Pajamas Media

160 Comments

1. HLH:

Yes, it is about time that conservatives fought back. I never dreamed that Obama’s election would help conservatives find their voice, but it did and they have.

Aug 23, 2009 - 2:51 am 2. David W. Lincoln:

There has been more than sufficient time to see the short comings of those who follow in the footsteps of SDS. Needles to say, the pendulum is swinging in the other direction to dislodge from their perchs of privilege, those who frankly do not deserve power.

Aug 23, 2009 - 2:53 am 3. vivo:

“Grassroots conservatism has finally fielded a group of freedom fighters, and it’s about time.”

FreedomWorks, Dick Armey, Rick Santelli, General Electric, General Motors, Verizon, SBC/AT&T, Koch family, John Birch Society, Howard Ahmanson, Tom Monaghan, Rev. Moon and the DeVos family.

“Indeed. This is, at its core, yet another battle in an unspoken class war. A group of Americans have unwittingly been conscripted into service for the wealthy establishment that oppresses the poor and robs the middle class. Don’t believe me? Just look at the past eight years under Bush. The past is prologue.”

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:39 am 4. Increase Mather:

What is SO great about these protests…is watching the mainstream media, long champions of protesters on the Left trying to explain this away.

George Stepawhatshisface, the new guy on Meet The Press, and CBS, CNN…are just flustered. Their inclination is to disregard the movement…but they can’t shut it all out…it’s making news.

Just watch what’s left of their credibility melt away.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:40 am 5. Anonymous:

Speaking of people fighting back, check out this Marine at a town hall meeting with Congressman Brian “Brown shirts” Baird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRE5UK6NQU

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:51 am 6. LeighB:

What has been delightful to see in this summer’s rallies is the fervor of the protestors vs. the “protectors”. If the latter weren’t paid to attend, would they?

What will sink the Obama presidency is his belief that it is always all about him. He’ll have to keep paying people to show up to represent his interests as long as he doesn’t find a way to make it about them.

And a (rhetorical) question for those who are paid to post here, would your comments be different if we were hearing from you (you the individual vs. you the employee)?

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:57 am 7. BC:

Yeah, I can totally see the conservatives marching en masse and chanting stuff like:
1, 2, What do we say?
Soaring health costs have got to stay!
3, 4, What do we want?
Media coverage while we taunt!

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:59 am 8. cedarhill:

Yep! And let the moderates, well, moderate. We’ll get back to them sometime. They’ll be real easy to spot inside their big ‘ol empty tent as they whine about life.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:11 am 9. Sapwolf:

The sleeper has awakened.

I now eat, think, sleep, breath politics as a libertarian/conservative.

It is more important now than work.

I will be in the heightened state of alert/action for the rest of my life.

Thanks to Sarah Palin and the Tea Party Movement.

This is now “what I do”.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:11 am 10. Spinoneone:

The political elites on both sides fear the people more than they fear their peers. The problem for us, the people, is that our politicians are more interested in retaining personal and political power than they are in serving those who elect them. Remember, all you need to secure a lifetime pension equal to your last year’s salary is ONE term in the House or Senate. Unfortunately, John Bohener and Barney Frank may be on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but they are on the same side of the “pay for power” structure. The French revolution left heads on pikes, but, at the end of the day, just changed the players. The average Frenchman in 1820, after the revolution and Napoleon, wasn’t remarkably better off than his grandfather in 1780.

We need a strong, articulate, passionate voice for the people. That voice needs to be just as willing to take on the patricians in the GOP as he/she does to take on the Dems. One of the most important segments of the populace that needs to be won is the caring, nurturing woman, the one with two kids, an SUV, and the thought that she should care for the world. The socialist chimera of “fixing the world’s and the nation’s problems through equality” resonates with her. She doesn’t see the fallacy that wealth can be redistributed equitably – only power truly is redistributed to those who would “fix” the world. She thinks the Constitution’s “equality” clause should mean equality of result. She doesn’t understand that it means equality of opportunity; the Founders knew that it could never give equality of result. So let’s go find that voice. It might be Sarah Palin, and it may be someone yet to be discovered. In any event, “let’s roll!”

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:14 am 11. steve:

We must continue to fight Obamcare even if it passes.

This would be the end of our country and of our liberty and privacy. So God forbid it does pass then we must have states that are willing to say NO, shove your Obamcare. WE don’t want and we won’t take this unconstitutional ergo illegal power grab. We will not become a nation of serfs to these slimy politicians.

We are going to have to take to the streets and if necessary call on our National Guard units to protect us from these lawless politicians.

Our military although infested with Left wing officers in high positions is still on our side in large numbers. The have sworn to defend our Constitution (not the President) against all enemies DOMESTIC or foreign. They may have to do just that because this can not be accepted and must be fought until our freedom and victory over these political tyrants is secured.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:19 am 12. TennesseeVolunteer:

5,6,7,8 Stop Obama before it’s too late!
9, 10, 11, 12 Put the libs back on the shelf!

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:27 am 13. Joe:

I imagine this is only the beginning. We, the people, have finally figured out that politicians don’t have the right to jam things down our throats just because this is what they want. People are beginning to see all of this for what it really is and they don’t like it. The grassroots are on fire!!

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:27 am 14. elvis:

I love to watch the weeping an gnashing of teeth on the left!

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:27 am 15. HalifaxCB:

Speaking of people fighting back, check out this Marine at a townhall meeting with Congressman Brian “Brown shirts” Baird. Very much worth the minute or two it takes to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRE5UK6NQU

As for the left, their leaders have long realized that the way to maintain their own privilege is to offer to relieve the citizenry of the responsibility of their own lives. It’s worked since at least the “bread and circuses” of Roman times.

To make it stick however you also have to demonize those people who put into practice the knowledge that the cost of liberty is sacrifice, self-reliance, and individual responsibility. Hence the Left portrayal – especially in the 70’s – of the evil of the American military, and the more modern disparagement of anyone refusing the groupthink catechism, from bitter-clingers to Sarah Palin.

On the bright side, it seems to me that the new media is allowing the spread of ideas in the way the printing presses in America once did at the time of the Revolution. Governor Palin (one of my favourites) would never get the time of day in the MSM; now she can publish as she pleases on Facebook and the Administration has to listen. And for the rest of us, we can find out exactly how the left leadership percieves the citizenry – in its own words, no less – while at the same time discovering a whole new class of American heroes – like the speaker in the youtube clip above.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:28 am 16. steve:

The only way the government can cut costs is by denying coverage to the sick. Their will be death panels. The whole thing is a death panel.

The government will have access to all your medical records which will be at their fingertips.

New cures will fade since the private sector will be under assault by our government.

Their will no competetive forces at work. All administrative services will eventually fall under government control. Think of the Post Office, they will be your “healthcare” workers.

Racial quotas will determine how many physicians, nurses etc. will be in the workplace and where they will be.

Ths worth fighting against with every fiber of your being.

This will be worse than the UK and Canada by light years since their will be no United States for us to fall back on.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:29 am 17. howiem:

Those who are too busy productively pursuing their individual freedom did not see the need for organizing, until it struck us in the face. Yet even now, the tea parties and town hall meetings are not being conducted by organizations, they are being conducted by invididuals coming together to remove those who would take away their freedom. Tea Parties and Town Hall Meetings are not the names of organizations; they are the names of events that can be attended or not, and no one needs to be a card carrying member of anything to attend them. No one is being coerced to attend them. No one has to pledge anything to attend them. Will the feigned ignorance of a Caskill stop this? Will the arrogance of a Specter or the denigration of a Franks stop this? Will hurling epithets and ridicule instead of intelligent answers stop this? Will the disinclination to answer reasonable questions stop this? Will the continual disregard for the United States Constitution stop this? Will trying to cover-up failed or soon to be failed government programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the U.S. Postal Service stop this? Will burying legislation that is anathema to Americans in 1000 page legislation and bragging that “We never read it’ is going to stop this? In each case the answer is NO!. The tiger has been awakened and I’ll take the tiger against the jackass any time.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:39 am 18. Kazooskibum:

The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:48 am 19. Byron Dickens:

Bikini clad CodePink activists? Yuck. You owe me a keyboard ro replace the one I vomited on.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:07 am 20. BC:

To HalifaxCB: the only thing more eye rolling and annoying than everyday, conservative leaning folk being totally suckered by standard issue, right wing/GOP-backed FUD-smear campaigns, as that Marine apparently was, is believing that this is somehow all-American, standing up for your rights and all that. The Founding Fathers, though, probably especially Benjamin Franklin, would have bitch-slapped you rummies for being such gullible idiots, as well as being exactly the same clueless, obstructive sort that they probably had to deal with in planning their break from England and forming a new Republic.

Actually I can imagine that if right wing blog sites existed back then, what the article headlines would be like: “The Independites and their blatant quest for power”; “Starting a revolution? More like stirring up anarchy!”; “The latest lies of Jefferson and his henchmen”; “Take your so-called liberty, please”; and so on….

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:10 am 21. jharp:

“that the appearance of politically conservative protesters at town hall meetings is a watershed moment in our time as well.”

Too funny. A “watershed moment” and it’s all based on lies. The lie of death panels, the lie of socialized medicine, the lie it’s about a power grab, the lie about rationing, and more.

By all means go for it. I just keep thinking how the teabaggers were spawned with the slogan “Taxed Enough Already” after Obama cut taxes for 95% of us. Just as they had no credibility then, they have no credibility now. Seriously, you’ve got half of them protesting for the government to keep their hands of Medicare.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:30 am 22. jharp:

“some which pay ready-made protesters “$400 cash per week PLUS ‘free’ housing [and] ‘free’ gasoline,””

Where do I sign up? This is nothing but more wingnut nonsense.

Link? Any evidence to support this ludicrous claim?

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:34 am 23. Parabellum:

vivo, are you trying to claim that General Electric and General Motors are right wing companies?

If so, you’re loonier than I previously thought.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:39 am 24. ~Paules:

One of my guilty pleasures is watching the leftist mind unravel. I suppose if one lives an insular existence where ideology is never tested by reality, coming to terms with a grass roots “mob” can be quite the shock. I fully expect a member of congress to soil himself in public before this is all over. Note to leftists: When a good ole boy says “get out of my face,” his response is not mere posturing; it’s a final warning.

