Pajamas Media

177 Comments

1. Joe the Plumber Vetted More Thoroughly Than Obama:

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Oct 20, 2008 - 8:51 am 2. Robert Hurley:

Poor Joe – He is not able to figure out that the Obama tax plan would be better for him than McCain’s. There are reasons to vote for McCain but that is not one of them

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:52 am 3. AlexinCT:

I think I was vetted more thoroughly when I applied for a car loan than Obama ever was by the MSM. There is no way that anyone would dig into this guy’s past and not end up concluding he is a disaster in the making. He is a Marxist that was indoctrinated by America hating radicals and the corrupt Chicago political machine. Basically the MSM has become a fifth column and has gone into the business of king making. It will be too late when Obama starts ripping up our Constitution and our great nation. The left has told us for 8 years now that we lived in a fascist state – without ever seeing the irony of the fact they could make such a claim without any fear of repercussion – while Obama has already started working hard to silence anyone who is saying things he doesn’t like. Be afraid people.

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:56 am 4. AlexinCT:

Robert Hurley,

Your first mistake is to believe Obama will implement that tax plan he has been lying about. There is no way he can generate the funds he needs for the spending he wants with that plan. As every democrat before him has done he will raise taxes on everyone: especially the middle class. The main purpose of socialists like Obama is not to create a fair tax system (despite their claim to do so), but to create as large as possible of a dependant base of people that rely on the largesse of government for their daily subsistence so they can guarantee themselves perpetual power. In the mean time this tax plan will cause unemployment, higher consumer costs, and drastically undermine our economy, but democrats like that because they can then expand government power even more. Obama’s plan only helps Obama and democrats get more power and keep it, not the people.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:00 am 5. tom:

Joe the plumber is Obama’s “Dukakis riding the tank moment”

it showed clearly Obama’s intentions

you can be sure that Obama’s $250k rate has been heavily researched in his class envy tax plan. Just how high to make it where those below it will be enraged at those big earners

many small businesses make $250k. Hardworking Americans are insulted when Obama trounces a man’s opportunity to make money without the government redistribution

then Obama has his media hacks defame the guy, shame

american’s aren’t as stupid as he believes

and most work hard and dont’ want a handout

watch McCain win all the red states except Iowa and maybe NM, and get Pennsyvania

Bill Clinton would have never insulted a voting hard working guy, Obama doesn’t get it, he’s been fawned too long, but he will come Nov 5th

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:05 am 6. tom:

Obama will also allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010
raising everyone’s taxes
it won’t be a tax increase but a move back to what is fair and honest

“fair and honest” even though lower taxes actually increase tax revenues to the fed gov.

add capital gains, death tax, etc ,etc and ouch

hard working people want opportunity – not welfare redistribution

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:08 am 7. RE:

Robert Hurley,

Other people telling Joe what is good for Joe is precisely the problem.

Joe has the right to decide what is best for Joe – Not me. Not You. And most certainly not Obama and the Democrat army nanny-state bureaucrats.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:11 am 8. Parabellum:

I’m tired of this ‘not really a plumber’ meme. Now I’m not sure about Ohio’s laws but in many states only ONE plumber in the company is required to carry a license.

The rest don’t bother due to the enormous time and money required to obtain one.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:14 am 9. Chaz:

I hope and pray Joe gets pulled out of the fire sometime soon. He’s gonna have hell to pay if Obama loses. He’s gonna have hell to pay, along with everyone else, if Obama wins.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:20 am 10. Rotwang:

I think it’s hysterical that McCain supporters are now taking plungers to his rallies, but they aren’t allowed to carry the sticks inside the venues.

This could only be more ridiculous if McCain had picked “Joe the Boil Lancer” or “Joe the Ass-Shaver” as his campaign’s tax mascot.

Republicans ALWAYS find the most humiliating (and revealing) gimmicks and symbols to show the world what they’re all about. I didn’t think J-Mac could top Moose-Girl, but he’s sure trying like hell.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:23 am 11. Jarhead:

Joe didn’t even touch on the real hard questions. What if his wife works? What if he lives in a particularly expensive region of the country? Do we get deductions for our kids or does $250k family income automatically qualify us as criminal bourgeois.

Why would my wife and I both continue to work our butts off if it will put us into a confiscation tax rate? Why would we continue to live in New Jersey instead of moving to a cheaper state where it is possible to live a middle-class lifestyle on what Obama has determined is a proper proletariat income?

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:25 am 12. Credit Man:

the problem with the $250K number is that’s for a family and not an individual. How’s about $125K per individual?

He sucks.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:37 am 13. AlexinCT:

Rotwang,

Since people like you always seem to be oblivious to reality let me point out that McCain did not pick “Joe the Plumber”, Obama did. The messiah was going around looking for a photo ops in some neighborhood in Ohio and he forgot some people are not collectivist fools. So he finally got asked a real question and his stupid answer bit him in the ass. The funny thing is that a plumber had to do the job of the MSM and ask Obama this question. So to inform the American people which might have also been thinking the same thing “Joe the Plumber” was, the MSM decided not to ask Obama to give more details, but to destroy “Joe the Plumber’s” credibility. The stupid American people should know better than to think about anything they are not told to by democrats or the MSM, after all.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:37 am 14. Professor Guvinoff:

Thanks God for Joe the plumber, and all the other un-bombastic custodians of common sense out there, whom we have not explicitly heard from, at least not until they cast their vote…

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:43 am 15. R a Z o R:

B O O K . D E A L . $ 250,000.00

” J o e . T h e . P l u m b e r ”

‘ an American dream come true ‘

‘ Mc C A I N * P A L I N ‘

C O U N T R Y * F I R S T

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:48 am 16. Believer:

The beginning of nightmares. No respect for law:

McCain/Palin bus window hit by .22 caliber weapon. No injuries, neither candidate on board. Painballs also hit the bus.

Many people now reporting up to $2500 charges on credit cards to Obama Campaign.

One Republican woman said she called headquarters to remove it and they tried to talk her into keeping the donation!!

Check your statements, folks.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:53 am 17. HRPKathy:

John McCain was in NC on Saturday – and the rally was fully of ‘Joes’. My husband wore a baseball cap with the logo “I’m Joe the plumber, here to flush taxes”.

On of McCain’s best lines was when he talked about the debate winner:

“The real winner this week was Joe the Plumber,” he said. “Joe won, because he’s the only person to get a real answer out of Senator Obama about his plans for our country. Congratulations Joe. That is an impressive achievement.”

~John McCain, Concord, NC, 10/18/08

Impressive indeed. There’s a lot of Joes out there and they are waking up to the fact that Obama is going to bankrupt them to fund his constituency. Lots of signs said “Don’t take Joe’s money”, etc. Obama’s first announcement will be that $250,000 is too high, the real confiscation rate starts at $100,000. Within a year he’ll drop it again.

Don’t be fooled. If you pay taxes at all, you are going to get gouged. And if you work for a small business, many of your coworkers will be axed to pay the fines that Obama has promised he will levy to force that employer to pay benefits he can’t afford.

And after Obama collectivizes medical care, you’ll get the same kind of service at the doctor’s office you get at the DMV.

Brave new world.

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:07 am 18. Sarah:

Since all the Obama fans out there seeem to be so in favor of “spreading the wealth” and of the opinion that “paying higher takes makes you more patriotic” I suggest that they lead by example!
Which one of you wants to pay MY taxes for the next year? How about paying for the food that will go on MY table? The clothes that will go on MY back? The gas that will go in MY car? HUH, WHICH ONE OF YOU????????
They all talk a really big game until it comes down to putting their $$$$ on the line! COME ON, I know one of you Democrats out there think you’re so much more evolved than everyone else that we need to start making all our decisions “for the greater good.”
PROVE IT! TELL ME WHERE I CAN START SENDING MY BILLS!

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:11 am 19. Flopping Aces » Blog Archive » “Spreading Opportunity” Rather Then “Wealth Around”:

[...] hey, its ok to tear this guy down because he dared to ask a question. Pam Meister wonders why the MSM isn’t asking Obama some questions: Am I missing something? Is Joe running [...]

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:21 am 20. SAF:

Is it a conspiracy if they wink? Since Obama got on the trail against Hillary any bad Obama stories have been muted and dissolved as quick as possible. I’m sure you can’t find any memorandum within the MSM which alludes to extinguishing bad Obama press and exploiting bad McCain press.

This is part of the brilliancy of the Obama candidacy. First, don’t campaign negatively, second, because you are a black democrat you can count on the MSM to do all the negative campaigning for you and hiding all your dirty laundry and third, this forces your opponent into negative campaigning which history shows isn’t liked by the American public and as such is a loser.

Vetting Joe and not vetting Obama are part of the WWLMW (World Wide Liberal Media Wink).

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:55 am 21. sandy (los angeles):

I posted “I am Joe the Plumber” on my social networking site, saying we would have to close up shop if we had a mandate about paying for employees’ health insurance. Do you know what the liberals all said? First of all they disparaged the guy, spouting the party lines. Then they told me to make everyone an independent contractor and thus “have no employees.” Essentially, the liberals were telling me ways to get around the Government mandates.

Re: Believer’s post – I heard about a $500 donation to Obama being charged as $5,000 on a client’s credit card.

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:58 am 22. cath:

but the real question is… was he vetted more thoroughly than sarah palin and her brood???

because she sure as hell wasn’t.

joe’s getting what he deserves. he misrepresented himself to make a point against obama, FOR the mccain campaign. it blew up in his face.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:29 am 23. Robert Hurley:

Alexinct:

I think you better understand what a sociaist is before you accuse someone of being one of them.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:39 am 24. Peter the Sub Guy:

“22. cath:
joe’s getting what he deserves. he misrepresented himself to make a point against obama, FOR the mccain campaign. it blew up in his face.”

Excuse me, but just HOW did Joe misrepresent himself? He’s a plumber that hopes to one day buy the business he currently works for. How is that misrepresentative?

If ANYONE has misrepresented himself, it’s Obama, who has told nothing about himself and hidden everything!

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:40 am 25. Robert Hurley:

By the way guy, this burdomsome tax increase would puut it back to the same rate for those earning over %250,000 as it was under Clinton. Now were you better off in those days or now?

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:42 am 26. USAF Captain:

Believer writes:

“The beginning of nightmares. No respect for law: McCain/Palin bus window hit by .22 caliber weapon. No injuries, neither candidate on board. Painballs also hit the bus. Many people now reporting up to $2500 charges on credit cards to Obama Campaign. One Republican woman said she called headquarters to remove it and they tried to talk her into keeping the donation!!”

..links to articles would be most welcome.

Check your statements, folks.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:45 am 27. Sarah:

Cathy,
I can see from your post that you are in favor of Obama. May I sent you my bills for the next year? Don’t try and tell me you aren’t in favor of “spreading your wealth.”

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:45 am 28. Matt:

Wow. Is this what it’s come to, Pajamas Media? Talking about Joe the Plumber like it’s the most important talking point of the day. STILL? What’s next? An article in defense of Hockey Moms?

Here’s how simple is: John McCain put this guy in the spotlight. As long as he continues to do so, the press will come chasing Joe’s tail. Which is just fine by me, because Joe gets plumb and plumber every time he opens his mouth.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:46 am 29. Peter the Sub Guy:

“25. Robert Hurley:
By the way guy, this burdomsome tax increase would puut it back to the same rate for those earning over %250,000 as it was under Clinton. Now were you better off in those days or now?”

Now. Definitely.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:52 am 30. Peter the Sub Guy:

“28. Matt:
Here’s how simple is: John McCain put this guy in the spotlight.”

No, Obama put this guy in the spotlight. Obama wanted to talk to Joe. Joe asked a question, and as usual when Obama doesn’t have a teleprompter in front of him, he had to think for himself and the first thing that came out was what was truly on him mind. His biggest problem was there was a camera there to record the whole event. So don’t be surprised if from now on any cameras that accompany Obama need to have their footage reviewed by the DNC before it can be broadcast.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:54 am 31. cath:

sarah, are you happy that the wealthy people in this country are not paying their fair share? and that people like me, who live paycheck to paycheck, and work just as hard, if not harder from 9-5, are made to bear the tax burden?

does that seem fair? really?

stop being so friggin’ greedy. think about someone other than yourself.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:57 am 32. schnargley:

Wow. Is this what it’s come to, Pajamas Media? Talking about Joe the Plumber like it’s the most important talking point of the day. STILL?(Matt)

Yea. Really. You’d think they’d want to talk about taxes, wealth distributon, dissimulation, media bias..or other issues. Geesh.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:57 am 33. fred:

Joe is now out of work and the company he works for is shut down. Way to go, Obonga, you and Biden just destroyed four American jobs. And Joe is publicly saying he will not accept charity. He just wants to work.

If the media were camped out on my front lawn, all I would have to do is to appear outside with my 270 Savage w/scope and I think I would then get some privacy.

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:59 am 34. Sarah:

Matt? Robert Hurley? Cathy?
Who’s volunteering their money to pay all my bills next year – put your money where your mouth is folks!
It’s time to PUT UP or SHUT UP!

Oct 20, 2008 - 11:59 am 35. Pierre Brice:

What’s wrong with socialist, Mr.McCain and Joe the Plumber should know when you taking 700 billions from the tax payer how do you call this…!

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:03 pm 36. Valerie:

Here’s a little gem from today’s Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/19/AR2008101902099.html

“McCain’s invocation of Joe the Plumber to make the case against Obama’s tax policies dissolved in a series of dispatches about how Joe Wurzelbacher is not a licensed plumber, he’s not in the high-income bracket targeted by Obama, and what’s more, his first name isn’t Joe.”

The Washington Post “debunks” stories by printing half-truths. In the present case, Joe is a guy who goes by his middle name, as he has every right to do. He is a plumber legally working for a licensed plumber, who will shortly be qualified for his license (it takes 5 years), who is planning to buy the business he works for, and expecting to expand it somewhat to get into that 250K bracket. He even said that he’d expect to hire one or more apprentices (people in his current position) to make that kind of money.

Joe’s plans sound reasonable to me. I was divorced, with an infant in tow. While I was married, I made 25K, not quite half the family income. After the divorce, I got my rear in gear, and in 5 years, had replaced my ex’s income. In another three, I had tripled my maximum married income. That was a while ago: the numbers would be higher, now.

In this country, an ambitious person can transform his or her income in 5 years. It does take effort. We need to keep the rewards in our system.

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:07 pm 37. Someone75:

The title of this article is just silly. Obama’s been in the national spot light for years. He was thoroughly vetted by Hillary’s people, just as he’s being thoroughly vetted by McCain’s people. I’ve said this before, but I’ll repeat: I feel bad for Joe – he didn’t ask for the media to swarm on his house and dig through his personal life.

At the same time, McCain is the one who made him a celebrity. Obama merely met him and spoke with him. McCain is solely responsibly for making Joe a household name. The media is just checking out someone that McCain deemed important enough to mention over 20 times in a national televised debate.

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:09 pm 38. Sarah:

Cathy,
I see you obviously don’t know your ASS from you ELBOW! Are you living in a BOX? Most taxes are ALREADY paid by the rich!!! Why don’t you start B*tching about all the people on welfare that pay NO taxes, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH!!!!!I also happen to live “paycheck to paycheck” – I decided to pay for my own college education instead of relying on the government to do it for me. I’m am not nor do I ever believe I will be one of “the wealthy” – but I REFUSE to sacrifice the freedom that men and women, much better than you will ever be, died for on the alter of “handouts for everyone, and spreading the wealth” like you are quite obviously willing to do!

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:09 pm 39. Eric:

“31. Cath
sarah, are you happy that the wealthy people in this country are not paying their fair share?”

The top 1% of earners pay 40% of all taxes. The top 5% pay 70%. 40% of Americans pay no income taxes. Paying the bulk of the taxes is not “paying their fair share”?

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:11 pm 40. Robert Hurley:

Peterthesub guy:

Then you should vote for McCain but the rest of us who were better off under BC should vote for Obama. I wonder who will have more votes?

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:23 pm 41. Big Ben:

Say it ain’t so Joe; you don’t have a current plumber’s license.

Guess who also doesn’t have an active license in his chosen trade; Barack Obama, that’s who. His law license in Illinois is currently not active. and Michelle Obama is also not licensed to practice law.

Why would they not have kept their licenses active? was it to avoid the fees, or perhaps to avoid a Bar investigation into the Rezko matter.

Maybe Ms. Sawyer would want to update her viewers on this one.

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:24 pm 42. Nate:

A poor man recieves the same legal protections from government as a rich man. He votes the same vote. He drives on the same roads. He is guarded from conquerors by the same military. If his fishing boat sinks he is picked up by the same Coast Guard that picks up the rich man if his yacht sinks. Yet the rich man pays more for these services. HOW IS THAT FAIR?

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:24 pm 43. Robert Hurley:

Sarah:

What on earth are you going to do when Obama wins?

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:25 pm 44. Huston:

Rarely if ever have I agreed with either Bill or Hillary Clinton, on any mater of politics. However, I have never had cause to question their American values, or their patriotism. Obama is quite different. He represents a culture of extreme left wing liberals, with an agenda to reshape the American way of life. He has adopted a Niccolò Machiavelli.”The Prince” attitude, justifying any means to achieve the end he desires. His represented positions, with respect to several critical issues, are not consistent with his historical stances, actions, or associations. He is a deceiver of the first class, with a golden mouth with which to fool the people, spewing out what ever will tickle their ears. This man is no patriot, he’s not even un-American, he’s anti-American. Beware Americans, what you see, is not what you’ll get.

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:28 pm 45. Seadancer:

Go to this web site this preacher has Obama pegged. We do not know who he is because he doesn’t want us to know. I personally think everyone should pay taxes rich and poor. Why not come up with a percentage and just deduct that from everyone even if they are on welfare?

Here is the site.
http://www.pyrabang.com/contenteditor.php?pd=4057&ps=4121&org=3955&target=http://www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr10-17-08.html

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:29 pm 46. rvastar:

By the way guy, this burdomsome tax increase would puut it back to the same rate for those earning over %250,000 as it was under Clinton. Now were you better off in those days or now?

Why don’t you ask the economy that question, since the current unravelling it’s undergoing started with the Democrats and the CRA during the so-called Clinton Golden Years? Or you maybe you should ask Obama about it, since he was busy at the time training his buddies at ACORN on how to pressure banks into making bad loans. But watch out: the Ministry of Information doesn’t take kindly to pee-ons questioning Dear Leader…they may start “plumbing” around in you past, too.

So typical of Democrats: get their sh!tball social tinkering rolling, then when it falls apart later and damages the country, blame Republicans.

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:40 pm 47. Sarah:

Robert Hurley:
My mother always taught me not to count my chickens before they were hatched – I’d hate for you to have to eat your “chickens” as it were. I’ve heard feathers don’t digest well!
Keep fightin’ the good fight little comrade Robert, you’re an outstanding soldier for the Obamabot regime!

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:52 pm 48. Sarah:

P.S. Robert Hurley:
Are you volunteering to pay all my bills next year? Quite obviously it would be counter-productive for me to work harder lest I be shoved up into a higher tax bracket – maybe I’ll just go on welfare so you can support me!

Oct 20, 2008 - 12:57 pm 49. AlexinCT:

Robert Hurley, anyone whom thinks the Obama tax plan is a better one is a socialist. Obama has admitted, albeit by pure accident, his plan is to redistribute wealth from the productive to those whom will vote for him if he gives them a share of the loot. That’s socialism: stealing from the haves so big government can keep power. Also better known these days as trickle up poverty. You might need to get your facts straight.

And the only reason you where better of under BC was precisely such scams as the housing market one which later crashed the economy. But don’t worry Obama won’t be able to do this again. With his desire to bring back mercantilism and full blown European style socialism, nobody but the elites will be doing well again. Oh, the media might tell you things are great like they did during the Clinton years, but we all know where that led us.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:04 pm 50. John Spiller:

So it is okay for McCain to tell americans who have a job, have taxes taken out of their paychecks but due to tax loopholes end up not paying “additonal” taxes are socialists. It is okay for McCain to say we are welfare receivers even though we struggle to put gas in our cars, food on our tables, pay our bills.
McCain ridicules Obama for trying to help out the americans who are suffering at the expense of the greedy rich.
I don’t see McCain offering any specific relief for the middle class- He can’t even say Middle Class or his robot Sarah Palin. Governer of only 600,000 people. They got lots of breaks, but I don’t see her advocating the same breaks for middle class in the lower 49 states.

Nov 4 is coming. Check out McCain’s web site and read his policies. Check out Obama’s web site and read his policies. Then ask yourself. Which candidate offers me more overall hope for my future and the future of the next generation?

Then go vote and live with your choice.

Greed is destroying the human race. What makes you think the rich will filter down their savings with another tax break? Dream on. They are already laughing on their way to the bank as their accounts get fatter. The last thought on their mind is you losing your job, going hunger, filing bankruptcy, facing forclosure. They are too busy spending their loot on themselves.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:08 pm 51. AlexinCT:

Hey cath,

The other day someone posted the best explenation on how to debunk idiots that claim the rich are not paying their fair share in taxes, so I will do so again for you:

How Taxes Work — or, ‘How to Pay for Beer’

Another one from the mailbag:

“Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.’ Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

‘I only got a dollar out of the $20′ declared the sixth man. Then he pointed at the tenth man, ‘but he got $10!’
‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’

‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’

‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him.

But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works.

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

-David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics University of Georgia

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:10 pm 52. Joe C.:

You know, maybe Joe the Plumber is more concerned about his country than himself. What a crazy thought!

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:13 pm 53. Eric:

Another tax increase Obama will likely support is an emerging Democrat proposal to eliminate the tax deferral for 401k contributions. In its place they are proposing that the government TAKE 5% of everyone’s salary for deposit in a government retirement account.

http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081012/REG/310139971

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:17 pm 54. Kingston53:

Byron York at NRO has a great post about some of the “I AM Joe” participants at a McCain rally. The telling part was when the construction worker named Tito had to correct the pencil necked reporter from Mother Jones about his rights under the constitution. A priceless moment. Viva the “I AM JOE” movement and may GOD BLESS AMERICA AND SAVE IT FROM ITS INTERNAL ENEMIES.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:28 pm 55. Robert Hurley:

Sarah:

Did you mother tell you to think before you talked and to be careful about accusing people that you don’t know? I guess not from what I have seen from you.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:28 pm 56. Sarah:

Dear John Spiller:
“The rich” according to the Obama tax plan are those that make over $250K/year a.k.a. SMALL BUSINESS THAT CREATE 80% of AMERICAN JOBS! When you and I think “rich” we think “Bill Gates” and “Donald Trump” and “Hollywood.”
A break or increase won’t phase these people but when all the small businesses that are already stuggling in your town start closing down maybe you’ll realize that “spreading the wealth” wasn’t the best idea after all. If you want to make a “ghost town” out of America, by all means, vote Obama! Your destitute,jobless, lazy chidren will have you to thank for it!

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:35 pm 57. Susan:

What Joe the plumber and most of the public understand, but Obama and his media stooges can’t get, is that the plumber has hopes of earning $250,000+ per year even if he doesn’t now.When Obama and his amen corner continue to repeat the mantra that Joe won’;t pay more taxes under Obama’s plan they demonstrate how truly out of touch they are.But some of us new that from the First Act

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:41 pm 58. Fedup:

You people are stupid. You know nothing about socialism-since you are so stupid let me explain. In socialism everyone gets paid the same-that means your doctor, your salesman, etc. This taxes have nothing to do with socialism. The bailout is more socialistic than anything-in effect the govt owns you. This is not what the democrates are advocating but a redistribution of taxes-check out what the millionaires and higher execs pay-you will find out that they probably pay alot less than you.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:43 pm 59. always right:

20. SAF:
…second, because you (Obama) are a black democrat…

Wrong! Obama is only a half-’black’ democrat.

If I oppose Obama, am I a racist due to his blackness or his whiteness?

/BTW by definition, I can not be a racist due to my own racial origin

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:51 pm 60. Peter the Sub Guy:

“50. John Spiller:
Nov 4 is coming. Check out McCain’s web site and read his policies. Check out Obama’s web site and read his policies. Then ask yourself. Which candidate offers me more overall hope for my future and the future of the next generation?”

McCain. Definitely.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:52 pm 61. Sarah:

Oh Robert Hurley,
Booooo Hoooo, did I hurt your feelings? What am I “accusing” you of? Being in the bag for Obama? Why would that get you all up in arms? You do agree with his policies, right? You’re the one that engaged me, sir! Don’t get your panties all up in a twist when the response isn’t to your liking – if you’re looking for a bunch of people to agree with you try the CNN message boards!

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:53 pm 62. Sarah:

P.S.S. Robert Hurley:
By the way…you never answered my question…Are you going to volunteer to pay all my bills next year like a good little Democrat? I’m standing here with my hand out, where’s my “handout?”

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:56 pm 63. Robert Hurley:

For your edification:

The average small business owner reports a yearly salary of between $36,000 and $75,000 a year.

Careerbuilder.com-Reports the average Small business owner salary is $36,266

Of course, these sites depend on user imput, so it may not be accurate. So I went to the government sites.

Bureau of Labor Statistics

This is a cumbersome report, but I encourage you to read it anyway. Not one category is showing an average income of over $250,000 a year. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, and sales managers show an average in range of $100,000-$150,000, but not near $250,000.

FINALLY, digging around the U.S. Census site. The 2007 report of income by source of income!

The report shows number of individuals reporting a type of income (keep in mind, the number is in thousands. Don’t read it as is), and my median income. Almost 12.5 million people filed self-employment income (only looking at non-farm income, as farming has its own set of subsidies and tax laws different from other businesses). The average amount of self-employment income reported per taxpayer is $31,246

That is the number we are looking for, because the majority of small business owners that file report self-employment income. So it appears that the average income of a small business owner is well below $250,000.

So First Assumption is broken. The Obama plan will NOT hurt the typical small business owner.

Now let’s look at the Second Assumption. Will giving tax breaks to people making over $250,000 a year encourage them to create more jobs? This assumption assumes these individuals are making their money in fields that would in fact lead to job creation. According to U.S. Census reports 1,324,000 reported incomes above $250,000.

So who are these 1,324,000 people?

Again, it’s hard to narrow it down. Most of the statistical charts deal in median income, which means it throws out the top and bottom wages to calculate the average. So perhaps we have to go with our collective knowledge. What groups can we identify, off the top of our heads, that earn $250,000 a year?

Entertainers and Athletes. These guys are pulling down millions (OK, not the D-list actors, but you know what I mean). Does giving them a tax break generate more jobs? Does reducing their tax bill by, on average, $15,000 a year, create a new job? Or does it buy another Rolex? Or, on the other side, does increases their taxes by, on average, $23,000, destroy an existing job? They might have to fire their housekeeper or gardener…no, that would mean they would clean their own houses or mow their own yards. Besides, most of the Hollywood types are supporting Obama anyway, so obviously they aren’t concerned about the $23,000.

Corporate CEOs. Not the guy who incorporates his business and gives himself the title to sound important. We’re talking about the big boys from the big corporations. These are the guys running those big banks, mortgage lenders, investment firms, and such that the taxpayers are currently bailing out to the tune of billions of dollars. These are the guys that make the decisions to move jobs overseas, close plants, and fight giving employees a living wage. Will putting an extra $15,000 on average in their pockets suddenly inspire them to move jobs out of China and back to the U.S.? Or will increasing their taxes on average $23,000 help offset some of the economic problems their lack of forethought caused?

Health Care professionals and attorneys. While the median doctor income is around $150,000, some earn hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now don’t get me wrong, I respect the work these folks do and believe they earn that money. But will giving them a $15,000 tax break create a new job?

Marketing/Sales professionals. Though the median income for these folks is around $90,000, those that work for the major firms can pull down MILLIONS! Of course, their income depends on the average American being able to afford to buy the stuff they are marketing. When the economy bottoms out, these guys stand to lose a lot. So will giving them a $15,000 tax credit save their jobs? Or would increasing their tax by $23,000 in order to provide a tax credit to the middle class actually help them make MORE money, because the average American would have more disposable income to spend on Xboxes, clothes, and cars?

Investment Brokers and Speculators. Have you seen the chaos on Wall Street lately? Would giving them a $15,000 tax credit fix the problem? Enough said.

The Wealthy. The folks who come from “Old Money.” Those that inherited money from their families. The select few like Bill Gates that pulled themselves up and launched their own empires. Will giving any of them a tax credit inspire them to do anything they aren’t already doing? The wealthy that already give back to the community will continue to do so. The wealthy that do not will continue not to. A tax break is not going to change the behavior of either group. Neither is a tax increase.

In short, Obama’s tax plan does NOT hurt small business owners. In many cases, it would benefit small business owners directly and indirectly. The typical small business owner would qualify under the Obama tax credits, and the millions of other Americans that get the credit would have more disposable income to spend at their businesses.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:59 pm 64. Robert Hurley:

and:

In a member survey conducted late last year, the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) found that only 14% of respondents said they had $200,000 or more in annual income.]

[The bottom line: McCain's claim only works by using an overly broad definition of what counts as a "small business" - and even with that definition, fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase. For those who are affected, the increase would be levied only on a part of their earnings, not all of them.]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbus…

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:01 pm 65. John Spiller:

Sarah: Small business is already closing down. Restaurants – no customers (can’t afford to go out to eat). Entertainment places – no customers (can’t afford to go out).
Industries – no one buying their products (have to pay bills, etc. Can’t afford to spend on things we use to).

If you believe giving the ‘rich’ more tax breaks is going to help you so be it. If you believe the ‘rich’ are going to spread their new wealth and not pocket their extra income, so be it.

My point is simple. Check out each website’s policies. Not the retoric of the speeches or the overpaid spin people on TV (CNN, FOXNEWS, MSNBC).

Once you research the “real” data that has no name calling or misleading spins, then make your choice. Nov 4 – vote.

But I believe, 4 years from now, we will be having these discussions again. It hasn’t changed in the last 40 years.

Poitician – I will do or say whatever will get your vote, but once elected, all bets are off.

Wait and see.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:03 pm 66. patriot25:

oh yeah?! take this blogger-khan. do you know that zuit-suits don’t always fit when the argument’s a spectre. Take your last point for example. Obviously a silly goose!! We need americans leading us into the 20th century.
I’m proud of McCain and he’s proud to have me supporting him!
Go McCain-Palin!

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:15 pm 67. ex-democrat:

hey spiller, hurley: quit trying to bambbozle and hoodwink everyone with your axelturfing talking points (all of which are false or miselading, by the way) and defend your messiah’s statement that the central tenet of his economic policy is to “spread the wealth around.”

go on, let’s hear it.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:20 pm 68. Javelin:

Gee, you mean someone hasn’t heard about Ayers and Wright about 1000 times? Pam, you posts are true classics of blogtardation. They are petty trash served hot to gin up the mob.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:21 pm 69. Peter the Sub Guy:

“63. Robert Hurley:
For your edification:
The average small business owner reports a yearly salary of between $36,000 and $75,000 a year.
Careerbuilder.com-Reports the average Small business owner salary is $36,266
Of course, these sites depend on user imput, so it may not be accurate. So I went to the government sites.”

The small business I work for (defined by the fact we have less than 300 employees) was just awarded a near $20Million government contract just last week.

And while most ‘Mom & Pop’ small business owners may TAKE HOME less than $50K a year, it’s not the take home the IRS will be assessing. It’s the amount of income the SMALL BUSINESS makes that will be taxed. Now how many ’small businesses’ will and won’t see a tax increase under Obama?

(Hint, if Obama wins, the answer is ALL OF THEM will see an increase, as he takes away Bush’s tax cuts, raises capital gains, etc, etc…)

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:25 pm 70. Robert Hurley:

Poor Sarah – when she does not how to get her facts straight she lashes out! She must been a terror in the ninth grade!

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:29 pm 71. SarahBiggestFan:

What most of you Right Wingnuts don’t understand is that when we bailed out Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG; our federal govenment have already started socialism by spreading the money to the wealthiest CEOs in the financial market. Now, they can continue with their dirty practices like AIG spending over $400K over a weekend party right after receiving the bailout money. This is socialism, you idiots.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:30 pm 72. John Spiller:

Peter the Snub guy
RE:60

Remember, on Nov 4 you made your choice. I hope you can live with the consequences.

Just don’t believe the spin on TV or any of the negative speeches from anyone.

Politicians = we will do or say whatever it takes to get your vote. Once elected, all bets are off

See ya in 4 years arguing Jobs, education, health care, foreign policy, etc.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:33 pm 73. John Spiller:

ex democrat: #67

I guess you can’t read.

Politician = I will do or say whatever will get your vote. But once elected, all bets are off.

Regardless who is the next president, we will be having these discusions 4 years from now.

Greed is ruling the human race regardless of political party. Greed drives the human being – more is not enough.

If you can cure greed, we then have hope. Until then welcome to the circus.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:38 pm 74. Peter the Sub Guy:

“70. Robert Hurley:
Poor Sarah – when she does not how to get her facts straight she lashes out! She must been a terror in the ninth grade!”

Hate to point this out, Robert, but you’re being purely 5th grade this entire post.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:38 pm 75. Chris:

I do believe that Robert Hurley just owned this entire thread. These things aren’t as simple as a lot of you would like to believe.

McCain already proved to us he wasn’t ready to be president when he picked Palin. Seriously people. Sarah Palin. If you can’t see the problem here then you shouldn’t vote.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:43 pm 76. Argyll:

Joe the Plumber:

One man
One opinion
One time

Yeah, I think I get it now….

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:50 pm 77. Alan Burton:

Hi, Some years ago, I set up a private business. Family members were hired at what would be considered low wages. We made profits. Family members got raises first but we needed more workers. I wound up hiring first one and it finally rose to ten workers outside my family in an improverished part of the South in the 1970s. All workers started at the minimum wage.

My gross income rose to over $100,000 a year before deductions.I had ten workers making anywhere from the minimum wage to seven times more than the minimum of the time. That time was the late 1970s. I had fifteen employees. five were me and my family. Ten were not related to us. Unemployment nationwide was very high. Locally, it was over 14%.

I bought a small group health insurance plan and then ran the numbers. Between workman’s comp, unemployment insurance, matching contributions to Social Security and other required additions to my labor costs, I learned that for every dollar I paid directly, I was paying 36 cents in additional labor costs, most of which were government mandated.(This was 1978).

My establishment had three restrooms. all were available to either sex. OSHA paid me a visit and instructed me as to what was needed to provide adequate toilet facilities for fifteen people. It was going to cost some $80,000 to comply. I did so and had to let two people go in order to take care of the bill. My service to customers declined a bit as a result. I was compliant with federal law though.

The economy continued to sour in 1980. I was forced to lay off two additional people in order to have enough draw to feed and educate my own family. My unemployment comp rate increased dramatically. I paid that but was forced to lay off another employee to pay for it. Now I was down to five non-family employees. I was showing a profit but like most small businesses, I didn’t pay corporate taxes or capital gains taxes. My income was handled as required on a 1040. I was also paying the “self-employment tax” which means 100% of my own Social Security.

The state instituted an increased “inventory tax”. With some $4 million in inventory and another $600,000 in fixtures and equipment, an additional 2% amounted to $92,000. Three employees had to leave. One was a family member who had completed her education, another was an older person who decided to retire at that point and a member of my family and another a non-related employee. Now, I had four non-family members working for me and was chronically short-handed.

The municipality needed money for schools, so they imposed an additional 1% inventory tax above and beyond what I had been paying the state.

Our sales were around $1.1 million a month. On that, we collected 3% sales tax for the state as well as 1% for the local government. The state paid us a fee of 2% of sales tax collected whether the sales were cash or creidt which in some cases were never paid. In English, this means we collected some $33,000 per month on average and received the princely sum of $660 a month for our bookkeeper who handled sales taxes for the state. Of course, the bookkeeper cost more than $660 a month. The rebate was described as excessive by a certain gubernatorial candidate named Clinton.

I had to let the bookkeeper go as I could no longer afford her. By this time, I had been forced to let a total of seven people unrelated to me of the ten I had buit up to.

Roughly 2.5% of all sales were credit sales that went unpaid. I understand that for small retail businesses tend to have higher rates of default. I had paid the full sales taxes on those sales as required by law. There was no way to recover what was uncollectable.

I became disgusted with yet more regulations and liquidated my business. By that time, my parents were either dead or retired. My siblings had finished their educations. I had been going to classes and gotten a couple of degrees.

I told my few remaining employees some six months in advance that I would liquidate the business and they would be unemployed by me after that time. We sold merchandise at fire sale prices and performed our services and walked away in 1982.

This is how regulation and taxation make small businesses that have been built up go under. I managed to survive financially. After adjusting for inflation and over a period of fifteen years, I got my original investment back and had made a living in the meantime. It took fifteen years to break even.

I went into a totally different profession as a scientist working mostly for small businesses. I have since retired but really would have preferred to remain self-employed and employing others. I survived for almost fifteen years before leaving it behind which is a measure of some sort of ability. Many have the same experiences earlier on.

I view a veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress coupled with an Obama presdiency as being a replay of Jimmy Carter and Governor Bill Clinton who did what in my opinion is a terriffic amount of damage to Arkansas and probably the USA as well.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:07 pm 78. Credit Man:

let me get the definitions down.

1. Liberal=one who hates themselves

2. Conservative=one who lets liberals do #1

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:09 pm 79. RE:

Chris,

It doesn’t matter how many times you attempt to diminish Sarah Palin, her resume and list of accomplishments dwarfs Obama’s. Governors are not allowed to vote ‘present’.

She also has no terrorists and race agitator connections in her past and present. But I’ve heard it said that one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

But I have to concede that she does indeed lack the endorsements of foreign despots like Chavez, Ghadafi, and Odinga. So you got us on that one.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:25 pm 80. tom:

the obamabots are out in real force

must be this socialist tag doesn’t sit well with their emperor

that’s okay – it won’t sit well with voters either

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:26 pm 81. vivo:

Republican hysterics over details that nobody cares …

Polls show that 90% of voters are already committed. 10% won’t make a difference.

Keep blogging for entertainment value.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:33 pm 82. vivo:

80. RE:

“But I have to concede that she does indeed lack the endorsements of foreign despots like Chavez, Ghadafi, and Odinga. So you got us on that one.”

She will get their endorsement as “2nd Place Miss Alaska”.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:39 pm 83. John Spiller:

#72. Standby,you are in for a legal fight. Not me… someone is going to sue you for your slanderous words. I am surprised Pajamas allowed it. The are lawyers out there just for this kind of exuces to take you to court.

Good luck

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:47 pm 84. mishu:

Now were you better off in those days or now?

Am I better off in 2008 than in 1996? Hell yeah. I make twice as much now than I did then.

What most of you Right Wingnuts don’t understand is that when we bailed out Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG; our federal govenment have already started socialism by spreading the money to the wealthiest CEOs in the financial market. Now, they can continue with their dirty practices like AIG spending over $400K over a weekend party right after receiving the bailout money. This is socialism, you idiots.

No s*!t Sherlock. You think us “wingnuts” are happy about that? Why the hell would we want more? Moonbat.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:47 pm 85. AmericanwithBrain:

It is amazing how we are getting bombarded by the freaks from both sides. I am getting tired of the right and the left telling me what I want or what I should think. Republicans and Democrats both have let the American people down. Where is the voice from the middle? Where can we go to talk about the politics withpout the freaks taking over? I am not a Dem or Rep, I am an American with a brain and I think it is time we let the freaks know they no longer run our great country!

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:50 pm 86. Jeff Weimer:

Remember, the point of the whole Joe the Plumber dustup is Obama’s “Spread the Wealth” statement. Every bit of bad information about Joe is completely irrelevant, it doesn’t change Obama’s statement and the philosophy behind it.

Handing free money out isn’t going to fix anything. Letting people keep their money costs less than robbing Peter to pay Paul. The types of people you cite are nice, Robert, and they may very well have little direct job creation, but just who do you think you are deciding what their compensation SHOULD be? And who are YOU to tell them “gimme, I’ll give it to someone I decide needs it more.” Classic class envy, and you want to use the government to coerce people.

But we’re talking about a hypothetical. Obama’s tax plan is a promise, not a fact that will happen when he is elected. This is the same for all promises made by both candidates. His tax plan has little chance of being enacted as he plans – as we saw so starkly with the bailout bill(s). It may not happen at all, or it may be MORE confiscatory. If his caucus in the House and Senate want it that way, there’s a very good chance he will go along. After all, he’s NEVER bucked them on anything. He’s not even worked with the other party when legislating something as uncontroversial as ethics reform, as Mccain found to his dismay: http://obama.senate.gov/letter/060206-sen_obama_and_sen_mccain_exchange_letters_on_ethics_reform/. In addition, it is a virtual certainty that the Bush tax cuts will expire on an Obama watch, he has said so specifically. So taxes will be “raised” from what we’re paying now, and that will hit a lot more people below $250k, regardless if he gets his tax proposal as is or not. It’s also true that these recent cuts haven’t hurt the economy, but they’ve not worked as well as we’d like. There were fundamental problems that this wasn’t enough to repair after a while. But it’s equally true that ANY tax raise WILL hurt beyond what we’re feeling now, so that’s definitely not the way to go, no matter how hurt you feel someone is more successful.

We need to hold down spending, a promise McCain has made. Like the Obama tax pledge, we’ll see. But McCain has shown something Obama hasn’t. A willingness to to toe to toe with ANYONE in EITHER PARTY to accomplish what he feels is right, so I feel more confident he’ll get his way if elected rather than Obama. And don’t give me the 90% with his party meme (Obama’s a staggering 97%), that 10% includes Campaign Finance Reform, the Surge, and Immigration Reform (with nearly losing the nomination), to name a few.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:51 pm 87. Zhombre:

Why don’t the Joe the Plumbers of the world know what is best for them? Poor dumb fools. They need the Robert Hurley’s of the world to look out for them. I think Robert Hurley, being so well informed and astute, should have cumulative votes. Four or five perhaps. So he can vote the best interests of the naive and incredulous Joe’s.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:57 pm 88. Is That an Ulcer in Your Stomach or Are You Just Worried About the Election? « Obi’s Sister:

[...] the Plumber gets the media a’googling…but why can’t they google A-C-O-R-N? Or Ayers? Or Khalidi? Or Odinga? Are they so rapt [...]

Oct 20, 2008 - 4:11 pm 89. JohnRJ08:

The ignorance and implicit racism of some posts on this blog is stunning. People making totally unproven and unverifiable accusations, while conveniently ignoring anything which has previously disproven them. Rather than go through all the litany of reasons why McCain should NOT be elected, let’s just focus on the obvious fact that he has continued to run one of the most despicable political campaigns in U.S. history despite the fact that every major poll has shown that it isn’t working. This is called pig-headed, self-destructive anger at work. OK. Maybe some people won’t mind having a president who graduated 894th in his Naval Academy class of 899 midshipmen. Maybe some won’t worry that this ill-tempered man who has a well-known reputation in the Senate of not being able to control his anger might actually be too quick to resort to military solutions. But why would anybody want to elect a man who chose a running mate who actually believes that mankind walked alongside living dinosaurs? What could you people possibly be thinking?

Oct 20, 2008 - 4:17 pm 90. Ed Wallis:

…and, “JohnRJ08″, just what could Obama have been thinking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xBlTdsnOh8

Oct 20, 2008 - 4:34 pm 91. Believer:

USAF Captain:

Sorry I only know to tell you to go to:

gatewaypundit.blogspot.com

scroll down for story on shooting at bus. MANY other stories there to read about too. Good site.

I’ve been hearing for two days now on the radio the credit card problems – and heard the Republican woman who called in to report the $50 that they tried to have her say was okay to charge anyway.

Uh, does it not occur to these Obama ‘volunteers’ that a CRIME has been committed? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

Excuse me.

Oct 20, 2008 - 4:56 pm 92. SarahBiggestFan:

91. Ed Wallis,

You and many idiots like you just won’t give up the Obama and Ayers story. What about McCain and Charles Keating? What about McCain and G. Gordon Liddy (anyone remember Watergate)?

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:04 pm 93. vivo:

86. AmericanwithBrain:

“I am not a Dem or Rep, I am an American with a brain and I think it is time we let the freaks know they no longer run our great country!”

Just let these freak know what you think. It will freak them more to know there are sensible people in this country. And have fun in the process!!

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:14 pm 94. Peter the Sub Guy:

“82. vivo:
Polls show that 90% of voters are already committed. 10% won’t make a difference.”

When the polls say there is only a 2% difference between candidates (or in some cases, less), then 10% makes a LOT of difference.

And who says the current polls are right. Polls in 2004 predicted President Kerry. (Shudder)

Polls in 2000 predicted President Gore. (Shudder again.)

Polls in 1980 said we would have 8 years of Carter. So I won’t count anyone out until Nov. 5th.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:20 pm 95. Xavier Cugat:

McCain is going to ‘Thread the Needle’ to Victory: 274-264 in the Electoral College.

The unmasking of Barrack ‘Spread the Wealth’ Obama combined with the MSM detonation of the persona of ‘Joe the Plumber’ was ‘That One’s’ shining moment jerking around in the tank of Socialism.

A viewpoint of a presumptive President of the United States which Americans will utterly reject on November 4th.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:22 pm 96. Peter the Sub Guy:

“93. SarahBiggestFan:
You and many idiots like you just won’t give up the Obama and Ayers story. What about McCain and Charles Keating? What about McCain and G. Gordon Liddy (anyone remember Watergate)?”

Funny how people who like to claim the Ayers connection is irrelavent continue to bring up Keating (for which McCain was completely cleared and should never have been prosecuted) and G. Gorden Liddy, who last I checked did not try to blow up the Capital building, the Pentagon or my cousin at One Police Plaza.

People are judged by the company they keep. Lets see… Ayers, Rezko, Wright… so many others. Not the kind of company I would keep. Nor anyone I know. Nor anyone I would want to know…

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:29 pm 97. Ditto:

LOL That “rich mark” is rich alright. Especially in California, people who are self-employed don’t keep even 60% of what they make, and I’m not talking about what we put back into our businesses. I’m just talking about tax rates. Between my fiance’s business and my own, we make close to $150K. After taxes that’s whittled down to right about $80K We live in a so-called apartment that is under 600 sq. ft.that costs $1000 a month.

We aren’t rich.

If my business picks up, we’ll get into that higher tax bracket. If it doesn’t we will never get to own a home. Obama can take his caste system proposals and do something unprintable with them.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:35 pm 98. tanstaafl:

Joe the Plumber seems like a really nice guy. Articulate & thoughtful, as well.

The attempt at belittlement of Joe by both Biden and Obama should be very telling to you all.

The press’ full metal jacket assault on a plumber asking a Presidential candidate a question as said candidate wandered through said plumber’s neighborhood…should send a chill up your spine.

Also inducing chilling of the spine should be Obama’s plan to “spread the wealth around” ASIF it is even within the powers or mandate of a US President to redistribute America’s wealth according to his own ideas.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:37 pm 99. AlexinCT:

Robert Hurley,

Obama is not planning on only taxing the personal income of small business owners, but he plans to drastically increase taxes on any and all income of small businesses. With a very few exceptions and cases of one or two man operations, most small businesses easily break that $250K barrier Obama has presented as his threshold. And let me point something real obvious out: Obama has promised close to $2 trillion in new spending. Considering he is not planning on cutting any other spending than that for our military and security, there is no way he can deliver on even a fraction of his promises without raising taxes on everyone making $40K and over. And the real elephant in the room is the fact that Obama does not consider letting the Bush tax cuts expire as a tax hike of any kind. So please stop lying. Everybody will be paying more taxes under Obama. The whole premise of progressivism is to steal people’s wealth and then have government give some meager portion back and claim they are helping you out. They are not doing anything to help the people. They are helping themselves. And any appearance of help – and I say so because in reality nobody is getting any real kind of help – is just gravy to make it easier for them to sell this monstrously vile scam to everybody.

Oh yeah, please ask Chris to pull his nose out of your backside. It is unbecoming.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:48 pm 100. Jeff Weimer:

How much have you looked into the Keating thing? He was EXONERATED – the prosecutor even recommended he and John Glenn be removed from the investigation, but the Democrats on the Committe wanted a Republican there so it could be “bipartisan” so even Glenn had to stay. And Liddy? Liddy Likes McCain, so what? Many convicted felons like Obama too, and may even get to vote for him. How does that stack up to Ayers, Wright, Rezko, et al? Nice try with the Tu Quoque.

Despicable campaign? Obama preemptively brought up the race issue, McCain has studiously avoided it. He hasn’t brought up Wright purely for that reason. If you want to bring up supporters and paint the candidates with it, how about “Sarah Palin is a C**t and MILP and random acts of violence like, say firebombing a McCain sign in Portland, OR, or even Kerry’s “Depends” joke. the most despicable slime I’ve seen has come from the Left and rabid Obama supporters in and out of the campaign. Do you read Huffpo, DU, or dKos? Or Andrew Sullivan? Check them out and then read Redstate.com, Hotair, Ace, newsbusters, and LGF and compare the levels of debate and vitriol. My take: the “unhinged wingnuts” on the right wing sites are pretty tame compared to the abject viciousness I see at the other four.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:50 pm 101. tanstaafl:

Sarah Palin is orders of magnitude smarter and quicker than her assorted bashers.

I hope this helps.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:53 pm 102. Peter the Sub Guy:

99. tanstaafl:

Thanks, tanstaafl, for getting the posts back on topic.

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:56 pm 103. Jeff Weimer:

Oh and I almost forgot, greatest “hits” from the Obama CAMPAIGN:

When Stanley Kurtz went on Milt Rosenberg’s Extension 720 radio show in Chicago to talk about Ayers and the Annenberg Challenge, Obama’s campaign sent out an “Action Alert” to call in to the show, the producers, anyone in order to stop it from airing, or just stop Kurtz from speaking. They did it to Freddoso, too. With talking points. A “New Tone”. An honorable campaign. Riiiiiight.

Oct 20, 2008 - 6:03 pm 104. Tcobb:

McCain already proved to us he wasn’t ready to be president when he picked Palin. Seriously people. Sarah Palin. If you can’t see the problem here then you shouldn’t vote.
And your Messiah chose a filthy little political whore like Biden? Seriously sir, if you can’t see the problem, YOU don’t deserve to vote.

Oct 20, 2008 - 6:06 pm 105. Lezident:

Did Obama register as an “international” student at US colleges? If so, why the coverup?

Because Obama was a Kenyan citizen until he was 21, (look it up, it’s on his web site) did he register at Occidental College and Columbia University as an international student….as a Kenyan?

It would have been his right to do this, as he inherited this citizenship from his father, and it would have been to his advantage because the applicant pool from Kenya would not have had as many people with his elite prep school education.

It would have been a smart move on his part at the time and there’s nothing inherently wrong with it. The US applicant pool is much more competitive for these elite colleges.

Has anyone discussed this thoroughly? I know the college records are all locked up…but wouldn’t Americans want to know if he applied to the schools and registered under his foreign citizenship rather than as an American?

What’s wrong with this, in my view, is his secrecy and covering up his true history. His educated, elite followers would no doubt understand and approve of his applying and registering for college as a Kenyan citizen, while others would wonder why he felt he had to keep it a secret and go to great lengths to cover it up.

Oct 20, 2008 - 6:21 pm 106. Ned Quatronni:

http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/

In Hawaii the “Certification of Live Birth” does not hold the same functionality as a real Birth Certificate or a Certificate of Live Birth, so right now…The Certification of Live Birth that Obama has posted on his site does not hold water and does not classify as a real Birth Certificate.

Sign the petition A.S.A.P.

Oct 20, 2008 - 6:32 pm 107. slip up:

“It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance at success too. I think that when you spread the wealth around it’s good for everybody.” lol Crapped in his own nest.

Many of us are now enjoying $2.69 a gallon gas.
Nancy Peloski, Harry Reid and Obamba will stop off shore oil production.
Their liberal tree hugging friends will make sure of that.
Gas will go to $6-$8 dollars a gallon.

McCain will try to keep these prices lower and maybe get a few Nuke plants up and running.

I predict by Nov. 4 election day,
gas will be 2 dollars a gallon,

McCain will win.

Oct 20, 2008 - 6:58 pm 108. naguabo79:

Peter the Sub guy: Apparently you have not heard from the Keating investigator (Mr. Bennett — a Democrat and Bill Clinton defender) that he recommended that McCain’s be taken from the Keating Five because he was not guilty of anything. However, since all the others were democrats, the democratic committee needed one republican in the group to make it a bi-partisan scandal. If you want to defend the Aboma-Ayers connection, go ahead, but the Keating connection is a smear. Besides none of the Keating Five (democrats included) even bombed American interests, building, and people. Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist and Obama should say when did he know and what he knew.

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:04 pm 109. naguabo79:

Sarah: Keep demanding your fair share. I think I may need to do the same. Maybe the Obama campaign can “spread” some of those 150 million they collected in September.

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:05 pm 110. AnonymousPatriot:

Joe-The-Plumber got his butt Roto-Rootered by the drive-by media which he won’t soon forget.

This should be an object lesson how, pardon the phrase, “the average Joe” is held in contempt within the inner-circle of the Leftist elites and their media thug accomplices.

I wonder what the media would have done if Joe-The-Plumber was instead Joe-The-Black-Doctor, or Josie-The-Engineer…

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:14 pm 111. Tcobb:

slip up
The dirty rotten secret about the liberals policies which have prevented us from utilized our own energy policies is this: when you have affordable personal transportation you can, in effect, vote with your feet. When the great court-mandated experiment of school busing was tried a great number of the guinea pigs fled to the suburbs, which enraged the social engineers to no end. They have not forgotten this. “Public transportation” goes wherever those in power decides it can go. That’s why the liberals love it so much, and that’s why they would like to have the price of gasoline go through the roof.

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:40 pm 112. Jeff Weimer:

God, I wish we’d get off this Quixotic birth certificate thing. I’m sure we’d all love to have a silver bullet (the Dems tried it with McCain, too), but this won’t wash. There’s plenty out there to discuss, this is really a waste of time.

Oh and to you trolls, just coming in here, calling us STOOOPID, and telling us not to vote. Not really a good argument. I’ve seen what passes at dKos and DU, and it doesn’t work so well here. I mean, seriously people, Sarah Palin told Big Oil (one of your favorite bugaboos) not once, but twice to sit down, shut up, they’re going to do it her way. So she’s not stupid, and not afraid. Oh wait, you thought TINA FEY was the real thing. I get it now….

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:49 pm 113. Someone75:

AnonymousPatriot:

Um, I think the liberals usually target blue collar people like Joe since they make up their broadest support base. But, by all means, keep reinventing facts to support your argument. What will we hear next? Rich, white men who endorse Obama have never been a friend of the GOP?

Besides – you should be blaming McCain for poor Joe being hounded by the media. McCain made him famous! Obama merely talked to him. If McCain hadn’t made 50% of his final debate performance about Joe, Joe would be going about his normal life. And who used who? McCain turned Joe, a nice, normal guy, into a narrative to exploit for political gain.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:04 pm 114. slip up:

114. Someone 75
McCain made him famous! Obama merely talked to him. If McCain hadn’t made 50% of his final debate performance about Joe, Joe would be going about his normal life. And who used who? McCain turned Joe, a nice, normal guy, into a narrative to exploit for political gain.
Yes he did, didn’t he?

It turned this entire race around.

Obama allowed a normal everyday white working JOE destroy his chance for glory and CHANGE of America. One slip up of his tongue let the rest of us hear his socialists views- I know you heard it also?

McCain now leads in most of the battleground states.

His “Joe the Plumber” comments will be discussed in Political Class 101 for the next 200 years. Obama will be forgotten,

Obama Who?

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:28 pm 115. Ned Quatronni:

Obama refuses to allow access to official sources (Honolulu law suit filed last weekend by Andy Martin to open Obama’s secret birth records). It is interesting that Obama is flying to Hawaii this coming friday. Fishy!

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:34 pm 116. AnonymousPatriot:

Someone75:

Reinventing facts? Wasn’t it BHO who talked to Joe first, which by default put Joe in the spotlight?

Joe-The-Plumber has simply become a metaphor for the regular blue-collar working man, whom, by the way, are in the middle class that the Dems claim to be fighting for.

My point was that if Joe-The-Plumber was other than a white male possible conservative voter, and had asked instead what was BHO’s favorite football team or some other benign question, this would have been a non-story from the beginning. But, OMG! Joe asked a simple direct question about BHO’s tax plan and BHO slipped up, giving America a glimpse of what BHO really thinks.

But, as is customary, dissent from the Left is enthusiastically and ruthlessly crushed.

Oct 20, 2008 - 9:58 pm 117. vivo:

95. Peter the Sub Guy:

““82. vivo:
Polls show that 90% of voters are already committed. 10% won’t make a difference.”

When the polls say there is only a 2% difference between candidates (or in some cases, less), then 10% makes a LOT of difference.”

You’re right on that count.
What I’m saying is that all the static about the exaggerated Ayers relationship and overblown voting fraud is not going to change 10% of the vote. And that 10% most probably has already made up their mind but want to look self-important by not explaining their vote. Politics is a waste of money. Only advertisers gain, right?

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:04 pm 118. vivo:

116. Ned Quatronni:

“Obama refuses to allow access to official sources (Honolulu law suit filed last weekend by Andy Martin to open Obama’s secret birth records). It is interesting that Obama is flying to Hawaii this coming friday. Fishy!”

Yeah, he needs to prop the Manger for a photo op . . .

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:07 pm 119. Jeff:

What people don’t understand is why some of us are so against the current Republican ticket, but we have an obligation to fight against history of ever being repeated again. Many of us out here are not fighting for the Democratic campaign but are fighting against an ideology.

1) An ideology that completely mirrors the ideology of this past 8 years.
2) An ideology that recognizes the few while completely disregarding the masses.
3) An ideology that believes in taking military action against Iraq, an incident that is completely unrelated to 9/11, without solidifying our claims beforehand. In the present, we have found no evidence of weapons of mass destructions or a tie to Osama Bin Laden. The devastation of this war has cost us over 4,000 of our brave troops and counting, over 1/2 trillion dollars of taxpayer’s money and counting, and over 1 million Iraqi lives unrelated to the terrorists or insurgency.

Cost of the Iraq War — http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

4) An ideology that still believes that the Iraq War is the right war on terrorism when the Afghanistan War should had been the right war on terrorism, where Osama Bin Laden actually was until he slipped into the mountains and into Pakistan’s territory now. The Iraq War also diverted our attention away from the Afghanistan War. We now have extended our resources in two separate places and have heightened our risk to our troops, our expenses, and creating another dilemma that will take quite some time to finalize. The Iraq War will not go away overnight and it is now our obligation to see it all the way through for God knows how many more years. This has also been the most unpopular war in the eyes of the world’s communities.
5) An ideology that believes that we are at our safest state since 9/11, when a recent terrorist plot was still trying to enter Great Britain’s airports with liquid explosives heading directly to us, but thankfully the plot was foiled. While in Afghanistan, the terrorists are regrouping and strengthening and we have recently suffered another high casualty to our troops yet again within this past month. We currently have the least amount of alliances in the world’s communities due to this unpopular Iraq War. True national securities are the ties that bind us to our world’s communities and the ties that bind them to us.
6) An ideology that vetted one of the most inexperience VP ticket in history, from foreign policies to national defense. If God forbids that anything happens to this President if elected and is stricken with illness, this VP will be running the country. For a more compelling look at Sarah Palin’s VP readiness, please look at these links below —

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loUHRv3ipLE

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/09/30/palin_gaffes/

7) An ideology that believes in “the fundamentals of our economy are strong” while we are facing the highest mortgage foreclosure crisis, high unemployment rate, and the largest collapse of our financial infrastructures since The Great Depression of 1929.

This is an ideology that many of us in America are against. Whether this ideology is in the Republican or Democratic ticket is not the main issue but the fact is that America does not want to fall into another 4 more years of devastation. We cannot afford this anymore.

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:17 pm 120. Truth First:

Obama will bring justice to America

Obama will bring social, moral and economic justice to America. America has never known true justice and Obama will change that.

America clearly needs economic justice now more than ever.

Obama is following the Africa principal of UJIMA which is collective work and responsibility. That is, to build and maintain our community together to make our sister and brothers’ problems our problems and to solve them together.

I have helped Senator Obama get in touch with his Africa heritage and as President, he will rule with the wisdom of his African forefathers.

http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com

Oct 20, 2008 - 10:26 pm 121. Sheila:

“Obama is following the Africa principal of UJIMA which is collective work and responsibility”

Yeah, and that’s really working in Africa….So does this mean Africa no longer needs our charity? I seriously doubt that.

(Though I shouldn’t really complain. I quit giving to Africa a long time ago. Now I only give to charities that help people from my country – for instance cancer research, hospices…you get my drift)

Oct 21, 2008 - 1:24 am 122. ted c:

Think for a moment about the Obama campaign slogan of “Change We Need.” Intended to create that warm feeling of “hope” and yearning for “change” and maybe gives certain pundits chills up their legs but, beyond that, there isn’t much meaning in it. The Obama campaign spins it in a way that means it’s a break from the Bush Administration but it really has a deeper meaning that Joe the Plumber has helped all of us see better.

“Change” actually refers to Joe’s Change–the change he may earn if he buys that plumbing business. It referes to your change, and any change you may earn from your hard earned work. Heaven forbid that ObamaBiden let you “keep the change.”

“We Need” means exactly what it says. “We Need” your change. We need your change to take as we wish, distribute to whomever and whatever we want, and don’t ask us any questions about it. Because we stand for hope.

Instead of a vacuous and lofty mantra of a new political movement, see “Change We Need” as a crushing socialist hand doing a shakedown on guys like Joe and other great Americans working their butts off to make this country work.

Change We Need ought to be the American taxpayer’s slogan this year. We need our change–so we can send our kids to college and pay for houses. We need our change–not someone elses change and we certainly don’t need these two clowns to help us get more and realize our dreams.

Turn the “Change” slogan on the Obama Campaign. You are the one who needs to keep the change–Obama wants it to send to Ol’Jeremiah who needs some coin in the plate or to Tony Rezko who may need a new pillow in the clink.

Vote for Joe’s Change. Help him keep some of it.

Oct 21, 2008 - 2:54 am 123. Ed Wallis:

On the related matter of questionable media integrity in this race:

http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html

Oct 21, 2008 - 2:58 am 124. Sioux Lady:

I wonder . . . Since Obama has not been “vetted” like Sarah, Joe and Cindy, is he now or will he become vulnerable to blackmail?

Oct 21, 2008 - 4:02 am 125. Peter the Sub Guy:

“108. naguabo79:
Peter the Sub guy: Apparently you have not heard from the Keating investigator (Mr. Bennett — a Democrat and Bill Clinton defender) that he recommended that McCain’s be taken from the Keating Five because he was not guilty of anything.”

Actually, I had heard that, and was trying to pass on the knowledge to the more ignorant in the crowd of posters last night. But thank you anyway.

Oct 21, 2008 - 4:30 am 126. Christina Dunigan:

Do you think maybe the MSM has a double standard?

Martin Haskell runs an illegal, unlicensed business in Ohio. Do you see the MSM getting their knickers in a twist about this?

And — shades of “He’s not JOE! He’s SAM!” — Haskell’s name isn’t even Martin. It’s WILLIAM Martin MUDD Haskell. Yes, his name is Mudd.

Gosh, why do you think William Mudd the business owner gets a pass by the media, while Sam/Joe the man who dreams of owning a business gets crucified?

William Martin Mudd Haskell is the guy who popularized Partial Birth Abortion. His unlicensed business is an abortion clinic.

Oct 21, 2008 - 4:46 am 127. Gary Ogletree:

Obama’s plans and positions are meaningless. He will say anything to get elected. He let slip his real agenda to Joe the Plumber. His background tells the rest of the story.

Oct 21, 2008 - 4:55 am 128. tom:

Don’t look now but McCain has a “I’m Joe the Plumber” video submittal contest on his website. Looks like he’ll be showing the nation many Joes!!!

http://www.johnmccain.com/joe/

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:15 am 129. Jarhead:

The National Review Online had a good article today about tax policy.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDMzMzRlOTJhNjdmYWI1YWY3OTg3MTVjNjZiNjI5MjU=

I’ll say it again – we are over the top of the curve with income and corporate taxes. Raising taxes the way Obama plans will result in reduced tax revenue after people have a couple of years to adjust their behavior. Along with increased regulation, it will completely destroy our international competitiveness.

Smug liberals will feel good about getting the rich, unfortunately all of us will be suffering.

I had a conversation with my boss yesterday. Her husband makes good money. If Obama wins, she says she’ll seriously consider not working for a while. Why deal with the long commute, day care expenses, gas prices, etc…, if most of what she earns above her husband’s income will be confiscated by the government? That is how the Laffer Curve works, people become disinterested in work, therefore there is less income in the economy to tax. If she and many thousands like her opt out of the workforce, they also spend less on goods and services such as day care – in other words, unemployment grows and the economy shrinks.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:11 am 130. gael:

The guy psting “small business” data is full of horse manure. Readt it yourself: http://www.sba.gov/idc/groups/public/documents/sba_homepage/serv_sstd_tablepdf.pdf These are the tables used by the Small BusAdmin to determine whether your business constitutes a “small business” On the first page alone, most of the business have an income cap of 750,000 dollars.. For you Obamunists who hate truth, that’s actually a bigger number than 250,000 dollars. In fact, you wull find as you go throught the official (nonObamabastardized) data, that MOST small businesses have incomes Well OVER 250,000. SO, take your lies and go find a more ignorant audience. And, bloggers, please, please don’t believe the ObamaLies – get the facts for yourself. Educate yourself and DOn’t get sucked in to the BlatherFog!!

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:20 am 131. MIKE THE AMERICAN:

Palin, the Alaskan Independence Barbie, calls Obama a ’socialist?’

Palin’s Alaskan ‘Windfall Profits Tax’ is not only a ‘re-distribution of wealth’
(or ’spreading the wealth around’ for all you Joe six-pack plumbers),
it is textbook socialism. In fact, the Alaskan system of Government and
it’s financial sources (85% derived from Oil Companies) have more in
common with the former USSR than the USA.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:23 am 132. I am Joe « Psssst! Over Here!:

[...] Posted by jb on 2008.10.21 It sure is curious how the media is more interested in Joe the Plumber’s background than in Obama’s. [...]

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:41 am 133. Jarhead:

gael: It is simple math. If I have a small company with 5 employees who average $40k in salary (more like $55k with tax and benefits), I better bring in at least $450k in revenue just to make enough to live on.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:52 am 134. Peter the Sub Guy:

“131. MIKE THE AMERICAN:
Palin’s Alaskan ‘Windfall Profits Tax’ is not only a ‘re-distribution of wealth’
(or ’spreading the wealth around’ for all you Joe six-pack plumbers),
it is textbook socialism. In fact, the Alaskan system of Government and
it’s financial sources (85% derived from Oil Companies) have more in
common with the former USSR than the USA.”

Something I learned during a recent vacation on Alaska…
The state of Alaska owns all the oil extracted from the state, including off-shore. The oil companies pay the state for the oil they extract and that money is placed in a fund that gest distributed to all legal citizens of Alaska from date of birth to date of death in the form of a yearly check. On average, every Alaskan citizen receives apx $1000 to $1600 per year in oil revenue and do not pay state income tax.

This is NOT a socialist redistribution of wealth. This is citizens receiving money for the selling of their (mutual) property, otherwise known as ‘capitalism.’ (Can you say “Capitalism,” kiddies?)

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:58 am 135. Jim Baker:

Don’t try to do math with liberals. They can’t do math. That is why they are liberals.
I see the Obama trolls have managed to move the conversation away from Obama’s collectivist response to Joe’s question. Good job gang. Obama will award the job of keeper of the seal, soon! Keep it up!

Oct 21, 2008 - 7:34 am 136. gael:

Jarhead, Obama doesn’t care how much you have to spend to make the money you make. (Read 77 ALan Burton) That is NOT the point! The point of Obama’s plan is to tax businesses making more than 250K (income before expenses!) He wants small business to feel artificially safe, and to envy those making more – it’s classic Dem demagoguery – they bank much success based on class envy tactics. The problem is the government’s definition considers “small businesses” those making much more than 250K and there are gadzillions of them! And many of them started as sub250K businesses. So, the relevant question is: why build your business, create jobs, cover your employees’ health etc – just to get knocked down? If you’re sub250K, you don’t really get a break either. Enforced helth care, new regulations, payroll tax hits – have you READ his plan for SS refunds?! You are putting a lot of faith in the WORDS of a guy who hasn’t shown any hstory of being able (or desiring) to make a financial plan work for you. Exactly what in his past makes you believe that a) he has ever exercised fiscal responsibility? (read up on his Chicago Annenburg Challenge experience in which he lost 150million dollars) and what in his history makes you believe that he cares one bit for those who work at small business? Did you not SEE the crucifixion of JoeThePlumber? BO has associated with wealthy influential subverts his entire life. He lives the good life, and not through any small business experience. His wife lives the very good life and not through any experience in small business. He doesn’t respect the fundamental workings of a capitalist govenrment; he has worked his whole life to disrupt and undermine that society. Read his ACORN efforts, and the mission handbook of ACORN – it is a mission to destry capitalism and force socialism. Read about his Woods Fund efforts to undermine academic achievement with social engineering and reeducation efforts. So, first, your belief in ANYTHING he says is naive. and Second, his numbers don’t add up – even if he were to do as he promises.

Oct 21, 2008 - 7:43 am 137. AnonymousPatriot:

The Obama/Biden “Hope and Change” platform distills down to Americans having to ask each other “I hope you have some change.”

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:02 am 138. harry:

As I stated in previous posts no one mentions how much in taxes permits licenses and fees a businessman pays on Fed State and City levels. While wage slaves pay their portion a businessman must contribute some of it also (ss and medicare). Before a business earns a dime he has paid plenty in taxes and is responsible for all expenses. Then when the business earns income he is then taxed for personal income. How can Obama ask a businessman who is solely responsible for all liability to fork over more of his earnings to those who have zero liability? Obama is totaly out of touch with the Joe’s out there. Obama is saying become a success and we’ll punish you more for it. Anyone who is a businessman or making 250K a year has a good reason to not vote for Obama.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:04 am 139. Franklin:

“Something I learned during a recent vacation on Alaska…
The state of Alaska owns all the oil extracted from the state, including off-shore. The oil companies pay the state for the oil they extract and that money is placed in a fund that gest distributed to all legal citizens of Alaska from date of birth to date of death in the form of a yearly check. On average, every Alaskan citizen receives apx $1000 to $1600 per year in oil revenue and do not pay state income tax.”

LOL.. so Alaska is a sovereign country? That’s a hoot!!!

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:17 am 140. tanstaafl:

This should be an object lesson how, pardon the phrase, “the average Joe” is held in contempt within the inner-circle of the Leftist elites and their media thug accomplices.

It’s a true fact. Blue state élitist snobs sincerely believe they should be running the show (see esp. NYTimes many years’ assault on this President and that newspaper’s relentless efforts to undermine Presidential power)

There seems to be a driving assumption that we the peeps out here in the hinterlands are, essentially, not worth the wattage to light up a single bulb, intellectually.

It galls them that the Representative Republic devised by the Founders is still in tact enough (barely) that our individual votes still in some way influence the outcome of an election. (ACORN continues to work hard to make that barely surviving principle inoperative.)

We really shouldn’t have the privilege, you know, to have any effect at all on the highly superior worldview and wisdom of blue state élites. (both Biden and Obama give off this vibe, their paeans to the “little guy” are destroyed in their reactions to Joe the Plumber)

While some traditionally conservative writers and thinkers (”thinker” is used loosely) such as Christopher Buckley and Peggy Noonan seem to have come on board for the élitist view of the universe.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:41 am 141. Jarhead:

No, Alaska is a sovereign state, just like the other 49. It’s called Federalism.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:52 am 142. Peter the Sub Guy:

“139. Franklin:
LOL.. so Alaska is a sovereign country? That’s a hoot!!!”

Hey, Frank, where in my entire explaination did I say anything about Alaska being a sovereign country?

From Wikipedia…
The Alaska Permanent Fund is a constitutionally established fund, managed by a semi-independent corporation, established by Alaska in 1976. Shortly after the oil from Alaska’s North Slope began flowing to market through the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System, the Permanent Fund was created by an amendment to the constitution of the U.S. state of Alaska to be an investment for at least 25% of proceeds from some minerals [such as oil and gas] sale or royalties. The Fund does not include either property taxes on oil company property nor income tax from oil corporations, so the minimum 25% deposit is closer to 11% if those sources were also considered. The Alaska Permanent Fund sets aside a certain share of oil revenues to continue benefiting current and all future generations of Alaskans. Many citizens also believed that the legislature too quickly and too inefficiently spent the $900 million bonus the state got in 1969 after leasing out the oil fields. This belief spurred a desire to put some oil revenues out of direct political control.

Though the payouts have varied from the smallest ($331.29 per person in 1984) and the largest ($3,269.00 per person in 2008 when a one-time $1,200 Alaska Resource Rebate was added to the dividend amount), they usually vary between $600 and $1,500 ($900 and $1,800 when adjusted for 2005 dollars). Although the principal or corpus of the Fund is constitutionally protected, income earned by the Fund, like nearly all State income, is constitutionally defined as general fund money [subject to legislative appropriation for any purpose ... but, in practical political terms, the public tolerates spending Fund income mostly only for 'inflation-proofing' and for paying dividends].

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:05 am 143. gael:

I believe that I’d like very much to have these two people running my Treasury: the first wants to “line item veto” the pork AND expose the pork chasers! The other runs her current government at a profit – and returns the proceeds to the people!!! How can you possible argue with that!!??

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:35 am 144. Jeff:

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat but a true Independent who believes in facts and really believes in learning the lessons of our history.

So here is a simple fact for America -
1) During Ronald Reagan’s Presidency of 2 terms, between 1981-1989, we were at our economic best in a quarter of a century. We made the right choice in these 8 years as a country.
2) During George H. W. Bush Sr.’s Presidency of 1 term, between 1989-1993, we were at our economic worst in a quarter of a century. We made a huge mistake as a country but corrected it by keeping him in office for only 1 term.
3) During Bill Clinton’s Presidency of 2 terms, between 1993-2001, we were again at our economic best in a quarter of a century, even better than Reagan’s era. We made the right choice again in these 8 years as a country, despite his personal scandals.
4) Now, during George W. Bush Jr.’s Presidency of 2 terms, between 2001-this coming January 20, 2009; we have been at our economic worst in a quarter of a century, even worst than Bush Sr.’s era. We really made a huge mistake as a country on this one by not realizing that the apple really doesn’t fall very far from the tree. Yet we chose this apple again the second time around.

Now, really let this simple fact sink in America and take your time to think carefully this time around about how you want the direction of this country to go.

We made history with Reagan. We then made a mistake with Bush Sr. but corrected history by allowing him to only serve 1 term. We then made history again with Clinton, despite his personal scandals. Now, we have made 2 mistakes with Bush Jr. by allowing him to serve not once, but twice. So my last question to America is, guess which candidate shares the interests of both, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.? I will let America answer this one. We are much, much smarter as a country to want to make history rather than make mistakes and to suffer yet again from our own mistakes by not using objectivity as our first and foremost agenda.

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:52 am 145. Peter the Sub Guy:

“144. Jeff:
We made history with Reagan. We then made a mistake with Bush Sr. but corrected history by allowing him to only serve 1 term. We then made history again with Clinton, despite his personal scandals. Now, we have made 2 mistakes with Bush Jr. by allowing him to serve not once, but twice. So my last question to America is, guess which candidate shares the interests of both, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.? I will let America answer this one. We are much, much smarter as a country to want to make history rather than make mistakes and to suffer yet again from our own mistakes by not using objectivity as our first and foremost agenda.”

The fault with your so-called facts are they are very subjective. They deal solely with the economy, which is a small part of how this country runs. I, as a member of the US military, was much better off during the Bush II years than I was during the Clinton debacle when he gutted our military and then demanded we do twice as much with a third the resources. I also feel we are safer as a nation under Bush then we were with Clinton and almost certainly would have been under a President Gore or President Kerry. 9/11’s planning was done under the Clinton administration and followed progressively worse attacks almost yearly since 1995. If Gore were in office in 2001, I am almost certain 9/11 would have been followed quickly after by something even worse. And worse still . And worse still. So don’t tell me Bush was a mistake that needed correcting. Clinton was the mistake that should never have happened.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:09 am 146. Jeff Weimer:

To #119. Jeff –

Unfortunately, you seem so wrapped up in what to vote AGAINST, you’re blinding yourself to what you’re voting for. Just because McCain is a republican doesn’t mean he’s the sme as bush. As I recall, he shoved the Surge down bush’s throat at a time the President was ready to abandon Iraq. the Surge proved the right thing. We can debate over and over the the righteousness of the initial invasion, I think it was an option better not taken, but the fact is, we broke it, we own it. We have to do the right thing NOW so the sacrifice of those 4000 will have not been in vain, and we retain respect. You may say we’re less respected now than before, and that is quite possibly true. But we have never been “liked”. We must finish what we started or the respect will fall. We will be thought of, maybe not openly, as a country that does not follow through with our promises and runs When the going gets tough. We’ve been there before, and we had 9/11 as a result.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:28 am 147. Someone75:

AnonymousPatriot:

Try to follow me here: Yes. Obama talked to the guy first. But (and here’s where it gets tricky for you to understand), Obama did not elevate him into the national spotlight. Obama talks to thousands of people everyday that don’t attract attention. It was McCain who found Joe’s story to be a convenient narrative that they could exploit at the debate. I’m not sure how I can make it any simpler than that. Maybe a picture?

slip up:

I don’t think you even understand what socialism is. I know it’s a popular buzz word for conservatives to throw around when all other substantive attacks have failed, but it’s a complex ideology that is larger than “spreading the wealth around.”

As for the battleground states, you must not have looked at the polls in the last few weeks. McCain’s own campaign manager admits that they’re losing New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and others. To suggest that McCain is leading in anything other than the reddest or red states is willful self-deception.

McCain’s “Joe the plumber” comments will be discussed in high school politics 101 as a remarkably simplistic attempt that failed almost before it had begun. How can Obama be forgotten? He’s the first viable black presidential candidate. That virtually ensures his place in history, even if he loses.

slip up, did you even bother to turn on your brain before you wrote these comments? Seriously. I can make up “facts” just as well as you, but I choose not to.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:36 am 148. Peter the Sub Guy:

“147. Someone75:
I don’t think you even understand what socialism is. I know it’s a popular buzz word for conservatives to throw around when all other substantive attacks have failed, but it’s a complex ideology that is larger than “spreading the wealth around.””

Also from Wikipedia…
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society. Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.

Sorry, but I like my capitalism just as it is. No socialized medicine where you need to make an appointment with your doctor 2 years in advance. No Nanny state where the income tax is at 100% but everyine is guaranteed a home and a job no matter how lazy you are, because there are a LOT of lazy people in this country, and I only see a lot more becoming lazy if Obama wins.

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:02 am 149. Peter the Sub Guy:

“147. Someone75:
As for the battleground states, you must not have looked at the polls in the last few weeks.”

Whereas more recent polls show them starting to lean back toward McCain. That’s why they are called battleground states. And the only poll that means anything will be the one on Nov 4.

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:13 am 150. Ed Wallis:

NOTE to newer posters and visitors to Pajamas Media…

“Jeff” (as seen in #119, 144)…has posted this and 1 or 2 other ditties over and over, in the course of the last 3 months or so.

There’s no reason – as his points have been debunked, refuted or simply mocked – other than to spam. I tend to ignore those I regard as trolls, I only wanted to inform you of this “true independent” who…ahem…”curiously” posts 99.99% anti-McCain.

________________________

…and note to “92. SarahBiggestFan”:

Your devaluing Obama’s involvement with domestic terrorist Ayers from at least 1995 on in the Woods Fund and Chicago Annenberg Challenge highlights your desire to avoid looking at facts, but does explain why you disregard the fact the McCain was fully exonerated of involvment in the Keating stuff you mention (other than, for transparency here, being criticized for poor judgment in attending one meeting).

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:50 am 151. Ed Wallis:

“Someone75 #147″ –

Your snide remark about socialism reminded me of the amusing pront page article in the Wall Street Journal a few Fridays ago:

They interviewed a self-avowed Socialist who, in effect, said Obama is not a real socialist compared to them.

WELL! Compared to the hammer-and-sickle, red-flag-waving socialists and Communists (there’s no such thing as a “small c” Communist, folks…), Obama must just be your middle-of-the-road, moderate kinda guy, eh…?!!? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

Creating such a *S*T*R*A*W*M*A*N* comparison does not invalidate the policies of Obama or his stated intentions.

You, “Someone75,” like Obama and his other folowers, are a CHARLATAN.

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:58 am 152. Someone75:

Peter the Sub Guy:

Nice. Wikipedia is your source? I didn’t realize I was in the presence of an “expert.” You win, sir. And for the record, I don’t support socialism or anything like it. Even if you have the ability to get a vague understanding of the concept via Wikipedia (that most trusted of sources), many of your friends don’t. It’s an easy pejorative (a word expressing disapproval – also from wikipedia) for you people to remember. I’m a firm believer in the flawed system that we know as capitalism.

And how convenient for you that polls don’t matter! People like you site polling info all the time as “evidence”, but when they’re not in your favor, you disregard them as useless. Be a real American – admit you’re losing the election like a man.

Ed Wallis:

Ah – the name calling starts. If I am a charlatan, you sir, are a MOUNTEBANK (go ahead and look it up – I’ll wait). If you bothered to listen to Obama, you’d understand that my argument was not that of a straw man. Rather, it exposes your misconception of the democratic party in general. It actually makes me wonder if you even understand your own party. Maybe you should look it up on . . . Wikipedia!

Oct 21, 2008 - 1:15 pm 153. Ed Wallis:

He’s your boy, S75. (counting in 3…2…1…”That’s raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist!)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_bkXNfvGHvk

Oct 21, 2008 - 2:01 pm 154. myth buster:

Re: McCain graduated 894th out of 899

It takes much more than academic skill to graduate from the Naval Academy. 1200 students are admitted every year, but only about 900 graduate. They have to endure 6 weeks of hyper-intense physical and mental training before the Freshman year even begins. You have to keep your cool and complete the task at hand even if you feel like your bladder is going to explode. They make you get up at 5am to work out even when you’re dead tired because it’s Saturday and you’ve been enduring 18 hours of this torment every day since Monday. It doesn’t get much easier after Plebe Summer ends, either. The entire Freshman year is brutal, and the upperclassmen don’t care whose kid you are, either. In fact, they’ll be harder on you if you think you’re something special. At Harvard, they try to keep you there. At the Naval Academy, the staff doesn’t care if you quit, and the upperclassman want you to quit. What they don’t want is graduates- officers- who aren’t 100% committed to being leaders.

BTW, Obama would never have been able to graduate from the Naval Academy, last in his class or otherwise, because they would have expelled him as soon as a single drug test came back positive. If you test positive for any illegal drugs, they expel you, no questions asked, no matter how well you do in class, how good of a leader you are, or how great you do on the Physical Readiness Test. You could be the President’s kid, and they’d still expel you.

Oct 21, 2008 - 5:26 pm 155. Peter the Sub Guy:

“152. Someone75:
Nice. Wikipedia is your source?”

When it’s quick and easy, yes it is. Why? Anything wrong with the definition? Please, elaborate…

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:10 pm 156. Peter the Sub Guy:

“152. Someone75:
And how convenient for you that polls don’t matter! People like you site polling info all the time as “evidence”, but when they’re not in your favor, you disregard them as useless. Be a real American – admit you’re losing the election like a man”

Please, cite where I have cited (correct spelling) any specific polling data. I have mentioned where polls are going up or going down, but I reiterate, the ONLY poll that counts is the one that happens on Nov 4.

Anyone disagree?

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:13 pm 157. Peter the Sub Guy:

“153. Ed Wallis:
He’s your boy, S75.”

OMG, Ed, that was perfect. Of course, the Left will never understand it.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:19 pm 158. Peter the Sub Guy:

“152. Someone75:
Nice. Wikipedia is your source?”

If you prefer, I could look it up in Webster’s, but I’m pretty sure it would be pretty much the same.

From Merriam-Webster’s:
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

See. Pretty much the same. Like I thought.

From the Encyclopedia Brittanica:
Socialism – social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

Still pretty much the same. I don’t see the problem here.

Anyone else?

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:27 pm 159. Peter the Sub Guy:

“152. Someone75:
People like you site polling info all the time as “evidence”, but when they’re not in your favor, you disregard them as useless.”

Funny how all the Lib/Dems were saying the same thing when McCain was leading just a week or so ago, huh?

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:30 pm 160. Someone75:

Myth Buster:

Exactly how long do you think drugs stay in one’s system? It’s actually kind of cute that you think drugs taint your system forever. I bet that’s what you learned in your tiny home town that taught you physical toughness was better than mental strength.

There’s no excuse for intellectual weakness. I wouldn’t expect you to understand, but the majority of us who bothered to go to college do. McCain’s schooling was pretty pathetic. Be a man – admit your candidate was a terrible student.

Ed Wallis:

Racism? Way to elevate the discourse.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:33 pm 161. Jeff Weimer:

re #154:

And just HOW can we compare McCain’s and Palin’s record against Obama’s and Biden’s? Well, we can do Biden’s – he was caught plagiarizing. And caught lying about his academic record in the famous “I’m smarter than you” exchange. Obama’s? Don’t know, nobody talks about Columbia. Not even The One.

We’ve had this grade thing before – Kerry was “sooo smart” compared to “Idiot” Bush – and Kerry’s grades were WORSE.

Get over it, trolls. Academic records from college RARELY mean a thing. Didn’t Bill Gates drop out of college or something…?

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:36 pm 162. Peter the Sub Guy:

One last comment for the night.
I thought this was kind of interesting, and more back on topic of the vetting Joe has gotten and Obama has not…

Dan Rather Acknowledges Obamunist Media Bias
Even Dan Rather — the dinosaur media propagandist who went so far over the top in his attempts to smear W just prior to the 2004 election that he managed to destroy his own career — acknowledges the overwhelming media bias in favor of the Marxist punk Obamunists call The One.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:38 pm 163. nick:

nothing about Joe is protected information

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:05 pm 164. Stephen:

In regard to paying higher taxes. Have any of these morons finished 5th grade? I mean that part about the “Tea Party in the Boston Harbor” Talk about un-American. When did paying more become a part of the of being Patriotic? To fully fell that perhaps he Obama could have started with service to his country in the peace corp or the Marin Corp or some real form of giving of one’s selflessly to his country and fellow beings. Re-distribution of wealth is nothing more than socialism raped in communism. I Pray that America will a wake before this miss guided fool gains any more ground.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:53 pm 165. Wahine:

Here’s a sampling of Barry’s writing from college, taken from a poem titled “Underground:”

Under water grottos, caverns

Filled with apes

That eat figs.

Stepping on the figs

That the apes

Eat, they crunch

The apes howl, bare

Their fangs, dance…

—by Barry Obama

************

Over at AmericanThinker – where I found this poem, Thos. Cashill has written on his study of Ayers’ and Obama’s writings. He claims Ayers wrote a good portion of Obama’s first memoir.

He makes a pretty good case. Judging from the writing sample above, I’m thinking he’s probably right.

And it may explain why they’ve got his other work under lock and key.

Oct 21, 2008 - 11:43 pm 166. Anonymous:

nick – EVERYTHING about “Joe the Plumber” is protected info. Just because others choose to use him to make a political point doesn’t mean he’s fair game. There’s nothing more chilling to democratic participation than knowing that your life, with all its warts, will be put under a microscope if you talk to a candidate or your representative.

We must be free to talk to our candidates without fear of backlash. The press really stepped in it this time. One liberal editor quit in protest of blatant media bias. CNN is suddenly showing some positive pieces for McCain/Palin. When interviewing “Joe”, they are being very solicitous, now. Even they caught on that they’d crossed the line and had treated a private citizen like a public one.

I’m glad it wasn’t me. I’ve plenty of mistakes in my background. I bet you do, too.

Oct 22, 2008 - 3:13 am 167. Peter the Sub Guy:

Orson Scott Card, noted sci-fi author and both a Democrat and news journalist, has a very good article on-line that appeared in a NC newspaper. I think it should be required reading for ALL newspaper reporters, editors, TV reporters, news producers, and every citizen of the US.

The URL is http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:28 am 168. Peter the Sub Guy:

“163. nick:
nothing about Joe is protected information”

Then please, nick, tell us all who you are so we can go delving into your background, associates, work history, credit history, school transcripts, late library book notices, parking tickets, etc. Obviously if Joe’s life is an open book, then yours must be as well!

Oct 22, 2008 - 8:29 am 169. Someone75:

Wahine:

Ayers wrote Obama’s books? Of all the baseless assertions, that takes the cake. I can do it too. Watch:

Conservative scholar Nick Jackson reports that McCain actually collaborated in the bombing of the USS Cole. There is clear evidence to suggest that McCain targeted his own country and is in league with the terrorists. Also, Palin is a practicing Muslim extremist who secretly wants to wage a Jihad against Joe the Plumber.

It’s so easy to make up rumors and facts. I should have been doing this a long time ago. Thanks, Wahine.

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:10 pm 170. Peter the Sub Guy:

I notice nick isn’t too enthusiastic about letting us look into his history and background.

You think perhaps Joe the Plumber might have had the same privacy expectations?

Oct 22, 2008 - 5:30 pm 171. Ed Wallis:

“Someone75″,

you are pretty good at making a fool of yourself.

Try googling : obama autobiography dreams ayers.

There’s a particularly compelling argument over at American Thinker, but I’m not interested in wasting my time on convincing you…just plug that into your googling.

Oct 23, 2008 - 12:46 am 172. Sam:

visit this site to discover the hidden truth:
http://www.fightmccain.com/Home

Oct 23, 2008 - 9:03 am 173. Someone75:

Ed Wallis:

Did you realize that the author of that article has a (gasp!) PhD in American Studies? He’s a (shudder) INTELLECTUAL. It’s funny how people like you hate academics, until it’s convenient for you to like them. Once again, you reveal your hypocrisy.

But, I give you props for reading an actual article. Most of the people around here think Wikipedia is some sort of fountain of wisdom. I’m guessing you might have even had a little college! Good for you!

Oct 23, 2008 - 12:23 pm 174. Marc Malone:

Someone75 – Please tone it down. You’re going out of your way to be abrasive again. Why do you do that?

We don’t hate academics. We have disdain for academics without common sense or moral grounding. We hate Ivory tower elitism. Many of those here are rather intelligent, intellectually curious, well-read, and well-educated. This meme from the left that we’re Neanderthals is ridiculous propoganda, and you’re buying it. You shouldn’t. You know better.

Oct 23, 2008 - 12:53 pm 175. Ed Wallis:

Marc #174, THANKS for responding with such tempered words – I wouldn’t have been so generous. S75 and others have no intention of “toning it down,” as that would require them to actually base arguments in fact and apply reason. Further, they seem to live on “projection.”
(a rhetorical p.s.): There’s no way to know to what “hypocrisy” he refers…perhaps his post is a deconstructionist attempt at online Scat Singing?

Oct 23, 2008 - 1:48 pm 176. Marc Malone:

Ed Wallis – Someone75 CAN be a bit rational at times. He’s loyal opposition, not really a troll. Sometimes, however, he DOES act like a troll. He likes to get reactions out of people. Or maybe, he comes here after reading some left-wing tripe and carries the attitude forward. If we deal with him in calm voices, I think we can get better out of him.

Oct 23, 2008 - 9:01 pm 177. Lemur:

“Joe the Plumber”–representative of middle class?
I’d be THRILLED if I earned even $125,000 in a year!!!! (note: this is in response to the mathematician who pointed out the $250,000 amount was for families) How many of you earn that much? And even if he bought the business and expanded it, how much expansion would be required before HIS personal income (NOT the business’ gross) reached $125,000?

That is a wealthy person, and the way to stay wealthy is grip firmly against any tax changes–spending money if necessary to defeat them.

Nov 2, 2008 - 2:37 pm

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