Pajamas Media

162 Comments

1. view from afar:

As an American, living abroad, I believe that if you serve in a foreign government you have renounced your American citizenship…. So mayor of London hasn’t been that type of act?
France is the same, you get the feeling that if Obama doesn’t win, that they shall declare war on the US, a big media war, for sure, it worked their constant haragning (sp) on BUSH and they figure they’ll be able to throw out any republican government that the Yanks elect, because it affronts their socialist morals.

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:46 am 2. Democrats On Best Political Blogs » Blog Archive » European Obamaphiles Trash the U.S.:

[...] European Obamaphiles Trash the U.S. Prominent Europeans endorsing Obama? Fine. But pontificating about “American racism” crosses the line. [...]

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:13 am 3. Sunday:

Hey, Carol Gould:

If you’re so, “sick and tired of Britons and Europeans pontificating about “American racism’ “, why the heck don’t you stop listening to – and further broadcasting – trash from SOCIALIST rags like The Guardian?

Europeans have enough problems of their own…they just are more vocal about their Leftist knee-jerk “projection” and “looking at the faults of others.”

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:20 am 4. Snorri Godhi:

Frankly, I am sick and tired of articles that purport to be about “Europeans” and turn out to be entirely about English people, with a few Americans thrown in for good measure.

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:32 am 5. windy blow:

Not everyone in the UK (I cannot speak for Europe, which is a strange and self-centred place anyway) is pro-Obama – though reading left-leaning opinion-sheets like The Guardian and The Independent or listening to the appalling BBC would encourage you think everyone here is against McCain.

I note you mentioned the lunatic Monbiot early in your piece, but the man has nothing valuable to say and is often referred to as ‘Moonbat’. However I agree it is disappointing about Boris… can’t think what has got into him. Shame.

But as much as I agree with the tone of the article, try not to think all sports fan here would kill each other. Tribalism is awful wherever it is but thankfully sport isn’t the measure of a country, otherwise we’d all want to be China.

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:59 am 6. Gary Ogletree:

I remember Kruschev on his famous tour of the Corn Belt where he marveled at the prosperity and technology of American farmers. After inspecting the shelves of a supermarket he said, “We will never catch up.” That’s Europe. Black people in this country have always been able to point to the ideals in our founding documents and say, “Hey guys, it’s time to live up to these principles!” People in Europe have nothing to point to.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:08 am 7. Eric R.:

Carol,

I have read your work over the last few years, and while I don’t doubt the real hatred and hypocrisy of Europeans, my question is why do you continue to live in that sewer if it’s so horrible?

Why continue to put up will all the garbage from these idiots?

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:18 am 8. tanstaafl:

The Germans elected Angela Merkel, the French chose Nicolas Sarkozy, and the Italians re-elected Berlusconi.

Conservatives all.

It would appear that the socialist chosen in Spain (to “appease” the terrorists among other reasons) is really mucking up the place, economically. While, reportedly, Spain is a major arms supplier to whomever will buy wherever in the world, no questions asked.

Apparently, the European press is hoping to elect the kind of Left leaning candidate in America that many of its own citizens have rejected.

Just for the record, doesn’t London’s Mayor Johnson have some dicey personal stuff we could discuss ? Wasn’t the former London mayor, Ken Livingstone, a complete idiot ? And how ’bout the Archbishop of Canterbury, completely nuts on the Shari’a thing, or wot ? And British tabloid culture ? ohmygod, those Brits positively thrive on gossip.

I mean, British, European, whatever, if you’re gonna get off on Yank bashing, please have a very clean house yourself.

No wonder the Europeans are fixated on the (rather outdated) notion of American “racism”. Their newspapers harp at it rather often. If you read Le Monde or the Times of London, and other European newspapers, slants on Sarah Palin (negative and mocking) and slants on Barack Obama (praise and near adoration) you might think you’re reading the New York Times or the writings of any other completely slanted and biased US editorial board.

My friend in France often tells me things about the horrible state of “racism” in America. I point out (to little avail) that the “facts” he is receiving through French media are a complete distortion of the truth.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:34 am 9. susan:

i confirm what the poster above said.

The left parties in eu think they can gain something if obamba is elected. Truth is that conservative parties in EU are gaining more and more support from the electorate.

And about the newspapers: unlike you, we realized long ago that the press is 80% leaning to the left, so nobody really think they are objective.

USA is by far the first place than any professional has in mind for carreer advance. Hands down, nobody wants to be a successful (fill your preferred job here) in China or Dubai.

USa is still n1 place to “make it”.

Nov 2, 2008 - 4:02 am 10. Emma:

As a European, I agree we have no right to criticise the US on race – we have far too many unresolved skeletons in our cupboards (historical AND current) for that.

Having said that, please don’t elect McCain/Palin; with China’s ascendancy largely unaffected by the financial crisis and Russia going off on nationalist rampages, this is a time when Europe and the US must stand together and more of the GOP’s unilateralism will hurt this effort. Thank you.

Nov 2, 2008 - 4:04 am 11. john from cinncinati:

shut up with this black thing already. i get tired of hearing about the black/white thing in America. America isn’t just black and white. its like having to hear your neighbors argue all the time.

Nov 2, 2008 - 4:45 am 12. susan:

emma, maybe this is not clear enough for you because you watch obamba in awe, but he is the one that wants to sit down with the dictators to negotiate without preconditions.

Europe is leaning to the right, we don’t need a leftist obamba to lecture us about famine in africa and how we can solve the world’s problem just by sitting together and hugging

Nov 2, 2008 - 4:46 am 13. David Thomson:

White racism is virtually a thing of the past. It is black racism which is out of control! Roughly 97% of all black voters are voting for a “man of color.” They are obviously voting primarily because of the color of his skin—and not the content of his character! A significant number of them also believe that vote fraud is fine and dandy. Lastly, how many pastors of large white congregations in America preach racial hatred like Rev. Jeremiah Wright? Can anyone name me even one? Yup, that’s right. I would like the name of even single white pastor comparable to Rev. Wright.

Nov 2, 2008 - 5:43 am 14. Rachel:

Emma’s argument is probably the most calm arguments to vote for Obama, simply because she does not denigrate anyone. However, I have to disagree with her about this concept of unilateralism. The GOP did not go solo; I assume she means Iraq. The Coalition of the winning includes so many nations, it made my head spin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq execpt two. And it’s those two that are not involved that makes a big difference to Europeans.

What Europeans say unilateral they *actually* means is “approval from France and Germany”. Let’s face it, ever since WW II France and Germany have been the most powerful countries in continental Europe. It seems that without their approval, other countries do not count, which is not fair.

My concern is that Obama’s supposed multilateralism is actually avoidance. So, we have to wait until we get the kiss of approval from France and Germany to do anything militarily? The man has never stuck out his neck (ie risked dissaproval and criticism) for anyone, not his constituents (Grove Parc, see Boston Globe) and not even during the Senate (”call me if you need me” when it came to the bailout. Therefore, I do not believe his supposed change the world will work, as it would require risk of criticism.

Nov 2, 2008 - 5:48 am 15. huxley:

Here’s the title of Monbiot’s piece: How these gibbering numbskulls came to dominate Washington

That tells me everything I need to know about Monbiot.

Nov 2, 2008 - 5:53 am 16. Kathy L.:

The media has been so one-sided for Obama, is pathetic. They have, with a few exceptions, been on an all-out campaign to get Obama elected. Many people are influenced by what they see on tv, even if it is tripe. If Obama loves Europe so much, and apparently wants us to be more like Europe, I wish he would go there and stay there, and take his thugs and radical associates with him. I visited the U.K. a few years ago and visited a mansion. The man in the gift shop said the owner had made his fortune long ago from the slave-trade. True it was a horrendous time in U.S. history, and I feel bad about it, but the black people here have made many advances. It is the same for them as for other Americans, if you work hard, you get ahead. This is still the land of opportunity. Apparently, we must still represent something good and desirable, otherwise, so many people wouldn’t want to come here to live. The media has a lot to do with distortions about America. I went on a cruise to Mexico (this was during the time when the trains in Spain got bombed by terrorists), and the only tv station on the ship was CNN. I was appalled to see how they portrayed America, and now I don’t wonder why people who watch it have a bad view of America. Everytime they showed an American soldier, it was in a bad light. They weren’t portrayed as defenders of freedom and as protecting the American way of life. They were shown as brutes. No wonder people have a bad attitude about us. God protect us if Obama gets in. He and his thugs are already cutting back on freedom of speech, and freedom of the press. Next they will go for our guns and religion. My ancestors came here long ago, yearning for freedom and a better way of life. They worked hard and they succeeded. God protect us from Obama and his socialist ideas.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:02 am 17. Inge:

I am a european, and disgusted for quite some time. I live in the US off, and on for many years, and no country on the planet can match what America offers to anyone coming here, including me.
The hatred for everything the US stands for is simply jealousy, and nothing more. However, Europe being so hypocritical has never allowed any black leaders to advance, because there are none.Their disdain for anyone other than ‘white’ is a lot worse than what the US has ever done. The exception in Europe is the the racism towards other colors is done behind the mask Europe so cleverly demonstrates.
I wouldsay to all americans, to hell what these morons have to say, it has no bearings in the US. Hate is a strong word, and what I have witnessed over the last 20+ yrs in Europe (my own country Germany) have caused me to be ashamed at times to be a euopean.
One last note: While I worked in Germany, my deduction from my paycheck averaged 37% to support socialism, and is most likely more now than ever.
I was not a high earner, but rather middle class, my income averaged that of approximately $40,000 per year. Do the math, and I have faith in the american people as to reject socialism coming to the US.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:06 am 18. Johnny Marre:

I have already posted a parody on politics and religion and thanks, you folks who took me seriously. But now let’s talk seriously about GUNS and politics. Where I live we don’t think that the average citizen should be trusted with fire-arms, except properly licensed and controlled single-shot rifles and shotguns for hunting. Of course this leaves the guns in the hands of criminals and the State (police and army). And it’s true that, where seconds count, the police are minutes, if not hours away. But in all debates on the 2nd Amendment, sooner or later someone points out that its main purpose is not to protect life and property against criminals but to guard your liberty against an oppressive and tyrannical government. Tell me, just how is this meant to work in practice? An all-out insurrection against the State would lead to Civil War and on a smaller scale to the siege at Waco. Clearly this defense is only effective at the level of the individual citizen. So if you tell Joe Six-pack that one of the Presidential candidates is Commie muslim terrorist out to destroy the country, doesn’t the 2nd Amendment give him the right, maybe even the duty, to do something about it? It gives political groups the right to assert their ideologies by force if necessary. It is an anachronism, which, coupled with the rhetoric of the past months is a danger to democracy.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:12 am 19. Valerie:

Of course, so many european countries have and have had black presidents/prime ministers, haven’t they?

Oh, they haven’t?

Well, then, they should just shut the h*ll up.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:14 am 20. heh:

Your piece sucks, Carol. I mean, really: using the London mayor to make an indictment of an entire continent?

I hope they pay you by the word.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:15 am 21. Spinoneone:

The Mayor of London does not swear fealty to the British Crown. Thus, he does not take an oath of allegiance to a foreign power. Therefore, he does not divest himself of his American citizenship thereby. He could, of course, renounce his US citizenship. Doubt he will.

Look at the Islamic invasion of Europe now underway and the British and European response thereto. A complete shambles. Coupled with their responsibility from 1650 to 1850 in being the primary slave brokers in both West and East Africa, they really should just put a cork in it.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:35 am 22. Jabba The Tutt:

Look, the Europeans are clueless about the United States. I know this from personal experience going back to 1975. Yes, University students berated me for America’s treatment of Blacks. When I pointed out that the biggest racial rivalry, where I grew up was between Blacks and not Whites, but Hispanics. They didn’t even know Hispanics existed. They thought and still do, that Jim Crow laws are still on the books.

Fundamentally, what this European obsession is about, is the effort the feel superior to the Americans. The upstarts. America has so much power and influence from her military, to her economy, to her culture, Europeans feel the need to knock America. Trying to deal with this rationally will never get you anywhere.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:36 am 23. vb:

Emma, you obviously don’t understand the Europe’s idea of multilateralism is dictating when the US can take action and then criticizing when things prove difficult. It is using the US as a scapegoat while assuring its tyranical business partners that Europeans are truly enlightened. Aside from a relative few who understand the dimensions of Islamic terrorism and the difficulties in balancing security with our personal freedom, most Europeans exist in a Eutopian dream world in which the US is supposed to guarantee that the dream never ends. I would love to see the US and Europe stand together; unfortunately Europe tends to crouch behind us and criticize our hemline because that’s all they see.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:38 am 24. SGT Ted:

I have never seen racism in the US like I have seen in Europe. It’s really that simple.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:44 am 25. misanthropicus:

European anti-Americanism – the Impotent Helots’ Jealousy.

