Pajamas Media

64 Comments

1. Larry:

Not only have lessons not been learned, America is sinking ever further into dhimmitude and wilfull blindness. America is becoming increasinlgy like Europe, the worse things get with the growth of radical Islam and its threats to our freedoms and our very lives, the more the Obama administration frets about Israel and the Jews.

It’s all going to blow up in our faces, and even after that we still won’t learn anything, just like nothing has been learned from the nightmare of WW2.

Sep 11, 2009 - 1:52 am 2. Larry:

To add something, the lessons of 9-11 have not been lost, since no lessons were learned in the first place. You can’t lose something you never found in the first place.

Sep 11, 2009 - 1:56 am 3. Naftali:

I’m not sure we ever really learned the lessons of 9/11. Instead of the country rallying as it did in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor, we began a civil war, where the executive branch was at odds with the State Department, the Military was at odds with the intelligence community, and a wave of hatred blew across the country like a tornado through Kansas. Muslims were not the target of the hatred to our credit, but every conceivable group found itself pitted against its mirror political image, and any civil discourse became impossible.

I think the reason, one reason, is that the terrorists fought us with small strategy, as opposed the the big power of the ex-USSR. We are vulnerable to what is small, both politically, and biologically–a simple common cold can lay us up for a week.

We did not recognize the basic post WWII alliance between the US and Europe was over and had been for some time. We did not understand that our institutions, such as the courts, and the government were caught completely unprepared. The growth of Iran in nearly ten years has shown us the inherent sloth of big government, while the terrorists adapt quickly.

Essentially, we had become a country locked into one way of thinking, and even thought the need for change was evident, change to what?

The reduction came to a matter of fighting or giving up, and we simply did not have the accidental training of the WWII generation that so easily led them into combat mode.

Right now foreign and domestic policy is weighted towards the autocratic, the abusers of human rights, the murderers of the world. Although the US government doesn’t out and out support the Taliban, they do support those who provide financial backing for the terrorists.

Both political parties have shown a lack of will in even trying to formulate a different path. Bin Laden did not just strike the World Trade Center, he struck at the fundamental weakness of the western worldview. Bin Laden expected chaos to follow, and it did. Even if he had the technology to do the same thing, he wouldn’t have dared provoke my father’s generation the way he has provoked the Baby Boomers.

The US is not without hope, but that hope does not lie with the government or our established institutions. I believe the hope sits in certain science labs and in the offices of some venture capitalists. That is, the first step is to change our energetic infrastructure.

The attempts to rework the political atmosphere of the Middle East, although well intentioned, hasn’t really worked to the point of effectiveness.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:08 am 4. Poor Citizen:

To add to what Larry says. Bush had such a great opportunity to begin to change the mind set of our land from the worship and dependence on big oil but the task was too mentally challenging for him and his cronies. So we wasted all our money, time and resources on the money pit of waste, and now…have nothing to show for it. However, I am optomistic that our people and our government may one day wake up and start to remove this axis of evil oil worship from around our national necks. The only thing stopping us is our national will.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:47 am 5. vivo:

Different people remember 9/11 in different ways.

There is no question that the families of the 3,000 people who died are still mourning them because it was a senseless act.

The financial damage in NYC runs into the billions of dollars. The attack prompted more expenditures all across the country into even more billions of dollars for security, anti-terrorism measures and huge military spending, specially with the invasion of Iraq.

Many Americans forget easily. Their busy lives and personal problems drown major events. After months and years of overanalyzing, listening to discredited fearmongers, and the discovery that the war rules have changed, this event has become one of many items in the History of the USA.

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:51 am 6. Old Soldier:

“Are We Getting Complacent?” Barak Hussein Obama is President. We are investigating CIA interrogators instead of terrorists. Iran is about to start producing nuclear weapons and all we do is try to keep Israel from attacking them.

If you hold told me any of this 8 years ago, I would have assumed we lost a war.

Sep 11, 2009 - 4:16 am 7. Francis W. Porretto:

Not all of us have “lost the impact” of Black Tuesday, September 11, 2001. No, not nearly all of us.

Sep 11, 2009 - 5:09 am 8. ETAB:

Poor citizen – the cause of 9/11 wasn’t our (western) ‘worship and dependence on big oil’(do you drive a car, use a computer and actually live in this industrial world?). After all, our industrial lifestyle is based around oil/gas as its energy source. This isn’t an evil; it’s a fact.

