Pajamas Media

59 Comments

1. Don’t Consign GOP to Land of Cotton:

[...] Don’t Consign GOP to Land of Cotton By equating red states with the Confederacy, pundits reveal their own ignorance and hate. [...]

Nov 15, 2008 - 12:38 am 2. Typewriter King:

Yeah, we know their boasting is peculiar and outdated. They see maps with blue splashes over the urban areas, and take pride in confirming they control the educated cities, and the supposedly rural farmland is the red. They missed the twentieth century, obviously, and the sprawl of the suburbs. What they boast of is control of the inner cities, and what they’d looked at with scorn has been the suburbs.

If I recall correctly, the Republican presidential candidate won the suburbs in every race from 1968 to 2004. With numbers still coming in, McCain makes the first GOP candidate since Goldwater to lose this area, and Mac pulled in a strong 48%. The GOP has hardly been backward or backwater.

Nov 15, 2008 - 1:53 am 3. Don’t Consign GOP to Land of Cotton:

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Nov 15, 2008 - 2:06 am 4. Tao Te Truth:

Well said. After moving to NY from Baltimore I was astonished by the generally accepted bigotry against the South from educated liberals. Truly backwards.

The South, for them, is flyover land on the way to Disneyworld or timeshares.

Nov 15, 2008 - 4:18 am 5. Mary Grabar:

It is in these forums where real history is still taught, by professors like Tim Furnish. Students should be directed to these pages, now that they’ve lost the benefit of a great professor in their classrooms. Those like Wolfe impress college freshmen, who don’t know any better and have been brainwashed. They can’t back up their arguments with facts, so resort to name-calling. Keep exposing them, Tim! We’ll shine the lights on them, until they run into their corners and crevices like cockroaches.

Nov 15, 2008 - 5:29 am 6. R a Z o R:

Liberal jealousy of my: clean water , fresh air

trees , pond , friendly neighbors , and zero

traffic is such a burden .

With the big rebate check should I get a Ruger

or a Remington ?

Nov 15, 2008 - 6:53 am 7. Carl D. Kaminer:

Having been white since birth myself, and a lifetime southerner, let me point out that most of my neighbors and co-workers would have voted for a conservative black candidate over a lily-white liberal had that been the choice. Down here in our cotton-pickin’ part of the country, most of us have learned to appreciate our diversity. And in my travels up north, I’ve seen just as much, or more, racist behavior.

You did see a shift in the south towards the Democrats in this past election, no doubt due in part to the ineptitude and arrogance of the current presidential administration, and also in part to the large numbers of Yankees that have moved south where traditional values and lower taxes equate to a better standard of living.

Nov 15, 2008 - 7:08 am 8. njcommuter:

Is it time for a suggestion out of Heinlein? Instead of alloting electoral votes on the basis of population, allot them on the basis of military enlistment and service–based on total years of service. To keep older officers from overwhelming things, count their years of service as officers at half-rate after they reach the time of a single normal
enlistment term.

Nov 15, 2008 - 7:17 am 9. David:

Actually the South is doing even better than the statistics above would indicate. On a variety of measures, both black and white Southerners rate as well or higher than black and white populations in other parts of the country. For example, a report on education a few years ago had Minnesota at the top and Texas in the middle, but white students in Texas scored higher than the whites in Minn., and black students in Texas scored higher than black students in Minn. In other words, TX was doing a better job educating both black and white students, but the subpopulation sizes are very different, resulting in the difference when the data are combined. The same things happens with many other measures (situation known as Simpson’s Paradox).

Nov 15, 2008 - 7:34 am 10. anton:

I have travelled to the South since my childhood four decades ago (sadly I live right next to Detroit)and have seen first hand how people get along there. It is not free of racism, nowhere is, but on a day-to-day basis there is less of an impact than there is in Detroit or Chicago.

The mental image held by the Boston elite is still that of police dogs and fire-hoses from the sixties. Never mind that in the 60’s the public officers ordering the assaults on blacks were uniformly Democrats. This is stunningly far from the case today. I see far greater self-segregation in the People’s Liberal Heaven of Michigan than I see when travelling in the Old South.

Maybe those iliterate Jesus freaks took the words in the Bible and put them into action. I know the godless commies up here in Michigan just took the money from Federal programs and sat on their hands.

Nov 15, 2008 - 7:50 am 11. anton:

nj I would go with that.

I had a liberal freind that was in a nut-up over the last election. He was worried that the cities would rise up in revolution to prevent W from serving another term. I laughed out loud at him and then asked why he was concerned about that.
I pointed out that almost all of the military personel came from areas that voted for W, and that the reserves of military experience lay entirely outside the few counties that voted for Kerry.
Then I told him that I had yet to meet a Liberal that would risk dying for his beliefs. And who would lead them? The bunch of doughy middle aged radicals at the U of M Sociology Department? I gave him a glass of port and suggested he calm himself.

