Pajamas Media

50 Comments

1. steve:

Automated machinery would probably be doing it by now … had their not been another short-term option.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:38 am 2. Mabel:

I completely agree. The work ethic in this country is rapidly dissapearing. Just look at teenagers working in fast food joins (the most grueling work they will endure) and all you get is attitude. Retail clerks (teenagers and adults) treat customers like you are disturbing their day when asking for help. No wonder a lot of these employers prefer immigrants for labor intensive jobs that are piece of cake compare to those where they come from.
This attitude is not limited to low paying jobs. Big corporations have to hired experts to “motivate” the entitled-minded millenium generation that was raised by parents that taught them they are special.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:43 am 3. David Thomson:

“If anyone deserves to be treated like that it’s the employers who often get off scot-free.”

Agreed. Employers must be punished for breaking the law. We also must make it easy for them to verify the employment status of their prospective employees.

“Automated machinery would probably be doing it by now … had their not been another short-term option.”

This may especially be true in the farming industry. A number of other countries lacking cheap labor have long ago modernized their methods.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:58 am 4. A Stoner:

Sorry, but immigrants can do the work, if there are not enough (legal) immigrants then two things will happen. 1) wages will be increased to attract more workers. 2) working conditions will be improved to attract more workers.

Likely it will be a good combination of both work conditions and pay. The costs will be passed onto the consumer as modest inflation.

While this may seem bad, in that the price of food will go up, it will benifit the whole of America by keeping the vast majority of the money created from the work in the country instead of being sent back to a third world country. Money being sent back to third world countries is never invested in the country by improving employment, but just adds to that countries worthless lot of people who do not work.

Illegal immigration needs to be stopped. Legal immigration needs to be moderated as well. Moderated enough that people who move here feel compelled to become Americans and not just appending their national status with a hyphenated American.

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:03 am 5. Bullfrog:

Not sure what the author means by “Immigration Restrictionist”, but if that means someone who supports using current legal immigration system as opposed to throwing the borders wide open to “whomever”, count me in.

As a sovereign nation, we need to protect our borders; I’m not sure why people have such a hard time with this, or characterize those like myself who want good border enforcement as racist or having a disregard for human rights. If you think paying an illegal immigrant under the table with no benefits and using them as expendable labor is humane, than YOU are more likely the one confused about what humane treatment is.

Empirical evidence shows that enforcement works and that many illegal immigrants have chosen of their own free will to return to their countries of origin because existing las are being enforced and jobs are drying up because of the economy. This is what law enforcement is meant to do, deter law breakers.

If a meat packing plant goes under because they have depended too long on illegal immigrant labor and now have to change to keep their business dealings above board, then they should be thankful to have enjoyed the ride while they could, but in the end actions have consequences. This is something I am teaching my 2 toddlers right now and they already have a pretty firm understanding of the concept.

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:13 am 6. wlpeak:

It is a false premise that Americans won’t do low wage or difficult or unsafe work. Some Americans won’t. I suspect the children from the snobbish coasts where the idea of sacrificing your future to the armed forces is often looked upon with disdain and horror certainly won’t. But how do you explain the willingness of so many to endure far worse in the military? Why isn’t our Army stocked up with illegals?

But even if we accept this premise, why not let the market handle it without breaking the law? Japan has no immigrant population legal or illegal to mention yet their trash goes out, their houses are built. Therefore this seems not a question of societal need so much as commercial greed. A lot of money is made in the unregulated black market of illegal workers so the failure of some companies to update equipment and automate process should not be subsidized by the general population. If a company cannot compete without breaking the law, tough. No one is above the Law. No exceptions.

Finally, if there are legal immigrants to take the jobs as stated in the final paragraph then not enforcing the laws is robbing them and their children of the opportunity to better themselves. Whether this is just another case of punishing the Law abiding to salve Liberal consciences or rent seeking slime, this is unjust, unfair, and unworthy of a Nation ruled by Law.

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:15 am 7. WJ:

1) Illegal immigrants are most likely taken advantage more by unscrupulous(sic) companies than any other working segment.
2) The owners of this particular facility should be prosecuted for these working conditions.
3) LEGAL, I repeat LEGAL, and repeating again for Mr. Navarette, LEGAL immigrants are now doing the jobs and at a higher pay.

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:21 am 8. Big E:

Illegal immigrants, doing the jobs Americans won’t do. I do not buy it. In fact I find it a notion that exists to provide some semblance of rhetorical cover so that folks can stay silent about the real reason’s they want immigration chaos. Certainly there are those in the Latino community who advocate illegal immigration for tribal reasons, liberals want the next generation of poorly educated voters they can demagogue and big business wants the cheap labor.

