How Serious Is the World About Stopping an Iranian Bomb?
The revelation of a previously unknown Iranian nuclear facility is driving the world community toward a tougher sanctions regime. (Also read Roger L. Simon: The Washington Post buries the lede.)
The announcement at the G-20 summit in Pittsburgh by the U.S., France, and Great Britain that Iran has been secretly constructing a smaller version of its nuclear enrichment plant at Natanz is a clear indication that those who have been concerned about the Iranian nuclear program have been right all along.
“They have cheated three times,” one senior administration official with access to the intelligence said of the Iranians late on Thursday evening. “And they have now been caught three times.”
Actually, you can make that four times caught cheating if you include:
1. The actual existence of the Iranian nuclear program that the Iranians lied about for more than a decade.
2. The existence of the underground nuclear facility at Natanz which was unearthed by an Iranian dissident group and which the Iranians had been denying existed for years.
3. Iranian lies about their desire not to build nuclear weapons — until we penetrated their computer network two years ago and discovered they were trying to design a bomb. (Note: the latest National Intelligence Estimate on Iran from 2007 determined the regime had stopped trying to build a bomb in 2003.)
4. This new revelation about a facility that Western intelligence has known about for several years, while at the same time the Iranians were telling the International Atomic Energy Agency that there were no other nuclear facilities in Iran.
The question asks itself: why would a nation that claims to be interested only in the nuclear fuel cycle hide a facility capable of secretly enriching uranium to the 85-90% level necessary to construct a bomb?
Nothing Iran has ever publicly said about the extent of its nuclear program has ever proven to be true. The have brazenly and repeatedly lied about matters vital to the peace and security of the world.
What’s the “world” going to do about it?
Why should anyone believe the Iranians when they claim they have no interest in constructing a bomb? And if no one believes them, then the world has two choices: try and prevent Iran from developing a bomb or learn to live with them possessing it.
Obviously, the milquetoast Security Council sanctions we have applied to Iran previously have failed to convince them to stop their drive to build nuclear weapons — or at least develop the capability to build them in a matter of months. Searching for a solution short of war, Western nations will now seek much tougher sanctions against the regime in hopes that it will bring concessions by Iran at the bargaining table in Geneva, where talks are scheduled to begin on October 1.
The major element of any new sanctions will almost certainly be a cutoff by the world to Iran of refined gasoline. Despite sitting on a sea of oil, the Iranians import about 40% of their fuel needs from abroad. Such a cutoff would not only bring the Iranian economy to a standstill; it would more than likely feed the discontent already boiling over in the streets as a result of the stolen election last summer.
GOP House Whip Eric Cantor took advantage of the revelation about the secret Iranian facility to push legislation that would bring about the fuel sanction:
The existence of a second uranium enrichment facility not only undercuts the administration’s policy toward Iran, but leaves little doubt that terrorist nations are not to be trusted or negotiated with diplomatically. Congress should act immediately to give the president the tools he needs to implement sanctions on Iran by passing the bipartisan Iran Refined Petroleum Sanctions Act.
But whether the rest of the world, including Russia and China, would support such stiff measures against Iran is another question. The Chinese have found it profitable to use the Asian spot market in refined gasoline to make considerable deliveries to Tehran using third parties.
And Russia is extremely reluctant to do anything that would upset its profitable commercial ties with Iran — especially in the areas of modern arms sales and helping the regime with its “peaceful” nuclear program.
Both nations have vetoes in the United Nations Security Council and could potentially derail any effort to impose meaningful sanctions on Iran that might give the regime second thoughts about their enrichment program. Can they be convinced to play for such stiff sanctions?
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64 Comments
1. Sebastian Shaw:The United States has not been serious about Iran; furthermore, even more troubling, President Obama backs the terrorists, the Mullahs, & the dictators instead of our traditional allies. President Obama will do nothing to stop Iran. However, I am more disturbed Obama will back shooting down Israeli planes in Iran airspace. Israel needs to take out Iran’s nuclear weapons ASAP.
Sep 25, 2009 - 12:37 pm 2. Poor Citizen:I better get my comments in before the kids show up like no.1 and the uneducated like goy and co. do…so I can educate with clear mind and relative peace. Obama and the British PM threatened sanctions and other mult-lateral actions if Iran did not change course. Lets face it, with two conflicts already in full swing and age 50+ guardsmen being sent into harms way now, we can little afford another war. Pubs wont like more deficit and dems cant handle the truth of the need for another draft. Hence, sanctions is .. the only game in town. However, the one thing that makes most sense is the change from the unilateral (Bush) approach to the mult-lateral. We learned the hard way over the past eight years. Its better to do things as a team. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. Now, if congress could do that, it would make things so much easier.
Sep 25, 2009 - 12:58 pm 3. Francis W. Porretto:Ultimately, what will matter most is not how serious the non-Islamic world is about stopping the “Iranabomb,” but whether Iran is deterrable by any threat or measure within the powers of non-Islamic Mankind.
We shall see.
Sep 25, 2009 - 12:58 pm 4. billslayer:Yes, Obama is a paperweight when it comes to this. But… so was Bush. That said, the president’s name right now is Barack Obama, and he can stop this, I just doubt he has the mind to do it, he’s too stuck on his ridiculous post colonial studies mindset, which is great for picking up 20 years at the coffee shop… but no so helpful in the Oval Office. The long and short of it is this: Obama puts his white liberal guilt syndrome ahead of the material welfare and safety of this country. Think about that! He considers his ideas more important than you or your family’s life.
