Pajamas Media

88 Comments

1. Ed Wallis:

Obama’s statement,

“I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody”

WAS the first message.

As the author notes, the media jumped to the defense of Obama almost immediately in the form of character asassination. The predictable modus operandi being, “it’s the messenger, that big, bad Joe who’s to blame for this!”

Deflection and projection. Americans yawned.

Quite rightly, McCain quickly seized the issue to inform Americans loud and clear about Obama’s raison d’etre and its threatening implications to the future of all Americans and our country.

AND NOW THERE ARE TWO MESSAGES.

heh.

Oct 24, 2008 - 3:09 am 2. SAF:

While all you say may be true the typical voter who perhaps voted republican in the last election is overwhelmed by the mismanagement of the Bush administration and the republicans. While much of the current economic debacle can be laid at the foot of Barney Frank and other democrats they have neatly put the blame on the republicans with the unfailing help of the MSM.

If Obama’s dubious associations haven’t gotten people scratching their heads the media’s pile on of Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin won’t do it either. As you pointed out it is mostly the MSM that has lambasted Joe, not Obama. This is one of the clever tactics Obama has used on McCain. He lets the able and all to willing MSM do his dirty work.

While I would like McCain to win I believe you are grasping at straws here. Your logic is fine, the times are different.

Oct 24, 2008 - 3:17 am 3. maurice:

I always wonder, when faced with this kind of attitude, whether the leftist would have the stones to repeat such condescending comments in the middle of an empty field, one-on-one with their target, no witnesses anywhere nearby.

Not bloody likely.

Oct 24, 2008 - 3:41 am 4. susim:

What can be done? Obumbo’s got this in the bank. MSM will get their darling. American’s will pay higher taxes for more government intrusion and control. Our enemys are licking their chops at the prospect of B. Hussain O. Good luck all.

We’re screwed!

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:09 am 5. tom:

Bill Clinton would have never insulted a middle class american
Obama looks down his nose and them and us

Joe the plumber was his “Dukakis in the tank” moment

very crystalizing and defining

voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, W.Va and Virginia will tip this republican

you can be Obama will kick allowing this to happen (actually be taped)
but it’s his arrogance and elitism that was his downfall

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:14 am 6. tom:

sory it’s early (two garbelled sentences)

Obama looks down his nose at them and us

you can bet Obama will kick himself for allowing this to happen

between Joe the plumber and Joe the Biden, Obama is toatus supremus Nov 4

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:17 am 7. How ‘Joe the Plumber’ Could Cost Obama the Election | PoliticsMuch.com:

[...] orginally posted at PajamasMedia.com. We claim no responsibility for this content. Please click on the link above to read and comment on [...]

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:19 am 8. How ‘Joe the Plumber’ Could Cost Obama the Election | PoliticsMuch.com:

[...] orginally posted at PajamasMedia.com. We claim no responsibility for this content. Please click on the link above to read and comment on [...]

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:19 am 9. Bob:

“The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water.” John William Gardner 10/8/1912 – 2/16/2002.

Obama’s “spread the wealth” philosophy is no match for the American “spread the opportunity and grow the wealth” philosophy. Maybe voters will realize this in time to avoid the disaster of an Obama presidency.

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:04 am 10. Boris:

“The unintended consequence of their conduct was to make her the candidate in this year’s race that voters most want to see and hear.”

Have you been asleep since the conventions?

“How many plumbers do you know who make a quarter million dollars a year?” is the equivalent of a racial slur now. You guys need some unbunchable panties.

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:29 am 11. Robert Hurley:

I see that Obama’s poll numbers are really falling because of this

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:33 am 12. RE:

This election is like watching a slow motion train wreck.

When I look at Obama, I see the death of the American Spirit. I see the triumph of the entitlement/victim mentality over traditional American values. It signifies that society’s non-producers will have gained the political upper hand over the producers. America will soon fall into mediocrity. The parasites will weaken and eventually kill the host. European cynicism, resignation, and melancholy towards life will become the norm.

It’s as simple as that. The spirit of the American Revolution and the Founding Fathers is nowhere to be found in the modern Democrat Party. The nation – and the world – stand to suffer greatly for it.

But for now, Obama supporters are excited and ecstatic. They really believe they are getting something great and wonderful. But in reality they are losing what really matters most. One day they may come to regret their tremendous forfeit of something for nothing. They won’t know what they had until they lose it.

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:38 am 13. Sandra M:

Jack Kemp once over heard a lefty Democrat trying a “tax the rich” appeal on two United Auto Workers. They didn’t bite, because they had dreams too of starting their own business and becoming rich someday. This is still in the minds of many “the land of opportunity.”

With respect to the pessism of some people on this board, the Republican National Committee has failed to impress on people who pay little attention to politics but who will vote that

THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE BEEN IN DEMOCRAT HANDS FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS.

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:43 am 14. Bob:

You spread manure; wealth is earned. I think most working Americans understand that.

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:44 am 15. Fred:

I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS vote Republican. Reason? I am a big believer in democracy. I also believe that a handfull of UNELECTED liberal media elites do not have a right to choose our leadership. This is a direct assault on our democracy. If Obama becomes our next president, it will not be because he won an election, it will be because he was “appointed” by the MSM.

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:47 am 16. Kevin71:

“tom:
Bill Clinton would have never insulted a middle class american Obama looks down his nose and them and us”

Seriously? Monica Lewinsky. Linda Tripp. Juanita Broderick. Kathleen Willey. Paula Jones. Gennifer Flowers. Shall I go on? Anytime any of these women came forward about anything to do with Clinton, they were attacked and smeared by Clinton, his cronies, and the media.

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:06 am 17. R a Z o R:

I am Joe the plumber .

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:15 am 18. Joseph Marshall:

You have got to be kidding! If you aren’t,you are kidding yourself. Joe The Plumber is history. The news cycle is already through Sarah Palin’s wardrobe and and is now up to Republican recriminations over a botched campaign. Up next: Sarah Palin’s “policy speech”.

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:26 am 19. Get Real:

Nice strategy republicans. Perhaps you should make Joe your RNC chair. You guys are going from super majority to laughingstock and you wonder why. Good thing tho, we wont see you guys back in the majority for at least another 20 years. BTW do you know who is going to cost John McCain the election? Barack Obama (Sarah Palin and the fake Mav stuff didn’t help either)

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:31 am 20. RE:

We are at a turning point:

“America will last until the populace discovers that it can vote for itself largesse out of the public treasury.” — Alexis De Tocqueville

(largesse means ‘goodies’ )

Which way will America ago?

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:42 am 21. Vas is Das Kapital:

If Joe is all that’s left of America… look out.

Have you ever wondered why the race is so close? Should it be if it’s about choosing between evil and good? Were that the case it would be a black and white choice that even the most politically color blind could discern when voting. Choosing between shades of gray is much more confusing and the election is close precisely because it is about choosing between degrees of evil.

