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1. Herding Us Into ObamaCare | Secolul 21 ~ 21st Century:

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Jul 26, 2009 - 2:47 am 2. Formwiz:

The “scare-mongering” the Lefties invoke here is what they’ve used for seventy-five years to keep anyone from reining in the inefficiencies of the vote-buying boondoggle known as Social Security, now on the verge of collapse. As always, what the Left accuses Conservatives of doing or being, is what they themselves are.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:08 am 3. Sandra:

Of course this is the first step towards a government controlled socialized medicine program. It is already established that an appointed board will determine what kind of treatment and level of care a patient will receive, essentially removing the ‘middle man’, formerly known as the patient-advocate doctor, will be eliminated. Very scary indeed. There is just no way around this other to believe health care will be rationed. Take a blue pill- skip the hip replacement. Take a red pill, skip the stents for the hearts. What I can’t understand is why the AARP has endorsed this rationing since senior citizens will be on the blunt end of this heavy handed rationing. I was particularly impressed with the government’s offer of counseling to seniors about end of life care. Take this black pill – and stop being a drain on the public. Is that where we are heading? I believe so.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:57 am 4. Francis W. Porretto:

I fear that even the best focused, starkest analysis of the incentives that would pertain to government-run health care will gain little traction with many Americans. Because of the cost increases they’ve experienced, the economic dislocations happening all around them, and the lies they’ve been told, they’re already frightened.

Is a campaign to frighten them in the reverse direction the right approach? Frightened people tend either to lash out blindly or to close off the rest of the world as far as possible. They’ll resist being frightened still further, whether for good or for ill.

Mightn’t a campaign aimed at restoring confidence in American health care be worth considering? We certainly have enough examples of its superiority to nationalized systems of all sorts. Can we frame our case so as to dispel people’s fears, rather than exacerbate them?

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:09 am 5. Anonymous:

Your choice with nationalized healthcare: Take it or leave it!

And, it’ll be care like you got at the VA, only everwhere now. Fun!

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:09 am 6. tc:

Ms. Rubin:
Thank you for preparing the corpse that is Obamacare for its postmortem examination. You have properly set the stage for a systematic and thorough dissection of this plan. It needs to be systematically disassembled and examined–at both micro and macro levels.

Please consider a weekly column, like a part 1, 2, 3 thing– that will take this monster apart limb by limb and organ by organ. Consider access, coverage, services, providers, freedoms, and second or third order effects upon the economy. Juxtapose Obamacare with UK NHS or the Canadian system.

This shall be the calling of our time.

HR 3200 autopsy begins 26 JULY. Plan for a 4 week examination. Results published weekly.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:17 am 7. Dueling Duo:

Obamacare has become the crisis tipping point for two extremely loud and crystal clear messages.

Obama is saying to America that he is in charge; people will do whatever they are told to do by him and that he will not hesitate to force them into submission to get whatever it is he happens to want. He is saying to the American people, “You cannot stop me now!”

On the other hand the American people are saying to their elected represenatives and governors, “From this day forward, if any of you support anything, I repeat anything that this ego-driven maniac comes up with, then your career is history!”

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:51 am 8. Jack’s Newswatch » Blog Archive » Herding Us Into ObamaCare:

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Jul 26, 2009 - 5:23 am 9. Steve DeMarcus:

This bill as written so far is almost as bad as Hillary-Care from the 1990s. Actually in Tennessee a test of Hillary-Care called TennCare was a massive failure and we still have it although it has gone through many tweaks and cost cutting measure it is still a horrid system that simply costs too much. the only difference here is that you do not have to participate in it. From what I see on page 16 of the AAHCA bill you can only keep your current insurance and may not after the bill is passed be able to get a new or if you do have a plan you can not make changes to it as neither can the insurance provider. Also it must meet an acceptability requirement which tells me that if the government does not like your current plan they might deem it unacceptable and you would lose it and then be required to get the government plan.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:42 am 10. vivo:

I keep asking: has anyone read the 1,018 pages of the Healtcare plan yet?

If you haven’t you don’t know what’s going on. Even senators haven’t read much.

And no one has summarized it either. Most American have ADD, so what do you expect?

And even with over 1,000 pages, there are a lot of details pending to be specified by legislators. It’s a work-in-progress document even if it gets approved. To me, it looks like a start-up document with many blanks to fill.

Job security for lawyers and medical consultants.

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:51 am 11. Jane:

My story: When I was 41, I had an arrhythmia problem which, in a nutshell, would turn my heart off, causing me to faint. The problem became worse and worse. At the time, I was using the HMO option from my employer. I live near Duke Univ and my Dr. knew of an ablation procedure which would most likely fix the problem, allowing me to live a normal life. However, the HMO did not want to pay for this since it was not the “recommended procedure.” My Dr. was writing letters, trying to convince them because the only other option was a lifetime of VERY EXPENSIVE medication and a pacemaker. Unfortunately, my heart would not wait, and I kept keeling over, the episodes becoming more frequent until my Doc feared my heart would not “start up” again, so I ended up having an emergency procedure, had a pacemaker implanted and take medication – forever. I am currently on my second pacemaker (I am 51). My heart is completely dependent (my battery runs out – I die) and I fear that the govt will say when I am 85 and need a fourth pacemaker – I will be rationed right out of existence. But – beyond that – this healthcare is going to be nothing more than a third rate, gigantic HMO.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:19 am 12. Sitruc:

Could we not simply demand that, to demonstrate the workability of the proposed reforms, they be applied to the reform of existing programs Medicare and Medicaid before thrusting it upon the whole populace??
I believe those two programs already have an estimated unfunded liability of over $80 TRILLION, and this Obamacare option will only exacerbate the already festering problems!!
Will the GOP make such demands???