Sep 25, 2009 - 12:59 pm 5. Sherab Zangpo:Articles like this explain very clearly HOW it did happen that America ended up with a communist president.
These are the results of forty years of indoctrination.
The intoxication of the process of thought with ideological elements is so serious that no amount of criticism could pierce the wall of lies.
Wake up, Folks, this communist president will SAY anything to cover WHAT HE DOES and everything he does is aimed at weakening America.
Should he succeed, we are doomed, and the world is doomed.
Realpolitik my A** ! this guy is selling Israel to the muslim jihadists and eastern Europe to the neocoms in the Kremlin.
At the same time, he does his best to nationalize larger and larger parts of the American economy.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:03 pm 6. David Thomson:The “world” is not even slightly interested in stopping the Iranian nuclear enrichment program. It will require violence to do so—and nobody other than the Israeli government is willing to pay the price. That’s it in a nutshell. What is the next question?
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:12 pm 7. Sallie:Obama cannot and will not do anything to stop Iran. As long as Russia and China don’t draw a line with Iran, there will be nothing to stop them. Plus Obama won’t raise a hand to the Middle East in general.
We need to stand with Israel. Our enemies are NOT afraid of us and Obama is inviting war to our shores.
Plus they will “cheat” four times, and be caught four times, and five etcetcetc….
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:16 pm 8. MarkD:Hmm, you say we can’t afford to stop Iran from going nuclear. We’ll have no choice about cleaning up the damage afterward.
Educate away, Mr aptly monickered. Sir Winston Churchill had it right, but some people fail history and are doomed to repeat it.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:17 pm 9. MikeD:Obama, our esteemed Congress, the UN leadership and the premiers of altogether too many other countries will make Neville Chamberlain look like Attila the Hun when all is said and done. Spineless, appeasing bastards every one. And lots people more will die for their weakness than from any other cause
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:23 pm 10. seftonm:China and Russia will never agree to harsh sanctions. That leaves it to the US and Great Britain to level sanctions against Iran and to block access to all US and British credit markets and banking systems to ANY company or nation selling or transporting finished petroleum products to Iran. If the Chinese and Russians won’t go along with a sanctions regime we need sanctions that compel them to abide by them anyway.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:27 pm 11. ahem:As serious as they were about stopping Hitler’s takeover of Austria. About that serious.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:36 pm 12. Original Dave:The leftist Democrats own this problem. They did all they could along with their European brethren and media allies to weaken the previous president and in turn weakened American and emboldened our enemies. They created it and they own it. Hopefully their incompetence does not kill massive numbers of people before it is corrected.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:50 pm 13. David Thomson:“As serious as they were about stopping Hitler’s takeover of Austria. About that serious.”
Amen. It wasn’t until Hitler’s troops moved into the non-German areas of Checkoslovakia that Neville Chamberlain and the other appeasers woke up to reality. Unfortunately, it was then to late to avoid WWII. Our present leaders will do nothing substantial until Iran fires off a nuclear warhead.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:50 pm 14. ETAB:Poor Citizen – what unilateral action of the US are you referring to?
The Afghan-Taliban War was a coalition,and so was the Iraq War. So – what are you talking about?
Furthermore, dealing with the abstract concept of ‘unilateralism’, since when does a nation require the approval of another nation for its actions?
Obama won’t do a thing about Iran; he’s shown himself clearly as anti-American, anti-West and anti-Israel.
I agree in part with David Thomson – the world is not interested in the violence require to stop the Iranian nuclear bomb (and it’s a bomb they are after not energy). But I think that the WEST is not interested.
I think that the Islamic world might be interested because Iran is a Persian and not Arab ethnicity, and the Arab states of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, etc, do not want Iran’s imperialist rule.
And I consider that Iran has an imperialist agenda in the ME. Iran isn’t that interested in Israel or Palestine; it’s interested in control over the Arab states.
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:56 pm 15. Jim Rockford:It was obvious this day was coming. Soon Iran will be conducting its first nuclear bomb test. How Iran uses its bomb is less obvious, but all possibilities are bad for the U.S., if national interest is something that interests you. Clearly, it does not interest President Obama, the Democrats and Rinos.
The West has done nothing about Iran’s nuclear bomb program for the last decade — despite excellent advice on how to deal with it from such people as Michael Ledeen — and now it is too late short of a U.S. military attack. Which isn’t going to happen. What is going to happen is the Obama administration cutting back on missile defense, both at home and in Europe.
Israel, the only country with any guts these days, may attack but it is generally conceded they don’t have the force capability to completely eradicate the cancer. Pathetically, it’s not inconceivable that the Obama administration would order U.S. forces in Iraq to prevent Israeli jets from flying to Iran!
So Iran will soon have nuclear weapons. What will they do with their new toy. Nuke Israel? Nuke London? Invade Saudi Arabia and Iraq and threaten to go nuke if anyone interferes? Give nuke bombs to terrorist groups to use in the US?