I must admit also that I enjoy reading the troll spew that shows up in these threads. It’s like watching someone who never graduated from a D & D fantasy world. Little dudes, the spells don’t work in real life! Before you roll the dice again in the dungeons of your collective mind, I suggest you consult your bestiary under the words “sleeping giant.” He’s fully awake now and filled with a terrible resolve. Bwahahahaha!

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:42 am 25. HalifaxCB:

BC @20:
To HalifaxCB: the only thing more eye rolling and annoying than everyday, conservative leaning folk being totally suckered by standard issue, right wing/GOP-backed FUD-smear campaigns, as that Marine apparently was, is believing that this is somehow all-American, standing up for your rights and all that.

=======
BC – you seem to be a little lacking on the history angle. Anyway, since you apparently missed it in school you can google the following to find out where it came from:

“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness…. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

My own impression is that Franklin and the rest of the Founders agreed with this; in fact they took up arms to implement these ideas. (Not that we have gotten to that point yet, and one hopes the threat implied by the second amendment will caution the governments not to push too hard). But perhaps you disagree.

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:17 am 26. SteveB/Colorado:

The most telling & demonstrative point about all this is the ad that was running on the PJM home page next to the link to this thread. “Every second, the insurance industry makes $236 denying you health care. What is the Republican plan (answer: they don’t have one).”

#11 & 16 Steve: “We must continue to fight Obamacare even if it passes. This would be the end of our country and of our liberty and privacy…..the only way the government can cut costs is by denying coverage to the sick. There will be death panels………”

And so, Steve, exactly what is your answer to the problem? How do you feel about the 20+ states where 1 or 2 insurance carriers control 70%+ of the market. How about the state of Maine, where one company by itself controls over 70%? Where’s the free market?? With guys like you falling for the ‘keep the status quo’ B.S., no wonder the insurance CEOs are laughing all the way to the bank. And of course you really do think that insurance companies protect your privacy????

“Death panels” indeed. You’re falling for the lies peddled by the bimbo from Alaska (Cindy Sheehan’s ’soul mate’), who didn’t know where Russia was during the election and obviously can’t read a legislative bill. And you really think the insurance companies don’t have denial of coverage to the really sick as internal, hidden, company policies?

#20 BC: “….the founding fathers though, probably especially Benjamin Franklin, would have bitch-slapped you rummies for being such gullible idiots…..” Gullible idiots indeed. The right loonies who worship the ground Rush Limbaugh walks on are about as bright as the left loonies who worship Move On dot org..

#24 Paules: “….under the words ’sleeping giant.’ He’s fully awake now and filled with a terrible resolve. Bwahahaha!” So Paul, where was your resolve last fall? Did you vote for McCain; campaign for McCain; contribute money to the campaign? (disclosure: I did #s 1 &3). Where was your resolve last fall, or did you just become a conservative after inauguration day on January 20?

You can rant all you want about the “troll spew.” But it still doesn’t convince anyone that you are the ‘real deal.’

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:37 am 27. Listen up:

We are in the millions and millions now! The media realizes at last that failing to report on us or twisting our message will not stop us. It just makes us more determine. The media and the political lackeys they prop up are putting on an arrogant face (aka Barney Frank) while they secretly wring their power-snatching, grubby hands, and sweat behind their gated rat holes. Every day we grow. Every day the people of this nation, even on the left of center disbelieve the MSM and the Democrates. Soon the American people will once again run this nation. The arrogant, selfish politicians with their media mouthpieces will be out looking for a real job! VOTE EM OUT!

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:40 am 28. Mongoose:

Jharp: It is YOU that is the liar.

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:43 am 29. jharp:

HalifaxCB:

“Speaking of people fighting back, check out this Marine at a townhall meeting with Congressman Brian “Brown shirts” Baird.”

I watched the clip. Just what was that man’s point? That Medicare is unconstitutional?

Or did he want the governments hands off of his government paid for health care?

He did mention that he is a disabled veteran. Just where do you think he gets his insurance?

Good Lord. The teabaggers make no sense at every turn.

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:47 am 30. bibio44:

“Opposition to ObamaCare has birthed the protest movement the right never had.”

Whaddya talkin’ about? You’re forgetting the John Birch Society, which also threw around words like “treason” when talking about the president (albeit a Republican president). In those days, rational conservatives like Bill Buckley had the guts to talk back to the Radical Right. Now? Idiots like Grassley won’t even criticize nut jobs bringing guns to presidential events. Time to water the Tree of Liberty … time for bloodshed!

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:56 am 31. bibio44:

#24: “I must admit also that I enjoy reading the troll spew….”

Hey, Paules, better a troll than an a-hole.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:00 am 32. bobbcat:

21. jharp: “Too funny. A “watershed moment” and it’s all based on lies. The lie of death panels, the lie of socialized medicine, the lie it’s about a power grab, the lie about rationing, and more.”

For the sake of argument, I will pretend that these are indeed lies. This is irrelevant to the fact that overtaking our healthcare system is unconstitutional. Healthcare delivery is not a right. There is nothing you can say (as if you had any credibility in the first place) to change these facts.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:01 am 33. jharp:

27. Listen up:

“We are in the millions and millions now!”

That you are. Maybe even as high as 40 million.

The problem is there are 160 million of us who can easily identify you as the ignorant frauds that you are.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:05 am 34. jharp:

bobbcat:

21. jharp: “The lie of death panels, the lie of socialized medicine, the lie it’s about a power grab, the lie about rationing, and more.”

“For the sake of argument, I will pretend that these are indeed lies. This is irrelevant to the fact that overtaking our healthcare system is unconstitutional. Healthcare delivery is not a right.”

That’s good to assume they are lies. They are.

So Medicare and Medicaid and the VA and Tricare are unconstitutional? Not even the dimmest of the dimbulbs believes such nonsense.

Are interstate highways a “right”?

And no one is proposing “taking over” our health care system.

The facts. Health care dollars spent today.

Medicare = 35%
Medicaid = 11%
Private Insurance = 34%
Out of pocket = 20%

Medicare delivers 95 cents of every dollar for health care.

Private insurance delivers 80 cents of every dollar for health care.

Obamacare rightfully is expanding the more efficient delivery system. While at the same time providing something new to the insurance industry. Competition.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:15 am 35. HalifaxCB:

Re. the Marine’s point – it is very simply that whether one keeps one’s doctor is just not a role of government, and that Obama et al – in considering themselves generous by “allowing” Americans to do such – are revealing quite an embarrassing sense of paternalism towards other citizens. If you want to see how well that paternalism put into practice works, just wander around the inner city of any major liberal metropolis.

As for the VA being socialized medicine; that is one of the greatest canards of the Left. Those vets now being treated by the VA are the once young people who offered to sacrifice their lives and liberty to protect America; the VA, as well as a few other small benefits, are what they were offered in exchange for doing so. To pretend that the exchange is somehow even equal is disturbing; to make the claim that VA benefits represent a gift by the government to the undeserving is appalling.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:25 am 36. ~Paules:

Moho, vivo, and jharp descend to the 10th level of their imaginary dungeon looking for the key that will unlock the door to Utopia, a magical land of pink unicorns, lotus flowers, and socialized medicine. Jharp approaches a door etched with cryptic runes: “Legalized marijuana.”

“We’ve hit the jackpot,” shouts vivo as he throws open the portal.

“Ayee” screams jharp, “it’s the witch queen, Sarah Palin, surrounded by an army of giant rednecks!”

“Quick, use the condescension spell,” yells Moho.

“I’m trying,” says vivo, “but it won’t take; they’re too stupid.”

“Then try the race card.”

“Won’t work,” wails vivo beginning to panic, “they’ve become immune.”

Another door opens revealing a mob of angry, tea-bagging zombies. The little group finds itself suddenly surrounded. Jharp pulls out a scroll and invokes the spirit of Karl Marx. “Class warfare!” he screams at the hoard of slobbering ghouls.

“We’re doomed,” cries vivo.

“Run for your lives,” screams jharp.

“I want my mommy,” weeps Moho as he collapses to the floor.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:28 am 37. steve:

#26 SteveB Colorado quotes me:

“And so, Steve, exactly what is your answer to the problem? How do you feel about the 20+ states where 1 or 2 insurance carriers control 70%+ of the market”

My answer is not to turn our healthcare system over to a bunch of tyrannical nitwits in the government that can’t run anything at all.

Are you really that foolish? You would be willing to give up your liberty because we need MORE FREE MARKET COMPETITION in certain states?

So now #26 says that since we lack competition in certain states then we should have no competition, no options, just a lawless government to submit our lives too.

““Death panels” indeed”.

Yes death panels. The whole damn scheme is a death panel. Obama will give yo mamma a pain killer so don’t worry. Why not check out not only Obama’s hairbrained statements but also those of the leading architect of this criminal plan, Ezekechial Emmanuel. Abortion, euthanasia, sterlization are great things according to Zeke. Handicapped people, Downe’s syndrome children, terminally are waste of money when that “money could spent on vacations” and improving people lives according to Rahm’s brother. What about that SteveB?

Please tell me how the GOVERNMENT will be efficient so that they can cut costs without cutting coverage for the sick and eldery? THEY CAN’T!

Can you imagine the quality of healthcare workers that will be waiting for us?

Oh and BTW, I’m not a big Palin fan although she’s better than anything on your side and I don’t quote Saturday Night Live comics and present them as fact. The hapless fool in the White House and his henchmen provide all the material we need.

We’ll fight this thing even if they pass it. They have NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to do so. Losing is not an option.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:41 am 38. Consongwriter:

ATTENTION ALL PATRIOTS: The grassroots-conservative-freedom fighters now have a new anthem: “We The People” Check it out at “goodguysusa.com” We need your help NOW!

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:57 am 39. a:

The reason one or two insurance companies control a state health insurance policies is due to FEDERAL law. The companies are not allowed to sell outside their state.
Repeal that and get competition.
A law that screwed up health insurance is used as an excuse to pass more outrageous health insurance laws. Obamauncare.
Put the political class out to pasture.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:08 am 40. Claire Solt:

To me, a telling symbolic mopment is Claire McCaskill’s bewilderment over rudeness. There is a man standing to speak who looks like he might have come in off a road crew and left his hard hat in his truck. Since when do politicians get to dictate manners? Laborers have their own standards.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:25 am 41. jharp:

HalifaxCB:

“Re. the Marine’s point – it is very simply that whether one keeps one’s doctor is just not a role of government”

So the Marine agrees with Obamacare that whether you keep your doctor is your choice. That’s good.

