Pajamas Media

24 Comments

1. Craig:

Unfortunately, the difference(s) between conservative and Republican has/have grown considerably. For a conservative, the idea that you have to ‘win over’ anybody is absurd. The principles and underlying attributes of true conservatism stand on their own merits. And black Americans like Michael Steele, Thomas Sewell, Walt Williams, Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele and others GET THAT.

Dec 4, 2008 - 4:29 am 2. njcommuter:

We have heard from time to time of how Western culture is a Guilt culture while the Arab world is a Shame culture. In a Shame culture, it’s not what you did, but what people say you did; you must protect public ‘honor’ regardless of your real guilt. If the Guilt culture is built on a higher morality, or if it sustains that higher morality, then ‘reversion’ to a Shame culture is bad news. And that’s what “White Guilt” is–reversion to a Shame culture in which the issue is not real guilt, but shame imposed externally.

Dec 4, 2008 - 5:42 am 3. DCCIII:

Obviously, the writer is not familiar with Mr. Steele’s extremely poor record in Maryland, both as Lt. Gov. and as a defeated U.S.Senate candidate. He classified himself as a “moderate” when he served with Mr. Ehrlich. As the huge loser to Ben Cardin, Steele aligned himself with “the maverick”/McCain. His written responses to the Baltimore Sun clearly show he is a RHINO, at best. A nice guy, but certainly no conservative!!!

Dec 4, 2008 - 6:42 am 4. Bill in NY:

The navel gazing to win the game of party politics is pathetic. How should Republicans try to win black voters? The answer is contained in the question itself: wrong question! Who are Republicans? Conservative? The Republican party didn’t just abandon those of us who suppoted Ronald Reagan’s idea of a smaller government, with more individual responsibility and freedom. They sold us down the river, shot us in the back, betrayed us, and laughed all the way to the bank. I’ld like to know WHO the hell the Republican Party really is and what they stand for? Sign me… a conservative in search of a Party.

Dec 4, 2008 - 6:55 am 5. Carolb:

As long as black Republicans or conservatives are referred to as Uncle Tom’s by most of the African American community, I don’t think things will change for the GOP. Blacks criticize the Republicans for not having more minorities in the party…yet, those blacks who do join the party are ridiculed or called names for doing so.

I think some kind of public relations campaign, by black (and Hispanic) Republicans, male and female, explaining why they are Republican, would be a good idea. Because, right now, most people don’t know what the party stands for. I think if you’d ask most blacks and young people today, they’d say the party stands for rich, racist, warmongers, who only care about the well to do, and want to take away a woman’s right to choose.

The funny thing is, most blacks I know (and I’m black) are quite conservative, at least socially, and are just as religious as the so-called religious right.

Dec 4, 2008 - 7:32 am 6. J.J. Sefton:

#5. Carolb makes some good points. A large majority of blacks and Hispanics voted in favor of Prop 8, though the homosexual community and their liberal-left wing allies are attacking Mormons and white Christians primarily (gee, I wonder why). Social/religious issues are one important factor that the black community has in common with conservatives. The deeper problem is showing how Democrats have historically used them and kept them as victims to serve their (the dems) political ends. In short, how does one destroy the notion of “authentically black?”

Dec 4, 2008 - 8:47 am 7. Tex Taylor:

I agree with Bill in NY. I’m beginning to wonder what happened to the Republican party I knew 25 years ago. We’re so desperate that it is now required to pander and masquerade? If I were black and conservative, I would be offended at what I’m reading. What ever happened to having the best ideas, explaining why, and leaving it to the will of the voters? A lot of what I read on PJM reads like Dimocrat 101.

Quit pandering for votes, take a firm stand about issues, implement them given the chance, and then middle class blacks might recognize their best interests don’t belong with race baiting pimps, but with smaller government.

Urban, black America is so ingratiated in a Sugar Daddy Big Government, it’s a waste of time trying to convince them the Dimocrats use them every two years for a vote, then cast them off conveniently until needed again. It’s a waste of time and resources.

You want Republicans to win an election with a strong minority vote? Here’s how. America can secure our borders without making Hispanics feel like some inferior species. There isn’t a man on this board worth his salt who wouldn’t be jumping fences, swimming rivers, or hiding in eighteen wheelers, if it meant traveling to some strange locale to feed his family. And these people are far more conservative and far harder working than most American Conservatives I know.

Can the draconian measures and work on some semblance of real immigration reform, while making Hispanics feel welcome as equals instead of criminals.

Times may be a changing, makeup be a changing, but principles should never change to accommodate winning a vote.

Dec 4, 2008 - 9:20 am 8. WJ:

James Taranto of the column “Best of the Web” on Wall Street Journal made an interesting point on this topic (sorry can’t find the link).