As for doing the jobs American’s wont do? Did you read your own article? You admit that the management took advantage of the workers and had deplorable working conditions. Do you think if there was a real labor shortage/absence of immigrant labor that the company might be forced to improve job conditions in order to attract native workers? Also, how do you know the meatpacker doesn’t just toss native worker apps in the trash so they can hire folks who can more easily be abused?

It seems to me that many industries like to subsidize their labor costs by importing cheap, illegal labor and allowing the American public to pay the considerable ancillary costs. Which is why I agree with you that they employers should be facing the harshest treatment.

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:48 am 9. Boca Condo King:

A more balanced article then the title seemed to imply,

1. American’s will do any job no matter how hard or dirty if the pay is right. See “most dangerous catch” where blue collar guys not only work hard and dirty jobs, but the most dangerous jobs for the right pay.

2. The wages for this plant went from $7.00 an hour or just under 15k per year to over 30k. Under 15k, no one can support a family, for 30k many legal immigrants can now support a family where one spouse stays home, the kids goto school, buy a house, buy a new car, and perhaps the wage earner can take everyone on a cheap vacation every few years.

3. The very same liberals who point at ‘mc jobs’ are the same ones that fight the solution.

The funniest thing about this, is that these meat packing jobs used to be located in BHO’s and Dennis Kucinich’s home districts where thirty years ago they paid 15$ an hour and up, with union benefits and retirement plans.

Dem or Repub, the system is broken….

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:49 am 10. Lisa:

I don’t believe there is a single job out there that Americans won’t do. There are just many nasty, dirty jobs that Americans won’t do for minimum wage with dangerous conditions.

Oh and shame on who ever granted the kosher certificate to that factory… worker safety should be a basic expectation of kosher foods.

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:53 am 11. Tolbert:

Ruben is being dishonest again.

If you have any doubt, then look at the results from the ICE enforcement action at the Crider processing plant in Stillmore Georgia.

The Crider plant is still in operation with no loss of jobs and those jobs now pay higher wages.

Maybe effete elitist urban liberals and their offspring don’t want these jobs, but in many areas of the U.S. these jobs represent decent wages or at least they did before unlimited immigration was allowed to depress the wage base.

Don’t buy the liberal and pro-unlimited immigration line that there are jobs that Americans won’t do.

Aug 11, 2008 - 10:09 am 12. Mabel:

This is not a liberal v. conservative argument. Many conservatives like me understand the job market where immigrants find jobs (i was an employment lawyer). And yes, many of these jobs go to immigrants because they are more dispose to do them. Why would employers risk sanctions if they can find legal employees for these jobs??? Because the free market is taking those legal employees to better paying jobs or welfare checks…ilegal immigrants don’t have the luxury of waiting for welfare or better paying prevailing wage government jobs. Yes, there are employers who abuse ilegal immigrants and pay them below minimal wages to cut their costs, but the vas majority of them have little choice with the available labor pool. The problem is the broken immigration system that puts family relations first ahead of labor needs in this country.
As for Japan, they do have a growing immigrant population. Years ago they began accepting immigrants but they had to demonstrate a minimal of Japanese ancestry and must learn the language.

Aug 11, 2008 - 11:45 am 13. Jvette:

I think most conservatives would agree that we have no problem with LEGAL immigrants doing the jobs Americans supposedly will not do. The problem is, as you are well aware, with the illegal population. I know for a fact that illegals have taken jobs that Americans want especially in construction.

As for the work ethic of the up and coming generation. I can’t speak for all, but my son has a remarkable work ethic. He carried 18 credits(24 hours with lab classes) and worked as a research assistant, intramural referee and private tutor. He did this because last summer he had a sweet job at a Vegas strip resort as a lifeguard making nearly $500 a week just in tips. With his savings he bought a 2005 Corolla and now has car payments and insurance.

This summer he had a hard time even finding a job and for reasons of change of management, the place from last year was not rehiring. Anyway, after looking for all of the “easy” jobs and not finding one, he took a job as a busboy. That kid busts his hump everyday and has worked 55-60 hours a week trying to make up for lost time.

Don’t be fooled by the lib media. The next generation will be fine and so will the country.

Aug 11, 2008 - 12:42 pm 14. Sandy Salt:

The auguement here should be all immigrants be legal and that companies only hire legals. If neither of these is the case then a law is being broken and justice should be served. Fine the companies into compliance because hurting their bottom line will forces changes. Enforce immigration laws and there will be less illegals to take advantage of by cheap labor wanting companies. This has worked in many areas because where you enforce the law the illegals will not stay. This points to why we needed immigration reform that we didn’t get because it wasn’t good enough. Instead, we got nothing, so if your were happy with the immigration reform’s defeat here we are.

