Pajamas Media

50 Comments

1. Snake eater:

Obama is destroying this country on purpose. He needs to be stopped.

Jun 12, 2009 - 12:22 am 2. vivo:

The problem with the auto industry is that if you build what people want you may be building the wrong things. You need to be flexible and quick to correct your mistakes. That’s no easy task for such a complex business.

One of the solutions is smart engineering design. People are going to buy the best available design. Look at computers. They get better all the time and you don’t go asking people about what’s best, you design it, look at Apple.

The brain power is there, what we need is leadership and great management. Do they teach that in school?

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:43 am 3. Want What:

America wanted this man..

America couldn’t wait long enough for this man..

No matter what this man did, or didn’t do America could not get enough of this man..

And in spite of what is written in this article, and thousands of similar articles everyday, no matter what kind of damage he causes, or outright lies he spews, America in mass still sucks up to this man like he is some kind of a god..

Hence, this time I feel that America should get what it says that it wants. Not just part, but all of it!

Right up to the point in time where the government controls and takes care of every aspect and day of their lives. From when, where and how not to drop their shorts to hiding in their homes filled with fear of being taken by Obama’s civil service brown suit militiamen, America this time; more than it ever has needs to get as much of what it says that it wants as possible!

Isn’t that how Hope and Change works?

The important thing isn’t bankruptcy.

What matters most to Americans now is Obama!

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:54 am 4. vivo:

oops, wrong thread above.

“Enthusiasts of government-run health care like to try to explain away Medicare’s skyrocketing costs by noting that health-care costs are rising nationwide. They are – but not nearly as fast as Medicare’s.”

Somebody needs to find the reasons why these costs are going up and curb them.

“This year’s deficit is not only higher, but twice as high (12% of GDP versus 6% of GDP) as the highest deficit of the Reagan-era Cold War defense buildup (money well spent, but still spent).”

What’s more important, defense spending or health care spending?

How about chopping down military spending, it’s a huge chunk.

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:55 am 5. Paul:

Stalin and Lenin got rid of Russian Royalty, Hitler got rid of Jewish doctors and professors, Pol Pot cleaned out civil bureaucrats.

Sometimes you have to destroy to build a new, bright and shining future. Naturally, some good people and things will get hurt, but ahhh, um, you know. Progress.

Besides, your kids kids will need basic Cuban style health medics in the shoe factories, gluing on shoe soles to raise foreign capital to pay off all these debts our glorious Republican and Democrat leaders are building up on us. A sick tax serf, is an unproductive tax serf.

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:04 am 6. Terry Gain:

VIA GATEWAY PUNDIT

Top aides to Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) called a last-minute, pre-emptive strike on Wednesday with a group of prominent Democratic lobbyists, warning them to advise their clients not to attend a meeting with Senate Republicans set for Thursday.

Russell Sullivan, the top staffer on Finance, and Jon Selib, Baucus’ chief of staff, met with a bloc of more than 20 contract lobbyists, including several former Baucus aides.

“They said, ‘Republicans are having this meeting and you need to let all of your clients know if they have someone there, that will be viewed as a hostile act,’” said a Democratic lobbyist who attended the meeting.

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:38 am 7. Cato:

But who will bell the cat? Anyone who tries will be eaten.

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:45 am 8. sbourg55:

Excellent that you kept your facts and figures so basic, because most people have no clue. Too bad the MSM doesn’t EVER do that!
The other fact is important: Of the $2.4T or so federal tax revenue, about $1.2T is federal income taxes from individuals. That right there shouts out how insane it is to have a couple of years of Obama deficits that are WAY over $1T………no need to explain. The workers/taxpayers of our country are screwed with a capital “F” under Obama…….and thus our economy and economic growth! We are in serious trouble with this semi-socialist who has no idea what’s killing our global competitiveness…….and what will harm it even more (his policies!).

Jun 12, 2009 - 4:57 am 9. Veritas:

Well,well. The abortion and contraceptive chickens are coming home to roost! A declining birthrate and an increase in retirees with fewer young people to support them. Can euthanasia be far behind?

