Freeing the Lockerbie Killer in the Name of ‘Compassion’
The same leaders appalled by al-Megrahi's release have pushed Israel to release thousands of prisoners as "humanitarian gestures."
“Highly objectionable,” said Obama. “Outrageous and disgusting,” came the White House response. “Incredibly offensive to Americans,” came yet another.
FBI Director Robert Mueller wrote that it was “as inexplicable as it is detrimental to the cause of justice,” that the action “makes a mockery of the rule of law” and “gives comfort to terrorists around the world.”
What riled everyone up last week was the release of Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi, who was serving a sentence due to expire no sooner than 2026. Meanwhile, al-Megrahi is himself due to expire in three months. The cause: prostate cancer. “Mr. Al-Megrahi now faces a sentence imposed by a higher power. It is one that no court, in any jurisdiction, in any land, could revoke or overrule. It is terminal, final and irrevocable. He is going to die.” These were the words of Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill stating his reasons for releasing the convicted terrorist on compassionate grounds. He went on to state:
Mr. Al-Megrahi did not show his victims any comfort or compassion. They were not allowed to return to the bosom of their families to see out their lives, let alone their dying days. No compassion was shown by him to them.
But, that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him and his family in his final days.
Our justice system demands that judgment be imposed but compassion be available. Our beliefs dictate that justice be served, but mercy be shown. Compassion and mercy are about upholding the beliefs that we seek to live by, remaining true to our values as a people. No matter the severity of the provocation or the atrocity perpetrated.
For these reasons — and these reasons alone — it is my decision that Mr Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al-Megrahi, convicted in 2001 for the Lockerbie bombing, now terminally ill with prostate cancer, be released on compassionate grounds and allowed to return to Libya to die.
It is worth noting that al-Megrahi at all times denied his involvement and was scheduled to commence an appeal this year which would have likely lasted into 2010, well beyond the time he had left on this earth. It is also worth noting that he had a decent chance at winning his appeal after some doubt arose (perhaps even “reasonable doubt”) regarding a key piece of evidence linking al-Megrahi to the bombing (a Mebo MST-13 timer). Added to this were questions relating to the testimony and credibility of key witnesses and arguments relating to proper process.
In this light, in the absence of time for a proper appeal process to be completed, a compassionate release does not seem so unreasonable.
Contrast this to the unreasonable demands made on Israel by the U.S. and the international community for the release of terrorists, many with blood on their hands, as “humanitarian gestures.” Unlike al-Megrahi, these men’s guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt, these men are likely to live many more years, and these men are likely to strike again. And they have.
Israel released one thousand al-Megrahis in 1985, 429 in 1997, 200 in 1998, 600 in 1999, 500 in 2005, and 422 in 2008 (and this list is not exhaustive). Shortly after release in 1985, a Palestinian terrorist — three days into freedom — turned up in an Israeli hospital bed having blown himself up while preparing an improvised explosive device.
As well as the concessional releases on humanitarian grounds, Israel has chosen to release thousands of Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners in prisoner swaps. The table below shows the lengths that Israel will go for the sake of one of its men, a fact that did not go unobserved by Samir Kuntar, that most notorious of terrorists who commented in an interview to Hezbollah’s satellite television network:
I’m jealous of the Zionists, who don’t spare any effort in bringing back captured soldiers or soldiers’ bodies. Seriously, we are jealous of our enemy and its care for a [body] and how it goes to the end of the world in order to return it, and of its concerns for captives and how it will go to the very edge to bring them back.
| Year | Arab | Israeli |
| 1983 | 4,600 | 6 |
| 1985 | 1,150 | 3 |
| 1991 | 51 | Proof of death of 1 soldier |
| 1996 | 65 | 2 remains |
| 2004 | 436 & 59 remains | 1 & 3 remains |
| 2008 | 5 & 200 remains | 2 remains |
| 2009 (anticipated) | ~450 | 1 |
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Eli Bernstein is a commentator on Middle Eastern affairs and Energy Economics. He can be contacted at eli.bernstein@gmail.com.
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54 Comments
1. Pragmatist:Concerning the Prostate Cancer it seems that only ONE Doctor gave the ‘three months to live prognosis’ and she/he is NOT a prostate cancer expert. Look out for the miracle cure by brilliant Libyan doctors and yet more scorn being poured on the Dhimmie PC MC moonbat JOCKS. The pantomime just continues to get funnier and funnier. For example on one blog I pointed out that the Act of Devolution left International affairs the responsibility of the UK Government not the Scottish Assembly. But a no doubt PC MC moonbat JOCK tried to argue that since the debris landed on Scotland it was an internal Scottish domestic issue. Never mind the fact that it was an American Aircraft brought down by a Libyan National en route from a foreign country and that apart from Americans other nationalities died too and of course the moonbat JOCKS negotiated his release with Libya which last time I looked was not in Scotland. Now if that’s not INTERNATIONAL affair what the hell is? Someone should tell those dhimmie moonbats JOCKS then when you are in a hole its advisable to stop digging.
