Pajamas Media

63 Comments

1. Martin Lindeskog:

Here is an excerpt from my post, Time To Go On Strike? from October 16, 2008.

“In one way, I am partially on strike, waiting for an invitation to the Galt’s Gulch, but I think it is worth fighting for a second renaissance due to the fact that The Ayn Rand Institute is doing a great job on spreading better ideas, giving moral support to businessmen and capitalists, and teaching the New Intellectuals in Ayn Rand’s philosophy, Objectivism.”

I am an American in spirit, living in Gothenburg, Sweden, at the moment. I studied and worked in the United States of America between 1997 – 2002. It was the time of my life and I want to return to the Land of Opportunity. I don’t think Obama himself will establish a similar state that could be taken from Atlas Shrugged, but it has been a long journey towards dictatorship. Have you read the book, “The Ominous Parallels: A Brilliant Study of America Today – and the ‘ominous parallels’ with the chaos of pre-Hitler Germany” by Dr. Leonard Peikoff?

But I am still positive, philosophically speaking, that a change could happen. Paul Hsieh wrote a great piece (Ayn Rand and the Tea Party Protests) on Pajamas Media. Money quote: “If Americans wish to save America, we must couple our outrage at the government bailouts with a positive vision of a properly limited government.”

Mar 5, 2009 - 2:39 am 2. Parabellum:

I am, but there’s no way I’ll be on a video on the internet explaining how I’m dodging federal taxes.

Sorry Doc.

Mar 5, 2009 - 7:04 am 3. Self-hating Boomer:

My question is, who isn’t currently erring on the side of not paying taxes? If half the 0bama cabinet are known to cheat on their taxes (and generally get away with it), how much more shrugging is already going on elsewhere in the economy? Nevermind the hopeychange, if donkeys don’t have to pay their taxes now, screw ‘em if they think the rest of us should.

We’re about to see a graphic demonstration of the Laffer curve.

Mar 5, 2009 - 8:32 am 4. Freddie Funky:

Does unintentionally making less money count as going John Galt?

Mar 5, 2009 - 8:37 am 5. Sally:

Yes, we are preparing to remove ourselves from the economy, to an extent. We have purchased acreage far from the city, where we will slowly build our own house. We will raise vegetables and fruit, chickens and rabbits, etc. We will trade labor and food with our neighbors, and try to become as self-sufficient as possible.

I was quite upset and concerned when people were mislead enough to elect Obama, but now I feel like we have an escape, and now I can sleep better at night. Maybe someday we can actually receive some of the retirement funds we put aside previously, and use it to travel or whatever. But I’m not counting on it. I’m not counting on anything but myself and my husband.

Mar 5, 2009 - 8:57 am 6. Janet:

I am going Galt. I have resigned from my job in order to deliberately lower my income as far as possible and am moving out of the country to wait things out. I am squarely in the crosshairs of the inevitable confiscatory taxes he supports and refuse to work even harder so that some welfare-dependent crack addict can buy a new flat screen television. I won’t come back until Obama is out of office and/or his disastrous policies are reversed. I am going “on strike” on April 1 and going where the looters can’t get to me.

Mar 5, 2009 - 9:20 am 7. glenn:

Anybody who is really going John Galt sure as stuff isn’t going to tell the world about it.

Mar 5, 2009 - 9:23 am 8. Delia:

I’m going ‘Plain Jane Galt’. We’re not going to make any more many than we need to just survive on which means we will be living wellllll below the high income tax bracket.

Why work for the government?! WHY? No point in it. NO incentive whatsoever.

I’m also getting the $15,000.00 of the dental work I’ve been putting off done. If you want to say ‘hello’ to my 401k it will be in my mouth now.

Who is going to be encouraged to succeed and feed the gravy train any longer if they are taxed so deeply that all of their hard work is worthless? NOBODY, that’s who.

Hey, maybe if we go really broke we can go on the gov. dole too and suck off the monopoly money making teat.

-See? That’s socialism in a nutshell.

POINTLESS.

Mar 5, 2009 - 9:47 am 9. Harold:

I’m with Parabellum. But I sure would like to know how he’s going to do it.

Mar 5, 2009 - 10:02 am 10. MetaForJohnGalt:

“By the rules and terms of my code one owes a rational statement to those whom it does concern and who’re making an effort to know.” – ThisIsJohnGaltSpeaking\AtlasShrugged\AynRand

There is some cause for uncertainty for “those whom it does concern…” and it happens ‘after’-”going JohnGalt” and it’s “What now?” To this I can make a significant and reassuring contribution to your thread through a citation of what the fictional JohnGalt says to all potential strikers in the novel: “I told them that they were right.” … “that it is a moral crisis and it has to run for once it’s undisguised course.”

You see MissHelenSmith et al., John Galt and his motor are no longer just fiction as the missing piece of the puzzle has been invented ie) the motor that MissRand envisioned in the novel, as well as “The Gulch” are now a reality.
We meet every year during the month of June. Any of your reader/viewers that have “withdrawn their moral sanction” and “withdrawn their support” for the ‘looter/moocher’s code’ can e-mail or private message the accompanying link for further details.

“We found that we liked to meet – in order to be reminded that human beings still existed. So we came to set aside one month of the year…to rest, to live in a rational world, to bring our real work out of hiding, to trade our achievements – here, where achievements meant payment, not expropriation. …- for one month out of twelve. It made the eleven easier to bear.” – JohnGalt:DagnyTaggart@GatecrashersDinner

And I mean it.