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:07 am 10. cedarhill:

Another warning. Invest in commodities (not gold, but real every day commodities). Inflation is inflation, devaluation is still devaluation. The bubble will burst. Commodities. At least whatever you pay for a gallon of gas today you’ll pay the same equivalent if you invest in commodities.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:30 am 11. BC:

Ummm…you kind of laid out why there is a huge need for healthcare reform to reign in costs, but then bashed Obama for wanting to do this. Maybe you should go back to writing speeches for tax cheats.

Jun 12, 2009 - 5:53 am 12. Fred Beloit:

#4
“Somebody needs to find the reasons why these costs are going up…”

Healthcare costs go up because of the violation of the law of supply and demand. People with certain types of healthcare insurance (i.e., company-paid and government-paid) feel (son, ah say FEEL) that their healthcare is free, that they don’t have to pay anything for it. When healthcare costs go up, these people feel no pain, so they don’t pare back their demand and they don’t complain. Why should they, it’s free.
Will total government-paid healthcare solve this problem? No, not without denying some procedures and drugs to folks who, the government bureaucrats will determine in their infinite wisdom, don’t really need them, don’t need them right away, or won’t really benefit much from them.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:34 am 13. Rick:

so what to do about it? what does the average person do about this? nothing. we sit by, and watch it unfold like a slow speed train wreck.

personally, i fear our government and the state apparatus now built up to control us. better to maintain a low profile as i work in a sensitive industry (nuclear power) and for this reason will never attend a tea party, though it is the right thing to do.

what will be done though, is to work at the polls during our next several election cycles. this crowd will stop at NOTHING to stay in power, and stealing elections will become routine in the not to distant future.

Jun 12, 2009 - 6:53 am 14. SteveM:

Why are medicare costs going up? It’s the govt. stupid. Name one govt program that is a success. All the govt. can do is add pork on top of pork. If Obama wants us to have national health care then we should demand we get the same coverage as the congress gets. And nothing less. That will stop them.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:02 am 15. anton:

#4
“Somebody needs to find the reasons why these costs are going up…”

Because each year hundreds of new drugs and procedures come into the market, these cost money. Twenty years ago you could not get an MRI anywhere at any price. Now they are everywhere and used all of the time. It is a powerful diagnostic tools but it costs a lot money to run a test. The three million old folks with hip-replacements and the thousand-dollar-a-day HIV treaments aren’t helping a lot either, another set of bills that just weren’t paid twenty years ago because the treatment simply wasn’t available.

Everybody wants the very best care available but everybody wants it to cost less. That is rather like asking why airplanes cost so much today when, back in the day, the Wright Brothers managed to build one on their own in a garage.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:07 am 16. anton:

And on top of all that I will quote a post I saw on another forum; “I have seen public housing, I will pass on Public Health Care”.

Pretty much says it all.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:09 am 17. Meryl:

9. Veritas
“Can euthanasia be far behind?” Probably not.

Since we already have the “kill ‘em at the front end of life”, it isn’t that much of a reach to “kill ‘em at the back end of life”.

First, healthcare rationing has to be implemented, and then euthanasia (just a subheading under healthcare rationing) will be an extension of “controlling healthcare costs”.

Do you suppose we can actually elect a House of Representatives in 2010 that has enough guts to start drawing up articles of impeachment on Soetero?

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:12 am 18. Meryl:

11.BC

“Ummm…you kind of laid out why there is a huge need for healthcare reform to reign in costs, but then bashed Obama for wanting to do this. Maybe you should go back to writing speeches for tax cheats.”

Ummm…and you apparently support destroying the whole house just because there’s a problem with the waterproofing on the deck.

I find your reference to tax cheats puzzling. Aren’t they all on obama’s cabinet and staff? So they now have their own speechwriters.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:17 am 19. Ms. Attitude:

4. vivo:

Somebody needs to find the reasons why these costs are going up and curb them.