Nov 15, 2008 - 7:59 am 12. The Historian:

RADICAL POLITICIANS WILL DESTROY OBAMA
The far left in Congress is on track to ruin the Obama administration:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/radical-politic ians-will-destroy-obama.html

Nov 15, 2008 - 8:02 am 13. Ms Attitude:

I’m a military brat, southerner and college educated. I voted for McCain and I believe that history will show that Bush was a good, if not great, president. If Wolfe’s comments had been made about blacks he would be labeled a racist. But he’s allowed to make such damning generalizations about white southerners. He should come visit some of us southerners…we would invite him in, make him a glass of sweet tea and treat him with respect as a guest…because that’s Southern Hospitality. I have been to other parts of this great nation and I will tell you for a FACT…the south is less segregated than any other area.

I guess I need to go get my Confederate Flag, my shotgun, and my bottle of moonshine and go fishing…too bad I don’t have any of these things.

Nov 15, 2008 - 8:18 am 14. James:

It’s hard to take this teeth gnashing as anything more than whining when the author on one hand, rails against stereotypes regarding the South, but keeps wailing about “elitist” New England. Kind of like Farrakhan complaining about bigotry…

Nov 15, 2008 - 8:33 am 15. Horace Wells:

Oh cry me a river. More whining about the media, from cheap partisan hacks, so trivial and hypocritical!

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:19 am 16. Horace Wells:

James, are you expecting rationality and insight here? This is just an extension of talk radio.

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:21 am 17. BackwardsBoy:

Horace, go back to the KosKids site and drink some more Koolaid. Keep this thread for those of us who want to explore an honest debate about media bias.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:03 am 18. kevin c:

THE COMMUNIST STYLE TACTICS OF SAUL ALINSKY. DEMONIZE YOUR OPPONENETS. DONT WORK WITH THEM IN ANY WAY,JUST DESTROY THEM. WE CONSERVATIVES NEED SOMEONE LIKE A VINCE LOMBARDI OR A GEORGE PATTON WHO UNDERSTANDS HOW TO WIN. AND WINNING IS NOT DONE BY BEING A “ME-TOO” CONSERVATIVE,ALA BUSH,MCSHAME,LINDSAY GRAMNASTY,OR A TIM PAWLENTY. SARAH PALIN IGNITED THE BASE FOR ONE REASON. SHES ONE OF US. THE WHINERS ABOUT HERE ARE THE SAME COUNTRY CLUB LOSERS LIKE FORD,DOLE, AND BUSH. AND LOOK WHAT IT GOT US. THE MOST COMMIE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS IN HISTORY. THANKS GEORGE W BUSH AND JOHN MCSHAME AND CHRIS SHAYS AND LINDSAY GRAMNASTY. YOU LOSERS CAUSED THESE PROBLEMS. IT WILL UP TO US REAL PATRIOTS TO TAKE OUR CIVILIZATION BACK.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:09 am 19. kevin c:

and oh by the way-THE EXTREME LEFT WILL DESTROY OBAMA-HE IS THE EXTREME LEFT. OBAMA=NASTY NAZI PIGLOSI=HARRY THE RED REED=BACKDOOR SANTA BARNEY FRANK=EVERY APPOINTMENT BARAK THE BOLSHEVIK HAS MADE SO FAR.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:16 am 20. fred:

The urban centers in the U.S. are now largely enclaves of various kinds of collectivists. The suburbs that ring them are a mixture of collectivists vs. those who believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility. The rural areas – I live in a part of New Hampshire that is somewhere between a rural area and suburban (so I see both types of people) – are largely more conservative. We identify with the land, the water, wildlife, the seasons, being good neighbors, enjoying guns and shooting, a more contemplative/religious mindset, more traditional American (and yet amazingly cosmopolitan and aware). In the cities and more densely packed areas in my state, and the university/college towns, the mindset is more collectivist. New Hampshire is now a very solidly blue state because of the influx of these urbanites AND because the older generation – the WWII/Depression Era, “Reagan Democrats” – is dying off in buckets and being replaced by the more collectivist 18-30 year old demographic.

The collectivists want more government benefits and want those of us who pay taxes to pay more taxes for those bread and circus handouts.

The collectivists are generally pacifistic and their males are more pussified, so they hate guns, the military, and fighting the bad guys in the world. They sympathize with the criminal class, considering them to be unfortunates who grew up in poverty and oppression, which are held to be responsible for the crime. The young males largely have been indoctrinated by their teachers, their Older Boomer Cohort grandparents, and their professors to regard their country as unworthy of military service. They don’t want to join the military to fight for the capitalist pig-dog, imperialist Great Satan. They want to party and to get baked on their weed, pick up chicks, fornicate with them, and have no responsibility for any “accidents” that happen. Spoiled brats are what they are. The females hate conservatives because the conservatives won’t give them free health care or guarantee them that they can abort the “accidents” that the above-mentioned irresponsible males have sired. They want to pick up the guys and be like the ladies in “Sex And The City” who have fabulous escapades, make lots of money, and have not a care in the world.