There’s neither a Ronald Reagan wear-the-principle-pants alternative to Obama nor an Ayn Rand styled candidate like Ron Paul in the race today. If there were, Obama would have been finished.

In fact, it’s astonishing that the “right wing” voter ignored Paul’s absolute stances on eliminating taxes, re-grounding the dollar in gold, and withdrawing militarily from the planet as “radical, unelectable, alienating extremism” rather than moral, philosophical, and political fearlessness in the face of your opponent.

This will all be distorted history one day, and it shows you just how far left most of the right really is.

Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts. What we need to do is seed several hundred radiation resistant time capsules of Ayn Rand’s and Ron Paul’s works about the planet for our grandchildren’s grandchildren to unearth, to give them a chance where most of us have failed.

Sorry, Joe.

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:50 am 22. Jarhead:

“Bill Clinton would have never insulted a middle class…”

Telling them they are getting a tax cut during the debates, then raising their taxes retroactively 5 months later was pretty insulting. An insult that Obama seems intent on repeating.

Oct 24, 2008 - 6:55 am 23. Rotwang:

“I am Joe the Plumber” is an inspiring rallying cry for every American who’s never had to hire a plumber, pay $150 an hour for $30 worth of PVC pipe and liquid joint sealant, or clean up the carpets afterward.

For everyone else, it is like hearing “I am Joe the Auditor” or “I am Joe the Auto Mechanic.”

Please don’t overestimate the public’s love for “Everyman” plumbers.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:10 am 24. Ratatosk:

I’m so glad I come to PJMedia for the real news… its obvious that all the polls are backing the claims in this article.

Hell, Obama is only up by 10 points now.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:25 am 25. SiouxLady:

Maurice #3, It sounds like Boris#10 has the werewithal to repeat condescending remarks about Joe the Plumber to his face. Could you set it up? I’ll pay you to let me be a witness.

Bob#9, Love that quote.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:27 am 26. Ed Wallis:

I liked the comparison with “macaca” and Allen.

It really IS funny to see Leftists – who are normally less-than-in-full-control of reason anyway – losing it over Obama himself telling the truth and sputtering on the keyboard.

Mr. J. Marshall, lose your medication today?
While I respect the choices you make based on the tragic reality of your personal condition…the choice of just HAVING TO “cling to government” (drugs? medical coverage? don’t know, don’t care, yet I wish you speedy and full recovery) – as ZerObama similarly alluded to others with their Bibles and guns – THE REST OF US CHOOSE NOT to suffer a servile future due to your personal situation.
THAT IS WHY MANY HERE SUPPORT THE AMERICA AS JOHN McCAIN ENVISIONS IT.

Some may legitimately spout off about libertarianism here and there, but most “objectors” here (”the usual suspects”…errr, trolls) seem to be helpless in responding to
A SIMPLE, CLEAR QUESTION AND ITS DAMNING ANSWER FROM A CANDIDATE FOR THE PRESIDENCY.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:31 am 27. Laura:

#12 – Well said and succinct. You never know what you have until it’s gone.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:46 am 28. always right:

The sorry spectacle of the Obama campaign and the mainstream media engaging in a joint effort to wage a smear campaign against private citizen…..

I said it before, and I will emphasize again. Obama himself could not claim innocence in this ugly incident.

He and Biden led the charge of ridiculing a private citizen the day following his debate with McCain, in which McCain used “Joe the Plumber” metaphore to Obama’s disadvantage.

Instead of explaining his ’spread the wealth’ policy as he was not able to do in the debate, he made ‘Joe’ and ‘Plumber’ the focal points. Obama camp and their surrogates took the cue from their leader and ran wild with it.

Oct 24, 2008 - 8:22 am 29. Kath:

I agree that this will be his downfall.

Oct 24, 2008 - 8:51 am 30. OLDPUPPYMAX:

In 1776, George III was neither hated nor feared by the American public. It was parliament which held that honor. Should the MSM actually succeed in electing the Messiah, a real contempt may come into being for this self-proclaimed monarch and supreme ruler.

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:04 am 31. Keith:

My Dad’s plumbing business (residential plumbing) makes in excess of a million a year, he drives a BMW and just bought a vacation house in Phoenix in addition to the lakefront cabin he already owns. So Joe the Plumber with a little hard work could beat the $250,000 he dreams about.

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:07 am 32. cfbleachers:

I wrote a few comments, one to Roger Kimball and one to Phyllis Chesler, in which I voiced concern about a)the conspiracy of silence in the media and b)the state of traditional liberalism being consumed by the ruthlessness of leftism. I believed these were loosely connected in some way, but now I have come to believe that we are witnessing the full blown development of craniopagus parasiticus , where a parasitic twin head with an undeveloped body (radical extreme leftism) is attached to the fully formed body of the entrenched media…and begins killing it.

The entrenched media, (I still, to this day, recoil at granting them the “mainstream” affirmation…they are anything but mainstream and it insults the overwhelming majority of the public who don’t trust them, don’t believe them, don’t like them to allow them to carry that banner. Doing so reinforces a fraud and I will not be a part of such subliminal mencacity) have reached new depths in behavior during this election and shed the last skin of their slithering existence.

The have been posing as champions of traditional liberalism, but that was a ruse. They are imposters who have been a parasite eating away at traditional liberalism and Joe Lieberman and Hillary Clinton…and even Bill Clinton had to be put under the microscope for the parasites to become visible.

I freely admit, I bought the charade lock, stock and barrel. I was fooled by the Audacity of Hype that fueled the enthusiasm behind Senator Obama’s campaign. They were liberal, he was liberal…it was expected that they would be in the tank for him. Not fair, of course, but not unexpected either. The Audacity of Hype was predictably going to ignore the scant resume’, the vacuum of executive achievement, the utter void in bi-partisan accomplishment, the lack of any meaningful legislation…this was to be expected.

It was not wholly unexpected that they would remain rather passively incurious about a felon on trial for numerous financial scams and the openly suspect manner in which they combined to obtain the land and home in Hyde Park.

But the tingling down their legs, belied the rapacious appetite for consuming middle America whole. They have behaved despicably, a thousandfold more morally reprehsible than was predicted.

Joe the Plumber made a huge personal mistake. He came in contact with the flesh eating disease that is our current information stream. He dared to reach out and touch the body of that dying 4th estate and gave host to their invasion into his life. Let us be clear on this, he did absolutely nothing to deserve the treatment he has received at the hands of our diseased and corrupt 4th estate. EVERY American of honor and decency should flock to his side to protect him from further abuse. The man was approached and he asked a question. Period.

Whether that question was “representative” of his feelings, his thoughts or his future dreams is irrelevant.

The entrenched media parasites are no longer merely passive cheerleaders for one side, they are invading the province of our system of self-governance and destroying its foundation. First they blurred the line, then they crossed the line, they have now erased the line. The Audacity of Hype has morphed into the Audacity of Hate. They hate middle America. They hate Joe the Plumber. They hate Governor Palin and unless you adopt their leftist creed, they hate you.

