Pajamas Media

49 Comments

1. fnord:

Sir, equating Hezbollah to Waffen SS is just stupid, as is comparing it to Al Quaeda. Its a shia lebanese militia, with a strong popular support. It is a rational actor, not an insane islamist world-conspiracy. My guess is that Petraeus is thinking grand strategy, and in that case he is correct: All attempts at heart and mind-winning will be hollow without a solution to the Israeli treatment of the Pals. Sorry, but its real-politik.

Jun 10, 2009 - 3:21 am 2. dmgold:

Very discouraging to read that the US military “power” decision makers are now chanting the mindless mantras of the Obama Post modern socialist left.

If only Israel didnt exist, not only would there would be no conflict, there would be harmony between peoples as there always was before Israel home birthed itself in 1948.

Of course if we ignore the 11 million muslims who died in various conflicts around the world since 1948. Conflicts as remote as Morroco, Bangladesh, Chechnya then this decorated Generals reckoning might have some substance to it. But when we note that only 50,000 of these 11 million muslim deaths occured in conlict with Israel and that 90 % were muslim arab combatants, one has to start worrying that the good general is buying into a dangerous narrative that will lead to bad if not dangerous strategic decision making, dangerous for you in the USA.

In Israel we already know that all military aid the USA gives Lebanon will end up in the hands of Hizbullah.

France and the USA recently supplied state of the art spy equipment and training to the Lebanese secret service, on the promise that it would only be used against Hizbullah and the Syrians trying to undermine the Lebanese Government. The Lebanese keeping to their promise have used this training and equipment to expose Israels spy network deeply inbedded in Hezbullah amongst other organisations. The Israelis previously passed on all intelligence gleaned to the USA and Western allies preventing terror attacks in the west, now it is assumed that the west is blind. Good one Petraeus, you saved the world.

Jun 10, 2009 - 3:27 am 3. SAF:

There will never be peace in the middle east. If Hezbollah executes its plan to destroy Israel the Moslems will resume fighting amongst themselves. If Israel decides it won’t die the status quo will remain.

One scenario I can see is: Iran gets the bomb, virtually a done deal, half of the Israeli Jewish population emigrates out. What is left can no longer afford their own protection and the country goes down the tubes to the chorus of the west saying “gee we really didn’t think Hezbollah really wanted to kill them all.”

I’ve thought for decades Israel was a short sale. Don’t see anything on the horizon which changes my mind; to the contrary I see acceleration to this process.

Jun 10, 2009 - 4:04 am 4. Rick Geiger:

Hezbollah existed under different names before 1982. Its core is the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, part of the Ayatollah Khomeini’s Islamist movement that abhors democracy and is intent in imposing fascist Islamic law upon the world; this is the same core political/religous ideology that has fought against decent civilization for more than 500 years. People like “fnord” who are too afraid if identifying themselves with a real name because they support Islamist fascism somehow feels their views have value and that can only be irrational mental illness. Gen Petraeus is subject to the same New York Times supported re-writing of history that the rest of us see, and too many people, otherwise respected, take the BS put out by the Islamist PR machine that runs through the Obamaesque appeasement orieneted Western media as fact. Hezbollah is part of the group that killed 242 US Marines in 1983 and that had nothing to do with Israeli troops. Unfortunately, even Ronald Reagan was duped by the likes of James Baker and Brent Scrowcroft into believing that it was the Jews that were the problem. The problem is Islamist fascism, which is a secular political ideology using (and killing) muslims as a front for gaining personal power and fortune.

Jun 10, 2009 - 4:37 am 5. Terry Gain:

“Hezbollah’s justifications for existence will become void,” Petraeus said, “if the Palestinian cause is resolved.”

It is true that Hezbollah’s stated reasons for it’s existence will no longer be valid if the Palestinian issue is resolved but it won’t end the Muslim imperative to conquer the world.

I am troubled by Petraeus expressing his opinion on political issues while still serving. That he is supporting the opinions of the know-nothing Democrats is as disturbing.

The Palestinians don’t want a country. They’ve rejected all efforts to help them form a country. They prefer to live on hatred for Jews.

Petraeus is giving political cover to a man who opposed and undermined his mission in Iraq.

There is no point in giving blood and treasure to liberate Muslims if that effort is going to be criticized by the next adminisraton.

If Americans want to improve their image in the world they should elect people who praise the good works of Americans, not people who pander to a religion/polical movement whose mission is world domination.