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:29 am 13. Sebastian Shaw:

President Obama continually contradicts himself with Obamacare; in other words, he lies. However, the truth will out & Obamacare–along with President Obama’s mirage of so-called “popularity”–has crumbled into dust. President Obama is flailing in the wind, yet he remains ignorant or in denial of his own loss of personal will given the spectacular failure of Porkulus.

President Obama is politically impotent; it will only get worse after the August recess for him & his precious Obamacare.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:49 am 14. Thomas:

It sounds and looks like the revenge of the inventor of the Final Solution. When Dr. Ezekiel Mengele and brother Dead Fish from the tribe want to separate the -

socially useless elements such as the infirm, old, handicapped and the likes and inculcate them to go and clamor for quick death – only to save the “useful ones” – those who are able bodied and can work – “Arbeit Macht Frei!” –

One cannot help but to evoke Auschwitz’s “selection process” in this lurid story foisted upon us by these scumbags.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:59 am 15. Samizdat:

Speaker Pelosi announced at a news conference on Saturday that under Obama care premiums would not rise but participants benefits would expand. This is akin to the government mandating that your local jewler must sell you his best 3 carat diamond and then telling him he can only charge $1000 for it. It makes no economic sense and is intellectually bankrupt. The scheme can not possibly succeed, unless we are about to adopt the economic policies and mandated social structures of the former Soviet government. We all know how that played out. It’s amazing that collectively the liberals learned nothing from the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Block. They are intellectually married to a vision that has nothing to do with practical reality. Yet they are in charge. (Temporarily)

Sitruc at # 9 above is on the money, but congress knows that if it imposed the system on medicare it would soon have about 60 million senior citizens decending on Washington with pitchforks.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:30 am 16. "progressive"watch:

Obamacare is called health care refore. It isn’t.It is deceit. Reform sounds better than what it is. There is no attempt to reform; it is the destruction of private health care and replacement of it with government control of health care,governement control of all that health care money and the way Americans live and die. That’s raw power and vote-control,people control.

O is for Obama,Obiden,and Orwelllian.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:48 am 17. Worried About The Future:

As a federal retiree I hate to admit it, but the Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) is very nice. NOTE – This is also the health care plan that covers members of Congress and their staff. At present, we are exempt from Obamacare, along with those under Tri-Care (military retirees). However, if Obama is serious in shoving Obamacare down everyone’s throats, then he needs to remove these two exemptions. Then when Congress is writing legislation that will affect them the outcome will be grossly different.

The problem today is that Congress writes legislation which exempts themselves and therefore they are not affected by it and do not care. Only when you remove the Congressional exemptions will you truly get a program that is good.

Another example of Congressional excess which needs to be reigned in would be to terminate the salaries of all of Congress and their staff when they fail to reach a budget agreement in the allotted time, with no provision for back pay after they reach an agreement. Maybe if Congress had to live by real life rules instead of artificial rules in an artificial world, we would see more serious legislation that is realistic.

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:54 am 18. Dean Striker:

This whole mess, healthcare, bailouts, stimulus, on-and-one ad nauseum, is easily dismissed by simply sticking with the morality of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. From that moral foundation it becomes very clear and simple, it doesn’t take thousands of webpages and millions of comments anymore.

All governments are Force and the collectivists are using a false guilt-trip pity-pity scam of Sacrifice your life for some other unknown life.

Read the pages showing in my website header, you’ll be there quickly. thanks.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:01 am 19. Dynomitejim:

The cost of health care will continue to rise until patients can negotiate costs with their doctors. We are already in a government run crisis with medicare/medicade. We need to get back to doctors competing for patients by removing the insurance companies. Showing your insurance card for a routine visit is ridiculous. Until we have a free market health care system, we will fight with the leftists over government run health care.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:16 am 20. Fred Beloit:

Rep Ryan is quoted above by Jennifer as saying : “The public option is not designed to keep private insurance honest but to make private insurance go away.”
This is my current opinion as well. However, I have lately begun seeing ads BY INSURANCE COMPANIES supporting the sick care insurance bill. If Ryan is correct, why would insurance companies want to finance ads for a bill that would spell their own doom? I am afraid something is going on that we do not yet know about.

#17 This is correct. The first ones to be put under the bill’s provisions on a five to ten year trial basis should be the U.S. government, elected and unelected.

Finally: Capretta and Yuval: “So, now, at the eleventh hour, the president is hailing a new approach — vast new powers for a board of experts in Washington to set rules and calibrate fees — as the secret to cutting costs and bringing the system under control, first within Medicare and then beyond.”
This is a truly terrible idea. Think of someone like “Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald” in charge of a sick care insurance panel with no government supervisor, an unlimited budget, and unlimited power over your treatment decisions .
Some might say we have this now, but we don’t. Now we have competition to some degree. With this setup we would be completely powerless over our own treatment.

Sorry for the length, but…”

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:42 am 21. The South Plainsman:

My view is that we should not accept a health care “reform” that does not include Congress and all other Federal employees.

If it is not good enough for them, then it is not good enough for the rest of us.

We fought a Revolution to do away with the notion of “royalty” but Congress and the President are trying to establish themselves as such.

