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	<title>Comments on: Health Care Reform vs. Universal Health Care</title>
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		<title>By: Laz</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-355905</link>
		<dc:creator>Laz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-355905</guid>
		<description>Look, in Europe and Canada they have primary care physicians who know you and progress with you from birth to as long as they practice in the area.  Not only that all information is electronically entered so that anywhere that information is available.  If Michael Jackson tried to have 4 doctors, sure he goes to four doctors. No problem, but then he tries to get four doctors to prescribe drugs, they see that he is prescribed already and deny him the drugs.  That is called efficiency, It ould have saved Michael and if it&#039;s not changed thousand are going to die</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, in Europe and Canada they have primary care physicians who know you and progress with you from birth to as long as they practice in the area.  Not only that all information is electronically entered so that anywhere that information is available.  If Michael Jackson tried to have 4 doctors, sure he goes to four doctors. No problem, but then he tries to get four doctors to prescribe drugs, they see that he is prescribed already and deny him the drugs.  That is called efficiency, It ould have saved Michael and if it&#8217;s not changed thousand are going to die</p>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-259292</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 20:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-259292</guid>
		<description>114. Mary: &quot;The more I read the angrier I become, everyone talks about the costs, the costs, the costs, the costs.
What is money anyway except a man made invention.
What is health and caring for your fellow man? It is what we can do to be good citizens of this earth. So many of these comments are shocking, totally without any feeling, compassion for or understanding for the brotherhood of people.&quot;

Mary, yes, money is a man-made invention as are most other things of value on this earth.  Money is a medium of exchange that holds and represents the value of products and services that can be purchased with it.

When you ask what money is, you are implying that its value is not real, that it is unimportant and can be squandered without real consequences.  But squandering money is the equivalent of squandering the goods and services that it represents.  And, since goods and services are produced through the effort of the people that produce them, you&#039;re saying that it is ok to squander that effort.  And, since people&#039;s lives depend upon the exertion of productive effort, you&#039;re saying that it is ok to squander people&#039;s lives.

It is the thinking of people like you that has caused all of the suffering in history.  Contrary to the image you attempt to project, you are not putting a high value on life, you are, instead, putting a very low value on human life.  By saying that people should be forced to provide for other people, you are treating the lives of the providers as worthless.  Rather than being lauded for your compassion, you should be condemned for your heartless disregard for the lives and liberties of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>114. Mary: &#8220;The more I read the angrier I become, everyone talks about the costs, the costs, the costs, the costs.<br />
What is money anyway except a man made invention.<br />
What is health and caring for your fellow man? It is what we can do to be good citizens of this earth. So many of these comments are shocking, totally without any feeling, compassion for or understanding for the brotherhood of people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mary, yes, money is a man-made invention as are most other things of value on this earth.  Money is a medium of exchange that holds and represents the value of products and services that can be purchased with it.</p>
<p>When you ask what money is, you are implying that its value is not real, that it is unimportant and can be squandered without real consequences.  But squandering money is the equivalent of squandering the goods and services that it represents.  And, since goods and services are produced through the effort of the people that produce them, you&#8217;re saying that it is ok to squander that effort.  And, since people&#8217;s lives depend upon the exertion of productive effort, you&#8217;re saying that it is ok to squander people&#8217;s lives.</p>
<p>It is the thinking of people like you that has caused all of the suffering in history.  Contrary to the image you attempt to project, you are not putting a high value on life, you are, instead, putting a very low value on human life.  By saying that people should be forced to provide for other people, you are treating the lives of the providers as worthless.  Rather than being lauded for your compassion, you should be condemned for your heartless disregard for the lives and liberties of others.</p>
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		<title>By: Worksinhealthcare</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-258893</link>
		<dc:creator>Worksinhealthcare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 02:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-258893</guid>
		<description>Mary- Very few people with actual exposure to Medicaid are in favor of increased government sponsored health care. Having &quot;free coverage&quot; does not translate into having the services you need. Next month two more of my pediatric clients (both with lifelong neurological disorders) will have used up their lifetime PT, OT, and Speech allotments. While these children have &quot;free health care,&quot; some government administrator has decided deny further therapy funding. Free health care works great for those who are healthy and require only basic services, but good luck getting quality care for a major, lifelong issue. If your 19 year old was born with cerebral palsy or spina bifida, you might have a different opinion of your current health care coverage. 