When insulted by an European, a very effective way of deflecting this is by remembering those heart-breaking photographs taken in France after the “Liberation”, photos of furious crowds beating, spitting at, and humiliating in any manner possible the women who happened to live/ have children with German military personnel – and remember that those manifestations of righteous indignation were coming from a nation who accepted the German ocupation without objection (the Maquis and the French ressistence stories are mostly inventions).
So, always when you hear and see European anti-American manifestations, remember those photographs as an illustration of the Europeans’ lofty moral qualities – while that situation occurred in France in 1945, it is now highly illustrative for the cowardice, petty revengefulness, selfishness, laziness and general baseness which make for all Europeans helots’ mental landscape.

Always keep in mind when you deal with Europeans that they, despite apparences, are actually just some provincial helots, be they Sweedish or Greek, Portuguese or Austrian, English or Italian – there are not exceptions amongst those nations. Intellectuals or proletarians, the Europeans are obsessed and angered by their sterility, cowardice, conventionalism, lack of prospects and impotence, anger amplified by the bitter awareness that their well-being is completely related to the Master’s/America’s actions – and all the European, anti-American manifestations spring from this, impotent helot’s jealousy.
As far as the Europeans competence in American situations, that is a tragic-comic matter – you seldom find one who knows better than Karl May in 1870’s (to be merciful).
And take this advice from an ex-Euro, I know that stock – I can hear from California the rattles of mental chains in Manchester, Paris, Rome or Berlin.

Nov 2, 2008 - 7:18 am 26. JaimeRoberto:

I just returned from Germany where I had an interesting conversation with a Kurdish (from Syria) taxi driver. He was complaining about German racism and how he was looked down upon by the locals. As I left his cab, he called to me, “I love George Bush. He has done great things for my people.” Anyway, it made me think about how Europeans are in favor of Obama, but I bet very few of them would vote for him to be the leader of their own country.

Nov 2, 2008 - 7:30 am 27. RE:

People forget that we left Europe for something different. If there are Euros with their undies in a bunch over the USA, it is solidly their problem, not mine. I don’t feel any need for European approval. I’d suggest that Ms. Gould get over it. Their bashing matters not.

Nov 2, 2008 - 7:38 am 28. misanthropicus:

The Impottent Helot’s Jealousy – Addition:
First paragraph, bottom: “[...] it is now highly illustrative for the cowardice, petty revengefulness, selfishness, laziness and general baseness which make for all Europeans helots’ mental landscape. [...]”
Add: “Europeans… instinctive duplicity, if not compulsive treachery.”

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:01 am 29. jane:

I guess Europeans are tired of the US fighting their battles for them. I hope they don’t expect an Obama asministration to waste our money and our military on their concerns.

I agree that for too many Europeans multilateralism means that they get to decide when/if the US does something. I wonder if Americans who resent Pres Bush having the authority to deploy our resourses really would want Europe to be in charge of them.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:01 am 30. AlexinCT:

JaimeRoberto you got an important thing right there: many Europeans hope for an Obama win, not because of some noble motive, but precisely because they know he will be bad for America. As others have already pointed out the European elite and too many of their citizens are green with envy and jealous of America. While so many of them will mouth off about how much better Europe is because of socialism than America, they would sell their souls to move here. They hope Obama causes enough damage to the US and abdicates America’s sovereignty to the UN, and thus them, to increase their paltry status.

Europe’s elite made the monumental mistake of falling for that ridiculous notion of “soft power”. For the last 3 or so decades they have been telling everyone that the new world order was the UN and international courts. Unfortunately they have convinced nobody but their own sheep. And the real world constantly reminds them of how idiotic the entire concept of soft power is when there is no real power to back it up. They are pissed they got it wrong yet again.

Their Obama support is based on nothing but their genuine hope for him to wreck America, it is nothing but schadefruede.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:03 am 31. BC:

I’ve been all over Europe and visit friends there regularly. In the cities, there is far more racial and ethnic mixing both at the lower and upper social demographic than in this country, but you do have the usual middle and working class level grousing and blaming “others” when things are not working out. If the crime levels are low, there is not much to complain about even among the more poor — their public housing is better, their transportation system is laughably better, their health care overall is also much better especially for the poor and elderly, and their political leaders generally go to ridiculous lengths to do what the right wing in this country calls “being PC,” which considering the alternatives, is not so bad.

I have to say, though, that there is one ethnic group that is much better off in this country than in Europe in general — the Jews. You spend enough time over there, especially on the mainland, and you do pick up on a level of Antisemitism and being against Israel that’s far beyond than what’s typical even in the redneck sections of this country. That seems pretty loopy, but if you look at how Jews have been treated in Europe over the centuries, it’s almost like it’s been embedded too deeply into the culture over there to be dealt with quickly.

As far as Europeans in general hoping for Obama to win, well…all you clueless bozos who voted for Bush, especially during the last go round, are pretty much to blame for that. Bush’s disastrous term has made the world a worse place, and there is absolutely nothing about McCain to indicate that there will be much if any improvement given the same old, same old low quality of people he’s brought on board already, like Randy Scheunemann and Rick Davis.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:09 am 32. susan:

A quick explanation for Jaime.

The German people (as the rest of sane europe) have all the right to dislike muslims like the one you met in Germany. They brought misery, honor killings, desrespect for local women, desrespect for local religion, desrespect for local institution.

But do not mistake his love for Bush for anything other than temporary opportunism. Muslims allied with Hitler because it suited them.

and more important consideration: THE EUROPEAN PRESS IS LEFTIST!

Imagine yours multiplied by 10.

Look where the votes are going: CONSERVATIVE!

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:17 am 33. Mary Jackson:

why do you continue to live in that sewer if it’s so horrible?

Good question.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:39 am 34. tanstaafl:

Let’s dish “Obamaphile” London mayor, Boris Johnson.

Hell, cut from the same cloth as ole Slick Willie.

Boris Johnson sacked for lying over affair

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:41 am 35. Gudrun Eussner:

I have written several articles (in German) on the Obama-campaign-machine “Le Figaro“. You cann’t imagine what they are telling their readers about the Election 2008, about the wonderful Barack Obama, the very serious Joe Biden, the old John McCain and the stupid Sarah Palin.

They do not at all inform the readers what is happening in your country, ACORN, Rashid Khalidi and alike, not to mention p.e. an article about David Axelrod, nothing, de rien.

Klick on the link, please, and you will find a new smear, Sarah Palin having gotten a fake phonecall from Nicolas Sarkozy.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:43 am 36. susan:

I can fairly say that BC is writing a lot of bullshits.

There are far more racial tensions in every major european city than during the KKK years in USA. There are entire blocks that are “hostages” of immigrants. Police doesn’t even go there. People are fed up and xenophobic movements are growing EVERYWHERE.

He hangs around with people who have fun burning up american flag and israel flag and like minded anarchist and communist.

That’s why he doesn’t have a clue about the subject. His “friends” are probably the equivalent of Ayers in europe. Believe me, we have our share of people like Ayers, and retards like BC. And we are usually deeply ashamed of them.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:51 am 37. Yo Blair (Yo Sarko?):

I liked this article. It was balanced and informative. I agree that Europeans are great at criticizing the US on many issues without really taking care of their own issues at home.

To be fair, though, France is a bit of an exception and Sarkozy appointed Rachida Dati and Rama Yade (two immigrants) to important positions (he himself is the son of an immigrant).

Something also that most readers of Pajama Media won’t know: France was the first country in the West (incl, the US) to elect a Jewish Prime minister in the 1930s, Leon Blum. So, speak about French anti-semitism now…

Last point: misanthropicus made a VERY stupid comment: “the Maquis and the French ressistence [spelling mistake here by misanthropicus] stories are mostly inventions”. Of course, you can always argue that the whole nation should have been part of the resistance blah blah blah. The fact remains that 80,000 resistants died during the war, and bravely. Spitting on heroes is a shame, and misanthropicus should be ashamed.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:59 am 38. Martge:

So if you don’t think obama is qualified to be our president, if you think he is an opportunist, egotist who struts and frets UPON THE STAGE, and don’t want to vote for him, you are a racist.

Guess that’s a new one. Maybe he should be cornated instead of being sworn in. You know, like, given an ermine robe and wand.

Give me a break. We still have freedom of choice. And if republicans want to vote for republicans what the heck is the problem.

When obama’s campaign trashed Hillary did we hear that he was a sexist?

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:03 am 39. Frank:

Would Europeans EVER elect a non-white candidate? I highly, highly doubt it. And yet they have the gall to talk this trash?

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:04 am 40. Frank:

When Boris Johnson beat out Livingstone in the London Mayoral election some time ago, I actually got my hopes up that the socialistic dhimmi status of Londons elected officials may end. Lately, and not just limited to this instance, Boris seems determined to prove me wrong.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:08 am 41. Sarge:

Maybe we should have held onto Europe while we had it in WWII. No, I change my mind. Who wants a socialist decadent society which still thinks that what they think matters. Dont call on me again to solve your problems, I AINT coming!

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:21 am 42. pat:

I can’t think of a single reason as to why I would car who the Brits want for President. As for America being a nation of dolts, one only need to walk the streets of London to realize thank God we are not Brits. Drunken criminals everywhere.Incompetent police. Muslim nut cases.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:25 am 43. logdon:

It’s been pointed out here in the UK media that if Obama loses, riots will break out in America. What isn’t said is that if McCain loses, a similar civil uprising will occur. Is that because it won’t, and if that won’t happen why should it be almost acceptable for blacks to react in such a volatile way? Could it be that blacks as a group are more likely to be the bad losers by using violence? Which then leads to more unpleasant and certainly politically incorrect assumptions. One of which could be that the black community in the US is actually more racist than the whites. Or more likely to use violence as a bargaining tool? Maybe the so called pundits are wrong and none of that will occur, if so who are these people to whip up an artificial storm with the sole purpose of intimidation? They in fact are reinforcing stereotypes and racism yet we hear not a peep from the MSM. We in Britain are in the throes of a big Muslim problem with a growing separation of faiths, creating massive gulfs. Civil disobedience now being practiced by top levels of our police forces. There are no go zones in cities where whites are harrassed. Call for Shariah is an ongoing demand. We pander and pontificate. We appoint the most unsuitable of hard line whabbi influenced groups as arbiters who then bouyed by hubris even screech for a two tier educational system. We in other words are in no position to lecture America on the governance of minorities, having made such a pigs ear of it ourselves.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:28 am 44. Mary Jackson:

Would Europeans EVER elect a non-white candidate? I highly, highly doubt it. And yet they have the gall to talk this trash?

Well, the UK has had a woman PM, and an ethnically Jewish one (Disraeli) though he was a convert. I can’t see why not.

The UK is actually much more relaxed about race and doesn’t make such a big deal of it.

Still, if it’s so bad, why does Carol Gould continue to live here? She would not be missed, were she to return to the Good Ol’ U S of A. Unless slagging off her adopted country is proving a nice little earner.

Interesting too, that an American criticises England for colonialism. Can she not see the irony? (Silly question.)

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:37 am 45. Chip:

David Thomson wrote:
“White racism is virtually a thing of the past. It is black racism which is out of control! Roughly 97% of all black voters are voting for a “man of color.” They are obviously voting primarily because of the color of his skin—and not the content of his character!”

The new militancy that has emerged is a sociological phenomenon that is contrary to the concept of, “content of your character.”

MLK Jr. continued to promote the original words of Lott Carey in using, “content of your character,” to signify a focus on integration.

At this point, it has become a matter of leveraging governmentally invoked advantages for the specific purpose of obtaining special treatment. (Affirmative Action – special grants for new small minority owned businesses – governmental contract advantages for minorities – etc.)

The Black community is now expecting Obama to grant them all kinds of favoritism.
We shall see…

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:44 am 46. GeoFizz:

The racism within Europe that you never hear about is with the gypsies, or Roma as they are called. The treatment of these people in this day and age is atrocious, and makes these Obamaphile Europeans hypocrits. Read about it in the Economist.

Nov 2, 2008 - 10:23 am 47. Sean:

I learned that a Jew must convert to Christianity to have a shot at PM.
Black are sh*t out of luck unless they can bleach themselves white.

European tolerance is vastly overrated. Europeans – the brits especially – are among of the most bigoted people I’ve ever come across.

Nov 2, 2008 - 10:54 am 48. Donna V.:

BC wrote:

“You spend enough time over there, especially on the mainland, and you do pick up on a level of Antisemitism and being against Israel that’s far beyond than what’s typical even in the redneck sections of this country.”

The strongest non-Jewish supporters of Israel in America are evangelical Christians, while apologists for Palestinian terrorists are as numerous in radical enclaves like Berkeley as they are in Europe. Unfortunately, most Jews in this country persist in believing that some one like Palin is a greater threat to them than Mr. “No Preconditions” is.

And if the races mix so much more harmoniously in Europe than they do here, why did torching Renaults and Citroens became such a popular pasttime in France a couple of years ago? Even police won’t venture into certain suburbs of Paris.

Nov 2, 2008 - 10:59 am 49. Snorri Godhi:

There are 45 comments as I write this.
My favorite comment so far: #20. The message is similar to what I wrote in #4, but more hard-hitting.

