17 Comments

1. WhistleBlower:

INDISCRETIONS MY FOOT
——————–
“Twisted serendipity aside, those looking for new insights into the man, or the reasons for his indiscretions, will come away frustrated.”

Won’t they ever learn? If you are inclined to kinky
“indiscretions”, don’t go into a profession where you are constantly in the public eye or hold a public trust.

That means you have no business being a “pastor” of a huge church, a governor of a state or a US senator, lines of work that have recently and memorably landed holders of such positions in hot water.

It’s similar to what happens when Wall Streeters get caught in financial scams of one sort or another. Almost every day, the financial pages of the print media have a story on someone “getting caught” for this, that or the other. The WSJouranl is particularly good at this.

What makes me laugh is that these jerks have a look of surprise (!) when they’re hauled off to the calaboose, like, you know, did they really catch me? Did I really do something so wrong?

As far as the quote above, the phrase “…the reasons for his indiscretions…” is really beyond the pale.

The REASON for his indiscretion is that this “man of God” deliberately sought out and practiced what he wanted. He knew very well what he was doing. It wasn’t like “the devil” suddenly filled him with evil urges or something. There is no “indiscretion” about it.

It would be more of an “indiscretion” if preacher-man had had sex with another woman. With another man? That’s not indiscretion….that’s looking into the gutter and happily jumping in. A “male prostitute”? Lemme repeat that: a “male prostitute”? Gee, that’s as bad as an “airport toilet”.

The other laughable thing about this sort of incident is that the “wives” are like totally “unaware” of any of this. It boogles the mind that you could live with someone for years, have their children and not be aware of this “dark side” of your spouse.

In the past, whenever I happen upon these turkeys preaching on TV, I’m left flabbergasted that people, by the millions, actually believe in, send money to and laud to the heavens these modern-day hucksters and snake-oil medicine men. You can tell just by looking at them, with their hysterical histrionics, their painted up and jewel-bedecked wives that the whole thing is an act.

If there was ever a “work of the devil”, these “parsons”, “pastors”, whatever you want to call them, are number one on the list.

Because this is a public forum, I have kept my language as clean as possible. Were we to discuss this in person, I assure you my delivery would be quite different and I wouldn’t “mince” any words.

Jan 29, 2009 - 5:32 am 2. deguello:

Hey that’s easty:Become a Democrat,and denounce his detractors as Republicans!

Jan 29, 2009 - 5:40 am 3. trangbang68:

I’ve got to think that as a liberal , Pelosi sympathizes with Haggard not as a failed Christian in need of redemption, but as a closeted homosexual in turmoil because of anti homosexual bigotry inherent in the church. As long as he is ambivalent toward his sexuality and doesn’t call it sin, he’ll have friends on the left. Haggard’s “unshakable faith” if genuine should lead him to a place of humility and repentance not the therapist’s couch. At the conclusion of the matter, Haggard will likely kick Christianity to the curb and claim to have found true liberty in being the person God went him to be. Which God is the question.

Jan 29, 2009 - 6:05 am 4. trangbang68:

The person God meant him to be.

Jan 29, 2009 - 6:07 am 5. Ace:

This proves that this perverted creep is a bigger phony than previously suspected.

Why make a video of yourself for national consumption?

Ego. Money. More male hookers. Rejoin the gravy train.

Jan 29, 2009 - 8:04 am 6. mghuloum:

Q: How Does a Pastor Survive a Sex Scandal?
A: It is true when they say that the flesh is week. Normally I’d say something to the effect that “Those with houses of glass, all of us,……”. But it is also tempting to say that he starts with a stupid wife and some gullible parishioners, but it ain’t that simple either….Ditto for others, like Senator Vitter (of hooker fame), but his jury will not sit before 2010. On the other hand Bill (a k a Bubba) had a very smart wife, maybe she was smart enough to keep him off her back…
In recent years the icons of the lost have been falling like flies…who is next, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, Britney, Bill O’Reilly, or Rush Limbaugh? (The last two have already had mini moral lapses).
Speaking of icons: where you people keeping Joe the Plumber. In some undisclosed location?