Perhaps its time to throw all the bums out.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:57 am 22. Marc Malone:

Recalls of Congresscritters are an option, too, are they not?

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:16 am 23. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: The ‘Fact of the Matter’ Is….

…that the Democrats are not satisfied with making ’slaves’ of people on welfare. They want to make slaves of ALL of US. And they’ve decided that controlling our very health, vis-a-vis ObamaCare, is the quintessential key to that.

If ALL healthcare is managed by the federal government, then no one can get any other form of healthcare than what the federal government is willing to allow….let alone provide—think political correctness with a VENGEANCE! AND, eventually, only the rich will be allowed to do what they want.

Anyone else practicing anything else will be labelled a ‘witch’, and ‘burned’ accordingly.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free. -- Edward Gibbon ]

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:16 am 24. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Replace “Athenians” with “Americans”…..see where you find yourself….at the hands of the federal government…..

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:17 am 25. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Worried About the Future, et al.
RE: He Can’t….

As a federal retiree I hate to admit it, but the Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) is very nice. NOTE – This is also the health care plan that covers members of Congress and their staff. At present, we are exempt from Obamacare, along with those under Tri-Care (military retirees). However, if Obama is serious in shoving Obamacare down everyone’s throats, then he needs to remove these two exemptions. — Worried About the Future

The military would ‘revolt’. Or at least be less inclined fire on those protesting against the administration.

It’s written up in history that when the military find themselves in the same lot as the ‘peons’, they tend to side with the peons as opposed to the guy who writes their paycheck.

Look at the Russian—not Bolsevik—Revolution. When the Czars troops found themselves to be more like the serfs and factory workers protesting their hunger, they refused to suppress the demonstrations. Later they were part and parcel of the open rebellion which overthrew Nicholas II. As they wouldn’t defend him from the ’serfs’.

A Communist like Obama will remember the history lessons of the past. After all, his political science mentor, Bill Ayers, would have taught him such.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....Show US the birth certificate!]

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:23 am 26. Diane:

In her latest Contentions blog, Jennifer Rubin cites Re. Paul Ryan: “Once competing plans have been driven out, the government’s approval or disapproval will dictate the care providers may offer to beneficiaries, automatically denying treatments for certain categories of patients.”

My question: if this happens, doesn’t the free market step in, and new competitors emerge to fill the gap? I’m thinking of the phenomenon we already see of “concierge plans” – top-flight physicians who make themselves unconditionally available to a limited list of elite patients who pay $10,000/year for this service. Doesn’t ObamaCare simply guarantee the emergence of a two-tier medical system for the haves and have-nots, akin to the private school system that evolved alongside the failing publics?

Jul 26, 2009 - 9:45 am 27. Gramps Cane:

ObamaCare will solve the problem of Social Security going bankrupt. Here’s how it works. When SS was first introduced, the lifespan of the average American was 65 – the same age at which one became eligible to draw SS. Free money for the government to waste! But Americans had the audacity to start living longer. The government then had to start returning to the people who had paid into the system some of the money they had invested. However that money was already spent. The solution? First stage: raise the eligibility age. But that can only be done so much. Second stage: National medical care. Make sure the people do no live long enough to collect. Nasty problem solved. The cost of medical care will drop because there will be no elderly, infirm, or terminally to receive medical care. It’s a win-win situation for the socialist government. The only losers are the American people.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:05 am 28. Webutante:

Hope Diane is right about about the inevitable emergence of free market options. If nothing else, there would be a black market, underground railroad offered to anyone who could pay to get out of the kind of ironic healthcare slavery Obama proposes to rahm down our throats.

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:05 am 29. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Diane
RE: Heh

My question: if this happens, doesn’t the free market step in, and new competitors emerge to fill the gap? — Diane

Only if the government ‘allows’ them in. And governments, throughout history, have been very much opposed to ‘competition’. In other words……

….THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A ‘FREE MARKET’!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Don't steal. The government hates competition.]

Jul 26, 2009 - 10:11 am 30. Professor Guvinoff:

Where does it say “We the Lemmings…”?

Jul 26, 2009 - 11:45 am 31. noreen:

What will happen to the elderly, the disabled and the weakest and most vulnerable Americans? They will be expendable that’s what. Just delve into the history of Obama’s health “czar”. Rhambo “Dead Fish” Emanuel’s brother. It is scary for sure. Government bureacrats deciding if you are worth health care, deciding if you are expendable. This atrocity cannot happen now or ever. This is not about health care. It is about changing the very fabric of our society. For people who are supposed to be so sensitive , compassionate and in tune with diversity their philosophy is pretty brutal and ugly. The word must get out and be spread among us.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:05 pm 32. Samizdat:

The most useful info for me that came from attendance at a local Tea Party was the point made by a former state rep about the value of contact with legislators via personal letter and personal Email. Mass emails and petitions generally don’t get legislators attention, but personal ones are more likely to influence.

With that in mind, and the August recess coming up, make sure you send a courteous but frim email about health care to your state Democrat reps in Congress. More importantly, see if you can find a friend who is against Obama care and likes their current insurance to write as well. My wife generally doesn’t write her Congress person, but on this issue she has. Reps will be watchful for personal emails, particularly from Democrats and people they have never heard from before. Complaining in a Blog is one thing. Exercising you constitutional right to petition the government about a specific reason you don’t want Obama care is another, and more potentially effective to boot.