Aug 27, 2009 - 2:47 am 2. barton:Well, you know, he was a first offender. What the hell, we should free Charlie Manson too. And give him Roman Polansky’s address. And why not Sirhan Sirhan. He only shot one guy? All first offenders. All they need is counseling and maybe a 12 step program. and of course they have to promise not to be bad again. After all, the criminal justice system is all about rehabilitation, not vengeance, isn’t it?
Aug 27, 2009 - 3:08 am 3. Eli Bernstein:Guys, you missed the point!
I am not necessarily advocating Al Megrahi’s release but am highlighting the hypocrisy of condemning preaching Scotland while the US forces its ally to do this year after year, for criminals who are not dying and are likely to repeat; for crimes whose wounds are still fresh.
Back in my criminal law days, I learned (perhaps from Michel Foucault) there are a number of reasons why we choose to punish/imprison the guilty: vengeance; deterrence; rehabilitation; and societal protection.
- Vengeance: I concede to you that in releasing the man on compassionate grounds, this purpose is not served
- Rehabilitation: This was never the purpose as he was not intentioned to enter society again
- Deterrence: While the release of Palestinian terrorists by Israel clearly affects this (as few people ever serve their full sentences); the release of a dying man is unlikely to motivate others
- Societal protection: The release of terrorists who come back three days later to blow you up is problematic. The release of a man who will have his prostate blown up in three months is less problematic.
There is more than vengeance in punishment!
Aug 27, 2009 - 4:17 am 4. TTom:Hey pal, the only thing I ask of Israel is to stand up and dispatch the murderous scum that attack innocent Israelis. I don’t think that’s asking too much. I sure as s**t do not ask Israel to release murderous scum.
Aug 27, 2009 - 4:33 am 5. David P:Jewish blood is still cheap demonstrated by a global standard of institutionalized bias against Israel. Humanity has leveled a predictable legacy of blood libels & slander towards us, asserting a compassionate unworthiness for our collective existence.
Aug 27, 2009 - 4:37 am 6. Jamie W.:Pragmatist: it’s worse than that. Prostate cancer, properly treated, has a 100% 5-year survival rate. al-Megrahi was diagnosed a while back; they were discussing this in late 2008. In April, he was given “a few weeks.” Now he’s given 3 months. I think the terminal diagnosis is complete bull crap, and yes, he will “miraculously” recover to live a long and productive – if terrorism can be termed such – life.
Bernstein: every damn terrorist who kills or causes the death of an innocent, especially a child, should die. Period. That’s the way most Americans think. It’s our stupid politicians and the soft-n-mushy Palestinian apologists who override the majority of us. Death is the best deterrence that I know. Once he’s no longer breathing, he can no longer kill — 100% recidivist-proof. It also seems to be the only thing radical Muslims understand; Qadafi was a good boy when he was scared of Bush, but now that the wimp is in charge, he’s rattling his saber again.
Aug 27, 2009 - 5:02 am 7. genghis:Better solution: Execute them. Try them, convict them and execute them. That would more humane. If you will recall during the Sacco-Vanzetti affair, all of Western Europe was inflamed and outraged at the treatment of these two anarchists. Outraged because, in part, once having been found guilty and again on appeal, they were not promptly executed but were ‘tortured’ because of endless additional appeals. The Euros thought that prolonging S/V’s prison time not knowing their ultimate outcome was barbaric. Certain crimes demand the ultimate penalty. And that penalty should not be made pleasant or comfortable. Some crimes demand vengeance. Period. The death penalty is final and precludes the meddling of politcal hacks later on when the horror of the original crime is but a sterile memory, and the do-gooders start crawling out of the woodwork. And then there is Feteke.
Aug 27, 2009 - 5:58 am 8. zedx:A country that believes it can treat alleged terrorists in any way it sees fit, and then fails to deal with the truth of its actions, is a poor candidate in the moral leadership stakes. Especially given the reception afforded to Cpt Rogers after killing 290 innocent men, women and children not too mention Mr.McCain and six other US senators recent meeting and conclusion of an arms deal with, er, Libya. Those same who now make such vitriolic attacks on Scotland from America should stop to think for a change. They would also do well to acqaint themselves with the Scottish Criminal Review Commissions report on the Lockerbie trial.
Aug 27, 2009 - 7:47 am 9. Bohemond:Any politician who utters the word “compassion” in any context should immediately adjudged demented and removed from office. How much state idiocy has been committed in the name of “compassion?” What it really is, of course, is the leftist weasel-word for ‘denial of individual responsibility.’