Jan 29, 2009 - 8:26 am 7. mghuloum:

addenda: week=weak

Jan 29, 2009 - 8:29 am 8. I agree Whistleblower:

Thank you whistleblower for writing exactly what I was thinking and more. I saw this guy on some morning show today and I couldn’t even believe what I was watching….or that anyone could possibly buy any of this guy’s BS. He is a hypocrite to say the least…and I don’t understand how his wife could possibly stay with him….although I imagine since she is sticking with him she must have her own issues to deal with. It seems like both of them are in denial.

Jan 29, 2009 - 9:38 am 9. Leatherneck:

Jim Baker, another so called pastor, called old Ted from prison. He asked Ted if whores could be saved. Ted answered, “Yes Jim, whores can be saved.” Jim replied, ” Then save me one Ted.”

Jan 29, 2009 - 12:42 pm 10. Dave:

Whistleblower brings up some great points…but to simply bash the man as hypocrite and throw him onto the trash heap of other past examples of human failure and weaknesses is simply too easy…and I think that may be what Pelosi was after…to find the “hidden” human “everyman” behind the glaring
faults and shortcomings.

That she DIDN’T ask the hard questions, and DIDN’T try to bore her way into the core of the man’s psyche is a credit to her and NOT a negative.

Sure…we may have all WISHED she would have…for then we could either condemn the man as being so “not like us” and/or be so revolted as to see Haggard as the disgraced pervert we knew he was all along…that it would satisfy our inner sanctimonious nerve to finally see it in black and white.

But, alas…life is not so simple, and neither are human beings.

We ALL struggle with some sort of inner demons, things we wished we didn’t do or things that control our actions or inaction. Addictions or “diseases”, call it what you want…it’s only when it’s revealed in a man who was supposed to be “above all that” that we are shocked and revolted.

But we shouldn’t be all that surprised. There’s a part of a Ted Haggard in all of us…we just aren’t up there preaching and railing about it. So in that sense, yes, Haggard IS a bigger failure…but then…

A wiser man than I said it best:

“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Jan 29, 2009 - 4:23 pm 11. newton:

I think Haggart’s tale should be a lesson to anyone, including the young, considering a career in the ministry. Trust God and let Him guide you in that respect, prepare yourself for it, and all of that. But be wise and have a backup plan, just in case.

A backup plan?!?

Yes. I have met pastors in my lifetime who have been, generally, totally dedicated to their ministries and churches, and I totally commend that. But I know at least of two who earned secular degrees. The pastor at my last church (I moved to a different location, so we have to look for a new church) has a bachelors in Engineering, but he was Youth Pastor for years before he became the full-time pastor of the congregation. No, nothing wrong has happened to him. Hope nothing bad happens to him or his family. But at least he has something to fall back on if something happens.

There was also another pastor that I knew when I was a teenager. He had arrived to my church (a different one) after it had endured a couple of years without one, after a nasty congregation split-up. He was young, married with one toddler son, very interested in our youth group, and a great guy to get along with. He also had earned a master’s from Bob Jones University, after having earned a bachelors in Business Admin. elsewhere. He was with us for only two and a half years. What happened?

The “official story” was that he had a falling out with the elders of the congregation. At least, that’s what I heard over the course of several years, even from my grandmother. Imagine my shock when I found out, years later, that the true reason for leaving our church was that he had a sexual affair with the (young) wife of one of our deacons… the same deacon who had befriended my now husband when he was yet single and “unsaved”! Surprisingly, that couple never divorced: I guess he forgave her, then had yet another child, and left the area for a different post in Japan. (The deacon was an Army officer)

And believe it or not, neither did the pastor and his wife. The last thing I heard of him was that he is now a respected banker. At least, he had something to fall back on when things went sour pursuing the ministry.

Ted Haggart, however, never thought that his life could go terribly wrong. That was his biggest mistake. Nowadays, without a career to fall back on, he’s as errant as a pilgrim, with his wife as his only source of solace. He can’t even get a job at a supermarket without being background-checked and then tossed out like a rotten cabbage. I believe he knew he had some serious demons to deal with before he ever entered the ministry, but he chose not to deal with them before he was deeply into church matters. His failure was so spectacular that those people he thought would support him and help him during his recovery have abandoned him. If he had a secular degree to fall back on, he would have done a lot more for himself and his family, and perhaps helped him gain some forgotten self-respect, not to mention a better and cleaner relationship with God.