“As for the VA being socialized medicine; that is one of the greatest canards of the Left.”

The VA is socialized medicine and it works pretty well.

“Those vets now being treated by the VA are the once young people who offered to sacrifice their lives and liberty to protect America; the VA, as well as a few other small benefits, are what they were offered in exchange for doing so.”

That is rather obvious you dolt. The point is the VA is socialized medicine and it works pretty well.

“to make the claim that VA benefits represent a gift by the government to the undeserving is appalling.”

And since no one did this makes your sentence irrelevant nonsense.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:27 am 42. Calmike:

jharp,

Where did you find Medicare paying “95 cents of every dollar”? The Mrdicare website specifies a co-payment of 20% of the approved amount – and if you are charged more than yhe “approved amount” your costs are even higher.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:45 am 43. John Galt Jr.:

To all who state Medicare, Social Security, Tricare, etc. as wonderful things, please look up the Treasury numbers on them. They are going broke! I say it again;

MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY; THEY ARE GOING BROKE!

If the glory of Medicare and SS is your answer to “Why not have a government run public option?”, you have lost the argument. Medicare has a 95% return on investment? Please post the link. It is going into it’s downward spiral in 2012 to 2017 depending on which report you read. And, oh by the way, those latest numbers don’t take into account a 22% reduction in our tax base (medicare and SS will also be affected) for the last quarter. Once again, check out the numbers from the IRS.

A public option, and the eventual single payer system will destroy our medical system, and will greatly expand our deficit in the process. Canadians and Brits (socialized medicine countries) travel to foreign countries to have treatment, can’t you see there is a reason for that?

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:45 am 44. HalifaxCB:

jharp @41;
LOL, that’s a pretty weak construction, even by your standards. Come back with something a little more rational, I’ll be happy to debate.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:49 am 45. NahnCee:

My own theory is that the SDS protesters in the 1960’s have grown up and matured to be the Tea Party protesters of the 21st Century. “If you’re not a Democrat when you’re young, you lack a heart; if you’re not a Republican when you’ve matured, you lack a brain.”

Therefore, all the anti-Vietnam War, Nixon-impeachment protesters of 1970 have matured into conservatives who love their Constitution more than they love any one President (or Party).

Too bad the New Left is still young and stupid and haven’t realized this quite yet (yes, Janeane Garofolo – I’m looking at you).

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:55 am 46. BC:

To HalifaxCB: I’m happy for you that you’re able to quote from the Declaration of Independence, but you might as well as have quote from Dilbert in term of relevance to my point: there is nothing patriotic about allowing yourself to be suckered by propaganda and deliberate disinformation. That Marine in your video had his facts all back-asswards, and neither his service record nor his self-righteous bravado in straw-manning Congressman Brian Baird can change the fact that he was just being a clueless jackass.

Benjamin Franklin knew all about propaganda and manipulation, and I’m sure he wouldn’t have been thrilled at all with such stuff being used by cynical, politically self-serving Americans on fellow Americans for undermining proposals only meant to assure and maintain that “Safety and Happiness” bit you so forthrightly quoted.

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:00 am 47. Calvin Ball:

36, and then the power went out. The power’s on in all the neighbor’s houses, but their is off. They’re the ones who signed up for “green power”, and the wind stopped blowing. The video game goes blank.

Saved by Gaia.

The wind starts again. The game’s back. They’re now in a jungle full of wingnut winged troglodytes, throwing exploding bananas. They go for the rope. They swing long over the swamp. Thye make it to the other side. There, they meet a fate worse than death: President Alan Keyes.

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:19 am 48. ~Paules:

When last we left mom’s basement an assortment of trolls were licking their wounds after suffering public humiliation. They are convinced now that an army of racist, sexist, homophobes has been conjured like the undead from a Stygian vault deep beneath RNC headquarters.

“It’s got to be the evil one himself,” says jharp as he pulls on a joint of holy herb.

“You mean Karl Ro . . .” but the name is cut off by a collective hiss.

“Do not invoke the name,” says vivo with an involuntary shudder, “he has ears everywhere.”

“Could it be as they claim?” asks Moho. “I mean, maybe the right is for real?”

“Impossible,” snorts jharp, “the right has no collective brain. The undead must be animated by dark sorcery before they will move.”

“But they do hate even if they can’t think,” adds vivo solemnly.

Moho begins to weep again. “But, but, the One, the light-bringer, our messiah is in retreat. How is that possible for a divine being?”

A door opens at the top of the steps. From above a woman’s voice is heard in the darkness: “Time to put the dice away, boys. You can go back to role playing tomorrow.”

“Awe, mom,” intones vivo.

Stay tuned for the next episode of Boys in the Basement . . .

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:35 am 49. noreen:

I have never felt as proud of Americans as I am right now. The energy is palpabale.It is reminiscent of the 60’s People are finally fed up. It is time to take back our country from the authoritarian imperialists who hold her hostage. What is really surprising is the look of shock on the faces of those in power as they are confronted by the people who are angry as they have been pushed beyond the brink. Never have so many felt so disenfrachised. They forget that they are in power at the pleasure of the people. People are finally frighhtened. Hopefully not too late. I hate to see what is in store when this debacle of a health care plan is forced unwillingly on us. There will be unrest in the streets. The hyprocrisy of the left is amusing.The tools these grassroots groups are using belong to them I guess. their chickens have come home to roost and it’s about time

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:42 am 50. jharp:

Calmike:

jharp,

“Where did you find Medicare paying “95 cents of every dollar”?”

I was wrong. It’s closer to spending “98 cents of every dollar on health care”, or better put, administrative costs are about 2%.

And it’s right here.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/administrative-costs/

“the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has found that administrative costs under the public Medicare plan are less than 2 percent of expenditures”

Any other questions?

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:42 am 51. HalifaxCB:

BC – It took you that long to find the quote? We used to memorize the whole thing in school, but alas that was a long time ago…..Anway, your argument is all suposition on your part with no supporting information (surprise, surprise) – except for the fact that Franklin was one cool dude – unless by calling him a propagandist and manipulator (sticks and stones, my friend) you are trying to pull a Jon Stewart on him, and consider him a war criminal. Kinda failed for Stewart do such to Truman, I don’t think you’ll get any further trying it on Franklin.

On the hand, Franklin did say
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I rather like that. Seems sort of germaine to the demands for healthcare at the cost of other people’s freedom, don’t you think?

Your next assignment – you can do this from your folk’s basement as well – is to google the origins of Jefferson’s “tree of liberty” statement, and with particular attention to the incident which it addressed. I think you’ll find that there was – even among the elites of the time – an enormous sympathy for those that took up arms to defend their rights – even if those warms were taken up against their own side.

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:48 am 52. Mongoose:

Nahncee: I think you are wrong about that i the main, but one does hope that there are some repentant SDS’ers in the crowd–they would really know how to deal with the enemy. However, I still know a lot of SDS antiwar types from the 1960’s, and all of them are still had core lefties. They really bought into it–it is rather chilling after all that has happened since then.

It is this cohort of 1960’s SDS insider types that are leading the Democrat party now.

Yes there were some misguided people in the 1960’s that change their minds, but very few of those people were in the SDS. The SDS was a hard core communist front organization and it had some Soviet funding behind parts of it.

It is more likely that the Tea Party crowd has been watching this nonsense for decades, has finally had enough and understands the tactics used back then. WE have seen how effective the left has used them during the Bush years, so it is only natural that they are imitated.

I also think the level of anger is such that it has to find a voice.

Pretty jolly too, because there are a lot more of us than there are of them. I think the current Tea Party crowd is the just a tiny tip of a very large iceberg, may less than 1% of the right and the moderates, but, by proxy, they represent a much larger number.

I do not know if you hae been to one of these, but it seems to me that 70% of the cars driving by honk their horns in approval. And I have seen this in New York of all places. We need to keep it up.

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:53 am 53. Anonymous:

“This is now “what I do”.”

Yup, me too. I think for me, it started on 9-11. I should be ashamed to say this, but it really wasn’t until that day that I realized there are forces at work who want to destroy this country and everything it stands for. On that terrible day, the forces were from without. Now, they are coming at us from within. For some reason I can’t explain, the fight against the enemy within seems much more intense.

But I will NOT go quietly. And there are millions of us who feel the same way. Those of us who have taken up the mantle must continue to speak out at every opportunity.

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:01 am 54. Fantom:

It truly is amazing, and about time, to see the great washed masses rising up to throw off the shackles of oppressive socialist statism. What is even better is to be a participant in this historic movement.

I went to my first protest last April 15. It sent chills up my spine as 7,000 of us sang the Star Spangled Banner as one. There were a few of the lefts astroturfers there, the usual suspects in all fewer than a hundred I suspect. Punks with purple hair and various pieces of metal protruding from such unlikely locations as to make one wonder if the pipe bomb the punks were working on exploded and maybe that they should be in the ER instead of harassing us.

It was one such group, about a dozen…. seems the strategy is to spread out in small clumps for these losers. Anyways it was such a group who started chanting “We want change, we want change” that I was able to start a spontaneous counter chant to of “Change your Diapers, Change your Diapers” it was great fun.

I intend to make at least two more of these protests in the coming weeks. One in Dallas and one in Oklahoma City. I am not getting paid anything but respect in myself knowing I am not sitting idly by while Soro’s spreads his statist evil.

We are the real Americans folks and it makes the left scared.

Now we need to follow up and put in place conservative/freedom organizations to give real Americans a choice. No more AARP.. go ASA instead http://www.americanseniors.org/Pages/home.aspx?Images=/images/index_new.gif . Guilds instead of communist unions.

To that latter Guild idea. As President of my local for over 8 years I can attest that the communist national union leadership does not represent the rank and file politics. Give the common union worker a organization that protects his interest but is not leftist in politics and we would devastate the lefts power base.

Just a thought.

A Simple Bricklayer

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:17 am 55. Professor Guvinoff:

The political machine of the left works by organizing a large number of people willing to sacrifice reason to the good vibes of emotional gratification. Don’t worry if the sign you carry was printed by someone else, and happens to be the same as the sign carried by the next guy, as long as you have a sign to carry and a slogan to chant, you’re hip, dude!

