94 Comments

1. Francis W. Porretto:

Refusing to recognize a threat is strategically equivalent to surrendering to it.

The “mental illness” and “coincidence” dismissals of these incidents strain credulity well beyond a reasonable man’s breaking point. It’s well past time that we confine Islam and its adherents to a mental ward, within which they can harm only one another and from which they cannot escape. The alternative is further murders, further acts of terrorism against Western nations with secular governments, and further concessions to Islam, Muslims, and shari’a law: a progression that can have only one terminus.

Do we love freedom enough to do what must be done?

Nov 29, 2009 - 2:27 am 2. Terry:

Much as I dislike psycho-babble, I have to say that I have always thought that Islam induces a form of mental illness. I’m originally from an Arab/Muslim country so this is not an observation made lightly – I’ve seen it most of my life, a definite form of paranoia, belief in crazy conspiracy theories, a barely contained rage waiting for a pretext for violence. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a direct relationship between Islamic teaching & violence.

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:34 am 3. Matthew:

From the PATRIOT act:

(5) the term ‘domestic terrorism’ means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are
a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or
of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by
mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction
of the United States.

That’s a pretty standard definition. I think the UK runs with something similar.

I believe the argument about whether hasan is a terrorist is well and truly still open. It’s _possible_, but until we actually know his motive, or even what he’s said, he’s indistinguishable from someone who freaked out and went postal. He’s made no demands, hasn’t made a public statement, nothing. When you actually have a piece of evidence that says he was trying to achieve a political end, then you’ve got him on the charge – until then, he’s just a deranged killer.

Just having an ideology doesn’t cut it, sorry. Scratch the surface and you’ll find that every nut with a gun has some sort of ideology. Every mass shooter in history has had some twisted personal motivation. A revenge attack doesn’t make for terrorism either – see previous comment about mass shooters. Just being muslim and a nutter doesn’t do it either. That’s not what makes it terrorism. Terrorism means something – if you want to broaden its definition, then have a chat to your congressman, and accept that the US has a lot more domestic terrorism than you’d probably like to accept. I’m sorry if it seems like splitting hairs, but he’s also not guilty of genocide, war crimes, forgery or tax evasion – also words that mean something.

Note – I’m not defending the guy. I’m asking for some common sense about what “terrorism” means. It’s possible that he IS one, but it’s unreasonable to have a go at people for (correctly) holding the line at this time. I’d be happy to explain this to dana perino in person.

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:41 am 4. Fantom:

“An Islamic terrorist attack doesn’t necessarily need several participants or a direct connection to a terrorist organization. It doesn’t need to be spectacular or done by someone motivated by nothing other than theology. It just needs to be an act of violence aimed at instilling fear in order to advance the cause of Islam,”

FTFY

Nov 29, 2009 - 4:19 am 5. RAH:

I agree that these murderous attacks may be motivated by sympathy of Islam fundalmentalism but that does not make them terrorists attacks. These are just criminal actions. Any criminal action has an element of terror if it is violent assault against a person.

So lets not broaden the definition of a terrorist attack to every murder attempt.

The perp of the Ft Hood shooting was not a terrorist he was traitor since he was a uniformed officer of the military.

It is sloppy to use the term terrorist to every action and person who acts against the US and attacks innocents. A lot of mundane criminal actions target innocents. It may be heinous but not terrorist.

Terror as a tactic to make a political action by a non US national. US nationals who attack US interests may be traitors or common criminals. Motivation is a very difficult item for justice. Usually it is the action that determines the crime not the motivation.

Nov 29, 2009 - 4:59 am 6. Randy:

Matthew,

We don’t need to “actually know [the] motive” to declare a crime a “hate crime”. We simply assume the intent/motive. I would suggest rationality would dictate that we apply the law according to the facts and outcome, rather than assuming the perpetrator’s thoughts?

Nov 29, 2009 - 5:54 am 7. jb:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. We need to call an act of war by it’s proper name. Like most things in life, ignoring a problem will not make it go away.

Home grown Islamic terror has become a major problem. Letting them off on a mental defect defense is just crazy. I suggest Hasan should have been “put down” like a dog at the scene, the police officer made a bad judgment call by not spending the extra 30-40 cents on one more bullet. It would have saved us a lot of trouble.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:01 am 8. Anonymous:

“I believe the argument about whether hasan is a terrorist is well and truly still open. It’s _possible_, but until we actually know his motive, or even what he’s said, he’s indistinguishable from someone who freaked out and went postal. He’s made no demands, hasn’t made a public statement, nothing. . .”

You may not be aware of the full extent of Hasan’s jihadic sympathies:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/major-hasans-mail-wait-join-afterlife/story?id=9130339

And this article is simply an update. If you were to read the additional articles written by Ross, you would find the full text of his power point presentation laying out the full Quranic justification for violent jihad, as well as other clear statements and indicators of jihadic sympathy.

Also, I see no reason why a terrorist act must be accompanied with specific demands. A simple desire to damage the polity by instilling fear and eliminating as much of the citizenry as possible would seem sufficient.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:03 am 9. Omar:

“I believe the argument about whether hasan is a terrorist is well and truly still open. It’s _possible_, but until we actually know his motive, or even what he’s said, he’s indistinguishable from someone who freaked out and went postal . . ”

________

You may not be fully aware of Hasan’s jihadic activities:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/major-hasans-mail-wait-join-afterlife/story?id=9130339

And that was just an update. Were you to read back further, you would find articles which include the full text of his power point presentation laying out specific Quranic justifications for violent jihad as well as other clear indicators of his terrorist sympathies.

Also, I see no reason why a terrorist attack must be accompanied with specific demands. A simple desire to damage the polity by instilling fear and distrust and eliminating as much of the citizenry as possible would seem to be sufficient.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:10 am 10. firefirefire:

RAH

Quack Quack

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:16 am 11. Lars Olfen:

5. RAH:

Taken together the acts muslims perpetrate on the US are intended to coerce and intimidate which meets the definition of terror. In case you forgot, the muslims started this with airline hijackings and hostage takings going back at least 40 years. The objective being the destruction of Western way of life. These are not crimes any more than the suicide bombings in Israel are crimes (I’m surprised they haven’t started that in the US).

Unfortunately, the politically correct feel good nattering class has brainwashed millions into believing otherwise.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:28 am 12. urbandd:

Hey, speaking of bulldozers, why don’t we bulldoze all the mosques in this country, ban the troglodytes’ “religion of peace,” and send them all back to the Arabian caliphate.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:42 am 13. Largs:

Rah wrote: “The perp of the Ft Hood shooting was not a terrorist he was traitor since he was a uniformed officer of the military.”

His actions were inspired by his religion. The fundamentalist Islamic has no loyalty to anything or anyone save Islam itself. Therefore it was not a traitorous act, nor was it an act of insanity. He was doing what his Imams preach he should do. To say that his religion played no part in his attack is self delusion.

The goal of Islam is to conquer the world. Islam is not a single country so we have no definitive army to face. One must consider them all “Soldiers of Allah”

The whole idea of terrorism is to terrorize. I know that,that sounds oversimplified and redundant, but if the average citizen is afraid to walk the streets for fear of being run down what else can you call it but an act of terror.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:53 am 14. Samson:

2. Terry:

I agree with what you have posted.

I think Islam has more then it’s share of these “breakdowns” I think the duplicity of the religion makes it very dangerous to malleable minds.

I don’t see anything positive in the religion or where the world is heading vis-a-via the political correctness that is controlling debate (or stifling it).

http://www.pbase.com/opinion/image/119810545

Nov 29, 2009 - 7:06 am 15. Cybergeezer:

1. Francis W. Porretto:

True: Previous civilizations had to resort to drastic measures to rid themselves of Islamic influence.
The U. S. is no different. The infestation requires the remedy.

Nov 29, 2009 - 7:15 am 16. Pragmatist:

The Mohammedans and their moonbat apologists on the left would have you believe you cannot be involved in Jihad unless you are part of Al Queda . That is BS the Mohammedan Taxi drivers refusing to take dogs or people with alcohol are making Jihad the Mohammedans who milk the social security system are making Jihad the Mohammedans who DEMAND separate swimming facilities are making jihad the Mohammedans who want to build the biggest Mosque in the world alongside the Olympic Stadium in London are making Jihad etc etc etc drip drip drip ad infinitum.

Nov 29, 2009 - 7:20 am 17. john from cinncinatti:

yes it seems there are only victims and perpetrators. when the nut jobs quickly claim the victim status we by default become the perps. therefore they the victim feels entitled to lash out at the one causing him/her pain. the Arabs are the worlds first victims because Ismael got kicked out of Abrahams house, and its all our fault. if we could solve that issue we could solve the Arab Palestinian/ Israel issue. we,the west, just have to spank them and send them to bed without their dinner.

Nov 29, 2009 - 7:36 am 18. George Bruce:

Yeah, right, and the 9-11 guys weren’t terrorists either. They were just airline passengers with an alternative viewpoint about the destination of the flight.

The real danger is the angry mobs of Catholics, Methodist and Mormons who are lynching innocent Muslims by the thousands every day. I imagine Maureen Dowd can see them.

