Pajamas Media

56 Comments

1. Ubu Roi:

I graduated at summa cum laude with a double major from a state university, and, upon graduation, I enrolled in a teacher certification program. I lasted 2 weeks. It was the most worthless, insulting, waste of time and money I ever entered into.

No one learns anything of value in teacher certification programs; they are state sponsored scams to enrich the universities and discourage anyone of talent or ability from ever entering into a public school.

If anyone wants a cold-eyed critique of the teacher accreditation scam, I recommend the books of Richard Mitchell; he’ll set you straight on the subject.

Mar 17, 2008 - 6:32 am 2. William:

How do citizens allow the government to become so involved in their lives, that lawmakers and judges can decide that they know more than parents do in the area of child rearing and a what is best for a child’s education.

Home-schooled children almost always test higher than public school children. The children in the states that have the least amount of regulationfor home schooling even test higher. Check it out.
Maybe that’s the reason the very wise California court has made home schooling against the law. We can’t have independent educated children can we? We certainly don’t want any more Abraham Lincolns.
This tyranny is insidious

Mar 17, 2008 - 7:12 am 3. tanstaafl:

With the decline in quality in education in America and sheer chaos holding the day in many American classrooms…

A dedicated parent (credentialed or not) wanting to teach his or her own children could hardly be a step down.

Yes, teacher certification programs can be a waste of time. At least when I went through, one entire year of graduate school was required for a lifetime secondary teaching credential in the state of California.

And it was a lot of BS theorizing (”educators” seem to love that stuff) and really not much assessment of competency in the areas of study for which I was credentialed. For life, anyway

Mar 17, 2008 - 7:20 am 4. tanstaafl:

However, when I was in school, there was an element of socialization taking place with other children that was a lot of fun.

Close friendships, singing songs together at Christmastime (altho’ many public schools seem to be choosing bland, “non denominational” songs over Christmas carols these days, in the name of some perversion of political correctness, also seemingly favored by brain dead “educators”…)

(the philosophy of educators today seems to be, everybody gets a blue ribbon, no one excels, because the other kids “feel bad”…)

Anyway, home schooled children would miss the socialization of elementary school. It is not the focus of school, but it takes place as an aside in school.

Mar 17, 2008 - 7:30 am 5. William:

The idea of socialization in schools is very overrated. Most home schooling families network and work with like-minded families. The real positive in home schooling is that knowledge gained is of a much higher quality, takes less time and enables the growing student much more free time. Obviously the free time is much easier to monitor by parents, because the kids are home or at sanctioned places by the parent. Not by school teachers that do not have the same investment in the child, and let many things (drugs, sex, etc.) occur without batting an eye. So actually like the home school education, the child has a much healthier period of socialization with healthier peers.

Mar 17, 2008 - 8:32 am 6. Troy:

I agree with William: The lack of socialization for home schooled kids is a myth. We home school our two kids, and they have many social outlets.
One thing not mentioned yet: The model of having 25-30 kids of almost exactly the same age in a room with one adult prepares kids for…nothing. Where else in life would you find yourself in such a situation? Certainly not work.
This California ruling is disturbing. I disagree with Ms. Jacobs; I believe this ruling is only the beginning of government intrusion into home schooling. I hope I’m wrong.

Mar 17, 2008 - 8:51 am 7. Dadofhomeschoolers:

tanstaafl

Get off that canard will you? There are also some that find that every class has a scapegoat, and someone to bully. Our homeschooled kids can respectfully deal with newborns to octogenarians, volunteering time to both age groups, in what way aren’t they “socialized”? Since when is throwing a kid into a cell with 25 other kids the same age being “socialized”? You can see how public school socialization works in the “sullen, won’t look you in the eye, don’t talk to me, I’ve got to dress this way to fit in” kid at the mall.

Socialization indeed, It is nothing more than the state making sure that the state is unquestioned and that the masses are pacified.

Dad of homeschoolers

Mar 17, 2008 - 8:55 am 8. Bethie:

This is just a further attempt of government to CONTROL our lives, beginning with children and families. This MUST be stopped.

The real motivation for this law is obvious. Homeschooling is beginning to make the public education sytem look bad!

http://americascultureofconservatism.blogspot.com/

Mar 17, 2008 - 9:13 am 9. Wolf Pangloss:

If kids want to socialize like they used to socialize in school, I recommend they be signed up for neighborhood sports teams, for boy or girl scouts, and/or go to church and Sunday school every Sunday. When the public school kids get home from school they can all ride their bikes around the neighborhood, and maybe play stickball in the street or an empty lot.

In other words, public schools don’t allow for very much socializing. Even kindergartners around here get only one 15 minute recess per day, and that’s with full-day kindergarten. What do they get instead? Tons of mind-numbing and useless homework to train them to pass the NCLB tests.

Mar 17, 2008 - 9:31 am 10. tanstaafl:

Just telling of my own experience in school, “dad”.

I loved school, both academically (altho’ teaching could be mind numbingly repetitive and boring even in those olden days) and for the other kids.

