Pajamas Media

41 Comments

1. Nahanni:

This is just their way of getting all those pesky poor people to move out of South Central so they can gentrify it with upscale condos and trendy shopping areas like what has happened in so many cities. The city of Los Angeles needs more money then they can get in taxes from all those unsightly “obese” poor people that currently reside in SC so they can afford to pay for all those illegals that they are supporting.

Aug 13, 2008 - 8:20 am 2. jerry:

The Democrats/Liberals claim to “pro-choice.” But it seems that the only choice they allow is abortion choice. They are anti-choice in diet, housing, education, transportation and medicine other then abortion. The Democrats/Liberals are anti-choice.

And before some wise lib comes in to scream about how much obesity costs the government and that give “society” the right to limit dietary choice I would like to point out that there are many lifestyle choices that cost the government billions of dollars. AIDS has imposed a huge cost on the medical system. I haven’t seen too many of the same liberals crying out for government regulation of homosexual activity. Liberals seemed to be only concerned about regulating lifestyle when it isn’t theirs.

Aug 13, 2008 - 8:22 am 3. david levavi:

Eric Gioia is a horse’s ass. So is his boss Mike Moneybags Bloomberg who bought City Hall for pocket change and now has plans to buy the State House.

Hizzoner knows nothing about governance and everything about government intrusion into citizens’ private lives. This money-grubber with no imagination and the personality of a gerbil seems to think he was elected New York Surgeon General rather than mayor.

The outrageous presumption of liberal anal wipes like Gioia and Bloomberg is that they know better than we do what’s best for us. I don’t know which liberal fantasy is more absurd and offensive–that liberals are especially bright or that the rest of us are especially dim.

Not only does Mayor Moneybags dig into New Yorkers’ pockets with a variety of backdoor taxes, he insist on his right to determine how we spend what’s left. The operatve plan seems to be that the longer we live, the more tax revenue can be sweated out of us.

Bloomberg has done nothing for NYC but manage improvements put into place by Giuliani. Every major initiative he has put forward has been shot down, thank God. I look forward to the day hizzoner chokes on a multivitamin.

Aug 13, 2008 - 9:27 am 4. goy:

And just wait until the government elects itself sole arbiter and guarantor of your health care…

All of the socialist medical welfare systems now under consideration involve a shift in real control over the most fundamental aspects of our lives.*** Once the government is funding your health care – that is, forcing about 93M American taxpayers to foot the bill for the care of all 300+M, plus immigrants, plus illegal aliens – do you think they’ll think twice about directly governing ANY aspect of your life they deem detrimental to their “ability” to keep you healthy?

You think we have “we-know-what’s-good-for-you” laws now? You ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.

On one coast – in MA – we have a two-year-old pilot health plan that has already exceeded its original projected costs by some 85% (no, not 8.5%). That plan is of course being trumpeted as a “successful” model for the nation. Obama has included at least one aspect of this scam in his proposed national plan: statutory obligation for employer contributions. This will transform coverage from an at-will employee benefit to a federally mandated entitlement: just as it has already done in MA.

On the other coast – in CA – we have the situation accurately described above by Mike Shelton.

The fact that BOTH of these fiascos were presided over by so-called “Republican” Governors should be telling Americans something. But they’re not listening, apparently. They prefer to be distracted instead by partisan bickering and electoral sideshows, as if the past 10 years haven’t demonstrated the almost comical interchangeability between any two politicians taken from either side of the aisle.

These un-American scenarios are considered as models for national implementation – not because they’re working or because they’re in any way rational, but because they exemplify how to get away with subverting the Constitution through deceit, misdirection and doublethink. This, of course, is any government’s most fundamental tendency when the People sleep through the process: to constantly assign more power to itself.

Better wake up soon or one day we won’t be able to wake up at all. Mandatory soma for all is no doubt right down the road.

(*** Coincidentally, all of these socialist plans completely ignore the real source of the health care “crisis”: the relentless, open-loop increase in commodity health care costs that is inherent in the application of comprehensive health care insurance, whether it’s administered by a for-profit company or by the state.

So even after we’ve handed over control of our health and well-being to the government, we still won’t have addressed the cause of the problem.)

