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	<title>Comments on: Girls and Math: You&#8217;ve Come a Long Way, Baby</title>
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		<title>By: intheblusea</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-90266</link>
		<dc:creator>intheblusea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-90266</guid>
		<description>In reading these commonts, Obviously men have a better perspective (on this issue) then the ladies. 
 I agree with Suzee:Q- &quot;viva la difference.&quot;
 
 Joanne; 
  For boys, the Ed. system &amp; it&#039;s management contains toxic. What radical feminist institution actually cares for or care to understand boys? Their goal is to oppress them-dumb down.
Your article is misleading. It belongs with MSM. 
You should know better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reading these commonts, Obviously men have a better perspective (on this issue) then the ladies.<br />
 I agree with Suzee:Q- &#8220;viva la difference.&#8221;</p>
<p> Joanne;<br />
  For boys, the Ed. system &amp; it&#8217;s management contains toxic. What radical feminist institution actually cares for or care to understand boys? Their goal is to oppress them-dumb down.<br />
Your article is misleading. It belongs with MSM.<br />
You should know better.</p>
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		<title>By: John Blake</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89754</link>
		<dc:creator>John Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89754</guid>
		<description>My daughter just graduated with a BS Degree in Biochemistry.  Her freshman biochem class totaled thirty students, sixteen of them girls.  By Junior year, she was the only female left majoring in biochem.

When I asked why, she said, &quot;They [the female students] realized they could get a perfectly good degree without doing that much work.&quot; &quot;Then why are you still there?&quot; I asked.  &quot;Because I really like biochemistry,&quot; said she.

Title IX, hogwash.  Female parity on math tests represents dumbed-down curricula, which most  will abandon post-haste.  Group identity has no bearing in such stringent disciplines:  You do the work for love, or not at all.  The premise that creative work is an equal-opportunity affair is a ludicrous misapprehension.  Just ask my beloved daughter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My daughter just graduated with a BS Degree in Biochemistry.  Her freshman biochem class totaled thirty students, sixteen of them girls.  By Junior year, she was the only female left majoring in biochem.</p>
<p>When I asked why, she said, &#8220;They [the female students] realized they could get a perfectly good degree without doing that much work.&#8221; &#8220;Then why are you still there?&#8221; I asked.  &#8220;Because I really like biochemistry,&#8221; said she.</p>
<p>Title IX, hogwash.  Female parity on math tests represents dumbed-down curricula, which most  will abandon post-haste.  Group identity has no bearing in such stringent disciplines:  You do the work for love, or not at all.  The premise that creative work is an equal-opportunity affair is a ludicrous misapprehension.  Just ask my beloved daughter.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89753</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89753</guid>
		<description>Shouldn&#039;t Pajamas Media be resisting collectivism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t Pajamas Media be resisting collectivism?</p>
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		<title>By: digidude</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89741</link>
		<dc:creator>digidude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89741</guid>
		<description>my experience as an applied math major in college 20 years ago and the father of a junior in high school and professional tutor is that the overall math competency of students had declined to the point that there is less statistical evidence of a sexual bias.  IE the boys are failing as badly as the girls so they are approaching equality.  the spin is that girls are improving while the reality is that boys are simply falling faster as they had further to fall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my experience as an applied math major in college 20 years ago and the father of a junior in high school and professional tutor is that the overall math competency of students had declined to the point that there is less statistical evidence of a sexual bias.  IE the boys are failing as badly as the girls so they are approaching equality.  the spin is that girls are improving while the reality is that boys are simply falling faster as they had further to fall.</p>
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		<title>By: Dormative Principle</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89615</link>
		<dc:creator>Dormative Principle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89615</guid>
		<description>re  I got tired of dealing with a bunch of socially incompetent men who were more interested in the latest computer toy than current events.

Don&#039;t know about the socially incompetent jibe, but them being more interested... is not an explanation, it is identical to the statement of the issue, they are interested in the field and you are not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re  I got tired of dealing with a bunch of socially incompetent men who were more interested in the latest computer toy than current events.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know about the socially incompetent jibe, but them being more interested&#8230; is not an explanation, it is identical to the statement of the issue, they are interested in the field and you are not.</p>
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		<title>By: david levavi</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89448</link>
		<dc:creator>david levavi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89448</guid>
		<description>So much blather, so few facts. I would wager that most mathematicians aren’t nearly so hot and bothered by the subject of women in math as some of those commenting here.

