Pajamas Media

253 Comments

1. Marc Malone:

Any chance of a slander or libel suit? Nah, I didn’t think so. ‘Course, you might end up in an oven. (Gallows Humor. Ugh!)

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:55 am 2. TomF:

25 million is only the initial elimination. As history has demonstrated, it will take a continuing flow of victims to maintain this ideology. Killing millions of others is vile and unimaginable, but the communist ideology of the 20th century has done the unimaginable killing over 100 million of its own people. Neither are justifiable, but there is an increased insidiousness in this betrayal. Soviet children were taught in school, that a hero was one who would even turned in his own parents. To a normal American it is unimaginable to sit in a room discussing these issues, but we must not be naive to reality of the wickedness of some people. Whatever can be said of McCain, this is one thing that McCain “gets”. And any president of the United States of American must “get” this, above all else. In America, we were taught in schools that a hero was one who fought against this oppression. What are children taught now?

Oct 28, 2008 - 2:45 am 3. Frank:

Ayers is gutter scum of the lowest order

Oct 28, 2008 - 2:50 am 4. Gary Ogletree:

The cowardice of bullies. You can see it in Billy’s favorite student.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:24 am 5. C. Siegel:

Only special enlightened people like Billy and Bernadine and their pals with the advanced degrees from elite institutions are qualified to select for mass killing and re-education.
It is especially poignant that only Larry Grathwohl, the ordinary shmoe, even brought up “trivial issues” like responsibility for the economy, management, and administration. Grathwohl is very perceptive when he notes that Billy Ayers would rather send his women to do the dirty work.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:27 am 6. Forget the N-word, it’s time to use the C-word « Mark Epstein:

[...] disobedience than already suggested by Obama, (5) increase support of radicals/fringe elements that agree with Obama, (6) support media outlets that praise/idolize Obama (despite the American public’s [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:39 am 7. TomP:

Ayers is chickensh!t. He claims that “they should have done more”? Go ahead, Billy, plant some more bombs, who’s stopping you? Uh-oh, you’d get caught THIS time, though, (a-la OJ Simpson), and have to give up your cushy university job and the swank Hyde Park lifestyle you enjoy for the cold cell of a Federal prison. Some revolutionary! I think you’re what the marxists called “useful idiots”. Maybe your old lady still has the cajones to do it. After reading this article, obviously you NEVER had ‘em!

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:40 am 8. Donna V.:

If they hadn’t actually killed innocent people, the Weathermen could be considered comic – a bunch of stoned trust fund kids playing at Revolution. I have no doubt Ayers was serious about killing 25 million Americans. Implementing a US version of the Cultural Revolution was probably his biggest fantasy. Alas, the fantasy falls apart when you imagine a ragtag hippie army attempting to take over Camp Pendleton. Heck, that would make a great video game.

Unfortunately, the left’s long march through the institutions is not nearly so funny. And the thought that millions of sleepwalking Americans might actually put Ayers’ old buddy into the WH next Tuesday is downright terrifying.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:41 am 9. cfbleachers:

I’m not sure what it says about a man who picks his friends and mentors off the walls of the local post office.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:01 am 10. RE:

Ayers is an absolutely despicable individual.

One must be educated beyond intelligence to condone, dismiss, or excuse such a life form.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:05 am 11. warren:

Jeez. You guys still live in the 60’s. Please pay attention and try to offer solutions to the problems at hand.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:12 am 12. Bubba Steve Atl.:

Vote for William Ayers as the Minstrel of (re)Education.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:16 am 13. fear Obama?:

Sen. Barack Hussen Obama

“…just to take a, sort of a realist perspective…there’s a lot of change going on outside of the Court, um, that, that judges essentially have to take judicial notice of. I mean you’ve got World War II, you’ve got uh, uh, uh, the doctrines of Nazism, that, that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.”

Our new President has been well trained by De Fuhrer Ayers.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:19 am 14. RE:

warren,

Ayers involvement in the education system is a huge ‘problem at hand’. Obama’s sympathy for the Ayers worldview is even more so.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:37 am 15. fear Obama?:

• A meeting between two people who complete each other, who are made for each other, borders already, in my opinion, on a miracle.

• Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future.

• By the skilful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.

• I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker.

• It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

• Keep telling a lie until it becomes the truth.

• I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.

• Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.

• He who controls the mind of the youth, controls the future.

• What good fortune for governments that the people do not think.

Quotes by Obama or Bill Ayers?

Na. – Adolf Hitler!

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:49 am 16. Valerie:

I think the phrase is “banality of evil.” Bill Ayers is a person who likes the idea of killing masses of human beings for no good reason. I suspect that his politics are just an excuse for toying with the idea of mass murder. The only reason the rest of us were saved is that his followers woke up to the consequences of his nonsense after some of their friends managed to blow themselves up.

Peter Q. Richkid, Bill Ayers, has gotten a pass on attempted murder simply because nobody aside from his radical friends wants to believe that the evil he espouses (pun intended) exists. He has a lot in common with Steven Dale Green, see Meet Pvt. Green. The really chilling thing about this article is the reporter’s total inability to recognize that he was talking to a sociopath. Ayers is also a sociopath.

I have had the misfortune of having to deal with only two people like this in my entire life. It’s not that they are hard to spot: you just do not want to take them at their word. My problem with Barack Obama is not that I believe he buys into Ayers’ nonsense. My problem is that, at age 48, this man, at best, can’t tell the difference between an ordinary man and a blatantly evil one, and so he saw nothing extraordinary in either Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright. I have a problem with judgment so innocent in a grown man.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:15 am 17. The Wide Awake Cafe » Terrorist Bill Ayers’ Feeling the Heat:

[...] Bob Owens of Pajamas Media caught up with Weather insider/FBI informant Larry Grathwohl recently and asked him about the Weathermen, then and now, and the relationship between Bill Ayers and Barack Obama. It’s a pretty eye opening interview. [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:20 am 18. SiouxLady:

Gee,7:45 AM CDT and only one person who may qualify as a troll! Wonder why? Warren, this is not about the ’60’s. Billy is just one heart throb away from the presidency of a man who helped him indoctrinate children in radicalism a few short years ago. The solution is simple; vote McCain-Palin!

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:21 am 19. Jack is Back:

If you take “change” out of the Obama rhetoric and substitute “fear” then it more approximates what we are in store for if he is elected. Fear we can believe in! Fear is coming to Washington. Fear for America. The radical doctrine whether be it fascist or communist or terrorist is always based on instilling fear – fear of your neighbor, fear of the police, fear of the jew, fear of the elite, etc. Fear is where the dynamic of Obama and his friends group hug.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:22 am 20. Bogdan of Australia:

Nothing new in Ayers’ diabolic, insane dreams. One of the last living fossils of our own former Australian Communist Party (I forgot his noble name, though) admitted recently in the interview for The Australian that it was a central element of the Australian Communists’ doctrine that upon winning the power Down Under, they were to embark on mass killing not only of real but also of the “prospective” opponents of the new regime. Nor Obama’s attempt to presnt himself as a moderate reformer is by any means “revolutionary” for revolutionaries. After the WW2,Communists in the Eastern Europe have also played the game of “moderates” to dupe the distrustful local population and an infantile societies of the so called “Western World”. Unfortunately, those hudreds of thousands murdered by communists througout Eastern Europe are real and those numbers certainly not moderate. For people like myself, who have escaped the barbarity of commuism, it is an immense, personal drama to observe as the resurgent communo-fascism is making an attempt to grab the political power in the very bastion of freedom and democracy.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:30 am 21. ex-democrat:

You have to admire the logic: how do you deal with the “logistics for the elimination of 25 million people.” ?

Answer: by poisoning education of the young so that there aren’t any people in america that believe in capitalism.

i.e.Exactly the solution that “25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers,” would come up.

NOBAMA

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:34 am 22. Bart:

As a conservative, I always try to give the other person I disagree with the benefit of the doubt when I can. From the beginning, I have tried to reconcile the information that comes out about Obama with some of my own youthful indiscretions and emotional extremes over perceived social injustices. It has been a very difficult path but eventually, after so many damning exposes’ of who this man really is, no longer can I even remotely mount a miniscule defense on his behalf. He truly is a man in direct opposition to everything America stands for. He is totally for an extreme form of socialism. He is truly steeped in the Marxist doctrine and will if given the opportunity attempt to impose his convictions and beliefs on the American people.

I tried to apply reason and validity to his association with Ayers but after so many revelations, there is no way on this earth he did not know about Ayers’ radical politics from the very beginning. He was raised by a radical mother, lived in a home with his grandparents and learned even more radical views from his grandfather, another failure who thought the world owed him a living, made friends with the fringe element, was mentored by a communist, and the list goes on and on. His attendance in a Muslim school in Indonesia as a young man had to have an influence on him. I just do not buy his explanation that he found it all boring and was constantly in trouble by not paying attention and being irreverant in class. In a Muslim school, that type behavior is not tolerated. Think about it!

He believes the Constitution is a negative document. He believes America is following some Nazi doctrine. The man is who he is – a radical, socialist, black religious theologist, and a —— hell, words escape me. The problem is this. He has made no secret of who he is and when he offers an explanation, his worshippers believe him. He can twist the truth until it looks like a renegade pretzel and his supporters think he is speaking with the wisdom of the ages. Barack Obama knows this and uses it to his advantage! I am convinced that he now believes he is the man his subjects believe him to be. I am convinced Barack Hussein Obama actually believes once he is inaugurated, the seas will start to recede, the air will be cleaner, wealth will be redistributed, everyone will live in harmony, and the entire litany of Utopian ideals we grew up reading about.

Not once in my entire life have I witnessed anything like this phenomenom called Obamamania and believe me, I have been around for a long time. Even the Beatles cannot hold a candle to this madness and loss of sanity and clear thinking by the young people in America. It is even worse when you see the Obama stickers on automobiles driven by wealthy, middle aged elitists.

If Obama wins as expected and has a supermajority in congress to be his subordinates, this country just may go in a direction the majority will find very distasteful but not able to correct the course in the future. This fact alone angers me to no end with the Republican Party and its selfish, self centered actions over the past eight years. The Republican Party no longer represents the people it claims to. We have been left behind once again. The Democrats did it many years ago and now, the Republicans. Those of us who are not racists, religious fanatics, left or right wing radicals, bigots, racists, or homophobes have no place left to go. We are the majority but have no leader. GWB left us a long time ago and McCain is truly another Bush in more ways than one.

Hold on everyone. If Obama wins on the 4th, it will be as Bette Davis said, “a bumpy ride”>

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:35 am 23. Ex-fetus:

OT; Does anybody know if this Ayers is related to the Ayers family that General Patton’s wife (Beatrice Banning Ayer) came from? If so, could he be Mrs George Patton’s nephew?

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:41 am 24. Ken Mueller:

I must have missed something during the 60s and 70s. Is there a time frame beyond which these crimes cannot be prosecuted? Or was he just given a pass by some other “useful idiot?”

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:42 am 25. AlexinCT:

The same people that soon will determine who needs to be taxed more, how they need to be taxed more, and why they need to be taxed more, are also the kind that have no problem going a step further and deciding who gets to live and who gets to die once they get their revolution on. Just a matter of incrementalism I guess for these Ivy League intellectuals. Things are about to get ugly.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:52 am 26. M .Din:

This is a very well done story. I do not know the writter but it is an example of how news used to be covered. The story actually answers all of the basic journalistic five “w” requirements ( who what, where, when and how). Such a story is a rare find these days. The five W’s are no longer central to modern jounalism. The five W of good jouranlism have been replaced. And that has sad meaning for any democracy. People hunger for good journalism that asks penetrating questions.
Last night on the O’Reilly factor on the tactics of the reporter from South. Fla who dared to question Sen Biden were presented. It was agreed by all parties that the reporter could have asked the question in a better manner. To the two guests in the follow up the substance of the questions themselves were not as important as how they were asked and if they were fair. The fact that Sen Biden did not answer them fully was not at all at issue That did not seem to matter. At least reporter found the courage to ask the questions that the majority of reporters are afraid seem so afraid to ask for fear of losing acess. It was also noted that the reporter trained under Peter Jennings. Perhaps that is why she found the courage to ask the questions. It used to be the question relevence that mattered not how you asked them. So much of news today seems to focus on emotion and the personal feelings of the person being interviewed. “Fair” and “forewarned” for future acess seem to have become the jounalistic standards. The five W of journalism so clearly used in most of your stories are no longer of value. They have been dispensed with. Perhaps ‘that’ is at the core of the decline of news and what is also at stake with this election.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:52 am 27. Wellspring:

It’s hard to see how this is even vaguely defensible. When this comes up, my left-wing friends get very defensive and outraged but still haven’t come up with a reason why this shouldn’t be in play and isn’t deeply disturbing. If this guy was Eric Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh and the candidate was John McCain, what would the Left be saying?

When Ron Paul was caught in a very similar scandal (with those magazine articles), his campaign collapsed. Libertarians and conservatives, even those who greatly respected him, immediately saw this as disqualifying. The fact that Ayers has gotten off, that he’s totally gotten away with it, and that he’s now an object of at very least embarrassed affection (if that?) among the left-wing elite should be deeply disturbing to liberals.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:58 am 28. RE:

Ex-fetus,

If there were such a relationship, it would be completely irrelevant.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:58 am 29. Montaigne's Cat:

I met Bill Ayers in 1968.

I was a student at CWRU in Cleveland and attended a small SDS meeting that Ayers and Terry Robbins came to address. Robbins was positively a psychopath. He had hollow rage-filled eyes and meeting him was one of the most profoundly scary encounters in my life. Ayers sat grinning with his stare fixated on some internal images, nodding in agreement as Robbins propounded the need for revolutionary violence. Their message was that change was going to come, and by violent means because the democratic process was ineffectual at that particular historical moment.

They both got off on the righteous idea and image of what was gonna happen. Until that day, I thought opposition to the Vietnam War was noble. My disillusionment that day was seeing clearly that to the leaders of that opposition, it was a strategy for them to seize power, and that they would gladly call violence down upon the heads of their followers. They believed that blood must flow.

Ayers’ goals have not changed one iota. Robbins died making a bomb that blew up in a NYC brownstone and reduced the building, and himself, to smithereens.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:05 am 30. Jeff:

Ayers and Obama are very close. They rubbed shoes together in an office for three years. No way that they did not discuss issues of the day. Even if you give Obama the benefit of the doubt, and assume he did not look at society through Ayers lens; reading the text of what Obama says gives you the impression that he believes and agrees with Ayers the radical professor, while not agreeing with Ayers the bomb thrower.

Many people I have met in Chicago think Ayers was justified because he was protesting an unjust war. It is an amazing thought process to witness. Most of these people are lawyers.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:05 am 31. R a Z o R:

O B A M A = A Y E R S

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:35 am 32. First Annual Obamaday Celebration:

[...] The One, and capture it all on a cell-phone video and upload it to YouTube.  Meanwhile, Bob Owens interviews ex-FBI informant Larry Grathwohl: Pajamas Media: Scattered news accounts on the Internet note that you were instrumental in foiling [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:36 am 33. dispatches from TJICistan » Blog Archive » Holocaust 2.0 (delivery date has slipped a bit):

[...] http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/eyewitness-…; [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:36 am 34. Loren A. Jacobs:

Six days and counting. Vote, people, vote. Pray, people, pray.

Papasnake

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:38 am 35. pst314:

“Ayers is gutter scum of the lowest order”

That’s precisely why academia loves him.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:45 am 36. Greg Toombs:

Consider that Obama has built long term relationships with and taken instruction or direction from Bill Ayers, Rev Wright and his church of Black Liberation Theory (google it, if necessary) and Rashid Khalidi.

Given the the short time Obama’s held any public positions and the paucity of his public record, what are we to think when we look deeper in search of his values and principles, as we search for clues to his future policies?

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:45 am 37. Greg Toombs:

Sorry. Theology.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:46 am 38. ex-democrat:

nice try, “Bart”, but if Obamamania is the disease, buying into the kind of MSM/Demo talking points you cite is the gaping wound that allowed it to fester.
The Republican Party is not the repository of “racists, religious fanatics, left or right wing radicals, bigots, racists, or homophobes.” And neither is McCain or Palin.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:47 am 39. william:

Face it!. Stand on your strength and freedom
It is what it is.
Don’t back down from the scummy media or people like Ayers.
We are stronger then they are. So start acting like it.
William at http://www.strongerthandeath.net.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:55 am 40. Why Obama MUST NOT Be Elected: Part II « Grand Rants:

[...] a follow-up to that, Bob Owens of Confederate Yankee and Pajamas Media sought out and interviewed Mr. Grathwohl recently, and posted part of their discussion online. Two [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:04 am 41. R a Z o R:

Sarah Palin’s look-a-like HUNG

H A N G * P A L I N * H I G H
________________________________

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fXML5jRQL3w
________________________________

Obama’s hate filled supporters

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:05 am 42. Lance Woodward:

Have any of you heard a theory about why Obama refuses to discuss anything about his two(?) years at Columbia U?

Is it probable (rather than possible) that it was because he hooked up with Ayers and Dohrn when they all were in NYC at the same time?

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:15 am 43. Snowflakes in Hell » All You Need to Hear:

[...] an interview with Larry Grathwohl, who infiltrated the Weather Underground as an FBI informant: The instructions I received from [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:21 am 44. Bill in NY:

Listen to the Wall Street traders who have spent their lives watching the markets go up and down, and seen it all, until now… “This makes no sense. Oil prices are down, interest rates are down, stocks are down, and even gold is down. This is chaos”. Why? Only one explanation: fear. Not just economic, but political. We are already seeing the Obama effect in the stock market. Get ready, if this guy wins… it means trouble.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:24 am 45. Aaron Zeal:

Republican Terrorism

I received the latest attempt by the Republican Party to instill fear in the public by perpetuating the weak link between Barack Obama and William Ayers. I was struck first by the arrogance of the Republican Party, which banks on ignorance to leverage votes, then by the irony of this blatant attempt at fear mongering, which depends on lack of knowledge to successfully misrepresent facts, and since terrorism is the loudest note trumpeted by the Party, I peeled away the rhetoric and discovered the truth within. Terrorism is not limited to car bombings. Terrorism includes policies, propaganda, coercion, or other “non-violent” means to create a sense of terror. It is a method of subjugation, and as such, typically demonstrates a lack of legitimacy and/or morality on the part of the perpetrator (or the Party). Unfortunately, as was the case in 1930’s Germany, when propaganda and messages of fear were used to stereotype an entire race of peoples as anti-Aryan, the Republicans use similar tactics to cast those who are not social conservatives as anti-American. The parallels are frightening—the Nazi party was based on social conservatism and nationalism—but when fear is the message (and motive) it speaks more to the opinion they have of the American people than to any so-called “greater good.” It is beneficial for the Republican Party to keep a majority of American citizens ignorant and uneducated. It is unfortunate for America, democracy, and freedom across the globe that this appears to be a toxin without a foreseeable antidote.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:34 am 46. Austin:

This is why the Second Amendment along with the First is a concrete guarantee of our Freedom.

A heavily armed population need not submit to the likes of Bill Ayers.

If you do not have a gun and a rifle, go buy one or two or three. Buy several thousand rounds of ammunition.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:37 am 47. Bookworm Room » Something to read:

[...] on the run this morning, bouncing from one thing to another, but strongly suggest that you read Bob Owens’ interview with informant Larry Grathwohl, who reflects on the Weathermen, their leaders then and now, and what he thinks about the [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:43 am 48. FLMom:

“Radicalism is what’s important. Fits right in with the Billy Ayers view of creating mindless soldiers to follow his commands…”

And we see the mindless soldiers at work at CBS, NBC, CNN…

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:52 am 49. fred:

Where to begin? I have known about Ayers for quite some time now, so none of this surprises me about the man. I never met him, but the information about him and his Weathermen that has been filtering out for some time gives one a picture of a classic sociopath. Valerie’s comments hit the nail on the head. An intelligent, mature person who has solid moral sensibilities can, with only a few clues, know a sociopath. And one of the best things to do when around one of them is to run away. You just don’t associate with people like this. And as the people and lawyers of Chicago excuse Billy Ayers of his crimes because they were supposedly for a good cause, THAT too is a chilling indictment of the entire culture of one of America’s largest cities: it is rotten and corrupt to the core. Only corruption and evil are attracted to corruption and evil.

I’m afraid that Americans are going to learn a hard, painful lesson during the next four years. I still do have enough optimism about humanity that leads me to believe that most are capable of learning lessons from their mistakes. But in this post-modernist, cultural Marxism milieu, even that optimism about my fellow human beings can slip away.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:01 am 50. Robert Hurley:

Bill in NY – You must be desperate to spin the fabrication that Obama is the cause of the market crash. As this stage, I guess McCain supporters will make up any thing. The problem is that you underestimate the intelligence of the Amercan voters.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:07 am 51. fred:

People like “Aaron Zeal” above my comment are an example of the kind of moral and intellectual corruption I elaborated about. What more can I say?

And I can tell by the memes embedded in Mr. Zeal’s argument that he is a Marxist.

“to keep a majority of American citizens ignorant and uneducated”

Classic class-warfare agitprop. Furthermore, it is the cultural Marxists (Gramscians)who have diluted the educational system, so that it turns out kids who are far less literate and numerate than children and teenagers a century ago. And the process of indoctrination only continues when they go off to college.

“Aaron Zeal,” as a former Marxist I know you people inside and out. And I am not alone, because there are a fair number of us fellow-travelers who left neo-Marxism and in the coming years we are going to be your worst nightmare.