Sep 25, 2009 - 1:56 pm 16. genghis:Very serious. First up, a strongly worded message to the Supreme Leader. Next, a frank and bluntly worded message to the Supreme Leader. Simultaneously, a strongly worded and blunt message to the IEAA and the UN. Then. a call for concerted cooperation to send a blunt and sternly worded message to the Supreme Leader. Followed by a firm deadline if ignored will trigger, immediately, a sternly worded message to both the Supreme Leader and to Honduras. At the same time, feverish discussions among the Great Powers to hammer out the wording of the almost absolutely final blunt warning to the Ayatollah. Ultimately, a United Resolution by the United Nations Comittee on Human Rights condemning the Zionist Entity and praising the Iranian nuclear project to produce nuclear pharmaceuticals for the masses. This to be presented at a gala hosted by Danny Glover, Oliver Stone, Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon and the usual gang of idiots.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:06 pm 17. carla:First of all, the Obama frowned. This is a serious turn of events. Obama does not frown easily. I believe that at any moment he will announce that he will be appearing on the Leno show, or Letterman, or Oprah. And that will mean that we are close to…………….issuing a stern warning to the Ayatollah and his minions. At a minimum, I expect that Obama will announce a total embargo on Persian pistachio nuts for the foreseeable future.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:14 pm 18. arhooley:12. Original Dave: The leftist Democrats own this problem.
Don’t worry, I can connect the dots the opposite way already: Bush abuse of Muslims} Iranian hurt feelings} a mess so big that even the great Obamian post-American diplomacy could not work} the blood of millions on Bush’s hands.
“No one listened to me when I called for an open hand in 2007 and 2008,” Obama will intone. “We now have the saddest proof that our predecessor’s policies of unilateralism and arrogance would sow the seeds of tragedy.” Get your barf-bags ready.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:17 pm 19. mingus:This is serious stuff. Our President has made it clear that unless Iran halts production of nuclear weapons, there will be serious consequnces. Therefor, tonight, he is dispatching former Pres. James Earl Carter to Teheran. Mr. Carter will argue that opponents of the regime be treated fairly and deserve prompt execution rather then languishin in prison. Aditionaly, Mr. Carter will propose a project entitled ‘Habitat for Allah’ constructing affordable mosques throughout the region. Finally, bowing three times to the East, and abasing himself as is his wont, Mr. Carter will condemn Western Civilization as perpetrators of greed, lust, unholy thoughts and low transfat products whose only purpose is to denigrate the glory and power of the Supreme Leader. If not, we will immediately issue a stern, blunt, tersely worded warning drawing a line in the sand.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:23 pm 20. Poor Citizen:Oh ok Etab,
I forgot about the “coalition of the (un) willing, you must be talking about…the few elavators and phonebooths chock full of admin, police re enforcements sent by mighty countries like Estonia and other coalition partners in Iraq eh?…
However, you are correct that Bush did start recognizing reality and began to chum up to the UN just before his demise and embrace multi lateralism. He had no choice, we were going to lose it all had he not faced facts…funny how great loss can change minds.
and as for original dave no. 12… no way pal, Bush ignored Iran and the economy because he was way to busy building his new ranch (another 25 roomer) on vacation in texas instead of doing his job, so this is just another nightmare that Obama inherited, so dont blame the dems. It was all your fault. Deal with it.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:27 pm 21. ginnie:See, I think that, I forget the little guys name, for Iran, he is jsut crying out for love. Look, this guy is a bacheleor. He is not very attractive, and that is being generous. If he had a reliable honey, soul mate, I be he would be OK. Nuclear, schmucklear, he is jus acting out, pouting. If we extend a hand of friendship, love perhaps, he’d be a good guy. Look, one or two nukes is not the end of the world. So let’s give these guys a little breathing room. Afte all, we have got a lot of dirty laundry to explain. And the Zionist entity is a real thorn in their side. I trust in Jesus, and the Apostles. And never forget Feteke.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:31 pm 22. Maurice:The world sleeps on Iran at its peril. Israel, I believe, will NOT sit on Iran, and will act. Probably soon. Consider, if an individual Muslim fanatic would give his life to become a martyred suicide bomber, isn’t it quite easy to project that a group of Muslim fanatics (the mad Mullahs who so eagerly await the 12 Mahdi), would become a “national” suicide bomber? Israel simply must believe this, or it risks an apocolypse on its land.
If the Iranians are allowed to build their Bomb, I believe they will use it. And the hellfire of nukes that falls on Tehran after that will be the glorified martyrdom they all seek for their destruction of Israel. I really don’t think they care about the consequences. They will have achieved the greatest victory for Allah in history.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:42 pm 23. Mohammed:Back off, infidels. You can treat yor bitches any way you want. Get off our case.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:50 pm 24. bill:Obama knew about this during the election and still feigned we needed dialog. The paramount example of Chicago politics. Corrupt and prevaricating.
Sep 25, 2009 - 2:51 pm 25. David W. Lincoln:As long as Agent Zero’s main concern is that he look good, thereby anything is fair game to accomplish that goal, such as redefining words so that he looks good, rather than what the conventional definitions are; is it surprising that there would be stories like this: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=111027
So, Is Georgia and Ukraine up to inviting friendly neighbours to sign the Borjomi Declaration, and have a co-ordinated foreign policy that would be noticed, rather than a number of smaller voices saying the same thing?
Sep 25, 2009 - 3:12 pm 26. ic:“a tougher sanctions regime”
Don’t make me laugh. The joke is stale.