When I wrote a comment to Phyllis a little while ago, I said that reluctance to condemn the behaviors of “liberals” when they act badly, may cause us to look back and one day condemn ourselves. I see now that the fear of condemning “liberals” is not the issue. Traditional liberalism is dead. The parasitic leftists consumed it.

Liberalism died when their was almost universal silence related to the mounting evidence of anti-Israel, anti-Jewish team building assembling as we speak. Liberalsm died when the anti-Semitic Wright and the anti-Semitic Pfleger and the anti-Semitic Farrakhan and the blame Israel crowd of Brzezinski, McPeak, Power, Bonior, Malley, Lake, Rice, Kurtzer built a campfire and began toasting to the Dreams of Our Fatwah…and nobody spoke a word for fear of being called “not liberal enough”…or worse.

Liberalism died when it became more important to hold onto the facade and trappings of being “accepted” as a “liberal” than it was to hold onto the principles of being a liberal.

The “little guy” was no longer championed, he was lampooned and ridiculed and picked on. Joe the Plumber was not the object of defense, he was the target of derision.

Cold blooded murderers and plotters, conspirators and champions of murder are lionized as “heroes” and their nefarious acts are watered down. When did traditional liberals begin to believe that a dissenting point of view should be murdered out existence?

When did traditional liberals begin to believe that our universities and public libraries should hide evidence from us, in order to expand the debate?

When did traditional liberals begin to believe that “calls to action” should be imposed to shout down a point of view?

When did traditional liberals believe that voter fraud and massive foreign donations should steal the integrity of our process of self-governance?

They didn’t. They simply died of lack of heart. Traditional liberals died, because they did not have the courage, moral fiber, decency and integrity to stand up and say “this isn’t right, this doesn’t represent me”. They would not condemn for fear of not being “accepted” and they chose “acceptance” over honor.

Joe Biden said “stick with us, you are going to think we are wrong”…I have a feeling we can all join in the toast with the Dreams of Our Fatwah crowd very soon. Who will we condemn then, if not ourselves?

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:07 am 33. schnargley:

You all are hoping against all hope….. Joe the Plumber will not rescue capitalism. It is a failed system. Joe will come to his senses and realize it is better to just let Pres. Obama send him free checks in the mail rather than him trying to start a business when the pie is too small anyway. It is time to turn the economy over to people who can manage it professionally for the benefit of everyone, like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. They’ve been doing a good job so far, bu can you imagine what they’ll do when the Repugs are totally crushed and Pres. Obama can reign with unfettered hand?

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:08 am 34. tom:

hey i stand corrected

Bill CLinton would have never smeared the common man in public with his own elitism – he projected himself aligned more with the common man

He would cover up a female discretion with denial and smears at all costs, and also promise no new taxes and turn around and tax us

but he would never have trashed a plumber for asking a question.

and I don’t even like William Jefferson Clinton

as for the polls ask President’s Kerry and Gore how reliable they are. They can console BO on Nov 5th

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:10 am 35. Jim Baker:

20 RE:,

Sorry, but it looks like we have already done it. Now we are in the inevitable desperation mode. We are broke and we are spending money as fast as possible to buy votes and we will elect the guy who promises to spend the most money that we don’t have. It is now life, liberty, and the pursuit of other people’s money and property. Hell, 35% of the population don’t even pay federal income taxes but they all get a say in what gets done with the taxes the rest of us pay.
Obama could be our next President because there aren’t enough Americans who still have an understanding of freedom. He is a damned communist and that means nothing to most folks.

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:29 am 36. Fisher:

Just curious. How in the hell does MSNBC know how much Joe made in 2006? Or I guess the better question is how did they get he tax return information.

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:38 am 37. Believer:

It’s become clear to me that the American voter can send a message to the BIASED MSM that we won’t take it anymore.

They won’t stop their bias so long as it continues to work for them.

So let them know at the polls. Vote for McCain/Palin and send Obama – and the MSM – a CLEAR DEFEAT.

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:42 am 38. mnotaro:

FRED: “If Obama becomes our next president, it will not be because he won an election, it will be because he was “appointed” by the MSM.”

This is the best way I have heard this election described! The MSM is full of liberal left wing illuminati and they have so much power and influence over the public, McCain is doomed…the MSM refuses to report on the news if it doesn’t benefit Obama’s camp, therefore keeping this election from being fair to busy Americans who turn on the tv at night to “catch up” and aren’t getting a realistic account of the news!

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:51 am 39. Just for fun : mariosechi.net:

[...] Pajamas Media Iran Kidnaps Another American CitizenDirty Harry Makes Anti-Cop MoviePOR (Pelosi-Obama-Reid) Congress the Most Profligate of Bush Years‘Drill Here, Drill Now’ Helped End Russia-Georgia WarHow ‘Joe the Plumber’ Could Cost Obama the Election [...]

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:56 am 40. Joseph Downing:

What seems to be forgotten (or ignored) in this discussion is that when McCain talked about Joe the Plumber in the last presidential debate, he wasn’t really talking about Samuel “Joe” Wurzelbacher. He was talking about all of us. Joe the Plumber is a proxy for every ordinary American with dreams and aspirations.

When the Obama camp or the MSM ridicule Joe the Plumber, they ridicule all of us.

Oct 24, 2008 - 10:33 am 41. cfbleachers:

I apologize for reprinting this, the other one simply had too many typos and I am unable to edit it.

I wrote a few comments, one to Roger Kimball and one to Phyllis Chesler, in which I voiced concern about a)the conspiracy of silence in the media and b)the state of traditional liberalism being consumed by the ruthlessness of leftism. I previously believed these were loosely connected in some way, but now I have come to believe that we are witnessing the full blown development of craniopagus parasiticus , where a parasitic twin head with an undeveloped body (radical extreme leftism) is attached to the fully formed body of the entrenched media…and begins killing it.

The entrenched media, (I still, to this day, recoil at granting them the “mainstream” affirmation…they are anything but mainstream and it insults the overwhelming majority of the public who don’t trust them, don’t believe them, don’t like them, to allow them to carry that banner. Doing so reinforces a fraud and I will not be a part of such subliminal mendacity) have reached new depths in behavior during this election and have shed the last skin of their slithering existence.

They have been posing as champions of traditional liberalism, but that was a ruse. They are imposters who have been parasites eating away at traditional liberalism… and Joe Lieberman and Hillary Clinton…and even Bill Clinton had to be put under the microscope for the parasites to become visible.

I freely admit, I have, until recently, bought the charade lock, stock and barrel. I was fooled by the Audacity of Hype that fueled the enthusiasm behind Senator Obama’s campaign. They were liberal, he was liberal…it was expected that they would be in the tank for him. Not fair, of course, but not unexpected either. The Audacity of Hype was predictably going to ignore the scant resume’, the vacuum of executive achievement, the utter void in bi-partisan accomplishment, the lack of any meaningful legislation…this was to be expected.