Don’t think because you are going to win on November 4th that the battle is over. It has only begun.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:09 am 52. Robert Hurley:

The closer we get tot he electio, the crazier the right wing gets. This is all very entertaining

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:14 am 53. Jim Baker:

It is too late folks. We have let these leftists “educate” two generations of American kids. Even though their political branding would never be stuck on the real creative thinkers among these Americans, what to the less imaginative kids have for an alternative? We can’t even blame them for walking like sheep to the polling booth for Obama. They have never been taught any alternative to his kind of politics.
The first thing that has to be done is to abolish labor unions for government workers, who get paid by our tax dollars, not by businesses. There is no incentive for government to resist the demands of these unions. The teachers union has become a front organization for leftist radicals. The teachers will, of course, scream about it. But it will have to be done. The unions are the primary firewall against competitive school systems.
It is our fault for not exercising more control over our school systems. Now we are about to pay the terrible price for our complacency. People can’t educate their children outside of the government schools unless they double down their personal expenditures for education. Unless we can educate our kids in more competitive environments, we will be consigning more generations to the same fate. Since none of this can happen with an Obama presidency, I fear that another generation will be “educated” in the same pathetic way.
It is true that a totalitarian government can operate with almost any economic system, but it is also true that liberty can not be guaranteed to The People without a capitalist economy. Creativity is empowered by capitalism and advancement of civilization is derived from creativity. (substitute invention if you like).

McCain/Palin because they are not Obama.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:26 am 54. Jeff Weimer:

Ken Mueller:

I must have missed something during the 60s and 70s. Is there a time frame beyond which these crimes cannot be prosecuted? Or was he just given a pass by some other “useful idiot?”

When he finally came out of hiding in 1980 or so, he went to trial, but it was thrown out of court due to prosecutorial misconduct. He was then a free man who exclaimed “Guilty as hell, free as a bird!” He can’t be tried for any of it again.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:28 am 55. dan:

Obama voters and liberals generally, let me ask you something: what if you are *wrong* and Obama was a willing collaborator and friend of these people?

Just what if? You claim a more supple, realistic, empathetic intelligence. Fine. Obama has done very little in public life, and his associations are therefore of much deeper significance to people like me who have never actually met the man himself.

The fact that Obama’s and his supporters’ reaction to the Ayers or Wright connections is to distance him from them suggests – I’m in a generous mood – that their evil is self-evident.

Well, what if you found out that Obama’s relationship with Ayers and Wright, among others, was as the conservatives characterize it?

And then what if Obama were elected president?

Do you think this would be a nice outcome, or what? Just consider it. Because who knows who is right?

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:35 am 56. “An interview with Weathermen insider/FBI informant Larry Grathwohl”:

[...] Bob Owens, writing for Pajamas Media — who may or may not have provided him with press credentials, and [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:40 am 57. Andrea in NY:

Why is Obama’s work on their “education charity” never discussed? Most people assume it has to do with things like reducing class size or improving reading scores. It did no such thing.

Hopefully, President Obama will not be able to waste millions more on such useless efforts.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:53 am 58. hanoi paris hilton:

Hey, Fear Obama…

You think the boldface font and the superduper bullet points are powerful enough to capture the feeble attention of our reptilian brains?

Even better, maybe you can figure out how to get it up (your deathless prose!) in pulsating day-glo colors. Induce epileptic seizures amongst those of us so predilected, why not?

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:00 am 59. Jephnol:

The leftists visiting this site are unbelievable. They act as though Ayers was an invention of the right. Well, it’s the left that has embraced Ayers—a man who wanted to kill 25 million people in the name of the revolution and yet calls the cops for an escort to his car when confronted by a single reporter.

The connection between Ayers and Obama is in no way tenuous, as suggested by one commenter: From the launch of Obama’s campaign for the Illinois Senate at Ayers’ home, the Woods’ Fund, the Ananberg Challenge, multiple forums, the strong relationship to Rashid Khalidi they both share, Obama and Ayers are two peas in a pod—you might even say they are ideological soul mates since they both seem to hold Marx in such high regard. They belong together.

Obama didn’t know Ayers was an unrepentant terrorist, just like he didn’t know Wright was preaching those nasty things right under his nose for twenty years, right? It’s just a coincidence he and Ayers share a progressive ideology and they’ve been together all these years—as neighbors even, and they worked in the same building on the same floor for years—right? No. Obama isn’t an idiot. He’s lying through his teeth about having a close relationship with a cowardly man who still dreams of re-educating the masses and “eliminating” the 25 million or so people who don’t buy into his dream of revolution.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:01 am 60. More on Ayers’s genocide plans « Internet Scofflaw:

[...] on Ayers’s genocide plans Pajamas Media interviews Larry Grathwohl, who infiltrated the Weather Underground for the FBI. He was asked about [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:13 am 61. NoOne:

Ayers = American Stalin

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:20 am 62. More Quotes from Bill Ayers: “Innocent people have to die in a revolution.”:

[...] Larry Grathwohl gives an interview: Larry Grathwohl: When I objected to Billy Ayers that more innocent people would be killed in the restaurant, he replied, “Innocent people have to die in a revolution.” Billy also acknowledged during a criticism session in Buffalo that Bernadine placed the bomb at the Park Police Station which resulted in the death of Police Officer McDonnell. [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:23 am 63. mark:

Oh my God. They’ll take down the USA. Vote

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:30 am 64. Spider79:

Bob Hurley says “you underestimate the intelligence of the American voter”. Quite the opposite Bob. If Barry is elected the voters will be proven the dupes.

But then again, I feel I pay enough taxes already so I’m not as patriotic as you.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:36 am 65. Bill in NY:

Pity the Zombies on the left… they BELIEVE, they follow their leaders without critical thought or logic, and that’s what makes them so dangerous. Like Aynn Rand said, evil is not some powerful well organized strong enemy, it is merely an insidious willingness by people with good intentions and moral weakness not to fight for truth and stand for principles, it is weak, it will recoil and dissolve in the light of truth (note: little panzy Billy Ayers and his police protection, how ironic)… evil works gradually until eventually it steals the very soul of an individual, and then we see the monster that lives within all of us… that evil side of mankind that would murder millions without remorse. It’s a slippery slope for all you left-leaning sympathizers who are so guilt-ridden that you react by emotion to the whims of the dictators who play you like lambs being led to your own slaughter. It is NOT too late to wake up! A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by REALITY… JOIN the rest of us you bunch of nut-jobs on the left! Think of your kids and your grandchildren, you are giving away their freedom.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:41 am 66. Matt:

Hey, Dan:

You say, “Obama voters and liberals generally, let me ask you something: what if you are *wrong* and Obama was a willing collaborator and friend of these people?”

So: you throw out whatever random garbage you want to throw out, and then I’m supposed to be afraid because it might no be wrong?

I guess I should be worrying about the government causing 9/11. Those conspiracy theorists might not be wrong!

Logic doesn’t work that work. I discount the ridiculous charges of Obama’s radicalism, because they’re ridiculous on their face.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:43 am 67. cfbleachers:

Every good, decent and sane person with an IQ above an ACORN, will recoil against finding out precisely who (perhaps “what” is the better term), William Ayers is, what Bernardine Dohrn is, what Louis Farrakhan is, what Michael Klonsky is, what Carl Davidson is, what James M. Cone is…etc.

Giving out the details is simply confirmation of the level or degree of their depravity and perhaps adds to the reasonableness of the recoil. But, it misses the point. Actually, it misses two points.

It is no longer reasonably in doubt that the acceptance of these cretins is a basis to question the moral compass of their apologists. It is, on its face, a de facto reason. But we then must question the UIC and Northwestern brain trusts that did the same. Although circle campus is not Champaign, Northwestern is pretty much hallowed ground in academia.

That they would disgrace themselves with the likes of Dohrn is a condemnation of how far left academia is willing to be pulled and yet, it is the moderates who must hide for fear of retribution. If we do nothing more than pull up more evidence of treason, traitorous activities, plots for mass murder…and point at them and say, “How could you associate with THIS?”…it will fall on deaf ears. The apologists for mass murderers and traitors will haul out every dissembling tool they can to whitewash away the filth and grime, throw a blanket around it and hug it. We witness it here…because only HALF the comments suggest that it was so horrible, horrific and wrong…the other half are struggling to find ways to water it down. If we don’t more closely examine why a substantial portion of this country is not repulsed by these sub-human thoughts and actions…we are distracted by merely being satisfied with pointing at them. Understand this, you can point all you want…but, if they are inclined to think it’s no big deal…we have a bigger problem than Obama. Your countrymen have lost their moral compass as well. Academia has lost its moral compass. Virtually your entire information stream (save precious few stalwarts) have lost their moral compass.

You cannot shame a man with no conscience. You can’t. You cannot reason with a man who won’t listen. You cannot show proof of a cult to a man who is brainwashed by it. The cult looks normal to his eyes. Deprogramming takes two things…pulling the person out of the “safety” of the cult and then working on getting them to see what is real and what is not back in the world. As long as our information stream and their cohorts in Hollywood and academia keep reinforcing the message that “this behavior is ok”…then the plot to mass murder doesn’t touch their soul. You are trying to convince twisted minds to respond as you do, in normal revulsion to depraved acts. The apologia you get back, stuns you. It makes no sense in your world. How could anyone feel this way? Simple, their thinking and behavior has been modified and institutionally imbued by places like Northwestern…which have the stature of respectability, the facade of decency and the in loco parenti position of authority. These bastions of respectability give permanent positions to plotters of mass murderer and won’t allow David Horowitz a speaking engagement.

Secondly, the argument comes back to you…Senator Obama is not “tied” closely enough with these depraved actors…you are making too “thin” of a nexus between his belief system, his worldview…and theirs. It is “guilt by association” and a scheme, a plot, a nefarious Rovian smear to connect these dots.

Of course, for the kneejerk cultists, this is just one hammer in a toolbox of excuses, alibis and distractions from the issue at hand. But, this one resonates with those truly on the fence as well. “Yes, we agree with your instant recoil against the acts of THAT person…but where is the PROOF that Senator Obama embraces it all? He SOUNDS so calm, reasonable and collected, our IMAGE of him is not what you are trying to paint.”

Herein lies your problem. The toe deep voter…the guy who gets his information fed to him like a little baby bird and doesn’t dig in the dirt to find it…will vote for the image. Be taken in by the persona.

And the entrenched and corrupt media is doing everything it can to ensure that’s all Mr. Toe Deep gets. They are blatantly championing the IMAGE…the PERSONA…and steadfastly avoiding any…any…attempt to dig into any…any…question that might tarnish it.

So, you are left with the Herculean task of not only digging for facts that are intentionally hidden from view…but then making the nexus that it shows evidence of a particular worldview that Senator Obama holds. And understand this…you being who you are…will not carry the same weight. You are “automatically disqualified” from presenting evidence…because you are a member of the “right wing nut machine”. Every fact you present is, on its face…not credible.

You see? No matter what you say, what you produce, what you elicit, what you find…it should “not be believed”…because you sourced it. This is the “whipsaw effect” of having a corrupt media. They intentionally defraud the public and then call YOU not credible.

Is it crystallizing yet? When the entrenched media, one of only two major parties, academia and Hollywood began stalking revolution…you (apparently the estimate is 25 million of you) were seen as a removable obstruction, nothing more.

All the candidate has to do now…is simply dodge the inquiry, call out the dogs and sic them on you. If the underlying question by YOU is avoided, evaded, dodged and glossed over…there is NEVER going to be the appropriate nexus between the worldview of Jeremiah Wright or Rashid Khalidi or Bill Ayers or Michael Klonsky enough to convince anyone who is inclined to dismiss YOU…because you don’t carry the impramatur of the entrenched media, the ivy covered walls of academia, the celebrity cache’ of Hollywood or the party affiliation of Democrat.

Your problem isn’t the candidate…it’s the corrupt information stream that gave birth to him and nurses him now.

It’s a rigged game. So what you have left is hope and change.

You can hope that the nexus is not as strong as it appears to be, to radical extremism and socialist tendencies. Or you can hope that the candidate will change.

Good night and good luck.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:52 am 68. cllucas:

Montaigne’s Cat–contact me regarding Terry Robins, I need material on him.

All else, visit http://www.killingjanefonda.com for the flash intro.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:59 am 69. pjean:

I am continually amazed at how the Obama campaign leans on the ignorance of its supporters for its success. He plays them for stupid and so it is not astonishing when his followers read disturbing facts, evidence, personal accounts, view video of Obama, listen to audio of Obama, and in response merely say, “it’s a Republican smear” or ” Republicans are desperate”.

Many in this country look at your bliss in ignorance and wonder if you will ever wake up from your love affair with this demagogue.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:01 am 70. AnonymousPatriot:

#52. Robert Hurley:

Based on your comment, are we to assume that you view the Left-Wing as sane?

You can’t dismiss the fact that BHO has been associated with some very, very radical people.

Far Left-Winger Ayers and his “people” were plotting to take over the American government and kill 25 million of your fellow countrymen in the name of their revolution. Most people would call this fascism. Is this not crazy?

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:11 am 71. joecool:

Ayers,Obama-they’re narcissists. They crave power. The more they get, the more they want, the more fantastical their aspirations become.
Hitler’s quotes from above are right on the mark.
The entranced masses who “cry” when they hear Obama speak are puppets. Many of them don’t realize it.
Gee, how DID Hitler retain power? Bcs Germans were tired of the crap that went before, so they traded it for EVIL. They dressed it up into an appetizing package & fell for it hook, line & sinker.
Obama may not totally ruin this country, but he will certainly make it worse off.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:19 am 72. Bill in NY:

just had to say, quick reply to cfbleachers:

“One man with faith makes a majority”, whatever the future holds, we fear no evil.

So, little cowardly left-wing Hollywood-academia-union-collectivist-anti-individualist-anti-American thugs out there… bring it on.

We’re not afraid of you.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:30 am 73. dan:

Matt – Look. These assocations are well-documented. Just looking at them naively, you could reasonably infer that Obama was at least sympathetic to their views, and that they saw in him at least a useful idiot. So, taking the weak version of the theory arising from Obama’s associations, what do you think about them? Not about me, a conservative, who is evil; yes, I have heard this. About them, and Obama.

C’mon man this guy is going to be president – let’s have at least one good faith response to a sincere concern.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:32 am 74. BC:

To pjean: I am continually amazed at how you right wing nuts can’t understand that not everyone wants to be as vile and as ignorant as you guys. Ayers is someone who was and is still a college professor of some renown, as well as a community organizer of some repute, when Obama had his dealings with him, and those dealing still didn’t amount to a whole lot. If Ayers was that bad, he would have been locked up a long time ago.

And Bush has been responsible for far, FAR more death and destruction than all of the 60’s radical groups put together. If you want to criticize candidates for their past associations, it would therefore be more logical to slam McCain for his much more recent past associations with Bush, most notably on the day Katrina whacked New Orleans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRar6yKZE8g

Idiots….

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:33 am 75. Robert Hurley:

Spider 79 – Your response sounds very elitist. If the voters are dupes then you must want some sort of dictatorship of a core group that knows the truth. These are exactly the tactics used by the communists in Russia

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:39 am 76. Truth First:

Very soon Barack Obama will be your new President. This is a reality you cannot alter or escape from. It is fact. It is history. It is justice for the world.

Many of you have seen the light and have accepted the truth. And we thank you for your support and aid in electing Barack Obama.

To those who have rejected the truth you have no reason to fear Barack Obama. He is wise and just and he will follow the principals followed by his African forefathers. Barack Obama is the son of Kings and Queens who started human civilization thousands of years ago. Barack Obama remembers his heritage and his obligations to the Truth, Justice and the Future.

Barack Obama understands what is wrong and what needs to be done. Barack Obama has intelligence and vision that has lasted for over a millennium. Barack Obama was born with the appropriate ways of thinking, speaking, and acting and this will inspire you to be liberated for now there is no shackle which can keep you enslaved.

An African Proverb tell us: “Then command the servant, thusly: Make an Elder’s staff causing my son to stand in my place I will instruct him through the speech of the listeners and the counsels of the first of the ancients who listened to the divinities. In so doing troubles will be removed from the people.”

Barck Obama is here now to listen, to instruct and will lead you to your new life.

America will have a new start. A change to right itself. A change to correct its wrongs and address its sins. If you support change that will bring forth social and economic justice, you will stand with Barack Obama. Those who have been denied justice in America will get justice. Those will have been denied opportunity will be given opportunity. Those will falsely imprisoned will be freed. Those who are guilty will be punished. America’s salvation is at hand.

Those who have profited in America will play a role helping others. Justice requires equality and fairness and those who have the means will now be fair and will contribute to equality.

Stand with Barack Obama and you will be honored you for your work, sacrifice, dedication and devotion on behalf of all oppressed peoples.

Stand with Barack Obama and you will be honored and celebrated and remembered in song and praise and by your children.

http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:44 am 77. fred:

cfbleachers,

That was a truly brilliant post and exposition of the dilemma we find ourselves in. May I have your permission to reproduce what you’ve written and post it elsewhere (with due attribution)? You put into words, tied all together, exactly the strands of thought that have vexed my consciousness for many weeks. My encounters with people I know – people in my family, people who are friends and acquaintances – have been mostly with the “Mr. Toe Deep’s” of our culture.

It is frustrating to me. I have two masters’ degrees and am a professional investment analyst. Twenty five years ago, I used to be a neo-Marxist academic-in-training. I have a brain, and the people who know me understand this. And yet I cannot get them to openly receive and properly digest the information about this nexus of cultural Marxism in Obama’s life.

At this point, I am not optimistic about the country’s future anymore. I see how widespread and how deep this moral and intellectual compromise and acquiescence is.

Where do we go from here?

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:47 am 78. Donna V.:

AnonymousPatriot:

#52. Robert Hurley:

Based on your comment, are we to assume that you view the Left-Wing as sane?

You can’t dismiss the fact that BHO has been associated with some very, very radical people.

Robert, like most liberals, sees no enemies on the Left.
Hey, what’s a few bombs and a few dead people? No big deal, it all happened so long ago – it’s ancient history. Besides, it was all for a good cause. And hey, let’s face it, the country would be better off if 25 million bitter rednecks got waxed.

Ayers was just a goofy misguided kid. His heart was in the right place. Sure, he might have made a few boo-boos (or should I say boom-booms?) but at least he didn’t go to the University of Idaho.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:50 am 79. Bob's Kid:

You need a Facebook button. I am going to annoy my many lefty “friends” by posting this article to Facebook, but it’d be easier if you had a button.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:55 am 80. Eric Rommel:

Oh cripes. You lot are going to be so disappointed when you find yourselves in a year not in some liberal re-education camp, but instead paying slightly lower taxes and getting decent health care at a reasonable premium. I’ve never seen a group of adults so addicted to drama and prone to hysteria. No wonder it was so easy for Bush/Cheney to scare you into supporting their war for profit schemes.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:57 am 81. AnonymousPatriot:

#74 BC:

Another post by a Kool-Aid drinking useful idiot.

Yeah, man, it was Bush that directed Katrina toward New Orleans…

It’s convenient that Democrats like Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco get a pass for their complicity in the mismanagement of the crisis.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:02 am 82. cfbleachers:

my first sentence in the comment at #67 above should read

“….will recoil UPON finding out about…”

Bill at #72, one man with faith makes a majority, I agree. But a system that has lost its conscience, constructs its own tyranny. Treason is emboldened, it no longer wears a mask or hides in the shadows.

A theology dripping in venom is held out in the open.

If I awoke one day to find my closest asssociates, my lifelong inner circle was filled with the fangs of Ayers and Dohrn, they bulging eyes a flecks of spittle from Wright, Pfleger and Farrakhan, the mentorings of Frank Marshall Davis, the suicide bombing inspirations of Rashid Khalidi…I would seriously take a moment to review the underpinnings of my life choices.

This isn’t the reflections of a Presidential campaign, this is the involuntary shudderings of 60’s acid flashback.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:03 am 83. kevin c:

bill ayers is the son OF THOMAS AYERS,AT THE TIME OF THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND DADDY AYERS WAS THE CEO OF CONSOLIDATED EDISON OF ILLINIOS. SAME WITH SUSAN WILKERSON,THE BABE OF THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND. HER FATHER,BILL WILKERSON,WAS THE CEO OF WR GRACE. IT WAS BILL WILKERSONS TOWN HOUSE THAT WAS BLOWN UP IN 1970 WHEN THEY WERE USING IT AS A BOMB FACTORY. BY THE WAY,WILKERSONS NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR WAS THE ACTOR DUSTIN HOFFMAN,WHOSE TOWNHOUSE WAS ABOUT 70% DESTROYED. YET HOFFMAN REMAINS A COMMIE PINKO. SHOWS YOU ABOUT COMMIES. THERE IDEOLOGY TRUMPS ALL.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:10 am 84. momof3:

“where do we go from here?”

Hopefully, to the polls to vote Mccain. If Obama wins, the US will end up a mess that will take a generation or more to fix. And will hopefully learn a lesson. What is that saying about people who don’t study history…..?