24. bill: “still feigned we needed dialog” Please prove he was feigning.
He believed once he became president, the world would be at peace. Afterall, it was Bush who caused the world to hate us, caused the Iranians to nuclear arm itself against us and Israel. He would keep the Little Satan in check, and defang the Great Satan, which he has done a remarkably good job in less than a year. He has apologized to every tin pot dictator, and has virtually snatched defeat from victory in Afghanistan. Next to do is to de-nuclearize the Great Satan and apologize to the Iranians for our threats and unreasonable demands.
Sep 25, 2009 - 3:52 pm 27. Brad:Friday, September 25
“I do not believe sanctions are the best way to achieve results. Sanctions were used on a number of occasions against Iran but we have doubts about the results. Nevertheless when all instruments have been used and failed, one can use international legal sanctions. That is common. . . . I think we should continue to promote positive incentives for Iran and at the same time push it to make all its programs transparent and open. Should we fail in that case, we’ll consider other options.”
Medvedev.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/25/2080138.aspx
Thursday, September 24
“We believe that sanctions and the application of pressure are not the way to resolve problems and do not benefit current diplomatic efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue,” Jiang said. “We hope all the relevant sides seize the opportunity at hand, step up diplomatic efforts and push for positive results” at the meeting.
China.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hDb6QE6dUOmI-OQUvxlCSPb5O8NQD9ATSB2O2
Keep dreaming about further sanctions.
Sep 25, 2009 - 4:22 pm 28. ETAB:Poor Citizen – please do not insult the soldiers of the 33 nations in the Iraq War coalition; these include soldiers from the UK, Italy, Netherlands, Japan, Australia, Poland, etc. Britain alone sent over 45,000 troops. Kindly stick to the facts.
This coalition had nothing to do with that most corrupt of institutions, the UN. Are you seriously suggesting that sovereign nations ought to ask for UN permission to do anything? Do you seriously suggest that asking Syria, Libya, Zimbabwe, Iran, and other such esteemed examples of morality and democracy is an intelligent and responsible action? Is that, heh, your definition of ‘multilateralism’?
Bush went to the UN only to offset the sophistry of those people who consider that the UN is a world government rather than a world deliberative body. Now, of course, he UN is not even deliberative; it has long ago sunk into the inanity of relativism and corruption.
Again,what’s so great about multilateralism? Please explain.
As for Iran, my view is that their agenda is imperialist control of the Arab States of the Middle East.
Obama? He’s a pathological narcissist. Notice how, even today, he has to constantly, endlessly, refer to Himself and what He has done. The other leaders don’t do that; they focus on the reality. Sarkozy warned Obama – that ‘this is real, not a virtual even’. But Obama is incapable of living in reality – and furthermore, he is a pathological liar. He’ll say, today, what he thinks his audience wants to hear. Tomorrow, with a different audience, he’ll say the opposite.
The US under Obama will do nothing about Iran. It will allow to become nuclear.
Sep 25, 2009 - 4:28 pm 29. Foont:For 8 years the left here and abroad worked tirelessly to undermine the president and sow sedition and defeatism in the American public. They distort history, lie viciously and boldly and continuously with the intention of establishing the lie as a “truth” that is then used as a club against political opponents. And to a great extent they have succeeded (though only in the short run because truth is ultimately impossible to suppress). Because they succeeded so well their anointed one now finds himself bounded by the scenarios they created to get him there.
The left worked overtime to paint Bush into a corner and they succeeded. And now they find themselves occupying the corner in his place.
Sep 25, 2009 - 4:37 pm 30. Noesis Noeseos:Obama won’t do what needs to be done; the person is incapable of serious endeavor. Russia and China are hoping to turn this to their advantage. It’s a big risk and the obstacles are not trivial, but Bibi is the man. He will do it, if it can be done at all. He will be hated for it, but he isn’t hated already?
If it can’t be done, then we are all screwed. You wax indignant over 150K troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? Think about the 2M or more that would be required to fight the minions set loose by the nuclear-tipped fanatic from Tehran once he figures out how to use his new powers. Then you will see the nukes fly, in numerous directions this time and in numbers to make Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like amateur rehearsals.
Sep 25, 2009 - 4:48 pm 31. George S.:5. Sherab Zangpo:
agreed
Sep 25, 2009 - 5:00 pm 32. ER White:1) I’m afraid that the Nuclear genie is going to get set loose in Iran, regardless of who is in power. A change in government might provide a more serious and responsible shift in the way Iran conducts its foreign policy, but the program WILL continue. The state has too much invested in the project and it WILL make Iran one the key powers in the world. When we Americans think of American “exceptionalism” (Which I believe in), in a similar vein Iranians think of their past when as Persia, they were one of the world’s premier civilizations and that they have a right and duty to once again occupy that equivalent position in the modern world
2) Obama, despite his overheated 2008 campaign rhetoric when talking about winning the war in Afghanistan, hasn’t the will to follow through in that theater. What’s makes anyone in their right mind think that he will do anything militarily with regards to Iran? And as far as sanctions go, it won’t happen..Russia will balk at them as long as the current regime is in power and China will always balk at them because it would cause Oil to skyrocket in price and endanger their very export driven economy.
