Pajamas Media

115 Comments

1. vivo:

John Henke:

“Each of the items is a necessary precursor to the next. Without more effective information organization, we will not fix on a coherent agenda. Without a coherent agenda, we will not have a good story to tell. Without a good story to tell, we will not energize the grassroots and netroots. Without an energized grassroots/netroots, all the movement infrastructure in the world will be for naught.”

You are correct. Unfortunaly, many of the GOP principles and policies are irrational and don’t benefit the needs and beliefs of the non-Republicans. For example, peace vs. war, universal healthcare, abortion, separation of church & State, isolationism, diplomacy vs. aggression, etc.

Nov 17, 2008 - 12:57 am 2. daddy dave:

It’s not clear that turning the right wing blogosphere into a mirror image of huffington-kos is a good idea. Yes, their better coordination and single-minded devotion to their candidate helped with this election, but they have sold their soul to do it… it may cost them dearly down the road.
There is a credibility price to pay.
If the rightosphere really believes (as many do) that the MSM is a dinosaur that played its last card with Obama, then it must also be true that the left-wing blogs have committed the same strategic error.

Maybe, in the long term, the Rightosphere will be stronger because of diversity, impartiality, and not giving blind party allegience.

Nov 17, 2008 - 2:53 am 3. Rachel Peepers:

The key to GOP revival is not by creating a compelling story.

First off, assuming we’ve picked a great candidate, what’s needed is expert marketing people. Not just people who know politics backwards and forwards.

The next key is a marketing strategy, which is created from varous points of information, such as who you’re running against, what their strengths and weakness are, how your opponent is planning to use the media, the internet and such things as guerilla marketing. This requires someone who knows how to compile the right information; a research expert.

Think of it like you’re fighting a war. You want to be attacking, not defending.

At the same time, you need the best creatives available to execute your strategies for each media.

What you don’t want is lobbyists, researchers, strategists, etc. executing the strategies (creating the broadcast and print, the signs, handouts, mailings, etc. You need the best and brightest available creatives to write, art direct and produce the spots. The best and brightest are found in the Communication Arts Awards Annual. If you’ve never heard to it, that’s one of the problems I’m talking about.

And you need to come up with a way to make the playing field level. The Democrats can’t have a huge edge in fund raising or ground campaigns.

What’s more, the elite press must be controlled so that they’re compelled to present much more objective reporting than was the case this time. If a station like MSNBC, with Matthews and Olbermann, insisted on being in the bag for the Democrats, I’d assign people to cut them to pieces, maybe using types of media these creatures have never even heard of. In ‘08, they got away scot-free. I’d see to it that they were humiliated in every way possible.

As to bloggers, you have to be quicker and smarter. They can’t get mired in defending smears. They have to spend 80% of their time on the attack. I love Hugh Hewitt, but on his blog, it’s like he’s in his own little world. I wonder about some of the fights he picks. Michelle has got to be more persuasive for the undecided. Hannity does a good job. Rush does a good job.

Debate question asking can no longer be done by mostly Democrats. See what goog things happened at Saddleback?

And before shows like SNL and the View cheerlead for the Democrats again, I’d let them know they will be paying a huge price with ridicule and unflattery commentary until they cried Uncle. I’d let their advertisers know in detail the kind of hell I’d put them through, too.

Does all this sound like how McCain’s campaign was run? I don’t think so.

It became apparent to me after reading about 60 words from John Henke that he’s some kind of political writer, an expert in his field, but not a marketing expert.

McCain’s team didn’t have marketing expertise outside of the political arena. They had Zero. Obama did, and it showed.

Without a creative strategy, John McCain in effect had a nice looking car with square wheels. He wasn’t saying the right thing, the right ways at the right time. That’s why he never seemed to get any real traction.

No offense to Mr.Henke, but winning has nothing to do with developing a story. Winning is about developing an overall strategy and executing it to perfection. Tackling this topic, Mr. Henke is in way over his head.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:10 am 4. Ladida:

‘Democrats became the majority because they changed the story’

The Democrats are in power because the Republican story had a lousy ending.Plain and simple.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:41 am 5. Spinoneone:

It should seem pretty clear to one and all the John McCain was an inadequate messenger with an inadequate message to the American people. As “vivo” puts it so well, the GOP was unable to present the people with a coherent agenda which they could buy.

Americans haven’t “lurched left” so much as they have moved away from bumbling GOP policies on: abortion [most want to keep it but don't want it abused - think late term crushing of the head of an otherwise viable baby]; do not want the Government to pay for nativity scenes in the public square but don’t want them banned, either; support diplomacy but want a very strong national defense system; and so on and so forth. In other words, we need to regroup and rethink. Then, we must present a better message with younger messengers – maybe Jindal and Palin, or someone else who can deliver to an interconnected electorate.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:41 am 6. David Thomson:

“(and Reagan himself)”

Ronald Reagan may have been the best prepared president to have entered the White House in the last one hundred years. He was incredibly knowledgeable about the threat of Communism and free market economics. Who will be our current Reagan? We can no longer afford the muddled headed thinking of a John McCain or the Bush family. Only a conservative possessing a first rate intellect and the ability to convert the middle of the road voters is of a any value. Needless to add, this individual must also not be even slightly politically correct.

“…and fundraising capacity.”

Conservatives have mostly been tightwads regarding the advocacy of their beliefs. They prefer to spend their money in all sorts of other ways. This foolishness must cease immediately. We are presently observing the not so subtle imposition of a politically correct dictatorship on the citizens of the United States. There is not much time left. We may be less than two years away before many of us will be sent to jail or a Soviet styled mental institution.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:08 am 7. Martge:

I have never ever read such stuff as posted on some of the democratic blogs. They talk about republicans being crass etc, if you ever go to the site DemocraticUnderground you will throw up and that’s for sure. They don’t post informative messages. They are hate hate hate.

I hope the Republicans show more class and are news worthy and not characterless crap like they have there.

HUFFPUFF is worst because of Adrinna. She was such a HIllary hater because of Bill you found out right off she must have been jealous he didn’t make a pass at her and took the spite out on Hillary. She was once married to a Republican billionaire, wasn’t she. After he ran for the presidential nod and lost she divorced him and took most of his money.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:43 am 8. Mike T:

What the right needs to do is stop betraying its principles. The next four years will be a direct result of the fact that the Republican Party found creative ways to betray its principles and base.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:13 am 9. R a Z o R:

Reagan said to never speak badly of another

conservative .

1.) Know that it is a liberal only saying they

are a conservative and do not get into a bashing

contest with them in any way .
________________________________________________

I wonder how many bloggers used their skills to

help divide the conservative base inorder to

get Obama elected ? On Politico I was wolfpacked

several times for supporting a conservative

idea .

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:13 am 10. Webutante:

Part of our compelling story needs to be that once conservatives were in power with both Houses of Congress and the Presidency, we blew it, and forgot to live who and what we said we are. We need to declare that’s not going to happen again. And make our story, principles and policies line up. It’s called integrity.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:41 am 11. G-Ma:

Rachael Peepers #3 Marketing-we need to start now, with a campaigne that
Democrats are the party of the rich, not the Republicans. Point out California and New York, and the wealthy liberals that supported Obama.

Republicans have a reputation of wearing silk stockings, actually it’s
the Dems. Soros.Buffet.Gates.

The 95% waiting on the promised tax decrease wear cotton socks.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:50 am 12. Keith_Indy:

People need to stop conflating Conservative w/ Republican. Conservatives are Republican, but not all Republicans are Conservative.

The problem with the past 8 years was Republican politicians not being Republican enough. Failure to live up to the principles of the party.

That’s what the Republican Party has to overcome. That is the insurgent message.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:35 am 13. adam d.:

echo daddy dave, Dave Thompson and Mike T.

The soul of a society is often a reflection of the means by which power is attained in that society. Not only do the ends not justify the means, they are frequently nothing more than an elaboration of the means.

The left is stuck now with a superficial leader who will be the plaything of populist and hysterical forces. Even if Obama wants sincerely to govern from the center, even if deep inside he wishes to be the Henry V to their Falstaff, he will have to either accommodate them or be at war with them as long as he is president. Either way it’ll be hard to govern and harder to govern well.

I really don’t think we want to build that kind of party. On the contrary, I’d like to see the right turn away from any form of populism, avoid all attempts to control and manipulate the internal conversation and resist the very paranoia you think we need to embrace.

If blogs have shown anything, it’s that self important bs doesn’t pass for news any more. Self important BS shouldn’t pass for politics either, and there’s nothing we have to do to bring that about. It’ll happen all by itself. All we have to do is not do anything to muck it up; specifically not attempt to organize a new Big Narrative or anything like that.

I think we have a chance to become the party that stands for intellectual courage. They’ve left that field open to us, and our instincts bend that way.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:50 am 14. Eric Dondero:

We have an advantage over the Left. The Rightwing consists of two strong and longstanding philosophical movements: conservatives and libertarians.

The Left is monolithic. Socialists, Communists, Liberals, Progressives, are just different flavors or names for essentially the same thing.

We need to move forward by highlighting our two wings. We need to emphasize, that libertarians and conservatives are a united front against the Left.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:54 am 15. view from afar:

I just read this article(see link) in an email…although I believe some of the things mentioned aren’t current, I think sending this article and tea bags to evey senator and representative and our new president would be a story to get started. Public service should be that SERVICE, not the stylized glory trip that it is now… and republicans should run on even a few of these cconcepts…the stories are out there, the Republicans need to find them, and capitalize on them. think Joe the Plumber, the black conservative christian on you tube, and open up to the majority of people, Spinoneone had a few ideas, I am achristian, but we have to remember that only one school of thought is why the christians left Europe. check out the article:
http://www.amarillo.com/stories/102108/opi_opin3.shtml
just a thought

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:02 am 16. Asher:

The real problem for the right regarding the internet is that the leftwing blogosphere over the last 8 years has been driven by a core of very, very high IQ people. The rightwing blogosphere has no such high IQ core, because high-IQ voters are leaving the GOP in droves*, and I say this as someone very much of the right, who looks at the future and sees one-party Democrat rule as a real possibility.

The GOP does not have a message problem. It does not have a messenger problem; do you really think that if the route to personal greatness was as simple as being “the next Ronald Reagan” that no ambitious politician would have figured that out by now? That’s not even plausible. No, the GOP’s probelm is their base, which is in decline.

Time to get a new base, and you’d better figure is out sooner, rather than later.

* WORDSUM,which is a decent proxy for IQ has shown a significant shift among the highest IQ quintile from the GOP to Dems.

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:34 am 17. Susan:

The Republicans can win the next election if they simply don’t abide by the McCain-Feingold Act as our Dear Leader Obama did this election. Aren’t we led to believe that the Republican party is made up of rich, white men? If so we have nothing to fear in 2012. Obama will have shown he is an empty suit being led around by Pelosi and the rest and we can swoop in and save whatever is left of the American dream. I say save your pennies for the next 4 if you can and hope the GOP takes a page out of Obama’s playbook this year…..Take all of the reins off of the credit-card online system and let ‘er rip!

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:37 am 18. Войска ПВО:

..maybe this is just my little corner of this fight, but in 2004 it was positively scintillating to frolic around in the various conservative/republican-leaning websites and watch the ineffectual and tone-deaf John Kerry get ripped from pillar to post by the submissions and responses of the participants.

Each pro-Bush story was either constructed and issued to the public by these sources or the attempts to slander Bush (National Guard service, his former commander’s New Times Roman-fonted letter decrying President Bush’s service (a.k.a., Rathergate), etc. were deconstructed.