Aug 11, 2008 - 1:05 pm 15. Night Owl:

This piece makes a good point that we need to continue the raids on employers exploiting their illegal workforce. But IMO gets off the rails trying to imply we NEED illegal immigrant labor to do the jobs “Amercians won’t”. Consider the following:

- A cheap, illegal work force masks the real cost of a job to our economy, which inhibits market efficiency. Those who argue that the low wages means cost savings are passed to consumers , overlook the cost savings that could be had through automation or improved efficiency, which is discouraged when there is a cheap exploitable work force available.

- As the article points out, the exploitation of illegal workers allows wages to be kept artificially low, and working conditions to remain deplorable. This hurts the “fire-in-the-belly” LEGAL immigrant and the equally hot-bellied poor Americans who may need the work, and are forced to settle for low wages and an unsafe environment.

- There are Americans who will do dirty jobs if the price is right. When wages are kept artificially low due to exploitable cheap labor, folks who have another option, like welfare or some other form of gov’t assistance program, will wisely take it. If the fire has gone out in American bellies, it was extinguished in some cases by liberal gov’t handouts, such as SSI for alcoholics and drug addicts (I speak from personally knowing such individuals. The handouts encourage their bad habits and ultimately prolongs their unhealthy lifestyle… but I digress).

- As an aside, I don’t see how one can logically be pro an illegal-immigrant work-force and pro-labor at the same time. You can’t be for increasing the minimum wage and improved work conditions for the low-end laborer, and also argue for the need of an illegal, and therefore exploitable labor force that will drive down wages and work conditions. There are those on the left who will argue for both. I see an inconsistency of thought here.

- Add to the mix the drain on society that the existence of an extremely low-wage, exploited ghetto of immigrants entails, and we get potentially volatile situations like in Europe and Russia. An ILLEGAL labor force is ultimately bad for societies in every way.

- Exploitation of the workers must stop. Che wouldn’t approve.

Aug 11, 2008 - 1:39 pm 16. DavidN:

This is another one of those sticky issues that usually, when reported, gets only half-told. People like Mr. Navarette want to leave the impression of hard-working, honest people doing work that Americans won’t, and there’s a nugget of truth in that. There is, however, something else to the story. If you manage a meat packing plant someplace, you want your workforce to be several things. You want them to be good at their jobs, but you also want them to be willing to work overtime without pay, you want to be able to yell at them when you feel the need to throw a tantrum, you don’t want them complaining about safety or cleanliness concerns to the authorities. You generally want them to do whatever you tell them to, without all of the messy complications that come from complying with the law. You can’t, if you’re going to fulfill all of your goals, hire *legal* immigrants for a job under such circumstances. Grab the posterior of a woman who’s in the country legally and she’ll sue you. Do it to someone who’s here illegally, and she’s likely to tolerate it, thinking that she’ll be deported if she reports you. Scream at a teenager who works for you at the local fast food chain, and he’ll go home and tell mom, and then quit. Do the same thing with an illegal immigrant, and he’ll stand and take it, because he’s an adult, knows you’re acting like a child, and needs the job to feed his family.

So yes, the jobs are ones that Americans won’t do. Some of them, in some ways, are jobs Americans *can’t* do, because it’s not legal to work for the wages illegals get paid. So they aren’t really taking jobs from Americans: they’re creating jobs that only they can fulfill. If we ever do succeed in reducing the situation with illegal immigration to a manageable level, I suspect the cost of everything will go up, and at the same time things like worker safety and E Coli infections will drop. I don’t know what the overall effect on our economy would be, as I’m not an economist. But I do know that we’d be a very different society.

Aug 11, 2008 - 2:22 pm 17. A Stoner:

I think I see the liberal position. They want Americans to think they are too good to do jobs that must be done. This makes Americans basically weak. I think I get it now. The whole idea is to cause Americans to think less of people who do these jobs so we are weakened.

Aug 11, 2008 - 4:00 pm 18. Teri Pittman:

My mother worked at Armour, back in the 50s. And I’ve applied for chicken processing jobs back in the 60s. If working conditions are decent and the pay is decent, then they will not have any problems getting workers. Look at Oklahoma. They tightened up on illegal immigration and their unemployment rate went down. This has more to do with employers that want employees who do not understand their legal rights.