3) Israel might have the will to act militarily, but they don’t have the conventional resources for the prolonged extended campaign to do it. It will come down to a “MAD” policy with the rest of the middle east. Israel’s only real option will be to announce they too have nukes and will target all the Middle East if attacked by Iran… That way everyone in the region will have “skin” in the game and put pressure on Iran to behave once they get nukes.
4) Best case scenario: Iran has regime change before it gets Nukes and they and Israel join the Nuke Power club as a responsible members. Unfortunately, it will also drive other powers in the area to launch their own Nuke programs.
5) Worst case Scenario: Iran gets Nukes with the current regime still in power and then as internal dissatisfaction grows in Iran and threatens Ahmadinejad’s hold, Iran lashes out against Israel to create a crisis as an excuse to stamp out internal reform.
6) Either way: Congrats Obama: It happened on your Watch…. /s off
Cheers
Sep 25, 2009 - 5:00 pm 33. goy:ER White
It’s remarkable, and not just a little depressing, how perfectly the allegedly “best and brightest” (*cough*) of our society keep repeating the mistakes of the past.
Mindful of the horrific consequences stemming from the craven appeasement of Hitler, we saw world leaders pursue the same process with Saddam. Inexplicably, only ten years later, world leaders are again repeating the same mistakes they made with him, almost to the letter. Einstein, I believe, had something to say about repeating the same mistake over and over. Insanity was involved, IIRC.
Conspicuously, in each of these three cases the Russians have been the primary enabler of fascist aggression while the so-called “leadership” of western democracies hemmed and hawed, stupefied into inaction for fear of losing political control of their own little fiefdoms.
With our own President Chamberlain at the helm of the not-so-Free World, we can’t reasonably expect to come out of this without more war, more death and more global conflict.
So you may as well go home and get a nice quiet sleep. You’re going to need it.
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:02 pm 34. Banned bt Huffpo:It’s not going to be much longer before Israel does what we (the U.S.) should have done years ago.
Kick ass, just like they always do.
Insert smiley face here.
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:07 pm 35. Hod Coburn:Re: The Bomb.
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:20 pm 36. wadosy:Let’s face it people, the bomb is old hat. Mid ’40’s, the US, USSR, late ’40’s, Hydrogen bombs soon after. Brits, France, China in ‘64, or before. Pakistan and India, early ’70’s. South Africa and Israel in the mid to late ’70’s.
Think about it. As much as we loved to hate the RSA in the early ’90’s, there is only one nation on earth which ever developed the bomb and dismantled it, the Republic of South Africa.
Why do governments tout the threat of Nukes in this day and age? Fear. As far as I’m concerned, let Hod Coburn have a chance at the button, and I’ll push it. Once the powers that be realize that we won’t live in fear and will take them with us, I guarantee they’ll start talking sense. Hod
it would be pretty neat if you guys could come up with some evidence that iran is building nukes, or even has any intention of building nukes.
meanwhile, i guess the best you can do is cobble up these lame excuses.
the hole in the neocon curtain
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:24 pm 37. billc:If you want to know how the U.N. is going to handle Iran, I think you should go to that classic movie, Team America, for your answer. The scene where Hanz Blix goes to Kim Jong Il to chastize him. I think the Iranian nuclear problem will end the same way as that scene did.
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:29 pm 38. wadosy:you gotta admit it’s time for drastic action, dont you? …when you get two and a half million google hits on PNAC “new pearl harbor“, it’s pretty obvious these truthers are getting out of hand.
thank god we’ve abandoned our morals and dont have any qualms about killing a few million more people… or a few hundred million more people.
once you’ve abandoned your morals, whose gonna quibble about a few hundred million murders, more-or-less?
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:51 pm 39. wadosy:you gotta admit it’s time for drastic action, dont you? …when you get two and a half million google hits on PNAC “new pearl harbor“, it’s pretty obvious these truthers are getting out of hand.
thank god we’ve abandoned our morals and dont have any qualms about killing a few million more people… or a few hundred million more people.
once you’ve abandoned your morals, whose gonna quibble about a few hundred million murders, more-or-less?
Sep 25, 2009 - 7:52 pm 40. Terry Gain:How Serious Is the World About Stopping an Iranian Bomb?
Not at all. China and Russia are opposed to any action. Therefore Obama’s vaunted International Community will do nothing. The U.S., Britain and France won’t act unilaterally. They are all talk.
The last leader to take seriously the threats from a fanatic who “wasn’t fulfilling his international obligations” is still being vilified on a world wide basis, even after he liberated 28 million people ant removed a genocidal, mass murdering stalinist who today would be developing nuclear weapons, if he had not been deposed.
Obama will talk until Israel has no choice but to attack. There will be world wide outrage against Israel when it does attack and Obama’s mentor, ghostwriter and former dinner companion (who taught him so much) will be delighted.
Sep 25, 2009 - 8:02 pm 41. Leatherneck:I don’t think the World will do anything but talk. Iran is worth millions to Russia, China, France, and Germany in contracts.
This latest information about a nuke plant,(for medical reasons of course), might get a strongly worded letter, as has been posted above.
Someone drop a letter down the well, and see what the 12 Imam thinks. He should be in contact with the world soon.
Sep 25, 2009 - 8:45 pm 42. lefroy:Not serious at all.
Humankind cannot bear too much reality.
Fact: Ahmadi-nutjob would not hesitate – as long as he thought he could get away with it – to slip a crude nuke to a terrorist client, for use in the US. He would not hesitate. But only if he thiought he could get away with it.