The New York convention — with it’s banks of bloggers — was stark contrast to the bumbling, stumbling “I’m reporting for duty”, Moore-sitting-with-Jimmah fiasco in Boston. All of this spread by bloggers and related sites.

We owned their campaign and they could never get any traction.

Well, now the tables have turned as Obama’s campaign and related support efforts have neutralized the messages coming out of these sites with their stooge, dimwitted program-posters, spewing the drivel and nonsense. At the same time, their hate-sites overwhelm dissenting Democrat efforts (Hillary, et al) and savage Republicans (Palin, McCain). Their intrusion was like an infestation of locusts, creating a dissonance that negated our theme.

They teamed up with a sympathetic media and Hollywood and comedic SNL to form — in my eyes — an axis of evil.

So, was it just Soros and the millions that Obama was able to scrape together or was it the perfect storm? More importantly, is their feat repeatable in 2010 or 2012?

Or will be public see through this Bravo Sierra because we organize and get a coherent message out?

..I am genuinely curious.

Nov 17, 2008 - 8:55 am 19. james wilson:

Paul Johnson describes this exact problem in his ‘A History of the Jews”. The Jews came to prefer being ruled, whether by Babylonians or Greeks, to ruling themselves because each time they ruled themselves, both government and religion became corrupted through the mix.
If the Republican Party is to rule without ttransforming itself into Democrats, they shall need to be serious about demanding principle before personality, and knowing what that is.
Jacob Burckhardt–People who no longer believe in principles will periodically believe in saviors.

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:12 am 20. Mickey:

I’m afraid vivo, et al, are missing the point…it isn’t conservative values that are unpopular, it is the GOP’s inability to communicate what their values are.

1. Abortion is the civil rights issue of our day…it is an inherently anti-woman (60% of abotions are coerced, 80% unwanted), anti-family (1 in 4 children killed in their mother’s wombs annually), and anti-prosperity (what is the earning power of the 4,000/day babied killed?). It’s a compelling story if it’s actually told…most Americans don’t want abortion except to save the life of the mother.

2. Embryonic stem cells…there are 73 known therapies for “adult” stem cells…and ZERO for embryonic stem cells. Besides the practical matters of what works (Bish committed $3B to stem cells), it is bankrupt to create a human being just to dissect them for parts. Again…where’s the leadership?

3. Torture…the Party of Lincoln should reject this stain on American honor outright.

4. Taxes…it is unjust confiscation of property to take a 40% of someone’s income, just because they “can afford it.” Progressive taxes work, but 60% of all personal income taxes are paid by people who make $150K or more…how ’bout “spreading the burden” rather than “spreading the wealth”?

5. Immigration…the current system is broken…and 14 million people are here illegally. Enforce the laws, secure the border, path to citizenship for anyone already here…if no one has enforced the “speed limit” for years, you can’t suddenly set a speed trap and expect compliance. Let’s have a just policy that attracts immigrants and makes them into responsible citizens.

6. The War…we’ve entered into a new phase…let’s “declare victory” in Iraq and trumpet our success, withdraw our combat troops and reset for the next campaign. The GOP must have something else to offer besides “perpetual war”, like a strategy for victory…first we have to define victory in a way we can acheive, then acheive it.

7. Economic policy…appropriate regulation of a free marketplace, coupled with credible oversight. No company is “too big to fail.” Government intervention in the market is sometimes required…but doggone it, make it count and know what the heck you’re doing. The economy is no longer “American” any more than it’s Texan…it’s global. Own it and make it work for us.

8. Health care…look, health care for those who want it, affordable and available. It will happen, the question is “who pays?” Surely there is a solution that preserves the market AND gives opportunity to the poor so we don’t clog up the emergecy rooms at great cost. Government has a role, private sector has a role, the individual has a role…tort reform should be Job 1. Until that happens, costs will continue to spiral UP.

9. Transform the economy to a hydrogen economy by 2050…it’s do-able and industry can/should do it. Lots of good reasons: lower cost, environmental, renewble, inexhaustable. Some country is gonna do it eventually, shouldn’t it be us?

Need some leadership here, GOP…people will follow if they have something to follow.

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:14 am 21. VoBan:

It would also help to “Know the Enemy,” and their tactics, to use them against themselves. It goes against my principles, and it’s mentally sickening to do it, but it might help to know where Obama came from and where he go next. Maybe I’m just being paranoid.

Activists Handbook

Rules For Power

Prairie Fire

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:39 am 22. Sandy Salt:

This is the saddest thing I have seen in a long time. The “Republicans” have allowed extremism to push away a lot of good people and then the icing on the cake is to put up a “maverick” that alienated what was left. That was no plan for success and as long as the Republicans keep bouncing around from super moral social conservatives and spend thrift moderates, they will stay out of power. If they want to regain power then they need to tap into the American public dislike of huge government waste and corruption (they have to clean their own house first) and put forth candidates from the current age demographic that are photogenic and speak well. Elections are not won on issues anymore, but on looks and delivery. If you have a platform that is remotely appealing and someone who looks great and can really deliver a speach you win. So quit worrying about platforms and messages and start looking for people that look good and can win over the television audience. Obama did this and won, without a plan or experience. If the Republicans want to regain some seats in the House and the Senate in 2010 then they need to solidify the message of removing government waste and cleaning up Washington (it will be a complete mess and spending will be through the roof) and find some pretty people to deliver the message. Palin needs to stay as Gov. and bone up on the issues before returning to the big stage. You need lots of other “young” and “goodlooking” candidates to saturate the television. This won’t be easy since hot looking actors are mostly Democrats, but you might find a few opportunistic ones to run on the Republican ticket. Let’s be truly honest, this country doesn’t not vote with its mind it votes with its crotch.

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:41 am 23. radical_moderate:

You just don’t get it people; Obama didn’t win merely on process, he won on MESSAGE. Us regular folk want a little attention paid to us you know? I speak of folk who work for others, the sort of people that pay taxes and keep our noses clean, but just don’t seem to be getting ahead anyway. Encouraging small business is great, overtaxing business can be bad public policy, but if there is no lendable start-up and expansion money, or consumers spending money, I don’t think that the tax issue (a Conservative Obession that went nowhere in this election) is going to resound strongly with an electorate worried about making their mortgage payment…do you?

Now the affluent, until very recently, saw their wealth levels going up while us piss ants saw our incomes flatlinning…we also care about leaving a clean environment for our kids and grandkids, and increasingly we have come to see, thanks to Bush and Co., that we need some sort of Government intervention to regulate businesses that will foul our environment cutting corners chasing after enough dollars to pay their Exec’s King Midas style bonuses and such.

Health Insurance, both the lack of it, and not enough coverage is crushing us…unpaid medical bills ranks up there in the top causes of bankruptcy.

You say let the Big 3 collapse, but then what to do with the more than 3 million people sure to be thrown on the dole in the aftermath? I haven’t heard any new suggestions from the Conservative side of the aisle on how to solve these acute problems, and preaching that the Free Market unfettered by Government intervention will fix itself just ain’t going to cut it my friends when the evidence of the last 8 years points to the contrary.

Telling people to “pull themselves up by the bootstraps” is one thing, creating a level playing field in which they are able to do so is another. Tell me how you will level that playing field for working people and I might bite.

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:42 am 24. BMoon:

I was a libetarian conservative in the early-mid 70’s, becoming a religious conservative in the late 70’s. Reagan was my first vote for President. Contrary to the supposed rift between the two, there are areas of mutual concern and benefit:

1. Abortion. It is both a deeply religious as well as a human rights issue. Conservatives can also harness the black, as well as Latino vote here, both with the appeal (as seen so clear with Prop. to their natural religious conservatism, as well as appealling to their sense of racial discrimination and oppresion. A huge percentage of abortions are minorities.

2. Economics. Not only is this a natural union that flows from not just understanding the fundamentals of economics, but the classic Protestant work ethic of productivity and individual responsability.

3. Education. Although the supposedly “educated” drank deeply from the Obama koolaid vat, studies show that even Harvard graduates can barely pass a basic history-economics-civics test (they scored 69%, or D-.) Conservatives need to retake academia with emphasizing real education. renewing the teaching logic, analysis, debate is a start. In some areas, due to the devastation to thought in areas such as philosophy, this has already happened. as a libertarian high schooler and university student i was involved with forensic leagues. Liberty University has established one of the best debate teams in th nation, defeating the vapid Harvard team repeatedly.

I am sure there are more ideas and areas of overlapping interest and unity.

Nov 17, 2008 - 10:06 am 25. JP:

This article is advocating the rearrangement of the deck-chairs on the Titannic. The problem of the Republican Party is not the way the message is delivered or underpinned by the internet or the press. The problem is the message itself.

This article, and many of the comments here, seem to rely on the notion that Obama is going to blow it completely. That’s sort of like preparing for your next soccer match by assuming that your opponent is going to kick the ball into their own goal. Maybe, but counting on it is not terribly smart.

Yes, there was an ineffective campaign for President in 2008. Perhaps the next candidate will do a better job. But that won’t change the fact that the Republican Party’s message appeals to an ever shrinking number of Americans. This is a fact that Republicans will ignore at their peril; the peril of moving into even deeper irrelevance. And eventually finding itself replaced by a more vigorous, forward-looking political force.

I believe that the heart-felt, even desperate support for Sarah Palin as the next spokesperson of Republicanism and Conservatism is a paradigm for what is wrong. She may be a smart, dedicated, attractive politician with “star power”. But she is unable to put a simple sentence together unless she is reading it from a 3 X 5 card. Is such a person ready for national office? I agree with Asher. This whole “Joe Sixpack”, “Joe the Plumber”, “Real America guys ‘n gals” sort of anti-intellectualism is driving people out of the Republican Party. Including people of the quaility of David Brooks, Peggy Noonan, and Christopher Buckley.

Further, Governor Palin’s intellectual notions seem to come from the turn of the century; I mean the turn of the 19th to the 20th century. Pretty soon, the only place where the Republican Party can win an election will be in River City, Iowa — the tiny town where “The Music Man” takes place. Unfortunately, “The Music Man” also takes place in about 1910.

The religious right provides a great deal of energy and money to the Republican Party. It’s also destroying it. Do Republicans believe in limited government? Yes, except when it comes to a woman’s uterus — or prayer in public schools — forcing science teachers to teach creationism — or refusing permission for a person to marry another person he or she loves. Insisting so vehemently on religious precepts, and vetoing anyone who cannot pass a litmus test on these precepts, is shrinking the number of Americans who consider themselves Republicans.

What are the core values of the Republican Party? Individual freedom, personal responsibility, generosity, limited government — a belief that America does best when its people are allowed to innovate. There is nothing here about trying to make America into some form of limited theocracy.

Conservatives must think about offering a message that appeals to contemporary America; more diverse, more college educated, more informed, and yes, more tolerant. Intolerance and religious fundamentalism is not the future of America. As far as I am concerned, this is a good thing.

Nov 17, 2008 - 10:07 am 26. Ms. Attitude:

23. radical_moderate: It’s been a long time coming for our economy to fall apart. In the recent past all our government has done is stall the process. Government intervention since the industrial revolution has contributed. A free market with people “voting” with their money would have kept the economy in check. What do we do now? Slowly lessen the government hold on our economy, it will take a long time. We have allowed big industries by allowing them to be dependent on the government…they are wealthy welfare recipients. We need to cut them loose!