Jun 10, 2009 - 5:39 am 6. Lawrence Kohn:

The Israelis are not going to emigrate en masse; everyone thought during the Arafat terror war in 2000 plus with up to 1,000 Israeli civilians murdered in pizza parlors, restaurants, bus stops that Israel would fold; instead there was Operation Defensive Shield which included so many volunteers after the reserve call up that volunteers had to be sent home. Hizbullah is tied to the Palestinians even though it is Lebanese Shiite. The late, murderous, Mugniyeh, was a member of Arafat’s Force 17 during the 1982 Lebanese War. When Arafat was exiled Mugniyeh stayed behind and joined Hizbullah and was a liason between the PLO and Hizbullah in addition to his terror master duties. Hizbullah’s Charter calls for the elimination of Israel from existence, not for the resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Hizbullah not only bombed the Israeli embassy in Argentina but bombed the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires. It is an arm of the Iranians and would continue as such regardless of Israel’s existence. It is also closely allied with Russia, the great power connecting Iran, Syria, Hizbullah, Fatah, North Korea in an anti Western allliance that also includes China, Venezuela, and Cuba. Accurate grand strategy begins with that reality and needs to see that Israel, in addition to its intrinsic right as a Jewish nation to sovereignty in some portion of the area now covered by Israel, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority, is, as General Haig, once said, America’s aircraft carrier in the eastern Mediterranean. Of course, arming Lebanese with equipment that will go to Hizbullah, reducing Israel to indefensible borders (Bush and Sharon had an agreement to reduce Israel’s size but maintain defensibility unlike the current administration), arming the terrorist Fatah and placing the weight of America’s Middle East problems on Israel’s shoulders endangers this strategic alliance. (Though the missile defense agency continues to work with Israel on developing new systems to protect both countries.) Petraeus was masterful in Iraq; but remember General Patton: he helped destroy Nazi Germany but then was placed in charge of the displaced persons camps. Under his administration surviving Jews who had their relatives murdered by Nazis with help from their own countrymen (Poles, Ukranians, Latvians etc) were grouped not as Jewish nationals but each under the rubric of one’s country of origin even after the pogroms in Poland against Holocaust survivors who had tried to go back to their homes. General Eisenhower, learning of Patton’s approach and his attitude towards Jews, fired Patton. Great men can make great errors. As Mr. Guariglia correctly says, Petraeus will have to be judged on the merits of his current actions and remarks even while we acknowledge the enormous debt Americans and all free peoples and all those who yearn to be free owe the general.

Jun 10, 2009 - 5:56 am 7. Raymond in DC:

fnord insists Hizbullah is “a shia lebanese militia, with a strong popular support. It is a rational actor, not an insane islamist-conspiracy.” Wrong on so many counts!

Hizbullah is an *Iranian* creation – sponsored, trained and armed. And if they’re not part of the “islamist world-conspiracy”, one has to wonder why Hizbullah has established cells in Africa and Latin America, again with Iranian support.

Hizbullah also retains a list of grievances against Israel, such that if one is resolved, there’s another that comes to the fore justifying its ongoing “resistance”. It was said that Israel needed to end its “occupation” of southern Lebanon. They did so, as certified by the UN. Ah, but now there’s the matter of northern Ghajar and Shebaa Farms. And when those are dealt with, they’ll point to “Shiite villages” in the north, near today’s Kiryat Shemona, that are no more. In case there’s any doubt, Hizbullah has made clear it will *never* accept the continued existence of Israel in any form.

Jun 10, 2009 - 6:09 am 8. Pete Neal:

Folks -

I think that Gen Petraeus’s comment is not being looked at in totality here – yes, Hezbollah was formed to implement plans primarily dictated by the needs of Iran, however, any armed group requires civilian cooperation and support to exist in a given state – even if that support is only passive acceptance.

Hezbollah has been successful at making the Shia of Lebanon believe that it’s primary reason for being is in the defense of the country against Israeli aggression against Lebanon and the Palestinians. If the Israeli/Palestinian problem finds a realistic solution ( big if ) – then the “primary” reason for Hezbollah to exist in LB no longer holds water and I think you will see a drying up of the public support/acceptance – this development would give the Gov of Lebanon a more real chance to deal with them. In my opinion….

Jun 10, 2009 - 6:31 am 9. Macko:

yasser arafat died a billionaire. terrorists have goals too.

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:26 am 10. Hot Lunch:

Guariglia,

I kept waiting for you to provide some evidence for your assertions. And you didn’t. You people never seem to disappoint; faith-based political activisim. Political belief, without political thought. Have fun with it, as you drive everybody but the minority of Americans with no zero critical thinking skills out of your party.

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:31 am 11. Linda Rivera:

The Wicked BETRAYAL of Israel, Lebanon & the Free World via UN Resolution 1701

During the 2006 Second Lebanon War under INTENSE U.S. pressure, Israel’s leaders agreed to UN Resolution 1701 that prevented the goal vital to Israel’s security – eliminating the rocket threat from Lebanon. The result: Hizbullah now have far more rockets-42,000 as of November 2008 and able to hit 97 percent of Israel’s population. Syria supplies ally, Hizbullah with weapons.

UN Resolution 1701 successfully prevented Israel from defeating Iran-Syria’s terrorist army Hizbullah, thus greatly weakening Israel and empowering Hizbullah to violently take over Lebanon.

Another victory for global jihad CREATED by Western ruling elites – another victory for Islamics in the war against the world’s non-Muslims.

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:35 am 12. savage24:

The General Officers Corps has been getting more political every year. Most of these guys have forgotten that generals are suppose to win wars.And we all know that politicians lose wars. It’s to bad that George S Patton is not around today, he would have given these idiot politicians a run for the money. The military might of this country is going in the same direction as it’s industrial might.The corruption in Washington DC is corrupting everything in the land.