- “Societal protection: The release of terrorists who come back three days later to blow you up is problematic. The release of a man who will have his prostate blown up in three months is less problematic.”
Um, a terrorist with a terminal condition would make an almost ideal suicide bomber, you know.
Aug 27, 2009 - 7:58 am 10. Bohemond:“A country that believes it can treat alleged terrorists in any way it sees fit, and then fails to deal with the truth of its actions, is a poor candidate in the moral leadership stakes”
What pibble-pabble!
It’s nauseating to hear the twisted sanctimony of leftist twits, cimbing onto a gimcrack moral hobby-horse to excuse their lack of spine and unwillingness to confront evil with justice. And it’s sick, sick, SICK to forge a fraudulent equivalency between the cold-blooded deliberate mass murder over Lockerbie with the Vincennes incident. You dishonest, morally depraved prat. How DARE you?
Al-Qaeda terrorists are classed as francs-tireurs under the Hague and Geneva conventions, and anything the United States does with them short of summarily stringing them up (as is our complete right) is, to borrow a word, ‘compassionate.’
Aug 27, 2009 - 8:08 am 11. BettyBlue:What? We’re losing the “Moral leadership” sweepstakes?
You mean all those “wonderful” countries with completely spotless pasts, such as Germany, Russia, Cuba, China will no longer admire us? You mean groups like Al-Queda and the Taliban will no longer be wowed by our moral purity, and shining decency? The Palestinians—who urge their own kids to become homicide bombers—will go, “tut-tut” over our lack of humanity, and countries like Pakistan will waggle a reproving finger at us—as they continue to work towards getting nuclear weapons?
We’re losing the moral leadership sweepstakes, boo-hoo, boo-hooo! The UN will not give us a pony; we won’t even get a shiny new nickel, sob, sob!
Oh, the humanity!
/The above was sarc. Sane people realize that, but I know the Leftists need to be told.
Aug 27, 2009 - 8:27 am 12. BettyBlue:But, maybe some day, if we’re really, really good, and compassionate, and nicens and kind to all terrorists—-why, maybe on that wonderful day, we’ll be considered almost as moral leaders as Qaddaffi, and Ahmadenijad! Maybe, some day, the mad mullahs of Iran will like us, they’ll REALLY like us, and the Saudi oligarchs will give us a pat on the head, and tell us what good lil’ Dhimmis we are!
Won’t that be swell?
/Sarc.
Aug 27, 2009 - 8:30 am 13. mingus:ZEDX: did mean Mr. Rogers??? Oh, you virtuous Lefties are just so, so wholesome. Cowards, yes, but self-satisfied smug and content with your moral superiority.
Aug 27, 2009 - 8:31 am 14. BettyBlue:Sultan Knish has a very good article, today, about the folly of showing compassion to terrorists; head over to his website, and scroll down. It’s very good.
Aug 27, 2009 - 8:31 am 15. BettyBlue:What can one say to Scotland’s superior moral leadership (and the Left’s self-satisfied smugness in general) except. . . wowzers?
/Sarc. That’s a joke, son!
(Do check out the Sultan Knish post.)
Aug 27, 2009 - 8:57 am 16. Tina Trent:“The release of a dying man is unlikely to motivate others.”
Really? The cheering on the streets was not motivation? The contempt heaped on the American victims throughout the European press, where they were denounced for American sins from slavery to Mai Lai, where the families’ horror at his release was gleefully celebrated, by our allies and enemies — that means nothing?
Foucault was an intellectually bankrupt buffoon. Have your say about the Israelis. Do not do it on other victims’ backs by policing them and lecturing them because you have some other bone to pick. You risk doing precisely what you denounce in others. This is a deeply troubling argument.
Aug 27, 2009 - 9:00 am 17. Lynn:Complain, complain, complain, geez a group of people want to wipe Israel and the Jewish People from the face of the eath, they worship a god who wants them to wipe Israel and the Jewish People from the face of the earth for his glory, they want cooperation from the rest of the world to wipe Israel and the Jewish People from the face of the earth, and all you do is complain.
Pass out the sweets, and try to get rid of the bitter taste of “selective compassion” the world expresses for the “Cult of Death”.
Aug 27, 2009 - 9:08 am 18. Kaddafi delenda est:MacAskill’s “compassionate release” lie was a thin veil for the real ‘quid pro quo’. The Lockerbie bomber’s release is one of several extortion payments on Kaddafi’s terrorist demands that secured release of (what Saif Ghadafi admitted) were brutally prison-raped and tortured EU nurse hostages.
=======
FLASHBACK 2007: Qaddafi Wants Money and Lockerbie Attacker for Nurses’ Release
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=75328
Muammar Qaddafi has officially stated his conditions for the release of the five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor sentenced to death in Libya, a website of the Libyan opposition claims.