Nov 29, 2009 - 8:09 am 19. gunner:

i’ve heard rumours that hasan may be paralysed for life, while its likely that some bleeding hearts may succeed in saving him from “danny deever drill” a long lifetime in a wheelchair, in the brig, might be a fitting end to his crimes, and at the end, finding that the “72 virgins” are a lie, there is only the eternal long night.

Nov 29, 2009 - 8:10 am 20. Fantom:

@11 Spot on Lars.

The fact is that muhamed was a terrorist. Those who would follow his ways can be no more than he.

Nov 29, 2009 - 8:16 am 21. Wolla Dalbo:

Has anyone writing here saying that these attacks against “unbelievers” by Muslims are just random acts by a solitary, disturbed loner “going postal,” or not necessarily motivated by Islam actually read the three fundamental texts of Islam—the Qur’an, the Hadiths (the Words and Deeds of the Prophet and his Companions) and the Sira (Ibn Ishaq’s biography of Muhammad)-to see what Muslims are taught? For if they had, they would know that Muslims are taught that bloody-handed Muhammad was the “Perfect man,” whose actions are to be emulated in all things, that the “unbelievers”—who the Qur’an tells Muslims are the subhuman “spawn of apes and pigs,” who obstinately deny the existence and commands of the one true God, Allah, and are, thus, accursed and doomed to burn in eternal fire and be eternally tormented–should be converted, enslaved, or killed “wherever you find them,” and that prosecuting holy war, Jihad, against such unbelievers is the highest thing a Muslim can aspire to; it is a holy act.

Understand this, and you understand that these eternal commands of Allah are always there to be discovered and re-discovered, that Muslims have had their designated targets very clearly pointed out for them, have been taught a very specific rage, and been encouraged to “kill them wherever they find them” as a religiously sanctioned, praiseworthy act, so that when—for whatever, or for no discernible reason at all—they decide to “go on Jihad”—we are their targets and, as Muslims destroy their targets, Muslims spread the terror that Islam uses to achieve its ultimate, Allah and Muhammad commanded, primary, fundamental task, which is the eternal war—the conversion, enslavement or death of all unbelievers–until Islam rules supreme over all the world and its peoples and “all is for Allah.”

Unless we understand this unpalatable truth in our bones and act accordingly, the death toll here in the U.S. (and overseas) will mount–and we will wander around, blinded by political correctness, afraid to face the truth and bewildered–blaming bad luck, randomness, or wondering what it was we could have done to draw such rage down upon ourselves.

It was not anything we did; it is who we are—unbelievers–and, as such, the chief obstacle to Islam’s devouring and domination of all the world.

Nov 29, 2009 - 8:22 am 22. Anonymous:

Its War, police action, intervention, prevention, peace-keeping mission; Its FEMA camps for Islamist.

Nov 29, 2009 - 8:30 am 23. blotto:

Matthew: “Just having an ideology doesn’t cut it.” Huh???!!! So will you give that same leniency to the maniac who murdered the abortion doctor: that he was not a crazed right wing lunatic? Will you give the same leniency to pedophile priests that their actions had nothing to do with Catholicism? How about the murders committed by the KKK?

So the 911 terrorists were not terrorists? Is that what you are saying? Get a grip. IF you have to go to these lengths to defend the indefensible then you are truly deluded.

He is obviously deranged so how can you determine what his motivation was? What if he lies and says, he was upset over Brett Favre playing???

So it ALL does come back to his ideology. What was KSM’s motivation?

By your definition and defense, we can never call terrorism terrorism.

Islamic terrorism is precisely terrorism because Islamic radicals completely follow the tenants of Islam and its call for jihad.

Hasan was an Islamic jihadist. And the shooting of the recuiters in AR and the killings noted by the author were also acts of terrorism. Just because they did not involve mass murders does not mean they were not terrorism. The killings all involved someone who was an ardent follower of Islam. End of story.

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:02 am 24. Wolla Dalbo:

Here is one compilation of some of the attacks by Muslims against “unbelievers,” in the U.S.–Jews first among them–over the last several years (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm), and here is a similar compilation, covering the almost 14,500 such terror attacks, just since 9/11, by Muslims against unbelievers (and, incidentally, also against Muslims who are insufficiently fundamentalist or who are just “collateral damage”) world wide (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) .

My suspicion is that, were the MSM and law enforcement officials—who, from the evidence, try to cover up such attacks and, especially, their true, Islamic motivation–to routinely report the full name, the religion of the terrorist, and all the significant details of the act of terrorism, most of us would have become much more aware by now that there have, in fact, been Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. preceding and after 9/11, and many more such Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. than we have been led to believe.

The fact that neither the police, federal officials or the MSM could find a religious motivation in the 2006 Muslim terrorist attack—with fatalities–against the Seattle Jewish Federation, and that in the very first chaotic hour or so of the Ft. Hood Jihadist terror attack—when nothing could be known for sure, including the number of attackers or victims, or the shooter’s identity or motivation–the FBI issued a statement assuring us all that “there was no terrorist connection” to this attack, and the massive denial about the true nature of this terrorist attack by a Muslim Jihadi that has and is being fostered by the MSM and the Obama Administration, and continues to this day, shows that this cover up by officials is not happenstance but policy.

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:12 am 25. Jettboy:

Americans get what they deserve. So long as the majority of the voting public continues to put people like Obama and the Terrorist deniers into office, then their deaths are on their own heads. I am luck enough to live in a part of the U.S. that if they tried this trick in my neck of the woods, they would be shot dead. I just don’t understand the lack of outrage.

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:23 am 26. another chuck:

Francis Porretto:

We have the will; our leaders haven’t. We have only to look at the hapless general Casey who spoke after the rampage at Ft Hood. Remember how he chirped away about “diversity” being the highest priority, higher even than the lives of his soldiers?

Yesterday the people of Switzerland gave their p-c political class the finger, voting in a national referendum to ban the further construction of Moslem minarets. We could do worse than follow their example.

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:31 am 27. wildman:

Just a couple of questions?
1. Who in the government authorized the INS to start bringing in muslims from some of the worst countries on the planet?
2. What, exactly, do these folks bring to the culture of America?

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:37 am 28. Abraham:

We in Israel have our disadvantages when it comes to fighting terrorism. When we try to prevent attacks with checkpoints on roads, we get a lot of international condemnation. When we try to put an end to years of rocket attacks on our civilian population, we get a lot of international condemnation. But we have an advantage I never appreciated before: When there is an attack, we don’t have to spend weeks wondering what happened.

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:39 am 29. TFR:

Don’t forget the Trolley Square shooting in Utah. The shooter was screaming “Allah-u-Akbar” while killing people.

Nov 29, 2009 - 10:24 am 30. Pragmatist:

Warning about hit-and-run jihad may sound like a laughable stretch of the imagination

Might? This whole article made me laugh mightily. Even if it were emblematic of some larger problem, you’re looking at three incidents in five years! And the last two were definitely insane! The fact that they referenced God in their lunacy has as much bearing on anything as the fact that other schizoids claim the CIA telepathically commanded them. Seriously, whoever you are one serious idiot.

Nov 29, 2009 - 10:31 am 31. Phranc:

It doesn’t matter how many examples of the wide spread war of islam vs. every one else in the world you will still have apologists and deniers like Pragmatist.

Nov 29, 2009 - 11:23 am 32. moho:

The Suburban Jihad Against Law Enforcement.

Americans have begun war against law enforcement officials according to the Associate Press:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h6HGmTEc_kIALqJfG0r_WSGGFGZgD9C9C90O1

Four police officers were shot and killed Sunday morning in what authorities called a targeted ambush at a coffee house in Washington state, a sheriff’s official said.

Pierce County Sheriff’s spokesman Ed Troyer told The News Tribune in Tacoma one or two gunmen burst into the Forza Coffee Co. and shot the four uniformed officers as they were working on their laptop computers, then fled the scene.

Troyer said investigators believe the officers were targeted, and it was not a robbery.

“It looks like a flat-out ambush,” Troyer told the newspaper.

The four officers were about to go to work, Troyer said. He said officers were looking for a male suspect who fled on foot, and “at this point we may be looking for another person.”…Last month, Seattle police officer Timothy Brenton was shot and killed Halloween night as he was sitting in a cruiser with trainee Britt Sweeney. Sweeney was grazed in the neck.

Christopher Monfort, 41, of suburban Tukwila, was charged in the shooting. Days after the shooting, Seattle detectives attempted to question Monfort at his residence. Police say that Monfort then ran from the detectives and tried to use a gun. The detective shot him.

The one thing that these shootings have in common is that the shooters were suburban residents and US citizens born in the United States. Are we witnessing a Suburban uprising against law enforcement?

Nov 29, 2009 - 11:28 am 33. billc:

I remember hearing a news report about the father killing his daughter in Texas. I actually could believe what I heard because they cover up the muslim connection to all of these crimes, Fort Hood being the latest. In the report, the female reporter actually said the father ran over his daughter because she wasn’t living up to “Iraqi values”. She completely covered up the actual “muslim values” that caused him to murder his daughter. This silliness has to stop.