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:13 am 85. kevin c:

NOW YOU WANNA KNOW WHY THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND COMMIES NOT ONLY GOT OFF,BUT GOT JOBS IN CUSHY ACADEMIA WITH THERE LIKE MINDED COMMIES? LOOK AT THE OBAMAS-LOTS OF CONNECTIONS TO UIC(UNIV ILLINIOS-CHICAGO). FUNNY THAT AYERS HAS BEEN THERE FOR 20 YEARS. FUNNY THAT AYERS DADDY WAS A BIG CONTIRBUTOR THERE. AYERS RICH DADDY GOT HIM OFF,THEN GOT HIM THE UIC GIG. WILLIAM AYERS GOT FIRST MICHELLE ROBINSON OBAMA HER JOB,THEN HER COMMIE SUCKASS HUBBY. AYERS ALSO DIRECTED OBAMA TO FARRAKHAN,WHO THEN DIRECTED OBAMA TO JEREMIAH THE RACIST SCUM. THERE ARE TOO MANY COINCIDENCES TO BELEIVE IT ANY OTHER WAY. EVERY OBAMA ADVANCE ITES INTO UIC. AYERS IS THE CONNECTION TO UIC.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:21 am 86. Socratease:

People like Ayers believe that human life and humanity are unimportant compared to political ‘progress’. The 20th century is littered with the bodies of victims to this working theory. When you look at clarifying events like the Senator Wellstone memorial service, when the commonality of human mortality was given a back seat to partisan point-scoring, it’s clear to me that today’s liberal Democrat ideology isn’t far removed from that of the creators of holocausts.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:27 am 87. gun-totin-wacko:

I’m with those who maintain that this slimeball will win because of the indoctrinated young folks. I’ve talked with a few, and they just don’t care. Tell them about the lies and they shrug. Tell them about the voter fraud, and they deny it. One supports the Messiah because he’ll get us out of Iraq. Why is that an issue? He has friends there. Of course, his friends are there because they volunteered to join the military in wartime. Doesn’t matter.

I’m not usually paranoid, but I’ve seen a couple articles lately by psychologists. They point out that The Messiah uses mass hypnosis tactics in his speeches- NLP, certain hypnotic phrases, etc. I guess there has to be a backup strategy if the voter fraud doesn’t work.

I do have a young friend who knows better. She was forced to listen to him speak a few days ago (he spoke almost outside her window, well within earshot). He promised to bring back the middle class, by cutting taxes on 95% of the populace. And of course the acolytes just ate it up.

The numbers obviously don’t work. But Mr Hopey-Change will alter the laws of economics along with those of nature. Just wait and see.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:28 am 88. Noonan for Obama’s Press Sec’y? | The Anchoress:

[...] Our interesting times are getting more interesting. [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:29 am 89. cfbleachers:

Fred, you may post any comment of mine anywhere you would like. If I write it, it’s in the public marketplace, but thank you for asking and thank you for the kind words.

I only ask that you reprint it with the correction I made in #82 to the first sentence.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:30 am 90. Laura:

I am a Canadian who loves the United States. I have been watching this election with bated breath. So the democrats in your country want Socialism? Let me describe it to you, Canadian-style:

Socialism means having to wait months for surgery, that is if you don’t die in the emergency room first.

Socialism means the government controls the airlines, railways, radio, newspapers and television, sale of alcohol, right to own a gun, right to free speech.

Socialism means the government controls your voting rights. Canadians NEVER get the chance to vote on anything. (case in point, official bilingualism and multiculturalist agendas shoved down our throats, paid for by the tax-payer)

Socialism means the government controls almost every aspect of your life. You start to behave like a child because you are treated like one. “Big Brother” knows what’s best for you. He will take care of you.
You will lose a lot of your personal freedoms. Freedoms that are the very core of the American experience.

My thoughts and prayers are with you all. My only comfort is the belief that if McCain loses, G-d has a plan for you and that plan will ultimately right itself in the years to come.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:30 am 91. jum1801:

The story of Bill Ayers and the Weathermen confirms that the willingness to endure trumps force. With Mao’s Long March as their lodestar, Ayers and Dohrn knew all they had to do was wait long enough, while plugging away with their efforts to shape future generations.

And so this tiny band of hyper-radical Marxist/Leninist/Maoists, who were and are committed to the complete overthrow of American-style representative government in favor of a Russian Stalinist system, who stood ready to execute as many as 25 million Americans whom they might judge as too stubborn to submit to their brand of American Communism, are on the verge of winning the Presidency of the United States. With a candidate picked out some 20 years ago by the Weathermen’s central figure, Bill Ayers, who found Barry Obama had the right beliefs, values and motivations to put into practice everything Ayers had fought for. And the man soon to be President was groomed by Ayers, who first got him elected to Chicago City Council, and then made him an Illinois state senator, until finally he catapulted Barack Obama to the US Senate. Until now, with the active and knowing assistance of the mainstream media, which has acted as a cheer squad and silenced or stymied all criticism by bluffed away questions about his background and threatening with charges of racism anyone who demanded answers about the candidate’s associations and values.

And all the Weathermen had to do to achieve putting a hand-groomed, committed radical into the highest office of the land was to work and wait. God help us all.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:31 am 92. Ay Uaxe:

Hold your noses and vote vote vote McCain/Palin!

Ayers is just a soft, syphilitic boil on the ass of communism–the only reason he hasn’t been popped by his own scum-bag organism, is that’s where the communist brain resides. Like ObaMarx, there are no callouses from real work on their hands. The USA won’t be lost in only 4 years, but it is a very sad commentary that we have such a remarkably ignorant and wrong-headed electorate that an obviously blank-slate shill for racists and communists might manage to be elected POTUS at all.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:34 am 93. Benson:

If this campaign had another six weeks to run, McCain might win it. That assumes that the undecided or waverering voters would do their homework diligently. Huge assumption, for all the facts amount to a tangled tale, not easy to study and evaluate.

Did Ayers influence Obama, or was their relationship an indication that they were kindred spirits? Are Obama’s references to economic justice and spreading and/or redistributing the wealth just the empty jargon of the trendy leftist, or do they reveal his Neo-Marxist faith? Does it matter that he says higher taxes on the rich are necessary out of “fairness,” though lower revenues will result? That seems punitive rather than rational, doesn’t it? What about ACORN — isn’t Joe lying when he says the Democrats did not pay that outfit for registering voters?

Then conspiracy theorists lie in wait: Obama is a Muslim Manchurian candidate! He’s more Arab than African! His birth certificate is a proven fake!

Compared to Palin’s history and qualifications — which are a wide open book — Obama is a puzzle hiding in a maze. His lawyerly language is slippery and glib. We may think he has answered the question with a solid Yes or No, but a careful review of his words often shows he has not. Look out….

Finally the inquirer has to cope with the distractions, smears, and deranged mockery of leftists who are perfectly willing to deny the obvious (the left’s crushing dominance of the media, for example).

I think I have Obama pegged, but millions would say I’m crazy. So…is everything just free-floating opinion? Where is solid fact to be found? I can’t blame anybody for asking those questions out of sheer exasperation. Sometimes, in spite of our best efforts, common sense is ground down by sophistry and deceit.

We can be fooled, especially when we desperately want to invest faith in a man. That makes us vulnerable. I don’t think we are holding an election — I think we are creating a divinity. Shades of imperial Rome.

It’s folly. For which we have the news media to thank, IMHO; those manipulative rascals have abused their occupational privileges in order to promote a personality cult.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:44 am 94. Aaron Zeal:

cultural marxism!?!? wow, you people are paranoid. stick your thumbs in your mouths and play in your conspiracy sandboxes so the rest of us (and the world) can get on with the twenty-first century.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:52 am 95. Montaigne's Cat:

#68 cllucas

I only met Robbins & Ayers that one time. Sorry I cannot contact you through your website because my computer isn’t set up properly to use some contact forms.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:56 am 96. Matt:

Dan, and others:

You do realize how EASY it is for a liberal to point to sleazy, questionable “associations” that both Palin and McCain have had, don’t you? It’s a simple game to play, and anyone can play it.

But while the GOP/McCain/PajamasMedia just keeps hammering away at it, America is turning away in disgust. You’d think by now McCain/Palin would have gotten the message and offered an idea or two to the electorate. But of course, it CAN’T do that, because all it’s got is tired old tropes about “socialism,” which, in the wake of the bailout, sound not only foolish, but hypocritical as well. It plays very well, however, among the sector of the populace that DOES NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD.

There are extremists on the Left and extremists on the Right. I have no doubt that John McCain wants to do what he thinks is right for the country, despite the obvious failures of the policies he endorses. I don’t call him an extremist. But I won’t be voting against him because of the boogeyman “associations” he’s had.

What’s sad is when those of you on the Right refuse to be as clear-headed and allow yourselves to go conspiracy theory wacko in your anger. Enough, already.

Barack Obama is going to be president. He’s not going to turn us all into commies. Settle down. Someone you don’t agree with ideologically is going to run things for a while. Take a Percocet. Your lives will go on.

And you’ll probably get tax breaks to boot.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:59 am 97. Paul M Hupf:

Ayers will manipulate Barack Obama who already is a Marxist. If you accept Marxism, you acknowledge the superiority of the state, with no restraints other than what those in office deem advantageous to themselves and to their agenda. This is but one step removed from “concentration camps” and slogans such as “Arbeit Macht Frei” Only under the Ayers agenda these centers would be called “Education Centers” so that its inmates can be properly indoctrinated. If they fail or refuse???

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:01 pm 98. Aaron Zeal:

plainspeak. well said, Matt

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:05 pm 99. Donna V.:

Laura: thank you. It’s ironic that Canada just reelected a Conservative, the Labour Party is on its way out in the UK and France, and Italy and Germany will have more conservative heads of state if we will if Obama gets in. We do seem to be slow on the uptake – voting left just as countries who have been there and done that are moving away from socialism. Perhaps that is why America-haters the world over prefer Obama – they know damn well he’ll weaken both our defense and our economy and they welcome that. Unfortunately for us, so do many Americans.

Eric Rommel writes:

I’ve never seen a group of adults so addicted to drama and prone to hysteria.

I guess you don’t read Daily Kos or HuffPo then. They’ve been awaiting Dubya’s stormtroopers to come drag them away to reeducation camps for 8 years now.

The difference is that Leftist fantasies never had the slightest grounding in reality. I agree that some on the right may be painting overly dark scenarios (actually, the most probable is that we are looking at Jimmy Carter’s second term. That’s quite scary enough for me, since I remember Jimmy Carter’s first term all too well). However, Obama’s past and present associates do not inspire confidence. If Obama had thought Ayers would do him no harm, he never would have lied about the nutty professor just being some guy in the neighborhood.

Do you honestly believe that you will be paying slightly lower taxes during an Obama adminstration with a Democratic Congress? Really? In that case, let me forward you an email I got this morning from a lady in Nigeria. She will make you very rich if you send her $5,000.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:05 pm 100. Truth First:

America does need a revolution and Barack Obama is the man to lead it. The people do not want war. They want peace. The people want economic justice. These things will never happen under any Reublican from the white power structure which created slavery, oppression and injustices on a massive scale. This is a turning point in history and it cannot be denied.

http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:11 pm 101. Ratatosk:

When an attack doesn’t work, the smart thing to do is drop it. No one, except the GOP base is buying that Obama is a Commie, Terrorist, buddies with Terrorists, Not a US citizen, a secret Muslim or anything of the sort. He’s a liberal. Not even an extreme liberal, just another liberal with good oratory skills. These sorts of things are just wasting the remaining days of the run with trivial nonsense that won’t sway anyone.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:13 pm 102. Grym:

Grathwhol’s description of Ayers reminds me of another “Radical” who would convince others to do his dirty work in a attempts to start a “Revolution”. To bad Charles Manson didn’t get off on a technicality. He could be a college professor too.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:13 pm 103. Donna V.:

stick your thumbs in your mouths and play in your conspiracy sandboxes so the rest of us (and the world) can get on with the twenty-first century.

I repeat again, the world (or at least the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Canada) is beginning to turn away from socialism, because they realize it is unsustainable. The failing birthrates of the Western can not support it and it leads to permanently high unemployment and sluggish economic growth (Exhibit A – France).

It’s the “progressives” who want us to adapt an outmoded ideology which failed repeatedly throughout the 20th century. You’re the ones clinging to the tie-dye, bell-bottoms, and water bongs, man.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:13 pm 104. fred:

The reason why kids like “Aaron Zeal” are so flip and insolent with their remarks is due to the fact that they do not know the provenance of the ideas and mental templates that comprise their perceptual hermeneutics. They’ve been assiduously put their by very cunning people, who know how to package it all under the guise of “progressivism.”

I remember very distinctly, back in 1981, when I was an undergraduate economics and philosophy major at the University of New Hampshire being instructed by the Israeli Communist leader of our CISPES group (Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador), himself a graduate exchange student with ties to Cuba through his networks, that I must never, ever use the nomenclature “socialist” or “Marxist” to describe myself and my philosophical leanings. I was “counseled” to never have intellectual discussions with people new to the group or even outsiders about my intellectual leanings. But I did it anyway and pissed him off and others about it. I hate deception, which was, I think, one of the qualities that eventually played a role in my intellectual disaffection with Marxism around 1987.

Be that as it may, I know how these kids today are influenced by the network of cultural Marxism. One who mocks my use of that term truly does not understand what it means and how it applies to the process of two whole generations of kids being prepared for this moment. That flip remark meant to mock my use of the terminology admits of either conscious deflection or of true ignorance of the mental universe (such as it is, or what passes for such)of the one who utters it.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:17 pm 105. Grym:

Oh I missd this one:

“Reublican from the white power structure which created slavery, oppression and injustices on a massive scale.” – Moron

Truth First you need to actually study history. I suggest you take a look at this link.
http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-GOP&tp_preview=true

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:19 pm 106. Matt:

Aaron Zeal: I could never accept a compliment from a Marxist!

Donna V: I remember the Carter years, too. Oh, the horror! Thank God, Ronald Reagan came along and began the Big Business first, free market cure-all mindset that led us to where we are today.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:22 pm 107. fred:

Matt, et al,

President Obama will put his nation and others into the hazard because he trusts that the Mullahs and Ahmadinejad can be taken at their word. A fatal mistake, and one which will possibly cost tens of millions of lives in Israel and Iran.

His weakness will embolden terrorists all over the world. His hasty removal of forces from Mesopotamia will usher in Iranian influence in Baghdad, solidifying an entire corridor stretching from Qom to Damascus.

Don’t believe this? Then you have not been paying attention to Obama’s statements and political advisers for quite a while.

And I take it you approve of the cessation of the ballistic missile defense program, something that Sen. Joe Biden has opposed since the 1980’s.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:24 pm 108. fred:

Matt, the fact is that most of us who remember the Carter years remember them as a very tough period for us. I don’t know about you, but for me it was not easy finding work after I got out of the Army and during my college years that started with Carter’s presidency. High unemployment. High inflation. High interest rates. Low business investment. It was not a good time to be young and starting out then. If you think it was a good time, then you are out of touch with how many of us had to slog through it. You may want to repeat the Seventies, but I don’t.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:38 pm 109. Matt:

Fred:

I disagree. Why do you suppose Al Qaeda prefers people like George W. Bush and John McCain? It’s because they hand terrorists, on a plate, mind you, exactly what they want.

“We want to bog America down in a long unwinnable war that will cost them lives and drain their treasure.”

Well, who are we to refuse that?

>Don’t believe this? Then you have not been paying attention to Obama’s statements and political advisers for quite a while.

I’m not the one interpreting the results of Obama’s policies. You are doing that, and I am disagreeing with you.

Yes, we will have to continually push back against the Jihadists, but we will have to be smart about it, and we will have to have support when we go on the aggressive.

OR, we can do it Bush and McCain’s way: that is, exactly the way the terrorists prefer it.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:41 pm 110. Donna V.:

Matt: how old were you during the Carter years? Clearly not old enough to be in the housing or job market. Yes, those were horrifying years for most adults. If you were still hanging out in the park smoking reefer with your high school buddies, then I suppose Carter was just the dude with the sweater and the aw-shucks accent you saw on TV once in a while.

The Reagan years began an era of prosperity that started coming to a close 2 years ago. Gee, I don’t know, maybe Americans just have a secret longing to go back to the carefree, happy days of double-digit inflation, stagflation, high unemployment and a productivity growth rate that averaged 1 percent. Ah, that good old malaise! We miss it so! Two scoops, please, Barry!

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:49 pm 111. view from afar:

#80 Eric rommel…uh no I live in the socialist paradise that you pretend to bring to the American society…the taxes aren’t taxes that are evident child these taxes are everywhere and very difficult to track down. Everything is taxed here in France, Obama’s example. It is not a good system unless you are making American type salaries, and believe me there aren’t very many of those salaries around. The health care is bankrupt here and my English friends say it’s even worse in England, as for lower taxes, it might be lower income taxes but higher other taxes…take for example an article that a retired French farmer wrote about the taxes for state run garbage removal, his annual eletric bill is half of what his new taxes are for his garbage! My brother in law pays 1.5 months of his salary on his combined house tax and his land tax (which aren’t the same, one tax is for the house, building and one tax for the land it is sitting on, he doesn’t pay much however in income tax)…
As for Robert Hurley, he’s probably Ayers himself, just ignore him people he just likes to wind people up…but obvious ignores any reason… and CFBleachers…kudos!

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:50 pm 112. Cristina:

Bogdan:

Likewise. I’m heartbroken.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:53 pm 113. susan:

Robert Hurley, if you find entertaining the buddy of the man of your dreams thinking about eliminating 25 million people you are not distant from the “gutter scum of the lowest order” that is ayers.

And you pretended not to be deranged as the rest of the left when you said in another thread “it’s wrong to hate bush”. Liar, Liar. Read Antonio Gramsci’s book about how to brainwash from cradle to the grave to the path of marxism, you idiot.

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:57 pm 114. Aaron Zeal:

I could never accept a compliment from a Marxist!

I’m sorry for you, Matt. I would accept a compliment or an apology from anyone. I believe in and practice ALL the Commandments, not just the convenient ones. But like fred says, I am just a kid . . . I guess I haven’t yet had idealogy and belief in my fellow man beaten from me.

And fred, I know you believe this with all your heart, and for that I respect your conviction, no matter how misguided, but there is NO conspiratorial network of cultural Marxism propagated by the media, whether mainstream or hollywood. There are biases in hollywood, to be sure, and they have big mouths, without saying, but it’s not a conspiracy, and I for one am not a Marxist. If it somehow makes you feel better to call me a Marxist, so be it. I have a habit of turning my cheek, anyway.

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:10 pm 115. Sadly, No! » Confederate Yankee: We Have The Tape:

[...] to do so. Claims that we are not of possession of this genuine tape are futile and in error.) Eyewitness to the Ayers Revolution An interview with Weathermen insider/FBI informant Larry Grathwohl on whether to believe Obama when [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:19 pm 116. the dude:

Bart,

Were already and have been on a bumpy ride for years….

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:26 pm 117. AdrianS:

What do we know about Barack Hussein Obama?

Obamalies or Lies Obama Tells
http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=73

The videos that will cause Barack Obama to lose the election.
http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=68

2008. The Year The ONE … Lost.

Vote for and elect John McCain — Honesty, Integrity and a true Patriot.

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:32 pm 118. Bigjohn:

LOL, It’s great to see the tin foil hat brigade frothing at the mouth again…

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:33 pm 119. Robert Hurley:

I was having lunch with two physicans from Ediburgh last week and they thought that Obama would be considered a man of the center in most European countries. Susan – I know you tend to interpret our system as being the same as yours in Europe, but it is hard to make that case. I don’t know how you can claim to be any sort of an expert since you do not live here. The majority of American do not buy any close connection between Ayers of the Weatherman days and Obama; as do most of the mainstream analysits. That, of course, exludes many of the wingnuts here.

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:47 pm 120. dan:

Matt – i wrote a longer response, but i realized: i don’t think you’ve actually looked at the Ayers/Obama timeline. these are not “associates”: these are mentors, sponsors, pastors, advisors. look again. if ayers’ and wright’s self-evident sociopathy and their usual thought-refuge, Communism, don’t disturb you, i presume it is beyond my power to convince you otherwise. i’d only add that it is precisely “the masses” who understand what “socialism” means. it’s always been the intellectuals who don’t get that when they debate all those nuances about equality and revolution, they are in fact debating about Nothing.

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:49 pm 121. Donna V.:

Yeah, Matt, I’m sure the al Queda operatives in Iraq were real fans of Bush’s. They longed for a surge, they prayed we would stay and kick the snot of them rather than go home and leave them alone.

Heck, even old gaffe-o-rama Joe Biden said Obama will be tested within 6 months of taking office. The Soviets put missles in Cuba because after meeting JFK, Khrushchev thought the young, charismatic president (also quite a rock star in his day)was a piece of fluff. Hence the Cuban Missle Crisis. Yes, I’m really looking forward to the challenges Barry will have to man up to instead of voting “present.” I’m betting McCain might get that 3 a.m. call after all.

I remember the speed with which Iran released the American hostages after Reagan was elected. Was it because they preferred Reagan, or might it have been that Reagan inspired fear in our enemies and Mr. Peanut did not? Gee, that’s a real head scratcher, Matt.

Oct 28, 2008 - 1:52 pm 122. dan:

i also think there are a great many people who – as fred pointed out – don’t understand the provenance of their ideas. if you subscribe to the propositions and sentiments of a particular belief system or worldview, it is irrelevant whether you actually call it by its name. in fact, when the name itself generates counterproductive hostility, it is much more shrewd to simply call it something else, or never name it. if you say “social justice” or “economic justice” – who is not for justice? who is not for “progress”? but progress towards what? “change” towards what?

isn’t it odd there is no “name” there?

but ah – “we’re post-partisan,” like barack… because we hate Bush!

Oct 28, 2008 - 2:12 pm 123. Eric Rommel:

111. view from afar, I’m interested to know, is there a group in France that advocates a switch to private or employer supplied healthcare insurance like we currently have in the United States? Would you say this idea enjoys broad popular support? Does President Sarkozy support it? Not arguing here, I’m genuinely interested. I would be happy to read anything else you want to tell me about healthcare over there. Thanks.

My understanding of Obama’s plan is that it falls far short of France’s or the UK’s model of nationalized healthcare. Whether it is preferable is something I hope to figure out.

Oct 28, 2008 - 2:13 pm 124. Fred:

Anyone who thinks Obama is a “man of the center” (here or in Europe, it does not matter – and Europeans are way more ill-informed about Obama’s mentors and allies) is not paying attention or is imposing his own template upon reality. Of course the Europeans are going to want to pull America more towards the Euro-socialist model of, say, France. And American left of center intellectuals have long believed we should be more like Europe, except that a hideously inconvenient document seems to get in the way of that. No matter. Just appoint judges who consider that document an historical artifact and the matter is resolved.