The new freedom fighters are not organized from the outside, but appeal to reason, which is a form of internal organization, one fighter at a time, one argument at a time. No wonder the former wants government expansion, and the latter wants government limitations! The basic question is whether you’re happy to be a mere subject, or you want to earn the privileges of being a full citizen, as understood in America’s founding documents.

America is the land of the proud cowboy, bold and skillful in the saddle, not the sheep, bashful and hiding behind the numbers. We do not herd cattle on the prairie anymore, but we can swap tweets and blog posts on the net. Saddle up, citizen!

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:34 am 56. Big Red:

36 ~Paules, COOOL. Can’t wait til the movie comes out. Hear Gilbert Godfrey has signed to play vivo.

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:36 am 57. Zeek:

The Republican party is irretrievably damaged. It is split between conservatives and “moderates”, the latter of which are watered-down democrats.

Look at the issue of illegal immigration. Cheap labor? Nothing you could possibly imagine will wind up being as expensive as those illegal immigrants who work “cheap”.

La Raza says, “We didn’t cross the border. The border crossed us”. There is no more respect for our immigration laws than there is for speed limit laws.

The Grand Old Party is already dead. The Nation will soon follow.

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:47 am 58. jharp:

HalifaxCB:

“google the origins of Jefferson’s “tree of liberty” statement, and with particular attention to the incident which it addressed. I think you’ll find that there was – even among the elites of the time – an enormous sympathy for those that took up arms to defend their rights – even if those warms were taken up against their own side.”

Anonymous:

“But I will NOT go quietly. And there are millions of us who feel the same way.”

noreen:

“I hate to see what is in store when this debacle of a health care plan is forced unwillingly on us.”

You losers are killing me. Get over it. You lost an election. Make that two elections. In two landslides.

If you think you’re veiled threats are going to get you anywhere but in jail you are sadly mistaken.

And whoever it was who called you bitter clingers to God and guns nailed it.

Obama ran on reforming health care. And won in a landslide.

Now bend over and take your medicine. Obama care is passing and your ignorant teabagging shout downs at the town halls is futile. And stupid too. Equally as stupid as protesting taxes after Obama cut taxes.

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:55 am 59. Marc Malone:

BC – You really don’t know your history. The Founders would make Pat Buchanan look like a left-wing radical.

The Blue Laws were strictly and proudly enforced, for example. Jefferson was among the most liberal of them, and he signed off with “in the year of our Lord Christ”. They prayed together, at Franklin’s suggestion when they were logjammed, before forming the Constitution. Our money says, “In God We Trust”. They used guns to overthrow a King. They bore arms. 29 of the Signers were Theologians (aka Clergy). All went to Church on a more than weekly basis.

They’d bitch-slap us for not being right-wing enough. They’d chide us for not bearing arms to townhall meetings. They fought duels using those selfsame guns, because they believed that real gentlemen did not fight with their fists, but they DID fight. They beat their children to teach them respect and obedience. Dads were addressed as “Sir”. Conservatives believe in not just the Founders’ words, but in their words as evinced by their lives.

jharp – The VA is NOT socialized medicine. That is just offensive. Insurance companies will not cover “Acts of War”, so the government has to self-insure the troops. The price these disabled veterans pay for this insurance is in blood and nightmares. To sneer at, or ridicule, that disabled veteran is grossly offensive. This is why we on the Right are revulsed by the lack of patriotism on the Left. I’ve seen the Leftists often post, “Patriotism is overrated.”. Ugh!

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:28 pm 60. twoninerkilo:

Right now the best option for the left is to eat sh%t and die!. Their finished.

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:29 pm 61. sodacrackers:

jharp, you must be getting your talking points straight from Obama: We won, you lost, haha! Obama did not run on reforming health care. He was going to bring all our troops home, work in a bipartisan way, rub noses with all our enemies (I think that might be the only promise he kept.)
I did learn something I could have lived without knowing from your cronies jharp. “Teabagging” is a nasty term. How clever of you all to use it against the patriots! You will keep hearing from us loud and clear.

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:40 pm 62. LeighB:

Hooray for ~Paules! Can’t wait for the next episode. It’s better, waaaaayyy better than the reality show Soros sponsors.

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:47 pm 63. myth buster:

jharp you hypocrite! When was the last time the left just accepted the outcome of an election and allowed the right to implement its policies without opposition? If you and your ilk had done what you expect us to do, we wouldn’t have half of the problems we now have. Instead, we would have private social security accounts, the Bush tax cuts would be permanent, and Freddie and Fannie wouldn’t have gone broke by becoming mortgage hedge funds! Instead, Social Security is going bankrupt, taxes are set to rise automatically on Jan 1, 2011 even if Congress does nothing, and we spent hundreds of billions bailing out banks because of the mortgage bubble created by the CRA, which Bush set out to fix.

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:48 pm 64. Kim:

There’s an immediate reward for being a freedom fighter.

Ayn Rand put it this way: “…anyone who fights for the future, lives in it today.”

Aug 23, 2009 - 12:53 pm 65. jharp:

59. Marc Malone:

“jharp – The VA is NOT socialized medicine.”

Yes, the VA is socialized medicine. The doctors and nurses work for the government. And the VA is funded wholly by tax dollars.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1376238,00.html

“The VA runs the largest integrated health-care system in the country, with more than 1,400 hospitals, clinics and nursing homes employing 14,800 doctors and 61,000 nurses. And by a number of measures, this government-managed health-care program–socialized medicine on a small scale–is beating the marketplace. For the sixth year in a row, VA hospitals last year scored higher than private facilities on the University of Michigan’s American Customer Satisfaction Index,”

“To sneer at, or ridicule, that disabled veteran is grossly offensive.”

And no one is ridiculing or sneering any veterans, disabled or not.

It is the ignorant teabagging redneck bible thumping GOPers who I am ridiculing.

Specifically the ones who are too ignorant to even understand what socialized medicine is. That’d be you.

Aug 23, 2009 - 1:02 pm 66. BC:

To HalifaxCB: Ummm, I kind of pop in randomly when I’m around and doing other things on my computer, which I kind of think is like a lot of people, so your comment “It took you that long to find the quote?” is both disingenuous and typical of the “reasoning” that goes on among right wingers: if 3 then cat, if cat then Coca Cola, therefore Obama is bad person. And I’m kind of guessing that you didn’t click on that link regarding Benjamin Franklin — that was a CIA link. Again, very typical right wing behavior: “Facts? We no need no steenkin’ facts! Evidence? We no need no lyin’ evidence! Logic? We no need no librul math! History? We no need no old stories!” Context? We no need no stoopid, pointy headed stuff like that!”

Aug 23, 2009 - 2:14 pm 67. Mongoose:

Jharp: this was explained to you several times that the VA is not socialized medicine.

It is a necessary service provided to those that have been in combat. It is not socialized medice any more than a combat field hostpistal is socialized medicine.

You sneer at people for not understating what socialized medicine is, yet it is you that either do not understand or you keep changing the meaning of it moment by moment.

Personally, I think that you are a liar, and yes you dishonor Vets by playing fast and loose with this definition. By far, the majority of them fought and gave much to defeat the very sort of communist tyranny that Obama (and you) wush to foist on us.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Aug 23, 2009 - 2:37 pm 68. shame on the democrats:

I would be so embarrassed to be a Democrat right now.

The “good” is finally starting to outshine the “bad.” And, the Democrats are so distastefully bad.

Vote them all out.

Please.

Aug 23, 2009 - 2:55 pm 69. tommyd:

So jharp thinks his taxes won’t get raised??? Really ??

the following quotes are from a CBS news article.

“The hundreds of billions of dollars being spent as part of the federal bailout of the financial markets is a leading factor in the rapid increase. Over $400-billion in debt has been accrued in the 57 days since President Obama took office.

“And the federal budget he unveiled last month projects even faster increases in the National Debt. It’ll hit $12.7-trillion by the end of the fiscal year on September 30th.”

“The Administration’s four year estimate shows that by the end of September 2012, the Debt will have soared to $16.2-trillion – which amounts to nearly 100% of the projected Gross Domestic Product that year.”

“The National Debt stood at $10.6-trillon on the day Barack Obama took office. But if his budget projections are accurate, he’ll run up nearly as much government debt in four years as President Bush did in eight.”

I repeat these figures are from a CBS news article.

It is a impossibility for there not to be a massive tax increase in order to sustain the above. (hint, it is not sustainable)

Just like the ignorant reporter (I use that term lightly) Susan Roesgen formerly of CNN, tried to make it seem like just because the admin was “Giving” them all $400 we should all be grateful and just go home and shut up. Like that $400 makes a piss ants bit of difference in anyones life… My my how cheaply some can be had for…

The Obama administration comes up with some lame tax reduction for some today but sets up a head on wreck with an out of control train around the next corner and the sheep think all is wonderful.

The leftist want everyone to ignore the facts and Believe! Yes we can!

Life does not work that way. Facts are a stubborn thing.

Aug 23, 2009 - 2:57 pm 70. AThinkingPerson:

People…When you argue with jharp, you’re trying to reason with someone who voted for Obama in the first place. That should be your first clue that this person is easily swayed by a snake oil salesman and the lure of a few meager handouts (that have yet to materialize).

Trying to reason with an Obama voter is like trying to put lipstick on a pig (no disrespect to Nancy Pelosi intended of course).

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:02 pm 71. ~Paules:

Meanwhile, back in mom’s basement our resident trolls emerge slowly from the debris of last night’s debauchery. The best part about being a troll is not having to dress till 4pm when the pizza truck arrives with breakfast. Vivo loads the bowl while jharp stares at a cockroach trying to extract itself from a packet of Chinese duck sauce. Moho absently strokes the stubble on his chin.

“You know, guys,” says Moho, “I think I’ll look for a job today.” His comrades turn and stare as if he had suddenly started speaking in tongues. “Just kidding,” he announces with a wink. The bong is passed around and when communion is finished, Vivo turns on the computer. He lets out a soft moan and claps a scaly claw across his forehead.

“S’up?” asks jharp.

“Obama’s poll numbers are down again. He’s at minus 14 according to Rasmussen.”

“Lies,” snaps Moho.

“I told you to stop reading corporate shills,” snarls jharp. “If you want the truth, try HuffPo or Daily Kos.”

“We need a plan,” whines vivo.