His point was that there had been very strong group votes in the past such as Irish and Italian immigrants, Catholics, etc. At some point the “group” gets a high profile win (ie JFK for the Catholics) at the group vote then starts to fragment to more of the norm of rest of the voters.

About the rest of it, the way to reach Black Americans is the way to reach all Americans, with conservative principles, ideas, and definitive actions that are followed through.

Dec 4, 2008 - 9:23 am 9. Agoraphobic Plumber:

“Can the draconian measures and work on some semblance of real immigration reform, while making Hispanics feel welcome as equals instead of criminals.”

The Hispanics who aren’t criminals ARE welcomed as full equals, at least around here and by me. I suspect the same is true over most of the country. Who has time to hate Hispanics “just because?”

The major part of the real answer in my view is to drastically increase the number of work visas granted to Hispanics and vastly increase the penalties to employers of illegals. “Here’s a whole workforce for you, but you will automatically go bankrupt if you now continue to ignore the rules, and we’ll spend your penalty money on enforcement.”

I don’t see another workable way.

Dec 4, 2008 - 11:32 am 10. Barrett:

CarolB and Bill in NY are on the right track. The PR campaign Carol needs to explain why black conservatives became successful and why it makes sense for other blacks to pursue a conservative model. Confront the Uncle Tom “failure is success” fallacy head on. As Bill notes, the Republican Party needs to return to conservative principles.

RINOs, whether white, black or purple, ultimately have an incoherent and conflicted message, leaving no real differentiation. For example, McCain and Obama were both for illegal immigration and the destruction of the economy via anti-global warming measures. There was no difference.

Conservatives simply need to explain how conservative principles work and why they make sense both for America as a whole and for individual citizens. If Republicans do this and get rid of the big government RINOs, they will win again and maybe freedom in America can be saved.

Dec 4, 2008 - 12:14 pm 11. Tex Taylor:

The Hispanics who aren’t criminals ARE welcomed as full equals, at least around here and by me. I suspect the same is true over most of the country. Who has time to hate Hispanics “just because?”

I’m sure that is true. But the problem is in the Hispanic communities, the perception is that Republicans are out to get them. I know, because I live beside one who is tired of feeling 3rd world. He’s a classic conservative in every regard, couldn’t stand Obama, but chose to not vote for any Presidential candidate.

He’s the guy the Republican leadership ought to be talking to…

Dec 4, 2008 - 12:17 pm 12. e. nonee moose:

Tex said:

Urban, black America is so ingratiated in a Sugar Daddy Big Government, it’s a waste of time trying to convince them the Dimocrats use them every two years for a vote, then cast them off conveniently until needed again. It’s a waste of time and resources.

I say you don’t have any proof that it’s a waste of time and resources, because, quite frankly, the GOP doesn’t spend enough time and resources on courting the black vote to know if their efforts are effective or not. This is the ultimate failure of the GOP, the inability to build a coalition of many different interest groups.

Dec 4, 2008 - 2:31 pm 13. tanstaafl:

For a conservative, the idea that you have to ‘win over’ anybody is absurd. The principles and underlying attributes of true conservatism stand on their own merits.

That’s pretty much the way I see it (tho’ I don’t affix the label “conservative” or any other label to myself.) The notion of “courting” any particular group, or re-positioning to “win over” or whatever does not seem like an intelligent strategy or, even, a viable strategy.

It seems more like of “identity politics” where minds don’t center around principles & ideas but around categories of human beings,focusing on characteristics ike race, gender, age, ethnic group, religion, you name it.

b-o-r-i-n-g, but I swear to Buddha , without such kinds of appeals to identity groups (hence, divisiveness), Democrats today wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell.

You either get the founding principles of this country or you don’t, and, given the sorry state of public education in America for decades now, I’d say that the majority of voters don’t get it at all.

Dec 4, 2008 - 2:39 pm 14. Rachel Peepers:

Andrew,

I wanted you to explain to me specifically what conservatives need to do to win over more black voters, I mean other than just being conservative.

If it were up to me to decide, I wouldn’t know what to say or do.

At least not today.

When George W. Bush took office, I thought it was the Republican Party’s golden opportunity to reduce the culture of poverty in the United States, with a special emphasis on poor black America. Politically, I think it would have been smart, but more than that, I think it was the right thing to do.

Like dealing with AIDS in Africa, I think, in 2000 America, we should have spoken loudly and honestly about bettering the life of poor America. What John Edwards called two Americas, (a cynical way to put it) is what I’m talking about. But all President Bush did, as I see it, was make symbolic gestures showing that a black can ascend to any office in the nation. Condi Rice and Colen Powell were wonderful appointments, but politically I don’t think they produced significant black vote.

While I’m not ready to write off the black vote, something has to happen between now and 2012 before we see a turnaround in their voting patterns. And I don’t know what that something is.