Regarding the money comment: Medical development costs money. I am paying off seven years of student loans. Treatment payments pay my salary, pay malpractice coverage, rent for our facility etc. I have spent time in the Mayo Clinic research facilities. Research is also very expensive. Developing medical technology, drugs,new treatment techniques, educating medical professionals- health care costs are more than just the cost of the raw materials in a drug. Right now many health care facilities lose money every time they treat a Medicare or Medicaid patient. The rest of us re-subsidize Medicare/caid in higher medical bills. If health care facilities were only reimbursed based on those standards, many facilities would cease to exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary- Very few people with actual exposure to Medicaid are in favor of increased government sponsored health care. Having &#8220;free coverage&#8221; does not translate into having the services you need. Next month two more of my pediatric clients (both with lifelong neurological disorders) will have used up their lifetime PT, OT, and Speech allotments. While these children have &#8220;free health care,&#8221; some government administrator has decided deny further therapy funding. Free health care works great for those who are healthy and require only basic services, but good luck getting quality care for a major, lifelong issue. If your 19 year old was born with cerebral palsy or spina bifida, you might have a different opinion of your current health care coverage. </p>
<p>Regarding the money comment: Medical development costs money. I am paying off seven years of student loans. Treatment payments pay my salary, pay malpractice coverage, rent for our facility etc. I have spent time in the Mayo Clinic research facilities. Research is also very expensive. Developing medical technology, drugs,new treatment techniques, educating medical professionals- health care costs are more than just the cost of the raw materials in a drug. Right now many health care facilities lose money every time they treat a Medicare or Medicaid patient. The rest of us re-subsidize Medicare/caid in higher medical bills. If health care facilities were only reimbursed based on those standards, many facilities would cease to exist.</p>
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		<title>By: momof3</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-258200</link>
		<dc:creator>momof3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 02:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-258200</guid>
		<description>&quot;How is it possible that Amricans don’t even want to provide themselves with free top notch health care&quot;

IT&#039;S NEITHER FREE NOR TOP-NOTCH! That you don&#039;t get that makes anything else your senseless bleeding brain pops out immaterial. And if money is nothing-a construct as you call it-then try no longer paying for your food rent etc, and see if that argument flies with the providers of THOSE services. I&#039;m betting not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How is it possible that Amricans don’t even want to provide themselves with free top notch health care&#8221;</p>
<p>IT&#8217;S NEITHER FREE NOR TOP-NOTCH! That you don&#8217;t get that makes anything else your senseless bleeding brain pops out immaterial. And if money is nothing-a construct as you call it-then try no longer paying for your food rent etc, and see if that argument flies with the providers of THOSE services. I&#8217;m betting not.</p>
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		<title>By: john hunt</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-258174</link>
		<dc:creator>john hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 00:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-258174</guid>
		<description>We have the unequivocal moral highground, so stand tall and proudly proclaim our philosophies. This highground is reflected in most of the comments above, and it is this:  we all believe that the use of force or threat of force to accomplish ones aims is entirely unjustified unless in defense against others&#039; force.  

The progressives use force and threat of force to accomplish their narcissistically-born plans for the greater good.  And they justify the use of offensive force by saying their pet project &quot;won&#039;t be done otherwise&quot;, or &quot;greedy people will not contribute to the needs of others unless they are forced to help.&quot;  More recently, they say that the &quot;majority clearly want this&quot; and claim the moral high ground on this basis.

The arguments against this progressive idiocy are too easy to counter.  But the nutshell is that NOTHING we do forces them to NOT provide health care to those in need, or prevents them from voluntarily getting together to PAY for health care for those in need.  We do not force them in any way.    But they want to force us.   

ANd that is theft, that is rape, that is extortion, that is embezzlement, that is enslavement.  The progressives have not an ounce of claim to the moral highground.   As long as we lovers of individual liberty are willing to FIGHT, are willing to SPEAK, are willing to suffer economic consequences, are willing to TAKE BACK OUR LIBERTY, we will win.

If we instead behave as sheep, then we deserve to be Stalinized.  The era of ANTHEM, of 1984, of Animal Farm is upon us.  

A little rebellion in our every day lives is now absolutely necessary.  