I worked at as a billing specialist for a very prosperous medical office. Medicare and Medicaid paid pennies on the dollar for procedures. The physicians were required to take what the “insurance” paid. Therefore, in our appointment slots we had very few a day for Medicare/Medicaid patients. Who could blame them, if they recieved that amount from every patient they wouldn’t be able to pay their overhead costs. The cost of the care for Medicare/Medicaid patients were passed along to the other patients. I spent hours on the phone with Medicare and Medicaid regarding care that they refused the patient stating that they didn’t see it as necessary. Yet the doctor did. Some of them were quality of life issues, such as a young boy who had excessive scaring on his forehead that covered his eye. The Medicaid review board said it was not necessary that it was cosmetic. You may say doctors make too much but why shouldn’t a doctor be rewarded for his knowledge and his time he spent in school.

I then took the position of medical staff assistant at the local hospital. Part of my job was ensuring the physicians were properly certified through CME’s and boards. I also made sure their insurance premiums were paid. I had never realized how much malpractice insurance cost. The riskier the procedures that they perform the higher the cost, and of course that is passed on to the patient. Maybe if people would stop sueing doctors at a drop of a hat the premiums would be lower and then reflected in the cost of medical care.

So, how will socialized medicine correct this? It won’t. There will be less doctors, longer waits for care, substandard care and decisions made by someone else for your healthcare.

How about chopping down military spending, it’s a huge chunk.

And where do you suppose we do the chopping in defense spending?

I suggest you read http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1993/04/art1abs.htm

Also remember that we do have enemies, and no, they weren’t created by Bush.

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:18 am 20. JED:

“As goes California, so goes the nation,” becomes more true more quickly.
As for health care reform the presentation is much like the economic stimulus and other high budget items this year. First make it sound like an impossible crisis because of the ruinous past, throw multiple and very expensive solutions at it, pass the legislation in a hurry, strong arm the opposition, and hope that it works.
The $2.5 trillion cost of health care in America is a startling number for which we are being asked to believe it without question. I would like to see the pie chart, the diagnostic record, of the allocation of those costs. How much of that is research, development, building and materials expense, and other infrastructure as compared to doctor’s fees and services rendered.
Declaring a problem is easy or imaginary. Diagnosing the problem is fundamental to the cure. Throwing medications and money at an unfounded problem is how politicians perform health care. Government bureacracy as the health care provider assures the old adage that, ” the operation was a success even if the patient dies.”

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:32 am 21. Chris:

“vivo: The problem with the auto industry is that if you build what people want you may be building the wrong things.”

What in hell does that mean? This is a capitalist society. If a company is producing what the customer wants, then by definition it is building the “right” things.

This is the sort of thinking that has gotten us into this mess. The government has no right to get involved in private industry beyond providing a civil justice system and setting a few safety and truth in advertising rules. What we actually need is LESS government involvement not more!

Socialized medicine is just more of the same power grab. We need to enforce the 10th amendment soon, or there won’t be a country left to save. When the Dictator finally comes to seize the reins of power we are now creating (and he will eventually come), all the people who fought the hardest for increasing government power will be the first to cry about how unfair it all is.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:05 am 22. alanstorm:

vivo:

“How about chopping down military spending, it’s a huge chunk.”

It should be a huge chunk – it’s spending on something that’s actually a REQUIRED function of government. Health care is not.

BC:

“Ummm…you kind of laid out why there is a huge need for healthcare reform to reign in costs, but then bashed Obama for wanting to do this.”

This should not be confusing – the health care reform needed involves LESS government involvment. Or do you think it’s a coincidence that costs keep rising as the government’s share of “responsibility” for health care increases?

Reform needed? yes. Socialized medicine needed? no.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:07 am 23. RE:

Somebody needs to find the reasons why these costs are going up and curb them.

Why are laywers and tort reform so frequently left out of the health care debate?

Lawyers are amongst the biggest culprits in driving up costs.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:09 am 24. J.T. Wenting:

“What in hell does that mean? ”
Just what he says, if a company wants what customers want rather than what the 5 year plan tells them to build they’re committing treason.

“This is a capitalist society. ”
Is it? It’s an Obamocracy. That’s not a democracy, that’s a central control economy. Production targets and price levels are set by the Obamocracy, soon consumption levels will be set as well and people penalised for not buying enough or buying the wrong things.
Think THX1138 combined with Stalist ideals.