From what I read of high school today, however, the social ostracism for the students deemed “not cool” by the cheerleaders and football players et al. can be really deadly.

Even in-spiring Men in Black who are off their meds (c.f. Columbine)

Mar 17, 2008 - 9:34 am 11. gus3:

Gee, Democrats exhibiting the very behavior they constantly accuse Republicans of. Who’da thunk?

Mar 17, 2008 - 9:34 am 12. tanstaafl:

For the record, I also encountered about 6 individual teachers (too few, of course) who absolutely shaped and changed my life.

That those particular teachers were absolutely fascinated with their own subject areas and thoroughly versed in them and easily communicated that enthusiasm and excitement to their students…was no accident.

There’s more to learning than just getting proficient in something or knowledgeable about something from books.

Granted, such profound learning experiences as I experienced with those unforgettable teachers would likely be even rarer in public education today.

Mar 17, 2008 - 9:47 am 13. John Moore:

After spending more and more money on schools, and more and more money on teachers, and having all sorts of teacher credialism, we have a terrible education system.

The success of home schooling helps show the absurdity of our system of selecting and paying teachers.

It is time to abolish the “schools” of education. It is time to abolish teacher certification (other than background checks).

Teachers should be required to know something, not have a degree in education.

Mar 17, 2008 - 10:07 am 14. Mekan:

There are so many points to be made.

1. Notice the state is basing quality upon certification and not results.

2. When did the state decide it had the power to tell the parent how to raise their children?
“”A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare,” Croskey wrote.”
Does this not reek of the schooling received by the Vietnamese children after the fall of South Vietnam? Is this Croskey or Chomskey?

3. The public school system is failing our children,and is why home-schooling grew so quickly. It is not simply the values being taught but the inability of Johny to read and write that created the movement.

4. Court rulings like this is exactly why our country’s founders added the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution. If ever the state mandates that it can take my child away for ‘training’ without my consent and without proven abuse is the day I will take up arms to protect my family.

Mar 17, 2008 - 10:09 am 15. Fontessa:

I am continually amused that the first thing the anti-homeschooler mentions is “socialization.” They never mention academics first. It’s true, my son didn’t have a prom. He did meet and travel with the most outstanding people you could imagine.

He had a sterling military career, graduated from college with double degrees, and is now married and a father. His job is rare and complex, and he serves “mankind” in a way that is profoundly elemental.

Moreover, my son has a terrific circle of wildly intelligent friends who think HE is the most interesting person they ever met.

Mar 17, 2008 - 11:34 am 16. Ben Florsheim:

Note that California does NOT allow “credentialed” teachers from other states to teach in its schools.

The whole “credentialing” business is simply an elaborate scheme to keep teaching jobs in the hands of unionized and often underqualified “teachers”.

Instead of letting a full biology graduate teach biology (perhaps with one year of teacher training), we insist on hiring semi-qualified people with “degrees” in “education” from teacher colleges.

Teacher “colleges” mainly teach 1970’s leftwing politics and 1980’s psycho-babble. Substantive subjects like physics, mathematics, biology, history etc. are touched on in a few classes.

Anyone who has compared teachers qualified in their subject with their sorry “educator” colleagues knows that we are paying most “educators” far too much, and specialists far too little.

DISCLAIMER: There are, of course, exceptional teachers who make it their business to learn their subjects in depth. But our system should not be built on the expectation of miracles.

Mar 17, 2008 - 12:27 pm 17. Fat Jolly Penguin:

Gosh, why not abolish private schools?

PLEASE DON’T SAY THAT! I’m deathly afraid that it’ll happen somewhere, someday, and the moonbats don’t need any encouragement, I promise.

Mar 17, 2008 - 1:21 pm 18. Gen:

I was home schooled all through grade & high school & I have never felt socially or academically disadvantaged even though I go to an tough college. I pull Dean’s list every semester and my teachers love me. The idea of social advanatges in the school system I find amusing. When one of my public-school friends in college was razzing me about not going to school I asked him what I missed and the only thing he could tell me was about a huge fight in front of the buses that was so cool. Yep, I missed a lot. I have a resume that most college grads would kill for from numerous volunteer positions & awards. I have great recommendations from my supervisors & I dare any mainstream student to top the activities I’ve done!

As for the academic aspect, my mother wasn’t a teacher and in fact she pulled me out of school because when she did the “involved parent” thing and volunteered in my classroom, she realized that she couldn’t possibly do a worse job than the teacher. School was humiliating, awkward & degrading. But I’m in college now & I can write better, research better and deal with college life better than most of the other students. Plus, since I wasn’t in the “normal” social atmosphere, I’m one of the few students who didn’t come to college already acclimated to binge drinking and partying all the time.

So really, did I miss anything? Maybe; if you consider drug & alcohol addictions, pregnancy & STD’s, academic failure and mind-numbing stress something that shouldn’t be missed.

I’ll take my un-qualified parent teacher over the over-opinioned, under-qualified teachers I remember any day.

Mar 17, 2008 - 2:41 pm 19. tanstaafl:

Note that California does NOT allow “credentialed” teachers from other states to teach in its schools.