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:35 am 13. Linda Rivera:

Mass MURDER and ATROCITIES of Lebanese Christians REWARDED

Mass murder and atrocities of Christians including ‘The Massacre and Destruction of Damour’ by PLO in Lebanon was REWARDED by importing barbaric PLO into Israel to perpetrate terrorism and mass murder of Jews and rule over Christians in brutal occupation of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The assignment given to the PLO.

Damour’s Christians treated Muslims from nearby villages for free in their hospital and were rewarded with great horror.
See: http://www.free-lebanon.com/LFPNews/psa/psa.html

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:37 am 14. Linda Rivera:

WASHINGTON TIMES
TIMMERMAN: Fear grips democracy in Lebanon
Kenneth Timmerman
March 2, 2009
BEIRUT, Lebanon.

…Hezbollah controls the airport, the seaport, and the security apparatus. They are trying to control the country the way the Nazis did, through a fake democratic process that conceals a coup d’etat.”…

Syrians continue to dominate the country through thousands of intelligence agents and informers operating at every level of Lebanese society, from the security services right down to street vendors. Whenever they feel that someone has stepped over the line, they never hesitate to strike…

“This is worse than open occupation by a foreign army. The Syrians have agents everywhere, at all moments, on every street.”…

The real fear among many Lebanese today is that Syria and Iran have so infiltrated their country that no one is safe, especially if they open their mouths to denounce the foreign threats to Lebanon’s sovereignty.

Saad Hariri, son of the slain prime minister and leader of the March 14 coalition: ”I have no doubt that the Syrian regime is after all of us. “They will kill as many members of parliament of the majority who represent the Cedars Revolution as possible. This is their way. They have never stopped. They will never stop,” he said.

”Hezbollah is prepared to pull off another May 7,” he said. Last May’s massive demonstration by Hezbollah supporters paralyzed downtown Beirut, brought down the government and forced the ruling coalition to make major concessions to Hezbollah and its allies at a shotgun political wedding in Doha, Qatar. “This time, they have stockpiled weapons and built fortified bunkers for their fighters, so they can take over the whole Christian area in just ten minutes,” Mr. Nissi said.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/02/fear-grips-democracy-in-lebanon/

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:44 am 15. WhyamInotsurprised?:

Believe in the man, believe in the process. Wow, everyone is so quick to discount his accomplishments on the basis of one statement.

Give Gen. Petraeus the benefit of the doubt. He is a master chess player and is thinking many moves ahead. His job is complicated. Admit it. Then look at his comment and see if it really fits the perceived ignorance as decried here. I believe in him more than Our Dear Leader. He knows what he is doing. Don’t throw him out, give him time. We can have confidence that he is a man of honor and learning and intelligence.

Give him a break!

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:51 am 16. WhyamInotsurprised?:

#12 Savage24 – Gen. Patton is one of my hero’s also, but you have to admit that his lack of political skills did not help him. He is the one who kept shooting himself in the foot. Only a brilliant commander like Ike could use his personality to create deception and make use of him while keeping him “on ice” until he could be released.

As far as developing the General Officer Corp, it is still highly desirable of our generals to not only wage effective war and win, but to understand and adapt to political realities. I think you would agree that a multi-faceted general at Petraeus’ level is more valuable than a “one trick pony.”

Jun 10, 2009 - 8:03 am 17. Steve:

As usual, the US Military and their intelligence is wrong about their enemy. And because they are consistently wrong your children are sent to foreign lands to die in wars people forget or don’t care about.

You are not fighting for their or your freedom.

Jun 10, 2009 - 8:04 am 18. Morton Doodslag:

As money continues (and increases) to flow into the coffers of Islam, Mislims will fund more global Jihad and will create/install more tools to conduct it. The proliferating list of “extremist” groups across the world are mainly a function of vast oceans money available to Muslims.

Just because an Islamic terror group’s raison d’être may make it appear to strictly be a local terror opdesigned to advance Muslim interests in a local dispute, it is a grave error to fail to perceive that these groups ALL are waging Jihad to advance Islam. Whatever version of Islam is being advanced doesn’t matter in the slightest, nor do the specifics of the pretext for this or that Jihad.

For too long, “analysts” in the West have atomized their approach to the spiralling nightmare of Jihad — acting as if the list of Muslim grievances and pretexts to wage Jihad is not eternal and infinite.

Muslims were perhaps the first radical revolutionaries to “think globally, act locally”. The salient features of every bloody advance of Islam everywhere in the world and across all time has been local Jihad waged under local manufactured pretexts to cement those advances. The Islamic toolkit was always, and will always be violence, murder, genocide, subjugation, oppression, ethnic cleansing, enslavement, rape, and pillage.

Finally, whether we’re discussing the violent armed wings of Islam such as Hezballah, Hamas, al Qaida, JI, or we’re discussing the other mechanisms of Jihad such as birthing babies, “honor killings”, the veil, female circumcision, mosque building, da’wa in prisons, Friday sermons, Islamic “charity”, or the local bake sale to benefit the new “Islamic Community Center” — IT IS ALL JIHAD — and it is all implicitly designed to harm and subvert “non-Islamic” civilization and to prepare the ground for Islamic domination.

The Muslim onslaught against us (Jihad) is wide and deep, and fueled by trillions in unearned oil wealth. Few among us have yet grasped the scope of our peril or the nature of this sinister enemy.