“If a company is producing what the customer wants, then by definition it is building the “right” things.”
Not in the Obamocracy. It should build politically correct things, and the customers will come because once they realise that you’re building what’s politically acceptable they’ll realise that what they thought they wanted wasn’t what they really needed.

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:32 am 25. Delia:

I don’t want the government anywhere near my no-no hole. Nuff said?

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:47 am 26. Falconsword:

The free market is the only solution. Until your local clinic offers a weekly special on yearly exams, and you find a chart online with the price (IN FULL) of every procedure they offer, nothing will change. When my son was born I had no health insurance. We chose to have a home birth, both because my wife (justifiably) fears doctors and the ever ready needle of juice, and the cost. So as my son was approaching, the midwife became concerend. She thought she heard two heartbeats, and for a home birth this is not good. Most midwives will only deliver twins for Amish families (because they refuse to go to the doctor anyway), and often loose one.
So we bundled up and went to the local hospital for an ultra sound. An hour later we had one confirmed baby, and a bill for $125. Not too bad, I decided. Three weeks later as my wife was happily nursing our boy, another bill for $75 comes in the mail. “Post-insurance adjustment” was the description. They compared that months billing to insurance companies and decided the actual cost of the ultra sound was $200. Another month, and a FINAL, FINAL bill for another $50. This was ‘medicaid adjustment’, or subsidizing the medicaid unpaid portion from all the moochers. By this point I was not only shooting blood from my eyes, but I’d transformed forever from a republican to a libertarian.

Fix it? Only one thing will “WORK”! If the government gets involved, I quit. Read my blog. Who is John Galt?

Jun 12, 2009 - 8:57 am 27. The Shadow:

A dose of Reality

“As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada’s taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada’s health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn’t when everybody is covered.

Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.Ten percent of Canada’s GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have inadequate coverage. In essence, the U.S. system is considerably more expensive than Canada’s. Part of the reason for this is uninsured and underinsured people in the U.S. still get sick and eventually seek care. People who cannot afford care wait until advanced stages of an illness to see a doctor and then do so through emergency rooms, which cost considerably more than primary care services.

What the American taxpayer may not realize is that such care costs about $45 billion per year, and someone has to pay it. This is why insurance premiums increase every year for insured patients while co-pays and deductibles also rise rapidly.

Myth: Canada’s government decides who gets health care and when they get it.While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don’t get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists’ care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt says single-payer systems are not “socialized medicine” but “social insurance” systems because doctors work in the private sector while their pay comes from a public source. Most physicians in Canada are self-employed. They are not employees of the government nor are they accountable to the government. Doctors are accountable to their patients only. More than 90 percent of physicians in Canada are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Claims are submitted to a single provincial health care plan for reimbursement, whereas in the U.S., claims are submitted to a multitude of insurance providers. Moreover, Canadian hospitals are controlled by private boards and/or regional health authorities rather than being part of or run by the government.

Myth: There aren’t enough doctors in Canada.

From a purely statistical standpoint, there are enough physicians in Canada to meet the health care needs of its people. But most doctors practice in large urban areas, leaving rural areas with bona fide shortages. This situation is no different than that being experienced in the U.S. Simply training and employing more doctors is not likely to have any significant impact on this specific problem. Whatever issues there are with having an adequate number of doctors in any one geographical area, they have nothing to do with the single-payer system.

And these are just some of the myths about the Canadian health care system. While emulating the Canadian system will likely not fix U.S. health care, it probably isn’t the big bad “socialist” bogeyman it has been made out to be.

It is not a perfect system, but it has its merits. For people like my 55-year-old Aunt Betty, who has been waiting for 14 months for knee-replacement surgery due to a long history of arthritis, it is the superior system. Her $35,000-plus surgery is finally scheduled for next month. She has been in pain, and her quality of life has been compromised. However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Aunt Betty — who lives on a fixed income and could never afford private health insurance, much less the cost of the surgery and requisite follow-up care — will soon sport a new, high-tech knee. Waiting 14 months for the procedure is easy when the alternative is living in pain for the rest of your life.”