“I told you to have faith,” says jharp reaching for another bong hit. “We have history on our side after all. In Marx we trust. Besides, life is good. We have day old pizza, warm beer, and a day of trolling ahead of us.”

“Now you’re talk’n!”

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:06 pm 72. Itchee:

jharp et.al.

The comparison of the administrative costs of Medicare to the private health insurance is an apples to oranges comparison in many ways, one of which is the clientele. Medicare has a narrow range of patients compared to the caseload and paperwork etc of all patients in age group infant to teenager to adult to the aged. The payout is also subsidized and the amounts controlled but not calculated in the costs. This shortfall has to be made up by passing the costs on to the consumers of private medical services. etc.

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:07 pm 73. Truth:

It is pointless to argue with people that haven’t figured out socialism is bad for them. After almost 100 years of actual proof in USSR and Europe and yet it hasn’t permiated through thier skulls. The mental gymnastics required to make excuses for all its past failures must be tiring.

These people won’t even have a clue when, 10 years after this passes, they’re trying to bribe goverment officials for cold medicine. At that point they’ll be thinking to themselves “gee, this official needs more oversight.” More government for all!

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:11 pm 74. jharp:

Mongoose:

“Jharp: this was explained to you several times that the VA is not socialized medicine.”

Flat out false. You guys are absolutely nuts, crazy, utterly astoundingly unbelievable.

You claim the VA ain’t socialized medicine yet Obamacare is. When EXACTLY the opposite is true.

“It is a necessary service provided to those that have been in combat.”

Good one. You got that right. Care to explain why the private sector can’t provide the same service? I didn’t think so.

“It is not socialized medice any more than a combat field hostpistal is socialized medicine.”

Both are socialized medicine you dimwitted fool.

“You sneer at people for not understating what socialized medicine is.”

Yes, I do. And I will continue to do so until you nitwits get it.

“and yes you dishonor Vets by playing fast and loose with this definition.”

And how does it dishonor vets to call the VA exactly what it is? Socialized medicine.

God help us. America is inundated with ignorance.

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:19 pm 75. Itchee:

…also, the care is rationed from the get go, unlike private insurance, the treatment in Medicare is also limited to 90 day hospital stays, after 90 days your ass is done being paid for unless you get moved to a rehabilitative facility for 60 days and then reapply for another 90 day stay.

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:21 pm 76. jams:

jharp

i have little time but i can tell you are agitated like a child who does not get their way. likely you are angered about other things in life as well. in the future pass on posting til you take a breath

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:27 pm 77. Collie:

As Ronald Reagan used to say, “You ain’t seen nuthin’ yet!”

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:28 pm 78. Wemo:

Steve raises an interesting point vis-a-vis the National Guard.

The NG is a STATE organization, with the Governor as its Commander-in-Chief. It cannot be activated by the President without the express consent of the Governor. Even if it doesn’t become a 10th Amendment issue, the Governor wins.

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:34 pm 79. Warren Bonesteel:

The currency today is credibility. i.e. truths which are founded solidly in real-world factual evidences and proofs. The currency is no longer about power and control. It is no longer about who’s ideology or belief system is the best to impose on others. This is the change you are beginning to see made manifest before you.

The old power and control paradigm of right vs left/Republican vs Democrat is dying. It will soon go the way of the dinosaur.

Our struggle is no longer about ideology or of pushing our own belief system(s) down the throats of those who do not think, act, talk, live and believe just as we do.

When the left is in power, they legislate un-Constitutional laws to regulate the behavior of their ideological opponents. When the right is in power, they do the exact same thing…yet neither side can understand why we have the highest incarceration rate in the world or why we have over 200,000 pages of legislation in the Federal Code, alone. These two facts by themselves prove that America is not a free society.

The two party system in America is not about freedom. It is about picking who gets to put the collars around your necks and the chains on your legs. Freedom in America at this time in history is about you choosing who wields the whip that is used to flay the skin off your own backs.

From the local county courthouse to your state legislators, from governor’s mansions around the nation to D.C., the political class has been corrupted and has decided that they are the ruling elites in America. To even describe them as the political class is to openly acknowledge our slavery to our own government. You are not free. You are slaves.

Our struggle is no longer about ideology or about issues, which is merely a narrative which is designed to keep Americans divided and unable to unite against an out of control, tyrannical government.

Our struggle is about freedom. Our struggle is for liberty.

Aug 23, 2009 - 3:50 pm 80. spudmomof6:

Medicare may claim to be more efficient, but if it’s so great, why does every senior citizen I know have a Medicare supplement insurance plan? Doctors have to limit the number of Medicare patients because they don’t pay for the actual cost (equipment, staff, malpractice insurance, etc) of the procedures; privately insured people are picking up the tab. How many doctors with huge student loans will be able to stay in the profession if all of their patients pay like Medicare? Why will the smartest people go into medicine (rather than law or business) if they get rewarded for the years of training and long, ‘always on call’ hours with a wage they could have gotten with a bachelor’s degree? Do you really want all of your doctors to be imports from India and Pakistan?

On the bright side, doctors won’t be in the ‘rich’ category any more and thus won’t have to pay the extra taxes imposed by Obama to pay for this; so where will he turn next to get the money?

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:00 pm 81. Deafdog:

True, the current protests are about healthcare, and it’s also true that the healthcare ’solutions’ that are being sold make that problem worse, not better.

But the feelings that I have are bigger than the healthcare debate. The underlying issue is out of control spending and regulation at every level of government. Enough already!

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:11 pm 82. Moho:

Finally, the conservatives have their freedom fighters. Maybe next, the Wizard will give them a brain.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:23 pm 83. sodacrackers:

jharp(ie), take a breath. You are getting yourself all worked up.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:27 pm 84. HalifaxCB:

BC @66
Well, you guessed wrong (surprise, surprise); I actually do follow up on links, unless they are to somethng inane, like a Krugman article that’s been thoroughly reduced elsewhere….But it doesn’t tell me anything we hadn’t learned by the end of middle school way back when – what’s even neater is he was in his 70’s when doing these things…I realize that the modern liberal viewpoint encourages people to roll over and play dead for royalty (e.g. Obama and the Saudi king); that Franklin was able to get the French to support the birth of America (with help from Adams and Jefferson) – and not, a la Obama, on bended knee – says a lot for his abilities as a diplomat (even if he played a rough hewn one) in playing off Englih/French antagonism to America’s favour. As well as saying a lot about his pride in the mission, and his country.

The more interesting thing is that you found this somehow new and shocking; I guess that says a good deal about educational standards these days.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:42 pm 85. jharp:

sodacrackers:

“jharp(ie), take a breath. You are getting yourself all worked up.”

Yes, I am worked up. I cannot believe the idiocy of the health care reform debate.

After 50 years, when every other civilized country has implemented some sort of single payer/public insurance that delivers the same level of care as us for 1/2 the cost. Here in the United States, the greatest country in the world, our media is debating outright lies. Death panels, socialized medicine, rationing, government takeover of health care, a “power move by Obama”, etc.

And it’s all a bunch of nonsense. Outright lies.

You are right. I’m plenty worked up about it. And if you had any clue as to what the truth is you’d be worked up about the dittohead, Hannity, and Fox liars too. About 20% of American’s believe them. And that’s been enough to block any meaningful reform.

That, after blowing thru $1 trillion in a completely unnecessary war we were lied into. It’s no wonder we’re screwed. American’s are idiots.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:55 pm 86. MisterH:

“What we’ve got here, is FAILURE to communicate!”
- Strother Martin’s Warden character in Cool Hand Luke.

What people on the left have summarily failed to understand is the current debate over health insurance reform (as it’s called this week by the Obama’s brain trust) is that it is an event that has become a philosophical tipping point – something that is so big, so all-encompassing in its consequences that it draws into question the entire direction the Obama administration has charted.

In other words, it’s got people to thinking “how much government involvement in our lives do we want and how much is it really going to cost us?” Similarly, it has more people asking-
- How much do I trust the politician’s estimates of what it will cost to run this (fill in the name)program?
- How successful will the government actually be in solving the problems the program was designed to fix?
- While politician X is loudly touting the benefits of a particular new program, exactly which “special interest” is he/she rewarding?

Everyone knows (even hardcore libertarians) that government has a vital role to play in managing the affairs of this country. What we’re seeing is a groundswell of push-back from people starting to ask “is the government overreaching?’ (It is inevitable that it will, as that is a natural force in centralized power)

But while sneering clowns like JHarp direct pointless, little jabs at what he thinks are nothing more than ignorant, racist, mouth-breathers or reactionaries, he’s missing the real vein of bile in this debate: people of all kinds are becoming extremely wary and concerned about the scope and scale of the power grab being orchestrated in Washington. They are starting to realize that giving the government more and more power and more of their hard-earned money to “fix” things may be the surest path to sqeezing out the drive, liberty and economic vitality of a great country.

And I am equally disdainful of politicians in both major parties.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:56 pm 87. Anonymous:

>jharp(ie), take a breath. You are getting yourself all worked up.

He does seem to be getting a wee weed bit shrill. Either he hasn’t gotten the memo that the town hall and Teaparty activities have killed his dream of socialized medicine, or he has and is melting down.

Aug 23, 2009 - 4:56 pm 88. steve:

Welcome to the Left -

#26 SteveB Colorado quotes me:

“And so, Steve, exactly what is your answer to the problem? How do you feel about the 20+ states where 1 or 2 insurance carriers control 70%+ of the market”

My answer is not to turn our healthcare system over to a bunch of tyrannical nitwits in the government that can’t run anything at all.

Are you really that foolish? You would be willing to give up your liberty because we need MORE FREE MARKET COMPETITION in certain states?

So now #26 says that since we lack competition in certain states then we should have no competition, no options, just a lawless government to submit our lives too.

““Death panels” indeed”.

Yes death panels. The whole damn scheme is a death panel. Obama will give yo mamma a pain killer so don’t worry. Why not check out not only Obama’s hairbrained statements but also those of the leading architect of this criminal plan, Ezekechial Emmanuel. Abortion, euthanasia, sterlization are great things according to Zeke. Handicapped people, Downe’s syndrome children, terminally are waste of money when that “money could spent on vacations” and improving people lives according to Rahm’s brother. What about that SteveB?

Please tell me how the GOVERNMENT will be efficient so that they can cut costs without cutting coverage for the sick and eldery? THEY CAN’T!