Cited by the Bulgarian national radio, the site claims that Qaddafi has sent an official note to the EU country members and the US, requesting compensations for the families of the HIV-infected children and the release of the terrorist from Lockerbie… The UK should help with the release of the Lockerbie bomber, the note also says. He could be released because he has already served his sentence, or he could receive amnesty, or be extradited to Libya, Qaddafi suggests.
=====
This bald-faced hostage extortion payoff does not bode well for Iran’s three American hostages. Westerners should expect more of this old school hostage extortion game in the future… because it clearly works.
/once again, terrorism pays… handsomely
Aug 27, 2009 - 9:32 am 19. Nemo me impune lacessit:The sober Scottish Lords– who patiently heard the evidence and convicted Megrahi– sat beneath the ancient Scottish motto “Nemo Me Impune Lacessit” which roughly translates as “Don’t cut at me and expect to get away with it.”
Now in a fit of delusional sentimentalism (or a drunken stupor on cheap linoleum– or both) one stinking “drunk and disorderly” soccer yob ‘Justice’ Minister tosses centuries of Scottish principle down the filthiest toilet in Edinburgh.
/disgraceful
Aug 27, 2009 - 9:36 am 20. Ruvy:Eli,
Why can’t you just come out with the solution? Why can’t you just say that anyone convicted of terrorism in Israel deserves to die? Why should we feed the bastards and let them live? Why? So they can give each other hi-fives and laugh with contempt at the stupid Zionists who no longer have any resolve?
Kill the scum and bury them in pig manure, in special cemeteries. Then move their families away from their clans so hostile clans will punish the families with their normal hostility.
Potential terrorists need to know very clearly that vengeance will be taken on every terrorist while he lives, that he will surely die, and after he dies, we will humiliate him and his family.
Aug 27, 2009 - 9:49 am 21. BettyBlue:I know, Lynn, I know! If only all those bad complainers would stop complaining! Then we’d all be qualified for moral leadership, and we could sing. . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DC-pIvNODU
Aug 27, 2009 - 11:55 am 22. myth buster:I’ll one up the idea of executing them. The terrorists should be compelled to repay us for waging war against us. This should be done in one of two ways- either working them to death performing slave labor for us, twenty hours a day with minimal or non-existent rations, or else have their organs removed to be transplanted into American patients. I prefer the latter, since I enjoy the sweet irony of people who tried to kill Americans being compelled to save American lives, but not everyone has healthy enough organs to qualify.
Aug 27, 2009 - 12:31 pm 23. Lynn:Exactly BettyBlue, but why do I get the feeling we would end up hitting ourselves on the head with a hammer, to put us out of our happy happy joy.
Aug 27, 2009 - 1:52 pm 24. BettyBlue:LOL, probably because we would, Lynn!
Aug 27, 2009 - 4:56 pm 25. zedx:Interesting accusations of ‘leftie’ on this hallowed portal. Yet it seems strange when I’ve wandered into those more akin to Stalinist thinking of infallibility of police, prosecutors and government. It is a fatuous and hysterical claim that the release of Megrahi will give comfort to terrorists: what will actually give them comfort is the Faustian pact of successive American and British governments to forgive the entire chain of command in the Libyan intelligence service and government so as to encourage business opportunities. If you cheerfully sup with the devil, you…
Aug 28, 2009 - 3:20 am 26. kimmy:ZEDX:
Yeah, you’re right. We should just give this land back to the indians whom we stole it from, and move on. And since you seem to be a purist, perhaps you would consider relocating, say perhaps, to Syria or Libya, and try to enlighten those folk. A critical mind such as yours is a rare commodity.
Aug 28, 2009 - 4:13 am 27. Pragmatist:Where is all your cries of compassion now JOCKS and moonbat ‘libtards’ and just how STUPID do you feel?
Gordon Brown under pressure over Lockerbie bomber after Gaddafi son reveals prisoner swap deal WAS linked to oil
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209651/Gordon-Brown-pressure-Lockerbie-bomber-Gaddafi-son-reveals-prisoner-swap-deal-WAS-linked-oil.html#ixzz0PTdv4WTd
Aug 28, 2009 - 4:44 am 28. Alan Lothian:Well, I’m a Scot, so I’d probably be well advised to keep my head below the parapet. FWIW, I’d have released Megrahi, too, although not until he was a lot sicker than he appears to be. There’s a lot of stinking fish around the whole Lockerbie business, as others have pointed out. “zdex” makes an excellent point there, and there are good arguments that Syria and Iran had far dirtier hands than the spear carrier released by “Justice Minister” McCaskill (nb really just a glorified local councillor).
Over here in the UK, though, while general public opinion seems to be against the release, there’s been a lot of legitimate grumbling about US hypocrisy. As in, how many IRA terrorists were extradited to your firmest ally? Answer: none. You didn’t have to release them on compassionate grounds, since you never detained them. (For varying definitions of “you”, of course.) And who put all that money into NORAID, much of it spent on arms supplied by dear old Libya? Answer that yourselves.