Aug 11, 2008 - 4:40 pm 19. Bobnormal:

15 hour days? B**lS**t.The only way that would happen is if the employers and the employees were complicit.If that were the case the deport the lot of em’!
Bob

Aug 11, 2008 - 4:45 pm 20. TGinNM:

I consider myself a conservative but the immigration argument puts me somewhat in the liberal camp. What businesses need is access to a reliable, motivated workforce. I’m in agriculture, the horse business specifically, and finding reliable help is a constant battle. I used to use “illegal” workers almost exclusively for the simple reason that they show up, care about their job, are motivated to do a good job and have that old fashioned work ethic that has fallen out of favor with many in this country. Because of the immigration crackdowns, I now employ a legal workforce - I need to replace our farm gates with revolving doors - we go through so many people. These folks don’t want a job, they want a paycheck. And the sense of entitlement that many of them have is difficult to fathom. We pay a fair wage,offer health insurance, and a pleasant work environment - doesn’t matter. We aren’t exploiting anyone, rather we are offering year-round employment with benefits. The “mechanization” argument really galls me. Must be “city folks” that put that forth. Show me how to mechanize taking care of valuable racehorses, or picking strawberries! The H-2 visa program is a joke too, don’t get me started. My former “illegal” employees were law abiding (other than the obvious) good people who made a large contribution to our economy. Most would be happy to comply with a law that made sense, as would their employers.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:12 pm 21. John Lacroix:

As a constututionalist and traditionalist, I support Ruben’s right to post his opinions. I do question PajamasMedia’s decision not to link to a bio of the writer.
Here is what a simple search for “RUBEN NAVARRETTE, JR.” turned up:

“RUBEN NAVARRETTE, JR.
Biography
Ruben Navarrette, Jr. is a graduate of Harvard College. He has done doctoral work in education, has served
the College Board as a consultant for Latino student affairs, and has worked as an assistant to a federal
appellate judge. Mr. Navarrette has also taught in elementary and secondary schools and, at twenty-three,
as an instructor at California State University, Fresno.
Mr. Navarrette has published nearly one hundred editorials for newspapers and magazines. His work has
appeared most regularly in the Sunday “Opinion” section of the Los Angeles Times, though he has also
written for the Chicago Tribune , Albuquerque Journal , Kansas City Star , Arizona Republic and
dozens of other newspapers. He also recently had a weekly column at The Fresno Bee, where he was the
first Latino columnist in that newspaper’s history.
His work is featured in several literary anthologies including Writing About Diversity (HarperCollins),
Debating Affirmative Action (Dell), A Multicultural Reader (Kendall/Hunt) and The Resourceful Writer
(Harcourt Brace Jovanovich).
Mr. Navarrette is the author of a book detailing his experience as one of less than five hundred Mexican-
American students to graduate from Harvard College. A Darker Shade of Crimson: Odyssey of a Harvard
Chicano was published by Bantam Books in the Fall of 1993 and has been reviewed by numerous
periodicals including the New York Times Review of Books, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, and
Publisher’s Weekly.
Mr. Navarrette was also recently the co-host of a daily three-hour radio talk show targeting the members of
Generation X. Broadcasting from Los Angeles for the ABC radio network, “Twenty-Something Talk”
provided a provocative forum in which to engage the issues of the day from a younger perspective.
On television, Mr. Navarrette has also served as guest host of public television’s Emmy award-winning
“Life & Times” and has appeared to discuss various issues on CNN and CNBC. And, in print, Mr.
Navarrette was recently profiled by Hispanic magazine as one of thirty accomplished young people under
thirty.
Mr. Navarrette was recently selected as one of only twenty Americans to participate in the American Swiss
Foundation Young Leaders Conference in Zurich, Switzerland. During the week-long conference, Mr.
Navarrette refined his leadership skills, participated in a panel discussion on the American media, and
discussed issues of the 21st Century with high-ranking Swiss government officials as well as business,
media, military, and cultural leaders.
A twenty-eight year old writer, columnist, and lecturer, Mr. Navarrette lives in California’s San Joaquin
Valley where he is writing his next book, contributing regularly to the Los Angeles Times and other
newspapers, and preparing to launch the political newsletter, Reconciliation , which addresses issues of
concern to Latinos and the American community.”

It would appear that Rubin has a POV which animates him. Why hide this from readers of PajamasMedia?

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:16 pm 22. Javelin:

I hear a lot of reverse snobbery from the usual common as muck snobs who revel in their conformity and simplemindedness. If the horrible liberal and coastal elites won’t do those dirty jobs, it’s time all the upwardly mobile right wing patriotic types to take off their suits. shut off their laptops and grab a hammer and start knocking cows over the head to show us decadent types what men you are.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:23 pm 23. KansasGirl:

Make the welfare citizens work these jobs. They’ve had enough free lunches, section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, etc.

