Pajamas Media

73 Comments

1. David Thomson:

Superb advertising can only do so much. The most creative ad agency in the world cannot help their client sell outdated 286 computers or 1989 American Motors SUVs. There is only so much lipstick that one can put on a pig. General Motors is screwed. It is virtually impossible for any manufacturer to be successful while being micromanaged by government elected officials and bureaucrats. End of story. At the end of the day, Barack Obama calls the shots. He is their benevolent (if they are lucky) dictator. GM’s top executives must first, last, and foremost please their government bosses. The consumers rank a distant second place in their scheme of things. There is no hope until GM endures the process of bankruptcy. It must be able to rid itself of those onerous UAW contracts. The newly formed entity also has to be entirely independent of the government.

Aug 30, 2009 - 3:42 am 2. John "birther" Samford:

“In GM’s case, the automaker has product.”

Horse Manure! GM builds junk. That is not only a perception, but a fact. All the way up and down the line GM vehicles are inferior to their competition. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, they are losers.
No amount of shilling will change that.
GM is run ( was run? I have been out of the car biz for over a decade) by bean counters. No car men on the board, nobody in the upper levels of management that has ever burned an up.
They lost track of the business and think that the same marketing techniques that worked in the 60’s will work in the 90’s and in the 21st century. GM wouldn’t listen to their dealers. I know that for a fact because I was there when they blew off car people that were 3rd generation dealers.
You want to know what the biggest mistake they made was?
Killing the Camaro. Yep, the Camaro was junk. It was built by lazy drug addicts in an old plant that was held together with bailing wire and spit. Parts would fall off before we got the sled off the lot and busting bugs. BUT, it was sexy and it would run.
The bean counters never understood that getting ups on the lot was step #1. A hot, sexy car did that for FREE. No big ad budget, just a ramp out front and a good get ready crew and you are in business. The core of the car business is that 30 to 45 year old male. They aren’t going to buy that Camaro, but they sure like looking at it and remembering back when he had one in college and used to hang with the guys and cruise for burgers.
So as long as he’s on the lot your salespeople have a shot at him. With a wife and 1.8 kids, the Camaro days are over, but how about this nice Impala? Do you like the red or the blue?
And it didn’t take billions in ads that nobody watches any more.

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:04 am 3. Patrick Of Atlantis:

As long as GM and Chrysler are associated with Obama, there is going to be a boycott by scores of millions of Obamaphobes. So, sales in the U.S. look “hope”-less,and are probably going to “change” for the worse. In Arabia and Venezuela and Indonesia, sales of SUVs may go through the roof however, if GM and Chrysler still make them.

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:07 am 4. cedarhill:

No GM, no Chrysler, no way, no time. No matter how many Obama’s the ad agencies tell. No matter even if Obama gives the cars away. Or offers you health care.
Never again.

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:46 am 5. Steve Sampson:

I will no longer buy or even rent a GM product. The stigma attached to GM and the Obama, Acorn, and SEIU axis of Communism is more than repulsive enough for me to never consider buying from GM or Chrysler. They can advertise till hell freezes and tell me about a vehicle that is twenty times better, my answer will always be the same, “I won’t take it if you give it to me!”

Communism is a vile plague upon the earth and I wont contribute to its proliferation

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:46 am 6. Jimbo:

You overrate Bob Lutz. I worked for Exide (the battery manufacturer) when he was CEO and he proved to be ineffective there. We went bankrupt six months after he left. Lutz may be a great adman but he is a poor crisis manager, which is what GM needs. Lutz is more comfortable when surrounded by pretty marketing people in fancy suits but is unfamiliar with cost cutting in a brutal operations environment where one needs to deal in the less pretty world of middle managers, formen, blue collar workers, accountants, shop stewards, etc. GM needs to abandon their country-club mentality and make some really hard decisions about cutting costs and improving efficiency. Sorry, but prima donnas like Lutz don’t have what it takes. GM would do better to re-staff their upper ranks with some real turn-around veterans.

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:49 am 7. Increase Mather:

I live in Michigan. Most of my family worked in the US auto industry for decades. Through the eighties I was loyal to American cars.

Problem was…they didn’t run very well. I’ve had Chrysler and GM products, which were new cars, that didn’t work. Stalled, shook, smoked. Took ‘em back to the dealers who answers were…that’s how they’re made.

Now on my second Toyoto…change the oil and they run for 175,000 miles mostly without any trouble.

How does GM defeat this history?

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:50 am 8. Rich Vail:

I won’t ever buy any product from Governement Motors ever again. I sold my cobalt when the Obama Administration voided the warranty and I bought I 2003 Toyota Echo. Nope, never again. The only “American” car company I’ll ever consider purchasing a car from is Ford…they didn’t take the 30 pieces of silver…

Aug 30, 2009 - 5:04 am 9. Jack Olson:

No, GM cannot restore its image or win back its customers with advertising.

Remember the much-parodied slogan “This is not your father’s Oldsmobile”? They used it because they heard in one focus group after another that an Oldsmobile was “the kind of car your father would drive.” So GM changed their slogan and kept on building inferior cars until finally they decided to kill the moribund brand. Today, General Motors is the kind of company your father would buy a car from.