Nov 17, 2008 - 10:12 am 27. JK:

In the same vein as #’s 10, 12, 16. As well as the story which led us to this discussion. We all may not agree with everything, but somehow we must arrive at some sort of Conservative consensus.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/791jsebl.asp?pg=1

Nov 17, 2008 - 10:21 am 28. Sandy Salt:

Please see above post, radical_moderate. You voted for the warm fuzzy with zero clue to what the actual outcome of voting for a socialist would produce. Obama has done the job of fooling the American public into electing him, but now standby for the fallout.

Nov 17, 2008 - 10:29 am 29. njcommuter:

Principle
Policies
Message

which provide the substance for the organization and the coalition-building. And yes, conservatism and Republicanism must be about coalitions, but they must be built around principles. Before deciding what part of your ship to jettison, you need to know where the structural integrity and buoyancy lie. If we go cutting away everyone who does not agree exactly with us on every point, we’re going to be a very small faction, and we will serve no one and nothing, and least of all our principles.

The link between Principle and Message is very, very important. The Left, in its varying factions and shades, owns both the media and the schools, from Pre-K to Post-grad. Our message must be rooted in what people can see around them; it must be able to reawaken the common sense that decades of safety, prosperity, idyllicism and envy have drugged into atrophy.

Nov 17, 2008 - 11:09 am 30. radical_moderate:

Sandy: ” Obama has done the job of fooling the American public into electing him, but now standby for the fallout”
—————–
You can only hope, and if Obama is an effective President, then what?

Nov 17, 2008 - 12:15 pm 31. Craig:

“Conservatives must think about offering a message that appeals to contemporary America; more diverse, more college educated, more informed, and yes, more tolerant.”

‘More tolerant’? Bwhaahaahahaahahahaahahaahahaha!!!
More tolerant than liberals?

For tolerance from the left please refer to the billions of articles spewing hatred towards Bush, Cheney, and Palin. You’re right- I underestimated them- make that quadrillion.

Nov 17, 2008 - 12:41 pm 32. Sandy Salt:

If he is effective that would be a miracle and based on the direction that this country is headed that would be a double miracle. I have zero illusion of his capability to blame everything on Bush and for the vast majority of the public to believe that, but that won’t change the fact that the things he has taken a stand on our sickening and the things that he has failed to take any position on will define his Presidency and this country for many years to come. I will pray for many miracles in the next few years, but this country is going to reap what it has sown.

Nov 17, 2008 - 12:43 pm 33. Brooklyn Dave:

As a person only a few years older than Barack Obama– I depend on the internet as my main source of news. I look forward to the “right” getting it together politically, even though I see a tough road ahead. On the whole, I have found conservative blogs much more educational and less ranty than liberal ones. The Right tries to appeal to reason rather than emotion. Who on the right is trying to pass as a Messiah? The only thing I have to say–and many will be ticked at me–is, let’s move on from always staring back at reagan. Yes, Reagan was the only real conservative president we have had and put the “movement” front and center. But Mr. Reagan is dead and we have to concentrate on NOW. When conservative pundits say “What would Reagan do?” it is kind of a turn off because it seems as if we are too focused on and attached to the “glory days” of our past. Yes, President Reagan did provide a grand example in regard to his stance on many issues, but who are the people we have available to us NOW. We have to move the GOP back to where it was in the mid 80s (ideologically) and extricate it from its present Bushie worldview.

Nov 17, 2008 - 1:54 pm 34. Susan Says:

I’m still in disbelief that so many here thought McCain lost on his issues? Please! In some other parallel universe maybe so but this year the GOP message was not even in play. We were up against a demi-God. We were fighting a losing fight from the beginning. It was all a popularity contest which was tipped in Obama’s favor by young, uninformed, unquestioning new voters. They were sold hook, line and sinker by The One. He’s their generations Camelot. We must wait for Obama’s star to tarnish somehow and then the “issues” can be made (and heard).

Nov 17, 2008 - 2:33 pm 35. M. Simon:

Just say no to Economic Socialism.
Just say no to Cultural Socialism.
Just say no to Socialism.

Reagan was big on economic freedom and soft pedaled Cultural issues. That was his magic. I think with a little sprucing up on the economic side Palin could do it. In Alaska on cultural issues she was silent. She has an 80% approval rating. That means that in Alaska she found a formula that didn’t scare Democrats. If only the Republican Party in the lower 48 was as smart.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:51 pm 36. M. Simon:

Susan,

Actually the biggest demographic we lost was single women. Those who might consider the availability of abortion important. We can win them back by promising to lead by example – not force of law.

You will note that in governing Alaska Palin was completely silent on abortion despite her strong personal stance on the issue.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:54 pm 37. Dave:

McCain HATED talking about Joe the Plumber and keeping taxes low for the American working class.. he wanted to talk about global warming and other lefty stuff.. but he KNEW he could NEVER win by sounding like a nonconservative, like himself…

Palin sounded GREAT, and McCain sounded unconvinced, delivering conservative talk.

Every pundit in the west is trying to tell us we need to give up on serious conservatism, but I haven’t seen it in action since 1994, or with any real principled belief since 1980.

Serious conservatism wins EVERY TIME ITS TRIED. Social conservatism, fiscal conservatism, foreign policy conservatism… when we have conservative candidates or conservative positions in referendums, THEY WIN.

I wish I knew what the he11 is so repulsive about it amongs our political class… aside from the obvious, that real small-government conservatism kills THEIR influence… and its SO sad to think the men we choose to send there are so damm easily corrupted, but I suppose they are…

GIVE ME GOOD CANDIDATES and I will hit the streets MYSELF.

Haven’t seen one since the Great Reaganus.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:56 pm 38. DThompson:

Perhaps, just perhaps, the GOP would get more help from techies if they would tell the very loud voices coming from some of their supporters about how evil and wrong science is.

You can’t expect support from technical / scientific people if you have supporters who insist that they are evil, that they have no morals, that they are trying to destroy this country.

Nov 17, 2008 - 3:59 pm 39. M. Simon:

Paul Johnson describes this exact problem in his ‘A History of the Jews”. The Jews came to prefer being ruled, whether by Babylonians or Greeks, to ruling themselves because each time they ruled themselves, both government and religion became corrupted through the mix.

Uniting government and religion is inherently corrupting. Jefferson suggested a wall of separation. A lot of Republicans deride that. But you know, maybe that Jefferson guy was on to something.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:04 pm 40. M. Simon:

Small government conservatism and Cultural Socialism do not walk well together.

I think a Culture war is fine – it is not Government’s business.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:06 pm 41. M. Simon:

I believe that the heart-felt, even desperate support for Sarah Palin as the next spokesperson of Republicanism and Conservatism is a paradigm for what is wrong. She may be a smart, dedicated, attractive politician with “star power”. But she is unable to put a simple sentence together unless she is reading it from a 3 X 5 card. Is such a person ready for national office?

You should have been alive during Eisenhower’s term. Off the cuff he sounded a lot like Palin. But you know what? I Like Ike. He ran against the “brainiac” Stevenson who spoke in clear sentences and got 55% of the vote in 1952.

When That One runs out of image policies will be the deciding factor.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:15 pm 42. Herrina:

This year’s election defeat is the direct result of Republicans simply not communicating with the public during the eight years of the Bush Presidency. We sat back and allowed the news media and Democrats to repeat distortions and outright lies over and over again until they were accepted as fact by a public that is busy with the demands of every day life.

As a party, it seems we don’t have the spirit for political battle. We sit back and let our opponents control the game.

Take Iraq, for example…the war in Iraq is over…we are now engaged in peacekeeping for the democratic government that we helped form there…we’ve won, and yet do any Republicans even mention it?

What are we afraid of?

I’m sickened by the lack of leadership among the Washington Republicans. Where is our David Cameron?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdq29o0J8_0&feature=channel

Know anyone in our party who can deliver that presence in a public forum?

I, along with many others, would love to see someone emerge as a party leader who can stand in front of a camera and state our goals and ideas in a way that people understand and identify with. Until we have that leadership, we will continue to wander aimlessly in the wilderness.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:20 pm 43. BarryD:

Rachel’s right on.

I’d like to add something about the “attack, don’t defend” strategy, too.

Note that Obama just ignored a lot of attacks whenever possible. Then he just did what he had to do, to deflect them, if it finally became necessary. He really didn’t have too many answers; he just knew that he could just ignore a lot of attacks, so he did.

His speech on race was hardly a great speech; if anything, it was one of the best-spun balls of BS I’ve ever heard. Having a fawning media helped him, of course, but my point is that he still never answered any of the questions about, say, Jeremiah Wright and how Obama’s beliefs dovetailed with Wright’s.

OTOH Obama kept repeating “the failed policies of the last 8 years” like a robot. It sounded stupid to me, but not to a lot of voters, evidently. I mean, I asked, “What policies failed, and how? I’m better off now than I was 8 years ago, and so is everyone I know. And how do Obama’s proposed policies differ?”

What does this tell us?

You win by attacking. If the attack is relatively baseless, repeat it more often. If meaningless, repeat it hourly.

Never defend. If the other candidate says you’re Satan, and you ignore it, most people won’t pay attention even if you ARE Satan. Take advantage of the information overload, and the fact that non-political-junkie Americans hear so much trash talk ever day that they habitually tune it out.

This sounds vacuous. It is. And it worked. Obama was the first Democrat to get a majority of the popular vote in 3 decades.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:24 pm 44. Herrina:

“I believe that the heart-felt, even desperate support for Sarah Palin as the next spokesperson of Republicanism and Conservatism is a paradigm for what is wrong. She may be a smart, dedicated, attractive politician with “star power”. But she is unable to put a simple sentence together unless she is reading it from a 3 X 5 card. Is such a person ready for national office?”

Sarah Palin is the governor of a state who has received 80% approval ratings from her constituents. This means she has significantly transcended party lines. Either the people of Alaska are very stupid, or she is doing a lot of things right.

Governing isn’t sitting in front of a camera fielding “gotcha” questions posed by a news media that overwhelmingly favors the Democratic party. It is doing the hard work, day after day, that is needed to make decisions that benefit the people. Ms. Palin has shown she is quite willing to take on powerful members of her own party in order to do that job. That requires a level of courage that is sorely lacking from the vast majority of today’s American politicians.

I don’t know what the future holds for her, but I’m impressed with her accomplishments and I wish her the best.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:33 pm 45. G Alston:

Reagan was speaking of stuff that indicated he knew what century this was. Today’s republicans are still prattling about social conservative idiocy like gay marriage and abortion. If McCain had gone down THAT road, the loss would have been much worse, as in an Obama landslide that would have made the 1984 Reagan landslide puny by comparison.

Quickly, Jon Henke — what century is this?

Democrats OWNED the climate change issue, and all they had to do was invoke St. Gore. McCain could have trumped this by asking for a larger NASA budget, an initiative to get spaceborne power operational. Oh, snap. That doesn’t do the small government thing. I’s not “republican” enough. I’ve had that up to HERE.

The small government thing is DOA. And it’s DOA because that’s just the way it is in the early 21st century. McCain could have said that what we want to do is cut other programs and put that money in NASA. The idea here being that money is going to be spent, so INVEST it. Get a paypack.

People want an answer. So do I. I’d much rather see monies redirected to NASA for spaceborne solar power than watch Obama confiscate billions for cap and trade ponzi schemes. If they’re going to take money from me, I may as well get something from it. Marching in the street that government ought to be smaller is useless. Government is the only one who can do spaceborne power.