Nov 29, 2009 - 12:24 pm 34. J.D.:

I think this entire discussion has missed the point. When we try to define terrorism as a criminal class, we run into the same quagmire of meaning that we get stuck in when we try to define a so called hate crime. Motive is not a viable method for classification, and in fact that whole can of worms is moot. When seventy two virgins (I wonder how that number was arrived at) are waiting in heaven, our enemy cares as little about how we define his crimes as he does about the punishment.

The proper response to this threat is first, drop the PC blinders and recognize that we are under attack domestically, and second to adopt the common sense approach of Israel and Switzerland; an armed and properly trained population capable of acting as our own first responders. No more of this “we can’t have guns on a plane, someone might get shot” nonsense. The political will to do this currently does not exist at any level of government. We must create it next November. If we don’t, we’re destined to repeat Mumbai a hundred times over.

Nov 29, 2009 - 12:53 pm 35. Wolla Dalbo:

For those who will probably show up here to divert attention and bleat that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” I offer three “inconvenient facts” that do not necessarily totally govern the actions of all Muslims, everywhere and at all times, but that should, nonetheless, make us “unbelievers” extremely wary, and force us to examine every statement and action by Muslims, and to not take them at face value, or to automatically just give Muslims—given their track record—the “benefit of the doubt.”

First, Islamic practice sanctions–indeed, commands in certain circumstances–that Muslims use lies (Takiyya) and/or half truths (Kitman) in their dealings with “unbelievers,” if by employing these deceptive tactics they can assure the well being, safety and success of individual Muslims or of Islam. Thus, according to Islam, any oaths that Muslims might swear to unbelievers or to unbeliever institutions, no matter how apparently sincerely or fervently Muslims do so–military oaths, for instance–oaths that clash with Islam, which recognizes no law, or nation, or allegiance, or God but Islam, Shari’a law, the Umma (the body of Muslim believers) and Allah–are not binding on Muslims. Therefore, nothing that Muslims might say to unbelievers can be relied on, or just assumed to be “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” To quote the eminent medieval Muslim scholar Ibn Kathir—who is still widely read and consulted in the Muslim world today–on Takiyya and unbelievers, “We smile at the face of some people, though our heart curses them”

One might also mention that Muslim apologists also have a whole standard arsenal of diversionary rhetoric techniques, one of which is the “Tu Quoque” fallacy i.e. “you did it too”; see Moho at #32 above.

Second, in light of Takiyya and Kitman above, it is not surprising that Muslims, when they are proselytizing (Da’wa), or explain the Qur’an and what it says and means to unbelievers, never want to mention the standard, central, essential Muslim tool of Quranic interpretation called “naskh” or abrogation. Simply stated, “abrogation” means that Muslim religious scholars have ruled that the harsh, xenophobic, bloodthirsty, warlike, chronologically later verses of the Qur’an, “received” by Muhammad from the angel Gabriel in the latter part of Muhammad’s prophetic career–when he lived at Medina after his and his follower’s flight (Hejira) from Mecca–abrogate, nullify and supersede the more amiable, liberal, pacifistic verses from earlier in Muhammad’s prophetic career at Mecca. Thus, when courting and trying to fool, confuse and reassure clueless unbelievers, Muslims point to the earlier abrogated Meccan verses, and try never to bring up the later, controlling verses from Medina, or to disclose the fact—known to all Muslims–that Muslims understand the later Medina verses abrogate the earlier Meccan verses.

Third, Muslim ideologues have developed an elaborate alternative universe of philosophy, logic and language to justify and cloak Islam’s predation and world conquering ambitions, ideology, and behavior. Thus, when Muslims claim to unbelievers that “Islam is a religion of Peace,” they neglect to point out that by many Muslim ideologue’s definition “Peace” will come about only when Islam has conquered all opposition, rules all the world, and “all is for Allah.” Similarly, when some Muslim spokesman says–after the latest Muslim terrorist attack–something like “Islam forbids attacks against innocent civilians,” gullible unbelievers need to know that Muslim thinkers argue that, since all unbelievers have committed the grave sin of not acknowledging and obeying Allah, unbelievers are not “innocent” at all but are, by definition, all “guilty,” and that since all citizens of the modern state—male and female, young and old (even babies), military or civilian—all contribute to such a state’s power and, thus, contribute to it’s war efforts—none are really “civilians.”

Knowing these facts enables us to decode what Muslims are telling us (and why), and to understand that what seems on the surface to be a reassuring message is, in fact, very much the opposite, and a much more ominous thing altogether.

It may not be pleasant or politically correct—and singing Kumbaya at the top of our lungs will not forever drown out the sounds of bombs going off, bullets whizzing by, and the ambulance sirens coming closer–but this is the grim reality that we must face, and to dismiss it will be fatal, perhaps for us personally, and definitely for Western civilization.

Nov 29, 2009 - 12:53 pm 36. Professor Guvinoff:

@Pragmatist, #30:

Your analysis is in fact rather unpragmatic, by its abortive character:

We easily fall in the trappings of denial, and therefore can just as easily reach the comfortable conclusion-by-default that Islamic thought could not possibly be fundamentally different from our familiar Judeo Christian paradigms. But in fact, Islamic thought defined itself by contrast with the Judeo Christian paradigms, from its very beginning!

The victims of these assaults by vehicle are innocent by our Judeo Christians standards, but guilty of apostasy by the jihadist’s standards. Getting down into a hole of accidental denial is one thing, and we can learn to climb out of it; Ignorance of Islam is also a curable condition: Just Google some of today’s scholars of Islam who express themselves in English, like Raymond Ibrahim, Daniel Pipes, Wafa Sultan, Aayan Hirsi Ali, Robert Spencer and others, and apply your pragmatic curiosity to their introductions to the topic, they are quite illuminating.

But there is a third obstacle on the path to a true pragmatic response to the increasingly common manifestations of jihadism by some muslims in our midst: cowardice. Overcoming cowardice is more difficult than extricating oneself from denial and ignorance, but it can also be done, once you know what the right response would be. Courage is most useful when practiced by pragmatists, because an act of courage is defined by a positive response to the realization of what is right.

Please, do not take a shortcut to your pragmatic pursuit. We need your earnestness as much as anyone else’s.

Nov 29, 2009 - 12:58 pm 37. Sherab Zangpo:

As The precious Leader of the Proletarian Revolution in America says:

“let’s not jump to conclusions”.

It’s only a few disgruntled muslims killing a few Americans, who had it coming, because they have…built too many cars.
That’s it !
it’s our fault !

Nov 29, 2009 - 1:28 pm 38. Will:

Wake up my friend’s,there are many way’s to kill us Infidel’s.

Nov 29, 2009 - 1:50 pm 39. Commuter:

36. Professor Guvinoff: wrote

“@Pragmatist, #30:…..”

I doubt that was the real Pragmatist.

Nov 29, 2009 - 2:56 pm 40. A Simple Guy:

It’s about time we introduce some SUV control. That’s obviously the problem.

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:00 pm 41. Nick:

Oh no, Muslims driving cars! Look out!! I couldn’t stop laughing when I read this article…do you people really believe this stuff?

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:02 pm 42. Matthew:

Randy:

“We don’t need to “actually know [the] motive” to declare a crime a “hate crime”. We simply assume the intent/motive”

Huh? That’s ridiculous. The WHOLE point of a hate crime is the motive. If you can just assume the motive without evidence, then you can declare anything you like as a hate crime. There has to be some sort of evidence. Likewise – how do you tell the difference between murder and manslaughter – just assume?

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:15 pm 43. Matthew:

blotto:

You’re having a bit of trouble focusing on what I actually wrote. I’ll see if I can help you out.

“So will you give that same leniency to the maniac who murdered the abortion doctor: that he was not a crazed right wing lunatic?”

But we KNOW he was a crazed right wing lunatic, but some have argued that he’s actually a crazed LEFT wing lunatic – make your own call. One way or another, he’s a lunatic with some sort of political leaning. But notice – I HAVEN’T called him a terrorist (and neither have you). This isn’t about someone being a bad/good guy, or being guilty, it’s about using the definition of terrorism according to what it actually means.

“Will you give the same leniency to pedophile priests that their actions had nothing to do with Catholicism? How about the murders committed by the KKK?”

I’m not suggesting that anybody get “leniency” for anything. But to address your examples: (1) priests are (I believe) actually LESS likely to abuse children than the general population – they just happen to attract a lot of attention these days. No, I’m not excusing them – string them up, for all I care. And I agree that the church itself is guilty of covering up the crimes, so I reckon it should pay. But the priests who abuse are still child abusers. (2) The KKK was definitely (and overtly) using fear to intimidate and coerce a civilian population – therefore, they were terrorists (Still are? Dunno)

“So the 911 terrorists were not terrorists?”

Yes, they were. They had a deliberate (and stated) political motive. They were quite clearly attempting to terrorise a civilian population to coerce US foreign policy. They were terrorists.

“IF you have to go to these lengths to defend the indefensible then you are truly deluded”

It’s quite obvious that I’m not defending anybody. Give it up.