Aug 30, 2009 - 5:26 am 10. chris in Toronto:

GM is in trouble because the consumers no longer trust the company. Plain and simple. Advertising may be able to paper over some of the ill will, but the trust is gone. Even non-righties I’ve spoken with will never buy a GM or Chrysler product again. They’re worried about warranty honoring and inferior parts being used and so on. They’re not concerned, or they won’t admit to being concerned, about the philosophical aspects of “government motors”, but they’ve made the connection between the DMV, the post office and government run motor companies. Stellar advertising will only prolong these companies’ death spirals.

Aug 30, 2009 - 5:39 am 11. Rashputin:

Pouring government money into GM and ignoring bankruptcy laws is the most obvious instance of politicians paying off their donors in our history and you’re wondering how much advertising will help them? They say that people are wise to dishonest advertising, so how about, “Bribes WORK! Help us celebrate our huge kickback!” for an ad campaign? All the Libprogocrat numbskulls I know are driving Japanese and European cars; see how many of them are swayed by advertising and change their buying habits to support their “brothers” in the UAW.

I was rooting for GM to go through bankruptcy and negotiate arrangements with both their unions and their suppliers. Instead, the UAW spent decades and millions in union dues buying themselves democrat politicians and had those politicians hand GM over to them after ignoring bankruptcy laws. This nationalization of GM has nothing to do with “essential to the economy” or the same democrat politicians would have fought to save the steel industry that actually is essential to the economy. But liberals don’t like nasty steel works, grubby coal mines, or anything else that creates from the most basic resources rather than by watching robots manipulate imported materials or by typing at their keyboards. Even engineers of all sorts are on their chit list because they know that facts cannot be ignored.

I went from planning to buy a GM vehicle after the dust settled in order to help an American company get back on its feet to swearing I’ll never buy another GM vehicle. It’s now obvious that any money spent with GM is just a donation to the democrat party laundered through their yapping lap dogs in the UAW.

Have a nice day

Aug 30, 2009 - 6:06 am 12. Tomp:

The first $2500 price of a GM car goes to cover retired workers pensions?
No way.

Aug 30, 2009 - 6:22 am 13. Doug:

My 2006 Chevrolet pickup has 120,000 miles on it and has never been back to the dealer. The only costs to date have been tires, shocks and oil changes. Will I buy another GM vehicle, Hell No! Not as long as the UAW and Chairman Zero own GM, and the same goes for Chrysler.

Aug 30, 2009 - 6:26 am 14. CatoRenasci:

I don’t know about anyone else, but I and my family will never buy a Government Motors product – no GM, no Chrysler. Maybe a Ford, more likely a Japanese or European car. We keep cars for a decade or more after buying relatively expensive, well-appointed cars with reputations for longevity (Volvo, Saab, Honda) new – American cars just don’t fit into the mix.

Aug 30, 2009 - 6:29 am 15. Ruebacca:

GM does not exist any more. It is UAW motors. Buying a GM product is tantamount to making a donation to the democratic party. GM is now a welfare program and that’s how Obama likes it. When GM asks for more money next year their will be hell to pay.

GM needed to go into ch11 and cut all ties to UAW. A GM free of UAW rules and interference would have roared back to life.

Aug 30, 2009 - 6:30 am 16. Sebastian Shaw:

Government cannot run businesses effectively; in fact, most government run businesses are failures since they run it like any other bureaucracy when ant traditional business model should work in any private industry. GM & Chrysler will fail on these merits. They will become subsidies of the government always going back to ask for more money to make up for their bottom line. President Obama has given the UAW the keys to the kingdom, yet that same kingdom will rot from the decay of mediocrity thanks to the same corrupt unions. The product speaks for itself & people have rejected it.

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:12 am 17. WorriedAmerican:

I agree with Chris in Toronto — as I see it the real problem is that I can’t trust GM or Chrysler to actually support the mid-sized and large cars, trucks, and SUVs that most A/mericans (including me) want to buy. I believe Obama’s cronies and their supporters have the true feelings of Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248) and would cheerfully force us into “Smart” (Deathtrap) micro-cars and public transport on the European model in an instant as soon as they can do so. So even though the GM SUVs like the 2006 -2009 Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade/Suburban (different versions of the same vehicles, even through two revisions) are really nice, have electronic 4WD, and very reliable (I’ve driven them on trips when I had to haul large items), will they be supported when I need parts or repairs? How soon until Obama and his cronies manipulate the laws to tax them out of existence?

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:15 am 18. RE:

Government Motors can come up with the best ad campaign in the world, but I still won’t consider buying one.

There are simply too many more honorable options out there – which makes me wonder what sort of mischief the government has in mind for their competition.