Runner up is #12. That’s the kind of challenge to herd thinking that we need.

Note to Yo Blair (#37): Britain elected Disraeli long before France elected Leon Blum. But it is true that France was probably Israel’s best friend up to the 6-days war, which cannot be said for Britain.

Nov 2, 2008 - 11:11 am 50. Dee:

So we who critize Obama are racist and idiots? And, does that make what is true about him and Socialists who are taking over our country any less dangerous? Though not. Ignore them. And as wise, old Mom said,”Consider the source.”

Nov 2, 2008 - 11:52 am 51. Yo Blair (Yo Sarko?):

To Mary Jackson (#44) and Snorri Godhi (#49). Point taken about Disraeli being the first “ethnically” Jewish Prime minister of a Western democracy. However, as Mary pointed out, he converted to Anglicanism while Blum remained Jewish until his death. Which, if you ask me, is a huge difference (but nonetheless, Disraeli’s election was a great achievement).

Also, while I agree with the author that Europeans should clean up their mess before lecturing the world, #4, #12, #20, #49 are right to point out that taking the example of London’s mayor and generalize it to the whole of Europe is a serious flaw in the article.

Europe and the US should work together, enough of childish finger-pointing.

Nov 2, 2008 - 12:15 pm 52. Kulak:

Re: Jabba The Tutt: “Look, the Europeans are clueless about the United States”.
I agree with much of what you say buddy… In Germany in the seveties I ran across a great many Germans (my mother is German, and I know the language) who believed that “Black people are NOT ALLOWED to have jobs in the USA”, and other woefully ignorant matters. Still, I have to say in their defense that Europeans in general know more about the USA than most US people know about other countries…. but much of that ‘knowledge’ is parsed through their VERY liberal media. Also in defense of US folks, the USA is the big gorilla in the cage (world), all the cockroaches and rodents hiding under the straw and in the corners of the cage know every move the gorilla makes, and the gorilla pays no attention to vermin or cockroaches unless they might come and hiss at him or might be a food source (note: I am not equating EU with rodents or roaches, merely commenting on size, power and affluence). Yes, sadly I must say that Ami’s need to get out of their home a bit more, and see other countries…. if most Americans took a trip to other countries and saw how even the affluent and ‘well-to-do’ in those places lived no better than most ‘middle class’ folks in the USA, they might come back to this country happy with what they have… with what WE have as a people, a nation.
God bless the USA. I’ve been to three continents, over a dozen countries, lived overseas a total of eight years…. I don’t want to live anywhere but the USA!

Nov 2, 2008 - 12:27 pm 53. 888:

I guess Boris forgot what his forefathers from
Great Britain did in India, Pakistan, Africa (raped, stole, killed, you name it) and how’ve they treated people of color the past few decades right there in their own country. He’s a phony hypocrite just like Obama.

And England’s socialized hospitals and clinics are one of the dirtiest and ill-equipped in the western world, and this from my three aunts who’ve worked there for over 30 years as nurses. The people are taxed to death –that’s why their middle class buy vacation and retirement homes in Florida, south of France, southern Spain, Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, anywhere that’ll allow them to keep more of their money and assets and where they can hide from their tax collectors. England has a huge drug, crime and welfare problem, and that’s why anytime a Brit can trash good ole Uncle Sam, he will. My British husband who recently became a US citizen says their envy of America is legendary and widespread, but once they get a job with a large American company, like Dell or ExxonMobil, boy, you’ll hear all kinds of praises of the US — great technology, lots of opportunities, empowered workforce…etc., etc.

By the way, Boris, for your education: the housing/financial mess was started by JIMMY CARTER’S and BILL CLINTON’S Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) which forced banks to give risky loans to uncreditworthy people. Another culprit: ALAN GREENSPAN who kept decreasing interest rates which made more credit and money available for these risky loans. And, also blame BARNEY FRANK AND CHRIS DODD who refused to allow Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae to be reformed because they said there was nothing wrong with the 2 housing programs — this after Republicans, like McCain, and the Bush Administration repeatedly asked the two banking/housing committe leaders to fix the growing problem. Learn some basic economics and history before mouthing off your stupidity.

Nov 2, 2008 - 12:58 pm 54. Son of a Pig and a Monkey:

The Economist endorsed Obama yesterday. I e-mailed them to cancel my subscription immediately. You should let everybbody know, so they can vote with their wallets -the was capitalism works.

Nov 2, 2008 - 12:59 pm 55. tanstaafl:

The Black community is now expecting Obama to grant them all kinds of favoritism.We shall see…

In all fairness to America’s persons of melanin , some are simply genuinely excited that a mulatto who looks more black than white might ascend to the highest office in the land.

Others, however, will define for y’all the real meaning of “change” and “hope” and, in Barack Obama’s own words, spreading the wealth around.

It ain’t pretty for the future of intelligent life in the universe.

Ya gotta watch this video

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:13 pm 56. 888:

#26, the reason the Kurdish taxi driver loves George Bush is because Bush, Jr. & Sr. saved them with the No-Fly Zone initiative and the protection and liberation of Northern Iraq after over 100,000 Kurds were killed (systematically tortured and gassed) by Saddam Hussein. And they say that Iraq didn’t have weapons of mass destruction? Sorry, naysayers, but chemical and biological warfare are weapons of mass destruction (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/21/hussein.anfal/index.html).

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:14 pm 57. Mary Jackson:

And England’s socialized hospitals and clinics are one of the dirtiest and ill-equipped in the western world, and this from my three aunts who’ve worked there for over 30 years as nurses. The people are taxed to death –that’s why their middle class buy vacation and retirement homes in Florida, south of France, southern Spain, Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, anywhere that’ll allow them to keep more of their money and assets and where they can hide from their tax collectors. England has a huge drug, crime and welfare problem, and that’s why anytime a Brit can trash good ole Uncle Sam, he will.

Well, it’s very strange that so many people – Americans too – come to live here. And, like Carol Gould, stay here.

Masochists, all of them.

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:33 pm 58. misanthropicus:

RE: Yo Blair RE misanthropicus/ The impotent Helots’ Jealousy -

1) “[...] Something also that most readers of Pajama Media won’t know: France was the first country in the West (incl, the US) to elect a Jewish Prime minister in the 1930s, Leon Blum [..]”
Buddy, never heard about Benjamin Disraeli? About 50 years before PM in the island of Britain?

2) “[...] misanthropicus made a VERY stupid comment: “the Maquis and the French ressistence [spelling mistake here by misanthropicus] stories are mostly inventions”. Of course, you can always argue that the whole nation should have been part of the resistance blah blah blah. The fact remains that 80,000 resistants died during the war, and bravely. [...]”
Buddy, France belongs to the club of countries with unpredictable past – their gushing about an active and heroic anti-german resistence in the forties is largely a fifties-sixties, state-organized collective fantasy.
If you want an European nation which indeed acted courageously and suffered enormously in those circumstances, those were the Serbians and the Poles. The French act in 1939-1945 was execrable (like most of other European contries, anyway) and ever since their duplicity and opportunism kept growing.
3) Buddy, the issue we’re are enriching each other on this thread is about the Euros trashing America, and my description of that was “Impotent Helots’ Jealousy…” – any… balanced! view regarding that? You’re an Euro? I am, and I know that stock very well.

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:35 pm 59. tanstaafl:

Sorry, naysayers, but chemical and biological warfare are weapons of mass destruction…

That nasty cretin Chemical Ali worked up a chemical cocktail for Saddam to drop on Kurds in Saddam’s Anfal/Halabja campaign and kill somewhere in excess of 5000 human beings.

Kurds (although technically a slant of “Sunni” in persuasion) seem smarter than the perpetual Shi’ite/Sunni infighting further south. Hell, I’d probably want to make a separate country, too.

Can’t this sh!t stop ? Very small planet and someday, after our delicious Sun goes super nova none of this sh!t will matter a whit.

(ok, so that’s my peace ‘n love message)

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:45 pm 60. BC:

To susan: Your petty, nasty and utterly nonsensical response pretty demonstrates why Europeans (as well as smart, well informed and ethical people in general) are holding their breath and keeping their fingers crossed in the hopes of Obama becoming President — people get the leaders they deserve and what you deserve would be bad news for every one else who wants good things for this country and for the world at large.

And as far as my friends go, believe it or not, some of them actually protect your sorry butt and that of your friends, deserved or not.

Nov 2, 2008 - 1:57 pm 61. Snorri Godhi:

Yo Blair: I am in complete agreement with your comment #51.

Let me add that I suspect that much of European prejudice is the result of the civil rights and anti-Vietnam war movements in the 1960s. Whatever the merits of those movements (and certainly the civil rights movement had merit, but that is irrelevant here), they must have convinced most foreigners that Americans are racist warmongers.

Good news is no news: today, we don’t stop to think that there is much less violence in Iraq; after the 1960s, we never stopped to think that American racism has mostly disappeared, and that the US has not been engaged in a major US war for 30 years after Vietnam.

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:10 pm 62. harmonicminer » A Brilliant Article: Read it all:

[...] Pajamas Media » European Obamaphiles Trash the U.S. I am sick and tired of Britons and Europeans pontificating about “American racism.” It defies belief that nations who plundered vast continents and colonialized the Hottentot are now telling Americans they should shed their shameful past. There is no denying the United States has a legacy of misfortune in the context of the era of slavery and that segregation was a blot on its history, but the impact of African-Americans on every aspect of American culture is something to be celebrated and that has no equal in Europe and Great Britain. Whether one supported Hillary Clinton or Mike Huckabee, or whether one will be voting for John McCain or Barack Obama, the United States has just shown the world it is capable of staging an energetic exercise in democracy that cannot be rivaled anywhere on the planet. Yes, there have been nasty moments aplenty but no blood has been shed. [...]

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:26 pm 63. Ron Watson:

Britain is paying demagoguery. In West London english language is not spoken anymore.
Racismo in America, eh? Why these goddamned demagogue and imbeciles don’t take a look first to where real racism is going; and this is in Africa where tribes kill each other without mercy. STOP the bull. America Racist” how many
African American would change their lives in America for those who live in Africa. And howmany who live in black Africa would be willing to come to the “racist America? Compute and you’ll find the truth. We’re sick and tired of so much racist bullshit. GOD BLESS AMERICA BEACON OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:54 pm 64. susan:

BC, unlike YOU who come in Europe (allegedly) to party with your buddies, I am born and living in EU.

The only black people that we saw (and I am talking about pretty much EVERY COUNTRY from the north of Norway to the south of Italy) are 3rd worlders coming from africa.

Those thirld worlders with the help of the leftist are pretty demanding and most of the time engage in criminality.

So you won’t see any black president in europe anytime soon. But it’s even hard to see a black doctor, a black business man etc. The only 2 likely countries who have this could be France or the UK.

As far as the rest of europe we do not see how we should elect someone a representative of a people that is less than 2% of population.

And you are kidding yourself if you think there are not racial tensions. Racial tensions are the direct fruit of leftist politics that favour the immigrant over the local people. That cause of course resentment.

Somebody that doesn’t understand this simple cause-effect is either stupid or a leftist.

We do have racial tensions, we do not hold it as a badge of honor, but we don’t even loose sleep over it.

European countries have been lands of EMIGRATION, not IMMIGRATION and cannot sustain large immigration. THE SOCIALIST STATE cannot sustain wild and uncontrolled immigration. FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. Maybe you should tell it to your OBAMATRONS.

Summing up

1) you know jack$hit about europe (your discussions with your leftist friends in eu doesn’t constitute “knowledge”)
2) normal people in EU knows that USA is the last bastion of freedom and liberty, therefore one should be extremely moronic (or leftist/marxist) to wish a downfall with obamba as president
3) somebody quoted “the economist”. The economist is typical full blown marxist propaganda, everybody should discharge those opinions, because it’s all magazines that wish doom and gloom to USA.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:01 pm 65. seguin:

“Bush’s disastrous term has made the world a worse place”

You, know, the world…except for sub-saharan Africa, Iraq, Kurdistan, etc.

And susan is from Italy.

And most well-informed people are hoping Obama loses.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:06 pm 66. Donna V.:

BC: I believe Susan is European, French to be exact.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:15 pm 67. Donna V.:

Everyone knows what the stereotypical “Ugly American” is like – the loudmouth who complains about the native food and customs and bustles about abroad like he or she owns the place. But the Ugly American has a polar opposite who is no less obnoxious (at least to other Americans).

I’m talking about the “Groveling Americans,” who I saw in abundance in Europe in the ’70’s and ’80’s. They were the ones who pasted Canadian flags on their backpacks, even though they were from the States, because they were so ashamed of their nationality. (Obviously, real Canadians put maple leaf flags on their gear too – those aren’t the people I’m talking about.) The Groveling Americans were so desperate to be liked by their betters that they began preemptive Nixon and Reagan bashing before Europeans had a chance to start in. I remember a red-head from San Francisco apologizing to Iranians in Amsterdam for the Shah. She told them America was evil and imperialistic. This was during the hostage crisis. I got up and left the table – and I was a Democrat in those days!