I have heard over the years that those involved in the ministry should “live off the ministry”. But the reality is that not everyone involved as ministers or pastors have that one job exclusively. Some have other jobs apart from it, some of them full-time and even influential. Even the Apostle Paul worked as a tent-maker while preaching around the Mediterranean.

Yes, if you feel that you should go into the ministry full-time, by all means go ahead. God will bless you. But consider the “minor” to your “major” also. God will not mind you doing that. In fact, He will probably want you to do that anyway, since not everyone who enters into the ministry lasts a lifetime in it. And yes, the higher you fly, the farther you fall, if you fall into the sin of pride.

(Full disclosure: I never heard of Haggard before that scandal of his. Never heard anything he preached or said. He may have been influential at some time in the past, but I don’t follow men, not even big-time pastors or preachers. I rather follow God instead.)

Jan 29, 2009 - 8:10 pm 12. myth buster:

He should not be a pastor anywhere because pastors must be above reproach. If he has repented, let him back into the church, but not the pulpit.

Jan 29, 2009 - 8:33 pm 13. reproachable:

Above reproach, myth buster? That’s a lot to ask of any mere human. I agree Ted Haggard should not be a pastor again, but please don’t expect pastors to be faultless.

My theory about pastors and priests who get caught in same-sex scandals is that their homosexual orientation is the actual reason they went into the ministry in the first place. They felt their orientation was a sin and that they needed to be super-godly to overcome it. How better to put aside temptation than to lead a life fully devoted to God? And for Catholic priests, how better to avoid dealing with sexual impulses than to embrace celibacy–never have sex, never have a problem with sex. Except the energy it takes to put up a false front takes away the energy needed to resist sexual temptation, and next thing you know you’re in the news for being a scandal.

Anyway, I would agree with Newton that anyone going into the pastorate should have a plan B. As myth buster’s comment indicates, the expectations of your parishioners will be completely unrealistic, and you’ll never live up to them. Even if you’re just a basic, vanilla heterosexual living faithfully with your spouse you may end up on the street for not being dynamic enough, not bringing the crowds in, not connecting with the youth, or just becoming boring to the people in the pews.

Yes, I’m a devout Christian, but after nearly half a century, I’ve seen that members and clergy all bring their brokenness along with them into the church. That wouldn’t be so bad, in fact it’s what the church should be about, but we seem to have this drive that we have keep pretending everything’s wonderful because we’re Christians, until we just can’t keep up the pretense anymore and the performance falls apart. Then the world looks at us and says, “What hypocrites.”

Jan 29, 2009 - 9:54 pm 14. Ronnie Schreiber:

Would Alexandra Pelosi even have a career as a filmmaker if she wasn’t the daughter and granddaughter of powerful politicians? The level of nepotism in Washington, how the children and spouses of politicians get advantages not available to average Americans, stinks to high heaven. It seems that the worst offenders are liberal Democrats. They’re all for unequal opportunity when it’s their own spawn that are getting the perks.

Jan 30, 2009 - 12:48 am 15. Ratatosk:

Would Alexandra Pelosi even have a career as a filmmaker if she wasn’t the daughter and granddaughter of powerful politicians?

Nah, I mean, she only has a degree from Annenberg… I can’t imagine why she’d be qualified to be a documentary filmmaker, obviously they just gave her the go ahead to get the ol’ Pastor in a partisan move… Her’ 2000 documentary on GWB’s campaign was probably just setting this up. Gosh Ronnie Schreiber, you’re so smart!

Jan 30, 2009 - 10:58 am 16. Northern Light:

#14 Ronnie Schreiber
“The level of nepotism, how the children and spouses of politicians get advantages not available to average Americans, stinks to high Heaven.”

George Bush agrees, nepotism is the worst thing he has ever seen.

Hillary Clinton thinks so too.

Jan 31, 2009 - 11:47 am 17. Robert:

Q: How Does a Pastor Survive a Sex Scandal?
A: Prevention (not to get in it) by…
(1) having a fulfilling sex monogomous sex life with an open, honest, and faithful partner, and
(2) not being exposed to our sex-saturated modern culture.

Feb 3, 2009 - 9:35 am