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:18 am 19. G. Gusack:

My lease on a General Motors (old GM) was just up and I determined that I would not lease another one from Government Motors (new GM). I was looking at the Buick Enclave. I had a running e-mail exchange with one of the new GM execs explaining why I would not be leasing and he gave me all sorts of bureaucratic mishmash. I told him I would not in any way reward Obama’s socialistic action of taking over a major industry of the private market. One of the beauties of our historic free market system is the right to succeed and the possibility to fail. Bailouts are not the answer; let the market and the people alone to make their way. Now the great sucking sound we hear is Government Motors joining Amtrak in slurping up our tax dollars. It didn’t have to be this way, and I will not be a part of it.

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:32 am 20. Will:

As sorry as Iam, not for me. I’ll buy American unless Ford caves to government socialistic rule.

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:42 am 21. Bilgeman:

Mr. Douglas:

The market has already spoken.

What makes did people buy who took advantage of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?

It wasn’t GM products, was it?

And some feeb actually sold his Corvette for $4500 to have it killed. That was a slap in the face to GM’s premier product.

Stupid booger-eater could have made at least that much parting that sled out.

GM/UAW are toast.

They’ll split fleet sales to the rental companies and the Fuzz with Chrysler, but that ain’t going to be enough.

They’ve screwed their dealership system and their salesmen and the mechanics who work at those dealerships.

They’d better work up an ad campaign something like this:

“General Motors…America’s Premier Builder of Used Cars!”.

That’s he only way I’d consider buying a GM vehicle. From the secondhand market.

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:54 am 22. Eric:

I don’t care how great the advertising is, how great the cars are, or how low the prices may be I will NEVER buy another GM vehicle because they took government money and are now part owned by the despised UAW. I hope GM goes out of business permanently. Soon.

The long running irony of not only GM but of Ford and Chrysler as well is that their biggest, most loyal, customers are conservatives. Conservatives are far more likely to be buyers of trucks and SUVs which were the bread and butter of the Big 3. The irony is that Conservatives helped the UAW and the Democrat party through their purchases of Big 3 vehicles. Now that GM and Chrysler have become government entities, for all intents and purposes, many Conservatives will no longer buy their vehicles and thus they’re toast.

Aug 30, 2009 - 8:05 am 23. NCBob:

GM makes junk and it will get worse! I don’t think you understand how this works. The UAW is now part of ownership, not just opposition. The UAW wants more and more for doing less and less.
I don’t know when the last UAW member was fired for shoddy work. I am comfortable that it will be a long time before the next one is. So either poor workers are put where they can do little damage (in seniority order?) and still paid or they are kept on the line and given the overtime opportunities that others get. Either way, costs go up and quality goes down.
And, what American would buy a commie car? The avoidance of anything GM, union or UAW is a passive vote against Obama and his goons.

Aug 30, 2009 - 8:05 am 24. Bender:

A body cannot live long when it is infested with leeches and tapeworms, as Government Motors is infested with the UAW. The company has to sell gazzilions of cars before it sees even one penny in profit due to the UAW sucking all the life and strength out of it.

Aug 30, 2009 - 8:11 am 25. The UnPatriot:

The UnPatriot and family will, on principle alone, not buy a GM product.

–The UnPatriot

Aug 30, 2009 - 8:34 am 26. sallie:

We will no longer consider GM products. They can take their union and fall completely apart for all I care.

Aug 30, 2009 - 8:53 am 27. JED:

I would buy GM again when all the congressmen, senators, union bosses, and president turns themselves in for high crimes, misdomeanors, and porkulus access to the public treasury!

Aug 30, 2009 - 9:36 am 28. Kim:

I feel compelled to comment. ( I agree with most of the comments here.)

My family has worked for and made their careers and lives with GM. Grandfather worked 46 years for Chevrolet starting in 1919. Father, Mother, Sisters, Brother-in-Laws, Uncles, Aunts, and Cousins, all worked and retired from GM. (I worked there for 6yrs myself)

My whole family believed in the product and invested in it. Not only driving the cars but, buying their stocks.

I one act of thievery, the abandonment of “The Rule of Law”, the Government and UAW came in and made their investments worthless. Instead of going into bankruptcy were investments would have stood a chance of recovering something for their loyalty, they (Government and UAW) came and stole it all.

Forming two company’s, 1. General Motors Company 2. Motors Liquidation Company

Putting all the “good” assets in General Motors Company. All the “bad” assets (and the stock holders) into Motors Liquidation Company. (Which, on their web site, it says will NEVER have any value!)

Way to Government, building (no) confidence in our system! Makes me want to invest in a company?

The only way I’ll ever buy another GM car will be on the secondary market. (After some sucker has ate all the loss.)

Rashputin:

Pouring government money into GM and ignoring bankruptcy laws is the most obvious instance of politicians paying off their donors in our history and you’re wondering how much advertising will help them? They say that people are wise to dishonest advertising, so how about, “Bribes WORK! Help us celebrate our huge kickback!” for an ad campaign? All the Libprogocrat numbskulls I know are driving Japanese and European cars; see how many of them are swayed by advertising and change their buying habits to support their “brothers” in the UAW……. I went from planning to buy a GM vehicle after the dust settled in order to help an American company get back on its feet to swearing I’ll never buy another GM vehicle. It’s now obvious that any money spent with GM is just a donation to the democrat party laundered through their yapping lap dogs in the UAW.

