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	<title>Comments on: Even Polygamists Are Innocent Until Proven Guilty</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/</link>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-60339</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-60339</guid>
		<description>only in the good old USA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>only in the good old USA</p>
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		<title>By: Steph</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49855</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49855</guid>
		<description>God bless you for using logic to form an opinion regarding this mess. Having followed the Jeffs saga for a while I was one of the first to pump my fist when I had heard that the children had been confiscated only to retract that opinion when it became obvious that these children had been snatched without due process. 

Yes, what happens in many of these compounds is horrific and yes I would love nothing more than to see these children given the opportunity to mature prior to being forced into adult familial relationships but still... when we as a nation condone the removal of children from their parents without due process we not only do those children a disservice we also weaken our own position in typical &quot;boy who cried wolf&quot; fashion.

This is the best article I&#039;ve read to date on this subject, hands down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God bless you for using logic to form an opinion regarding this mess. Having followed the Jeffs saga for a while I was one of the first to pump my fist when I had heard that the children had been confiscated only to retract that opinion when it became obvious that these children had been snatched without due process. </p>
<p>Yes, what happens in many of these compounds is horrific and yes I would love nothing more than to see these children given the opportunity to mature prior to being forced into adult familial relationships but still&#8230; when we as a nation condone the removal of children from their parents without due process we not only do those children a disservice we also weaken our own position in typical &#8220;boy who cried wolf&#8221; fashion.</p>
<p>This is the best article I&#8217;ve read to date on this subject, hands down.</p>
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		<title>By: transcended</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49744</link>
		<dc:creator>transcended</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49744</guid>
		<description>This case, just like any other case that showcases the glaring disrespect for the welfare of children (and women) in favour of criminal &quot;rights&quot; (think Megan&#039;s Law), the sleeping minds of America often finally wake up loudly to get laws changed. Necessity and blatant immorality should be the impetitus for change.

 One such change should start with the veil of religious freedom that enables (and protects) Cults such as FLDS and their &quot;Prophets&quot; from the laws that we as American citizens must abide by. America is not Saudi Arabia and as such we, as American citizens, do not live under the Sharia ideology shared by Jeffs and the Muslims Mullahs, nor should we make exceptions based on bogus religion - made by men - for the benefit of men. Equality in America must always begin with gender equality. When it comes to marriage and sex neither women nor men should be at the mercy of another sex. Nothing less should be the prevailing ideology of the land of the free and home of the brave. Freedom starts there. Control over our OWN bodies(person)first, then, branches out from there. 

 Considering the enormous basket of alleged crimes against children that are perpetrated within the breeding grounds of ALL FLDS cults in ANY state, not only would local laws (that allow such practices to be overlooked) but Federal laws need revamping as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This case, just like any other case that showcases the glaring disrespect for the welfare of children (and women) in favour of criminal &#8220;rights&#8221; (think Megan&#8217;s Law), the sleeping minds of America often finally wake up loudly to get laws changed. Necessity and blatant immorality should be the impetitus for change.</p>
<p> One such change should start with the veil of religious freedom that enables (and protects) Cults such as FLDS and their &#8220;Prophets&#8221; from the laws that we as American citizens must abide by. America is not Saudi Arabia and as such we, as American citizens, do not live under the Sharia ideology shared by Jeffs and the Muslims Mullahs, nor should we make exceptions based on bogus religion &#8211; made by men &#8211; for the benefit of men. Equality in America must always begin with gender equality. When it comes to marriage and sex neither women nor men should be at the mercy of another sex. Nothing less should be the prevailing ideology of the land of the free and home of the brave. Freedom starts there. Control over our OWN bodies(person)first, then, branches out from there. </p>
<p> Considering the enormous basket of alleged crimes against children that are perpetrated within the breeding grounds of ALL FLDS cults in ANY state, not only would local laws (that allow such practices to be overlooked) but Federal laws need revamping as well.</p>
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		<title>By: griefer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49263</link>
		<dc:creator>griefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Its not a bad day for me.
Its a very bad day for every prepubescent child in the LDS though.
;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its not a bad day for me.<br />
Its a very bad day for every prepubescent child in the LDS though.<br />
 <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: griefer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49262</link>
		<dc:creator>griefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49262</guid>
		<description>Oh, hey Ten.
Me an Dr. Pournelle are still arguin it out in gmail.
I&#039;ll let you know how that comes out.
;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, hey Ten.<br />
Me an Dr. Pournelle are still arguin it out in gmail.<br />
I&#8217;ll let you know how that comes out.<br />
 <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: griefer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49261</link>
		<dc:creator>griefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 02:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49261</guid>
		<description>Gee, i think the state of Texas will win, if the fear of prosecution with the DNA results runs the polygs back to Utah.
It is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.house.state.tx.us/news/release.php?id=1210&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what Texas wanted all along.&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;The ambiguity of current Texas law has allowed for alleged crimes to be committed under the practice of religious freedom. Allegations including, but not limited to, practices of bigamy, polygamy, child abuse, incest, domestic violence, child endangerment, denial of equal education services or opportunities, election and welfare fraud are rampant in these religious sects, also known as &quot;The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