Plus they all had great good fun bashing Booooosh for the past eight years. Calling him a chimp and calling him Hitler was great, good sport. They all cried crocodile tears for the poor jihadis we were illegally interning at Gitmo and torturing.

I used to be on the Left years ago when I was a college student and grad student. An aspiring academic Marxist. I know how that sub culture operates and their mindset.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:47 am 21. DownriverDem:

The Republicans have destroyed our once great country. Your reactions to the Obama/Biden win is so laughable.

From many of the comments I have seen over the last week, it is obvious that you will not join the huge majority of Americans who voted for Obama and are going to be involved in re-building our country.

How sad. You bad.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:49 am 22. Smart Lady:

The current Republican Party will lose until it cleans up the party. Your party is too white, too religious, too male, too southern, too pro war, too anti women, too anti environment, too anti national health care, too anti reproductive rights, too anti gay, too anti black, too anti middle class, too full of lies, etc.

But, go ahead, and continue to go down the road of Palin. You will only continue to lose.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:54 am 23. Dave:

This is a terrific headline.

Only trouble is, it’s as much conservative pundits as liberal ones doing this stereotyping.

It’s the same bias, the intellectual snob one. Pundits all go to the same colleges, right? You almost never see a tv pundit or newspaper columnist who has a PhD in agriculture from Texas A and M. They’re all Ivy Leaguers with views that differ a bit but biases that are built into their culture and upbringing.

I was very sad to see Jennifer Rubin go down this road of ‘we have to move to the center’… but lots of them are there, because they think this present electoral map shows something wrong with conservatism.

Truth is, it shows something wrong with REPUBLICANS, that they are too centrist already, that people won’t vote for centrists when they can have Dem centrists instead.

When we run conservative candidates, when we go back to our roots, we will win again. Prop 8 won in the blue blue land of California, a socially conservative issue with no candidate to screw it up.

Nov 15, 2008 - 11:04 am 24. fred:

So, someone like “SmartLady” thinks Republicans should change and be more like Democrats/Socialists? In other words, surrender the intellectual debate, because, in her mind, we’re a bunch of knuckledragging hayseeds.

No. It is the post-modernist, hedonist, collectivists who are wrong about history, wrong about their ideological use of science, wrong about theology, wrong about the junk science of AGW, wrong about capitalism, et al.

SmartLady is a dumb lady. You go along with the objectification of women and the murder of conceived life. Enjoy your metrosexual males – the ones who would never defend you against the 7th century savages who want you in a burqa and out of view.

Nov 15, 2008 - 11:20 am 25. cedarford:

Like it or not, the perception is there, not just in pundits, but in the public that the Republicans are now dominated by the religious and cultural litmus tests imposed on it by Southern evangelicals.
Now, the states of the Old South and “Jesusland” do not neatly overlap, but enough so that the Fundies of West Virginia, Kentucky, rural Ohio, Oklahoma, and Fundie white Westerners do have an influence of “Southern-fried morality” in their own views. Their theological seminaries are in the South, their conventions held there.

In the Republican Primaries, we saw nervous candidates attempt to finess the Southern Base dogma on evolution, extreme right to life, if Catholics and Mormons are heretics, the bizarre Cult of Christian Zionism and Millenial Dispensalism. Candidates bible-spouting. One candidate electing not to run as Governor Huckabee but as Southern Pastor Huckleberry for added edge in getting votes. We saw Southern “anti-intellectualism” on full display in the 2008, why small town Alabama is “real America” while the “non-American values cities like LA, Chicago, Charlotte, Denver, Atlanta, and Cleveland – along with their ‘elitist’ suburbs and nearby ‘book-larnin’ universities – aren’t. Republicans telling us why character, being ‘right with God’, charisma and supporting wars matters more than education and experience in candidates..

We saw candidates from outside Fundie-Land rejected nearly completely as unsuitable candidates. Rudy, Romney, Tom Ridge, VP candidates dismissed as unacceptable to the Southern Base as “too Northern” or “too moderate on banning all abortions”. McCain only getting in because he was old, payed his dues, and was the sort of militarist hero and anti-abortion true believer the Southern Base loved that almost neutralized his RINO taint. But he still had to bow to them in his VP pick. McCain was told in no uncertain terms that the Jew (Lieberman), the Heretic (Romney), the Moderate Catholic (Ridge), RINO Midwesterner (Pawlenty),the damn Yankee (Rudy), and the female pro-baby killers (Sens. Hutchinson, Collins, CEO Whitman) were unacceptable.

Leading Republicans outside the South were dismissed as RINOS – the Maine Senators, Arnold, Gov Lingle of Hawaii, Chris Shays, the last New Engalnd Republican Congressman. Most didn’t even bother showing up at the Convention. (Which was amazingly enough held in ‘RINO-Land’ Minnesota, not around a giant catfish fry in South Carolina.)

It doesn’t take a genius demographic researcher to find out the major portion of “the Base” are one-generation removed from being conservative Southern Democrats, and a fair deal 3 generations removed from the KKK organizations that once had 5 million members in the USA.