What was rich was that sometimes they’d misjudge the audience. I remember a young man who insulted Reagan in a pub in London. His comments were met in silence until he started Thatcher bashing too. The people in the pub may or may not have been Tories, but they weren’t about to listen to a Yank slag off their prime minister.

Needless to say, Yanks who whimper and moan about big bad Amerikkkka are going to be welcomed in many quarters (hence the popularity of Michael Moore over there). If an American assures you America is the worst, most racist country on the planet, any lingering guilt you might feel about Auschwitz and Vichy is relieved. However, I’m sure some Europeans hold these self-abasing Yanks in contempt, even if they don’t say it aloud.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:40 pm 68. Yo Blair (Yo Sarko?):

to misanthropicus #58

1) As I said in #51, point taken about Disraeli. Difference, though, is that Blum did not become a Christian and remained true to his Jewish faith until he died.

2) The Poles and the Serbians were indeed very courageous during the war, more than the French overall. However, keep in mind that unlike the French they were facing extermination based on Germany’s racial policy. So they were literally fighting for their life. But again, 80,000 French died in the Resistance. 80,000 people do NOT constitute a “collective fantasy.”

3) I understand your point about the Europeans trashing the US. This is not acceptable. However, to be fair, this forum is also about Americans trashing Europe. Who started this childish game? I don’t care.

Now my point is the following: while Europe and the US are playing their little finger-pointing game, other civilizations are taking over. It’s time to grow up. I think Sarkozy got the point: there’s no future for us if we don’t work together and put aside our childishness

And yes, I know Europe well, and the US too, and know that most people would agree with my statement about working together.

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:48 pm 69. susan:

One last thing:

In Europe (i see it in my newspapers but also the british newspapers) we are always reminded that “we cannot understand american politics because our right/left concepts are different”.

I used to believe this, til this election.

The LEFTIST politics are the same WORLDWIDE. When Marx thought communism, he made it suitable for any country in the world, regardless of latitude

What are the points of this campaign???

1) big government/small government
obama thinks as a EU leftist, MCcain as a EU conservative
2) high taxes/low taxes
obama thinks as a EU leftist, MCcain as a EU conservative
3) importance of the army
obama thinks as a EU leftist, MCcain as a EU conservative
4) importance of religion not as a political force but as a dialog partner to take into consideration (for example on abortion, sweet death etc)
obama thinks as a EU leftist, MCcain as a EU conservative
5) war on terrorism/islamism
obama thinks as a EU leftist, MCcain as a EU conservative
6) enviroment
obama thinks as a EU leftist, MCcain as a EU conservative
7) SPREAD THE WEALTH
Do I really need to say it?

In Italy we had elections JUNE 2008, the local left was saying exactly the same stuff obamba is saying now!!! I am having a total DEJAVU.

In Italy it ended with the commies going home badly hurt and the other party (coalition of fiscal liberist and center-right) took 55% or more.

NOWADAYS the parties in charge are favoured by 70% of population.

Nobody is believing anymore the DO GOODERS of the left, they were all about protecting the poors they created themselves (to keep their jobs as protectors of victims), over-protect the immigrants, justify all the people unwilling to work and all that.

Our local left LOST badly exactly because they wanted to TAX people and small companies!

The few countries in EU with still the left in charge (UK and Spain) are already pissed and want to get rid of them ASAP.

Gordon Brown is LOATHED (go to read it everyday in the comments section of any UK newspaper), ZAPATERO is over, therefore they foolishly think that obamba’s election can boost their own appeal.

This is the true and SAD story of the left parties worldwide. They all have friends that somewhere in the past have put bombs here and there, they all refuse to sing the national anthem, they despise things like the flag.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME WORLDWIDE!

people are slowly waking up to their dirty tricks (propaganda, indoctrination, media possession)

And if you look at all those leftist politicians preaching to SPREAD THE WEALTH, they all live in mansions, send kids to PRIVATE SCHOOLS, have luxurious holidays, their wives have HIGHLY PAID JOBS especially created for them, EXACTLY LIKE OBAMBA!!!

I repeat: EXACTLY like obamba

Nov 2, 2008 - 3:55 pm 70. Coach Barstuck:

If White Alaskans are racist, why didnt they riot in the streets of LA when their highest profile white woman was Hung by the neck in the city known for getting OJ off through riots. Or Border issues back burner-ed by clogging streets. Lincoln the Republican has been Hijacked.

Nov 2, 2008 - 4:59 pm 71. ize2dsky:

The hypocrisy of some Europeans on the matter of racism knows no bounds. If Euros are so enlightened, then surely someone can start naming all the Asian, Black, and Hispanic (outside of Spain & Portugal) persons who’ve been elected to public office in the EU. I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer. The truth is that your countries are being steadily overrun by immigrants from Africa, Asia, and the Muslim world. And since their birthrates far exceed those of White Euros, it won’t be long til your first world societies have crumbled, your culture will be lost, and for all your supposed enlightment, you’ll find yourself living in a third world toilet.
And you won’t be rescued by the beacon of western democracy that is the US—-because their president may very well be a Muslim-sympathizing socialist. The same kind of person that you seem to be so in love with. Good Luck, Buena Suerte, Bon Chance, and Gesundheit!

Nov 2, 2008 - 5:28 pm 72. A. Taylor:

Absolutely agree with everything you say. As for Boris Johnson, you must not forget that while he has not long held the post of Mayor of London (it has clearly gone to his head) and he evidently sees this as his stepping stone to the Prime Ministership.

This is Boris at his best: he sees his future in sucking up to whoever he thinks might hold that powerful mantle, the U.S. Presidency.

He is no fool, but, he has the unfortunate habit of behaving foolishly.

Nov 2, 2008 - 5:55 pm 73. A Marylander:

Europe is upset because they are a bunch of socialists and hope to get us messed up in the same thing. Your Euro is in the tank even though the US economy has had issues.

Bottom line- Obama is a Europeanist and you love him for it. You know that he is going to mess the US up so you can get your jollies off.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:10 pm 74. AdrianS:

French President Nicolas Sarkozy is very critical of U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama’s positions on Iran, according to reports that have reached Israel’s government.

Sarkozy has made his criticisms only in closed forums in France. But according to a senior Israeli government source, the reports reaching Israel indicate that Sarkozy views the Democratic candidate’s stance on Iran as “utterly immature” and comprised of “formulations empty of all content.”

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031943.html

2008. The year The One (Barack Obama) … Lost.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:22 pm 75. Mary Jackson:

Bottom line- Obama is a Europeanist and you love him for it. You know that he is going to mess the US up so you can get your jollies off.

I can’t speak for the rest of “us”, those “Europeans” that you happily lump together as one. But I don’t “love” Obama, or support him in any way.

Not that that matters, because, as some posters have rather ungraciously but truthfully pointed out – we “Europeans” don’t have a vote. No matter how much we love Obama or hate him, we can’t vote him in.

That honour falls to the American people. If Obama wins it will be through the votes of the American people. If that happens, then all the critical comments levelled here against “Europeans” will come right back at you.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:46 pm 76. Jason Sieckmann:

Wow, you almost had me, until you started becoming reactionary and basing your claims on the fact that certain American leaders were black, and that is a good thing.

First, Europe simply has LESS black people, period. That means less chances for one of them to become an elected leader.

Second, There is just no way that Europe, the place white people come from, is ever going to have a very large black population, because the only large African populations in the world are in the United States, and Africa. Other countries don’t even come CLOSE to the percentages being displayed there. Why? The same reason an American in the midwest can’t just pack their junk and move to Britain; immigration restrictions. It’s not about race.

Third, Condaleeza Rice, Jesse Jackson, and all of the people you mentioned are some of the biggest scum bags in modern politics. If they aren’t sell outs to corporate and special interest agendas, they are outright Socialists, that really DO believe in ’spreading the wealth’ -well, everyone elses’ wealth but theirs.

It’s good to have inflammatory articles. When you say things that aren’t philosophically consistent with your thesis, then you run into new areas of trouble. In this case, it was referring to Barrack’s blackness as a good thing, and then pairing him with those useless cons that also happen to be black.

Nov 2, 2008 - 6:47 pm 77. ize2dsky:

Slightly OT from the Euro thing, but I think it merits a mention: Charles Ogletree, a Harvard law professor who’s reportedly being considered by Obama for the post of Attorney General, was recently quoted in the NY Observer as stating that White America is racist regardless of whether or not they vote for Barry O.
If you want a small glimpse of where we’re headed with The Anointed One, this could be it. The prospective US AG having the mindset that all Whites are racists bent on keeping the Brotha down—even if they vote for a Brotha—and then sending forth his army of Deputy AGs to enforce the agenda.
Only two more days for America to wake up.

Nov 2, 2008 - 7:31 pm 78. Donna V.:

Mary Jackson: I don’t lump all British people in together. When I was in the UK (which admittedly was a while ago), I met some anti-American snots, but I also met a lot of pleasant, decent people.

But I am concerned about what seems to be the gradual Islamization of Britain and the chokehold political correctness seems to have on your chattering classes (and yes, the chattering classes are no different here.) I remember London as being so safe I felt no fear strolling around in the parks after dark with my girlfriends. Could anyone in their right mind do that now? Every story I read about London nowadays paints a pretty dysfunctional picture – the cops are ineffectual, Britons can not defend themselves with a firearm and they’ll go to jail if they try. Well, actually, it sounds like Chicago to me, a place I am much more familiar with. Trust me, you don’t want to be like Chicago

I don’t feel gleeful when I read stories like that. It makes me feel sad – as though the city and country I loved in my youth is as gone as the London of the Victorian era. I was depressed when I was told they turned all those grungy pubs with tons of character into yuppie fern bar type places. Does anyone still play darts and eat Scotch eggs in those pubs?

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:16 pm 79. Ephraim:

Wait a minute.

Since when is Condaleeza Rice “brilliant”? Regardless of her IQ, as Secretary of State she has been an absolute disaster.

Nov 2, 2008 - 8:27 pm 80. skink:

greetings from Australia, which for the sake of this argument, we will consider to be part of Europe

(let’s face it, a significant percentage of Americans can’t find Iraq on a map, so they aren’t going to notice)

recent polls suggest that 78% of Australians would prefer it if Obama were elected President.

Not that I want to tell you your business, but I write it here knowing how much it will irritate all you fulminating rednecks.

Just so you can trash us for being socialists: Australia has universal healthcare, universal state education, one of the highest standards of living on the planet, low crime rate, and bloody marvellous weather.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:16 pm 81. Mary Jackson:

Could anyone in their right mind do that now?

Yes.

Does anyone still play darts and eat Scotch eggs in those pubs?

Yes.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:47 pm 82. Mary Jackson:

Britons can not defend themselves with a firearm and they’ll go to jail if they try.

Gun ownership is severely restricted, and a good thing too. But it is a myth widely believed by just about every American I’ve seen posting on websites that there is no right to self-defence in the UK.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:49 pm 83. CFM:

Heh. You tell ‘em Susan. Bang on.

Nov 2, 2008 - 9:51 pm 84. CFM:

OK, I will too.

Misanthropicus, You are out of line. The French Resistance may not have been as large as you prefer. But a great many brave Frenchmen fought to the death against the Nazis, and assisted the Allies greatly. They deserve respect.

For all those who bash Europeans in general: Careful who you criticize. Europeans live in our future. The Socialist PC crowd is in charge of education, the media, the bureaucracy, and the organs of popular culture. Sound familiar? We are on the same path.

Pay attention to Susan. She is far more representative of the people than you give them credit for.

Nov 2, 2008 - 10:11 pm 85. Kilofox:

World Series? Are you kidding? What tiny little planet do you come from? Oh, hang on, I can guess.

Nov 2, 2008 - 10:27 pm 86. skink:

you wouldn’t want a real World Series, the Cubans might kick your ass.

Nov 2, 2008 - 11:32 pm 87. jonesy55:

Reading this website and other similar conservative sites is enough proof that ignorance is a two-way stream across the atlantic. The seemingly endless parade of articles and comments here that show nothing but disdain and contempt for Europe, its people, its priorities, its culture, its politics etc etc are unmatched by anything this side of the pond.

While a left-leaning newspaper like the Guardian might publish polemic by somebody such as George Monbiot, this only forms a small part of its news coverage. This site seems to publish and least one daily Euro-bashing article each of which is followed up by dozens or indeed hundreds of often ill-informed comments from the knee-jerk anti-european readership.

The author of the article really has a cheek though to criticise Europe’s colonial history, at least Europeans gave up their colonial empires several decades ago and generally there were still enough native inhabitants left to take over when they left. The USA on the other hand (as well as Russia) still clings on to the vast tracts of land that were conquered by force during the 18th and 19th centuries and shows no sogn of returning them to the original owners. Indeed, the original owners are now so hopelessly outnumbered by imperialist settlers and their culture so marginalised that it seems unlikely they will ever be free again.

Add to this the overseas imperial colonisations of the US in the Philipines, Panama and The Pacific and the de facto ‘colonisations by stealth’ implemented by many US puppet regimes all over the world over the past century and the USA is in no position to lecture European nations.