It was not wholly unexpected that they would remain rather passively incurious about a felon on trial for numerous financial scams and the openly suspect manner in which the scheme to obtain the land and home in Hyde Park was executed.

But the tingling down their legs, belied the rapacious appetite for consuming middle America whole. They have behaved despicably, a thousandfold more morally reprehensible than was predicted. They have shattered all illusions of objectivity, they have obliterated any pretense of ethical decency.

Joe the Plumber made a huge personal mistake. He inadvertantly came in contact with the flesh eating disease that is our current information stream. Then, he dared to reach out and touch that dying entrenchment sewer and by doing so…served as host to their invasion into the body of his life. Let us be clear on this, he did absolutely nothing to deserve the treatment he has received at the hands of our diseased and corrupt 4th estate. EVERY American of honor and decency should flock to his side to protect him from further abuse. The man was approached and he asked a question. Period.

Whether that question was “representative” of his feelings, his thoughts or his future dreams is irrelevant.

The entrenched media parasites are no longer merely passive cheerleaders for one side, they are invading the province of our system of self-governance and destroying its foundation. First they blurred the line, then they crossed the line, they have now erased the line. The Audacity of Hype has morphed into the Audacity of Hate. They hate middle America. They hate Joe the Plumber. They hate Governor Palin and unless you adopt their leftist creed, they hate you.

When I wrote a comment to Phyllis a little while ago, I said that reluctance to condemn the behaviors of “liberals” when they act badly, may cause us to look back and one day condemn ourselves. I see now that the fear of condemning “liberals” is not the issue. Traditional liberalism is dead. The parasitic leftists consumed it.

Liberalism died when there was almost universal silence related to the mounting evidence of anti-Israel, anti-Jewish team building assembling behind the scenes. Liberalism died when the anti-Semitic rants of Wright and the anti-Semitic “good riddances” of Pfleger and the anti-Semitic “Judaism is a gutter religion” of Farrakhan, and the “Hymietown” and “Zionists” “are going to be put out to pasture” of Rev. Jackson, (whose son is part of the campaign, even if he himself is not “officially” titled within it)…. and the blame Israel crowd of Brzezinski, McPeak, Power, Bonior, Malley, Lake, Rice, Kurtzer built a campfire and began toasting to the Dreams of Our Fatwah…and nobody spoke a word for fear of being called “not liberal enough”…or worse.

Liberalism died when it became more important to hold onto the facade and trappings of being “accepted” as a “liberal” than it was to hold onto the principles of being a liberal.

The “little guy” was no longer championed, he was lampooned and ridiculed and picked on. Joe the Plumber was not the object of defense, he was the target of derision. When there was not a single cry of “that’s wrong, that’s not representative of me”…liberalism died a little more.

Cold blooded murderers and plotters, conspirators and champions of murder are lionized as “heroes” and their nefarious acts are watered down. When did traditional liberals begin to believe that a dissenting point of view should be murdered out existence? That’s the day liberalism died a little more.

When did traditional liberals begin to believe that our universities and public libraries should hide evidence from us, in order to suppress the debate? Liberalism on campus is dead and gone.

When did traditional liberals begin to believe that “calls to action” should be imposed upon courteous debaters in order to shout down a point of view? When did jackboot intimidation become a hallmark of liberal expression? The day liberalism died.

When did traditional liberals believe that voter fraud and massive foreign donations should steal the integrity of our process of self-governance? When did stealing votes become a liberal tradition? The day liberalism died. When did fraudulent donations and foreign interference with our election process become a liberal standard? The day liberalism died.

When did all the traditional liberals start believing in totalitarian behavior? They didn’t. They simply died of lack of heart. Traditional liberals died, because they did not have the courage, moral fiber, decency and integrity to stand up and say “this isn’t right, this doesn’t represent me”. They would not condemn for fear of not being “accepted” and they chose “acceptance” over honor. In order to be seen as a liberal rather than to act
like one.

Joe Biden said “stick with us, you are going to think we are wrong”…I have a feeling we can all join in the toast with the Dreams of Our Fatwah crowd very soon. Who will we condemn then, if not ourselves?

Oct 24, 2008 - 10:43 am 42. Robert Hurley:

Police sources tell KDKA that a campaign worker has now confessed to making up a story that a mugger attacked her and cut the letter “B” in her face after seeing her McCain bumper sticker [...]

Investigators did say that they received photos from the ATM machine and “the photographs were verified as not being the victim making the transaction.”

This afternoon, a Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Todd confessed to making up the story.

The commander added that Todd will face charges; but police have not commented on what those charges will be.

Oct 24, 2008 - 11:14 am 43. Chaz706:

Here I am, hearing more about 150k spent on clothing by the RNC than 150+k given by one ‘John Galt’ to the Obama Campaign from an old lady’s credit card…

‘Move along’ they tell me ‘move along’…

“To what end?” I asked.

years later, the same phrase ‘move along’ they say, and into the public showers of my re-education camp I go, only to realize something isn’t right.

Is this air I’m breathing?

Oct 24, 2008 - 11:48 am 44. cedarford:

Obama – “I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody”

I think the problem for Republican Social Darwinists is 80-85% of the public agrees with that statement, while the remainder, mostly Right-Wingers interpret it as “code” for socialism. (At the same time as 15% of the public believes calling Obama “socialist” is code for “racism”.)

America is witnessing the destruction of the middle class through concentration of wealth and all new productivity gains into the hands of a wealthy few. On a scale not seen since the eve of the Great Depression. Through Ruling Elites outsourcing good jobs and growing government enough so that secure gov’t jobs made up for losses of the private sector’s “decent jobs”.

And the screwing of average Americans was compounded in tax policy. As Warren Buffet has said, the rich get richer because they paid good money to rig the tax code to their gain. Resulting in each dollar Warren makes being 80% disposable income to freely spend or invest, while only 25% of his secretary’s pay is disposable income after her total taxes and basic living expenses are deducted. And Buffet said he plays his tax load straight….while other wealthy, through shelters, creative accounting, and paper “losses” can shield nearly 100% of their investment wealth creation and get over 90% of each dollar they get as income as disposable income.
Whereas each item a prole owns is taxed as personal property and anything they invest in savings accounts has it’s income fully taxed.

Now Republicans can argue that the rich pay most of the taxes, but that is because they control most the wealth…and they still pay less total taxes on each dollar they get than workers. Same deal as in Latin American and African countries run by economic oligarchies.

THe problem for Republicans is that while 80% of Americans cherish hard work and despise parasitism – they are losing a significant part of that group – hispanics, the young, Reagan Democrats – back to the Democrats. Because they also believe that the wealth a mutually interdependent society creates should be spread around to create a stable middle class and one in which the workers who help create wealth in a firm are commensurately rewarded – not just the Owner or the execs at the top.