Aug 12, 2008 - 1:57 am 24. Tristan Phillips:

Another leftist that advocates exploiting poor immigrants and breaking the law, and refusing to fix the system he advocates people ignore.

Remind me again why leftists are “The Voice of the Poor”?

Aug 12, 2008 - 3:50 am 25. Pierre Legrand:

So now PJ Media is publishing the same bullshit we see in the LA Times?

Aug 12, 2008 - 3:57 am 26. RE:

It does not retire too many readings of Mr Navarette’s apologetics before his underlying theme emerges - there’s great deal of animosity and hostility to Western traditions and Anglo-Saxons behind his thin veneer of ‘multiculturalism’.

He’s just another dishonest lefty hiding behind a facade, another graduate of the ‘America Bad, Third World good’ indoctrination mill, employing a ‘dilute and erode’ strategy to undo what our forefathers have created.

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:08 am 27. RE:

I typed ‘retire’ but meant ‘require’. My apologies. I shouldn’t type with adrenaline still in my veins.

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:15 am 28. Chas:

So if we remade the movie “Norma Rae” today; instead of our heroine jumping up on a table and demanding dignity, respect, and higher wages through unionization, the factory would employ illeagals, and America’s trade unionists would demand that they be granted legal status because no American wanted to do that kind of work.

One question. If we make the illegals citizens will they refuse to do their jobs claiming “no American wants to do this work”?

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:47 am 29. Sully:

This argument about jobs Americans won’t do doesn’t go far enough because it doesn’t extend to jobs that the current legal workforce manifestly can’t do.

If we stopped enforcing child labor laws, for instance, we could help out the economy and the environment because little children can do many jobs better and more efficiently than much larger adults can.

To take but one example - all over the country mines are unnecessarily being dug with galleries six or more feet high at great monetary and environmental expense. If employers could use three foot tall children they could produce the same amount of coal, uranium, lead, etc. while using half as energy for excavation and while disturbing the earth only half as much.

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:56 am 30. Mommynator:

I REALLY resent the lumped characterization of all teens and 20-somethings as not wanting to work.

I have three children with driven work ethics, and their friends are just as bad. They have been taught that NO honest job is to be sniffed at if that’s what they have to do. My son has worked on yard crews populated with mexicans, my oldest daughter has done house cleaning and child care. My youngest has done the crappy clerical work that nobody else wants to do.

Our problem is that our family has been taught to THINK critically and to be creative in solutions to problems, so all the jobs they apply for that they take those stupid personality tests, somehow the results scare the employers. I can tell you for a fact that there is nothing scary about my kids other than that they will THINK about their jobs while killing themselves to perform them.

I don’t believe for one minute that the vast majority of teens and 20s are that lazy or worthless. The most conspicuous consumers are the ones getting all the attention and being held up as the model for a whole demographic.

Lies, damn lies, statistics.

Aug 12, 2008 - 6:59 am 31. Sandy Salt:

There are a lot of wonderful statements here about who will and who will not do certain jobs, but that really isn’t the issue now is it. It is about what is right and legal. America has every right to know who is in our country and to protect our boarders. We also have the right to say who can be here and by what means it takes to be legal. It is neither racists or hateful to want everyone to play be the same rules. Everyone should have the opportunity to work hard and make a better life for themselves, but not at the expense of the law. You can’t just wave a magic wand and say it is okay for people to be in this country illegally because they are willing to work hard. If you allow the law to be tossed aside then you reap what you sow with businesses taking advantage of these people. What we need is immigration reform and law enforcement to ensure that the people who are here are legally here and that they are allowed to work in conditions that are required by law. The whole premise that Americans won’t do the work is crap!

Aug 12, 2008 - 9:45 am 32. Rubicon:

The nonsense spewed once again that “illegal aliens are doing the jobs Americans won’t do,” continues. The comment that even at high wages Americans do not want those jobs, is now pro-offered as the new excuse. What Bunk!
Then why do Americans work at sewage plants, as pig inseminators, as sludge tank cleaners? The job descriptions go on & on, for jobs that Americans DO do!
Identity theft is a crime. It is one of the multiple crimes committed by illegal aliens once they have illegally sneaked into America or illegally overstayed a legal permit to be here. Identity theft is a dangerous crime that ruins lives & costs many millions to correct. The job of restoring one’s good name & credit rating is difficult & can take years! So if our legal authorities go after these criminals & prosecute them, so be it!
Excusing identity theft & making its prosecution out to be racist just because prosecution of that crime is employed to prosecute illegal aliens, is total bunk. How many different criminal activities are Americans to excuse or overlook that illegal aliens commit, just because we are portrayed as racists for wanting our laws enforced? What is the limit? Is there a limit? Why are we to excuse illegal aliens for all of their crimes, while prosecuting all others? Apologists for illegal aliens want us to excuse all crimes that illegals commit because they are desperate for work & want to better their families lives. Guess what folks, Americans want to better the lives of their families too! We cannot continue to excuse every crime, overlook all of the activity, just because illegal aliens have come here to better their lives. What started out as one minor crime escalates into multiple major crimes & many times involves the loss of life of innocents who would never have died had illegal aliens not been permitted to sneak in or stay here!
The only point the writer has made that makes any sense is, employers must be held accountable & face criminal prosecutions.
Not just because they employed illegal aliens, but for many other reasons that justify all of the efforts to curtail illegal alien entries into America.
Those greedy, profiteering employers, are the problem & Americans know that already.
They fail to pay overtime, they fail to pay for all hours worked, they fail to provide a safe working environment, they fail to provide benefits (especially since they can just advise the illegals to take their kids to the emergency rooms for treatment since taxpayers fund those operations, not the employers), and they fail to treat people like human beings.
So, curtailing illegal alien presence in America will also lend itself to stopping the abuses of the greedy who encouraged them to come here or stay here in the first place.
Worse is that with Comprehensive reform open borders advocates are pushing, we only make the problem worse. The current illegal aliens who are exploited, will be legal & then can demand to be treated fairly, without fear of deportation.
Yet once greedy employers must pay the newly legalized fair wages & benefits, those same greedy employers will encourage a new group of illegal aliens to come to America to replace the low wage slaves that are now legal. It becomes a vicious circle & especially since we have almost no true border security at our most porous point of entry, the southern border.
There are too many disgusting jobs Americans do for anyone to say Americans will not do work. The issue was, is now, and will always be, how the employee is treated. They want decent wages, decent benefits, & safe working conditions. Illegals will overlook all of those components & when they do, it empowers greedy employers to push the same conditions on desperate Americans who seek work & must now compete with third world workers who are here illegally!

Aug 12, 2008 - 10:20 am 33. Pierre Legrand:

So then is PJ Media going the way of the Drive By’s in the quest for more???? Trying to cater to the left as well as the sensible right?

Aug 12, 2008 - 10:44 am 34. CaptDMO:

Cut ALL enabling gum’mint subsidies by 90%.
Leave that cash in the hands of contributing taxpayers.
THEN tell me how many Americans WON’T
do the work.

Aug 12, 2008 - 2:19 pm 35. David:

Anybody who grew up in the Midwest and has a memory that extends to pre-1980 knows how patently false Ruben’s premise is.

Did we have meat on the table then? Yes. Where did it come from? Meatpackers. These meatpackers that employed Americans (many of them my neighbors), who were born in the USA, and lived here their whole lives. Was it a great job? No. Did they earn enough to have a wife, a couple kids, a car (or two) and a house? Yes.

Remember going to a hotel in the ’70’s? Was the room clean? Who cleaned it? US citizens, legally able to work here.

I don’t suppose you had strawberries or tomatoes back then? You did! How did that happen without the labor force being 99% illegal? Oh my gosh! Americans did the work? Are you sure??

Of course, if Ruben actually lived in the USA back then, he might know that.

Aug 12, 2008 - 4:34 pm 36. Me:

Navarette says:

At the Agriprocessors plant, former employees accuse supervisors of engaging in everything from sexual harassment to violations of child labor laws.

What they don’t say is the that supervisors being accused are Spanish speaking immigrants themselves and that nobody will tell Agriprocessors who the alleged underaged workers are. Additionally, nobody has accused the plant management of any specific legal violations. So what we have is a company that is being tried in the media for unspecified crimes.

What is particularly galling is that if 250 workers had illegal IDs as charged, then Agriprocessors hired them in good faith. They can’t be blamed. Of the other 150, we don’t know what the story is. They may have committed id theft but the government may not be able to prove it. Yet Navarette clearly wants to blame the employer.

Navarette quotes Obama as complaining that “…nursing mothers are torn from their babies, when children come home from school to find their parents missing,…”

What does he propose? That nursing mothers are to be immune from prosecution? That parents of school children all have a “get out of jail free” card?

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:59 pm 37. George:

I resent paying higher local taxes to pay for public hospitals and schools overrun by a flood of illegal immigrants. Employers get cheap labor, various interest groups get more “victims” to help, and taxpayers are expected to pick up the tab. I believe that strict enforcement of immigration law would save me more in taxes than it would cost me in higher costs of goods and services. I would be open to increases in legal immigration, but the current system hits me in the pocketbook.

