Pajamas Media

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The “Hizbullah as parasite” analogy is wrong because even if Hizbullah kills Lebanon, it will still be nourished by their Iranian/Syrian proxies and declare itself the “true Lebanon”. Instead, Hizbullah is a opportunistic carnivorous predator that is patiently waiting for the time to kill and present the Lebanese carcass at it’s masters’ feet.

With any luck this will have the same effect on the UN that Japan walking out had on the League of Nations. I doubt that it will but one can always hope.
Maybe we can move the UN from Turtle Bay to Beirut. Let the Diplos dodge sniper fire on their way to work and see if that doesn’t firm up their resolve to deal with the problem. I doubt that it will but one can always hope.

Israel and Syria talk about handing back Golan for peace.

Olmerts political opponents (and opponents of peace with Syria) push on an old scandal to oust him and blow up any deal.

Hezbo does its best to destroy Lebanon.

Interesting times!

Everyone feels sorry for the Lebanese people caught in the middle of this.

@Concerned Citizen,
Olmert has political opponents that favor peace with Syria. His involvement in scandals came up even before his tentative feelers for peace with Syria ever did. So, lets not try and blame Olmert’s scandalous behavior on Hawks and “hardliners” as if there are no proper reason’s to have him ousted. Olmert declared a war with objectives, got his soldiers killed without obtaining any of his stated objectives, killed hundreds of Lebanese without obtaining any of his stated objectives, destroyed billions of dollars worth of property without gaining any of his stated objectives and one needs to push and old scandal in order to oust him? The man was on Sharon’s right hand when Israel decided to pull out of Gaza, was heavily involved in the pull-out and presided over a series of events in which the citizens of the country he is meant to protect are consistently under attack by missiles coming from the strip of land he vacated. Here is a very appropriate time to bring up those who oppose peace with Syria as these are the same people who opposed getting out of Gaza, for the very foreseeable consequences being lived by both Israelis and Palestinians today. The fact that Israel’s current PM is so easily tied to scandals, be they old or new, is a commentary on him and not his opponents.

I feel sorry for all the little people caught in the middle of this situation. The fact is that the Lebanese government, when there has been one, has not acted in the best interests of it people for decades. They didn’t stop the PLO from attacking Israel back in the late 70’s and 80’s thus forcing Israel to protect itself with a buffer zone. Lebanon again failed to control its means of war by allowing Hezbo to raid Israel time and again, forcing Israel tried to protect itself by raiding back. Now the Lebanese are again hearing saber rattling from Hezbo and do nothing but allow them to take control of another section of its capital. Nobody in Lebanon is being held accountable for their actions, not Hezbo, not the pro-West government, not Syria, not Iran and you want to get on Israel because it wants to hold its Prime Minister accountable for his actions?

I realize you are a concerned citizen but keep in mind there are concerns and citizenships of all kinds. Peace with Syria concerns citizens of another country, who quite frankly, do not want to go back to the old days when Syrian soldiers used to launch missiles at Israeli farmers on a daily basis. Syria has been a belligerent towards Israel for 60 years which is long before Israel conquered the heights. Since that time in ‘67, the state of belligerency hasn’t ceased but the attacks have. That satisfies the concerns of this particular citizen.

Lebanon was doomed the minute they took in the Palestinian refugees none of the other Arab countries would accept. Islam took hold and put Christianity on trial for being non Muslim. Hezbollah/Hizbollah/Hizbo writes another chapter of proof ; “An addition of Muslims to a Nation is a subtraction in civilization”. A country once referred to as “The Riviera of the Middle East” is being turned into a “War Torn Ghetto”. Very sad.
American Christian Infidel
American Christian Infidel

Michael C,

Don’t forget there were and are Christian Palestinians in those camps.

To all others,

Doesn’t strike anyone as amazing that the huge costs in both human and financial terms, the ongoing insoluble problem of MidEast Peace are in the main the result of European powers that couldn’t get along with a segment of their own population (European Jewry) and are not now, nor ever have been held accountable for this? With all the pogroms, Dreyfus Affairs and the like, finally culminating in the Holocaust I can’t say I blame European Jewry for wanting out, I’d leave too! Just check out where most of the original leaders of Israel came from, it sure wasn’t the Middle East! Combine this with the fact that a good number of Jewish communities lived in the “Arab World” for centuries with very little persecution when compared to Europe! In fact if you take all the slaughtered by the “other” peoples of the Middle East from 622 AD until today, and compare it with the number of Jews slaughtered by European powers from 1622 AD ( a one thousand year late start) to the present you’ll find the Europeans “win” hands down as having killed more Jews! It is almost like this whole sordid situation throughout the Middle East, of which Lebanon’s misery is a part, has been caused by Europe’s problem of ethnic hatred of the Jews!