“He is obviously deranged so how can you determine what his motivation was? What if he lies and says, he was upset over Brett Favre playing???”

But that’s kind of the point. Terrorism has a purpose. It’s SUPPOSED to send a message. When did the IRA ever say “oops, sorry – didn’t mean to do that”

“So it ALL does come back to his ideology. What was KSM’s motivation?”

That’s been well documented. Go look it up. US out of saudi, global caliphate, etc.

“By your definition and defense, we can never call terrorism terrorism”

Not at all. There’s plenty of terrorism.

“Islamic terrorism is precisely terrorism because Islamic radicals completely follow the tenants of Islam and its call for jihad”

Wrong on all counts.

“Hasan was an Islamic jihadist”

Possibly. But not necessarily a terrorist. They’re not the same thing.

“Just because they did not involve mass murders does not mean they were not terrorism”

I don’t think you’ve been reading very closely. Mass murder has nothing to do with it – go back and read my snipped of the patriot act.

“The killings all involved someone who was an ardent follower of Islam”

So killing while muslim makes it terrorism? That’s pretty much the definition that some have been using, but it’s not accurate. What about muslims serving in the US forces? Are they terrorists?

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:17 pm 44. Jettboy:

Moho, you forgot to mention the man was black. Of course, that just brings up he inconvenient anti-PC idea that black culture is violent and anti-law enforcement. Yes, its another American problem that is kept back from facing head-on because you want to “protect” a particular group or class.

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:23 pm 45. Dr. Dave:

We ignore the threat of Islam at our peril. We need immigration reform. That is, we must reform our ideas about who can immigrate to the United States. I believe we have a full complement of cab drivers and convenience store clerks by now. Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Off the top of my head I can’t think of ANY other major (or minor) religion that has as one of its core beliefs that it is not only OK to lie, steal, cheat and kill those who don’t share the same belief…but actually encourages it.

I think this would fall into the category described as “undesirable”. My sister once worked at a WIC office in the Detroit area. “Newcomers” from Muslim countries would already be signed up for welfare benefits before they got off the plane. They game the system for all it is worth.

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:28 pm 46. Pragmatist:

Moho at 32, I have to say that made me laugh. The logic being used here is absurd; its just as likely using that same logic that your Suburban Native-Born American Police Killing Death Cult is true as this jihad by car nuttiness…

Nov 29, 2009 - 3:32 pm 47. Banned by Huffpo:

@21:

In a nutshell! You nailed it; any non-Muslim is an Infidel and must be killed.

End of story.

Nov 29, 2009 - 4:29 pm 48. Banned by Huffpo:

@35. Wolla Dalbo:

This is a wonderfully succinct analysis of why infidels are fair game. Please post it everywhere you can.

Islam is a “religion” of death to anyone who is not a so-called “believer.”

Open season on non-moho’s, wherever they may be.

And you don’t even need a license . . . .

Nov 29, 2009 - 4:41 pm 49. Pragmatist:

Post # 16 is by me Pragmatist posts # 30 and 3 46 are not mine and that is patently obvious. Seems like we have a Mohammedan moron on the loose. Stand up MOHO take a bow.

Nov 29, 2009 - 5:11 pm 50. Commuter:

49. Pragmatist: wrote

“Post # 16 is by me Pragmatist posts # 30 and 3 46 are not mine and that is patently obvious. Seems like we have a Mohammedan moron on the loose. Stand up MOHO take a bow.”

Sort of obvious. On a couple of threads he’s sockpuppeting under other names or as anonymous to agree with himself and/or try to make it appear that other people here share his views. Even though he’s such a generic left tool, my despite for him is morphing into pity for him at this point. He must lead a sad and bleak life.

Nov 29, 2009 - 6:01 pm 51. nolan:

pragmatist, just refreshed my page and found it refreshing it wasn’t you!
Glad to have ‘ya back.
out

Nov 29, 2009 - 7:04 pm 52. Moho:

Pragmatist@16…lol, thanks. That story is even more serious than I previously suspected, as it appears that right-wing superstar Mike Huckabee commuted the cop-killing suspect’s sentence a few years back. That’s on top of the murderer/rapist he let go a few years, back…he murdered and raped another woman. Is there a Christian-Jihad-Prison angle, we’re missing here? Is the media covering it up to protect Republicans? And will we see Republican governor’s commuting more sentences so that the criminals can go on to become Christian-backed terrorists against law enforcement and women.

By the way…someone@49 seems to be impersonating you. From the anti-Islamic commments in his post, he could be any number of people who regularly post here. In fact, almost all of them. But his ridiculous use of the word Mohammedan as an insult, reminds me of a particularly retarded individual. Be careful, I recommend you always log in as anonymous.

Nov 29, 2009 - 7:46 pm 53. Promethea:

#35 Walla Dalbo . . .

You’re on a roll. I hope you’ll save your posts on this thread and re-post them whenever necessary.

Too many people don’t bother to find out what the Muslim religion actually supports. Being PC does not make one “nice.” It makes one ignorant, stupid, and dumb. Very few people even look at the Koran to see the many horrible things it calls for. It’s supposedly the word of Allah. Among the many crazy and vicious things one can find in the Koran, it also says that lying to the unbeliever (taqiyah) is OK.

Walla Dalbo, please continue to try to inform the public with your well-stated posts. Thank you!

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:17 pm 54. Marc Malone:

#43 Matthew – Normally, I disagree with your posts. I perceive a strong Leftist bent. However, most of this post was fairly logical.

I will take exception to the most important part, however. “So, killing while muslim makes it terrorism?” – No. Killing BECAUSE one is Muslim makes it terrorism. Terrorism is commanded by Mohammed. Even honor killings are terrorism, because it is meant to keep their own in line through fear. There is no free will in Islam.

This misunderstanding on your part makes most of your position, and arguments, invalid. Once you embrace this understanding, you will become more in agreement with your detractors. Do so. Come over to the Dark Side. Since you’re able to use logic, you belong with us.

Btw, I, too, would like to explain many things to Dana Perino… at length… and in many meetings… over wine….

Nov 29, 2009 - 9:38 pm 55. richard Rhodes:

Rah and Matthew it is just this kind of stupid thinking that helped lead us to 9/11. Hassan is a terrorist. He has been exposed in a lot of ways. People like you are dangerous. You find excuses for anything and anyone. Political correctness is a disease. It is way more dangerous than the swine flu, and has killed way more people.

Nov 29, 2009 - 11:32 pm 56. Gozer the Carpathian:

Just wondering, does every guy who blows himself up in Israel, Iraq, Afganistan, etc leave a note with demands and motive behind? I’m just wondering if every loon who blows themsevles up trying to kill infidels actually justifys it before they do it. Outwardly at least, you know leave nice notes saying, “I go to blow myself up to kill Americans because of their support of Israel” or some such?

Or do they just follow all their beliefs and indoctrination and blow themselves up? Just curious.

Nov 29, 2009 - 11:46 pm 57. aclay1:

Popal drive through San Franscisco also passed a large synagogue – he was a terrorist.

Nov 30, 2009 - 12:05 am 58. Matthew:

richard Rhodes:

All you have to do is state your reasoning and the facts you base it on, and you don’t NEED the aggro.

Just tell me how you can show that hasan was attempting to achieve a political outcome and you win. It’s that simple.

“Rah and Matthew it is just this kind of stupid thinking that helped lead us to 9/11″

Eh? No. I don’t think so. You’re just making stuff up.

“Hassan is a terrorist. He has been exposed in a lot of ways”

No, people keep SAYING he is. There’s just that one little problem, though – he isn’t. At least, not yet. Like I said, evidence is probably forthcoming and it could well prove I’m wrong. But right now, that evidence (about his motives) just isn’t available.

“People like you are dangerous. You find excuses for anything and anyone”

What am I excusing? Show me. How have I excused hasan?

“Political correctness is a disease. It is way more dangerous than the swine flu, and has killed way more people”

Well, swine flu hasn’t proved to be all that dangerous, so far. So that’s not really a killer comparison.

Marc Malone:

“Normally, I disagree with your posts”

Gosh! Why, thanks

“I perceive a strong Leftist bent”

Nyeah. You’d be surprised. I suspect I’m lenin, compared to most of you guys, but I only hand out on conservative sites to get a decent argument. I don’t even bother reading lefty sites. I’d say I’m a pragmatist.

“However, most of this post was fairly logical”

I think so too.

“No. Killing BECAUSE one is Muslim makes it terrorism”

We definitely disagree about that. People don’t do something “because they’re XXX”. Serbs didn’t kill Croats because they were christian, Saracens didn’t kill French because they were muslim. Religion per. se. has very little to do with causing real violence – scratch the surface and there’s always a real reason waiting just under the surface. Religion gets BLAMED for a lot of violence, sure. That’s just my opinion (and it’s not completely uninformed). Unfortunately for me, the bozos who do this cr8p are also very, very stupid – and they never explain why they do it, they just spout some scripture / maoist diatribe / hitler pseudo-quote, and that’s what gets in the papers. So I’m not going to get very far with that argument on its own.