Aug 28, 2009 - 5:15 am 29. Pragmatist:So what are you saying Alan of Lothian a Scottish Court made a mistake in convicting him in the first place? Ccome on there is no wriggle room for Scotland left. First you claim you released him you are so compassionate then you say it was all a mistake convicting himself in the first place. Now you are trying to pass the buck because the sh1t has hit the fan. You cant have it every way. So dont try the moral equivalence argument it just does not work.
Aug 28, 2009 - 6:18 am 30. BettyBlue:If the Scottish court did make a mistake convicting him, then they should have exonerated him openly, in court, presenting the evidence in court, not just shuffling him off under some compassion excuse.
And, Alan, this has nothing to do with the IRA, and trying to play the moral equivalence card, and claiming it was all to pay back us eeeeevil American for not extraditing the IRA, is garbage. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and the self-righteous indignation doesn’t really fly—not when it’s beginning to look more and more like the whole thing was a deal for Libyan oil; Take a look at the link posted by Pragmatist, #27.
Now what was that about hypocrisy? Hmmmmmmm?
Aug 28, 2009 - 8:23 am 31. BettyBlue:Actually, it’s kind’ve funny. The Brits and Scots are thumping their chests and claiming it was all because of compassion, whereas Qaddafi’s son is quite openly saying it was all about the oil. Ummm, somebody’s not telling the truth here. It’s becoming a farce.
Doesn’t sound like Libya much respects Great Britain, or Scotland, by the way.
Aug 28, 2009 - 8:27 am 32. BettyBlue:Oh, and Pragmatist? I love the picture in your link of Qaddaffi’s son, and the Lockerbie bomber, grinning and holding hands, as if they’re about to give each other a great, big, sloppy kiss?
Also, the one of grinning Tony Blair holding hands with Qaddaffi. Just love and warm fuzzies all around, LOL!
Aug 28, 2009 - 8:33 am 33. Alan Lothian:Pragmatist:
Aug 28, 2009 - 8:33 am 34. Pragmatist:I don’t quite see how I am passing any sort of buck. I said I’d have released him on compassionate grounds, too, but I’d have waited until he was a lot sicker. As for the “mistake” made by a Scottish court, there *was* an appeal grinding through based on some quite tricky bits of evidence that may/may not have been faked. The appeal, which process Megrahi might or might not have lived long enough to see through, has now conveniently been permanently shelved. As I said, there’s a lot of stinking fish around the whole business. Which just might spill out into a major political scandal for the British government, although that remains to be seen, especially since said government is so deep in the shit that another shovelful might not even be noticed.
I at no point used any sort of moral equivalence argument. I did describe what is quite a common feeling in the UK, even among those angry at Megrahi’s release, over US moral indignation. Not the same thing at all.
Alan if you don’t call castigating Americans for their support of the IRA when trying to defend the moonbat JOCKS releasing a Terrorist murdering SCUM ‘moral equivalence’ then you have no idea what ‘moral equivalence ‘ means. So much for Scottish education. First we had the JOCKS claiming holier and more compassionate than thou, then claiming it was a Scottish internal matter and nothing to do wiy=th anyone else , then when the sh1t hits the fan trying to pass the buck to Gordon McBroon by coincidence another PCMC Left wing moonbat JOCK. If it wasn’t so serious the whole pantomime would be hilarious. Egotistical nationalistic JOCKS making complete fools of themselves.
Aug 28, 2009 - 9:02 am 35. Pragmatist:Alan dont squirm and try to deviate he WAS convicted by a Scottish Court he had NOT had an appeal approved by ANY Court he was therefor STILL Guilty. If we followed your convoluted logic every guy who had a bad cold and appealed his conviction would automatically be not guilty and released on compassionate grounds. Now even an uneducated JOCK like you cant be that stupid.
Aug 28, 2009 - 9:12 am 36. BettyBlue:Sorry, Alan, you’ve been punked. The Libyans themselves are saying it was all about oil. Look at the picture in that link, look at Qaddaffi’s son holding the Lockerbie bomber’s hand, all teary-eyed and smiling! They got their beloved terrorist back, and, now that they’ve got him, they don’t care about you guys anymore. They’re probably not gonna give you that oil, either—or they’ll stick a higher price tag, on it.
They didn’t even bother to disguise their open celebrating, though they were asked not to. So, Blair’s embrassed? (as well he should be!) What do they care?
Face it, they’re just not into you!
Aug 28, 2009 - 9:21 am 37. BettyBlue:Reports are also starting to come out that the bomber may not really be that sick. It’s not about compassion, it’s not about appeals, or even the IRA!
It’s all about the oil!