Oct 28, 2008 - 2:28 pm 125. KimnCali:

This is all so sad….what have we become….

Oct 28, 2008 - 2:58 pm 126. Toyboat:

What you guys don’t want to look at is Annenberg, the Reagan-appointed ambassador set up this foundation, and there was a whole board of directors, including Republicans, who served with Ayers on that board. It’s not like Ayers and Obama were just sitting there alone chatting it up. If you were appointed to a board like that, would you go around the room and ask about the distant past lives of all the other members? No, you wouldn’t. This stuff doesn’t stick to Obama because he doesn’t care about it, what Ayers did in the past with the Weathermen doesn’t mean shit to him, or to you or me. It’s just being pumped up now to throw mud on Obama. All I can assume is that you are being willfully ignorant about the situation, there is no way a group of adults can be this stupid.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:01 pm 127. TLC:

Vote McCain….there is no other option!!

Socialism is the phantastic younger brother of despotism, which it wants to inherit. Socialism wants to have the fullness of state force which before only existed in despotism. … However, it goes further than anything in the past because it aims at the formal destruction of the individual … who … can be used to improve communities by an expedient organ of government.

Friedrich Nitzsche

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:07 pm 128. paulr:

I always asked myself “why is Ayers still alive?”

I mean, revolution is a messy business, and you either get to the top of the greasy pole, like Castro or Mao, or you are one of the thousands who die trying – usually at the hand of other Marxists, sometimes by the police or Govt one is attacking.

Grathwol answered the question – Ayers is a pussy and not a risk taker. A real weasel.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:12 pm 129. susan:

Aaron Zeal, if you appreciate the compliments of charles manson or jeffrey dahmer, or some other serial killer, it’s probably because nobody with a sane mind would ever make a compliment to you, therefore you are so desperate that you would accept anything.

It must suck to be you.

And robert, I thought you were going to write “I was having lunch with two physicans from Ediburgh last week and they thought that the soon to be discovered center of the universe could have obama in the middle.”

If it’s people that hang out with you, I wouldn’t bet on their intelligence.

For your information (since your buddies from edimburgh seems to be clueless about it) pretty much EVERY COUNTRY in EU has voted right-wing recently, except the UK who is still trapped with leftist moonbats. All the respectable news commentators are saying that if obamba is president, at the next G8 or similar summit he will be the most leftist president USA has ever had and pretty much the only leftist together with the retarded gordon brown.

Man of the center my a$$!

The fairy tale that every american president is right to our left even when it’s a democrat lasted until Bill Clinton. Every retard (except your friends from scotland) knows that obama is much more left to Clinton.

Nowadays the only parties who are pushing the politically correct agenda of the blacks/immigrants plague and how it’s colonialism fault and we have to live in a multicultural society are EXCLUSIVELY COMMUNIST PARTIES. Obamba fits perfectly there.

The only difference is that in EU socialism doesn’t have to be implemented, because IT’S HERE ALREADY, therefore someone wanting to implement even mild socialism is TO THE LEFT OF EU LEFTIST PARTIES.

So, as you can see, the person who is clueless about what europe think is YOU and your commie friends from scotland.

Drop your know-it-all snob pose.

Unlike people like yourself which are clueless about political terrorism (the only real effective example has been Tim McVeigh) Europe had to live with polical terrorism for many decades.

This is why your sorry pathetic self is not worried about Ayers. You are not mentally equipped to understand politics and the problems of the world because you’ve been pampered in rich, secure, wealthy america.

Or simply (and it’s a 50-50 with the previous explanation) you are an enabler of terrorists yourself.

I hope that you do not have children, I wonder what kind of distorted morals you can teach them.

And if McCain was discovered to have the same ties to any sort of other terrorists you’d be up in arms calling for his HEAD!

Obammers, hypocrity is your name.

PS: so much for “the world loves obamba”. Sarkozy called him an “empty vessel”.

Apparently we understand better than you what a fraud he is.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:16 pm 130. M-N:

I can access the Dick Morris site {dickmorris.com}, but can not access his full article which starts with ‘McCain Gains in All Three Tracking Polls.’ What I can access, is copied below.

Can anyone techy find out if this is possibly being blocked by over-use or whatever can be done, to keep other people from accessing a Net site?

Please…….

M-N

———–
MCCAIN GAINS IN ALL THREE TRACKING POLLS
By Dick Morris And Eileen McGann
10.28.2008

Zogby, Rasmussen and Gallup all report McCain closing to 5 points back. Zogby had him 12 back, Rasmussen 8 and Gallup 6 in their previous polling. McCain’s use of the Joe the Plumber and the tax issue in his ads is working!

Unilaterally, John McCain agreed to disarm himself by refusing to use perhaps his most potent weapon in exposing Barack Obama: the Democrats’ relationship with Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The McCain campaign and, at its direction, the Republican Party, have banned use of footage of Rev. Wright from their campaign commercials. Perhaps for fear of being accused of racism, they are not bringing up the single most compromising association in Obama’s past – his close liaison with Rev. Wright.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:32 pm 131. Lawnguylander:

Grathwohl served as a courier, running messages between the group’s leadership (called the “Weather Bureau”) and individual cells that were to carry out attacks.

Grathwohl was also an informant for the FBI.

So according to Grathwohl, he was an informant for the FBI while in contact with the leadership of the Weather Underground and its sleeper cells yet the FBI never moved on the leadership? Either Grathwohl is lying or the FBI had knowledge of the whereabouts of the leadership and the sleeper cells and let them remain free to order and carry out bombings respectively. With their informant’s help apparently. Is Grathwohl lying or did the FBI really allow these bombings to happen despite having some ability to prevent them? Why didn’t Bob Owens ask these questions?

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:45 pm 132. Jeff K:

The misinformation of the article and more importantly the “opinions” of these Rightwing lemmings is probably the most telling. Everyone of the posts parrot what Rush, Hannity, or some other rightwing hate radio host says. A bunch of brainwashed robots mindlessly droning on and repeating what they hear on “AM radio” ad nauseam without once every stopping to find out if what they are hearing is true. I’ve asked the question often and never received a straight answer. Ayers may have committed crimes 40 years ago? When does the statue of limitations expire? When can you accept that a man has “reformed” and become a valued member of society? A highly touted educator and community organizer? A tenured and respected professor? To some minds, he will be Bill Ayers the terrorist forever.

My question to you is this. There are CONVICTED criminals in the Bush White House. Where is the outrage about them? Seems like a double standard to me. I guess the “decider” is the “R” behind their name.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:49 pm 133. EricB:

I hope good, honest Americans aren’t throwing in the towel. Even if Obama is elected with a super-majority, all is not lost. The most critical thing going forward is for a credible ,capable opposition to arise out of the republican party or elsewhere. The Obama congregants are likely to overreach and anger a lot of those who are soft in their support of him today. Conservatives will be in prime position to reclaim the center. The trick is getting the right candidates with the right ideas.

Oct 28, 2008 - 3:58 pm 134. Jeff K:

EricB
Are you suggesting that Obama supporters are not “good honest Americans?”

Geez, talk about drinking the Rightwing koolaid.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:04 pm 135. Jere Olson:

And now we have a follower of Ayers that may be running our great country. Is this what we want? Noooooooo.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:07 pm 136. AnonymousPatriot:

#132 Jeff K:

Who, in the current White House administration, is a convicted criminal?

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:16 pm 137. » The Ayers Revolution Through An FBI Informant’s Eyes:

[...] can read the whole thing here, but the concluding paragraph quoting Grathwohl pretty much sums up why the Ayers/Obama connection [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:23 pm 138. Jeff K:

Patriot.

Eliot Abrams, John Negroponte, to name a few. Both Iran-Contra “veterans”

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:30 pm 139. Fred:

When I was a Marxist academic/seminarian in training twenty five years ago a very popular book used by Marxist educators was Paulo Friere’s “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” It describes an education pedagogy for teaching illiterate, poor people in Brazil how to read, but allowing “their language” to also “name” was the structures of power do to them. It is essentially a way to integrate ideology into learning how to read. This is the sort of program that Billy Ayers is disseminating and nurturing. “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” is primarily about “raising consciousness” among the poor, so that they will be politically empowered.

When some of my comments about Obama and Ayers are mocked, when I freely use the word “Marxist” to describe the language used to support them, I am not pulling this out of my rectal regions. I understand the code words and phrases that allude to the ideology of these characters. This is a world of discourse which today’s kids are not aware of, because seemingly innocuous labels have been applied to describe the ideas they are encouraged to support. I am demanding honesty from the very people who are aiding and abetting this project, because the media and the journalism profession are clueless about the origins of these things, or they do know it perfectly well and they have a vested interest in obscuring these things.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:44 pm 140. venividivici:

As a student of Marxism and the history of Communism, I find Ayer’s goals squarely in line with that tradition.

What will be fascinating, and I can hardly wait to participate, is going to be the way in which the Marxist demographic in the US (which is a bunch of girly academic men (Ayers being a prime example), disaffected trust-funders and butch women) with visions of reeducation camps dancing in its head confronts a population that is more heavily armed than any that Marxists have confronted in Europe or other places around the globe. Sure, they’ll have the inner city gangs on their side, but those gangs are completely undisciplined and actually fairly small in number compared to the military, which will clearly side with the anti-Marxist forces. Obama and his minions need to move quickly (his radical Baby Boomer support base isn’t getting any younger, and Gen X is more likely to turn on the radical Boomers than support them), but the “correlation of forces” is against them.

Of course, were Marxists a reflective lot, they might simply come to the conclusion that their ideology starts from incorrect premises and hence has led to more suffering than benefit throughout its existence. Instead, Obama and his team seem to think they can have “revolution from above” (of course, they call it “revolution from below”, but look at how distinctly UNSUCCESSFUL all of Obama and Ayers work in “the community” has been and any objective observer will determine that if there’s one thing these guys can’t do, it’s take a bunch of rag-tag people from “the hood” and turn them into disciplined cadres. Not that I’m complaining, because I don’t particularly want disciplined cadres walking the streets of America), where the “above” is a bunch of college professors and aging hippies without any type of organizational or administrative experience (do you have any idea how large a supply chain would be necessary to administer a series of camps designed to liquidate 25 million-plus people? Neither does anyone on Team Obama!).

So, to round this long, speculative post out, I’ll quote from Marx and say that when it first appeared in the rest of the world, Communism was a tragedy, hence “The Black Book of Communism” (which should be required reading, by the way). Now that it’s making its appearance in America, it’s going to turn out to be a farce (please lefties, don’t argue the point that Obama isn’t a Communist, it’s embarrassing to someone of my intelligence to have you flail around trying to nail me as “desperate” or “paranoid”. I’m neither, having been blessed from birth with an Epicurean ability to stand above the fray when I choose to do so, just like my hero Julius Caesar, another Epicurean).

Oh, and just to add a bit of conspiratorial fuel to the fire here: someone mentioned that the market sell-off was in anticipation to an Obama presidency, and, predictably, that was poo-poohed by the resident lefties (as if their opinion on market-related matters were worth any more than a virgin’s opinion of sexual matters!). Well, you heard it here first: The market is going to rally like hell until Election Day as the money-men try to make people forget their troubles and vote McCain. I went long the market yesterday in anticipation and I’m already up big, with more to come. See you in 2012, liberal douchebags!!

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:45 pm 141. Fred:

Typos in my above post #139 on line three: should read “what the structures of…” not “was the structures of…” I’m a poor typist. My brain races ahead of the fingers.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:47 pm 142. Jeff K:

When the Right has to resort to charges of Marxism and Communism you know that the realization of defeat is setting in and they’ve got nothing to lose by raking the muck about as low as they can go. It’s really kind of sad and pathetic that they can’t accept losing with a little dignity. Why can’t they just admit that Bush’s Presidency was a failure, and McCain was a disaster of a candidate (moreso when he picked a person who isn’t qualified to head the PTA let alone be Vice President) and regroup for 2012 with some REAL new ideas and REAL new policies.

Instead they choose to try to scare people with claims of Socialism, Marxism and Communism.

Have a little dignity, won’t you? It’s embarrassing to read some of these posts.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:51 pm 143. nick:

grathwohol has never been interviewed by impartial observer only by those who agree with him.

note he did not get Ayewrs convicted of SQUAT~!

was he informent or paid employee?

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:00 pm 144. Donna V.:

Jeff K. wrote:

When can you accept that a man has “reformed” and become a valued member of society?

But Ayers has not reformed. He never apologized for what he did – he said in an interview published on 9/11/01 that he’s sorry he didn’t do more.

I guess the late Simon Wiesenthal was wrong to go around Nazi hunting all those years after WWII, because those guys never hurt anybody ever again and many became upright, respected citizens in their communities. Rather nasty of Wiesenthal to hold a grudge like that. Sheesh, just because his whole family was killed,…,

No, Ayers wasn’t an Eichmann. But that’s not because he lacked the stomach for killing. He just couldn’t make his dreams come true. The only difference between McVeigh and Ayers is that McVeigh built a better bomb.

I recently read an article by the son of a NY federal judge Ayers tried to kill. In fact, he tried to kill the whole family, including the son, who was 9 at the time. Boy, is that fellow an uncharitable guy – he can’t let begones be begones just because Ayers tried to kill him 35 plus years ago. Doesn’t he know Ayers is a – how did you put it – “a highly touted educator and community organizer?” Man, it was just one little bomb, it just blew out all the glass in the house, and here this guy still seems to think Ayers is, like, evil or something.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:01 pm 145. Donna V.:

John Murtagh was the 9 year old I was referring to. Jeff K might want to consider what John M. went through before he informs us what a sterling character Ayers is:

Obama was indeed only eight in early 1970. I was only nine then, the year Ayers’s Weathermen tried to murder me.

In February 1970, my father, a New York State Supreme Court justice, was presiding over the trial of the so-called “Panther 21,” members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on the morning of February 21, as my family slept, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded at our home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family car. (Today, of course, we’d call that a car bomb.) A neighbor heard the first two blasts and, with the remains of a snowman I had built a few days earlier, managed to douse the flames beneath the car. That was an act whose courage I fully appreciated only as an adult, an act that doubtless saved multiple lives that night.

I still recall, as though it were a dream, thinking that someone was lifting and dropping my bed as the explosions jolted me awake, and I remember my mother’s pulling me from the tangle of sheets and running to the kitchen where my father stood. Through the large windows overlooking the yard, all we could see was the bright glow of flames below. We didn’t leave our burning house for fear of who might be waiting outside. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn. Sunlight, the next morning, revealed three sentences of blood-red graffiti on our sidewalk: FREE THE PANTHER 21; THE VIET CONG HAVE WON; KILL THE PIGS.

For the next 18 months, I went to school in an unmarked police car. My mother, a schoolteacher, had plainclothes detectives waiting in the faculty lounge all day. My brother saved a few bucks because he didn’t have to rent a limo for the senior prom: the NYPD did the driving. We all made the best of the odd new life that had been thrust upon us, but for years, the sound of a fire truck’s siren made my stomach knot and my heart race. In many ways, the enormity of the attempt to kill my entire family didn’t fully hit me until years later, when, a father myself, I was tucking my own nine-year-old John Murtagh into bed.”

Many on the left are decrying the “anti-intellectualism” of conservatives these days. Well, the reason I view our self-appointed elites with a jaudiced eye is because they’re the same people who make excuses for crap like this. They’re the same people who lavished Ayers with awards and praise and jobs, who welcomed him into the system he professed to hate, and who evidently believe that trying to murder cops and judges and Army NCO’s really wasn’t that bad – not if the cause is right.

Ayers? Nothing to see here, let’s move on – and talk about really important stuff like Sarah Palin’s shoes.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:20 pm 146. Fred:

venividivici,

You are quite correct that any American form of NKVD or Brownshirts organized by the Left with Obama’s tacit approval would have their asses handed to them in a fight with the rest of us. We are armed to the teeth and are quickly arming and stocking up with ammo just in case the feces hit the windmill. And they will not be able to disarm us. For my part, I have devised a system of hiding mine in a way that they will never be found, since they won’t be in my home or buried in the ground (so the military’s ground imaging technology won’t find them). The big question is how the cadres of military officers will break if this ever came to pass. I’ve argued with a few officers who say they will side with the President, while others say they will side with the people and the Constitution.

I hope to God it never comes to this. People fundamentally do not understand the Right of Center folks. They think we are bloodthirsty hayseeds, but we’re not. It would take a serious Constitutional crisis or ineffectual response to a WMD attack for us to rise up and depose the President and the government. I would not at all relish killing fellow Americans. Civil war is the nastiest of all kinds of wars, as the Romans found out. BTW, I’ve done a fair amount of reading about Gaius Julius Caesar and what the Senate and oligarchs were trying to do to him. He was right to retain his legions and move on them. Pompey had double crossed Caesar and deserved what he got. They were planning to arrest him when he returned to Rome, try him, and then kill him. He was a threat to them because he refused to hew to the standard of mediocrity. But, they made the mistake of underestimating the ability of the common legionis to appraise superior talent, leadership, statesmanship, and respect for tradition. Emphasize all of those, because the elites always make the mistake of putting themselves above those standards, while the common people know true excellence when they see it. I think what Caesar, despite his ambition, was trying to reach for was today’s balance of powers. Having an executive branch in the Roman government that could check the Senate and protect the Plebeian Assembly. Roman government was quite advanced for its time, but it lacked an “executive” that could stop corruption in the courts and take a firmer hand in foreign policy.

Kind of makes one hold our founders’ concept of the three branches of government, checks and balances, and all the rest, in awe and amazement with their wisdom.

And that is why we MUST not allow these Leftists to further their aims to destroy that inconvenient document that they consider a historical artifact. We must not allow “international law” cancel out our Constitution. It is all we really have for an enduring pact that we the people have with each other that says we lend our powers to government to act on our behalf. Obama’s references to “negative powers” of the Constitution is itself codespeak for a denigration of the Constitution because it lacks his preferred “positive powers” of redistribution.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:38 pm 147. Lesley:

If Ayers was even remotely a threat today he’d be in Gitmo and the US certainly has all the power in the world to put him there if it wants to which it doesn’t. Evidently Ayers is of no concern to the FBI, the CIA or any US authority or police force. What’s more, Saint Ronald Reagan’s closest pals consorted with the 40 years ago-”revolutionary”. If you’re going to build a case against Democrats for sitting on a committee, specifically Obama, you have to include a number of Republicans too. As far as I can tell you wingnuts have no concern about any of the Republicans who’ve associated with Ayers so why you make a big huge deal out of Obama sitting with him on one committee WITH REPUBLICANS, is beyond comprehension.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:46 pm 148. Lesley:

Trying again as it didn’t seem to take…or perhaps these threads are moderated.

If Ayers was even remotely a threat today he’d be in Gitmo and the US certainly has all the power in the world to put him there if it wants to which it doesn’t. Evidently Ayers is of no concern to the FBI, the CIA or any US authority or police force. What’s more, Saint Ronald Reagan’s closest pals consorted with the 40 years ago-”revolutionary”. If you’re going to build a case against Democrats for sitting on a committee, specifically Obama, you have to include a number of Republicans too. As far as I can tell you wingnuts have no concern about any of the Republicans who’ve associated with Ayers so why you make a big huge deal out of Obama sitting with him on one committee WITH REPUBLICANS, is beyond comprehension.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:48 pm 149. Donna V.:

Jeff K, again: It’s really kind of sad and pathetic that they can’t accept losing with a little dignity.

We haven’t lost yet. I know Election Day might be just a formality to you, and God knows ACORN is out there registering dead and imaginary voters by the tens of thousands, but we have our say at the voting booth – and the results might just surprise you.

If Obama gets in, you can rest assured that I will support him every bit as much as the Democrats supported Bush over the past 8 years.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:48 pm 150. Lesley:

oops sorry for the second post. The first didn’t appear until I hit refresh a few times.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:49 pm 151. Bozoer Rebbe:

I’m sorry for you, Matt. I would accept a compliment or an apology from anyone. I believe in and practice ALL the Commandments, not just the convenient ones.

If a truly odious person gave me a compliment it would be reason enough to reconsider my actions. If an evil person is pleased with me, I should engage in some self-reflection. If you want, I can provide chapter and verse from God warning us to not associate with evil.

As far as practicing “all” the commandments, do you eat pork? Do you avoid productive labor from sundown Friday to nightfall Saturday? There are many biblical commandments that Orthodox Jews observe that you ignore.

A truly religious person, as opposed to someone self-righteous, would say that they hoped that they adhered to biblical commandments but that ultimately it’s for God to decide whether or not they successfully met the standards.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:51 pm 152. Bozoer Rebbe:

note he did not get Ayewrs convicted of SQUAT~!

Ayers was not convicted because of procedural mistakes by police and the prosecutor’s office. He admitted his guilt, “guilty as sin, free as a bird”.

You don’t have a problem with Ayers because come the revolution you think you’ll be in charge.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:53 pm 153. venividivici:

Jeff K:

When the Right has to resort to charges of Marxism and Communism you know that the realization of defeat is setting in and they’ve got nothing to lose by raking the muck about as low as they can go.

Blow it out the orifice from whence the sun does not shine. Obama himself has said that he sought out the company of individuals with these ideologies as companions during college and was a member of the New Party in Chicago.

Your post would therefore be more accurate if it stated:

When the Left tries to hide its candidate’s history of dalliance with Marxists and Communists, you know the realization that these ideologies are electoral death is setting in, but they’ll stop at nothing to gain power so they have nothing to lose by obfuscating continually.