The trouble with saying “he killed because he’s muslim” is that 1.5 billion muslims (i.e. pretty much all of them) prove otherwise. Just being a muslim clearly isn’t sufficient. 250 million muslims just north of australia (in indonesia) are my counterargument to most of the generalisations people make about muslims. They shook off a western-backed dictator, created a democracy from scratch and never looked back. It’s the world’s biggest muslim country and it basically disproves your claim. Does it have radicals? Sure. They’ve had quite a few acts of terrorism on their soil – but the perpetrators are extremely few, massively unpopular, and have to be taken in the context of all the other violence that indonesia has had to shake off over the last couple of decades (most of which has just been about territory and power). Chuck in malaysia for good measure – another stable democracy.

The problem the US faces isn’t islam – it’s middle-east politics. Unfortunately that’s a no-brainer, and doesn’t make anyone feel tall and strong when they say it, so all muslims cop it, wherever they are – just for being muslim.

Nov 30, 2009 - 12:53 am 59. Matthew:

Gozer the Carpathian:

The old false-dilemma trick, eh?

Why do people blow themselves up in places like israel? Sometimes it’s because they’re REALLY p1ssed off about something that happened to them or a family member. Don’t underestimate outrage. In some cases, the act is thoroughly justified in the mind of the perp.

Most of them aren’t like that though (at least, as far as I understand it) and this is the really nasty part. Certain sorts of creeps in palestine became quite good at picking off loner kids and indoctrinating them and screwing with their heads. Those videos they release (and there’s your answer by the way) aren’t just for show – those are recorded well before the event, and often used as leverage to shame kids into going through with what they’ve “promised” to do. Take a kid away from his support networks and really isolate him, feed him a lot of aggro, make him feel like rubbish, give him a big bucket of shame and fear and tell him that his only way out is to walk over there and press a button.

What makes it terrorism is that it’s a tactic, being used (usually by somebody else) to terrorize a civilian population in order to force their government’s hand on policy. If that component isn’t present, then it’s just violence. Sorry.

“Or do they just follow all their beliefs and indoctrination and blow themselves up? Just curious”

Beliefs, no. Indoctrination, yes.

Nov 30, 2009 - 1:08 am 60. Tristan Yates:

Don’t worry, moderate muslims will rise up and condemn these actions. Islam is a religion of peace, after all.

Nov 30, 2009 - 1:18 am 61. Pragmatist:

# 51 MOHO and bow he does the narcissist in him just cant resist it. LOL.

Nov 30, 2009 - 1:23 am 62. RufusT1951:

13. Largs:

Rah wrote: “The perp of the Ft Hood shooting was not a terrorist he was traitor since he was a uniformed officer of the military.”
His actions were inspired by his religion. The fundamentalist Islamic has no loyalty to anything or anyone save Islam itself. Therefore it was not a traitorous act, nor was it an act of insanity. He was doing what his Imams preach he should do. To say that his religion played no part in his attack is self delusion.
The goal of Islam is to conquer the world. Islam is not a single country so we have no definitive army to face. One must consider them all “Soldiers of Allah”
The whole idea of terrorism is to terrorize. I know that,that sounds oversimplified and redundant, but if the average citizen is afraid to walk the streets for fear of being run down what else can you call it but an act of terror.

Nov 29, 2009 – 6:53 am

21. Wolla Dalbo:

Has anyone writing here saying that these attacks against “unbelievers” by Muslims are just random acts by a solitary, disturbed loner “going postal,” or not necessarily motivated by Islam actually read the three fundamental texts of Islam—the Qur’an, the Hadiths (the Words and Deeds of the Prophet and his Companions) and the Sira (Ibn Ishaq’s biography of Muhammad)-to see what Muslims are taught? For if they had, they would know that Muslims are taught that bloody-handed Muhammad was the “Perfect man,” whose actions are to be emulated in all things, that the “unbelievers”—who the Qur’an tells Muslims are the subhuman “spawn of apes and pigs,” who obstinately deny the existence and commands of the one true God, Allah, and are, thus, accursed and doomed to burn in eternal fire and be eternally tormented–should be converted, enslaved, or killed “wherever you find them,” and that prosecuting holy war, Jihad, against such unbelievers is the highest thing a Muslim can aspire to; it is a holy act.
Understand this, and you understand that these eternal commands of Allah are always there to be discovered and re-discovered, that Muslims have had their designated targets very clearly pointed out for them, have been taught a very specific rage, and been encouraged to “kill them wherever they find them” as a religiously sanctioned, praiseworthy act, so that when—for whatever, or for no discernible reason at all—they decide to “go on Jihad”—we are their targets and, as Muslims destroy their targets, Muslims spread the terror that Islam uses to achieve its ultimate, Allah and Muhammad commanded, primary, fundamental task, which is the eternal war—the conversion, enslavement or death of all unbelievers–until Islam rules supreme over all the world and its peoples and “all is for Allah.”
Unless we understand this unpalatable truth in our bones and act accordingly, the death toll here in the U.S. (and overseas) will mount–and we will wander around, blinded by political correctness, afraid to face the truth and bewildered–blaming bad luck, randomness, or wondering what it was we could have done to draw such rage down upon ourselves.
It was not anything we did; it is who we are—unbelievers–and, as such, the chief obstacle to Islam’s devouring and domination of all the world.

Nov 29, 2009 – 8:22 am

24. Wolla Dalbo:

Here is one compilation of some of the attacks by Muslims against “unbelievers,” in the U.S.–Jews first among them–over the last several years (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm), and here is a similar compilation, covering the almost 14,500 such terror attacks, just since 9/11, by Muslims against unbelievers (and, incidentally, also against Muslims who are insufficiently fundamentalist or who are just “collateral damage”) world wide (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) .
My suspicion is that, were the MSM and law enforcement officials—who, from the evidence, try to cover up such attacks and, especially, their true, Islamic motivation–to routinely report the full name, the religion of the terrorist, and all the significant details of the act of terrorism, most of us would have become much more aware by now that there have, in fact, been Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. preceding and after 9/11, and many more such Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. than we have been led to believe.
The fact that neither the police, federal officials or the MSM could find a religious motivation in the 2006 Muslim terrorist attack—with fatalities–against the Seattle Jewish Federation, and that in the very first chaotic hour or so of the Ft. Hood Jihadist terror attack—when nothing could be known for sure, including the number of attackers or victims, or the shooter’s identity or motivation–the FBI issued a statement assuring us all that “there was no terrorist connection” to this attack, and the massive denial about the true nature of this terrorist attack by a Muslim Jihadi that has and is being fostered by the MSM and the Obama Administration, and continues to this day, shows that this cover up by officials is not happenstance but policy.

Nov 29, 2009 – 9:12 am

25. Jettboy:

Americans get what they deserve. So long as the majority of the voting public continues to put people like Obama and the Terrorist deniers into office, then their deaths are on their own heads. I am luck enough to live in a part of the U.S. that if they tried this trick in my neck of the woods, they would be shot dead. I just don’t understand the lack of outrage.

Nov 29, 2009 – 9:23 am

26. another chuck:

Francis Porretto:
We have the will; our leaders haven’t. We have only to look at the hapless general Casey who spoke after the rampage at Ft Hood. Remember how he chirped away about “diversity” being the highest priority, higher even than the lives of his soldiers?
Yesterday the people of Switzerland gave their p-c political class the finger, voting in a national referendum to ban the further construction of Moslem minarets. We could do worse than follow their example.

Nov 29, 2009 – 9:31 am
27. wildman:

Just a couple of questions?
1. Who in the government authorized the INS to start bringing in muslims from some of the worst countries on the planet?
2. What, exactly, do these folks bring to the culture of America?

Nov 29, 2009 – 9:37 am
28. Abraham:

We in Israel have our disadvantages when it comes to fighting terrorism. When we try to prevent attacks with checkpoints on roads, we get a lot of international condemnation. When we try to put an end to years of rocket attacks on our civilian population, we get a lot of international condemnation. But we have an advantage I never appreciated before: When there is an attack, we don’t have to spend weeks wondering what happened.

Nov 29, 2009 – 9:39 am

30. Pragmatist:

Warning about hit-and-run jihad may sound like a laughable stretch of the imagination
Might? This whole article made me laugh mightily. Even if it were emblematic of some larger problem, you’re looking at three incidents in five years! And the last two were definitely insane! The fact that they referenced God in their lunacy has as much bearing on anything as the fact that other schizoids claim the CIA telepathically commanded them. Seriously, whoever you are one serious idiot.

Nov 29, 2009 – 10:31 am
31. Phranc:

It doesn’t matter how many examples of the wide spread war of islam vs. every one else in the world you will still have apologists and deniers like Pragmatist.

Nov 29, 2009 – 11:23 am

33. billc:

I remember hearing a news report about the father killing his daughter in Texas. I actually could believe what I heard because they cover up the muslim connection to all of these crimes, Fort Hood being the latest. In the report, the female reporter actually said the father ran over his daughter because she wasn’t living up to “Iraqi values”. She completely covered up the actual “muslim values” that caused him to murder his daughter. This silliness has to stop.