Let’s make August a very long and pressure filled month for Democrat Congress people. They should be forced to see how little the public likes their ideas on health care reform. Blue dogs are especially likely to listen.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:19 pm 33. Sherab Zangpo:

#11 Jane

“I fear that the govt will say when I am 85 and need a fourth pacemaker – I will be rationed right out of existence.”

We will not allow this nazi-marxist BS to happen.

as

#30 Professor Guvinoff

rightly says:

“Where does it say “We the Lemmings…”?”

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Jul 26, 2009 - 12:22 pm 34. myth buster:

How long do you suppose it will be before this pro-death administration starts suggesting forced abortion and sterilization? No wait, the science czar has already advocated forced sterilization.

Jul 26, 2009 - 1:40 pm 35. Wolla Dalbo:

Take a look at today’s New York Post, which features quotes by Rahm Emanual’s doctor brother Ezekiel, spotlighting his views on health care. Ezekiel has already been appointed to the “Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research,”(FCOCER)–that Obama & Co. thoughtfully created for us through legislation tucked into the Stimulus bill–”cost effective” and that we will be eligible for, and what level of “appropriate care” we will be entitled to under their nationalized health care system(http://tinyurl.com/mbq3rc).

Some quotes from the article:

“Emanuel bluntly admits that the cuts will not be pain-free. “Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely ‘lipstick’ cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change,” he wrote last year (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).

Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, “as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others” (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).”

…”Emanuel, however, believes that “communitarianism” should guide decisions on who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia” (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. ‘96).

Translation: Don’t give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson’s or a child with cerebral palsy.

He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: “Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years” (Lancet, Jan. 31).”

I also note that, tucked into the Democrat’s health bill is a requirement for mandatory “end of life consultations” every five years or, more frequently as they age, for the elderly–not that Obama & Co and the bureaucrats at the FCOCER are trying to frog march you “eaters” off the stage of life to make way for younger, healthier, productive, tax-paying people, or anything.

Welcome–especially all those who are disabled or older–to “Hope” and “Change.”

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:02 pm 36. Wolla Dalbo:

Line 3 in my paragraph 1 above should read”…Stimulus bill that that will decide which drugs, medical treatments and procedures are “cost effective”…”

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:06 pm 37. Sebastian Shaw:

The Washington Post, part of the slathering MSM, has reported today that President Obama is purposely hiding several key costs in his precious Obamacare via Newsbusters:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/07/26/wapo-shocker-president-hiding-costs-obamacare

If the Washington Post is breaking away, the other MSM is sure to follow. What turned in a bad week for Obama will only get far worse for the Democrats & President Obama in the coming weeks until the August recess…

Jul 26, 2009 - 2:21 pm 38. Never For Obama:

I too agree with post #32. I have written personal emails to my congressman and senators and I have also urged a like-minded friend to do the same thing. In all cases, I have gotten a response, so our elected officials, or more likely their staff, are READING and responding to these messages. I urge everyone to WRITE to Congress and let them know how real voters feel about this abomination of nationalized health care that Obama and Pelosi are trying to force on us.

Jul 26, 2009 - 3:14 pm 39. blotto:

#17 Worried: Stole my post.

When the Congress, Senate and WH, all the MSM, college professors and administrators, million/billionaires, federal/state government employees, Kos/HuffPo, lawyers and doctors submit to the public system, I will sign on.

But we know Soros/Kennedy/Reid/Pelosi, et al would never deign to place themselves at the same level as those they tower over.

Jul 26, 2009 - 4:52 pm 40. Will:

It’s about time the sheep got smart !!

Jul 26, 2009 - 5:53 pm 41. venividivici:

He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: “Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years” (Lancet, Jan. 31).”

If the government would get out of the damn market altogether, it wouldn’t matter who got what care at what age, so long as they (as private individuals) could pay the fee. Set up younger people with a catastrophic policy, so that we don’t lose 25 year olds who could turn out to be productive citizens for the long-run to something treatable while they’re young and let the market sort out the rest.

The difference in mindset between someone who thinks markets work best and sees the opportunity to create new medical treatments and technologies to treat people of all ages and the bureaucrat who only sees costs is staggering. It’s like people like Emanuel have had the part of their brain that creates new solutions turned off.

Jul 26, 2009 - 6:58 pm 42. Shawn F.:

#20 Fred: “I have lately begun seeing ads BY INSURANCE COMPANIES supporting the sick care insurance bill”

#26 Diane: “…doesn’t the free market step in…”

I believe that the people who are currently in power wish to remain in power indefinitely – not the faces that we see on the news, but the people who are pulling the strings. The anti Judeo-Christian philosophy of human secularism has at its heart the worship of your own moral universe. Having power is the only way to legitimize this belief system and just like the friends of Job they can cast down any who do not have power because they obviously do not have any sanctity. Thus, killing babies or the elderly are easy enough for them.

My point here is that the people who are running the MSM are no different than the people who are running the insurance companies are they? Why wouldn’t they all want a corrupt US government who can keep out legitimate, ethical competition? They could have the pretense of having the government option and private options but the private insurers would no longer have to compete with each other. They would only have to be ever-so-slightly better than the public option. The only issue that the powers that be would have to focus on would be how it would read from the perspective of history. If it looks legitimate – even slightly then those of us who know it is a sham would only be thought of as geezers who complain about how “everything was better in my day”.

Enough of my paranoid rant. I think it’s time for my red pill (smoke em while you’ve got em)

Jul 26, 2009 - 7:33 pm 43. gracie:

If if were mandatory that the people that make our laws had to live by the laws they pass….they would be more careful.