Morning the loss of my capitalist innocence and the overt socialism of my government!

Aug 30, 2009 - 10:33 am 29. Meryl:

Not with my family or anyone we know. And I will specify that nobody’s “being ugly about it” or even sarcastic. They’re just not going to pour good money after bad, when we all now know that we are obligated (against our will) to support GM and its union and its retirees with our tax dollars until kingdom come (or sometime shortly thereafter).

Enough is enough. And what Government Motors has done is way more than enough. We’re not mad. We’re just done being played for fools and acting like we don’t notice.

Aug 30, 2009 - 11:43 am 30. Calvin Ball:

When I hear GM, I think LIAR. They threw any an all credibility that they ever had out the window with that 230 mpg lie. It’s going to be a cold day in hell before I ever have any trust or confidence in them after that stunt.

The EPA, co-conspirator in this lie, I expected to lie.

Aug 30, 2009 - 12:08 pm 31. Professor Guvinoff:

Bankruptcy was created to salvage whatever is salvageable in the most civilized way possible. The new GM is the fruit of bankruptcy avoidance (Since marketing trumps all else it was called “managed bankruptcy”), so whatever substance is still in there is not going to be managed by economic considerations, hence the customer disgust. What’s left? DNC as a marketing agency?

The Volt may be a valid concept, but its production schedule is likely to be driven by the electoral calendar instead of investment time tables, which is already a difficult standard to go by. Cost? That’s the one consideration that was ruled out of the new management philosophy. If the car comes out, its sticker shock will turn it into an auto-immobile, some innovation!

Aug 30, 2009 - 12:27 pm 32. Professor Guvinoff:

Forgot one thing: The whole scheme was presumably not intended to help Ford, but unintended consequences always work their magic!

Aug 30, 2009 - 12:30 pm 33. Chris in Toronto:

#31: Professor Guvinoff: “Auto-immobile”. That’s hilarious! Good one!

Aug 30, 2009 - 2:06 pm 34. Fantom:

Ditto me for never buying GM(Government Motors) again. For 30 years that was all I bought.

No more. Well maybe when the shares are given back to the People and not union and obama owned.

Till then.. no more.

Aug 30, 2009 - 3:08 pm 35. Drider:

GM can start their super awesome, super expensive ad campaign whenever they wish, I honestly hope there are a ton of people out there who feel the same way I do……fugetaboutit, GM is dead to me so mark me down as the anti- American/socialist/marxist/Obamunist column.
Put that in your habitual bus riding, colorful tee shirt wearing ,beat up the black man selling button, “It isn’t America anymore..Ok” pipe and smoke it.

Aug 30, 2009 - 3:11 pm 36. Mike2:

Mr. Douglas, I guess you got your answer from all the comments here. Lots of people feel the same way as most of the posters including me. It’s either Ford or foreign for me from now on.

Speaking of Ford, how long will it be until the Obama administration gets the UAW to wildcat them to try and force them into the same position as GM and Chrysler?

Aug 30, 2009 - 3:30 pm 37. njcommuter:

My ultimate reason for not buying a GM car is that not only do they contain a remote tracking device which you cannot shut off, they have remote shutoff which you cannot disable.

GM should not be in the business of enabling the police state.

Aug 30, 2009 - 3:40 pm 38. John "birther" Samford:

Hey Professor, every time I hear some maroon promoting electric cars, I ask them; “If Electric cars are so great, why doesn’t the Post office use them?” That gets me blank looks and the Maroon finds some excuse to wander off (Oh look, there’s Algore… And he has a bag of carbon credits!). That suits me since the less exposure I have to maroons, the happier I am.

“The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others.”
–Bertrand Russell

Aug 30, 2009 - 3:57 pm 39. Sonar:

Mr. Douglas writes, “P as in Product”; then writes an article about marketing.
From the very first comment on “P as in Pig”; Marketing is lipstick.

I work with men in their 60’s who are passionately loyal to (American) auto brands. I enjoy talking to anyone on what they are passionate about (even if I am not). Passion remains from youth. Passion remains from memories.
These guys fell in love with their first car.

Government Motors needs to forget about profit for their first several years. They need to build passion, they need to build their name, they need to build the best car they can build and sell even if they sell it at a loss, they need to get somebody influenceable into a car that moves them.

Manufacturing needs their brains washed. They need a traumatic shock, like losing a war. They need to read Edwards Deming with no attitude while reading.

If they’re able to make a car that is somebody’s first purchase, a car that satisfies, pleases them, there is hope. If they find the terms of the previous sentence sophomoric, mutually exclusive there is no hope.