Nov 29, 2009 – 12:24 pm
34. J.D.:

I think this entire discussion has missed the point. When we try to define terrorism as a criminal class, we run into the same quagmire of meaning that we get stuck in when we try to define a so called hate crime. Motive is not a viable method for classification, and in fact that whole can of worms is moot. When seventy two virgins (I wonder how that number was arrived at) are waiting in heaven, our enemy cares as little about how we define his crimes as he does about the punishment.
The proper response to this threat is first, drop the PC blinders and recognize that we are under attack domestically, and second to adopt the common sense approach of Israel and Switzerland; an armed and properly trained population capable of acting as our own first responders. No more of this “we can’t have guns on a plane, someone might get shot” nonsense. The political will to do this currently does not exist at any level of government. We must create it next November. If we don’t, we’re destined to repeat Mumbai a hundred times over.

Nov 29, 2009 – 12:53 pm

35. Wolla Dalbo:

For those who will probably show up here to divert attention and bleat that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” I offer three “inconvenient facts” that do not necessarily totally govern the actions of all Muslims, everywhere and at all times, but that should, nonetheless, make us “unbelievers” extremely wary, and force us to examine every statement and action by Muslims, and to not take them at face value, or to automatically just give Muslims—given their track record—the “benefit of the doubt.”
First, Islamic practice sanctions–indeed, commands in certain circumstances–that Muslims use lies (Takiyya) and/or half truths (Kitman) in their dealings with “unbelievers,” if by employing these deceptive tactics they can assure the well being, safety and success of individual Muslims or of Islam. Thus, according to Islam, any oaths that Muslims might swear to unbelievers or to unbeliever institutions, no matter how apparently sincerely or fervently Muslims do so–military oaths, for instance–oaths that clash with Islam, which recognizes no law, or nation, or allegiance, or God but Islam, Shari’a law, the Umma (the body of Muslim believers) and Allah–are not binding on Muslims. Therefore, nothing that Muslims might say to unbelievers can be relied on, or just assumed to be “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” To quote the eminent medieval Muslim scholar Ibn Kathir—who is still widely read and consulted in the Muslim world today–on Takiyya and unbelievers, “We smile at the face of some people, though our heart curses them”
One might also mention that Muslim apologists also have a whole standard arsenal of diversionary rhetoric techniques, one of which is the “Tu Quoque” fallacy i.e. “you did it too”; see Moho at #32 above.
Second, in light of Takiyya and Kitman above, it is not surprising that Muslims, when they are proselytizing (Da’wa), or explain the Qur’an and what it says and means to unbelievers, never want to mention the standard, central, essential Muslim tool of Quranic interpretation called “naskh” or abrogation. Simply stated, “abrogation” means that Muslim religious scholars have ruled that the harsh, xenophobic, bloodthirsty, warlike, chronologically later verses of the Qur’an, “received” by Muhammad from the angel Gabriel in the latter part of Muhammad’s prophetic career–when he lived at Medina after his and his follower’s flight (Hejira) from Mecca–abrogate, nullify and supersede the more amiable, liberal, pacifistic verses from earlier in Muhammad’s prophetic career at Mecca. Thus, when courting and trying to fool, confuse and reassure clueless unbelievers, Muslims point to the earlier abrogated Meccan verses, and try never to bring up the later, controlling verses from Medina, or to disclose the fact—known to all Muslims–that Muslims understand the later Medina verses abrogate the earlier Meccan verses.
Third, Muslim ideologues have developed an elaborate alternative universe of philosophy, logic and language to justify and cloak Islam’s predation and world conquering ambitions, ideology, and behavior. Thus, when Muslims claim to unbelievers that “Islam is a religion of Peace,” they neglect to point out that by many Muslim ideologue’s definition “Peace” will come about only when Islam has conquered all opposition, rules all the world, and “all is for Allah.” Similarly, when some Muslim spokesman says–after the latest Muslim terrorist attack–something like “Islam forbids attacks against innocent civilians,” gullible unbelievers need to know that Muslim thinkers argue that, since all unbelievers have committed the grave sin of not acknowledging and obeying Allah, unbelievers are not “innocent” at all but are, by definition, all “guilty,” and that since all citizens of the modern state—male and female, young and old (even babies), military or civilian—all contribute to such a state’s power and, thus, contribute to it’s war efforts—none are really “civilians.”
Knowing these facts enables us to decode what Muslims are telling us (and why), and to understand that what seems on the surface to be a reassuring message is, in fact, very much the opposite, and a much more ominous thing altogether.
It may not be pleasant or politically correct—and singing Kumbaya at the top of our lungs will not forever drown out the sounds of bombs going off, bullets whizzing by, and the ambulance sirens coming closer–but this is the grim reality that we must face, and to dismiss it will be fatal, perhaps for us personally, and definitely for Western civilization.

Nov 29, 2009 – 12:53 pm

45. Dr. Dave:

We ignore the threat of Islam at our peril. We need immigration reform. That is, we must reform our ideas about who can immigrate to the United States. I believe we have a full complement of cab drivers and convenience store clerks by now. Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Off the top of my head I can’t think of ANY other major (or minor) religion that has as one of its core beliefs that it is not only OK to lie, steal, cheat and kill those who don’t share the same belief…but actually encourages it.
I think this would fall into the category described as “undesirable”. My sister once worked at a WIC office in the Detroit area. “Newcomers” from Muslim countries would already be signed up for welfare benefits before they got off the plane. They game the system for all it is worth.

Nov 29, 2009 – 3:28 pm
#21, #35 Wolla Dalbo
Thank you for one of the best. clearest written “Islam, ‘The Religion of Peace’ for Idiots” I have ever had the privilege of reading.
To all other writers and readers, both past and future, if you have not read #21 and #35 PLEASE DO SO!!! Read them again so that what is being said becomes understood in it’s fullest. This “Religion” is, simply put, a LICENSE TO KILL YOU!!! Our country is about freedom and one of those freedoms, for those of you who don’t remember, is “of Religion”. This is NOT a religion, it is a CULT OF HATE!!! A hate directed, in whatever form, AT US, The True CITIZENS of This Country!!! Islam hates us and says, by their “religion”, that they are COMMANDED to KILL us!!! To this I have to agree with #33, billc, ” this silliness has to stop!!! I also agree with #45, Dr. Dave who says that “We ignore the threat of Islam at our peril. We need immigration reform. That is, we must reform our ideas about who can immigrate to the United States”. The problem though is as #25, Jettboy says, “Americans get what they deserve. So long as the majority of the voting public continues to put people like Obama and the Terrorist deniers into office, then their deaths are on their own heads. I am luck enough to live in a part of the U.S. that if they tried this trick in my neck of the woods, they would be shot dead. I just don’t understand the lack of outrage”. Thank you Jettboy, well said. He is absolutely correct. We vote these “People In Government” into their positions to represent us then we sit back and watch as these “People In Government” lie, cheat and steal away our rights, our freedoms, our constitution our way of life,…OUR COUNTRY!!! We sit back and watch as these “People In Government” ignore that which is obvious in the name of “political correctness”. This was put quite well by #28, Abraham when he said “We in Israel have our disadvantages when it comes to fighting terrorism. But we have an advantage I never appreciated before: When there is an attack, we don’t have to spend weeks wondering what happened. Does Abraham know our “People In Government” or what! So you ask, “What are we suppose to do? Our lives are literally it risk, our country is literally at risk from Islam. Our “People In Government” are deliberately ignoring facts presented to them daily about the absolute THREAT that Islam is to OUR COUNTRY!!!!! As # 15, Cybergeezer said, “True: Previous civilizations had to resort to drastic measures to rid themselves of Islamic influence. The U. S. is no different. The infestation requires the remedy”. That “REMEDY” needs to be: “The People In Government”, our “Representatives” who are to represent US, THE VOTING CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY, are ALL FIRED and will be replaced by American Citizens who WILL REPRESENT THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR!!!!! If this proves not drastic enough, if WE THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY don’t want to LOOSE OUR COUNTRY, it may come down to as #34, J.D. put it,”The proper response to this threat is first, drop the PC blinders and recognize that we are under attack domestically, and second to adopt the common sense approach of Israel and Switzerland; an armed and properly trained population capable of acting as our own first responders. No more of this “we can’t have guns on a plane, someone might get shot” nonsense. The political will to do this currently does not exist at any level of government. We must create it next November. If we don’t, we’re destined to repeat Mumbai a hundred times over”. We, the CITIZENS of this COUNTRY, need to unite NOW to protect what is OURS from Islam, an “ENEMY AMONGST US”!!! We need to unite now to protect what is OURS from OUR OWN “PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT” who show time and time again that their interests are not those of the people THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO REPRESENT but of THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS and that of their “GOOD OL BOY” buddies. IF WE DON’T UNITE NOW, WE WILL LOOSE FOREVER!!!

Nov 30, 2009 - 3:11 am 63. RufusT1951:

Sorry about the mess here. I couldn’t (and still don’t) understand what Pajamas Media was wanting from me when they said, “Your comment is awaiting moderation”. Again, sorry about the mess I made by submitting my comment.