Jul 26, 2009 - 8:08 pm 44. Jerry:

The surest way to kill the health reform movement is to force our elected officials to join it – city, state and Federal. If I am not mistaken, there is a provision in both the House and Senate versions leaving intact the Government’s very extensive health insurance packages.

Let’s make sure that both Congress and all members of the administration share the pain. Then, let us see what kind of package they produce.

Furthermore, let us make sure that “money” cannot buy improved service. If an individual can buy a knee replacement, then that constitutes a multi-tiered system. If “money” can buy better care, then that is worse than our current system.

Of course, NOT preventing the purchase of improved care by the well-off will also cause the rich to hoard their wealth, since it will be necessary to retain it to insure access to health services at some unknown point in the future. Such a poorly structured system will do more to harm the overall economy than most of President Obama’s other ill-conceived policies. If I have to die from lack of care, then so should Senator Edward Kennedy, don’t you think!

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:37 am 45. Suzy Eckhom:

Obama care isn’t about health anymore than the stimulus package was about the economy. These are people with a power agenda. If you go from that to what they would do if they got control over 60% of the GDP, re: health care, it is easier to understand. The Obama people don’t give a rats patootie about the citizens. They only see us as votes. If the blue dogs keep saying that they want costs cut further and Obama concurs, they will get their wish. Only the problem is that there is no other way to cut the pie except to deny people surgeries, medicines, treatments for cancers and other procedures. If they come out and announce that they can make this revenue neutral, then they will get the cover they need to pass this thing. If opposition to the bill is only emphasizing that they are keeping the costs down, they will pass this. Opposition needs to come from seniors and other targeted “savings” groups. If they were serious about health care wouldn’t they have targeted the people who need the help first and dealt left the ones happy with their care alone? Wouldn’t they have tested the plan in smaller groups so that they would have empirical info that it would work? Wouldn’t they have dealt with the illegals insurance separately instead of piling them into this bill? Wouldn’t any true health care bill have to deal with TORT reform? Hey, all that money they gave to ACORN would’ve gone far to help uninsured children. Why has no one suggested that people with pre-existing conditions could barter with the insurance companies to pay a larger percentage of the care that is pre-existing with a gov mandate? Why is Congress’s insurance private instead of one of these wonderful gov sponsored atrocities?People, wake up. Nothing the government offers you is ever free. Someone else might be paying for it, but if you think that it is free, you’re very wrong. What happens if I’m right and you are wrong? If I’m right, we could get insurance reform. If you’re wrong, we could be screwed and all our families would not have proper health care. Why would you risk ruining the best medical there is in the world by nationalizing it because of stupidity? Aren’t you tired of being told how great this guy is when all the evidence shows that he doesn’t know what he is doing? He sounds good, I’ll grant you that, but many of the worst dictators in history could talk well. I know people from Germany who think that their gov -care is so special. They are also people who will never be able to rise into a better level of success because they are taxed to death and the health budgets are growing and growing every year. This is not a self sustaining project. The problem for me is that the gov people trying to cram this down our throats know that it is unsustainable. They just don’t care because they know how to push liberal buttons and get what they want. Shouldn’t people who vote have to take an intelligence quiz first? At least they should know rudimentary math! This doesn’t add up, folks!

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:56 am 46. Marc Malone:

Take heart, people. Evil bears the seeds of its own destruction. If Obama had put through the healthcare plan first, he’d've had enough political capital to get through the stimulus (payoff) package, too. As it is, it’s dead in the water as long as we keep up the pressure. Obama’s numbers are free-falling. Below 50%, and he can’t get through any unpopular legislation.

Healthcare wasn’t his Waterloo. The “stupidly” comment was. The post-racial lie died. Every white who’d voted for the black man in hopes it would end the charges of racism has abandoned ship. It was truly offensive, and they now see him as the race-hustler he is. He is done, after just six months and a couple days.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:10 am 47. Bohemond:

Vivo:

“If you haven’t you don’t know what’s going on. Even senators haven’t read much.

And no one has summarized it either. Most American have ADD, so what do you expect?”

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://theeprovocateur.blogspot.com/2009/07/definitive-dossier-on-house-health-care.html

http://theeprovocateur.blogspot.com/2009/07/definitive-dossier-on-house-health-care_27.html

Jul 27, 2009 - 7:13 am 48. kazooskibum:

The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise.

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:13 am 49. Catholic Femina:

Anyone who is ready to hand over their private insurance needs to visit a public health clinic… I did and it was a chilling experience. The plan of the Obama Care is to socialize and control medicine. See my blog for an account of the clinic visit

Jul 27, 2009 - 8:21 am 50. Linda Rivera:

U.S. HEALTHCARE: CUT YOUR LIFE SHORT
Obama promised HOPE and CHANGE. The media never asked what frightening changes Obama planned for Americans.

WORLDNETDAILY.COM
July 22, 2009
Obamacare for old folks: Just ‘cut your life short’
Health plan provision demands ‘end-of-life’ counseling

By Bob Unruh

The version of President Obama’s universal health care plan pending in the U.S. House would require “end-of-life” counseling for senior citizens, and the former lieutenant governor for the state of New York is warning people to “protect their parents” from the measure.

At issue is section 1233 of the legislative proposal that deals with a government requirement for an “Advance Care Planning Consultation.”