To move to another source of energy fuel requires years, decades of research and remodeling of our industrial components.

What you are ignoring is the real cause of Islamic fascism, which has nothing to do with the West and is based within the Islamic world – its worship and dependency on tribalism as a political system and that system’s foundation in ‘big oil’.

Tribalism, which is a mode of political governance based on an elite tribe/set of people in dictatorial control over the ‘mass’…means that no middle class can exist. All power is in the hands of an elite…and oil has kept them in power..whether as dictators or kings. This repression of power from the majority of the population is the basic cause of Islamic fascism.

Solution? Enable democracy to emerge in those areas, to give power to the middle class. Nothing to do with ‘big oil’ but with who controls the ‘oil’ – a middle class or an elite tribe.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:23 am 9. stuff:

Last night I was remembering what it felt like watching the twin towers of the WTC collapse on TV and I became very angry.

Then I remembered sitting here this week watching the stupid smirk on that big eared punk from Chicago’s face as he addressed Congress and I felt like I needed to vomit.

Which impact has been lost?

September 11th, 2001 or our soul’s?

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:25 am 10. BC:

I’m tempted to make another snarky comment at yet more boneheaded comments about Obama, but there are a few more reasoned comments here than is usual for PJM. After a very bitter and very divisive election, 9/11 did very much unite almost everyone of all political stripes and philosophies. This wasn’t some complicated, arguable politics-ridden misadventure involving Latin America, Africa, the Middle East or such, but a bold, no-nonsense, in your face attack on not just US soil, but on its symbols. It was a time for all political BS to be put aside and get serious. And at first that’s what we did. An ultimatum to the Taliban to give up Bin Laden, pressure on Pakistan to cooperate, and when the Taliban didn’t cooperate, a call to arms and a swift beat down on both the Taliban and al-Qaeda forces in Afghanistan. And as to the site of the fallen World Trade Towers, there were all these bold plans to replace them with something even more soaring to become an even greater symbol of America. But roll ahead several years, and….

Another bitter election with even more divisive politics, although in a near complete reversal in philosophy and sides of the first one, a revived and wearying war in Afghanistan thanks to the prior administration not exactly keeping its attention there, delays and cutbacks in vision regarding getting anything done at the World Trade Towers site, permanent and eyerollingly inefficient delays at airports, and bin Laden still on the loose. What have we learned?

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:37 am 11. ricpic:

Meanwhile terrorists pour across the border daily and have established god only knows how many cells throughout the country. All they await is the word go from the multi-headed Al Queda/Chavez/Putin/Ahmawhatsisname/Kim Il Jong monster.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:37 am 12. william:

There are many of us who have not forgotten!

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:39 am 13. genghis:

MOHO:

‘discredited fear mongers’? You mean those who pointed out the obvious dangers, and took responsibility for putting in place measures that protected us form further attack? Acted to uncover and abort other planned attacks? It’s too bad their success saved your sorry ass.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:45 am 14. vonschtead:

I will not forget OR forgive! ALL the media should show movies about what happened. Show people jumping to their deaths, show the collapse of the towers carrying thousands of innocents to their deaths. Show it all!

If islam won’t correct the “abberant” radical islam, than we should do the job for them without apologies. When was the last time you saw the Catholic Church support abortion clinic bombings?

And don’t drag up the crusades. If that bunch of ignorant tribesmen want to live in the 12th century, let ‘em!

And the next time a natural disaster hits, let us keep our “infidel” charity for our own.

Lastly, somebody should tell Obama (who sent that witless stooge Biden to speak in NYC) that today should not be a a day of “service” it is and always should be a day or remembrance!!!!!!!!!!