The Republican counter that it goes contrary of the dream of exploited workers seeing all their productivity contribution to the bottom line going into the Owners wallet should accept it and dream of one day being an Owner themselves ripping off and exploiting their own workforce has worn very thin. As wealth disparities have grown, more and more jobs are threatened, worker debt has exploded, and 7 major financial scandals and crises in the last 20 years have revealed just how ethical the Ruling Economic Elites are.

Big edge to Obama and the Dems, as long as they do not betray newly arriving youth and hispanics, and returning Reagan Democrats, with policies that reward parasitism instead of hard work.
=================
Rotwang:

“I am Joe the Plumber” is an inspiring rallying cry for every American who’s never had to hire a plumber, pay $150 an hour for $30 worth of PVC pipe and liquid joint sealant, or clean up the carpets afterward.

For everyone else, it is like hearing “I am Joe the Auditor” or “I am Joe the Auto Mechanic.”

Please don’t overestimate the public’s love for “Everyman” plumbers.

Agree. McCain, in making such a plastic, phony “everyman” fetish worship out of people other people dread seeing because they know they are going to pay, big…will not pay off as much as he thinks because the worship level is not there…
Why exactly should I love the plumber hitting me with a 300 dollar bill for minor stuff, or cherish the mediocre teacher, the humble IRS worker? What about Jill, the hard-working pro-Palin stockbroker whose parents were welfare clients but who put 1/3rd of my wifes personal savings into “perfectly safe, conservative REITs” now worth pennies on the dollar? And Fred the “Hero Mechanic” who claimed my truck differential was bad and needed replacing 39,000 miles ago?
Or simply because they want to start their own businesses and think that because they are “so special” unlike the 19 of 20 similar workers who don’t “rise” – convinced they will get rich off other workers exploitation in the future, they embrace being screwed by their present owner? That is the non-socialist “New Base” Republicans want?
The 1 in 5 workers that do no want a fair wage and prefer a tax system rigged against them, because one day they dream of screwing their own future employees? Dems will be happy to give them that 20%.

Republicans had previously gone with hero worship of troops and “our noble 1st Responders who Serve and save us all”. Even that is thin. As an ex-officer, I don’t automatically revere someone in military service. Many are worthy of it, a sizable minority are not. Anyone in the military will tell you that. Just as I don’t get a Chris Matthews tingle up my leg and my throat tightening up in cop-worship when I encounter one…some are great, others are natural-born dickheads.

McCain’s plastic worker “models” are not the object of fetish worship based on job title for most voters. Most the public wants a fair wage for their present job, and the rich not to get more of each dollar they make than what part of each dollar working poor get. One in 5 working Americans now has no health care coverage, or who has been told at work that health care coverage is threatened.

Edge to Democrats.

Not enough for Republicans to say that there are 8,000 to 14,000 enemy out there, and they will ignore other matters American voters care about, aside from making the rich richer – to “keep us all safe” and keep shopping..In other eras, Republicans understood that while facing 8,000,000 communists – we had other responsibilities of governance and concommitant obligations to working and middle-class voters, and the poor (Until the Hard-Right “Base” came into existence, Republicans believed more than Democrats in a duty to the poor).

Oct 24, 2008 - 1:04 pm 45. Sadly, No!:

You’re such a wacko. Nobody cares about “Joe the Plumber” except wingnuts who are trying to act like they know about the middle class.

What a joke.

People care about Joe the same as they care about the surge or offshore drilling. Nice try, sucker!

Oct 24, 2008 - 2:09 pm 46. Believer:

Obama supporters should perhaps listen to Tammy Bruce. She knows the Dems pretty well. She was one herself and engaged in some of their activities.

When word that the Palin rallies were interrupted with shouts of “terrorist” and what we now know is UNtrue: “kill him” — though Obama made sure the last debate audience heard that rumor and that it was meant for HIM — Tammy Bruce told her radio audience she knows the tricks the Dems will pull. They infiltrate Republican events and are “plants” pretending to be one of them to make the Republicans look bad.

I really want the hoaxster who carved the “B” on her cheek to have her party affiliation scrutinized. She is so sick and crazy, I can’t believe she’s a Republican.

A democrat? Yeah, that makes far more sense.

Oct 24, 2008 - 2:17 pm 47. Believer:

Add:

She was shipped to PA, supposedly, and with so much on the line in that state, I can see how the desperate Dems might be tempted to pull this lousy trick.

Oct 24, 2008 - 2:18 pm 48. glc:

Folks,

Don’t give up. Vote McCain. Hold true to your conservative ethics and values.

Obama, the main stream media, and the Democrat Party want us to give up.

But don’t.

Fight like hell.

The fat lady has not yet sung on this election.

McCain can still win.

He must win.

Never give up.

Stop crying and get out there and get folks to vote for McCain.

Oct 24, 2008 - 2:22 pm 49. Ex-fetus:

Screw the election, bring on the lawyers.

http://radarsite.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-birth-certificates-lawsuits-filed.html#links

Ohhhhh……..BAAMA! is an illegal candidate. He cannot win, even if he gets EVERY electoral vote. Motions filed in Pennsylvania, Washington, Hawaii with more starting next week. The question is how many states will still have him on the ballot come November 04.
Of course, Ohhhhh……BAAMA is in Hawaii now. Seeing if he can ditch the private detectives and Secrete service long enough to do something about his Birth Certificate? The last forgery didn’t fly. I doubt that the next one will either.

Oct 24, 2008 - 2:55 pm 50. Marc Malone:

cedarford – Man, how can you be so wrong in your interpretation of things? Normally, you’re much more insightful. Where do I start?

Failed Capitalism – Not. Capitalism works. It doesn’t work when the government gets involved and throws sand into the gears, a la the CRA, interest rates lower than inflation, and massive government spending and over-regulation.

The Military – Yes, there is a sizable minority of soldiers (and cops) are not deserving of hero-worship, but most are. (I’d wager that most of that sizable minority vote Democrat.) All who serve do so with explicit understanding that they may be called upon to willingly put their lives on the line, and for that, they are deserving of immediate respect, until their dishonor is clearly demonstrated. They are honorable until proven dishonorable, so we honor them. To do otherwise is to think like an ingrateful liberal.

Exploited workers – This is standard Marxist nonsense, along with failed Capitalism. Are you revealing your true colors like Obama did? The reason so many workers don’t rise to the top, is because they can’t manage their own lives.

They don’t manage their own finances well. They live beyond their means. They are unable to reduce their profligate lifestyles, even (or rather, especially) when they are first starting out. They don’t plan for their future.

Their minds aren’t trained in bedrock principles, nor in critical thinking. They are easily brainwashed. They treat this serious election as an American Idol show. Despite McCain’s solid substance, he comes up short on style. He’s too old. They buy all the nonsense that Obama’s spewing. They aren’t even a bit suspicious. Mostly, they don’t stand for anything but their own pocketbooks.