Rhonda Hackett of Castle Rock is a clinical psychologist

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:21 am 28. The Shadow:

If you read the articleby Antul Gawande in the New Yorker where he compares the cost of healtcare in a small texas town with the Mayo clinic, you can start to see the way to go

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:24 am 29. Penny:

Universal health care is another entitlement such as social security. Since social security and medicare will run out of money soon, how do the congress persons plan to fund this new entitlement? Obama and his manipulators hate america and want to kill its exceptionalism brought by those old dead white guy founders. they want to kill whitey.

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:31 am 30. hoads:

The Shadow:

Here’s your dose of reality:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/18/pardon-the-interruption/

(2) Americans have significantly better survival rates from cancer than Canadians? (Sources: United States Cancer Statistics, National Program of Cancer Registries, Centers for Disease Control; Canadian Cancer Society/National Cancer Institute of Canada; also June O’Neill and Dave M. O’Neill, “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality: Canada vs. the U.S.,” National Bureau of Economic Research, NBER Working Paper 13429, September 2007. Available at http://www.nber.org/papers/w13429.)

(3) Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than Canadians? (Source: O’Neill and O’Neill, “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality: Canada vs. the U.S.”)

(4) Americans have better access to preventive screening for major cancers than Canadians? (Source: O’Neill and O’Neill, “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality: Canada vs. the U.S.,” Table 8.)

(5) A marker for inequality of access and quality of health systems, the “health-income gradient” (i.e., that higher incomes achieve better health and lower incomes mean worse health) for adults 16 to 64 years old reveals a more severe disparity in Canada than in the United States? (Source: O’Neill and O’Neill, “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality: Canada vs. the U.S.”)

(6) In the United Kingdom and Canada, patients wait far longer than Americans (about twice as long, sometimes even more than a year) to see a specialist, have elective surgery like hip replacements or cataracts, or get radiation treatment for cancer? (Sources: “Waiting Your Turn, (17th edition) Hospital Waiting Lists In Canada”; Critical Issues Bulletin 2007; N. Esmail, Michael A. Walker MA, and M. Bank, Studies in Health Care Policy, August 2008; N. Esmail and D. Wrona “Medical Technology in Canada,” Fraser Institute; Sharon Willcox et al., “Measuring and Reducing Waiting Times: A Cross-National Comparison Of Strategies,” Health Affairs 26, No. 4 (July/August 2007): 1078-87; O’Neill and O’Neill, “Health Status, Health Care and Inequality: Canada vs. the U.S.,” M.V. Williams et al., “Radiotherapy Dose Fractionation, Access and Waiting Times in the Countries of the U.K.. in 2005,” Royal College of Radiologists, Clinical Oncology 19, No. 5 (June 2007, 273-286).

So you find it acceptable that your 55 yo aunt had to wait 14 months in pain to receive a knee replacement? I hope she wasn’t the primary breadwinner of her family–14 months is a long time to have restrictions on your mobility and have to deal with daily pain.

The operative word is “elective”. In Canada, elective is defined as anything that is not immediately life threatening. So what if you can’t work or endure constant pain or have no control of your bladder or are slowly going blind. And, that suspicious mass in your abdomen, brain, breast? Maybe cancer but maybe not so get on with your life while you wait 6-12-18 months for the diagnostic scan to determine if you have cancer, what type it is and what the treatment will be. And then you get to wait another few months to begin treatment. I guess Canadians are much less vulnerable to that kind of stress and anxiety than Americans.

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:19 am 31. anton:

@27. The Shadow

Please explain the recent scandals regarding cancer screening in the Maritimes and more recently in Ontario, thousands of people were told they were free of cancer because the only lab that was used to process the tests was incompetent. Hundreds died, many more survived with their lives shattered by having to undergo extreme measures to treat the advanced cancer when a timely diagnosis would have meant a minor operation and simple short-term treatment. My freinds in Windsor come to Michigan for treatment when they can afford it.

BTW the taxes thing is a poor comparison; look at all the thing Canada does not do (significant navy/army/airforce, foreign aid etc) on the world stage. You may get more bang for your tax dollar but are you spending billions fight AIDS in Africa and sending ships to tsunami victims. I am not impugning your character, it is just that so many nations have slumbered so long behind the wall that the US has built to keep the barbarians out that they have forgatten where their safety comes from, and at what cost.