Aug 30, 2009 - 4:31 pm 40. Disturber:

I first got my driver’s license at 17 in New Jersey. My friends and I loved cars, knew every model on the road on sight, and eagerly awaited the new model year when we would go to the dealers, get the literature and sit around dreaming of when we had enough money to buy a new one. We each had an old Ford or Chevy in the garage in some state of disassembly with spots of primer showing where we had soldered in and loving sanded out the dents and dings. GM and Ford ruled the car world as far as we were concerned. I used to spend summers with my Grandparents in Detroit where my parents grew up. One grandfather drove a red and white Ford Fairline and the other, a black Caddy. Kids there got licenses at 16 and every family in the Motor City had an American car. I remember my Grandfather’s neighbor wowing the neighborhood with a new Fairlane hardtop convertible where the top somehow moved into the trunk area at the push of a button.

Fast forward to the mid sixties when my father went to pick up his new Buick and it had Oldsmobile insignia where the Buick logo should have been. The Japanese cars were arriving and people were buying them. They were cheaper initially, but as time went on, quality superiority attracted buyers’ attention.

After grad school, I moved to California at the end of that decade. There sure were lots of foreign cars here. When I finally had enough job stability to buy a new car, it was a VW bus. No competition and we wanted to camp etc. Later came the first sedan. I went to the Chevy dealer and test drove whatever was the top of the line model. It was a boat. The sheetmetal didn’t fit together. The seats were uncomfortable. You had to pay extra for a radio, and it looked old. I tried the Pontiac and it wasn’t the hot car that I had remembered and admired and it drove just like that tired Chevy. I ended up buying a BMW midsize. It rode and handled great, a vast improvement over what GM offered.

Now many years later, I still travel a great deal on business. I rent cars all over the place and always ask for a GM car. Unquestionably, they sure look better. But they still have the same sloppy ride, the inadequate brakes, the pedestrian interiors, the inferior sound systems, and all too much of the legacy of the GM cars of the seventies. I would love to buy an American car and I will keep trying. I tried the Caddy and it just isn’t up to the standards of the German and Japanese luxury vehicles.

I don’t expect that to change especially with the government swimming in the soup. It is a sad story, but it is a true story and no amount of advertising is going to persuade folks like me to buy an inferiorly engineered and equipped vehicle at what is essentially the same price of what comes from abroad. I guess we just have to stick with computers

Aug 30, 2009 - 5:12 pm 41. Calvin Ball:

Oh, really now. A government enterprise is going to produce an excellent product that invokes passion. Like the Trabant.

Hitler went to Porsche to produce a car for the masses, and all he ended up with was a VW.

Other great moments in government cars: Lada, Dacia, Yugo, Wartburg, Polski Fiat. Even the Skoda was a pile of crap until they went private. Now they’re a pretty decent machine.

Aug 30, 2009 - 5:33 pm 42. Bill Kristen:

Yes, American cars are sadly inferior in many ways to European and Japanese and Korean cars. Very sad, but true. I stopped buying American cars when I learned that the union people were to get all those perks, like being pay after getting layed off, and all those stupid work rules that are longer than HR3200. The final straw was hearing that a union person was to be on the Board. Who is running the assylum? No thanks, I will not contribute to those union goons, and now to Obama and his ilk. American cars for me? No thanks, never again.

Aug 30, 2009 - 7:01 pm 43. Bruce:

GM is dead to me. If they were the only car company on earth, I would WALK instead.

Aug 30, 2009 - 8:00 pm 44. Aaron:

Hopefully GM can do something that will turn things around. Here in Michigan, everyone is hurting as a result of the failing auto industry.

Aaron
pba 2009

Aug 30, 2009 - 9:39 pm 45. Mike G:

I was deeply involved in computer integrated manufacturing throughout the 80’s and remember numerous instances where very ridiculous compromises had to be made to the UAW – always it seemed, so that nothing would threaten existing jobs or require any increases in productivity from workers. However, I also felt at the time that a lot of blame – for poor design and manufacturing – should be placed on Engineering and Management. But now I see more clearly that dominance of the unions and the strong union-supporting political climate made the US auto companies no place that would attract any real craftsmen or businessmen. Rather it attracted a government-like bureaucratic management that just kept kicking the can down the road. There really was no way to compete with non-union car companies and no incentive to try – the unions would always be there to collect a lion’s share of any improvements or successes. In a way this perfectly mirrors what will happen with the broader economy as a result of higher taxes, government sponsored unionization and hundreds of new governemnt regulations and interventions. Executives and Management positions will be filled by those skilled at playing along with politicians – not by those who know the technology and the markets of their respective businesses. I fear for where this takes us in terms of global competitiveness.

Aug 30, 2009 - 11:19 pm 46. Drider:

Aaron in Michigan, I honestly am sorry that this entire free enterprise takeover is effecting your state in a bad way. For years the frustration of GM’s poor decisions, primarily in caving to government and UAW demands left a seriously bad taste in people’s mouths but so be it, it was up to GM and shareholders to deal with it as they chose, I personally bought numerous Chevy cars in the past but I will be damned if I take it anymore with the government pouring taxpayer money into GM,hand the company to the unions or at least try to and expect folks to view it as an American company.
It is now part of a socialist machine of which many people will avoid like the plague.Michigan isn’t alone in the jobs department by the way, other states are suffering from double digit unemployment and just imagine what this health garbage will do, it’s a job killer across the board on a titanic scale of the likes this Country has never seen.