Betsy McCaughey, the former New York state officer, told former president candidate Fred Thompson during an interview on his radio program the “consultation” is no more or less than an attempt to convince seniors to die.

“One of the most shocking things is page 425, where the Congress would make it mandatory absolutely that every five years people in Medicare have a required counseling session,” she said. “They will tell [them] how to end their life sooner.”

McCaughey also said the Obama administration is suggesting that medical care be withheld from seniors based on the expected years they have left to live.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=104719

Obama’s Civilian National Security Force
Obama promised change. The End of America as we know it:

Obama: “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y

PRAVDA: America’s Descent into Marxism – Brief Video
http://www.solutionsfromscience.com/

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:05 pm 51. Mike W.:

The only reason that health care reform will not be passed in this country is because the vast majority of Republican members of congress and a handful of Democrats are completely beholden to the insurance industry. Look at the biggest opponents of health care reform, and then look at who their biggest corporate contributers are. It’s clear to anyone with half a brain that Republicans have absolutely no intention of any kind of meaningful health care reform. Democrats tried it in the 90s and reform was killed by Republicans. Republicans had opportunities from 2001-2007 to enact health care reform, and did nothing, because they don’t give a **** about providing working families with affordable health care. Now, Democrats have another chance to reform the industry, and who is standing in the way again? Republicans. That’s because it doesn’t matter what the bill looks like, whether or not there is a public option, whether or not it is single-payer, or whether or not it is less expensive than the current system – Republicans will always try to kill anything that reforms the industry. And the reason for this is because:
1. Republican leaders are completely beholden to the corporate contributions they receive from the health insurance industry.
2. Republican leaders would much rather play party politics than confront challenges.

Have the Republicans come up with any kind of meaningful alternative health care bill? Of course not. They do not intend to, and they never will. Their plan is to kill any reform, period. What they are apparently too stupid to realize yet, though, is that if health reform fails, Americans will blame Republicans and the health care industry, not Obama.

Jul 27, 2009 - 12:36 pm 52. Karin:

Claire McCaskill, the Missouri Senator whose office offered such a rude reception to protesters against the Stalinization of our healthcare system, is hosting a town hall meeting on the subject this evening at 7:00. Here’s the address:

St. Louis Community College — Forest Park Campus
Highlander Lounge
5600 Oakland Ave.
St. Louis, Missouri
Marxist drones have been instructed by Daily Kos to attend. If you’re anywhere near St. Louis, you should too. The media would love nothing better than a scene of unanimous full-throated support for socialism to run over and over on the evening news.

More info at Gateway Pundit.

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:28 pm 53. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Heh

So…..

….I called up my congressman’s office and asked the staffer if, under this new and improved program, I’d get the same quality of healthcare as my Congressman got.

No reply yet….

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]

Jul 27, 2009 - 1:57 pm 54. Nosingin:

#51 Mike W-apparently you aren’t watching the news. The most troublesome opposition to this Healthcare boondoggle is the blue dog DEMOCRATS. Obama doesn’t need Republicans for anything. He has all the votes that he needs with his own party. THEY are the opposition, if it weren’t for those opposing democrats, this would easily pass. Apparently you didn’t listen to the message from the OMB. This is NOT reform, cuts no costs, in fact increases the costs of healthcare. You also apparenlty haven’t read any of the above articles or checked on any of the facts that are posted citing the very unpalatable truths buried in this plan. One of Obamas bigger problems is also that he is beholden to the unions and he can’t figure out how to exempt them without looking completely corrupt. Go read some of the MSM even and you might see it. Unless you are too busy trolling sites to bash Republicans. Never mind the issue at hand. You want to make it partisan but this affects our countrys welfare.

Jul 27, 2009 - 2:36 pm 55. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Mike W
RE: Heh (Reprised)

Republicans will always try to kill anything that reforms the industry…. — Mike W

Have you called your Congressperson and asked them if EVERYONE amongst US will get the same healthcare as our Congresspeople get?

What was the reply?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]

Jul 27, 2009 - 3:03 pm 56. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Maybe….

….we should step ‘out-of-the-box’ with this.

Let’s not think about how OUR government does ‘business’. Let’s look at the ways ‘communist’ governments do ‘business’. Say like the way the Communist Chinese are doing their steel ‘business’. Rife with corruption, the ‘workers’, i.e., all those people that the Communists were supposed to support, got the point that they’ve had to start killing their ’supervisors’.

Why?

Because with the ‘re-organization’, the ‘people’ get NOTHING and the ’supervisors’ get six-digit bonuses.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[In Capitalism people prey upon (the) People. With Communism it's just the opposite.]

Jul 27, 2009 - 3:56 pm 57. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Obama IS a Communist who HATES US…..

Jul 27, 2009 - 4:03 pm 58. Chuck Pelto:

P.P.S. And self-hating fools elected him and this Congress to power over US…..

Jul 27, 2009 - 4:03 pm 59. Sebastian Shaw:

The Democrats new strategy: Ignore evidence, “Trust Us” says Nancy Pelosi via Hot Air:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/27/new-dem-strategy-on-obamacare-ignore-the-evidence-and-just-trust-us/

Desperation just got more stinky; the stench is spreading from President Obama to Nancy Pelosi. In the meantime, Nancy Pelosi’s poll ratings are dropping like a stone in dense gravity.

Jul 27, 2009 - 4:12 pm 60. James Raider:

While casting about for health care systems to emulate, Canada’s system isn’t as represented. The reality is that Canada’s Medicare is breaking.

http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2008/05/canadas-breaking-health-care-system.html

There even noise of Canada “Copying” the American system, to fix the cracks.