Can you imagine the quality of healthcare workers that will be waiting for us?

Oh and BTW, I’m not a big Palin fan although she’s better than anything on your side and I don’t quote Saturday Night Live comics and present them as fact. The hapless fool in the White House and his henchmen provide all the material we need.

We’ll fight this thing even if they pass it. They have NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to do so. Losing is not an option.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:00 pm 89. Itchee:

jharp says:
Care to explain why the private sector can’t provide the same service? I didn’t think so.

When did anyone state the the private sector can’t provide the same services? It seems you’re just being argumentative because you can’t address the issues in a rational way.

Like Obama and the Post Office, are you pointing to the VA as a business/service model to plan off of?

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:01 pm 90. Itchee:

86. MisterH:

Well said and accurate imo.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:04 pm 91. Itchee:

jharp says:
After 50 years, when every other civilized country has implemented some sort of single payer/public insurance that delivers the same level of care as us for 1/2 the cost.

This is just inaccurate.

In Canada 70% of the people have to carry supplemental insurance policies to cover the cost of prescription drugs and things like ambulance service. So they end up not only paying high taxes, they still have to buy insurance…and have crappy service and long waits. This week there are reports stating the the Canadian health care system is “imploding”…I think it was an inside job. s/

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:10 pm 92. jharp:

“Either he hasn’t gotten the memo that the town hall and Teaparty activities have killed his dream of socialized medicine”

Too funny. The teabaggers have done nothing lest further the demise of the GOP.

Did you miss Barney Frank disgracing the imbecile teabagger posturing Obama as Hitler?

That was a proud moment in the annals of teabaggery.

Do you honestly believe a bunch of ignorant, racist, white trash, racist hillbillies shouting down our elected representatives, and I do mean shouting down, while offering nothing close to a reasonable debate or one question that has anything to do with the debate, is going to decide this thing?

God help us if this is the ignorance our High Schools are turning out these days.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:17 pm 93. jharp:

91. Itchee

“In Canada 70% of the people have to carry supplemental insurance policies to cover the cost of prescription drugs and things like ambulance service”

You are a moron. I’ll not engage you again.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:21 pm 94. tanarg:

The Obama zombies are worried. They wouldn’t even BE here if they weren’t in a state of utter panic that their hero is crashing and burning.

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:37 pm 95. Warren Bonesteel:

I am continually astonished that the government continually plays a game of “Let’s you and him fight” with the left and the right, but that the government also holds all the bets and sets the odds.

What’s astonishing about that?

Like drunken fools, the American people fall for the scam each and every time…

Aug 23, 2009 - 5:56 pm 96. Horace Wells:

Yeah,
I’m sure God or Jesus would be so upset over universal health care he would case Spector to the 3rd level of hell. Just curious, the same Jesus who campaigned for tax cuts, pre-emptive wars and gun rights?

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:00 pm 97. Anonymous:

also, I may add, to paraphase this fat Texan warmonger’s screed:

“the supporters of health care reform are not hippies for hire, but mothers, construction workers, teachers, and citizens from every socioeconomic background who are concerned too”

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:03 pm 98. Itchee:

jharp says:

That was a proud moment in the annals of teabaggery.

Do you honestly believe a bunch of ignorant, racist, white trash, racist hillbillies shouting down our elected representatives, and I do mean shouting down, while offering nothing close to a reasonable debate or one question that has anything to do with the debate, is going to decide this thing?

Oh My!
You should calm down. You might bust a vessel.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:08 pm 99. AThinkingPerson:

“You are a moron. I’ll not engage you again.”~ Loony liberal proverb

It all boils down to the simple fact that the Conservatives and Independents are now organizing and it’s driving the Democrats INSANE!

Moral to the story: Whatever we’re doing to illicit such an angry response…KEEP IT UP!

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:08 pm 100. Itchee:

jharp says:

91. Itchee

“In Canada 70% of the people have to carry supplemental insurance policies to cover the cost of prescription drugs and things like ambulance service”

You are a moron. I’ll not engage you again.

I don’t recall you ever “engaging” me at all. Can you reference me to the post? Didn’t think so…..or did you mean you wouldn’t engage the truth again. Because that what I posted.

Go to your happy place for a while and your thinking may clear.
Just trying to help.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:12 pm 101. Now and Then:

Ah, freedom. What a word. What a concept! And the fighters for freedom, you know them as freedom fighters, they too deserve an exclamation point all their own. Imagine how proud I was to come home from a four-day fishing trip to see the valiant performance of our own Betsy McCaughey on The Daily Show with Mister “aren’t-I-funny” Jon Stewart.

Sure, she couldn’t produce he lane she claimed was in this dastardly health reform bill. Sure, she was humiliated on national TV. Sure, the right’s “death panel” harpy was proved to be the poster child for misinformation and fear-mongering. Yes, Jon Stewart came off as a reasoned and accurate facts machine

But by gum we need more heroes like her, right? More freedom fighters, and by golly the right’s got ‘em now – like Betsy – who lasted a full 18 hours after being skewered by Jon Stewart before she resigned in shame and disgrace – unveiled to reveal the complete sham both she and her argument are.

I hate to see someone demolished like she was, unless it was she who was, because Betsy McCaughey and her ilk are nothing more than right wing extremists peddling fear and hatred. Jon Stewart is the most dangerous man in America. Betsy McCrayz learned that the hard way. This windbag makes Orly Taitz look like Golda Mier.

Well done, Jon Stewart. We gone, Betsy McCaughey. You won’t be the last.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:21 pm 102. Moho:

Jharp. Indeed. What’s lost in all of these triumphant odes to teabagging deeds, is that while Democrat numbers have dropped, there’s been no corresponding rise in approval ratings of Republicans. The teabagging whackos have been succesful in creating some doubts in the American public with their non-stop screeching of mythological paranoiac threats to America, but they’ve only probably deepened the distaste Americans have for the stupidity that is the hallmark of the Republican movement.

That being said, Democrats still have an approval rating 10% higher than that of Republicans. Freedom fight all you want teabagging b****es, you’re still going to lose.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:26 pm 103. Anonymous:

Yup, you can always tell when jharp gets all wee weed up and into a panic. All the indefensible numbers get reissued. The redneck white hillbilly yarn gets tossed out. And always that topper. Teabaggers.

I doubt it has ever occurred to jharp that the reason his narrative is being rejected is that the people this half-baked elitist looks down on are successfully pressuring representatives because they know a lot more about the subject than the representatives are comfortable with. More than many reps know themselves actually. Certainly more than jharp does.

A little common sense goes a long way. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. jharp would have us believe it’s a bunny. Which is all one needs to know about his common sense.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:50 pm 104. vivo:

23. Parabellum:

“vivo, are you trying to claim that General Electric and General Motors are right wing companies?”

Look at their contributions for right wing causes.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:53 pm 105. AThinkingPerson:

“We gone, Betsy McCaughey.” (#101) We gone? Hmmmm….

I’m guessing you had a minor liberal brain fart in your haste to write your dissertation.

Might I suggest that you look into the classification of Jon Stewart? I think even he calls himself an entertainer and not a reporter of fact. If you’re comfortable getting your news from a comedy show, so be it but please don’t reference it here. It only demeans you.

Aug 23, 2009 - 6:53 pm 106. billslayer:

THANK YOU GOD! JHARP IS BACK! Lets talk about the teabag that Barry Dunham had all over his face! It belonged to Tony Rezko, right? Teabag? Isnt that why he took all that money from Tony Rezko? If not, why did he take that money, or does he just like a teabag on his face?

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:01 pm 107. Itchee:

101. Now and Then:

I have no idea who she is.
What were her claims?

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:09 pm 108. AThinkingPerson:

Just in case you ever doubted that the protests were working or having an impact, I submit today’s daily Presidential tracking poll.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:11 pm 109. vivo:

71. ~Paules:

The story continues.

“We need a plan,” whines vivo.

Let’s go visit that leprechaun Paules.

They all climb in their Maseratis.

They find the group assembled at the White Knight Members Only neighborhood bar.

Hi, Paules!

‘What the heck you want?’ Slurs someone obviously drunk. ‘Come back once the health plans are approved. Then I can get my AA counseling for free!’

‘Let me introduce you to my pal Sarita Palin’, says Paules, ’she lost her job and needs some networking. She’ll network with anyone, y’know’

‘You betcha!’ says an animated voice in the dark.

Sorry, story can’t be continued for lack of sponsorship. Stay tuned. Just wait for the FreedomWorks kick in.

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:27 pm 110. BC:

To HalifaxCB: You wrote “your argument is all suposition on your part with no supporting information (surprise, surprise) – except for the fact that Franklin was one cool dude – unless by calling him a propagandist and manipulator (sticks and stones, my friend) you are trying to pull a Jon Stewart on him, and consider him a war criminal.”

And this is *after* I had provided you a CIA link about Franklin’s skills as a propagandist and a manipulator. After calling you out on not clicking on the link, you then responded most lamely with “Well, you guessed wrong (surprise, surprise); I actually do follow up on links, unless they are to somethng inane, like a Krugman article….blah, blah, blah, BS, BS, BS….”

It’s obvious you don’t follow up on anything, as well as open mouth first, insert foot shortly thereafter. Then again, if everyone followed up on things and thought things true before responding in a debate, there would be no right wing web sites, or war, or hunger, or hate, and we would likely be already populating the nearest planetary systems.

But….

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:33 pm 111. Anonymous:

Back in ancient times, about 4 months ago, the constant refrain from the Obamacons was how his approval ratings were so high. Now that the jharp and moho types are getting all wee weed up about Obama being rejected, the the refrain is that the democrats are still a bit ahead of the republicans. I wonder what it will be when that number reverses. I bet it will be comedy gold.

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:35 pm 112. Itchee:

Hey Now1..and Then;

I googed betsy, and it seems that her resignation had nothing to do with her appearance on JS. Did you know that, or were you just being consciously deceptive?

It seems she had conflict of interest problems.

Aug 23, 2009 - 7:42 pm 113. SukieTawdry:

God bless Rick Santelli who at the time had no idea what he was unleashing on the governing class.