Nor does it take a genius demographer to realize that the centers of “strong defense, smaller government, fiscal restraint, no war adventures abroad” were in New England, the Great Lakes States, California, Rocky Mountain States as recently as mid- 1980s. And that all changed – not with Reagan – but with the South and Religious Right taking over and going away from traditional Republican values. Instead of the values from Lincoln to the 20th Century almost closing – imposing new cultural and religious values as the new, nonegotiable Republican bona fides.

With Fundies screaming “RINO!” against any Republican that wasn’t an anti-abortion zealot, did not support Tom DeLays K Street Project, did not want more ag subsidies, Neocon militarism, or had concern about deficits soon to be wiped out by “supply side magic”.

Somewhere along the way, whole regions and demographic groups began rejecting the toxic blend of Southern morality, Fundie vision, and wealthy Corporatists sticking it to hispanics, women, moderates and independents, even Reagan Democrats.
The Reagan Democrats have suffered mightily since the mid-90s. Wage stagnation, loss of health care, soaring drug prices, pervasive fear of job loss, not seeing any gains from “trickledown” or the promised “New, great, high tech jobs!” as all their industries shut down and went to China. 7 major financial scandals since deregulation started in the 80s (starting with the S&L fiasco) that wiped out many Reagan Deoncrat’s family wealth.
Some of the Reagan Democrats remain loyal, but our kids are defecting enmass to the Democrats.

There is enough truth to the “New Dixiecrats” argument that we Republicans do need to address it.

Nov 15, 2008 - 11:39 am 26. Steve:

I love when democrats come and lecture us about how to fix things. Perhaps your right we should follow your path to victory. We should attack him with every vile insult we can think of and work to undermine anything he does, it doesn’t matter if it undermines our country or military as long as it hurts him because we hate him and that’s all that matters. You liberals have behaved in the most disgusting hateful way possible for the last 8 years and now you wanna lecture us?

Nov 15, 2008 - 12:06 pm 27. Mike:

Steve, you are exactly right. The DailyKos and the Moveon folks have shown us the way to respect Obama. And the left has no right to lecture us for sure. After 8 years of vile attacks they are morally bankrupt.

Is there a way for the GOP to emerge from the woodshed? Yes, go back to constitutional liberties, small efficient frugal government and avoid foreign entanglements. After all, according to the founders of the Republic, that was the intent all along.

By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.

Nov 15, 2008 - 1:20 pm 28. Tom:

If Michael Steele had run against Obama, Steele would have won the South. No doubt about it.

Southerners were attracted to McCain’s past military service, and afraid of Obama’s big-city socialism and marxism.

And many blacks in Alabama voted for Obama. But some didn’t because of the abortion issue.

Just as the GOP should not ignore New England or other regions, the Dems shouldn’t ignore the South either.

The GOP will right itself out and be the big tent again, and be a strong party in the future. These things work in cycles. The only thing that might stop it is if under Obama, the economy collapses due to the gradually weakening dollar over his term and the related inflation that is coming from a generational high debt / high consumption economy.

Guess where all those new auto plants are going?

Long live the South.

Nov 15, 2008 - 1:28 pm 29. freeus:

LOL! And you can add the NYT latest slam against we of the Redneck South!

For those of you naybobs railing against the center or social Conservatives, might I suggest you pick up a history book every now and then? If you read them, you perhaps would find that both God fearing Christians, and what is now termed “Center Right” folks, have throughout history rescued your fannies every time their is a crisis of some sort. The Founding Fathers were people made up of all types of religions, and you do not seem to mind living in this country they created under the guidance of their “Creator”. The fact that the Left is so terrified of social Conservatives warms the cockles of my SEC lovin’ heart. May Conservatism rise once again to greatness, and protect your rights like mad to worship whatever or whomever you choose. See down here, we want you Easterners, (otherwise known in these parts as “Yankees”), and our own Southern “ignorant” electorate, to be free from the entanglements from the federal government. If you want to worship grass, hey, knock yourself out, but stay out of our schools with your anti-Pledge of Allegiance rants, out of our school curriculum with socialistic agendas, and can it on the “kook” Christian mantra! Has anyone thought about how since the anti-religious, wingnuts have removed the “Ten Commandments” and Pledge of Allegiance from out public schools, the children seem to be less disciplined, less respectful to their elders and in general a disgrace to their families?

Oh, and by the way, we ain’t listening to your advice on how to run the GOP! LOL! But thank ya anyway. It was awfully kind of ya to offer.

My state, Mississippi, is number one in giving to charities and we are the poorest state in the Union. We would give the shirts off our backs to someone less fortunate than ourselves, but we just as soon shoot you than allow you destroy the world, or our country. Which is why so many from the South think it is a very good idea to be in the military or the National Guard. We are passionate about America, and most of us are educated enough to know what socialism is when we here it and see it. WE got the Joe the Plumber comment from Obama, and we sure as hell knew what an unrepentent terrorist IS, and his name was Bill Ayers. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably is a duck! No nonsense and commons sense should have prevailed when it came to why one would not support Obama.