Nov 2, 2008 - 11:51 pm 88. Dave Surls:

“People in Europe have nothing to point to.”

Sure they do. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and mountains of corpses.

Nov 3, 2008 - 12:07 am 89. jonesy55:

“And England’s socialized hospitals and clinics are one of the dirtiest and ill-equipped in the western world, and this from my three aunts who’ve worked there for over 30 years as nurses. ”

and yet British still live longer than Americans, more American babies die in infancy and Americans are far more likely to die before their 60th birthday than people in the UK. The UK’s hospitals are probably not the best in the worldbut when you consider that the US spends 2.5 times as much per head on healthcare that isn’t surprising, cut the budget of the US system by 60% and see where it gets you.

What is surprsing is that despite all this money going in, such poor health comes out.

“The people are taxed to death –that’s why their middle class buy vacation and retirement homes in Florida, south of France, southern Spain, Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, anywhere that’ll allow them to keep more of their money and assets and where they can hide from their tax collectors.”

No, I think you’ll find that’s for the weather.

“England has a huge drug, crime and welfare problem, and that’s why anytime a Brit can trash good ole Uncle Sam, he will. My British husband who recently became a US citizen says their envy of America is legendary and widespread, but once they get a job with a large American company, like Dell or ExxonMobil, boy, you’ll hear all kinds of praises of the US — great technology, lots of opportunities, empowered workforce…etc., etc.”

Your British husband sounds like the typical whining ex-pat, it’s a common trend that people who move to a different country love to moan and whine about the place they came from, it seems to be a form of self-justification tactic. If they can convince themselves that country x is such a c**phole, it makes them feel smug and secure in country y. It probably says more about the individual than about the country they came from.

Nov 3, 2008 - 12:34 am 90. Susan:

The one thing that I actually agree with Obama about is that only in the US could he be where he is.Certainly not in xenophobic Europe where the chattering classes have even managed to keep anti-Semitism alive without any Jews

Nov 3, 2008 - 8:02 am 91. misanthropicus:

Re #68/ Yo Blair (Yo Sarko?) Re misanthropicus #58:

“[...] 2) The Poles and the Serbians were indeed very courageous during the war, more than the French overall. However, keep in mind that unlike the French they were facing extermination based on Germany’s racial policy. So they were literally fighting for their life. But again, 80,000 French died in the Resistance. 80,000 people do NOT constitute a “collective fantasy.” [...]”

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, and here is how I’ll try to close the matter:

“Collective fantasy” – yes, collective fantasy, or rather post facto national fantasising about erections which never happened – it’s not flattering, yet, hey! it’s mighty common (see a before mention of the club of nation with unpredictable past).

There is not much substance in the number of 80.000 you provide – and here I’ll counter not with stats but with oft quoted descriptions of general complacence of the French population during the years of German occupation:
1) You can find a witty and discouraging description of those years in “Mon Journal Pendant l’Occupation” by Jean Galtier-Baissiere, an editor at that time of the “Le Canard Enchaine” and founder of the “Le Crapouillot” (both closed by Germans in 1944) – and this descouraging description coming from a very intense (and noisy) Frenchman (the book is worth reading, it’s funny, and also amusing to observe the awe, hope and embarrassment generated by America’s shadow advancing over the terrified Old World – need more roots of anti-Americanism in Europe?)
2) Personal remembrances – an uncle of mine (died a few years ago) lived/worked in Vichy as minor diplomatic figure from a small European country at that time, and I remember his stories about the passivity of the entire French population during the occupation
3) “Collective, state-supported fantasy”: I lived my sixties-seventies in Europe and I remember the flood of bad French movies, comedies or serious, attempting to generate a mythology of an heroic forties from quite unplausible and unverifiable facts.

Balanced conclusion: The French in their response to the German occupation showed just morose hostility – on the other hand, Afghans are well known for their rebeliosness, soldierly qualities and (some call it heroic) fatalism. I find nothing to admire in the Afghans conduct, be it generated by wiring or culture, since the traits I mentioned are unfailingly complemented by unshakeable and self-destructive duplicity and chronic lack of constructive vision. Whether the Americans would act during an occupation like the French, the Serbians or the Afghans, it’s still TBE.
I have no problem with the French – but I do have a problem with their denying that they bought for themselves a prime seat in the club of the nations with unpredictible past.
Best regards -

Nov 3, 2008 - 8:09 am 92. Dave Surls:

‘My complaint, however, is a specific one: I am sick and tired of Britons and Europeans pontificating about “American racism.”’

Seeing as how Europeans created the slave system in the Americas, and profitted off it for centuries, I’m not overly impressed by their pontificating.

The Euros created black slavery in America, and the American nations got rid of it, and have been dealing with the social fallout caused by the Euro slave system ever since. IOW, it’s their mess, and we’re the ones who have been trying to clean it up for generations, with a fair amount of success, with no help from the guys who created the problem in the firsat place.

The Euros were fine with black slavery until they started losing all their colonies in the Americas, and slavery stopped being profitable, at which point they all of a sudden started getting interested in abolition. The hypocrites. Anytime a Brit, Frog, Spaniard starts talking about American racism, I just laugh at them.

Nov 3, 2008 - 8:44 am 93. tanstaafl:

Thank you, Susan for your intelligent and candid commentary.

Including, but not limited to …

Nobody is believing anymore the DO GOODERS of the left, they were all about protecting the poors they created themselves (to keep their jobs as protectors of victims), over-protect the immigrants, justify all the people unwilling to work and all that.

This is the true and SAD story of the left parties worldwide. They all have friends that somewhere in the past have put bombs here and there, they all refuse to sing the national anthem, they despise things like the flag.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME WORLDWIDE!

people are slowly waking up to their dirty tricks (propaganda, indoctrination, media possession)

George Soros has been a huge sub rosa financier of the Obama campaign, with shell organizations & groups managing to contribute mightily in the arcane world of “private” campaign financing. Barack Obama originally said he would take only public financing, but switched on that pledge as he has switched on so many things, depending on what he considered expedient at the time or what the audience in front of him wanted to hear.

Our election (in these so called “hard economic times, $150 million last month alone in contributions to the Obama campaign) is being bought in service to the Leftist agenda.

And so many of the people who believe his promises or believe that our government is even about “spreading the wealth around”/delivering free “stuff” to them (it isn’t a President’s job, as defined by the Constitutuion) don’t understand that they are simply pawns & foot soldiers in an army of Useful Idiots.

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:04 am 94. Mary Jackson:

The Euros created black slavery in America, and the American nations got rid of it</i?

Eventually. After a long struggle and a great deal of profit.

How long was it before segregation ended?

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:14 am 95. jonesy55:

Susan, I think you are confusing anti-semitism with opposition to israeli excesses and maybe even (shock horror), sympathy for the Palestinians, who after all lost their homes and homeland and have spent the past 50 years in poverty stricken camps through no fault of their own while seeing increasing encroachment into what remaining territory they have left. Is it really so wrong to sympathise with this plight? I think that any other nation that found itself in the same situation might resort to unpleasant tactics.

Just as some on the left are happy to throw around the ‘racist’ label too easily, many on the right will happily label as ‘anti-semitic’ anybody who dares to disagree with any element of Israeli policy.

But the US jewish vote will still go Democrat so I guess they can see through that BS.

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:22 am 96. Ex-fetus:

“I believe that if you serve in a foreign government you have renounced your American citizenship…. ”

Actually, it depends;

http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_779.html

{snipped}
“Pursuant to 349(a)(4), accepting, serving in, or performing duties in a foreign government is a potentially expatriating act if the person is a national of that country or takes an oath of allegiance in connection with the position. Thus, the threshold question is whether the person’s actions fall within the scope of this provision.”

Since it is the State Department that decides, I suspect a few shillings in the correct pocket would make any problems go away.

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:24 am 97. tanstaafl:

Look, race baiters in America (see esp. Jesse Jackson) have made handsome livings telling the black man in America he is perpetually oppressed. Individuals caught up in Black Liberation Theology (see especially the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, aka Mr. Goddamn America) who, literally, preaches that the Black Man is permanently and irrevocably higher than the White Man (”reverse” racism)…all these kinds of people have made profitable livings in America propagating their various race based agendas.

As has Black Muslim and anti-Semite extraordinaire, Louis Farrakhan.

These individuals, as human beings, are repellant.

It’s time for all the race stuff in America to simply stop.

Fortunately, there are blackpersons about (see, e.g., Bill Cosby) who say enough already and who are brave enough to tell the “black community” exactly and precisely who is most often responsible for situations of ongoing poverty and family dysfunction. Themselves.

Barack Obama (while claiming to be “postracial”) has brought all this race stuff to the fore as no other individual in recent memory. In a highly emotional speech, he even threw the grandmother who raised him in his teenage years in Hawaii under the bus in telling an incident of her encounter with a black man. Barack identified this grandmother (now, likely, in her final years, if not days in Hawaii) as a typical white person.

Our politically correct university professors keep the “race/gender etc.” crap alive every day from their pulpits.

Leftism (which is, ultimately about control and removal of freedom) must absolutely rely on keeping differences and frictions alive and well.

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:45 am 98. Dave Surls:

“Eventually. After a long struggle and a great deal of profit. How long was it before segregation ended?”

Big surprise that it’s taken decades to repair the damage you self-righteous Euros caused. By the time we kicked you out of the Americas, slavery and racism had existed for generations and were deeply entrenched in your American colonies.

You Euros are 100% responsible for the system of African chattel slavery in the Americas, and also for its side effects like segregation and racism. You made the mess, and we’ve been dealing with it ever since we kicked you vile colonialists out of the western hemisphere. In the case of the United States, we sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives in a bloody civil war to put an end to the slave system you Europeans introduced to the Americas.

It wasn’t American nations like the United States or Brazil who introduced African slavery, segregation and racism to the Americas, it was European nations like Portugal and the United Kingdom who did so, and those nations profited from it for centuries, and had no real interest in abolishing slavery until they lost their main slave-owning colonies.

No citizen of the European nations who created black African slavery, slavery and segregation is in any position to preach to the United States or any other American nation on these issues.

Nov 3, 2008 - 10:51 am 99. Patricia:

Slavery has occurred in every race on the planet earth. Slavery was practiced by American Indiams long before the White man (spaniards) even landed. African tribes practiced slavery and sold their own tribsmen into slavery. Europeans should be preaching to themselves instead of condemning the United States. Europeans have a sad history of anit-semetism which without the help of the United States in WWII would have annihialed a whole religion! Europeans should look into their own hearts for darkness before judging others.

Nov 3, 2008 - 11:39 am 100. view from afar:

susan, the left is the left is the left anywhere, as far as I can tell they all spit the same rhetoric…however as an American indepedent republican, I can say that the right is Not exactly the same. McCain is very much like the right in Europe. Most conservatives in the US are much less tolerant of government intervention in their lives…but you are right…
minanthropicus, you are right in that the French weren’t very active, however the problem in France is that a lot of the French population wanted the Germans to be there. So the act of being resistant was very difficult. I live in the SW of France which really wasn’t occupied like the North of France was, and the numbers of maquis that were killed here is amazing, and all of them were turned over to the Germans by their neighbors, who felt the Germans were doing the world a favor, but most people didn’t talk about their beliefs, so who knew what. Plus the French have been a cross-roads for Europe and have tolerated all kinds of forays by other European nations (they aren’t innocnet either) so thye tend to just put up with whatever antics the new ruler brought with them sad but true… most French people do not believe there are any ideals worth dying over.
Skink, um you’re sporting the attitude we’re discussing here, and when Australia’s population becomes more important the socialism you’re singing praises of will not be worth as much as all the goodies will cost more, and there will be less goodies available

Nov 3, 2008 - 12:18 pm 101. Mary Jackson:

“You colonialists” is a bit bizarre coming from the very descendants of the people who did the colonizing. And your ancestors didn’t have to keep up slavery for so long – it suitied you. And what on earth has the UK to do with segregation in the fifties?

Take responsibility.

Nov 3, 2008 - 12:28 pm 102. Granny3:

Patricia: Right about slavery comment – every race has had slaves at one time or another. It’s that old heart of evil we are born with.
Re: Britain and slavery – as we had our abolitionists here in American, England had its Christian lawmakers who worked and sacrificed their lives to defeat the slave trade. They won.
I am amazed that no one mentioned that western civilization is a force against the slavery that still exists in many third world countries. I am proud that slavery and Jim Crowe have been defeated here, and that I have many black and brown brothers and sisters helping to make American greater.
What American doesn’t need is Daddy Government to regulate every waking moment of the day and who punishes you if you don’t “think” the way the enlightened elitists on the east coast (and in universities and news media) think. I fear that freedom of speech and freedom of association, etc., will soon be at great risk in American.
After all, our new President has already indicated that he will be building a civilian army. If that doesn’t frighten you at all, you’ve already lost our vision of libery.

Nov 3, 2008 - 12:38 pm 103. Lilith:

Jonesy55 – a minute of your time, s’il vous plait — how much sympathy do you have for the Jews who were expelled from every Arab country after what was left of the British Mandate of Palestine (minus TransJordan)was divided equally between Arabs and Jews? Memory refresher : about 850,000 Jews were expelled from Arabia – from homes and land many had occupied for over 3,000 years. None of these people will ever see their homelands again. These Jews of Arabia had all their lands and all of their wealth confiscated. Sooooo convenient for the local rulers, n’est ce pas? So do you feel sad for them, Jonesy — hmmmm? Come-on—don’t you think they need a little (shock horror) sympathy, too??? Ah, come on — just one teeny, tiny, weeny little tear????????? No? Boo hoo.
So let’s re-cap.
Number of Jewish refugees from Arabia – around 850,000
Number of Arabs who left Israel of their own volition after 1948 to become the only permanent refugees in the history of the world – around 440,000 originally.
Number of Arab refugees absorbed into Arab countries: 0
Number of Arabian Jewish refugees absorbed into Israel : 100%
Number of Arabs currently residing in Israel – around 1,413,300 people or 19.7% of the current population.
Number of Jews currently residing in Arab countries – let’s see, I know there is one old man still in Afghanistan….

Nov 3, 2008 - 12:41 pm 104. Ex-fetus:

“An all-out insurrection against the State would lead to Civil War and on a smaller scale to the siege at Waco.”

Johnnie, if had a military background, you would know how wrong that was.
Plus, there are all kinds of civil wars. The one an Obama victory will start here in America won’t be lines of guys standing up and shooting at each other, but the bomb in the car, knife in the back, shot in the dark sort of civil war.
Plus the problem with the Wacco thingie is that in this case 60% of the cops and 75% of the military will be fighting AGAINST Obama the Usurper. Wacco would have been different if the cops had started shooting at each other.
Remember Ohhhhh……BAMA! never produced a Birth Certificate. That means he is NOT ELIGIBLE to be POTUS. So anybody that obeys his orders is guilty of treason and a war criminal.
In America, the oath is given to the Constitution, NOT the President. So anybody that doesn’t raise up against Obama the Ursurper is not just a traitor but foresworn.
EVERY American will have to look into their heart and decide where their loyalty lies. Then we will take up arms and fight it out.
It will be very messy, but the Democrats made that choice when they choose to run an ineligible candidate and stuff the ballot boxes with fraudulent votes. Once they did that, they left the right with no choice except war.

“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.”
- General William T. Sherman

The right won’t riot or even protest. We will quietly organize and then about the 4th of July all hell will break loose. Poor Obama, which Secret Service agent is loyal to him and which to the Constitution? Which General, Which Pilot of Air Force One.
2 men in an old beater kept DC tied up for a couple of weeks by just driving around shooting people at random. Multiply that by 10, or 100 and see what the future holds. Only this time around the targets WON’T be random and the cops will be doing the shooting, not the looking.
How Many Timothy McVeighs are out there ready to go?

No, there won’t be much in the way of armies in this civil war. There is the problem of who you give the Keys to. That General says he never cared about the Constitution, that he is an Obama the Usurper man to the core, but can you really trust him with all that firepower?
Since by ignoring the constitutional requirements to be POTUS, Obama has undercut the Constitution, which means there is no more rule of law in America. So do you really want a man having that much fire power when 75% of the soldiers controlling that firepower want you dead? I think not. The ‘Constitutionalists’ will not have the logistics to keep that firepower running, so it will be pretty much a low key civil war. Unless, of course, the US Navy decides to take a hand. Naval firepower doesn’t do subtle very well.
Ditto for the Air Force. If they want to play, there won’t be much left of the stadium after the 1st quarter. Nothing left worth fighting over by half time.
Ohhhhh……BAAMA! is a Constitutional scholar, so he is very well aware of the affect him not being able to prove he is a ‘natural born’ citizen will have. So either he is stupid enough to think that nobody will call him on it and he can stonewall his way into the White House, or he WANTS a civil war.

Nov 3, 2008 - 2:48 pm 105. Dave Surls:

“And what on earth has the UK to do with segregation in the fifties?”

South Africa was part of the Commonwealth until 1961. Did you self-righteous Brits do anything to put a stop to legalized segregation in South Africa at any time prior to 1961?

No?

Didn’t think so.

You aren’t in a position to lecture ANYONE on the issues of slavery, racism, or segregation.

Now, STFU.

Nov 3, 2008 - 5:06 pm 106. Mary Jackson:

South Africa was part of the Commonwealth until 1961. Did you self-righteous Brits do anything to put a stop to legalized segregation in South Africa at any time prior to 1961?

Part of the Commonwealth is hardly the same as in your own country, which is what you had.

Being a civilised Brit, I won’t return your insult in kind, but merely ask you to put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Nov 3, 2008 - 5:12 pm 107. Dave Surls:

Civilized Brits in action:

“The Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, alternatively known as the Amritsar Massacre, was named after the Jallianwala Bagh (Garden) in the northern Indian city of Amritsar where, on April 13, 1919, British Indian Army soldiers under the command of Brigadier-General Reginald Dyer opened fire on an unarmed gathering of men, women and children. The firing lasted about 10 minutes and 1650 rounds were fired, or 33 rounds per soldier. Official British Raj sources placed the fatalities at 379. According to private sources there were over 1000 deaths, with more than 2000 wounded, and Civil Surgeon Dr. Smith indicated that there were 1,526 casualties.”–wiki

Yes, you Brits are oh-so-civilized.

For some strange reason people in India got a little weary of being ruled by the British, and at the same being denied the rights of Englishmen. When they gathered to protest the arrest of their leaders who were thoroughly sick of being treated as second class citizens, and were demanding independence from racist and segregationist British rule, you shot the protestors down like dogs.

Very civilized indeed.

You’re in no position to criticize the United States or any other country. You were slavers, you were racists and you were segregationists, and in the case of the United States, all those things were the creation of the British Empire.

Now, do be quiet.

Nov 3, 2008 - 7:05 pm 108. Mary Jackson:

You were slavers, you were racists and you were segregationists, and in the case of the United States, all those things were the creation of the British Empire.

And if we hadn’t been – or more accurately you hadn’t been – there would have been no America, and you would be one of us.

Now you be quiet – or, better still, be logical.

Nov 3, 2008 - 8:13 pm 109. Chicago Former Expat In Belgium:

The dear Lord Mayor may wish to review French President Nicholas Sarkozy’s very negative review of Barack Obama’s proposed Iran policy, which appeared in Ha’aretz several days ago. I believe the President of the Republic referred to it as “utterly immature.”

Obama’s foreign policy has thus far shown every sign of being deeply stuck in 2003. The world has moved on.

Obama also has made some rather stunning comments that make it sound rather like he does not intend to honor US treaty commitments to, e.g. Canada and Mexico. That’s rather internationalist of him, wouldn’t you say?

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:50 pm 110. Dave Surls:

“And if we hadn’t been…”

Good. Glad to see you’re admitting it. Yes, your nation was in fact engaged in slavery, racism, and racial/ethnic segregation for centuries and continued to be so engaged until quite recently, in the Americas, in Africa and in India (and elsewhere). You Brits have no standing to criticize or judge ANYONE on that score. Now, be so good as to quit looking down your nose at America, since we’re the victims of the racist slave system your country created, not the perpetrators of it. The only thing the nations of America are guilty of is not getting rid of the racist system introduced to the Americas by the Europeans quickly enough to suit the Europeans.

“there would have been no America”

The stupidity and arrogance of Euros never ceases to amaze me. Of course, there would have been an America, it just would have been an America without race-based slavery. Just think of it as Iceland or Canada, only warmer.

And, now, please be quiet. You’ve already demonstrated what an ill-informed fool you are. No further demonstrations are needed. Someone who wasn’t aware of the racist nature of British rule in South Africa or India might be impressed by your self-righteous bleatings about segregation in America in the 20th century, but no one who has been educated in decent schools (i.e. schools outside of Europe), and knows something about the history of Euro-imperialism is going to be impressed.

Nov 3, 2008 - 11:35 pm 111. CFM:

David Surls: Really nice work. Seriously. Do you have a blog?

Mary Jackson: I’m pretty sure he’s just having a bit of fun with you. Many of us do appreciate British contributions to civilization, you know. We’re just not in the mood at the moment for the pot/kettle thing.

Nov 4, 2008 - 12:01 am 112. Dave Surls:

“Do you have a blog?”

Nah. Too lazy.

I do enjoy teasing our European friends a bit, when they start getting on their high horse.

Nov 4, 2008 - 12:53 am 113. Jonesy55:

I like to do the same to Americans, all high horses need to be knocked over every now and then.

Nov 4, 2008 - 1:25 am 114. Mary Jackson:

Just think of it as Iceland or Canada, only warmer.

Duh, and where do you think the Canadians came from.

America without the English would have been left to the Dutch – just as bad – or the Spanish – worse.

Stop making excuses. You had slaves, and segregation. In England we have had neither. The British abolished the slave trade long before you did. But you continued to have slaves and you had segregation right until the sixties, unbeleivably.

That was your fault. Your fault alone. Take responsibility.

Nov 4, 2008 - 2:53 am 115. FromScotland:

My god you people sound like islamists,,bleating on about crap that happened before any of us were born..The fact of the matter is as europeans and americans our futures are interconnected..Also not all europeans are anti USA some of us can think for ourselves so cut out the sweeping generalisations please..

Nov 4, 2008 - 5:39 am 116. Jonesy55:

good point FromScotland, it’s worth remembering that not all USAians are raving anti-European Islamophobes either, some people just get a bit carried away on the internet.

Nov 4, 2008 - 5:51 am 117. My Rantings on Pajamas Media | Mediacondom.com:

[...] http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/european-obamaphiles-trash-the-us/ [...]

Nov 4, 2008 - 6:03 am 118. David H:

I like comment 69 and I also agree with Mary Jackson comment 114. I have given up on poltics in Europe I don’t have my pretend vote anymore for people who do not make laws or decisions. That is why I spend more time looking at a real deemocracy in action the USA. I as a Brit living in France am desperate that Obama loses, as far as I can see the USA is the last refuge of people like me, if Obama wins then where can we go?

Yes Britain was involvedin the slave trade and then a principled gentelman and member of the then funtioning UK parliment known to history as Mr Wilberforce declared it a crime against humanity and created a anti-slavery movement, he won and the British Empire then freed their slaves and actively fought against the slave trade, we were guilty and then we did the right thing. I DO NOT FEEL GUILTY!!!

In the USA you had a slave population but again anti-slavery was part of the reason for the civil war, and at the end the slaves were freed. Again you were in the wrong but did the right thing, you should not feel guilty.

Simplistic points of views on complex issues, but of cause segrgation was an abomination just as South Africa was. I think that the black rights marches in the 50’s were a good thing and still recent enough to be in the memory of living people, this is why race plays such a significant role in US politics, your guilt factor.

Everytime I go to the states I am impressed by how people are mixed together, its because your mixing as Americans, however do not think that you will have the same success with Muslims, your already seeing that if you open your eyes and look beyond the intelligent hard working ones that came first.

As for people thinking that we have Conservatives in power in Europe, Sarkozy the Socialist, has just applied a wealth tax on investment in a classic bit of wealth re-distribution that Obama would be proud of, they are false conservatives, they are not free market libertarians, they are almost as Socialist as the Socialist parties, in fact having lived through the early part of Blairs little revolution in teh UK, I see the same shape in Sarkozy, the Third Way, nope, its Socialism…

Anyway there are a lot of Brits like me, a lot of Europeans like me who cannot believe that basic freedoms have just been taken away from us like this, we need somewhere to go and if Obama wins even that will be taken away from us.

Nov 4, 2008 - 6:04 am 119. Mary Jackson:

Fromscotland – fair enough. Both countries have bad stuff in their pasts that they have now put right.

The US is not racist now, but it may become so under Obama, because he will be for “affirmative action”, which unfairly favours non-whites. After all, his wife benefited from affirmative action – she was too thick to get into Princeton on merit, but they let her in because she was black.

Whatever happened to “content of character”, as Martin Luther King said?

Nov 4, 2008 - 6:21 am 120. Jonesy55:

Davis H, name me a country in the developed world that doesn’t have a redistributive tax system? It’s not as if Obama wants to impose it while previously it hasn’t existed. High earners pay a higher % of their incomes than low earners in tax ALREADY, while services either go to everybody or get targeted at the poor.

This is redistribution, if you consider it to be ‘Socialist’ then every western leader of the past two hundred years including Reagan and Thatcher was also a Socialist.

If this is what the people want then this is what the people should have, it’s called democracy. In our countries they are free to vote for another party if they don’t like it and free to form another party if they don’t like what is currently on offer. If you don’t believe in democracy then that’s fair enough, there are places you can go like Dubai where income tax is zero because people are not permitted to vote and change that.

Nov 4, 2008 - 6:25 am 121. David H:

I can think of a couple of countries like Estonia and the other Balts have a flat rate tax system, I know that other countries have looked at that, but they like overly complicated tax systems that requires the employing legions of lawyers accountants and others to work it out.

Playing with words and the truth, both Regan and Thatcher reduced the top rate of taxes and also the rates in bands below that, they wanted the risk taker to get more money for their work, in terms of Sarkozy the Socialist he just created a new tax on investments, life insurance and rental income so that he can give money to the people in between welfare and decent wages, because the welfare people receive makes working a mugs game. I never saw Thatcher or Regan do that, so think again, they reduced the redistribution of wealth, but yes a graded or progressive system of tax is not something I am against if properly structured and does not prevent people from bothering to work, I know plenty of people in France who could develop a lot more work, but after a while they stop working, there is no point.

Are you talking about the USA or Europe, actually it depends where you are, In some countries like Belgium political parties are funded by the state only, that does not work in your example see what happened and is happening to VB based on a trumped up charge of racism, in many countries it is almost impossible to create a new party. In the UK well we have the main parties that only really have a chance to run the country because of the first past the post system. But if you mean real democracy, well that to me is making the people who create laws and take decisions directly accountable to the people, that is not the case in Europe now that 90% of laws are created by people who have been appointed to their positions, that is not democracy. So if you think that voting only for people who have no power is democracy then think again…

Democracy is not just the ability to vote however, you also need protected freedom of expression, which is now sadly lacking in Europe using so called hate laws, or thought crimes, states are now forgoing their duty to protect people who use freedom of expression, for example a professor of a university in Toulon who published an article in a French newspaper, he was told by the French state that they would not help him when Al Queda threatened his life. So far we have not seen erosion of property rights, but that is normally the last to fall, however the threat in Britain and France to take control of properties that were vacant for a period of time was disgusting and shows the future direction of Europe in terms of property rights.

Regretfully most people are not able to work out what this all means and how they should vote, we get placed in front of us people who are either hard left or centre left, Thatcher was the last person I could vote for who was what I wanted. At least in France in the first round you have a chance, though there has to be a minimum number of Mayors sponsoring a candidate which is why Le Pen has such a hard time of it, is that democracy?

But one person (alive and legit) one vote is something that I accept and want, even if many voters have the intellect of a mollusc due to the abortion of an education they have got over the last 20 odd years.

So I understand democracy very well, pity that is not the case in terms of the EU, a false and hollow one if we have ever seen one.

Nov 4, 2008 - 1:09 pm 122. Dave Surls:

“You had slaves, and segregation.”

As did you.

“In England we have had neither.”

On the contrary, slavery in England proper was allowed until the decision reached in the Somerset case in 1772.

“The British abolished the slave trade long before you did.”

No, actually the United States and the British Empire both abolished the trans-Atlantic slave trade in March 1807, with our law taking effect in January 1808. Of course, in the case of the United States this was largely pro forma, because every state, except South Carolina, had already abolished the importation of slaves from Africa.

“But you continued to have slaves…”

As did the British Empire. As a matter of fact slavery, in one form or another, continued in your empire despite its formal abolition by various acts in the 19th century. For example, debt bondage in India continued until the end of imperial rule in 1948, and still exists today. It’s estimated that millions of people are still held in debt bondage in India.

In Britains’s African colonies, slavery, though nominally abolished, in fact continued in practice.

‘[Richard Gott reminds us that "the personal and public wealth of Britain [was] created by slave labour” (Britain’s vote to end its slave trade was a precursor to today’s liberal imperialism, January 17). He goes on to say that “slavery itself was not abolished in the British empire until 1838″. In fact, Britain continued to profit from slave labour in the colonies for several more decades.’

‘The 1833 Abolition of Slavery Act is usually cited as the end of slavery in the British empire. But, as Gott notes, it was always intended to only “gradually” end slavery, and the law was initially only applied in the West Indies. Slavery was abolished in the Gold Coast in 1874 and in southern Nigeria in 1916. In 1906 in the Gambia, an ordinance was approved that anyone born after that date could not be enslaved, but remaining slaves were to be freed only on the death of their masters.’

‘In 1901, Sierra Leone passed an ordinance which ended the dealing in slaves, but individuals could still bring slaves into the country for their own use. The same ordinance did allow slaves to buy their freedom, at a sum to be fixed by the governor of not more than four pounds for an adult and two pounds for a child. When the governor wanted to abolish slavery there in 1921, Winston Churchill, then secretary of state for the colonies, replied that “the abolition of slavery could not, however, have any immediate beneficial effect on the finances of the colony” of Sierra Leone…’

‘…Slavery was finally abolished in Sierra Leone on January 1 1928, nearly a century after the Abolition of Slavery Act. In marking the end of slavery, this is the date which should be used.’

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jan/25/comment.comment

As I’ve said several times, you subjects of the British crown aren’t in any position to pass judgement on other countries when it comes to issues like racism and slavery.

“That was your fault. Your fault alone. Take responsibility.”

No, it isn’t our fault. Your country brought slavery, and racism to the American colonies, not mine. The United States isn’t responsible for what took place before it existed. Our only fault was not immediately putting an end to the problem that your country is 100% responsible for.

And, now, you really ought to hush. You’ve thoroughly beclowned yourself, and there really is no need to continue.

Nov 4, 2008 - 1:25 pm 123. Mary Jackson:

No, it isn’t our fault. Your country brought slavery, and racism to the American colonies, not mine.

How far do you want to go back? Shoud we blame the Romans for conquering us?

Nonsense. You and you alone are wholely responsible for the slavery that you practised on your own soil. You not us. You and only you are solely responsible for the segregation which, unbelievably, ended only in the 1960s.

And – most pathetic and cowardly of all – you won’t admit it.

Take responsibility.

Nov 4, 2008 - 2:40 pm 124. Mary Jackson:

And I’ll say again that the British Empire was by far the best thing that ever happened to the world – including India. If we hadn’t been there, they’d still be indulging in all their charming local customs like sati.

Countries not touched in some way by the British Empire are generally pretty awful places to live. And if the British hadn’t been powerful, it would have been the French, with all that implies.

Nov 4, 2008 - 2:45 pm 125. Mary Jackson:

you subjects of the British crown aren’t in any position to pass judgement on other countries when it comes to issues like racism and slavery.

Indeed we are. We are the best people to do so because uniquely we rose above it. All countries and nations who could have had slaves. Britain (followed in the fullness of time by the US) was the first to abolish it.

Of course in our African colonies it took time – but that is their fault not ours. The biggest slave traders were Africans, and of course Arabs, whose slave trade was of longer duration and far crueller than ours and continues to this day.

Nov 4, 2008 - 2:54 pm 126. Xixi:

This morning while waiting to vote I was chatting with a friendly black lady who told me she hoped this election would restore America in the eyes of the world.

I didn’t bother to tell her that when I lived in Germany, on numerous occasions, Germans told me we should do with blacks what they did with Jews.

People who look to Europe for validation need to look in a mirror and learn to validate their own selves. That can be done in America. Not so much in racist Europe.

Nov 4, 2008 - 3:01 pm 127. Mary Jackson:

People who look to Europe for validation need to look in a mirror and learn to validate their own selves. That can be done in America. Not so much in racist Europe.

Well I’m rather glad we don’t do anything as psychobabbly as “validate [our] own selves”.

Nov 4, 2008 - 3:07 pm 128. jonesy55:

Oooh Mary, all that empire worship is making me cringe.

Seriously how can anybody think that forced domination and exploitation of entire populations was a positive thing?

It’s pretty arrogant to think that places untouched by British imperialism are all terrible, i’d rather live in Japan, France, The Netherlands, Sweden or California than Zimbabwe, Sierra Leone, Burma or Yemen.

Nov 4, 2008 - 3:26 pm 129. Mary Jackson:

how can anybody think that forced domination and exploitation of entire populations was a positive thing?

It isn’t, but bringing the rule of law and something like civilisation to benighted parts of the world undoubtedly was.

As for our ex colonies – well, Zimbabwe was fine – by African standards – when it was Rhodesia – i.e. British. A lot of these places have gone down hill since independence because they’ve reverted to type.

Nov 4, 2008 - 3:38 pm 130. Mary Jackson:

California, is a bad example, in any case. As part of the US, it benefits from a legal system based on ours. Lucky Californians.

Nov 4, 2008 - 3:39 pm 131. Dave Surls:

“Although Southern Rhodesia never gained full Dominion status within the old Commonwealth, Southern Rhodesians ruled themselves until 1923. Its electoral register had property and education qualifications, unexceptional for the early twentieth century, which allowed white settlers to dominate the government. Over the years various electoral arrangements made at a national and municipal level allowed whites to remain dominant. For example, the franchise for the first Legislative Council election in 1899 contained the following requirement:”

“voters to be British subjects, male, 21 years of age and older, able to write their address and occupation, and then to fulfil the following financial requirements: (a) ownership of a registered mining claim in Southern Rhodesia, or (b) occupying immovable property worth £75, or (c) receiving wages or salary of £50 per annum in Southern Rhodesia. Six months’ continuous residence was also required for qualifications (b) and (c).”

“Innocuous by the standards of the time, the requirement effectively excluded blacks from the electorate. Whites never comprised more than 5% of the country’s total population, but up to 1979 they never had less than 95% of the total vote in national elections.”

Rhodesia was a British colony until 1965.

Slavery and segregationist policies were permanent fixtures in the British Empire, right up until the Empire collapsed.

Take responsibility, Mary.

“because uniquely we rose above it.”

ROTFL

Nov 4, 2008 - 6:17 pm 132. jonesy55:

Mary, apartheid states are not ‘fine’, at least not in my opinion.

Nov 4, 2008 - 6:29 pm 133. Mary Jackson:

Mary, apartheid states are not ‘fine’, at least not in my opinion.

Nor in mine. I said “by African standards”. Compare Rhodesia then and Zimbabwe now, and ask yourself which is better. Really.

Rhodesia was far, far better off when it was British. It was crap, like all African countries, but far far better off.

“because uniquely we rose above it.”

Indeed we did, being the first country to abolish an institution practised by everyone, including the US until they finally got round to it.

Nov 4, 2008 - 7:11 pm 134. Dave Surls:

“Indeed we did, being the first country to abolish an institution practised by everyone, including the US until they finally got round to it.”

Yeah, that would be a great point, except, like just about everything you say, it just isn’t true, as the information I’ve given including, quoted material, and links, amply demonstrates.

More from the Guardian article…

‘By the early 1920s Britain was under increasing pressure from the League of Nations temporary slavery commission. In 1924 Britain was forced to admit that slavery was still practised in Sierra Leone, northern Nigeria, Gambia, Aden, Burma and Hong Kong.’

‘Sierra Leone was founded for freed slaves (some in the American revolution had been promised land and freedom if they fought for Britain, but the land turned out to be in Africa). Captain WB Stanley, commissioner of the Northern Province, reported in 1924 that there were 219,275 slaves in Sierra Leone, 15% of the total population. Governor Sir Ransford Slater wrote that year: “My first impression [on arrival] was one of surprise that in Sierra Leone, of all colonies, having regard to the history of its first settlers, there should still exist, even in the hinterland, an admitted form of slavery.”‘

‘Britain in 1926 signed the League of Nations slavery convention. But it was quickly in trouble with the League, following a ruling by Sierra Leone’s supreme court on July 1 1927, which declared that the status of slavery “is clearly recognised” and thus “the use of reasonable force [by the slave's owner] in retaking of a runaway slave must also be recognised”. Court president Mr Justice Sawrey-Cookson added: “It must be as absurd to deny an owner of a slave his rights to retake a runaway slave as to deny a husband certain rights which follow on a lawfully contracted marriage.”‘

You weren’t the first nation to abolish slavery. Far from it. In Africa your colonial governmental institutions were ignoring, and even PROTECTING slavery well into the 20th century, as well as enacting and maintaining racially segregationist policies in places like Rhodesia, and South Africa into the 1960s.

You’ve made misstatement after misstatement regarding slavery, the abolition of slavery, segregationist policies in the British empire, the slave trade, etc. You can’t back up anything you say, which isn’t surprising, since what you say is rarely factually accurate. All you do is keep repeating the same inane gibberish, even after you’ve been shot down over and over again.

IOW, you’re a typical, clueless America-basher.

And, you really should just shut the hell up.

Nov 4, 2008 - 8:08 pm 135. Mary Jackson:

You weren’t the first nation to abolish slavery.

Yes we were. We beat you to it by a good sixty years.

Slavery was still practised in the colonies – we didn’t have full control over them, but we were the first country to abolish slavery at all anywhere.

And yes, Rhodesia was better under British rule -far, far better – than it is now.

Nov 4, 2008 - 8:31 pm 136. Dave Surls:

“Yes we were.”

No, you weren’t.

‘…Slavery was finally abolished in Sierra Leone on January 1 1928, nearly a century after the Abolition of Slavery Act. In marking the end of slavery, this is the date which should be used.’

And, you really should be quiet. People who tell lies go the bad place.

Nov 4, 2008 - 9:15 pm 137. jonesy55:

Where’s the bad place? Republican Party HQ tomorrow morning?