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:03 am 15. Thomas_L......:

The only discredited fear mongers that I can think of are Al Gore and company, who want us to believe that global warming is more dangerous than fanatical young men filled and fueled with hatred.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:16 am 16. Will:

It seems the ignorant sheep of America are leading instead of the sheep dogs.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:16 am 17. BettyBlue:

Forget Moho—he’s a Moslem, he’s going to stick up for his co-religionists, no matter what. It’s what he does.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:19 am 18. ked5:

It is less about complacency, and more about we now have a muslim in the WH. He’s the all powerful oz, and with him at the helm, everyone will love america. (/sarc) He’s undermining our intelligence serivce and our military. We’re in more danger today than we have been since 9/10/2001.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:47 am 19. ked5:

9. stuff:

Last night I was remembering what it felt like watching the twin towers of the WTC collapse on TV and I became very angry.

~~~~~

I was able to tour the McChord Air Force Museum several weeks ago. There is a very simple 9/11 display – and as I looked at it, I also felt VERY angry, and was brought to tears. I also felt a great deal of anger at the traitor in the WH who will open us up to more attacks of that kind.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:53 am 20. Kingston53:

What really saddens me is the awareness of how tawdry politics has become. There are no good stewards of the national interest. Our politicans will do anything to stay in power so they can continue to bask in their elite status while enriching themselves and their allies. Everything they do is based on what is good for them. Self sacrifice is for the other guy. So while our men in arms risk their lives overseas, the polical class drain the energy out of this once proud nation. This nation is being brought to its knees by a thousand blows as they add to the tax and regulatory burden, stifle the entreprenuerial spirit and thwart every effort to make us energy independent. I am fearful that when the people wake up, it will be too late for a full recovery.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:55 am 21. prophet666:

one should first remember those killed in these attacks and their dependants these are the people most effected as they have direct experiance of shock and pain which only a loved one will know.

Sep 11, 2009 - 8:39 am 22. Markus:

Here are the lessons I learned: we should stop interfering in other countries affairs and secure our own borders. Two things neocons are usually opposed to. Thankfully, 9/11 has turned a few open borders/creedal nation advocates into semi-patriots on immigration policy.

Sep 11, 2009 - 8:43 am 23. Dale:

Sorry, nice try, but the lesson of 9/11 is not “Let’s y’all rememmer to keep hatin’ them Mooslims”.

The lesson is “Let’s all be smarter, more alert, and more cooperative so that we as private citizens/law enforcement/government agencies can work together to share information, connect the dots and see the signs that will allow us to prevent future acts of violence and terror against American citizens.”

Terror comes in all colors and flavors, whether it be from Muslim extremists, pissed-off high-school kids with assault rifles, white supremacists who murder black security guards in Jewish museums, fascists who murder abortion doctors, and retarded lawmakers who call for hunting tags to be made bearing the name of the President of the United States.

Sep 11, 2009 - 8:49 am 24. Thomas_L.......:

Dale – Don’t tell me! Obamaist, right? Do you think he should commemorate the event with another apology?

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:12 am 25. chiefpayne:

Are we getting complacent?

Well, I don’t know about the American population, but I sure do think our GOVERNMENT who is supposed to be protecting us sure is!

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:32 am 26. Dale:

24. Thomas_L…….: “Dale – Don’t tell me! Obamaist, right? Do you think he should commemorate the event with another apology?”

Naw, he should should commemorate the event by telling everyone to just go shopping.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1872229_1872230_1872236,00.html

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:37 am 27. Bilgeman:

If you are attacking other Americans on this day, any Americans and for whatever reason, not only have you totally lost the lesson of what it meant to be targeted because you were American, but you are betraying the spirit of those valiant moonbats and wingnuts who lost their lives trying to save each other in New York and Arlington, and our fellow citizens aboard United Flight 93 who gave us the only victory we had that day.

Just stand together united in their memory.

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:46 am 28. David H:

Vivo, you say it was a senseless act, but those who had studied Islam understand exactly what it was and why it was done, once you read the Quran, study the aHadiths and work back all this in Islamic history, it is certainly not a senseless act at all. “I have been made victorious through terror…”, I wonder who said that? What about the offer to accept Islam sent to the Persian and Byzantium Emperors, but I am sure you do not have a clue what I am talking about…

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:50 am 29. ETAB:

Dale – certainly, being ’smart and alert’ are commendable but these alone will not stop attacks on our people.

Furthermore, to equate the 9/11 attacks, which were ideological, with individual deranged attacks, is incorrect.

With regard to ideological attacks, and particularly those from Islamic fasism, Ii think that you have to disable the root causes of such facism. That is, it’s not enough to be ‘always alert’; you have to realize what causes such an ideology of destruction and work to reduce it.

The cause is lack of democracy and a middle class in the Muslim nations – and that’s what has to be dealt with. As for the radicalism of Muslims in the West, we in the West have to reject cultural relativism and multiculturalism, and insist, as does Australia, that all people follow the rules and cultural norms of our country (rule of law, equality of gender, etc).

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:51 am 30. elvis:

There are many who are complacent but we have not forgotten!

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:54 am 31. chambers:

Complacency is the wrong word to describe our situation. For the first time in memory we are living in a “neo-isolationist” era. The Obama administration has sent a clear and undeniable message that it is unconcerned with foreign affairs other than to engage in the usual international kultursmog of vapid rhetorical banalities. The administration will pay lip service to the need for “human rights” but we all know that this is a dead issue with them. Mr. Obama and his key advisers are products of the half-century old revisionist “tradition” that holds the U.S. responsible for pretty much all of the worlds ills since about 1900. As a result It is fair to say that this administration believes, as a matter of intellectual principle, that the U.S. simply has no right to interject itself into any foreign arena even if the purpose of such an intervention is to stave off terrorist attack. Consequently we are not so much complacent as paralyzed.

Sep 11, 2009 - 9:58 am 32. Free Quark:

We are in a war against a ruthless enemy. It is absurd to have public commemorations of his most successful attack.

Move the memorials and such to private catering halls please, and let’s not give joy to the enemy by showing him how sad he made us.

Dale;

Bad analogy. None of those ‘terrorist’ incidents recieved widespread public approval as did the Sept 11 attacks, which had Arabs and other Muslims passing out candy and dancing in the street.

The fact is that too many Muslim countries are chock full of horribly bigoted people.

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:09 am 33. Scott:

BC wrote:

“a revived and wearying war in Afghanistan thanks to the prior administration not exactly keeping its attention there”

Do you have any understanding of the difficulties involved in fighting a war in Afghanistan? The terrain is rugged and mountainous, the government is practically non-existent, most of the country lacks any real modern infrastructure outside of cities, the enemy is on their home turf, there are many caves & tunnels remaining from the Soviet occupation for their use, and there are tribal & family ties that trump any national allegiance. In addition to that Pakistan provides a safe haven for recruitment, rest, re-arming, and planning where we cannot send troops without possibly provoking war.

Its not a question of “attention” but rather of practicality. We cannot “conquer” Afghanistan in the traditional sense due to our own political, social, and national values. The Soviets had problems with this region but probably could have conquered it if not for our intervention since they lack the moral hangups and political interference that binds the US’s hands when fighting an offensive war.

Iraq whether intentional or not was a good move in terms of strategy, it took many of the hardened and experienced fighters and leadership out of Afghanistan where they had the many advantages listed previously and put them in an area where they had much fewer. It also caused them to adopt policies that alienated many other Muslims, such as oppression, murder, and torture of other Muslims. Many of the AQ leadership and fighters that went to Iraq died there leaving a less experienced fighting force for us to face in Afghanistan.

If you think Iraq casualties were bad then you’d have lost it over the numbers that would have come flowing (and are likely to begin flowing in the near future) from Afghanistan had we stayed there and never went in to Iraq. The “Surge” worked in Iraq but will fail in Afghanistan and American heroes will pay the price because politicians, the American people, and “political” generals do not understand the nature of the battle and will use ill suited strategies.