Despite the Jews in America feeling all warm and fuzzy over THE ONE; we also have tremendous reverence for the nation of Israel, and most of us sensed a very alarming friendship between Obama and one Rashid Khalidi. Obama as POTUS to most of us is not in the best interest of the one democracy in the Middle East that just so happens to be surrounded by some serious wackadoodles! What part of “wipe Israel off the face of the Earth!” did you people in the Blue States not get? Uh, we do not meet with folks like that down here without some serious pre-conditions. Anybody on the East Coast ever heard of Neville Chamberlain? Uh, we did down here! Funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

We have a fondness for the Constitution, history, and family roots. We take pride in where our ancestors came from and their struggles to make it in a country that offered religious shelter from religious tyranny and financial freedom from things like kings and such. We White folks at one time were down for the struggle as well. It was not all sunshine, rainbows and sweets for White people who migrated to this country. Once arriving, some were indentured servants and women in particular were sold much like slaves. From the beginning this nation took a terrible left turn regarding slavery, and we will forever be punished for this sin in the South by God, and by those who consistently label us as racist without know us, meeting us or for that matter visiting the South. Slavery is tied like a millstone around our necks, and there is no changing the minds of those that still view us as people living in the 1860’s.

We like humility from out leaders and not things like, “we are what we have been waiting for” and “a light will shine down from heaven and a voice will tell you, you must vote for Obama!”. Really? You think God is for Infanticide? You think God would be happy about a man that said if his children made a mistake that he would want them not to be punished- which translates to abort/kill his own grandchildren? If he would feel that way about his grandchildren then what makes you Obama people think he gives a rat’s ass about you? And what has he done for inner city schools? Has anyone asked what the results were from the Annenberg Challenge? Did the Chicago schools improve? Have you read Ayers’ book that Obama wrote a blurb for? What has he done for the Black families where the Grandparents are caring for the grandchildren that were kept and not aborted? What did he say during the campaign about Black on Black violence and the state of those Black youths in prisons? What does he plan on doing about the conditions of Blacks in cities like Detroit and Philadelphia were there is tremendous violence and extreme poverty type conditions? How about that Aunt and his half brother? We would never stand for having a family member live in those conditions! Not a Southerner! I am as white as Casper the Friendly Ghost, but I can promise you one thing, we Southern, Whiteys are very concerned about the state of the Black community and the attacks on them via illegals? Where is your MESSIAH on that, hmmmm?

I have a college degree and my husband has his Masters in Business. We are not ignorant because we like our religion, our guns and our Republic rights. Perhaps Jefferson was correct when he warned Adams about the possibility of Federalism becoming a behemoth. The level of hatred for our Republic and love for Federalism is becoming epic in nature and ideologies. The sheer loathing from some commenting here makes me believe we will end up at square one and my state will become my country before this is all over. The pendulum may be swinging in the direction of favoring socialism, hating Conservatism, hating the Southern states and loving the Europeanization of America, (been to Europe, I do not want to be like them!), but we are going to fight you tooth and nail you Obama worshippers! We love this country fiercely and that is NOT ignorance or racist!

Nov 15, 2008 - 2:04 pm 30. Bob F:

There is now and forever only one major party that has justifiably and without question earned the badge of ‘racist,’ and that is the Democratic Party. McCain could have driven by a ‘Denny’s’ where David Duke once had a ‘Grand Slam’ breakfast, and he would have been inexorably linked with the Klan and racial intolerance for the remainder of his career. Obama spends TWENTY YEARS in an organization that is admittedly race-based and whose guiding tenets (among many disturbing others) is the dstruction of the white race, and 52 percent of the population said, “Yeah, I guess I’m down with that” with their vote.

Game, set, match…

Nov 15, 2008 - 2:24 pm 31. Susan:

Thank you, Timothy Furnish, for this wonderful rebuttal to the trash talking about the South that is so in vogue amongst the intellectual elite of our nation.

Another divide in our country is between the big cities and those who live outside of them. Certainly it is true of my Southern state, where everyday urban mores and values are unacceptable, even still unthinkable, in the suburbs and exurbs as well as the rural areas. Here the concepts of God, Country, Motherhood and Apple Pie are alive and well. That is why McCain the War Hero and Palin the Savvy Supermom Who Does It All resonated with so many of us who voted for them (as opposed to voting against the color of Obama’s skin).

The oversimplification of all Southern Republican voters as hopelessly ignorant racists is so “out of touch” that it leaves this Southerner breathless…

To draw a slight parallel, should we infer that all of those who live in Washington, D.C., are atheists because they have not raised a national hue and cry against the new “holiday” advertisements on their city busses? (In case you haven’t heard, these ads proclaim that you don’t have to believe in a god – just be good for goodness’ sake, courtesy of the American Humanist Association.) I think not. It would likewise behoove the pundits to consider that there are countless diverse viewpoints in ALL regions of this country.