I have friends and relatives who are mathematicians and computer scientists, most of them academics.  Most, if not all, are pretty laid back. Mathematicians seem to do a lot of traveling and conferencing and  communicating with other mathematicians. I may be naive, but my impression is that math research is a friendly and social pursuit, partly perhaps because mathematicians share a language others don’t understand.

My middle daughter is a discrete mathematician and she has become accustomed to being a minority, often of one, in her classes. She’s an attractive young woman and she hasn’t suffered. She’s had two papers  published in respectable math journals as an undergraduate and she’s too busy with her research to bother about gender statistics best left to journalists and professionals in the soft sciences to ponder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So much blather, so few facts. I would wager that most mathematicians aren’t nearly so hot and bothered by the subject of women in math as some of those commenting here.</p>
<p>I have friends and relatives who are mathematicians and computer scientists, most of them academics.  Most, if not all, are pretty laid back. Mathematicians seem to do a lot of traveling and conferencing and  communicating with other mathematicians. I may be naive, but my impression is that math research is a friendly and social pursuit, partly perhaps because mathematicians share a language others don’t understand.</p>
<p>My middle daughter is a discrete mathematician and she has become accustomed to being a minority, often of one, in her classes. She’s an attractive young woman and she hasn’t suffered. She’s had two papers  published in respectable math journals as an undergraduate and she’s too busy with her research to bother about gender statistics best left to journalists and professionals in the soft sciences to ponder.</p>
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		<title>By: Night Owl</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89404</link>
		<dc:creator>Night Owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89404</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s be realistic: 
The percentage of people, male or female capable of winning noble prizes in any field, is small to begin with. Very few people are that talented. Since most woman for centuries were discouraged or barred from higher education, their lack of achievement in fields accessible only to the brightest and most highly educated members of society, should not really be surprising. 

To assume that the negative effect of past inequalities means women will always be intellectually incapable of success in those fields, is illogical, imo. The fact that any women were able to excel in those fields, in spite of the roadblocks, proves that there are superior women up to the challenges of hard sciences and math.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s be realistic:<br />
The percentage of people, male or female capable of winning noble prizes in any field, is small to begin with. Very few people are that talented. Since most woman for centuries were discouraged or barred from higher education, their lack of achievement in fields accessible only to the brightest and most highly educated members of society, should not really be surprising. </p>
<p>To assume that the negative effect of past inequalities means women will always be intellectually incapable of success in those fields, is illogical, imo. The fact that any women were able to excel in those fields, in spite of the roadblocks, proves that there are superior women up to the challenges of hard sciences and math.</p>
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		<title>By: Night Owl</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89325</link>
		<dc:creator>Night Owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89325</guid>
		<description>It seems possible that tests are being dumbed-down to get girls numbers up. If true, it should be strongly criticized and stopped. But it seems equally likely to me that todays girls are not as math phobic as previous generations, and are sticking with it long enough to achieve.  

Whether they decide to continue on with math and science as a career is another issue. As many other people have said, it&#039;s about choices. Many women apparently do not find high level math interesting.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as women admit it and stop crying sexism when they are under represented.

On the other hand, there will always be some small number of women who, despite prevailing stereotypes, enjoy math and can compete equally with men. I hope we all agree that they should not be judged by the performance of other women, but on their own merits and faults. And again I emphasize that I don&#039;t approve of lowering standards. That ultimately helps no one.

BTW I agree Suzee Q-  We should appreciate and respect our differences. Men and women as groups and as individuals, are all different in how we think, our motivations, drive and desires. And I think the differences are for the betterment of society. Consider testosterone w/o compromise, and vice/versa. I don&#039;t see either as a recipe for an optimum society (or an optimum person, for that matter).  Sparta or the bee-hive. Shudder!  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems possible that tests are being dumbed-down to get girls numbers up. If true, it should be strongly criticized and stopped. But it seems equally likely to me that todays girls are not as math phobic as previous generations, and are sticking with it long enough to achieve.  </p>
<p>Whether they decide to continue on with math and science as a career is another issue. As many other people have said, it&#8217;s about choices. Many women apparently do not find high level math interesting.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as women admit it and stop crying sexism when they are under represented.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there will always be some small number of women who, despite prevailing stereotypes, enjoy math and can compete equally with men. I hope we all agree that they should not be judged by the performance of other women, but on their own merits and faults. And again I emphasize that I don&#8217;t approve of lowering standards. That ultimately helps no one.</p>
<p>BTW I agree Suzee Q-  We should appreciate and respect our differences. Men and women as groups and as individuals, are all different in how we think, our motivations, drive and desires. And I think the differences are for the betterment of society. Consider testosterone w/o compromise, and vice/versa. I don&#8217;t see either as a recipe for an optimum society (or an optimum person, for that matter).  Sparta or the bee-hive. Shudder!  <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89324</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89324</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think anyone ever doubted that girls could do the simple arithmetic and algebra that appear on the ACT and SAT  -- levels of math that are taught by 8th or 9th grade. Or that they could handle high school-level trig and precalculus; or even major in math in college. 