Fact: Putin will let his puppet president Medvedev hint publicly at sanctions, and even vote in favor of them, but he will use every clandestine trick in spymaster’s book to protect Iran from any such sanctions or their effect.
Why? For crude geostrategic reasons. Putin is Iran’s protector simply because it thwarts, irritates, distracts and weakens the US. For no other reason.
Putin is not repulsed by the idea of a nuke going off in New York or Washington; unfortunate, perhaps, but a useful geostrategic corrective. This is the man who thinks that Yuri Andropov embodied the highest ideals of public service; who things that the collapse of the Soviet Union, the failed, discredited regime of Lenin and his successors, was the “geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century”.
Of course, there is no danger to Russia of getting the same treatment from Iran’s terrorist clients, no matter what Russia does in Chechnya. Another example of the grubby hypocrisy of the mullahs, and radical Islam in general.
No, humankind can’t bear much reality.
Sep 25, 2009 - 8:58 pm 43. Paul of Alexandria:ETAB (14):
Indeed; this is a profound observation. One of the reasons that Al Qaeda/Iran wants to get us out of Iraq and take over (note that many of the weapons that our troops are facing can be traced back to Iran) is that controlling Iraq would give them a foothold in the Arab world. In addition to getting rid of the US, the fundamentalist mullah’s would love nothing better than to overthrow the government of Saudi Arabia or one of the other major Arab states. There are more potential targets for those Iranian nukes than just us or Israel. The problem that Iran faces is that – at least up to now – the US would defend the oil kingdoms. I only hope that President Obama sees exactly how dangerous he can make this game.
Sep 25, 2009 - 9:09 pm 44. John "birther" Samford:Don’t fret. This is a self correcting problem. The very people in the west that are blocking military action against Iran will be the ones killed by Iran’s nukes.
So don’t worry, rejoice! The Mullahs will do our dirty work and clean out our trash. Then we can kill them all and let Allah do a sort.
“Revolutionary war is an antitoxin which not only eliminates the enemy’s
Sep 25, 2009 - 9:17 pm 45. politics for dummier:poison but also purges us of our own filth.”
- Chairman Mao Zedong (Tse-tung)
Especially after today’s idiotic, American bashing, light footed UN speech, all doubt floating around my grey matter about Nut-o-bama has been dispelled. He’s certifiable.
No matter where he was born, he hasn’t the foggiest idea what it means to be an American.
Hiring Obama to be President is like asking a blind man to solve a Rubik’s cube. He totally lacks the capacity.
Apologiz-obama has no idea how to govern this country. He’s put us in critical danger and he refuses to believe it.
Like I said a while back, the guy is a literal, liberal misfit, a socialist peg in a democratic/republic hole.
But you hear much the same kind of conclusion from Rush, Sean or Glenn. Hate to do it, but I take it a step further.
On Oct. 25, 1962, the Cuban Missile Crisis would have not had the same ending if Obama was President. A decision was made that day Obama doesn’t have to wisdom to make in a million years.
Right now, every one of our enemies or potential enemies believes Nobama lacks the will or want to launch a full relatiatory reponse if the U. S. were attacked. Obama’s got a million bad reasons not to respond, and one great reason to do it. And he’d side with the million. No guts. No dog in the fight.
Today, every enemy knows, or at least is certain after hearing Obama’s namby pamby talk at the U.N. that there’s no Patton or Ike or Kennedy in him. No nuclear response will always be Obama’s response.
Why doesn’t Russia nuke us now that they have the opportunity? A good question.
I think they’re just waiting for Israel to try to Nuke out Iran’s missiles. Then Russia will vaporize you, you kids and your wife.
Maybe I call myself Politics for Dummies because anybody who allowed Obama to be elected was in all likelihood signing his family’s death warrant.
That’s the direction we’re going in.
Hannity and Rush will take you as far as saying Israel is in danger of being wiped out. Iran’s delivery system is about three weeks away from being operational.
Three weeks to live. Just think about that when you kiss your children goodnight.
Because I’ve been around politics long enough to know Russia will see this as a once in a lifetime chance to destroy America without firing the first shot. Israel or Iran will undoubtedly do the dirty work.
If I could do something to stop this I would. I know that I can’t because in the last two weeks I’ve called in all my chits to no avail.
We are in mortal danger. Obama didn’t get us there. It’s the idiots who voted for him.
Politics for Dummies doesn’t weigh possibilities. We see things coming a mile away, and try to pull the best Paul Revere imitation we can. But outside of the think tank I work with in Chicago, nobody’s listening to us. All our Republican friends are taking vacations starting in about two weeks. They’ll be out of the country.
If you saw Barney Frank on Fox tonight, you saw a look you’ve never seen before. This morning I called him up and shared with him my thoughts. And he said it was too late to do anything about it. About nine months to late. I closed with Barney, “nice knowing you.”
God, I wish I weren’t so cock sure. I hope I’m wrong. I really do.
Sep 25, 2009 - 9:54 pm 46. rachel peepers:Now don’t anybody panic.
The is just my opinion, albeit an experienced one. Don’t forget Rachel Peepers is just a pen name. I’m hoping none of this comes true. It may very well not. As things stand now, though, this is how I see the future unfolding. It’s just an educated guess. A very educated guess. Here goes:
I don’t know how the upcoming nuke strikes will unfold.