Aug 28, 2009 - 9:25 am 38. BettyBlue:Frankly, I suspect that, in the future, many Americans are going to have a great big horse laugh about British, and Scottish, hypocrisy, when they start lecturing us about morality, compassion, etc., etc. etc. Really, I’m just describing a common feeling. . .
Aug 28, 2009 - 9:28 am 39. Alan Lothian:I will try to reply to both “Pragmatist” and “BettyBlue” at the same time, although that might be difficult. At least Betty, if I may call “her” that, does not SHOUT.
Point 1. I am not trying to defend what P calls “the moonbat jocks” (caps deleted). As far as compassionate release is concerned, I will go for it, but only in the very last stages of a life. I personally would not be surprised if Megrahi makes a miracle recovery. The Scottish “government” — by the way, and this may be a detail of UK politics that has escaped you — is in fact the Scottish Executive, roughly but not precisely equivalent to a US state government. This is its first parade on the international stage, and it is obvious to the meanest intellect that it has made a complete balls of it. Particularly after the hero’s welcome nonsense: entirely predictable by the very meanest of intellects.
Point 2. The whole business of Megrahi’s trial involved all sorts of politics, none of them nice. He was the only person convicted, but nobody imagined he was any sort of mastermind. For reasons best known to himself, Kaddafi (choose your own spelling) decided to throw him to the wolves. As a senior member of Libyan intelligence,he had something nasty coming, at least as far as I am concerned. I remember Yvonne Fletcher, the young London policewoman who was shot dead in St James Square back in the 1980s by a nutjob in the Libyan Embassy who escaped using diplomatic immunity. But that is neither here nor there in terms of civilized jurisprudence.
Point 2:b. Eli Bernstein, who wrote the piece we are all responding to, is at least somewhat of my turn of mind. Particularly with reference to Megrahi’s aborted appeal. Nasty things in danger of coming out of the woodwork.
Point 3. There is a reason why I mentioned “stinking fish” in both my previous posts, which brings me to Betty. Of course oil, wheels and deals are involved. I have not been “punked” as you so neatly put it. (I may steal that locution, if it’s all right with you.) I have suspected just this sort of thing all along. Regardless of my opinions on “compassion”, I think the British government is playing sneaky tricks and relying on a bozo in Scotland to cover its arse. Or “ass”, as you Americans put it, and why not?
Point 4. This to “Pragmatist”, but first an aside: I am not Alan of Lothian (although I do like it, makes me sound like a 19th-century Laird, perhaps with droits de seigneur and all that) my real name *is* Alan Lothian, which probably makes me unique here. You can find me on the web if you look. I’m the writer of the three: the other two are local government official and rugby player.
Back to Point 4: I am not squirming about anything. I rather fancy I have a better idea than you do as to the meaning of “moral equivalence”. As for your attempt to splay the argument so that I think the common cold is a justification for the release of prisoners, that is one of many foolish and dishonest tricks (extensio ad absurdem, if I recall correctly) admirably described in “Straight and Crooked Thinking”, by Robert H. Thouless, published initially in 1930 and still, I believe, in print. In it he lists a number of dishonest arguments, some of them considerably more subtle than the one you chose, which you may want to add to your armoury.
Point 5: the IRA, and American support for it. Strictly speaking, nothing to do with the present case, but politics is funny and people have longer memories than media beepwits imagine. Now, I am aware that the US government did not send dollars to Libya to buy weapons and explosives for the terrorists who on several occasions frightened the life out of me. But NORAID most assuredly did. And the US would not extradite a single IRA terrorist to the UK, over a period of something like 30 years. The US is being accused of hypocrisy, not outright wickedness.
Aug 28, 2009 - 2:35 pm 40. Ilsa:Count yourself lucky, Pragmatist, that you are only dealing with “an uneducated JOCK”, as you put it. An educated one would already have had you for breakfast.
The path to Victory is FETEKE. Accept no substitues.
Aug 28, 2009 - 2:49 pm 41. carla:The path to victory is FETEKE. Eveything else is bull. Wake up America.
Aug 28, 2009 - 3:01 pm 42. Pragmatist:Sorry Alan Lothian BTW I said Alan OF Lothian because it is a very common practice on Blogs for people to use a first name followed by where you are from and much less common for people to use their real first and surnames Lothian is a Scottish region so it was a logical assumption by me that you were doing so to confirm your Scottishness. As for all your other apologetics thats just what they are apologetics you have not in any way shape or form convinced anyone that you have not and in fact continue to use ‘moral equivalence ‘ as an argument. What the Americans do or do not do now or in the past has absolutely no relevance to Scottish stupidity in the present and to try and use it as an excuse or even to refer to it in the same piece is ‘moral equivalence’ you yourself prove you are doing this this by accusing the Americans of hypocrisy. How can they be hypocritical if you are not comparing the two scenarios so my accusation about your lack of education is therefore fully justified. I took the EXTREME example of a guy with a cold deliberately to highlight the stupidity and illogical nature of your comments about compassionate release. So Betty Blue was absolutely right you have been ‘punked’ and in fact just been ‘punked’ again. Not only did you stupidly use ‘moral equivalence’ initially but you persist in using it even after you have been made a fool of for using it in the first place. Uneducated JOCK well yes I think you are and you continue to prove it yourself.
