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	<title>Comments on: Making the Case for Gay Marriage</title>
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		<title>By: the gay one</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-409855</link>
		<dc:creator>the gay one</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-409855</guid>
		<description>all you haters have no say in this.. why does it even bother you if we gays get married or not?? stay out of peoples lives..and argue about something that involves you! everybody is diffrent .. and everyone should have the same rights. 
(i recommend you watch the movie &quot;prayers for bobby&quot; it changed a lot of peoples way of thinking)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all you haters have no say in this.. why does it even bother you if we gays get married or not?? stay out of peoples lives..and argue about something that involves you! everybody is diffrent .. and everyone should have the same rights.<br />
(i recommend you watch the movie &#8220;prayers for bobby&#8221; it changed a lot of peoples way of thinking)</p>
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		<title>By: Buck Futter</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-155455</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck Futter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-155455</guid>
		<description>I would be against any kind of law or statute that would discriminate against a certain segment of the population.  Keep in mind it wasn&#039;t too long ago that women were not allowed to vote, and interracial couples could not get married in certain states as late as the 60s.  If two people love each other shouldn&#039;t they be allowed to get married?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be against any kind of law or statute that would discriminate against a certain segment of the population.  Keep in mind it wasn&#8217;t too long ago that women were not allowed to vote, and interracial couples could not get married in certain states as late as the 60s.  If two people love each other shouldn&#8217;t they be allowed to get married?</p>
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		<title>By: CRT</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-154982</link>
		<dc:creator>CRT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-154982</guid>
		<description>#24: It is true that in France there are dual civil and religious ceremonies.  It is not true that this &quot;gets the government out of the marriage business&quot; in France.  In 2007, same-sex marriage was rejected in France after a commission which studied the issue concluded that  its ultimate decision to advise against gay marriage and adoption was meant “to affirm and protect children’s rights and the primacy of those rights over adults’ aspirations.”   

The French public strongly concurs.   In all other respects, the French  public strongly favors giving same-sex couples rights equal to married couples.

I used to review clinical trial designs for compliance with international standards for protection of human subjects.  Given our present state of knowledge, it is easy for me to see how a government could decide that the placement of adoptive children with same-sex couples does not meet international standards for protection of the rights of experimental subjects.  

This does not mean that gays and lesbians cannot be good parents.  But the preponderance of experimental evidence points to a stable, low-stress marriage with the child&#039;s biological parents as the ideal family form.  This model is worth preserving for the sake of the majority of children who will be born to heterosexual couples.  

I do not believe that approval of same-sex marriage will not change expectations for heterosexual marriage.  Half of the gay married men in Massachusetts say they don&#039;t place a high value on sexual fidelity.  To me, this changes societal expectations for the words &quot;husband&quot; and &quot;marriage&quot;.  

When the American Academy of Pediatrics came out with its statement in support of same-sex parenting, the organization received an unprecedented amount of critical feedback from its members.  The natural response of the head of the committee which issued the statement was to express alarm that this negative feedback could damage the effort to use the Academy as a vehicle for positive change.  Why wasn&#039;t she instead curious about the views and experiences of the membership of the organization?

The leadership of our professional organizations is, at this time, heavily weighted with activists of one sort or another.  People without a strong agenda don&#039;t fight as hard for leadership in such organizations.  It is hard for me to trust the &quot;official positions&quot; of these organizations because of the activist nature of their leadership.

Many existing studies of gay and lesbian parenting are characterized by poor study design, self-reporting by mothers and/or investigator bias.  The  data on same-sex parenting are very limited in sociological terms.  We have no randomized generational studies.

We do now know that little children growing up without fathers (with single mothers) face a number of extra challenges.  Girls enter puberty sooner and become sexually active at a younger age.  Boys choose negative male role models.  There are many additional negative statistical outcomes for these children.  

&quot;Father hunger&quot; is well-recognized among the children of single moms.  Rosie O&#039;Donnell&#039;s little boy wanted a daddy when he was six.  One pro-lesbian parenting researcher found that some children of lesbian couples were obsessed with male images on television.   One little boy had to be &quot;pried off the leg&quot; of a male day care worker every day.  The child&#039;s lesbian parents were happy that their child had a daddy substitute and that they didn&#039;t have to worry about him because of this.  The researcher wasn&#039;t particularly concerned.

I can imagine certain situations where it would be preferable to place a child with a same-sex couple or a single parent.  Even Catholic Charities sometimes placed children with same-sex couples before the same-sex marriage issue became a threat to their adoption services.  

But I believe that the prudent course is to place most adoptive children with a mother and father.   I don&#039;t want the government to direct adoptions on the basis of fairness to prospective parents with different sexual orientations rather than on the basis of the best interests of the child.    

I don&#039;t think that the effects of same-sex parenting on children will be well-characterized until this family form becomes common in low-income areas for a generation.  Future objective studies may be scuttled by civil rights concerns as married same-sex couples become a &quot;protected class&quot; with equal rights to children.  We may be limited in our ability to make life better for both the children of heterosexual couples and the children of same-sex couples in the future because of the stridency of gay activists.  