Probably, Israel will launch the first against Iran on the early morning of 18 Oct. or 25 Oct.
Russia, from inside the border of an Eastern European country will likely strike Israel and score a virtual wipe out.
Russia will then blame the U.S. for “fly over permission”, (granted to Israel) and order U.S. armies to stand down the world over or the U.S. will be punished with an attack on Washington DC or New York.
Then the ball will be in Obama’s court. In the end, President Obama will agree to destroy most of our nuclear missile capability thereby erasing the concept of mutually assured destruction as a deterrent to Russia or China attacking with nuclear weapons.
We no longer will be a superpower. The balance of power will have shifted.
At that point, the possibility for civil war in the United States will become real.
Remember, this is just my personal opinion. I am a retired citizen with nothing to base the above on but my intuition.
Sep 25, 2009 - 10:54 pm 47. Dave Surls:“you gotta admit it’s time for drastic action, dont you?”
Yup.
We should have whacked the mad mullahs in 1979.
We better do it now, before it’s too late.
Mad mullahs delenda est.
Sep 25, 2009 - 11:38 pm 48. Rayford:Politics, I hope you are wrong too! but I think that most of us who have been following this gig feel that it is about up!
Sep 26, 2009 - 12:07 am 49. sam:When V.P. said in 6 months the Pres wold be tested I think he was off in his timing but not in the significance of the message.
Those that prepare will do best, 3-6 months worth of food, some currency that can be used as cash, water purifier, iodine tabs,ammo, and a back up plan preferrably away from the cities. Put on your seat belts is bound to be a rough ride….and lets hope we are all wrong about this…the only thing I disagree with is I believe that the US has a Samson option that can get out of control real fast………..
it’s bound to happen eventually
Sep 26, 2009 - 12:50 am 50. rwisher:In all due respect to the Charlie Brown’s of the world before you think this time you’ll be able to kick the ball, pause and ask yourself, what is in it for the other side.
What is in it for the Russians to prevent Iran from having a bomb? What is in it for Iran to stop building a bomb. Please kick out the “because more people will like them and respect them” western mindset. They don’t think like we do.
Also, trading with the Russians (we give up the missile shield, the Russians stop helping Iran) doesn’t work if we give up everything first. It doesn’t work anyway, as history has proven, the way you beat the Russians and those in the Middle East is from a position of strength.
We didn’t win the Cold War because of our gilded tongue, it was our mighty economy and the military build up that simply outdistanced and exhausted the USSR. Slowing down and resting, like the hare, may cost us this very dangerous race.
Sep 26, 2009 - 4:22 am 51. genghis:RAYFORD:
Surely you jest. An American Samson Option? Would that be to dispatch a fleet of B52s over Teheran to drop millions of bluntly worded statements? Followed by a whirlwing round of appearaances on all of the popular talk shows by Obama looking appropriately concerned. Or perhaps defacing the Iranian desert by drawing inumerable lines in the sand. Then, a As a last resort, then, dumping Jimmy, the Smiling Eunuch out of a B2 over Teheran. I know, Iknow, that would not accomplish much, but at least we would be rid of that fatuous, smirking, self-promoting, anti-semitic abortion who has been plaguing the United States with his uncontrolable blather ever since the American voter wised up and dumped him so that he could spend full time building outhouses for humanity.
Sep 26, 2009 - 5:26 am 52. Boulis:I could get grim. I’m already stojckpiling beer, nachos and DVDs just in case the s**t hits the fan.
Mr. Moran (or anyone who knows),
In your article you made reference to our intelligence services penetrating the Iranian computer network to discover the Iranians were lying about not trying to “design a bomb.” All I remember is that infamous December 2007 NIE report that basically hamstrung the Bush administration at a time when it might(at least presumably) have been considering an attack on Iran’s secret enrichment facilities.* Can you link to the story about the US’ successful hacking of the Iranian network? I follow the news reasonably well but remember no such story. If we did indeed hack their network where was the NIE’s retraction of its wrong estimate?
*Apparently we knew of the secret facility that was just revealed “for years.” And yet the 2007 NIE estimate STILL declared definitively that Iran had stopped trying to build a bomb? Huh??? Someone please explain this disconnect.
Sep 26, 2009 - 5:46 am 53. Leatherneck:Politics, do you own stock in the company that makes MRE’s?
Rayford, you forgot weapons, and ammo. Plus, why shouldn’t America get out of control if nuked by the followers of the 12th Imam?
BTW, add a lot of wine to the list. A Lot!
Sep 26, 2009 - 7:24 am 54. anne:“words just word”, that is all Obama has to offer. He thinks he cannot fail as he is supreme. Obama the magic *. Sure hope he and the family have their little bomb shelter ready so as we are nuked he can issue a declaration that this is all Bush’s fault, he had nothing to do with it and will return to Kenya post-haste, and he’s real sorry to have stayed so long. Plus he will be taking the people that voted for him , with him.
When all the world’s nutcases have nukes, what good is the Sampson Option?
Sep 26, 2009 - 8:09 am 55. slimslowslider:We need to prepare.
Do you think the gov will still send out the welfare checks if we get nuked..hhhmmmmmm something for the welfare queens to think about.