I have already quit the practice of medicine in America because of the progressive collectivism.  It is one stand I can make.  Few will make this stand. But consider it.  Our children depend on us..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have the unequivocal moral highground, so stand tall and proudly proclaim our philosophies. This highground is reflected in most of the comments above, and it is this:  we all believe that the use of force or threat of force to accomplish ones aims is entirely unjustified unless in defense against others&#8217; force.  </p>
<p>The progressives use force and threat of force to accomplish their narcissistically-born plans for the greater good.  And they justify the use of offensive force by saying their pet project &#8220;won&#8217;t be done otherwise&#8221;, or &#8220;greedy people will not contribute to the needs of others unless they are forced to help.&#8221;  More recently, they say that the &#8220;majority clearly want this&#8221; and claim the moral high ground on this basis.</p>
<p>The arguments against this progressive idiocy are too easy to counter.  But the nutshell is that NOTHING we do forces them to NOT provide health care to those in need, or prevents them from voluntarily getting together to PAY for health care for those in need.  We do not force them in any way.    But they want to force us.   </p>
<p>ANd that is theft, that is rape, that is extortion, that is embezzlement, that is enslavement.  The progressives have not an ounce of claim to the moral highground.   As long as we lovers of individual liberty are willing to FIGHT, are willing to SPEAK, are willing to suffer economic consequences, are willing to TAKE BACK OUR LIBERTY, we will win.</p>
<p>If we instead behave as sheep, then we deserve to be Stalinized.  The era of ANTHEM, of 1984, of Animal Farm is upon us.  </p>
<p>A little rebellion in our every day lives is now absolutely necessary.  </p>
<p>I have already quit the practice of medicine in America because of the progressive collectivism.  It is one stand I can make.  Few will make this stand. But consider it.  Our children depend on us..</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-258082</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 21:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-258082</guid>
		<description>The more I read the angrier I become, everyone talks about the costs, the costs, the costs, the costs.
What is money anyway except a man made invention.
What is health and caring for your fellow man? It is what we can do to be good citizens of this earth. So many of these comments are shocking, totally without any feeling, compassion for or understanding for the brotherhood of people.
Money, money, money - and yet, strangely enough - America is running short of it - how many other Western societies have people living in dugouts under city bridges?

The president cannot do it alone, wake up America and take your proselytizing seriously - such a religious folk , with no respect for the neighbor who suffers, incomprehensible.
Money, money, money - this is your God.
Scary and truly very sad. The country will never profit from this divisive nonsense, but many will suffer needlessly. 
It shames me once again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more I read the angrier I become, everyone talks about the costs, the costs, the costs, the costs.<br />
What is money anyway except a man made invention.<br />
What is health and caring for your fellow man? It is what we can do to be good citizens of this earth. So many of these comments are shocking, totally without any feeling, compassion for or understanding for the brotherhood of people.<br />
Money, money, money &#8211; and yet, strangely enough &#8211; America is running short of it &#8211; how many other Western societies have people living in dugouts under city bridges?</p>
<p>The president cannot do it alone, wake up America and take your proselytizing seriously &#8211; such a religious folk , with no respect for the neighbor who suffers, incomprehensible.<br />
Money, money, money &#8211; this is your God.<br />
Scary and truly very sad. The country will never profit from this divisive nonsense, but many will suffer needlessly.<br />
It shames me once again.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-258076</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 20:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-258076</guid>
		<description>I am an American citizen and long time expatriate; my work took me to Europe more than 30 years ago. Having spent the first half of my life on the East Coast I can comprehend the resistance in America to actually paying something to help your fellow man, this is what the resistance to national health care boils down to.
Our health insurance in the Netherlands covers us 100% for absolutely everything - and every single citizen has the same coverage, irregardless of income or stature in society.

How is it possible that Amricans don&#039;t even want to provide themselves with free top notch health care? I pay ( for myself and my 19 year old son) less than $  200 per month. It covers absolutely eveything you could ever need. 
Shocking  ( and very very sad) to think that the supposedly richest country in the world can deny it&#039;s citizens such a basic need  - and that not enough citizens  really care enough to actively effect such changes.
Once again, the States don&#039;t look so good in comparison - not when you&#039;ve seen and personally experienced how other countries manage so superbly well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an American citizen and long time expatriate; my work took me to Europe more than 30 years ago. Having spent the first half of my life on the East Coast I can comprehend the resistance in America to actually paying something to help your fellow man, this is what the resistance to national health care boils down to.<br />
Our health insurance in the Netherlands covers us 100% for absolutely everything &#8211; and every single citizen has the same coverage, irregardless of income or stature in society.</p>
<p>How is it possible that Amricans don&#8217;t even want to provide themselves with free top notch health care? I pay ( for myself and my 19 year old son) less than $  200 per month. It covers absolutely eveything you could ever need.<br />
Shocking  ( and very very sad) to think that the supposedly richest country in the world can deny it&#8217;s citizens such a basic need  &#8211; and that not enough citizens  really care enough to actively effect such changes.<br />
Once again, the States don&#8217;t look so good in comparison &#8211; not when you&#8217;ve seen and personally experienced how other countries manage so superbly well.</p>
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		<title>By: Worksinhealthcare</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-257261</link>
		<dc:creator>Worksinhealthcare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 03:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-257261</guid>
		<description>I am a pediatric physical therapist. I routinely treat children with private insurance, Medicaid, and private pay. Medicaid coverage is so poor that my decision making process is markedly different for children on government health care, as I know they will receive a fraction of the services needed to best deal with their conditions.  Children with severe neurological conditions(traumatic brain injury, cerebral palsy, spinal cord injury) are routinely denied treatment that any other insurance provider would deem necessary. Private health care companies pay for these treatments as they recognize the connection between improved health/ mobility/ independence and reduced lifetime health costs. Medicaid does not. Wisconsin Medicaid is particularly nonsensical. Everyone, including young children, have 35 lifetime physical therapy visits. Once they are gone, you can apply for more sessions, but in nearly all cases treatment is denied. Examples of recent denials I have received: 
A 19 year old one year status post traumatic brain injury had gained the ability to hold her head upright and turn her head to track conversations and people in the room. (A HUGE DEAL- imagine not being able to control where you are looking!). She also gained improved ability to consistently bear weight through her legs when transferring out of her wheelchair. (Another big deal- her mother had been lifting her. Imagine lifting your teenager any time she needed to be moved). Denied- &quot;No functional progress.&quot;