Good luck to you.

Aug 31, 2009 - 4:11 am 47. Joe:

#40 Disturber: Oh how well I remember. Got my first license at 15 (after several tries on the dreaded test ride). My first car was a ‘66 Ford Falcon. You could actually see the engine and all the components and do basic work. We all lived and breathed American cars, and the ultimate dreame was the corvette. Later on, VWs came into the picture. My friends & I drove one VW bug around the country and Canada one memorable summer. Besides flat tires, there were no problems. My Grandpa had a 1960 Buick with the huge fins. That was such a nice ride. Like everyone posting here, I belive the gov’t needs to get the hell out of the car business.

Aug 31, 2009 - 6:27 am 48. another Chuck:

Relax Obamotors doesn’t need us. Didn’t you know that, like heathcare, wheels are a right? Simply churn out endless quantities of green jellybeans and hand them out to the low income families. And in one fell swoop, three big dogs of the democratic regime are fed. The poor, the unions and the eco-elites. A perpetual motion machine, Chicago style.

Aug 31, 2009 - 6:35 am 49. Indiana Redneck:

Here’s an awesome marketing concept for Ford and foreign car companies:

Find someone – anyone – and sit them in a chair in front of one of their cars. Look straight into the camera and say, “Why should you buy this car/truck/SUV? We didn’t take $50 billion dollars from the government.”

It works for me. My streak of owning GM products ended about the time they took the money from the government – I mean, from my wallet.

Aug 31, 2009 - 6:55 am 50. Texas Consumer:

Bought a Chevy Suburban 10 years ago and it has been a good vehicle. Normally, that should make me at least consider replacing it with a GM vehicle. But as a result of the government and UAW takeover of GM, I will never ever consider another GM vehicle. No advertisement, no great car will overcome my dislike for the actions of the government and UAW with respect to GM. The truth is, given the government’s and UAW’s involvement, GM will fail again within five years and there may not be any GM cars to market.

Aug 31, 2009 - 8:14 am 51. Lynn:

The United States Government’s “divine aid” to Japan helped kick start their auto industry at the time of the Korean War.

Heaven forbid we do the same for one of ours.

Drive around in your foreign car proudly, it is after all what our ancestors fought for, isn’t it?

Toyota’s salvation, our war.

Aug 31, 2009 - 8:29 am 52. Bilgeman:

#45 Mike G:
“However, I also felt at the time that a lot of blame – for poor design and manufacturing – should be placed on Engineering and Management. But now I see more clearly that dominance of the unions and the strong union-supporting political climate made the US auto companies no place that would attract any real craftsmen or businessmen. Rather it attracted a government-like bureaucratic management that just kept kicking the can down the road.”

A nice fair analysis. Whatever the UAW leadership’s flaws, it wasn’t THEIR decision to run Dexcool antifreeze in GM radiators.
Stuff turned to spooge and puddinged-up a lot of engines.

Nor was it the UAW’s decision to leave the Pontiac 400 cubic inch V-8 with a notoriously weak timing chain, instead of replacing it with timing gears.

I can only infer that it was Chrysler management that chose the supplier of the “guaranteed-to-break-by-60,000 miles” head gasket of the Dodge Neon, also.

UAW can be blamed for fit and finish issues, and a pension premium on all the cars made, but management has spent decades downsizing it’s work-force, totally heedless of the actuarial time-bomb this created…carried to it’s extreme, GM would have ONE working guy, and nothing BUT UAW pensioners.

Aug 31, 2009 - 2:19 pm 53. Blackwell:

GM ads won’t work with most people over 40:

THE ADS:
We remember the “Mark of Excellence,” and “Mr. Goodwrench” bs poured out to snare first time buyers.

THE CARS
Clueless and greedy GM management and the UAW churned out cars that rattled, leaked, broke down and were, dollar for dollar, the worst cars sold in the US. GM’s innovations topped with the automatic transmission and power brakes,a ll from the 50’s They should have promised me an Olds like my dad drove: that was a good car (delta 88, 1968).

Component parts got progressively more unreliable. Lights, generators, window motors….you name it, got worse not better. GM cars were designed and engineered by people who gave no thought to improving the car and making it more reliable and comfortable.

GM ads aren’t likely to work with most people under 40 either: younger people grew up attached to the brands their parents drove: or they’re revulsed at the rattling claptraps made by GM and aiming to “tade up” to a lexus or mercedes. GM is almost irrelevant in California and a 20 year old about to buy their first car (and I mentioned the German, Japanese and US car companies )asked me “What is GM?”

THE BLAME:
Lynn, its not the government; its not the consumers who want reliable decent cars that work, don’t feel obligated to support the UAW’s pensions and work rules system, and –gasp–look like they were styled by someone with eyesight. Its GM’s cluseless management and the greedy unions. They abandoned their customers. Ads won’t help them now.

Aug 31, 2009 - 2:22 pm 54. The Toad:

Government/UAW ownership of General Motors equals higher cost, lower quality, endless problems.
Government/UAW ownership of Chrysler equals higher costs, lower quality, endless problems.
Solution? Don’t buy them. Ever! I won’t.