CA, like many states, is screaming for teachers. Are you sure it doesn’t recognize credentials from other states ?

When I got my CA secondary teaching credential, there were no “education” majors.

The requirement at that time was a “regular” Bachelors with one (or more) major areas of study and a minor.

Education courses were not in the undergraduate curriculum but, rather, consisted of one full year of graduate school which included reading a lot of gobbledygook (aka education “theory”) and student teaching.

I’m not an anti-homeschooler, but I’d still make an argument for the socialization and interaction aspects of being in a school setting with a wide variety of other children.

And the educational value inherent in that.

However, if I had young children today, placing them in many public schools would be hugely problematical. And if parents are willing and able to “homeschool” have at it.

Just don’t cast it (homeschooling) as some religious end all and be all.

That fanaticism isn’t good for your children, either.

Mar 17, 2008 - 3:43 pm 20. Work from Home Guru:

A few years ago my wife and I started our own home business so that we could spend more time with our kids. After doing so my wife decided to home school both kids because they just were not getting the education we felt they deserved in public schools. There has been such an amazing transformation in their comprehension, reading levels and more since they have been studying at home, and neither one of us have ever had any teaching experience, so as far as we are concerned there is no need for degrees, just love and time.

Mar 17, 2008 - 4:05 pm 21. Margaret:

When the public school kids get home from school they can all ride their bikes around the neighborhood, and maybe play stickball in the street or an empty lot.

You’re being facetious, right? Even if the parents would let them ride their bikes around the neighborhood, public school kids have no time for that. They get off the bus at 4 pm, have homework, sports practice, music practice, dinner with their families (maybe), scout meetings, more homework, and have to be in bed at a reasonable time so they can catch the 8 am bus!

Mar 17, 2008 - 7:17 pm 22. Jeff C...:

The whole “credentialing” business is simply an elaborate scheme to keep teaching jobs in the hands of unionized and often underqualified “teachers”.

Instead of letting a full biology graduate teach biology (perhaps with one year of teacher training), we insist on hiring semi-qualified people with “degrees” in “education” from teacher colleges.

New Jersey was screaming for teachers as well, and put into place a process where someone could get emergency teaching credentials and teach for a full year while earning proper teaching credentials. As my high-tech industry was still in a bust at that point, I looked into getting into this program. Here’s what I found out. My info: I have a BS in Computer Engineering and an MS in Electrical Engineering–both from top 25 U.S. colleges.

1. In order to teach in a specific department, in my case–math, I’d have to have X number of math credits, and Y math credits from courses at or above the 300 level.

Counting all my courses that could be considered math–actual math department courses, plus a Department of Statistics course, and a EE-Math co-listed course, I was 2 300-level-or-above courses short. That’s assuming that I couldn’t count any of the upper-level or graduate level electrical engineering classes that were heavy on the math.

2. I couldn’t take any courses at a community college. I would have to take classes only at accredited 4-year colleges. That meant I’d have to pay the extra money and make the longer drive to one of the state’s 4-year colleges, and hope that they’d have the class available to fit my schedule. However, if I had attended a community college before I attended a 4-year college and took those classes, then those classes would count.

3. I’d send my official transcripts, plus a check for $50, to the state department of education, where some government educrat flunkie would look at my transcripts and let me know three or four months later if I have the proper classes to qualify.

At this point, I accused the government flunkie on the other end of the line of collusion and realized exactly what this program was for. It was to get the state government to give more money to the schools to hire more education graduates to teach. Apparently, a master’s degree in electrical engineering didn’t qualify me to teach high school math as much as someone with an education degree who took a few math courses in college.

Mar 17, 2008 - 8:37 pm 23. dianne:

I have been homeschooling for eight plus years and I have a teaching degree. Many times I have thought that my credential held me back as a homeschooling parent. You can’t beat love as the most important credential!

Mar 17, 2008 - 10:05 pm 24. Richie:

I’m ashamed of my union’s hopeless devotion to the “credentialed teacher.” The knowledgeable teacher, the motivated teacher, the teacher who excels in his/her content area–these hardly merit a mention from those who “know what’s best for our children.” As a teacher, I should know, right? The sad part is, my credentialing experience did little to increase my “effectiveness” as an educator. My content area was largely ignored, but we did spend quite a bit of time on making sure all of us prospective teachers were aware of how to modify lessons for students of varying cultural backgrounds. The problem comes with knowing enough about your subject to design an effective lesson to modify. 95% of my expertise in my content area comes from my undergraduate work and my own study and practice.

I’m sure there are pockets of effective credentialing programs churning out promising teachers, but this asinine loyalty to “the credential” is really making a subgroup (the cult of the credential)educators look like insecure fools.

Mar 17, 2008 - 10:16 pm 25. Frank Provasek:

Who is better off to go into the real world at age 18? A person who has been taught by 50 or 60 teachers, most holding a degree in their areas of teaching, or one who says “everything I know I learned from mommy.”

Mar 18, 2008 - 12:30 am 26. Joe Buzz:

Frank, where I went to school here on the edge of Appalachia, one would have to fail subjects quite frequently in order to be taught by “50 or 60″ teachers by the time he or she was 18. So, I guess your point is valid.

