230 Comments

1. Rich Vail:

Of course the left doesn’t want a mass demonstration against the government. It’s only patriotic when liberals protest, everyone knows that.

Rich Vail
Pikesville, MD

Jun 25, 2009 - 8:53 am 2. ked5:

love the smell of leftist fear.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:02 am 3. 1MPTomb:

Another example of the “tolerance” of the left. It is again a very scary example of the lengths the left will go to silence the voices that don’t agree with the people in power. Be very afraid of your government. I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes to light that the owners are personal friends of someONE.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:07 am 4. 1MPTomb:

Oh, and Atlanta- move the “party” outside!

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:08 am 5. blotto:

Okay then turnabout is fair play. Those 20,000 protestors should inundate the Simon Property Group website, shut it down, boycott their properties, march in front of their business, ask for invesigations into their using their money to stop the protest, etc. Just how did they get the city to not allow the protest? How can a government deny a protest except to not issue them a permit and then the government must have a legit reason…

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:09 am 6. MikeD:

Then organize it someplace else close by. Are you going to let the bastards win? They can’t shut you down if you want the event bad enough.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:10 am 7. Setphanie Screamer:

Where is the diversity? Where is the tolerance? Where is the togetherness that the election of our “Dear Leader” was going to bring? Seems that if your are a conservative and want to protest what our government is doing to our country you are a racist, or a right wing terrorist or whatever the latest buzz word is, but of course the left can protest all they want and thats just their patriotic duty, or so says Hillary. Obambi has done more to set people in the country apart and against each other then any President I can think of, even George Bush who was vilified and demeaned daily by the state run media and the tv talking airheads. I wonder how much longer it’s going to be before the left and the right are out in the streets having pitched battles with each other, which, of course, is exactly what Obambi wants since he then can declare martial law and take over the country as the ruler, not as the President. Hey lefties, how’s that “Hope and Change” thing going for ya?

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:26 am 8. ArrghNot:

Right to peacefully assemble not abridged… unless you don’t have proper permits, or you are to loud (no megaphones), or it causes the police to do their job (protect you, not eat donuts), or you are not the right party. Welcome to the land of the free. That’ll be $75 for a protest permit.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:28 am 9. Self-hating Boomer:

But Republicans are the party of big business! My intro to sociology prof said so!

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:29 am 10. Jettboy:

I agree with MikeD, do it somewhere else or do it anyway. Conservatives should put their money where there mouth is! If its war that Liberals want then that is what they should get. Become the radicals they are afraid of or you will end up like sheep.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:31 am 11. David S:

This is just a simple case of a business owner defending his interests. Simon apparently has a legal right to refuse access to this property, and that right trumps the protest.

The Tea Party should be held on property that belongs to the public. The irony would only be too delicious.

Peace.

DS

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:46 am 12. Andrea Shea King:

Simon Corp. Coincidence???? American Thinker has the story:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/06/july_4_atlanta_tea_party_cance.html

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:59 am 13. KenJ:

https://www.simon.com/about_simon/contact_spg/default.aspx

The above link should take you to the comment page. Email these twits and let them know how you feel.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:59 am 14. tommyd:

wow , this company owns 398 malls in the U.S.
Here is a list so you can find one near you to boycott.

Turn about is fair play is it not?

p.s. maybe someone with the know how can import the list and post it here…

http://www.simon.com/findamall/default.aspx

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:59 am 15. tommyd:

I would think they will take that list off their web site soon, to try and HIDE themselves from owning up to what they are trying to do.

Typical libs.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:06 am 16. seven:

What if they showed up and staged a boycott?
Remember the Malls are dying. Obama is killing their revenues.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:07 am 17. aclay1:

Thank you for the links. As someone lucky enough to still have a good job (though who knows for how long), my boycott begins today and is permanent. I WAS a regular customer of two of their propeties – no more!

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:17 am 18. Austin:

How about calling the customers (stores) of the mall and complain to them?

The big retailers should know that THEIR customers will boycott them.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:23 am 19. Rob:

Probably a good idea to notify stores found in the mall and tell them you will boycott them. places like brookstone, candle stores, crap like that which is only found in malls. if brookstone is 5% of the rent paid at each Simon mall property then focusing directly on the larger renters at Simon malls might help focus the energy and get a result out of Simon.

Or just move it to Piedmont, Centennial Olympic Park (right next to CNN headquarters), or another park – though I bet permits are already out for most large parks.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:26 am 20. Meryl:

Hey guys, thanks for those links. I already posted an e-mail to them and discovered as you did that one of them is not far from us in Minnesota.

This is just the beginning, you know. I have a hard time with the confrontations and the ugliness that occurs even on these threads, but I’m not quitting.

If we’ve never had to fight for our country for whatever reason, now every person with a brain and a computer has reason and opportunity to FIGHT.

America is not a dream. It is a reality that was earned by generations who paid a price. God willing, ours will not the generation(s) that let it slip away.

You libs…any time you want to slowly begin to wake up to what it is about the obama wrecking crew that makes you feel so important, and begin instead to protecting the life you have….now’s the time.

Or DO you really want to hit us with bats and pull the cords from our computers? No. That’s not extreme. Looking at what you say about us and about America, if your goals and feelings were put in to action, that is exactly what you would be doing.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:34 am 21. Rob Crawford:

“The Tea Party should be held on property that belongs to the public. The irony would only be too delicious.”

What irony? Either you don’t know what that word means, or you have some bizarre idea what the Tea Partiers are about.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:38 am 22. Delia:

Wow. Just wow.

I guess some people really are afraid of an American Revolution.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:43 am 23. Paul A'Barge:

Here is what Bren and Melvin are up to in part of their spare time. In addition that is to working to stifle free speech.

more

yet more

Yep. Bren is big buds with Carville and Blumenthal and Begala.

Gotta love those fascist philanthropists.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:45 am 24. Eric Hall:

Yes, simply go to simon.com/findamall and boycott their retail properties. Funny, I looked at their malls in OC and they’re ones I never shop at anyway (Shops at MV, LH Mall, Brea Mall, Block at Orange, Westminster Mall)

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:52 am 25. SDN:

Just go ahead and show up…. with guns. “If they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:53 am 26. jrh:

Wondering…

Has Simon been consistent about not allowing ‘political’ events on their properties? Or is there real bias being shown here?

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:54 am 27. jeff:

don’t be quiet as you are lead to the gulag. speak out peacefully, protest peacefully.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:55 am 28. SDN:

Or does anyone believe that Sam Adams cared one bit that those ships in Boston Harbor were private property?

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:55 am 29. JED:

Repression of a public right to demonstrate was just yesterday’s news in Iran.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:56 am 30. George Pratt:

Melvin Simon is also part owner of the Indiana Pacers.

So for the Indianapolis readers, letting the Simons know you will stop supporting their basketball team might also get their attention.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:03 am 31. Old Patriot:

Sounds like someone needs to discover the power of the people. Boycott their malls for a few months and see how they behave. If they try to bully people, then shut them down. If they understand that “all politics is local, and the people control the power”, then they MAY be worth saving. Otherwise, continue to boycott until they collapse.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:04 am 32. Scott Hanshaw:

When are conservatives going to the courts? Liberals have been doing it for years. It’s time to force the issue, especially when dealing with city governments dominated by liberals. The Constitution still applies in Atlanta. And sue for a lot of money, like the ACLU does.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:07 am 33. Trey:

What blotto said. You guys fight back. Fight back in a legal manner, but fight back hard. Picket the malls, boycot their properties, write letters to the editor, make them think twice about this kind of activity.

Trey

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:12 am 34. tommyd:

Quote:

SDN:

Just go ahead and show up…. with guns. “If they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”

No, thats what the left would hope for then they could say Home Land Security was right all along…
You can bet your bottom dollar that they are hoping and praying (if they do such things) that some nut will start shooting. I would not put it past them to payoff someone to do that very thing just so they can say everyone on the right is a danger to our country…

Face the facts , There is a civil war going on, it’s just different than the last one.

You must have noticed that all the Tea Parties have been peaceful positive events. Not the Hate mongering and destruction that goes on at liberal protest…

The leftist would like to change that for sure.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:14 am 35. Bob Bailey:

Maybe you will have to do the same thing the Iranian citizens are doing. Spread out all over the city so you won’t be arrested.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:16 am 36. Delia:

29. JED:

“Repression of a public right to demonstrate was just yesterday’s news in Iran.”

I was thinking the exact same thing, JED. I was going to make a joke about armed Mullah’s but I figured it would be in poor taste.

Oops.

I wonder if this is going to be the first of ‘many’ efforts to silence Independence Day tea parties all over America?

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:16 am 37. 24AheadDotCom:

1. According to one of the links, they’ve rescheduled it at a park on July 3. So, it hasn’t been totally shut down, although I expect the tea partiers to pretend it has been.
2. Didn’t anyone in the “movement” look at any of the referring pages?
3. Doesn’t the “movement” support private property rights?
4. Shouldn’t the “movement” have considered the possibility that things like this might happen and have had a written agreement of some kind, thereby allowing them to possibly sue?
5. For another example of tea party-like stupidity, see this.
6. Fun fact: the major string-pullers on the “movement” support massive immigration, something that leads to more spending and more power for the far-left.
7. And, if you think I’m a BHO fan, see my site. I’m just opposed to stupidity.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:16 am 38. elaine:

What people like this fail to realize is that by trampling on the people’s right to freely and peacebly assemble, they’re creating the thing they fear most — that the people will take a stand to protect that right.

As others have suggested: this is what’s happening in Iran right now; citizens are being denied the right to protest and are even being killed for protesting.

Coercion and violence are the only weapons tyrants have. For now in America, they’re content to use coercion to get their way… but for how long will that be the case?

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:17 am 39. tommyd:

#29 JED:

“Repression of a public right to demonstrate was just yesterday’s news in Iran.”

Open your eyes to what is happening here folks……How far have we fallen..

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:19 am 40. newera:

I know of companies and organizations that are checking their records and purging Republican donations and giving to Democrats simply so that they don’t get hit by Obama and the Democrats power machine.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:25 am 41. Becky:

oooh… thanks for the link. Fashion Valley in San Diego. I can boycott that one. Horton Plaza is a better mall anyways, as is Mission Valley. I’m not sure that boycotting will be all that effective as people shop individual stores. I think it would be better to call places like the Cracker Barrel and tell them that you will not be going to malls owned by Simon Corp and will shopping Cracker Barrel at a different location or online.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:30 am 42. BR:

Wait a minute, a large retail mall doesn’t want 20,000 potential customers to show up on it’s doorstep? If I were a shareholder I’d be upset.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:33 am 43. always right:

14. tommyd

I checked, the two malls I visit are not theirs. Otherwise, I would let them know.

I switch to online shopping more nowadays anyway.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:38 am 44. karlstro1:

I find it very chilling in this country the conspiracy of the left to shut down any kind of debate or dialog in reference to anything the new Congress and the President want to submit the American citizen. never in my life have I seen elected leaders mandate spending in a fashion that has NO fiscal responsibility! I am glad that we have the internet to get all sides of the news. I’ll make up my own mind, thank you very much.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:39 am 45. Whitey:

The location is private property and the owner has a right as to what goes on at on their property. Waaaaaa Go tea bag each other somewhere else.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:54 am 46. Karol:

I shop at Grapevine Mills and Northeast Mall frequently. No More.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:55 am 47. Jim,MtnViewCA,USA:

A reason to avoid Stanford Mall and Great Mall of the Bay here in Silicon Valley..

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:03 pm 48. jharp:

I read the entire article and have no idea what you are talking about.

As near as I can gather, Simon Property Group, a private company with private property rights, doesn’t want a bunch of toothless rednecks teabagging on their property.

What is wrong with that? You do believe in the the rights of owners of private property owners, right?

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:06 pm 49. Cousin Dave:

David S: You missed the bit where it said the property that the protest was going to take place on isn’t Simon property. Simon is using an easement (and presumably the threat of a lawsuit over it) as a pretense to prevent the legal property owner from being able to host the protest.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:09 pm 50. jharp:

And my I add that it was a wise business decision.

In case you didn’t know the teabaggers at best represent the feelings of about 20% of the population.

Why would anyone want to inject politics into their place of business knowing no matter what side you take you are likely to anger a large number of customers.

I 100% agree with the Simons. There are plenty of public venues to teabag.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:16 pm 51. jharp:

karlstro1:

“I find it very chilling in this country the conspiracy of the left to shut down any kind of debate or dialog in reference to anything the new Congress and the President want to submit the American citizen.”

The only problem with your post is there is no evidence, none, nada, zilch, zero, of anyone on the left trying to shut down any debate or dialogue.

As a matter of fact we encourage debate and dialogue. Especially teabagging. It helps our cause.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:19 pm 52. MinaB:

Elite Democrats are fascists, we all know that. IF they could shut down free speech, they would, as demonstrated here..

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:22 pm 53. jharp:

Les Morris, a spokesman for the mall, says in a written statement: “Gwinnett Place Mall is not public property, but is privately owned. In order to preserve the shopping experience for all guests, it is our standing policy not to permit political protests or rallies on mall property. To clarify the timing of our decision, mall management was not notified of the event or contacted for approval on event plans until just last week.”

He goes on to say that the company just learned of the event last week.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:23 pm 54. always right:

37.

Look into the mirror before you doll out stupidity in large amounts.

A) According to the actions of some Large Democrat Donors, a peaceful public assembly for free speech was canceled and needs to be diverted.

B) The Tea Party movement (if you want to call it that) supporters searched and did the ’support private property’ thing by boycotting with their wallet. You call this stupid.

C) I think you totally missed what drove these tea parties and tea party goers, since you used the phrase “another example of tea party-like stupidity” you did not participate in one.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:24 pm 55. Brutus:

I just contacted the Simon Group to notify them that I will no longer patronize their mall properties, and would be informing those I know about their support of censorship.

A small thing, but one that we ALL can do!

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:26 pm 56. Ben:

It’s disturbing how often the actual aims and goals of Tea Party folks are distorted. What Tea Party attendee is against all taxes? NONE. Which ones are against the existence of publicly owned parks? NONE. Which ones are constantly derided on false premises by folks on the left who don’t bother to find out what’s really going on? ALL OF THEM.

It would be nice if people who don’t like the Tea Parties came up with some intelligent debate based on the arguments the Tea Partiers are actually making, instead of restricting their criticism to tea-bagging jokes and things the Tea Parties have nothing to do with. Anyone who says all the Tea Party people are against taxes is a complete moron who probably can’t actually read the astoundingly complex placards held up at protests, so they just make assumptions.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:28 pm 57. Fen:

jharp: Simon Property Group, a private company with private property rights, doesn’t want a bunch of toothless rednecks/niggers/wetbacks teabagging on their property.

Racist pig. “Redneck” is a slur aimed at rural whites. The irony is that its used to imply they are ignroant bigots, by people like you who are ignorant that its a bigoted expression. Keep digging, Bigot.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:29 pm 58. jharp:

Cousin Dave:

“David S: You missed the bit where it said the property that the protest was going to take place on isn’t Simon property. Simon is using an easement (and presumably the threat of a lawsuit over it) as a pretense to prevent the legal property owner from being able to host the protest.”

You are correct. And under the law that is a right of Simon Property. And it happens all the time.

“Dooley says while the owner of the property agreed to hold the event there, Simon invoked a clause in its lease in which the mall was able to assert authority on the matter due to reciprocal property easement agreements.”

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:30 pm 59. hoads:

I was not going to be able to go the July 4 Atlanta Tea Party so I sure as hell won’t be missing the July 3 Tea Party at Jim Miller Park, Marietta.

Atlanta Patriots—–BE THERE!!!!!!

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:30 pm 60. Brian:

Ha ha! It’s funny because jharp said “teabag” over and over. You know, because it’s sexual innuendo! Ha ha!

I wonder if the left would be quite so enthusiastic if the tables were turned. Like if you said, Obama’s stimulus plan rains money down from the sky. You know, money. Like gold. And rain. Like showers. Why, it’s Obama’s golden showers! There’s your new catchphrase.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:36 pm 61. jharp:

Hi Brian,

Yeah it is pretty funny that the dimbulbs named their event after a distasteful practice. Really funny. You’d almost conclude they aren’t very bright.

Or there’s also the TEA Taxed Enough Already slogan that appeared after Obama cut taxes.

The teabaggers are a joke.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:42 pm 62. rvastar:

As a matter of fact we encourage debate and dialogue. Especially teabagging. It helps our cause.

You
sure
about
that?

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:47 pm 63. bobbcat:

48. “…..a bunch of toothless rednecks teabagging on their property.”

As if this is the case. Uttering such a mindless, blanket statement strains your credibility.

Atlanta’s Tea Party organizers: So what if these lefty big boys don’t want a demonstration held on property they either own or lease. Take it somewhere else for COL; don’t be stupid.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:48 pm 64. Kevin:

Blotto, DanJ: Letter of protest sent to Simon Properties. Not one dime for these oppressors of the working class!

jharp: Thanks for providing a textbook example of what Comrade Lenin used to call a “useful idiot”.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:51 pm 65. bobbcat:

60. rvastar. Useful links. I am glad you posted them.

Jun 25, 2009 - 12:59 pm 66. newton:

Take a page from the Iranian protesters, Atlanta: show up anyway… and triple the numbers!

We are going to show those Democrat donors who’s boss!

And if they come with their own thugs: let them act up. At least, America will find out who the tyrants really are. (Hint: it’s not the protesters!)

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:00 pm 67. Ms. Attitude:

I think the liberals that post on here are sexually frustrated. Sad, really sad.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:08 pm 68. Dusty:

“I just contacted the Simon Group to notify them that I will no longer patronize their mall properties, and would be informing those I know about their support of censorship.”

#55, Brutus Jun 25, 2009 – 12:26 pm

Hey, look! Simon’s is nationwide!:

http://www.simon.com/findamall/default.aspx?Portfolio=true

Pick the commercial property with lots of retail stores in your area to boycott! Be sure to write a simple explanation why you won’t be patronizing their stores anymore and make lots of copies to give to store managers.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:08 pm 69. Sarge:

The answer to this is simple; suggest that all planned protest attendees, singly and on their own volition, go visit the Gwinnett Place Mall at the same time… and not buy anything.

Just suggest that they, not as anything organized mind you, but simply in their roles as private persons and US Citizens, each take the opportunity to ask to speak to a store manager, and express calmly that they don’t appreciate the store’s landlord’s interference with the right of the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, and as such, will no longer patronize any Simon Property establishment.

10 or 20 thousand people moving patiently thru that mall, calmly and peaceably explaining to the tenants of the mall that their landolord’s actions will cost them business, will have far more effect than anything raucous could.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:13 pm 70. bill-tb:

Tyrants, and tyrant wannabes have the same goal, shut down dissent. Watch Iran, as Obama’s buddies show how it’s done.

Notice how Obama never says the word freedom?

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:19 pm 71. jharp:

Your boycott of Simon Properties is hilarious.

Do you honestly think a group of Wal Mart and Dollar store shopping teabaggers is going to impact their business in the slightest.

Heck it might even help their business. I mostly avoid malls because of the white trash factor. With you guys out of there I’ll shop at the mall more often.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:23 pm 72. WestWright:

#67 Ms. A…the juvenile posters just get a childlike giggle when they type ‘TeaBagger’. They’re mindless followers of the Cipher Prez and high on the narcissicism air.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:27 pm 73. The Shadow:

Gee! Those darn Democrats just don’t play fair – They dhould be more like the upright Tom Delay

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:29 pm 74. bobbcat:

68. “Pick the commercial property with lots of retail stores in your area to boycott! Be sure to write a simple explanation why you won’t be patronizing their stores anymore and make lots of copies to give to store managers.”

As if it’s the respective store’s fault these lefty owners are intimidated by Atlanta’s tea party plans? A silly suggestion to say the very least that won’t make a hill of beans of difference (as not anywhere near enough people would agree to stop shopping at all those stores). Atlanta has a lot of space; better it be to suggest to these tea-party organizers to take it elsewhere (as I have done above).

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:30 pm 75. The Shadow:

jharp – private property rights are limited to property owned by wingnuts – Check the Constitution!

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:33 pm 76. jharp:

Would one of you be kind enough to explain to me exactly what is meant or implied with the tea parties.

I’ve heard TEA Taxed Enough Already after Obama cut taxes, I heard teabagging, and I’ve hear tea parties (which the original was about taxation without representation) and isn’t even remotely like our current government.

Why don’t you just cut the nonsense and call them what they are. The “I hate Obama” rallies.

You guys are pathetic. You lost an election. Get over it.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:39 pm 77. bobbcat:

71. “I mostly avoid malls because of the white trash factor.”

Better to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Author Uncertain

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:41 pm 78. bobbcat:

76. jharp. Why don’t you attend the next tea party nearest you, and most, if not all, your inane questions and commentary will be properly addressed.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:43 pm 79. gb_in_tx:

The sad thing is, Firewheel is the closest one to us. And it is actually fairly nice. Open air. Oh, well.

I guess Collin Creek and StoneBriar will be getting our business.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:53 pm 80. elfiii:

It doesn’t matter. The ATL Tea Party has been merged with the Marietta Tea Party so it has a venue.

I don’t shop at malls anyway.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:56 pm 81. jharp:

76. jharp. Why don’t you attend the next tea party nearest you, and most, if not all, your inane questions and commentary will be properly addressed.
Jun 25, 2009 – 1:43 pm

You have got to be joking. Do you make it a practice of attending political rallies that you don’t even know what they are about?

The wingnut thought process is an interesting phenomena. I hope it isn’t contagious.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:56 pm 82. roger rainey:

To really be helpful, you should post contact information for SPG so people can register their unhappiness. Also, should identify malls owned by SPG so people can boycott them.

Jun 25, 2009 - 1:58 pm 83. fred:

“You guys are pathetic. You lost an election. Get over it.”

F you, jharp. We have a perfect right to protest the fact that Obama and Congress are quintupling the national debt. It will effectively destroy this country and we love our country too much to let people like you and your adored leader slay it. The devil has been in the details that people like you don’t notice or don’t care about. Selfish pr**k.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:01 pm 84. btenney:

Hold it in the steet, but be sure to park at Simon Properies.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:02 pm 85. Shari:

Just emailed Simon will no longer be shopping at their Folsom mall in California and will tell friends/workers/relatives to do the same.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:04 pm 86. Warren Bonesteel:

Why does anyone need permission from the government in order to stage a protest against the government?

You ask permission from the government to protest against the government and are shocked and surprised when it denies you the right to protest against its excesses?

Are you insane? Are you slaves?

…or are you fools?

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:11 pm 87. jerico:

jharp. Open up your small little liberal brain and face the facts that the tea parties are protesting Washington and everyone that fills that corrupt city. You will eventually realize that fact, but it will be too late.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:14 pm 88. rvastar:

jharp states:

As a matter of fact we encourage debate and dialogue.

…followed by:

You guys are pathetic. You lost an election. Get over it.

Anyone have any further questions as to the futility of trying to actually engage Leftists in intellectually honest debate?

Step 1: Point out there stupidity and back it up with facts.
Step 2: When they respond with the only playbook they have – i.e. ad hominem, red herring, and straw man arguments – point them out as well.
Step 3: Watch in amusement as all of them – to a one – eventually run and cower.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:18 pm 89. Michael:

I posted something up this the other day,then politely called Simons Property over their decision to shut the July 4th event down,and why.

I find it amazing though,that when conservatives disagree,say with what the Dixie Chicks said,and the market -i.e. radio stations refusing to play them, they cray foul and say their First Amendment was violate. Yet,the liberals do some like this,which was behind close doors and very underhanded,and say we are being a bunch of cry babies.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:19 pm 90. tommyd:

from American Thinker.

Following the money, connecting the dots:

1. Gwinnett Place Mall shut down the Atlanta Tea Party.
2. Simon Property Group owns Gwinnett Place Mall.
3. Melvin Simon (a Forbes 400 billionaire) is Co-chairman of Simon Property Group, Inc.
4. Melvin Simon has provided large political contributions to Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Al Franken, John Edwards, the DNC and many other Democrats and Democrat organizations.
5. Melvin Simon was a major contributor to Barack Obama inaugural committee and has given at least $1 million to the William J. Clinton foundation.
6. Melvin’s wife, Bren, personally donated almost $100,000 to various political candidates, was a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton’s presidential bid, and contributed to President Obama’s inaugural committee.

Contact: Simon Properties

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:21 pm 91. Blarty Blarckleblart:

I know y’all are upset about those mean Democrats, but really – how hard would it be to find an alternate site capable of holding fifteen people? Are you really that hapless?

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:31 pm 92. The Shadow:

Wow – I am sure this boycott will bankrupt them. Amazing – I wonder how many peopleshop at these Malls. Could we estiamte in the millions and how many of you are going to boycott? Yep they will proably be in line for some stimulus money to relace the $1.50 it will cost them

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:32 pm 93. The Shadow:

jerico – And the walls came tumbling down!

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:33 pm 94. jharp:

fred,

“We have a perfect right to protest the fact that Obama and Congress are quintupling the national debt. It will effectively destroy this country and we love our country too much to let people like you and your adored leader slay it.”

Don’t recall anyone stating you don’t have the right to protest. It’s just a wingnut fantasy in their playing the victim routine.

No one likes the additional debt. No one. I don’t know where you’ve been but Bush left us an economic catastrophe, the worst since the great depression, and most economists agreed that the stimulus package was the quickest and best way to handle it. I agree.

Your George Bush and the GOP are the ones who nearly “slayed” the United States. A trillion dollar unnecessary war, doubled the debt in a period of growth, and the worst job losses since the depression. And the voters threw their asses out. Your group had your chance. And bungled it monumentally.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:52 pm 95. DLA:

I sent the following to Simon Property Group. I urge everyone to do the same:

“Due to Simon Property Groups highly questionable and un-patriotic and un-American use of coercion to cause the Tea Party protest gathering on July 4th in Atlanta to be canceled, I will no longer shop at the Simon-owned property here in Oklahoma City, Penn Square Mall. I also intend to let every one of your lessees here know why and to urge everyone with whom I have communication to do the same. SHAME on you.”

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:58 pm 96. jharp:

jerico:

“jharp. Open up your small little liberal brain and face the facts that the tea parties are protesting Washington and everyone that fills that corrupt city.”

So where were you when George Bush and the GOP Congress doubled the debt during a period of growth.

Or started an unnecessary war the got us nothing but another $1 trillion in debt (and still counting), 4,500 killed, and 30,000 wounded and maimed.

Or when Bush and co. sat idly with the banks and Wall Street sole trillions.

Yeah, you have every right to protest. And you should have been.

About 5 years ago.

Jun 25, 2009 - 2:59 pm 97. Michael:

If that’s all it takes to shut it down, then the Tea Party Movement is worse than worthless.

They oughta go Patrick Henry on them.

If they quit here they are pathetic losers and they should all become wards of the State,

I hope not.

Jun 25, 2009 - 3:01 pm 98. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Step 1: Point out there stupidity and back it up with facts.

No additional comment. Just wanted to read that again.

Jun 25, 2009 - 3:01 pm 99. oMan:

Can anybody get data on whether Simon’s malls have allowed similar events of a different political persuasion? If so, they may be guilty of discrimination in applying their “free speech/assembly” rule. They are not a state entity so First Amendment won’t apply directly: but malls are quasi-public space, a kind of modern “village green,” and –while I haven’t studied the caselaw on what people can expect to be allowed to do in malls, and there may be no lawsuit that could be brought, the discriminatory behavior will be terrible PR. The average consumer understands the idea of playing fair.

Between that PR nightmare, and the boycott, and possibly a peaceful walk-through of former patrons explaining to stores why they can no longer shop there, Simon may find this was not such a good plan.

Jun 25, 2009 - 3:34 pm 100. Ms. Attitude:

jharp, at the Apr 15th Tea Party I attended there were democrats, conservatives and independents in attendance. So I guess teabagging is a real American thing! hehehe

It’s not just about Obama, it’s about Washington’s elite who know nothing about working a 8-5 job. They continually raise taxes and it’s been worse in the last year than ever before. We are the same people who wrote our congressmembers to vote no on the TARP last year and we are the same people who are in shock over the fact that in the last 5 months more government spending has occured than in the last 200 years. If you pay taxes, it’s your money too. You have a right to say, “stop blowing my money!”

Jun 25, 2009 - 3:35 pm 101. Ms. Attitude:

Another thing…the main reason there are more conservatives in the movement is that most liberals don’t want to admit that the democrats in Washington are the biggest spenders. But as polls show the smart ones are comming around.

Jun 25, 2009 - 3:37 pm 102. Doc Washboard:

Just emailed Simon will no longer be shopping at their Folsom mall in California and will tell friends/workers/relatives to do the same.

I’m sure that they are already reeling from the blow.

Jun 25, 2009 - 3:38 pm 103. jharp:

Ms. Attitude:

“It’s not just about Obama, it’s about Washington’s elite who know nothing about working a 8-5 job. They continually raise taxes and it’s been worse in the last year than ever before.”

Obama just cut taxes, you fool.

“who are in shock over the fact that in the last 5 months more government spending has occured than in the last 200 years.”

This is flat out false. Turn off Limbaugh, Hannity, and Fox News. Are you that dense that you can’t see they are out and out liars.

“If you pay taxes, it’s your money too. You have a right to say, “stop blowing my money!””

You’ve also got that right if you don’t pay taxes.

0 out of three. Good job.

And as far as your claim that the teabaggers are a mix of independents, dems, and conservatives you might be right.

But they are overwhelming uneducated knuckleddragging troglodyte redneck bible thumping fools.

Jun 25, 2009 - 4:06 pm 104. Proud American Woman:

Isn’t it great that we live in the best country in the world where we can still have these little debates and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Now here goes mine. Ok to jharp, you really need to find a different hobby other than trying to piss off a bunch of conservatives or as you said “toothless rednecks”. Look we realize that you won’t see eye to eye with us and you know what we really don’t care! Hey you are entitled to your opinion. After all this America well for now anyway. Now to everyone else change the location of the TEA PARTY to public grounds and by all means boycott them malls if you wish to. This is America and tyranny must not be tolerated at any level! Our founding fathers where GREAT AMERICANS and they had the forsite to see that this government would try to control us and by damned it they where right! What we need now is to put them back in their places and show them that this is our country! Every single red blooded american has the right to be just as much a part of our country as those wanna be politicians! Seriously I don’t care what side the politician is on it seems they are all out for themselves. Sorry most of them are. If everyone really wanted a black president who would give us exactly what this country needs then I think that y’all should have supported ALAN KEYES for president. Now there is some hope and change and I bet it would be for the better not the worse. Now yes people I am long winded and I am also proud to say that I am a “toothless redneck” and at 27 years old, go figure! So I hope that everyone gets what I am saying. And I hope that even the libs will agree that this is America and we need the right to agree to disagree. And I really hope the government doesn’t want to go door to door to take away people’s guns because even democrats that own guns will have a problem with that. Now with all of this said it is time for the American people to fight for our freedoms once again however we must do so! GOD BLESS THE USA! and God bless you all!!!

Jun 25, 2009 - 4:11 pm 105. The Shadow:

I wont be shopping at the malls in Oklahoma and California either. Oh I forgot I don’t live any near them

Jun 25, 2009 - 4:12 pm 106. Ms. Attitude:

94. jharp: No one likes the additional debt. No one. I don’t know where you’ve been but Bush left us an economic catastrophe, the worst since the great depression, and most economists agreed that the stimulus package was the quickest and best way to handle it. I agree.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

The facts prove you wrong.

Jun 25, 2009 - 4:30 pm 107. Ms. Attitude:

PS: I only agree with their chart, not their opinion in the commentary!

Jun 25, 2009 - 4:33 pm 108. Evil Pundit:

It’s obvious that the idea of a boycott is a good one, because the liberal trolls are scared. That’s why they’re trying so hard to disrupt this thread.

Don’t be distracted.

Jun 25, 2009 - 4:55 pm 109. jharp:

Ms. Attitude:

“PS: I only agree with their chart, not their opinion in the commentary!”

That was some link. I actually agreed with it. I’ve posted the content for all to see.

In the Great Depression, Roosevelt tried deficit spending, but he was too timid. Then he stopped in 1937 and the economy nose-dived. It took the humongous deficits of WWII to pull us out of the Great Depression. Those deficits blasted the economy from depression into overdrive.
Of course after the war, we had to pay off a huge national debt, but during that time, from 1946 to 1980, the economy was mainly quite prosperous. We hit a bad recession when Reagan took office, and his early deficit spending made sense (though he didn’t know it). But then he continued to drive up the debt through the boom years that followed. That didn’t make any sense.
We are now headed into the worst slump since 1938, and you better hope Obama can fix it because that was not a pretty time. Unfortunately, as in the Great Depression, the extreme conservatives would rather trash the country than have our government succeed. They are much worse than Bush.
The main thing to remember is that, with consumer spending going down, business is going to lay people off—not hire them. You can’t blame business for this. It’s just a vicious cycle the economy gets into. Any you can’t blame consumers for not spending in bad times. The only way out of this, if we don’t want to wait 10 or 20 years, is for the government to spend, pay unemployment insurance, or give tax breaks to people who will spend (not the rich). Of course there’s also the problem of the banks. Obama should stop saving the bankers, and just take over the bad banks. Once they’re working they can be sold back to the private sector.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:00 pm 110. Strawman:

I came here expecting the trolls to be complaining about the undue influence of massive corporations on grassroots political activity.

Anybody? Nader? Buhler?

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:01 pm 111. Focus:

jharp:

You are so blindingly ignorant it hurts. Unfortunately, you have also revealed yourself to be lazy. And did I mention a bigot? This means there is little hope for correcting your ignorance.

Tell me exactly where this tax cut is? Can you provide any link? Or is the fact that you’ve made the statement proof enough? Maybe, as you are a lazy git, I should do your work for you (as whining selfish arrogant ignorant totalitarian socialists are so keen on):

Was this the tax cut you are talking about?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/obamas-budget-a.html

Or perhaps this one?

http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html

“If you pay taxes, it’s your money too. You have a right to say, “stop blowing my money!””

You’ve also got that right if you don’t pay taxes.

But, you see, that would sound sort of silly when one is not paying any taxes that can be blown. But that flew right over your head, didn’t it?

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:05 pm 112. jharp:

108. Evil Pundit:

“It’s obvious that the idea of a boycott is a good one, because the liberal trolls are scared. That’s why they’re trying so hard to disrupt this thread.”

Surely you aren’t serious. I honestly cannot believe what I see posted in the Wingnutosphere.

Breathtaking stupidity.

For God’s sake, a private company that as a policy does not allow any kind of political protest on their place of business has exercised their legal right to enforce their policy.

And you nitwits somehow find fault with them exercising their legal rights.

Fools, all of you, utter and complete fools.

Have at it. Boycott to your hearts content. I, for one, would love to see less ignorant white trash at the mall.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:08 pm 113. Bohemond:

” appeared after Obama cut taxes.”

Are you retarded, jharp, or just a liar? A 13$/wk withholding adhustment is not a tax cut. A $”refund” check to the 40% of households that pay no income tax is not a tax cut. But most of all, the fact that the “cut” is more than made up for by his shameless soak-the-rich *increaseas on the productive sector might just clue you in.

But wait, there’s more! There’s the trillion-dollar health care tax. There’s cap-and-tax. There’s the burden of unbelievable, inconceivable, batshit insane debt and its servicing- yes, a tax. And for Zero’s next act, there’s the hidden tax of massive inflation!

But then I don’t expect you to understand that last. Your driveling distortions of economic history make it plain that you’re hopeless, so I’ll simply take Twain’s advice about arguing and fools.

(BYW, moron, the cost of the Iraq war to date is $551B. And so far this is merely the worst economy since *Jimmy Carter*, whose miserable reign I note you pass over.)

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:27 pm 114. Roga:

They own mall properties huh? Sounds like a boycott is in order.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:35 pm 115. Rimshot:

“I, for one, would love to see less ignorant white trash at the mall.”

Stop looking at the mirrors.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:36 pm 116. Strawman:

In other news, Haliburton and Exxon prevent Code Pink from demonstrating for health care reform.

I’d like to see the reactions of our trolls with their newly found reverence for private property to that headline…

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:36 pm 117. Delia:

112. jharp:

“Have at it. Boycott to your hearts content. I, for one, would love to see less ignorant white trash at the mall.”

Replace ‘ignorant white trash’ with ‘ignorant black trash’ or ‘ignorant hispanic trash’ and then explain to me that you’re not a racist.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:37 pm 118. antaine:

jharp

“In case you didn’t know the teabaggers at best represent the feelings of about 20% of the population.”

I impeach the veracity of your statement. Cite your sources and stop making up statistics.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:37 pm 119. jharp:

113. Bohemond:

” appeared after Obama cut taxes.”

“Are you retarded, jharp, or just a liar? A 13$/wk withholding adhustment is not a tax cut.”

Only an uneducated knuckledragging dittohead would think that a tax credit is not a tax cut.

Go to school son. Ignorant and uninformed is no way to go through life.

“There’s the trillion-dollar health care tax.”

A complete fabrication.

Jun 25, 2009 - 5:46 pm 120. rvastar:

So where were you when George Bush and the GOP Congress doubled the debt during a period of growth.

Complaining about the spending…that’s where we were. Where are you you when the CBO projects Obama’s spending to make Bush look like a miser?
Pretending that it’s OK because “Bush did it first”. Pathetic. If Bush’s spending was wrong, then Obama’s is astronomically more so…especially since the vast bulk of that spending has nothing to with “stimulating” anything other than unions and welfare rolls.

Or started an unnecessary war the got us nothing but another $1 trillion in debt (and still counting), 4,500 killed, and 30,000 wounded and maimed.

Yeah…Bush really went CRAZY on defense spending!

Or when Bush and co. sat idly with the banks and Wall Street sole trillions.

Yeah…cuz stuff like this didn’t have anything to do with it. Note especially the spike in 1996, which just so happens to be one year after Obama represented ACORN in it’s successful drive to have the CRA revised in order to force those evil “banks” to make millions of loans to people who couldn’t afford them.

So which are you, jharp: a liar, a fool, or both?

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:11 pm 121. Ms. Attitude:

jharp=fool….can’t reason with him…all he sees is his opinion and nothing else matters. He deserves our pity and nothing else.

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:12 pm 122. rvastar:

Sorry, all…CRA link. See page 9.

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:15 pm 123. samuel - texas hunting man:

The right to own property should be one of the American values the Tea Party protesters revere. What’s with the outrage, its silly. Just move it somewhere else.

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:21 pm 124. bobbcat:

81. jharp: 76. jharp. “Why don’t you attend the next tea party nearest you, and most, if not all, your inane questions and commentary will be properly addressed.” (posted by moi)
Jun 25, 2009 – 1:43 pm

“You have got to be joking. Do you make it a practice of attending political rallies that you don’t even know what they are about?”

What makes your pea brain think I don’t know what these rallies are about? You are the one who needs to know what they are about, by bothering to attend one. Again, I suggest you do so, whereupon you might stop coming in here and making such a silly fool of yourself. LOL!

83. fred: “F you, jharp. We have a perfect right to protest the fact that Obama and Congress are quintupling the national debt. It will effectively destroy this country and we love our country too much to let people like you and your adored leader slay it. The devil has been in the details that people like you don’t notice or don’t care about. Selfish pr**k.”

Thank you, fred, for saving me the trouble………..:-)

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:44 pm 125. jharp:

120. rvastar:

“Complaining about the spending…that’s where we were.”

Is that right? I don’t recall any teabagging under Bush. Could you refresh my memory?

“Where are you you when the CBO projects Obama’s spending to make Bush look like a miser?
Pretending that it’s OK because “Bush did it first”.”

No. I am well aware that two wrongs don’t make a right. Are you not aware of the economic catastrophe when Obama took office? Obama’s spending was and is to keep the entire ecocnomy from collapsing. Bush doubled the debt under a period of growth.

Are you so ignorant as to not recognize the difference.

“If Bush’s spending was wrong, then Obama’s is astronomically more so”

See above

“especially since the vast bulk of that spending has nothing to with “stimulating” anything other than unions and welfare rolls.”

You are an ignorant fool. Go on with your teabagging. The whole world is laughing at you.

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:47 pm 126. bobbcat:

123. samuel-texas hunting man: “The right to own property should be one of the American values the Tea Party protesters revere. What’s with the outrage, its silly. Just move it somewhere else.”

Amen to that.

Jun 25, 2009 - 6:55 pm 127. jharp:

116. Strawman:

“In other news, Haliburton and Exxon prevent Code Pink from demonstrating for health care reform.

I’d like to see the reactions of our trolls with their newly found reverence for private property to that headline…”

I missed this beauty. And I really am dealing with the the worst of the ignorance in the U.S.

If Halliburton and Exxon declined in allowing political protest on their property that is their right. And anyone with half of a freakin brain would not object.

Good God, you people are ignorant fools.

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:07 pm 128. Acksiom:

I think the Tea Party protesters do revere it, and that’s why they’re trying to change the behavior of the mall owners by exerting their right to free speech DIRECTLY, instead of indirectly through the power of the State.

Your objection only makes sense if they’re trying to get the State to violate property rights. AFAICT, they’re not. They’re just exerting their own personal rights to free speech (and non-association, etc.) in order to pressure the owners to change their behavior. This is in fact inherently respectful of the right to property, since it necessarily ASSERTS that the mall owners are entitled to have control over their property ITFP.

The first contextual frame applied should almost always be that of the Citizen versus the State. Or, to put it in simple macro terms:

ANALYSIS OF RIGHTS

UR DOIN IT WRONG

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:34 pm 129. sheesh:

And so it begins, predictable as a family values philanderer. Out comes the excuse brigade to preemptively explain/blame the water-logged energy of the Tea Party Revolution. July 4th was going to be “beyond anything this country has ever seen” according to one hyperventilating commenter here not so long ago.

But as we liberals were predicting all along, the right wing doesn’t have the stones for sustained resistance. And now, with July 4 just a few days away, there isn’t a whisper of any Tea Party outside of Miss. Magillicutty’s Spinster Club. Face it, you’re all talk and no balls.

Viva la Lazy!

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:39 pm 130. RandyChandler:

“I, for one, would love to see less ignorant white trash at the mall.”

English must be your second language. Or third.

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:41 pm 131. Ms. Attitude:

123. samuel – texas hunting man:

They have!

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:42 pm 132. Ms. Attitude:

jharp, use your brain for something other than keeping your head from caving in! The $13 a week is taxes he is not witholding. Do you pay taxes? Do you understand what that means? I’ll tell you! It means next April 15 we have to PAY it back!!! DUH!!! He didn’t change the tax laws he just adjusted what we had taken out of our paychecks…and you bought it.

Jun 25, 2009 - 7:44 pm 133. Strawman:

He deserves our pity and nothing else.

A spanking. That usually stops them from banging their spoons on their highchairs.

Jun 25, 2009 - 8:30 pm 134. Wild Bill:

“jharp. Why don’t you attend the next tea party nearest you, and most, if not all, your inane questions and commentary will be properly addressed.
Jun 25, 2009 – 1:43 pm

You have got to be joking. Do you make it a practice of attending political rallies that you don’t even know what they are about?”

So you admit you know nothing about the Tea Parties yet you are on this blog making fun of people attending them and call us rednecks. Interesting.

Jun 25, 2009 - 8:44 pm 135. Stephen:

Look folks, if you want to protest, just go protest. Anywhere you like. The last thing you want to do with Mall owners, city officials, or anyone else is ask permission. Because if you do, they’ll begin talking insurance and liability, permits and all sorts of other things. Now the downside to this is you’re guaranteed to see some police. The upside is the publicity. If a few thousand people in 20+ cities nationwide provoked a police response on the 4th of July. You’ll be noticed. Do it with some regularity and you’ll become a movement. Do you think us geezers from the 60’s and 70’s asked permission? Feh.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:00 pm 136. Andre Kenji:

C´mon, we are speaking about PRIVATE PROPERTY here. If the owner doesn´t want a protest there simply go find another venue to do that. It´s so difficult to explain it?

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:07 pm 137. Thomas:

From the Jewish Federation of Greater Indianapolis website,
“http://www.jfgi.org/page.aspx?id=156621″

Hebrew U Recognizes the Generosity of Family Behind Simon Property Group.

“The Simon Family Building is named in tribute to the generosity of Melvin and Bren Simon and Family; Herbert Simon and Family; and David E. and Jacqueline S. Simon and Family. As part of the Scopus Student Village, the Simon Family Building is playing an important role in strengthening Jerusalem and Israel.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:15 pm 138. James S.:

I’m kind of torn on this one. I like the ideas behind the Tea Parties. However, I support Simon Property’s rights that they do not want to have a protest on their property. I also think it is a very poor buisiness decision. Malls are generally air conditioned. Estimated attendance is 20,000? Even if only 5,000 show up on a hot, sunny, July day, many of them will go inside the mall and BUY STUFF. The food court alone would be banking. If you are worried about the mess ask them to pay for cleanup. You can make a small profit on that as well. Dumb move Simon Property.

Someone pointed out that the protest has not been canceled, it has been moved to a public park. Is this true? Why was it not scheduled for a public park in the first place? Sounds like poor planning to me.

Jun 25, 2009 - 9:50 pm 139. fred:

I’ve noticed across the blog sites I visit, whenever the topic of Tea Party protests comes up, the topic gets swarmed by the operatives from the other side. It means that Axelrod and Emanuel are watching this very closely and they have people who organize a lot of Leftists to post on the conservative sites. Clearly, this movement worries the Left and the White House. If we were irrelevant, they would not even bother with us. We would not even merit a second look.

There is an internal political war heating up inside our country. It has actually been building for decades, but since the late Eighties the Left has been gathering momentum and power. How do I know this? I used to be on the other side from 1977-1987. Towards the end of Reagan’s second term the Left was beginning to gain ground in the places where opinion and worldview are most shaped: in education and media. Even thought the elder Bush crushed Dukakis in ‘88, you could see the ideas and terms of the debate shifting the other way. By the Nineties the Left had made an even larger jump. They had a setback in ‘94, but have been slowly gaining more ground since.

Notice the most prominent Leftist on this thread has latched on to the two themes that resonate with the rank and file over on that side: anti-capitalism (grinding away at the corporations) and anti-war (and old standby for the Left). Being familiar with their stock and trade, it makes no impression at all on me; I used to be an academic Marxist, so I know pretty much all the contours of their psyche and their ideological landscape.

Yuri Bezmenov has given a battery of interviews (back in the early Eighties)which cover the gamut of how the KGB and its proxies operated in the West. The first stage of their work involved “demoralization” – which entails sowing doubt about the foundations and ideas of Western Civilization. Once you sow doubt there, a people are ripe for all manner of disinformation and propaganda. This stage has already run its course in the United States. The Marxists are way beyond that stage now. However, most of us here either were not exposed to this demoralization or were in fact exposed to it but have undergone journeys of the mind that have taken us way beyond its paralyzing effects and have come out the other end rejecting socialism.

The Tea Parties are a sign that there is still hope that we can defeat the socialists.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:03 pm 140. jharp:

132. Ms. Attitude:

“Do you pay taxes? Do you understand what that means?”

Yes I do. I have an accounting degree from a Big Ten University and I understand exactly what it means.

Obama cut taxes for 95% of Americans. And the teabaggers are too damn dumb to realize it.

It is you that doesn’t understand. Turn off Limbaugh. And Hannity. And Fox News.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:13 pm 141. jharp:

134. Wild Bill:

“So you admit you know nothing about the Tea Parties yet you are on this blog making fun of people attending them and call us rednecks. Interesting.”

Yeah. I openly admit I have no idea what the tea parties are about. That is why I asked.

I do have the impression they are “I Hate Obama” gatherings though.

You tell me what they are about. Is it TEA Taxed Enough Already, after Obama cut taxes, or taxation without representation, or what.

Jun 25, 2009 - 10:19 pm 142. BrainTrust:

Simon does not own the property in question. Simon owns the adjacent property and merely has a reciprocal parking agreement which is typical in mixed use developments. The reciprocal parking easement does not confer any rights that a property owner would have … just the right of each owner to have its customers use the parking at large.

Simon is a big Obama supporter and his wife was on the inaugural committee.

Obama is a egomaniac control freak using the Chicago mafia goons as his enforcers.

A big ha ha to Jewish Simon as Obama gives Isreal the backhand and Jews worldwide are hated and blamed for the financial crisis. Malls are obsolete and we can only hope that Simon’s investments go in the tank sooner rather than later.

It appears they have miscalculated the benefits of their support for Obama as have many others.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:07 pm 143. rvastar:

And exactly as I predicted, ad hominem, red herrings, and straw men…not a fact for as far as the eye can see.

I PROVE that his lies about Bush’s spending compared to Obama’s are just that…LIES….what does he offer in rebuttal?

Nothing.

I PROVE that his lies about defense spending under Bush are just that…LIES…what does he offer in rebuttal?

Nothing.

I PROVE that his lies about banks and Wall st. are just that…LIES….what does he offer in rebuttal?

Nothing.

Thanks, Leftist turd

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:07 pm 144. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

My, are there ever a lot of “perfume salesmen” peddling their wares on PJM.

The problem is, their perfume smells like rat feces.

Spam all you want.

Nobody’s buying your perfume anymore.

Your perfume smells like rat feces.

Reduce your price all you want, you’re still going out of business.

You’re not too big to fail.

If you need to be reminded of the numbers:

Actual number of eligible voters?
225 million.
How many people actually voted for Obama?
69 million.
Percentage of votes?
30 percent.
A mandate to destroy America?
Hardly.

But I suppose if you multiply 69 million by Alinsky’s Rule No. One you get…
69 million. That’s still only 30 percent.
Let’s try that again.
69 million multiplied by Alinsky’s Rule No. One equals…
69 million. 30 percent.
Maybe I could apply that What’s That Guy’s Name – Piven thing.
Damn, where did I leave that Soviet-style calculator…
Gee, and where will all those millions of voters go who thought Obama was going to decriminalize marijuana? And all those voters who didn’t realize change meant communism?
And considering the damage that will be caused to future generations, let’s let them have a say in their future.
300 million minus 69 million equals…
231 million.
231 million Americans did not choose Communism/Fascism/Socialism/Rat Feces Perfume.

You are but a small percentage of the population.
You are nothing.
And you will be defeated.

Your perfume smells like rat feces.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:40 pm 145. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

George?

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:44 pm 146. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

Ring, ring.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:49 pm 147. Musing Lew:

You folks that keep trying to act like you’re promoting private property rights are either stupid or dishonest. The Simon Company is using a legal loop hole to assert their will over another person’s property. Lastly, folks like sheesh and jharp can just go pound sand up their a$$. These wannabe elitist snobs usually turn out to be some obese loser blogging out of their room in Mom’s basement. You can not talk logic to them. Their brain has been turned to silly putty by all the irradiated progressive entitlement promises that Obamessiah feeds them on a daily basis via his ABC infomercials and Olbermann laugh tracks.
Just call them names and be done with it. They are good for nothing but the occasional laughter of pity.

Musing Lew

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:49 pm 148. Jason:

To those who keep bringing up the “Private Property” cannard…
I don’t speak for the organizers of this event, but here are some points you may want to consider:

1. Simon Property Group DOES NOT own the property on which the Tea Party was to have been held. The old Macy’s parking lot is in front of an entrance that has long been sealed off. No one’s access would have been blocked.

2. George Thorndyke, the owner of the property in question, had agreed to allow the Atlanta Tea Party to use his property free of charge and had gone an extra step in sponsoring fireworks.

3. Although the event was to have occurred on private property not owned by Simon Property Group, the mall was able to assert authority on the matter by using heavy-handed tactics and legal jujitsu (e.g., reciprocal property easement agreements…many of which have apparently expired).

Atlanta-area Tea Party Patriots are not happy with the 11th hour interference, but unlike Congress, they understand the concept of contracts and the rule of law.

Sure, it’s Mr. Simon’s right to do with his property as he wishes, but as his potential customers, it is our right to stop supporting his politics with our purchases. If we don’t agree with his political views why wouldn’t we!

I’m sure I needn’t remind you that rights are a two-way street. They aren’t exclusively for the rich and powerful.

Jun 25, 2009 - 11:59 pm 149. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

Bummer. Maybe the next trio will be better.

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:06 am 150. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmScBRuZF0c&feature=channel

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:06 am 151. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn_BeOcYv5M

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:18 am 152. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

George? Is that you?

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:23 am 153. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

Just nod if you can hear me.

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:24 am 154. Sunglasses on a cloudy day:

I’m dying for a smoke.

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:26 am 155. Blarty Blarckleblart:

jharp completely owns you people. I hope he remembers to feed you and take you for the occasional walk. You probably need baths, too.

Jun 26, 2009 - 8:39 am 156. Blarty Blarckleblart:

The reciprocal parking easement does not confer any rights that a property owner would have … just the right of each owner to have its customers use the parking at large.

In other words, the right a property owner would have.

That’s because an easement IS a property right.

My god, you people are ignorant.

Jun 26, 2009 - 8:42 am 157. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Wow – in the same post we go from this:

To those who keep bringing up the “Private Property” cannard [sic]…

To this:

Sure, it’s Mr. Simon’s right to do with his property as he wishes…

So it’s a canard, except it isn’t. Depends on which paragraph one happens to be reading at the time.

Jun 26, 2009 - 8:47 am 158. Blarty Blarckleblart:

The Tea Parties are a sign that there is still hope that we can defeat the socialists.

Unless the capitalists – who apparently don’t want you around – keep enforcing their private property rights.

Jun 26, 2009 - 8:54 am 159. jharp:

fred:

“I’ve noticed across the blog sites I visit, whenever the topic of Tea Party protests comes up, the topic gets swarmed by the operatives from the other side.”

There definitely is a little truth to that. Congratulations. It’s one of few wingnuts truths.

“It means that Axelrod and Emanuel are watching this very closely and they have people who organize a lot of Leftists to post on the conservative sites. Clearly, this movement worries the Left and the White House.”

But then you jump right back to utter nonsense. Did you ever think that the reason the leftists comment so often on the teabagging protests is because it’s so easy. And more importantly because the entire concept is preposterous.

Just think about it. Obama cuts your taxes. And you organize a protest called TEA, Taxed Enough Already. Mind boggling.

Jun 26, 2009 - 9:09 am 160. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Did you ever think that the reason the leftists comment so often on the teabagging protests is because it’s so easy. And more importantly because the entire concept is preposterous.

Speak for yourself, jharp. I do it because David Axelrod pays me that sweet sweet Soros money.

Jun 26, 2009 - 9:14 am 161. Just Passing Through:

jharp said:

“I have an accounting degree from a Big Ten University and I understand exactly what it means.”

You’re a liar. Utterly stupid too, to make this claim while clinging to a middle school level ignorance of the difference between deferred withholdings and reducing taxes. And I think middle school is about right, given both your obsession with sex and your ignorance of it.

Jun 26, 2009 - 9:33 am 162. jharp:

Just Passing Through:

“ignorance of the difference between deferred withholdings and reducing taxes.”

It is not deferred withholdings. It is a tax credit that unquestionably reduces taxes.

And somehow the fact that it expires in one year has the wingnutosphere deeming it not a tax cut.

And you have the audacity to call someone stupid.

Jun 26, 2009 - 9:43 am 163. Strawman:

Trolly being strident. Bad trolly. Needs time out. Trolly go in time-out corner, and wear time-out hat. No fruit cup until trolly learn manners.

Jun 26, 2009 - 11:22 am 164. Blarty Blarckleblart:

…clinging to a middle school level ignorance of the difference between deferred withholdings and reducing taxes.

We can’t all have advanced degree-level ignorance like you.

Jun 26, 2009 - 11:31 am 165. sheesh:

Here, let me give you another excuse. You’re all struggling a bit with the already collapsed momentum of the Tea Party movement. You’re trying too hard to look for demons. Pick something at least a LITTLE BIT believable to explain why nobody is going to show up on July 4. I recommend this . . . “The weather!” There you go. Work with that. “It’s too hhhhhooooottttt!” or maybe “It’s raaaaaiiiinnnnyyy” or combine that whine with “I’m hhhuuuunnngggrrrryyy” or add specificity with “I want bbaaaarrrrbbbbeeecccuuuueeee.”

Wow, the power of the right wing riled up! Stunning! Terrifying! We’re shaking in our boots here on the left. How do you mange to generate such incredible numbers? The passion! The voice! The volume! America at its best. Really. We could all learn something from your pure bred patriotism. This is truly what solidarity looks like. Thank you, thank you for reminding us all that power is indeed in the hands of the people. It’s just that you’re not those people.

Now who wants mustard?

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:18 pm 166. sheesh:

Almost missed this most recent bit of right wing scat fascination . . .

143. rvastar: . . . “Thanks, Leftist turd”

The consistency never ceases to amaze. Meryl and Ms Attitude would be proud.

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:20 pm 167. Tricia Lynn McCollum:

Please listen to and share our song called “Freedom on a Firm Foundation” It echoes the sentiments of all Patriots today when dealing with the Govt. and our loss of voice As the Power of America is taken from us and re-distributed to Foreign Countries and dictators at the UN. You can view it on youtube, search: turquoiseband..or on our aimest. publishing site..http://bit.ly/iNZX3, also our myspace.com/turquoiseband

Jun 26, 2009 - 12:57 pm 168. SteveB/Colorado:

#44 karlstro1: “never in my life have I seen elected leaders mandate spending in such a fashion that has no fiscal responsibility….” Guess you slept through 8 years of Bush/Cheney. Friend of mine refers to Obama administration as Bush/Cheney III.

#56 Ben: “it would be nice if people who don’t like the tea parties came up with some intelligent debate based on the arguments the tea partiers are actually making…..”

#120 rvastar: “Bush really went crazy on defense spending……”

For Ben & Rvastar, I neither like or dislike the tea party crowd. After extensive reading & research, my view of the tea partiers is that they’re a bunch of inconsistent CINOs (“see-nos” = Conservative in Name Only).

Where were all the tea party citizens during 8 years of wasteful Bush/Cheney spending? I’m not enamored of Obama & the Dems, but at least I’m consistent in my opposition to ALL wasteful government spending.

Biggest problem with the tea partiers is that they oppose Obama’s stimulus and other Congressional pork spending. But I have yet to see one tea partier on PJM protesting the massive waste and cost overruns in Pentagon spending. Read this link and you’ll cry at how defense contractors are lining their pockets at taxpayer expense.

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-09-431T $300 billion ain’t chump change.

#113 Bohemond (to jharp): “BTW moron, the cost of the Iraq war to date is $551 billion….” And that is $551 billion that didn’t need to be spent. How quickly we forget that Saddam, even though he was a ruthless thug, received our strong support in the 1980s for his 8 year war with Iran.

I wonder how many of you tea party advocates belong to groups like Taxpayers for Common Sense or Citizens Against Government Waste? Or perhaps you just don’t believe in placing some money where your mouths are.

Jun 26, 2009 - 1:19 pm 169. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Tricia, I really enjoyed your song on youtube and have shared it with others.

If I might make a suggestion: mention your myspace page a couple hundred more times at the beginning and end of the song. Really drive the point home to that guy at the video poker machine.

Jun 26, 2009 - 1:26 pm 170. chris/independent:

“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened.”

by Norman Thomas….Sotomayer quotes him “often”….

cap and trade will send our jobs overseas…they vote today!!get ready for the bread lines…’call your reps!!!

Jun 26, 2009 - 2:18 pm 171. jharp:

“I wonder how many of you tea party advocates belong to groups like Taxpayers for Common Sense or Citizens Against Government Waste? Or perhaps you just don’t believe in placing some money where your mouths are.”

Jun 26, 2009 – 1:19 pm

The tea party advocates don’t even know what the hell they are protesting. I wouldn’t expect them to put a dime to where their mouths are. You’re talking about a group that takes Limbaugh, OReilly, Malkin, Hannity, Fox News, and so forth as serious journalists.

It’s very sad for our country as I’m sure they aren’t really bad people. Hell I play golf with a few of them. But the ignorance that is permeating throughout America has been killing us.

Witness the health care debate. Utter lunacy to preserve our current system. Yet wingnut central has the knuckledraggers believing the status quo must be preserved.

Jun 26, 2009 - 2:50 pm 172. Fen:

I’ve noticed across the blog sites I visit, whenever the topic of Tea Party protests comes up, the topic gets swarmed by the operatives from the other side. It means that Axelrod and Emanuel are watching this very closely and they have people who organize a lot of Leftists to post on the conservative sites. Clearly, this movement worries the Left and the White House. If we were irrelevant, they would not even bother with us. We would not even merit a second look.

I would add that the trollish arguments are all the same, on every blog I visit. They need to mix up their talking points a bit so it looks less coordinated. I would not be at all surprised to discover a room of Leftist Brownshirts all on the same payroll, cutting and pasting the same bs to every blog.

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:15 pm 173. rvastar:

But I have yet to see one tea partier on PJM protesting the massive waste and cost overruns in Pentagon spending.

Show us the govt federal dept. or program that doesn’t consist of “massive waste and cost overrunns”, steve.

And perhaps the reason we don’t get so upset about defense spending is because of this…it’s an expenditure that actually lies within the framework of the Constitution!

Can you say the same for just about anything else for which the federal govt steals our money?

So here’s some advice, steve: go cry your crocodile tears about the fed’s unconstitutional spending first before you talk to me about the defense spending of the past 8 years, which I’ve already demonstrated is actually lower than the average of the past 50 years.

A good place to start blubbering would be over the ever-expanding entitlement boondoggles that are already bankrupting the nation and that eat up far more money than the constitutionally-mandated defense spending.

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:18 pm 174. bobbcat:

140. jharp: “Obama cut taxes for 95% of Americans.”

With an alleged accounting degree, you buy this tripe. LOL!

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:27 pm 175. Oscar the Grump:

Sheesh
You know you’re cute, but you are really full of it. Don’t underestimate the ground swell, its there. There are lots of disenchanted “liberals” joining it. So go ahead and laugh, for now.

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:38 pm 176. Anonymous:

162. jharp:

It is not a tax credit. It is not a change in the tax rate. It is a change in the withholding formula. If your income is such that it is taxable next April 15th, the amount you will pay for taxes on income for 2009 is not reduced. You’ll pay that difference in withholding as taxes owed, or in a reduced return if you overpay during the year. And I use ‘you’ generically, as I suspect that you aren’t a taxpayer.

There’s something about numbers. Most people who are educated in their use, meaning, and application tend to respect them. They don’t throw them out to buttress a position when they are patently absurd. And they consider anyone who does as a credulous and immediately dismissible fool like yourself. The rest of the people who are educated in the use, meaning, and application of numbers use them to manipulate credulous fools like yourself who will parrot the figures and their interpretation fed to them without the slightest idea of their contradictions. You toss out utter nonsense that anyone who took and understood Economics 101 knows is utter nonsense. And even that is overshadowed by the ridicule anyone who is gainfully employed and pays taxes attaches to your nonsense.

Even the current administrations most fervent enablers are no longer trying very hard to cover the fact that the administration’s policies will require huge transfers of wealth from the economy to the government in the form of taxes. And there isn’t an accountant in America who doesn’t understand that every tax on every product or service is ultimately paid by the end user. Yet you bray about how smart you are with your ‘accounting’ degree from a big ten university.

Like I said, a liar in a futile and pitiful attempt to gain credibility and a particularly stupid one to fail so miserably at it – both you and your sockpuppet Blarckleblart.

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:40 pm 177. Just assing Through:

162. jharp:

It is not a tax credit. It is not a change in the tax rate. It is a change in the withholding formula. If your income is such that it is taxable next April 15th, the amount you will pay for taxes on income for 2009 is not reduced. You’ll pay that difference in withholding as taxes owed, or in a reduced return if you overpay during the year. And I use ‘you’ generically, as I suspect that you aren’t a taxpayer.

There’s something about numbers. Most people who are educated in their use, meaning, and application tend to respect them. They don’t throw them out to buttress a position when they are patently absurd. And they consider anyone who does as a credulous and immediately dismissible fool like yourself. The rest of the people who are educated in the use, meaning, and application of numbers use them to manipulate credulous fools like yourself who will parrot the figures and their interpretation fed to them without the slightest idea of their contradictions. You toss out utter nonsense that anyone who took and understood Economics 101 knows is utter nonsense. And even that is overshadowed by the ridicule anyone who is gainfully employed and pays taxes attaches to your nonsense.

Even the current administrations most fervent enablers are no longer trying very hard to cover the fact that the administration’s policies will require huge transfers of wealth from the economy to the government in the form of taxes. And there isn’t an accountant in America who doesn’t understand that every tax on every product or service is ultimately paid by the end user. Yet you bray about how smart you are with your ‘accounting’ degree from a big ten university.

Like I said, a liar in a futile and pitiful attempt to gain credibility and a particularly stupid one to fail so miserably at it – both you and your sockpuppet Blarckleblart.

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:41 pm 178. abi & co:

Check out David Horowitz’s site “discover the networks” Research George Soros & his “OSI” (Open Society Institute). Everything on Soros’ agenda is exactly what Obama has promised to do & is implementing at breakneck speed before the American public catches on. You’ll all see many connections…

Jun 26, 2009 - 3:43 pm 179. SteveB/Colorado:

#173 rvastar: “show us the government program that doesn’t consist of massive waste and cost overruns….” Suggest you visit the web site of Citizens Against Government Waste. I recall getting a long list of unnecessary government programs from them about a year ago in a mail piece. And re-read my post where I state or imply opposition to all wasteful government spending.

“perhaps the reason we don’t get upset about defense spending because it’s an expenditure that lies within the framework of the Constitution……” Yes, the authority for Congress to authorize a military is contained in Article I, Section 8. What I don’t see there is the authorization for spending $300 billion in cost overruns……. As I said, the tea party advocates are just CINOs to me until such time as they get serious about ALL waste in federal government spending.

“defense spending…..I’ve already noted….is actually lower than the average of the past 50 years….” That’s a nice trick; very similar to Dick Cheney’s comment that (budget) deficits didn’t matter as they were less than a certain percentage of GDP.

If one is a consistent conservative, then one pays attention to actual expenditures and the actual cost of procurement programs, not to some sort of “pie in the sky; I’m OK, you’re OK” fantasy cooked up by the Heritage Foundation. I suspect the H.F. will still be spouting that drivel as the country slides into bankruptcy.

Jun 26, 2009 - 4:08 pm 180. RightKlik:

This story keeps getting uglier.

Simon Properties shut down the Atlanta Tea Party by “asserting authority” on property agreements that had expired in 2004. They asserted rights they don’t have. If the information about the expired agreements had come to light sooner, the Atlanta Tea Party could have unfolded according to plan.

The good news coming from this story is that in spite of the heavy-handed deceptive sabotage, Atlanta-area Tea Party patriots will have their day. Metro-Atlanta Tea Party Patriots are joining forces and combining resources. Be there for the big Metro-Atlanta Tea Party on July 3, 6:00 PM at Jim Miller Park, 2245 Callaway Road, Marietta, GA.

http://tr.im/pVGk

Jun 26, 2009 - 6:51 pm 181. ditzyblond:

No more Potomac Mills.

Jun 26, 2009 - 7:22 pm 182. jharp:

177. Just assing Through:

“It is not a tax credit. It is not a change in the tax rate. It is a change in the withholding formula. If your income is such that it is taxable next April 15th, the amount you will pay for taxes on income for 2009 is not reduced. You’ll pay that difference in withholding as taxes owed, or in a reduced return if you overpay during the year.”

It is a tax credit.

It is not a change in the tax rate.

It is a change in the withholding rate because you are paying less in taxes.

And put the crack pipe away. 80% of your post made no sense at all.

Happy teabagging.

Jun 26, 2009 - 7:30 pm 183. rvastar:

\What I don’t see there is the authorization for spending $300 billion in cost overruns

And while you’re at it, why don’t you tell us where you see the authorization for Social
Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

That’s a nice trick

Care to explain how it’s a “trick”, Lefty?

Jun 26, 2009 - 11:30 pm 184. James S.:

148. Jason,
Thank you for your clarification. I was under the impression that Simon Properties did own the area the Tea Party was to be held on. Now it is doubly dumb. Both a heavy handed political move against something they have no business interfering in and a poor business decision.

And now they are gaining a small nationwide boycot as well. Tea Party attendees generally have jobs and pay for thier purchases with cash, credit or debit cards. Simon Properties, do the businesses in your malls that pay rent to you appreciate you turning away potential customers? 20,000 potential customers? Do the food courts in your malls accept food stamps? there is probably a reason they don’t. Think about the people you primarily want to sell stuff to and think about your decision as your profit drops and stores leave your properties for landlords that have their business’s better interests at heart.

Jun 27, 2009 - 2:22 am 185. Just Passing Through:

182. jharp:

You haven’t a minimum wage earners comprehension about taxes, and that withholding has no direct relationship to tax rates, but only to who holds the money before April 15th each year, do you? And even if you can’t get your head around that, you still can’t apply grade school math and figure out that if only 50% or so of wage earners actually pay taxes from their direct earnings, it is patently impossible for 95% of Americans to receive a tax cut from reduced withholdings. Even after stupidly sticking to the position that reduced withholdings are a ‘tax credit’.

You you do is screech out the talking points embraced by the useful idiots being manipulated by people who do understand the numbers and know you are incapable of thinking it through yourself.

So I’m not at all surprised that 80% of my post went over your head. I guarantee that every person reading the comments other than yourself and the sockpuppet you used to tell yourself how you ‘owned’ the discussion did understand it. Unlike yourself, their being wage earners and most probably part of the 50% or so of wage earners who actually pay taxes and all, they would understand both cash flow and that every increase in corporate taxes and every increase in taxes on products or services is paid by the end user.

And you’re too stupid to think it through and realize that even the wage earners below income levels where they pay taxes from direct earnings will be paying the increased corporate, product, and service taxes as end users.

That you are both dismally stupid and pathetically misinformed is evident in every idiotic position you take in every thread I’ve seen you post in. And in this thread you compound it by thinking that your middle school level tactic of vilifying your opponents by tagging them with a sexual practice that seem to obsess you somehow adds to your argument. When in actual fact your opponents and their maturity and their understanding of the issues you yourself bought into the thread are so far above you can’t even coherently address them. So your middle school ‘debating’ style only compounds the ompression that you are both dismally stupid and pathetically misinformed.

But you, reduced to insinuating that every commenter who counters your nonsense claims with factual counterpoint is a ‘teabagger’, think you owned them.

You really have no idea what you’re talking about at any level, do you? Like I said, a liar – and a very stupid one for claiming an ‘accounting degree from a big ten university’.

Jun 27, 2009 - 6:48 am 186. Just Passing Through:

corrections:

All you do is screech out…

…only compounds the impression…

Jun 27, 2009 - 6:51 am 187. ricci:

moneis are the new guns boycott is good picketing is better-lets rip a page out of the union playbook to better identify our concern and instantly inform.

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:16 am 188. jharp:

186. Just Passing Through:

Put the crack pipe away.

You did by accident stumble across one point that is true “that withholding has no direct relationship to tax rates” but that has nothing to do with Obama cutting taxes.

Obama’s tax cuts consist of a $400 credit for individuals and $800 for couples. And yeah, it affects 95% of American taxpayers.

How much you choose to have withheld is your business. You can pay now or pay later.

However the end result is you are paying $400 less, $800 for couples.

And somehow the wingnut brain can’t grasp that this is a tax cut.

As for the rest of your gobbledegook, if you put it into coherent sentences I’d be happy to address it.

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:33 am 189. jharp:

Here you go, Just Passing Through.

From Fox News!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/06/26/obamas-tax-increase-americans/

“The tax cut for 95% of Americans turned out to be a little $400 per worker tax credit, less than $8 per week, just for this year and next. Under the recently passed Democrat budget, that tax cut is gone after next year.”

How’s that make you feel about your TEA, Taxed Enough Already, parties?

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:43 am 190. Cindy Sue Causey:

Apologies if anyone else has already shared, but..

Boycotts, which I feel safe in a-suming have already been mentioned, don’t have to happen at just Gwinnett Place Mall where these shenanigans are occurring..

To that end, here is Simon.com’s own proffered URL for locating their ventures nearest you:

Simon.com :: FindAMall, the accessible non-flash version of course..

Just not showing up might not necessarily help express one’s point of view over the situation.. Sending them copies of receipts garnered from malls, nay, make that neighborhood mom-and-pop shops elsewhere, though, will..

In Peace and warmest wishes of Unity from Talking Rock..

Jun 27, 2009 - 10:39 am 191. Blarty Blarckleblart:

Here you go, Just Passing Through.

From Fox News!

Everybody knows FOX News is just far-left Soros-funded propaganda.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:08 am 192. Blarty Blarckleblart:

I love how you boneheads think a tax credit is something you have to pay back on April 15. Good god, you people are stupid.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:15 am 193. steveg:

Exactly how many leftist billionaires are in the USA? I can name a half dozen without thinking hard. What say we tax them at FDR’s highest marginal rate of 94%, and see how long they remain Democrats? Of course they would probably be like Soros, and find ways to not pay taxes.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:15 am 194. Blarty Blarckleblart:

What say we tax them at FDR’s highest marginal rate of 94%, and see how long they remain Democrats?

Or how about Ike’s top marginal rate of 91%? That crazy leftist.

You know who first significantly cut that rate? JFK and LBJ.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:31 am 195. jharp:

Blarty Blarckleblart:

“I love how you boneheads think a tax credit is something you have to pay back on April 15. Good god, you people are stupid.”

It really is stunning ignorance. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the drug addled Limbaugh was the one who planted the idea that the tax credit had to be paid back.

And to think these imbeciles bought it? Stunning. And the dolt “Just Passing Through” accused me of not have an Big Ten accounting degree to top off his moronic rants.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:32 am 196. Just Passing Through:

Last time, you idiot.

This statement from comment 140 is a lie:

Obama cut taxes for 95% of Americans.

It is the stupid statement I took issue with. It also puts the lie to your other statement in response to Ms Attitude in comment 140:

““Do you pay taxes? Do you understand what that means?””

“Yes I do. I have an accounting degree from a Big Ten University and I understand exactly what it means.”

The effect of the decrease in withholding is not a tax cut. It is not a check in the mail. It is not a tax rebate. It’s intended take less money weekly from wage earners to keep it in circulation as a part of the stimulus package. It will decrease the refund in 2010 of people who pay in more taxes during the year 2009 than they owed. It will increase the taxes owed of people who pay taxes but do not get a refund in 2010. As has been fruitlessly pointed out to you by several people here, because you cannot understand the distinction, it is a tax CREDIT that leaves taxes owed in the hands of the wage earner during 2009, not a tax cut. ALL it does is keep the money in the wage earners hands in 2009 instead of in the governments hands. It DOES NOT CUT THE TAXES 95% of American wage earners will pay for 2009 much less CUT THE TAXES of 95% of Americans.

Read the legislation. I did.

And the title of the article you linked to is:

‘Don’t Be Fooled — Obama Wants to Raise EVERYONE’S Taxes’

Did you even READ your own link? The author makes the point where JUST the LATEST tax increase passed by the House yesterday translates into a trickle down tax INCREASE of $1,600 to $3,200 each year per family. That’s PER FAMILY. Those in the 50% of wage earning households that pay federal income taxes AND the rest of the wage earning households that don’t. Cap and trade, the subject of the article you linked, RAISED taxes on EVERY American, working, non-working, rich, poor for the foreseeable future.

And you call posters here stupid because they ridicule your projecting your own stupidity about taxes onto them.

Which brings us to this:

‘As for the rest of your gobbledegook, if you put it into coherent sentences I’d be happy to address it.’

It is coherent. You’re incapable of understanding the relevant parts of it just as you’re incapable of understanding the link you provided that makes those same points based on one bill. It doesn’t support the world view you, as a useful idiot, have been indoctrinated in.

And you understood the rest, because the reference to middle school debating tactics caused you to drop the teabagging term.

Jun 27, 2009 - 12:00 pm 197. jharp:

Just Passing Through:

Alrigth, bozo, I’ll try again to make it easy for you to understand.

“it is a tax CREDIT that leaves taxes owed in the hands of the wage earner during 2009, not a tax cut.”

Yes, it is a tax credit. Good show. A tax credit that reduces the amount of tax you pay. And it does not have to paid back you imbecile.

“It DOES NOT CUT THE TAXES 95% of American wage earners will pay for 2009 much less CUT THE TAXES of 95% of Americans.”

Yes, it does. $400 for individuals and $800 for couples.

Your nonsense about the withholding rates has nothing to do with the amount of tax you pay. Nothing at all. It only affects when you pay it.

I give you credit though. You are dumber than a sack of hammers but by golly you’re a scrapper.

Jun 27, 2009 - 12:17 pm 198. jharp:

“Did you even READ your own link?”

Yeah, I read it. And it’s mostly filled with lies as Fox usually is.

I only linked it because I figured nitwits such as yourself might be interested to see that even Fox News admits than Obama cut taxes.

This makes you teabaggers look exactly like the ignorant fools you are.

TEA, Taxed Enough Already, parties. After Obama lowered taxes. Rolling on the floor hilarious.

Jun 27, 2009 - 12:22 pm 199. Thomas:

@193. steveg:

“Of course they would probably be like Soros, and find ways to not pay taxes.

From Wikipedia:
“The Quantum Group of Funds are privately owned hedge funds based on Curaçao (Netherlands Antilles) and Cayman Islands. They are currently advised by George Soros through his company Soros Fund Management.

Jun 27, 2009 - 1:53 pm 200. Blarty Blarckleblart:

For somebody named “Just Passing Through” she certainly spends a lot of time here.

And she still thinks yammering about “decreases in withholding” has fudge-all to do with the Obama tax credit that 95% of working taxpayers will be enjoying.

Jun 27, 2009 - 2:42 pm 201. Blarty Blarckleblart:

For those who don’t know what a tax credit is, but who aren’t so muleheaded that they refuse to learn, here’s a definition:

“a direct reduction in tax liability (not dependent on the taxpayer’s tax bracket)”

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=tax%20credit

Here’s another:

“An amount by which tax owed is reduced directly.”

http://www.prou.net/utilities/glossary/glossary11.html

One more:

“An amount that a taxpayer who meets certain criteria can subtract from tax owed.”

http://www.cccsbuffalo.org/glossary.asp

Of course they all say the same basic thing.

A tax credit is only “not a tax cut” if you define “tax cut” so narrowly that it means ONLY a reduction in tax rates. But only the intellectually dishonest would do that.

Jun 27, 2009 - 3:01 pm 202. SteveB/Colorado:

#183 rvastar: “while you’re at it, why don’t you show where you see the authorization for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid?” RV: you’ll find very little in the Constitution that authorizes much of anything regarding federal spending in today’s USA. Since you mention Social Security & Medicare, however, are we to assume that you consider money spent on senior citizens and medically disabled citizens as misspent?

“Care to explain how it’s a trick, lefty?” Why don’t you go back and re-read my posts. Heritage Foundation and Dick Cheney try to obscure the size of deficits and/or spending by casting the spending in terms of a percentage of GDP. I call that a “trick” as it takes attention away from the actual waste. I believe it was Mr. Cheney who made a comment during Bush/Cheney administration that “deficits don’t matter.” Basically, if you’re going to oppose waste in federal spending, it has to be across the board opposition. You can’t retain “sacred cows” like Pentagon cost overruns and still retain credibility.

“Lefty” Ahh, I see you’re joining the ranks of those who show their disagreement with some posters by denigrating them as “lefty;” “lib-tard;” “leftist turd;” “your perfume smells like rat feces;” etc. Reminds me of something I learned in college debate class. When you have a weak case, make personal attacks on your opponent to distract attention away from the weakness of your case. And no, I don’t condone JHarp’s language either.

Back to some basics for RV & any others: if you want to make a difference on wasteful government spending, stand up and join one of the groups I mentioned earlier. Or find a different group. Otherwise, your ranting on this site & attendance at sign-waving tea parties doesn’t amount to anything meaningful.

Jun 27, 2009 - 3:02 pm 203. DavidD:

Doesn’t JHarpie have anything BETTER to do than to post 28 different comments to this article?

JHarpie understands nothing about the Tea parties. They were designed to protest the taxes that BHO and the Democrat-controlled Congress are soon going to HAVE TO impose on ALL OF US to pay for all the ridiculous programs they are instituting.

Jun 27, 2009 - 3:50 pm 204. valerie:

I’ve been away from the radio most of this past week. Has Neal Boortz commented on this? What about Hannity or Rush?
It must go on!

Jun 27, 2009 - 3:59 pm 205. steveg:

Are you dopey indoctinated leftist doing your best to get the last post in?

Jun 27, 2009 - 4:03 pm 206. rvastar:

When you have a weak case, make personal attacks on your opponent to distract attention away from the weakness of your case.

Let’s see…where to begin….

Gauging govt spending by the percentage of GDP it consumes is a standard practice…or maybe we should simply pick an arbitrary dollar amount that we never stray from, regardless of things like cost of living, inflation, the passing of centuries, or populations increasing 10 fold.

Hey, I’ve got it. Why don’t you tell us what the first fed. govt’s budget was and we’ll just use that number!

So, again…I demonstrate the FACT that defense spending under the Bush Administration is actually lower – AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP – and what do you respond with?

“Ummm…Bush…ummm…Cheney…ummmm”.

I also demonstrate that while defense spending is Constitutionally sanctioned, pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE the fed. spends money on isn’t. And do you – the self-proclaimed super-fiscal-conservative – come back with? Straw man arguments about old people and the disabled.

Let’s just wait and see if your good vibrations about these entitlement money pits will somehow keep them from bankrupting this country. Tell us: what effect do think that will have on seniors and the disabled?

As for the name-calling, it’s meant to illustrate the utter contempt with which I view you and all like you. I have NO INTEREST in “engaging” you…only in demonstrating your ignorance, which I have succeeded at doing. My suggestion is that you grow a thicker skin cuz you’re going to need it in the coming years as more and more average Americans refuse to be cowed by you Leftist sh!tbags.

Jun 27, 2009 - 4:03 pm 207. sheesh:

175. Oscar the Grump: . . . “Don’t underestimate the ground swell, its there. There are lots of disenchanted “liberals” joining it. So go ahead and laugh, for now.”

How long is “for now”? Until July 4? Are you saying that July 4 is going to be everything conservatives predicted? Are you willing to put your name on that prediction? Or are you back-pedaling to suggest “for now” means “until it happens again, whenever that might be.”

Jun 27, 2009 - 4:40 pm 208. jharp:

DavidD:

“Doesn’t JHarpie have anything BETTER to do than to post 28 different comments to this article?”

I guess not. I posted them, didn’t I?

“JHarpie understands nothing about the Tea parties. They were designed to protest the taxes that BHO and the Democrat-controlled Congress are soon going to HAVE TO impose on ALL OF US to pay for all the ridiculous programs they are instituting.
Jun 27, 2009 – 3:50 pm”

You are right I don’t understand the tea parties and you are the first to try to answer. For that I thank you.

Interesting, it’s about the taxes they are “soon going to HAVE TO impose” huh?

You guys are friggin hopeless. Don’t you know all Obama has to do is cut taxes to pay for all of the GOP and Bush blunders?

Trillion dollar unnecessary war that kills 4,500 hundred of us? Just put it on the credit card.

700 billion to keep the world economy from collapse? Teabagging time!

Seriously, that’s the wingnut belief, right?

Jun 27, 2009 - 5:55 pm 209. SteveB/Colorado:

#206 rvastar: “let’s see if your good vibrations about these entitlement money pits…..” Gee, I don’t think I said anything at all about the entitlement programs. Yes, I agree with you that they have the potential of bankrupting the country; Medicare especially is a problem right now. But I don’t see you offering pro-active solutions.

“I demonstrate the fact that defense spending under the Bush administration is actually lower…..” But you continue to decline to focus on the actual amount of the wasted dollars? $300 billion in cost overruns isn’t chump change.

“more and more average Americans refuse to be cowed by you leftist shitbags…..” To quote the icon, Ronald Reagan: “there you go again.”

Jun 28, 2009 - 7:37 am 210. Just Passing Through:

Let me try to put this simply.

There is no tax cut. THERE IS NO change in the tax code that changes the amount of tax owed from income earned in 2009 and due April 15th, 2010, versus income earned in 2008 and due in 2009. A single income household gets to hold back $600 more this year from with holdings as part of the stimulus bill. Not a bad idea as that $600 per single income household multiplied by tens of millions is a shot in the arm for 2009’s economy. But that single income household pays the $600 back on April 15th, 2010.

No change in tax code. Nada. No tax cut. None.

You then get to do the same thing next year.

Anyone claiming that there is a tax cut is, as I’ve said, a useful fool. There is no tax cut.

Moving on:

Taxes have not been cut for 95% of Americans because of Obama’s policies, which you claim. Taxes have not been cut for 95% of American wage earners because of Obama’s policies, which better versed useful idiots claim. Taxes have not been cut for 95% of the American wage earners who actually pay income taxes because of Obama’s policies, which even better versed useful idiots claim.

However, end user taxes have increased for every American – every American, whether they are wage earners paying income taxes, wage earners who make less than the tax codes require to pay taxes, or people with no income living on public assistance.

That’s not true, you whine. Why, you have a degree in accounting from a big ten university you exclaim. That must credential you for the basis of screeching that is not true.

But it is. Why? Because anyone with the slightest understanding of taxes understands that all taxes on business, products, or services are passed down to the end user.

The across the board tax increase for 2009 based on legislation already pushed through the House, and assuming Friday’s new tax bill passes the Senate, now stands at somewhere between $1500 and $2000 per year for the average household. The difference between $1500 and $2000 is not based on claims about whether or not the tax increase is there, but how quickly they kick in and effect 2009 incomes. The amount will be more in 2010 as the increases would be in effect for the full year.

You want a list of tax increases passed in 2009, search it. And don’t fall back on some stupid back pedaling excuse like it’s Fox News etc etc for why you can’t read or can’t understand what your search comes up with. Have someone who has better than an ‘accounting degree from a big ten university’ help you read and explain the meaning of the information you find.

Try not to link to articles that dispute yourself.

Moving on:

Obama and the legislature have raised spending and taxes in a single year by historic percentages. Those taxes will be with us for the foreseeable future. And it is only a little more than halfway through the year with plenty of time for more increases.

And THAT, to answer the complete idiot jharps continuous whine about how he can’t understand what the TEA party movement is about, is what the TEA party movement is all about.

In a nutshell, its composed of people who are NOT useful idiots like jharp and who DO understand taxes.

It is not a redneck white trash Walmart movement that useful idiots like jharp have been programmed to believe.

It is NOT a conservative movement, though conservatives support it. Nor is it a progressive movement, and you won’t find any supporting it. It is a movement composed of liberals and moderates, blacks and white, republicans and democrats. They share one defining attribute. They are wage earners who pay taxes.

Wage earners who pay taxes. You have no experience with that, so you can’t understand it.

Moving on:

Do not push the lie that the Iraq war cost a trillion dollars. It makes you appear even more idiotic, if that is possible.

The 700 billion, by which you mean the stimulus package, has nothing to do with anything other than the US economy and will not even effect that significantly during 2009. Do not push that lie. It makes you appear even more idiotic, if that is possible.

The foremost effect that the Obama administration has had on the world economy is that the leader of the largest economic engine and in the world committed it to runaway deficit spending and a trillion dollar plus US deficit. That is the only direct effect the Obama administration has had on the world economy – a foreseeable and negative reinforcement of the weakness of the world economy.

And, you abysmal fool, Obama is putting every insane increase in government spending he can’t hide in end user taxes squarely on the credit card. What do you think deficit spending is?

Moving on:

The middle school debating tactic of using sexual innuendos is back. Found the idea of ‘teabagging’ just too titillating to drop, eh? Tell you what. Go to a TEA Party, walk into the crowd, and screech out, ‘Teabagging time!’. See what that gets you.

Better yet, finding the appropriate venue for your kinky little interest, walking in, dropping your pants, and screeching out, ‘Teabagging time!’ might better satisfy your fascination with it.

Jun 28, 2009 - 7:39 am 211. savage24:

I would think that by now everybody would know that the liberals are afraid of sunlight. They claim that the truth shall set you free, but the omly truth they allow is their own sick version of it. We also know that they cannot read an understand the Constitution. The news media can hide from the Tea Parties but they can’t hide from the American public, and it shows in their ratimgs.

Jun 28, 2009 - 7:45 am 212. jharp:

Just Passing Through:

“Let me try to put this simply.”

“There is no tax cut. No change in tax code. Nada. No tax cut. None.”

Completely. False.

A tax credit lowers your tax liability. And Obama lowered the tax liability for 95% of Americans. $400 for individuals and $800 for couples.

And you don’t have to pay it back.

Oh, and I do shout out teabagging time to my republican friends. And I’d be more than willing to do the same at a teabag party, only I wouldn’t ever consider letting myself be seen with a gathering of uneducated white trash.

Happy teabagging. I can’t wait to see the pictures.

Jun 28, 2009 - 9:13 am 213. jharp:

It’s a well known fact that most TeaBaggers are deviants and racists.

Sad that overcrowding prisons have allowed this trash to exist among us with brains.

Go back to your trailers, hillbillies. Your stupidity is not welcome among us who actually think.

Jun 28, 2009 - 9:25 am 214. jharp:

jharp @ Jun 28, 2009 – 9:25 am

Though I am flattered that I have made a significant enough impact here that someone has taken to posting under my handle, I don’t believe teabaggers are deviants or shouldn’t be allowed to exist.

Racists? Yes. Hillbillies? Yes.

Jun 28, 2009 - 9:34 am 215. jharp:

118. antaine:

Bottom line is that I am college-educated from a prestigious Big Ten University.

Dare I say it? Yes, I must. I am smarter about most everything than you. Especially economics.

President Obama is helping to make America the Utopia we all deserve.

Back to Teabagging for the rest of you losers. It’s the one thing you do (arguably), well.

Jun 28, 2009 - 9:36 am 216. jharp:

It’s hysterical. Some idiot teabagger is now trying to put a divide make among us who enthusiastically support the new social justice being implemented by the Obama administration.

Its tactic? Pretending it is me.

Hilarious. But go put down your mommies computer and grab your sheet. The KKK meeting is about to begin

Jun 28, 2009 - 9:53 am 217. jharp:

215. jharp: Jun 28, 2009 – 9:36 am

216. jharp: Jun 28, 2009 – 9:53 am

For the record. Not me. An impostor.

Jun 28, 2009 - 10:17 am 218. Just Passing Through:

jharp babbled:

‘Completely. False.

A tax credit lowers your tax liability. And Obama lowered the tax liability for 95% of Americans. $400 for individuals and $800 for couples.’

You are easily and by far the most ignorant troll to park himself here.

Obama deferred a small part of the tax liability. He did not lower it, he deferred it. He can call it a tax credit. Then you can parrot and call it a tax credit. That makes him a manipulator of credulous fools. That makes you a credulous fool. A marriage made in heaven.

It takes someone with absolutely no idea of the tax structure in the country to make the brain dead claims you make. You still insist, that even were there a tax cut, it would effect 95% of Americans. That statement, which you keep repeating, in and of itself is a definitive indication that you haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about.

Who do you believe takes your nonsense seriously? That you make the smallest defensible point? Blarty Blarckleblart?

I’ll leave you to continue the conversation with all your sock puppets. You should be able to eventually come to an agreement with yourself – it’ll take some work – that you are the smartest middle schooler in your district.

Jun 28, 2009 - 11:04 am 219. jharp:

218. Just Passing Through:

“Obama deferred a small part of the tax liability. He did not lower it, he deferred it. He can call it a tax credit.”

No. He didn’t defer anything. He gave individuals and couples earning less than 250,000 a $400 and $800 tax credit. That amount is deducted from the amount of taxes they pay. In other words, OBAMA LOWERED TAXES!

And you are right “he can call it a tax credit” because that is exactly what it is.

And Obama’s tax credit lowered taxes. Plain and simple.

And the ignorant teabaggers are trying to deny it.

Jun 28, 2009 - 11:58 am 220. jharp:

Here you go, Just Passing Through.

From the IRS’s webite. (IRS.gov)

Irrefutable evidence of the Obama tax cuts. Put that in you pipe and smoke it.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206038,00.html

Reduced Income Tax Withholding. For 2009 and 2010, the Making Work Pay provision of ARRA provides a refundable tax credit of up to $400 for working individuals and $800 for married taxpayers filing joint returns.

For people who receive a paycheck and are subject to income tax withholding, the credit will typically be received through an automated reduction of income tax withholding by the employer beginning in early spring 2009. These changes may result in an increase in take-home pay.

This tax credit starts to phase out for individual taxpayers with adjusted gross income in excess of $75,000, or $150,000 in the case of married couples filing jointly.

A taxpayer who does not have taxes withheld by an employer during the year can claim the credit on his or her tax return.

It is not necessary to submit Form W-4 to get the automatic withholding change. However, an employee with multiple jobs or married couples whose combined incomes place them in a higher tax bracket may decide to submit a revised W-4 to ensure enough withholding is held to cover tax on the combined incomes. Publication 919 provides additional guidance for adjusting your tax withholding. IRS also has a withholding calculator that could be helpful.

Jun 28, 2009 - 12:14 pm 221. Just Passing Through:

One last, last last time.

The numbers of wage earners that will end up realizing any advantage from the changes in with holding when their tax return is due in 2010 are in the low double digits. LOW double digits. Everybody else pays all, or most of it back. Obama has not lowered taxes on 95% of Americans. He has dramatically increased them on every household in the US, wage earners or not.

Having an accounting degree from a big ten university, I’m sure you’re familiar with sources on taxes, the economy – US and global – business, deficits, the difference between a tax credit and a tax cut. Sources like VOX and the Financial Times. I realize that the people who write for them only have masters, doctorates, fellowships, chairs and so on from places like Harvard, Wharton…and are certainly not up to the standards of an accounting degree from a big ten university. But even someone with an accounting degree from a big ten university might find one or two unique perspectives, perhaps a well documented graph or two. They might even stumble across a dispassionate apolitical analysis of what the numbers being bandied about lately might actually mean. Taxes, deficits, tax credits, percentages of who actually pays income taxes, who doesn’t, why there is no change in taxes paid in without changing the tax codes (which you have to do to cut taxes), why a tax credit is neither a tax rebate nor a tax cut, but taxable itself, value added taxes, end user taxes…

But then, being a graduate of a big ten university with a degree in accounting, I suppose you mastered that sort of thing as a freshman.

Jun 28, 2009 - 2:46 pm 222. jharp:

Just Passing Through:

“The numbers of wage earners that will end up realizing any advantage from the changes in with holding when their tax return is due in 2010 are in the low double digits. LOW double digits. Everybody else pays all, or most of it back.”

The numbers are right there in front of your face from the IRS’s website.

And no, the numbers of wage earners, those making 75K or 150K as a couple, receive a tax credit, that lowers there tax bill, of $400 or $800. The tax credit does not apply to those making over 250K so about 95% of Americans receive the credit.

And no one, no one, has to pay any of it back. Not one penny. It says it quite plainly ON THE IRS”S WEBSITE.

“why a tax credit is neither a tax rebate nor a tax cut, but taxable itself”

And you top off your stupidity with this beauty. A tax credit lowers your tax liability, you imbecile. It is not taxable itself.

Good grief. You are the dumbest, most stubborn wingnut hack I have ever run across.

It’s right there on the website of the IRS. In plain sight.

Jun 28, 2009 - 3:38 pm 223. jharp:

221. Just Passing Through:

Just curious. What is your educational background?

I just read through your posts again and cannot believe the ignorance displayed when it is in plain sight that Obama lowered the taxes paid by 95% of Americans.

And I must have missed this utter lunacy.

“why there is no change in taxes paid in without changing the tax codes (which you have to do to cut taxes)”

Which is exactly what Obama’s stimulus package did. It changed the tax code you buffoon.

He provided a tax credit, which is a change in the tax code, and provided for lower taxes for 95% of us.

My Lord. Now man up and admit you were wrong and have no idea what you are talking about.

By the way, where did you hear the nonsense you peddle? The drug addled Limbaugh? Hannity? Savage? Fox?

Jun 28, 2009 - 5:08 pm 224. jharp:

Try this, Just Passing Through. Maybe it’ll help you understand.

Let’s say you earned 65,000 in 2009. Under George Bush’s tax cuts you’d pay about 12,400 in federal income tax.

Along comes President Obama who enacts a $400 tax credit to those who earn less than 250,000.

At the end of 2009 when your tax bill is due you owe 12,000. $400 less.

And somehow you honestly believe this isn’t a tax cut? Seriously? This has me just shaking my head. I cannot believe anyone could think like that.

Now man up and admit you were wrong. And no need to apologize for the remarks about my intelligence when it is you who is out in left field. I forgive you.

Jun 28, 2009 - 5:28 pm 225. jharp:

Just Passing Through:

You are a coward. A yellow bellied coward.

Man up and admit your mistake. I understand this would make the entire teabag party is built on a fraud but that is nothing new. The right has been taking orders from frauds for as long as I can remember.

Jun 29, 2009 - 11:58 am 226. Falconsword:

I’m sorry, but private property trumps the argument, and ends it there. If this was to take place on the mall property, it is entirely within Simon Properties rights to not allow it. If there was a contract, than you have the right to sue for damages (lost revenues, etc), but that’s about it. They should have went for a city park, a lot harder to have some hack pull the rug out from under them, but I’m sure they wanted high impact visibility. Don’t shoot me, just a Libertarian who knows my rights. If I owned a mall and found out a bunch of socialists wanted to hold a mayday parade, I’d cancel them too.

This whole tea party thing has run its course. Time to step it up, if you people are serious. We need a million or two on the lawn in Washington. Who else is willing to spend some vacation time? I’m damn sure am!

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Jun 29, 2009 - 3:36 pm 227. Just Passing Through:

224. jharp:

You are as stupid as they come.

THERE IS NO CHANGE IN THE TAX RATE . THE STIMULUS BILL PROVIDES FOR DECREASED WITH HOLDINGS ONLY. THAT IS WHAT THE QUOTE FROM THE IRS YOU POSTED MEANS.

******READ THE INFO YOU YOURSELF PROVIDED OR HAVE SOMEONE WITH SOME INTELLIGENCE EXPLAIN IT TO YOU*******

ALL…ALL…IT MEANS IT THAT BASED ON WEEKLY INCOME, WITH HOLDING ARE DECREASED. AS WEEKLY INCOME PRORATES TO MORE THAN $125K, THE DECREASE IN WITH HOLDINGS GETS LESS.

AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN – THERE IS NO CHANGE IN TAX RATES FOR 2009. THE CHANGE IS IN THE WITH HOLDING FORMULA, NOT THE TAXABLE INCOME THAT THE TAX CODES WILL USE TO COMPUTE 2009 TAXES DUE APRIL 15TH 2010.

THERE IS NO CHANGE IN TAX RATE ON THE BOOKS, THEREFORE, THERE IS NO INCOME TAX CUT ON THE BOOKS.

OBAMA HAS YET TO SIGN ANYTHING INTO LAW THAT REDUCES TAX RATES ON ANYONE FOR 2009. IF HE HAD ANY INTENTION OF REDUCING 2009 TAXES BY $400 OR ANY OTHER FIGURE, HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN OUT $400 OR SOME OTHER FIGURE TAX REBATES AFTER APRIL 15TH 2009.

ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT OBAMA WILL SIGN ANYTHING INTO LAW THAT REDUCES TAXES ON ANY MORE THAN LOW DOUBLE DIGITS OF TAX PAYING WAGE EARNERS*****IF THAT*****WILL END UP PAYING LESS IS A FOOL.

AND I AM BEING OPTIMISTIC SAYING***IF THAT*** AS OBAMA HAS ALREADY STATED THAT HIS PROMISE TO REDUCE TAXES ON MIDDLE INCOME WAGE EARNERS IS NO LONGER A PROMISE. AND HE CAN DO THIS WITHOUT SIGNING ANYTHING TO RESCIND A TAX CUT BECAUSE HE HAS NOT SIGNED ANYTHING YET THAT PROVIDES FOR A TAX CUT. UNTIL HE DOES, THE REDUCTION IN WITH HOLDINGS IS TAXES OWED.

YOU HAVE NOTHING IN HAND OTHER THAN AN ANTICIPATED REDUCTION IN 2009 TAXES OWED EQUALING THE AMOUNT OF REDUCED WITH HOLDINGS BASED A PROMISE, FROM SOMEONE WHOSE PROMISES HAVE EXPIRATION DATES, THAT HE WILL SIGN ANYTHING INTO LAW THAT REDUCES 2009 TAX RATES ON ANYONE FOR 2009.

I think he will be forced by political expediency to sign something into law that provides for reduced rates for something in the 50k range of single income payers. But I could be wrong that he’ll even do that much as income tax revenues keep falling.

I think it’ll take about another 2 -3 months at the rate things are going before he openly reneges on the 2009 tax cut promise. I am going to enjoy the hell out of the reaction from useful idiots like yourself when all this finally dawns on them.

Jun 29, 2009 - 7:28 pm 228. Just Passing Through:

We’ll talk it over again in 2-3 months, useful idiot.

Until then cling to the:

‘Obama has lowered taxes on 95% of Americans’

moonbattery.

Tell all your friends.

Including your republican golfing buddys.

They must find you a hoot.

Jun 29, 2009 - 7:32 pm 229. jharp:

Just Passing Through:

“AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN – THERE IS NO CHANGE IN TAX RATES FOR 2009.”

Again and again and again and again and again.

It is a tax credit. $400 for individuals, $800 for couples, that are subtracted from your tax bill.

See above. If you paid $12,400 under the Bush tax cuts, you will now pay $12,000 after the Obama tax cuts.

You are an imbecile. And happy teabagging.

Jun 29, 2009 - 8:12 pm 230. jsok1948:

When I was working as a volunteer with the Obama campaign, we were doing nonpartisan voter registration (yes, I signed up Republicans just the same as Dems) and Simon refused to let us do voter registration on the grounds that they prohibit all forms of political activity on their private property. They probably figure that if they let one group do it, they’d have to let anyone do it. In fact, they let no one do it. Was that refusal a rightwing conspiracy or just exercise of private property rights? You folks need to get a life. Your group is clearly political so why are you surprised? Are you against private property or something? (LOL)

Jun 30, 2009 - 11:21 am