Finally, there is this serious mindset of victimhood. “The system has failed us. We did everything we were told, but it didn’t work.” No, you did what the enemies of the system told you to do, so the system didn’t work. They told you to go out and “get a job”, instead of go out and start your own business. They told you the gov’t (i.e., others) would and should take care of you, instead of YOU taking care of you. They taught you to roll over and wet on yourselves when times get tough, instead of digging in and finding the steel inside each of us.

The rich get richer, because the system works. Those who learn the tenets of creating real wealth can become wealthy. Those who learn how to be poor succeed at being poor. Too many work at becoming poor instead of rich. They fail to develop their own character. They worship style over substance, talk versus deeds. Then, the people who taught them to be poor come along and say the system doesn’t work.

They teach people not to dream. In the above article, “Joe’s” dreams are caricatured as “fantasies”. The fact is, many people who immigrate here become wealthy in about 5-10 years time. They have big dreams. They live in self-enforced privation. They deny themselves all manner of things in order to succeed. They don’t feel entitled to anything. Because they delay their gratification, and keep their dreams clearly in their minds’ eye, they succeed where soft natives, with all the other advantages, fail.

Success is hard. Life’s hard. It’s supposed to be hard. Quit shying from the hard things in life. When you embrace hard, the hardest thing, making a decision and sticking with it, becomes easy. The hardest thing this campaign gives us, is to step out on faith and not desert McCain, despite what the polls tell us. Go out and vote regardless.

“Joe” represents embracing hard. He chooses to rely on Joe, not some gov’t handout. He’s ridiculed by the Dems as not knowing what’s good for him. They’re wrong. THEY don’t know what’s good for him. A crutch for a healthy man is not good for him. Selling his vote is not good for him. Joe has chosen Joe. He embraced hard.

Oct 24, 2008 - 3:57 pm 51. Eric:

Nice spin retard

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:08 pm 52. Marc Malone:

Eric – How retarded are you not to refernce the person whom you are insulting?

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:28 pm 53. FACTUALITY BELITTLED « Not a Hedgehog:

[...] Saturday, 25 October, 2008 by Tobias Ziegler Timmeh quotes approvingly: Further from Fred J. Eckert: [...]

Oct 24, 2008 - 4:50 pm 54. ‘Joe the Plumber’ Thinking About Running for Congress « One American Voice:

[...] also: How ‘Joe the Plumber’ Could Cost Obama the Election Isn’t it interesting? It took a plumber to flush out Barack Obama’s economic philosophy and [...]

Oct 24, 2008 - 5:00 pm 55. BusyBeeLA:

Fred you took the words right out of my mouth. There is still hope, do not lose faith. I trully believe that like me, there are voters out there just waiting for November 4th (My b-day by the way) to bring home the whoopin’ that the MSM has deserved for the two years Barack has been campaigning. I am talking to everyone I know and trying to convince them that this race is the most important for the very soul, the culture of our country. I love my country Barack…you can keep the change.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:03 pm 56. Mike:

Joe failed to worship at the feet of the mess-iah, he commited heresy. Therefore he will be smited by the truely faithful, the main stream media, for his sin. All praise the most holy and exalted lord barack. failure to properly worship lord barack will result in punishment and or re-education.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:23 pm 57. Patrick:

Has anybody watched the entire discussion between Obama and Joe the unlicensed-wannabe-business-owner? The senator was open, sincere, accessible, and reasonable. He gave a sensible outline of how his tax plans would benefit Joe. Of course he was assuming that Joe was also being honest, which we now know was not the case. Do idiots still respond to the ’spread the wealth’ comment being spun by right wing nuts in media into: “He’s a communist and wants to give all your money away!”
Joe the liar could have lower taxes and a health care plan if he votes for Obama.

Oct 24, 2008 - 7:41 pm 58. Brad:

545 PEOPLE By Charlie Reese

Hi Everyone – This is right on point and it is neither democrat nor
republican.
This is an article written by Charlie Reese, a former columnist
for the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper. Very interesting perspective on the
state of our Nation!

545 PEOPLE By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems
and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the
Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against
inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don’t propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on
appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve
Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine
Supreme Court justices 545 human beings out of the 300 million are
directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the
domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that
problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its
Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally
chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound
reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce
a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing.
I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash.
The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what
the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to
determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you
that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common
con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an
excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of
a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating
deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force
the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives
sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and
approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?
She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members,
not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president
vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can
not replace 545 people who stand convicted — by present facts — of
incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic
problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you
fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the
federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they
want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it’s because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it’s because they want it in the
red.

If the Marines are in IRAQ , it’s because they want them in IRAQ.

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite
retirement plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it
that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom
they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and
advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to
regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let
them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical
forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent them
from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people
who are their bosses provided the voters have the gumption to manage
their own employees.

We could vote all of them out of office and clean up their
mess. Or, vote only those out of office who voted for the latest bail out taxpayer theft.

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando
Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it
is up to you, though you appear to have several choices.

1. You can send this to everyone in your address
book, and hope they do something about it.

2. You can agree to vote against everyone that is
currently in office, knowing that the process will take several years.
(November 4th – Be There!) Or, vote out the bail out supporters.

3.. You can decide to run for office yourself and
agree to do the job properly.

4. Lastly, you can sit back and do nothing.

YOU DECIDE, BUT AT LEAST SEND IT TO EVERYONE IN YOUR
ADDRESS BOOK, MAYBE SOMEONE IN THERE WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Oct 24, 2008 - 9:26 pm 59. john from cinncinati:

Marc Malone: soft natives…ouch. we saw that during Katrina when a big section of our people resented the fact that the government couldn’t help them, because they have been indoctrinated to wait for a handout.
if i were blind and couldn’t see Obamas color, in what manner would i best be able to judge him? and i am blind because i just can’t see voting for him. its the character, very Michavellian, in that he has a lot of hatchet men.