And that’s just the climate change issue!!!!!!

Now, why is spaceborne power a republican issue? Because republicans are the party that invests in America. Reagan ran up big deficits. No problem. He invested the money into SDI and updating military technology. The trickle down was jobs — tons and tons of jobs — and these were in the tech industry. By the Clinton era the government was seeing a surplus. That is what the appeal of Reagan was. That is what the republicans need to recapture. Reagan knew what century he lived in, and what needed to be done. And he did it.

The democrats take money but don’t invest it. The simply piddle it away, putting basketball courts in the inner cities and other puffery that accomplishes nothing. That is the big difference right there.

There are no republican representatives in the northeast. And there are very few on the west coast. So the answer from the social conservatives? Ummm… I know, let’s call them atheist heathens! It’s 1799, after all! Sorry, doesn’t work.

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:37 pm 46. Mickey:

Under every circumstance except danger to a woman’s physical health (e.g. ectopic pregnancy), abortion is the taking of a human being’s life without due process of law, and without that person being a threat to the life of another.

It is decidedly unAmerican and should be against the law.

It is worth noting, that it is a deeply misogynist and racist act…60% of abortions are coerced, and 50% of all black babies are aborted.

There is no middle ground here…

Nov 17, 2008 - 4:45 pm 47. Reno Sepulveda:

The Democrats didn’t win the last two elections. Republicans lost them. And they lost them years ago.

Trent Lott, Duke Cunningham, Mark Foley, Larry Craig, Ted Stevens and it pains me to say it but George W. Bush and Sarah Palin. The list goes on and on. I’ve had enough of defending these kind of conservatives and the ideas and agenda they supposedly stand for. I’m tired of being embarrassed.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:06 pm 48. rk:

Conservative tend to appeal to reactance emotions (that’s my money you are giving away, I’ll never give up my gun). Reactance then reinforces the Left’s/Elite’s narrative that the poor rubes in the country must be dragged along to the new society.

I think we need some smarter Republicans to go beyond cant and into reason and history.

What happens if this country goes to a French style government? Can Republicans answer that question in terms of the average person and not in terms of conservative cant?

Why are windmills+solar inadequate? Do we really need Coal? Why shouldn’t people be afraid of nuclear?

Is universal health care really better? Why is the WHO statistics wrong? Are there other statistics that show difference?

What happens if the US is no longer a global leader economically?

Left-wingism does not work. Many voters do not know that.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:16 pm 49. Letalis Maximus, Esq.:

Reno is dead right. In 1994, the American people (helped in an immense way by millions of pissed off gun owners) finally decided to give the GOP a chance to put its money where its mouth was, and give the GOP control of the House and Senate. Then, in 2000, the American voters doubled down and gave the Republicans control of the White House, too. And in response, we got all the partisan back-scratching that Reno mentions, plus Jack Abramoff, the K Street Project, J. Steven Griles, a badly managed invasion and reconstruction of Iraq, the incredibly poorly handled firing of the United States Attorneys, Harriet Myers, Attorney General Gonzo, that disaster with Schiavo, and on and on and on and on.

Republicans, you earned this trip to the woodshed and time in the wilderness. Use it to your advantage. Listen to guys like Tom Coburn. Otherwise, you will be in minority for the next several decades.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:24 pm 50. M. Simon:

Mickey says re abortion:

There is no middle ground here…

Then why didn’t Palin even mention it in Alaska until she got the VP nod? She is obviously totally against it.

You know maybe it was because she wanted to win elections instead of being a Cultural Socialist.

Down with Socialism. Economic and Cultural.

Besides if the Drug War is representative making abortion illegal will have minimal effect. Think RU-485. Using birth control pills as a morning after solution. Or what used to be popular before abortion was legal Menstrual Extraction Parties. etc.

Obviously Palin understands that the Culture War is political suicide. Too bad other Republicans don’t get it. But hey if socons want to commit political suicide I don’t have the power to stop them. In fact I would encourage it. I think a name change is in order though. Call it the Anti-Abortion Party. Or The Death Penalty For Abortion Party.

I think such a party has a bright future. If losing elections is the goal.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:33 pm 51. Richard Allen:

How about we call this the Freedomroots.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:34 pm 52. Neil G:

One thing that’s forgotten about Reagan is that he was immensely popular as Governor of CA and made his name by giving back money to taxpayers in that state after there was a surplus. The GOP can make its name by fighting back in blue states where the Democrats are running thing into the ground and the local GOP is either complacent or in cahoots. If the GOP turns around a few blue states they will then be able to win a few majorities again. If they simply divide up the country into spheres of influence like they have in the recent past they’ll keep losing. Obama realized what Kerry and Gore were too lazy, stupid or fearful to truly understand. That since most blue states were a lock he could campaign in the red states and turn things Democrat. He just needed a few states to go the other direction and he would be President. Either the Republicans start eating into the Democratic sure things (and do some actual good in the process) or they gradually live off an aging demographic. Some would argue that since certain states will go Democrat money and effort is wasted there but at some point you have to force the Dems to make sure their flanks are secure and at least tie them down.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:41 pm 53. Tennwriter:

The Principles lead to the Message which leads to the Marketting, not the other way around. Putting Marketting first is the way to have a hollow man. It won’t work, and if it does get lucky, then you still will be left with a hollow man.

McCain’s bad Marketting was a reflection of his being a RINO. The Country Clubbers naturally distrust the normal people, and so they have a bad ground game.

That said, Rachel’s comments about better Marketting are very useful once you get the message straight.

As to ‘gov’t must do space power’ um, no, and no. I am a Standard Conservative, good on values (like anti-gay marriage which is more popular than the Republicans), and national defense, and Fiscal Responsibility (take NASA’s budget, and use one-third to pay for pensions, one-third to pay down the debt, and one-third for X-prizes with matching funds from private donors.)

You are directly attacking two of the principles of the conservatism…small government and financial conservatism. Its true, as you say, that its certainly a better use than the cap and trade garbage, but its also true that NASA, like most government agencies, is a failure.

I know you mean well, but this is the time to be bold. We’re not going to win with Big Government Conservatism.

And yes, I’m a socon defending fiscal conservatism because socons are fiscal conservatives.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:45 pm 54. radical_moderate:

“It was all a popularity contest which was tipped in Obama’s favor by young, uninformed, unquestioning new voters. ”
——————–
You are wrong. And not only are you wrong, this sort of misinformed bugaboo will marginalize the Republicans in the next few elections until you get a clue. I am 52 years old, have 2 degrees, and am not an “unquestioning new voter” having voted in every election since 1976. I assure you that I looked at what each Candidate had to offer me (to paraphrase Tip O’Neill, remember All Politics is Individual, as in what can you do for me and my family?) and found McCain wanting, and his message fuzzy and unfocused, and that people is your dilemma; you can continue on a Rovian attack path, or you can offer substance. You also need to appeal to young people or you will quickly become the party of old, southern, rural, white Folk, I personally think that we need at least 2 strong opposing parties in this country to keep the Democracy Healthy, if you guys don’t want to come into the 21st Century, and adapt to modern attitudes and concerns, maybe the Ron Paul Libertarians will (I have nothing but respect Dr. Paul, it is shameful how the MSM marginalized him.)

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:49 pm 55. Rightroots « Buttle’s World:

[...] Filed under: Posts — buttle @ 17:54 Jon Henke makes the case for a compelling [...]

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:54 pm 56. M. Simon:

Further, Governor Palin’s intellectual notions seem to come from the turn of the century;

So true. Limited government. Honest government.

With such old fashioned ideas it is no wonder she only has an 80% approval rating in Alaska.

No way stuff like that would be popular in the lower 48.

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:55 pm 57. Developing/Eroding a Message : The New Nixon: News and Commentary about the President, his Times, and his Legacy:

[...] of the 1980’s, it didn’t erode with the nomination of Sen. John McCain. It was a gradual undoing: Unfortunately, after taking power, Republicans began walking away from their story. It is, after [...]

Nov 17, 2008 - 5:58 pm 58. Peter M.:

Here is the manifesto for a revolution to restore individual rights, limited government and laissez-faire capitalism:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-fall/decline-fall-american-conservatism.asp

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:01 pm 59. Concerned Citizen:

Repubs need to claim the large middle. People who work and pay taxes.

That leaves out the uber-upper income folks who sometimes pay taxes if their legal and accounting teams can’t find a way to avoid it, and the parasites who want to suck off the system and don’t pay taxes.

Sadly, it’s barely 50% in the pay taxes group anymore.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:10 pm 60. Davecatbone:

Just as the Left did not become Moderate to win the election, the Right does not need to become more Moderate. What they do need to do is just what the Left did. Appeal to the Center. Appeal to them by emphasizing the commonalities in our cultural and economic beliefs. The narrative of the Right needs to be marketed towards the Center, they won’t accept purist conservative ideology shoved down their throats. A little teaspoon of sugar makes the medicine go down….

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:27 pm 61. Sydney:

Nothing will change with any sort of permanence until we collectively stop playing the “us or them” game. It simply cannot remain Republicans versus Democrats – or whomever versus whomever – because all that does is continue to teach us how to marginalize each other. We must be Americans first and political party affiliations second because the goal – or at least it should be for any rational adult – is to try and do what’s best for the country as a whole.

We will continue to fail at that goal as long as we continue trying to find ways to beat “them”, where “them” is our fellow Americans. We will continue to fail at that goal as long as we continue to conduct politics like so many 5 year olds in a sandbox.

The United States in the oldest continuous democracy in history. It’s time we started acting like it.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:32 pm 62. cedarford:

Vivo – Unfortunately, many of the GOP principles and policies are irrational and don’t benefit the needs and beliefs of the non-Republicans.

A big kernel of truth in what Vivo said. All too much, Republican principles and policies are directed against “them”, the other 80% of Americans. Who are moderate on abortion, who now believe Reagan was great but that his voodoo economics were tested and failed. Who don’t see the point of endless war just to keep Israel’s WMD monopoly when the whole ME needs final Borders imposed and to be made nuke and other WMDs barred. Directed against lazy no-good workers who deserve to have low, stagnant wages and no health care in boom times. And conversely those “intellectual college-types”. People that believe war is the last resort, not an excellent Neocon adventure. Declaring how much you detest hose who are gays, occasional drug users, atheists, heretic Mormons, dirty Hispanic Catholics..Denouncing all government except “hero cops, hero soldiers” as bad, evil, and bound to fail in incompetency(especially when Republicans are in charge to prove it is incompetent and doesn’t work).
Republicans need to rein in the haters in The Southern Base, go after the votes of those 80% of other Americans, instead of denouncing them.

********************
Spinonone – As “vivo” puts it so well, the GOP was unable to present the people with a coherent agenda which they could buy.

Americans haven’t “lurched left” so much as they have moved away from bumbling GOP policies

Part of the problem is the “red meat” thrown at The Base is considered poisoned food by much of the rest of the public. From Palin to cheering union members losing factories to China to “More wars,,bomb Iran…NOw! Once thrown out, Republicans have to somehow spin and throw smoke to the Center to say they really were sort of joshing about imprisoning women who have abortions of use certain birth control.

McCain just added to that sort of incoherence by being who McCain naturally is – not too bright, not guided by long-standing principles, but by what he decides on the spur of the moment is right based on his “fighter jock gut instinct”. It was hard for McCain to be coherent when the poor old guy was just running on POW character and was sometimes just days or hours into a new stand on a new issue, not years of consistency or change only with deep thought.