Aug 31, 2009 - 2:23 pm 55. Calvin Ball:

They should have promised me an Olds like my dad drove: that was a good car (delta 88, 1968).

And if they floated, Teddy would have been president instead of Nixon.

Maybe GM junk saved us from an even bigger catastrophe.

Aug 31, 2009 - 2:55 pm 56. Rashputin:

51. Lynn:

If GM would have been forced to agree to the same system of engineering and sensible employee policies and work rules that Japan has had since WWII helping GM wouldn’t be a problem. You not only managed to totally misunderstand the heart of the problem which is that GM refuses to manage itself like it gives a damn, you also managed to blame the customer for refusing to buy crap.

GM had DECADES of warning that this crisis was coming and for all that time was supported by millions of loyal customers who were rooting for them to improve and cheering them on. Now those same people are seeing their tax dollars taken to ensure that the failed system stays in place and never changes. Had GM faced the music it would have come out of bankruptcy with a lot of people in their corner. GM has no one to blame but themselves and they’d have gone under in the 70s had not the public badly wanted them to succeed.

Only a complete dolt could compare this situation to post-war Japan or Germany. Geez, buy a clue the next time you get your head out of whatever it stays stuck in while you type.

have a day

Aug 31, 2009 - 2:57 pm 57. Bilgeman:

#51 Lynn:
“Drive around in your foreign car proudly, it is after all what our ancestors fought for, isn’t it?

Toyota’s salvation, our war.”

Not to pile on, but your GM was assembled in Mexico by Mexicans, while that guy’s Honda was assembled in Ohio assembled by Americans.

Who is driving the “Foreign” car, again?

Aug 31, 2009 - 3:52 pm 58. Bilgeman:

“new for 2010…the GM EcoCrat GT!

The exciting new personal transportation option that is guaranteed to recycle itself by the next election campaign.

Why not wait in line at the few politically-favored dealerships left to test-drive one?

You’ve already paid us to make most of it, you might as well buy the rest.

We are Government Motors…
one way or another, you’re GONNA buy this car!”

Aug 31, 2009 - 4:02 pm 59. Lynn:

Yea, don’t mention $3.5 billion dollars into Japan, as much as West Germany and all they had to do was attack us, apples and oranges, apples and oranges. Hmmm I wonder what that adds up to into when factoring in inflation?

Thanks for rooting for GM while driving around in your Toyota and I bet your were cheering for the steel industry too. You might want to get your brain serviced, stand up and give it some air once in a while, it’s starving for lack of oxygen.

Aug 31, 2009 - 4:16 pm 60. Calvin Ball:

Is my Ford Ranger really a Mazda B4000, or is my neighbor’s Mazda B4000 really a Ford Ranger? I know that my body was made in the US, but so was his. And my engine and tranny were made in Japan, but so were his. In fact, they rolled down the same assembly line.

This is such a stupid argument; Airbus airplanes usually have GE or P&W engines. Boeing fuselages are made in Japan, and sometimes have Rolls engines. The days of national manufacturing are long gone.

And just as an aside, when an American company wants to make a million mile vehicle, they can. Just ask any owner of a Kenworth.

Aug 31, 2009 - 5:18 pm 61. Rashputin:

” … $3.5 billion dollars into Japan …”

ROTFLMAO. That’s a little over 66 billion in today’s money, do you even have any idea how much the government is laying out for GM to burn?

I’m sorry, I realize now you’re, um, challenged and I should have mever commented to you. Just calm down and you’ll be fine.

LOL, sorry, but you’ve got to be playing games or something, no one is as stupid as you’re pretending to be.

thanks for the laughs

Aug 31, 2009 - 5:28 pm 62. Steve Sampson:

Excellent point Hoosier, I have a Dodge one ton here on the farm with 650,000 miles on it, the best truck I have ever owned. The rings are cracked now, but it still starts for farm work.

I was looking at a New Ford one ton the other day, that will be my next truck. I have two other ford one tons and they are still great trucks, running strong, an 81 and an 02. I recommend them to everyone.

Chevrolet, forget it, their trucks are strictly grocery store trucks, not meant to work. Maybe Obama can sell his GM and Chrysler trucks to Chavez and the Nut job in Iran, but they might not be his friends for very long after that trade deal.

Aug 31, 2009 - 8:11 pm 63. Jobama:

New car purchase before last, wanted a nice sedan. Went to the local Buick dealer to give them a chance, said I want to look at the next to largest model and the sales guy (from somewhere in the middle east) got an important phone call from his girl friend and said what I wanted was the giant grand roadmaster park avenue or whatever on the show room floor with an enormous price tag. This showroom queen had the chrome strip around the back window falling off! On the showroom floor. I didn’t wait for him to get off the phone, I went and bought a Maxima and never regretted it. No visits to GM dealers since about 86.

Aug 31, 2009 - 10:57 pm 64. LarryOldtimer:

The next “Cash for Clunkers” government program will be government rebates for buying new GM cars. As to the Volt, just what I don’t need . . . a vehicle which will require a $20,000 battery replacement between 30,000 and 50,000 miles.