Aug 13, 2008 - 9:47 am 5. Maurice Sonnenwirth:

Why don’t they clean out the shelves in the grocery stores, and for that matter, the 7-11’s etc, of all chips, dips, fats, snacks, packaged-anything-with-salt-fat-MSG-transfats-sugar-High Fructose corn syrup or baked goods with same?

Let the grocery stores just whittle down to fruits and veggies and NOTHING ELSE!

I do chose to try to eat nutritionally better foods without too much of the bad stuff listed above, but DAMN it’s nice to have choices!

The same folks yelling against the war on Iraq don’t care if our own government wages war on our freedoms. It’s pure totalitarianism they are after, Soviet-style socialism and control, and if these freaks continue to get their way, what freedoms we have left will be mere memories in a few years.

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:18 am 6. JIM FLANAGAN:

Good luck with the sit-down restaurants in South LA! Any waiter/waitress–including those of color– will tell you that African-Americans on average are notoriously bad tippers. Food servers get well below the mimimum wage and depend on tips to put food on their own tables. Any restaurant considering a move into this area will will probably have a very hard time staffing with experienced, reliable help.

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:22 am 7. BackwardsBoy:

It seems the solution to this problem is for us to stop electing socialist control-freaks into office.

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:27 am 8. pch1013:

“Why haven’t these restaurants already located in this area of half a million people? One would imagine they could count the numbers, locate available land, and gauge interest in their menus.”

Or maybe they just can’t compete with huge multinational corporations who can easily afford to carry a loss at a few of their stores. An independent business owner doesn’t have that luxury, especially in an area where potential profit margins are so slim to begin with.

It’s not about “socialism” — it’s about leveling the playing field and reducing obstacles for local businesses who, unlike Big Food, actually have a stake in the local community. As such, this is a fundamentally *conservative* idea, because isn’t Main Street USA part of what we collectively pine for? And on Main Street USA, there aren’t very many McDonalds restaurants. Instead, it is lined with local businesses owned by local merchants who, instead of sourcing their materials from, and sending their profits to, far-away corporate offices, will plow their revenues right back into the local economy.

Relying on McDonalds and Yum! Brands as a long-term economic redevelopment strategy is not a recipe for success. Encouraging local people to go into business for themselves just might be.

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:35 am 9. Daerken D Duck:

”You Have A Duty To Be Healthy. Health Is Not A Private Matter. Your Body Belongs To The State.” – the Hitler Youth No smoking pledge

Aug 13, 2008 - 11:03 am 10. pch1013:

“”You Have A Duty To Keep Your Baby. Abortion Is Not A Private Matter. Your Uterus Belongs To The State.” – the Pro-Life pledge”

There, I fixed it for you.

Aug 13, 2008 - 11:27 am 11. david levavi:

Goy:
Right on shaigetz. What’s important is for all of us to get past foaming at the mouth anger and frustration and see what can be done to stop these wonkish do-gooders from ruining our lives and the lives of our children.

In MA it’s health care. In New York, once known as the city that never sleeps, we have a mayor who takes his pills with soy milk and goes to sleep at eight. Ray Charles’ or Billy Joel’s New York State of Mind is alien to hizzoner.

That sold by wealthy, ambitious, socialists today as prudence and health was once sold as prudence and religion. The goods for sale, then as now, is Temperance.

If we all take care to maintain ourselves in optimal health, we can afford universal health coverage. Don’t we owe it to ourselves as well as to all Americans?

Aint it the righteous and patriotic thing to do? Can’t we all get along? So goes the seamless logic of the high-minded.

Those who support healthy humanity by government fiat genuinely believe in their cause. The utterly corrupt schnorrer we have for mayor here in NYC genuinely believes himself righteous.

Bloomers has never celebrated or sulked in a bar but sheesh willikers, he won’t have anyone sickened by second-hand smoke inhaled there. He wouldn’t think of eating fast food but by golly, he’ll see that no underprivileged New Yorker is poisoned by transfats. He doesn’t sit anywhere in a car but behind the chauffeur and couldn’t imagine why anyone would enjoy driving, but he has no end of ideas about midtown tolls and mass transportation which he never uses.

Superwealthy liberal politicians are America’s handcart too socialist hell.