“Apparently we knew of the secret facility that was just revealed “for years.” And yet the 2007 NIE estimate STILL declared definitively that Iran had stopped trying to build a bomb?”
research into whom was heading the NIE report at the time. very revealing. ex german translators for the army, etc. The timing was stupendious. Walt and Mearsheimer put their credentials behind Ahmadinejad in saying that he is not really threatening Israel with genocide, this kinda helped to set the stage for Dr.Fingar and his NIE report.
Sep 26, 2009 - 9:07 am 56. Booker T. Gain:*Apparently we knew of the secret facility that was just revealed “for years.” And yet the 2007 NIE estimate STILL declared definitively that Iran had stopped trying to build a bomb? Huh??? Someone please explain this disconnect.
That’s easy. Most leftists, including most leftists in the Intelligence Community, invariably choose the interests of their party over the interests of their country.
Sep 26, 2009 - 10:56 am 57. gracie:First off…..where is Hillary in all this mess??? Obama has hidden her, why?????
Obama says “Iran will be held accountable by world’s nations”…all I can do is laugh. we knew about it and so did our allies. Sanction able? bull. aawwwww it “violates the rules”. ha! Obama is naive and has no respect for America. He’s a wiener, and very weak.
The nuclear site we are just hearing about in Iran is near a holy site. SO WHAT!!, blow the hell out of it. Do you honestly think a nuclear attack on us would account for holy sites, hospitals, schools, your house?
Just wondering, what do you guys have planned when we are attacked?
Sep 26, 2009 - 11:06 am 58. Booker T. Gain:AND YOU KNOW WE WILL BE, THANKS TO OBAMANATION. Talking here on these posts is great, but what are you doing to help yourself. “Forget the collective for a few minutes and think about you and yours. Sad that our great country is in this position.
Obama is naive
It is naive (and dangerous) to believe Obama is naive. Naive people don’t get to be POTUS.
Obama is….take a consonant, an throw away two letters and rearrange the rest.
Sep 26, 2009 - 11:14 am 59. Sherab Zangpo:#31 George S.
For once, I have the time to thank you and to answer that I always agree with the posts that you publish here at PJM.
God speed.
Sep 26, 2009 - 12:53 pm 60. DD:This is truly a crisis but one that callls for out of the box thinking. I think the Israelis should move intensely to set up mutual defense treaties with their Sunni neighbours. The reality is that Iran is a major exporter of Shia terror and anti-Sunni activity. Lebanon and Iraq have suffered enormously from Iran’s meddling. IMHO, I think the Iranians don’t care much about Israel. Thet really care about exporting their Shiite revolution to their classic Arab adversaries. Israel is a convenient punching bag. The Arabs are resource rich but divided, weak and as the Iraq war showed, military pushovers. It is in their interest to end their conflict with Israel, turn around and face their true historic enemy – the Persians.
Sep 26, 2009 - 2:20 pm 61. Sapwolf:What will happen is Iran will get there bomb, and a nuclear arms race will develop. Israel will set up missles with nuclear warheads ready to launch on all the major targets in the Middle East on a moments notice.
This may or may not get other nations to work to discourage Iran.
Obama is just so weak, a mere child with no balls. I’m reading Freddoso’s book. Obama’s gutlessness is nothing new. It has been the story of his life. He is NOT going to become a tiger overnight.
Israel is truly in a dangerous situation that gets more precarious as time goes by. The Iranian regime is teetering somewhat but will make sure that before they fall they get at least one nuke ready to use or secretly get into Israel somehow.
Sep 26, 2009 - 3:07 pm 62. Wallace:“They have cheated three times,” one senior administration official with access to the intelligence said of the Iranians late on Thursday evening. “And they have now been caught three times.”
Actually, you can make that four times caught cheating…
Actually, they have cheated at least three times. It’s pretty stupid of the senior administration official to assume that the intelligence agencies knows every cheating instance by Iran. It’s preposterous to say that the number of actual cases is exactly the same as the number of caught cases.
Sep 26, 2009 - 6:21 pm 63. alex:On Oct. 25, 1962, the Cuban Missile Crisis would have not had the same ending if Obama was President. A decision was made that day Obama doesn’t have to wisdom to make in a million years”
The Cuban Missile crisis was averted because a Russian Submarine Commander kept his cool under pressure, Otherwise we would not be chatting today. This is usually how History truly unfolds, someone in a position to tip the scales one way or the other keeps their cool and makes the right decision, and its not the individuals credited.
History books may paint a different picture; US removed missiles from Turkey, Russia removed from Cuba…but it was a Russian Sub Commander that held the world in his hands and made the right decision.
His Name is Vasily Arkhipov and the world owes him, not Kennedy, not anyone else, sincere gratitude.
As far as Iran, the US has completed work and is is stockpiling a Bomb that can penetrate 60 Meters of Cement / reinforced concrete. It is specifically built to destroy deep underground bunkers or break through reinforced structures such as nuclear reactors. It is dropped from B52 or B2, as its too heavy for other plane. There are several dozen in inventory. The Bomb weighs 30,000 Pounds and guided by Precision GPS. This is what will take out the Iranian reactor, as there will only be one opportunity.
Sep 28, 2009 - 5:07 am 64. Paul -Indiana:With regard to Obama, can we all say ‘taqiyyah’? He appears to be determined to put the Muslim world’s military power on par with the West’s.
Sep 28, 2009 - 12:19 pm