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:31 am 32. hoads:

Obama will push through his Obamacare and will not look back. He knows 1) the number of uninsured is an inflated number and the majority are young and healthy anyway who will not immediately flood our health care system 2) if he says “If you like your current healthcare plan, you can keep it” and “I am not proposing socialized healthcare” enough, people will believe it and will happily follow his merry bandits wherever they lead 3) a $62 (current Medicaid rate) for a doctor visit will allow 483 people to visit a primary care doctor if he denies that $30,000 kidney transplant to the 66 year old. There–problem solved.

Jun 12, 2009 - 10:34 am 33. Ms. Attitude:

Why would someone want to be a doctor in a country with socialized medicine?

-long hours
-high levels of stress over a long period
-potential for malpractice suits
-malpractice insurance costs
-motivation to remain dedicated over years of education and training
-tuition costs, education debt will likely run well over $100,000 and often to $200,000 for medical school alone, not including any debt related to obtaining an undergraduate degree.
-sacrifice of time, sleep, and social life needed to succeed
-You likely will not graduate medical school until 26-27 years of age, assuming that you enter straight out of college. Then you will enter three years of internship and residency. After residency, some doctors focus on a particular specialty. Plan on continuing your training well into your 30s.

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:20 am 34. JED:

Continuing:
The name of the game is monopoly. This administration has positioned itself to monopolize the congress, the senate, the banking system,energy, the auto industry, employment, insurance companies, and health care. The object of the game is to monopolize the economy which by default would bankrupt the opposition.
The subject is health care. A government monopoly on health care puts a bureaucrat and a politician in the OR, exam room, and clinic who control the cash flow and help elect the proceedures. Good medicine becomes tertiary in the proposed system which is designed for expansion with no sunset clause. In monopoly there is only one winner, the government, who triumphs over the people. There is no winner there!

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:26 am 35. no name:

#1 oh snake eater, how crass ,rude and insensitive of you. the great shining ahole in the sky provides me with sustenance from his holy oriface and warmth from his unending radiance. you should hang your head in shame and repent of your evil ways and thoughts. you infidel.

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:51 am 36. Roderick Reilly:

“”"”"”"Maybe if people would stop sueing doctors at a drop of a hat the premiums would be lower and then reflected in the cost of medical care.”"”"”"”

Which begs the question: will we be allowed to sue a “government” doctor? I don’t know, just asking.

Shadow: Why DO Canadians have to come South for so many procedures NOT availabe up North? What are the deficiencies in the Canadian system that it can’t provide this care, and provide it in a timely fashion? Also, what will those Canadians do when we have a system like theirs? Just die, I suppose.

Come to think of it, what WILL the world do when the U.S. isn’t at the top of the international economic engine food chain?

Did you say “China” will take over? Get real: China is an export-dependent economy whose GDP is less than half that of the U.S. with more than four times the population.

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:28 pm 37. The Shadow:

Anton:

funny how a much higher precentage of Canadians like their healthcase system than Americans

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:37 pm 38. BC:

The bottom line is that people in the country pay about twice per capita for health care at the least than the other industrialized countries, and it still ranks very poorly in comparison, especially for the elderly.

While a lot of investigation is needed to figure out where is all the money going (a Boston Globe series from late last year showed there is deliberate obstruction by hospital groups when it comes to income and payouts, including making pretty much everyone employed to sign confidentiality & non-disclosure agreements regarding that any of that), I’m guessing that at the least Obama is looking at what was implemented in Massachusetts in 2006 where health care insurance became a requirement for all residents, with a tax penalty if they don’t show coverage. This came with some low cost basic insurance options that you could purchase through the state (but supplied by regular insurance carriers) at a much better price than you could get on your own. The primary target was the uninsured who often used emergency rooms for very costly (to everyone but the uninsured patients) doctor visits.

And to Meryl: well, as I’ve always contended, when Democrats steal, it’s at the retail level. Republicans, however….

Jun 12, 2009 - 2:49 pm 39. hoads:

BC, You need to google Massachusettscare–it’s been an unmitigated disaster. Costs are 40% more than predicted, waits for physicians are at record levels and the state is debating their next attempt to rein in the chaos.