Try articulating as McCain was forced to – why you want 300 billion to pay mortages for those who got “too much house” from taxes on those who can afford their own mortgages because the colonial on 3 acres from a subdiv 2 bath,2 bedroom just seemed financially reckless – when you just decided that details were not important, in your gut….it was the right call. Explain that to people. Mccain tried and of course looked like he was in the grip of senility.

Palin was at 1st thought to be more articulate, but it was soon obvious all she was was a telegenic former TV broadcaster artfully reading off scripted right wing attack talking points.
**************
Eric Dondero:
We have an advantage over the Left. The Rightwing consists of two strong and longstanding philosophical movements: conservatives and libertarians.

The Left is monolithic. Socialists, Communists, Liberals, Progressives, are just different flavors or names for essentially the same thing.

Eric, you’re high on something. It is not a battle between the Left and Right, but between Republicans and Democrats who each must battle the destructive effects of their ____-Wing extremists and try to turn it into something useful and constructive.
Nor are there just two types of Right Wing extremists on the Republican side and just one Commie-socialist one on the Dems side. There are dozens of flavors of Rightist and Leftist nutballs each Party must find the good in and filter out some or most of their more destructive, voter-repelling ideas.
The Dems did a better job than the Republicans in that screening and filtering.
More and more, the Republican image is of an intolerant Southern conservative, believer in more wars for Israel, theocracy, evangelical morality..telling the unfortunate it is their own fault..a deep believer in the inerrancy of all Reagan’s 40-year old economic ideas.
*********************
JP – I believe that the heart-felt, even desperate support for Sarah Palin as the next spokesperson of Republicanism and Conservatism is a paradigm for what is wrong. She may be a smart, dedicated, attractive politician with “star power”. But she is unable to put a simple sentence together unless she is reading it from a 3 X 5 card. Is such a person ready for national office? I agree with Asher. This whole “Joe Sixpack”, “Joe the Plumber”, “Real America guys ‘n gals” sort of anti-intellectualism is driving people out of the Republican Party.

Nice comment. I notice that others instantly rise to defend her, one comparing His Goddess to Dwight Eisenhower, of all people..(on the premise that the Supreme Allied Commander then US CiC was an “anti-intellectual”???)

***************
Dave – Serious conservatism wins EVERY TIME ITS TRIED. Social conservatism, fiscal conservatism, foreign policy conservatism… when we have conservative candidates or conservative positions in referendums, THEY WIN.

I guess Dave missed out on the extermination of “movement conservatives” everywhere outside Jesusland. All the Reagan acolytes in California? Gone. Mr. Conservative Bob Smith and others in the “Live Free or Die” State? Gone. The battlin’ true believers of the Midwest and Rocky Mountatin States and Great Lake States? Gone. Even the South is being whittled away. Texas and Arizona are trending Hispanic and Democratic. The “New South States” have little use or reason to elect Dave’s “They WIN everytime!!” sort of conservatives like George Allen, Liddy Dole, old torch carriers like Gilmore. Even Saxby Chambliss in Georgia has had to go into a runoff against the most liberal member of the Georgia State Senate.

And perhaps the prize is Christian zealot Rick Santorum, another Mr. Conservative now beaten and loathed in his home state. His name has faded into obscurity along with the likes of B-1 Bob Dornan…except as a nationally-recognized slang word for the secretions coming from the rectum after anal sex.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:33 pm 63. Russell Zagrodzky:

The Reagan revolution changed the landscape; succeeded for a while; but was ultimately a failure.

There is no way to defeat a liberal agenda which incrementally offers “free” stuff at the expense of someone else…unless the process of tax and spend is changed. Therein is the failure of the Reagan Revolution. All of the effort was expended on skirmishes which were ultimately undone in subsequent election cycles.

The Hedgehog Party proposes a constitutional change to tax and spend that requires broad support for changes in taxation and spending. Check it out.

Nov 17, 2008 - 6:58 pm 64. Herrina:

“We will continue to fail at that goal as long as we continue trying to find ways to beat “them”, where “them” is our fellow Americans. We will continue to fail at that goal as long as we continue to conduct politics like so many 5 year olds in a sandbox. ”

What are you trying to say? In recent years, we Republicans have failed because we were unwilling to engage in political battle. Please review how the Democrats have conducted themselves over the last few years. Were they reaching out to Republicans to reach a consensus on issues? No! They were fighting political battles to ensure that they won! They spread distortions and lies through the media to create political advantage, and, guess what? They won! We have bent over backwards (see Senate compromise on judicial nominations)to work with the Democrats, and we have nothing to show for it!

Politics is messy…that’s the way it has been since our country was formed. If you want to prevail, you have to fight for your beliefs. At this point, I see no one on the Republican side who is willing to do that.

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:04 pm 65. Herrina:

“JP – I believe that the heart-felt, even desperate support for Sarah Palin as the next spokesperson of Republicanism and Conservatism is a paradigm for what is wrong. She may be a smart, dedicated, attractive politician with “star power”. But she is unable to put a simple sentence together unless she is reading it from a 3 X 5 card. Is such a person ready for national office? I agree with Asher. This whole “Joe Sixpack”, “Joe the Plumber”, “Real America guys ‘n gals” sort of anti-intellectualism is driving people out of the Republican Party.

Nice comment. I notice that others instantly rise to defend her, one comparing His Goddess to Dwight Eisenhower, of all people..(on the premise that the Supreme Allied Commander then US CiC was an “anti-intellectual”???)”

I will say it one more time…80% approval rating, which means her performance is supported by Democrats and Republicans. No other politician in American today can claim approval ratings anywhere close to that.

She is either governing very well, or the people of Alaska are very stupid.

YOu decide.

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:09 pm 66. G Alston:

#46 Mickey

Let’s assume an alternate reality where you social “conservatives” get your way and abortion, the dread harbinger of social downfall, is banned. You rejoice, and go to sleep that first night knowing that abortions will no longer be performed.

Guess what? It takes $300 to $500, which is ridiculously affordable to the middle class, to get on a plane someplace and have an abortion. Another $750 for the procedure. No problem. Too poor for an abortion? Charities will take care of that for you. Planned parenthood to the rescue.

How do you stop that? Pregnancy tests in airports and/or border crossings? Good luck with that.

Let’s look at what you’ll have accomplished. You will have stopped NOTHING. Instead, you will have traded what remained of the only viable anti-socialist party and piddled it on your pet social issue. You will have permanently marginalized the republican brand for nothing.

Fortunately, however, abortion isn’t going going anywhere, and the reason is because a lot of people far smarter than you are able to figure out the cost of jet travel. These are the same people who managed to figure out that leaving it to the states was also an equation dealing with travel costs.

There’s this thing called pragmatism, and I think it’s high time you social conservatives learned about it.

Nov 17, 2008 - 7:10 pm 67. Herrina:

“There’s this thing called pragmatism, and I think it’s high time you social conservatives learned about it.”

Speaking of pragmatism, how many other countries legalized abortion via court ruling rather than legislation?

Nov 17, 2008 - 8:30 pm 68. Left Coast Insurgent:

Rather than picking and choosing constituencies to reach the magical 51+% needed to win elections, the right needs to actively grow its base across the board, but most especially by playing to the lower-to-middle classes, and especially to new immigrants. This is the missing piece of the traditional fiscal-conservative philosophy: it seemingly offers nothing for the little people. We need to complete the picture by articulating and demonstrating the capacity of conservative principles, properly understood and enacted, to empower those on the lower economic rungs and promote their upward mobility. The old addage, “give a man a fish and he heats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime” illustrates the missing piece of the puzzle. Democrats are the ultimate givers of fish…or perhaps the “redistributors” of fish. Republicans need – at the grassroots and in a very personal and widespread way – to become the fishing instructors.

In the same way that Democratic grassroots organizations get out the vote, agitate for community action, push for subprime mortgages, etc., Republican grassroots organizations need to become educators, mobilizing the masses with sensible, actionable ideas rather than empty rhetoric and electioneering. If we lay the groundwork, the votes will follow. We need to teach personal financial responsibility, pride in work, pride in ownership, the value of saving, planning for the future, investing when you can…many of these basic money lessons which those in the upper middle class learn by osmosis, but which need to be taught clearly and with conviction to those hoping someday to be upper middle class… Maybe, God Forbid, we need to pick up the slack for our public school systems and teach some remedial math. When people are empowered to manage their own finances and understand clearly where their money goes, attitudes toward taxation and fiscal responsibility in government will change, and votes will follow.

New immigrants offer a particular opportunity. Republicans need to shed the (mostly) undeserved impression that they are anti-immigrant…which is to say, we need to be the most vociferous proponents of LEGAL immigration, and we need – again – grassroots action to back up the rhetoric. We need to reach out to immigrant communities in ways that will empower and uplift, and again, education is key. Teach English, teach American civics, help new immigrants to navigate the path toward citizenship, help them to understand and appreciate American culture, celebrate diversity while promoting integration into the broader society. New immigrants, perhaps more than any other element of American society, have a keen and fundamental optimism for the American dream – that’s why they are here. We need to reinforce and build upon this optimism, rather than allow ourselves to be portrayed as authoritarian xenophobes. Many immigrants, notably from Asia and Latin America, also tend to maintain fairly socially conservative values, values which – articulated in the right way – are readily compatible with conventional Republican values.

But we need to articulate effectively. And genuinely WORK at the grassroots to make these things happen.

Nov 17, 2008 - 8:47 pm 69. bobby b:

Wow. Such Confusion.

One guy says, the problem is that the Republican message appeals to an ever-shrinking pool. That’s much like saying more and more people believe you can avoid getting pregnant by wearing a copper bracelet. The efficacy of the bracelet doesn’t change with time, and neither does the efficacy of a system of relatively less interference with free-market principles combined with a smaller, less intrusive government. However, people’s whims and moods and insecurities change cyclicly over time, and so during some periods, we see lots of copper bracelets (usually on pregnant women’s wrists) and we see lots of calls for government stepping in as everyone’s very expensive mommy.

All we can do is educate, both about bracelets and about economics. Sadly the last eight years worth of winning R politicians have been walking billboards for Democrats. So much for our education initiative. You aren’t going to persuade voters of the merits of small honest government as you openly promise to buy your neighbor mink-covered bidets for all state buildings – from her husband the mink farmer – if she’ll help you arrange for all of your relatives to get free memberships to the “Mercedes of the Week” Club. (”A new, fresh Mercedes delivered to your door just as you need it!”)

Another person – “moderately radical” or some such nonsense – “dumbly witty”? – says real people just want big hugs, and Obama gives big hugs. As long as we continue to foolishly insist that everyone vote – that judgment, knowledge, research, or attention to issues don’t matter at all – we’ll get more and more voters like this. Think Edwards was dumb to spend so much time on his hair? “Keenly confused” and all of her voting bloc are probably still mad he lost. For those people, please see comment #1 above. They don’t need any substantive attention. They need fluffy hair and hugs. That’s why they invented the hucksters.

Why should we win? Because we’re nicer, and more honest? Not judging by the people we sent last time. Because the economic principles we believe to be the best, really ARE the best? Who knows – we’ve not shown any principles for eight years.

Nov 17, 2008 - 8:49 pm 70. njcommuter:

Never defend. If the other candidate says you’re Satan, and you ignore it, most people won’t pay attention even if you ARE Satan. Take advantage of the information overload, and the fact that non-political-junkie Americans hear so much trash talk ever day that they habitually tune it out.

