Pajamas Media

41 Comments

1. CaptDMO:

Oh I don’t know.
The folks in the area have a FIRM grasp of the
tactic in sitting down to “talks”, until such time
as a superior military advantage can be utilized.

They have a word for it. It translates poorly to detente, or sheep’s clothing.

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:16 am 2. Diplomacy often seen as weakness in middle east « Jb’s Sanctuary:

[...] Diplomacy often seen as weakness in middle east What I want to say here is that the Middle East has a different understanding of diplomacy than the … [...]

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:33 am 3. kabud:

Very true.

So true that it is scary.

the current US policy towards the region if a failure and became so since the end of the 60s if not earlier

it is a miracle that Israel still survived

highly recommended speech by Natan Sharansky

http://wms3.streamhoster.com/seanruiz/WMC/08-0714_Sharansky.wmv

i never met him but i was involved in the same struggle he is describing

He said very insightful words on importance of IDENTITY for struggle for FREEDOM

speech made at Freedom Center http://frontpagemag.com/ 7/14/08

Jul 21, 2008 - 9:15 am 4. Concerned Citizen:

I’ve met Sharansky in 2000 and just returned from Syria and a number of other mid-East countries. BTW, universally, people we met thought there was no way Obama would get elected — he is perceived to be inexperienced, weak and he has ZERO credibility. In this part of the world, “unconditionally talking to anyone” is a formula for disaster. These people get eaten in the shark tank.

Peace is only possible when both sides realize it is the best deal they will ever get and and they don’t have a choice. All the Syrians I spoke with thought peace with Israel would be a good idea, if they got back the Golan. It’s a lot more complicated than that, but this is the time. No one is holding their breath, however, but the Syrians I spoke to were hopeful of success. They see the benefits of peace that Jordan and Egypt have received.

Jul 21, 2008 - 10:14 am 5. Wingwang:

The arabs have never been on the losing side….. think about it.

Jul 21, 2008 - 10:48 am 6. kabud:

Concerned Citizen:

Syrians are not even considered in this sgame more then pawns or furniture

man, there are forces at work
FORCES, not citizens, which is a shame

obama and mccain are actors in this game and i can easily prove it

i know what our elits think, don’t trust what they say in the idiot tv box: it is all a show

no one wins- we all lose

most likely there is a hidden agreement between elites here and in kremlin and it is geared towards collective joint management of the world

something to the effect of molotov-ribentrop pact
but much dirtier

and in the end us elits will get dumped and exterminated even though they are promised to be a part of the World government

it may sound to you fantastic or far fetched, but check and compare the figures of oil-gas reserved and ALL WORLD FINANCIAL SECURITIES
IT is coming

But common people will get screwed big time if not exterminated

Sharansky message is understood by a handful of us and we are not united and will succumb to the pressure of television consensus and trillions of$ in financial leverage at work

More i learn about it more i think that the only way not to lose your human decency is to think how you could die fighting IT alone

Jul 21, 2008 - 11:00 am 7. Morton Doodslag:

While this isn’t something which only foolish infidels do, I can’t help but notice the way Mr. Fadhil seems to blame Islamic aggression and bad acts on something WE have failed to do.

Look: The evil behavior of the religious clerics in Iran, (you know, those misunderstanders of Islam), or the evil behavior of the religious clerics in Saudi Arabia, (you know, those other misunderstanders of Islam), that evil behavior is completely the fault of Muslims. The mass murder conducted by Muslims, the over ten thousand terrorist attacks conducted by Muslims against so-called “infidels” (and sometimes other Muslims) are completely the fault of the malevolent Muslims themselves.

Stop making it sound like something we are doing, or something we are failing to do is the impetus for the behavior of Muslims and the Islamic world. Muslims, when they’re not lying to our faces, are quite frank about their motivations, and they always tie their actions back to their heinous religion of Islam.

It’s Islam which animates Muslims and encourages them to hate, terrorize, and murder.

We are innocent in the crimes of the Islamic world. Stop blaming us.

Jul 21, 2008 - 11:22 am 8. kabud:

Morton Doodslag:
muslim world is totally uneducated, there virtually no books published there

people in THAT state of mind are so easily manipulated

there is NO ISLAMIC THREAT

muslims are used as a martyr meat by those who make incredable money on oil trade

there is NO PUBLIC OPINION in that part of the world

it is just one plain concentration camp more or less

those who sell the idea of muslim threat here to stupid american tv watchers know exactly what they are doing and ARE part of the deal

Jul 21, 2008 - 11:43 am 9. Brian H:

kabud;
important point. You could carry all the new science and literature published in the ME each year in a medium suitcase. Much less than, say, Spain or Portugal, and INFINITELY less than Israel.