Just a thought.

Let’s start by rewarding pundits who get it right and dropping those who are consistently wrong. I’m talking about Abe Greenwald, who on April 13 published an article in Pajamas Media called “The Arab Spring Is Now,” saying that Lebanon was blossoming into a pro-Western democracy. Why do we keep listening to people who’ve been wrong over and over again?

Patrick,
I agree with your assessment of the European treatment of the Jewish population and while the Jewish situation today is a bit better then in some of that history, and much better then other times, one could hope for a better general attitude towards Jews and their state from Europe. It will be enough to be left to be. I disagree with you regarding the Jewish situation in the Middle East.

In the long history of Jewish life in Persia, from the time of Cyrus until just a few decades before the Arab conquests, Jews did quite well. We had great Jewish centers of learning in cities such as Sura and Pumbadesta. Many of the sages of the late Biblical Period to the time when the Talmud was written came to the Land of Israel from Persia. One of the lower kings, he who represented the Jews in the Persian Imperial Court, was a line of princes descended from King David. This office, and many of the honors bestowed on it by the Jewish population and the Persian nobility, was intact at the time of the Arab conquest.

From the time of the Jewish Rebellion in 70AD until the fall of the Byzantine Empire (again to the Arab Conquests) the Jews eked out some sort of life between pogroms. Much of the hatred from the Romans to the Jews stemmed from the fact that Jews in the Land of Israel held very good relations with those Jews living in Persia. Those communities respected each other, traded with each other, and advised each other even as the Romans were at war with the Persians. Much as Jews in America tried to help Jews living under the Soviets, Jews in Persia did what they could to relieve the suffering of Jews under the Romans. The Romans used interpretation of Christian texts to justify various State and Church directed programs meant to undermine their native Jewish population. This might be one root of some of the conspiracy-style myths told about the Jews by anti-Semites to this day.

Towards the end the Persian Empire, it’s long tradition of accepting the diversity of population exhausted, they gave into their worries over imperial survival and began to enforce a homogeneity of culture. This, of course, became a struggle for the Jews no different then the Spanish Inquisition (predating the Spanish by a few centuries) and lasted for a number of decades. When the Persians fell to the Arab Conquests most of those recent converts to Zoroastrianism (I’m not sure how many Jews succumbed to the Zoroastrian pressure but many other people who had lived under the Persian for centuries did convert to the Fire Cult of Zoroaster) quickly took on Islam, as it was easier to do business, work and gain office if one was Muslim.

The Muslims restored some freedoms to the Jews of Persia and Babylon. Ultimately all Jews in all the Muslim lands fell under Sharia Law. While Jews could practice as Jews, there were special taxes and various jobs and offices unavailable to Jews and the threat of, many times the experience of, violence was present through out the whole period. Many Jews wound up in the new centers of learning, eventually in Spain, Vilna, all over the place. Jews had lived in Egypt during Roman times, Alexandria being one center, and with the Arab Conquests they reunited with many of their Jewish brethren in Persia, sometimes meeting even in the Land of Israel. As the Muslim World declined, and certainly by the Ottoman Period, the Great Jewish Centers were in Europe. Some for a time in Spain, some in France but most notably in Eastern Europe.

Life for Jews in Muslim lands was mostly bearable, so long as life for Muslims was and the Jews knew their Sharia Law. The reason that the leadership which eventually organized the nearly hundred year old project of reestablishing a sovereign Jewish State in the Land of Israel is that Jews in Muslim countries had no legal right to organize in this way. Ironically it was Europe which developed a culture of liberty. It was long in coming to the Jews but it came. The ascendancy of the European powers (who held little chauvinism as regards the Land as to which faith laid claim to it), American Evangelicism, and a resurgent Jewish will to migration all provided their considerable energy to making the State of Israel possible. Once the land was made open to Jews, the Jews living under Sharia Law did all they could to escape to it. Some left behind considerable wealth to come to Israel. I know people who had to trek through the desert, smuggling themselves and their families through hostile lands and borders to get to Israel. Today, the largest Jewish population in Israel are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants from Muslim lands.

I wouldn’t be so quick in suggesting that the Europeans were uniquely responsible for the Jews returning to their land. The false starts in Jewish history were like a dream in which mass movements of population imagined themselves living the Exodus only to have the waters fall on them and not Pharaoh. Shabbatai Zvi (stopped by the Muslim Turks, btw) was just one dream differed. It just so happened that the hard work of the late 2nd millennium Jewish Centers in Europe was what eventually woke the dreamers so we could live a miracle.

Ami,

In paragraph 2 you give some history of the Jews in Persia. I would say that they were in Persia at this time because someone seriously misbehaved toward the Persian Empire before this! The razing of the first temple was a direct result of something on the order of a rebellion or an initial conquest occurring in what was then Israel. It was common practice for the conquerors to take as hostage parts of the noble families of any culture that was conquered and added to the empire or “re-conquered” due to rebellion to insure stability and encourage some kind of understanding (not to mention leverage over the direct leadership of the conquered people to better insure good behavior!) The Jews were not the only people taken to live in the Persian homeland somewhat by force. These hostages were generally treated well and had quite a bit of freedom and lived decent lives.
In you third paragraph you state that the Byzantine Empire fell to the Arabs. This is not correct it was the Ottoman Turks who were not Arabs. Constantinople fell in 1453 to Muhammad II (aka: The Conqueror) of the Ottoman Turkish Empire.
Also in the third paragraph you state that the Romans used interpretation of Christian texts to direct “various State and Church directed programs…” The Romans in 70 AD had no respect or concern for Christians this did not occur until 312 when Constantine won the Battle of the Milvian Bridge (you know the dream he had and the requirement he placed on his soldiers to put the cross on their shields.) In fact the Roman Emperors Diocletian in the years just before 302 and his successor, Galerius, both persecuted Christians to the “nth” degree. So any reference made to Romans paying attention to Christian texts as an excuse to level Jerusalem is incorrect. Keep in mind that the Jewish Rebellion of that time was not limited to the Fertile Crescent either. As an example, there was also a Jewish Revolt in Salamis, on the Eastern end of the Island in what in now known as Cyprus just north of Famagusta. Here the Jews slaughtered Romans and Greeks, so the Roman Legions fury at the Jews for this caused the Jews to get slaughtered in return. I suppose a fair question is “Why were the Jews revolting?” I don’t have the answer at least not in any form I consider valid. I do know that the Salamis affair was not due to any outright threats to the Jewish population living in Salamis if Roman records can be believed. One could ask also why this “rebellion” was fomented in any of the areas it occurred.
In paragraph 4 you speak of the Persians beginning to enforce homogeneity of culture. Again here, don’t think for a moment the Jews were the only that was set upon by this. While true, it targeted some of their “own” as well as other tribes living in what the Persians claimed as their “Empire” as it fell apart. It is rather telling to know that the Medes themselves were considered something like “hicks” or outsiders by the Chaldean Persians during this time and were not treated very well, and it was they (the Medes) that actually were responsible for the first Iranian Empire!
In paragraph 5 you mention a special tax Jews had to tolerate under Sharia Law. This special tax applied to all non-Muslims within the Islamic Empire and still exists today in Sharia Law. The Jews were not singled out here; Christians had to pay these taxes as well. Keep in mind that it was the “Law of the Land” and like or not if you wanted to live there you had to abide by the rules! No one, Jews included were being forced to stay.
In paragraph 6 you mention that the Jews had no legal right to organize “in this way.” Nor did anyone else or ethnic group for that matter, it was not targeting Jews only! Keep in mind an emperor is not likely to start giving territory and subsequently taxes away without it being taken by force.
You also mention in paragraph 6 that “once the land was open….the Jews living under Sharia Law did all they could to escape.” Be careful here Ami, I am a firsthand witness to some of this! The initial immigration of Jews to Israel started out of Europe and had nothing to do with Sharia Law. The term you use for “once the Land was open,” is open to debate as to when this occurred. Do you mean with the British dictates allowing the immigration initially, or from the time Israel gained its independence in 1948? My father was a “mercenary” pilot, hired by the nascent state of Israel to fly Jews that were willing to make the return from where they lived to Israel. I, as a young boy, rode in the cockpit of a number of these flights. There was a lot of confusion (particularly in Ethiopia) but little if any force I was aware of as these people left for Israel. True they left much of their household belongings behind (the aircraft were old DC-3, 4’s and some DC-6’s and could not carry everything the people had.) Kings Mohammed V and Hassan II of Morocco did in fact make pleas to stay (as with Mohammed V) and invited a return (as with Hassan II) of the Jews to Morocco. They seemed to feel the Jews were an important part of their culture and a beneficial part of their society! More to the point we (my dad with me in the jump seat or on the floor) skipped along the North Africa Coast and down in the Northeastern side of Africa and included the Southern Arabian Peninsula in the wanderings picking up Jews after 48’ war for independence. The bottom line here is that the war for independence was basically fought by European Jewry!
Also in paragraph 6 you mention the “treks” people took to get to Israel. The fact that these treks took place does not make them anything particularly Jewish in nature. Plenty of other peoples around the world have done the same thing while seeking a better life, more religious freedom or freedom from oppression in general. I don’t accept any “pity party” emotional displays for these treks no matter who made them nor for what reason(s). You only have to look to the American settlers, or the Pilgrims to see the same kind of thing in my country, or the Sudanese villagers in Darfur running across the border to Tchad to escape violence and persecution or the Hmong in Laos running from the Pathet Lao and Vietnamese to see other people suffering from the same kind of thing. Again, this is not solely a Jewish Tragedy or event and to make it look so is unfair to the larger numbers of peoples that have had to endue the same thing.
Finally in paragraph 6 you state that the “largest Jewish population in Israel are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants from Muslim Lands.” This is patently not the case Ami, and you know it. You are saying in effect that the nation state of Israel was started by Jews primarily coming from other Muslim lands. I should say that I suspect you are trying to hide the fact that it was European Jewry that was largely responsible for the establishment of the nation state of Israel. Shame on you for playing word games here, you won’t garner any sympathy or empathy from me for these kinds of shenanigans! While it may be true TODAY, I’m not sure; it was NOT true in 1948 and earlier!
In paragraph 7 of your response you advise me not to be too quick in suggesting that Europeans were uniquely responsible for the Jewish will to immigrate to “their own homeland.” Further you indicate that Shabbetai Zvi was “stopped” by the Muslim Turks in this ongoing dream of return. One cannot argue that for many years there has always been a sentiment, sometimes weak, sometimes strong (depending on the level of persecution at the time) about the idea of creating a Jewish homeland with a focus on the ancient land of Israel. This is due, and understandably so, in part for religious reasons, and the Biblical promise by God of the land of Israel to his chosen people. Benjamin Disraeli contributed to these thoughts in writing as did many others after him. I am personally not sure of any specifics before Disraeli to be honest, although there may have been. Now I also understand that this Shabbetai Zvi history is one of an individual that claimed to be a messiah of some sorts for the Jewish people of the world. The subsequent use of his name has become synonymous with the return of Jewish peoples to Israel. God may be involved, but to me that is an irrelevant argument because the guns the European Jewry got hold of is what won the war for independence. Given the number of items in history like the Balfour Declaration, the writings of Theodor Herzl and so on, most of which came out of Europe (including Mr. Shabbetai himself in the 1620’s I think) it is hard not to accuse the Europeans in general for the mess in the Middle East. Who leaves a place where they are generally happy, safe, and feel secure? A huge number of Jews living here in the US haven’t had the impetus to leave. Admittedly some have, but by and large the numbers are small when compared to those that stayed here when offered the opportunity to “return.” I think I’ll keep my opinion!
A couple of notes to add to this discussion follow. Are you aware that the Ottoman Turkish Empire had Jewish Financial Viziers occasionally? t\The Ottoman Turks (and their Iron boot) did not really care what you believed in as long as you paid the taxes. Next all the information I’ve gained about how many Jews have been slaughtered by one side or the other was gained from Jewish and/or Israeli sources. I did not accept any source that was “pro-Jewish” or “anti-Jewish.” This exclusion included Christian and Islamic sources that were either pro or con Jewish in nature and tenor. Basically, if it was a Jewish source, it wasn’t accepted.
Ami, have you ever asked yourself why Jews seem to be “singled” out? I’d really like to hear any thoughts you have on this.

PS: Use of the term “little people” in your initial post is really bad form, they matter because that is where the suicide bombers etc. come from!

Ami,

One correction of my writing above, the last line of my comments to your response states that “Basically, if it was a Jewish source…” I meant to say that if it was NOT a Jewish source I wouldn’t accept it.

Apologies