Aug 31, 2009 - 11:16 pm 65. Lynn:

Hey, no problem, laughter’s the best medicine. Enjoy driving around in your foreign car while you feel bad for the country. HaHaHa!

Your the cheerleader with the pompoms, right? Cute. Gimme a F! Gimme a U!

Sep 1, 2009 - 5:40 am 66. blackwell:

Lynn at 65:

Would I be better off in an indifferently assembled GM “car” that breaks down on the way to work and consumes more of my repair budget?

Would the US be better with millions of GM owners spending more on their cars than they should to suport a bloated GM and UAW? (and reward sloppy workers and cluless management?)

Me and my family are better off in what I want: a reliable fashionable automobile: the US is better off with non-GM workers doing decent work on time–people that bring in foreign purchases and don’t need to drain money from our fellow citizens to support a lot of indifferent workers and greedy executives.

Sep 1, 2009 - 11:41 am 67. Mark:

I had two bad GM cars (from GM dealers) in the 1980s, one new and one used. Horrible experiences. Since then I’ve owned several new Japanese cars. Not fond of Nissan but Toyota and Honda cannot be beat.

Combined with the government bailout, I never intend to buy a GM product again.

Forget about Chrysler. Six sigma designed to fall apart after 6 or 7 years. Real smart to have the secondary car market impression of your car being junk. Young buyers start in the secondary market. After experiencing Chrysler as a used car, why would you ever buy a new one?

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:26 am 68. goy:

Car buying is not about “image” (and please, let’s not confuse a company’s image with the image of a particular product).

Corporatist meddling by the federal government aside, GM will not significantly improve its position in the market until it improves its level of Quality – and that’s spelled with a capital “Q”.

There’s a reason GM was ripe for seizure by the feds. They suck at quality. Image repair won’t help in that regard. No one I know has been satisfied with a GM auto for as long as I can remember. This phenomenon has continued right up through present day, when I looked outside last week to see my neighbor’s 2009 Camaro embedded in our front yard’s flower garden. The parking brake failed to hold the car on the tiny grade in his garage! The car rolled back, out of the garage, down the driveway, across the street and into our yard. Thank God no kids or another car happened to be in its path.

A quick search revealed that this problem is not unique to my neighbor, and caused by a cost-cutting, crap design that GM has been using for years. In this case, it’s “too expensive” to design a PB that engages the brakes, so a low-quality drum brake is activated by the PB – which is only reliable when the vehicle is in a nose-down orientation.

Quality. That’s capital “Q”. Write it down.

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:51 am 69. Rick:

Cheebus, goy (68), that’s just depressing. And to think I was actually considering the new Camaro to replace my 20-year-old Toyota at my next opportunity. Scratch that, now! Looks like it’ll be a Ford or Ford-owned subsidiary from here on out.

Sep 2, 2009 - 9:12 am 70. goy:

@69. Rick: – Cheebus, goy (68), that’s just depressing. And to think I was actually considering the new Camaro to replace my 20-year-old Toyota at my next opportunity.

Tell me about it. And this guy LOVES him his cars. He was in tears – it scraped the side of his truck in the driveway on the way down, damaging both considerably. Genuinely depressing.

Even with their new, guaranteed-to-fail “management”, I still wanted a Camaro. Have ever since Mom sold our ‘68 convertible all those years ago and especially because the new body style is awesome! Unfortunately, it’s style over substance I guess.

This or next was going to be the year to replace my 10-year-old Maxima – even against my better judgment (I contract independently now, mostly telecommute, so I presently log less than 1000 mi/yr – so a ‘cool’, ‘fun’ car seemed justifiable). My ‘91 Maxima carried me over 230,000 mi., on one engine and minimal maintenance – it’s at 275k today and STILL being driven, by a third owner, with the original engine! Try THAT with a GM car. A union-owned, union-run shop will never, ever achieve that level of quality.

Sep 2, 2009 - 11:15 am 71. Scott:

GM & Chrysler are toast, nothing but wasted tax dollars.

I’ll never buy a GM or Chrysler product, and I like the Challenger, Charger and Camero a lot, but no way no how.

Ford is still an option in my book.

Sep 2, 2009 - 12:46 pm 72. TL:

I’ll NEVER buy a car made by the U.S. government! No advertising campaign will ever change that. No great product will ever change that. No price will ever change that. If GM were the last “option” out there I’d walk instead. I just don’t roll that way. Get that through your thick heads.

Sep 2, 2009 - 3:19 pm 73. Mitch Jalandoni:

I bought a brand new ‘86 Grand Prix for $12,500 with 4 years to pay. At that time it was a considerable amount to pay since it almost double the price when it was finally paid-off. 1st to go was its body which accumulated rust even before I finish the monthly payments. Quality-wise I would not go for another GM product, since I found out its lifetime value was zero when I disposed of it. Finding out also that GM management pays workers even if they have close their plants or have no production did not sit well with me.

Sep 19, 2009 - 5:53 am

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