Aug 13, 2008 - 12:30 pm 12. mike:

Anyone who says “this is about leveling the playing field” for mom and pop stores isn’t paying attention. This is not about helping smaller business. LA isn’t interested. Any big fish or vegetarian restaurant could move in if it wants to. Why is it hard to believe what is in the community is what the community wants? Just because your fascist nutritionists don’t like it is irrelevant.

Aug 13, 2008 - 12:43 pm 13. pch1013:

“Superwealthy liberal politicians are America’s handcart too socialist hell.”

Could you remind us again who embarked upon the Disneyfication of New York in the name of “quality of life”? (Hint: He was, for a brief time, a Republican candidate for President.)

Aug 13, 2008 - 12:48 pm 14. jerry:

Heah pch:

If big food is not working in the nation’s interests then shouldn’t we nationalize them and run them for the benefit of the public?

Aug 13, 2008 - 1:19 pm 15. pch1013:

“Why is it hard to believe what is in the community is what the community wants?”

Because corporations do not base business decisions on what the community wants — they base them on the bottom line. And if this means putting a couple of money-losing KFCs within a few blocks of each other, with a view toward developing a loyal customer base for their brand, then that’s what they’ll do. Whether the local community actually wants those two KFCs is irrelevant. But they will patronize them anyway, because they have no other choice.

Here’s something else for you to chew on:

A recent Los Angeles Times survey found that 46 percent of restaurants [in South-Central] are fast-food chains, compared with 12 percent on the west side of Los Angeles.

@jerry: Do you believe that small, locally-owned businesses are good for communities? If so, then shouldn’t you support this measure?

Aug 13, 2008 - 2:47 pm 16. david levavi:

PCH(Pacific Coast Highway?)1013:

Giuliani’s quality of life initiative much improved my neighborhood in NYC. Maybe it didn’t yours.

Disneyfication suggests plastic. Artificial. Fantastic. Maybe that’s what happened to your New York Under Giuliani, PCH. It didn’t happen to mine.

The broken-windows-anti-petty-crime campaign worked. Auto theft and break-ins were no longer an everyday fact of life. The streets were safer and cleaner. The parks were safe and well tended after many years of neglect.

I speak as a New Yorker who in previous years had his apartment boken into once, his loft broken into twice, two cars stolen and trunks and interiors of cars rifled innumerable times. And oh yes, did I mention my wife my daughter and I getting mugged and robbed with pistols to our heads?

So what means Disneyfication PCH? Some complained that the Mayor had declared open season on Black people. But quality of life for law abiding people, Black and White, was much improved.

Giuliani’s hand remains everywhere evident in the city. Walk down any street and look for the signs in car windows ubiquitous before Giuliani: No Radio. No valuables. Please leave it alone.

New Yorkers no longer beg dispensation from criminals. That’s a major quality of life improvement in my book. Hats off to Rudy.

Aug 13, 2008 - 3:34 pm 17. njcommuter:

Trans fats appear to be a special case.

First, not all trans fats are harmful. One, vaccenic acid, is known to improve the HDL/LDL ratio. Naturally occurring trans fats (such as occur in beef fat) should not be included in the debate.

Artificially produced trans fats (excluding those that are chemically identical to natural ones) are another matter. It makes sense to treat them as food additives, since they are created by human art and only go back about a hundred years. If the trans fats in question were invented today, would we allow them as food additives? And if we did, would we allow them to be as heavily used as they are?

If the answer is “no”, then you should rethink your objections, and seek instead to have the laws limited to artifically produced substances that are trans fats.

Aug 13, 2008 - 3:41 pm 18. P. Ami:

“Could you remind us again who embarked upon the Disneyfication of New York in the name of “quality of life”?”

— I didn’t realize that cleaning up the broken down, crime ridden, center of Manhattan was a Disneyfication of New York. It appears you don’t agree with the legal system actually catching and prosecuting criminals. Or maybe what you don’t like is providing incentives for businesses to enter what was a depressed and ugly part of NYC. Do you seriously prefer the old Times Square to the new one?

“Whether the local community actually wants those two KFCs is irrelevant. But they will patronize them anyway, because they have no other choice.”