I trust my wife a bit more than I would the likes of Ward Churchill and besides her hair although shorter is much nicer.

Mar 18, 2008 - 8:32 am 27. The Reader:

Frank:

The ability of homeschoolers to comfortably interact with people of any age is exactly what initially attracted us to homeschooling.

And to answer the critics on academic front, our oldest just graduated from college magna cum laude with double major and a minor “despite” being homeschooled up through grade 8. One prof asked if she’d been homeschooled, based on her ease of interaction with profs and critical thinking skills. Another prof told her that he wrote her grad school recommendation letter while she was a sophomore.

Another of our offspring recently bought some more Shakespeare at the booksale to do some fun reading. Another spent last summer restoring machine shop tools in a manner that that earned rave reviews from construction professionals. Our second grader reads like a 5th grader.

Are our kids “better than others”? No, but as the helpful saying goes, they are better off

Mar 18, 2008 - 9:28 am 28. tanstaafl:

http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/03/do_homeschooling_moms_need_tea.php#c100864

Jeff C:

You pinpoint one of the limitations of the educational bureaucrat’s limited mind.

The educational bureaucrat is more comfortable with ducks in a row and little paper trails than it is with assessment of quality, ingenuity and what might make a “good” teacher.

Mar 18, 2008 - 11:07 am 29. tanstaafl:

Man, all you guys who “homeschool” have nascent Einsteins and little geniuses !

(Albert E. was, reportedly, dissed by his teachers as not showing much academic potential, esp. in math !)

Even though CA courts have no right to step on your choices and your justified skepticism about many public schools today…recollect that “homeschooling” (not all that long ago) was largely the province of parents who didn’t want their children exposed to ideas and thought that might contravene the parents’ belief.

So there’s a bit of a perception battle.

Johnny Walker Lindh (”the American Taliban”) was homeschooled and his “thinking” (or not thinking) is absolutely a reflection of his own parents’ limitations.

Mar 18, 2008 - 11:18 am 30. Jiphner:

I was raised in the California Educational system. I graduated with a BS in Business from a Private College in California. I had fabulous teachers and I had terrible teachers. One of my public school teachers threw a book and knocked over a table out of frustration. Another public school teacher would say vile things to classmates and I making several kids cry during/after class. A private school instructor purchased books for me out of her own pocket when my luck was down in college. I want parents in this free country to have an option to remove their children from vile educational systems if it is needed. I want children to be able to escape non-educated or abusive parents with ease. Why does it always have to be one way or another? Why does the government who can’t balance a check book and whose members are under constant observation for moral and political corruptness think they know what is best for our future and the little minds who will lead it? I apologize…I didn’t vote for many of those who are making decisions in our state/country.

Everything I know was acquired from a delightful combination of private and public educational resources. Why not offer our children the world instead of limiting them to one path or another?

I applaud everyone who has written and hope that parent’s continue to stay involved in one of the most important political issues affecting our future.

Mar 18, 2008 - 12:57 pm 31. MorningStar:

Several of the comments make valid points:
- the credentialing process serving to exclude truly qualified and motivated people from teaching;
- the true purpose of taxpayer-funded mandatory, government-run education being indoctrination in obedience to government;
- the value of acquiring one’s social skills in a variety of venues with a variety of ages;
- the value of love and time being superior to formal credential in results of teaching.

I would like to add to these that I challenge the conclusions of studies which show that children’s academic achievement is related to the level of education of the parent. I take issue with the causal relationship which is falsely asserted. My own father had an 8th-grade education, which was respectable in his day. I graduated with high honors (magna cum laude) with an engineering degree, and each of my siblings obtained a comparable level of academic success.

I and my siblings went through the public schools, but we are all home-schooled. Prior to University, what we learned, we learned at home and at the library. We learned very little in the classroom, except how to appear to pay attention, how to pass notes surreptitiously, how to regurgitate what the teacher wanted to hear, and other questionably useful skills.

It seems obvious to me that a teacher-student ratio of 2:1 or even 1:4 (typical range for home-schooling families) is superior to what could be feasibly funded by taxpayers (1:20 is a commonly-cited goal). Even if taxpayers could and would agree to fund a teacher-student ratio of 1:4, the teachers would not on average be as dedicated to each student’s well-rounded development.

A long-time friend of mine holds an advanced degree in nuclear engineering, and worked for many years at the highest technical levels at an operating nuclear power plant. She worked on a practical level daily with atomic and nuclear physics. Her understanding was both academic and verified in real-world experience. When she retired, she earned a teaching credential and landed a job teaching high school physics.

She lasted one year, and that was a giant effort for her to complete the full year. Not because of the students; they loved her, and praised her for making the science real and relevant. It was because she was frequently being “corrected” in her understanding of physics by an administrator whose training was in, you guessed it, education. This man’s comprehension of nuclear physics stopped short of knowing how to pronounce the word “nuclear”, yet he was her superior and had the power to mandate that she teach errors instead of facts. She just could not stand this travesty for long.