$ JG $

Mar 5, 2009 - 10:04 am 11. Self-hating Boomer:

when I lived in Yugoslavia in 1980, everyone was John Galt. They all had day jobs, and they all had cottage businesses in their homes. They’d get up at 6, and be at their government jobs at 6:30. After about a 2-hour coffee break, they’d do a little work. Then it was lunch time. Then after a little more work, it was time for afternoon coffee. Then at 2:30 it was time to go home to their real jobs.

Mar 5, 2009 - 10:27 am 12. David H:

I have been doing it for a while now in the EUSSR, I made a mistake of earning a load of money and boy did I get taxed for it, afterwards I did not expand my business and was happy for my major client to reduce naturally as they now have, I am now down to 20% of my previous turnover, which is enough, next year I will be down to 5%, so that will do me along with my wifes salary and some rental income. Once you have a house all paid for and some properties rented out that pay for their loans, why bother!!!

Mar 5, 2009 - 10:30 am 13. Marc Malone:

Just look at the jobless numbers. They’re atronomical. I don’t think it’s just that business has frozen up. I think some small businesses are purposely scaling back in silent protest. They intend to weather the storm as best they may, and these are the people with the capability to do so. The people they release, however, are well and truly screwed. I think this also accounts for the gun sales and ammo shortage. These guys are scaling back and forting up.

Mar 5, 2009 - 11:39 am 14. johngaltlives:

My comments name says a lot about my opinion of Ayn Rands lead character. Right now, it doesnt make sense to give interviews stating about “going John Galt”. Rather, as most of the names here, im preparing as best I can. After Im well prepared, then Ill consider an interview. Also, another way to “go John Galt” would be to be to help the common man stock up on ammo and food. The way the little Soros buttkisser Obamaskank is going, we are going to need both

Mar 5, 2009 - 12:06 pm 15. Mary Jackson:

I didn’t recognise the allusion to Ayn Rand – she isn’t as widely known in the UK as in America, but she should be, as we’re further down the line than you and need her more than ever.

For the last ten years in the UK the cushy, non-productive public sector has grown and grown. Undeserving layabouts, whether in “work” (as outreach co-ordinators and diversity agents) or on welfare, leech from the productive, wealth-creating private sector.

With Obama, the US looks set to repeat our mistakes. (Obama reminds me of Tony Blair ten years ago.) Let’s hope not.

Mar 5, 2009 - 12:50 pm 16. M.P.:

I see people who are in the cross hairs of the over $250K just very quietly sitting on the sidelines. Hunkered down, not spending any money, not investing. A very quiet consumer, investor strike with no sign that they are going to emerge anytime soon.

Mar 5, 2009 - 2:14 pm 17. Parabellum:

*9. Harold

I’m self employed, and make things I sell to people. I give them a nice discount for cash payments. On my books I will show a net loss this year, as I did last year.

Mar 5, 2009 - 4:13 pm 18. Jaco:

I’ll be earning just as much as is worthwhile, which hacks me off, as I’ve been building my business over the last several years and am on the verge of being able to substantially increase revenues this coming year…..but I’ll be damned if I’m going to fuel the madness going on right now.

Mar 5, 2009 - 5:17 pm 19. The Undercurrent:

Our entire website is “going Galt”, i.e. spreading the philosophy of Ayn Rand, arguing for laissez-faire, and distributing articles on college campuses.

I suggest you look up the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights. They have fellows who are available to be interviewed:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_new

Mar 5, 2009 - 5:35 pm 20. Eric:

My wife and I until recently worked for a company that was bought by a larger rival. The deal was announced last June and three days after the announcement our house was on the market so we wouldn’t have a house when the inevitable layoffs started. Lucky for us we sold it in only 10 weeks although we did have to pay closing costs out of our own pocket.
We decided that one of us would leave our company before the layoffs so we wouldn’t suddenly find ourselves both out of work. I started my new job in Nov last year. She’s staying at her job until she gets laid off so she can collect her severance and we can pay ourselves back for our out of pocket closing costs.
As it became clearer that Obama might win the election we decided that should he win she wouldn’t go back to work after getting laid off. Considering that she made about half of our ~$200k 2008 earnings it’s a big hit to our income. But, since our only debt was a mortgage we can easily live on my salary alone. So our Galt strategy is for her to sit out Obama’s term. Our income drops by half and our tax liability drops by more than half. We won’t contribute any more than we absolutely have to. And if I could get her to leave the country I’d go tomorrow.

Mar 5, 2009 - 7:15 pm 21. John Galt:

Too bad the Federal Government isn’t going John Galt permanently.

Mar 5, 2009 - 7:39 pm 22. Tristan Yates:

I think its more likely for dual income couples. If your wife is going to get taxed on her first dollar at 39% Fed + 9% state + 8% fica then just stay home and watch Tyra. Next year she can work and you stay home.

Sometimes I think the whole reason the housing bubble formed was because people just wanted a couple bucks of tax-free income.

Mar 5, 2009 - 10:47 pm 23. Herb:

What a bunch of responsible citizens in here…

And smart, too! Especially Janet, who wrote: “I have resigned from my job in order to deliberately lower my income as far as possible and am moving out of the country to wait things out.”

Grow up, people.

Mar 6, 2009 - 4:29 am 24. Jaco:

Hey Herb, speaking of responsible citizens, how about all those cabinet appointees who have filched on their taxes? Excuse us for not being willing to enable these punks.

Mar 6, 2009 - 6:33 am 25. Billy Beck:

430-21-4093

That’s the social security number by which this government knows me. Anyone else is free to use it because I don’t.

I burned that card in 1977, but the number will never go away. It’s coming time, soon, I think, to tattoo it on a forearm the way Nazis did it. I have not filed an income tax return or paid a dime since that year, and I’ve wrecked my career over it, because I was never going to hand over what I love to cannibals.