Think back to Apr. 15 when “teabaggers” were being ridiculed, maligned and written off by MSM and President Obama pretended he didn’t know anything about Tea Parties, what are they? Ha! I knew as I stood in a crowd 10,000 strong at the California State Capitol that this was not an isolated incident of middle-class pique nor a case of a pampered, over-wrought electorate having a momentary temper tantrum nor a flash-in-the-pan movement. We’re fed up and aren’t going to take it anymore. See you in DC!

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:05 pm 114. HalifaxCB:

BC @110;
LOL, got yer knickers in a twist, do ya? Didn’t realize Franklin actually did something more than write Poor Richard’s Almanack and fly kites in bad weather? All this is laid out in boys’ books from the 50’s and 60’s, but back then standing up for your country was generally considered a good thing. So maybe it’s been deleted from today’s syllabus, so it’s not really fair to blame you for that. But seeing as you didn’t know about Franklin, then you probably also didn’t know that if Adams, Franklin, and Jefferson hadn’t convinced the French to help supply the Americans the Revolution would have been a lot dicier? (And France wouldn’t have faced bankruptcy, and the French revolution most likely wouldn’t have happened, for better or worse, but that’s another story).

BTW – are you still procrastinating on your homework, re. finding the incident that generated Jefferson’s “Tree of Liberty” statenment? It’s actually a fascinating story, and not pretty for either side in this debate. But it is history, and worth understanding. Better hop to it quick, before your mom makes you clean your room.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:44 pm 115. vivo:

56. Big Red:

“36 ~Paules, COOOL. Can’t wait til the movie comes out. Hear Gilbert Godfrey has signed to play vivo.”

u r close. But it really needs two actors, Brad Pitt for the looks and Gilbert for the voice.

Aug 23, 2009 - 8:50 pm 116. Donna V.:

What’s lost in all of these triumphant odes to teabagging deeds, is that while Democrat numbers have dropped, there’s been no corresponding rise in approval ratings of Republicans.

Well, duh, genius. If you actually read what PMJ commenters have been saying about the tea parties, you’d find there is no great love for the GOP as it presently stands. Too many Republicans are simply Dem-Lite. If the GOP returns to its fundamental principles of small government and low spending, they will again become a majority party. Unfortunately, the RINOs don’t grasp this yet.

111:

Back in ancient times, about 4 months ago, the constant refrain from the Obamacons was how his approval ratings were so high. Now that the jharp and moho types are getting all wee weed up about Obama being rejected, the the refrain is that the democrats are still a bit ahead of the republicans. I wonder what it will be when that number reverses. I bet it will be comedy gold.

Oh, the trolls here are already comedy gold. They’ve gone from gloating and preening to their natural state of vicious idiocy. What I am truly savoring is how briefly they got to enjoy The Great Liberal Moment. Poor Obama, he holds the most powerful office in the world, but he can’t get things done – because of (supposedly) a handful of rednecks, a radio talk show host and a cable news network! Seems to me that shows The Won to be a bit lacking in political smarts, or stones, but no, let’s blame the tea parties, instead.

Of course, liberals are miserably unhappy, dissatisfied, utterly wee-weed up people anyway – you have to be to want the magic Federal Government to fix your life for you. Let’s add to their misery!

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:01 pm 117. DL13:

Many of those on the left think this is a Republican thing, but, they are dead wrong. We are for Core Conservative Values of small government, free enterprise, property rights, and our inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as guaranteed by our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The super rich and the far left whackos have gotten too big of a hold on our media and the politicians of both parties, and they could care less what party runs our nation because they would be the ones pulling the puppet strings. We are starting to wake up to this.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:30 pm 118. frank grimes:

great article hawkins,a perfect start to end an internet free vacation.(i had a great time,thanks for asking)

shheeesh!your story was bull#@#%t but still kinda funny.

BC.meh.

moho:uninformed and unentertaining-as usual.

jackDBAjharp:this “ignorant,rascist,hilbilly,gun toting,red-neck ‘winger”(did i forget something?) is simply a better human being than you,and no matter how hard you try…you’re still always going to be a beta.so get used to it you sniveling little hater.
BTW,you EVEN suck at trolling,how is that even possible?!

stick around suckers…this is just the beginning,your peoples’ reach always exceeds their grasp.
make sure the media lick-spittles keep cracking middle school jokes about teabagging, deride the people who actually work for living,and by all means…keep making pornos about the opposition,it just makes our jobs that much easier.

you ever watch a fight when one opponent is waaaay out of their league and doesn’t even realize it until it’s too late?

that’s YOU.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:33 pm 119. Anonymous:

Vivo we are STILL waiting for your answers and explanation on all the HIDDEN Obamanation documents and information dont keep running away. Surely you have had time to invent a story by now on why the Obamanation has HIDDEN so much and why he pays his Lawyers so much to CONTINUE HIDING them.

Aug 23, 2009 - 9:54 pm 120. frank grimes:

79.warren bonesteel:spot on!i couldn’t agree more.

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:11 pm 121. Anonymous:

Fantom #54, it was reassuring to read your commentary. I was in several unions during my college days. I welded at night to work my way through college and worked as a union carpenter when the steel mills shut down. At no time did I detect the Communist sentiments of the Progressive Socialists and their Union Goons of the SEIU. Union members were patriotic Americans and very helpful to struggling vets.

Recently, I have been boycotting all union made products and encourage all patriotic Americans to do the same, why support groups that favor the destruction of Freedom and Liberty. However, your idea of of trade guilds is appealing, I think you should explain the situation to your members before the actions of the SEIU cripples the trade union movement for generations.

From personal experience, I know there are loyal Americans in the trade unions; but they need to distance themselves from this Marxist Agenda before they suffer irreparable damage. I contributed a lot of money to the union pension funds, like many others that are reading this blog; I am sure there are many who feel they have a vested interest in the conduct of unions, taking a stand against Communism is a way to regain stature in the new political atmosphere of the future and will help insure the survival of the trade union movement in the future. Right now the trade unions are going down with a sinking ship, the USS Obama, a poorly designed piece of crap that should have never left the port of Chicago.

The Guild movement has a nice ring to it and doesn’t carry the negative connotations of Socialism and the Obama Nightmare.

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:43 pm 122. Brian:

“The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis…. …the “Cloward-Piven Strategy” seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.”

http://frontpage.americandaughter.com/?p=1878

Aug 23, 2009 - 10:58 pm 123. chilloutyo:

WOW. Cannot believe I’m blocked for using Ghandi approach.

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:06 pm 124. jodetoad:

If somebody is actually paying these trolls, he’s not getting his money’s worth. On the other hand, if they are doing it for free, they must not have much of a life. Imagine spending so much time accomplishing so little. Some of you find it amusing to argue with them, but their only accomplishment is confirming what we all already knew about leftists.

It reminds me of 7-year-olds arguing “Did not!” “Did so!” “Did not!” Did so! Nanner-nanner-nanner!”

As a redneck hillbilly, I’d like to point out the racism of the rednecked hillbilly remark above. Hillbillies have feelings too, you know. Where’s your compassion?! Have to get hillbillies added to the Hate Crimes bill.

Aug 23, 2009 - 11:32 pm 125. john m e:

little anxious voices cry their tiny mews of fear. the prattle and the pap is desperately flung. they wring their little lefty hands and brandish their wounded little egos for us to see. they cannot hide behind their their wounded puppet for he is in the vineyard of martha seeking succor from the
nearby clan. goodbye little sad people, goodbye.

Aug 24, 2009 - 12:09 am 126. Mike2:

109. vivo:

That was pathetic!

Aug 24, 2009 - 3:50 am 127. Steve DeMarcus:

A good article from Drudge about how things are shaping up for the administration and Barack in particular.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/The-thrill-is-gone-for-Obama-and-the-media_08_24-54389032.html
2010 is getting closer and I am looking forward to it. Also Harry Reid is trailing by 11 points from a GOP candidate and looks likely that it might only get worse.

Aug 24, 2009 - 4:00 am 128. Okie:

jharp, in case you hadn’t found a job protesting for Obama, or an ad for proof…

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/etc/1305256973.html

$9-$14 per hour, not bad!!!

Aug 24, 2009 - 5:05 am 129. Anonymous:

109. vivo

Well, I give your first attempt a C minus. Let me take a moment to school you. For satire and parody to be funny it must contain a nugget of truth about your target. This is why Jeff Foxworthy is funny, but your attempt falls flat. When you learn to use less venom and more insight, you’ll get better at it. Today is a work day for me, so I don’t have the leisure of time to show you how it’s done. Stay tuned . . .

Aug 24, 2009 - 6:03 am 130. Mongoose:

Jharp: When confronted with the fact and rational thought you just stamp your feet, and reiterate you “opinions” and confound them with fact. And, of course, they are not really “your opinions” at all, they are the agitprop of the hard left which you reflexively mouth.

This is the behavior of a little child.

This is the mark of your immaturity, intellectual and moral dishonesty and bankruptcy, and general vileness. America will in the end reject this.

You should be ashamed of yourself. I know that if your parents could see your behavior they sure would be ashamed of you.

Aug 24, 2009 - 6:08 am 131. William:

Right on! And it is about time. Good one AWR.

Aug 24, 2009 - 6:48 am 132. Bonner:

The passion conservatives have shown at town hall meetings has lifted me out of the misery that overtook me once Obama was elected. I was not politically involved in 1993, 1994, but this must have been what the conservative moment looked like then. I only hope the momentum continues.

Aug 24, 2009 - 6:56 am 133. Peter the Bubblehead:

114. HalifaxCB wrote:
BTW – are you still procrastinating on your homework, re. finding the incident that generated Jefferson’s “Tree of Liberty” statenment?

Peter offers: This should help a little;
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm

Aug 24, 2009 - 8:58 am 134. William II:

This is very uplifting. I for one, like “Bonner,” had presumed Obama’s election meant the shift in this country would be toward hard left: I never dreamed someone would actually awaken a sleeping giant (I didn’t even know there was a sleeping giant). As Hawkins put it, “it is about time.”

Aug 24, 2009 - 9:15 am 135. deguello:

#24 PAULES#31BIBIO44: Better a troll than an ahole!Says the irrepressible BIBIO.First you tell us your IQ:(44),then you tell us your life’s ambition,what next,are you going to reveal that your mother never treated her syphillis, when she gave birth to you?

Aug 24, 2009 - 9:19 am 136. deguello:

JHARP As usual, you’re out of tune : Have you taken your penicillin yet?VD’s a bitch ain’t it?