I propose that “Education” be abolished as a degree emphasis in all taxpayer-funded universities, and that the teacher credential process be utterly revised to welcome all the highly-qualified people who want to make a difference in our taxpayer-funded schools. As for home-schooling, it’s not “here to stay”; it’s always been with us. It’s not mentioned in the Constitution because home schooling was the NORM in the time of the founding of the United States of America. It is vital to the future of this country that home schooling remain an option that parents may choose without fear of governmental interference and kidnapping of their children.

Mar 18, 2008 - 7:08 pm 32. Troy:

Well said MorningStar, well said.

Mar 19, 2008 - 8:23 am 33. Peg C.:

I went to private girls’ school my entire secondary education in L.A. While it was far from perfect, I feel better educated than most adults who graduated from the L.A. public schools. The stupidest (I should say least-educated) people I know have public high school and often university degrees.

Home-schooling is the next best choice to good but expensive private schools and my hat’s off to parents who can do it. Not only do kids end up with a well-rounded education and are encouraged to have fertile and curious minds, but (unlike with private schools) there is likely to be less or no liberal p.c. claptrap bias nonsense taught in a home-schooling environment. (I didn’t escape my private school lefty dogma for decades.)

No child of mine would ever go to a public school, period. It’s one of the many things government has no business doing, and does very poorly (with some advanced ed exceptions).

Mar 19, 2008 - 8:51 am 34. The Reader:

to Morningstar: well said, indeed.

Studies of homeschoolers show that homeschooled kids benefit irrespective of the parents’ educational level. I’ve seen wonderful homeschools taught by parents who were truckers and LPNs, and others where both parents had PhDs. What matters is love, a comfortable setting free from adverse peer pressure, and the ability to tailor curriculum to the child’s interests and needs.

Homeschool co-operatives and resource groups give parents and kids even more resources upon which to draw.

Mar 19, 2008 - 9:21 am 35. Sunniemom:

As ‘professional’ educators and union officials strut proudly down the street, the home educators are the ones loudly proclaiming “The educrats have no clothes!” No wonder they want us to shut up and go away.

Mar 19, 2008 - 11:58 am 36. Kathy:

I have taught all my children at home. My teaching degree was no use at all as far as teaching my own children. A loving parent is all that a child needs.

My oldest was on the dean’s list every semester in college (he is a senior) and was just accepted into a prestigious music school for his master’s degree. My next son just got a wonderful theater scholarship to college. Home educating works!!

We don’t need the state to control education!!

Mar 19, 2008 - 2:56 pm 37. Jennie:

I attended public and private schools, as well as being home-schooled by my mother. From my experiences, private school and home-schooling were the best ways to go. To me, public school was a big joke and waste of time. I would spend around seven hours a day at school, mostly socializing, with maybe a couple of hours devoted to studying. The worst part was, when I got home, I still had to do homework to make up for the time I spent “learning” at school. I remember classes full of kids who were disrespectful and unruly, with the teachers barely able to maintain control. I remember everything had to be done in groups - group projects, studying in groups, and even group tests - so that the failing kids could still get a decent grade and pass. Of course, everyone passed, no matter what. If they didn’t pass, it might hurt their self-esteem. I had enough of all of this, and asked my mom to please let me be home-schooled in high school. This way, instead of spending seven hours learning useless junk and even more time making up the work in homework, I could spend four hours a day learning quality material and devote the rest of my time to doing more productive things like volunteering and learning new skills. My mother does not have teaching credentials, but I managed to learn enough to score a 24 on the ACT test, which is higher than many of my friends who have attended public or private school their whole lives. A few years ago, I enrolled in the local community college, where I was able to take the English and math classes that “count for credit,” instead of the ones that prepare you for the classes that actually count. What is that? I thought that when you graduate from high school, you are supposed to be ready to take college classes that “count”. But I guess a lot of kids spent too much time messing around in high school to actually learn anything. Lastly, I couldn’t believe the poor English and grammar skills from the other students in the college English classes that I took. We were asked to proof read our classmates’ essays, and I told my teacher that I thought this was a college class, not a sixth grade class. I wondered how in the world these people even graduated from elementary school, let alone high school. So if our government wants to penalize someone for failing to teach our children, let them penalize their own government-funded public school systems.

By the way, all of this self-esteem junk that has been fed to children, which started with my generation in the eighties, might it partly be linked to the higher numbers of depression and anger seen among young people today? I mean, think about it. Kids are fed that they are number one, always a winner, that they can be whatever they want, no matter what, and that no one should stop them. Then, top that off with lack of discipline and no respect for anyone but themselves. What happens when they graduate from high school, go into the “real world”, and possibly for the first time in their lives experience rejection and/or discipline and correction? Might this have something to do with depression and anger setting in?

Mar 27, 2008 - 11:44 am 38. Orca:

Frank said:
Who is better off to go into the real world at age 18? A person who has been taught by 50 or 60 teachers, most holding a degree in their areas of teaching, or one who says “everything I know I learned from mommy.”