Aug 13, 2008 - 8:45 am 38. urbanleftbehind:

David,

an American of Mexican Descent, was BORN and reared in the midwest well before 1980. Mr. Navarette was born Texan. As a matter of fact, rural midwesterners and southerners were job-takers in their own right, benefiting from employers fleeing the union-infested northern cities in the mid-20th century. Once they reached a position of power, it was time to have them put in their place e.g. the entry of illegals and legal foreign labor (e.g. Hmong, Somalis). I dont agree with it, and yes I’d rather have American’s cutting meat and such. However I resent your broad generalization about the ethnic makeup of the midwest and I owe it to my steelworker (US Steel, South Works, Chicago and Gary and other affiliated industries) forebears to set you straight.

If you could tell the difference between a legal and illegal hispanic, I’d have your back. Otherwise, I can’t choose the right side, because the wrong side is often chosen for me.

Aug 13, 2008 - 11:46 am 39. Jude:

Have you ever talked to an employer about firing lazy teenagers and young adults? Good luck! Next to impossible without the ACLU knocking on your door and dragging you into a court room. Much easier to hire illegals that do as they are told. Give the employer the right to get rid of the lazy workers without a court order. It’s all starting in our schools when kids raise absolute hell and the teachers hands are tied by the union and the kids thumb their noses at the staff. We have a lot of changes that need to be changed back to what it used to be.

Aug 13, 2008 - 5:32 pm 40. Richard:

I don’t see any news here. The employer sanctions laws have been on the books since 1986. The Council of La Raza knows it, the employers know it, the illegals know it. They were all breaking the law. It was part of the last amnesty deal WHICH DIDN’T WORK, because the employers and the representatives of the Latino groups did not honor their end of the bargain. They did not keep their word. Now, they want to strike a new deal and the employer elites, the liberal elites, the conservative elites, and the Latino elites all want a new bargain. But, the American people know that this is a deal offered up by people who didn’t keep their word last time. Lie to my once, your bad; lie to me twice, well….there won’t be any twice.

Aug 14, 2008 - 12:35 am 41. farrar:

Are you kidding me? Yes, there is a lack of work ethic in the US currently, but saying an American won’t work in a meatpacking plant is just absurd. Americans work as janitors cleaning toilets, serwer inspectors, hide tanners, grocery store stockers, plumbers, and any number of other “distasteful” jobs. Saying that we need illegals because Americans “won’t” do X or Y is a fallacy started by people who want to pay no taxes or benefits, or decent wages, to or on their workers. Americans would pick fruit and bus tables. Start shutting down employers who knowingly employ illegals, and start requiring real documentation through social security of all workers, and the illegal immigrant problem would disappear. No one would pour over the border if there were no jobs. Just like no one would pour over the border if there was no free medical care, schooling, and automatic citizenship for their anchor kids. Our medical system is being overwhelmed by illegals who do not pay. Guess who does? Your tax dollars. Walk into an ER on any weekend. Who is packing the waiting room? Lots on non-english speaking families who’s kids have colds. Drs are overworked and have less time to attend to those who truly need emergency care.

Aug 14, 2008 - 5:32 am 42. Michael S:

Me? I’d like to do their jobs. I’d like to do 20 or 30 of them. Or hundreds. See, I’m an engineer and my current job is to make my employer more productive. Over 20 years we’re now outputing 3 times as much with 1/6th the employees. The author would have you believe that we should have just hired illegals back 20 years ago. But if we had done that, we would not be in the commanding position we are today to compete against Japan, Europe and China.

The illegals here in the U.S. are holding back innovation. The French pick thier grapes with machines while we pick them with Mexicans. Who will be in a better position in the future?

Aug 14, 2008 - 6:18 am 43. urbanleftbehind:

Michael,

The French are gonna need our Mexican anchor babies to save their effete a$%es from the Muslim hordes that probably would be broken out of their religious fervor by backbreaking days in the field.

Blacks got freed to stop Confederate bullets. McCain is going start more trouble that needs more bullet stoppers. Now you know the real reason behind McAmnesty.

Aug 14, 2008 - 11:33 am 44. Stepan:

This piece is total BS.

There is a difference between legal and illegal immigration that, unlike the 22 cal round that is used in slaughterhouses, never seems to dent the foreheads of those who favor the latter.