Oct 24, 2008 - 10:12 pm 60. jtron:

Wow…? Really…? Facts mean nothing to you people?? I am not a democrat nor am I a republican. I strive to be a rational person who stands up for what is right and decent. Do you really think Barack is out to get you. After all this time and in seeing interview after interview after debate etc. I accept either nominee to be a step forward from the last horrible eight years, yet I did not vote for the moron which I’m pretty sure you many of you folks did. So all I ask of you is to please for a moment realize that this is not a sporting event. You are not bound to a party. When a team we love performs poorly we still love them. When our representatives/presidents perform poorly it is our OBLIGATION to hold them accountable. Obama has more integrity than we have seen in some time, and I will gladly be voting for him this election. Kill the cycle of fear. It is your OBLIGATION. THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oct 24, 2008 - 10:23 pm 61. NHGuy36:

I must have missed something along the way.
Would someone please tell me where Joe the Plumber was dishonest? Did he seek Obama out to “entrap” him? Did he misrepresent himself in any way? Is it really relevant that he, personally, doesn’t have a plumber’s license? That he owes back taxes? That he uses his middle name as his preferred name?
And for your information, ladies and gentlemen,(although I really have my doubts about that designation for a few of you posters on this site) the title of the article “How Joe the Plumber Could Cost Obama the Election” can now be changed around some and read “How the Inconvenient Question by Joe the Plumber to Obama Cost Joe the Plumber His Job and Burst Joe’s American Dream Bubble”. How’s that, you ask? Too long for a title?
Well, has anyone followed Joe’s story to its latest chapter?
Seems that Joe and his fellow workers at the plumbing enterprise that Joe wanted to buy and expand no longer have a job! The firm closed its doors. Maybe the business was not viable. Maybe all the media crush caused it to suffer a reversal of fortune. Maybe… Maybe… Maybe…
One good thing came out of all this, though, Now Joe doesn’t have to wait until the Obama administration’s coronation in 2009 to fret about his being “punished”, right?
And allow me to preempt what some of you are most likely thinking: No, Mr.ObaMarx was in no way directly and personally responsible for what happened. Just an unlikely alignment of the stars… Will we ever know? Do we really care?

Oct 24, 2008 - 11:22 pm 62. Dave Surls:

“Joe the liar could have lower taxes…if he votes for Obama.”

Hardy har har.

Oct 24, 2008 - 11:58 pm 63. The Wide Awake Cafe » A Squirrel Attacked the Transformer:

[...] snow, and other accidents make citizens lives more comfortable and safe. He’s like our Joe the Plumber, the guy who wasn’t afraid to ask a question to Obama. Because of Joe, many Americans are [...]

Oct 25, 2008 - 12:07 am 64. Brad:

here you go Obamanites:
http://www.bpmdeejays.com/upload/hs_sal_in_Harlem_100108.mp3

I am not saying all of you are uneducated sheep, but this is just silly. You are voting for someone that you have no clue what he truly stands for. You know he can talk the talk, but he has NEVER tried to walk. Every chat room I enter I ask for 5 things Obama did in the Illinois Senate and 5 in the US senate (before he started to run for president). I never get a reply that is not filled with hate and smears. Telling me he is not McCain or Bush is not a success.

Oct 25, 2008 - 12:18 am 65. Mary Grabar:

I’d rather have a beer with or live next to a plumber than your typical Ph.D. any day. Obama’s sneering at Joe the Plumber is typical of my Marxist professor colleagues who claim in their papers to be for “workers” (going so far as to identify themselves as “word workers”), but reveal utter contempt for the real workers. Great article, Fred.

Oct 25, 2008 - 4:35 am 66. Bubba Steve Atl.:

The Audacity of Questioning.

Oct 25, 2008 - 8:47 am 67. nick:

I know plumbers and joe is not a plumber

point to me his license, his appenticeship etc

YOU CANT morons

Oct 25, 2008 - 4:26 pm 68. Cindi:

What a sad display of ignorance. I do not care about Joe the idiot. I care about 18 & 19 year children marines giving their lives in Iraq on the lies of George, Karl & Dick the prick. Hello their are things that really matter out there. The GOP has been in control for 8 devastating years. they have screwed all of us, Right & left. If you think the republican party is going to help anyone who is not filthy rich, you are sadly misinformed. Bush is the worst of the worst and will go down in history as an incompetent boob controled by Cheney. I hope Cheney gets his own Kenneth Starr and is crucufied for what he has done. He is a bad bad man. Karl Rove well he will be king of hell when he gets there.

Oct 25, 2008 - 5:13 pm 69. Marc Malone:

nick – He requires no license. His boss does. He has no officila apprentoceship, because he chooses not to work through a union. However, he is six months out from getting his master plumber’s certification, via schooling.

I am tired of you coming into here and ALWAYS calling us morons. Stop it. You never add anything constructive to the dialogue, just destructive. You don’t get to call us morons because we disagree with you politically. You simply don’t.

I am not a moron. A moron is a person with an IQ of between 80 and 90. Mine is around 200. Since that means I’m one of maybe 2,000 in the whole world with this kind of IQ, I bet my IQ is higher than yours.

When you lash out in these forums, do you really believe that you are smarter than everyone else there? How arrogant is that? Even with my IQ, I know that cfbleachers, and fred, and Chuck Pelto, for some examples, are clearly more educated than I. I’m not foolish enough to lash out like you do. Even my IQ does not entitle me to do that.

Oct 25, 2008 - 5:15 pm 70. NHGuy36:

Cindi -

Who’s been in control of Congress for the last two years? Who screwed up Fannie and Freddie? The key words in my question are “in control”; can you give an honest answer, even to yourself, or are you that blinded by The Great One’s bedazzling light? Or do you simply blog too much on the DailyKos?

“Bush lied”, you spew. You still actually believe that, when it has been shown that all the intelligence agencies in the world had about Saddam the same information that we had? But of course you don’t take stock of anything “that has been shown” and you never will, will you?

You believe that Bush is the worst president this country has ever had, and you have every right to your opinion, but what tune will you be singing when Obama down the road turns out to be not quite the savior that you believe he is? It’ll all be Dubya’s fault, right?

“Joe the Idiot”, you say. Why is he an idiot? Because he dared ask The Chosen One a question the answer for which the teleprompter had no scripted reply and his answer showed us what he’s really planning for this country?

You Obama supporters will rightfully rejoice when he is sworn in, but how long before your joy is tempered by the realization that everything he and his veto-proof Congress have planned for this country will screw us all, those who voted for him and those who voted against him, a thousand times more than Bush II ever has? I will be sad for me, but not for you, because you got what you deserved, and I didn’t.

Oct 25, 2008 - 9:07 pm 71. TruthHurts:

It’s becoming pretty clear that the GOP has no idea how to strategize a General Election that does not lean HEAVILY on smears & fears…. It’s pretty sad that Joe the Plumber, (aka the once-secret-$100-McCain-donor) is the secret weapon that will keep the whitehouse for the GOP…Never mind that McCain thrust the guy on the national stage without bothering to tell ol Joe..Never mind that public records can determine licensing and tax lien info…Noooo it’s Obama’s Macaca moment or Watergate Moment of maybe even his Monica Lewinsky moment (there’s got to be a stained blue dress somewhere in this)…The bottom line is that the smear merchants are playing against a campaign organization that’s “next level”..They don’t have an answer because the GOP never had a plan. No strategy beyond Smear Baby Smear!

Oct 25, 2008 - 11:59 pm 72. nick:

dont want to be called a moron?

then stop being so stupid

join colin powell and 2 GOP governors in supporting Obama

lewinsky moment – yes thats what they want to go with their bankrupt ideas

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:26 am 73. Marc Malone:

nick – I want you to quit insulting people here. Can you not understand this? What is wrong with you that you can’t indulge in civil discourse? Where did you learn that such behavior is okay? Does your mother know that you do this?