Jun 10, 2009 - 8:04 am 19. Adina Kutnicki,Israel:

Nocholas, from where I sit-in the eye of the Islamic storm-I give your analysis a 100% thumbs up.

Nothing more needs to be added. Brilliant analysis!

Jun 10, 2009 - 8:07 am 20. Juvenal:

Well, Hot Lunch is at least proving that he has the characteristic leftist penchant for pathological projection in spades, even if clear writing isn’t exactly his forte. I’d guess he has a bright future ahead of him as an MSNBC anchor (if he has decent hygiene and weighs less than 350 lbs.) or as an Obama speechwriter (if not).

As for Petraeus, it may well be that he was speaking of Hezbollah’s stated excuses for existence, and only that, as transparently false as those excuses are. It would be easy to use a quote like that to make it look like Petraeus actually believes them.

There’s also the possibility that Petraeus has to keep the new boss in mind. Bush allowed generals to trash him and his policies. Obama will not only not allow anything like that, he also, we can be reasonably sure, expects top military leaders to sound off in positive expressions of praise for his policy preferences.

Generals have been all too willing in recent years to voice their own opinions in political matters. Colin Powell–a much less talented leader than Gen. Petraeus–is the perfect example. Petraeus serves under a Commander in Chief who considers Petraeus’ service to be to [i]him[/i], and not the country. Powell didn’t have that excuse.

Jun 10, 2009 - 8:41 am 21. JHM dba ''Neocomradologist":

It appears that rumors of the Decline and Fall of the Rovan Empire [1] have been greatly exaggerated. The neo-Levantine provinces, at least, are still thrivin’ quite as if Black Tuesday, 4 November 2008, had never happened.

Is Dr. Gen. Petræus of Princeton and West Point likely to be much of a threat to the postreality-basin’ _imperium_? Could even the Hannibal of the Age ever persuade weekly standardisers and common terrorisers [2] and pajamatarians and Neocomrade Rear-Colonel N. Guariglia that the God Party of Lebanon is — _mirabile dictu_! — basically a Lebanese phenomenon?

I see no reason why Master Dubya’s ‘David’ should be expected to spoil the fun much, for it is not as if imperial Rovans give a hoot about natives and (non-Zionist) locals. The intramural and factional advantages of continuin’ to (pretend to) believe in “not even *their* nation” [3] are not to be thoughtlessly exchanged for a mess of accuracy. [4]

Happy days.

___
[1] ”That is not the way the world really works anymore. WE are an Empire now, and when WE act, WE create OUR OWN reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — WE will act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. WE are history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what WE do.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html

[2] http://www.commentarymagazine.com/

[3] The tiny scrap of neotericity and narcissism (plus paragrammaticality!) that I borrow from the good colonel may need to be put in context:

“To suggest Hezbollah’s primary motivations are minimalist and nationalist — indeed, NOT EVEN *THEIR* NATION — is baloney. The rationale for Hezbollah’s existence is to overtake and ransack Lebanon and make it a satrapy state for Iran, to Islamize secular Lebanese polity, to kill Westerners [_sic_] wherever and whenever possible, and, more significantly [_sic_], to strive for the end of Israel’s existence.”

[4] _Et sic accepto pane et lentis edulio comedit et bibit et abiit parvipendens quod primogenita vendidisset_ (_Lib. Gen._ XXV:34)

Jun 10, 2009 - 9:30 am 22. Terry Gain:

Believe in the man, believe in the process. Wow, everyone is so quick to discount his accomplishments on the basis of one statement.

I’m certainly not discounting General Petraeus’ fabulous accomplishments. however two weeks ago General Petraeus said Gitmo should be closed. He was wrong about that and he’s wrong about this.

There’s no place to put these people. The choice is between letting them go and running the unacceptable risk that they will return to jihad or holding them for the duration. Placing them in maximum security prisons won’t make the propaganda problem go away. Maximum security prisons are not nearly as pleasant as Gitmo.

The propaganda problem can be solved by praising the sacrifices Americans have made for the benefit of Iraqis and Afghanis. This would require the election of a government more interested in promoting the interests of the country rather than the interests of their party.

Jun 10, 2009 - 10:08 am 23. JGreer:

“Hezbollah’s justifications for existence will become void”

This is a true statement. ‘Justification’ being the operative word. The organization would certainly continue on in the absence of this facade cause. Petraeus does not claim otherwise. However losing their cover, so to speak, would leave them with nothing more than their real causes which the author has provided. Such causes gain no sympathy from the broader world and therefore will weaken the organization as a whole. Petraeus has simply outlined one potential avenue of attack, the one that is most favorable to audience he was speaking.

Jun 10, 2009 - 11:04 am 24. Middleman:

Much like Powell, it seems that the Islamocommie body snatchers have taken Petraeus. You and your children are next.

Jun 10, 2009 - 11:58 am 25. Ron:

I don’t give Gen. Petreus quite as much credit for the Surge. The reduction of violence was mostly due to agreements between the Bush admin and Iran. Rice and Bush agreed to not attack Iran and to not let Israel launch an attack.