Nov 30, 2009 - 3:37 am 64. JonathanInTelAviv:

This is a familiar phenomenon in Israel:

Jerusalem: 15 hurt as East Jerusalem Muslim drives car into crowd of soldiers
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/09/jerusalem-15-hurt-as-east-jerusalem-muslim-drives-car-into-crowd-of-soldiers.html

“He yelled Allahu Akbar and hit the gas”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/07/he-yelled-allahu-akbar-and-hit-the-gas.html

Arab Drives Bus Into Crowd, Killing 8 Israelis
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/15/world/arab-drives-bus-into-crowd-killing-8-israelis.html?pagewanted=all

Man who ran over 9-year-old on Yom Kippur convicted of manslaughter
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1103753.html

Nov 30, 2009 - 3:40 am 65. pragmatist:

Gozer:Just wondering, does every guy who blows himself up in Israel, Iraq, Afganistan, etc leave a note with demands and motive behind? I’m just wondering if every loon who blows themsevles up trying to kill infidels actually justifys it before they do it. Outwardly at least, you know leave nice notes saying, “I go to blow myself up to kill Americans because of their support of Israel” or some such?

You know, when I wonder something, I generally look it up, rather than ask the dumbest people on earth at PJM for the answer. Generally, suicide bombers are affiliated with local groups in those places you mentioned. Here’s how it works. The group supplies them with the equipment and after the fact, takes responsibility for the act. That way, their enemies know who to blame, and also know whose demands they ought to be considering. Sometimes, the bomber leaves a note or video for family members and community. Its been going on like this for a long time.

Here’s a suggestion. Start reading the paper. The very fact that you would ask this question–what many would consider the minimum level of understanding of conflicts in Iraq and Israel–indicates that you’re almost incapable of having a reasonable discussion about this topic because of your ignorance.

Nov 30, 2009 - 7:36 am 66. pragmatist:

Indeed, Jonathan in Tel Aviv, also a familiar event in Palestine:

30/04/2009 Israeli settler hit and run sees teen girl admitted to hospital
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article965

AL-KHALIL, (PIC)– An Israeli settler on Wednesday ran over the 8-year-old Palestinian child Islam Al-Ja’bari in Al-Khalil city [Hebron] and sped away while settlers south of Jenin city attacked a Palestinian man in his fifties and burnt his car.
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7k%2BcOd87MDI46m9rUxJEpMO%2Bi1s7TMiVl/TnxwkhYVG6zHU8X0mxhuG0h8t/Sh/shxz1USOTUMOJBWAwMKJ3i8zSuA1WYIkq1tq/kNEfBePVLYlUG5/A4CDNbnKMPfDMfhJYYYQ%3D

Two children were hit by settler cars and four were severely beaten by Israeli settlers in Hebron. In October, a two-year old girl was directly hit and run over by a settler car in Hebron
http://www.childrightsmonitor.org/newsletter.php?issue_id=2

Its probably the most common form of violence that settlers use to intimidate Palestinians. The only thing is that none of you give a sh%$ about it when it happens to Palestinians.

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:03 am 67. Bob Miller:

1. What exactly is being proposed here as the cure or preventative for jihad murder by vehicle? Anybody can get a license and many terrorists have no traceable criminal record.

2. In the old country, did these guys run people over with camels?

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:04 am 68. A Simple Guy:

I nominate post #35 by Wolla Dalbo for the “Best Comment” of this thread.

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:05 am 69. Wolla Dalbo:

Whenever they are reacting to the latest act of Muslim terrorism in the U.S.—Ft. Hood being the most recent example–groups like CAIR immediately disclaim any Muslim blame for this terrorist attack, by saying that this was the work of a nut, a loner, and not representative of Islam or of the vast majority of “the law-abiding Muslim community,” and then diverting the discussion away from the specific terrorist attack by saying that the blameless, law-abiding Muslim community is the victim of “Islamophobia,” is afraid of a violent “backlash,” and requests increased, special protection, and, thereafter, the discussion is now all about the need to protect the blameless Muslim community from such an obviously unwarranted backlash.

While it is true that most Muslims in the U.S. are not active terrorists, they have been taught* and they play a vital, essential role in the Jihad and in Islam’s plan to conquer and rule the world, because they are the “peaceful” arm of Jihad and conquest, the point men, the scouts and colonists, a source of economic & political power, funding, intelligence and cover for the Jihad here and abroad; the opening wedge through which Islam attempts to subvert the United States, and it is by their efforts, their unrelenting pressure and agitation—political, economic, legal–for “accommodations” to Islamic law and custom, that Islam will slowly roll back American law, culture, custom and religion and–if successful–replace it with the ways of Islam and Shari’a law, and it is by their silence after each Muslim terrorist attack that the U.S. Muslim community is condemned; their silence is support for Jihad.

The “Peaceful” Jihad is already well underway in the United States.

How many Americans know of the de facto Muslim only prayer rooms springing up on college campuses, and at airports, the special Muslim religious foot washing facilities (Wudu) for Muslims–often built with public funds—starting to be found on campuses and airports too, the special hours starting to appear when gyms and pools are closed to all but Muslim women, the new Islamic financial instruments banks are starting to offer, the Bint Jbeil (Bint Jbeil is a Hezbollah stronghold on the Lebanese border with Israel, and was the scene of the some of most fierce fighting between Israeli military forces and Hezbollah in the 2006 Lebanese war) Cultural Center in Dearborn, Michigan–built with taxpayers money–where the discussion is reportedly often of Jihad and raising money for it.

How many Americans know that there are now two Muslim members of Congress, one of whom recently went on the Hajji, an all expenses trip paid for by the “Muslim American Society of Minnesota,” an organization reportedly founded by the Muslim Brotherhood? How many Americans know that the Saudis have funded and essentially control the majority of some 2,000 Muslim Mosques and religious organizations in the U.S., 80% of which have been estimated by one visiting Imam to be fundamentalist in nature?

How many Americans are aware that since the mid-1970s the Saudis have spent at least $200 million dollars that we know of, and probably a hell of a lot more we don’t know of—to endow chairs of Middle Eastern Studies or support existing departments or scholars, to create scholarships, to found Muslim and Middle Eastern Studies centers and departments at dozens of the most prestigious and influential U.S. universities—Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Yale and Georgetown, to name just a few–purchasing major influence over the U.S. Middle Eastern studies community—in research, teaching and publishing–and that American Middle East scholars—educated at schools already influenced by Saudi money and Wahabist ideology–had better toe the Saudi favored Wahabi line about the Qur’an and Muhammad, the Jihad, Muslim history, Terrorism, the Middle East, the Palestinians and Israel–if they hope to get a university position, publish their research, receive honors and speaking engagements, or achieve tenure? It is these “Middle East scholars” that our government, the MSM, the business community, our intelligence community and military rely on for their information.

How many Americans know that it is these Saudi funded, Wahabi influenced Mosques that have taught and “certified” all of the Imams in the U.S. military, and all the Imams serving in the U.S. prison system—a wonderful recruiting ground for Islam.

The Muslim Brotherhood (the Ikhwan) that, arguably, is the root out of which all modern Muslim terrorist movements have grown, had a 1991 strategic plan—which involved setting up a myriad of Muslim front groups in order to aid in subverting the United States–that was found and seized by federal prosecutors and—without objection to its authenticity—entered into evidence at the recent Holy Land Foundation terrorist funding trial, the key part of which said:

“The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions.”

Among the 100 or so “un-indicted co-conspirators” in the indictment—individuals and organizations—were CAIR and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA).

* Among the teaching materials supplied by the Saudi government to Mosques in the U.S. and to the Islamic Saudi Academy in Fairfax, VA were instructions to Muslims on how to “erect a wall of resentment against all unbelievers” and to regard themselves as scouts “on a mission behind enemy lines” (http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/testimony/2.pdf) and (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/01/some-american-mosques-carry-extremist-tracts-study-says.html).

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:06 am 70. moho:

Wolla Dalbo. I can see why people like you around here. Your ability to warp information to provide the platform for guiltless bigotry for your people is admirable.

This is what you said:

While it is true that most Muslims in the U.S. are not active terrorists, they have been taught* and they play a vital, essential role in the Jihad and in Islam’s plan to conquer and rule the world

From the very link you supplied. Let’s forget for a minute that the testimony comes from a right-wing think tank, not an investigation by the judiciary:

This study did not attempt any general survey of American mosques.
And, as the Center’s website states in the electronic version of the report, “We have made
no determination that these mosques endorsed any of these materials cited in these reports,
or were even aware of their presence.”

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:13 am 71. Paul -Indiana:

#35. I wonder why Obama came to mind while reading your post.

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:49 am 72. Wolla Dalbo:

Those who are interested might want to look at the text of the full Freedom House report on the 200 Saudi textbooks they were able to gather and their content. Somehow, I don’t think that it was easy to acquire them by, say, an obvious “unbeliever” just walking into the local Mosque, walking up to it’s Imam, and asking him for copies (http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/special_report/45.pdf) .

