with the UAW, but were incorporated in union agreements when the plants were unionized, BY AGREEMENT with management. These wage agreements and many other work rules have accumulated over 60 years and are very hard to change. Since the 1980s the company and union have recognized the need for change and cooperated to change the plant rules and culture. That was why Saturn was formed in the early 1980s. NUMMI also was used as a model for change in GM plants. Plant managers and union leaders spent time together at NUMMI to see for themselves how the Toyota production system worked, and how the number of grievances were kept down close to zero through better communications and mutual respect between UAW representatives and NUMMI managers.</p>
<p>The transplants were able to start with a clean slate in new plants and with policies which reflected new behavioral science concepts and policies advocated by W. Edwards Deming, e.g., very few job classifications (two production classifications: Team Member and Team Leader, and two skilled trades classifications: mechanical maintenance and electrical maintenance whereas, a typical big three plant had multiple production and skilled trades job classifications which resulted in many disputes, problems and inefficiencies.) The UAW and the auto companies have cooperated to eliminate many of these problems through &#8220;modern operating agreements&#8221; which permit more efficient production and maintenance. A number of Big Three plants equal or exceed productivity in the Japanese transplants. </p>
<p>From my experience in GM, the UAW deserves criticism for letting the local negotiations process get out of control when Leonard Woodcock was President and Irving Bluestone VP of the GM department. Local unions, instead of making good faith efforts to settle grievances on their merits saved them up to be bargained wholesale under the gun of a local strike deadline. This put tremendous pressure on management to concede to extreme demands at key parts plants or assembly plants for models in short supply. This process spread from triennial contract negotiations to strike authorizations during the contract over allegedly unreasonable production standards or health and safety hazards. The UAW damaged plant efficiency in many GM plants by sujecting them to the pressure of 5-day strike authorization notices. And GM management failed to develop an effective policy to deal with this problem. Instead of insisting that grievances be dealt with in the regular grienvance and arbitration procedure on their merits, out of short-run sales and profits considerations, management succumbed to countless unreasonable grievance settlements and unwise agreements on local work rules. Unravelling the accumulated mess cannot be accomplished by the stroke of a pen by the national parties. A long and arduous process is required. </p>
<p>At the national negotiations level mistakes were made as well. In my estimation the worst was the infamous &#8220;Jobs Bank&#8221; agreement negotiated by Alfred S. Warren, with the approval of Roger Smith, with Owen Bieber. Instead of telling the UAW that it was impossible to guarantee lifetime income security in a collective bargaining agreement; that job security could be achieved only by making attractive products and selling them at affordable prices; and this was especially true in view of the unprecedented international competition facing the company. GM didn&#8217;t tell the union that. Instead the company, at a time the need to downsize was forseeable, made an agreement that greatly increased the cost of downsizing. This 1982 agreement should have gotten a Darwin award for the worst agreement in the history of collective bargaining.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-178059</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-178059</guid>
		<description>You know, I work for Intel, where I am certainly not a union employee and where my work is at a far higher skill level and where I am surrounded by far more intelligent and educated individuals...and I can still cite plenty of instances that are similar to the ones listed by the author of this piece, and I can cite just as many obstructions to productivity by useless bureaucracy, redundancy in labor and needless division of labor that easily cost my company hundreds of millions of dollars (if not more) a year. I think the things you will find that Intel and the Detroit Three have in common is that they are all work big companies with an upper management that is very disconnected from its labor and its process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I work for Intel, where I am certainly not a union employee and where my work is at a far higher skill level and where I am surrounded by far more intelligent and educated individuals&#8230;and I can still cite plenty of instances that are similar to the ones listed by the author of this piece, and I can cite just as many obstructions to productivity by useless bureaucracy, redundancy in labor and needless division of labor that easily cost my company hundreds of millions of dollars (if not more) a year. I think the things you will find that Intel and the Detroit Three have in common is that they are all work big companies with an upper management that is very disconnected from its labor and its process.</p>
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		<title>By: Theater Rat</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176692</link>
		<dc:creator>Theater Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176692</guid>
		<description>Union rules! Ha ! 
 I’ll bet very few people have any insight into the STAGE HAND’S union.