I was once a graduate student in the humanities, my fine friend. I know all the tricks of the trade. Unless you are going to argue that the modern liberal movement is the only political movement in history without an animating ideology (now, as much as their ideology is braindead, that’s still not the same thing as not having an ideology). Are you saying that? That all these millions of people who make up Team Obama and its supporters just happen to come together to attempt to achieve their goals, without any overarching ideology to guide them? Spare me that drivel.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:04 pm 154. Bozoer Rebbe:

What you guys don’t want to look at is Annenberg, the Reagan-appointed ambassador set up this foundation, and there was a whole board of directors, including Republicans, who served with Ayers on that board.

Just more misdirection from the left.

Annenberg’s foundation made funds available to local groups for improving education. Bill Ayers wrote the grant request to the AF to set up the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. He basically ran the CAC during its formative stage and undoubtedly had a role in the hiring of Obama as the CAC’s director. The CAC burned through about $100 million in the guise of educational reform, but Chicago educators and the CAC itself say that the CAC accomplished nothing measurable in terms of improving education in Chicago. Much of the money ended up going to Ayers’ own radical Small Schools group, as well as other radicals like Mike Klonsky and Father Fleger.

Ayers and Obama were not mere “board members” but directed the activities and funding of the CAC.

I know that little things like facts can’t be allowed to get in the way of the anointing of your messiah, but facts are facts.

It’s a very rare charitable foundation that follows the political ideology of the founding donors. The Ford family has even tried to distance itself from the Ford Foundation. Many, if not most, charitable foundations started by political conservatives end up funding very liberal causes. The Ford Foundation and Rockefeller Foundation are the rule rather than the exception.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:06 pm 155. Bozoer Rebbe:

Through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and the Woods Fund, Obama funneled about $2 million to organizations controlled by Ayers.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:09 pm 156. kabud:

there are plenty of us from elite universities who will fight marxism with the arms in our hands

we are the majority and this is our Land of Free

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:11 pm 157. Bozoer Rebbe:

I always asked myself “why is Ayers still alive?”

Because American conservatives and libertarians generally believe in the rule of law.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:13 pm 158. Jeff:

There are people out there with even more information on the relationship of Bill Ayers and Barack Obama. It was never vetted in the Senate election, because the Republican party in Illinois couldn’t field a candidate. It didn’t happen in his state senate elections, because Ayers was behind it(the fundraising in his kitchen), and the people in Barack’s district do think that Ayers is normal, and was probably just in his protestation of the Viet Nam War.

People are scared. They won’t talk for fear of reprisal. They won’t talk because their neighbors will attack them, ostracize them. The MSM will smear them.

There are many stories out there about Obama and his relationships with dangerous people, they just haven’t been investigated, or people are afraid to speak.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:13 pm 159. dan:

Good to see all the recognition of Communists! Their best defense has always been that they do not exist.

Lefties: you have been used like this since World War 1. When in the hell are you ever going to learn. If we are wrong, this would be the first time the familiar pattern did not culminate in another experiment in applied Socialism. The hour is late; just trust us. We are not your enemies.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:13 pm 160. Bozoer Rebbe:

Is Grathwohl lying or did the FBI really allow these bombings to happen despite having some ability to prevent them? Why didn’t Bob Owens ask these questions?

When the FBI had prior knowledge of planned bombings it did stop them, including the attack on the Detroit police precinct.

It’s obvious that Grathwohl service to his country offends your sense of morality more than Ayers’ and Dohrn’s attempts to kill Americans.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:16 pm 161. venividivici:

Fred,

You’re right, civil war is the nastiest of all. I guess I’d just rather get it over with while I’m young. I have no doubt which side would win, nor do I doubt which way the military would break. I recall seeing a military presentation on C-Span many years ago (during the early days of Clinton), which put a 25% probability of a military coup as civilian and military “cultures” became more estranged. I know who I’m siding with in that case.

One of Caesar’s most famous quotes, looking on a battlefield full of casualties, was “They wanted this”, by which he meant his enemies had goaded him into destroying them, when he really didn’t want to. I know EXACTLY how he felt when I see these leftist retards stirring up the hornet’s nest. They are still in their “adolescent rebellion” phase, but they don’t realize, I’m not their mommy or their daddy and I’m not going to put up with it.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:18 pm 162. Lawnguylander:

It’s obvious that Grathwohl service to his country offends your sense of morality more than Ayers’ and Dohrn’s attempts to kill Americans.

Acting as a courier between the Weather Bureau and sleeper cells is what you consider to be an example of service to our country? Why do you hate America?

And I note that you did not defend Bob Owens’ sloppy journalism which is what my question related to.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:39 pm 163. Aaron Zeal:

As far as practicing “all” the commandments, do you eat pork? Do you avoid productive labor from sundown Friday to nightfall Saturday? There are many biblical commandments that Orthodox Jews observe that you ignore.

A truly religious person, as opposed to someone self-righteous, would say that they hoped that they adhered to biblical commandments but that ultimately it’s for God to decide whether or not they successfully met the standards.

Ha! Point taken, Bozoer Rebbe. My original intent–albeit poorly staged, I might contend–was to discuss the general nature of terrorism. You see, I was born in 1987, which makes me barely twenty-one, but I like to think I am aware enough to know that terrorism does not always include loss of life: There is the terror instilled by the act, but if there is loss of life, well, then that’s murder. Highjacking has always been a preferred means to instill terror, but not always did these incidents lead to loss of life. Granted, some were thwarted, thus preventing loss of life, but the end product remained. Terror.

With that, I am disappointed in the messages of fear propagated by the Republican Party. This is a form of instilling terror and it could be concluded that these are acts of terrorism (in the purest form, I suppose; not in the destructive sense with which we have become familiar). Bill Ayers is being labeled a terrorist, but he never murdered anyone (if I have my facts correct). Terror is a psychological (perhaps to include emotional) phenomenon. A terrorist attacks an otherwise stable psyche. This is accomplished by fear (in hyperbole). Where is the line? Can it be crossed by means of propaganda? If so, has it been crossed by political messages that instill fear?

And perhaps both parties are guilty, but my concern is for the Republican message, or loss thereof.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:46 pm 164. Fred:

venividivici,

The Left has absolutely no idea of the grave danger they are in if they harm the Constitution and the people. I mean, a lot of us are military veterans (I am)and we know how to shoot. We understand discipline instinctively, as anyone who has gone through Basic Training can attest. And those who actually were in a combat MOS (I wasn’t)would be the natural leaders and trainers for the rest of us, in matters of tactics and how to fight. And even in those, many of us non-combat MOS veterans know a lot of it or could pick it up REAL FAST.

Those military officers and men who would support the government are also, if they are in a minority, in grave danger, since they would be specially marked as traitors (I’m sure they think we are the traitors!).

My greatest fear, however, about a civil war would be some leaders escaping overseas and maybe bringing in a foreign power to defend the government. And that is why it would have to be done very carefully with complicated execution of various aspects of it, like arresting certain people and making sure they cannot slip overseas. I could envision Russia, China, or some other countries in concert with them, coming to the aid of the deposed leadership. That’s why getting one’s hands on the nuclear weapons almost immediately would forestall that move and keep the foreign powers at bay, while things are settled here.

But seriously, we have a long road to haul to politically face and defeat the Marxists on political grounds. I would not be an EX-Marxist if I did not think, intellectually and by the evidence of history, we have the better argument and the better ground. But it won’t be easy, given the stranglehold that the Left has on the “transmission belts” of this society. They’ve worked very hard over decades to get control of those and they won’t give up that advantage without a fight.

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:48 pm 165. dan:

i think the danger isn’t civil war, it’s massive increase of subversion at home, coupled with a serious strategic withdrawal abroad. just look at how easily “US imperialism” rolls off the tongue of those raised and educated in the US “system.”

the USA is not slated for invasion; since the advent of nuclear weapons, demoralization and institutional co-optation has been the slow, patient strategy. obama’s candidacy and now his likely victory portend the beginning of the final phase of transformation, not the end.

i’m sorry if this all sounds conspiratorial, Lefties, but which groups sponsored the first anti-Iraq War “global protests,” for example? which nation gave Saddam our order of battle on the eve of the invasion? which nation makes iran, venezuela a problem? which nation made islamic terrorism a global problem? if you think US/Pakistan/Saudi Arabia, google “hakmetyr” and see if you still think so. Which nation ran hundreds of thousands or millions of officers of subversion in enemy nations? Which ideology do the 60s types and their contemporary apes and dupes sympathize with? If they don’t seem to know enough to be technical Marxist-Leninists – that’s ok, they don’t know much about anything.

Which nation *really* armed Saddam Hussein?

The USSf*ckingR, you ignorant f*cking lefty assholes. Even if Obama gets elected – especially if Obama gets elected – YOU MUST START READING REAL BOOKS.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:06 pm 166. Paft:

Fred:

Are you serious?

You’re envisioning a military coup if you decide the left does something to “harm the constitution?” What form would this harm take? Restoring habeas corpus and attorney client privilege? Eliminating torture?

What danger am I in as a leftist if this happens? What danger is my family in? Can we expect to be rounded up by you and your buddies and carted off to a sports stadium for “interrogation” and execution? What “certain people” would be arrested and what would happen to them after that?

Do tell. Are you envisioning a replay of what happened in Chile here?

Hey, CY — is Fred’s “argument” here, his invoking of a military coup if things don’t go the way he wants, your idea of patriotism?

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:13 pm 167. Donna V.:

Acting as a courier between the Weather Bureau and sleeper cells is what you consider to be an example of service to our country?

This is a point which is stupidly obvious to most people, but is lost on lawnguylander: Grathwohl was an FBI informant for the FBI, as the story plainly says. He wasn’t hanging with Ayers and Co. for the fun of it. So, yes, he was serving his country.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:19 pm 168. John Q Public:

I am a registered Republican who, in a “la di da” moment, voted for a Democrat. After all, my union (who is worthless…yet takes 80% of their dues even if I don’t JOIN!!!…Welcome to NJEA!) advocated for the Democrat because he was pro-teacher, pro-union… I agree with SOME issues…well, now New Jersey has Corzine! The ‘advisor’ to Obama. The former employee of Goldman-Sachs! Yes, we in NJ want to recommend Corzine as a financial advisor! Come to NJ! Take him! He is worthless! We have a Democratic Governor, a Democratic controlled legislature, and we are SINKING…HELP US! I pay $7000 a year in property taxes on a home which was built in 1962 and is PAID OFF! They have raised EVERY TAX imaginable…and aren’t finished yet. But the good people (or shall I say sheeple) of NJ keep voting these Democrats in as a majority! In NJ as in the nation, with the system we have in place, we must not let ONE party RULE. There must be checks and balances. SO. IF Obama is going to be President, we must vote to keep a balanced Senate/House. If that is all we can do, so be it. But the Democrats must not be in TOTAL CONTROL…now that is scary!!

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:21 pm 169. Paft:

I do look forward to all you patriotic right wingers here jumping on Fred for invoking a military coup if things don’t go as he likes in this country.

Or THAT kind of planned mass murder okay with you?

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:23 pm 170. lemonhead:

And by the way, China A Communist Country has had to buy up our dept. Who would’ve ever imagined we the capitalists would need the help of the Communists to support us. Stop the shit w/Ayers. You are only hurting yourselves.

The Communist Are Ruling So Get Use To It. You want McCain to continue to barrow money from them so the rich can get richer. Someone has to pay taxes to pay down the dept you Republicans started. Clinton left you a surplus of money. Bush your guys went within a year. Now we are at the mercy of the Communists. So Shut Up!

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:24 pm 171. AnonymousPatriot:

For those unfortunate ones here that were apparently educated in the revisionist version of US History, I suggest that you read The Declaration of Independence, which, for all intent and purposes, was also a declaration of war for all the right reasons.

If you are able to read and comprehend the meaning and the spirit of that document, may I also suggest reading the Constitution of The United States?

There are some things in life that are worth fighting and dying for, and the Constitution of The United States is the most important one of them.

Freedom, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness aren’t just slogans; they actually mean something.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:27 pm 172. Bill in NY:

great thread.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:28 pm 173. lemonhead:

And yes the arabs you hates. They purchased the other 1/2 of our dept. Republicans, please for the love of God shut up. This is not the time. If you haven’t noticed we don’t have the power anymore. The world is moving in a different direction and without us. They took a vote around the world and Obama is it. You want to elect McCain, someone that no one wants to do business with. They asked one of the heads of China who do they want. It is Obama. And you can’t fight w/your banker!!!!

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:36 pm 174. venividivici:

The Left has absolutely no idea of the grave danger they are in if they harm the Constitution and the people.

They have convinced themselves that their political opponents are a bunch of rubes and subhumans, so they put themselves at a disadvantage. So much the worse for them.

But seriously, we have a long road to haul to politically face and defeat the Marxists on political grounds. I would not be an EX-Marxist if I did not think, intellectually and by the evidence of history, we have the better argument and the better ground. But it won’t be easy, given the stranglehold that the Left has on the “transmission belts” of this society. They’ve worked very hard over decades to get control of those and they won’t give up that advantage without a fight.

I read more Marx and the works of his acolytes than I care to remember, so I know all the nooks and crannies of the way they think and can recognize their buzzwords a mile away. I want to believe, as Caesar did, that all men yearn for freedom, but, much as I do believe that, I also believe that freedom isn’t free, so whatever it comes down to, I will have to pay history’s going rate. When I measure myself up against a man like Ayers, who came from everything and made himself worse than a nothing, whereas I came from nothing and have at least made myself into a something, I don’t fear too much for my future or the future of people like me in this country.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:42 pm 175. George:

Oboma’s past actions predict’s his future plans.
You just can’t trust him.

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:57 pm 176. fred:

Paft,

You are a moron and could not read correctly what I had written, which was couched in a very conservative view of how to move against the Communists. I first took GREAT PAINS to sincerely state that I am not a rube who wants to reach for the gun right away. But you can’t read well and only pick out a few words here and there that you can understand. You are a walking example of why our education system is a failure in every respect.

And who runs the education system in this country, dumbass?

The socialists, of course.

A coup against a government that nullifies or grossly ignores the Constitution (a document I suggest you read when you learn how to read)is perfectly legitimate. Eventually, moron, if you learn how to read really well you might want to read the Federalist Papers and also many of Thomas Jefferson’s writings. But, given the level of acumen you’ve given us a sample of here, that may well be beyond your ability even if you do master Hooked On Phonics.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:09 pm 177. Donna V.:

Fred and venividivici, I have been reading your comments with great interest. A while back, Hilton Kramer published an excellent book of essays about the fatal fascination Marxism holds for the intelligentsia, “The Twilight of the Intellectuals.” Kramer pointed out that while Nazism was based on a racist creed that most people today find appalling, Marxism would be much harder to weed out. He noted that the “progressive” ideals of equality and fairness, coupled with its claims to universality, have such a strong emotional appeal to so many well-meaning people that an ideology claiming to be based on those ideals will attract followers for a long time. And they will ignore any evidence to the contrary. Marxism has not worked anywhere in the world it has been tried, even in its softer Western European version. And yet the intellectuals refuse to give up on that dream. They will deny evil, or project it onto us, rather than admit that a perfectly fair and equal world is impossible.

What is really depressing me is the thought that ordinary people in the freest country on earth might take the bait and trade in their once-cherished freedoms, step by step, for security and “equality.” Equality as dictated by their betters. The former American pride in self-sufficiency and individualism has steadily eroded over the course of 60 plus years, and we are, it appears, ready to sleepwalk off the edge of the cliff.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:33 pm 178. venividivici:

Paft:

I do look forward to all you patriotic right wingers here jumping on Fred for invoking a military coup if things don’t go as he likes in this country.

Or THAT kind of planned mass murder okay with you?

Clearly the entire point of that conversation was that IF certain things happen first, the reaction will be to hit back. You do understand the concept of “sequence”, don’t you?

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:40 pm 179. Herb:

Note to Pajamas Media contributors: Bill Ayers is not going to win this election for you.

While you have been successful in demonstrating that Bill Ayers had a relationship with Obama, you have not been successful in demonstrating that the relationship was all that important, that Obama committed (or endorsed) Ayers’s crimes, or that Obama shares any of Ayers’s radical views.

The Weather Underground hasn’t existed for over 30 years. Get over it.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:47 pm 180. Fred:

Herb,

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge engaged in a specific pedagogy by which students were indoctrinated into Marxist concepts of oppression and alienation. Billy Ayers’ fingerprints all over that. Obama knew it and went along with it. It takes a credulousness that tries to hide a deeper recognition of the truth to believe that Barack Obama did not approve of the guiding ideology of Billy Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn.

Obama himself says that in college he gravitated towards professors who were Marxist and socialist. He approved of that worldview. This was PRIOR to meeting Billy Ayers after he graduated from Columbia University. His high school “mentor” was a Communist named Frank Marshall Davis. Liberation Theology is a Pelagian heresy I am quite familiar with, since I had been an adherent of it back in the late Seventies and through much of the Eighties when I was a Jesuit. Much of it employs Marxism, and Cardinal Ratzinger was quite correct about that. One Liberation Theologian I did not read was James Cone, because the sampling of his I did see lead me to believe that it was unsystematic, scatalogical, and more of a rant than anything else. No, Obama was quite molded into the Marxist worldview BEFORE he met Ayers. In fact, their acquaintance and alliance makes sense because they shared a commitment to socialism.

Bear in mind that Billy Ayers was not the only terrorist connection in Obama’s life. Edward Said was an academic apologist for Muslim jihad against the Jews and Obama took courses from Said at Columbia. Rashid Khalidi, another professor, was a member of the PLO’s propaganda arm. Obama approved of these men and seems to have had sympathy for their views.

So, your comment above is just indefensible and a lame attempt to drop by and show the flag for your masters. Wow, I kicked sand in the eyes of those eeeeeevillll capitalist pig dogs at PJM!

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:23 pm 181. R a Z o R:

LATIMES IS HIDING OBAMA’S JEW HATING VIDEO
________________________________________________
Abaraham H. Foxman National Director ADL

” In the context of spending 20 years in a

church where now it is clear that anti-Israel

was there , repeated there … that’s what makes

Obama’s presence at a Jew hating banquet a great

concern . ”
________________________________________________

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5983
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmkgHGQSIV4
http://www.militantislammonitor.org
________________________________________________
……… M c C A I N * P A L I N * 08 ………

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:32 pm 182. nlcatter:

intelligent people know marxism does not work in the modern age,

people are not utopians

and they know Obam will be better for USA than a fundamentlaist christain like Palin/mccain

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:04 pm 183. nlcatter:

there is no proof ayers commited any crime
but Nixon did.

7k prop tax in NJ – bloated government, unions, high pay for gov workers.

your fault for not being invovled at local level

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:07 pm 184. venividivici:

Herb:

Note to Pajamas Media contributors: Bill Ayers is not going to win this election for you.

Then you ought to be happy he’s being featured prominently.

One of the ongoing problems with trying to establish anything concrete about the Ayers-Obama connection has been the lack of willingness to do things like release Obama’s Columbia transcripts, which may show that he took a class that Ayers’ taught. Claiming that we have anything like a complete information set to draw our conclusions from is probably premature.

Secondly, and almost all Obama apologists get this wrong, either deliberately or because they are too stupid to think, we can deduce that Obama shares Ayers’ views from Ayers himself and the kind of man he’s shown himself to be for the last 30+ years. Ayers is not the type of man to spend time in the presence of anyone who doesn’t share his political views because for Ayers all of life is political (”the personal is the political” for these people, after all). When Obama “launched” his career, Obama was the one in need of Ayers’ “blessing”, not vice versa, as Obama was an unknown (hence the “launch”). Ayers would not launch anyone whose politics didn’t agree with his. Q.E.D., Obama and Ayers DO share at least a significant level of agreement on political matters.

People look at Obama now and think that he could never possibly have “needed” Ayers’ blessing of his political ambitions and therefore would have no great likelihood of sharing Ayers’ beliefs. But it’s exactly the opposite: Obama needed Ayers but he had to know that Ayers only would support someone who shared his views. If Obama didn’t share those views, he would not have been able to, nor wanted to, “launch” his career from Ayers’ home. As Rumsfeld used to say “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”. Using deductive logic where there is no direct evidence is a perfectly legitimate method to arrive at conclusions and the only logical conclusion in this case is that Obama and Ayers are ideological kindred spirits.

I’m sorry that you don’t understand enough about logic to have figured this out yourself, but thems the breaks. Don’t say you weren’t warned, assuming you don’t also share Ayers beliefs. Which, if you do, I’ll just say “Game on”.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:19 pm 185. paft:

venividivici:

And do tell, what does Fred imagine would qualify the left’s “damaging the constitution” taking? Maybe restoring habeas corpus and other things that Bush took away? A Supreme court decision he dislikes?

It’s okay, he and and his little band of soldier’s WON’T round up me and a few thousand others and herd us into some stadium so long as everything is going the way he wants in this country?

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:23 pm 186. paft:

Fred:

F: I first took GREAT PAINS to sincerely state that I am not a rube who wants to reach for the gun right away.

I’ve never met a gun crazy hothead who didn’t fancy himself a very cool, judicious customer indeed.

So tell me — what would you define as “the left harming the constitution and its people?”

Got the guts to get specific about it?

F: And who runs the education system in this country, dumbass? The socialists, of course.

So you assume all teachers and school administrators are “socialists?” Would they be among the first to be rounded up in your coup?

F: A coup against a government that nullifies or grossly ignores the Constitution (a document I suggest you read when you learn how to read)is perfectly legitimate.

I’ve read the constitution.

You didn’t seem to mind Bush nullifying or grossly ignoring the constitution. Why is that?

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:28 pm 187. CFM:

Paft: Paft off, you dipstick.

Fred: You ARE a bit over the top, you know. Take a deep breath. Go play a round of Golf. Chill. Civil war is a long, long way from being probable or credible.