Straight defense is a losers game. But turning blow against the one who threw it is very effective. (”I refuse to make an issue of my opponent’s youth and inexperience.”) When that’s not possible, block the blow. (”We saw thirty million more people employed!”) When that’s not possible, counterpunch and escape. (”My opponent’s so-called solutions are what got us into this mess in the first place. Let’s get back to honest budgets and honest work!”)

All of this has to take place under a well-articulated philosophy or set of principles. The battle that takes place at that level shapes and slopes the playing field on which the individual strikes are made.

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:48 pm 71. G Alston:

#67 Herrina — “Speaking of pragmatism, how many other countries legalized abortion via court ruling rather than legislation?”

Ahhh, the “activist judges” argument writ internationally. Indeed, evil judges are everywhere, and in some countries they even get to wear funny wigs whilst rendering their amoral decisions.

Did you have a point?

Nov 17, 2008 - 9:48 pm 72. Gozer the Carpathian:

Rachel Peepers has a good point that we need to attack and not defend. It’s been working for the NRA for a few years now (and it’s still going on. We’ve already started attacking any all new attempts at taking away the 2nd amendment rights.) when you combine the attack with a clear and STUCK TO message.

That’s one of the biggest problems republicans had this election (and why my vote went Libertarian this year) is that we may talk the talk but we deffinetly don’t walk the walk. Now Dems can get away with saying one thing and doing another because they’re not held accountable as much. As Republicans we MUST hold true to our principles, and state them regularly and often. Another thing the Reagan did was EDUCATE the electorate. He didn’t just stand around looking pretty and saying funny lines (though that helped) he also tried to tell people WHY he wanted to do what he did. Why he supported this, letting folks know the whys (and more than just because I’m a Christian or what have you) will go miles to getting us ahead in the future.

Fight the Lies. Attack the Damn lies, and use statistics for ourselves!

Nov 17, 2008 - 11:11 pm 73. DoctorOfLove:

We get to pick between Cultural Facists and Economic Socialists. Terrific.

Nov 17, 2008 - 11:25 pm 74. Liberty:

Mr Henke makes an interesting argument. But reading through the comments I see also some valid criticism, for example, principle must come before marketing. We must believe what we are saying before we can defend our arguments with conviction and alacrity. There is a major reason why conservatives are on the defensive. We already have the most open, tolerant and prosperous society in history. No other country would have tolerated Ayers nor given him voice and sinecure [(from Latin … without… care) … an office which requires or involves little or no responsibility, labor, or active service...] in the noble struggle to be fair and just and open. Because we are already on the high ground there is no other intellectual position than defense. Nonetheless, even in defense conservatives cannot be meek nor timid in asserting the soundness of the principles which achieved the current pinnacle of human society, nor in attacking the shifts in policy and legislation which will destroy what we have achieved, nor should we deny that more can be done.

There are many threats to our freedom inherent in the proposals suggested in Mr Obama’s campaign and backed by the Congress-With-Agenda: Pelosi, Frank, Reid, Dodd, Schumer, et al. These people are all elitists. They are Europhiles with little or no respect for the American working class. Their socialist/Marxist views are European. They are ashamed of working-class Americans. Their friends and business partners are foreigners. And therein lies a good point of attack: members of our government are financially connected to foreign nations, directly and indirectly. Pelosi has no unions in her vineyards.

Most of the Hollywood sychophants have indeed forgotten where they came from and have no respect for their roots. With research we can expose them for the empty souls they are and cease funding their endeavors. They threaten to move to foreign parts if their political agenda are not achieved. Well….bye.

Indeed the party of the rich is the Democrats. Safe from the egalitarian dictates of socialism, they will not be living in the projects when there are no jobs. All the donations of the fabulous wealthy should be exposed. Bill Gates et al. don’t try to help poor Americans. Doesn’t matter that it was working class Americans that made them rich.

The agenda of these fabulously rich and famous Americans without patriotism is clearly a utopian one-world government. They have been seduced by the European rich. They want to see a great society, a one world government, because they have neither learning nor courage nor conviction nor ethics nor patriotism.

What they have is influence.

Now I ask you, do you really want some French, English, German, Chinese bureaucrat dictating what or how our lives should be led? Whether or not we should have a gun or not? How much we can drive our cars? Whether through some international union rules, or fair trade rules, or international agreements about work or lifestyle we are allowed to do what we want, or build what we want, or start a company making what we want, or an internet application that we think other people might want to buy from us? Well, that’s what Mr Obama is setting out to do.

As Power Line said: “…[T]o please foreigners …, he will back measures that limit U.S. sovereignty. … In the November 17 issue of the National Review (not available online to my knowledge), John Fonte of the Hudson Institute identifies four “transnational power grabs” that Obama is likely to push for They are: the Law of the Sea Treaty, the Rights of the Child Treaty, the Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), and the International Criminal Court. Agreement by the U.S. to these arrangements would make us more popular with foreigners, but only at a cost to our national security, our right of self-governance, and our rights under the Constitution.”
(Power Line Blog: John Hindeaker, Scott Johnson, Paul Mirengoff
http://www.powerlineblog.com, November 8, 2008 Posted by Paul at 10:16 PM).

In addition there is great threat that the aforementioned quintumverate: Pelosi, Dodd,
Frank, Schumer, Reid, will pass legislation imposing FDA regulations on carbon dioxide, and burden our industry with cap and trade regulations of carbon dioxide emissions, Al Gore’s hoax which has made him rich. Not to mention the Global Poverty Act (H.R. 1302 and S. 2433) which makes levels of US foreign aid subservient to dictates of UN. Commits US to 0.7% og GNP. In 13 yrs that $845 billion over what US already spends. Mr Obam sponsored that.

One great ideologic contradiction of the Left agenda is “diversity.” In our American society we have attempted, in a sense of fair play, to tolerate all points of view and all peoples If we submit to a one world, global government we will have abandoned our goal of diversity. If a single government dominates we are in danger of succumbing to one of life‘s most foolish mistakes — putting all your eggs in one basket. The Irish starved because they had only one kind of potato. In its land of origin there were 600 varieties.

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:43 am 75. Peter M.:

It’s time for a bloodletting; it’s time to purge David Brooks and the Sam’s Club Republicans from the GOP. It’s time to rediscover old principles. See here:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-fall/decline-fall-american-conservatism.asp

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:22 am 76. mac:

It is not going to be as difficult to beat the Dems in 2010 as people are thinking right now. Obama hasn’t pitched an inning yet and everyone on his side thought the other side was against him because they hated “n*****s.” What the lefty haters didn’t realize is that it wasn’t dislike for his color, it was dislike for his proposed policies and his prior record that motivated most of those who voted against him.

The lefties won’t believe that now. Give them two years of Obama trying to be all things to all people, and failing miserably at it while presiding over a dismal economy, and they’ll start to see the light. It’s my prediction that an awful lot of people who did ugly things this election against Republicans will grow up to realize what total jerks they were this year, and how gullible they were to have been fooled so easily.

Republicans need only have two arguments for government and they can win. The first is that government does little well. Only in the things where the scope of enforcement is greater than private business can cope does the government have a true place. The second is that government does NOTHING efficiently. Any time government gets involved costs go up, productivity goes down, and there is less value produced for each dollar spent.

It’s that simple. Shrink the government, cut the taxes, put the money back in the hands of the people who pay it. To those who say “government must help us” the response should be, “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”

This country was at its greatest when people realized they were responsible for themselves. The emergence of the nanny state has weakened the country. Machiavelli was right when he argued that liberal rulers will always be hated because they can never give enough to make everyone happy. A miserly President, who wielded the veto pen remorselessly in defense of the American people’s pocketbooks, would probably be cheered to the echo by many and deeply respected by all but the nutjob lefties.

If the American people fail to respond to that type of message, then we’re sunk as a nation anyway.

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:16 am 77. Bandit:

You’ve got to stand for something – what the left stands for – stealing other people’s money for there own use sucks, but at least they stand for something. The right needs to stand for principles of freedom and small gov’t. It may be unpopular for a while but these things go in cycles. But if your stance is running up the deficit on unpopular programs then you’re just a bad version of the Democrats.

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:52 am 78. Al Reasin:

Even Mr. Reagan did not reduce government. Note the Dept of Education’s continence. It is so difficult too reduce government in the face of an overwhelming desire by far too many to want government to solve their problems; and with almost one half of our citizenry outside of the federal tax rolls with nothing seemingly at stake for them personally to accept more government support, what is the motive for the general population to make the federal government smaller, more efficient and to return control to the states and local government where decisions are closer to the people? We at the American Conservative Party are wrestling with these concerns. Come join us in this effort, http://americanconservativeparty.org

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:56 am 79. Asher:

fAbortion. It is both a deeply religious as well as a human rights issue. Conservatives can also harness the black, as well as Latino vote here, both with the appeal (as seen so clear with Prop. to their natural religious conservatism, as well as appealling to their sense of racial discrimination and oppresion. A huge percentage of abortions are minorities.

Oh you can’t be serious. Blacks and Latinos who vote Democrat do so for one thing and one thing only: more free stuff. The only electoral strategy that works along the lines of appeals to oppression will be by offering them more free stuff, but then you’d lose the white middle class in droves.

The Right tries to appeal to reason rather than emotion.

Abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, Terry Schiavo, and while terror is a legitimate political issue, the way that the GOP addresses it is highly emotional.

Actually the biggest demographic we lost was single women. Those who might consider the availability of abortion important. We can win them back by promising to lead by example – not force of law.

Not only this, but single mothers are more Democrat than are single and childless, meaning that when women have an abortion they are making themselves just a little bit less Democrat than if they decided to keep the baby.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the GOP would get more help from techies if they would tell the very loud voices coming from some of their supporters about how evil and wrong science is. You can’t expect support from technical / scientific people if you have supporters who insist that they are evil, that they have no morals, that they are trying to destroy this country.

Damn right. I have a boatload of techie type friends, Microsoft, etc. who are basically personally conservative but who loathe the GOP. Any guesses as to why?

One guy says, the problem is that the Republican message appeals to an ever-shrinking pool.

Objective fact. Don’t confuse the technical aspects of policy with electoral aspects of policy. Take school choice, while it may have some technical potential for beneficial effects, although I think it’s overrated, it is an electoral disaster for the GOP. Almost no blacks will be moved to vote for a candidate solely for this policy and white suburbanites will leave the GOP in opposition to school choice. Take Michael Steele in Maryland: the Baltimore suburbs flipped massively against the GOP precisely because of school choice. Steele promised affluent suburbanites that he’d flood their suburban school systems with high-crime, low-IQ students, the mean IQ of students in Baltimore is probably less than 80, while in the suburbs it’s probably pushing 105, and they voted to keep low-achieving students out of their school districts.

So, whatever the technical benefits of a policy may be, it’s electoral effectiveness is far more important.

All we can do is educate, both about bracelets and about economics.

NO!!! What you can do is when you are in power hurt their voters and help your voters, it’s what the Democrats do. Politics is war by other means, so I suggest you start looking at politics as a war, a zero-sum game, the direct opposite of market transactions.

“It was all a popularity contest which was tipped in Obama’s favor by young, uninformed, unquestioning new voters. ”

This is simply idiotic. Some of the biggest demographic swings occurred in the top income earners and highest IQ voters. With “thinkers” like these the GOP is toast.