Aug 14, 2008 - 10:10 pm 45. roybme:

I am soooo tired of the absolutely ridiculous argument that American’s will not take the less desirable jobs. It is all about the money stupid! I promise you that there is a number between $1.00 an hour and $10,000 an hour that will get you all the American workers you want for ANY job! Wages are as much a part of the free market system as any other resource, and the wage equation is being enormously distorted by cheap and abusive illegal labor. Wake up America!

Aug 14, 2008 - 10:43 pm 46. Jim:

“That’s one of the big lies that immigration restrictionists keep repeating in the hopes that the rest of us start believing it — that the problem is one of low wages and that Americans would rush out and do the crummiest of jobs if the salary were decent.
Baloney. Americans have moved beyond these types of jobs. Grandpa and Grandma may have done them, but their grandkids prefer to keep them at arm’s length. ”

Bullshit. Plenty of local people applied for Agriprocessor jobs. They left after a few months because of the pay scale. The pay scale amounted to slavery.

Specifically in the case of Agriprocessor there were horrible thngs going on at the facility. These raids are the only thing that comes close to stopping that kind of thing. maybe one day the unions will get to these workers, but unitl then this blunt instrument is all there is.

“Americans will put up with none of that, but we should also continue the raids. These people broke one law when they entered the country illegally and broke another when they used fake documents to secure employment. They have to be punished for their crimes, and the just punishment is not this “identity theft” nonsense but deportation to whatever country they came from.”

First thing: deportation is not a punishment. It is just a corection to a crime, like returning stolen property to the owner or finding a kidnapped child. Returning someone to their home is not a punishment.

Second: The only reason to prosecute these idnetity offenses is to build a case against whoever sold them the documents, and that will lead right back to the employers in 99% of the cases.

We need asset forfeiture in these cases much more than we need it in drug cases. Confiscate and auction off businesses, seize houses and cars purchased with the proceeds of these businesses.

Aug 15, 2008 - 12:48 pm 47. vashnugel:

Did you hear about the shortage of coal miners? Nope! Why? Because there is none. Coal miners make a decent buck. The work is miserable but decent pay gets people to do it.

How the shortage of sand hogs - the guys who build tunnels. That’s truly horrible work, hard, wet, loud, work. It pays quite well, so there’s no shortage.

In my neck of the woods, guys that needed work used to be able to pick up roofing jobs. That paid well because it’s hard and a bit dangerous. Today, you’re out of luck. Every single roofing contractor is 100% illegals. Not only do they get to pay them less but they also get to escape the very high workman’s compensation insurance rates (rates are high due to high injury rates) and the high unemployment insurance rates (due to the regular winter layoffs).

It’s total BS when the liberals yap about “jobs Americans won’t do”.

Aug 15, 2008 - 3:41 pm 48. Kalroy:

In ‘95, after I got out of the Air Force, I worked sixty hour weeks welding. Then 60-72 hour weeks welding, driving a forklift, painting and cutting grass. Then overseas where 60 and 72 hour work weeks were the norm. Then back to the states working rotating 12 hour shifts. Funny thing, with the exception of the first job (where the illegals made more than I) it was all Americans.

Perhaps in the author’s circle American construction workers, American maintenance workers, and American fabricators are unheard of. In the blue-collar world of America they are still plentiful. Employers aren’t complaining about a lack of skilled labor, or a lack of workers willing to work the hard and dirty job, they’re complaining about workers who want to be paid more than dirt.

I’m also going to back up what vashnugal says, from personal experience and observation.

Kalroy

Aug 15, 2008 - 5:13 pm 49. Chuck Lyons:

How dare you denigrate the millions of Americans that Do do the jobs that Americans can or won’t do! If I had known it was below me to have picked weeds at a nursery, flip burgers or shovel manure, I could have saved myself a lot of back breaking work. Or my sister who worked at a hotel cleaning rooms. Or the American men and women I encounter each week as I travel throughout the U.S. as I do my, now, white collar work.
I, the Republican, who worked my way up from doing the jobs American can’t or won’t do, started to get turned off when President Bush started spewing that line. I’m sure a lot of other Americans who still do ‘that’ work, were as well. I must have missed it where the Monopoly game of the American Dream now starts at New York Avenue instead of at Baltic.
You have a habit of generalizing the American people with the broad brush of anti-immigration smears, but this is a case where the facts dispute your rhetoric.

Sep 6, 2008 - 9:41 am 50. rjjrdq:

The writer is a Latino immigration advocate. Specifically Latino. He’s-a story himself.

Americans will do the jobs-if the wages are decent. It’s common for Americans to low-balled out of jobs by illegal aliens. Between outsourcing and in-sourcing, the American worker is being hit from all sides. Are they upset? I guess they could be.

Nov 23, 2008 - 12:52 am

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