Another canard. VERY few homeschoolers learn everything they know from “Mommy”. They learn from the community of resources available to them. They have mentors throughout the community. They have adults in real world jobs who teach them, give them opportunities and treat them with respect. They use their brains to seek out what they want to know and learn and find the best way to learn it. In other words, they learn how to be respectable, resourceful adaptable, productive people who can fend for them selves.

There are always exceptions, but the hundreds of HS kids I have met in three states (NY, AK, and WI) all fit this mold. I substitute teach in the public schools and spend one day a week at a homeschool co-op. THe HS kids are hands down more ready for life than any of the public school kids I meet.

Mar 29, 2008 - 5:56 am 39. i b squidly:

I thought to tack a teaching certificate onto my BA. At Arizona State that’s a six semester program and I demanded my money back at the first mid-term and for cause received it all. The causes?

One class was “Social Studies for Secondary Students” but the Prof thought it more practical to teach Social Skills For Elementary Students because she didn’t believe high schoolers had social skills.

Class two was writing. The idea was to rid yourself of all polysyllabic words and compound sentences. Use no words requiring a dictionary.

The third class was to have been Management but by mid-term the prof had provided 6 syllabuses, 6 semester projects but had yet to make an appearance.

The one value from any of this was the text for the Management class. Some gems from this book: Anyone with a BA or BS is qualified to teach those subjects to secondary students or lower; there’s a direct inverse ratio to the amount of training in education a teacher receives, the more time in a school of education the worse the teacher; Ed school students are the bottom 15% of college students by SAT; there is no correlation between cost per student and student performance compare South Dakota and NYC.

Last I checked Az had some 270 school districts. 100 had no students but they did have office and staff.

Mar 29, 2008 - 9:59 am 40. jake:

I’m surprised no-one has commented on this gem:
“A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare,” wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey.

Surely, he’s not serious! That’s the most laughable statement I’ve seen from a government official in a long time, and that’s really saying something! Citizenship, a PRIMARY purpose? Really? Well, if the instruction of citizenship/patriotism/loyalty is the measure, then it is time to close the doors of nearly every government schoolhouse in California. Does this clueless flunkie have ANY idea whatsoever about the subjects being taught in government schools? Patriotism, love of country, etc. are just about the last thing you can expect to learn in a government school. As a parent, I’ve seen the nonsense my child has brought home, the blatant Eurocentric/anti-American point of view, especially in “Social Studies” (whatever that is. What happened to History and Geography classes?). Mathematics has become Rainbow Math, and every science lesson is focused on the **$#& environment, with the inevitible conclusion that us filthy, horrid Americans are consuming too many resources and will destroy the Earth. The revisionists are busy filling my child’s head with notions that it was wrong to use the Atom Bomb against Japan (America = Bad!), we didn’t need to get involved in WWII (just let those nasty Jews die, I suppose), and speaking of Jews, the Anti-Israel bias is so obvious it’s laughable. And Good Citizenship? The only thing my child learns about citizenship is that all war is wrong (no exceptions) and it’s their duty to go out and protest against the president.

Justice Croskey is either dangerously naive, a fool, or having a laugh at our expense. Perhaps he’s all three.

Mar 30, 2008 - 12:21 am 41. Hillbilly Liberal:

I agree with your arguement that anyone wanting to home school their kids should be able to do so. I do not think the idea of doing away with public schools is very well thought out. Not every parent wants to home school their kids. Not every parent has the ability to home school.There are alot of single parents working two jobs who just do not have the time.One of the biggest reasons for the problems you write about in public schools is parents who will not get involved in their child’s education. Are you going to take these kids into your home to school? I am not a college educated teacher. I am a substitute in the public school system. I see many good teachers putting in more hours for less money than I was making with much less education before I retired.As for the people who think they are so well socialized because they can converse so well with professors and other accademic snobs, maybe you could help by volunteering to mentor in a public school and pass along some of your superior education to some of these kids I just mentioned.To Joe Buzz I would like to say I took a pencil and paper and added up the number of teachers and teachers aids a student in our schools will see (not counting admin.). It came to 58.Jiphner and Morningstar are right.

Mar 30, 2008 - 7:09 pm 42. CHS:

The point to remember about certification of teachers is that certification is FOR the parents’ peace of mind. IF parents consent to send their children to government schools, there should be some way to ensure the competency standard of the people (who are largely unknown to the parent) who will be teaching the student. If the parent is the teacher, a teaching certificate is moot.

re: the good of socialization in the public schools. JUST who I want teaching social skills to my 7 year old–a bunch of other 7 year olds!

Apr 5, 2008 - 9:53 am 43. GPE:

There are a few things that seem to have gone un-mentioned in this thread. Yes, home-schooling is a perfectly fine option for families with a parent who can stay at home, and invest the sort of time and energy necessary to teach a wide range of subjects to his or her child as well as provide them with opportunities for socialization.
However, it is un-fair to say that home-schooling is better than public education simply because a high percentage of home-schooled children succeed later in life. You are not comparing like groups of kids.
If we compared the achievements of home-schooled children with public schooled children from financially secure families whose parents are deeply involved and committed to the success of their children, I think you’d have very similar results between the two groups. The problem is not public education. The problem is that there are simply not enough children in public schools who come from stable, education-valuing families. Public education will provide an excellent, free education to any child who invests his or herself in it. It is just that many children do not have the support systems they need to succeed. Considering the fairly daunting obstacles facing teachers in the classroom, I’d say public education in America, while it has a long way to go, is not nearly as tragically broken as so many of you say it is.