“Nation building” will not work in Afghanistan because the nation requires “centuries” of development that Iraq which was modern in comparison did not. Many of the Afghan people are living almost exactly the same as they did 500 years ago, thus their world view is tribal and not even close to “national”. The Afghan government is terribly corrupt and has little control outside of the capital. Its not like Iraq where its a matter of mostly restoring security and infrastructure, we have to basically bring most of the population out of the 7th century.

In addition there are people who don’t like the Taliban who fight on their side because they pay well, their money comes from Pakistan, the drug trade, and other sources whom we probably know about but don’t want to admit to. The Chinese and USSR did it to us in Korea and Vietnam, we did it to the Soviets in Afghanistan, and it would be naive to think that other nations aren’t doing it to us now. Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, and even the Saudis can all gain from a US defeat or even just bleeding us into another Vietnam.

The American people and politicians do not have the will to actually do what it takes to win in Afghanistan and build it into a functioning nation, let alone our NATO “allies”. Our soldiers can accomplish this, they are the best in the world, but they lack the leadership and backing of “national will” to do so. We will pull out of Afghanistan in defeat inside of 3 years, mark my words.

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:13 am 34. alex:

John O Neil, FBI

If you don’t know who he is, you should. He is the one man that tried to stop what was coming, and nobody listened. Read about him, and the tragic consequences when leadership ignores foot soldiers.

If anything is to be learned, its to listen to people with their feet on the ground. I read well meaning articles about Mr. Rumsfeld, Vice President Cheney, Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama. These leaders made / making huge mistakes in running the nation, because they don’t listen to people with their feet on the ground.

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:40 am 35. David H:

33. Spot on, you also need to look into the Pashtun tribe and how their struggles for control and power impacts the conflict. I think that it needs a period of total war, but that will never happen…

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:44 am 36. BettyBlue:

David H., no Vivo doesn’t get it. This was not a senseless act. For one thing, the date. The terrorists didn’t just choose September 11th at random, that date is significant for Islam. (And, Vivo, if you don’t know why, go google it.)

Sep 11, 2009 - 10:47 am 37. Scott:

David H:

“Spot on, you also need to look into the Pashtun tribe and how their struggles for control and power impacts the conflict. I think that it needs a period of total war, but that will never happen…”

I was alluding to the Pahstun people when I mentioned the tribal ties, but because the average person probably have never heard of them and the length of my post I didn’t get into them. I also agree that total war is part of the equation, however we are so “anti-Colonial” and PC that making Afghanistan an American colony in order to build it up to a semblance of a modern state is impossible. Their government is not based upon rule of law but more of a tribal structure with laws tacked on, at least in practice. It is why the government is so corrupt.

We’ve succeeded in nation building (or re-building) before, but where we’ve been successful the infrastructure has existed already (Europe, Japan, Iraq) and/or we’ve shared “western” culture/tradition with them such as Germany & Italy. Afghanistan shares little in the way of “western” culture or religion and has little to no infrastructure in a good portion of the nation. Trying to do so without making Afghanistan a US colony/protectorate with American governors will fail because of the lack of a “national” identity and strong national government based upon law rather than tribal tradition and favoritism.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:55 am 38. Dale:

32. Free Quark: “Dale;

Bad analogy. None of those ‘terrorist’ incidents recieved widespread public approval as did the Sept 11 attacks, which had Arabs and other Muslims passing out candy and dancing in the street.

Really? I was here at PJM the day after Tiller was murdered, and literally every other post was a celebratory one.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:59 am 39. njcommuter:

The first step in forgetting is to call the acts of 9/11 a tragedy. We must speak the truth. The destruction of the WTC, the attack that could have destroyed the Pentagon and the attack that did not reach the White House or the Capitol were atroctities, not tragedies.

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:07 pm 40. Abu Infidel:

Dale;

Yep, I also saw thousands of anti-abortion people shooting off fireworks and honking their car horns in gleeful celebration of Tiller’s death.

Didn’t you see that on TV too?

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:12 pm 41. Steve DeMarcus:

Darryl Worley said it best at the below link, being from Nashville this comes to mind quite a bit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdznv9Q6o9s