The word &quot;computer&quot; after all once referred to young female  mathematicians doing donkey work. If the &quot;gap&quot; among teenagers is disappearing it&#039;s probably a mix of massive encouragement for young women, better test preparation available for those motivated to take advantage, and the feminization of schooling that further alienates and de-motivates young men.

But as No Name touches on above, the real sex difference is that (so far) men have been the ones most interested when it gets hard, and emphatically masters of the abstract boundaries of math and physics. One can hardly stress the historical dominance here -- 100% male among leading edge intellects is scarcely an exaggeration. That far exceeds the male dominance seen in fields that are male-dominant merely by social convention -- rulers, soldiers, pilots, etc. History has its Elizabeths and Joans of Arc and Amelia Earhearts and female pirates, but ALMOST zero great female mathematicians and physicists (count em on one hand. A hand with two or three fingers missing.)

Hence the next group of Fields Medal winners will all be men. The next winners of the Nobel prizes in Physic and Economics will be men. Not 95% men. 100% men. Now maybe when that begins to change, we&#039;ll know women are making some intellectual progress and closing a real gap that&#039;s not just a current social habit.

Finally, I&#039;m not sure what mere majority of numbers even really means. Young men are attracted to a wide range of outdoor, physical, hazardous, and mechanical jobs that pay a high school grad better than many of your women PhDs. Men are virtually the only ones to do these necessary jobs, leaving a vacancy among the social scientists and marketing professionals of the world that someone has to fill. If not women, who else does these jobs? Robots?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone ever doubted that girls could do the simple arithmetic and algebra that appear on the ACT and SAT  &#8212; levels of math that are taught by 8th or 9th grade. Or that they could handle high school-level trig and precalculus; or even major in math in college. </p>
<p>The word &#8220;computer&#8221; after all once referred to young female  mathematicians doing donkey work. If the &#8220;gap&#8221; among teenagers is disappearing it&#8217;s probably a mix of massive encouragement for young women, better test preparation available for those motivated to take advantage, and the feminization of schooling that further alienates and de-motivates young men.</p>
<p>But as No Name touches on above, the real sex difference is that (so far) men have been the ones most interested when it gets hard, and emphatically masters of the abstract boundaries of math and physics. One can hardly stress the historical dominance here &#8212; 100% male among leading edge intellects is scarcely an exaggeration. That far exceeds the male dominance seen in fields that are male-dominant merely by social convention &#8212; rulers, soldiers, pilots, etc. History has its Elizabeths and Joans of Arc and Amelia Earhearts and female pirates, but ALMOST zero great female mathematicians and physicists (count em on one hand. A hand with two or three fingers missing.)</p>
<p>Hence the next group of Fields Medal winners will all be men. The next winners of the Nobel prizes in Physic and Economics will be men. Not 95% men. 100% men. Now maybe when that begins to change, we&#8217;ll know women are making some intellectual progress and closing a real gap that&#8217;s not just a current social habit.</p>
<p>Finally, I&#8217;m not sure what mere majority of numbers even really means. Young men are attracted to a wide range of outdoor, physical, hazardous, and mechanical jobs that pay a high school grad better than many of your women PhDs. Men are virtually the only ones to do these necessary jobs, leaving a vacancy among the social scientists and marketing professionals of the world that someone has to fill. If not women, who else does these jobs? Robots?</p>
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		<title>By: Suzee Q</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-89219</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzee Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/girls-and-math-youve-come-a-long-way-baby/#comment-89219</guid>
		<description>Please folks.  Nothing stirs up more controversy than gender.  Mines bigger or better than yours...  Or my gender is the more put upon.  

Blah blah blah.  Boring.  I say Viva la difference!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please folks.  Nothing stirs up more controversy than gender.  Mines bigger or better than yours&#8230;  Or my gender is the more put upon.  </p>
<p>Blah blah blah.  Boring.  I say Viva la difference!</p>
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