Aug 29, 2009 - 12:31 am 43. Caestal:Alan, sorry for the silly name-calling, it is a bad habit around here. I think everyone here agrees with you that it just ain’t right, him being released when and how he was. There is room for argument on whether he should be released at all, though I reckon that in the end, that would be more of an internal decision. I would hate to be the politician who had done it, given the obvious outrage it has caused…
Aug 29, 2009 - 1:40 am 44. Eli:The quality of mercy is not strained and all, as the saying goes, but I would find myself straining to extend compassion to anyone involved in the bombing, even if they were a “bit player.”
As to the IRA, I don’t reckon it has anything to do with this discussion, but then I don’t think you are saying it does; just that it has to do with the Scottish mood?
As I commented above, my article was primarily meant to examine the relative merits of the two scenarios: the release of al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds vs. The release of terrorists as a humanitarian gesture.
Judging by the responses on this forum to date, I completely missed the mark in conveying my message. There is not one comment examining the compromises Israel has been forced to make for in this regard and US complicity in the build-up of international pressure on “goodwill gestures” (particularly under the current administration).
In a debate on the absolute merits of releasing al-Megrahi, I’d probably side with Sir Alan of Lothian III. The Lockerbie bombing is far from an “open and shut case”. Remember this is a criminal case, so saying he probably did it is not enough. We need certainty beyond reasonable doubt – and I think some doubt exists. Whether it is reasonable or not was up to good appeal judges to determine but to the extent that an appeal process could not be completed, there is some merit in compassionate release (Ok, perhaps with more strings attached to ensure he did not receive a hero’s welcome).
Now it is very possible that this deal was influenced by UK’s commercial interests, and if that was the only motive, I would strongly oppose the deal. Remember too that US pressure on Israel may also have something to do with appeasing the Saudis.
Anyway, let the debate continue on a more respectful tone…
Eli
P.S. Without sounding unintelligent, incoherent or unknowledgeable – what is this FETEKE you speak of. The fountain of knowledge, Google, suggests you may be referring to an independent petroleum consulting firm or a renowned mathematician and monetary scientist
Aug 29, 2009 - 6:23 am 45. Alan Lothian:Thanks, Caestal. You have it exactly. Of course the IRA (I just typo-ed and corrected IRS there, hmmm) stuff has nothing to do with the present situation, but people over here do remember US attitudes, which was my point.
To Eli: It is marvellous to be promoted to Sir Alan of Lothian III, but I have neither the merit nor the capacity for bribery needed to acquire a knighthood. More to the point: I got into this discussion to say what people on the other side of the Atlantic think about the Megrahi release. As far as I know, I am the only non-American (there’s a phrase, not un-American
on this thread. Your points about Israel are well taken by this party. I have odd, deep and too hard to explain connections with that troubled and difficult country, and unlike many people who spout forth on the subject I have actually been there, albeit about 20 years ago. FWIW I think any government headed by any member of the Netanyahu clan is a disaster. I also think that Euro bribes to lunatic terrorists (not necessarily a tautology: terrorism isn’t always lunacy, but that brings us back to Israel) funds potentially worse disasters. But to get to your argument about Israel’s being pressurized to release all sorts of bad chaps: what the hell else are they going to do with them? NB: I am not Jewish, but actually (it surprises many people) a church-going Scots Presbyterian. Who does not live in Scotland but if push comes to shove and he has to be pro- or anti-Israel comes down resolutely pro. With reservations, of course. That’s resolution for you in 2009.
And to “Pragmatist”: you’ve lost the argument. I strongly recommend any decent primer on the use of the paragraph: it would help give your ramblings at least a modicum of clarity.
Aug 29, 2009 - 3:03 pm 46. BettyBlue:This just in; yes, it was all about oil, not compassion. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814974.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797084
Aug 29, 2009 - 4:27 pm 47. BettyBlue:So, it wasn’t about compassion, it wasn’t about his health, or the evidence, or doubts about his guilt (which, for the umpteenth time, if there were any real doubts, those should have been cleared up in court.)
It was all about the oil. And Britain (and Scotland) got punked, because, of course, there’s no way to make sure these countries aren’t going to celebrate their golden-boy terrorists once they arrive home (what are we going to do? Bomb them, for celebrating their hero’s return) Anyway, why should they be afraid? They know England (and America, vis-a-vis the Saudis) will knuckle under for oil; that they’re just paper tigers, who won’t do a thing.