Also I can not leave out Tobe Keith below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSWuA-RttGU

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:26 pm 42. DoctorT:

The problems aren’t simply one of forgetting the events of 9/11/2001, but in my opinion there is currently an active attempt to suppress any attention to 911. It probably walks hand in hand with the Left’s attempt to demonize President Bush and Vice President Dich Cheyney, and Donlad Rumsfeld.

The weak position of President Obama to prostrate America to all countries by taking the position that we are at fault for transgressions against the rest of the world goes along with Reverend Wrights preachings that America got what was coming to it.

Even worse, President Obama makes cursory attention to 911 and at the same time wants to change the complexion and attention of 911 by changing it to a “Day of Service” to the community. This is no different than what Christianity did by making Jesus Christ’s birthday 12/25/09. No one really knows the actual date of Jesus’ Birthday, but the celebration of that day was intentionally placed near the Pagan, Jewish, and Muslim winter holidays in order to try and decrease attention to those celebrations. It appears this Administration wants us to all forget 911.

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:42 pm 43. Sherab Zangpo:

Complacent ?
I don’t think so.
Rather, if I can say the truth, many have got into what is properly called Stockholm Syndrome:
few at each given time, are Warriors.
The large majority lives of fear.
This fear elects HUSSEIN president.

It’s a natural reaction after a monstrous attack like 9/11.

It will take time to build the defense of the West against the islamic attack.
It will take generations.

BUT LET US REMEMBER THE VICTIMS

LET US REMEMBER THE FIRST BATTLE WE WON AGAINST THE ISLAMISTS: FLIGHT 93

LET US REMEMBER THE AMERICAN WARRIORS WHO HAVE FOUGHT IN THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE WORLD TO DEFEND FREEDOM
AND THE AMERICAN WARRIORS WHO ARE STILL FIGHTING AND WILL FIGHT TOMORROW

Thank you for the opportunity to comment

Sep 11, 2009 - 12:43 pm 44. Jake Was Here:

Rev 3:15-19

Sep 11, 2009 - 1:34 pm 45. Scott:

LET US REMEMBER THE FIRST BATTLE WE WON AGAINST THE ISLAMISTS: FLIGHT 93

Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.

Sep 11, 2009 - 1:38 pm 46. malclave:

@23

And liberal “commenters” on the internet.

Sep 11, 2009 - 1:45 pm 47. Dave Bender:

Exclusive Audio: 9/11/01: Reactions To Horror in Jerusalem’s Old City – Jewish, Arab, Christian

Podcast: http://www.davebrianbender.com

“On the evening of September 11th, 2001, I visited Jerusalem’s Old City to gather reactions in the wake of the attacks, as a reporter for The Jerusalem Post newspaper. While some Palestinians celebrated, calling it a fitting response to US support for Israel, other Christian and Muslim Arabs were dismayed by the scope of the horror.

“The experience was, for me and photojournalist Mati Milstein, one non-stop, audio-grabbing lope from the Damascus to the Zion Gates through the echoing length of the Old City’s exotic warrens and souk:”…

Read More and Podcast: http://www.davebrianbender.com

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:04 pm 48. BC:

To Scott: You’re doing an awful lot of supposing and guesswork there, most of it not supported. Yeah, Iraq drew in a lot of bad guys wanting to get in on the party, but look at the consequences in terms of US casualties and especially those of Iraqi civilians, as well as US prestige. And never mind the evidence or lack thereof for justifying the invasion in the first place. Afghanistan, though, was a fair bust — nobody but nobody begrudge us going in because it was legitimate: we were hit bad and the guy primarily responsible was in Afghanistan and protected by the people ruling Afghanistan, and they weren’t giving him up. Nothing complicated in that scenario. The ferocity of our attack really took them by surprised and they basically just scattered. *That* was when we should have put our full resources into hunting them all down, and if we had, it would have been a virtual gimme that bin Laden would have been captured or dead by now, and more certainly al-Qaeda virtually destroyed as any sort of real threat.

But….we didn’t do that, did we?

Sep 11, 2009 - 2:30 pm 49. Scott:

To BC:

Supposing & guesswork? Where?

You seem to forget that all those “bad guys” would have either remained in Afghanistan or gone there instead of to Iraq. Casualties would have been much greater as we are already starting to see, there is little guesswork or supposition in that. You mention Iraqi casualties but seem to ignore that Saddam Hussein was killing his own people by the thousands, so basically that is a wash in terms of human cost. Yes that’s a cold assessment but it is accurate. Also many Iraqi casualties were the result of sectarian violence and AQ not Coalition troops.

It was also generally accepted by most intelligence communities that Saddam possessed WMDs and was pursuing nuclear weapons. Even Pelosi, Kennedy, and many other Democrats are on record prior to 9/11 saying as much. Yellow cake uranium was found in significant quantities and sent to Canada for disposal, this was material that could have been used to produce nuclear weapons. Even without the WMD factor a brutal dictator and violator of human rights was disposed and tired for his crimes, aren’t human rights important to liberals?