Don’t get me started. Anyway, nobody would  believe me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Union rules! Ha !<br />
 I’ll bet very few people have any insight into the STAGE HAND’S union.</p>
<p>Don’t get me started. Anyway, nobody would  believe me.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Bill</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176688</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176688</guid>
		<description>Obama has stated he is a UNION SUPPORTER. Enough said, Not really, but would it make any difference what I think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama has stated he is a UNION SUPPORTER. Enough said, Not really, but would it make any difference what I think?</p>
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		<title>By: Labor Expert</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176551</link>
		<dc:creator>Labor Expert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176551</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll spare everybody the 5 paragraph dissertation. The UAW is a Dinosaur. Their time has passed and the only way the American auto industry will ever survive is if they are ejected. All thier horrible attitudes and all their Union bosses who are former workers have to go. It&#039;s really that simple. You&#039;ll see lines a mile long with people lined up to do the same jobs for half the pay and benefits, and none of the attitudes. Chapter 11 is inevitable. I say extract the Cancer now and save the working taxpayers Billions of $$$. If that hurts the foreign suppliers who make parts for the cars, TOO BAD. And for all the UAW people? Have fun at Walmart making $8 an hour and getting a coffee mug made in China for your Xmas bonus. You will soon find out what your actual skill level pays in the real world. Hope you saved some of that $$$$....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll spare everybody the 5 paragraph dissertation. The UAW is a Dinosaur. Their time has passed and the only way the American auto industry will ever survive is if they are ejected. All thier horrible attitudes and all their Union bosses who are former workers have to go. It&#8217;s really that simple. You&#8217;ll see lines a mile long with people lined up to do the same jobs for half the pay and benefits, and none of the attitudes. Chapter 11 is inevitable. I say extract the Cancer now and save the working taxpayers Billions of $$$. If that hurts the foreign suppliers who make parts for the cars, TOO BAD. And for all the UAW people? Have fun at Walmart making $8 an hour and getting a coffee mug made in China for your Xmas bonus. You will soon find out what your actual skill level pays in the real world. Hope you saved some of that $$$$&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Blanchard</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176520</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Blanchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176520</guid>
		<description>Great that you had an auto workering experience, but you left out who let you go or did you just leave the job because you felt so superior watching human beings work at labourous jobs while you stood judgement over them. But I don&#039;t see the credentials that make you an expert on the subject of comparrison with UAW workers to all other workers in the American workplace. The GM cars have won awards for the best made vehicles in the world. The Power&#039;s award? How do you think that happened if there is no quality and excellant productivity at thier plants? The truth is that there is so much jealousy out there against the UAW because in the Auto plants there are thousands of disillusioned people working the lines with degrees in everything from soup to nuts, who can&#039;t find a job in the American workplace. You have to have a scapegoat, someone to blame the current American job market failures on, so why not the Union workers. It could not be that you let your politicians take money under the table to look the other way as they sent all the white collar jobs to places like India,and build plants here that hire illegals and send the money offshore instead of investing it in America, so that your degree is worthless over in this country. Don&#039;t need an engineer here darlin cause the job is overseas, and Big Money has replaced even the most skilled American Job Seeker with a foreign counterpart. Then who let all the Kia&#039;s and Toyota&#039;s and Honda&#039;s Corporations rape our country with &quot;No Taxes Paid&quot; specials on thier products. Are we so living in denial that we can&#039;t see the Trade Deficit in this country? The saddest thing of all is the time passing while so many wage a fight against the middle class who hangs on, using the UAW as the brand name, the people who ran off with everyones money on Wall Street and in Washington are laughing thier hind ends off, as months are passing and evidence is destroyed as we open our 401K statements and scratch our heads. The UAW did not take your money, the so called corporate legals ripped us off and continue to by having our money go to thier banks and charge us 28% interest to charge our gasoline and utility bills, and the like. I know this is complicated for some like the above author, but for the sake of survival,I would rather spend my time trying to correct wrongs of the current system that allowed the rape and pillage of our counties wealth &amp; Jobs, than begrudge a UAW worker for having an extra bathroom break. Of course the biggest thing we can&#039;t correct is why some people are so Anti American that they would buy a Kia or a BMW if it put thier Mother out of a job, just because they are making a statement of freedom to be an idiot. As the bumper sticker says. &quot;Buying foreign today? Have you lost your job yet&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great that you had an auto workering experience, but you left out who let you go or did you just leave the job because you felt so superior watching human beings work at labourous jobs while you stood judgement over them. But I don&#8217;t see the credentials that make you an expert on the subject of comparrison with UAW workers to all other workers in the American workplace. The GM cars have won awards for the best made vehicles in the world. The Power&#8217;s award? How do you think that happened if there is no quality and excellant productivity at thier plants? The truth is that there is so much jealousy out there against the UAW because in the Auto plants there are thousands of disillusioned people working the lines with degrees in everything from soup to nuts, who can&#8217;t find a job in the American workplace. You have to have a scapegoat, someone to blame the current American job market failures on, so why not the Union workers. It could not be that you let your politicians take money under the table to look the other way as they sent all the white collar jobs to places like India,and build plants here that hire illegals and send the money offshore instead of investing it in America, so that your degree is worthless over in this country. Don&#8217;t need an engineer here darlin cause the job is overseas, and Big Money has replaced even the most skilled American Job Seeker with a foreign counterpart. Then who let all the Kia&#8217;s and Toyota&#8217;s and Honda&#8217;s Corporations rape our country with &#8220;No Taxes Paid&#8221; specials on thier products. Are we so living in denial that we can&#8217;t see the Trade Deficit in this country? The saddest thing of all is the time passing while so many wage a fight against the middle class who hangs on, using the UAW as the brand name, the people who ran off with everyones money on Wall Street and in Washington are laughing thier hind ends off, as months are passing and evidence is destroyed as we open our 401K statements and scratch our heads. The UAW did not take your money, the so called corporate legals ripped us off and continue to by having our money go to thier banks and charge us 28% interest to charge our gasoline and utility bills, and the like. I know this is complicated for some like the above author, but for the sake of survival,I would rather spend my time trying to correct wrongs of the current system that allowed the rape and pillage of our counties wealth &amp; Jobs, than begrudge a UAW worker for having an extra bathroom break. Of course the biggest thing we can&#8217;t correct is why some people are so Anti American that they would buy a Kia or a BMW if it put thier Mother out of a job, just because they are making a statement of freedom to be an idiot. As the bumper sticker says. &#8220;Buying foreign today? Have you lost your job yet&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176434</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176434</guid>
		<description>After reading all the above comments and learning that GM is receiving their first check today, which they have stated there will be no cost saving negoiations with the union, creditors and others; I&#039;m going out and buying a KIA.  