I think this whole “Galt” gag now is adorably cute and far too late. Good luck. I hope it works out for you but I don’t think it will.

Mar 6, 2009 - 8:53 am 26. Janet:

Herb: your response makes it clear that you are a looter. By the way, I have an I.Q. of 156.

Mar 6, 2009 - 9:13 am 27. Samizdat:

I am well read, but have not read “Atlas Shrugged”. Without knowing the precedent behavior of Mr. Galt I started to “Galt” last August. I pay my taxes and bills on time, but only buy necessities and have cut discretionary spending by 60-70%. I am withholding investment. I have cut out air travel and have taken no vacations. I would ordinarily have gone to FL this winter, would visit TX in March and the Carolinas in April. Not any longer. I have been to three restaurants in the last 6 months, we used to go out several times a month. I am paying off debt. I entertain at home and have expanded my culinary skills. I pay for almost everything in cash when I have to buy a necessity. My credit card bills have shrunk by 70%.
There have to be millions of productive citizens who feel exactly as we do. There is tremendous potential power to influence if we can organize. The productive need to band together and blunt the political power of the unproductive. I would like more information on how we can network and engage with each other. I have conservative friends who own business interests where I do spend money.It would be great to know of others.
I suspected that I was not alone in my behavior. It is nice to know that others think and act as I do. I guess it’s time to read “Atlas Shrugged”.
Looking forward to seeing others thoughts.

Mar 6, 2009 - 9:14 am 28. Bret:

I would go John Galt but people invested in me and my company so I’m committed to doing the best I can for them as long as the company survives.

Mar 6, 2009 - 9:17 am 29. Herb:

“24. Jaco:

Hey Herb, speaking of responsible citizens, how about all those cabinet appointees who have filched on their taxes? Excuse us for not being willing to enable these punks.”

Who’s “us?” You, Parabellum, Janet, Tom Daschle, and Tim Geitner? Please… You brag about sabotaging your own business to avoid paying taxes and have the stones to complain about cabinet nominees not paying theirs?

Sorry if I don’t find that credible or persuasive. Funny though? Definitely…

“26. Janet:

Herb: your response makes it clear that you are a looter.”

What makes me a looter, Janet? That I’m not all that willing to cut off my nose to spite my face?

And really, Janet, I’m not impressed by your IQ score. Especially when your previous statement included the phrase “confiscatory taxes.” The tax rate in the highest bracket is going to go up from 35% to 39.6%…a whopping 4.6%. (OMFG! Tea Party Revolution! Let’s go John Galt!)

At what point between 35% and 39.6% does it become “confiscatory?”

Also, since you’re a genius, I’m sure you also understand how tax brackets work, and how you won’t be paying 39.6% if you make over $250,000. You’ll be paying 39.6% on anything over $250,000. That’s right…if you make $250,001, you’ll be paying the higher rate on a whole dollar!

And let’s be real here, since you’re already making five times the median salary in this country(ie, most people), I don’t think an extra 5 cents on the dollar is too much to ask. That’s what you would have been paying in the 90s, a period in our country we all remember as the “boom years.”

Oh, and Obama doesn’t have to raise taxes. He’s letting the Bush tax cuts expire. Which they were intended to do. By the people who passed them. (IE, Bush and his Republican congress.) So really, if you want to point fingers at someone for “the inevitable confiscatory taxes,” you should blame him for not making them permanent.

But of course…blame isn’t the name of the game here. The name of the game is how do we get our country out of this financial mess.

And guess what? “I have resigned from my job in order to deliberately lower my income as far as possible and am moving out of the country to wait things out.” ain’t gonna do it.

Mar 6, 2009 - 9:47 am 30. Samizdat:

Herb,
I am an extremely responsible citizen. I live within my means, volunteer in the local community and am part of a business that employs and health insures 15 people in well paying jobs. Most of our employees have been with our company for many years and are productive, highly capable people. A number of them voted for Obama and are now rethinking that choice.
Why should I enable a government and populace that treats me like a lamprey eel does a salmon? I am sick and tired of a bundled together group of misguided, ignorant, misfits (a significant portion of the Democrat constituency) who care little for our traditions and history, and who ignore fact consistently controling the agenda of the productive.It is high time that they start putting a shoulder to the wheel. I don’t believe that is about to occur, so I have decided that the economy can suffer without the discretionary spending I once contributed. If it hastens the down fall of the representatives of the unproductive, so be it. By the way, I view my dissent as patriotic and in the best long term interests of our country and its citizens. I am done supporting the social anarchists amoung us. I refuse to be part of the fellowship of the miserable.

Mar 6, 2009 - 10:08 am 31. Jaco:

Herb said: “Who’s “us?” You, Parabellum, Janet, Tom Daschle, and Tim Geitner? Please… You brag about sabotaging your own business to avoid paying taxes and have the stones to complain about cabinet nominees not paying theirs?”

Bitching, not bragging, Herb. Don’t know why you lumped me in with Daschle and Geithner, I do pay my taxes, you missed my point by a mile. I have no intention of sabotaging my business, but I have no interest working harder to fund a platform I vehemently disagree with either. Consider me on cruise control until the pendulum hopefully swings back toward free markets. I’m 53 years old and have been self employed my entire life, never taken an unemployment check. Why is it so alien a concept to you that I should resent being punished for having some ambition and working my butt of to fund some social engineering agenda that paints me as evil? By the way, “us” are the 58 million plus that didn’t drink the Kool Aid.