US Prestige? The only people whom the US lost “prestige” with was the leftists and socialist politicians in Europe and the US. Unless we’re moving towards socialism/communism we could do nothing right for those people anyway so it really doesn’t matter what they think. In fact the current shift to the right in the EU actually demonstrates that the US was right and won more prestige in the eyes of the people of the EU and that they’re waking up to their own failed leftist governments. They see the US taking their own primrose path and are scared to death that the American security umbrella is going away.

Do you really believe that it would be that simple to find bin Laden? If someone wants to hide in the mountains, has the aid of people who know the terrain, and can hide an another country where we cannot go they’re going to be nearly impossible to find.

Sep 11, 2009 - 3:11 pm 50. Malcom Z.:

Of course it’s complaceny. That’s what too many of our fellow Americans do well. Memories are short and attention span is narrow. I cannot count how many people I’ve spoken to, who are in their 20’s and simply do not care. It’s “like whatever”.

We have a president who believes that a YouTube video is going to have an impact in diplomacy…Laughable in a very sad way.

Sep 11, 2009 - 3:13 pm 51. Brian:

Dale,

You neglected to mention whites that are brutally tortured, mutilated and murdered by blacks..

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp

as well as the pro-life man that was murdered this morning..

http://www.lifenews.com/state4409.html

bty, there is no such thing as an “assault weapon”. That is a made up description used to foment fear.

Sep 11, 2009 - 3:16 pm 52. BC:

To Scott: it *is* guesswork, and not too logical — the Iraq war not only gave al-Qaeda greater area to work from outside of their Afghan and Pakistani bases, but apparently actually helped al-Qaeda with its recruitment. And it was *not* “also generally accepted by most intelligence communities that Saddam possessed WMDs and was pursuing nuclear weapons” especially so after the Afghanistan invasion when intel gathering ramped up and pretty much all of it was pointing away from Iraq as not only having no WMD program, but also no ties to any terrorist groups outside of the Palestinians. What Pelosi, Kennedy or whoever *thought* might have been the case is utterly irrelevant to what Bush and his people thought, and they easily had the best, most up to date intel, and that intel apparently put a lie to their BS claims.

Sep 11, 2009 - 4:54 pm 53. Leatherneck:

At another web site called Dr. Bulldog, and Ronin,(dam fine Americans), an individual posted about every eight years the warriors for allah try to hit the enemy. Scary stuff, if you wish to read it.

My point is the eight years which is the subject of this thread. Mohamed was run out of Media, but returned eight years later with a army, and sacked it.

Perhaps, 93-2001 was eight years, and now we have 2001-2009. If correct, we could see the lovers of allah the moon god strike at their enemys again some time soon. We could then relearn the lesson of 9-11 all over again.

Sep 11, 2009 - 6:31 pm 54. myth buster:

Nuke the bastards. We win if they have to trade a brigade for a man.

Sep 11, 2009 - 7:45 pm 55. vivo:

28. David H:
36. BettyBlue:

“Vivo, you say it was a senseless act, but those who had studied Islam understand exactly what it was and why it was done,”

What I meant is that it was senseless to the victims families. I understand it was not senseless to the Islamic group, they planned and knew that this was going to be their most brilliant attack with enormous ROI.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:04 pm 56. Pragmatist:

The greatest lesson which should have been learned was that its Islam that is dangerous, not ‘radical’ Islam not ‘misunderstood’ Islam not ‘militant’ Islam not ‘moderate’ Islam just ISLAM they are all one and the same just read the book its all in there just like it was in Hitlers Mein Kampf.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:28 pm 57. Pragmatist:

When we fought the Germans we did not fight ‘BlitzKrieg’ we fought NAZISM because we know that that was the IDEOLOGY drives the atrocity we did not call them ‘misuderstanders’or ‘fanatics’ and praise NAZISM . When we fought the Japanese we did not fight the Concentration Camp tortures we fought the IDEOLOGY BUSHIDO we did not praise the Emperor and his ruling ideological CULT. So why now are we asked to EXCUSE and PRAISE the EVIL IDEOLOGY that drives TERRORISTS??????? I will tell you why because PC MC left wing’libtard’ moonbats have completely corrupted Western thinking and destroyed pride.

Sep 11, 2009 - 11:37 pm 58. David H:

Scott, your a very clued up chap.

BC, have you read up about the Assassins, you should do, especially how they were viewed by other Muslims, then think again about AQ in Iraq, then get your brain in gear.

Sep 12, 2009 - 2:03 am 59. genghis:

PRAGMATIST

