Pajamas Media

Email This to a Friend

Landslide Victory for McCain — In the Military

Now let's see whether their absentee ballots will be counted.

October 26, 2008 - by Greyhawk

Page 1 of 2 Next ->

Surprise — at least one poll shows a huge McCain lead: “[Senator John] McCain, R-Ariz., handily defeated Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., 68 percent to 23 percent in a voluntary survey of 4,293 active-duty, National Guard, and reserve subscribers and former subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times, and Air Force Times.” Or perhaps not so surprising: there’s a history involved here.

In 1864 the nation was nearing the end of the Civil War — but some wanted it ended sooner than others. Democrats offered a platform declaring that it was “the sense of the American people, that after four years of failure to restore the Union by the experiment of war, during which . . . the Constitution itself has been disregarded in every part, . . . justice, humanity, liberty, and the public welfare demand that immediate efforts be made for a cessation of hostilities.” In short: end the war now.

Their candidate was General (still on active duty throughout the presidential campaign) George McClellan. He assured voters that restoration of the Union was a worthwhile endeavor, but hinted that other goals had since corrupted the purpose of the war he himself had once waged and nearly lost. “The Union is the one condition of peace,” McClellan wrote. “We ask no more.” He likewise pledged to restore America’s standing in the eyes of the world — in his words, “resume our commanding position among the nations of the earth.”

And along with all that, Democrats supported the troops:

Resolved, that the sympathy of the Democratic Party is heartily and earnestly extended to the soldiery of our army and sailors of our navy, who are and have been in the field and on the sea under the flag of our country, and, in the events of its attaining power, they will receive all the care, protection, and regard that the brave soldiers and sailors of the republic have so nobly earned.

Which was a good thing because America was trying something brand new that year: “absentee voting” — intended to ensure that those troops would be able to cast their ballots, too. But while Republicans claimed that voting was “a right vested in the individual which could adequately be exercised through written media, regardless of location,” Democrats countered that votes must be cast in person: “Like marriages and wills, votes required competent witnesses, defined by the Democrats as fellow citizens with shared concerns and responsibilities. Army officers appointed by the federal government could not fill this role. These conservative Democratic views of the mid-19th century seem alien to our thinking today, as absentee voting has since become a firmly established practice.”

So as Sherman marched on Atlanta a different sort of war was waged in the North:

Wisconsin was the first to permit their soldiers to vote in the field through absentee ballots. California, Connecticut, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio, and Pennsylvania all followed suit. However, Illinois, Indiana, and New Jersey, which all had Democratic-controlled state legislatures, did not pass legislation allowing soldiers to vote in the field.

But Secretary of War Edwin Stanton ensured the troops were given absentee ballots or granted leave to vote in person, and Lincoln himself asked General Sherman to allow Indiana soldiers to return home to vote. Lincoln was reelected with 55 percent of the popular vote and an Electoral College landslide, and while not decisive in the election, he received over 70 percent of the military vote.

Page 1 of 2 Next ->

"Greyhawk" is a two-tour veteran of Iraq who blogs (since 2003) at the Mudville Gazette and MilBlogs. He created the MilBlogs Ring and MilBlogs TV.

Pajamas Media appreciates your comments that abide by the following guidelines:

1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a necessary quote or is relevant to the comment.

2. Stay on topic.

3. Disagree, but avoid ad hominem attacks.

4. Threats are treated seriously and reported to law enforcement.

5. Spam and advertising are not permitted in the comments area.

The clause regarding "hate speech" has been deleted because readers criticized it as being too loosely defined. We agreed.

These guidelines are very general and cannot cover every possible situation. Please don't assume that Pajamas Media management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment. We reserve the right to filter or delete comments or to deny posting privileges entirely at our discretion. If you feel your comment was filtered inappropriately, please email us at story@pajamasmedia.com.

171 Comments

1. Marc Malone:

This not counting military votes is deeply imbedded in the Dem psyche, as liberals hate the military abd all its symbolism. They’re forced to give lip-service to honoring the military, but their actions always show otherwise.

I remember spitting and “baby-killers”. I also know how little military pay increase under Dems, and how the military gets cut under Dems. Carter. Clinton. I saw no difference… and Carter had served! I don’t remember if Clinton had. I believe not.

Oct 26, 2008 - 1:09 am 2. vivo:

There is good military and bad military.
They will support the hawks because they mean $$$ to them. We need essential military forces, but we need more spending and quality in education. We need more diplomacy, commerce and intelligentsia. Bombing is only for clear targets. Get your priorities straight.

Oct 26, 2008 - 1:55 am 3. JFM:

They will support the hawks because they mean $$$ to them. We need essential military forces, but we need more spending and quality in education

I agree. Cut federal funding for Acorn and NPR.

Oct 26, 2008 - 2:15 am 4. JFM:

but we need more spending and quality in education

Excuse me if I laugh. Improving education is not necessarily correlated to how much monney you spend on it: there is a lot of countries who get better results while spending a fraction of what America spends. You improe education by making math classes being math classes (ie places where you lean about Pythagoras theorem, trigonmetry and equations) instead of sensibility training in disguise and history classes being history clases not indoctrination classes.

Make clear that teachers who use their classes as indoctrination vehicles on tax payer dime will be firede and forced to refund their salaries.

Get rid of the high school Ward Churchills and things will improve even before you replace them by real teachers.

Oct 26, 2008 - 2:27 am 5. JL:

Vivo.

How do you need more spending in education? What specifically should the spending go to? How will that spending increase quality?

What exactly do you mean by quality in education?

What do you mean, when you say you need more diplomacy?

Who are the Hawks? Is it bad to be a Hawk and why?

How will you get more diplomacy by decreasing military spending?

How will decreasing military spending translate to more commerce?

What is intelligentsia? Why is it important? What function does it have?

To what end do you need more diplomacy, commerce and intelligentsia?

Oct 26, 2008 - 2:56 am 6. Paul B.:

Last
I heard the Fairfax problem is resolved. Bears keeping an eye on though.

Oct 26, 2008 - 3:33 am 7. Ed Wallis:

TO “Paul B” – I have not heard that the ballots WERE accepted yet.

TO ALL – “vivo” does not need to be fed. Please ignore trolls.

Oct 26, 2008 - 4:04 am 8. C Smith:

>we need more spending and quality in education
Homeschooling is on the rise for a reason. The federal government is as effective, and necessary, in managing education as it is in managing mortgages.

Oct 26, 2008 - 4:11 am 9. RE:

“we need more spending and quality in education”

Nonsense. Education spending is a sham, it’s end result is the selfish enrichment of academic class. Were this not true, ‘educators’ would not be so adamantly opposed to producing results, merit based pay, and accountability. The system is corrupt.

You can be sure that any increase in education spending will be followed with an increase in administrators salaries. If you want quality, fire at least half the administrators, disband the NEA, and invest the saving in teaching basic reading, writing, and arithmetic.

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:33 am 10. R a Z o R:

—– C O M M A N D E R * I N * C H I E F ——
________________________________________________
———— J O H N * M c C A I N ————-
________________________________________________

John’s mettle and manhood has been tested .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o

. . . . . M A V E R I C K

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:44 am 11. Ex-fetus:

“but we need more spending and quality in education. We need more diplomacy, commerce and intelligentsia. Bombing is only for clear targets.”

Vivo, where is your evidence that spending more will provide quality in education? NO ONE else has ever been able to make that connection. Thousands have tried, but it seems that it exists only in the minds of those that will get that money.

More diplomacy? Why, what diplomacy there is now isn’t working, unless you consider it the Department of State’s job to create wars. In which case they are VERY good at it.
Commerce? I thought your boy was against NAFTA? Flip flopped again did he? Or are you just behind the curve?
Not sure what you mean by “intelligentsia”, so I googled it;

“Russian word for intellectuals engaged in politics, as were most reformers in nineteenth-century Russia. After the Russian Revolution, the word acquired a Leninist tinge, being used both of and by intellectual supporters of Lenin(ism). Mostly now used sarcastically.”

Why does America need more Russians that support Leninism?
I don’t understand that, maybe you could explain it to me.

Clear target is a very debateable term. To me Clear target would be anything in New York or Chicago. Add L.A. to that list also. I suspect you would be somewhat more restrictive in your targeting criteria.

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:46 am 12. SiouxLady:

Sorry, Ed Wallis, but I must seek enlightenment from vivo. “Intelligentsia” is defined as,”the people regarded as, or regarding themselves as, the educated or enlightened class.” Vivo, do you regard yourself as a member of this class? Alternatively, were you trying to say we need more “intelligence” such as is (supposed to be) provided by the CIA? Just asking . . .

Oct 26, 2008 - 7:04 am 13. Anonymous:

Here is the priority

Security.

The rest is up to the private sector.

Read the constitution again vivo and so called sue.

The military knows who is with them and who has hung them out to dry. The vote not being for obammy mammy proves that.

For those of you who are just so damn smart, try rereading that line again. It might just sink in.

Oct 26, 2008 - 7:32 am 14. Eric:

O/T but I want to sprinkle this everywhere especially in light of Biden’s interview with the FL reporter.

Important distinction that NEEDS to be made over and over again between now and Nov. 4.

When Obama talks about reducing taxes for 95% of working Americans he is only talking about income taxes. He is not talking about payroll taxes which is where the funding for new programs will come from.

The nationalized health care plan the Dems are salivating about is a 7% payroll tax, the new retirement plan to replace our 401k’s is a 5% payroll tax, and the wage insurance is a 1% payroll tax for a total new tax burden of 13%. Add that to the current 6% Social Security payroll tax and the 1% (or more) Medicare payroll tax and we’re looking at a payroll tax burden in excess of 20% which is not subject to the deductions the income tax is.

No one is exempt from payroll taxes so Obama is simply lying.

Oct 26, 2008 - 7:45 am 15. nick:

1 military people are blind thats how they get themselves killed in a stupid war

2 military did not protect us on 9-11

3 military could have prevents 9-11 if their weak attacks into afghanistan had hit Osama

4 military have no economic problems, they are mercernaries

5 military would have voted truman out over Macarthurt, shwos how out of touch with society they are!

Oct 26, 2008 - 8:12 am 16. Fred:

The Jackasses want to reduce the military budget by 25%, during a time of war and terrorism. This sends the wrong signal to our enemies, and you can be sure they will exploit it. The jihadis and their state sponsors know exactly what they are going to get in an Obama administration, which is the opportunity to ramp up their demands and their capabilities. In the end, since 9/11 did not wake up Americans, I am afraid it will take an American city being nuked before the people finally “get it.”

The likely event that I think Joe Biden was referring to, when he opened his permanently big mouth, was the nuking of Israel by Iran (estimates by the CIA have now moved up Iran’s date when it will have the hydrogen bomb to February of 2009), and the United States will neither stop it nor exact retribution for it. That’s why President Obama’s poll numbers will sink like a stone, and why Biden was asking the uber Leftists of Seattle to hang in for the President. He’s prepping the faithful.

Only a quarter of the military will vote for Obama because the military is acutely aware of how Obama dislikes them and their values. It’s a real culture clash.

Oct 26, 2008 - 8:52 am 17. Jeff Weimer:

Anonymous –

I am career military, and your statement is insulting. We do not support the “hawks” because it means more money. That is a base accusation that reveals your instincts, not ours. Not everything is selfish self-interest. The surge is a prime example. We are probably the most reluctant to go to war, but once the decision is made, we want the support of our elected leaders. The democrats have not kept faith, undermining the mission at every turn. all the while “supporting” the troops with calls to surrender. That mindset was infectious, President Bush was even looking for a way out of Iraq with a bare modicum of honor. McCain pushed the lonely fight of the surge, ultimately convincing the President. Now, we’re well on our way to total victory in only 18 short months. We’re with McCain because he stands with us.

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:34 am 18. shock and awe:

nick:
1 you’re an idiot.

2 you’re an idiot.

3 you’re an idiot.

4 you’re an idiot.

5 you’re an idiot.

Better to keep silent and let no one in on your woefull condition, than to write a post that displays your ignorance for all the world to see. Now go back to the kids table the adults are trying to have a conversation here.

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:35 am 19. mwl:

Failure to count military votes is extremely dangerous. The American Revolution was begun by armed patriots who were angry that their voices were not heard in London. Do we really want to repeat the same mistake, and not allow servicemember’s voices to be heard in Washington?

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:43 am 20. Ex-fetus:

5 military would have voted truman out over Macarthurt, shwos how out of touch with society they are!

Speaking of out of touch! Who is Macarthurt and when did he run for President and what country was that again.
The scary thing about Ohhhh… BAAMA! is the people that support him.
I knew closing down the mental institutions would have detrimental long term effects. Ohhhh…..BAAMA! will re-open them, no doubt. Needs some place to store reporters until the re-education camps are built.

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:50 am 21. BC:

Military people in general tend to be conservative, like dealing with familiar things, are highly patriotic to the point of blind-eye-ness, and are much more comfortable being given specific tasks to do rather than contemplating the big picture. McCain is a known quantity, and is likely not to change much, if any, in regards to Bush’s foreign military policy to date. That regular military folk would prefer this to alleged mystery man Obama (Google can be your friend, folks) is no surprise.

I would be more curious about who non-regular military people, the ones in special forces and planning (aka the ones in the know), are rooting for. I know that more than a few high level federal employees are rooting for Obama for pretty obvious reasons (for the non-clueless).

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:00 am 22. nlcatter:

you morons cant refute a single thing that poster put up but “idiot”

morons!

i worked in Norad I know the watch crews did their job, the CINCs are the ones screwed up like the 9-11 report showed

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:14 am 23. nlcatter:

even I know the poster meant 5 star general.

how can you GOPers be that dumb
oh I forgot !

FUBAR started as a MILITARY term

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:15 am 24. Bill Perron:

Nick, thanks for proving that even the ignorant can have a voice in our society.

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:27 am 25. livingamongthehoodwinked:

Greetings fellow USN retirees

I just hope the military votes are counted.
Where are the ‘blue helmets’ when we need them?

Not surprised that Russia reports that our media is in the tank for Obama. Takes one to know one. Not surprised OBiden camp shuts down FL interview when tough questions are asked. Not surprised Joe’s privacy is invaded. Obama and company (media) are shooting the messengers.

Obama is quite the Pied Piper. I am amazed at how others have fallen for it. I just don’t get it.

Don’t give up, try to persuade the ones in your circle and press on! Make your vote count.

Don’t miss Mark Levin’s post today.

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:33 am 26. Paige:

It’s too bad 90% of those votes are getting tossed in VA.

Yet, Ohio has to allow ACORN votes.

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:43 am 27. History Geek:

Congratulations on a generally very fine use of history in a topic of great moment. The only question is which Democratic president with firm spine were you referencing regarding our entrance into the Vietnamese War? JFK had made a hash out of policy and was seriously considering a troop reduction. LBJ, as the documents show clearly was not all that eager to commit ground forces to the war.

BTW: to the commenter who suggested that Democrats are always opposed to the military voting, please recall that theh Republicans were deeply and firmly opposed to the “Soldier Vote” in 1944 as they feared correctly that the troops would go for FDR and a feared fourth term.

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:52 am 28. fred:

So, how would one account for the support that Obonga has in the military, especially some of the higher-ups? Are these career officers positioning themselves to not be passed over for promotion after the changeover in January?

Not all military officers are honorable people. Most are, but there are those who are just opportunists and know how to play politics. Just sayin’…

Signed,

A U.S. Army veteran and a bitter clinger to guns and religion

Oct 26, 2008 - 10:53 am 29. livingamongthehoodwinked:

fred: you ask “how would one account for the support that Obonga has in the military?”

A few years ago in the Middle East, I ran in to ‘weekenders’ (reservists) who never seemed to wholeheartedly want to serve full time and national guard who fundamentally did not want to deploy. I am not sure if things have changed. Are they Peacetime warriors? Perhaps, but it is difficult and a waste of time to judge another’s heart or try to guess why someone feels the way they do.

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:28 am 30. myth buster:

1 out of every nine officers is a Democrat, so statistically some are going to support Obama.

As for you nick:
1. Military people are more educated, dedicated, and downright smarter than their peers.
2. The military couldn’t protect us on 9/11 because the air bases were too far from the hijacked planes to intercept them in time, plus, even they didn’t know what was going on. Some of the pilots thought Russia had launched nukes at us.
3. That is nonsensical. I don’t even know what attacks you’re talking about before 9/11.
4. That is personally insulting and grossly inaccurate. Military personnel are paid less than skilled labor and a lot less than mercenaries. Plus, you can’t just decide to quit if you don’t like the pay or find the job too risky. No matter what, you can’t leave until your contract is up. We are loyal to the Constitution and the Republic, not our paychecks. Further, claiming that military people have no economic problems is on its face absurd. A junior enlisted soldier with a family could be barely above the poverty line.
5. General of the Armies Douglas MacArthur never ran for President, and to mock the name of such a great and loyal officer is demeaning. Perhaps you were thinking of General of the Armies Dwight Eisenhower, who succeeded Truman as President.

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:50 am 31. The Historian:

IS THERE A PATH TO VICTORY FOR MCCAIN?

Yes, and it is explained at this link:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/10/is-there-path-to-victory-for-mccain.html

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:02 pm 32. Old Squid:

Dear Vivo and Nick.

I am a former member of that military that you have opined about in such an eloquent fashion. While I may not agree with you, I would never deign to squelch your transformation into informed adults. One of the best ways for young people to advance themselves is to read material that challenges their understanding.

For you, I recommend the following link: http://www.lorencollins.net/freecomic/

Good Luck!

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:24 pm 33. Marc Malone:

nick and nlcatter just proved my point about the contempt Libs have for the military. Just read their posts, then compare them to the obvious Pubs. You never hear a negative word about the military from Pubs. Never. All the Lib rants have no meaning, because they are so clearly contemptuous of the military.

For the record, the military support for Obama this year is higher than most years. That’s because the blacks support him nearly 100%, and blacks make up a large chunk of the military. Yes, 1 of 9 officers are Dems. How many of those are black? Most?

I’m glad that the Fairfax situation may be clearing up, and I hope the military is watching it closely. What a blow to morale it would be if the fighting troops’ votes were disqualified because their on the front lines. Just a horrible thought.

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:44 pm 34. nlcatter:

once you learn to type/spell I can address your questions.

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:47 pm 35. nlcatter:

her questions were not hard , they were stupid

Commander in Chief Obama – get used to it

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:48 pm 36. nlcatter:

more educated? than peers? as if that is hard?

because their JOB requires and pays for it – I know one AF major who spent 7 years FULL time study and then 1 year naval war college

a major pushing paper work getting 90K and retirement of half base after 20? that is MORE than any civilian job
unless a GOP ceao ofa bank ripping off taxpayers.

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:51 pm 37. nlcatter:

mercenaries – reelist bonus after signing bonsues

if they were PATRIOTIC they would do it for 3 hots and cot

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:53 pm 38. nlcatter:

mac though he was better than civilians

like you grunts do

he learned differeent and so will you

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:54 pm 39. nlcatter:

did you read how I work at NORAD?

do you think I just strolled in one day?
DUH! malone is a MORON

my family has more service time than Mccains!

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:55 pm 40. nlcatter:

“”The military couldn’t protect us on 9/11 because the air bases were too far “”

??????????

what the hell do you think I have been posting for years!!!!!!

and who put the planes there ? the MILITARY!!

USAF STRATCOM knew there was no LAUNCH

you corporals are like your namesakes – Corporal Hitler and klinger

CiC Obama – get used to it

Oct 26, 2008 - 12:57 pm 41. syn:

“We need essential military forces, but we need more spending and quality in education. We need more diplomacy, commerce and intelligentsia”

This is an irrational comment. Out of all the nations in the world, per capita America spends the most oneducation yet America is rank one of the lowest in intelligence. In other words, the problem is that we are spending ridiculous amounts of money making our children stupid.

We don’t need money, we need educated teachers teaching rather than Union Thugs with a Ivy Tower degree operating as political activists for Serfdom.

It is no wonder those who serve in the military are by far the largest educated class in America; they must learn while the civilians remain clueless(see Nick for example)

Oct 26, 2008 - 1:23 pm 42. Jeff Weimer:

nlcatter, what you’ve been posting for years is that you are the smartest one in the room and we should all just shut up because we are morons and we obviously don’t know what we’re talking about.

Tough. You don’t have to agree, but you need to be more respectful. But you’re plainly not interested in spirited debate, just shouting down anyone who disagrees with you. If you brought pertinent facts to these posts, we might actually give you a little respect.

Oct 26, 2008 - 1:26 pm 43. Mack:

nlcatter: says “i worked in Norad” (ò¿ó)
yea maybe as a janitor.

As far as 9/11, that was being planned and designed on Clinton’s watch fool.

Get your head out of that liberal/Marxist bubble and stop drinking that damn kool-aid, it’s turning your brain to mush. (ò¿ó)

Oct 26, 2008 - 1:35 pm 44. AlexinCT:

nclatter,

Thanks for proving what kind of scum people like you are. It must take some real balls to demean the people that give you the very right to prove how stupid you are to the world every time you open your mouth or put your words to any kind of medium. Remember that the military takes an oath to protect the Constitution and the country, not the guy in the WH. And the current guy you champion sure looks like his agenda is to hurt both the Constitution and the country…

Oct 26, 2008 - 1:41 pm 45. Greyhawk:

Kudos to History Geek for introducing the 1944 vote into the discussion. I’d have addressed that in the piece but to do it justice would have required twice the space.

The WWII US Military was an anomaly in our nation’s history – large and demographically similar to the nation as a whole. There was bipartisan opposition (and support) for a voting act that would have simplified the enormously complex problem of ensuring each and every service member on battlefields around the world got their chance to vote. Valid arguments of federal encroachment on State’s rights were raised in opposition, but also often masked other motives ranging from purely political (Republicans feared Roosevelt controlled all information flow to the troops and would receive their blind obedience) to unimaginably vile (southern Democrats’ desire to maintain Jim Crow laws).

Still, more than a few military members voted that year (50 percent of military personnel requested ballots and 30 percent succeeded in casting ballots) even with the associated logistical problems. While the military vote might have tipped New Jersey from Republican to Democrat, Roosevelt was reelected in an electoral landslide, and neither the Senate or House composition changed appreciably. I’m not sure many military members (well aware of the logistics involved) were very much outraged over the outcome of the voting effort or the election.

But I like this quote:

“Attitudes of service members show as wide a variety of opinions as those expressed by their congressional representatives. A naval officer in the Pacific wrote a letter to Newsweek in which he stated the majority of Sailors on his cruiser showed little interest in voting. However, many planned to run for office themselves upon their return. This prompted the officer to write “I am certain that no one but a veteran–probably those who have seen active service–will hold any job after the war, from Constable to President.”"

More here http://www.vote.caltech.edu/media/documents/wps/vtp_wp53.pdf and here http://patriot.net/~eastlnd2/sv.htm

Oct 26, 2008 - 2:19 pm 46. thegr8_1:

We let felons and illegal immigrants fall through the cracks to vote and not our military. What a joke military votes should count double for serving our country. I already spread my wealth around if these morons in Congress and running for office want to spread the wealth around let them pull out their checkbooks and donate to the U S Treasury if they are not too stupid to overdraw their accounts.

Oct 26, 2008 - 3:31 pm 47. Fred:

I don’t believe “nlclatter” is a veteran. It’s just b.s. to try to elevate her shouting. Even liberal military members don’t want to see their nation lose a war, and support and defend the mission while it is still ongoing. This enemy we are fighting has been at it for 1,400 years. It is the longest surviving totalitarian ideology. Yes, Islam is an ideology – a cult, not a religion. It has outlived the Communist states and its soldiers are more brave than the Communists were. They believe in death they go right to heaven as martyrs. Communists need political officers embedded in their units pointing a pistol or a machine gun at their backs to commit to suicide missions. That’s because Communists believe that death is THE END. Muslims believe martyrdom in battle is the gateway to the 72 virgins.

Islamic jihad has, over fourteen centuries, conservatively estimated has killed over 270 million human beings. And the butcher’s bill is still climbing. The consequences of losing this war are unthinkable. And yet our policy elites propose to do just that, because so many do not understand this enemy and his perseverance and determination. They take the long view of history. Our people have ADD and short-term memories.

Oct 26, 2008 - 4:00 pm 48. jean:

I doubt that the military ballots will be counted, because the majority are not for Senator Obama. Remember several months ago at a rally, Senator Obama told Senator McCain to back off, that McCain did not know who is was messing with, that he(Senator Obama) was going to win this election. With ACORN help, the press, counting illegal votes and not counting votes, with threats to people in St. Louis, Mo. getting angry at reports who are only doing their jobs, those are good indications that he plans to do just that.

Oct 26, 2008 - 4:09 pm 49. first history:

As usual, the details are in the fine print. The Military Times article also said about its survey:

The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services. . . [it] is a snapshot of careerists . . .

So while the professional military class may overwhelming support McCain, the Obama campaign has been making inroads with the “. . nearly 60% of active-duty military members between the ages of 18 and 29, . . . an opportunity to attract young voters, many of them married with families,” according to today’s LA Times.
.

Oct 26, 2008 - 4:55 pm 50. Truth First:

Very soon Barack Obama will be your new President. This is a reality you cannot alter or escape from. It is fact. It is history. It is justice for the world.

Many of you have seen the light and have accepted the truth. And we thank you for your support and aid in electing Barack Obama.

To those who have rejected the truth you have no reason to fear Barack Obama. He is wise and just and he will follow the principals followed by his African forefathers. Barack Obama is the son of Kings and Queens who started human civilization thousands of years ago. Barack Obama remembers his heritage and his obligations to the Truth, Justice and the Future.

Barack Obama understands what is wrong and what needs to be done. Barack Obama has intelligence and vision that has lasted for over a millennium. Barack Obama was born with the appropriate ways of thinking, speaking, and acting and this will inspire you to be liberated for now there is no shackle which can keep you enslaved.

An African Proverb tell us: “Then command the servant, thusly: Make an Elder’s staff causing my son to stand in my place I will instruct him through the speech of the listeners and the counsels of the first of the ancients who listened to the divinities. In so doing troubles will be removed from the people.”

Barck Obama is here now to listen, to instruct and will lead you to your new life.

America will have a new start. A change to right itself. A change to correct its wrongs and address its sins. If you support change that will bring forth social and economic justice, you will stand with Barack Obama. Those who have been denied justice in America will get justice. Those will have been denied opportunity will be given opportunity. Those will falsely imprisoned will be freed. Those who are guilty will be punished. America’s salvation is at hand.

Those who have profited in America will play a role helping others. Justice requires equality and fairness and those who have the means will now be fair and will contribute to equality.

Stand with Barack Obama and you will be honored you for your work, sacrifice, dedication and devotion on behalf of all oppressed peoples.

Stand with Barack Obama and you will be honored and celebrated and remembered in song and praise and by your children.

http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com

Oct 26, 2008 - 5:03 pm 51. Sandra M:

Truth First: Obama campaigned for Odinga in Kenya a couple of years ago. When Odinga lost the election, he set off a killing spree, locking up 50 Black Christians in a church and setting it ablaze.

Obama has not thrown Odinga under the bus. Guess what that should tell us about a future under Obama?

Oct 26, 2008 - 5:24 pm 52. Jeff Weimer:

Whoa truth first, back slowly away from the kool-aid.

What happens to me if I don’t stand with Barack Obama?

And, no, it’s not history, the election is Nov 4. Save this hero worship for next week.

You probably wonder why we don’t think like you, don’t you?

Oct 26, 2008 - 5:46 pm 53. Jarhead:

“Commander in Chief Obama – get used to it” I will, as a civilian.

nlcatter – I’ve done my part, you want that jackass as CINC, you go enlist. If BO wins, watch enlistment and re-enlistment numbers drop through the basement.

Oct 26, 2008 - 5:47 pm 54. vivo:

12. SiouxLady:
” Alternatively, were you trying to say we need more “intelligence” such as is (supposed to be) provided by the CIA? Just asking . . .”

That’s exactly what I meant.

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:14 pm 55. vivo:

32. Old Squid:

” One of the best ways for young people to advance themselves is to read material that challenges their understanding. ”

You hit the wrong tree . . .

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:24 pm 56. vivo:

5. JL:

Excellent questions. I’ll answer them when I get some time. Thanks.

Oct 26, 2008 - 6:34 pm 57. juliet:

As a spouse of a disable veteran & a mother child who went to DOD, private & public schools; I saw the difference between the systems. The DOD & private schools cost about the same & the student out come was always higher ( even though) the food stamps ratio was a pretty even between lower enlistment & lower income civilians. Public schools alway seems to be failing & the only response is throw more money at public schools & they will improve. The same with BO he has more money thusly he will win.

I hope the military votes will be counted because because if the are not counted what the sense of fighting for your country. Just let the government throw money at the problem Don’t worry we can always print more. I guess I better keep my truck because it will take a truck bed full of worthless money just to buy groceries.

Oct 26, 2008 - 7:00 pm 58. john from cinncinati:

truth:Those who have profited in America will play a role helping others. Justice requires equality and fairness and those who have the means will now be fair and will contribute to equality.
(hope and change) ya,change, from my hand to yours?
sounds like taxes, i mean spreading the wealth. there is a old saying that the one who divides the pie usually saves the best for himself. i personally like the buffet style, you know, everyone helps themselves.
as far as human civilization being started in Africa not much of it is left in sub saharan Africa. Kenya is a real role model.
niclatter: you work for the airforce? i am surprised that the chairforce can hold itself up with all the downsizing they have been doing. the airforce reminds me of an anorexic girl who just keeps cutting calories.(understaffed and undermanned)these are the same people who sent nukes across America. the smart ones right?

Oct 26, 2008 - 8:02 pm 59. Landslide Victory for McCain — In the Military | PoliticsMuch.com:

[...] orginally posted at PajamasMedia.com. We claim no responsibility for this content. Please click on the link above to read and comment on [...]

Oct 26, 2008 - 8:10 pm 60. livingamongthehoodwinked:

Truth first – you gag me!
save your garbarge for the bottom dwellers

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:05 pm 61. livingamongthehoodwinked:

oops! I meant bottom – feeders

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:06 pm 62. Anti Greyhawk:

This was not a survey, it was a Fox run beauty content. As anyone with a brain knows, we in the military support Obama as much as other American’s, and will join decent people in putting him in the White House.

Oct 26, 2008 - 9:53 pm 63. vivo:

5. JL:

“How do you need more spending in education? What specifically should the spending go to? How will that spending increase quality?”

Before I answer all these questions, let me say that I’m not a Republican or Democrat, I’m a true Independent. I’m not also an expert on anything and I have more questions than answers, but I deal with common sense and I want a better world (notice I didn’t say “country”).

It is obvious that our educational system is shorthanded and imbalanced. Not only millions of children drop out of school, but the ones who graduate don’t make the grade, with the exception of some good and expensive private institutions. Some teachers salaries are good, but many are not. This discourages the employment of really good teachers. A lot of schools have inadequate classrooms, buildings, facilities, or simply not enough schools. Students need adequate and comfortable facilities. They spend years in the classroom. Spending per se will not increase quality in education. Better facilities, better teachers, better labs, programs, teachers discourage dropping out. It won’t eliminate it because parents and economics play a big role. Access to educational loans increases the probability of graduating more contributors to society. Hiring better educators who can review and upgrade the educational system at all levels. The list grows long, and here is where I need the help of experts.

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:00 pm 64. vivo:

5. JL:
What exactly do you mean by quality in education?

Quality in education is improved infrastructure, teachers who can teach, programs that enrich the students lives, subjects that expand the students minds, access to high-tech careers. Programs that nurture and encourage higher education, allowing more engineers, medical doctors, entrepreneurs, financiers, IT, etc.

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:14 pm 65. vivo:

5. JL:
“What do you mean, when you say you need more diplomacy?”

The USA has lost its edge in diplomacy, especially with “rogue” countries. Instead of violent war-like approaches, more diplomatic contacts are needed. Each international leader has its own agenda. Knowing what ticks him helps.

Take the example of Cuba. 50+ years and nothing has changed. Isolation has not done anything good for Cuba or the USA. The right approach is to open an embassy and consulate, allow commerce to flow with tourists and goods. With a diplomatic post open, some commercial attaches can be underground CIA agents. We’ve done it plenty of times. Intelligence flows and change can be influenced at the right pace. The Cubans will be glad to open their doors. They just don’t want criticism of their system. If the system works, it works. If it doesn’t, it’ll collapse. No need for invasions and raging speeches. Forget the Cuban right-wingers in Florida. Are they Americans or Cubans? After 48 years . . .

Take this with a cookie cutter to other countries. It’s worked in the past. I don’t know why we stopped.

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:34 pm 66. vivo:

5. JL:
“Who are the Hawks? Is it bad to be a Hawk and why?

How will you get more diplomacy by decreasing military spending?

How will decreasing military spending translate to more commerce?”

The Hawks are both Republican and Democrats who are being “influenced” by the industrial/military complex, the weapons manufacturers who create wars for profit.

Diplomacy is not dependent upon military spending. It’s part of the Department of State (Condolezza Rice now) and probably some agencies.

Decreasing military spending is translated to other commerce spending, like high-tech, manufacturing (lots of offshore mfg is owned by American corporations), tourism, movies, music, consultancies, green industries, alternative fuels, you name it.

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:48 pm 67. nick:

Obama NEVER campaigned for anyone in Kenya much less Odinga

keep spreading the lies, the public rejects lies
thats why Obama is on his way.

Oct 27, 2008 - 12:04 am 68. nick:

my family did NOT ahve more military service than mccains

mccain 1 – 40 mcacin 2 – 40
mccain 3 -22 = 102

my family 26 + 4 + 21 + 4 + 4 + 4
but 3 deaths while on active duty counts for something,

Oct 27, 2008 - 12:12 am 69. nlcatter:

since it was questioned -
i’ve worked for SAC, norad, stratcom, paccom, lantcon, spacecom, eucom, pentagon.
missile launch, missile warning, satellites, space defense, tencap.

Oct 27, 2008 - 12:14 am 70. rachel peepers:

If McCain/Palin win the election, it will not just be because many more soldiers will vote the McCain ticket, but also because there are many more white registered voters than black registered voters in the United States.

Obama and his 95% black support has made this a racist election. The whites realize this, which will result in many whites voting for McCain simply because the race has taken on such a racial conponent.

If McCain wins, the above is why.

Oct 27, 2008 - 12:38 am 71. Jarhead:

nlcatter – Sounds like you were a real chairborne warrior. With all that desk time, one would think you would have learned how to use spell check.

Oct 27, 2008 - 4:31 am 72. SilentWatcher:

Military votes will not be counted, I can assure you of that. Every presidential election, the men and women who defend this country are disenfranchised by the Democrats while illegals, dead people, dogs, cats, and young children are allowed to vote. Obama has indicated via ACORN that he will do whatever it takes to win, even steal the election ten fraudulent votes at a time.. Since he already plans to gut the military, he’ll have no problem gutting the votes of military personnel. Praemonitus, praemunitus.

Oct 27, 2008 - 4:39 am 73. Mark:

Nick, Truth First, what will you do when Obama looses? It sounds to me like you have your entire worldview invested into the support of one man who know nothing about. No medical history, no voting record to speak of, heck, we don’t even know who paid for him to attend Colombia University.
And yet you somehow expect us in the military to willingly turn off our brains and blindly support this empty suit?
Watch what happens if Obama wins. Retention will plummet as those who are able to will jump ship and vote with their feet, much like when Clinton took office in his first term (and we are still paying for that draft dodging idiot to this day in our less than optimal senior enlisted ranks).
I have less than 5 years left, myself, and will hang on until my 20 year mark, but at exactly 20 years, no days, no hours, no minutes, I WILL pull the retirement handle, should Obama somehow win this election.
I survived Clinton, I will survive Obama.
And should you somehow harbor any illusion that we active duty people aren’t watching this election closely, my friend, you are grossly mistaken. I think this informal poll result reflects this.

Oct 27, 2008 - 5:03 am 74. Peter the Sub Guy:

15. nick wrote:

1 military people are blind thats how they get themselves killed in a stupid war

2 military did not protect us on 9-11

3 military could have prevents 9-11 if their weak attacks into afghanistan had hit Osama

4 military have no economic problems, they are mercernaries

5 military would have voted truman out over Macarthurt, shwos how out of touch with society they are!

Peter replies:

1: The military provides a better eye care policy than moat civilian insurance, and many military positions require 20/20 eyesight in order to qualify for them. Eyesight ofen has nothing to do with whether or not a soldier (or Marine, sailor or airman) is killed, so that remark was rather idiotic.

2: If the FBI and CIA had done their job and shared intel instead of holding it close to the vest, 9/11 MIGHT have been avoided. Either way, the military was not tasked with protecting the nation against civilian aircraft in the circumstances that existed on that morning, so that remark was rather idiotic.

3: Hey, nick, did you know exactly where Osama was every moment of every day? Neither did the US military. And besides, it was Clinton who authorized only the shooting of occasional T-LAMS against empty camps when Osama would rattle his saber, so blam the Dems if anyone. Either way, that remark was rather idiotic.

4: The military is authorized by the Contitution of the United States (Section 8). There are no mercinaries in the US Military. You want mercinaries, go look up the classified ads in Guns for Hire magazine. Either way, that remark was rather idiotic.

5: Relieving MacArthur of his command was among the least politically popular decisions in presidential history. Truman’s approval ratings plummeted, and he faced calls for his impeachment from, among others.

Sounds to me like many CIVILIANS didn’t like Truman over MacArthur, so I have no clue where you think you get your facts. Try reading a book or two before you open your mouth. (Or in this case, type with your fingers.) As President Abraham Lincoln said, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

Oct 27, 2008 - 5:34 am 75. Mack:

nlcatter: says “i’ve worked for SAC, norad, stratcom, paccom, lantcon, spacecom, eucom, pentagon.
missile launch, missile warning, satellites, space defense, tencap”.

This requires a psychiatrist evaluation and screening, your mental instability and erratic behavior proves that you’re just another psycho from Koz, DU or Huffpo that’s seen to many movies.

By the way have you taken your meds today? (ò¿ó)

Oct 27, 2008 - 5:54 am 76. justaworkinstiff:

After reading this blog and the wild claims in some of the postings with it I thought I might share this little tid bit.
I spend a fair amount of time on several miltary bases doing contract work. All are in the middle of the country and one has a significant portion of its’ perrsonel in Iraq. Folks, these people are fed up with multiple deployments and extended deployments and the Republican brand is badly damaged. The old line officers and career soldiers may be voting McCain (though I have my doubts) but I think it is more than safe to say the enlisted personel are voting Obama in huge numbers.
Just fair warning to you all.

Oct 27, 2008 - 6:01 am 77. Kaitian:

SAC / STRATCOM – Air Force / Offutt AFB
NORAD – Air Force / Colorado Springs
USPACOM – Air Force / Salt Lake, Hawaii
USLANTCOM – Multibranch / Norfolk, VA
EUCOM – Multibranch / Stuttgart, Germany
AMCOM – Army / Redstone Arsenal
BMEWS – Air Force / Thule AB/Clear AB/RAF Fylingdales
There’s others he listed that were just too generic.

For a guy who likes to brag about the number of places he’s been, he sure likes to demonstrate that he has an aptitude for either making up crap or being the most hated person to work with forcing him to transfer everywhere that ends in “Command” even between branches.

Oct 27, 2008 - 6:15 am 78. Just who will the Military Vote For? « Gathering of Eagles: NY:

[...] Milblogger Greyhawk puts it in a historical perspective. No Comments Leave a Commenttrackback addressYou must log in to post a comment. [...]

Oct 27, 2008 - 7:06 am 79. Greyhawk:

justaworkinstiff says: “I spend a fair amount of time on several miltary bases doing contract work. All are in the middle of the country and one has a significant portion of its’ perrsonel in Iraq. Folks, these people are fed up with multiple deployments and extended deployments and the Republican brand is badly damaged. The old line officers and career soldiers may be voting McCain (though I have my doubts) but I think it is more than safe to say the enlisted personel are voting Obama in huge numbers.”

I think it’s safe to say Obama’s message resonates with younger voters in general – and with younger military voters. Of those I predict half will vote, and those who do will provide a 60/40 Obama/McCain split. (Just an experienced guess.) And I think military issues won’t be the number one factor in their decision – they’ll base their votes on the same issues that all Americans will. (And like most Americans, on what they’ve learned of those issues from watching television and reading headlines, and what their friends tell them about what they saw on television and reading headlines…)

But – assuming Obama wins – they’re in for an experience that comes to all military members who serve under multiple CinCs. For short we can call it “the rude awakening”.

Promises of “less war more benefits” are attractive. But Senator Obama has already spelled out his plan: reduce (not withdraw all) troops in Iraq (on television this is referred to as “end the war”), and increase troops in Afghanistan. McCain might phrase things differently, but that’s his plan, too.

Regardless of who wins the White House, either the wars intensify (which will be very good for the economy if all else fails) or not – the enemy gets a vote in that. In the latter (and I believe unlikely) case, a new generation will get to live the dream described in Kiplings “Tommy“. If the former, at least under Obama the troops will get to see TV News reports saluting their sacrifice, recounting all the great stuff they’re accomplishing, and explaining to the folks back home how high their morale is as they march off to war.

Other than that last bit, same under McCain.

Oct 27, 2008 - 7:24 am 80. nlcatter:

greyhawk post – and imbedded said it best

Oct 27, 2008 - 7:54 am 81. Donna:

Jarhead: A good friend of mine is a Marine Vietnam vet whose eldest son enlisted after 9/11 and completed 2 tours in Iraq. Last week, he told me that he would discourage his youngest son from applying to the service academies. He said, very bitterly, “Members of my family have fought in every American war since the Revolution and our thanks is to be scorned and insulted and called rednecks and racists and thugs by people who think their pampered darlings are too good for the military. Screw it, I’ve had enough. If there is another 9/11, let the people in Manhattan and LA and San Francisco defend themselves next time. I want some one else’s kids to fight for a change. My family has done our part.”

I can’t say I blame him one bit. Keep on disrespecting the military, leftist fools, keep on thinking you can sneer at them and disenfrancise them and one day soon you’ll find out they won’t be there to defend you. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if a President Obama has to do what the liberal idiots have been afraid Bush would do for 8 years – reinstate the draft.

Although, like the Vietnam years, I’m sure the Dems would offer plenty of deferments to rich Harvard brats while making sure Joe the Plumber’s kids have to go. ‘Cause they’re the “party of the people,” dontcha know?

Oct 27, 2008 - 7:59 am 82. JimCap:

What I don’t get however, is why active military personnel are donating to Obama, six times as much as they are to McCain.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html

Why would they do that?

I keep on hearing how our troops support McCain over Obama. But not when it comes to supporting their campaigns. Obama is getting considerably more money from our troops. What does this mean?

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:02 am 83. nlcatter:

kaitan cant get it right!

1 I was at Carswell AFB 7th bomb wing for SAC not
Offutt –

2 I was at STRATCOM Offutt AFB for something else.

3 at CMAFB and CMAFS

4 PACCOM at CAmp SMITH not salt lake

USLANTCOM – you got it right!

EUCOM – no, the place is called PATCH barracks

i didnt list AMCOM or BMEWS
But I used to talk to RAF Fylingdales!

you left off pentagon,

and who said I was stationed at those places?

NOT ME! loL

you are too ignorant to know, and my misison is to piss off FUBAR mcain campaign

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:02 am 84. Kaitian:

nlcatter,

You associated yourself with these commands when you were not. It’s like saying a man who is stationed with the 144th Fighter Wing but he says he serves in the First Air Force. To the extent, it’s true but the concept is suggesting that he is personally involved with the command hierarchy of the 1AF.

You were insinuating you were involved in those command structures when you know you’re not. Those are where those organizations are headquartered at. EUCOM is headquartered at Stuttgart which I got right and so is Patch Barracks.

Are you trying to say that you serve in the Air Force, Army, and Marines all in one? Afterall, you’ve shown me Air Force bases, 1 Marine camp, and 1 Army barrack.

Now AMCOM and BMEWS were listed because you stated “missile launch” which the Army deals with under AMCOM, not the Air Force. BMEWS is the Ballistic Missile Early Warning System, which guess what, deals with Missile Early Warnings.

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:34 am 85. Greyhawk:

“Obama is getting considerably more money from our troops. What does this mean?”

Given certain issues regarding reliability of data collected in online fundraising (from recent reports one can donate under the name Mickey Mouse and claim occupation as Navy SEAL if one desires) I’d say “nothing”.

But regardless of source, I don’t think anyone will dispute Obama’s lead in fundraising across the board. Six hundred million and rising – I’m impressed.

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:37 am 86. Peter the Sub Guy:

76. justaworkinstiff opined:
The old line officers and career soldiers may be voting McCain (though I have my doubts) but I think it is more than safe to say the enlisted personel are voting Obama in huge numbers.
Just fair warning to you all.

Peter writes:
I spent several years in the military on the Atlantic coast and now work as a military contractor, and my experience is 80% of the people I talk to are voting McCain.

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:59 am 87. Peter the Sub Guy:

67. nick claims:
Obama NEVER campaigned for anyone in Kenya much less Odinga
keep spreading the lies, the public rejects lies
thats why Obama is on his way.

Peter states: nick needs to get his news from independant sources and not the MSM who has been covering for The One since day one. Obama campaigned for Odinga and everyone knows it, they just won’t talk about it. Go ahead, look it up. I’ll wait.

Oct 27, 2008 - 9:14 am 88. Peter the Sub Guy:

70. rachel peepers claims:
If McCain/Palin win the election, it will not just be because many more soldiers will vote the McCain ticket, but also because there are many more white registered voters than black registered voters in the United States.

Peter asks: So, like the Obama campaign, you’re bringing race into it? (You notice the McCain campaign has not.) What does it say when 95% of African-Americans polled say they will vote for Obama purely based on the color of his skin? What does it say when a radio reporter surveys people in Harlem, attributing every McCain policy to Obama and every one of them say they back those opinions 100% (to the point of supporting Palin as VP just because ‘Obama’ picked her)?

Oct 27, 2008 - 9:17 am 89. johnbrown:

It’s interesting that the “other goals” which McClellan hinted at included the abolition of slavery, which the Democratic Party opposed but which the Republican Party had firmly committed itself to. (It was abolished by the 13th amendment shortly after Lincoln’s victory.)
At that time the other “civilized nations” of the world strongly endorsed the Union cause and, above all, abolition. Nowadays those same nations opposed the removal of Saddam Hussein and the destruction of his genocidal regime. That’s progress, isn’t it?

Oct 27, 2008 - 9:36 am 90. Oreo MacCheez:

To all of you idiots who think money = education, it does not. It meanseven more money in the hands of the despicable teachers unions. American public education is garbage. This has been true for a long time, since the rise of these unions. Want a treat? Find a high school twefth grade math text from the 1930’s. Most college graduates couldn’t handle it today, much less the cozzened products of the highly leftist racketeers who profess to be educators today. Public unions have ruined the abilities of most children, but as long as they can chant “Bush lied, people died” it’s A-O.K.(it’s true, but what does that have to do with the tools to be an effective and capable person throughout your life. My calculus was taught to me by an Indian (from India) who used the massive head of his buffalo as a desk while he watched the village cattle at the water (his job at ten). How much did it cost to educate this motivated student: NOTHING. But then, he wasn’t handed a thing. My son’s forty IT employees were also all in Bangladesh, enthusiastic and smart as heck, becuase he couldn’t find anybody in Manhattan who wasn’t an arrogant, insolent, and often incompetent fools drenched in expectations and not excellence, but holding degrees from top schools. Education is something you want, not b*sh*t dished by un-fireable illiterates justifying warm classroom seats to grab increasing cash. Bright kids (and young teachers) are bored to hell by a institutional mediocrity and the maintenence of incompetent morons as “staff”.

Oct 27, 2008 - 9:52 am 91. outNow:

B.C.

Folks in the special operations community are still “regular military” (as apposed to Reserve or Guard) . Okay, I know the question you were asking: How about the unconventional forces (SF, SpecWar, STS, etc) — how would they vote ? Who knows, honestly ?

I can tell you one thing though, what was hammered in during selection and training was, among other things, “I will never, ever quit.”

In many ways, that distinguishes a member of the community from other airman, sailors, and soldiers. An 11B in conventional forces may well be better at technical infantry operations than his special operations counterpart. But he has not been “tested” in the same way.

One of the presidential candidates has been tested. Harshly. And not found wanting. That would certainly count for a lot. Enough to decide by itself ? Nah. But it’s a heck of a distinction to me.

Ultimately what I (and a friend who also “did odd things long ago”) seek in the chief executive is someone who’ll respond appropriately when it all goes to hell.

I don’t want the government to “take care” of me with handouts, I can do that myself. I want them to reach halfway across the planet and kill those who would do me harm, against whom I have no other defense. And I want them to be so convincing in their ability and willingness to do so that those evil folks lose their willingness to TRY to do us harm.

If as president you don’t defend the USA effectively, don’t fulfill your first, best role as Commander in Chief, little else matters to me.

Oct 27, 2008 - 10:10 am 92. RWG:

Marc, don’t you remember? Clinton was a draft dodger which was discussed somewhat in his first campaign.

Oct 27, 2008 - 10:14 am 93. Vanessa:

Wow, there is lots to comment on here.

My brother is career military, Intelligence with the DOD and will be heading back to Iraq for the 2nd time in November. Our mom will have her heart broken and alternate between states of panic and depression– again. And for what? Not many people believe the lies we were told about why Bush wanted to have this war anymore. The people on here who still want this war to continue are in an extreme minority. I kinda feel sorry for you. Once you get brainwashed into thinking you are doing something honorable for your country, you can’t question that and actually see reality because then you are left to face what horrible things you have been taught to do, have done, have been done to you, and have seen.

I used to think pretty much everyone in the military was a Republican until my brother, a liberal, enlisted. He thinks we never should have begun this war/occupation to begin with, but reasons that since he signed up for this, he must go and trusts that his unit will at least do things right. He believes the war was started based on lies told by the GOP. He also thinks that to vote for someone on a single-issue is dangerous. And it’s not like Obama is going to end the war anyway. He plans to leave thousands of troops and all mercenaries in Iraq.

Second, military absentee ballots are a small number compared to all of the provisional ballots that end up being thrown out by GOP and buddies. There is a long history of vote purges, machine “malfunctions,” and voter suppression of populations who tend to vote Democratic. That is the real threat to the democracy of elections in the US. ACORN did not even commit a crime as is being proven. It’s another typical “wag the dog” technique to draw attention away from the real issues. For example, “In New Mexico, the number of provisional ballots, which are mandated under new federal voting rules, that went uncounted exceeded the margin of victory in the presidential race in 2004.” — People for the American Way
http://www.issuelab.org/research/new_face_of_jim_crow_voter_suppression_in_america

Third, still, most ex-felons cannot vote. Because of the racist slant of the criminal justice system, 1 in 8 Black men cannot vote. Sentencing
Project
http://www.issuelab.org/research/expanding_the_vote_state_felony_disenfranch
isement_reform_1997_2008

Lastly, whoever said 95% of Black people are voting for Obama because he is Black– do you really think Black people are that stupid and single-minded? Remember, African Americans overwhelmingly vote for the Democrat anyway. And in the primary, many supported Hillary Clinton.

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:11 am 94. Mack:

There’s another possibility that nlcatter moved around so much is he couldn’t keep his mouth shut under the “don’t ask, don’t tell policy”. (ò¿ó)

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:11 am 95. nlcatter:

you made the claim – you have to provide proof

but you didnt

Obama never worked for and is not related to Odinga

most contractors I toalk to support mccain also

they like sucking on the taxpayer teat
and wasting money

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:13 am 96. Navy Chief:

So I just asked the 25 peopel here at this small command about their voting preference. From E-2 up through O5. 19 MCCain, 4 Obama, and 2 that were undecided.

” A young conservative has no heart and an old liberal has no brain.”
Sir Winston Churchill

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:13 am 97. nlcatter:

I did NOT say I was stationed there

you are such an Illiterate moron!

EUCOM is in PAtch barracks a facility NEAR stuutgart but es ist nich darin!

EUCOM is joint command at Army faciity

PACCOM is joint command at a marine base

Misisle are launched from Silos using REACT
DUH!!

BMEWS is only a RADAR component and not ALL the radar components much less the others

imbecile

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:23 am 98. SMSgt Mac:

Most important are the internals of that poll.
My interpretation is that the only reason Obama is above about 12%-13% is because of the women voters in the military. Surprise!

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:26 am 99. Peter the Sub Guy:

93. Vanessa wrote:
Not many people believe the lies we were told about why Bush wanted to have this war anymore. The people on here who still want this war to continue are in an extreme minority. I kinda feel sorry for you.

Peter asks:
Vanessa, let me ask you this; Would you rather we finish the job we have started, whether the reasons it began are right or wrong (and that is still up for debate. I still think 800 tons of weapons grade uranium is not nothing), and come out of Iraq leaving it more stable and an ally of the US, even if it takes a few more years? Or would you rather pull out now, letting the country degrade into chaos and a feeding ground and home base for terrorists and despots intent on the destruction of you, me, everyone we know, our country and our way of life, letting everything your brother has thus far fought for and over 4000 of his fellow servicemen and women have given their lives for, only to have to send them back there into a worse situation than what they went into in 2003 and have to ry and bring it back into the civilized world then? Is that what you (and seemingly most of your fellow Libs) REALLY want?

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:34 am 100. Peter the Sub Guy:

95. nlcatter wrote:
you made the claim – you have to provide proof
but you didnt

Peter replies:
How’s this then?

NEW YORK – Sen. Barack Obama, with a donation of nearly $1 million, and a son of Libyan dictator Muammar Gadhafi were among the biggest contributors to the presidential campaign of controversial Kenyan leader Raila Odinga, according to an internal document obtained by WND…

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:39 am 101. braininahat:

Former marine here, and I’m voting McCain/Palin.

Marines are sober individuals who make pragmatic decisions based on the reality of the circumstances. We have success on the brain because success means victory and staying alive. So we side politically with those who look at the world in the same sober way — like conversatives do.

Trying circumstances best reveal true character. You learn your own character this way, and that of others. Your strengths and weaknesses are revealed this way too, which is why bootcamp and rigorous training are so important for marines — because we learn what our fellow marines can and cannot do. This is essential knowledge for a fighting unit.

Character matters to marines. Character speaks both to your past (your history or record) and to your future (actions you’re likely to perform). Barack Obama fails miserably on this score. His decisions, both personal and political, are moral and political failures. He is the worst possible person to become president of this great nation. He is the absolute wrong choice to be Commander in Chief.

Oct 27, 2008 - 11:54 am 102. Believer:

You might be interested in the article at

conservativegrapevine.com

posted today: “This Ain’t Hell” — Gold Star mom runs into NH’s Democrat Party Chair. Unbelievable.

*****
That many absentee votes by the military might be rejected because of a technicality is an outrage. If there are any votes that are to be counted at all, they’re those of the men and women who’ve made our voting possible.

Oct 27, 2008 - 12:03 pm 103. Vanessa:

>Peter asks:
>Vanessa, let me ask you this; Would you rather we finish the job we have >started… Or would you rather pull out now, letting the country degrade >into chaos and a feeding ground and home base for terrorists and despots >intent on the destruction of you, me, everyone we know, our country and >our way of life…

Peter, I want for Iraq what innocent Iraqi citizens want: for the US to get out and let them deal with their situation themselves. It takes finely honed searching skills to find news about it as the MSM censors it, but Iraqis protest our presence there. Most Iraqis do not want our “help.” Though they are and were basically enduring a terrible civil war, it was much less violent before we came and less civilians were dying because our weapons are so much more deadly and our military fires much less discriminately than Iraqis do. Hatred towards America is only increasing with our presence there. It’s a sorry situation whether we leave or stay, but there will be much less death on both sides if we leave. I think for some people in the military, like my brother, ideally it’s not so much about “winning” or “finishing what you start” as it is about justice. Sometimes that means cutting your losses and moving on.

Oct 27, 2008 - 12:20 pm 104. Some Soldier's Mom:

dear truth: Many of you have seen the light and have accepted the truth.

whoa. is this biblical or Orwellian?

and some of us have seen the light, accepted te truth and are voting for mccain. just sayin’

Oct 27, 2008 - 1:14 pm 105. Greyhawk:

Vanessa

You’re argument reflects some accepted conventional wisdom – from spring/summer 2007. It was wrong then and now.

However, what you’re arguing for – withdrawal – is increasingly right. The war was won a year ago. We’ve gotten things turned around to the point where drawdown is the inevitable next step. Apart from semantics, McCain and Obama both agree.

While Obama’s promise to “end the war” (too late) is every bit as appealing as his promise of “Hope” your lack of understanding of Obama’s stated goals/policy might lead you to a big time disappointment. As I mentioned previously in this thread, he has pledged to leave an unspecified number of troops in Iraq for security, “fighting al Qaeda” and taining Iraqi Forces. (That’s not a small number, take my word for it.)

McCain doesn’t talk much about his pledge to remove most troops from Iraq during his first term, but that’s his goal, too. And that of the US military and the Government of Iraq.

We won. It’s over. We might still need a really big war to get our economy rolling again (regardless of who is president) and Iraq might be one of the battlefields of that war (Afghanistan is a more likely center – it’s already a “goodwar”) but otherwise expect continued reduction of news from Iraq.

Oct 27, 2008 - 1:16 pm 106. elHombre:

It’s great that the military folks feel as they do and a crime that the Dems ongoingly try to prevent their votes from being counted.

When Obama unveils his “civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the military (Obama, 07/02/08), there is a strong possibility that a patriotic American military could be all that stands between us and liberal fascism.

Vanessa: Try doing a bit of critical thinking instead of parroting moonbat websites. Convicted felons have been stripped of their civil rights, including the right to vote, since American colonial days. It is intended to discriminate against criminals, not black people. If it weighs more heavily on black men, that is because black men commit proportionately larger numbers of felonies.

Not to worry though, Vanessa. Convicted felons of all races can get jobs with Acorn – which, BTW, has had numerous convictions for voter fraud. That will enable them to vote many times under many names.

Oct 27, 2008 - 1:20 pm 107. Some Soldier's Mom:

dear truth: >Many of you have seen the light and have accepted the truth.

whoa. is that biblical or Orwellian?

some of us have seen the light and have accepted the truth, and are voting for McCain. just sayin’.

Oct 27, 2008 - 1:24 pm 108. Greyhawk:

Sorry – misssed your comment “And it’s not like Obama is going to end the war anyway. He plans to leave thousands of troops and all mercenaries in Iraq.”

I wasn’t aware of Obama’s plan to leave mercenaries in Iraq though. Can you offer details?

Just curious, when did your brother enlist, and why?

Oct 27, 2008 - 1:26 pm 109. Donna V.:

(Afghanistan is a more likely center – it’s already a “goodwar”)

Actually, Greyhawk, the left’s stance on this has confused me. Many of them were opposed to going into Afghanistan even after 9/11. Then the war in Iraq started and the party line then became “I was all for going after the Taliban, but the war is Iraq is wrong because (insert stock reasons here).”

After the 2004 elections, the left vehemently opposed having troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, because if the evil Bushhitler was for it and implemented it, it just had to be wrong. But now that Barry wants to move troops to Afghanistan I guess that will once again become “the good war.”

Trying to follow the latest party line on this is not easy. All the lefties in my neighborhood with “War is not the answer” signs in their windows will have to amend the signs to read “War is not the answer – unless The One decides it is.”

Oct 27, 2008 - 2:22 pm 110. Greyhawk:

“I guess that will once again become “the good war.”

Well, “It’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

“And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you – not financially to help him – we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him.”

And after the economic turn-around, everyone will be happy once again.

If not, it’s Bush’s fault anyway: “Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says President Bush is leaving the nation “behind the eight-ball” in Afghanistan and bogged down in Iraq, ensuring the next president will face a foreign policy crisis.

“Biden, campaigning in Colorado Wednesday, told the Fort Collins Coloradoan that Bush has left the country in a “considerably weakened position.”

“Biden was responding to a question about his statement last weekend that if Barack Obama is elected, someone will manufacture an international crisis to test his strength.”

So “gird your loins.”

Oct 27, 2008 - 3:52 pm 111. Vanessa:

108. Greyhawk:
…I wasn’t aware of Obama’s plan to leave mercenaries in Iraq though. Can you offer details?

It’s pretty common knowledge for those of us who visit sites that are critical of Obama from the left, but you probably don’t. On Obama’s website, he doesn’t even mention mercenaries. However when he’s been questioned by journalists like Democracy Now’s Jeremy Scahill and Amy Goodman, and peace groups,

“…he told Amy Goodman of Democracy Now that he would not remove these 140,000 private troops from Iraq. Adding it together Obama would leave as many as 225,000 troops and mercenaries in Iraq after his withdrawal is complete.”
The Swamp
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/middle_east/

Same numbers from Voters for Peace, and on Nader’s website.
Voters for Peace
http://votersforpeace.us/press/index.php?itemid=215
http://votersforpeace.us/press/index.php?itemid=473

Just curious, when did your brother enlist, and why?

My brother enlisted in ‘97. Intelligence recruits heavily on Yale’s campus. He excelled on all the tests and was promised money towards his loans, and he told me, “Someone has to work on changing things from the inside.” Now, 11 years later, I think he’s dealing with the fact that a single person can’t change the military. I worry about him a lot because he won’t share what he’s really been through so far, but he does say that he finds some of his work “fulfilling.”

Like you I’m not supporting Obama, but not McCain either.

Oct 27, 2008 - 3:58 pm 112. Ted:

If you click through, it says this:

“The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.”

It’s not a random sample, so it’s not a valid survey.

Oct 27, 2008 - 5:31 pm 113. life long dem:

After all that I have witnessed during previous election cycles but especially this one, I am not surprised the depths that some would sink to attempt to exclude our military vote. Disgusting. More disgusting than the hapless folks who will not be able to vote because some acorn fraud takes their name and address out of a phone book and attempted to re-register them. I have seen media bias and have heard plenty of people, plenty, talk about the military with contempt, talk about Iraq or Afghanistan as though they had a clue of what they were talking about. I have heard the service of my children dismissed, denigrated and condemned by those same ignorant people. I have seen a man who was dead wrong about the surge, rise to power inspite of such obvious incompetence. “That one” lost my vote the second he said that he would take [my son] out of a stabilizing iraq, only to send him and everyone else back when it became a sh–storm again! Selfish, spineless and dangerous! I have seen a woman who made many, many less “gaffes” then her male counterpart be ripped to shreds, because she is a female and fresh meat. I have seen a regular guy, hanging out in his driveway ask a question of a candidate who came on his property only to be savaged by a biased media and the campaign of the same candidate. That’s just the tip of the iceberg! I am a life long democrat and have never been so disgusted with a Congress or the democratic party since I started reading the news every day at 9 years old. I am a Democrat. A real democrat and I am also an intelligent person who looks at all sides of the story before casting a vote. I am voting for McCain and Palin. When I start to be concerned I think about Dewey and Truman. I believe the polls may be just as slanted right now.

Oct 27, 2008 - 5:39 pm 114. Marina:

From the other Universe:

OBAMA FAKE CROWDS:
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/6765

Please, read it if you want, but please, please send it to Rush, one of our last mouthes:
ElRushbo@eibnet.com

MY PROVIDER BLOCKS IT ALL THE TIME, PLEASE HELP ME,
OBAMA REALLY FAKES HIS CROWDS!!!!!!!!!

Send it to Rush or wherever you like, spread it, please,
DON’T LET THEM KILL OUR SPIRIT WITH THEIR FAKED POLLS!

Oct 27, 2008 - 6:05 pm 115. Leonard:

How is it that now military service is important, but in the last election John Kerry was clearly superior to George in that area but you conservatives seemed to ignore that.

Oct 27, 2008 - 6:36 pm 116. nlcatter:

fakes? there were 10,000 + there
what are palins?

your link proves nothing

can you read? NOTHING!

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:12 pm 117. nlcatter:

i will grant them a 65-35 edge

even with unscientific but

they are out of touch with america
havent your read how they cant understand how America is not in this fight?

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:15 pm 118. nlcatter:

if GIs cant follow simple rules

I did and voted STFU

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:16 pm 119. nlcatter:

Obam did NOT say he would leave private groups there, he said they would draw down as well!

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:19 pm 120. Greyhawk:

Vanessa

“140,000 private troops” – I actually wrote another piece for Pajamas a while back on that topic.

I think much of Obama’s apparent about-face on that issue is based on discovering what the vast majority of “contractors” in Iraq actually do – laundry, barbershops, dining facilities, etc. I can’t fault him for being duped (I applaud him for adjusting to reality) – media coverage of the issue has been deplorable, leading many to believe that “contractors” are “mercenaries”. The reality is the State Department employs a relative handful of Private Security folks (the infamous ‘Blackwater’ types) and the DoD pays for a larger number to check identification in the DFACs (”security”). The “mercenary” issue is one used to keep ignorant people ignorant. Don’t fall for it.

Oct 27, 2008 - 8:40 pm 121. Peter the Sub Guy:

103. Vanessa said:
It takes finely honed searching skills to find news about it as the MSM censors it, but Iraqis protest our presence there.

Peter replies:
And right there is your problem. Believing the MSM. I have two friends in Iraq, one who recently returned and one who was just deployed there a few months ago, and I hear the same thing from both of them (so we’re talking a close to two year period betweenthe two.) The Iraqi civilians love the US soldiers, are happy they are there and, especially since the Surge, are happy with the way the situation is starting to settle down, especially in the areas outside of Baghdad. If you truely believe the MSM, then you need a better source, or better yet, go there yourself and see with your own eyes. The MSM only reports what THEY want the US public to know, and as everyone is starting to realize, the MSM has been living in the Dem’s pockets full time for the last two years. The only protests against our presense, and that seems to be the only thing the MSM is willing to report on, are the Clerics who see their own power over the people slipping away as life returns to a semblance of normalcy.

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:56 am 122. Peter the Sub Guy:

103. Vanessa wrote:
…it was much less violent before we came…

Peter replies:
REALLY? So how do you explain all those mass graves from the Saddam era with hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis buried in them? How do you explain the Kurdish villages gassed to death by their own government? How do you explain almost CONSTANT war from the day Saddam rose to power, if not against the US and our allies than against other regimes like Iran in the region? Explain!

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:59 am 123. Peter the Sub Guy:

115. Leonard ask:
How is it that now military service is important, but in the last election John Kerry was clearly superior to George in that area but you conservatives seemed to ignore that.

Peter replies:
Gee, Leonard, maybe it had something to do with Kerry accusing the very soldiers he served with of committing atrocities during testamony before Congress? Maybe it had something to do with flinging his medals over the White House fence? (Oh, I’m sorry, they were somebody elses medals when he was called on it in 2004.) Maybe it was because he tried to distance himself as much as possible from the military his entire political career until he thought it might be able to help him and then suddenly he was a triple Purple Heart winner? Maybe it is because he hangs out with the likes of Hanoi Jane? That enough reasons to choose between the ‘just slightly more conservative than Ted Kennedy’ Joh Kerry and an incumbant President who has continued to protect this country and its citizens from terrorist attacks since 9/11?

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:30 am 124. nlcatter:

bush did not protect us on 9-11 or since

AQ has spent energy and is stornger than before
and has carried aout attacks around the world

they are not looking to kill 13 people in NY

they want to kill at least 3000+1

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:13 am 125. nlcatter:

they ignore it (as they ignore the failed military
and goverment that did not stop one 9-1 terrorist)

ONE !

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:13 am 126. nlcatter:

they ran the AIR FORCE that sat on its hands
on 9-11 and did nothing!

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:14 am 127. Ted:

There’s a followup on the poll here:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=bdd3d40a-6302-43df-899a-091761a71e96

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:21 am 128. jimbo:

I love the smell of Republican bitterness in the morning … smell like … victory.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:44 am 129. Peter the Sub Guy:

124. nlcatter wrote:
bush did not protect us on 9-11 or since
AQ has spent energy and is stornger than before
and has carried aout attacks around the world
they are not looking to kill 13 people in NY
they want to kill at least 3000+1

Peter replies:
Yes, I agree that AQ wants to cause as much terror and destruction as possible. Beyond that, I find you completely wrong. Please, elaborate, exactly how many successful terrorist attacks have occurred on US soil since 9/11? How many have been foiled thanks to the vigilence of our national security and military? AQ is limping along. People are starting to see it is a dying horse and leaving it in droves. But all that can change in an instant if we begin to show weakness again, like we did in the period between 1992 and 2000. All it takes is a leader who will say, “Lets find out why they hate us so much?” instead of “Let’s put a stop to this!”

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:45 am 130. Peter the Sub Guy:

125. nlcatter wrote:
they ignore it (as they ignore the failed military
and goverment that did not stop one 9-1 terrorist)
ONE !

Peter says: Please clarify? That makes no sense.

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:46 am 131. Peter the Sub Guy:

126. nlcatter wrote:
they ran the AIR FORCE that sat on its hands
on 9-11 and did nothing!

Peter asks again: They who? al-Qaeda? Saddam’s Republican Guard? Who the heck are you talking about?

Oct 28, 2008 - 8:47 am 132. nlcatter:

the military DUMMY

sat on its hands and did nothing on 9-11 to protect

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:10 am 133. Peter the Sub Guy:

132. nlcatter wrote:
the military DUMMY
sat on its hands and did nothing on 9-11 to protect

Peter responds:
Shows how little you really know. Once the nation realized truly what was happening, the entire military went onto a war footing. My base raised its threat level to condition Delta and immediately scambled more than a dozen submarines to sea in preparation for responding to whatever the events dictated once things became clear. The air force scrambled every available fighter into the air to both escort all civilian aircraft safely to the ground while also protecting our cities against any possible further hijacked aircraft. the Army, Marines and Nation Guard mobilized to protect our cities from ALL possible threats, and in NYC many volunteered to help search for survivors at Ground Zero. At the Pentagon, members of the armed forces from E-1 to O-10 rescued victims from the building and fought the fires alongside the civilian firefighters.

Once things became clear, I repeat, ONCE THINGS BECAME CLEAR!!!, the military responded to the attacks as directed by those appointed over them, ie the Civilian leadership. Things happened so fast on 9/11 that no one knew what was going on until it was too late. The military isn’t going to unilaterally decide it needs to start shooting civilian airliners out of the sky after one plane crashes into a building, an event that until the second plane hit everyone believed was a tragic accident. They do not have the authority to do that, and in fact, befor 9/11 it would have been unlawful for the military to take such drastic action without written, confirmed orders from very high up, ie POTUS, VP, SECDEF.

But your opinion, and that’s all it is, that the military sat on its hands and did nothing on9/11 is an insult to me, to all my shipmates, all my fellow service members, and all their families.

Walk in our shoes before you offer your your ill-informed opinions.

Oct 28, 2008 - 9:45 am 134. IMAO » Blog Archive » I Shouldn’t Vote:

[...] only the military voted in the election, McCain would win in a landslide of 68% to 23%. That makes sense, because the more that someone likes this country, the more likely he is to vote [...]

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:03 am 135. Peter the Sub Guy:

Hey nlcatter, I’m still waiting for your list of successful terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11!

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:03 am 136. Peter the Sub Guy:

Ever notice that when Liberals can’t argue with facts they resort to childish name-calling? “Idiot.” “Dummy.” As if that settles the entire matter and makes them feel smarter than everyone else in the room.

Here’s news for you (and you know who you are). The only person you’re smarter than is the the one staring at you in the mirror.

Oct 28, 2008 - 11:15 am 137. Larry the cable guy:

Ladies and Gentlemen,
This conversation has been very interesting. Some of you have made some very good and valid points (valid being the operative word). Others have at most been speculative at best. I would say that most of what I read is a reflection of what our politicians do. I think it is safe to say that we as a people want the truth foremost. Both Campaigns, some more than others have distorted the truth. If you want the right person to lead our country, then do your homework, stop listening to the news (biased),your friends (swayed)among others. Our biggest problem is that we do not research the candidate. All of us must admit that each candidate has “stretched” the truth. It is up to us to get off our rear and find out the truth and make our desicion based on the facts. If we want out of this hole (regardless of how and who put us here) we as the people need to do better at selecting the right person. Name calling, heart voting, etc. are ploys to gain your support. If you know anything about the office of the president, it will take more than the time he/she will have in office to fix this mess. This was a two term mess. I understand you like your candidate and that is great but arguing over who is the best for the job should be backed by truth and fact. None of us can speak for the military as a whole or any other body of people. Think about what you say and know what you speak about. That is how we as a people will get the right person for the job. Remember, It is we who hold the keys. If they want them, make them work for it. Then and only then will we get the results we all want regardless of who is in the office. Once again it will be by the people for the people!

Oct 28, 2008 - 12:31 pm 138. nick:

AGAIN how many lives did the USAF save on 9-11 in NYC with their figher jets?

ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!

how emboldened was AQ after military showed by Black hAwk down they were useless in Somalia?

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:53 pm 139. nick:

Kathleen Parker, Peggy Noonan, Colin Powell, are amewrican heros

Oct 28, 2008 - 4:57 pm 140. nick:

you want to know how many americans AQ has killed since 9-11?
many!

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:00 pm 141. nick:

if he cant understand a simple statement
he is a DUMMY

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:01 pm 142. nick:

submarines saved no one – intellgient people knew it was a AQ follow up to the 1993 bombing

The air force scrambled TOO LATE!!

TOO LATE

both civ and DoD worked to rescue people at Pentagon

WE ARE TALKING BEFORE AND DURING THE ATTACK
not after action reports

and I have the FACTS on my side

6 years longer than ww2 in IRaq based on incompetence.

and losing Afghanistan today

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:04 pm 143. Peter the Sub Guy:

138. nick stupidly wrote:
AGAIN how many lives did the USAF save on 9-11 in NYC with their figher jets?
ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!
how emboldened was AQ after military showed by Black hAwk down they were useless in Somalia?

Peter responds:
And just how many planes did the USAF manage to intercept on that confusinf morning? None, because no one knew what was happening, how many planes had been hijacked (some reports said as high as a dozen) and even if they did manage to reach one of the hijacked planes, they still didn’t have permission to do anything. (It was AGAINST THE LAW for military planes to shoot down unarmed civilian aircraft at the time.)

And who was responsible for the embarrasment of Somolia that emboldened AQ? Clinton, who couldn’t take a few military deaths and pulled out of the country like a wuss.

Who was responsible for the Khobar Towers bombing? Clinton!
…The Africa embassies? Clinton!
…The USS Cole? Clinton!
…9/11? Clinton! Clinton! Clinton!

If Clinton had ANY balls (besides the ones he used on his INTERN!) he would have gone after Osama when he had the chance. Hell, Sudan offered Osama to Clinton on a silver platter and he TURNED THEM DOWN! And each progressive terrorist attack against US interests grew bigger and bigger and bigger until we lost 3000+ innocent civilians on September 11.

Learn a thing or two before you comment on something you know nothing about. You have not the slightest clue what the military was doing on 9/11, nor can you comment on what they were allowed and not allowed to do because of the confusion of that day.

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:24 pm 144. Peter the Sub Guy:

140. nick stupidly wrote again:
you want to know how many americans AQ has killed since 9-11?
many!

Peter reiterates:
I didn’t ask how many Americans AQ has killed. Soldiers are killed every day, in war and peace. I asked how many SUCCESSFUL terrorist attacks have been conducted on US SOIL since 9/11? HOW MANY?

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:26 pm 145. Peter the Sub Guy:

141. nick stupidly commented:
if he cant understand a simple statement
he is a DUMMY

Peter replies:
And if an idiot cant understand a simple question, he’s a Real Idiot!

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:27 pm 146. Peter the Sub Guy:

142. nick ignorantly wrote:
submarines saved no one – intellgient people knew it was a AQ follow up to the 1993 bombing

Peter replies:
Are you aware US submarines have launched more missile strikes against AQ targets in Afghanistan than the entire rest of the fleet combined. US Subs have been on the forefront of the War on Terror since day one. I don’t wear the GWOT Expeditionary Medal for nothing.

nick ignorently wrote:The air force scrambled TOO LATE!!

Peter replies:
They can only scramble as fast as the orders come in. As I may have mentioned in earlier posts (not that you pay any attention), 9/11 was a day of total confusion. When did YOU know what was going on? When did YOU relalize that airliner A, B and C were innocent planes thying to reach the nearest safe airport and airliner D was a terrorist hijacked flight intent on flying into a building? Because if you knew all these things within the first half hour, you should be in charge of the Pentagon because, man, you’re amazing.

nick ignorantly wrote:both civ and DoD worked to rescue people at Pentagon

Peter replied: Uh, duh. My point exactly!

nick ignorantly wrote:WE ARE TALKING BEFORE AND DURING THE ATTACK

Peter replies: Again, Duh! During the attacks! When everything was chaos. When there were reports of every sort coming in from every direction. When they evacuated the White House, Capital and many other DC buildings because multiple reports were coming in of planes rapidly approaching the city. There weren’t enough AF fighters in the DC area to cover every possible report. The military did the best it could with what it had to work with, which until late that evening was very little. Again, if you were able to dicern the truth of what was happening that morning within the first half hour, then dude, you’re amazing and you should be in charge of the world. But if you were like the rest of us mere mortals, then read your facts before you make any more ignorant comments.

nick wrote:6 years longer than ww2 in IRaq based on incompetence.

Peter askes: Do wars have expiration dates? Did the public demand that if we didn;t defeat Gemany by November 1944 we had to pull our troops out of Europe? That if Japan was still fighting in March of 1945 we had to surrender to the Emperor? Wars don’t occur on a time schedule. They are based on victory or defeat.

Once the troops start moving out of Iraq, which seems ever more likely as victory is more assured, are you libs going to start demanding surrender in Afghanistan next?

Oct 28, 2008 - 5:41 pm 147. Patrick Albano:

I just don’t understand America anymore. I am retired Army, served in the Gulf, under Clinton and Bush Jr and Sr. Yes it is true, I was treated mush better under Bush administrations-at least there was an attempt to pay and treat us like we meant something to this great country of ours.
I am not blind or stupid and I can see where people are upset where we are standing right now-economics, jobs, health insurance- but please don’t just put someone in cause you are mad. No matter how mad you are, you must see that this election is far more than who gives the best speech and promises the most. Do you want socialism here in the US? Do you want terrorism on our lands? Where is all this money going to come from for free health, more welfare, extended unemployment? Not big business as promised but from you and me-the average jerk! Do you want to trust our future to someone that has never been tested-14 months on political scene, most of that spent campaigning, look at the facts; PALIN HAS MORE EXPERIENCE THEN OBAMA BUT THE MEDIA IS SO AFRAID OF HER ALL THEY DO IS BELITTLE HER AND TRY TO MAKE HER LOOK DUMB! AT LEAST WE KNOW WHO PAID FOR HER EDUCATION! AT LEAST WE KNOW WHERE SHE STANDS AND WHAT KIND OF MORALS SHE HAS. AND SHE IS ONLY THE VICE PRESIDENT CANDIDATE-WE WON’T EVEN MENTION BIDEN CAUSE EVEN THE DEMOCRATS REALIZE WHAT AN IDIOT HE IS.
JOHN McCAIN HAS BEEN TESTED AND CAN REACT AND ACT UNDER STRESS AND PRESSURE> HE IS NEEDED TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY AT THIS TIME. DO YOU WANT SOMEONE WHO THOUGHT WE HAD 57 STATES IN THE WHITE HOUSE NOW? HELL NO!!!
Maybe Obama after serving in Senate and being in politics for a while will be ready for the office of president but HE IS NOT READY NOW!! I CAN’T WITH CLEAR CONSCIENCE HAVE HIM IN THE OVAL OFFICE PROTECTING MY FAMILY! MY CHILDREN ARE FAR TO PRECIOUS! I BEG YOU, IMPLORE YOU YOU PUT ASIDE YOUR ANGER AND CAST YOUR VOTE FOR THE RIGHT CANDIDATE; JOHN McCAIN.
This is not about race, religion…. IT IS ABOUT AMERICA!

Oct 28, 2008 - 7:54 pm 148. nlcatter:

146 – too bad you didnt serve on the Thresher

are you aware US submarines did nothing to Stop 9-11 despite launching CRUISE missile strikes against AQ targets in Afghanistan! thats how bad a job they did!
and ICBMs were even more worthless

They should have flying CAP! we were at war with terroists since 1993
Airliner A was known to be hijackded
READ THE 9-11 REPORT!

I told people after Bojinka that a stinger was not enough protection

then Clancys book gave new ideaas of how usefull a loaded 767 would be and AF did nothing

yes I am amazing

the attack on WTC – nothign was done my MILITARY

before pentagon attack also

you would have been good press aid at Pearl harbor – uh, its was panic sir!

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:25 pm 149. nlcatter:

it doenst matter where they are killed

still dead
due to inability of Military to catch the perps.

Oct 28, 2008 - 10:27 pm 150. Peter the Sub Guy:

149. nlcatter wrote:
it doenst matter where they are killed
still dead
due to inability of Military to catch the perps.

Peter replies:
A – Yes it does matter. This country has been kept safer because of the changes Bush made to the military mission following 9/11. If not, we WOULD (not might, WOULD) have had another terrorist attack on US soil.

B – Again, it was CLINTON who ordered the launching of missiles against empty camps. If he had done his F***ing job instead of doing his intern, we wouldn’t have had 9/11 to begin with!

C – Hey, Mister Amazing, put your money where your mouth is. You know all and see all. Go join the Army and personally capture Bin Laden. Obviously you can do it, from the way you’re talking. Otherwise, shut the **** up.

Oct 29, 2008 - 3:21 am 151. Peter the Sub Guy:

148. nlcatter:

Peter replies:
As for the Thresher..

I wasn’t even born yet in 1963, a**hat. And each of the sailors and civilians that went down on that ship were more of a man than YOU can ever hope to be.

Oct 29, 2008 - 3:26 am 152. nlcatter:

i knew that peter the sub guy

i just wished a moron like you went down

not smart Nuke qulifeid dolphins

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:13 am 153. nlcatter:

it matters that ~3000 dead were IN USA
and MILITARY did NOT STOP it

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:14 am 154. nlcatter:

Clinton did NOT order bombing of emplty camps

it was lousy MILITARY intel that missed AQ
BDA showed their idiocy

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:15 am 155. nlcatter:

I already served-

and I work on systems to get terrorists EVery day for last 9 years

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:16 am 156. Lib-Tard:

Oh yes we Democraps completely support our stupid brute, mercenary, baby-killing morons who fear change and like being led around by the nose that are todays armed forces. Can’t you tell by my words?

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:19 am 157. SGT Ted:

Hey libtards, if you support the Afghanistan Campaign, how come you aren’t joining the Marine Corps? They are shifting their troops over there now that Iraq has been pacified. I’ve been serving since 1983. C,mon, put your money where your mouths are, chicken-hawks. Go serve your country and help out the Afghanis.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:26 am 158. Herschel Smith:

Great and informative piece Greyhawk! Thanks for the hard work and research.

I know one particular enlisted Marine who plans to vote for McCain … and get the hell out ASAP if Obama wins.

I agree with your assessment above, but actually have some serious doubts that Obama would beef up forces in Afghanistan. We might get to see.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:32 am 159. Peter the Sub Guy:

155. nlcatter:

Peter replies:
And he still doesn’t know a single fact about what he’s trying to talk about. Just makes it up or pulls it out of his a**.

I was active duty when Clinton was Pres. The military didn’t just up and decide to launch a few worthless missiles at empty camps. the orders came from CLINTON! Look up your facts. read your history books (the ones not written by Liberal trolls), go back and read the newspaper articles. Clinton was trying to pull a ‘Wag the Dog’ trick to deflect attention away from the Lewinski matter. He had ALL the opportunities in the world, including Sudan literally offering Bin Laden’s head on a silver platter to destroy al Qaeda before he left office and he ignored EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

The military did what they could with what they had to work with at the time, which was mass confusion.

And don’t tell me submarines haven’t saved a single person from terrorists, because I have been involved personally with anti-terror missions “…vital to the national security of the United States…” that have prevented more carnage from happeneing to my country and my citizens since 9/11.

Oct 29, 2008 - 8:34 am 160. Larry the cable guy:

Ok Patrick,
You stated that “JOHN McCAIN HAS BEEN TESTED AND CAN REACT AND ACT UNDER STRESS AND PRESSURE” McCain has changed his campaign so many times I quit counting, he has incited radicals, allowed his rallies to get out of hand (not physically but mentally and verbally), lost the support of one of the most prolific Generals of modern times, lost more supporters of his own party than Obama, McCain has divided the country more than he has brought it together, He is known to lose his temper (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm) and has demonstrated it a few times, Now he is saying ANYTHING to get your vote, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me where the steady hand is? Don’t tell me Obama this and Obama that, I am talking about McCain, McCain has been tested as what a POW? I give the man credit for surviving a very bad ordeal but where has he been tested politically? This is not Viet Nam. The techniques and tactics like the weapons used are antiques at best. Times and the Americas requirements have changed. You know this from experience (the Army has changed a great deal, what was acceptable when you were a young soldier is no longer authorized or tolerated right?!)You have no idea what he said or did during his time as a POW. While you were in the gulf, does anyone outside of those that served with you know what you did? We have to go with your word until somebody denounces or supports your assertations. I like you served in those places and more (not that you haven’t). McCain nor Obama has had the weight of America on his shoulders. He was a senator just like obama. yes, McCain has been around longer but that does not equal the presidents responsibility. Why are so many vets against him? (Why would a Vietnam War veteran and former prisoner of war, a man who is personally acquainted with the difficulties vets can face in returning to civilian life, join President Bush in opposing a popular bipartisan bill to support the troops?,http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-humes30-2008may30,0,4850795.story) So, this is the guy that all of you are so smitten with and he is not even for you the veteran! If memory serves me correctly, we voted Bush Jr. into office and his military experience amounted to him dodging deployment because his dad paid to keep him out of deploying, Why serve? Political asperations thats why. There were so many fabricated stories about john keary that everyone was blinded and by the time we knew the truth it was too late (although keary did a poor job of defending himself). Move forward to 9-11 a very tragic time in American history. We gave him the keys to do what was needed. Guess what the guy we were suppose to get is still alive and well. Instead we went after Saddam who by the way did not start 9-11! He conferred with at the time the JCS Gen. Shinseki and when it was not what he wanted to hear what happened? neither he nor the Sec Def attended his retirement ceremony. The Sec Def was later sacrificed, imagine that. McCain is his follower and coupled with his temper may repeat the same thing. I am all for fighting when it comes to 9-11. Do you believe that we went after the right guy? If we had gone after the guy that started this, then things may be different now. This is the second time that we have not done what we should have and guess what Both mistakes were under the Bush’s! The first time we stopped short of Baghdad when we had them against the ropes and now the current president is about to leave office for someone else to cleanup what he failed to do. Yeap!, thats a great track record! As powerful as we like to think we are, we are not. China owns most of our debt, our companies outsource overseas, we hire more illegal aliens (no taxes paid), our products are exported with high tariffs being passed to us, we import with tax breaks and other incentives going to foreign countries, celebrities and others are adopting at a great rate children from foreign countries, celebrities and others are building schools and other buildings overseas, foreigners are attending (on our dime) and graduating from our finest universities and colleges and returing to their country, foreigners have a better chance at opening a business then you do (they get breaks you don’t), the American dream is sold everyday by the same guy/girl for a kickback that you don’t get any of and this person supposedly has our needs at the forefront, and the best one is we are pumping over 10 Billion Dollars a month into a country that has 79 Billion Dollars on its books and we are struggling? How strong are we? As for Palin, her experience is as a governor, not a senator. She is a local politician. her realm is her state (not russia, as many of you believe)and she has problems with abuse of authority as it is. Sure she is in touch with America, if your a mother with a pregnant under age kid, have children who play soccer or hunt. There is nothing wrong with any of this but it does not equate to running a country. Vote her in as a senator then lets talk, give her sometime in the big leagues. The National Guard in Alaska was called to federal service in 2004 before that they had not been called to service since WWII.(http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/338.html). She is what? (Since governors have no role in overseeing Guard members federalized for service in Iraq, military experts said that should not count as foreign policy experience.

National Guard officials said visits such as Palin’s trip to Iraq may be important because state officials can lobby the federal government for better training and more equipment if they are needed. There is no indication that during her trip Palin found major problems with how the Alaska Guard was trained or equipped.

Closer to home, the bread-and-butter duties of most state National Guards are natural disasters. During Palin’s 21 MONTHS in office, there has been one declared disaster: widespread flooding in June and July this year. Palin quickly signed a disaster declaration, officials said. The Guard’s role was limited to providing TWO water tanks and 30,000 sandbags to local authorities.(http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-guard6-2008sep06,0,4238012.story) GREAT EXPERIENCE!!!! WOW a whole 21 months!!
If she had the creditials of Hillary Clinton, I would not be stroking the keys on this subject. You may say what you like about Clinton (not withstanding the Leweski thing)he had more countries in our corner than we have had in some time. That has been completely reversed and McCain plans to carry that torch by making the same remarks. He made public remarks about North Korea and he had the audacity to jump on Obama about telegraphing! So, I ask you to do what you have asked others, but I ask you to do more, look at the facts competely and with an unbiased eye and then vote!

Oct 29, 2008 - 10:17 am 161. Larry the cable guy:

I am not an english major, but you get the point.

Oct 29, 2008 - 11:08 am 162. Susan Katz Keating:

To Nick;

Uh, excuuuse me? You’re just playing the part of a moron for Halloween, right?

Oct 29, 2008 - 11:49 am 163. nlcatter:

larry – why cant you be succinct?

noone going to read ranting

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:45 pm 164. nlcatter:

sgt ted – you would be lost without my work

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:46 pm 165. nlcatter:

Sudan did not offer AQ, another URBAN legend
that has been debunked

HERE you Bloody morons

On June 21, FOX News Channel co-host Sean Hannity repeated the false claim that former President Bill Clinton refused an offer from Sudan to turn over Osama bin Laden to the United States in 1996, even though the 9-11 Commission found no “reliable evidence to support” the claim that Sudan made such an offer

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:48 pm 166. nlcatter:

I said
on 9-11
MILITARY DID NOT SAVE
A SINGLE PERSON
at WTC!

Oct 29, 2008 - 6:50 pm 167. Peter the Sub Guy:

166. nlcatter wrote:
I said
on 9-11
MILITARY DID NOT SAVE
A SINGLE PERSON
at WTC!

Peter resonds:
MORON! What EXACTLY could the military have done to save anyone at the WTC??? You’re the idiot with all the answers! You tell us, oh brilliant seer of the future! What could have been done? The military wasn’t even ALERTED until AFTER the SECOND PLANE HIT! Before THAT MOMEENT evryone… EVERYONE… thought the first plane was a TRAGIC ACCIDENT! So tell everyone on this post, show how brillent YOU ARE, by TELLIN US WHAT THE MILITARY COULD HAVE DONE TO SAVE A SINGLE PERSON AT THE WTC???

MORON!

Oct 30, 2008 - 5:55 am 168. nlcatter:

1 they should have killed OSAMA in afghanistan

their SLCM did SQUAT – incompetance
same as with the USS

2 their fighers shuld have intercepted planes 2, and 3

seethe 9-11 report

Oct 30, 2008 - 7:38 am 169. nlcatter:

“Sarah Palin, an unhinged, know-nothing, delusional religious fanatic”

old quote but I just love to show why mccain is losig

Oct 30, 2008 - 7:41 am 170. Andi:

You know what!? I love being in the military but people like those of you who just say bullsh*t because my battle buddies and I are out there dying for you make me sick. I will vote for Obama any day anytime at least he is not under false pretend of pro-life while he will kill any thing and anyone he doesn’t like. I hate you bunch of racist jacka**es. I spent 13 months in Iraq and I cried alone in the dark because I had to pull a weapon on innocent women and children in a market place so sleep well while I struggle with my demons.

Nov 2, 2008 - 7:08 pm 171. Al Franken gets boosts in Minnesota Senate recount - Page 7 - Debate Politics Forums:

[...] any inkling of proof to support this fantasy? Pajamas Media

Dec 17, 2008 - 1:47 am

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed)
Comments:

Email This to a Friend

Landslide Victory for McCain — In the Military

171 Comments

Write a Comment

MOST POPULAR

MOST RECENT

PJM EXCLUSIVES

PajamasXpress Blogs

PJM Political

DAILY DIGEST

THE EDITORS @ PJM

PJM AUTHORS