As for Petreus’ portrayal of Hezbollah, he certainly has a wrong-headed view, as you pointed out. The way to deal with Hezbollah and Hamas is by dealing with Iran, its nuclear ambitions, and its terrorist influence.

Jun 10, 2009 - 12:30 pm 26. Bob Miller:

Petraeus has been successful but is not infallible.

Jun 10, 2009 - 12:40 pm 27. fred:

I don’t believe that he believes it. I think, like many high profile, rank military men, he is saying these things to ingratiate himself to The Boss and the advisers close to The Boss. In the military, generally at the rank of full colonel and above, especially generals, you serve at the pleasure of the president.

If you check the history of the period, during the 1930’s and during the war you would have heard most of Hitler’s generals performing the same ritual fellatio. Same in the Stalin regime, only it was worse there.

That is the measure, folks, of how potentially totalitarian this monster is. He has suppressed opposition in a way befitting the Chicago, Alinsky Communist thug style.

Jun 10, 2009 - 1:14 pm 28. "progressive"watch:

Petraeus and Gates are being told what to say or if they don’t someone will be put in their places who will say it. They are saying it to protect our militray in Iraq and Afganistan. Their efforts will only help in the short term. Obama’s going to screw up the military big time!!!!!!!!!!

Jun 10, 2009 - 1:42 pm 29. myth buster:

Petreus is right; Hezbollah is a parasite. They use Israel as an excuse to drum up support for wars that the Lebanese want no part in. One day, they’re going to get Tyre destroyed because of it.

Jun 10, 2009 - 1:55 pm 30. Leatherneck:

Error #1 is following any CFR guide lines on the Middle East conflict.

Error #2 is believing the Ummah will be at peace with Israel if the conflict is solved. What was once part of the Ummah, must be retaken. That includes part of Spain.

Even if Islam destroys Israel, there will not be peace. Islam must rule the world before there is peace. The CFR does not understand that.

Islam is the problem, or we can all convert to Islam for the sake of peace.

Death before Dishonor!

Jun 10, 2009 - 3:22 pm 31. Oscar the Grump:

Linda Rivera
Thanks for the article on Damour, it was excellent. Keep up your good work.

Jun 10, 2009 - 4:14 pm 32. Oscar the Grump:

To those of you who don’t know, Moslem conquest was stopped in Poland at a little known place outside of Kalish. That would mean that the Ummah would have gone clear into France in the west and up to Poland in the east.

Jun 10, 2009 - 5:32 pm 33. Jerry:

Re #1 fnord: Real politic reflects your prejudicial view that “it’s all Israel’s fault.” While you may believe differently, eliminating Israel is the last thing the Palestinians want. It is the dream of every Palestinian politician or government lackey to get on gravy train where real money can be appropriated to their bank accounts to assure their personal fortunes. By rejecting a state of their own and demanding constant infusions of cash to cover their bad, bad behavior, they assure themselves the possibility to siphoning off dollars. What could they do to make an equivalent living without their constant threat of violence.

It is a question of cognitive dissonance for Americans to explain Palestinians’ extraordingary opposition to previous offers to end the conflict. How do we choose to explain their rigidity? From my prospective the problem is easily solved by following the money – UN money, EU money, American money, Arab money, Iranian money. It’s all money. Hisb’Allah would fall apart if it were not supported by Iran; Hamas would fall apart if it were not supported by the UN, EU, America, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Those Palestinian folks as individuals may be able to earn a living, but as a social entity, a country, fuggetaboutit. You want to see problems? A solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will produce problems you haven’t even thought of. It is Israel’s role in Judea and Samaria that stablizes Palestinian society. Don’t believe me, look at Gaza. Patraeus has to know this too. Shame on him for thinking the truth does not matter.

Jun 10, 2009 - 5:32 pm 34. Wadeusaf:

General Petraeus in making the statement that should the Palestinian Israel conundrum be resolved Hezbollah will have lost its “justification” for being, was right on. There is no doubt Hezbollah was born to create an Iranian entity in the combined Arab cause against the Jews. In the wake of the PLO’s eviction from Jordan Hezbollah was given the opportunity to kill Americans, Frenchmen, Christians and Jews. Leaving the Mullahs happier than a pig wallowing in a mud hole. The pigs have been enjoying themselves ever since.

The statement is correct as far as it goes. It is a statement of fact and not a presentation of policy. Would it mean the end of Hezbollah if the Palestinians and the Israeli’s made nice? No.

Jun 10, 2009 - 5:57 pm 35. Zabibi:

Their is nothing sinister about Petraeus’s remarks. They are in line with Baker-Snowcroft study group recommendations. Ending the Mideast conflict, and it’s very possible, cannot stop all conflicts in the Midest, but it can dramatically weaken America’s enemies, including Hizbollah and Al Qaida. For the people who support these groups, the Palestinian issue provides the rallying cry for continued legitimacy and support. As the 9/11 Commission found out too, without this rallying, Al qaida and Hizbollah couldn’t have become such widely supported groups in Islamic lands.

Jun 10, 2009 - 6:29 pm 36. homero:

he may well believe that drivel, lots of high level people do (by high level I do not mean smart …just holders of high government positions) …I think Obuma believes it.
people seem to be able to rationalize lots of things so they do not have to do the right thing.