Apr 5, 2008 - 1:34 pm 44. GPE:

What can we do to improve the public education system and make it work better for those who are not coming from nurturing families? We can create mentoring programs that give those children adult role-models who will help them see a future different than what they envision for themselves currently. We can continue to work to lower class sizes, yes, and we can work to involve more parents in the system by reaching out to them.
For many, many children, their time in a public school is the most stable, secure part of their day. I teach myself, and I see many, many students who do not like going home for school breaks or summer recess. They enjoy being at school, where they have boundaries, are challenged to take a risk and learn each day, and where they see teachers who love them and want what’s best for them. Who set firm boundaries, yet do so with calm purposefulness and understanding. It’s not a perfect system, but giving up on it will only leave those children to fall through the cracks. There must be a better way.

Apr 5, 2008 - 2:02 pm 45. Richard:

My wife and I homeschooled our two kids in the 80’s. In Arizona we had to take the state teacher’s test. No big deal for anyone with a basic education.
Homeschooling is not for everyone, but it should always be an option.

Apr 7, 2008 - 11:36 am 46. Kenny:

I hope for the day when the people in government will stop wasting our time and our money. I believe we had a revolutionary war in this country to rid ourselves of taxation without representation. I believe today that we have just that. We the people go to work, and work hard to provide for our families. We are taxed on everything from food to gas to shelter to you name it. Then, the same people who take our hard earned money, spend it however they see fit. How is this any different than what our forefathers fought so bravely against? Socialism DOES NOT WORK! Period. Not in business, not in government, and most certainly not in any school system.

Apr 9, 2008 - 8:04 am 47. FP:

>Kenny said
“Socialism DOES NOT WORK! Period. Not in business, not in government, and most certainly not in any school system.”
>

“Socialism” –or any system (read civlization’s caste structure) –isn’t suppose to work [read solve problems(tm)]. It is simply a tool for acheiving power and _more niches for more bureaucrats_ (all in a kind of non self aware darwinst hive structure way). And in that regard it does works.

It can more accurately be said that ‘capitalism/democracy/freedom/liberty (and etc)’ doesn’t work, for they are always easily hijacked by some form of socialism (read protectionist propganda and bio-determinist-middle-man/runt conspiracy) before the acrid smoke of revolution has dissipated and the ink of constitution is dry.

Freedom /liberty etc simply means _temporary_ success for those that ran away from civilization’s inherent caste to some outback. There they found “freedom”.

…Until that which they ran away from (the caste of civil society — whatever its zeitgheist excuse/mandate that generation) –that which they brought with them– catches up to their island.

…So in the end one gets to pick their ’socialism’ (read ‘advocacy protectionist demagouery : priest class and ‘gubmint’): socialsm from the ‘right’ [male, intelligent, native, adult, 'healthy'], or socialism from the left [female, migrant, childish, 'ill'].

The only way to stop “socialism” (what you really mean is ‘feminism, non white immigration, and similar ‘modern liberal’ things –things you, through the profound mental condition that is american patriotism/conservatism falsly ascribe to ’sovietism’ _which had non of that_) is to beat it to the punch’; to prevent liberal priests/protectionist demagogues from propagandizing to your sheep –because you’ll corral them, “for their own good”, first.

The “great experiment” that is america has proved this. That might be its one and only gift to posterity… An example of failure. And therefor a road map for how to avoid it next time ’round.

Apr 10, 2008 - 8:09 pm 48. Chris R.:

There was a time when I thought homeschooling was generally inferior to public or private schools. I changed my mind in the early 1990’s when gangs started appearing in high schools where I lived at the time.

I don’t have any children yet, but the security problems alone at public schools would prevent me from sending my kids. My wife and I are planning to start a family this year and we’ve already decided to go with homeschooling and private schools. I would never live in California but if my state of Texas passed a law banning homeschooling, I would simply not obey. I would fight them in various courts and by the time they got through my attorneys, my kids would have graduated college and it would be a moot point.

Parents have many reasons for homeschooling their children and the state has no business legislating what parents may or may not do in their homes.

Here’s a hypothetical concerning the so-called YouTube attack in Florida last month:
A 16-year old girl, an honor roll student and varsity cheerleader was savagely beaten by 8 fellow students just so they could get some video of the beating to post on YouTube. Her parents have announced that she will be homeschooled for the remainder of her high school career.
If they lived in California, would her parents be criminals for homeschooling their daughter? Would they actually compound the injustice of her attack with another injustice of going after her parents?

Any CA state legislators and education officials who support the homeschooling ban should be made to attend public school classes in South Central Los Angeles for one week. I’m quite sure that experience would change their minds, if they made it back home in one piece.