— They have another choice. Its called eating at home.

“A recent Los Angeles Times survey found that 46 percent of restaurants [in South-Central] are fast-food chains, compared with 12 percent on the west side of Los Angeles.”

— Have you noticed the difference in prices between what you get at a fast-food restaurant and what you get at one a locally owned? BTW, I see plenty of options for eating besides the corporate fast food joints in SCLA. There are some very popular Mexican restaurants, locally owned and operated, which, BTW, use trans-fats in their cooking. Its not just about shutting down corporate fast food joints.

“It’s not about “socialism” — it’s about leveling the playing field field and reducing obstacles for local businesses”

— Leveling the playing field is Socialism. You put obstacles in the way of the established members of a society so that the underclass has a chance to bring them down to their level. Some use bullets and others use affirmative action. It has the same goal and the same result, mediocrity.

Aug 13, 2008 - 3:43 pm 19. pch1013:

“You put obstacles in the way of the established members of a society so that the underclass has a chance to bring them down to their level.”

Somehow I think McDonald’s and Yum! will survive.

Aug 13, 2008 - 3:56 pm 20. P. Ami:

You avoid the point. It’s socialism.

Aug 13, 2008 - 5:39 pm 21. Anonymous:

PCH:

Imposing your preferences is not the way to support small businesses. That’s all you are doing. McDonalds and other fast food restaurants are locally run franchises.

At best you are snob at worst you are would be dictator.

Aug 13, 2008 - 7:10 pm 22. Gregory:

What pcg1013 and some others who hold similar opinions forget is that if you truly want to level the playing field, then you need only understand one statement;

Equal Opportunity/Access, Not Equal Outcome!

Think about Nadal/Federer for a bit, the time before Nadal decided to up his game. Nadal was King of Clay, but Federer could whup him on any other surface. But in tennis, to provide equal opportunity, the players swap sides, so that both have the same playing conditions. What they did NOT do is to force Nadal to wear 50lb dumbbells so that Federer could beat him on clay, and vice versa.

Let the marketplace decide; it’s our choice to kill ourselves with bad food, as long as we don’t bring others down with us. And anyways, where’s the proof?

Aug 13, 2008 - 7:24 pm 23. Eric:

“A recent Los Angeles Times survey found that 46 percent of restaurants [in South-Central] are fast-food chains, compared with 12 percent on the west side of Los Angeles.”

pch1013 – all this statistic demonstrates is that the people on the West side either have more restaurants in total (equal number of fast food but far more traditional restaurants) or that they simply choose to eat better more often. To suggest that poor people eat poorly because their choices are limited is infantilizing them, a common Liberal tactic.
I’m willing to bet that this piece of nanny state socialism will have absolutely zero impact on the eating habits of the people in the no build zone. None, nada, zip, zilch, zeroooooooooooo.

And as has been written already, just wait until the socialists manage to force government health care on us. Liberals always whine “keep the government out of the bedroom”. Well, good luck. When universal health care is a reality expect the government to be in every room of the house.

Unfortunately for we Conservatives there are no empty frontiers left for us to escape to. Are we about to be enslaved by our own government? The slim majority having voted for socialists to rob from the slim minority, because after all, envy and rejection of personal responsibility is what drives Democrat voters.

Aug 13, 2008 - 8:25 pm 24. JKB:

PCH1013,
Before you profess on the evils of “big food” perhaps you should look up the concept of franchise. Franchises of national brands are usually locally owned and operated. McDonalds has made many successful local businesspeople with franchises. It will be the local businessperson and their local employees who suffer.

This has nothing to do with “leveling the playing field” for locally-owned sit-down restaurants. If that was the goal, then a much more effective action would be to offer tax breaks and incentives to such buisnesses. Like they do for big corporations to local factories and plants in the city. Something tangible that would impact the ability of such restaurants to remain going concerns. You know they could have used the money they are going to subsidize the current fast-food adversely affected by this ordinance to promote the sit-down restaurants, instead now LA is going to be paying “big food” to continue to operate stores in South LA. Nice.

No, this effort is about saving the poor souls of South LA from sins in burgers, fries, fried chicken, and pizza. I suppose next they’ll pull the frozen pizza, Swanson dinners and hot pockets from the grocery stores.