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:07 pm 37. kenny komodo:

Maybe, just maybe, the good General has been sipping the Obambi kool-aide. And maybe, just maybe, the Obambi has been whispering into the good General’s ear that he would certainly be a welcome running mate, say for Vice President, in 2012. Obambi has already proven that he has no loyalty and would throw Biden over the side in a NY minute. So four years of training under Obambi, then eight years of the good General as POTUS, and then? Well who can say? Now of course I can’t prove any of this but General Petraeus saw what happened to President Bush, how he was demeaned, insulted, threatened and called every name in the book. So maybe General Petraeus doesn’t care to go down that road, that he’s come around to think that perhaps it’s better to go along to get along. Politics does make for strange bedfellows.

Jun 10, 2009 - 7:21 pm 38. fred:

The justification of Hizb’allah for being in existence is the Qur’an and Allah’s demands. Imitation of the Prophet. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Anyone who does not see this has not really looked into Islam and what it teaches.

I don’t think Petraeus really believes this tripe. I still think he’s saying the right things to keep his job and not end up being knifed in the back. He saw what Soros’ media 527’s and the MSM did to George Bush. I think he’s just trying to stay under the radar. I really do.

Obonga and his thugs are evil. They are insatiable in their desire for power and control, to impose their vision of the world. I think Petraeus knows how dangerous his bosses are.

If I were him I would want to just retire as soon as I can and get away from these awful people. The only ones I’d miss are the troops.

Jun 10, 2009 - 8:20 pm 39. Edward Norden:

The Petraus interview was conducted in Arabic, which he is said to speak. Therefore, all hinges on what word he used–was it translatable as “justification” or was it “excuse”? If the latter, then he’s fairly correct. Hizbollah has always claimed as its reason for holding weapons as a virtual state within a state the unfinished battle to defend Lebanon against Zionism, and on occasion the need to liberate a tiny corner of territory called the Sheba Farms, which the UN says is actually in Syria. Were the Palestinians to make their peace with Zionism—don’t hold your breath—Hizbollah would be hard pressed to keep pretending that it’s fighting for Lebanon, rather than for the Shiites who’ve come to form the country’s majority. All of which shouldn’t encourage the U.S. to put the arm on Israel, nor do I think, so far, that Petreaus would favor it.

Jun 10, 2009 - 9:24 pm 40. Typos_R_us:

“His implementation of the surge strategy in Iraq, a counterinsurgency doctrine he literally authored, was one of the greatest military triumphs in U.S. history and constituted one of the most dramatic turnarounds in the history of warfare. That is not an overstatement.”

Sounds like a fitness report. It is factually inaccurate, just like the average fitness report.

http://www.usafa.edu/isme/ISME09/Coleman09.html

The “Surge” was nothing new as far as guerrilla fighting.
The Romans used similar tactics 2000+ years ago. Maybe you consider 2,000 years old as new?

The most dramatic turnaround in the history of warfare? PLEEEEASE! Don’t know much military history, do you?

Guerrilla or insurgency warfare is the second oldest form of war known to man. It started the night after the first army invaded their neighbor. A farmer caught a invader asleep, knocked him over the head and made off with his spear and shield.
This prolly happened a few minutes by helicopter from the Green Zone in space. Thousands of years in time. Read your Herodotus. In the Bronze Age insurgencies were the norm. Insurgency declined in the age of rifles because farmers with pointed sticks didn’t do so good against muskets and cannons. And this was before the concept of ‘innocent bystander’ was invented. Pillage, rapine and looting were considered the benefits of a military career. Sort of a 15th century retirement plan.

From what “Bush the wuss” would call a “strategery” viewpoint, Iraq was a failure. The Modified inkblot strategy Gen.Petraeus used requires generations to work.
It would take at least one generation of Iraq’s living and working with American to make even the slightest difference. All we have done in Iraq is shown the Muslims that we can kick their arse. That is nothing new, EVERYBODY kicks their arse. It means nothing, except the Muslims have to try a different angle in their eternal war against the non-Muslim world.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2001/11/19/011119fa_FACT2?currentPage=all

In the end, this will be either an all Muslim planet or there will be no Muslims on this planet. The Chinese will exterminate them. The west is toast, unless we find the will to commit genocide on the Muslims. The west is toast if Islam finds the means to perform genocide on us.
There cannot be any compromise with religious fanatics. That is what makes them fanatics.
In Iraq, the insurgants have been laying low, waiting for the US to leave. Now that the Usurper has given them a date certain, they can make their plans.
That means when the fecal matter hits the rotary air impeller, the Usurper and his cohorts will need a scapegoat.
It looks like Petraeus is that guy. Now when Hezza-bo-allah nukes new york, the administration can blame Petraeus and say, “The expert told us it was OK and he was wrong so why blame us?”
There has been at least 1 solo terrorist attack since the Usurper was sworn in. I think that was a trial run, with waves of single gunmen trained in Al Qeada camps coming in the near future. The Usurper will use those attacks to sic his lap dogs in the MSM on the 2nd amendment. The Chicago cabal doesn’t fear terrorists. They do fear free, armed, Americans.