Or is she just too stupid to have trained you right?

How do you like it? Kinda nasty, no? Where does it end?

Oct 26, 2008 - 2:07 am 74. NHGuy36:

To all you people that believe that Joe the Plumber is a liar, and maybe worse:
Have you even tried to research it at all at all at all? It doesn’t look like it. You have nothing better to do, I guess, than avoid all the questions that have been asked and resort to insults, thereby hoping that all your insults will hide the unpleasant fact that Joe has been proved to be “the genuine article”, even by FactCheck and MediaMatters, two non-lovers of the GOP.

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:07 am 75. nick:

ah your feelings hurt?
then stay out of the politcal kitchen

did you hear Obam say he was hurt?
he even picked someone who said he was not qualified

he knows how politics work – you dont

Oct 26, 2008 - 8:07 am 76. NHGuy36:

Who are the greater idiots or morons? Isn’t it those who bitch and whine and moan about the excessive spending of the Bush Administration and the former Republican Congress but yet are now favoring the greater AND PROMISED spending of the administration to come? I hate to say “I told you so!”

Oct 26, 2008 - 8:47 am 77. nick:

polls show obama +7 , no way reversed before election

my job is done here – have fun crying

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:55 am 78. whiskey:

Tearing down Joe the Plumber is GREAT politics.

First, it gets more women’s votes. White men were never going to vote for Obama. But White Women love the Alpha Male, Obama’s bullying ways towards Joe show he’s the Big Man and Joe is being made an example of.

Women love that stuff, as anyone who’s ever gotten a swirly from the school Bully can attest.

Moreover, single women are status-driven, and disparaging a working White guy is gold with that demographic. He’s low-status, was taken down a peg or two for having ambitions and temerity to question the Big Man, again great politics.

It gains far more votes (among women) than it loses (among men). Obama and his crew are smart and know what they are doing. After all, Dems built their campaign on running against working/middle class White men and with White women. It’s working, too.

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:02 pm 79. Ed Wallis:

“whiskey,”

GREAT SATIRE! The “girly man” candidate cast as “Alpha Male.”

HILARIOUS!!!

Oct 27, 2008 - 4:08 am 80. Peter the Sub Guy:

57. Patrick wrote:
Has anybody watched the entire discussion between Obama and Joe the unlicensed-wannabe-business-owner? The senator was open, sincere, accessible, and reasonable. He gave a sensible outline of how his tax plans would benefit Joe. Of course he was assuming that Joe was also being honest, which we now know was not the case.

Peter asks:
Hey Patrick, what exactly was Joe being dishonest about? I’ve heard the entire exchange and what I heard was a guy who currently works for a boss with the idea to someday buy the business he currently works for, become his own boss and hire new workers, something he doesn’t believe he would be able to afford to do under Obama’s tax plan. Where is the dishonesty? I for one think, for once, there was honesty on BOTH sides as Obama let slip his actual plan instead of hiding it under double-speak until January 20th.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:47 am 81. Peter the Sub Guy:

60. jtron wrote:
Wow…? Really…? Facts mean nothing to you people?? I am not a democrat nor am I a republican.

Peter observes:
Has anyone else here noticed that when anyone posts this claim (”I am neither a democrat nor a republican!”) that the very next sentence is usually some snide remark about why we should all be voting for Obama for our own good?

I don’t recall anyone saying they were neither Dem nor Repub and then telling us McCain is the only way to go.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:58 am 82. Peter the Sub Guy:

67. nick wrote:
I know plumbers and joe is not a plumber
point to me his license, his appenticeship etc
YOU CANT morons

Peter replies:
You know, for someone who is constantly calling everyone ELSE a moron…
Try looking in Ohio law. Joe wasn’t REQUIREd to have his own license as long as he was working for and under the supervision of his boss, who IS (or perhaps was, according to recent reports) a LICENSED PLUMBER.

And nick, I’m STILL waiting for you to give us your real name, so we can start looking through your background, job record, parking tickets, overdue library books, grammer school detentions, etc. After all, you were the one who stated on another post that Joe’s life is an open book, so yours must be as well. Come on nick, I’m waiting!

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:05 am 83. Peter the Sub Guy:

68. Cindi wrote:
What a sad display of ignorance. I do not care about Joe the idiot. I care about 18 & 19 year children marines giving their lives in Iraq…

Peter replies:
Okay, Cindu, what does that have anythingt o do with Joe the Plumber’s treatment by the MSM and its likely effect on the upcoming election? You want to rant about Iraq, find an Iraq story to post on.

Besides, most 18 and 19 year olds I know serving in the military (and I know qite a few) volunteered to do it, post-9/11, and are happy to be participating in the liberation of Iraq from Saddam’s despodic rule and the protection of our nation from terrorism.

After all, with few exceptions, if they didn’t want to do it, they wouldn’t have volunteered, would they have, Cindi?

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:08 am 84. Neil:

Actually it was McShame who blew this up……”Joe” is not a “plumber” He is a plumber’s helper and if he did buy his boss’s business with a partner, most small business files taxes as Individuals. The income he receives doubtfully would amount to anything above 250,000 so he would get tax benefits under Obama’s plan and also the additional tax break for small business development.
Don’t fall for the smears by mcshame and falin!

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:16 pm 85. ken:

The ‘Messiah’ is speaking, he is capturing your youth. So get in line put your hand out, you are no longer are responsible for your position in life. The Messiah will take care of you. Stay the way you are, because they can not exist unless you believe that you are incapable of doing anything for yourself. You are not to blame, it is every body else that is at fault for your condition. They will take care of you, they will think for you, they will tell you what is true, and what is not. All you have to do is exist. Don’t think or wonder just follow the rest of the sheep to the slaughter, after all the truth was out there you were just to lazy to look for it.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:30 pm 86. Peter the Sub Guy:

And remember, Change! Change! Change!

Hitler changed Germany.
Castro changed Cuba.
Lenin changed Russa.
Saddam changed Iraq.
Ayatollah Khomeini changed Iran.
Chavez changed Venezuela.

So remember that when you vote for CHANGE!

Oct 28, 2008 - 6:14 pm 87. joe downs:

I’m a real nj reg. master plumber, my plumbing business is down about80% first time ever that i’m having a hard time paying my morgage and other bills, i’m voting for Obama and who ever else I can get to vote for him, I’M THE REAL JOE THE PLUMBER, 4 MORE YEARS OF ANOTHER BUSH ILL LOSE EVERYTHING

Oct 31, 2008 - 4:44 pm 88. ken:

I’m truly sorry for your plight Joe. Now explain to me exactly what Obama or anybody else in Government can do to change it. Pay your mortgage, pay your bills perhaps. Take somebody else’s money and give to you, what are you looking for. Our Government can not make me hire a plumber. If you made most of your money on new houses, the democrats caused the housing bubble by forcing banks to make bad loans. Again I am sorry.

Oct 31, 2008 - 8:58 pm

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