Time to get a new electoral coalition.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:54 am 80. Eric S.:

One thing that seems conspicuously absent from everyone’s laundry lists of “Things To Be Done”…

The Republican “machine” must have some sort of self-regulating feedback controller, i.e., it cannot be allowed to run amok again. This cannot be a simple “Oh, trust us, we’ve learned the lessons of ‘06 & ‘08.” The only way that I see this can be achieved is for all of us collectively to “Trust, but verify.” and then hold our own side’s feet to the fire.

- Eric.

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:33 am 81. mitchhi » Blog Archive » Internet ‘Rightroots’ Key to GOP Revival:

[...] Pages: 12 [...]

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:52 am 82. Asher:

The Republican “machine” must have some sort of self-regulating feedback controller,

You’re putting the cart before the horse, since we don’t even know what sort of feedback we’re supposed to be looking for, and this conversation is precisely about what sort of feedback is the correct one to assess. “Things to do” only becomes relevant if those “things” are things that are electoral winners.

Pushing school choice is an excellent example, it may be a technical benefit to some kids, but it is a completely electoral loser. Any focus that the GOP places on school choice is going to make me less likely to vote GOP, since it can only hurt the GOP, electorally. And, as Osama bin Laden once pointed out: when people see a horserace, they want to back the strong horse.

The GOP is the weak horse, right now, and its “better ideas” are not going to do it any good because those “better ideas” are, mostly, electoral losers.

Time to get a new coalition.l

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:53 am 83. AnalogKid:

Your 5 steps are fine as they go, but they lack a vision, a scope, principles – in short, an architecture. Architecture does not emerge organically from swimming in the same direction. Right roots needs to understand that the roots are there to nourish the tree, but that there are leaves above ground watering the roots.

-john

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:55 am 84. The Historian:

SUICIDAL BIG BIASED MEDIA
Network television and print news outlets have put doctrine above profitability. They are in free fall as a result:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/big-biased-media.html

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:56 am 85. Tennwriter:

The arguement in the Intartubes can be broken down into three parts.
1. Who’s to blame?
2. What to do now?
3. General Philosophical Rantings.

Let’s deal with #3 first. I have no objection to sitting down and discussing the existence of God (proven), the evil of Abortion (proven), the need to lower regulation and taxes(proven) and their relatively weak counterarguements with Randians, Libertarians, Moderates, and plain unclassifiables. But such arguements often get in the way of the more practical arguements. So, I’d like to see some articles on these issues where things could be thrashed out. But this is not really the time for all the libertarians to come out and clog practical discussions up with irrelevancies.

And now to #1. Who’s to blame? RINO’s and Country Clubbers. John McCain was the liberal Republican, MSM, and frequently liberal Democrat crossover voter, and Moderate candidate. He’s the Prince of the Moderates.

He is not a social conservative, and was widely regarded as an enemy of them. He is not a libertarian, and to the extent that he was aware they existed, he probably sneered at them too.

I voted for him because, in part, I viewed Sarah Palin, as part of a promise not to deliberately try to destroy the conservative base which I rather suspected he was going to do before Palin (which is why I was leaning toward Hunter.)

We also had massive ‘compassionate conservatism’, no vetos for eight years, and a war that is successful but came at a great cost in energy and will and money.
One of the chief problems with the war was that it was not executed with enough enthusiasm. You tell Jacksonians “Its on!” and they believe you, but then you run the war at half-speed and it doesn’t work that well with the Jacksonian temperment and mindset.

None of these are Socon or Tarian positions.

This is largely incontestable, and I don’t really see much reason to discuss again and again the canard that ’socons lost us the election’. Its beyond ridiculous, and approaching willful ignorance. The socons got a few bones tossed to them, and were treated as a vote farm, and regularly sprayed with acid.

And finally, for #2. What do we do now?

We put the Standard Conservative in positions of power, and enforce a Standard Conservative view on the Party. I favor the ‘Big Temple’ approach rather than the ‘Big Tent’ approach. Each of us has some portions of the truth that is conservatism, some have more, some have less, but all have some. We take what you can offer, and use it to help build the Big Temple of Republican Conservatism.

All of us have ideas and values that don’t help out conservatism. We all have weaknessess, and poorly thought through ideas. And some ideas may just not fit. You keep those ideas.

Its time to remind ourselves that we are the Party of Honest Abe Lincoln. Honest. Ugly as a stick. Raised in a log cabin and learned to read by candlelight. Quick-witted. Well-learned, but did not allow this learning to sway him from the truth. Surrounded by moral cowards, and often served by incompetents, and faced with Copperhead Democrats, still he prevailed.

Honest Abe Lincoln deals with the rampant pork-barrelling and cheating going on. He counters the classism that so disgusted us as Sarah Palin was trashed for not having an Ivy League degree. He reminds us that good ideas are the base, but learning and cleverness and a sense of humor are essential for their proper implementation. He reminds us that victory often comes right after the darkest moments. He tells us that treating human beings as property is morally abhorrent and that this nation can not be long divided between slave and free, between those who view babies as chattel property and those who see human life. He reminds us of the need for eloquence and convictions which go together. He reminds us that there may be a horrible cost for doing the right thing, but that its worth it.

I could say more about strategy and tactics, but I think I will leave you with that image. A man with a slab-sided face, not pretty, with eyes so sad, but determined, a gaunt figure determined to do the right thing. Like Maggie Thatcher, like Reagan, like George Washington, like Horatio at the Bridge, he won.

For how better for a man to die than for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods.

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:06 am 86. Asher:

I have no objection to sitting down and discussing the existence of God (proven), the evil of Abortion (proven)

You, my friend, are precisely why the GOP is collapsing. “Proven”? Do you mean “demonstrated”??? You prove things that a logically necessary, and I can’t imagine how in the world you’d go about “proving” the “evil” of abortion. Proofs for the existence of God? I mean they are diverting mental exercises, but they have very little, to no, relation to anything in the human world. The fact is that our species has always been very concerned with the quality of the children brought into their local environment/society.

The case for immigration control is just one aspect of general control of the local population, and which children are born lies in the same category as immigration control. Each new immgrant has the potential to change the immediate social environment for better, or worse, and in the same say each new child born has the same potential impact.

I could say more about strategy and tactics, but I think I will leave you with that image.

Actually, you have said precisely nothing about strategy and tactics, and, frankly, your “image” sounds suspiciously pornographic.

Your entire post was one big bout of mental masturbation.

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:03 am 87. tfgray:

“We should build unifying grievances.”
Um, wasn’t that what Republicans bashed the Left, specifically community organizers, for doing? Are you really suggesting that tactics are evil when used against you and good when you use them? This strikes me as the central flaw of conservative thinking: Hypocrisy.

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:25 am 88. nlcatter:

social conservatism is permanent minority.

Nov 18, 2008 - 11:11 am 89. James Nightshade:

nlcatter, libertarianism is the best way to permanent minority status. If you’ve been listening to the hoi polloi recently, they aren’t chanting “cut my taxes”, but “why don’t I get bailed out?”

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:14 pm 90. Tennwriter:

Asher,

“Demonstrated” is more precise jargon for intellectuals. Most of the country, including most of the so-called intellectuals use ‘prove’ in the sense that I used it all the time. I grant you that I can’t make an absolutely rigorous proof like mathematics, but I can make a very solid case that should be sufficient to prove my point.

I do not object to truly learned and wise men, but I do object to cultural shibboleths that denote who’s in the upper class, and thus worthy of being taken seriously.

Am I to take the meaning of your thoughts on immigration control to mean that you think the Border Patrol should have the right to shoot any immigrant they deem to be not useful to society? If not, whatever are you talking about?

Strategy…start with principles, fix the blame squarely on RINOs, elevate the Socons and the responsible Libertarians, and remember we’re the Party of Abe Lincoln.

“Suspiciously pornographic.” Whatever are you talking about? You see, I’m not very smart, and you’re going to have to actually explain what you’re talking about rather than engaging in poetic metaphors or whatever it is you’re going on about. If you’re saying “He sounds like he reveres that Lincoln fellow, and thinks he’s a great model for our current pols….” Why yes, I do. But no, I don’t have any desire to see your collection of Lincoln pron.

Nov 18, 2008 - 1:23 pm 91. Mickey:

Folks…no society or person has ever, EVER, come out on top by declaring other people as property.

Abortion takes the life of a real, beating heart, human being. It is a brutal, inhuman “procedure” that dehumanizes everyone it touches, men, women, and children.

60% of all abortions are coerced…50% of all black babies are aborted. It is quite possibly the most misogynist, racist act in history…and you want to turn a blind eye?

Truth, my friends, is truth…you call it “pragmatism” to abandon your humanity, I call it moral and societal bankruptcy.

You want pragmatism? How ’bout tryin’ this one on for size…who will be declared a “nonperson” next? The elderly who is dependent on someone else for healthcare? The disabled person who “doesn’t look like us”? The dark skinned man, the poor woman? Are you next?

If the Party of Lincoln, who began in opposition to slavery, doesn’t oppose this new form of slavery (that a fetus is not a person), then we have lost our way and should be disbanded.

I am sickened by people who want to “win elections” so much they’re willing to sacrifice innocents to do it…you’re no better than the Dems if you take that tact.

The truth is that we can win elections without emptying our souls to do it.

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:54 pm 92. G Alston:

#91 Mickey — “I am sickened by people who want to “win elections” so much they’re willing to sacrifice innocents to do it…you’re no better than the Dems if you take that tact.”

Let’s recap: I was pointing out that for various technical reasons abortion is an issue that can’t be won, even if it is defeated.

Of course, by pointing out what’s fairly obvious, apparently I sicken you. Why? because I pointed this out? Or are you assuming that I’m endorsing something by discussing it?

Fascinating.

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:25 pm 93. Jason Sieckmann:

I find it simply amazing that you care about exchanging Coke for Pepsi; but not actual moral philosophical ground for which to exchange one for the other.

You simply want Coke back on top; whether they should be there morally and constitutionally or not.

And, because of this very reasoning; that is why regular people can’t tell one candidate from the other one.

They both vote for party interests as opposed to the moral, constitutional principle that the state shouldn’t intervene into sectors of the economy and that democracy is not an open vote on all matters of society; such at ratification of marriage.

So, based on your A-Moralistic approach; if Republicans ever get back in before becoming the Whig party; they will be exactly as bad as our current set of cronies.

You have no morals; you just want your fighter to win. You don’t ever bother to ask what the fight is actually about.

Read Atlas Shrugged before you type again.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:50 pm 94. Dave D:

Problem though is that the way the left organized was because the netroot aspect was unified around a common ideology. Conservatives aren’t, there is a tension between the various factions which will preclude building that kind of stable grassroots.

You can see it with the infighting between paleo, neo, and obamacons. Or between social conservatives, and fiscal ones that are liberal socially.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:00 pm 95. G Alston:

#94 — “You can see it with the infighting between paleo, neo, and obamacons. Or between social conservatives, and fiscal ones that are liberal socially.”

Not really. There is some infighting, but only between the average run of the mill republicans and the fundie crowd who presumes to hijack the party. Hopefully this will be over soon. The fundies will pack their bags and go home; they’ll have no alternatives. Certainly the party can’t continue to natter about utterly nonsensical non-issues like gay marriage and abortion while the rest of the country goes on with solving *actual* real world problems. Nobody in the republican party can possibly be that stupid.

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:08 pm 96. vivo:

20. Mickey:

“I’m afraid vivo, et al, are missing the point…it isn’t conservative values that are unpopular, it is the GOP’s inability to communicate what their values are.”