Jun 10, 2009 - 11:11 pm 41. Joel:

Superb article in every way!

Jun 11, 2009 - 1:22 am 42. Question Marks:

“Analogously, this would be like Gen. Eisenhower or Gen. Patton making the case that the existence of the Waffen-SS would effectively end the moment the British ended their colonialism of India …”.

Is it a Freudian slip or a reflection of reality by the author? I tend tom think the former, judging by the ‘wild’ spin that we are exposed to by Pajamas Media (PM).

Israel’s illegal occupation of post- 1976 Palestinian and Arab land, in the face of numerous UN resolutions accepted even by the USA no less, is indeed ‘colonisation’, as you intimated in the direct quote above. I would go further however to say that the treatment by the occupation authorities of the occupied Arab masses on that illegally occupied territories is the worst kind of apartheid since the since the internationally condemned racist regime of South Africa.

Sir, away from the hyperbole and clichés, let us look at the facts that lie behind the ‘phenomenon’ of Hizbullah:

- The party was created in 1982 as a direct result of Israeli occupation of Lebanon in that year;

- Hence Hizbullah was, and remains to be (judging from the support of its constituency in the last election) a reflection of a substantial segment of popular Lebanese will to end an illegal occupation, set free thousands of Lebanese and Arab POWs held by Israel for several decades (succeeded in doing so) and create a balance of power that would make the strongest military power in the Middle east from embarking of further occupation and expansion. This has been achieved, for all intents and purposes, as a result of the 2008 war;

- Hizbullah’s leadership is Lebanese in its entirety. Please refer to umpteen sources of information that collate data on the party in the West;

- Yes, the party enjoys substantial support from Iran and Syria. Where is the real issue here? One does remember USA’s support for many a side and party around then world, and its support of unpopular movements that changed regimes against the will of its indigenous people. They are too many to mention here, but the point is made, I believe. the only difference between Iran’s and USA’s roles is that in the latter Washington called the shots and not the movements itself;

- Yes, Hizbullah did kill Americans. It attacked Armed US marines stationed on Lebanese soil. These troops were perceived, and justly so by Lebanese as assisting the Israeli occupation in taking control of Lebanon. Let us remember that there was a war raging in Lebanon as a result of Israel’s mass invasion of the country; and war usually begets death. Hizbullah did not go to California and killed its citizens, rather it is the other way round;

- Yes, the Palestinian plight is at the heart of Hizbullah. it is also in the heart of all Arabs and Moslems as a result of the injustice imposed on Palestinian people for over sixty years spent by a proud nation without a national identity having been dislodged from the land of their forefathers and ended up living in refugee camps in destitution and misery., elders have no past, fathers no present and their children have no future. May I also dare to say that the plight of the Palestinians enjoys sympathy in the West too!

- To be objective, one has to point out one indictment against Hizbullah in matters of international terrorism. There might be pending investigations and media hype about the party’s alleged role in overseas operations, but this is quite different from the claim made by you sir, that the party IS involved. I would have thought that justice seeking people would not want to divert the course of justice by making unsubstantiated allegations, and would wait for the due process to take its course.

sir, as to the statement by gen Patreus, that seems to infuriate you, I would tell you as a layperson with no military expertise, that it is (the statement) is one of the most politically rational that a US military commander came up with.

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been at the root of instability for decades. This conflict has seen unlimited and indeed unwavering support by Washington to Israel. Billions and billons of Us taxpayers money have been granted to Israel, in essence financing the instability of an already volatile region in the world. I believe it has become clear in the era of post-9/11 that the ‘hatred’ of USA on the part of the 3rd world, especially Moslems is due to USA refusing to deal with issues of the Middle East in even-handed manner. This could be ascertained by gleaming through millions of pages of research conducted in the aftermath of 9/11, some of it conducted by official and respected Us institutions, hence the drive to redress the balance and ‘win the hearts and minds’ of Arabs and Moslems around the world.

There is no ‘international Muslim conspiracy’ to take over the world; every sane and objective reader of history recognises this fact.

The media hype that asserts otherwise is only misleading, enticing world turbulences and is a disservice to the American citizen who is eager for justice with the same passion as the Arab.

Regards

Jun 11, 2009 - 3:16 am 43. fnord:

Question MArks (and a couple of others): Well put, rational points. However, it is true that Hezbollah has conducted some overseas operations, but hardly more than a handful. Its also true that they have a network of diaspora supporters wich help them with finance. But they are *not* part of any larger islamic conspiracy, and have been called unbelievers and apostates by various A Quaeda members.

As for various remarks about the general here, I find them disgusting. If youre in Washington, I would suggest you call him a liar, a sneak and a cowardly carrerist, not to mention stupid, to his face. The man is smart, and has supported these policies from before Obama, as has propably Gates. WHy do you all hate America so much?

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:37 am 44. fnord:

TypoRusPS: Its always fascinating to read people advocating another holocaust, but whats this with “The Usurper”? Have you been reading too much Harry Potter?

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:39 am 45. rbell:

Having been in the military I don’t trust anyone above Colonel, (and I didn’t trust too many of them either). Today’s military is all political. Stars go to the best politicians – not the best generals. They are like the supreme court, soon to be packed with libs. Why else would they sell out their own soldiers in the field to stand trial on trumped up charges.