Jul 27, 2009 - 6:15 pm 61. Suzy Eckhom:

The reason real reform can not take place is that TORT reform is neccessary for any kind of health reform.The Dems are beholden to trial lawyers and with out them, we wouldn’t have the shining example of character like John Edwards. If reform was what they wanted, wouldn’t they work with the insurance companies? Or why haven’t they addressed the reasons why asprin in a hospital cost $50? When my mom died in the hospital, it took 6 months to figure out the bill. We were billed for surgeries she didn’t have, an ambulance she did use etc. I called the insurance company and they just said Oh,OK! Our system is filled with corruption from the administrators, the hospital boards, the insurance companies and the gov officials. Where to start? The best part of health care is the staffs, the doctors, the technicians. Shouldn’t they be the ones to make the profits? Obamacare believes in starving the people who perform the services and reward the people who do nothing. Of course, it worked for him….

Jul 27, 2009 - 11:07 pm 62. vivo:

47. Bohemond:

“Ask and ye shall receive”

Thank you for the links. Unfortunately, it’s not a summary of the Health Plan. It contains opinions of the author of things he doesn’t like. We need a straightforward summary, no more than five pages.

Jul 28, 2009 - 2:43 am 63. Linda Rivera:

ACTION ALERT: NEW YORK CITY – Protest Chuck Schumer Support of Health Care Rout!

Gathering of Eagles
Action Alert

Say NO to Nationalized Healthcare at Sen. Chuck Schumer’s Manhattan office!

Join Tea Party Patriots and concerned citizens to urge Senator Schumer to vote against Nationalized Health Care.

When: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 6:30pm
Where: 757 Third Avenue, New York, NY Btwn E47th and E48th Sts.

Jul 28, 2009 - 6:49 am 64. Fred Beloit:

Mike W at #51
“The only reason that health care reform will not be passed in this country is because the vast majority of Republican members of congress and a handful of Democrats are completely beholden to the insurance industry.”

When the basis of an argument is wrong, the entire argument can be ignored. The reason why both Repubs and some Dems oppose the sick care insurance bill is that it turns over sick care insurance to the government, or worse to a panel of “experts” without supervision, and under no management themselves. (Perhaps car insurance will be next.) Sick care insurance for the elderly and penurious already exists (Medicare and Medicaid). Those who have it like it. Only one problem. It is financially unsustainable, as is Social Security. The government can’t take over for personal responsibility in any field. This simply costs too much, not to mention the argument that this is unconstitutional legislative behavior.

To keep government socialist programs financially viable takes: (1) A large majority of very heavily taxed citizens in a growing economy. But where there are heavily taxed citizens there is seldom a growing economy. (2) Ensuring only a few expensive government programs exist at the same time. The clamor from the voters of the Left ensures there must be more and more such programs (government-paid cars for transportation of low-paid workers?) that are never ended.

Jul 28, 2009 - 8:59 am 65. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Just Heard Back….

….from my Congressman’s local office.

The bottom line is that as the proposed healthcare program exists now….

….Congressmen and other federal employees get a superior form of healthcare than the rest of US get.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Health for me (congressman) and not for thee.]

P.S. Why am I reminded of “Some animals are more equal than others”?

Jul 28, 2009 - 11:17 am 66. Chuck Pelto:

P.P.S. This scenario was written about in the 1970s. Read The Forever War.

Pay particular attention to what is going on when the protagonists take ‘leave’ after the first mission…..

Jul 28, 2009 - 11:20 am 67. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All the Rubes Out There
RE: You Voted For This S—

Explain yourselves!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
['Hope' you're happy with the 'Change'.]

Jul 28, 2009 - 11:40 am 68. Genghis Kohn:

One unmentioned consequence of a nationalized health care system that is not being mentioned relates to the resulting demographics of physician-providers that you can expect. Already in evidence in Great Britain and Canada, is the steadily increasing proportion of foreign born, foreign trained third world doctors filling the ranks as home-grown practioners flee, and physicians-to-be decide that it is not worth it.

Jul 28, 2009 - 11:42 am 69. Kelly:

Please call the Blue Dog Democrats today and tell them you oppose the HR 3200 Health Care Reform Bill. Time is of the essence, call at least a few!