&quot;The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that while the government may not restrict religious beliefs, they may restrict religious practices. The court has said that no religious actions may violate general laws. Underage marriage, parental consent, education issues, and election fraud are all general laws. . . &quot;

If the polygs cut and run back to Utah, Texas wins.
If they stay they can be prosecuted with the DNA results under Texas law.
Looks like the only loozers are the kiddos to me, michele.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, i think the state of Texas will win, if the fear of prosecution with the DNA results runs the polygs back to Utah.<br />
It is <a href="http://www.house.state.tx.us/news/release.php?id=1210" rel="nofollow">what Texas wanted all along.</a><br />
&#8220;The ambiguity of current Texas law has allowed for alleged crimes to be committed under the practice of religious freedom. Allegations including, but not limited to, practices of bigamy, polygamy, child abuse, incest, domestic violence, child endangerment, denial of equal education services or opportunities, election and welfare fraud are rampant in these religious sects, also known as &#8220;The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.</p>
<p>&#8220;The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that while the government may not restrict religious beliefs, they may restrict religious practices. The court has said that no religious actions may violate general laws. Underage marriage, parental consent, education issues, and election fraud are all general laws. . . &#8221;</p>
<p>If the polygs cut and run back to Utah, Texas wins.<br />
If they stay they can be prosecuted with the DNA results under Texas law.<br />
Looks like the only loozers are the kiddos to me, michele.</p>
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		<title>By: Ten</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49238</link>
		<dc:creator>Ten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49238</guid>
		<description>Oops.  

Rights 1, moralists 0.  

Sorry moralists.  Sorry guilt-presumers.  Sorry kidnappers, child-abusers, haters, bigots, religious oppressors, socialists and nanny statists.  Apparently the rules won this time.

Score one for the Ole&#039; Republic.  Score one for rights.  For sanity.  For freedom, due process, and an expidicious decision from the folks who just made the CPS pee it&#039;s Personal Liability(tm) corduroy underwear.

Even Jerry Pournelle piled on and made this a very bad day for griefer.

lulz.  
;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops.  </p>
<p>Rights 1, moralists 0.  </p>
<p>Sorry moralists.  Sorry guilt-presumers.  Sorry kidnappers, child-abusers, haters, bigots, religious oppressors, socialists and nanny statists.  Apparently the rules won this time.</p>
<p>Score one for the Ole&#8217; Republic.  Score one for rights.  For sanity.  For freedom, due process, and an expidicious decision from the folks who just made the CPS pee it&#8217;s Personal Liability(tm) corduroy underwear.</p>
<p>Even Jerry Pournelle piled on and made this a very bad day for griefer.</p>
<p>lulz.<br />
 <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: transcended</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49230</link>
		<dc:creator>transcended</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49230</guid>
		<description>Wrong Michele. Criminals win. Mothers who lie to protect their husbands get a second chance to mess their children up. 

The children lose. Jeffs and his flds pedos love you.

I&#039;m glad it&#039;s only temporary. What you should be hoping for next is that these people don&#039;t simply take vanish without a trace. 

Interesting article on the pattern of lies FLDS children and young wives are taught to give to cover-up the Cult practices of Yearning For Zion brought to us by Warren Jeffs.  http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-polygamists_25tex.ART.State.Edition2.467ff56.html

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong Michele. Criminals win. Mothers who lie to protect their husbands get a second chance to mess their children up. </p>
<p>The children lose. Jeffs and his flds pedos love you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad it&#8217;s only temporary. What you should be hoping for next is that these people don&#8217;t simply take vanish without a trace. </p>
<p>Interesting article on the pattern of lies FLDS children and young wives are taught to give to cover-up the Cult practices of Yearning For Zion brought to us by Warren Jeffs.  <a href="http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-polygamists_25tex.ART.State.Edition2.467ff56.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-polygamists_25tex.ART.State.Edition2.467ff56.html</a></p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: michele</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49212</link>
		<dc:creator>michele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49212</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Congratulations michele and darleen.&lt;/i&gt;

Due process is the winner here. And for that, we all win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Congratulations michele and darleen.</i></p>
<p>Due process is the winner here. And for that, we all win.</p>
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		<title>By: griefer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/comment-page-5/#comment-49210</link>
		<dc:creator>griefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/even-polygamists-are-innocent-until-proven-guilty/#comment-49210</guid>
		<description>oh..i dont get to comment anymore.
haha, forgot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh..i dont get to comment anymore.<br />
haha, forgot.</p>
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