I hate to burst your bubble but there are no more Pattons or MacArthurs, only Westmorlands and Abrams. They weed out the real soldiers. Think back to Wesley Clarke and all the other generals who came out against Bush in the early days of the war.

This statement by Petreus indicates he is just another paper pusher with Stars. He may be a good tactician but don’t count on him to be a real leader or a free thinker. He’ll go where the political wind blows. I wish it weren’t true.

Jun 11, 2009 - 4:56 pm 46. EdGi:

Nick, it is possible Gen P is coming from the divide&coop strategy that led to the murder of Col Rich Grifith, USMC so many years ago. It is true that most of the foot soldiers of the Hez/Amal have local motivations resolvable locally, thus can be coopted to “Partners for Peace. Unfortunatly, the Brotherhood and Iranian Council control Hez/Amal with money, guns and corruption, and thus you are right that this is total fantasy and perilous to us and peace. This cost Griffiths his life, the Iranians and Brotherhood got away with the murder and the locals were so scared and corrupted that we have the Hez we face today. I support Gen P’s efforts, but nailing the Brotherhood/Baathist/Iranian support first, he will lose.

Jun 11, 2009 - 5:24 pm 47. fred:

fnord,

Composing these words as an Army veteran, please feel free to go to hell. No one here is debasing Gen. Petraeus’ record as a commander of forces. Certainly not I. What we are saying is that officers above the O-6 level are political creatures. They have to be, because the fact is that they serve at the pleasure of the president. If you don’t know this, then you never put on the uniform and got to know it’s culture.

Gen. Petraeus, I believe, was parsing his words so that they would not be offensive to his host and to the president. He is not hired to make policy or to comment on it. He is EXPECTED to approve of the policy and carry it out. This president has staked out a policy vis-a-vis Israel that is very different from his predecessor’s. When a general officer or an admiral publicly states something that contradicts or clashes with the commander-in-chief’s HE’S SACKED!

That’s the reality. You have to be naive or not aware of the culture of the officer corps above the rank of light colonel to consider what we’ve been saying to be defamatory.

Foreign governments with agendas love interviewing our generals and admirals, because they are trying to pry information out of them, or to bait them into saying things that create discord in the chain of command. It is fairly well known that this is the game being played. Those who miss that point are perhaps promoted far above their intelligence level. And, believe me, Petraeus is not stupid.

Jun 11, 2009 - 8:50 pm 48. Anonymous:

“Israel’s illegal occupation of post- 1976 Palestinian and Arab land,”

A bald faced lie! There has NEVER been a nation/state named Palestine. The closest has been an administrative district under several different empires, only one of which survived into the 20th century.
As far as the land itself, the Palestinian Mandate of Britain covered Israel, Jordan, Iraq, and parts of Syria. The Brits added Iran to the goody sack at some point.

This URL is lengthy, but does a pretty good job of covering the central points of the issue.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2001/11/19/011119fa_FACT2?currentPage=all

Israel was established by the UN. It was the first state created by the UN.
The Arabs didn’t like the plan and had been trying to get it changed since 1919, when the plan was first trotted out.
The Parition plan assigned the Arabs living in the Levant their own land, named Jordan. A king was imported to run the place. Jordan ( Trans-Jordan back then) ran from Israel to Iraq. The West bank was mostly Jewish, Gaza was mostly Arabic. That is the way it stood in 1948, when the Arabs invaded or tried to. Israel won. They won by surviving, not by keeping the land the UN gave them. The Arabs kept that land; Gaza, the West bank and parts of Jerusalem.
The UN didn’t do a thing about this land grab. Then in ‘57, the Jews were rented by the French and British to attack Gaza and the Sinai to pin down Egyptian troops while British and French forces tried to take the Suez canal away from Egypt. Ike stopped that.
Then in ‘67, when a group of Arabic nations joined together to attack Israel, Israel got in the first blow and in what became known as the 6 day war, RECAPTURED the land the Arabs stole in ‘48 &’49.
That is the land we are talking about today.

I have two questions for all those Jew hating, Muslim lovin, terrorist supporters out there;
First, if The West Bank and Gaza are Palestinian land, then why didn’t Jordan and Egypt return them to Palestian while they controlled those lands?
Second, since the UN signed off on the British plan to give that land to Israel, why should Israel give it to the Arabs, who have no claim beyonds renters rights. That is correct, the “Palestinians” (sneer quotes) have NEVER held legal title to any of that land. A fact the World Court pointed out back in the 70’s.

The Entire issue of Palestine is the Arabs trying to con the West into giving them what they took by force, but were unable to keep by force.
They want the West to do their dirty work. Many in the west are actually foolish enough to fall for it.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:02 am 49. Ole Sarge:

Life is simple for muslims, first they kill infidels, all done. Now they kill other muslim sects, all done. Now they look at each other and start deciding who is the true muslim and who is not and the killing goes on and on and on —–.

The muslim religion is a brutally murderous religion, it started that way and has continued in that vain since coming into being.

One can mince words and come up with fancy solutions, but in the end it comes back to the above.

Jun 13, 2009 - 10:00 pm

Write a Comment

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed)
Comments: