104 Comments

1. Trid:

And liberals wonder why so many Conservatives ‘cling to their guns and religion’.

Nov 14, 2009 - 1:23 am 2. Terry:

No offense to Christians, but so little is actually known about the historical figure of Jesus or his views that almost anything said is just pure speculation. Presumably, Jesus was an observant Jew & subscribed to most of the attitudes & opinions of his environment. So, if you really want to know what Jesus thought, you’d be closer to reality if you study the Talmud.

Nov 14, 2009 - 1:53 am 3. Ed Wallis:

Related to this article is a fascinating book, “Why Are Jews Liberals?” by Podhoretz.

Nov 14, 2009 - 2:06 am 4. TomF:

-Also, Jesus is often casted as a rebel. However, he was total submissive to his Father and the law. Just because His submissiveness at times interfered with the rebellion of others doesn’t make him a rebel.
-Jesus is casted as the helper of the oppressed. However, he did nothing to liberate the Jewish people from their Roman conquerers.
-Jesus is seen to give aid to the poor, but he also said that there will always be the poor with us.
Today, Jesus is misunderstood as he was in his own day. He didn’t come solve the economic, political or social problems of his day. He came to provide Spiritual salvation for humanity’s depravity (sinfulness). The real problem being our broken relationship with God that finds its evidence in our broken human relationships.

One asked Jesus to tell his brother to split the inheritance. Jesus changed the subject towards his spiritual need. Jesus was tested on the issue of taxes. Again he turned it around to the spiritual need. Jesus was also confronted with the social concern of the poor by Judas (yes, the one who betrayed Jesus) and Jesus instead emphasized worship. Was he concerned about social issues, yes, but only subordinate to the spiritual needs of the people. He feed the 5000, but only after he gave them hours of spiritual food.
The Roman powers asked him whether he was a king. He answered that his kingdom is not of this world.

Nov 14, 2009 - 2:10 am 5. Marc Malone:

Libs don’t understand free will. It gets in their way.

Nov 14, 2009 - 3:13 am 6. new utopian:

Jesus was, indeed, a capitalist. While you can read the whole gospel at Gospel at http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm#v14, I have copied the last few lines below:

“Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten.
For to everyone who has,
more will be given and he will grow rich;
but from the one who has not,
even what he has will be taken away.
And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.”

Certainly, one interpretation would be that Jesus is saying that those who do not follow the commandments of the Master (God), and therefore do not grow their riches (good graces), will be cast into the darkness outside (hell).

Another interpretation is an economic one: Jesus is saying that those who do not grow their riches (literally, prosper in an economic way through capitalism) should not benefit from the same economic system as those who do reap its benefits and make it grow, and they should be thrown out of the economic system (thrown into the darkness outside). Jesus also said: “Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto Me.” From this, we should all believe that those who absolutely cannot be part of capitalism, because of genuine physical or mental disabilities, should still be helped by those who do prosper from it’s benefits, but through charity, not through socialism.

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:05 am 7. Fantom:

Trid, that is probably why Jesus tells us to buy a sword. He knew that evil/liberals would try to destroy Him and enslave us.

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:38 am 8. Mike Blackadder:

I doubt that Moore holds any real religious conviction, and when he describes Jesus as a socialist the unspoken message is that religious conservatives are hypocrites. As usual Moore doesn’t care about presenting a fair argument, but gets his message across by hand-waving and cherry-picking. Of all the choices available to convince others of his point of view Moore invariably turns to dishonesty, revealing time and again how little respect he has for other people.

I can’t say how Jesus would weigh-in with modern politics. Would Jesus advocate also for man-made systems of humanitarianism or would He invariably distrust group morality? One way or the other, I agree that He might take offense to the insinuation that our politicians and bureaucrats are to be revered as agents of our good will towards others.

But No matter what we like to think about the righteousness of our politics, rest assured that Jesus’ way tended to be much more difficult than what any of us would choose for ourselves.

Nov 14, 2009 - 6:04 am 9. Colin Wilkinson:

Of course Jesus is a Capitalist. He grew up working in the family business and was a skilled Carpenter. He never went on the dole. All the gifts and donations He received were volunteered by his friends and followers. A common mistake among many is to accept the premise that you can use Caesar’s sword to do the Lord’s work.

Nov 14, 2009 - 6:35 am 10. Tim:

I have to prepare a sermon for class – taking time out to read PJM I didn’t expect to have a lesson on exegesis v eisegesis. Well written article, thanks I may use part of it.

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:00 am 11. Claudia Smith:

Jesus spoke more about wealth, prosperity than he did healing all people, so many miracles that the books could not contain them. So, in God shall we trust, our full attention to Love Him and others as ourselves. I love myself and others and i like myself and some others not all. Neither could Jesus Love them all. They rejected him also. So, i do not find this strange at all. The devil is selfish maximus. So, what are his motives again/there were so many….

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:09 am 12. Now and The:

Jesus – what a guy!

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:27 am 13. Dwight:

But the whole article finesses the obvious fact that Jesus was relentlessly anti-materialistic 95% of the time, while our capitalist culture and yes, probably humanity is acquisitive and materialistic 95% of the time. The linking of Jesus with the Protestant Ethic and our awesome military industrial complex is one of the great paradoxes of history.

Jesus generally affects people a little, (and did permit the Vikings to become civilized) while human nature rules A LOT. So it goes.

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:37 am 14. Marian:

The Bible always must be interpreted in light of the WHOLE Bible and, according to scripture itself, with the help of the Holy Spirit. It makes my stomach turn to see politicians pick and choose and pull things out to suit their own spin.

If I recall, the farmer parable illustrated the free gift of God’s grace and salvation for all, which is not a result of works. And poor Ananias the liar? It’s about his heart!

And that’s the main point. It’s about the heart. Compassion, love and care for one another flowing from a heart *voluntarily* yielded to God. We have so many quotes from our founding fathers which state the fact that our republic depends upon a moral populace. If our morality has declined, the answer is not a big government nanny state. Because, after all, government is not some magical,monolithic, just force of sweetness and light; it is PEOPLE.

Big government can never be a solution for problems such as greed and corruption. BIG GOVERNMENT IS JUST THE GREED AND CORRUPTION OF THE POWER-HUNGRY, COMPOUNDED, CODIFIED AND PROTECTED! At least with liberty, there is freedom and possibility of the “market”, if you will, keeping the corruption in check, and freedom of religion for people to turn their hearts to God.

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:39 am 15. ahem:

Actually, it’s impossible to say that Christ is free market or socialist based on scripture; you can find justification for both sides, if you look for it. (I say that as an Orthodox Christian.)

However.

A major difference between marxism and the free market (Marx calls it “capitalism”, but it really only means what people do when left to their own devices; what you and I quaintly call “freedom”) is that Marxism posits communism as an historical inevitability; we can do nothing to prevent it. It’s our fate. (Our doom, rather. Best to give up now; it’s all over.)

God, on the other hand, although he could easily have created us as slaves, created us a free agents. He made us free. Free to reject him, free to choose him, free to rise to greater heights and aspire to greater knowledge and love. Free to create nations, under God, where all men are free to pursue ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’.

That’s how you know that someone who believes in “Liberation Theology” (Marxist Christianity) knows very little of either.

So: marxist or free-market eonomist? You figure it out.

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:53 am 16. ConservativeWanderer:

Another one I’ve heard from various lefties is that since Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple, He must be against capitalism.

Of course, this is easily debunked when you note that He chased the money changers out of the temple. He didn’t object to them doing their business anywhere else, He just felt that the temple wasn’t the appropriate place for that kind of business.

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:56 am 17. BackwardsBoy:

Michael Moore and others of his ilk only display their ignorance of Christianity when the hold up the Bible to make their twisted points about the “virtues” of big government. If anything, Jesus merely tolerated government and politics as a necessary evil. He never failed to point out the hypocrisy of kings and politicians. One wonders what he would have said to radical environmentalists…

Nov 14, 2009 - 8:00 am 18. Clay Marley:

Excellent article. Let me add a few details. Look throughout history at every socialist, communist, Marxist regime, and you will see a rejection of Christianity. Look at every democratic, capitalist, republic with freedom of thought, action, and freedom to pursue happiness, and you will see Judeo-Christian roots.

The Nanny State is desired because the Left does not have a Christian understanding of human nature. They believe that be eliminating bad influences and temptations by rule of law, we can create a state driven utopia. Muslims believe exactly the same thing. Liberals find salvation in the state. Muslims believe the state is god. Both attempt to prevent sin through legalism.

No matter how many laws are created to regulate behavior and “prevent” sin, i.e. hate crime laws, hate speech laws, or laws requiring women to dress in bags, hate, lust and sin still happen. Of all the people in the world, only Christians understand the fallacy of all this. Salvation can never be found in laws.

This is why Muslims and the Left get along so well. They both have identical worldviews. They only differ in the content of these laws. This is why Christians are so often the target of the Left, not Muslims. Christians, with their Biblical worldview, are the great threat to Liberalism.

Nov 14, 2009 - 8:33 am 19. myth buster:

Caesar’s sword should be used to do the Lord’s work, but the work the Lord assigned to Caesar was to do justice and maintain order. To kill the murderers, rapists and others who destroy life and liberty, to beat and bludgeon assailants, to fine thieves and to intervene to protect the innocent. Charity is the work assigned to the individual believer.

Nov 14, 2009 - 8:43 am 20. IOpian:

People like Moore will bash a Christian literalist yet they are even more prone to a literal interpretation than those they ridicule. A parable teaches a life lesson, specifically God’s relationship to Man.

In a parable Jesus might start off ‘There was once a man’ but even a child would know this man is imaginary. Wealth and money usually represent love from God. Something of great value. To apply these parables to this world as political discourses of ‘what would Jesus do ?’ is a display the abject ignorance of someone who had never bothered to read the book for themselves. There knowledge is limited to sitting in a pew a few times letting someone else tell them what is in it.

In fact, the entire mission of Jesus was to come to the Jew first and tell them, ( I paraphrase ) Hey folks look, yeah you have the law down to the letter.. but you have failed to get the point. The meaning is what is between the lines.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:03 am 21. Jr:

I live very near Mr. Moore in Michigan. He has a residence as I understand it on Torch Lake, a x very beautiful and deep inland lake. Property on that lake runs from 3500 to over 5000 a front fott making 100 feet of frontage worth between 3,500,000 and 5,000,000. AS I drive by a local airport I am told often his private jet is parked there, I can’t verify it. I do know that he is an extremely large man and I do know from observation that his table manners are atrocious. Who is he to talk about the excesses of capitalism, let us all talk about the excesses and ego of Micahel Moore. He is a great capitalist who has found a niche business destroying people and killing the USA. It is not about helping peole let us understand it is about Michael Moore himself. he therefore will use any prop available to sel his wares. I know nothing of his faith but like many of us I assume he only cryptically knows the Bible. SOmething did not happen in Congregational and Episcopalian upbringing.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:14 am 22. myth buster:

Oh yeah, about that Temple incident. Jesus’ problem with the moneychangers was that they were committing fraud- finding non-existent blemishes with sacrificial animals and then charging obscene prices for replacements. Jesus became rightfully indignant at that fraud, because fraud is one thing that really angers Him, especially when that fraud involves depriving people of their promised wages, exploits widows and orphans, or interferes with His people’s ability to worship Him freely.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:26 am 23. Delia:

So that is where the government got the idea of printing money out of thin air for their needs and deeds; they were trying to repeat the ‘Loaves and Fishes (Mark 6:30-44)’ miracle!

The Government has a god-complex. Ya think?

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:34 am 24. BC:

Yeah, right — Christ would have loved Wall St. Gawd….(so to speak.)

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:44 am 25. venividivici:

The Old Testament is even more interesting because, according to scripture, God established the framework for a national government in ancient Israel. God could have invented socialism and called for the forced redistribution of wealth. He could have created a state that would meet the needs of all Israel. Instead, the Pentateuch creates no central state and charges village elders with enforcing the Biblical law, which required moral behavior and justice. The Bible did call for the people to give a tenth of all their increase to God; however, God never gave anyone the power to enforce it.

This also highlights the contradiction of those Jewish Leftists who claim Judaism is the inspiration for their Leftism, yet ignore the fact that Orthodox Jews, who most closely resemble the Jews of the Old Testament, lean much more conservative than liberal.

I’ve always like Aristotle’s formulation of human greatness as being “Haughty toward men and humble toward the gods”. I don’t need some bureaucrat determining that I need to dedicate 6.3% of my pre-tax income to retirement savings in Treasury bonds, 2% to a trust fund for future medical expenses, 2.5% to a health insurance trust fund for those ages 18-65, etc., etc., etc. I’ll figure it out on my own, thanks. And if I fail, I fail.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:57 am 26. Liberty60:

Actually, we have no evidence that Jesus ever worked a day in his life; he spent his adult years preaching, and sponging off of other people like Martha and Mary.

Everyone wants to claim Jesus; that He would somehow vote the way I would vote, belong to my political party, and approve of House resolution such and such.

What arrogant nonsense! What hubris bordering on blasphemy!

Christ’s message was to care for and love one another, as brothers; he didn’t support capitalism, nor government control, because both are flawed.
We flatly contradict His message when we put our faith in sytems of governance, mechanisms of economies.

Only selfish fools pretend that a government program, or invisible hand of the marketplace, can substitute for our care and sacrifice to our fellow man.

Nov 14, 2009 - 10:00 am 27. Moogie:

If one does not have a full understanding of trigonometry, then one ought not attempt to decipher trigonometry.

Ditto the Bible and Jesus Christ.

The point of the story about the farmer is this: those who have worshiped Jesus their entire lives are not any more privileged to salvation than those who have come to Him late in life. The story is about salvation, not about capitalism. The primary lesson in this story is that it is Jesus alone who determines who has His salvation (grace). Jesus is letting us know that He will grant His grace upon whomever He wishes.

The creator of the universe is neither a capitalist, free-market proponent, nor a socialist. He simply is. All other devices for economical and governmental systems are man-made.

Jesus’ message was one of grace, through Him and by him. Freedom in Christ has nothing whatsoever to do with the type of freedom we seek as citizens. The prisoner in jail has more freedom, if he has Christ, than the man walking freely upon the land, if he does not have Christ.

Nov 14, 2009 - 10:35 am 28. arthur`:

Jesus was for the poor and powerless, not for the rich and corrupt.

Nov 14, 2009 - 10:37 am 29. SukieTawdry:

Calling Jesus a socialist or maintaining that He would have the state confiscate and redistribute wealth is as silly as asserting that He was a community organizer.

26. Liberty60: Actually, we have no evidence that Jesus ever worked a day in his life; he spent his adult years preaching, and sponging off of other people like Martha and Mary.

Actually, Jesus worked alongside His father in the family’s successful carpentry business. He did not become a preacher until about age 30. He was an itinerant preacher without income, however, and did then depend on the kindness, support and charity of friends and strangers.

Nov 14, 2009 - 10:49 am 30. Dave II:

Liberty60-
Wether you consider it “evidence” or not, Jesus’ “ministry” only consisted of about 3 years of his adult life. What he did for the other 10 to 12+ years is a matter of speculation, but I doubt it was spent “sponging” off friends and relatives. He was a carpenter by trade after all…

You are certainly right though that Jesus’ message was to love God (first) and to love one another. That the United States as a whole, and Christians in particular are THE MOST GIVING people in the world is not an accident.

Unfortunately, when you compare the generosity of liberals to conservative Christians, the percentage of who gives the most out of their PERSONAL wealth is NO CONTEST. Conservatives give more by a WIDE margin.

Liberals would much rather see the STATE be the CHARITY IN CHARGE so higher taxes and more government programs are the answer to every societal malady.

Again…it’s no accident that Obama’s charitable giving was so miniscule. I have no doubt Michael Moore’s would fall right in line with that percentage also…though I’m sure his tax bill he pays soothes his “conscience”…

Yeah…THAT’S THE TICKET! FORCED CHARITABLE GOVERNMENT GIVING!!!

….rrrrright…….

Nov 14, 2009 - 10:54 am 31. Delia:

30. Dave II,

The forced ‘charity’ created by the tax-cheats themselves no less.

Not to mention Liberals won’t allow for school vouchers to help inner-city and impoverished kids improve their chances of rising above their lot in life but have no compunction about keeping them on the welfare dole as a ‘charity’ recipient and perpetual Dem-Vote.

Nov 14, 2009 - 11:20 am 32. Samson:

micheal moore is nothing more then a hypocrite …nothing more needs to be said about him.

Nov 14, 2009 - 11:24 am 33. Dean:

24 BC,

Jesus would have understood Wall Street as a market where some merchants are honest and some are not.

Nov 14, 2009 - 11:25 am 34. ConservativeWanderer:

arthur` @ 28:

Jesus was for the poor and powerless, not for the rich and corrupt.

In that case, Jesus must by definition be Republican, because we know that the rich (the Kennedy clan, George Soros, Chris Dodd, et al) and the corrupt (Sen. Dodd, William Jefferson–the guy with the cash in his freezer, not the former President with “Clinton” tacked onto the end of his name, Charlie Rangel, all of the Obama Administration folks who can’t seem to pay the right amount of taxes at the appropriate time, et al) are Democrats.

Thanks for pointing that out to us, arthur`.

Nov 14, 2009 - 11:54 am 35. aclay1:

Thank you for this piece, especially the references. This stops a whole line of argument cold.

Nov 14, 2009 - 12:06 pm 36. myth buster:

Yes, Jesus did embrace the poor and the downtrodden, but not at the expense of the rich. Jesus doesn’t hate rich people, although He does hate what money does to a lot of rich people; it becomes their idol. When Jesus told the merchant to sell everything he had and give it to the poor, it was because money was in the man’s way of worshiping God. Even so, the same grace is available to the greedy as is available to prostitutes or any other sinner. No where in the Bible is material prosperity condemned, but everywhere it is cautioned- never forget that wealth is a blessing to be used wisely, not squandered on vanity or hoarded in greed, lest what should be a blessing become a curse that entraps your soul.

Nov 14, 2009 - 12:07 pm 37. aclay1:

Romans 13 is pretty creepy, however. Thank God our founding fathers didn’t take it to heart.

Nov 14, 2009 - 12:11 pm 38. Poor Citizen:

Is it true that the Lord really helps those that help themselves?

I usually stick to..cleanliness is the next best thing to holiness…

Im not really sure if Christ was really a capitalist or not, but I know some folks on runnig those banks on wall street that could have used him ..alot…last year.

Nov 14, 2009 - 12:53 pm 39. baal:

Neither socialism nor capitalism existed at the time of christ-socialism or capitalism as per marx’s approximations of them that is.
Moore is scum who would sell his mom for a nickel, just like all the other PT Barnums of the left. That doesn’t obviate the sins of his equivalents on the right, its just that they aren’t railing against capitalism from atop a pile of money.

Nov 14, 2009 - 12:56 pm 40. Patrick:

Great article. I would also highly recommend the recently published book, Money, Greed, and God: Why Capitalism Is the Solution and Not the Problem.

BTW: I see a lot of comments that confuse Capitalist with greedy, rich, Caucasian, Protestant Wall Street bankers. That’s like saying all liberals are hypocritical, supercilious, ego-maniacal, ignorant greedy lying politicians and Hollywood elitists. Some are, but not all.

Seriously, the lady in So. America with a micro-loan for her one-person seamstress shop is a Capitalist. So is the guy in downtown L.A. who rents a small shop to install stereo equipment. They are all Capitalists.

Capitalism is an economic system about freedom: the freedom from government coercion and intervention in my private affairs. If I want to buy or sell something that’s my business. That’s freedom. That’s Capitalism. Jesus was against greed and trusting money to save us, whether you are a Capitalist or not. Everyone has the problem of greed: Capitalist, Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Monarchist… everyone.

Nov 14, 2009 - 1:21 pm 41. Jeffrey:

Adam: Nice work; another big lefty lie bites the dust. The other thing about Jesus is that he doesn’t like competition. Jesus isn’t about to share The Fathers Glory with big government as is evidenced by the thrashing He is giving big government right now around the world and we ‘ain’t seen nuthin yet’. Yes the arrogant leaders of men are trying to put a good face on their house of cards but please notice that they’re doing it with lies cheating and thievery, all a giant recipe for disaster. He said ‘He would not strive with mankind forever’ indicating and end of the futility He has subjected us to. Meaning that all the lies, the sin and the evil will now be exposed and destroyed making way for the truth.

#2
Read the bible there is more in it about Jesus than we know about Barack Obama, by far.

The left likes to quote the bible when it might serve their purposes but do not be deceived about the left they have no use for God like they really have no use for nature or the Earth they just use it as a big excuse for their satanic agenda. Where do the left live? Big cities, where they are so far from nature that they lose all touch with God and His creation. They can’t see the stars, they can’t hear the sounds of nature therefore they never think of it. Instead they feed off of mans interpretation of man and of nature and of God Himself rather than direct communication. Why are cities filled with lefties and country folk are todays conservatives as a rule with only a few exceptions? With no view of Gods Glory and only a view of the worst of humanity how could it be otherwise?

Nov 14, 2009 - 2:37 pm 42. PAthena:

Michael Moore is a tyrant-worshipper and would-be tyrant himself. He is not a liberal at all – John Stuart Mill would shudder at him. His phony references to Jesus really mean support for Fidel Castro’s tyrannical state of Cuba, with mass murder, imprisonment for ideas, torture, and execution. See Vallodare’s book about this.

Nov 14, 2009 - 3:07 pm 43. Midge:

“But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.” Matthew 6:33. It is not that money is the root of all evil, but that evil is found in the heart of man. God is trying to save us from ourselves. I fear Covetousness more than I do greet. Let me define first covetousness: wrongly desires of wealth or posessions. When one becomes jelous of others because they have more than one can obtain, than this is wrong and right down dangerous. Why you might ask? The person who is jealous of what his neighbor has is capable of murder in order to steal the neighbors wealth. I try not to envy people who have more than I do, rather I try to become the best person I can be, so I can learn to compete in a free market of ideas and material things. I am thankful for capitalism, which allows me to find the very best job that meets my skills. If I want to receive a better paying job, then it is my responsibility (not anyone else)to upgrade my skills so I can compete better. Do you get the picture? What are you seeking? God does not approve anymore of the poor than He does of the rich. It is how you use your gifts and talents that He is concern more about.

Nov 14, 2009 - 3:21 pm 44. biblio44:

“And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as
well.” Matthew 5:40

Yep. Sure sounds like Gordon Gekko to me.

Nov 14, 2009 - 3:30 pm 45. Kenny Burchard:

A pastor writes more about this issue in this blog titled “Did Jesus Teach Socialism?” Check it out here:

http://kburchard.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/did-jesus-teach-socialism/

A good deal is communicated about the implications of a government using the “Jesus Taught Socialism” argument to force an agenda on religious people.

Enjoy –
KB

Nov 14, 2009 - 4:07 pm 46. Sara:

Jesus was quite clear in the difference between Ceasar and what was the rest of life. Ceasar was a necessary evil.

Throughout the ages, tax collectors have been seen as theives of people’s earnings, not heros. In the real, unrevised story of Robinhood, he took from the King’s tax collectors and gave the money back to the people. That is why he was a hero. Socialists have turned all this up-side-down in an effort to justify a new and improved form of theft and slavery. Federal wealth redistribution (of which only a tiny portion makes it to the poor) is plain and simple theft. It’s theft when the banksters and CEO’s do it for their own enrichment, too.

Nov 14, 2009 - 4:11 pm 47. myth buster:

2. The Talmud contains a great deal of heresy. Doubtless the prophets would condemn the great amount of false teaching contained within it.

37. Romans 13 says it is a sin to rebel against lawful authority. Authority becomes illegitimate when the one wielding it claims powers he does not lawfully possess, or attempts to compel people to sin.

Nov 14, 2009 - 4:14 pm 48. Odysseus:

“Thus, the liberal’s Jesus is not Holy God who came down to save man, but a nice guy who said some good things in hopes that we would realize our need for a powerful state to give us national health care.”

In other words, Barack Obama.

Nov 14, 2009 - 4:46 pm 49. Ilpalazzo:

Wow! I didn’t know there were so many Prophets and reincarnated Gods on Earth! Flog anyone who hypothesizes about anything Jesus would say or do in today’s times. Abolish the ‘What Would Jesus Do’ slogan. You may read and follow Jesus’ teachings in the Bible, but when you hypothesize his position on a contemporary issue, you’re insinuating that you know how he’ll respond or act now. And by doing that, you’re saying you know how God would act or respond, seeing as how Jesus was God as a man. So liberals, conservatives, etc, cut out bringing your hypothetical Jesus to the argument. This is man’s faults and problems at work and it’s up to us to put our heads together and work it out. The last thing we need is to start using religion in political-social issues, or we’ll be as bad as Muslim extremists. Besides, wha happened to the whole ’separation of church and state’ ranting I had to hear for the last 8 years?

Nov 14, 2009 - 4:52 pm 50. Will:

Believe me, God is NOT on Moore’s side,as he will find out.

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:07 pm 51. Little John:

“Aman’s admiration for absolute government is proporionate to the contempt he feels for those around him.” – De Tocqueville

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:16 pm 52. Marc Malone:

The Devil can quote Scripture, too.

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:21 pm 53. ConservativeWanderer:

Poor Citizen @ 38:

Is it true that the Lord really helps those that help themselves?

Find me that verse in Scripture and give me book, chapter, and verse (if you even know what those are), and I’ll comment on it.

Until then, get thee behind me.

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:38 pm 54. Dwight:

So is he saying that if Jesus came back today it would be as the manager of a hedge-fund?

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:46 pm 55. Thomas:

Erm… the first story isn’t capitalism. Most liberals would be quite happy if everyone got the same wage regardless of their skill or workload. Especially communisty ones.

Nov 14, 2009 - 5:52 pm 56. Clayton E. Cramer:

Jesus certainly called us to care for the poor and the oppressed. But what does more to actually alleviate poverty and oppression? Free market capitalism, or socialism? It’s pretty clear that for all socialism’s good intentions, capitalism has done far more to end want and suffering. That the results of capitalism are quite unequal is quite true–but would you rather be a poor person in a capitalism society, or one of the equal masses in a socialist society? (And no, none of the supposed “socialist” nations of Europe is socialist; they are mixtures of welfare state capitalism and limited government ownership of some sectors of the economy.

Nov 14, 2009 - 6:07 pm 57. Tom in TN:

The “give a man a fish/ teach a man to fish” lesson pretty much proves Jesus was no leftist.

Nov 14, 2009 - 6:31 pm 58. The Apologist:

#13 Now and Then – LOL.

Adam, I’d be interested in your take on this question: How does Romans 13: 1-6 apply to the American Revolution? This is a sincere question. I realize it seems loaded as I’ve laid it out here, but I’m genuinely curious what you think. Is revolution ever given explicit or implicit support in Scripture? I can’t recall seeing anything like that, but I thought you might have.

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:05 pm 59. Reece:

This article is an excellent example as to why we now seperate Church and State…and by having done so, we became the most powerful nation in the world. Jesus has nothing to do with Capitalism and it is my opinion that anyone using Religion to try and persuade political ideologies is not to be trusted…since that individual is praying on our since of faith as opposed to having a strong factual argument to win their case. A person who uses these tactics is trying to force their opinion on you similar to the forcing of religious beliefs as in the past. People will believe what they want and hard facts are stronger than any opinions. Having said that, was Jesus a capitalist?…I don’t care…I believe he died on the cross for our sins and that is what’s important to me

Nov 14, 2009 - 7:08 pm 60. Mark:

Superb article, Adam. Thank you

Nov 14, 2009 - 8:25 pm 61. AST:

I can’t agree that Jesus was a capitalist, but he definitely wasn’t a socialist. His kingdom is not of this world. He sought to change the world one soul at a time, not by overthrowing the government. At least, not until he returns.

He taught that we shouldn’t lay up treasures on earth, but in heaven, that we should trust in God, not our possessions or worldly influence. But I think that he would oppose government welfare schemes because the givers don’t have to have charity in their hearts and the receivers have no reason to have gratitude, because the “gift” is their legal right, enforceable in court. And in case you don’t remember what he had to say about going to court, it was “Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.”

Although his followers entered into a covenant turning all their property to the church, it was a free offering, not forced. Although Ananias and his wife were struck dead when they gave part of their property and held the rest back, this was a consequence of attempting to lie to God, not for the withholding itself.

Greed is still a sin, as is selfishness. But using the government to assist the poor reminds me a lot of the hypocrites Jesus criticized for ‘doing their alms’ in public, making a show of how much they were donating.

As for Michael Moore, it he really wanted to serve Jesus, he would be prepared to sell all that he has and give it to the poor. Of course, if he did so in the right spirit, we’d probably never hear about it, at least not from him.

Nov 14, 2009 - 8:29 pm 62. Grace O'Malley:

Ilpalazzo @49, the saying What Would Jesus Do? is not a recent phenomenon. It is instead from a Preacher named Rev. Charles M. Sheldon from the Central Congregational Church Topeka Kansas, who published a book called “In his Steps” in 1896 who asked his congregation as well as the readers of the book to pledge themselves for a year to honestly and earnestly not to do anything without first asking themselves What Would Jesus do? The book sold some 30 million copies.
Ah, but the rest of the story is what is actually pertinent here. The book was intended as an adjunct to the social gospel movement, which was all about social action and intended to establish a Kingdom of God on earth, being more concerned about fitting a man properly for the needed work on earth then on getting that same man to heaven. The social gospel movement led to what was called the purity reform, which meant fighting prostitution, alcoholism etc… prohibition was a direct outgrowth of this. To these ends a way to stop social degeneracy in the beginning was fervently sought and thus was born liberal protestants support for eugenics. In fact Rev. Oscar Carleton McCulloch, a Congregationalist leader from Indiana helped get the first mandatory sterilization laws passed, used primarily in the beginning against a people who called themselves the Ishmaelites.
Progressives in the church have always been eager to use their doctrinally challenged Christianity as a club against conservative Christians.
Progressive Christianity was once called Christian socialism, it became Progressive with Teddy Roosevelt, and more so with Woodrow Wilson. FDR was little different. The political roots of secular progressives, by and large, can be found in the reaction against Wilson high handed tactics in the service of his version of Progressivism. It is there where you will see the splitting of socialists and communists into two different camps. Socialists sided with Wilson, communists did not. Most socialists anyway, including Norman Thomas, grandfather of Evan Thomas editor for Newsweek. The godless communists however, fought Wilson. The Progressive Church linked hands with Teddy, Wilson, FDR, and Truman. Then then did likewise with Eisenhower, funny that. Despite deep misgivings over Kennedy the younger generation Progressive Christians embraced him. After Kennedy the “new left” comes into power deeply scolding the old left for it’s racism, war mongering etc… and the new generation of Progressive Christians fall right in beside them.
All the sins of the old Progressives somehow get transferred to the Conservatives, I suppose so the Progressives can overlook the sins of Wilson and FDR against blacks, women, the Japanese Americans etc…
And now we have that new generation of religious and secular progressives teeming up, but they have left doctrinally sound Christianity even further behind then their ancestors. Jim Wallis, one of the lefts biggest religious progressives has passionately defended Obama’s black liberation theology church and Obama attendance there for all those years.
Separation of church and state is only for the Conservatives, the Progressives have stepped over the line for over a hundred years.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:39 pm 63. myth buster:

58. I’ll answer that question: the American Revolution was legitimized because the Magna Carta designated that the powers of the King and Parliament were not absolute. Therefore, when the King violated his own laws, the colonists were well within their rights to defend themselves. Also note that England started the war with an illegal raid on the Massachusetts Militia’s armory. If that is insufficient, then I must resort to the prima facie evidence based on the Revolution’s success- except that the Lord was on our side, there was no way that a ragtag army of farmers and traders could defeat the mighty British Army.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:41 pm 64. wickerbasket:

I don’t know if you can press that argument too much since there’s another parable where Jesus says if someone is a slave and has worked all day in the fields, when he comes in he first has to serve the master before he is allowed to eat. It’s hard to say that Jesus would be that mean. It’s just making a theological point.

I think the better example is in Luke 12 when a man says tell my brother to divide the inheritance. Jesus then turns and replies Man, who made me a judge over you.

Nov 14, 2009 - 9:56 pm 65. ReNae:

Jesus came to redeem us by making it possible for us to repent. He knows we cannot be perfect in this life. He lived a perfect example so that we can know what perfection is. We cannot follow his example unless we are free to choose it. In that sense any system that doesn’t allow personal freedom cannot be Christian.

Nov 14, 2009 - 10:06 pm 66. Mike:

Bible= fiction. Check the facts. There is no evidence of Jesus ever existing besides from people in his clique. What stops me from writing a memoir on how to be invincible? Proof. My friends could write about how I was invisible this and that, but when it came to the outer world; no one would believe me. Why is it that so many people take events from 2000 years ago as literal and undeniable fact? Did you not learn critical thinking skills as a child? Have you been brainwashed?

Nov 14, 2009 - 11:09 pm 67. Jake in Louisiana:

I am not a biblical scholar, but I know of three instances in the New Testament when Jesus was asked to address the problem of scarcity: the wedding feast at Cana where he turned water into wine; the problem of the hungry man and the fish where he urged that the man be taught to catch fish rather than merely fed one already caught; and the Sermon on the Mount, where he took the forty loaves and fishes and grew them to feed the multitudes. There may be other examples–I can’t remember any–but if one views these three from the perspective of an economist you will see the following: in the wedding feast at Cana he took the capital assets of water and wine and combined them to make new wine; in the case of the man and the fish he advised applying the capital asset of an education rather than the consumable asset of a fish to solve the problem; and in the case of the Sermon on the Mount he again took the capital assets of the loaves and fishes and grew them to feed the multitude. In every instance I know of when Jesus was asked to address the problem of scarcity he either used or urged a capital growth strategy as a solution to the problem. Grow your assets! That is the message of Jesus of Nazareth. He was the ultimate capitalist!

Nov 14, 2009 - 11:43 pm 68. John Lodge:

Prove that the Bible is fiction, Mikey. This is another fundamentalist atheist canard that succumbs to the arrogance of its own weight.

Nov 15, 2009 - 12:01 am 69. Delia:

“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” Chinese Proverb -Credited to Lao Tzu

Nov 15, 2009 - 12:26 am 70. truepeers:

#66 There is no evidence of Jesus ever existing besides from people in his clique.

-and so you think this clique just devoted their lives to promoting a fiction, living it as intensely as if they really believed in the death and resurrection? Such a bother, devoting your life to what you know is a fiction; and for what? all that work in the hope of gaining influence over some fools?

If you believe that, seems you’re the one in a fairy tale… Seems to me the only possible explanation for the historical fact of Christian religion’s birth and expansion is its foundation in a profound sense of guilt experienced by real people who witnessed a real crime/scapegoating. Jesus lived and was crucified: it seems to me just that much is what reason demands we recognize. What else you may want, or not, to believe is the question of faith.

Nov 15, 2009 - 12:58 am 71. Lavaux:

Great article, well-reasoned and well-written. Kudos to Mr. Graham and Pajamas Media.

On the question of whether Jesus was a capitalist or Marxist, I’d say neither. Instead, Jesus understood that the spirit is everything and the flesh counts for nothing, which is why his ministry focused on spreading the good news of the spiritual gifts he incarnated:

“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6 v. 51.

Jesus taught us to put our faith in God, worshiping and serving him only, rather than putting our faith in material wealth or social status. The capitalist is free to put his faith in whatever he likes until the margin call. In contrast, the Marxist must either put his faith in the state or suffer persecution. Worse, the Marxist must also put his faith in material wealth and social status since these are of transcendent value, that is, every man values these things by Nature’s design (AKA “evolution”), which he cannot really transcend. So when a man tries to transcend Nature to pursue transcendental goods (e.g. Truth, Good, Beauty, knowledge of God, eternal life), he falls prey to a “false consciousness” and requires “re-education”.

In view of the foregoing, Jesus’ teachings were closer to capitalism than Marxism in that the capitalist is free to pursue transcendental goods and follow Christ whereas the Marxist is not. But the capitalist who puts his faith in material wealth and social status, worshiping and serving them only, is going to have a rough margin call. (See e.g. Luke 16 vs. 19-31). And to those knuckleheads who pervert the Gospel to serve their own political ends or peccadilloes, I refer you to Luke 17 vs. 1-3 and 1 Timothy 6 vs. 3-10.

Nov 15, 2009 - 12:59 am 72. truepeers:

My above should read: “Seems to me the only possible explanation for the historical fact of Christian religion’s birth and expansion is its foundation in a profound sense of guilt, and a newly discovered revelation, experienced by real people who witnessed a real crime/scapegoating. The guilt must have been the product of a historically unprecedented discovery into the nature of our relationship to our victims.

Nov 15, 2009 - 1:05 am 73. twobyfour:

@ 666. Mike

Funny, you use logical fallacies and chastise people for a lack of critical thinking.

Nov 15, 2009 - 2:20 am 74. Andrew:

I fully agree that the Left has completely abused and misused the one or two scriptures they’ve read to support some terrible political philosophy; what I don’t understand is why the Right consistently chooses to rebut this abuse of scripture with further distortion and misuse.

When a parable about the beautiful unfairness of grace in the Kingdom of Heaven becomes fodder to support your political disposition, it’s probably time to question whether your politics are an aspect of your faith or if your faith is merely a buttress to your politics.

Genesis gives us the best scriptural account of one of God’s people working in a foreign government, so it may be good to consider the story of Joseph, whom God raised to power in Egypt in order to establish a program of (government-run) wealth redistribution that saved Egypt and, ultimately, the family from whom God’s people (and son) would descend.

And while we’re in the Torah, it may also be good to ponder the numerous instances (Exodus 23, Leviticus 19, and Deuteronomy 24, to name just a few) in which the people of God are commanded to leave portions of their incomes each year for the poor and the foreigner. These are laws requiring God’s people to take what is rightfully theirs and leave it for the people who neither sowed nor reaped.

I’m not at all saying God is in favor of socialism (he’s not), but if we’re going to try to squeeze God’s economic laws into modern political concepts, they sure don’t look much like capitalism to me.

Nov 15, 2009 - 2:35 am 75. Anonymous:

#66 Mike asked: “Why is it that so many people take events from 2000 years ago as literal and undeniable fact? Did you not learn critical thinking skills as a child? Have you been brainwashed?”

I agree with your skepticism about the “literalness” but the power and portability of the idea speaks for itself.

Nov 15, 2009 - 4:20 am 76. Dwight:

I may have posted this accidentally anonymously:

Mike #66 wrote: Why is it that so many people take events from 2000 years ago as literal and undeniable fact? Did you not learn critical thinking skills as a child? Have you been brainwashed?

While I tend to agree with you about the literalness piece, the power and portabilty of the idea speaks for itself, but then, gulp, so does Islam. But our bombs are a lot more powerful than their bombs. Evidently, God is love…and a lot of firepower.

Nov 15, 2009 - 4:28 am 77. Hal McCombs:

Wait a minute.

Jesus said “Teach a man to fish and he will exploit the earth”. But keep on giving a man someone else’s fishes and you feed him right up to the voting booth.

Right?

Nov 15, 2009 - 5:10 am 78. Brad:

Scottish economist/theologian David Cowan has a great book on the subject on the monetary teachings of Jesus Christ. If this interests you at all, you should check it out. http://www.amazon.com/Economic-Parables-Monetary-Teachings-Christ/dp/1932805729/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258290736&sr=8-1

Nov 15, 2009 - 5:14 am 79. Poor Citizen:

No. 53 con-wanderer,

It was not a quote, it was a question (there is a difference) and it was the response to the article.s title… God as a Capitalist. If they do not want the comment, then do not write the article. Its that simple. There, just for you..so you can even go sideways on me, I’m a Jewish Monk living at a Baptist mission in the Vatican.

Nov 15, 2009 - 5:30 am 80. Marc Malone:

#66 Mike – What nonsense! What do you consider to be proof. Is not the Bible an ancient record itself? Not sufficient! Not Sufficient! Gotta have corroborating evidence! Seriously? In a primitive society, you expect other records? We’re lucky to have this one.

Yes, the Egyptians did have records, but they were known to engage in revisionist history by deleting certain records. And the Great Library was burned.

The Indians have a record, Saint Issa (Iesus).

Regardless, this is a specious charge. “Prove it!” The Bible IS the proof, dummy!

#74 Andrew – You miss the fact I mentioned in my earlier post. We have free will. We do not have to give to the poor. The punishment in not doing so is to be greater in riches, but poorer in spirit. To give is to become truly wealthy. It is good for one’s spirit. Nothing enriches one’s soul so much as caring for other living beings.

Love is its own reward. When you give, you get more than you give.

(Wow. Those last two sentences just came out on their own. Good stuff. I think I’ll start writing for Hallmark.)

Nov 15, 2009 - 6:05 am 81. Brian:

Jesus was not a capitalist, nor a socialist, communist, or marxist. Jesus was not a capitalist when he asked the disciples and the rich young ruler to give everything up and follow him (not for the purpose of redistribution). That doesn’t follow the pattern of any system. I think it’s insane to try and put Jesus into the mold of any political ideology. If you’re a true Christian, you must believe that He fits in a theocratic Kingdom where He is sovereign, not some finite economic system.

Nov 15, 2009 - 6:11 am 82. clubcar:

It’s not a story on capitalism… it’s a story on god’s grace. He pays the same if you convert early in life and work hard for him, or convert 1 month before you die, the reward is the same.

I dislike when Liberals take God and Christ and try to push forward their economic/poliical view. It’s unseemly when Conservatives (libertarians, or communists) do so…

Nov 15, 2009 - 6:14 am 83. Dwight:

Where did Jesus say, “Teach a man to fish…etc.”?
I don’t recall that line in the NT. Maybe some other parable or remark got extrapolated.

Nov 15, 2009 - 6:19 am 84. Tim Wipf:

I find no evidence of God advocating large human institutions of any kind – civil or religious. Institutions are not intrinsically good or evil, but the people within them, like all mankind, are prone to sin. God explicitly told the Israelites what a king would subject them to and all that was prophesied came to pass. The people thought a king would bring peace and security and instead brought them subjugation and corruption at all levels.
Most human institutions soon redirect resources to the survival of the institution at the expense of its original mission, thus all need a periodic, often forced, refocus usually initiated by a threat of some kind. Most never refocus, they compromise their convictions. As evidence look at all the educational institutions that were once beacons of the Christian faith. All civil governments have over time degenerated to tyranny and oblivion. Socialist/communist governments have slaughtered millions in the name of progress. Evidence suggests that limited, non-intrusive governments have provided the most freedom and opportunity for the greatest number of people.

Nov 15, 2009 - 6:36 am 85. Anonymous:

Actually I think author or this post made a very good point that Christ didn’t direct him comments to government or economics. Christ was about the idividual. And him teling those that follow him to go out and force other people to help others by using the government. Instead he challenged each one invidually and on their own to share what they had with other who did not. When Christ turned water into wine, or fed two multitudes, he did them himself, not go to Pilot and Harod and tell them to send an army into all the surrounding villages and force these people to give bread and fish or hand over their wine. Infact the little boy whose food he used the little boy gave his lunch not because he was required to by law but he gave it freely.

Salvation and the life time work of Santification is aobut the INDIVIDUAL

Nov 15, 2009 - 7:24 am 86. whyamInotsurprised?:

# 2Terry & #66 Mike:

O’ wise Biblical scholars, you are not even aware of the extent of historical, scientific, archeological, anthropoligical, lingual, facts, evidences that have been found over time to prove and support the writing of the Bible in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew, as well as the existence of the persona of Jesus of Nazareth. Everything found supports the validity, the verasity of the Bible and existence of Jesus. Nothing has been discovered to disprove anything.

Ignorance is your game. Why do you urge others to “search the facts?” Why not just provide them and end this silly game once and for all, if you even have such evidence? Well??

You joke at Believers for their “faith” and yet you know nothing about good ‘ol Barry and yet your faith in him remains unshaken … well, maybe. Yes, he will solve all the world’s problems by bowing and apologizing and being a good “Christian” and turning the other cheek, just so long as his Muslim brothers are left alone with their evil terrorist plottings.

Nov 15, 2009 - 8:13 am 87. Chris Manion:

When the rich young man asked Christ about salvation, Christ recited to him the last six (seven for Catholics) Commandments.

The rich young man said, “I have followed all these since my youth.” That is, he had respected his family, other peoples’ families, his own body and other peoples’ bodies, his goods, and other peoples’ goods, and the truth.

Christ “looked at him and loved him.” Is this how the Left views peole with money nowadays, in whatever political or economic system they live?

The Left thrives on envy. The Rest thrive on love.

Nov 15, 2009 - 8:37 am 88. Jettboy:

Jesus was a right-leaning independent religious preacher. He said the Pharisees were correct, but they overburdened with extra laws, didn’t follow their own rules, and were without charity. He wasn’t a communist, capitalist, or socialist. On the other hand, his view of government was more libertarian; it exists because it has to, but individuals are more important than the state. He mostly ignored Rome even when faced with its power, instead focusing on individual sins. He was anti-militaristic pro-Israel.

Nov 15, 2009 - 8:51 am 89. BC:

There really isn’t any serious question about Christ existing: it may seem like a long time ago, but that was not a primitive time in history — Rome was near its zenith and the arts and sciences were at a point that medieval Europe wasn’t able to reach until about 1400 years or so later. This was way, WAY too late in human history for completely mythical people to be created, even without all the scattered records.

Now as far what Christ actually thought of capitalism…well–do you know why so many Jews are accountants? Apparently Christ was not happy at all with the early forms of capitalistic finance, which apparently regularly involved usury, so much so that it became somewhat of a big no-no years later for any Christian to engage in money lending, especially with interest. A loophole of sorts was seen by the Medieval Christians: use Jews to do the money handling for them instead. Now on the Jewish side of things, there was an ancient tradition of them not charging interest for loans to other Jews, but when Christians stopped being a Jewish cult and became a separate, major non-Jewish religion, the interest-ban no longer applied. Hence there was a sort of a forced marriage of convenience and an ancient enough cliche/stereotype was born.

Nov 15, 2009 - 12:50 pm 90. Poor Citizen:

Wow, I just did some checking with my local Christian Church and according to them, we could all be wrong.

Jesus was a Capricorn.

Are they right?

Nov 15, 2009 - 2:02 pm 91. Cromert:

I like P J O’Rourke’s take:

“And then there is the Tenth Commandment. ‘Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor’s.’ The Ten Commandments are God’s basic rules about how we should live — a brief list of sacred obligations and solemn moral precepts.
The first nine Commandments concern theological principles and social law. But then, right at the end, is ‘Don’t envy your buddy’s cow.’ How did that make the top ten? What’s it doing there? Why would God, with just ten things to tell Moses, choose as one of those things jealousy about the starter mansion with in-ground pool next door?

Yet think how important the Tenth Commandment is to a community, to a nation, indeed to a presidential election. If you want a mule, if you want a pot roast, if you want a cleaning lady, don’t be a jerk and whine about what the people across the street have — go get your own.
The Tenth Commandment sends a message to all the jerks who want redistribution of wealth, higher taxes, more government programs, more government regulation, more government, less free enterprise, and less freedom. And the message is clear and concise: Go to hell.”

* “An Alternative Inaugural Speech” (18 January 2005)

Nov 15, 2009 - 3:38 pm 92. Delia:

91. Cromert, and then you have this irony:

Study: Same hormone evokes both love and envy

Love thy neighbor vs. envy thy neighbor.

That green-eyed monster is a sneaky devil!

Nov 15, 2009 - 7:08 pm 93. Roger Zimmmerman:

As others have noted, applying modern political labels (never mind theories) to a man that (may have) lived 2000 years ago is a fools errand. The only relevant issue is: what does modern Christianity say about the appropriate social arrangement for humans? And on this, I’m afraid the conservatives are rolling a very large stone up a steep hill. It is clear that the essential tenet of Christian theology today is the Sermon on the Mount – which preaches abject, consistent altruism as the proper morality. Man is to live for his brothers, and not for this life, but for the one beyond.

Capitalism, in contrast, is the social system that is based on the morality of self-interest. It upholds the ideal that each individual is an end in himself, and that none should sacrifice their own lives and values for others. It bases this morality on worldly reason (as opposed to the mysticism of religion, and of Christianity in particular). Indeed, it is because man survives and thrives using his rational faculty that each person must be left alone to exercise his own judgment about how to live his life and what values to pursue.