Adios BIG 3!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading all the above comments and learning that GM is receiving their first check today, which they have stated there will be no cost saving negoiations with the union, creditors and others; I&#8217;m going out and buying a KIA.<br />
Adios BIG 3!</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176335</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176335</guid>
		<description>Herb, the market did/does not value autoworker labor at its current prices, and, yes, management deliberately overpaid their labor force. But it wasn’t due merely to strong-arm tactics by the UAW. The Big 3 had a frickin’ monopoly--or, more accurately, an oligopoly. In the 1950s, they controlled 90% of the market; they had no real competition. They could control output and prices. This type of situation benefits the producers (i.e., producer surplus)--and management and labor often squabble about divvying up the rewards. That’s where the outlandish labor contracts came in. The industry could pass the cost of it on to the consumer. But then came globalization, which facilitates international trade and, also, competition. The Big 3 market share dropped. (It’s currently at about 45%.) Because of competition, U.S. automakers could not continue to pass price increases onto consumers (since it would cause revenues to fall); instead they had to focus on cost cutting. Ergo standardization, commoditization, and outsourcing (to take advantage of comparative advantage--mostly in terms of cheapness of labor). In other words, the auto companies used market power to benefit themselves and their labor force for years, but competition revealed their unsustainable wage and benefits packages. The market is finally being allowed to weigh in on the situation, and its not pretty. The Big 3 needs to cut anchor or die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herb, the market did/does not value autoworker labor at its current prices, and, yes, management deliberately overpaid their labor force. But it wasn’t due merely to strong-arm tactics by the UAW. The Big 3 had a frickin’ monopoly&#8211;or, more accurately, an oligopoly. In the 1950s, they controlled 90% of the market; they had no real competition. They could control output and prices. This type of situation benefits the producers (i.e., producer surplus)&#8211;and management and labor often squabble about divvying up the rewards. That’s where the outlandish labor contracts came in. The industry could pass the cost of it on to the consumer. But then came globalization, which facilitates international trade and, also, competition. The Big 3 market share dropped. (It’s currently at about 45%.) Because of competition, U.S. automakers could not continue to pass price increases onto consumers (since it would cause revenues to fall); instead they had to focus on cost cutting. Ergo standardization, commoditization, and outsourcing (to take advantage of comparative advantage&#8211;mostly in terms of cheapness of labor). In other words, the auto companies used market power to benefit themselves and their labor force for years, but competition revealed their unsustainable wage and benefits packages. The market is finally being allowed to weigh in on the situation, and its not pretty. The Big 3 needs to cut anchor or die.</p>
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		<title>By: John Calomiris</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-176293</link>
		<dc:creator>John Calomiris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=41725#comment-176293</guid>
		<description>some 30 or more years ago an american industrial engineer went to JAPAN to train their auto workers in modern industrial techniques.A few years after that an evaluation was made comparing productivity between the Japanese and American auto  workers.the results were staggering.The j`s were paid 1/2 the cash wages,produced twice the output.The advantage was 4 to one.The invasion of J auto companies started forthwith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some 30 or more years ago an american industrial engineer went to JAPAN to train their auto workers in modern industrial techniques.A few years after that an evaluation was made comparing productivity between the Japanese and American auto  workers.the results were staggering.The j`s were paid 1/2 the cash wages,produced twice the output.The advantage was 4 to one.The invasion of J auto companies started forthwith.</p>
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