I find laughable and totally unbelievable the excuse that these Saudi printed and supplied textbooks and Qur’ans were just sitting around in a dusty pile, at these Saudi funded and run Mosques, and that no one even realized they were there or used them.

Nov 30, 2009 - 8:57 am 73. kochevnik:

Actually illegal aliens are causing the greatest death on US roads. But that doesn’t fit Ryan Mauro’s bigoted screed. There have been as many deaths caused by illegals right on the avenue of my place as listed in this article for deaths nationwide.

Nov 30, 2009 - 9:04 am 74. A Simple Guy:

Response to #70 by Moho.

This is a typical “ignore the message but ridicule the messenger” tactic. Honest people never use this tactic.

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:05 am 75. Marc Malone:

#70 moho – The government hasn’t investigated it, so therefore, it’s suspect? Translated: It’s only true if the government says it is? Holy crap! I know Leftists love and trust big government, but this…?

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:23 am 76. moho:

Translated: It’s only true if the government says it is? Holy crap! I know Leftists love and trust big government,

You’ve skipped several steps in logic here. A. I didn’t say that the government’s investigation eliminates suspicion of the information. I said that a Freedom House investigation on its face has as much validity as a Moho House one. Indeed, that was not the main point in the first place. For those who understand English that was: the report itself contradicted Walla Dalbo’s point. Freedom House did not seek to imply that their investigation proved:

they have been taught* and they play a vital, essential role in the Jihad and in Islam’s plan to conquer and rule the world

They quite clearly meant to state that their findings had no bearing on Mosques as a whole, and could not be used to make generalizations about them, as Walla, your hero did. I wonder when you look in the mirror if you’re ever honest with yourself about how your beliefs mostly rest on self-gratifying delusions. I doubt it; but if you do, my heart goes out to you.

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:29 am 77. moho:

A simple guy. You are one dumb monkey.

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:29 am 78. Marc Malone:

#58 Matthew – I shall accept that you’re not Leftist, based on the idea that you are using some logic. So, we shall just disagree on underlying facts, which means that we cannot come to an agreement.

IMO, Islam teaches terrorism as a necessary part of jihad. It is GOOD in their minds. ALL jihadis are terrorists. It’s like soldiers carrying grenades. It is part of their arsenal. Allahu Akhbar is the terrorist’s war-cry.

Hasan was a self-declared Soldier of Allah. He issued the war-cry. The act itself was not terrorism, per se, as he was striking out against soldiers, enemy combatants. Besides killing his enemy, it does have the additional benefit of sowing terror. It’s one more thing against which we have to defend. Attacking the homeland far behind the lines creates uncertainty stemming from fear: Terrorism’s purpose.

So, yeah, besides being treason, it’s purpose was terrorism. The result was terror. So, ipso facto, it was terrorism.

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:36 am 79. A Simple Guy:

#77 Moho: You illustrate my point perfectly.

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:38 am 80. moho:

Simpleton:This is a typical “ignore the message but ridicule the messenger” tactic. Honest people never use this tactic.

This was your point. Can you explain how pointing out your obvious lack of intellectual tools proves this? Or are you simply attacking the messenger? Your point is absurd, and implies a dearth of intelligence. Noting such impugns you as messenger long after the message has already been dealt with.

Nov 30, 2009 - 11:13 am 81. moho:

IMO, Islam teaches terrorism as a necessary part of jihad. It is GOOD in their minds. ALL jihadis are terrorists. It’s like soldiers carrying grenades.

Are you implying that all soldiers carrying grenades are like Jihadists, and that therefore, all soldiers are terrorists? That’s the only point a rationale person can squeeze from your tortured thinking process.

Nov 30, 2009 - 11:14 am 82. Mr Lucky:

70. moho.

“I can see why people like you around here. Your ability to warp information to provide the platform for guiltless bigotry for your people is admirable.”

Yeah Pee Wee moho, you do admire warped information. How’s the Pee Wee moho in the mirror? Is he agreeing too?

“Let’s forget for a minute that the testimony comes from a right-wing think tank, not an investigation by the judiciary…”

Sure Pee Wee moho. And your have the whole court system wrapped up in that Inconvenient Truth that you attempt to handle Now and Then.

Seen any good movies lately Pee Wee moho? Van Jones, where? When? You know him Pee Wee?

Nov 30, 2009 - 12:02 pm 83. Cory:

They all want to party like it’s 799.

Nov 30, 2009 - 12:15 pm 84. pragmatist:

Mr. Lucky. I have to protest, you seem to be using a lot of terms I do. This is easily proven, considering my medical history. My doctor says that my advanced aphasia produces a compulsion to communicate in neologisms–made up words, similar to what toddlers and pre-schoolers use in absence of primary language skills. Its almost as if we’re the same person.

Nov 30, 2009 - 12:21 pm 85. Matthew:

Marc Malone:

I suspect that evidence is eventually going to come to light that supports your position. Unfortunately, it’s not something I think you’ll be able to cheer about.

Lets just a agree that it was a sh1tty thing to have happened.

Time to find another topic, I think

Nov 30, 2009 - 1:53 pm 86. scythe:

Why do we keep letting these people into the country? We can’t live without them. Seem we can’t live with them. Until we wake up and push them out we will have much to fear. This is the first I have heard of this type of killing. Now just another thing to worry about when crossing a busy street. If I jumped back when I saw a middle eastern man at the wheel would I be accused of profing? I guess I should just stand there so he won’t feel bad, right?

Nov 30, 2009 - 2:49 pm 87. Matthew:

scythe: So … why are you standing in the middle of a busy street?

Nov 30, 2009 - 7:58 pm 88. Rampaging Manatee:

You failed to mention:
* Older people
* Obese
* 16-24 y/o female texters
* Jagermeister connoseurs
and
* Most drivers from Ohio and Ontario
These people have had a much longer running jihad against us.

FoxNews reports the CIA is currently profiling obese Canadian women living in Ohio coming home from the bars. None of us are safe until we invade and occupy Canada, Ohio, all bars, pubs, and bingo parlors.

Good article ……………. NOT! LOL.

Nov 30, 2009 - 10:17 pm 89. Anon:

Post #88:

You failed to mention:
* Older people
* Obese
* 16-24 y/o female texters
* Jagermeister connoseurs
and
* Most drivers from Ohio and Ontario
These people have had a much longer running jihad against us.

If there is no motive, there is no murder.

Dec 1, 2009 - 10:27 am 90. kimm:

I live just outside of Rochester. The incident was on the news for a few days…sort of. Then it faded away. Of course the news casts became more and more PC until that point.

For those who don’t believe that he made those commments, he did. And it was reported a few times until all of a sudden he then became “just some nut who ran over a bunch of people”.

Dec 1, 2009 - 12:58 pm 91. Wolla Dalbo:

Moho at # 32 tried the old Muslim apologist “Tu Quoque” routine, by citing what he thought was a terrorist type attack by a non-Muslim to illustrate that “we do it too.”

However, as people dig deeper, it is becoming obvious that this cop killer Clemmons had connections to an anti-White Nation of Islam offshoot and may, in fact, have joined NOI in prison, so it was a Muslim inspired terrorist attack after all (http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/12/black-muslim-group-celebrates-brother-martyr-maurice-clemmons/).

Dec 3, 2009 - 6:40 am 92. hoolah:

Islam is pure evil to the core. islam is not a religion but a political movement to achieve global dominance. Show me a churhc or a hindu temple or a jewish temple in saudia arabia. Go to Egypt and see how they deal with the Coptic Christains, the egyptians treat them like animals, burn down their chruches at every riot and they dont allow new chruches to be build, infact you have to ask permission from the president of egypt to build a church. Remind you, Egypt was a Coptic Christain Country before Islam took over with the sword and now coptic christains are a minority in their own country. I Guess the Swiss have realized the danger soon…..

In Turkey, they have taken Hagia Sofia Church and turned it to a Mosque, then into a museum. Still they will not give back Hagia Sofia to be a church again. Muslims are hypocrates. Turkey has a mission to wipe off all churches and convert them into secular museums and thus will elimanate the christains populations.

Christains are not allowed to be christains in middle-east, period. Now muslims shout. Give me a church, hindu temple, jewish temple, buddist temple or any other temple in the heart of Mecca or Medina and then I will voice my dis-taste for the swiss vote.

http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.thethirdjihad.com

Dec 3, 2009 - 9:25 am 93. Tam:

Everybody knows that it’s not terrorism unless the perp in question had an Al Qaeda membership card in their wallet, left a copy of their orders signed by Osama Bin Ladin on their dresser, were dressed in a “Jihadworld” tee shirt, and had the melted remains of an official Little Martyr’s Club decoder ring found on their charred finger.

Unless each and every one of those criteria is met, you can scream “Allahu akhbar!” ’til you’re blue in the face while mowing down infidels at the mall food court, and it ain’t terrorism, Achmed.

Dec 4, 2009 - 10:44 am 94. vinnie:

That’s why I stay away from people who drive cars. Also you forgot to mention anthrax and the Washington sniper,

Dec 16, 2009 - 12:34 am