Conservatives must decide – reason, self-interest and capitalism … or the Sermon on the Mount. Both cannot exist simultaneously in the same person, or in the same culture.

Nov 16, 2009 - 5:53 am 94. Ricky:

The old testament that you claim to love so much commanded massive re-distribution of wealth in Leviticus 25. The New Testament Christians knew that Jesus was the Jubilee, and thus practiced re-distribution in Acts 2, and Paul encouraged it in 2 Corinthians 8.

You commit the exact sins you accuse Mr. Moore of in a much more egregious way. Shame on you.

Nov 16, 2009 - 6:24 am 95. Phil:

In Ecclessiastes it says “IT IS GOOD FOR MAN TO EAT DRINK AND ENJOY THE FRUITS OF HIS LABOR”
Many people don’t recognize that in order to have fruit, you first must labor.
Generations of our politicians and social services have taught to many people to hold out thier hand and expect the fruits of another’s labor be given to them.

Nov 16, 2009 - 6:42 am 96. RJ:

According to your form of exegesis, Jesus also advocates stealing crops from other farmers (Matthew 25:26), deliberately faulty book keeping (Luke 16:6), and torture (Matthew 18:34).

Nov 16, 2009 - 7:10 am 97. Dwight:

Roger Z wrote

Capitalism, in contrast, is the social system that is based on the morality of self-interest. It upholds the ideal that each individual is an end in himself, and that none should sacrifice their own lives and values for others. It bases this morality on worldly reason (as opposed to the mysticism of religion, and of Christianity in particular). Indeed, it is because man survives and thrives using his rational faculty that each person must be left alone to exercise his own judgment about how to live his life and what values to pursue.

Conservatives must decide – reason, self-interest and capitalism … or the Sermon on the Mount. Both cannot exist simultaneously in the same person, or in the same culture.”
————-

While I essentially agree with your analysis, history tells us that “Christians” have been resolving this conflict for the better part of two thousand years, pretty much by down playing the sermon on the mount piece. It’s part of the power, magic, voodoo, whatever of the paradox of Christianity. Dostoyevsky’s Grand Inquisitor tells Jesus to go back to heaven. “What you asked people is to hard to do.” (And we are getting along just fine without you, thank you.)

Nov 16, 2009 - 11:15 am 98. myth buster:

93. If you believe in liberty, you must believe in both freedom of speech and the right of a man to do as he pleases with his property and his time, including give it away for any cause he deems worthy, even to the point of sacrificing his own life to help someone he cares about. This is the balance that you, lacking faith by your own admission, cannot comprehend.

Nov 16, 2009 - 12:23 pm 99. jhalstead:

As I see it, Jesus’ ministry on earth was to purchase a bride for Himself. The price was His life paid to the Father to whom was owed the debt we could not pay. He did not come to the righteous but the sinners; not to the healthy but the sick; not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. The miracles performed by Him were declarations of His power and authority, so that those who saw may know that He had the power to forgive sins, that He could lay down His own life and take it up again. The Creator of all things came to shine His light into the darkness and the darkness HAS NOT overcome it. All authority is given by Him and there is no authority that is not from God.

I say all this to say that both ends of the political spectrum are bathed in sin at the extremes. Those that want all of everything to be equal in ALL things (especially monetary) by the force of the Goverment have missed that God has desired cheerful and willful giving. For the love of the brothers (and sisters) the Church at Jerusalem sold all things and laid them at the apostles feet and gave to one another as they had need. But at the other extreme that one can do whatever they wish with whatever they have also ignores teaching about the ‘eat, drink and be merry’ crowd. To not provide for those in need is an equal atrocity as to take by force of law what was someone elses and give it to someone that doesn’t have the talent, ability, or who hasn’t put forth effort to earn.

When the Church doesn’t take care of widows and orphans and those in need, the Church fails; When the Church has negligent attitude towards decadence and fails to remind the flock of the requirements of provision has failed. Either way, the reason for this whole discussion is that the Church has failed and people have tried to get the Goverment to take up the slack. After we know our sin and have humbly some to Christ, it is time for the Church to become like Christ. He gave of Himself for the joy set before Him. He laid down His life for His Church. Here I preach to myself.

Nov 16, 2009 - 4:19 pm 100. Jordan:

No.. Jesus is not a capitalist.. He is a savior

Nov 16, 2009 - 6:40 pm 101. Brian:

Which form of economics feeds and provides prosperity to the greatest number of people?

Nov 17, 2009 - 4:14 am 102. Now and Then:

Actually, Jesus was born in Kenya. I have proof.

Nov 17, 2009 - 7:00 am 103. PC's wife:

Actually, in the scripture you quoted, Jesus is speaking of spiritual things, not earthly things. He only used the latter to help us to understand better what He intends for us in the spiritual realm. To say that Jesus supports capitalism, and use that verse as your “proof,” smacks of the same elsegesis of which you accused liberals. None of us are at liberty to cherry pick scripture verses and use them out of context of the Bible as a whole.

Nov 17, 2009 - 10:47 am 104. Robin:

Does anyone realize what a loser Michael Moore is? He is like that fat, dirty kid in 3rd grade that was mean to people first, because he knew they were going to be mean to him. Michael Moore has no clue what Jesus has to say. I didn’t think I would have any comments for this story on MM, but I do have one thing to add about Jesus. Jesus was not politically correct and it’s OK if we are not politically correct. Matthew, Mark and Luke point out the lack of political correctness on behalf of Jesus. He tells a woman chasing after him that her daughter is sick, she wants him to heal her, she is a gentile a woman who worshiped other Gods, she was not a Hebrew. He clearly tells her “Go away, I am not sent here to save you and your kind” He says this because it was true and truth is rarely politically correct. Her faith saved her, she referred to herself as a dog after the crumbs of the children of Israel and he healed her daughter, her faith was seen to him as a truth and he healed her daughter.
For anyone who has a bible, on of the references is made here Matthew 15:20-30. So Jesus was a bad guy because he let this woman know the truth? Maybe if everyone told the truth at least 95% of the time, we could understand each other better and come to be a better solution, rather than pretending that all IS OK with the US. Calling out people for who they really are, we should be doing that on a daily bases. Starting with the Media, bunch of socialistic lying wimps cowering on the side of socialism. We have become a bunch of people who think truth sounds like hate because people hate the truth. We are so far gone from any moral compass, that we stand for nothing and fall for everything. This once great people is letting Michael Moore tell us that Jesus was a socialist and thousands of people are buying like it was a new car for 50 cents. Michael Moore can and will go to H3LL my only sadness about this is that I won’t be there to see him. Yes, that makes me a big bad, non PC, cruel heartless person, so shoot me, oh wait, most liberals appall guns, ok, so don’t shoot me, just put me in line for hate crimes, oh no wait hate crimes can only be against a minority, oh wait Michael Moore is a minority, fat cows that can talk are a very big minority. I believe I am in line for a hate crime charge

Nov 18, 2009 - 10:56 pm