Nov 4, 2008 - 10:30 pm 138. Jonesy55:

It’s interesting how so many people, even those who claim to believe in individual responsibility and oppose collectivism, are happy to lump people together into faceless groups and either lay collective guilt upon them or claim collective credit for them.

As a person who happened to be born in Britain and who holds a UK passport, I don’t feel that I can claim credit for the Magna Carta or the invention of the railways but neither do I feel that I can realistically feel guilty about the transatlantic slave trade or Cromwell’s persecution of the Irish.

These are just historical events that occured completely independently of my existence. To identify personally with such things is to accept the legitimacy of tribalism, a very illiberal concept, (in the traditional sense of liberal, not its modern American usage)

Nov 5, 2008 - 12:22 am 139. David H:

Its interesting to see someone how seems to thinks that Tribalism is the same as identifying with a nation state, its culture and its laws, aren’t we supposed to accept diversity for example? I see Socialists always talking about socialism as being a tribe too, or even a religion and that is a very illiberal concept to me too.

Can you feel pride that in the past some of your people invented the railways, you are quite right as an individual not to feel guilt for the slave trade, but you seem to have no attachment to Britain as a country. I accept that Britain was involved in the slave trade, but I also accept that once good people decided to stop it then we did the right thing. If that had not happaned and we still traded slaves of course I would be ashamed, but we don’t and we actually spent a lot of time trying to end the slave trade.

Nov 5, 2008 - 1:38 am 140. Mary Jackson:

‘…Slavery was finally abolished in Sierra Leone on January 1 1928, nearly a century after the Abolition of Slavery Act. In marking the end of slavery, this is the date which should be used.’

Nonsense. The British were the first to initiate abolition, which is what counts. The fact that it still persisted in a small way in some benighted outposts is hardly are fault. There has always been slavery in Africa, and it was the British that took the steps towards abolishing it where we could (though it couldn’t happen overnight.

And unlike you, we never had slavery on our own soil.

Interesting that you take The Guardian as gospel in this, but no other respect.

Thomas Jefferson had slaves and had sex with them, but there you go. Apparently, voting for Obama has “redeemed” you, so that’s alright.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:21 am 141. Jonesy55:

[I]“Its interesting to see someone how seems to thinks that Tribalism is the same as identifying with a nation state, its culture and its laws, aren’t we supposed to accept diversity for example? I see Socialists always talking about socialism as being a tribe too, or even a religion and that is a very illiberal concept to me too.[/I]

Well, I like cricket but I prefer a nice risotto to a Scotch egg so do I identify with British culture? I don’t know, there isn’t a single British culture anyway, I like some aspects I dislike others.

As for the laws, I accept them because I live here. For society to function we can’t just have people picking which laws they will follow and it’s in my interest for society to function. If the laws become too bad and I prefer them elsewhere I can just go and live there.

You are right that Socialism can be very tribal, but as a collectivist philosophy that isn’t suprising. When individualists promote similar concepts, it just seems odd to me.

Nov 5, 2008 - 3:42 am 142. David H:

Well here comes the rub of it, what laws are required to make a society to function.

If we start from the UK model of being free to do what you want unless there is law that says as compared to the European version which is you are only allowed to do it if the law allows you to.

For a society to function we have to have an acceptance that while we cannot pick and chose laws that apply, tha the state does not apply bad law willy nilly.

Well British culture never stood still, however there are certain aspects that endure, like the stiff upper lip, drinking tea with milk, I could go on but it will get a bit banal. However what we are losing is the part of our culture which comes from being free, free in thought and in action, if your culture allows that then it will be a great culture.

Well I am a expat Brit and it is not as simple as you say to just up sticks, also what happens when one of those laws will be capital controls to stop people leaving?

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:37 am 143. jonesy55:

Is there a specific law in france allowing people to hop on one leg in a cornfield? If not would I be arrested for doing it?

Why do you live in France if it is so terrible?

Nov 5, 2008 - 8:34 am 144. David H:

Actually you would fall foul of the law on damaging standing crops, I will have to look up which one that is though. You can assume that the law will be assessed to see whether you complied with the law or not.

The Mountains, the food, the wine, the people outside of Paris, the size of the house and land I could buy for the cost of a rabbit hutch in the UK, the education system, not fully dumbed down yet like the UK, but getting there, superb railways. Against that the tax, tax and yet more tax, the arrogant attitude of Parisians, the new French and the low wages outside Paris and of course the EU and the lack of real representative democracy. Its a balance like anything, which is why I found your comment about upping sticks a bit of a joke, because everywhere you go you will have to accept the rough with the smooth. I love it here, but its less and less the France I love and evantually I will leave and I was intending to go to the USA, which I hope Obama and his crowd do not destroy

Nov 5, 2008 - 9:32 am 145. Josh:

“Waaahhhh! The Europeans are laughing at us! Waaaa!!! Mommy, tell them to stop! They’re so mean to me! Waaaaaahhh!!! I’m a loser Republican and I can’t handle being laughed at by Europeans…Waaahhh!!”

Nov 5, 2008 - 12:00 pm 146. Dave Surls:

“Where’s the bad place? Republican Party HQ tomorrow morning?”

LOL. I would imagine they’re none too happy right about now.

“And unlike you, we never had slavery on our own soil.”

In fact, despite your lies, there were slaves in the U.K. proper, but even if there weren’t, it wouldn’t be especially noble of your precious empire to enslave millions of people overseas and not allow them into Great Britain, although I’m sure, in your addled mind, keeping the enslaved “wogs” out of Britain is a sign of the great nobility and purity of your empire.

The main reason there weren’t too many slaves in the U.K. proper is because your precious empire already had a workforce. And, in Ireland you brutalized and oppressed that workforce and instituted policies that reduced the Irish to a state worse than that of the slaves in the United States. Somewhere on the order of 1,000,000 Irish are thought to have died in the great famine of 1845-49, a famine created by your imperialist policies. While British imperialists stripped Ireland of every shilling they could, and exported food out of Ireland, hundreds of thousands of Irish died from starvation and disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Potato_Famine_(1845-1849)

Slavery in America was harsh, cruel and wicked, but even the slaveowners wouldn’t allow a million people to die of disease and starvation in just five years the way you Brits did.

You’re in no position to judge us. And, your empire was a foul stinking blot on the pages of mankind’s history, which is exactly why no one that has been freed from it wants it back.

Nov 5, 2008 - 12:27 pm 147. Josh:

Just looked up your book on amazon. Boy, you really brought the house down with that whiny book about how Europeans make fun of idiot Red State Americans.

Nov 5, 2008 - 12:31 pm 148. Mary Jackson:

, your empire was a foul stinking blot on the pages of mankind’s history,

Without which you wouldn’t be where you are today. Lucky you.

The British Empire was and remains the best thing that ever happened to this world.

Nov 5, 2008 - 2:09 pm 149. Dave Surls:

“the best thing that ever happened to this world.”

Right up there with malaria and smallpox.

Nov 5, 2008 - 5:13 pm 150. Mary Jackson:

and smallpox.

For which an Englishman discovered a cure. How lucky the world is.

Nov 5, 2008 - 5:54 pm 151. Dave Surls:

“It’s interesting how so many people, even those who claim to believe in individual responsibility and oppose collectivism, are happy to lump people together into faceless groups and either lay collective guilt upon them…”

For my part, I absolve you of any guilt, collective or otherwise, for crimes committed by the British Empire.

I doubt if you’re enough to be the guy who bitchslapped Gunga Din.

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:37 pm 152. Dave Surls:

Make that “OLD enough to be the guy who bitchslapped Gunga Din.”.

Nov 5, 2008 - 7:38 pm 153. David H:

Mary Jackson, why bother, he could not win on Slavery so he went down the Irish route.

Mr Surls, at the time of the Irish Potato famine I also understand that a lot of working class Brits were also dying of hunger, I suppose that justifies me bombing a rememberence pararde for that?

And I can never have any respect for anyone using words like bitchslapped and its negativity towards the fairer sex, do you really believe in equality?

Nov 6, 2008 - 7:22 am 154. Marco di Luce:

the question to be asked repeatedly with “eurpoeans”: why didn’t such a thing that happened in the united states happen or is ever likely to happen in europe? a turk for president or prime miniter in holland or germany, a pakistani or indian in the uk, a moroccan in france etc………….. obama’s victory was the biggest ever proof of american tolerance and greatness indeed!

Nov 6, 2008 - 9:03 am 155. Jane:

I grew up in Belgium and Belgians are incredibly racist. They might not admit it and not even see it themselves, but they are. They don’t like folks from Zaire/Congo, they don’t like the Italians that came in the 1950s, they don’t like the Eastern Europeans coming over now, they hate the North Africans, etc. They have no idea how to integrate. And yet, they criticize the US constantly. Just like many dems, many Belgians think not voting for Obama means you’re racist.

It’s just sickening. Being called racist, idiotic, redneck, brainwashed, war monger, etc when these are all wrong. Even my (Belgian) family believes this. I either don’t say anything to not screw up a nice 1-week vacation visiting them or I try to nicely defend myself. Which of course is pretty hard in a language I speak only about 5 days/year if I’m lucky.

Sometimes I think it’d be good if they had a bad terrorist attack. Maybe that would teach them. I feel awful for thinking this, but then I realize it wouldn’t change anything. We’ve seen how the Spaniards & the British react: give in. And, they’d probably blame us anyway. Nothing’s their fault after all.

Nov 6, 2008 - 9:17 am 156. Mary Jackson:

Sometimes I think it’d be good if they had a bad terrorist attack

That remark probably explains why people call you idiotic and a redneck. Not all Americans, just you.

a pakistani or indian in the uk,

We have had an ethnic Jew, albeit a convert, and of course a woman. Hell would freeze over before there’s a woman president of the US.

Nov 6, 2008 - 11:06 am 157. Dave Surls:

“Mary Jackson, why bother, he could not win on Slavery…”

LOL. Yeah. Mary’s quite the debater all right: Tell absurd lie, repeat, repeat, repeat. Right out of the Joey Goebbels debators handbook.

“They [Belgians] don’t like folks from Zaire/Congo”

Obviously. Just a few years back, the Belgians murdered millions of Congolese and turned the Congo Free State into a vast slave labor camp, per usual Euro imperialist practice…

http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocong.htm

The Belgians weren’t doing that kind of stuff because they loved the Congolese.

Euros love to talk about the few thousand lynchings that took place in America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They aren’t quite so vocal about their own use of slave labor and the full blown genocide they were engaging in in Africa at the same time those lynchings were taking place.

Nasty boys, those Euros. A lot nastier than Americans.

Nov 6, 2008 - 12:10 pm 158. Ben Florsheim:

Ask yourself honestly whether a white woman with Condoleezza Rice’s achievement would be called “brilliant”.

Without doubt Rice is highly focused and intelligent. However, history is likely to find that she did little more than punt on the important issues in her remit – China, Russia, Iran, Korea, Europe, South America.

She often seemed to practice diplomacy by the numbers, an acolyte of outdated academic theories rather than real world concerns, and lost the struggle to stay above the institutional group-think at Foggy Bottom.

Nov 6, 2008 - 4:10 pm 159. jonesy55:

Dave, you guys weren’t exactly all sweetness and light as you swept across North America during the 19th century, destroying every nation you came into contact with as you fulfilled your manifest destiny!

As your enlightened presidents said:

“Indians…were wolves and beasts who deserved nothing from the whites but ‘total ruin’ – George Washington

[The US government is obliged]…to pursue [Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach” – Thomas Jefferson

“…to root out from their ‘dens’ and kill Indian women and their ‘whelps’” – Andrew Jackson

I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. – Theodire Roosevelt

Not that we were any better in Australia of course.

Nov 7, 2008 - 12:04 am 160. David H:

What a truly infantile conversation, blaming each other over illiberal acts, millions of Europeans were taken by the Barbary pirates, never mentioned, the 80 milllion Buddists and Hindus killed by the Islamic invasion of India, never mentioned, the much larger number of black slaves (in comparison to the number shipped to the new world) taken by Islam, let alone that this is still happening now, never mentioned… Very sad indeed, segregation was ended in the 60’s, it does not exist now and there is no ceiling for Black people as Obama proves, only their own education and capabilities and own hang ups (like blame and hate the white man) blocks them. The world is mad and many people are completely lacking in common sense…

Nov 7, 2008 - 6:39 am 161. Mary Jackson:

the much larger number of black slaves (in comparison to the number shipped to the new world) taken by Islam, let alone that this is still happening now, never mentioned…

I mention the Arab slave trade at in comment 125. As you say,it was much harsher than anything the Americans or the British did.

Nov 7, 2008 - 8:04 am 162. Dave Surls:

“What a truly infantile conversation, blaming each other…”

It’s not about blame, it’s about pointing out what hypocrites the Euros are when they start sneering about American slavery, racism and discriminatory practices.

Pots and kettles sort of thing, only the Euro pot is a lot blacker than the American kettle, if you want to be honest about it.

Nov 7, 2008 - 1:51 pm

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