Aug 13, 2008 - 9:27 pm 25. cedarford:

The problem is the decay of families and attendent dysfunctionalisms of the black inner city just get worse and worse while our uncritical media spreads black underclass values to latinos and lower class whites.

And at a certain point, society is compelled to favor order and fixing things over “individual freedom to be all the dissolute welfare mammy or gangsta tough a person can be.”

That means Hartford, CT after 2 months of black gang war just imposed a curfew.
LA is seeing Asians, whites, and especially Latins working to ethnically cleanse blacks to get safer neighborhoods.
In DC, police are now setting up Baghdad-style traffic barriers and checkpoints allowing evening admission to certain areas only by residents, homeowners, and people who can prove they work or have business there.
From Miami to Las Vegas to Seattle, people are trading “freedom” for gated communities. And paying a premium to do so.

LA imposed restrictions of fast food to cut down on the taxpayer burden of medical care for corpulent ghetto people?

BFD.

And, as for health care, only the US, of all advanced countries, has the disgrace of 1/6th of working Americans w/o health insurance r regular access to medical and dental care – while welfare folks, illegals, and prisoners are subsidized by the rest of us. Only the US has the disgrace of a million medical bankruptcies and a slow slide to the bottom 1/5th of advanced nations in terms of life expectancy and general fitness of it’s population.
Adding to the disgrace, Americans pay 25% to 60% more per capita than any other advanced nation for that poor overall medical care, while 1/6th of our working population and their families are left in danger of financial wipeout from a single accident or condition – which encourages those people to spend what they make, and not have a single asset that hospital bill collectors and lawyers can take away.

Capitalism has failed to make for a cheaper, more efficient and accessible medical care system. Health insurance is up 44% in cost in the Bush years, making it more unaffordable to private self-employed workers and group employee insurance plans, and it kills our exports because health care costs in America are built into each product or service we try to sell internationally.

Since capitalism failed to make a rational, efficient system given human nature and a moral commitment not to euthanize Alzheimer veggies or leave poor kids to die of common ailments – we need a sensible health insurance system that all can afford to be in, and aggressive cost-cutting of overhead like the French, Germans, and Japanese have imposed as they boost life expectancy.

In that sense, what Romney and Schwarzenegger have done is solid leadership on reforming health care and poor nutrition in ghettos by people that can’t care for themselves in a system of pure “capitalist freedom”.

I suppose you could throw Mitt and Arnie and Huck, and all the social order & compassionate care evangelicals out of the Party and just make the Republicans a movement supported by 10% of the country. Meaning the wealthy Corporatists and those with fealty to the fatcats.

Aug 14, 2008 - 12:41 am 26. lee:

Cedarford is out of his dang mind. I’m an Asian living in LA. If anything else, blacks and Latinos murder each other and “ethnically” cleanse other minorities than Asian and other immigrants.

The government has no business telling legimite businesses not to expand or renovate out of some obesity issues. I’ll reluctantly accept public display of caloric content on foods and banning transfats, (I prefer the public to make informed decisions) but there’s a line that must not be crossed.

Aug 14, 2008 - 2:42 am 27. Mike:

As if further proof of the rise of the nanny state were needed, in the UK a government advisor claims obesity is a bigger threat than terrorism:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7559420.stm

Personally I’d rather be in a subway carriage with 20 fat people than with 20 Arab-looking types wearing backpacks.

Aug 14, 2008 - 3:11 am 28. hp:

the world is mad, i tell you.

mad.

mad that control freaks are seemingly having their way at an exponentially increasing rate of speed.

time to pull out the civil rights, folks, and see how to play them to one’s bennie to put the freakie deakies at bay. :-\

where they get away with controlling the lives of others, regular organized eat-ins are a must-do. complete with permits for assembly for the public record if necessary.

don’t tread on MY whopper, man.

Aug 14, 2008 - 4:14 am 29. dismayed at pm:

What kind of sociopaths write for Pajamas Media? Your site and the article are pure propaganda drivel.

Aug 14, 2008 - 4:33 am 30. pch1013:

“I’m willing to bet that this piece of nanny state socialism will have absolutely zero impact on the eating habits of the people in the no build zone.”