The basic view of life represented by modern “Progressivism” has had many faces. Communist, Socialist, Fascist, Nazi. Syndicalist, Anarchist, Collectivist, even Communitarian. Some Christian sects are definitely in that camp, and the Moslems are pretty much the ultimate fusion of religion and parasitism. What they all share is the idea that the people should live for the good of the whole – like termites. And that the people should conform to one common mind – like the Borg. This parasitic mindset has been around for a long time, and has to be periodically tamped down. The best way is, of course, to protect and promote Liberty. To support the idea that the people are smart enough to run their own lives and make their own decisions, for good or ill.

Now, the Left does make an enormous error in thinking that those of us who value our Liberty will surrender it lightly. We will not. If (OK, When) Senator Obama becomes President Obama, things are going to go against Liberty. Our part is to resist. There are a great many things we can all do to resist which do not require ammo or boom-toys. Be creative. Be loud. Be relentless. Promote Liberty and genuine human value systems to kids and neighbors. Hell, teach them arithmetic – the best argument of all against the idea that wealth can be re-distributed.

We turned this around before, we can do it again. We are, after all, the ones in the right.

Meanwhile, here’s a cheery thought. In the admittedly unlikely event that McCain/Palin should prevail, think of how entertaining the Lefies will be. Mouth-foaming, arm-waving, wailing lamentations. They’ll spend all their money on Psychologists treating them for Post-Election Stress Syndrome. Palin Derangement Syndrome will immediately follow. Then, they’ll still have to get real jobs, mouth foam notwithstanding. It’ll be a hoot!

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:35 pm 188. “Well what is going to happen to those people we can’t reeducate, that are diehard capitalists?” What if the Left put up a Candidate so far left that no one would believe how dangerous he was… | Pierre Legrand's Pink Flamingo Bar:

[...] when this was said: (thank you to Bob Owens from Confederate Yankee for a terrific article and to Pajama Media 1 for hosting it!) I asked, “Well what is going to happen to those people we can’t reeducate, [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:37 pm 189. CFM:

Oops, that sounded crass. Correction to my previous post: ISLAM is pretty much the ultimate fusion of religion and parasitism.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:48 pm 190. RE:

paft,

The Left does indeed strive to undermine the US Constitution. The most glaring example would be its desire to subordinate the United States to ‘International Law’ or UN mandates. In effect they would surrender our rights to unelected officials. The goes right to the core of what the Constitution is all about – our sovereignty and representative government.

It’s also the left that tries to undermine the First Amendment with the extremely subjective concepts of ‘Hate Speech’ and ‘Fairness Doctrines’.

That’s just a start. The Left is very hostile to the US Constitution because the Constitution guarantees individual rights and individual liberty while the left wants quite the opposite result – collectivism. They try mightily to mask , disguise, and obfuscate their true intentions. And because they can’t pull it off with educated people, they, like Ayers, have set out to corrupt our educational system by replacing critical thinking skill development with indoctrination.

I agree with Orwell. Behind their propaganda, the Left is evil. They simply do not respect an individual’s freedom of choice and right to live as they see fit. There’s nothing ‘live and let live’ about them at all.

Oct 29, 2008 - 3:30 am 191. venividivici:

And do tell, what does Fred imagine would qualify the left’s “damaging the constitution” taking? Maybe restoring habeas corpus and other things that Bush took away? A Supreme court decision he dislikes?

I’m not Fred, so I’m not going to bother speaking for him. I think it is pretty clear that there are people, myself included, who are reacting to the specific ideas coming under the rubric of “the Ayers Revolution”, as the title of the thread suggests. Attempts to turn the country into a version of Venezuela (a country Ayers is known to admire), for example, would legitimately be resisted by any means up to and including violence.

Stephen Daedelus didn’t call history “a nightmare from which I am trying to awake” because of people like George Bush suspending habeas corpus under specific circumstances in a limited number of cases. He called it that people of people like William Ayers and their free-floating anti-humanitarism and the things it leads to, like the elimination of people whose only crime is wanting to freely exchange goods and services without the state as an intermediary.

If you don’t understand that distinction, you better get yourself some history books and learn the difference because that tiger you’ve got by the tail isn’t going to stay under your control for long.

Oct 29, 2008 - 4:18 am 192. Lawnguylander:

This is a point which is stupidly obvious to most people, but is lost on lawnguylander: Grathwohl was an FBI informant for the FBI, as the story plainly says. He wasn’t hanging with Ayers and Co. for the fun of it. So, yes, he was serving his country.

Thinks harder about this, Donna V. Grathwohl claims to have been in contact with the leadership of the WU and its sleeper cells. A courier in fact, which suggests physical meetings, and an FBI informant. This means (unless Bob Owens is guilty of sloppy writing or intentional deception here and neither of those things seem possible considering his track record) that he either did not inform the FBI of either set of people’s whereabouts (so not an American hero) or he did and the FBI did nothing with this information. Either Grathwohl is a self glorifying liar or the FBI dropped the ball for reasons I’ll leave to your imagination. Or again, Bob Owens did a terrible job of reporting the real relationship Grathwohl had with the WU and/or the FBI. If you’re going to assume that the fault here is with Bob Owens then I’m afraid I want no part of debating you. He’s the Confederate Yankee after all.

Oct 29, 2008 - 5:29 am 193. Obama Briefs « Currently Off The Wall’s Weblog:

[...] 29, 2008 Eyewitness to the Ayers Revolution: They Planned To Kill 25 Million Americans [1] Obama’s friend and associate, Thomas Ayers, had plans to enforce Marxist/socialist [...]

Oct 29, 2008 - 5:40 am 194. cfbleachers:

Well, well, well…this thread has taken a bit of a unique turn. When they get off message, I usually don’t jump back in, because it’s not my cup of tea. But I think it’s pretty illustrative of the problem that is bubbling beneath the surface.

First off, the side which contains apologists for Willliam Ayers…is beneath contempt. Ayers is not defensible, certainly not by anyone with a conscience. He has advocated, plotted, aided and abetted (and admitted) violence against the government, capitalism, our men in uniform and their innocent dates, the police, innocent drivers of trucks, and considered African American diners who might be killed or maimed…”collateral damage”. This is a twisted individual with no soul. His wife did all this and more. Anyone who attempts to legitimize this, has gone off the deep end and has left the reservation.

To suggest that he has not been “convicted” of anything…when he has admitted to and been taped and recorded STILL advocating techniques to undermine our government, our military and to advance the causes of our sworn enemies…makes anyone who continues to champion him…well, slime…frankly.

Osama bin Laden has not been “convicted” of anything and there is no proof that HE murdered anyone. Even Senator Obama wants to capture or kill him. He is a terrorist, because he plots to kill our citizens. Osama bin Laden wants to undermine our system of government. So DOES William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.

For those mature enough to understand that the absence of a conviction is not proof of innocence, we can move the discussion forward.

Secondly, the argument that there is a “statue of limitations” on murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder, not only do you not understand the law, you don’t understand basic decency. These are your countrymen whose lives you think are so lacking in value, that you are so cavalier about ignoring…that you would rather advance political leftism than fundamental and elemental right and wrong. You have lost your moral compass by becoming bathed in leftist zeal. You are not holding onto nor are you tethered to any sense of morality.

The man seeks to undermine and overthrow the government and replace it with totalitarian and iron fisted, brown shirted brutality. Perhaps I am being too subtle here…by defending Ayers with such fervor, you are condemning Senator Obama. The point being made by your countrymen across the aisle…is that Ayers is a bad actor. You lose the argument…badly…by being sucked into trying to defend this subhuman cretin. Worse, it should be pointed out…all your opposing debaters have to do, is point at YOU now, and say THAT…IS PRECISELY WHAT OBAMA BELIEVES.

You, in your zeal to defend Senator Obama, are weakening him and his attempt to distance himself from the twisted Ayers and the soulless Dohrn. YOU…are bringing the argument to the tipping point that will help destroy Senator Obama. And your opposing debaters should thank you for your efforts.

As for civil disobedience, the left has no defense in the thought exercise of such an event. It has been the left that has been the champions of armed insurrection, civil disobedience, rioting in the streets, agitating for revolution…for nearly 50 years. (by the way, this is the entire construct of the far left, including Ayers and Dohrn)

Fred’s thought exercise of civil war and armed resistance toward a too far left attack on our Constitution (or in defense of Ayers genocide against 25 million resisters), simply takes the next step in the thought exercise of “what if”.

To suggest that an attack on the Constitution (or reeducation camps and extermination of 25 million of our countrymen, as advocated by the anti-capitalists) would not prompt the normally sedate “middle America” to become agitated and ready to fight for their beliefs, is to end the thought exercise too early.

But, it is just a thought exercise. Right? You folks making apologies and simpleminded defenses of those who seek to overthrow our government, destroy capitalism and impose jackbooted totalitarianism…you are not seriously interested in such a thing, are you? Please admit that you simply got caught up in the thought exercise and you are not seriously advocating the brainwashing and indoctrination of our youth into becoming goosestepping thugs.

So, let’s put aside those weaker minds who can’t comprehend the damage they do by insisting on defending totalitarian thought. They are either too dim to follow the conversation or too depraved to join it.

Let’s concentrate on those who say that there is no appropriate “nexus” to Senator Obama. THIS, is the argument that Senator Obama wants you to make. THIS argument does not damage him and can’t be pointed at…as part and parcel, and PROOF of the danger lying beneath the affirmation of Ayers. (notice, please…not the association with Ayers…but affirmation of his belief system, worldview and furtherance of his stated goals)

Instead of making this comment any longer than it is, I will separate out that argument in a following comment.

Oct 29, 2008 - 5:47 am 195. cfbleachers:

Having moved on from the rather imbecilic attempted defense of totalitarianism, we can concentrate on whether Senator Obama has enough of a “nexus” to radical extremism to warrant a charge against him that should resonate or stick.

The answer, I believe….is maybe. I think any other answer will fail, mostly due to partisanship and those who will kneejerk a response based upon what they want the answer to be, rather than an intellectual exercise into how to prove the point on either side. Frankly, we don’t know enough about Senator Obama to come to the conclusion. All we can do, is look at what we do know.

I have read everything I can, almost everything available to come to a conclusion about Senator Obama’s belief system and worldview. Again, for anyone too eager to defend him that you believe he shouldn’t even have his worldview or belief system examined, step away from the computer, put down the keyboard and go have a double mocha, pumpkin spice latte with extra whip cream. This discussion is for folks who can actually use reason and rational thought once in a while.

Similarly, for those who “already know” that Senator Obama is “a Muslim”, a “terrorist”, a ” Hussein, agent of the enemy”…go have a Jack and Coke and we will not have to explain away your particular brand of logic to the remaining debaters. You, unfortunately with your heart hopefully in the right place of defending your countrymen and your Constitution, get carried away with the attack and you mirror the deficiencies of those who defend Ayers. You get pointed by the opposing side and they say “THAT’s THE VOICE OF THE OTHER SIDE”. It drives away the middle that needs to make the difference in this election.

So, let the remaining of us, discuss whether the “nexus” is enough to put Senator Obama’s belief system, worldview and whether an AFFIRMATION of radical extremism exists enough to put it at issue.

Here begins the exercise. How would one normally determine what, precisely, is the worldview or belief system of a person running for high elected office? Their words and their speeches? I contend that this would be the LEAST reliable element, but certainly a starting point. However, anyone suggesting that this is the ONLY element, or that it is the most important element in uncovering the true worldview or belief system…please drop out of the discussion now. You won’t add anything to it, and you are such an empty vessel you will only degrade the discussion. A politician will say what needs to be said to garner enough votes to win. He or she will avoid saying things that will lose them too many votes.

They will say one thing to one group, another thing to another group…and the speeches are usually broad stroke platitudes, sloganeering and essentially pablum for the uncritical thinker. Unless they are attacking their opponent, there isn’t much there… and after the first couple of months of the same stuff…there isn’t much to gain out of prepared speeches and teleprompter dronings.

Legislation? Yes, to an extent the votes on key issues will give SOME evidence about worldview and belief systems. But this is a two party system that is designed to horse trade favoritism. That inherent weakness in a two party system, pretty much ensures very little independent thinking. Candidates will have voted with their party an overwhelming majority of the time…or they won’t get the nod to lead that party on the ticket. The system has a built-in mechanism that punishes independent thought.

McCain wins, hands down…on bucking his own party. But he still is forced to vote along party lines an overwhelming majority of the time. So, how someone votes…along party lines, really doesn’t give us much, albeit some…evidence of worldview and attachment to a belief system. (by the way, this inherent one lever thinking imposed upon our leaders, is one of the weakest links in the chain in the two party system. the reason it is broken, the reason we are so divided, is that you can’t get anyone elected who isn’t part of the system, you can’t even get anyone nominated who is truly an independent thinker, there is a built in “either/or”…and the divide is getting wider. The left wants someone further left to lead the ticket and the right wants someone further right to lead the ticket…if we get only those choices…the choices generally…suck)

So, campaign speeches and legislation can only give us small pieces, broad overviews and tidbits of information about the worldview or belief system of a candidate. Let me say again, it’s not “nothing”…but it’s simply not nearly an accurate picture and very far from a whole picture.

What then? We have to look at life and the living of it. What does this person do in private moments. Who does he spend those private moments with and what does he say in those private moments. And yes…what do those around him, the ones he chooses to spend the overwhelming majority of his free moments with…what do they say and believe? Finally, what does he affirm by word, act and deed? From what does he recoil? What offends him? What motivates him? Upon which pathway in life does he always return?

Let’s examine Senator Obama. (for those who want to play the Nyah-nyah game of “McCain does this too, McCain does that too…step away from the keyboard now, take a time out and we can have a nice discussion about anyone else when we are finished here)

1)Childhood influences. Senator Obama had an early life that was far, far from typical or ordinary. His natural father was essentially an estranged figure for much of his life. His adopted father lived in Jakarta. His mother, a free spirit and probably a “pre-hippie” was not attached to any organized faith and viewed religion as a matter of curious study in human behavior, not as a matter of faith. His natural father went back to Kenya and became embroiled in a heated political upheaval. Barack Sr. was a strong advocate for “political equality, social justice, human dignity and freedom of conscience, freedom from want, disease and exploitation, equal opportunities and lastly, a high and growing per capita income and equitable distribution.”

“Yet one who has read Marx cannot fail to see that corporations are not only what Marx refers to as the advanced stage of capitalism, but Marx even called it finance capitalism by which a few would control the finances of so many and through this have not only economic power, but political power as well.”

“Theoretically, there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100 percent of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed. “…I do not see why the government cannot tax those who have more and syphon of these revenues into savings which can be utilized in investment for future development, thereby reducing our reliance on foreign aid.”

“There is a small minority of people and worse still, on a racial basis, who have high incomes and who can afford to save, but no country can afford to rely on one group or a small segment of society to do all the saving.”

“… What is more important is to find means to redistribute our economic gains to the benefit of all…this is the government’s obligation.”
(all quotes from Problems Facing Our Socialism, by Barack Obama, Sr.)

As we can see, there are some familiar themes that are generated from the ideals imbued in the natural father, that have, at least upon face value…been inherited by the son. Or perhaps ingrained or adopted. This is not unnatural or unusual. The “Dreams” of his father were not happily realized. He was shut out politically, life delivered some horrific blows (he lost his legs in a car accident and sunk into alcohol abuse and potentially depression) and died at an early age. A son wanting to pay tribute to the Dreams of his father, most certainly could adopt a blueprint for doing so, by following in the footprints laid down in his works.

Next, Frank Marshall Davis.

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:08 am 196. Vince P:

Here is a timeline from here. From the source I am including the Ayers related items. The numbers in brackets are footnotes at the source.

1971-1979

While a teenager in Hawaii, Obama spends considerable time with Frank Marshall Davis (whose identity Obama hides by describing him only as “Frank” in his book, “Dreams From My Father”). [19] Davis is a dope-smoking drinking buddy of Obama’s grandfather, Stanley Dunham. [21] (Obama had met Davis shortly after arriving in Hawaii, at age 10, [21] but was most influenced by him during his high school years.) In place of his absent father and stepfather, Davis becomes Obama’s mentor.

It is believed that Davis was a close friend of Thomas Ayers (father of William Ayers) in Chicago, and that it was Davis who encouraged Obama to attend Columbia College in New York and hook up with William Ayers. [259]

1979-1981

While at Occidental, Obama joins the Students for Economic Democracy (SED), which is a branch of the Campaign for Economic Democracy (CED), a group that was founded by radical, anti-American, Marxist activist Tom Hayden (former husband of actress Jane Fonda), who was also active with the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). [259] (William Ayers’ subsequent radical group, the Weather Underground, was comprised of many former SDS members; in 1969 the Weather Underground – then called simply “Weatherman” – declared “war on Amerikka.”) Obama’s first known public speech takes place at an Occidental College event sponsored by the SED. [259,332]
1981-1984

Obama moves to New York City and enrolls at Columbia University. He attends socialist conferences “for inspiration.” His roommate is Pakistani Muslim Sohale Siddiqi. [26,27] Siddiqi is a drug user; Obama allegedly stops using drugs while at Columbia. Living a few blocks away from Obama and Columbia is William Ayers (at 520 West 123rd Street). [206,297]

Like his Occidental College papers, Obama’s academic files from Columbia have been kept secret. [259] While attending Columbia, Obama lived off campus, near William Ayers. It is possible Obama first met Ayers during those years, 1981-1983. Looking for evidence of Obama’s past, Fox News contacted 400 Columbia students from that time period; none remembered Obama. [259] There is speculation that Frank Marshall Davis arranged for Obama to meet William Ayers in New York, and their being neighbors was not a coincidence; Ayers then possibly suggested that Obama return to Chicago with him. (Was Ayers the reason Obama moved to Chicago?) [259] (Years later, Obama and Ayers are neighbors in Chicago’s Hyde Park neighborhood.)
Obama and Ayers share a mutual friend, Edward Wadie Said, a Palestinian-American, political activist, anti-Israel professor at Columbia; Said was called toe “professor of terror” by the American magazine, “Commentary.” [332,334] In 1998, Obama and his wife attend a banquet at which Said is the keynote speaker; in fact, Obama is seated next to Said at dinner. [335]

1985-1988

Obama also works with the Alinsky group “Developing Communities Project” (DCP), and “ACORN” (the “Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now”) and Project Vote, both Alinsky-network creations. Obama’s duties include organizing residents of the Altgeld Gardens housing project on Chicago’s south side. [45,324] ACORN is an off-shoot of what had been the National Welfare Rights League (NWRL), a militant 1960s group that staged protests in welfare offices and, often successfully, demanded increased benefits with threats of violence. ACORN was founded by William Ayers’ SDS associate, Wade Rathke, and is currently the largest and most powerful leftist organization in the United States. [227,322]

Obama has probably already met William Ayers by this time, and likely still remains in contact with him. [259]

Obama is hired with $25,000 Kellman receives from the Woods Fund. [33] Obama will later serve on the Woods Fund board, along with former Weather Underground domestic terrorist, Pentagon bomber, radical, leftist, communist, and fugitive from justice William Ayers. [33,204]

Note that the Woods Fund was founded by the Woods family, which owned a coal business that was a major supplier of coal to Commonwealth Edison; the CEO of Commonwealth Edison was Thomas Ayers, father of William Ayers. [346]

1988 – 1991
It has been suggested that it was William Ayers who persuaded Khalid al-Mansour to raise funds for Obama’s Harvard tuition. [259]

In 1989, Obama works briefly at the Sidley Austin LLP Law Firm, [55] as a summer associate from Harvard law School, where he meets future wife Michelle LaVaughan Robinson; she is his mentor at the law firm. [324] Also working at the firm is Bernadine Dohrn (1984-1988), former Weather Underground radical, terrorist bomber, fugitive from the FBI, and wife of fellow radical William Ayers. (Although Dohrn works for the law firm, her criminal record prevents her from being admitted to the Illinois bar.) [50]

Obama’s summer job at Sidley Austin is likely arranged by William Ayers and Ayers’ father, Tom Ayers, (CEO of Commonwealth Edison, 1975-1986). [259]

In 1990, Obama serves as a summer associate at the law firm Hopkins and Sutter in Chicago. [357]

In 1990, Obama turns down a job offer from Antoin “Tony” Rezko’s low-income housing development company; this may have been Obama’s first contact with Tony “the fixer” Rezko. [48] Rezko, born in Aleppo, Syria, maintains varied contacts with Obama until he is convicted and jailed in 2008. It is not known how Obama first met Rezko. [245] (Ayers, Obama, and Rezko have all dealt with the Broadway Bank in Chicago, run by the mob-tied Giannoulias family, and it may have been Ayers or a Giannoulias family member who brought Obama’s name to the attention of Rezko.)

1991-1992

Obama plans his first book, “Dreams From My Father.” He receives a $125,000 advance from publisher Simon and Shuster, but fails to write the book. Obama travels with his wife to Bali to gain the “peace and quite” to write, but still produces no manuscript. The contract is canceled, and Obama is asked to return part of the advance payment he receives. Obama returns to Chicago, signs a new contract (with Times Book, a Random House Division) for $40,000, and subsequently delivers a completed manuscript. It is believed that “Dreams From My Father” was ghost-written by Obama’s friend, William Ayers, based on the startling similarities of Ayers’ writings and the Obama book, the fact that Obama’s only previous public writings were atrocious poetry he had written in college, and Obama’s inability to speak well when not reading from a script or off a teleprompter. The book is a critical and financial dud – until Obama becomes famous and it is re-printed. [57,58,224,250]

1993 – 1996

In 1993, Obama is placed on the board of the Woods Fund by William Ayers. (The period Obama serves on the Woods Fund board may be 1997 to 2002; conflicting dates have been presented in the media.) [259,297]

About 1993 (possibly later), Obama buys a townhouse in Chicago, with a loan provided by the city’s Broadway Bank. His down payment is $110,000. The bank, owned by the politically-connected Giannoulias family, is alleged to have long-standing mob ties, as well as connections with Tony Rezko and William Ayers. Allegedly Obama gets a “sweetheart” deal on the townhouse, ostensibly in exchange for future favors. (Obama later endorses Alexi Giannoulias when he runs for Illinois State Treasurer.) [281,291,329]

William Ayers (who may have met Obama as early as 1981) selects Obama as chairman (1995-2000) of the “Chicago Annenberg Challenge on Excellence in Education” (CAC) [59,60], an educational reform program that proves to be remarkably unsuccessful [60,204]; Ayers and Obama approve grants of $175,000 and $482,662 to groups founded by Ayers and run by former communist party leader Mike Klonsky. [61,155,156,201] Obama may have worked with the CAC as early as 1993.

Obama approves enough grants with CAC money that the “Chicago Reader” refers to Obama as a “philanthropist.” Obama’s time with the CAC is his only “executive experience.” While with the CAC, Obama and Ayers distribute an amount in the neighborhood of $100 million, and achieve essentially none of the group’s stated goals. [297]

It should be noted that the selection of Obama, a 33 year-old junior lawyer at a small law firm, as chairman of the educational reform group CAC is strange, inasmuch as the board also includes several older and experienced university presidents – one of whom, Stanley O. Ikenberry of the University of Illinois, later remarks, “It was unusual, here you had a person trained in the law chairing a board on school reform.” [65]

In 1995, Obama’s political career starts with a fundraiser at the home of Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dohrn [60,66]. Ayers and Dohrn are former 1960s radicals and former Weather Underground militants, who disappeared in 1970 after their bomb, designed to kill army officers in New Jersey, accidentally destroys a Greenwich Village townhouse; they eventually turn themselves in to authorities in 1980; but because of improper FBI surveillance Ayers and Dohrn are never prosecuted for their involvement in 25 bombings; [67,71]

Ayers and Dohrn (who has met with communists in Cuba and Viet Cong representatives in Budapest) [68,69] are alleged to have been occasional baby-sitters for the Obama children. [70,71] Obama falsely claims that this 1995 fundraiser is the first time he met William Ayers. [259]

The North Vietnamese have presented both Ayers and Dohrn with rings made with metal from an American plane shot down in North Viet Nam. [69]

An interesting side note: Ayers and Dohrn are the adoptive parents of Chesa Boudin, whose parents, David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin, are serving three consecutive 25 year prison terms for felony murder, having killed three Brinks guards in a 1981 robbery to get cash to fund their Weather Underground, SDS, Black Liberation Army, and Black Panther Party activities. Chesa Boudin was named a Rhodes Scholar, through the help of Dennis Hutchinson, a professor at the University of Chicago, where Ayers and Obama taught. [205]

In 1997, Obama and Ayers appear together as speakers on several occasions; at the University of Chicago, their topic is, “Should a child ever be called a ‘super predator?’” [71,83] The announcement of their November, 1997 appearance together states, “Ayers will be joined by Sen. Barack Obama, Senior Lecturer in the Law School, who is working to combat legislation that would put more juvenile offenders into the adult system.” [237]

In 1997, Obama endorses William Ayers’ book on juvenile justice, with an article praising it in the Chicago Tribune in which Obama calls the Ayers book a “searing and timely account of the juvenile court system.” Michelle Obama (who at this time is the University of Chicago’s dean of student services and director of the school’s Community Service Center), hosts a panel discussion of the book, in which both Obama and Ayers participate. In 2008, seeking to distance to Obama from Ayers, the campaign claims Obama did not “write a blurb for his book.” [77,84,279,333]

Ayers mentions Obama in his book, where he writes, “Our neighbors include Muhammad Ali, former mayor Eugene Sawyer, poets Gwendolyn Brooks and Elizabeth Alexander, and writer Barack Obama. Minister Louis Farrakhan lives a block from our home and adds, we think, a unique dimension to the idea of ’safe neighborhood watch’: the Fruit of Islam, his security force, has an eye on things twenty-four-hours a day.” [78,297,333] In April of 2008, when Obama’s relationship with Ayers is brought up in a primary debate, Obama lies, saying he doesn’t know him well and that he is only “a guy who lives in my neighborhood.” [78,279]

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:21 am 197. fred:

CFM and Paft have not read what I had written carefully, because they would note the careful way I talked about armed resistance to tyranny. I had couched it as something that is the last thing you do, not the first or even intermediate step.

They read me the way THEY WANTED TO READ ME, which is the mark of either a less literate mind or a scurrilous, opportunistic attempt to stereotype me.

This is blatantly unjust, but in political debate all is fair, eh?

Paft, do you want a phone number or website address to order that Hooked on Phonics series yet?

cfbleachers is quite correct to take us on a journey into the nexus of Obama’s world by employing the evidence we have and using deductive logic to reconstruct it.

I just finished reading “Dreams From My Father” (which was probably ghost written by William Ayers). The larger point made is that Obama does approve of his biological father’s ideals, which are those of a Communist. Anyone on the Left who has written this autobiography and not made that connection needs to go back to re-read it and pay more attention.

One observation: only two events have really panicked the Obama campaign people.

1. The William Ayers thing

2. Joe the Plumber

And it panics them because both events open a window into the mind of the candidate, which they do not want anyone to have a glimpse of.

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:42 am 198. cfbleachers:

In “Dreams from My Father”, Senator Obama speaks in some detail about “Frank”. The cryptic reference to his name, was obviously an attempt to avoid some of the dodgier elements of precisely who “Frank” was and what he was all about.

FMD was a bit of an odd duck. He was involved in some rather…um..unique sexual escapades, one involving a 13 year old girl and has described enjoying being urinated on as well as bisexual encounters. This is somewhat beside the point, I suppose…however, it does say something about Stanley Durham, who was the motivating force behind introducing young Barack to this person, and leaving him alone with him at the age of 9. The relationship continued for about 10 years. Stanley Durham was a bit of a hard case himself, taking the young boy to seedy bars with pictures of Disney characters in compromising positions. Clearly not a healthy environment for an impressionable youth, but, there is no evidence that the young child was forced to endure much more than the surroundings…and to make up dirty limericks for the amusement of these two adult “parental” type figures in his life.

FMD was “given” to Barack as a “gift” from Stanley…in order to guide him into a deeper consciousness of his black heritage.

In essence, a hand-picked mentor and father figure, since Barack Sr. was absent from his life, except for a brief period when he was 10. FMD was a Communist sympathizer, with strong anti-white sentiments who has an FBI file that contains over 600 pages. It is a bit murky whether FMD “officially” joined the Communist party, but there is very little doubt that he was an activist in advancing their cause.

He took on the role of mentoring the young Obama and attempting to instill in him the values that he held dear. College is an exercise in compromise. Don’t sell out. Black people have a reason to hate white people. He taught the young Obama to be wary, keep his eyes open, stay awake…because otherwise he would be trained to sell out. And much of this stuck. College aged Obama steadfastly refused to sell out. He affirmed his lessons at the knee of Frank Marshall Davis by choosing to associate with the radical extremists at college.

The Marxist professors, the punk rock performance poets…this is pretty much a straight line linear connection to the lessons at the knee of Frank Marshall Davis and an affirmation of the worldview and belief system that Davis held.

We don’t know, because we have been shielded from knowing…who those Marxist professors were. Or what they said, or told the college aged Obama what to believe and how to think. We can only surmise…based upon the ragings of some of these flaming anti-capitalists and tear down the system agitators historically.

What we do know…what cannot be reasonably or rationally debated, it is a given…that Frank Marshall Davis was assigned the role of mentor, the young Obama was given a lesson in hate and disrespect for the country in general and white people in particular and he went to college with those lessons tucked underneath his arm…and, tried to follow them. This affirmation of a particular worldview or belief system is undeniable. At least until college age. It is not a “variable” in the equation, it is a given in the equation.

What it means to who Senator Obama is today, is not conclusive. But living in denial at its existence, is to deny to the man his own words, his own pathway.

Since neither the candidate, nor the entrenched media in his pocket will examine it…we must do it with the known facts and deductive logic. At least at the age of college student, Senator Obama was showing signs of a worldview and belief system that tended toward Marxism.

Next…post college years.

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:56 am 199. nlcatter:

cfbleachers – your book shows you to be a MORON

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:01 am 200. nlcatter:

1 Ayers has not bombed anything because you have no proof to contrary

2 Obama knew Ayers as professor not a radical

voters dont care

3 Joe the P is a liar and NO ceritification that he is a plumber

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:04 am 201. fred:

cfbleachers is no liar, “nlCLUTTER.” Go throw your toddler tantrums elsewhere, as you contribute nothing substantial to the discussion. The adults are discussing things. Please leave the living room and go to the playroom.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:18 am 202. paft:

CFM:

No.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:20 am 203. paft:

Comment 190: The Left does indeed strive to undermine the US Constitution. The most glaring example would be its desire to subordinate the United States to ‘International Law’ or UN mandates. In effect they would surrender our rights to unelected officials. The goes right to the core of what the Constitution is all about – our sovereignty and representative government.

So would this right wing coup take place if the US followed international law and refrained from torturing prisoners?

comment 190: It’s also the left that tries to undermine the First Amendment with the extremely subjective concepts of ‘Hate Speech’ and ‘Fairness Doctrines’.

So would a return to the Fairness Doctrine result in this military coup?

Comment 190: The Left is very hostile to the US Constitution because the Constitution guarantees individual rights and individual liberty while the left wants quite the opposite result – collectivism. They try mightily to mask , disguise, and obfuscate their true intentions. And because they can’t pull it off with educated people, they, like Ayers, have set out to corrupt our educational system by replacing critical thinking skill development with indoctrination.

So would public school and university educators be among the first to be rounded up after this coup?

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:29 am 204. paft:

PFT: And do tell, what does Fred imagine would qualify the left’s “damaging the constitution” taking? Maybe restoring habeas corpus and other things that Bush took away? A Supreme court decision he dislikes?
VVV: I’m not Fred, so I’m not going to bother speaking for him.

In other words, you’d really rather not say because it wouldn’t make either you or Fred look very good.

VVV: I think it is pretty clear that there are people, myself included, who are reacting to the specific ideas coming under the rubric of “the Ayers Revolution”, as the title of the thread suggests.

Well, your main bone of contention with Ayers as described in this interview is plainly not that he wanted to round up, imprison and murder lots and lots of Americans because of their politics, but that you guys feel he wanted to round up, imprison, and murder the WRONG Americans because of their politics.

VVV: Attempts to turn the country into a version of Venezuela (a country Ayers is known to admire), for example, would legitimately be resisted by any means up to and including violence.

And what would qualify as an “attempt to turn the country into a version of Venezuela? Someone else has already cited obeying UN rules and bringing back the Fairness Doctrine.

VVV: If you don’t understand that distinction, you better get yourself some history books and learn the difference because that tiger you’ve got by the tail isn’t going to stay under your control for long.

I’m quite familiar with history (and James Joyce) thank you. That’s why I’m asking you and other eager apologists for this proposed upcoming military coup specific questions.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:40 am 205. paft:

Fred: CFM and Paft have not read what I had written carefully, because they would note the careful way I talked about armed resistance to tyranny. I had couched it as something that is the last thing you do, not the first or even intermediate step. They read me the way THEY WANTED TO READ ME, which is the mark of either a less literate mind or a scurrilous, opportunistic attempt to stereotype me.

No, Fred, I’ve simply asked you for specifics. You seem oddly unwilling to provide them, which indicates that either you haven’t thought this thing through, or you are embarrassed about what going into more detail would reveal about your daydream coup.

Fred: I just finished reading “Dreams From My Father” (which was probably ghost written by William Ayers). The larger point made is that Obama does approve of his biological father’s ideals, which are those of a Communist. Anyone on the Left who has written this autobiography and not made that connection needs to go back to re-read it and pay more attention.

So would Obama being elected president prompt this coup of yours?

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:44 am 206. RE:

paft,

You’re an odd bird in thinking that your personal projections somehow constitute a sensible rebuttal.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:55 am 207. paft:

Comment 206:

How does asking for specifics qualify as “personal projections?”

Oct 29, 2008 - 9:02 am 208. nlcatter:

paft continues to lie

1 his dad was not a communist- he was kenyan

2 you want to talk revolution jefferson said ”
EVERY generation needs a new revolution”.

Oct 29, 2008 - 9:03 am 209. paft:

nlclatter:

You’re plainly confusing me with some other poster here. I never even addressed the issue of Obama’s father, and I never said he was a communist.

Oct 29, 2008 - 9:21 am 210. Jeff K:

I’ve heard the story about the family that Ayers “alledgedly” threatened to kill. Sounds like serious stuff, how come there was never anything done about it? Maybe because the entire thing is a fairy tale? Seems to me if someone is threatening my family as a father I’d report the guy and get his arrested and tried. None of that seems to have happened. This guy sounds like another “Larry Sinclair” But I’m guessing you Rightwing nuts believe his story too?

Here’s a tip, experience the real world, don’t sit glued to Faux News and think they are telling you the real truth.

Mindless Rightwing drones.

Oct 29, 2008 - 9:22 am 211. Pierre Legrand:

Sounds like serious stuff, how come there was never anything done about it? Maybe because the entire thing is a fairy tale?

Only problem you have is we have a witness who was there when Billy and Bernardette were saying these awful things. Additionally the tactics they talk about with the FBI Operative are exactly the tactics as outlined by Anatoliy Golitsyn in The Perestroika Deception. Here is what was written by this high level Soviet Defector regarding the tactics to be used against the Western Populations.

Secondly securing the victory of the radical Left in the next presidential elections in 1992 (Ed: yes the time frame is incorrect but read on) in the United States and the victory of the Socialist and Labour parties in the national elections in West Germany, France and Britain in the 1990’s. (snipped for brevity further on in the same paragraph) In their (Soviets) assessment, the Left will be prepared to carry out and accelerate restructuring in the United States.

The Soviet strategists believe that an economic depression in the United States would provide even more favourable conditions for the execution of their strategy. In that event, the Soviets and their allies would shift to the doctrine of class struggle and try to divide the Western nations along crude class lines.

The final period of restructuring in the United States and Western Europe would be accompanied, not only by the physical extermination of active anti Communists, but also by the extermination of the political, military, financial and religious elites. Blood would be spilled and the political re-education camps would be introduced. The Communists would not hesitate to repeat the mass repressions of their revolution in 1917, of the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe in the Second World War or of the Chinese Communist victory of 1949.

This time, they would resort to mass repressions in order to prevent any possibility of revolt by the defeated, and to make their victory final. The Author bases this conclusion in part on the following information. While the long-range strategy was being formulated in the late 1950’s, the Soviet strategists asked for a KGB estimate of the number of West Germans would need to be isolated in order to turn West Germany into a neutral country. The KGB estimate was 150,000 Germans.

“Well what is going to happen to those people we can’t reeducate, that are diehard capitalists?” What if the Left put up a Candidate so far left that no one would believe how dangerous he was…

Oct 29, 2008 - 10:12 am 212. Jaci:

I find it completely unremarkable that 80% of former Weather Underground members are now college professors. Makes me wonder if any of them made it this far west, cause I know I heard similar things in my college classes.

Oct 29, 2008 - 11:38 am 213. susan:

“I’ve heard the story about the family that Ayers “alledgedly” threatened to kill”

according to this logic, al capone was never caught in the act of being the chief of mobsters either.

FREE AL CAPONE, he’s an honest man.

Oct 29, 2008 - 12:44 pm 214. susan:

nlcatter, because a kenyan cannot be a communist.

communist are only of russian passport. It’s worldwide known.

Oct 29, 2008 - 12:45 pm 215. fred:

Poor nlclutter. This dimwit thinks Barack Obama, Sr. was not a Communist when he most certainly was a member of Kenya’s Communist Party before and after his education in the United States. He published a paper around 1965 which outlines what his party would do to restructure the Kenyan economy. Right out of Karl Marx. Every one of it.

Why does this nitwit bother posting here, when her hiccups barely make sense and are not going to convert anyone? Geez, these Obamabots sure are stupid.

Oct 29, 2008 - 1:23 pm 216. The Man that Ayers Killed - Page 12 - Political Forum:

[...] Originally Posted by Agnapostate Uh, yeah…it would be. And I said that you could block out all identifying characteristics other than your name and photo. To those of you who have not dismissed me, my father, Larry Grathwohl will be on The O’Reilly Factor tonight on Fox News (which has yet to be released to the public as far as I know because it was just decided last night). Below is a link from his interview on Pajama Media, he did over the weekend with Bob Owens, and last night he did an interview on a radio talk show with Rusty Humphries. As for posting my drivers license….I don’t think so. I don’t see anyone else doing that, so why should I? If anyone should have to prove anything, it should be "Sands" telling us who/where/when/how he was given all this information about the Weathermen & my dad. Have a great evening everyone, and don’t forget to watch The O’Reilly Factor tonight!!! http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/eyewitn…rs-revolution/ [...]

Oct 29, 2008 - 2:01 pm 217. DigiSniper:

Larry Grathwohl is a pathological liar. If he was such a credible informant and witness, why were NO PERSONS ever arrested or convicted from ANY of his “investigations”???

Oct 29, 2008 - 2:49 pm 218. Christine:

Hey everybody, check out this interesting article, you will be SHOCKED:

http://www.davidduke.com/general/john-mccains-connection-to-the-jewish-supremacist-bronfman-family-liquor-empire_3330.html

Oct 29, 2008 - 4:48 pm 219. venividivici:

Well, your main bone of contention with Ayers as described in this interview is plainly not that he wanted to round up, imprison and murder lots and lots of Americans because of their politics, but that you guys feel he wanted to round up, imprison, and murder the WRONG Americans because of their politics.

Well, you, sir, are apparently incapable of understanding my bone of contention, which is this: Ayers wanted to round up, imprison and murder lots and lots of American WITHOUT HIS ENEMIES WANTING TO DO THE SAME TO HIM. Ayers wanted to “kick off” the cycle of violence. That is what I object to, because that subverts the Constitutional processes this country’s post-Revolutionary political order was founded upon. I believe in game theory’s “tit for tat” strategy. If Ayers supplies the “tit”, I’ll supply the “tat”.

For the love of God, leftists are so frigging stupid it makes me want to puke. If you would have taken your damn head out of your damn ass you would have seen that was my “bone of contention” and, if you are a rational person, agreed with me. Do you consider yourself a rational person? Are you even capable of thinking in non-moral equivalency terms about political action?

VVV: Attempts to turn the country into a version of Venezuela (a country Ayers is known to admire), for example, would legitimately be resisted by any means up to and including violence.
And what would qualify as an “attempt to turn the country into a version of Venezuela? Someone else has already cited obeying UN rules and bringing back the Fairness Doctrine.

Both of those are steps in that direction. Look, go and study the history of Chavez’ movement in Venezuela. Look at the steps he took and is taking. Since all these ideologues read from the same “red” books, Obama’s actions will, with some variation, follow that playbook. Of course, the primary one is the stifling of political discourse hurtful to Obama’s causes. Obviously, we’re talking here and no one is coming to my door because I’m critical of Obama, but if that starts to happen, of course people should resist that violently. We’d be stupid not to. In Joe the Plumber’s case, he might use the courts to go after the woman who searched his records. Should that avenue be blocked in later days (perhaps the courts will be too busy deciding redistribution cases to bother with any boring old invasion of privacy cases), it is completely legitimate to take up arms, I don’t care of Jesus Christ were the President.

I’m quite familiar with history (and James Joyce) thank you. That’s why I’m asking you and other eager apologists for this proposed upcoming military coup specific questions.

I’m not “eager” for it. I’d rather split the country peacefully because it’s obvious to me that both sides don’t speak the same language. Let history decide which ideology is more powerful, parasitic leftism based on identity-politics or individual freedom based on individual responsibility. I for one would love to see a “Berlin Wall” go up where you could live out your wildest socialist redistributionary fantasies. Believe me, I don’t want to deny you what would clearly be near-orgasmic pleasure for you in doing so. Only, I’d like you to do it with your money, not mine.

Oct 29, 2008 - 4:55 pm 220. Donna V.:

Yeah, Christine we’re all going to jump at the chance to read something from a David Duke site. Real “interesting,” I’m sure – if you’re a complete bonehead.

Oct 29, 2008 - 5:59 pm 221. nlcatter:

bush did not conquer

so your vici part is another lie MORON

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:36 pm 222. nlcatter:

i went searching to help out taht a**hole fred
but note even IBD had any statement about communisim in kenya

i wish I could confront that moron in whatever city he lives.

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:42 pm 223. nlcatter:

PAFT – sorry but you didnt put “” around FRED parnoid lies. so I thought it was you.

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:44 pm 224. fred:

paft,

I’m sure we are not permitted on PJM to use the kind of vulgarities you merit being called for that insolent, flip remark you directed at me in that posted one-liner. You know what, you don’t even deserve the good advice I gave you to get the Hooked On Phonics series. You aren’t interested in being able to read correctly and with subtlety. You picked out a few words to hammer on, and you subsist on nothing but a bad faith argument when you distort what I had written.

It is people like you that make me realize that when I totally burned my bridges with the Left after 9/11 I did it for a good reason and I have no regrets about that decision. When I left the Left in 1987 the actually behavior of people on the Left in this country did not play a major role. It had to do with something pertaining to the falsehood of Marxism’s claims. Purely an intellectual, professional matter. But after 9/11 I began to see just how morally decrepit a lot of Leftists are. You are morally and intellectually defective.

I believe vvv pretty much cfbleachers pretty well described what I was doing: a realistic thought-experiment. I threw it out there AS A LAST RESORT which could happen in a dire national crisis. But you Leftists seem to be anxious to project on to what I had written maybe your own worst instincts?