And terrorists will continue to be released, whether they’re imprisoned in Israel, or Scotland.
I hope, at least, after this, the “compassion” excuse, and all the “My, aren’t we such fine, compassionate people, letting these terrorists go!” will be dropped.
Aug 29, 2009 - 4:34 pm 48. Dave Surls:“Guys, you missed the point!”
I got your point.
I support death for all terrorists. No mercy. No releases. No deals.
If my government pressures Israel to release captured terrorists for ANY reason, then I vehemently disagree with my government.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the political clout to change the policies of the U.S. government. I would if I could.
Aug 29, 2009 - 5:52 pm 49. Pragmatist:How absolutely hilarious that Alan Lothian, he’s not FROM Lothian of course and its just a coincidence that Lothian is a Scottish region, Caestel scratch each others backs LOL. They say the MAJORITY of the Scots aren’t xenophobic, Nationalistic, bigots who hate English and Americans with an inferiority driven passion.
No they are just ‘MOODY’ LOL because they COMPARE the American support of the IRA with the criticism of JOCKS releasing convicted Terrorists for OIL not compassion. Lets see comparing American support of the IRA to THEIR release of a Terrorist ‘moody?’no I am sure that that is MORAL EQUIVALENCE writ large.
BTW JOCK you are not the only Brit in the village. I too am a Brit and whats more I lived in Scotland for over eight years , one of the biggest regrets in life, so I know what I a talking about with regards to the irrational English hating JOCKS. I have also lived in or visited over 93 countries world wide and lived on four different continents and I can state without a shadow of a doubt that of all of those countries Scotland is the one place I have no desire or intention of visiting ever again.
Aug 30, 2009 - 3:01 am 50. BettyBlue:Have I lost the argument well we will let independent readers judge that I will not blow my own trumpet like you and Mohammedans do. But hey being MOODY is a pathetic excuse for using MORAL EQUIVALENCE
And here’s more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814939.ece
It wasn’t “compassion”, it wasn’t because the guy was supposedly sick, it wasn’t because of justice, it was all about the oil.
I suspect oil, and keeping Islam happy, is behind all these terrorist release deals, whether they’re in Britain, or Israel.
Aug 30, 2009 - 7:12 am 51. BettyBlue:Yes, all that talk about “compassionate release” is starting to look like a lot of. . . baloney. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6812427.ece
Aug 30, 2009 - 2:58 pm 52. Pragmatist:Here is what I think as someone who has experience of living among the xenophobic. nationalistic, irrational English and American hating inferiority complex suffering yet at the same time arrogant and egotistical JOCKS. It cracks me up to see these incompetent fools posturing on the International stage. Thinking they were going to be praised for their ‘compassion’ and reason and of course claiming ALL the credit for Scotland alone and the Scottish and I will admit many moonbat left wing Englishmen too posting their ‘moral equivalence’ bile and hatred of the USA on Blogs and newspaper comments sections.
Now of course when the real cat is out of the bag they are squirming and backtracking and trying to pass the buck. Unfortunately for the JOCKS the only possible recipient of this ‘buck’ is the UK Prime Minister who is also a PC MC moonbat JOCK so no relief there.
Q : What does a Scotsman wear under his Kilt.
A : A white flag.
Aug 31, 2009 - 12:07 am 53. zedx:Pagmatist, irony is clearly lost on you. As was the argument.
Whether it be the PTA as agreed between UK and Libya (and by proxy the US), comapssionate release, oil deals, the cessation of sanctons or the nauseous cynicism of Megrahi’s prognosis, simply (for simpletons) miss the essential point entirely. The appeal was dropped, and that was the raisons d’être for the US, Uk, and the Scottish government. Whatever it may take, that appeal must not continue. Best efforts had been employed by the UK govt, US justice dept officials and the Scottish crown prosecutors, to delay, obstruct and deny the appeal process to continue. This appeal was due to recommence next month, and the documentary evidence that had been known (and held) by the US and UK prosecution, (since 1994!) were to be disclosed to the court – and more importantly the defence. These documents had been seen by the SCCRC, and were 1 of the 6 conditions the case had been recommended back to appeal on the basis there may have been ‘a miscarriage of justice’ at Zeist. Witnesses had recieved financial reward for testimony at the original trial – at the behest of the US govt. One such witness, a Libyan intelligence agent no less. I told you the irony was lost.
No matter the weasel-words of scant criticism from the US and UK politicians, privately rest assured they are delighted. A call for a UN enquiry will be made next month at the UN assembly in New York.
Aug 31, 2009 - 12:10 pm 54. Daddy13:This article is presented as a public service and is not intended as a substitute for professional mental health care. ,
Oct 22, 2009 - 6:09 pm