Jason Altmire Dem Labor BlueDog PA Washington DC (202) 225-2565
Michael Arcuri Dem BlueDog NY Washington DC (202) 225-3665
John Barrow Dem Energy BlueDog GA Washington DC (202) 225-2823
Marion Berry Dem BlueDog AR Washington DC (202) 225-4076
Sanford Bishop Dem BlueDog GA Washington DC (202) 225-3631
—–
Dan Boren Dem BlueDog OK Washington DC (202) 225-2701
Allen Boyd Dem BlueDog FL Washington DC (202) 225-5235
Kevin Brady GOP Ways TX Washington DC (202) 225-4901
Bobby Bright Dem BlueDog AL Washington DC (202) 225-2901
Dennis Cardoza Dem BlueDog CA Washington DC (202) 225-6131
Christopher P. Carney Dem BlueDog PA Washington DC (202) 225-3731
Ben Chandler Dem BlueDog KY Washington DC (202) 225-4706
Travis Childers Dem BlueDog MS Washington DC (202) 225-4306
Jim Cooper Dem BlueDog TN Washington DC (202) 226-1035
Henry Cuellar Dem BlueDog TX Washington DC (202) 225-1640
Lincoln Davis Dem BlueDog TN Washington DC (202) 225-6931
Joe Donnelly Dem BlueDog IN Washington DC (202) 225-3915
Brad Ellsworth Dem BlueDog IN Washington DC (202) 225-4636
Gabrielle Giffords Dem BlueDog AZ Washington DC (202) 225-2542
Bart Gordon Dem Energy BlueDog TN Washington DC (202) 225-4231
Parker Griffith Dem BlueDog AL Washington DC (202) 225-4801
Jane Harman Dem Energy BlueDog CA Washington DC (202) 225-8220
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin Dem BlueDog SD Washington DC (202) 225-2801
Baron Hill Dem Energy BlueDog IN Washington DC (202) 226-6866
Tim Holden Dem BlueDog PA Washington DC (202) 225-5546
Frank M. Kratovil, Jr. Dem BlueDog MD Washington DC (202) 225-5311
Jim Marshall Dem BlueDog GA Washington DC (202) 225-6531
Charlie Melancon Dem Energy BlueDog LA Washington DC (202) 225-4031
Mike Michaud Dem BlueDog ME Washington DC (202) 225-6306
Dennis Moore Dem BlueDog KS Washington DC (202) 225-2865
Patrick J. Murphy Dem BlueDog PA Washington DC (202) 225-4276
Glenn Nye Dem BlueDog VA Washington DC (202) 225-4215
Collin Peterson Dem BlueDog MN Washington DC (202) 225-2165
Mike Ross Dem Energy BlueDog AR Washington DC (202) 225-3772
John Salazar Dem BlueDog CO Washington DC (202) 225-4761
Loretta Sanchez Dem BlueDog CA Washington DC (202) 225-2965
Adam Schiff Dem BlueDog CA Washington DC (202) 225-4176
David Scott Dem BlueDog GA Washington DC (202) 225-2939
Zack Space Dem Energy BlueDog OH Washington DC (202) 225-6265
John Tanner Dem Ways BlueDog TN Washington DC (202) 225-4714
Gene Taylor Dem BlueDog MS Washington DC (202) 225-5772
Mike Thompson Dem Ways BlueDog CA Washington DC (202) 225-3311
Charlie Wilson Dem BlueDog OH Washington DC (202) 225-5705

Jul 28, 2009 - 1:28 pm 70. vivo:

69. Kelly:

“Please call the Blue Dog Democrats today and tell them you oppose the HR 3200 Health Care Reform Bill.”

And also tell them that a great majority approves it.

Jul 28, 2009 - 4:54 pm 71. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: vivo and Pathological Lying

And also tell them that a great majority approves it. — vivo

Obama’ rating has plummeted over the last few weeks. And, according to reasonably reliable sources all over this ‘healthcare’ c—.

And yet this ‘idiot’ insists that US is all behind turning our lives, in a literal sense, over to the federal government.

vivo, is, by my understanding, a total idiot OR, more likely, someone who thinks his healthcare will be better than that provided the rest of US.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]

Jul 30, 2009 - 12:53 pm 72. domino:

Send SOS to Senators. SOS stands for Save Our Seniors,For our seniors it is more like Obama Scare instead of Obama care.

Jul 30, 2009 - 1:11 pm 73. Iam-ru Awake:

Sheep? It’s absolutely fascinating how quickly big pharma and Fox News can whip up a frenzy-fest of people fighting against their own best interests:

How providing cost reducing OPTIONS can be twisted into —> “a government take-over of health care”.

How providing free LIVING WILL CONSULTATIONS, can be twisted into —> “Obama’s death panels”.

How providing PREVENTATIVE CARE INCENTIVE for doctors, can be twisted into “government coming in between you and your health care provider”.

HOW FINALLY PROVIDING ADEQUATE CARE FOR AMERICANS WHO CAN LEAST AFFORD IT, IS TWISTED INTO —> “SOCIALIZED MEDICINE”

I have one simple request for anyone reading this:
Think for one moment what will occur if the insurance lobby wins and no real reform is passed:

Carefully think about this and ask yourself if you are happy with your health insurance cost going up by 200% the rate of inflation year, after year, after year.

Ask yourself if you are happy with millions of jobs being shipped overseas due to high health costs in the U.S.

Ask yourself if you will be happy as the U.S. health system continues to spend a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country, but continues to rank WORST in preventable deaths among industrialized nations. WORST!!!

If this really is a Christian nation, as most would claim, I am seeing fewer and fewer signs of it every day. What ever happened to, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’?

I can’t help but to wonder why those angry mobs at the town hall meetings are not fighting FOR the PUBLIC OPTION rather than against it? Why they are not picketing the insurance industry that is financially incentivized to DENY your coverage (based on pre-existing conditions, etc. etc. etc.) when it comes time to anti-up. Why medical payments are STOPPED, after a fixed period of time, EVEN THOUGHT YOU HAVE MADE INSURANCE PAYMENTS LIKE CLOCKWORK YOUR ENTIRE ADULT LIFE.

You want to see a REAL death panel at work? Just look into the current practices of the most popular health insurance providers.

Get the facts, and then get real folks. If you help to blow THIS CHANCE for high quality health care that EVERYONE can afford, then there may never be another opportunity to actually once-and-for-all get this one right.

References:
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
http://www.americashealthrankings.org/2008/index.html
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN0765165020080108
Matthew 25:40

Aug 10, 2009 - 12:58 am

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