Jul 21, 2008 - 12:21 pm 10. Morton Doodslag:

“it [the Muslim world] is just one plain concentration camp more or less” — Kabud.

With this I agree. Muslims are hostages of Islam. But the hideous truth is that they are also the vectors which spread the disease of Islam, and therefore there most definitely IS and Islamic threat. I wish it weren’t so, but frankly, I’m not sure the Western world can spare much sympathy for the Muslim hostages of Islam when they are the main vehicle by which this terrible scourge is now being spread in our part of the world. If Muslims wish to come to the West and abandon most of the premises which makes Islam so dangerous, than they would be welcome — but they don’t. They escape the real shackles of their Islamic society of origin, but arrive here still enslaved to the mind-shackles of Islam itself. We witness virtually every Islamic community in the West (even here in America) adhering to their Islam, and often waving pointy fingers in our faces scolding us on how Islam is wonderful. How many apostates are there in the West, even here where they can largely jettison the filth of Islam without fear of death? Scant few.

So the enslavement of Islam appears to be nearly irresistible to Muslims. I don’t want to see that disease spread any further than it already has in the West. I want to see that particular Jihad stopped dead in its tracks.

We cannot and should not take responsibility for fixing the unfixable catastrophe of Islam. Its not our burden. And when Fadhil or others, as many on the Left do, blame us for doing too much to Muslims (colonialsim, oppression, Islamophobia, blah blah blah) or too little for them, it is all part of this dangerous grandiose disease. Muslims are to blame for the nightmare that is Islam. They believe in it. They raise their children in it. They perpetuate it, and now that we’ve admitted Muslims into the West, they have the arrogance to suggest that their broken hideous nightmare of Islam somehow should spread even further in the West. It must not. It must be stopped.

Since Muslims are to blame for Islam, they must be held accountable for the infinite uncountable atrocities it has wrought, even if they also are its slaves. I refuse to see my society destroyed too, and Muslims who insist on perpetuating this evil don’t belong in the West.

Jul 21, 2008 - 12:33 pm 11. Steynian 205 « Free Mark Steyn!:

[...] IN THE MIDDLE-EAST, Diplomacy = Weakness. by Omar Fadhil. Dialogue and concessions often frighten America’s allies [...]

Jul 21, 2008 - 1:25 pm 12. Brian H:

Morton;
fyi, the Fadhils are not Muslim. Nor are they recommending “doing more” for Muslims. They are working to get Iraq sane and stable, and recognize fully the cost of sectarian and religious conditioning.

Jul 21, 2008 - 1:52 pm 13. kabud:

Morton Doodslag:

i knew , personally met, even AM related to some of soviet architects of ISLAMIC and OTHER weapons against The West

islamists are INSTRUMENTAL

it took sovdep 50 years to create it on such a wide scale

BUT IT WILL NEVER GO AWAY unless kremlin is not put to justice and actors are HUNG on lampposts
i am not exaggerating : that is the only solution

no pity, no hesitation: we just have to DO IT
at any cost

anything else will lead to millions of deaths if not hundreds of mill on our homeland territory

if we cut the head of the dragon muslim extremism will disappear in months

Jul 21, 2008 - 1:54 pm 14. John Samford:

“Wingwang:

The arabs have never been on the losing side….. think about it.
Jul 21, 2008 - 10:48 am”

Evidence please! I can produce a few hundred case of the Arabs losing. Just to name one, ever hear of Spain? Those to lazy to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

“The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed.”
- Karl von Clausewitz

“You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
- General George S. Patton, Jr

Jul 21, 2008 - 2:37 pm 15. John Samford:

Kabud is right. The best way to deal with a snake is by cutting off it’s head.
Mort, you mis-read Omar. I have been reading ITM since the day they started and he has NEVER once tried to shift the blame for the actions of Islam to the West. NOT ONCE. Not even when his Bremmership was screwing pooches by the numbers in Baghdad.
About 2Km’s from where Omar was living at that time.
No, what Omar was saying is that negotiations with Islamic Theocrats and Arabic Despots is a waste of time. It does more harm then good.
Condi agrees with him. Or at least she just said so.
The English had a saying about Arabs. “They are either at your throat or at your feet”. Centuries of British involvement with Arabs was based on keeping them at their feet, which is a lot safer then their throat….

“It is only by doing things others have not that one can advance.”
- General George S. Patton, Jr

If State wants to negotiate with Iran, fine. They can do that on Mon. and Wed. We bomb on Tue. and Thur. A month of that and the negotiations will get somewhere.