We spend roughly 5-6% more of our GDP on healthcare than France (11.2%) and Canada(10%). While we may spend more on healthcare, they spend more on energy, food, housing. And besides, Americans have almost double the disposable income as Europeans and we spend a lot of it on healthcare.

Read #30. The US actually ranks the best in several areas. It only ranks low when the variables used for measurement are about egalitarianism and efficiency by the WHO/OECD. Based upon OECD’s own criteria, we rank the best in timeliness and appropriateness of treatment and we have one of the lowest wait times of all OECD countries.

Jun 12, 2009 - 3:53 pm 40. The Shadow:

ms attitude – First of all we are not going to get socialized medicine, but you do realize that the government pays 60% of the bills right now. If you are against medicare I hope you and your extended family is prepared to burn your card

Jun 12, 2009 - 7:08 pm 41. Ms. Attitude:

It seems like the left wingdings that post on Pajamas are against EVERYTHING that has to do with life, liberty and persuit of happiness. The same ones over and over again always arguing against everything! What miserable lives they must lead!

Did you guys come on here to learn from us or just harrass?

I grew up military and experienced “government” medical care. I worked in the medical field, working with Medicaid/Medicare…YOU DON”T WANT IT! I promise.

Jun 12, 2009 - 9:00 pm 42. JackT:

Stop buying prescription drugs from the big drug companies and we could pay for all the worlds medical bills. Most prescription drugs kill. So don’t listen to your doctor (their in on it too), do your research and manage your own health. Doctors in this country don’t even know the meaning of preventive measures, or alternative approaches to healing. Every single person in America should be able to get health care for free. We as a country can afford it. The pharmaceuticals make well over a trillion bucks a year peddling their crap, spending billions more on advertising. The Europeans are far healthier than we are, far more advanced in research and development of natural means of cure. They exercise more, eat less, don’t carry guns and are more tolerant of different races. If Obama turned us into France or England that would be just fine.

Jun 12, 2009 - 11:43 pm 43. MisterH:

#42 JackT:

That’s a great idea- we’ll just stop buying prescription drugs from the “big” drug companies. We’ll start buying them from the Mom & Pop drug companies in the neighborhood. Instead of those awful anitbiotics I had to take when I had the kidney infection I’ll try the Indian health food proprieter downtown and he can set me up with one of those tried and true poultices of buffalo dung. You are correct on one thing- the western Euro-weenie countries do have a slightly longer average life expectancy than the U.S.- by about six months. Though to be honest, I’m not thrilled about trading roughly six more months of life after age 77 for Euro style, nanny state living.

Funny, you’d think with the advantages you cite of living in Europe that Europeans would be happier, but they’re not. I read some interesting poll results that attempted to gauge levels of optimism or life satisfaction and the Euros are strangely quite an unhappy, fatalistic bunch. Americans are far more optimistic and positive while the French, Germans, Italians and Spanish & Belgians are sour on just about everything. Not surprisingly, they are so miserable they seem to have stopped reproducing. Most of the Western Euro nations (the U.K being the exception) have fallen off a cliff in terms of birthrates over the last 30 years: they are at lowest- low fertility rates; meaning they are BELOW population replacement levels. You’d think with all that free health care, good food, and cultural superiority they’d be walkiing on air and reproducing like mad, but the exact opposite is happening- they are dying off in every sense. Their economies are dying. Their people are dying, they are commiting suicide in a sense. Is that the big payoff for being so superior to us dumb, blighted Americans?

As to your assertion about them being “more tolerant of different races,” I have to call B.S. on that one. Precisely how did you divine that they have a demonstrably more tolerant society than ours? Could it be all the non-white faces you see of all the heads of their governments? Funny, I see photos of Euro heads of state and various ministers and I just see the usual pasty-faced, rogues gallery of upper-middle aged bureaucrats. Guess they must be keeping all the evidence of their racial inclusiveness under wraps somewhere else.

Jun 13, 2009 - 11:05 am 44. acj:

The world is 500 trillion dollars in debt.