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:44 pm 225. fred:

“bush did not conquer

so your vici part is another lie MORON” by nlclutter

What kind of neural flatulence is this?

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:46 pm 226. Pat J:

If Ayers is such a big bad radical terrorist, why don’t the voters care?

I guess it’s up to the good folks here at Pajamas to educate them right?

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:25 pm 227. paft:

VVV:Well, you, sir, are apparently incapable of understanding my bone of contention, which is this: Ayers wanted to round up, imprison and murder lots and lots of American WITHOUT HIS ENEMIES WANTING TO DO THE SAME TO HIM.

LOL! Like I said — it’s not wholesale political murder you object to — you just want the victims to be people whose politics YOU dislike.

I’ve seen not one shred of evidence that leftists in this country are chomping at the bit to exterminate right wingers. I certainly don’t advocate rounding up the people who disagree with me and cramming them into camps. Nor do any of the many, many liberals and leftists I know. This notion that “they would do it to US if they could” is the standard rationalization for mass murder used by thugs on both the right and the left side of the equation.

VVV: For the love of God, leftists are so frigging stupid it makes me want to puke.

Dear me, you ARE a sensitive plant, aren’t you? So your tummy’s gone all flopsy-wopsy? There, there, calm down. Maybe if you tried breathing into a paper bag for a little while…

VVV: Of course, the primary one is the stifling of political discourse hurtful to Obama’s causes. Obviously, we’re talking here and no one is coming to my door because I’m critical of Obama, but if that starts to happen, of course people should resist that violently.

Has Obama said or done anything at all to indicate such an intention?

VVV:In Joe the Plumber’s case, he might use the courts to go after the woman who searched his records. Should that avenue be blocked in later days (perhaps the courts will be too busy deciding redistribution cases to bother with any boring old invasion of privacy cases), it is completely legitimate to take up arms, I don’t care of Jesus Christ were the President.

Take up arms against who? the woman who searched his records? You seem to be saying here that if a court case doesn’t go as you’d like it to, you’ll grab a gun and start rounding up liberals.

VVV: I’m not “eager” for it.

Both you and Fred seem to be positively slavering over the prospect.

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:53 pm 228. paft:

Fred:

Take some deep breaths.

Drink some warm milk.

Everything’s going to be fine…

Oct 29, 2008 - 7:54 pm 229. Pierre Legrand:

Larry Grathwohl is a pathological liar. If he was such a credible informant and witness, why were NO PERSONS ever arrested or convicted from ANY of his “investigations”???

Hey our courts suck…no doubt about that! Another victim of the lefts attack against America. Larry did break up some attempted murders and that counts for a lot more than anything Barack Hussein has done.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:17 pm 230. Pat J:

I don’t endorse the bombings, the radicalism, or the narcissism Ayers and the Weather Underground Organization was responsible for. But then, I could really care less. Like Obama, I was 8 years old when all of this happened. I didn’t know what was going on then and I could care less 40 years later.

The very idea these radicals wanted to round up 25 million people and make them disappear sounds like bullsh*t. Just like the idea that Obama has some sort of long working relationship with Ayers sounds like bullshit.

Face it folks. You’re watching too much Fox News and listening to too much Rush Limbaugh. It’s clouding your judgment. Put down your Jerome Corsi books and do what’s best for your country and vote for Obama.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:21 pm 231. nlcatter:

fred – thought experiment means you can think

which is beyond your feeble mind.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:51 pm 232. venividivici:

VVV:Well, you, sir, are apparently incapable of understanding my bone of contention, which is this: Ayers wanted to round up, imprison and murder lots and lots of American WITHOUT HIS ENEMIES WANTING TO DO THE SAME TO HIM.

LOL! Like I said — it’s not wholesale political murder you object to — you just want the victims to be people whose politics YOU dislike.

It’s absolutely nothing like what you said. I know that’s a standard rhetorical trick, to say that the other side of the debate has actually proven your point for you, but in this case I was never for one second talking about someone’s “politics” in the vernacular of the language, i.e., someone’s “ideas” or “theories”, I was always talking about someone’s “actions”. So you can get it through your thick skull, I’ll give you the image: If I see someone building the modern-day equivalent of a Japanese internment camp, I’m not going to file a complaint with the local constable. Sheesh, you are thick.

VVV: For the love of God, leftists are so frigging stupid it makes me want to puke.

Dear me, you ARE a sensitive plant, aren’t you? So your tummy’s gone all flopsy-wopsy? There, there, calm down. Maybe if you tried breathing into a paper bag for a little while…

As Nietzsche says, “Even the strongest have their weak hours” and leftism is just that putrid. Puking is actually quite instinctual.

VVV: Of course, the primary one is the stifling of political discourse hurtful to Obama’s causes. Obviously, we’re talking here and no one is coming to my door because I’m critical of Obama, but if that starts to happen, of course people should resist that violently.

Has Obama said or done anything at all to indicate such an intention?

Maybe you’ve forgotten the “Truth Squads” patrolling Missouri, looking for Obama critics who aren’t “telling the truth”? You’re really determined to make this easy for me, aren’t you? I mean, these softball questions are embarrasing to your case. But, if this is the best you’ve got, and I suspect it is, at least I know that I’ve made the right choices in life and developed my analytical skills in the right ways to be able to see through your lame defenses of Obamamania.

VVV:In Joe the Plumber’s case, he might use the courts to go after the woman who searched his records. Should that avenue be blocked in later days (perhaps the courts will be too busy deciding redistribution cases to bother with any boring old invasion of privacy cases), it is completely legitimate to take up arms, I don’t care of Jesus Christ were the President.

Take up arms against who? the woman who searched his records? You seem to be saying here that if a court case doesn’t go as you’d like it to, you’ll grab a gun and start rounding up liberals.

Wow, again, I’m flabbergasted at your incomprehension. I distinctly said that if the courts were inaccessible to petitioners who petitioned as a result of their harassment by state officials and said harassment was occasioned by the petitioner making political statements critical of Obama, then citizens would be in the right to depose the adminstrators of said court, by means of violence if necessary. How you got from that to “if a court case doesn’t go your way, you’re going to round up liberals” is probably directly linked to the relative differences in the power of our minds. Whereas my statement has multiple layers of hypotheticals about access to and justice acquired from the judicial system, your statement is a simplistic binary statement worthy of someone who’s mental development stopped on the elementary school playground.

VVV: I’m not “eager” for it.

Both you and Fred seem to be positively slavering over the prospect.

At most, I’m guilty of having a highly detailed imagination for the possibilities, leavened by many years of graduate school studying history and its drivers. But, yeah, part of me would love for the Ayers’ of the world to make their move, because crushing them would bring an end to at least some of the rancor that pollutes my day-to-day existence. The left is kind of luck a bucking bronco that needs to be broken, so it’ll be useful and not just a pain in the ass.

Oct 29, 2008 - 10:00 pm 233. Cosmos-Liturgy-Sex » This Hack is Our Savior? Where Have all the Mao Tse-tungs Gone?:

[...] More on that in a second. But, first, this scary quotation from a commentor in a thread at the Confederate Yankee weblog (see comment #76): Very soon Barack Obama will be your new President. This is a reality you cannot [...]

Oct 30, 2008 - 12:07 am 234. Thanks for the H/T Pattrico! - A Grym View:

[...] for Obama. I came across “Truth First” when commenting on a Pajamas Media article on Bill Ayers.  I couldn’t believe my eyes of what I was reading. That this history professor would be [...]

Oct 30, 2008 - 10:48 am 235. dkirby - Michigan:

If we all strt now being parents that are involved in their childrens’ schools, starting with kindergarten, we can identify and bring to light any questionable stuff being taught to our kids. If youi wait till they are in High School, it’s too late. by that time they may have been influenced by some nut teacher. The colleges are full of them so they need to be taught right now so they will be armed with a good argument against the nuts.

Oct 30, 2008 - 1:22 pm 236. Tom Crowley:

To the paranoid one sided so called news. O’Reilly where did you find Grathwohl? The guys a snitch so what was his motivation for the interview? How much did you pay him? How much did you guys coach him? I especially enjoyed listening to his comments on the law and education. What an idiot. His opinion is worthless. What paranoid right wing rock do you find these people under? I am no fan of Bill Ayers but he was never convicted of anything. If Gratwohl did not testify in court against Ayers then there must be a reason why he did not. He is a liar. Embrace reality Obama will be president not Gidget and her grandfather. Your show is so slanted and full of half truths and lies. Your show is not fair and balanced.

Oct 30, 2008 - 5:39 pm 237. Mary Ann--Kansas:

Tom Crowley, one might also ask from under which far left rock did you crawl from? Just because Ayers was never convicted doesn’t mean he wasn’t guilty as charged. I believe the case was declared a mistrial because of prosecutorial misconduct. I don’t think Grathwohl ever got the chance to testify. Frankly, your opinions are so slanted and full of half truths that I’m glad you don’t have a national talk show like the fair and balanced O’Reilly Facter.

Oct 30, 2008 - 6:58 pm 238. Erin:

Bill,
I hope that there will be a day that we can go back and put Bill Ayers back in prison. I saw his interview with the Venezuelan President in Nov 2006 and his idea of a world education forum. that is so scary to me.

Oct 30, 2008 - 10:10 pm 239. Erin:

There needs to be a law that if a person is not sorry for his actions and is still planning on terroism like in Ayers speech with Venezuelan President Chavez then they should be put in jail for the rest of their lives without a chance for parole.

Oct 30, 2008 - 10:20 pm 240. Jean:

What is happening to this country? Why is the media protecting a man who has such frightening contacts? If Obama applied for the FBI, he would not pass, yet he can run for the highest office? The only station reporting and not afraid to uncover Obama’s past is FOX, thank you FOX !!! Think about the Orlando station.. they are blackballed.. Plumber Joe is being illegally checked and blackballed for asking a question..There is so much coverup and fraud regarding Obama. Has he been groomed for this over the years, prepared for taking America to the Koolaide? God help us!

Oct 30, 2008 - 10:58 pm 241. Janine:

I agree with Jean – First of all, how is a man like Bill Ayers allowed to still be living? Convicted or not, he obviously had enough behind him to be a threat if he was in jail. Sorry. It has to be said.
Second, HOW IN GOD’S NAME did this country EVER allow a man like Obama to run for president!!! AND WHY are so many AMERICANS supporting him? Because they don’t like the Bush administration? Please – take your heads out of your asses people – wake up! If you vote for Obama, you are supporting radicals. He is a RADICAL. Period. If you want your country to become a communist nation, then move to one – we, the AMERICANS, don’t want you here.

McCain may not be the best choice for a new president, but he is not Bush, and he more importantly DOES NOT and never has assocatiated with TERRORISTS. I certainly feel that Obama’s past connections are enough of a reason for people to wonder what his true intentions are. He will say anything to become president, especially if he has a bigger master plan. We will be destroyed by him. You Obama supporters will all be shitting yourselves for voting for him … just watch!

Oct 31, 2008 - 11:47 am 242. Jeff K:

What is happening to this country? Why is the media protecting a man who has such frightening contacts? If Obama applied for the FBI, he would not pass, yet he can run for the highest office? The only station reporting and not afraid to uncover Obama’s past is FOX, thank you FOX !!! Think about the Orlando station.. they are blackballed.. Plumber Joe is being illegally checked and blackballed for asking a question..There is so much coverup and fraud regarding Obama. Has he been groomed for this over the years, prepared for taking America to the Koolaide? God help us!

agree with Jean – First of all, how is a man like Bill Ayers allowed to still be living? Convicted or not, he obviously had enough behind him to be a threat if he was in jail. Sorry. It has to be said.
Second, HOW IN GOD’S NAME did this country EVER allow a man like Obama to run for president!!! AND WHY are so many AMERICANS supporting him? Because they don’t like the Bush administration? Please – take your heads out of your asses people – wake up! If you vote for Obama, you are supporting radicals. He is a RADICAL. Period. If you want your country to become a communist nation, then move to one – we, the AMERICANS, don’t want you here.

McCain may not be the best choice for a new president, but he is not Bush, and he more importantly DOES NOT and never has assocatiated with TERRORISTS. I certainly feel that Obama’s past connections are enough of a reason for people to wonder what his true intentions are. He will say anything to become president, especially if he has a bigger master plan. We will be destroyed by him. You Obama supporters will all be shitting yourselves for voting for him … just watch!

Janine, Jean,
I see you got your daily email. Keep “catapulting the propaganda”

– K Rove.

Oct 31, 2008 - 1:13 pm 243. More OBAMANATION « StraightTalk with Kathy Weppner:

[...] Should you be concerned about Bill Ayers? [...]

Oct 31, 2008 - 3:58 pm 244. PW:

What was the link to at you tube? It was taken down because it “violated terms of use”.

Oct 31, 2008 - 4:05 pm 245. The Weathermen.. « Centurean2’s Weblog:

[...] Eyewitness to the Ayers Revolution [...]

Nov 1, 2008 - 4:39 am 246. THE MIDNIGHT SUN » Blog Archive » OBAMA, AYERS AND 25 MILLION DISOBEDIENT AMERICANS:

[...] Read the rest of the interview at Pajamas Media. [...]

Nov 1, 2008 - 6:29 am 247. » Blog Archive » How bad could it be?:

[...] rec room to overthrow the Great Satan and bring about the glorious revolution, following which, as Bill Ayers himself has estimated, some 25 million people would necessarily have to be [...]

Nov 1, 2008 - 10:57 am 248. Lindsay Grathwohl:

Thank-you Bob Owens for reporting the truth about my dad.

*** McCain ~ Palin 2008 ***

Nov 4, 2008 - 12:13 pm 249. It’s Funny Friday; I’m Sticking to My Guns and My Religion Edition « Mr. Smith Goes Conservative Blogging:

[...] our own domestic Marxists…excuse me, a community organizer — you know how much those Marxists just love to organize communities — as President of the United States? There is, however, one form of Marxism that I totally [...]

Nov 7, 2008 - 10:26 am 250. The Circle of Love…Mandatory Civil Service Army! YES WE CAN! Better Funded Than The Military! | Pierre Legrand's Pink Flamingo Bar:

[...] a recent interview of the FBI Operative over at PJ Media 1. Pajamas Media: One of the Detroit bombs was to be placed on the side of the DPOA building, and [...]

Nov 13, 2008 - 5:31 am 251. Jane:

Remembering a Sixties Terrorist

By Donna Ron
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, January 04, 2006
I read occasionally of former Weatherman Bill Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn, both now not only accepted, despite their bombing campaign against America in the 1960s and 70s, but successful , establishment educators whose opinions on social issues are taken seriously. Every time I see Ayers’ name I shudder with fear and rage and realize that I will never be able to erase the mark he left on my life one evening 40 years ago.
It was at the Undergraduate Library at the University of Michigan on a Friday night in November 1965. I was a sophomore and was living in a sorority house — Alpha Epsilon Phi. I was walking down the stairs to leave the library. Billy Ayers was standing on the first floor and started talking to me.
I thought he was cute. There seemed to be jovial kind of instant connection between us. As I am writing this now I think he must have noticed me before , boys were attracted to me in those days , and planned to try to pick me up. As we struck up a conversation, Ayers told me very quickly about his leftist activism as if he knew this would intrigue me. In fact, I had made attempts to join SDS and the anti Vietnam War Movement on campus during my freshman year but had been put off by what hustlers the young male “activists” were. They talked in lofty ideological abstractions, but they also used their political sophistication as a lure for young women who wanted to be on the right side of the great social issues of the day. I picked up on that cynicism early and so spent much of my freshman year at Michigan trying to figure out how to act. I was politically idealistic back then and believed in Tikkun Olam — that we had to do something to make the world better.
My freshman year at Michigan I attended the Teach-Ins and the campus demonstrations against the Vietnam War and studied hard for my Chemistry exams once a month. At the same time, I decided to pledge a sorority, partially just to prove I could and partially because young women’s options for campus living arrangements were still quite limited in those years.
Despite the caution I’d learned about young ideologues on the make, I was charmed by Bill Ayers and by his savvy talk of politics and the children’s school he was involved with. He asked me to go to a party with him and I did. I have a vague memory of the house where the party was and the people there. I think he got quite drunk and I suppose I drank too. I remember walking home with him. He was very open about himself and told me he was one of 5 children and that he was from Chicago and that his father was rich.
I felt comfortable with Bill. Throughout my life I had always had a friendly buddy-kind of connection with certain boys and felt that I was developing such a connection with him.
I remember going back to his attic apartment — he describes it in his book Fugitive Days. He had a roommate — a black man who was 23 and married with children. There was a couch, a table, a stereo and a sink in the room. There were two beds – Ayers’ and his roommate’s on each side of the attic wall. I slept with him there.
I came there a few times afterward to talk and to listen to his LPs. I especially loved Glen Yarbough’s album Come Share My Life. I met Bill’s roommate who also worked at the children’s school. I also met Bill’s younger brother Rick. Bill was a year older than I and his brother was a year younger. He spent a lot of time at Bill’s apartment.
Bill Ayers’ apartment was around the corner and a half a block away from the sorority house. The more time I spent there, the more out of place I felt with my sisters. Sometimes I would stop by just to keep from having to go back to a place I had begun to think of as boring. I guess it was one of those evenings — maybe on the way back from the library, maybe just to get out of the sorority house, I don’t remember exactly. What I do recall is that when I was getting ready to leave Ayers told me I couldn’t go until I slept with his roommate and his brother. At this point Bill and I had slept together just once. I was sexually inexperienced, having had only one serious boyfriend with whom I had recently broken up.
At first I thought Ayers was joking. I got up; and went to the door. He moved quickly to block me at the doorway. He locked the door and put the chain on it. I went to the couch and sat down and told him that I had no intention of having sex with his roommate and his brother or him. He said that I had no choice but to do as he said if I wanted to get out of there. He claimed that I wouldn’t sleep with his married roommate because he was black — that I was a bigot. I had gone to school with black kids and had them as friends all my life. I couldn’t believe he was saying that to me
I felt trapped. I had to get out of the situation I was in and because he was so effective a guilt-tripper, I also felt I had to prove to him that I wasn’t a bigot. I got up from the couch and walked over to the black roommate’s bed and put myself on it and he f*cked me. I went totally out of my body. I floated beside myself on the outside and above the bed looking at this black stranger f*ck me angrily while I hated myself.
After that I had to go lie down on Bill Ayer’s bed for his brother to screw me. Rick Ayers was a decent person, unlike his brother, and couldn’t go through with it He started and stopped and let me go. I also thought I had to let Bill screw me but at that point he unbolted the door and I left.
I remember going back to the sorority house and talking to my best girlfriend and telling her what had happened. But there were no words yet to describe it. There was no term “date rape” yet in our political vocabulary. The notion of a psychological rape was not on the table.
I was a mess and felt it was my fault for letting it happen. I was ashamed. Back home at the end of the semester, I got my parents to send me to a psychiatrist. What had happened affected my ability to trust in a relationship with a man and I didn’t have a close relationship again for a long time.
I graduated in 1968 and went to Europe for the summer and came back right before the Democratic Convention. I worked for McCarthy in the Indiana primary. Wherever I went over the next few years, I carried with me the shame and guilt with me. I felt it had been my fault for not putting up more of a struggle against Ayers.
I started a PhD program in clinical psych at Yeshiva University in 1969. I was also working part time for a branch of the University of Chicago Institute for Social Research which was in the same building. I was there in a room with other employees one day sitting around a big table and coding questionnaires for a research study on Head Start when we heard a huge explosion. Soon after we discovered that it was a bomb that went off in the brown stone on 10th street which killed three buddies of Bill Ayers, who was now one of the leaders of the WeatherUnderground, a terrorist cult. One of the victims was Diana Oughton, his girlfriend at the time. I had known her: a kind soul who had worked at the Fresh Air Camp for troubled kids before she got mixed up with ever so persuasive Bill and the other Weatherman terrorists. When I found out she had been blown up, I thought how like him to send his girlfriend to make the bomb rather than do it himself.
I eventually moved to Israel, married and had a family. But for a long time I felt as if I existed in a time warp in relation to events in the US that were a continuation of the 1960s. In 1994 I returned to the States for my 30-year Mumford High School reunion. I was in NYC visiting a friend and asked about the Weathermen. He told me that Billy and Bernardine Dohrn had come up from the underground and resumed middle class life—including the radical politics—without being prosecuted for their crimes.
Later I read about Ayers and his book Fugitive Days on the Internet. This was just after the terrorist attack on 9/11 and he was entirely unrepentant for having been a terrorist himself. “I would do it again,” he told the Times when he was asked about having set a bomb in the Pentagon. I also discovered that he was a Distinguished Professor of Education at University of Illinois Chicago campus. I think that freaked me out more than anything. That a man so cruel and conscienceless could attain such a position enraged me. I contacted him by email through the University’s website. He wrote back that he didn’t remember me.
I was in Detroit in November 2001 and bought his memoir at Book Beat at Lincoln Plaza in Oak Park. I looked to see if there was some hint in it of what had become the defining event of my life. Nothing. But why should he remember me if he has convinced the world to forget, or is it forgive — that he set out to launch a bombing campaign to blow up America?

Jan 16, 2009 - 6:13 pm 252. Observational TheraPist » Blog Archive » Up Against the Wall….:

[...] And they were dead serious. From: Eyewitness to the Ayers Revolution [...]

Jun 2, 2009 - 3:57 am 253. Death Panels An Interview With President Obama – NYTimes.com | Pierre Legrand's Pink Flamingo Bar:

[...] when this was said: (thank you to Bob Owens from Confederate Yankee for a terrific article and to Pajama Media for hosting it!) I asked, Well what is going to happen to those people we can’t reeducate, that [...]

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:43 pm

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