“A smile and a .38 will get you farther then a smile alone.”
- Al Capone

Jul 21, 2008 - 2:54 pm 16. kabud:

John Samford:

military solution should have a second priority to
MORAL AND POLITICAL SUPPORT to iranian resistance

But there is a ‘Fourth Option’ forward. The Iranian people, so far pawns in this political morass, have always been there, patiently waiting for any sign of real support to mount a challenge. The political history of this people is rife with examples of a seemingly oppressed and passive people suddenly rising to challenge the powers that be, when the right leadership as well as the perception of support converged. The Iranian people are fast approaching that point today.

To help leadership emerge from among the Iranian people, Washington must take a very strong, clear-cut, unequivocal stand in support for the people. The Iranian people must be assured that the U.S. government and the American people stand with them in their quest for freedom.

As a prelude to this new approach, all saber rattling must cease so that the American people and the U.S. Government are once again accepted as friends and supporters and not as possible aggressors. Then the President of the United States — the leader of the Free World — must demand that they be treated with respect and dignity. If the Iranian people are convinced that when they stand up for their own freedom, there will not stand alone, there is little doubt that they will take decisive action. Again with history as our guide, stabilizing Iran would have a tremendously positive effect on stabilizing the region.

http://azadeganiran.com/forthoption.asp

Jul 21, 2008 - 4:20 pm 17. frieda:

I could not agree more.

I lived in Iran and Kuwait for combined 21 years and I know for fact that they way West means diplomacy is not the same what the Arabs or Iranians think.

That’s why, PRESIDENT OBAMA MEANS WEAKNESS TO IRANIANS AND ARABS. Not only he is too young but he does not have any any any foreign policy experience and his love affair with “soft power” means that has no back bone or guts, or at least that is the way he will come across to Middle Easterners.

McCain as an elder politicians and some one who has been a soldier will carry more weight and respect with that crowd.

Already in the Iranian press they are comparing Obama to Ahamdinejad. Ahmadinejad also came to power with his “socialist” message and someone with less experience and he has become a joke in the country. Obama is awaiting similar fate!

For more Obama gaffes,lies, exaggerations and stupid comments visit: http://www.obamasgaffes.blogspot.com

Jul 21, 2008 - 4:32 pm 18. Letalis Maximus, Esq.:

“A people are never truly conquered until they sell you their women.”

- Anonymous

Jul 21, 2008 - 4:36 pm 19. ZEITGEIST:

[...] OMAR FADHIL on Obama, diplomacy, and the Middle East. [...]

Jul 21, 2008 - 4:39 pm 20. diana:

the following comments published in the “Blacksmiths of Lebanon” blog: And there was a certain sleight of hand in all this. Mr Nasrallah had promised to retrieve the bodies of Palestinian “martyrs”, and they included the remains of 19-year-old Dalal Moghraby, which were supposedly stacked on the first lorry to cross the border yesterday. She was the girl who led 11 Palestinian and Lebanese gunmen in an attack on the Israeli coast road north of Tel Aviv. Cornered by the Israeli [sic] army, she decided to fight it out. Thirty-six people died and a surviving videotape shows an Israeli agent, a certain Ehud Barak – yes, the man who is now Israel’s Defence Minister – firing shots into her body and dragging her across a road. Mr Barak was one of the Israeli cabinet members who voted for the return of her corpse yesterday. But the Palestinians, it turned out, did not want their dead returned to Lebanon. Dalal Moghraby’s mother Amina Ismail, for example, wished her remains to lie where she was buried in Israel – the land which she and millions of other refugees still regard as part of Palestine. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command said it wanted its dead “martyrs” to remain on “Palestinian land” as they would have wished, and asked Hizbollah to exclude them from the returning corpses. No such luck. For Hizbollah had other ideas and – with the agreement of the Israelis, of course – brought them back to the land of their exile.

Also from the same blog:

Net gains:
Sami Kuntar
199 bodies of Lebanese and Arab fighters.
*Kohdor Zaidan
*Maher Kourani
*Mohammeda Srour
*Hussein Suleiman

*Technically not a net gain, as they were captured during the 2006 war.

Net Losses:
1200 civilians dead,400 of them under 13.
4400 civilians injured, 770 if them permannetly.
1 million people displaced from their homes.
125000housing units damaged or destroyed.
250 Hizbollah fighters killed.
80% southern villages destroyed.
5 billion economic damage.
15 billion long term economic looses.
91 bridges destroyed.
Northern Gaharreoccupied.
The continuing brain drain of Lebanon, etc.etc.

And they have S. Kuntar.

Jul 21, 2008 - 5:06 pm 21. dualdiagnosis:

Funny how the left always sings the virtues of sitting down with the enemy and talking it out.