As far as McCain’s unwillingness to use Wright and his horrible dancing with Ellen and many of Barack’s idiotic statements for fear of being branded a racist, all of these decisions sunk John’s chances of winning. These were terrible mistakes. What were they thinking?

But they don’t stop there.

The McCain team misused Sarah Palin terribly. When everybody knew that Gibson and Katie were out to get her, they put Sarah out there like a sacrificial lamb, like a babe in the woods just waiting to be hammered. What a profound blunder. Palin is a political homerun hitter and they asked her to do the equivalent of trying to draw a walk. And she got beaned in the process.

In 2008, the unpopularity of George Bush was difficult to overcome. Plus, McCain’s political crew ran a disaster of a campaign. I’m amazed the election was close as it was.

Dec 4, 2008 - 11:32 pm 15. WestGuard:

Only a new crop of “conservative minded” rappers and hip hoppers can save the day, since these are the folks that todays black youth are most infuenced by.
I guess it’s just not “cool” to be a conservative.

Dec 5, 2008 - 10:06 am 16. J. Rockford:

I have seen a superb black politician — Michael Steele — lose to a typical white lib — Cardin — in Maryland. Steele lost because three big counties — Baltimore, Prince George & Montgomery went for Cardin. All other Maryland counties voted for Steele. These three counties are predominently black.

Tired of having my candidates lose in large part due to the 95+ black vote going to libs who promise them everything and never deliver, I say good riddance to the black vote. Let them stay in the inner city ghettos (or prisons) and let them watch the hispanics and other immigrants PASS THEM BY! They can wait for January 20th when B. Hussein Obama will pay their gas and rent. LOL.

Dec 5, 2008 - 1:46 pm 17. thinking mom:

What of the large blocks of single families? I spsuect these mostly girl/women headed families are alost totally Democratic. And I don’t see the DEMS interested in reducing their number any time soon…

HOW IS TEEN SEXUALITY PERCEIVED BY MANY TEACHERS??? DO THEY DO ANYTHING TO CHALLENGE TEENS TO WORK TOWARDS SELF CONTROL? aND TOWARDS THE 2 PARENT FAMILY (OR THE SINGLE PARENT FAMILY ATTACHING ITSELF TO QUALITY, SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS???)

OR DO THEY WANT THIS VOTING BLOC TO LIVE ON AS A MOSTLY DEM VOTING BLOC???

…(One Chicago teacher I talked to had a scornful pim*p attitude towards teen sexuality. He acted appropriately towards them personally, but saw no reason to challenge them to move to a higher standard sexually…Just wanted to hand them the anti pregnancy devices —which as we can see, have not and do not prevent large amounts of pregnant teens…

Mabe the Reps need to value these mostly single family people – As an adoptive mom of a child born to a single teen, I can’t imagine the world without him!

Dec 6, 2008 - 5:54 am 18. Jack:

Black Republicans are not thought of as uncle toms, maybe some of the racists you hang out with Carolb. The problem is the Republicans by nature are exclusionary and selfish, and lopsided in their approach to fairness. Historically the Dems are the only ones that have addressed blacks issues and concerns. Now with that in mind, who would you vote for? You go with who’s on your side. The only way the Reps will get more black voters is to disassociate themselves from the KKK, the neonazis and the white supremacists. And show that they are concerned about the middle and lower classes, that they are for civil rights, and believe that all Americans are equal. Otherwise, forgetaboutit.

Dec 6, 2008 - 10:40 pm 19. zeppenwolf:

> …in a democracy, it is an inherently unstable arrangement for 90% of any electorate to consistently vote one way.

Says who?

Blacks have been voting Dem to this extent for years– if that is an “inherently unstable” pattern, it’s a remarkably stable “inherently unstable” pattern.

Same thing with Jews… Really any “group” that puts perception and historical biases over reality.

Unless you expect liberals to suddenly surrender their near monopolies in the “mainstream” media, academia, Hollywood, etc, etc, then don’t expect this “inherently unstable” voting pattern to change anytime soon.

Dec 7, 2008 - 6:32 pm 20. Mr X:

“The only way the Reps will get more black voters is to disassociate themselves from the KKK”
read your history. the Democrats founded the KKK and the KKK served as the terrorist wing of the Democrat Party for 90 years.

Dec 8, 2008 - 11:31 am 21. Assistant Village Idiot:

Mr. X, Jack is dealing in impressions, not facts. Reading history will be unpersuasive. Political cartoons or TV comedy might be more helpful.

But you knew that already. I’m just trying to remind you to lower your blood pressure. You’re welcome.

Dec 8, 2008 - 11:50 am 22. Ann:

Since Republicans and conservatives claim to pursue ideas in the political arena, why should we have to “court black voters” or any other group?