Healthcare is the last greedy SOB left in our country-blood sucking weasels that have mowed down our base of business-they are our last enemy. If we can rope in the greedy little HMO’s we will be on our way to profit and prosperity. Next is to reform our schools and make them green.

Jun 13, 2009 - 3:20 pm 45. vivo:

19. Ms. Attitude:

Your story is very compelling and doesn’t speak well about our current medical billing system. The question is still ‘who’s going to fix it’?

As far as reducing defense spending and your view that it reduces employment, yes, that’s the price we pay, but other opportunities always open in our dynamic economy.

21. Chris:

“If a company is producing what the customer wants, then by definition it is building the “right” things.”

Not necessarily, the gas guzzling designs are not the right thing in our future. Or the supersizing of fast food. Or the feeding of drugs to our hypochondriac society.

22. alanstorm:

““How about chopping down military spending, it’s a huge chunk.”

It should be a huge chunk – it’s spending on something that’s actually a REQUIRED function of government. Health care is not.”

Health care is NOT a function of government? I find this baffling. OSHA? FDA? Surgeon General? CDC?

12. Fred Beloit:

“Healthcare costs go up because of the violation of the law of supply and demand. People with certain types of healthcare insurance (i.e., company-paid and government-paid) feel (son, ah say FEEL) that their healthcare is free,”

Yes, people are wasteful. Medical people have told me to do this or that ‘because your insurance will pay for it’. Or not shopping for cost of medications even if covered by insurers.

Jun 14, 2009 - 5:35 am 46. The Historian:

ON THE ECONOMY: TEAM OBAMA IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME
Guess work doesn’t get it done.

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/06/even-biden-notes-stimulus-not-really.html

Jun 14, 2009 - 4:28 pm 47. Someone75:

Funny. I thought Bush was the one who was president during the previous eight years when the country drove off the cliff. Obama is cleaning you up mess. The least you can do is be grateful.

Fact: Republican greed and stupidity has almost ruined America. Obama is taking drastic measures. Relax and let the man work.

Jun 14, 2009 - 5:47 pm 48. BC:

To Hoads: Actually the Massachusetts plan has turned out to be more successful than planned – the state has the highest rate of insured residents, which was the basic idea. The minuses has been that the unexpected success of the plan, which is partly subsidized by the state, has turned out more expensive than planned, and the subsequent falling economy hasn’t helped. There have been more people added to doctor’s rosters, which has caused long waits for visits, but the odd doctor shortage was a trend already in place outside of the Mass plan (it was caused by a decision in the 1980’s by the AMA and others to not open up any more US medical schools for fear of a future doctor surplus.)

The main drawback to the plan is that it didn’t really address any of the core reasons for escalating health costs and doctor shortages, but as a state plan, it really couldn’t. A national health care plan can, though, if implemented properly.

As far as the quality of this country’s health care compared to other countries, I have no idea personally how good or bad Canada is, but a WHO ranking had it at #30 compared to #37 for the US, so the care level would probably have some plus/minus advantages for each. From personal experience, though, European health care treatment is across the board better, especially for the elderly, and generally more advanced.

Jun 15, 2009 - 5:03 am 49. Well Educated Cad:

Canada does not have the Illegal alien problem we have, nor the ghettos and our insane malpractice legal system. And we consider a preemie born at 28 weeks who dies as an “infant death” which hurts our statistics while other countries would call that child a “miscarriage”. Different statistics, different rankings. And if the Canadian system is so wonderful, why are so many of their doctors and nurses moving here?

Jun 15, 2009 - 8:48 pm 50. Bill Adkins:

Wow – you’re selling your koolaid by the tanker truck today. less than 5% of the stimulus has been disbursed – but Obama per your screwball logic has ‘bankrupted a nation.’ The truth, something of which you have no grasp, is that the Republicans brought us the Great Depression II, just like they did the first one. And it was foreseeable!!! The Republicans and George W. Bush delivered Idiocracy. Presented with a booming economy in 2001 and a $5.2 trillion national debt it took 220+/- years to accrue, Bush exceeded expectations, gave us policies and ‘business friendly’ deregulation that wrecked the economy and doubled the national debt in only 8 years. Heckuva job.

Jun 16, 2009 - 1:52 pm

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