Have they ever tried that tactic with the right? Pelosi, instead of bellicose rhetoric, could sit with Bush and understand where he is coming from and come to an understanding.

Why not?

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:03 pm 22. Porter:

dual-

Negotiating with the right would allow for the possibility they might be right. Wait a minute, that doesn’t sound right….

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:29 pm 23. John Samford:

Letalis Maximus Esq., Or should that be Most Deadly Lawyer, If you have to buy their women, they haven’t been conquered.

“Our Country won’t go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won’t be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!”
-Lt. Gen. Lewis B. “Chesty” Puller, USMC

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:44 pm 24. Daedalus:

Israel continues to make concessions……why? To quote Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with either. Is this the future of Israel?

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:57 pm 25. John Samford:

dualdiagnosis, here is an idea. The Left wants a date certain for withdrawal from Iraq. The right wants an end to the Diplos dog and pony show with the Mad Dog Mullahs.
Why not compromise and do both? If Congress passes a resolution with a date certain for withdrawal from Iraq AND an automatic declaration of war against Iran if they haven’t opened up for unfettered access by a certain date.
That way we can let Iraq stand on their own, Kick Iran’s arse, take care of whatever problems that arse kicking produces and go back to a normal life, ie; driving around in our SUV’s, dissin the Germans and fukkin over the Fwence.
Just like the good ol’ days.

Jul 21, 2008 - 7:58 pm 26. dan:

the main question is how to address the kremlin-beijing axis. the only question regarding the option of supporting iranian citizens is the question of time - although, they may be able to safely (strategically speaking) cannibalize their government even after they can produce their own nukes, I suppose. But other nations - Israel, the USA depending on who’s president - might determine that the balance of interests compels a strike. It’s true that the head of the snake is Moscow and Beijing, although I believe more in Moscow despite the relative strenth of China. But how to reach the Kremlin without tripping the nuclear trap - either by ICBM or KGB-jihadis? That is the riddle. It’s hard to put any trust in our intelligence services (but then again they did well in Operation Enduring Freedom, didn’t they…).

In any case, sitting down with the current Iranian government would clearly be counterproductive to the strategy of providing moral support to the Iranians. These moves toward rapprochement must be stopped immediately. The Europeans really ought to stop making asses of themselves as well: they’ve had their way and discussed things openly at every level with the Islamic Revolution for over 3 years now, and really are playing the role of catamites at this point. Diplomatically, it is time for blunt language. The weak point in this whole conflict has been the squeamish Europeans - it is long past time for them to stand up on the side of reason. It is sheer decadence to fail to acknowledge when you’re being insulted to your face.

Jul 21, 2008 - 8:20 pm 27. kabud:

dan:

as far as axes concerned :

the approach must be a combined one

but the most effective would be : no trade, no diplomatic recognition, moral and political support of PEOPLE in those countries

also the above MUST be reinforced by TOTAL TRUTHFULNESS of our leadership about all the past dirty deals and alike

Public support is the best weapon to use, both:
inside and in the foreign policy

Jul 21, 2008 - 9:21 pm 28. Grumpy:

TO: Concerned Citizen. This is my experience with many others from other countries as well. Especially the ones who were recently behind the iron curtain. They think we are joking when we consider Obama.

Jul 21, 2008 - 9:56 pm 29. Grumpy:

kabud, man, i think you should unplug your computer and go outside for a walk in the fresh air. The truth is, there is no one behind the wheel. Things happen that are unexplainable when you combine the decision making processes of billions of people. Don’t let it make you afraid. If you need to believe that there is a higher power at work who has a plan for us all, I would advise turning towards God or Allah or Jesus or what ever. Take care man. Don’t let the world get you down.

Jul 21, 2008 - 10:01 pm 30. kabud:

Grumpy:
world intuition so to speak has it:

the mere fact of BARAK HUSEIN OBAMA with all his `bagage` running
symbolizes coming end to american civilization

it may take time or may happen at once

there is this vision several very informed and insightful people had and verbalized to me:
this current President may be THE LAST ONE in history

i ma not sure how to interpret this

for all i care consider it a metaphor or in any way u can comprehend

but it is the same as:
>They think we are joking when we consider Obama.

Jul 21, 2008 - 11:37 pm 31. Kafir:

Morton Doodslag, Omar is definitely not in the blame-America-first crowd. I think he’s telling us not to walk up to the car salesman and say “I’ll give you $100 less than the sticker price.”

Jul 22, 2008 - 4:51 am 32. J.J. Sefton:

If BO is elected (still clinging to the notion of if and not when) and we survive his 4-5 years (8-10 will NOT happen), he may not be the last president, but he sure as hell will be the last DEMOCRAT president of the US.