You are right and you are wrong. There were some ‘good Germans’ but they were easily cowered into passivity. What percentage of the German populace falling into that category is certainly open to arguement. And I suspect the same question re the greater Islamic community. That being said, the great lesson of WW II is; when in doubt, eliminate them. You can always apologize after.

Sep 12, 2009 - 3:03 pm 60. Lee Wacker:

B.C.: DON’T step in front of my car! I shall be very happy to run you over, and then stomp on what’s left!

Pragmatist: Good comment! As far as Japan goes, though, I still wish there had been a bomb dropped into Mt. Fuji–that thing is just TOO perfect! Really bothers me!

As for 9/11, I have a video shot that day by someone attached to the firefighters. The first man to come out of the clouds of smoke and dust was a Muslim–a very frightened, confused Muslim. I doubt greatly that he would have condoned what happened. Yes, I believe people are getting far too complacent, far too tunnel-visioned, far too involved in their own lives. December 7, 1941 began like any other Sunday, just as September 11, 2001, Tuesday began. Things changed very rapidly. According to the Border Patrol, three out of every ten border jumpers are foreign terrorists. It is possible these are grouping together, just waiting for the word to strike—and if I am right, that word will be coming soon. Our government is weak, self-serving, in denial, and only a heavy-handed attack against this country will waken them. I doubt if the “president” will react in any way but to write a very erudite, elitist essay on the subject—just as he did on September 11, 2001. He doesn’t care, he won’t fight, he won’t recognize the danger. His “service” idea for 9/11 just boils down to the one thing he wants dearly for this country—Slavery–in its worst forms! Benign at first, then steadily worsening! Watch and see!

Sep 13, 2009 - 3:56 pm 61. BC:

To Lee Wacker: Pretty wacked out comment there. And for all your chattering about 9/11, you are kind of skipping over the obvious — the guy behind it is not only still on the loose, but he’s still making threats and snarky remarks. Get it through your dopey, threatening, clueless head: Iraq had nothing to with 9/11, but Afghanistan did since that is where bin Laden made his base and where he was protected by the Taliban.

After the initial bombing and beat down, Bush very, VERY prematurely turned his attention to Iraq to implement this stupid, standing PNAC policy desire.

Let me ask you this — when Obama escalated the Afghanistan war, including expanding incursions further into Pakistan than Bush ever did in order to go after the al-Qaeda and the Taliban hiding there, were you happy that we were back focusing on the people responsible for 9/11, or did cognitive dissonance kick in to make you want to invade another country that bin Laden has nothing to do with?

Sep 14, 2009 - 8:11 am 62. goy:

@61. BC: – for all your chattering about 9/11, you are kind of skipping over the obvious — the guy behind it is not only still on the loose, but he’s still making threats and snarky remarks.

No. Pay attention. The guy behind the 9/11 attacks has been in U.S. custody for quite a long time now. And he wasn’t in A-stan, he was in Kuwait.

The guy who ordered the attacks is unaccounted for, and there’s no confirmation that the latest recording is actually OBL’s voice. Appropriate, though, that the message points out yet another one of BHO’s failures to live up to his campaign pledges.

And the people who were actually responsible for 9/11 are all dead now. Get it through your dopey, gullible, dysfunctional head: Saddam wasn’t ousted because he was involved in 9/11. “Containment” failed. Military force worked. Get over it.

Sep 14, 2009 - 9:34 am 63. BC:

To goy: This is the guy behind the attacks and these are the people who protected him and supported al-Qaeda. What part are you not understanding? And are referring to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as being the the real guy behind the 9/11 attacks? Think again (well, just think, period): he only worked for bin Laden and thought of himself as a “super terrorist”, and he was also tortured into claiming lots of stuff, including beheading Daniel Pearl, which he didn’t do.

And your comments about Hussein are just as deranged and factless — as more and more documents become declassified, if it wasn’t clear enough for all you slack-jawed numbnuts back at the time, it should be now: Bush lied his ass off about everything Iraq-related.

Sep 14, 2009 - 5:36 pm 64. goy:

@63. BC: – This is the guy behind the attacks…

Hardly. Try to keep up. OBL was a commander, not an ops guy. If you got your information from somewhere other than sites filled with self-righteous editorials alleging conspiracy theories, you’d know that. “Confessing” false information under duress is specifically intended to taint other information that might be provided. If you had any MI experience whatsoever, you might have guessed this. But you don’t. The fact that you discount everything based on one or two verifiable lies, clearly provided to confuse the interrogators, demonstrates that you haven’t a clue what’s involved in intelligence gathering, putzie. Real life isn’t 24.

Sep 14, 2009 - 8:09 pm

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