Mar 6, 2009 - 10:23 am 32. Herb:

Samizdat has the right idea…

“I am an extremely responsible citizen. I live within my means, volunteer in the local community and am part of a business that employs and health insures 15 people in well paying jobs.”

That’s how this recession will be defeated. Dropping out isn’t going to do it.

It didn’t bring about Timothy Leary’s utopia of psychedelia and it’s not going to bring about Ayn Rand’s utopia of objectivist triumph.

We can belly ache and hold signs and threaten to cheat on our taxes or move to Canada, but why? Those are the tactics of the left, and they’re no less puerile when co-opted by the right.

Mar 6, 2009 - 10:38 am 33. Herb:

Jaco,

“Why is it so alien a concept to you that I should resent being punished for having some ambition and working my butt of to fund some social engineering agenda that paints me as evil?”

No one is punishing you for having ambition. In fact, have ambition. Work hard! Don’t give up! Fight for every nickle! Succeed!

But don’t pretend you’re being “punished” by taxes. Euphemizing away a social obligation doesn’t make you more philosophically pure than anyone else.

The taxes successful people pay support the very system which allows them to succeed!

(PS, I’m not sure when this “free market” thing disappeared. The US government has backed some crappy loans, yes…what’s new, right? Bonds…T-Bills…you know, the whole lot. Safest investment on the planet, the US government. I mean, I went to work today at my private for-profit company, and I’m sure you did too. The free market is still rolling, albeit with a flat tire and a busted rim. But that happens in a free market from time to time. Too bad it has to ruin so many lives, though, huh?)

Mar 6, 2009 - 11:01 am 34. Samizdat:

Herb,
I think you may have misunderstood my point earlier. I am not willing yet to break the law and not pay taxes. I am willing to otherwise withdraw from discrertionary spending in this economy. I am willing to minimize current investment because any returns I might realize will be taxed more heavily by the new regime. Losing the Bush tax cuts is going to further damage the economy. What’s more 4.5 % or 5% of additional taxes taken by the government is a significant amount of money to me, although I guess not to you.Just remember this, it is my money that I earn through my effort and productivity, it is not the governments money. Am I interested in supporting a saftey net? Yes. Am I interested in supporting the siphoning of hard earned income from the productive to the unproductive? NO. Obama and the current majority in Congress believe that is their mandate. They are sweeping us rapidly towards socialism that has a proven track record of retarding individual choice, incentive and liberty. Our Constitution is at odds with their belief system. I say, enough! Let’s help tie this economy around their necks and sink them. It will take awhile and it will be painful, but the American people remember prosperity and will begin reassigning blame eventually.In the mean time, I will stop spending except where necessity requires. I trust there are many thousands more who are just as fed up as I am and will adopt a similar withholding. Take a look at my previous posting and extrapolate the negative impact on the economy if those who have the means refuse to spend. The socialists will be starved of the revenue they need and their ability to create growth from which they can further tax will be attrited. That’s my answer to their irresponsible and profligate ways.

Mar 6, 2009 - 12:43 pm 35. Herb:

Samizdat,
A few points:
“4.5 % or 5% of additional taxes taken by the government is a significant amount of money to me, although I guess not to you.”

Remember that this additional tax is only going to be applied if you make five times the median salary. A percentage point for every multiple?? That’s unreasonable? That’s socialist? Considering that we’re teetering on a global economic collapse, I don’t think that’s too much to ask for from our titans of industry.

(And really, if the Bush tax cuts expiring is going to have that dire of an effect on the economy, isn’t even more enraging that they were designed to expire?! A ticking time bomb scenario indeed!)

As to this: “Am I interested in supporting the siphoning of hard earned income from the productive to the unproductive? NO.”
If that were what Obama is intending to do here, then I would say you have a point. But I think you misunderstand the nature of what’s happening…

Private money is not greasing the wheels of industry anymore. (Thanks, John Galt!) As much as I’ve heard about this Disneyland-Las Vegas rail line, I haven’t heard either Bob Iger (head of Disney) or Steve Wynn (Las Vegas billionaire) propose to put a single cent into the plan. (And yeah, yeah, it’s a Harry Reid socialist boondoggle. Whatever. It’s only good for Harry Reid as long as it’s good for Las Vegas. And if it’s good for Las Vegas, they can put some money in it.)

So who’s going to pick up the slack? The private sector isn’t going to do it. Bank stocks are cheaper than Big Macs. GM is about to crumble. Unemployment is the worst in a generation. The Dow Jones is at a ten year low point.

And you have the gall to type: “The socialists will be starved of the revenue they need and their ability to create growth from which they can further tax will be attrited. That’s my answer to their irresponsible and profligate ways.”

What socialists? You mean the ones scrambling to save our free enterprise system by making it…well, solvent again? Oh, okay…

Mar 6, 2009 - 1:30 pm 36. Delia:

“26. Janet:

“Herb: your response makes it clear that you are a looter. By the way, I have an I.Q. of 156.”
~

BAHAHAHAHAHA! THAT was the funniest thing I’ve read all day from a libtard.

rotfl!

Mar 6, 2009 - 2:41 pm 37. Delia:

I meant Herb’s spastic response btw not Janet’s.

Mar 6, 2009 - 2:45 pm 38. Seerak:

Grow up, people.

I’ve never heard a whip crack sound quite like that before.

Mar 6, 2009 - 4:11 pm 39. Seerak:

Euphemizing away a social obligation doesn’t make you more philosophically pure than anyone else.

Euphemizing away theft as “taxation” doesn’t make you less of an apologist for thieves — philosophically or otherwise.

There is no such thing as an unchosen obligation, “social” or otherwise.

That’s how this recession will be defeated. Dropping out isn’t going to do it.

That’s not the point.

No one is punishing you for having ambition. In fact, have ambition. Work hard! Don’t give up! Fight for every nickle! Succeed!

CRACK!

Mar 6, 2009 - 4:34 pm 40. Jaco:

Herb wrote: “What socialists? You mean the ones scrambling to save our free enterprise system by making it…well, solvent again? Oh, okay…”

Yeah, the ones that presided over the subprime mortgage meltdown that precipitated the whole slide in the first place. Let’s connect some dots…Janet Reno strongarms mortgage lenders into subprime loans under the cloak of the Community Reinvestment Act. They respond by engineering ARM’s and derivitives. Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae CEO (and Obama economic advisor during his campaign)cooks the books during his tenure for $6 billion to trigger $90 million in bonuses for himself and rendering Fannie Mae insolvent. Makes Ken Lay’s Enron scandal look like a kid stealing a pack of cigarettes. Anyone but me curious why Raines isn’t in prison? Guess who’s on Fannie’s board of directors at the time? Rahm Emanuel and Jamie Gorelick, now prominent cabinet members. It’s the early part of W’s administration, and he tries NINE TIMES to get Chris Dodd and Barney Frank to head off the disaster by implementing some oversight via their heading up House and Senate Finance Comittees. Have you seen the CSPAN video of Dodd, Franks claiming everything is just fine, there’s no crisis coming? I have. Dodd gets a sweetheart, no interest mortgage from Countrywide, how nice. Barney’s boyfriend has a major gig at Freddie Mac, how adorable. Fast forward to today and they’re all posturing and claiming that the bankers responsible will have some ’splainin’ to do (note the omission of Senators and Congressmen). Then there’s the magnanimous claim by Obama that 95% of taxpayers will get a tax refund! But wait, the bottom 40% of wage earners don’t pay federal income tax. Sounds a lot like redistribution of wealth. So yeah, those socialists, the ones that caused the trainwreck to begin with.

Mar 6, 2009 - 4:50 pm 41. Samizdat:

Jaco and company,
As we converse Herb keeps exposing his belief in the righteousness of the oppressors to appropriate what is not theirs through the artifice of a crisis that the bufoons in Congress largely created.( Community Reinvestment Act, rewriting Fannie and Freddie’s charters, pushing for derivative bundleing and lax loan qualification standrds, or no favors for you. Thanks Barney and Chris) By the way Herb, the Republicans could have fixed this on their watch but didn’t; they are equally worthless.
The best thing we can do is unite and legally cause their suffocation through a coordinated capital strike. I talk not of picking up a gun, but of simply putting away my wallet. The ACORNITES are always hot to employ their strike tactics, lets see how good they are at playing defense. They certainly have little “skin” to put into the game, except for Soros and some of the hollywood types. When the economy fails to grow so that the lamprey can feed, the lamprey is in trouble. Meanwhile, I will have the money I have been saving to support productive people and those who are friendly towards them. Let the GE’s and the other fellow travelers pay for their complicity.It’s time to put the friends of the unproductive on a serious diet. The productive have the deep pockets and are in position to act if they will coordinate.

Mar 6, 2009 - 6:05 pm 42. Herb:

Seerak, “Euphemizing away theft as “taxation”” No, no, no. You’ve got it completely backwards. See, taxation is not theft. Theft is a crime. Taxes are a civic duty. Like I said before…and which doesn’t seem to sink in for some people…

“The taxes successful people pay support the very system which allows them to succeed!”

You want your low tax, small government utopia? It already exists. In Mogadishu. Funny how folks want all the rights and benefits of living in a democratic, free market system, but shirk at its responsibilities…like paying your taxes.

As for Jaco, who wrote: “Janet Reno strongarms mortgage lenders into subprime loans under the cloak of the Community Reinvestment Act.”

Please explain to me how the CRA, which was passed in 1977 (over thirty years ago!), was used by Janet Reno (over ten years ago!) to create the recession and subprime crisis of 2008. Wait, never mind…

That’s a bunch of talk radio nonsense. Swallow the Kool-aid much?

Yes, yes, Acorn, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, George Soros. They’ll all been secretly in control for three decades, quietly engineering the destruction of the free market system behind everyone’s backs, forcing people, banks, and corporations to do stupid things in the name of profit, ready to install the Muslim terrorist and turn us all into homosexual Code Pinkers.

Seriously, Jaco, I’m starting to believe that you’re part of the problem…

Certainly not part of the solution.

Mar 6, 2009 - 8:20 pm 43. David:

Herb,
You make the assumption that we want our country to succeed. While I think America is a great place and all, it’s just an idea that is shared among those who live here. When that idea becomes corrupt, failure becomes a good option for reform.

Case in point: the former USSR. They were so wedded to the idea of communism, the only way to reform things was to fall apart first.

Going Galt means withdrawing your support for the way things are going. Like the USSR, at some point, the money will run out for all the social engineering, the system will break down. Ideally, it will hasten the failure that many of us see as unavoidable, and likewise speed a recovery.

This type of “passive resistance” should have your blessing if you believe in freedom of choice and protest. Probably not though. Liberals frequently hold hypocritical viewpoints because consistency is much less important than how you feel about a given situation.

This country started with the Mayflower compact (”no workee no eatee”), and was refined by Adam Smith’s invisible hand (everyone helping each other as a byproduct of self interest). The nice thing about self-interest is that it is self sustaining. Socialism (and communism) are nice ideas. Really, they are, but unlike capitalism, they are self defeating.

Mar 7, 2009 - 1:17 am 44. David:

In the 1980’s Japan was going gangbusters. People were worried they would buy an American baseball team.

Then the roof fell in. Their bubble popped, and they started looking a lot like we do right now – A downward spiraling economy, and increasing unemployment.

The government’s solution was to prop up the failing companies that were key to the economy (especially banks). Because the refused to recognize the devaluation, they dribbled along for the next decade – hobbled by what we would now call “toxic assets”. This all happened despite the fact that their central bank held interest rates near zero in an effort to get the economy on it’s feet again.

Obama’s plan is eerily similar, and I suspect the results will be similar. Rather than take the pain of a “severe recession” (from which we historically recover in 18-36 months), he is causing it to be stretched out – ultimately doing more total harm than good. Think of it as a bandage that pulls your hair out when you remove it. You can either do is quick (with a bit more pain), or slow, but feel each follicle in turn.

The only good thing is, as long as the bandage is still in the process of being removed during the next election, he is likely to be relieved of his office. Ironically, the bill he signed to look good is likely to be what holds him back.

Mar 7, 2009 - 1:40 am 45. Herb:

David,

“You make the assumption that we want our country to succeed. While I think America is a great place and all, it’s just an idea that is shared among those who live here. When that idea becomes corrupt, failure becomes a good option for reform.”

I won’t call you unpatriotic for making that statement, although that would be an apt description.

Instead I’ll just say this: Many have bet against America in the past, and few have won.

What makes you think “withdrawing your support” for our economy is going to make you the exception?

Leave it to the liberal Huffington Post to put “going galt” into perspective:

“Well, since there’s going to be no lessening of the aggregate demand for heart surgery, dental work and litigation, that work will go to younger and smaller producers who will have the opportunity to absorb the unserved clients kicked loose from the Galtian financial Rapture, and those new businesses will have need of the employees that once worked for those mid-sized businesses. Plus, some of those people who used to work for these John Galts will probably be shrewd enough to open businesses of their own to take advantage on the coming upticks in golfing, poodling, yachtery and dilletantism.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/06/right-doubling-down-on-ay_n_172515.html

That’s right…withdraw and the invisible hand will gently scoot you out of the way and you’ll finally find the true meaning of “no workee no eatee.”

Also…you say that self-interest is self sustaining, but is praying for the failure of our free market, democratic system really in your self interest?

It’s not in mine.

Mar 7, 2009 - 4:03 am 46. Samizdat:

David,
Your post at 43 is a home run and the ball has not yet landed. That’s some very fine bat speed right there. Your analysis about the lost decade in Japan is also right on.
Someone show me a scenario where socialism has increased productivity and created more private sector employment and new private sector wealth. The only one I can think of off hand is WWII. There, our government spent billions on hard material buying everything from trucks to bandages. The industrial complex revived and people went back to work. GDP exploded, people saved and spent where they could due to rationing. There was a specific reason for the government to spend in large deficit at that time.
Those conditions don’t exist now.What FDR attempted in the 1930’s ended with greater job loss in 1938. Unemployment never got below 13% until the war. FDR spent the 1930’s strenghtening unions and going after the utilities. Even Keynes questioned him on his stradegy. Go read Amity Schlaes” Forgotten Man” if you think I am making this up.The Dems and President Obama are spending now to obtain a pernicious out come, if you believe in freedom, capitalism, free enterprise, the Constitution and liberty, as I do.
I am challenging some one to show me the great workers paradise. Even Sweden has substantially restricted the amount of GDP consumed by the government. Looking forward to your reply, Herb.

Mar 7, 2009 - 5:36 am 47. Herb:

Samizdat,

“Someone show me a scenario where socialism has increased productivity…”

Show me where we’re even close to socialism. So the government has a stake in failed banks. Good or bad, that stills falls a bit short from socialism. NASA wasn’t a problem for you? The Postal Service? Amtrak? Oh, I know, they’ve had their issues…but all three have been a part of our free market system for how long now? Decades.

Trust me on this. The banks don’t want to be owned by the government and the government doesn’t want to own the banks. (At least that’s what they say…and they may be lying, but I think we should take their word on this one.)

Tell me…are you really willing to forgo making 60 cents to deprive the government of 40? That’s neither rational nor self-interested. That’s foolish.

Mar 7, 2009 - 8:12 am 48. David:

Herb,
Quite correct. 40% ownership of Citibank is not even close to socialism. It’s at least 10% away. LOL.

It doesn’t matter that Citi doesn’t want to be owned and that the government doesn’t want to own it. The fact is they do. I’m sure neither party involved in an automobile accident do not want to be in that situation. Nevertheless, if you are sane, you have to see the twisted metal and broken glass for what it is.

I don’t think you don’t understand what “going Galt” means. In 2009, we can’t realistically march out into the wilderness and start building a society undetected. I have children. I don’t think I would be doing them any favors by forcing them to live the life of the Unibomber.

On the other hand, I have already successfully bet against the US for quite some time now. I sold all my real estate investments (apartments) to reduce my exposure to the economy. I used the money to pay off my house (which I built myself). I have reduced the taxes the government gets from me, to the minimum, and withdrawn my investment capital from the economy. I call it “deleveraging”.

You also assume, incorrectly, I am doing without. Ever heard of the barter system? More lessons from history – take a look at what the people did in Argentina after their economy collapsed. My standard of living has actually increased over the past two years. How about you?

I have not only stopped giving the government 40% of my income from that money, but I have stopped providing capital that could be used to create and maintain existing housing (my investments).

Does this hurt people? In a tiny way, yes. Is my life better. Yes.

That is naked self-interest. It is not a philosophy. It is a state of being. When the pendulum swings back, and it again becomes worthwhile for me to begin investing in real-estate (and helping others via the invisible hand), I will.

Mar 7, 2009 - 12:27 pm 49. Jaco:

Herb: “Yes, yes, Acorn, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, George Soros. They’ll all been secretly in control for three decades, quietly engineering the destruction of the free market system behind everyone’s backs, forcing people, banks, and corporations to do stupid things in the name of profit, ready to install the Muslim terrorist and turn us all into homosexual Code Pinkers.”

Well, seems the liberal mantra du jour is suddenly “Don’t let a crisis go to waste”. Funny, Thomas Sowell wrote a book over 10 years ago titled “Vision of The Annointed” about how liberal politicians manufacture crises to use as leverage in elections, with hundreds of examples from local, state and federal histories. Here are some Kool Aid samples for you…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/07/emanuel-tied-to-freddie-mac-collapse/

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/16/whose-policies-led-to-the-credit-crisis/

Mar 7, 2009 - 2:15 pm 50. Herb:

David, You act like the government taking on stakes in failing banks is part of some kind of nefarious plan to radically alter our way of life, but a fairer, less ideological person might see it for what it is: Desperate measures for desperate times. (Which can be debated on the merits without using the word “socialism” at all.)

As to this… “I have already successfully bet against the US for quite some time now,” I’m not sure the things you listed should count as “betting against the US.” You sold your real estate and paid off your house? You stopped investing? That’s not “betting against the US.” That’s using the American free market system to your advantage.

You should be thankful that in the US you can not only own private property but sell it too, and if you want to pull your money out of the market, you’re free to do that also.

What other socialist regime is going to let you own private property and make private investments??

Sorry, David, but you’re clearly still operating in a capitalist system, and your refusal to admit it (even to yourself) is quite funny.

Mar 7, 2009 - 2:20 pm 51. Jaco:

Ooops, forget the tastiest Kool Aid flavor of all. Look at who’s #1 and #2 on the Fannie Mae payola list:

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html

Mar 7, 2009 - 2:21 pm 52. David:

Herb,
“Desperate measures call for desperate times.” Hmmm. Sounds a lot like “ends justify the means thinking”. Maybe that’s not an issue for you, but it is for me.

You obviously have no idea what real desperation is. As I said, I’m living quite comfortably. Unemployment, inflation, interest rates are all below the levels we saw during the Carter era. What crisis? I’m not blind as to what’s going on, but this is not a crisis. By all economic definitions, this is still just a recession.

It certainly can get worse – and probably will. However, I believe that the market itself is the best solution to our problems. If we allowed a few failures to happen, the correction is quicker and cleaner. Yes there are problems (lots of defaults), but the people worst affected are the people and businesses who gambled on the bubble and lost.

In the meantime, the businesses that are going out of business are forced to sell their assets (mortgages) for pennies on the dollar. Other businesses that did not gamble, can afford to buy those assets and make a profit on them. Profits lead to more capital being made available, and presto, you are on your way to a recovery.

Instead, what we have is the government propping up entities who gambled and lost. The assets are maintained at prices that no one is willing to pay, and the propped up companies have little incentive to sell.

A market is where buyers and sellers agree on a price. But, if the buyer and seller can’t agree on a price, you get economic contraction. Instead of snapping back from a bad year or two, you get a malaise that lasts and lasts until you finally reach the point where the seller does capitulate.

The difference between the intervention/stimulus solution and letting the market correct itself is not so much how far down you go, but how long it takes to start turning around. I believe Obama’s heart is in the right place on trying to do what he can, but the actual impact of his help is hurting America by prolonging the pain.

Mar 8, 2009 - 1:56 am 53. Terry:

Herb: “I don’t think an extra 5 cents on the dollar is too much to ask.”

A civic duty for the ‘greater good,’ Herb? Awfully convenient to describe expiring tax reduction in terms that portray ‘evil’ Republicans in the role of designers of the expiration. (Similarly, Republicans do NOT get a pass for TARP that WAS designed to preclude judicial review.)

Herb: “Show me where we’re even close to socialism.”

AIG ring a bell Herb? 40% of Citibank isn’t socialized? If I wanted to buy AIG or Citibank, that option has always been available. Unfortunately, people like you are only too prevalent in today’s U.S. It can be expected that a dominant political group will desire socialist means to the end result of their undiminishable power. You speak as a pragmatist, but persist in denial.

Mar 8, 2009 - 6:23 am 54. therealist:

The country is at least half socialist. If you own a business, your Uncle Sam is a not-so-silent partner that contributes no capital, makes you file a ton of paperwork, gets half of the profits, and can wipe you out financially or put you in jail if they object to your transactions, marketing, hiring, etc. Many would-be entrepreneurs still don’t understand how the game is stacked against them. Once it becomes common knowledge how much easier it is to start and grow a business in, say, Hong Kong, Singapore, Panama, etc and then import products and services into the US, China, India, Brazil, and other large markets, entrepreneurship will simply cease to exist in this country.

Mar 8, 2009 - 1:38 pm 55. Paul:

Herb (29):

Oh, and Obama doesn’t have to raise taxes. He’s letting the Bush tax cuts expire. Which they were intended to do. By the people who passed them

Before people criticize Bush, I’d appreciate it if they verified their historical facts! Bush’s tax cuts weren’t permanent because Congress wouldn’t make them permanent. The President would much rather have made them so.

Mar 8, 2009 - 3:37 pm 56. Paul:

Herb (42): Once again, please check your historical facts. Jaco (40) is correct: Clinton and Reno forced banks to write mortgages to people otherwise unqualified for them in the name of helping home ownership in disadvantaged communities. The CRA was the legal leverage which they used. These loans and – more importantly the securities written on them – were principle in triggering the current financial crisis.

Mar 8, 2009 - 3:44 pm 57. Herb:

“52. David:

I believe Obama’s heart is in the right place on trying to do what he can, but the actual impact of his help is hurting America by prolonging the pain.”

No doubt your reservations are genuine, but I believe that if he did what his detractors want him to do, that too will prolong the pain.

Terry,

“A civic duty for the ‘greater good,’ Herb?”

No, a civic duty for your own good. We live in an interconnected world, a global marketplace from which you cannot extricate yourself. When the government starts taking your property and your money, then you can complain about “socialism.” If they’re just raising your taxes…vote harder next time.

therealist,

“your Uncle Sam is a not-so-silent partner that contributes no capital” Capital, no. Infrastructure, legal protection, and the very backing of your currency, yes. Don’t be naive.

55. Paul:

“Bush’s tax cuts weren’t permanent because Congress wouldn’t make them permanent. The President would much rather have made them so.” So what? Scott Norwood really wanted to kick that field goal in Superbowl 25 –I mean, he really wanted it– but he still missed wide right. In the real world, failure isn’t absolved by wishing you had succeeded.

As to this: “Clinton and Reno forced banks to write mortgages to people otherwise unqualified….” Yeah, I know. I’ve heard that one before.

The CRA of 77 was used by Clinton and Reno to ruin the lending industry, etc, etc. There’s a couple problems with that though. The Democrats, conveniently, are the bad guys. They wrote CRA. They supported it.

And yet, somehow it survived Reagan. It survived Bush. Both of ‘em.

It wasn’t a factor in the recessions of 1980-1982, or 1990-1991, or 2001…but somehow it caused the one we’re in now, in 2009, when (conveniently) another Democrat is in charge.

And let’s say it forced banks to make risky loans they didn’t want to, they sure embraced it all those years, didn’t they? They came up with all kinds of interesting loans, a whole menu of stuff they didn’t want to sell. ARMs, interest-only mortgages, reverse mortgages, all kinds of financial instruments they didn’t want to make money off of.

So yeah, I guess CRA really did cause the recession…or maybe not. Whatever it was, I know it was a Democrat!

Get real, man.

Mar 8, 2009 - 5:40 pm 58. Ms. Attitude:

I’ve read the comments and agree that Obama will make the economy worse. I also believed him when he said he wanted to spread the wealth.

Herb: Why do you think it’s fair that people who have worked smart and hard should have their wealth spread to those who are lazy and unambitious? You said that taxes were our civic duty…I agree, but for things such as defense and infrastructure not to spread the wealth!! Poor people cannot help poor people. Wealthy people have always helped the poor without the need for the government to force it. People rebel when their government forces them to do things that they were doing already.

Mar 8, 2009 - 7:16 pm 59. Herb:

“Herb: Why do you think it’s fair that people who have worked smart and hard should have their wealth spread to those who are lazy and unambitious?”

I don’t think that. And I don’t think that’s what’s happening. Why do you assume that everyone in the top tax bracket “have worked smart and hard?” And why do you assume that everyone who is poor is “lazy and unambitious?”

Does Bernie Madoff count? He’s wealthy. (And he has ideas about spreading the wealth, too…) Does millionaires Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann, George Soros, and Oprah count?

Is my Dad, who works two jobs and still only pulls in five figures, lazy and unambitious? Sorry if your overgeneralizations don’t impress me.

Mar 9, 2009 - 1:59 am 60. Ms. Attitude:

Does Bernie Madoff count? He’s wealthy. (And he has ideas about spreading the wealth, too…) Does millionaires Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann, George Soros, and Oprah count?

YES they do!

Is my Dad, who works two jobs and still only pulls in five figures, lazy and unambitious?

Your father isn’t a welfare recipient. I also pull in five figures and am not lazy and unabitous. But when it comes time to pay for all of this spending, your father and I will be the ones paying it!!

I wasn’t trying to impress you.

Mar 9, 2009 - 6:28 am 61. Addietwed:

To add a note to JACO, don’t forget that 58 million plus also only voted ONCE for the old guy and Sarah Palen. Unlike voting two or more times like the koolaid drinkers.

Mar 9, 2009 - 2:02 pm 62. mr. burns:

Herb,

Why conflate the country and it’s current leader ? If Obamas policies are ruinous and he needs our tax dollars to enact these policies then is paying more taxes good for the country ? I am betting against Obama and the dollar , they are both going to collapse . The dollar first because of Obamas’ policies and then Obama because of the dollars collapse.

Neither bet is against the United States . I hope we emerges from this depression a far a better country than we are now . After Socialism collapses here we will have a much easier time than the USSR did because all we have to do is return to the limited government, states rights, hard money country specified by the constitution .

You seem to be arguing that it is the capitalists duty to provide the rope that will be used to hang him.

Mar 9, 2009 - 4:43 pm 63. Herb:

“60. Ms. Attitude: I also pull in five figures and am not lazy and unabitous. But when it comes time to pay for all of this spending, your father and I will be the ones paying it!!”

Um…no. Your taxes won’t be going up. Why are you concerned about the next tax bracket? They certainly don’t care about you. Listen to them on here promise to cut their income so you don’t get a single cent of their tax dollars.

Mr Burns: “I am betting against Obama and the dollar , they are both going to collapse.”

If that’s true…then never claim to be a patriot.

As for this nonsense…”Neither bet is against the United States” Please. Obama is the president of the United States and the dollar is the currency of the United States. Yes, it’s a bet against the Unite States.

And you will lose.

Mar 11, 2009 - 4:48 am

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