Jul 22, 2008 - 5:18 am 33. Don:

Joe Valachi once said “Keep on patting your enemy on the back until a bullet hole appears between your fingers . . .” The principle is simple, talk until you have a tactical advantage, then kill. The best example of this was the Germans in the run up to WW2. Pointless talk to take away any edge the enemy might hav, to give him the idea that if he just duls his sword a little more then all will be well. Worked great for the Germans, nobody since has used it to quite the same level.

Perhaps in their twisted worldvision Hezbollah think they are doing the same thing, but since their (perceived) real audience is (generations of) inbred Jihadis the exercise works in just the opposite manner. Such displays (what took place in Lebanon) only anger any with reason (of which the Inbred Jihadis have none).

Jul 22, 2008 - 5:58 am 34. Links « I Think ^(Link) Therefore I Err:

[...] 22, 2008 · No Comments Iraq the Model notes that when negotiating it’s important to understand the mentality of the folks on the [...]

Jul 22, 2008 - 7:16 am 35. wingwang:

Sanford,

Gulf wars, both. the arabs are never on the losing side. They switch the moment it looks like they are going to lose. That was my point. I didn’t think I’d need to spell it out so plainly.

Jul 22, 2008 - 7:42 am 36. kabud:

the only way to win ME is:

1.destroying soviet(kremlin-beijing) influence in the world bu moral and political support of peole there tired of getting screwed by gangsters

2.doing same thing in ME : empowering people
——-

no talks to gangsters, no trade with communist, no oil exports

we got to switch to domestic methanol fuel model

we have to stop ANY trade with communist China NOW

Jul 22, 2008 - 9:20 am 37. dan:

Don - yep, all of a sudden Presto: you suddenly have the Skoda Works and the vaunted western Czech defenses are suddenly inside enemy territory. We know what comes next.

On this score, it amazes me how the press has completely ignored that HEZBOLLAH HAS TAKEN OVER LEBANON. Obvious Dem-bias, enemy-defending or -ignoring. These people really are traitors, Traitors, without whom the enemies of democratic evolution and a half-century of international peace would have absolutely no chance at success, or even survival. It makes me want to puke.

Jul 22, 2008 - 9:36 am 38. Philip Dhingra:

I don’t understand the basis of this essay. Where’s the proof? It sounds like, “well, the only thing my woman understands is my fist!”

Jul 22, 2008 - 10:06 am 39. kabud:

Philip Dhingra:

why woman?

think in terms of a gang of serial killers

and imagine applying the same attitude as you proposed in woman analogy)))))

i like your joke

Jul 22, 2008 - 4:03 pm 40. fred:

Do my fellow Westerners understand the Islamic concept of hudna?

Look it up. While you are at it, look up taqiyya and dhimmi.

Jul 24, 2008 - 8:06 am 41. kabud:

fred:

hudna-

it is a deceptive false commitment to peace under the cover of which enemy will come at night and cut the throats of your women and children. O, and you men as well, of course!

taqiyya-
refers to a dispensation allowing believers to conceal their faith when under threat, persecution or compulsion

dhimmi-
The term connotes an obligation of the state to protect the individual, including the individual’s life, property, and freedom of religion and worship, and required loyalty to the empire

——————————–

But it all is very insignificant compared to the fact that tiny ISRAEL with a territory in size of State of New Jersey and population of 3-6 million people won tree big wars lauched against it since the State of Israel creation and is still a fortress of Freedom ,

the only small island of prosperity and human dignity in the HUMANGOUS territory from South Africa to Morocco to Saudi Arabia to Turkmenistan, To Moscow, to Pakistan

I seemed to cover all so called Muslim world, a part of Earth where at almost half of world population resides and where there is almost NONE books published except KORAN and variation on KORAN.

This region with some exceptions is so backwardly undeveloped in terms of modernity that it is absolutely incapable of even understanding on the mass population scale that devious criminals armed with the theory of ABSOLUTE POWER MAXIMIZATION usually known as marxism-leninism are charging the uneducated Muslim people with hatred toward westerners

Well, to be fair i have top say that western idiotic shopping mall regime turned fat consumers and TV addicts into bags of fat that were so easily manipulated into believing that Islam World is targeting us in the West

Modern times are remarkably painted in the brown color of de-rationalization reminding only one substance : the toilet waste

If we continue to watch idiotic box and grow fat it is guaranteed that that we all will join that brown substance in the john together with our Muslim counterparts

may be chinese will have a better chance to colonies our lands?

who knows?

Jul 24, 2008 - 7:44 pm

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