Nov 15, 2008 - 3:31 pm 32. josil:

For those GOPers with long memories, they will recall continuing battles between the conservative wing of the GOP and its “moderate” or northeast wing (cf Taft vs Dewey,Taft vs Eisenhower). They come together, reluctantly, when a nominee from one side or the other is favored by the “Gods”…sometimes Goldwater and Reagan, sometimes Bush or McCain. The only losing strategy I can detect is “to be more like the Democrats”. It’s not clear why liberal voters who are faced with a choice between Democrats and ersatz Rrepublicans would choouse the GOPer.

Nov 15, 2008 - 3:55 pm 33. Ms Attitude:

29. freeus: Amen!!!!

Nov 15, 2008 - 4:10 pm 34. Frank La Rocca:

Re: Susan, #31:

I live right in the belly of the beast – the San Francisco Bay Area. I am an Ivy-League educated college professor. Yet my values and worldview resonate much more with what is most characteristic of the South and the rural/semi-rural areas of the US. I have never lived in a small town. I have never lived anywhere but on one of the Coasts, yet I am a fly-over country kind of guy. So are any number of my friends. I cling bitterly to my religion : )

The country is not nearly as homogenous as the pundits assume- and as you point out – even in the bluest parts of the bluest states.

Nov 15, 2008 - 4:44 pm 35. Will Becker:

To me,the snobish left are ignorant ingrates,they don’t know that without the south in the Revolutionary war,we would still be under British rule. Best to imulate the south where there’s some backbone.

Nov 15, 2008 - 5:41 pm 36. daddy dave:

Horace Wells, James etc, are you people still being paid to come here and cause trouble, as was happening during the election? (I believe the term is “astroturfing”). Or are you now doing it on your own volition, time and money?

Nov 15, 2008 - 6:06 pm 37. Pat J:

I grew up in Texas. A country all to itself in some ways. The joke about Texas was it was like Mississippi only with better roads.

I never thought of Texas as part of the south in a land of cotton sort of way. Texas is a huge state. Alaska may be the largest state in the union in size but Texas is number 2 and has about 20 million more people.

Some think of the South and they think “backwater.” Texas has many backwaters. And they ain’t all whistlin’ Dixie.

Using Texas as an example, the GOP must never be seen as “Dixie.” This is a big country and the GOP at this and point almost has to rebuild itself. Dump the George Allen, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond. Avoid the Karl Rove and Ralph Reed. The GOP needs to sto being so lilly white. So blind conservative. So inflexible. Oe else become irrelevant.

Nov 15, 2008 - 6:29 pm 38. Gippergal:

Yes, the charming Frank Schaeffer also joined the “Republicans are backwater rubes” club, offering on Huffington Post a shocking appraisal of conservatives that painted any McCain voter as part of the Clampett family on the way to Beverly Hills.

The liberal illuminati are resorting to ridiculous ad hominems, which seems strange to me to choose as a course of action, after they’ve just won the election. Many columns, articles and blogs have graciously acknowledged the historical impact of Nov. 4, 2008, before continuing their usual op-ed pieces.

Nov 15, 2008 - 6:31 pm 39. wGraves:

All four of my great grandfathers fought in the Civil War, two for the North, and Two for the South. Of the Northerners, one died, and the other helped burn Atlanta and marched with Gen. Sherman. He enlisted in the GAR on his 21st birthday. He was one of three survivors of Co. E, Third Iowa Volunteers, mustering out as a seventh corporal. As a Republican, I believe he would be incensed if he knew how he was today being slandered. The old gentleman would have had a few choice words for these revisionists. The Republicans freed the slaves. They shed their blood. The Democrats fought against black freedom. That’s history. It doesn’t seem to interest anyone anymore.

Nov 15, 2008 - 8:05 pm 40. thegr8_1:

Number 21 Math genius not 52% is not a huge majority. 55 million of us will be back in 2010 and 2012 with Jindal, Palin, Pawlenty, Perry etc with some whoop@ss. Notice the best governors in this country are Republicans.
You all know where you can shove your censorship doctrine. I own a Japanese made car I do not want my tax dollars bailing out GM I already paid for a car. And bring back Spitzer as Attorney General and throw these idiots who caused this mess in jail including Frank, Dodd, Schumer, Paulson etc.

.

Nov 15, 2008 - 8:14 pm 41. Paul S.:

I grew up near Boston, moved to San Francisco in my early twenties, critical thinking finally set in, and I’m now long past ready to relocate away from Fantasy Island. The nonsense that passes for thought here would be comic if I could ignore the consequences; when belief rooted in emotion and impulse guides actions critical thought is shunned. Reality is a good teacher, but only if someone heeds its lessons.

I’ve added Tennessee and other red states to my Relocation bookmarks folder.

Nov 15, 2008 - 8:15 pm 42. Horace Wells:

Will Becker,
The Revolutionary War was fought and won mainly in the North, where it started. Most of the major battles, save Yorktown were fought north of the Mason Dixon and most of the important ones were fought in New York State. Get a library card and go to the library and read a little and try to expand your mind, cause your comment is totally wrong.