If more Republicans thought like you, you would be winning more elections and respect.

(For those coming in late, READ the whole #20) * * *

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:08 pm 97. vivo:

62. cedarford:

“A big kernel of truth in what Vivo said. All too much, Republican principles and policies are directed against “them”, the other 80% of Americans.”

See #20. It’s interesting.

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:27 pm 98. AeroSpear:

Interesting article.

http://dontgomovement.com/ is doing just that, building the Rightroots movement. I encourage everyone to check it out.

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:37 pm 99. stilletto:

I sentence every contributor to this thread to three months reading the Greek classics, not necessarily in the original Greek. You may be struck by how unoriginal your musings are. Or not.

Nov 19, 2008 - 5:51 am 100. Asher:

Objective types of life are more important than values. Objective material class differences create the conditions for their survival by creating “values”. The difference between “right” and “left” is not one of values but of real objective material differences in life-types.

Nietzsche > Plato
EO Wilson >> Aristotle

@Jason

The real fight is not over values but over which life-type will rule the other(s).

Nov 19, 2008 - 10:09 am 101. Mickey:

G.Alson: Fair point…and my apologies for getting unecessarily personal.

What I’m “sickened” by is the proposition that we turn our backs on an issue because we’re not making the case convincingly. We shouldn’t turn our backs on abortion as an issue any more than we turned our backs on slavery as an issue.

The problem with this particular issue is that we’ve allowed the left to define it as a “religious issue.” It’s not…abortion is a human rights issue. Either the embryo/fetus/baby is a person who has Constitutional protections or not. If we “downplay” someone’s right to life, or God-forbid abandon it, then we don’t deserve Lincoln’s or Reagan’s mantle.

I’m active duty now, but when I get out of the military in a few years, I hope to run for office…my platform is at #20

Nov 19, 2008 - 10:27 am 102. Asher:

It’s not…abortion is a human rights issue. E

If you look at the demographics of abortions, the profile is that of a population that would have voted 80 percent Democrat had they become adults, meaning that you’d have around 10 million net more Democrat voters this last election. Given that the average adult IQ of an aborted fetus would probably be somewhere between 85 and 90 you’d have a marked increased in every single category of social problem.

Just assessing affirmative action, minority set-asides and anti-discrimination laws, the net transfer of resources to blacks in America is +9400 dollars per year and from whites -1900 dollars per year, for hispanics it is +4000 dollars/year. If every single baby aborted since Roe had become an adult that would mean you’d have somewhere close to 25 million more black Americans, and this, in turn, would entail even greater wealth transfers away from white Americans.

Please explain how these could possibly be good things for you and your children.

Nov 19, 2008 - 11:18 am 103. G Alston:

#101 — Mickey “It’s not…abortion is a human rights issue.”

As I said, even in an alternate reality in which you could win, you still lose. Therefore abortion is a NON issue. Period. It doesn’t matter how you frame it. You still lose.

The left is dangerous and can do serious damage to the republic. The republican party is the only thing standing in the way. And you want to waste valuable time and capital in a fight that can’t possibly be won? If you want to waste YOUR time and YOUR money, cool, go for it, but in pushing for the party to burn clocks on issues that can never be won, you’re now wasting MY time, and as a bonus, the left has a gun pointed at us and you’re pulling the trigger for them.

Nov 19, 2008 - 12:35 pm 104. Mickey:

#102. Asher said, “Please explain how these could possibly be good things for you and your children.”

I don’t really understand your question…Are you suggesting that it is acceptable to practice eugenics through murder so long as the economics work out for the wealthy?

You’re argument sounds a lot like the Margaret Sanger’s arguments…and why most Planned Parenthood abortion mills are in poor Black neighborhoods. I think you’re the one who needs to explain how sanctioned murder of minorities is good for you and your children.

Nov 19, 2008 - 12:40 pm 105. Mickey:

#103. G.Alston…the fight CAN be won. The only way it will be lost is if people abandon it. The problem isn’t the issue, it’s the inept and self-serving way the GOP has handled it, allowing the Left to drive the conversation instead of vice versa. In fact, Mr Obama actually WON an election by appealing to people’s desire for a better world, “hope” was the message. Love it or hate it…Americans responded to the message.

But let’s talk about having a “gun to our head…”. Since 1973, 40 million Americans have been removed from our society forcefully…and as at least a by product if not a direct result of this cheapening of human life violent crime took a sharp increase, as did drug use, teen pregnancy, divorce, child abuse, abuse of women and attacks on the family.

Abortion is a cancer that is rotting, or perhaps already has rotted, the foundation of American society.

Declaring the battle “unwinnable” to focus on other issues will not solve the other issues. You can polish the apple, but there’s still a worm in it.

Want to fix the budget? Awesome, me too…let’s expand the tax base to include another 40 million American wage earners.

Want to fix social security? Terrific, me too…let’s have a fertility rate that enables the program to support itself, rather than barely replacing ourselves.

Want to have a strong national defense? I’m on board…let’s have a larger pool of military age Americans to recruit from.

Health care? Energy? How much innovation was sucked out of an abortionists vacuum cleaner tube and dumped as “medical waste”?

Turning a blind eye to the holocaust of 40,000,000 children in this country is a bankrupt utilitarian philosophy that serves no one. It certainly doesn’t serve this Republic, and it’s contrary to every value we hold as Americans.

Nov 19, 2008 - 1:05 pm 106. G Alston:

#105 Mickey — “Turning a blind eye to the holocaust of 40,000,000 children in this country is a bankrupt utilitarian philosophy that serves no one.”

English lessons. “Turning a blind eye” is a phrase rooted in the assumption that one can do something about abortion but chooses otherwise.

This is not what I have said.

What I *did* say:

a) outlaw abortion, and women will travel cheaply to other countries for procedures.
b) outlawing abortion does no good because outlawing it has zero effect.
c) therefore, even if you win, you still lose.

Repeat (c) until you get it.

Nov 19, 2008 - 1:54 pm 107. Mickey:

Oh I heard you…I just don’t agree.

By your logic, nothing should be illegal since people “do it any way.”

I’m not willing to accept the murder of children and victimization of women as “an unwinnable fight.”

Nov 19, 2008 - 2:44 pm 108. G Alston:

#107 Mickey — “By your logic, nothing should be illegal since people “do it any way.”

I didn’t say that, either. You’re just as bad as that David character at putting words in people’s mouth. I said what I said about a specific subject, and nothing more.

Moderator: Is this place always like this or did I stumble upon an analomous influx of “special” people?

Nov 19, 2008 - 4:07 pm 109. Mickey:

#108 – G. Alston:

You said, “outlaw abortion, and women will travel cheaply to other countries for procedures.”

Which is the same thing as saying, “Why bother, people will do it anyway.”

We have LOTS of laws on the books to regulate behavior…what we in the Pro-Life community are asking for, working for, is a law that explicitly protects every American from conception to natural death from having their lives taken unjustly.

Nov 19, 2008 - 4:53 pm 110. Asher:

@Mickey

I don’t really understand your question…Are you suggesting that it is acceptable to practice eugenics through murder so long as the economics work out for the wealthy?

No, no, no. First of all this is not eugenics, which seeks to maximize the top, say, 15 percent, but anti-dysgenics which seeks to minimize the bottom 15 percent (or whatever). Secondly, the people who benefit the most from suppressing the unhindered breeding by the non-contributing underclass are the working poor and the working middleclasses. The rich can always just buy themselves high-rise condos, gated communities and exclusive private schools. The person who benefits most from culling the underclass is the non-college grad who roofs for a living and not the Wall Street broker.

You’re argument sounds a lot like the Margaret Sanger’s arguments…and why most Planned Parenthood abortion mills are in poor Black neighborhoods. I think you’re the one who needs to explain how sanctioned murder of minorities is good for you and your children.

First, it’s not murder. “Murder” is a socially constructed concept that has a rather late arrival in human civilization, so “murder” is just whatever society says it is. Secondly, I am not Margaret Sanger. Sanger held that because the average black person had far less to contribute to society than the average white person, something factually true, that black people, in general, had nothing to contribute to society, a logically faulty inference. Unlike Sanger, I distinguish between blacks who are complete dead-weights on society and blacks who contribute to society, and I also acknowledge that some whites are complete dead-weights on society.

Since 1973, 40 million Americans have been removed from our society forcefully

Actually, it’s almost 54 million.

Declaring the battle “unwinnable” to focus on other issues will not solve the other issues. You can polish the apple, but there’s still a worm in it.

But abortion has cullled the underclass is not a worm, in fact, it is an objective measurable benefit. Life that cannot contibute to the society in which it lives IS cheap, and that is simply a statement of brute fact. Your value is based on what you can do for others.

Want to fix the budget? Awesome, me too…let’s expand the tax base to include another 40 million American wage earners.

But the people who were aborted wouldn’t be wage earners. Large portions would be chronically unemployable, they’re not good as employees in any context, and the rest would be menial wage earners in low-skill service sectors. So, the people you’re talking about would be significant tax-consumers, not net tax-payers.

Want to fix social security? Terrific, me too…let’s have a fertility rate that enables the program to support itself, rather than barely replacing ourselves

This only works if you’re getting the top half of the Bell Curve to reproduce. Boosting the TFR in the bottom half, especially the bottom fifth, of the bell curve, actually makes this worse, not better.

Want to have a strong national defense? I’m on board…let’s have a larger pool of military age Americans to recruit from.

You must not be familiar with the military, because who the military wants to fill its ranks is becoming progressively more selective. Today, large numbers of blacks lack the innate cognitive function necessary to score appropriately on the ASVAB to enter the military, and those that do fill the most low-skill positions.

Health care? Energy? How much innovation was sucked out of an abortionists vacuum cleaner tube and dumped as “medical waste”

Pretty much none, because we’re talking about a population that has a mean IQ in the high 80s.

We have LOTS of laws on the books to regulate behavior…what we in the Pro-Life community are asking for, working for, is a law that explicitly protects every American from conception to natural death from having their lives taken unjustly

There’s a phrase for this: mental masturbation.

Nov 20, 2008 - 8:34 am 111. arthur:

I don’t think the GOP can do any better than it has the last couple years with so much power and the definition of the party given to the far social right/religious part of the party.

Nov 20, 2008 - 12:19 pm 112. Marie Claude:

Now I ask you, do you really want some French, English, German, Chinese bureaucrat dictating what or how our lives should be led? Whether or not we should have a gun or not? How much we can drive our cars? Whether through some international union rules, or fair trade rules,

um, aren’t the porn-series not made in the US ? cuz, you were very innovant in that speciality
…
take a look in your own businesses, you’ll find out who messed, not us, cuz we aren’t allowed to give you a word, you know already all !

Nov 20, 2008 - 3:53 pm 113. Dale E. Linn:

If we are going to Compete, we need consensus on a Platform. I get the feeling that our “Leaders” dont know who we are or what we stand for. We need a Plan. Me need a Message…. and, we need Marketing.

Nov 20, 2008 - 6:56 pm 114. nobozons:

Look at the senate, are there any conservatives there? They passed the bailout bill and will probably pass the bailout of the auto industry. They talk the talk, but can’t walk the walk. Yes, it is easier to be a liberal and buy the votes with the voter’s money. That is not good for the country.

Nov 21, 2008 - 10:19 am 115. joe:

republicans are no longer what conservatives stand for but little different tham dems

Mar 12, 2009 - 6:53 pm

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