A seven year old with cerebral palsy had frequent respiratory infections. In PT she gained the trunk control to sit independently and gained sufficient respiratory control to cough and to swallow her own saliva without choking. (The respiratory component is huge- when a child with limited motor control dies, it is generally due to pneumonia). Denied- &quot;No functional progress.&quot;

The hardest part of my job is talking with parents who know their child&#039;s independence, health, and ability to safely get through the day will be compromised due to Medicaid restrictions.  Increased government control over health care will wreak havoc among the countries most vulnerable populations, as having health insurance is not the same as getting appropriate health care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a pediatric physical therapist. I routinely treat children with private insurance, Medicaid, and private pay. Medicaid coverage is so poor that my decision making process is markedly different for children on government health care, as I know they will receive a fraction of the services needed to best deal with their conditions.  Children with severe neurological conditions(traumatic brain injury, cerebral palsy, spinal cord injury) are routinely denied treatment that any other insurance provider would deem necessary. Private health care companies pay for these treatments as they recognize the connection between improved health/ mobility/ independence and reduced lifetime health costs. Medicaid does not. Wisconsin Medicaid is particularly nonsensical. Everyone, including young children, have 35 lifetime physical therapy visits. Once they are gone, you can apply for more sessions, but in nearly all cases treatment is denied. Examples of recent denials I have received:<br />
A 19 year old one year status post traumatic brain injury had gained the ability to hold her head upright and turn her head to track conversations and people in the room. (A HUGE DEAL- imagine not being able to control where you are looking!). She also gained improved ability to consistently bear weight through her legs when transferring out of her wheelchair. (Another big deal- her mother had been lifting her. Imagine lifting your teenager any time she needed to be moved). Denied- &#8220;No functional progress.&#8221;</p>
<p>A seven year old with cerebral palsy had frequent respiratory infections. In PT she gained the trunk control to sit independently and gained sufficient respiratory control to cough and to swallow her own saliva without choking. (The respiratory component is huge- when a child with limited motor control dies, it is generally due to pneumonia). Denied- &#8220;No functional progress.&#8221;</p>
<p>The hardest part of my job is talking with parents who know their child&#8217;s independence, health, and ability to safely get through the day will be compromised due to Medicaid restrictions.  Increased government control over health care will wreak havoc among the countries most vulnerable populations, as having health insurance is not the same as getting appropriate health care.</p>
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		<title>By: venividivici</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-256726</link>
		<dc:creator>venividivici</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 00:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-256726</guid>
		<description>109 Darrell

I&#039;m reading the PDF now. Good stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>109 Darrell</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reading the PDF now. Good stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: momof3</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/health-care-reform-vs-universal-health-care/comment-page-3/#comment-256664</link>
		<dc:creator>momof3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 22:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=54906#comment-256664</guid>
		<description>I am so tired of people saying France or Germany or pick-your-small-homogenous-european-nation has such a  great system. Yo uealize many of these countries have fewer citizens than we have ILLEGALS, right? Twenty million or more-all sucking healthcare they pay not a  dime for in taxes or in medical  bills-increasing by a million or so a year. You can not tax citizens enough to cover them. And you know no lib is going to deny noncitizens care. So there is no way on earth socialized medicine will not bankrupt the country. No possible way. 

Give them all amnesty and let them start paying income tax, and we&#039;ll have just as many illegals in 2 years. Probably more, since the first ones will have been seen to get such a great deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so tired of people saying France or Germany or pick-your-small-homogenous-european-nation has such a  great system. Yo uealize many of these countries have fewer citizens than we have ILLEGALS, right? Twenty million or more-all sucking healthcare they pay not a  dime for in taxes or in medical  bills-increasing by a million or so a year. You can not tax citizens enough to cover them. And you know no lib is going to deny noncitizens care. So there is no way on earth socialized medicine will not bankrupt the country. No possible way. </p>
<p>Give them all amnesty and let them start paying income tax, and we&#8217;ll have just as many illegals in 2 years. Probably more, since the first ones will have been seen to get such a great deal.</p>
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