Daddy Dave,
What exactly are babbeling about? Unlike you, I am educated, intelligent honest and think for myself, I don’t need some semi-literate blogger or talk show host who fills empty heads with today’s Patriotically Correct slogans like so many folks here. BTW, I am neither a leftist or paid by anyone. But why ask or debate intelligently, put a label on me so you can safely ignore me. That is what small minds must do.

Finally for all you pathetic little whiners trying to don some undeserved victims crown because the NY Times slighted you, spare me your dishonest self pity. The Religious Right loves playing the martyr game, they can toss out the grenades all day with fire and brimstone, yet cry like little girls when some of it blows back. When Romney was running weren’t some of his oppositions from all those godly Bible Belt Huckahick types who think Mormonism is evil heresy. You people are as morally as you are intellectually bankrupt, you point fingers all day about how everyone else is evil then pretend you crap roses.

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:28 pm 43. Horace Wells:

kevin c:
It’s a good idea to actually think something coherent before typing and submitting. But you are truly the conservative base, common and base!

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:32 pm 44. fred:

I don’t know if the Republican Party will ever be strong again here in New Hampshire. The demographic changes are profound here and heavily favor the collectivist mindset. I’m actually a transplant from Massachusetts who was a Democrat and changed parties in 2002. Prior to 1987 I was Hard Left, as in “Marxist.” Yet, I did a long journey of very intensive thought-experiments with socialist ideology and eventually found it to be utterly false. I realize that most people will not or do not take this kind of journey and their allegiances are not necessarily based on an intensive intellectual exercise. They learn from experience that socialism fails, has failed, and always will fail, and I think the next four years is going to teach ‘em a lesson, even if Oobonga does not get all of what he wants put through.

The reason why Eastern Europeans are generally (except for the East Germans, for some strange reason) very hostile towards socialism is obvious: they lived under it and it left an indelible wound on their collective psyche. They are not open to another go round of it. They don’t succumb to the idiotic notions prevalent among U.S. Marxists: well, it failed because the wrong people were trying it and their incompetence and brutality caused it to fail. These people really do think that you can get it right. But the Eastern Europeans don’t think so. Thus, I am afraid that our people are going to have to learn it the hard way.

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:32 pm 45. Horace Wells:

Bob F
Wonderful irony, you attack the Democratic Dixiecratic racist past while defending the good old South. Funny how all those old racist Democratic areas somehow went GOP lately, wonder why? HMMMMMM

Nov 15, 2008 - 9:36 pm 46. JK:

Just saying,

You might want to re-check your History books. Oklahoma during the Civil War was not Union. Actually it wasn’t exactly Confederate either. However it might be noted that the “Five Civilized Tribes” did sign on with and supplied troops to the Confederacy’s TransMississippi theater.

Google Confederate General “Stand Watie” for instance, maybe “Albert Pike” even the Cherokee “John Ross” eventually signed on. Of course Ross was captured fairly early by Union forces, taken to DC and spent the rest of the war explaining his decision to go with the South.

Placing Missouri firmly in the ranks of the Union is a bit of a stretch too. “Sterling Price” for instance. “Jo Shelby” made an incursion into Missouri (if I remember correctly) in 1864 and gathered up a purt big number of volunteers.

Heck watch Clint Eastwood’s “Josey Wales” (I admit it-that ain’t in the History books.)

I did vote McCain by the way, I’m just a stickler on journalists’ not doing due diligence. I cringed too when Mr O claimed Malmedy was was an atrocity committed by Americans.

Nov 15, 2008 - 10:33 pm 47. Ms Attitude:

43. Horace Wells:

Well, Mr. Wells, since you are the spokesperson for Obama and the far left, tell us what this new administrations will do for us based on Obama’s past experience. This is your perfect opportunity to persuade the people that opposed his election. Please do not call me a name, I am not racist nor stupid nor backwards. Just give me a reason to believe in hope and change.

Nov 15, 2008 - 11:55 pm 48. JK:

#42 Mr Wells Sir,

You write, “The Revolutionary War was fought and won mainly in the North, where it started. Most of the major battles, save Yorktown were fought north of the Mason Dixon and most of the important ones were fought in New York State. Get a library card and go to the library and read a little…”

Good advice, have you renewed you card recently?
1775: The Revolution begins, not in NY, well actually no battles in NY that year. 1776: True five of the nine major engagemnets occurred in NY. 1777: Six of twelve. 1778: Zero of four. 1779: Three of six occurred in NY. 1780: Uh oh, another one of those zero years, six by the way. 1781: Oh my, another one of those zero years for NY, zero out of nine to be precise.

My math ain’t too good Mr Wells, let’s see, some 50 major engagements, 14 occurring in New York. I suppose my Southern calculator has problems your New York calculator doesn’t.

http://www.patriotresource.com/timelines/battles.html

But you go on, “Unlike you, I am educated, intelligent honest and think for myself…”

I suppose you may be correct on at least one of those three points, at least as it concerns myself. I can’t decide whether it is the first or the second though, you did seem to omit a comma.

Then this last, “Finally for all you pathetic little whiners… spare me your dishonest self pity.”