Maybe not. This is just a temporary experiment; if it fails, then everything goes back to the status quo.

However, there are plenty of instances where “nanny state socialism” has indubitably worked. Tobacco, for example. The percentage of Americans who smoke is much lower now than it was 45 years ago, when the Surgeon General first recommended against it. Can any reasonable person argue that having fewer Americans are smoking, and thus dying of smoking-related diseases, is a good thing? Or would we be better off going back to the good old days, with cigarette commercials on TV and the whole (trans-fat-laden) enchilada?

And I say this as a smoker, and as someone who enjoys a fast-food meal once in a while. But I’m fortunate enough to enjoy mobility and easy access to a wide variety of food purveyors. Some people in South-Central do not, perhaps because they don’t have cars and have to rely on a decrepit, dangerous bus system and consequently “choose” to patronize those ubiquitous fast-food restaurants.

And another thing: The government, which already pays a large share of health costs for low-income residents like those in South-Central LA, has a legitimate financial interest in reducing unhealthy behaviors. It’s all well and good to shrug your shoulders and say, “so what if people want to eat nothing but cheeseburgers?” but unless all those people with unhealthy eating habits somehow gain access to privately-funded health care, then whether you like it or not, they are a government issue.

Aug 14, 2008 - 10:07 am 31. urbanleftbehind:

LA County should just tax the crap out of these places, @ 20% in SCLA, rather than put a moratorium. Then Mickey Ds would stop being the daily meal and revert back to its once-a-month delicacy that it used to be for many moderate and middle income people in th 60s and 70s. In Cook County, IL we just upped our sales tax to 10.25%, in part to keep the health care system affloat (we still have more black indigent than illegal indigent, BTW). My approach would have been to have a variable sales tax, ranging from 15% to 5%, based on each ZIP code’s share of county clinic and hospital utilization.

Also, at least here in IL, calling cards aimed at Latin American locales are UNTAXED!!!! My god, they are missing out on a gold mine.

Aug 14, 2008 - 11:49 am 32. cubanbob:

First thing we need to do is kill the socialist.
The arogance of dictating to people what they can or cannot eat. Or tax the hell of what they eat.

People should be able to live their lifes as they see fit as long as the harm they do is only to themselves. Smoke if you wish, just not on my property. Eat what you want. In the end it doesn’t make much of a difference. The pension costs of the long term rightous eater will vastly exceed the health care cost of the food sinners. What ever happened to the Constitution, the rule of law and the prevention of tyranny by either the majority or a minority?

Aug 14, 2008 - 4:32 pm 33. Javelin:

If they are really concerned about obesity, stop providing school busses for school kidsand cab vouchers for the Medicaid people and get them to walk. This would be a win win, cause it will cut taxes and nanny statism too.

Aug 14, 2008 - 7:46 pm 34. goy:

- In that sense, what Romney and Schwarzenegger have done is solid leadership on reforming health care…

Pure horse manure.

Romney’s passage of the MA Health Care is Now an Entitlement Act, which he claimed to have done grudgingly IIRC (big deal), is by no stretch leadership on reforming health care. Absolutely the opposite.

A statutory obligation to purchase health care insurance does nothing to reform health care. The two are not the same.

Comprehensive health care insurance has been driving prices of health care higher at rates far exceeding inflation for over 30 years now. The ONLY way health care is ever going to be affordable again – as it was back when people used to pay out-of-pocket for all but the most serious health issues – is through legislation eliminating the comprehensive health care insurance scam in the U.S., and barring direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription medications (which inflates the demand far beyond the actual need). Over a transition period, commodity economics will drive the costs of quotidian care back in line with other goods and services, and catastrophic insurance plans can be administered via the same authority to which you (or your landlord) pay property taxes, leveraging huge actuarial group sizes.

This idiotic notion that our only option is to hand a corrupt system over to a government that NO ONE trusts to do anything else right – just so that it can be corrupted further and concentrate trillions of dollars into the hands of a few – is pure insanity, not “leadership”.

Aug 14, 2008 - 7:49 pm 35. Thalpy:

Jerry, BackwardsBoy, and others offer outstanding comments. This ban on new restaurants and expansion or remodeling is what socialist nitwits do. Stop voting for them! For test purposes, set up a few fast food restaurants as part of an established church outreach ministry, then dare the LA City Council to come after them.