If we have to “court black voters”, then do we also have to court Mexican voters, homosexual voters, pregnant voters, Muslim voters, welfare voters, rich voters, rural voters, law-abiding voters, criminal voters……oh, that’s right, we already do.

No wonder we are no longer the party of ideas.

We’ve allowed the PC crowd to Balkanize the Republican party as the Democrat party was Balkanized decades ago.

It’s too bad the effort to THINK has been deemed too complicated for the average voter. Which reminds me, we also must learn to court the really stupid voter. (For hints on how to do that, review the ‘08 Obama campaign)

Dec 9, 2008 - 6:32 am 23. Pappadave:

To Jack (Post 18.)
That may be the most ill-informed post I’ve ever read anywhere on the internet. Your perception of conservatives in general and Republican conservatives in particular, is so dead wrong that it’s scary anyone would have the temerity to post it anywhere–much less here. It was a Republican President who freed the black slaves. It was a CONSERVATIVE who integrated the American military. Admittedly, he was a Democrat at that time, but he would NOT be welcomed into the Democrat Party of today. It was a Republican administration who filed “friend of the court briefs” in support of the eventual desegregation of the public schools by the USSC in the Brown vs. Board of Education decision. It was REPUBLICAN votes which insured the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voters Rights Act, without which the two bills would have been defeated by a MAJORITY Democrat Congress. LBJ even THANKED Congressional Republicans for their support afterwards and made it plain that the two bills would have failed but for GOP support. The fastest class movement of any group during the Eisenhower administration was black families moving upward into the middle and upper-middle classes. During the Reagan administration, the black middle class was moving faster than any other group into the upper economic classes. That movement came to a screeching halt when Clinton took office and started punishing entrepeneurs with confiscatory tax policies.

LBJ’s so-called “War on Poverty” did more to destroy the nuclear black family than anything done in recent decades, with the possible exception of the Democrat-inspired idea that only a black teacher is competent to teach a black student and only a black politician is capable of addressing the interests of black constituents. In the case of the former, when the bureaucracy mandated that inner-city schools needed to replace competent teachers with black teachers, the schools all scrambled to find any black man or woman with a degree who was willing to teach. As a consequence, they hired lots of people who were in no way capable of teaching, but were attracted to the job because it paid relatively well and offered tenure which is essentially permanent job security. In the case of the latter, the black community wound up with Adam Clayton Powell, NYC Mayor Dinkins, and the dozens of black Congresscritters who are venal and are interested in NOTHING except keeping their jobs. My own Congressman, Republican J.C. Watts, Jr., was DENIED access to and membership in the Black Congressional Caucus. Why? He was a conservative and they simply couldn’t stand having a contrary voice in their midst. Note that the organization is NOT called “The Black Liberal Congressional Caucus” or “The Black Democrat Congressional Caucus.”

But back to the “War on Poverty.” The entrenched bureaucracy came up with almost insane “rules” for receiving “free government money” in the many give-aways that made up the WOP. For example, a family could NOT receive AFDC (Aid to Families With Dependent Children) payments if the household included an able-bodied man. The result was black fathers left their families (or hid their presence from the “inspectors” who checked up on recipient families from time to time.) This eventually devolved into a situation where black men simply didn’t marry the mothers of their children in the first place. Secondly, the government rewarded having children out of wedlock–particularly for teen-age girls who were often rebelling against their autocratic mothers and needed an excuse to leave home (and very likely school as well.) If a girl got pregnant and moved away, the government would step in and give the girl housing, medical, food, child care, job training and placement assistance and would even INCREASE her welfare checks if she got pregnant and had more kids–and the perception settled in that it was only Democrats who “wanted to help them.” Over the next 35 years (and $8 TRILLION in welfare down the rat-hole) “poverty” wasn’t reduced by a single percentage point.

I KNOW that there were more white families on welfare than black families, but we’re talking here about the black community…not “the poor”…so that’s beside the point of this discussion. The point is that there was a higher percentage of black families on welfare than either whites or Hispanics. When the Republican Congress of 1998 finally FORCED welfare reform through, some blacks had become so acclimated to the entitlement culture that they were furious with conservatives in general and Republican conservatives in particular.

Which is more “compassionate”? Giving “free” stuff to people in need (which the government has to take by force, or threat of force, from those who’ve earned it) or creating an economic climate in which ANYONE can succeed economically if they are willing to work, save, get an education and improve their own futures?

Dec 23, 2008 - 7:30 pm 24. Pappadave:

By the way, Jack. All Americans are NOT “equal.” They all have equal opportunity, but to suggest that they are “equal” in talents, abilities, intellects, strengths, weaknesses or ambitions is to simply deny reality–which may be the hallmark of liberalism…denial of reality and human nature.

Dec 23, 2008 - 7:38 pm

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