The security situation alone is compelling enough to drive parents toward homeschooling. There are many other compelling reasons for parents to shun public schools. Parents need to have every available educational option open to them because the government at all levels is failing badly when it comes to educating our kids. Having that same government take away options is just plain wrong, and it reeks of socialism. As usual, it’s up to voters to elect responsible leaders instead of socialist morons.

Apr 10, 2008 - 10:58 pm 49. Rafi's mom:

I have homeschooled five of my children for variouslengths of time. I had help from friends, other parents,and community resources, but precious little from any of the rot I had learned in the “College of Education” in our State Land Grant University.

THe first time I started homeschooling was when my eldest had lost most of her prior knowledge while in Kindergarten and gained non at all, was in a “Montessori” public school program in which she was not permitted to use the materials she needed most (fine motor), and had a teacher whose notes home I was constantly blue-penciling as her ability to write was laughable. Oh yes, and then when my second child who had been in Special Education as a preschooler, got ZERO transition from the school, and in fact their staff managed to FORGET a two hour “transition ” meeting…I simply decided “enough.” It took less time to homeschool those children than it did to fight with the schools so they might do their job.

I spent 6 years homeschooling 4 kids at that time. All transitioned, at the top of their classes, to a small nonpublic school, and then to larger public high schools. All have been doing well in University, the eldest is in grad school, second (who had early intervention, graduated with Honors in English (in 7 semesters while working 32 hours a week), third is a Dean’s List Japanese major, currently in Tokyo for Junior Year, and fourth just started as a Freshman and has one Dean’s List semster so far.

Youngest child “needs” special Ed. Notwithstanding this, he is now at home except for therapies. The school personnel at his previous placement managed to toilet un-train him and to teach him that the best way to get out of doing work was throwing a big enough hissy fit to distract the licensed personnel. We are still working to modify these behaviors.

Obviously, from my experience, licensure and socialization are both red herrings. And I am no kind of religious fanatic, by the way, merely a fairly middle of the road Conservative Jew.

Apr 12, 2008 - 1:40 pm 50. Bernardo:

The consensus of comments to this point appears to be that the government schools are failing to provide a proper education for our children, mostly because they are too busy providing “socialization” — i.e., individual submission to authority of the state and indoctrination in the political ideologies of the local school boards and/or teachers’ unions.

Why do we continue to fund such a losing cause? How many more generations can we dumb down before we hit bottom?

Apr 12, 2008 - 1:59 pm 51. Who Should Educate the Children at George Street:

[...] should be no surprise that the government in California has ruled that parents have no right to educate their own children. Instead, all children between 7 and 18 must be educated by a [...]

Apr 24, 2008 - 2:51 pm 52. zoom zoom:

I think California’s decision to not allow home schooling may be a lack of resources and oversight. California has a large population so it is fairly difficult for them to ensure that all home schooled children are being educated properly. Parents may use home schooling as a way to circumvent truancy laws.

Jun 28, 2008 - 11:23 am 53. zoom zoom:

For the most part, home schooled children will do well in any environment. They generally live in two parent households who both have college educations. One parent can devote their time entirely to their children while the other parent probably makes a fairly significant salary. It would be more accurate to compare this demographic e.g. two parent families, college educated, devoted parent, etc. to see what advantages or disadvantages home schooling has on a child. Unfortunately, California’s restrictive law does not allow for family choice. The law may uphold the greater good by preventing families unable to educate their children properly.

Jun 28, 2008 - 11:33 am 54. Dee Dee:

I am a teacher in a public school system. Whenever we get students that were homeschooled from K through eighth grades, they are woefully behind as freshmen. Any child would benefit from one-on-one instruction and that is what homeschooling does. However, if the parent doesn’t know the subjects, then it is a total waste of time.

Jul 21, 2008 - 9:03 pm 55. Homeschooler:

I am a homeschooler, so what? I enjoy being homeschooled, I watch some of my brothers friends go into school at age ten and come out acting like hoodlums,I think it is better to be homeschooled and not public schooled. Most kids in public school are bullys, disrespectful etc. They go in and come out this way. And you guys are talking about us being socialzed, for one, I am socialized, i get plenty of GOOD friends, GODLY friends. You can get a girlfriend in school thats not a christian, or, you can get one thats respectful, modest, dressed modestly etc.

I AM A HOMESCHOOLER AND PROUD OF IT!!!

Oct 23, 2008 - 4:45 am 56. Homeschooler:

I am a homeschooler, so what? I enjoy being homeschooled, I watch some of my brothers friends go into school at age ten and come out acting like hoodlums, I think it is better to be homeschooled and not public schooled. Most kids in public school are bullies, disrespectful etc. They go in and come out this way. And you guys are talking about us being socialized, for one, I am socialized; I get plenty of GOOD friends, GODLY friends. You can get a girlfriend in school that is not a Christian, or, you can get one that is respectful, modest, dressed modestly etc.
I AM A HOMESCHOOLER AND PROUD OF IT!!!

Oct 23, 2008 - 4:47 am

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