Aug 14, 2008 - 8:08 pm 36. P. Ami:

“The government, which already pays a large share of health costs for low-income residents like those in South-Central LA, has a legitimate financial interest in reducing unhealthy behaviors.”

— Out of the mouths of babes. This precise sentiment is the breaking point of liberty. When the government takes over health care then it has taken the right to tell you how to care of yourself; what meds to take (psychological as well), what food to eat, how and when to exercise, etc… This, perhaps more then any other reason, is why universal health care is specifically a bad idea and suggests yet again how it is that socialist programs are illiberal.

Aug 15, 2008 - 1:04 am 37. goy:

P.Ami – precisely! See my very first post up above.

I find it not a little bit discouraging – what am I saying…!? lately this has begun to border on terrifying – that so few libertarian and conservative Americans seem to comprehend the simple outcome you’ve concisely described. Because if they do, they’re not putting much effort into making the point.

I also find it amazing that so few capitalists understand how comprehensive health care insurance has driven the cost of most day-to-day health care to a level where almost no one thinks they can afford it without insurance any more. This notion that health care is not even possible without insurance is taken so completely for granted that it seems no longer even possible for the public – let alone anyone in government – to think outside that box: health care and the insurance that pays for it are one-and-the-same in the minds of most Americans. This is possibly the greatest marketing success in U.S. history, since it is hardly the truth.

Pro-business folks who on other topics usually make perfect sense (yes, like you Glenn) have lost sight of reality on this particular issue I’m afraid. That selective blindness facilitates an outcome (i.e., skyrocketing health care costs) that plays right into the hands of the socialists’ strong suit (i.e., their ability to side-step logic and reason, and manipulate the voting masses at an emotional level).

Health care insurance companies and the relentless price increases they promote are causing irreparable damage to our economy. Direct-to-consumer marketing of prescription medications has driven the demand for those drugs way, way beyond the actual need for those drugs. These things are only possible because consumers are barred from closing the loop on price – both for health care goods and services AND the cost of the insurance they think they have to have to pay for them.

“Progressive” elites want control of health care insurance for two reasons: it gives them control over the trillions of dollars that would flow through such a system; it provides an unprecedented degree of control over those insured by the system and will ultimately provide a similarly unprecedented degree of control over health care providers (something THEY obviously haven’t yet realized either).

At its core, the government’s attraction to any socialist medical welfare system is no different than the attraction to the “carbon credits” scam run by the U.N. or the “cap-and-trade” scam Obama wants to foist onto American businesses.

Always. Follow. The. Money.

Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.

Aug 15, 2008 - 5:42 am 38. SGT Ted:

The government, which already pays a large share of health costs for low-income residents like those in South-Central LA, has a legitimate financial interest in reducing unhealthy behaviors.

This is fascist thinking and bigoted. Poor people don’t deserve to be treated as children. They are adults and they have freewill. Where do you get off telling total strangers what to eat? Elitist garbage.

Tell me, do you think that Homosexual adults should have their lifestyles regulated because of the high medical costs of AIDS/HIV?

Aug 15, 2008 - 9:17 am 39. HeatherRadish:

fewer Americans are … dying of smoking-related diseases

Prove that. I don’t think you can.

Aug 15, 2008 - 12:46 pm 40. Javelin:

To put some perspective on this, wealthy areas have been using zoning ordinances and health regs for decades to control and limit fast food places. Fast food places are the ugly but useful step daughters of american food.

Aug 15, 2008 - 12:47 pm 41. Jesus Warrior:

Responsibilty at sometime have to be a personal decision. It is not the government place to prohibit anything used properly to substain life. Instead of the elimination of life choices in abortion and homosexuality, why not educate about the cost of health choices. Fastfood, vegetables, fish, red meat, white meat, grains, starches, proteins, can all have a place in a healthy diet along with diary products, water and liquids. A diet of one of anything is destructive to ones health. A society with all homosexuals would end all society, but a society with all couples of one man one woman would create a healthier society and procreation.

Aug 29, 2008 - 7:28 am

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