Aug 24, 2009 - 9:23 am 137. deguello:

MOHO:You are the expert on getting a brain,in your case it’s called,”affirmative action”,and like all “gifts” of libtard social policies, it doesn’t seeem to be working.BTW: post #102, was an outstanding feat of delusional thinking!`Even for you!

Aug 24, 2009 - 9:29 am 138. deguello:

HEY PJM folks: I have an idea to further ridicule the fool in the white house:Mail him a set of pampers,and enclose a drawing of an angry snake with the legend: on’t wee wee on me!

Aug 24, 2009 - 9:33 am 139. James Lowery:

1. HLH: “Yes, it is about time that conservatives fought back. I never dreamed that Obama’s election would help conservatives find their voice, but it did and they have.”

Really? You never dreamed that the election of an African American Democract would cause right-wing southern whites to go totally bat**** insane?

Clearly you don’t have much of an imagination. Or sense of history.

Aug 24, 2009 - 10:23 am 140. Moho:

Really? You never dreamed that the election of an African American Democract would cause right-wing southern whites to go totally bat**** insane?

Clearly you don’t have much of an imagination. Or sense of history.

James, thanks for writing that.

Aug 24, 2009 - 10:50 am 141. Moho:

Flor de Culo:

For You:

http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/NBC-WSJ_Poll.pdf
5. Do you generally approve or disapprove of the way that Republicans in Congress are handling the issue of health care reform?
Approve ……………………………………..
21
Disapprove …………………………………
62
Not sure ……………………………………
17

Reality pretty overwhelmingly favors my delusion while rejecting yours.

Aug 24, 2009 - 11:09 am 142. WestRight:

141-MOHO, BC, VIVIO etal…so if you believe the poll #’s and since the D’s have the majority in both houses and the grat leader in the WH, why oh why are so disturbed by that pitiful 21% that support the GOP? Why get tee’d off and continuously attack a bunch of irrelevant, old
‘teabaggers’? What are you so worried about, the Unicorns & Rainbows are just around the corner, right?
This old TB thinkg you have no confidence and in the back of that peanut brain of yours you know that BO’s Waterloo accurately describes the state of the D party today. It’s about to blow Scottie….hahahahahah.

Aug 24, 2009 - 12:24 pm 143. john m e:

the lights just came on at the end of the tunnel….the message is clear..
who shall lead he way is not so clear …..the finale of this spectacle shall be written by those who earn the trust of the mainstream folks, for we
have been reminded , without trust there can be no lasting freedom.

Aug 24, 2009 - 12:26 pm 144. Moho:

Westright–>My only weakness is a contempt for idiots. Sorry, I can’t help but insult them whenever I find them in my path.

Aug 24, 2009 - 12:29 pm 145. vivo:

119. Anonymous:

“Vivo we are STILL waiting for your answers and explanation on all the HIDDEN Obamanation(sic) documents”

How many times do I have to tell you that documents form outer space cannot be traced?

Keep watching Star Trek, maybe there is a clue there.

Aug 24, 2009 - 2:13 pm 146. vivo:

129. Anonymous:

“109. vivo

so I don’t have the leisure of time to show you how it’s done.”

As if I need your help.

Aug 24, 2009 - 2:16 pm 147. frank grimes:

139.james lowery:it must be real boring inside your head.

Aug 24, 2009 - 2:18 pm 148. Jason:

YES! And I know many of the “Freedom Fighters.” They are as Hawkins described them: hard working people who realize that the country they love will be wiped away with the passage of this single piece of legislation. They are parents who want their children to grow up in “the land of the free” just as they did. We must keep up the fight.

Aug 24, 2009 - 2:30 pm 149. rbell:

I agree. This is a watershed moment. However in the 60s the students were backed by left wing political ideologues whom were hiding in the weeds after the 50s and Joe McCarthy. They came out of the wood work and took over the movement and later the Democratic party. We don’t have any Conservative ideologues in the Republican party, just cheap politicians. This watershed movement will go no where given the current leadership.

Back in the 60s we had some remnants of a democracy. With a 95 percent reelection rate we have a self perpetuating ruling class. George Soros provided Obama with a 100 millions dollars for his election. His return is billions of tax payers dollars for oil exploration off the coast of Brazil. Nice return on his investment. Jeffry Imult provides 24 / 7 propaganda for Obama on NBC and he gets billions of loans for GE. Nice return on his investment. Where is the Republican opposition to all this? You can hear the crickets – can’t you?

Aug 24, 2009 - 2:38 pm 150. Moho:

Back in the 60s we had some remnants of a democracy.

Yeah, we sure did. It was called Jim Crow. Now, that was a democracy.

Aug 24, 2009 - 4:32 pm 151. Tish:

#109 – Vivo

Didn’t your mommy or daddy ever tell not to bite the hand that feeds you?

Aug 24, 2009 - 4:51 pm 152. Now and Then:

148. Jason:
“YES! And I know many of the “Freedom Fighters.” They are as Hawkins described them: hard working people who realize that the country they love will be wiped away with the passage of this single piece of legislation.”

Right, and that piece of legislation was The Patriot Act.

Aug 24, 2009 - 6:52 pm 153. rbell:

Moho: I was around in the 60’s and there was no Jim Crow laws where I lived. But there was prejudice like the kind you display in all of your mindless rantings. You are what Lenin referred to as the “Useful Idiots”. You should be happy. Your side won. No liberty, no freedom, and no prosperity. And of course no common sense. Back then I was a card carrying liberal who would read anything I.F. Stone published. However I went to college and ran into mindless drones who spewed their Anti-American bile on everyone they met. I went from left to right in college. Thank God I saw the light. Oh I’m sorry I said God. Hope you weren’t offended.

Aug 24, 2009 - 7:25 pm 154. RunningDogLackey:

Gag me, please. Millions of energized patriots. Sarah Palin will lead us. The sleeping giant has awakened. The hour is at hand. Yada-yada.

I hate to penalize the PJM crowd for style points, but this is the same tired “We the People” wet-dream that the marginalized, 19th-century flyover precincts of America have predicatbly hauled out like plastic flags and rotten bunting every time the world gets more complicated than a doorknob, or demands any level of engagement more sophisticated than Custer’s pursuit of Sitting Bull on the Powder River.

If the term “freedom fighters” is intended to glamorize the frightened, loudmouth yabbos who exhibit no more class or mental agility at Town Hall meetings than the villain in a professional wrestling chair-fight, then more power to you, because you’ve already lost.

The conservatives’ reliance on — and celebration of — uninformed emotionalism has always been and ever shall be their fatal weakness, since it makes patriotism seem low and repellent, and stirs revulsion in the heart of every sane citizen who understands that “America” is a noble experiment that can never be reduced to a recipe, and that the Founding Fathers had as little use for dumb mobs as they had for educated tyrants.

So, by all means, continue to remind us why we tossed McCarthy and refused to elect Goldwater. We must never forget that the USA is always a hair’s-breadth away from being ruled by hyper-nationalistic illiterates who worship gods and flags.

Aug 24, 2009 - 8:10 pm 155. ConSongWriter:

I refuse to engage in intellectual combat with an unarmed opponent(like most of the leftists I see posting here) Besides, I work for a living and don’t have the time to sit around in my underwear in my parents basement all day. For the rest of you Patriots, go to “goodguysusa.com” to hear the new Conservative anthem “We The People” Music BY Patriots FOR Patriots. We need your help now. Thanks

Aug 25, 2009 - 8:26 am 156. Moho:

Moho: I was around in the 60’s and there was no Jim Crow laws where I lived.

Oh, well I guess it didn’t exist. You’re right.

Aug 25, 2009 - 9:04 am 157. frank grimes:

runningoglackey:not a bad rant,you should stick around…we are real short in thoughtfull opposition around here.

the reason why conservitism is not more popular is because we do not rob the treasury to buy votes.plus,we aggressivly encourage people to take control their own lives.

not a popular message compared to a politition willing to destroy the nation’s financial future with entitlements just to secure power.

Aug 25, 2009 - 9:18 am 158. Mongoose:

Running Dog: What arrogance! you are in no position to “grade us” or “give us points”, you are just a child really. No one here is concerned with your “opinions” of them. We have no respect for you.

That is what you and the other feckless trolls here do not understand: Most of us here are at least as old as your parents, have done real things and have families of our own.

You are just an overgrown teenager to us.

I doubt that you will even do much more than you are doing right now.

You are a leftist because that demimonde (look it up, it is not very flattering) allows you to indulge you vanity–that is part of their game. It allows you to feel superior even though you have done nothing whatsoever of any sort that makes you superior to anyone. It is comic: You think that everyone else s waiting on your “judgment” of them. They are not. You think that someone you have dealt with an issue by these infinitive attempts at ridicule. You are behaving like a 14 year old. And I have another clue for you: Your socialist masters are just using you, they hold you in even more contempt than we here do.

You think that you are in the same group as the Leftist elites. You are not. You are just so much cannon-fodder to them. Once “the revolution” comes, the useful idiots are among the first to get deposed of. They cannot let people like you walk around after their real natures come out. You will have fulfilled your usefulness; you will be a loose end.

Marxism, like radical Islam, is a false morality which gives the “believer: the right to act out on his most sinful and base impulses. THis is why it has produced such bloody disasters in its history.

America will Heave this off. Where will you be then? What will you say then? Best to do a little soul searching now. Best to move over to the side if the right and the decent.

Your childish personnal attacks will avail you of little then.

Aug 26, 2009 - 6:06 am 159. wancow:

1. HLH said: Yes, it is about time that conservatives fought back. I never dreamed that Obama’s election would help conservatives find their voice, but it did and they have.

Joe Farrah (WND) did. So did Rabbie Daniel Lappin (KSFO).

I don’t believe for a New York Seccond I’m the only conservative who voted for Obama in hopes of what is happening right now. I think there were a whole lot of people like me out there, just like there were a whole lot of people who were out to punish the Republican Party in 2006.

I’m ecstatic with the results, by the way… it’s like watching a fantastic train wreck in slow motion… a train filled with idiots and bad guys!

Aug 26, 2009 - 11:09 am 160. Now and Then:

154. RunningDogLackey:

Wow! Nice stuff! Keep it coming. Mongoose, take a lesson.

Aug 26, 2009 - 1:33 pm

Write a Comment

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed)
Comments: