Pajamas Media

60 Comments

1. David Thomson:

There is only one question I want answered: When will insurance companies be able to cross state lines and create their own policies to offer the general public—without government interference? This is totally illegal at the present moment in each and every state. This madness dramatically increases the cost of coverage. We should be able to purchase policies specifically geared to our own desires.

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:06 pm 2. PA BRED:

Finally we may be seeing some leadership coming from the Republicans. It is a breath of fresh air to fill that leadership vacuum demonstrated by the current presidential administration.

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:15 pm 3. NCBob:

The Republicans should be emphasizing that no plan that does not cover members of Congress and ALL federal employees will be acceptable to them or the American public.
It seems outrageous for the dems to be saying that health care for non-government workers is broken and that needs to be fixed but the government workers’ plan is fine the way it is. Wouldn’t the most logical answer be to change what we have to the plan that the government workers have?
Rhetorical question, of course, because the objective has nothing to do with health care but is the destruction of the middle class in America.

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:22 pm 4. "progressive"watch:

Barack Obama’s health care plan is another clear proof that he doesn’t care about health care or jobs but he cares about something that he never names. He long con-spiel that government is more efficient is simply his talking(in a correct usage of the word) stupidly.

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:25 pm 5. Rich Vail:

I have only a simple question to ask congress:

If HB 3200 is such a good bill for this country, WHY is/are Congress, the President, VP, and all federal employees specifically exempt from the provisions of this bill?

After all, if it is good enough for the rest of us, it SHOULD be good enough for you, your family, Congress, the President and all federal employees.

Richard A. Vail
Pikesville, MD

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:31 pm 6. billslayer:

Well I’m glad the republicans seem to be stirring slightly from the self imposed mire they are stuck in. I just hope they find their balls soon and begin to seriously take the fight to the Obamanistas.

Jul 23, 2009 - 2:38 pm 7. Professor Guvinoff:

The president has taken almost an hour of our time yesterday. He was defensive, untruthful, and his hollow arguments have finally been recognized for what they are. He made me feel like I was 5 years old again, and my mother was lecturing me.

Mow we can have a real, grown-up debate. What are the tangibles obstacles to affordable health care? They are simply the unnecessary costs we are mindlessly tolerating, lack of competition in the insurance business, unreasonable criteria for malpractice liability, and immigration control so loose that care is automatically given to illegal immigrants, on the basis of “just being here”, which is not legally defensible.

Between the distribution of benefits to those who break the rules and the unnecessary costs, it is quite reasonable to expect substantial improvements in health care affordability.

Let’s remember, the president was elected by the people, and is supposed to answer to the people. His plan is in trouble because he did not get this point. Now, an alienated electorate is in a position to retake control, if the republicans have the guts to carry out their duties of leadership, that is.

Jul 23, 2009 - 4:28 pm 8. noreen:

I am starting to breath a sigh of relief that this atrocity is tanking. When the congress goes on vacation the public will have more time to examine what is being proposed and reject it soundly. One thing our fearless leader neglects to mention is the role that the legal system plays in keeping costs up. His knowledge of the health care system is scary inadequate. Accusing doctors of yanking tonsils out of hapless children for greed and profit. He should be ashamed. I am proud to have worked in our helath care system for 30 years. No it is not perfect and there is the odd practitioner that may do things for greed and profit but the majority of us feel our job is a calling. It is intense, complicated and often times expensive proposition. Lots of Americans feel that cell phones and cable TV are more important household budget items than health insurance. The bottom line is that lawyers drive up the costs and make waste necessary for practitioners to cover their asses. Doctors are so fearful, and rightly so, of being sued they feel compelled to do and order things they know not to be necessary. C sections are a perfect example. Doctors cut first and ask questions later because nobody ever got sued for doing a C section but plenty have been sued for not doing a C section. 80% of waste in our system could be avoided with tort reform. Obama does not want to consider this because the bottom line is that this is not even remotely about health care. It is about power, control, subjugation of the American people and the destruction and redistribution of wealth.

Jul 23, 2009 - 4:45 pm 9. annie:

Oh, the bill hasn’t gone away. Some of the provisons that we have heard mentioned will be Obama’s way of giving “REPARATIONS”…without being labeled “REPARATIONS”…agressive “affirmative action” in med schools etc.. He’s not really stupid, he’s a socialist, plus he has gotta pay back his “dues”..

I agree, with #3 and #5. Someone really needs to explain this aspect to the American public.

Are we so dumb that we aren’t asking this at every turn?????

Jul 23, 2009 - 5:16 pm 10. Rick:

8. noreen.

this is not over by a long shot. there will be health care reform. they will keep nibbling around the edges until there is something that passes……. and like the thin end of the wedge, it is all that is needed to place the government in charge.

my view is that the plan is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. yes, there needs to be something done for people with pre-existing conditions and the ability of the insurance companies to cancel the policy of a person who gets sick is flat out wrong. in addition, the working poor need something, not really sure what. but there is NO NEED for this huge program.

but there is much more at stake. currently the government in all it’s forms, accounts for about 30% of GDP. if tax and trade, and obama care pass, we will be at 45% government controlled GDP, or in other words, solidly socialist……….france is 42%, germany 46%. the country will never be the same, ever. the government will become everywhere, every day, every individual decision carefully monitored.

Jul 23, 2009 - 5:17 pm 11. Rick:

8. noreen.

this is not over by a long shot. there will be health care reform. they will keep nibbling around the edges until there is something that passes……. and like the thin end of the wedge, it is all that is needed to place the government in charge.

my view is that the plan is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. yes, there needs to be something done for people with pre-existing conditions and the ability of the insurance companies to cancel the policy of a person who gets sick is flat out wrong. in addition, the working poor need something, not really sure what. but there is NO NEED for this huge program.

Jul 23, 2009 - 5:18 pm 12. annie:

I agree,

If it’s good enough for general America why not Congress and gov employees? WHY???? are people not talking about this fact?????

Also, the bill/plan is NOT dead, far from it. As we have listened to parts we hear a lot of what sounds like “REPARARTIONS” . Preferance for hospitals, med schools etc that will cater to minorities. That is a form of “REPARATIONS” as far as I can tell. Obama is agasint “REPARATIONS” yet he’s for putting a minority ahead of anyone else. If a minority is better qualified than a “whitey”, okay, otherwise they must go on merit.

the bill is not dead, and it’s going to contain so much b.s. we will have a difficult time knowing what we are doing.

It’s all about the destruction of America.

Jul 23, 2009 - 6:02 pm 13. Sherab Zangpo:

What ? Are we really not going to allow the government to ration our health care and to decide who deserves to live and who deserves to die ? Are we crazy ?
If we keep going like that… we will get into… nightmares like Freedom and Liberty !
Some wingnut will even write a Declaration saying that Freedom is God’s gift to the human beings !

Shame on us, Free People !

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Jul 23, 2009 - 6:09 pm 14. annie:

okay, I post, come back later, it’s gone…so i repost trying to say what i said before..and the other post pops up..IS THIS MAGIC????

Jul 23, 2009 - 7:21 pm 15. David W. Lincoln:

To echo David Thomson’s point #1, not everyone buys a Bentley. Some park money at a dealer to buy
a Chevy Cheyenne. So, why in blazes should people pay for what they don’t want when singing up. Then, later on if they want something they didn’t sign up for, then they can pay more for it. Not before.

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:03 pm 16. Phil:

So, I read the article and then skimmed, but couldn’t find details of what alternatives the GOP is proposing. Have they revealed that? The headline made me think I’d find something about it, but most of the article seemed to talk about the gal from Canada.

Ooo! New attack point: if we socialize our healthcare, where will the rest of the world go for lifesaving treatments? Therefore, Dems don’t care about people in other countries!

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:39 pm 17. Phil:

Oh, and I agree that Congress should be subject (forced) into the same public system that the rest of us have. I’d like to see most laws changed to where Congress is subject to the same labor rules/regulations as the rest of us.

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:42 pm 18. arhooley:

5. Rich Vail: WHY is/are Congress, the President, VP, and all federal employees specifically exempt from the provisions of this bill

I was aware that the bill does not *require* federal employees to take the public option, but it specifically exempts them? Yikes.

And my goodness, such cynicism here, such foreboding and dread! You’d think the Dems had made a giant step forward today, but lurk around a couple of lefty websites, and behold the anger and gloom. If Republicans in government and ordinary joes across the country can deny the Won his deadline, why not take heart? This is also a war of nerves, and it doesn’t help if the other side sees us quaking and dreading the dawn.

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:47 pm 19. materialist:

They all say the French healthcare system is the one we should emulate. I don’t know. I don’t claim to understand it. But I do have a good friend (an occasionally chauvinistic European) who retired to France – to a magnificent home with a superlative view over a fabulous beach on the Meditteranean. He is now coming back to the good old USA. Though he has full access to the French healthcare system, he has been diagnosed with a serious brain problem. So, faced with a real medical issue, he is heading back to the only place on God’s green earth where he has confidence in the medical profession.

After Obamacare, where will we go? May we hope the good doctors will migrate to small Carribean islands and establish “Mayo Clinics” there?

If they do, how long before the Democrats set travel embargoes on those islands?

Jul 23, 2009 - 8:47 pm 20. Strawman:

PJ’s backend code has some serious issues. The whole site seems to lock up every evening. They very rarely toss comments, but they frequently go to purgatory.

Jul 23, 2009 - 9:17 pm 21. John K:

The Reps need to set up some major media events with disgruntled Canadians (I’m one but don’t have a sad luck personal story to tell… yet). Holmes was in Ontario but here in Quebec it’s even more mismanaged. Nothing worse than a well run monopoly is a poorly run monopoly.

Forget the he said she said debate about Canadian health care. Want concrete proof it sucks? Go here: http://www.acurehealth.com/default.aspx

Yup, in Canada the situation is bad enough that there is a market for “Waiting List Insurance” to cover the cost of going south for treatment!

So, when y’all get Obama Care, not to worry. Perhaps you too will be able to buy waiting list insurance to pay for treatment in the US. Oh wait…

Jul 23, 2009 - 9:21 pm 22. John K:

Meant to say “The only thing worse…”

Jul 23, 2009 - 9:22 pm 23. SukieTawdry:

David Thomson: There is only one question I want answered: When will insurance companies be able to cross state lines and create their own policies to offer the general public—without government interference?

All private insurance policies will have to be in compliance with the law. I imagine the law as promulgated will be detailed and specific and private plans will end up being cookie-cutter versions of the public “option” (so what’s the point, which is exactly the point). Won’t matter if they can cross state lines.

The first thing I ever read about Canada’s system was a piece written years ago by an orthopedic surgeon. His biggest complaint was that he was allotted only 1.5 hours/week in the operating room. He said he couldn’t do most of his surgeries in an hour and a half. He wondered what the heck Health Services expected a surgeon to do if he couldn’t actually perform surgery. I think it’s safe to say he held the system in real contempt.

Over at Kos the other day, a Canadian was bragging about how he only had to wait seven months to have his diseased kidney removed (he did say that had his condition become critical, he would have been bumped up to emergency status and that it was only right that more acute conditions took preference over his). Most important to him–the thing he was most proud of–was that the whole thing (doctors, surgery, hospital, tests, etc) ended up costing him only $18 (IIRC) out-of-pocket. He told further about getting disability payments the whole time he had to wait and that he would continue to get them while he recovered. He just couldn’t have been more pleased about the whole thing and the KosKids were swooning. This is the mindset we’re up against.

Jul 23, 2009 - 9:46 pm 24. Blacque Jacques Shellacque:

IS THIS MAGIC???

“You can do magic, you can have anything that you desire….”

– America

Jul 23, 2009 - 10:19 pm 25. AST:

All I know is that when I go to my rheumatologist he’s looking worn out. He looks like the weight of the world is on his shoulders. He’s working at the Emergency Room as a second job. I certainly don’t begrudge him his fees. I’m indebted to him for keeping me in fit shape to work until I was 58, and I hate the idea of shafting people like him because the trial lawyers and insurance companies have made it so expensive for him to operate.

Jul 23, 2009 - 10:23 pm 26. vivo:

I don’t know how many people have read some of the 1,108 pages of the healthcare plan. It’s not difficult to read, but it’s overloaded with legislative procedures and, obviously, very long for public consumption. Everything you need to know is there, but it would be nice if someone would condense all the important points. It shouldn’t be difficult to do by someone with a legal and communications background.

Lots of improvements to our current health care situation! But, please, somebody summarize it.

Jul 23, 2009 - 10:49 pm 27. mad-as-H:

RE: OBAMAKARE
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE:
CALL OR FAX THE FOLLOWING:

Montana – Baucus and Tester
Senator Max Baucus / (202) 224-2651(Office) (202) 224-9412 (Fax)
Senator Jon Tester / Phone: (202) 224-2644 Fax: (202) 224-8594
North Dakota – Dorgan and Conrad
Senator Byron Dorgan Phone: (202) 224-2644 Fax: (202) 224-8594
Senator Kent Conrad Phone: (202) 224-2043 Fax: (202) 224-7776
South Dakota – Senator Tim Johnson Phone (202) 224-5842 Fax: 202-228-5765
Nebraska – Senator Ben Nelson Phone: 202-224-6551 Fax: 402-391-4725
Arkansas – Senator Mark Pryor Phone: (202) 224-2353. Fax: (202) 228-0908
Senator Blanche Lincoln Phone: 202-224-4843 Fax: 202-228-1371
Louisiana – Senator Mary Landrieu Phone: 202-224-5824 Fax: 202-224-9735
North Carolina – Senator Kay Hagan Phone: 202-224-6342. Fax: 202-228-2563
Indiana – Senator Evan Bayh Phone: 202-224-5623 Fax: 202-228-1377
Connecticut – Senator Joe Lieberman Phone: 202-224-4041. Fax: 202-224-9750
Maine – Senator Olympia Snow Phone: Toll Free: 800-432-1599. Fax: 207-622-7295
Senator Susan Collins Phone: 207-945-0417. Fax: 207-990-4604
Kathleen Sebilius – Sec. HHS: Phone: 800-223-8164. Fax: 202-690-7203

Jul 23, 2009 - 10:51 pm 28. rk:

the RNC really needs to run a series of ads over the next couple of months.

what will they do about healthcare cost inflation?

what will they do about catasrophic event coverage?

what will they do for the “45 million”

I think they have the ideas…now is the time to advertise them. Obama is a one-trick pony, all government all the time.

spend all the $$ you have RNC…if he gets the public option the RNC may wind up to be a rump party.

Jul 23, 2009 - 10:52 pm 29. Dero:

Is is it just me or was there zero alternatives mentioned in this entire article?

Jul 23, 2009 - 11:26 pm 30. RAP:

8 noreen
You are quite right. Obama’s personal physican of 22 years a Dr. Steiner appeared on TV a couple of days ago and said that fear of lawsuits was the biggest reason health care costs are so much higher in the U.S. than other countries. I wouldn’t expect the Demos to do much about it though. Next to Wall Street the Trial Lawyers give the Demos the most money. There will be no tort reform in the health care bill. I think the ultimate solution to high costs is the same as for clothing, autos, etc. i.e. foreign competition. Some insurers are already offering lower cost policies if you agree to have major surgery overseas. It’s safer too.

Jul 24, 2009 - 12:25 am 31. Mary Grabar:

Yes, good for now. But we need to remain ever vigilant. You never know what they’ll cook up during the recess.

Jul 24, 2009 - 4:11 am 32. BHL073:

French Health system – got into a heated discussion with a someone who has dual French & US citizenship. She railed about how great the French ins sys is and how bad the US ins sys is. How she could be treated for free in France and has a $8000 debit for her cancer treatment here. When asked why she didn’t get treated in France for free she gave a non answer about staying with family. She did say that France takes 10% tax on ALL household income for health care. That’s more than we pay for Social Seurity.

Jul 24, 2009 - 6:20 am 33. Steve:

The Republicans need to put forward a real healthcare plan of their own that holds down costs. It’s not enough to just say they are against importing the Canadian system.

Whatever problems people have with Barack Obama or a single-payer system, I would hope we are responsible enough to understand that a healthcare system that consumes 16% of GDP, doesnt provide anything near universal coverage and where expenses are growing well in excess of inflation is not something that can be sustained in the future.

Jul 24, 2009 - 6:37 am 34. gil58:

How about the New york Times .THE washington Post Washington Times Wall street journal,post a few pages of this bill iin their papers every day so that the American people have the facts? Or post the whole thiong on the internet.

Jul 24, 2009 - 7:12 am 35. Percy Dovetonsils:

“May we hope the good doctors will migrate to small Carribean (sic) islands and establish ‘Mayo Clinics’ there?”

Perhaps Cuba will start sending their famed doctors here.

Jul 24, 2009 - 7:14 am 36. Alex:

Any plan the Republicans put out needs to have tort reform as a keystone to the legislation. I say this as a lawyer. CYA tests (although doctors claim they don’t practice “defensive medicine”) and idiotic payouts have killed innovation and made health care that much more expensive.

Jul 24, 2009 - 7:59 am 37. Mike W.:

I could understand the Republicans’ opposition to the plan if they had offered an alternative. But they didn’t offer one, just like they didn’t offer a comprehensive alternative to the Recovery Act. Instead, they posture and obstruct, somehow hoping that they will ingratiate themselves with voters by simply sitting on the sidelines and throwing beer cans at the players on the field. The GOP is truly stupid and lost if it believes that it can win anything by simply being the pouty baby in this debate. Offer an alternative plan, or shut up and get out of the way.

Jul 24, 2009 - 8:36 am 38. urbanleftbehind:

#19 and #35

Nope, once, Obamacare sets in, the Narcos of Mexico will begin their path to universal redemption, divest from petty trafficking, and invest in world-class, for profit health care facilities. Their doctors have to get it right, or else!!!!

Jul 24, 2009 - 8:46 am 39. arhooley:

#37 Mike W: “they didn’t offer a comprehensive alternative to the Recovery Act.”

They did: Let the free market take its natural course, even if it meant bankruptcies. And none of that would have been necessary in the first place if the Community Reinvestment Act hadn’t forced banks to make loans to bad prospects.

Mike W, you don’t seem to understand any “solution” that doesn’t come from the government. Sometimes the solution is for the government to get out of the way. I don’t think you’ll ever get that.

Jul 24, 2009 - 10:24 am 40. Boyd:

“The Republicans should be emphasizing that no plan that does not cover members of Congress and ALL federal employees will be acceptable to them or the American public.”

My Congressman, Dean Heller, submitted an amendment to the proposed health care legislation (HR 3200) in the House exactly to that effect. As he said, “what better way to monitor a government-run healthcare system than to make federal officials participate in the plan.” Not surprisingly, it was voted down 21 to 18 on a partyline vote. Bitter and cynical? Hey, not me. No, not at all.

Jul 24, 2009 - 10:45 am 41. Mike W.:

39. arhooley: “They did: Let the free market take its natural course, even if it meant bankruptcies. And none of that would have been necessary in the first place if the Community Reinvestment Act hadn’t forced banks to make loans to bad prospects.”

That’s exactly my point, genius. The GOP’s “plan”, after 8 years of ruining the economy, was to just do nothing and “let the market correct itself”. Why the **** do you think we voted the GOP out? Maybe it was because their proposed solution to the crisis they created was to sit around with their thumbs up their behinds and watch America burn?

Also, the fact that you think the CRA is wholly to blame for the crisis shows your ignorance on the subject. The CRA was only a very small piece of the house of cards. By assigning blame to the CRA for a global crisis without any mention of Wall Street and specifically hedge funds, its obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

“Mike W, you don’t seem to understand any “solution” that doesn’t come from the government. Sometimes the solution is for the government to get out of the way. I don’t think you’ll ever get that.”

Yeah, and look how awesome the health insurance industry functions when government “gets out of the way!”

The only thing stupider than a laissez-faire Ayn Rand capitalist is one who refuses to believe that his economic philosophy is bull****, even after it leads to 2 great depressions in less than 100 years.

Jul 24, 2009 - 11:16 am 42. MJ:

THE HEALTHCARE PLAN IN ITS CURRENT FORM IS NTO GOOD AT ALL. THE BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN WANTING TO SLOW DOWN AND GET IT RIGHT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THIS WOULD BE GREAT IF THE PLAN WERE ACTUALLY TO HELP THE PEOPLE. IT IS NOT IT IS ABOUT POWER AND MAKING AMERICANS MORE DEPENDENT ON GOVERNMENT AND GROWING GOVERNMENT CONTROL IN OUR LIVES.

Jul 24, 2009 - 12:30 pm 43. epb:

There is no healthcare crisis in America! But, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Witness the saying before our very eyes! It’s no longer about America; it’s all about The (Dem) Party!!! Stalin would be proud of Rahm & Obama’s bold and decisive moves befitting a totalitarian regime!

With news of Rahm now forcing & foisting the issue — the debacle that healthcare trans-/de-/reform will be, only the extent being unknown — Republicans might consider just not even showing up: a publicity stunt to show that their presence is not required, their vote meaningless. The Dems are refusing to listen: no debate will be tolerated! Although not technically on the “record”, their stance will be clear: they will not participation is this raw and abusive display of political power that resembles more a Banana Republic as it goes contrary to the consent of the governed! Perhaps if a few Democrats don’t show up either, then the lack of a quorum will stop the House from proceding!

Funny how the Dems good intentions will end up causing untold suffering, flat-line American freedom and kill middle America.

Jul 24, 2009 - 1:08 pm 44. jharp:

“Shona Holmes, a Canadian who had to travel to the U.S. to get a life-saving and sight-saving diagnosis of a brain tumor”

This is another Joe The pulmber moment for the GOP. Their claims about Shona Holmes are lies.

From the Mayo Clinics website.

“Dr. Naresh Patel, neurosurgeon, diagnosed Holmes as having a Rathke’s cleft cyst (RCC). The rare, fluid-filled sac grows near the pituitary gland at the base of the brain and eventually can cause hormone and vision problems.”

“Rathke’s Cleft Cysts are not true tumors or neoplasms; instead they are benign cysts. Rathke’s pouch forms as part of normal development and eventually forms the anterior lobe, pars intermedia and pars tuberalis, of the pituitary gland. This pouch normally closes in fetal development, but a remnant often persists as a cleft that lies between the anterior and posterior lobes of the pituitary gland. Occasionally, this remnant enlarges to form a cyst. RCCs can cause pituitary failure, headaches and in some instances, vision loss.”

“Mortality associated with RCCs is extremely rare. In a study conducted by Shin and colleagues, the mortality rate was 0%, and the recurrence rate was 19%.2 In the literature, recurrence rates typically are lower, commonly 5-10%; however, Mukherjee co-authors reported a recurrence rate of 33%.3″

“Shin’s study reported the cumulative rates of recurrence-free survival to be 85% at 5 years, 81% at 10 years, and 81% at 20 years.”

So, let’s sum up. Holmes didn’t have a brain tumor She didn’t even have cancer. And her condition wasn’t deadly. The Canadian health system hadn’t given her a death sentence, as she, her American handlers and the GOP are suggesting — which means that Holmes’s story, is, to use the precise term of art, utter nonsense.

Jul 24, 2009 - 1:51 pm 45. jharp:

“GOP Touts Alternatives to ObamaCare”

Hmmmm. Just as I thought.

Not one suggestion or proposal from the GOP. Not one. Just bash Obama. And you wonder why you lose elections and only 20% of American’s are republicans.

Jul 24, 2009 - 2:13 pm 46. Mark in flyover country:

jharp@44

You’re cherry picking the article. That’s probably why you didn’t provide a link. Here’s the story: http://www.mayoclinic.org/patientstories/story-339.html.

According to the article she was diagnosed in Canada with a brain tumor. The diagnosis was wrong. It likely wasn’t fatal but she was losing her vision. She found a great doctor at the Mayo clinic who correctly diagnosed the problem, thought it was possible she could go blind. Surgery there corrected it. Which means the story is NOT utter nonsense as you posit. BTW what does Joe the plumber have to do with it?

Jul 24, 2009 - 4:11 pm 47. jharp:

“Mark in flyover country:

Which means the story is NOT utter nonsense as you posit. BTW what does Joe the plumber have to do with it?”

That is not the article I quoted. The article I cited has been taken down but the quotes are accurate.

And the republican’s are lying about Shona Holmes just like they lied about Joe The Plumber.

The GOP claim is utter nonsense.

Jul 24, 2009 - 6:10 pm 48. ltw:

Hmmm, jharp, she was losing her vision and they had already diagnosed her with a brain tumour. Fine, it turned out to be something else (they were still worried about permanent sight loss though), but just how long would you want to wait for an operation under those circumstances? How are you going to work in the meantime? Get back into the workforce after 6 months on disability? It seems to me the GOP’s point is fair.

Jul 24, 2009 - 9:50 pm 49. Romo:

Where I live in the UK we have the National Health Service. It employs the largest amount in the public sector – over 1.3 million people. Think of it.

Everything is predicated on targets but that doesn’t mean that everyone will get what they need medically. We have a service that is post-coded so that if you live in one part of the country where X drug is given freely on the NHS, it doesn’t mean that it will be given somewhere else. Has to be ‘cost effective,’ you see. Additionally, certain medications will not be prescribed by doctors if again they are considered to be too expensive. So it means that you can literally die if your doctor decides not to prescribe it.

There is a lack of MRIs and CT scanners. There is an acute (or even chronic) lack of intensive care beds. Nursing staff (believe it or not) is in short supply and we have to employ nurses from as far away as the Philippines and Africa. Indeed, we have employed so many nurses from Zimbabwe that there is a chronic shortage there.

Our system is ‘free at the point of access’ which means that every illegal immigrant and asylum seeker can use it. We also have medical tourists who come here for their medical treatment, notwithstanding that it’s pretty much on a third-world standard in many departments.

You can wait six months to a year for results of tests; you may not get the cancer treatment you need; you will not be offered expensive treatment if your GP or hospital doctor doesn’t think it necessary to further investigate a problem; a pap smear can take over three months to come through, yet we offer IVF and transgender operations on the NHS for free.

Personal friends of mine, consultants in my local NHS hospital, talk of their fury of the form filling and mind-numbing boxes that they have to tick instead of treating their patients.

My son, delirious in an infectious diseases ward, took himself off the ward with catheter in his arm and various electrodes attached. He wandered back there in the afternoon and they refused to have him back saying that he had discharged himself!

Is this what you want in the US? It doesn’t work! We do have private health insurance that will cover you by choice but is very expensive and not everyone can afford it. Will you have that provision?

Your new socialist (and, to my horror, deeply racist) president, doesn’t appear to know what he is doing. By pushing this bill through, with all its attendant problems, seems to me to be callous beyond compare.

Jul 25, 2009 - 2:43 am 50. kazooskibum:

The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise.

Jul 25, 2009 - 6:23 am 51. kentuckyliz:

Comparing Shona Holmes to Joe the Plumber–does that mean Democratic party opposition research operatives will scour her private records and do their best to crucify a private citizen?

I call bullshit on jharp. I guess it’s okay to go blind on a waiting list. Maybe for you buddy, but not for me and mine.

I have already had my life saved by being an American in America receiving prompt, high-quality American health care…and I pay far less than Canadians and Brits, when you compare their taxes and co-pays to my insurance premiums and co-pays. And I am a refugee from the People’s Republik of Kanada and still have friends there…and my parents are immigrants from England and my extended family there includes a lot of doctors including a research oncologist and a world-class epidemiologist with an OBE. They tell me I’m “lucky” to have got the treatment I did, because UKNHS/NICE denies it.

So I call a vigorous bullshit flag on the play penalty on jharp. If you think those systems are so great, go live there and leave us freedom loving Americans alone.

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:02 am 52. jharp:

Finally found it. Here, then, is the Republican 10-Point Plan for Health Care:

1. 50 Million Uninsured in America
2. Another 25 Million Underinsured
3. Employer-Based Coverage Plummets Below 60%
4. Employer Health Costs to Jump by 9% in 2010
5. One in Five Americans Forced to Postpone Care
6. 62% of U.S. Bankruptcies Involve Medical Bills
7. Current Health Care Costs Already Fueling Job Losses
8. 94% of Health Insurance Markets in U.S Now “Highly Concentrated”
9. Dramatic Decline in Emergency Room Capacity
10. Perpetuating Red State Health Care Failure

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:10 am 53. jharp:

kentuckyliz:

“If you think those systems are so great, go live there and leave us freedom loving Americans alone.”

Always get a kick out wingnut ignorance.

Newsflash! I’ve got every right to voice my opinion and do everything I can to get America’s health care system costs in line with the rest of the world.

That’s just the way it is.

And if you don’t like it, YOU can leave.

Why do you hate the bill of rights?

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:50 am 54. jharp:

“Comparing Shona Holmes to Joe the Plumber–does that mean Democratic party opposition research operatives will scour her private records and do their best to crucify a private citizen?”

Joe The Plumber = Joe Not The Plumber + Joe Gets Tax Cuts Under Obama (completely contradictory to the GOP claims)

Shona Holmes = Shona Not The Cancer Patient + Shona doesn’t have a tumor(completely contradictory to the GOP claims)

Can’t you see the similarities. Now I’ll openly admit that I don’t know if it is Shona who lied or her GOP handlers.

I’m all in it is the GOP who lied. I don’t think many people are so low that they’d lie about cancer. But the GOP is clearly that low. Hell, they lied to start a war.

Jul 25, 2009 - 8:59 am 55. ltw:

I agree jharp this is exactly like Joe the Plumber – you’re going to picking on technicalities to discredit her story without addressing the actual issue. You still haven’t answered my question about how long you’d like to wait for an operation while going blind – and in fact looking again the waiting list was just to see a specialist, not necessarily for something to be done about it. And drop the was or wasn’t a tumor bullshit, diseases don’t fall into the “tumor life-threatening, everything else ok” category you seem to think – cancer is not the only thing that kills people.

Notice too that it was the Canadian medical system that diagnosed a tumor, so let’s add misdiagnosis to the list of failures. Of course that was just a preliminary diagnosis which I’m sure would have been corrected when she saw a specialist and had more tests – in several months and after going completely blind.

So you going to answer any of that or is pinning another lie on your political opposition more important?

Jul 25, 2009 - 7:18 pm 56. Michael:

jharp, get a clue. When you start to stretch the truth this much it gets very thin. Shona Holmes would probably have gone blind with Canadian care. The great conspiracy didn’t change the facts, HufPuf just screwed the pouch and got caught.

Don’t through the “lie” tag around. The Democrats have been caught far too often to get any traction throwing that around.

The government it the problem. The two things that need fixing are:

1 – Tort reform (any system that requires someone to pay 6 figure premiums per year is broken)

2 – Allow private sector insurance companies to spread their coverage across state lines (thus spredding the cost across more people lowering the liability to each)

MINOR regulation changes to insurance regulations will take care of the rest.

If we spike the “Recovery” bills and get back our trillion dollars we will be very able to cover any costs to those who don’t have health care. Not free though. Anything free is abused.

And while we are at it lets stop calling the Recovery bills what they are, the EVERY PET DEMOCRATIC PROJECT NOT PASSED IN THE LAST 20 YEARS bill.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:54 am 57. Michael:

“lets start” neede caffien.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:57 am 58. Increase Mather:

Where is the “watchdog” media? Why aren’t they going through this bill, word by word?

Do we have a free, unbiased media anymore?

Jul 27, 2009 - 10:17 am 59. Linda Rivera:

U.S. HEALTHCARE: CUT YOUR LIFE SHORT
Obama promised HOPE and CHANGE. The media never asked what frightening changes Obama planned for Americans.

WORLDNETDAILY.COM
July 22, 2009
Obamacare for old folks: Just ‘cut your life short’
Health plan provision demands ‘end-of-life’ counseling

By Bob Unruh

The version of President Obama’s universal health care plan pending in the U.S. House would require “end-of-life” counseling for senior citizens, and the former lieutenant governor for the state of New York is warning people to “protect their parents” from the measure.

At issue is section 1233 of the legislative proposal that deals with a government requirement for an “Advance Care Planning Consultation.”

Betsy McCaughey, the former New York state officer, told former president candidate Fred Thompson during an interview on his radio program the “consultation” is no more or less than an attempt to convince seniors to die.

“One of the most shocking things is page 425, where the Congress would make it mandatory absolutely that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session,” she said. “They will tell [them] how to end their life sooner.”

McCaughey also said the Obama administration is suggesting that medical care be withheld from seniors based on the expected years they have left to live.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=104719

Obama’s Civilian National Security Force
Obama promised change. The End of America as we know it:

Obama: “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y

PRAVDA: America’s Descent into Marxism – Brief Video
http://www.solutionsfromscience.com/

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:11 pm 60. Dr. Bukk:

The republicans are missing one GIANT way to save on health care. Make hundreds of safe Rx drugs available over-the-counter. I personally saved $2.3 million dollars when Monistat went OTC.

OK, just a slight exaggeration. Yesterday, I spent 3 hours just to get some simple cortisone ear drops. Why can’t we have the same freedoms that Mexicans have?

Jul 28, 2009 - 2:10 pm

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