Mr Wells, I’ll attempt my best “liberalspeak.” Change the channel.

Nov 16, 2008 - 12:07 am 49. Will Becker:

Mr Wells,you sound like a know it all.Since I have southern roots,I love my country and don’t brag on my intelligence.

Nov 16, 2008 - 7:21 am 50. André Kenji:

It´s more complicated than that because the GOP is *losing* space in the Confederacy. Democrats dominates the politics in Arkansas and West Virginia in all levels and they only lose these states in the last presidential candidates because they keep choosing candidates that are extremely liberal for them.

In Texas and in Georgia the margin of defeat for Obama was in single digit margins. Considering the size of Hispanic Population in Texas and the expansion of Atlanta is just a matter of time to see these states voting Democratic.

Nov 16, 2008 - 10:09 am 51. view from afar:

Horace Well… the revolutionary war was maybe fought in the North, but you must have missed American History in your studies. Loads of southern miltias went North to help in the fighting, because they cared, as is stated about southerners in this article that you obviously forgot, or neglected to read. Just because it was a long time ago, people still travelled, and as the colonial population was mostly coastal, there existed ships to travel in (when there wasn’t British blockades)…but let’s not re-hash what we should have learned in American history class in tenth grade. ANd thank you jk.

Most people, southern, or rural midwesterns even, also have problems with this elitist ivy league educated bunch left and right, because the “ivy league and best schools” come off in that elitist, they are somehow superior to lesser mortals, more simply educated. I know many farmers all over the country who are sick of super educated ivy leaguers telling them what to do (its the same if not worse, here in France). Going back to the revolution, that is what it was fought over, the right to be self determined. And that is the key to reviving the GOP.

Hello Susan. Great to see you here, and thank you #34, for mentioning that stereo types( even mine) are always too general for the common good.

Nov 16, 2008 - 11:23 am 52. GOP Reaches More Than The South | Blue Grass, Red State:

[...] Kentuckian Timothy Furnish writes at Pajamas Media that “By equating red states with the Confederacy, pundits reveal their own ignorance and [...]

Nov 16, 2008 - 11:24 am 53. Will Becker:

It seems smart lady has a lot to learn.Stick around young lady,in a few months you’ll begin to wonder.

Nov 16, 2008 - 3:35 pm 54. Robert Hurley:

Obama is reported to have received 10% of the white vote in Alabama and 9% of the white vote in Mississippi. I would be interested in an anlysis of why his percentage of the white vote was so low in the South as opposed to the Northeast and West. Does the future of the Republican party lie with those folks? Current project show that the percentage of white voters will shrink to under 50% by 2050. How will that fact impact the policies put forward by conservatives?

Nov 17, 2008 - 10:36 am 55. Cousin Dave:

Robert Hurley: Obama received about 15% of the white vote in Alabama in the general election. However, he also recieved the majority of the white vote in the Alabama Democratic primary.

On the other hand, Obama received 97% of the black vote in Alabama, and one exit poll of about 400 black men couldn’t find a single one who voted for McCain.

So once whites are eliminated from America, who will everyone else blame all of their troubles on?

Nov 17, 2008 - 2:06 pm 56. Robert Hurley:

Cousin Dave – You propose a classic non sequitor

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:21 pm 57. Jason Sieckmann:

So what; there is truth to every stereotype.

California, is, to a large degree, full of hippies, ethnic gangs, and celebrities that know nothing about political theory; but are full of political opinion.

And, Alabama, is largely full of inbred, racist paleocons that have family in their background that was part of the KKK; and poor black people.

Maybe those people aren’t the throbbing business-hearts of those states, but they do make up a great deal of their populations. There is truth to every stereotype. People that say ‘fina’ tend to score lower than people that say “I’m going to do that.”

Don’t get mad; ask where it comes from and if it’s valid. You paint liberals as sissies; they paint you as hicks. You both deserve each other. Truthfully though, stop hurting America. Both of you. Start talking about political philosophy and theory instead of your own paid-off think tanks.

Go complain about the federal reserve board and I’ll listen. Are you really still hung up on this?

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:33 pm 58. Dave Surls:

‘Horton then went on to tar the South as “largely a backwater”’

The south was ruled with an iron hand by the Democrats for 150 years, so that’s hardly surprising.

‘And, Alabama, is largely full of inbred, racist paleocons that have family in their background that was part of the KKK; and poor black people.’

Like I said, the Democrats ran the south for 150 years. You can’t reasonably expect all the damage they did to magically vanish in an instant. It’ll take many more years for the south to fully recover from generations of Democrat misrule.

Nov 19, 2008 - 10:04 am 59. Tim:

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Aside from the Leftists who intentionally misconstrued or misrepresented my article, I found it interesting that almost no one made a big deal out of the fact that it is largely Southerners who man the U.S. military today. That is I think very troubling for the future of this country, when only one region–and the one still denigrated by the national intelligentsia–provides most of the military’s manpower. Opinions?

Nov 19, 2008 - 10:23 am

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