I don&#039;t know how to explain to a little adopted child that his or her desire for a daddy or mommy takes second place to the rights of same-sex parents.   Same-sex parents from the intellectual set may be able to compensate for this deprivation adequately.  I am not as optimistic for children of same-sex couples in low-income areas after observing the attitudes toward children&#039;s needs in various non-traditional heterosexual family forms in my town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24: It is true that in France there are dual civil and religious ceremonies.  It is not true that this &#8220;gets the government out of the marriage business&#8221; in France.  In 2007, same-sex marriage was rejected in France after a commission which studied the issue concluded that  its ultimate decision to advise against gay marriage and adoption was meant “to affirm and protect children’s rights and the primacy of those rights over adults’ aspirations.”   </p>
<p>The French public strongly concurs.   In all other respects, the French  public strongly favors giving same-sex couples rights equal to married couples.</p>
<p>I used to review clinical trial designs for compliance with international standards for protection of human subjects.  Given our present state of knowledge, it is easy for me to see how a government could decide that the placement of adoptive children with same-sex couples does not meet international standards for protection of the rights of experimental subjects.  </p>
<p>This does not mean that gays and lesbians cannot be good parents.  But the preponderance of experimental evidence points to a stable, low-stress marriage with the child&#8217;s biological parents as the ideal family form.  This model is worth preserving for the sake of the majority of children who will be born to heterosexual couples.  </p>
<p>I do not believe that approval of same-sex marriage will not change expectations for heterosexual marriage.  Half of the gay married men in Massachusetts say they don&#8217;t place a high value on sexual fidelity.  To me, this changes societal expectations for the words &#8220;husband&#8221; and &#8220;marriage&#8221;.  </p>
<p>When the American Academy of Pediatrics came out with its statement in support of same-sex parenting, the organization received an unprecedented amount of critical feedback from its members.  The natural response of the head of the committee which issued the statement was to express alarm that this negative feedback could damage the effort to use the Academy as a vehicle for positive change.  Why wasn&#8217;t she instead curious about the views and experiences of the membership of the organization?</p>
<p>The leadership of our professional organizations is, at this time, heavily weighted with activists of one sort or another.  People without a strong agenda don&#8217;t fight as hard for leadership in such organizations.  It is hard for me to trust the &#8220;official positions&#8221; of these organizations because of the activist nature of their leadership.</p>
<p>Many existing studies of gay and lesbian parenting are characterized by poor study design, self-reporting by mothers and/or investigator bias.  The  data on same-sex parenting are very limited in sociological terms.  We have no randomized generational studies.</p>
<p>We do now know that little children growing up without fathers (with single mothers) face a number of extra challenges.  Girls enter puberty sooner and become sexually active at a younger age.  Boys choose negative male role models.  There are many additional negative statistical outcomes for these children.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Father hunger&#8221; is well-recognized among the children of single moms.  Rosie O&#8217;Donnell&#8217;s little boy wanted a daddy when he was six.  One pro-lesbian parenting researcher found that some children of lesbian couples were obsessed with male images on television.   One little boy had to be &#8220;pried off the leg&#8221; of a male day care worker every day.  The child&#8217;s lesbian parents were happy that their child had a daddy substitute and that they didn&#8217;t have to worry about him because of this.  The researcher wasn&#8217;t particularly concerned.</p>
<p>I can imagine certain situations where it would be preferable to place a child with a same-sex couple or a single parent.  Even Catholic Charities sometimes placed children with same-sex couples before the same-sex marriage issue became a threat to their adoption services.  </p>
<p>But I believe that the prudent course is to place most adoptive children with a mother and father.   I don&#8217;t want the government to direct adoptions on the basis of fairness to prospective parents with different sexual orientations rather than on the basis of the best interests of the child.    </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that the effects of same-sex parenting on children will be well-characterized until this family form becomes common in low-income areas for a generation.  Future objective studies may be scuttled by civil rights concerns as married same-sex couples become a &#8220;protected class&#8221; with equal rights to children.  We may be limited in our ability to make life better for both the children of heterosexual couples and the children of same-sex couples in the future because of the stridency of gay activists.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to explain to a little adopted child that his or her desire for a daddy or mommy takes second place to the rights of same-sex parents.   Same-sex parents from the intellectual set may be able to compensate for this deprivation adequately.  I am not as optimistic for children of same-sex couples in low-income areas after observing the attitudes toward children&#8217;s needs in various non-traditional heterosexual family forms in my town.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-153082</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-153082</guid>
		<description>I find the gay marriage &quot;debate&quot; dishonest, shallow and subversive.  

The response of gay advocates to the LEGAL voting against a status that was shoved down Californian&#039;s throats by legal fiat shows how little respect homosexuals have for the institution of marriage, since they see it as little more than a social entitlement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the gay marriage &#8220;debate&#8221; dishonest, shallow and subversive.  </p>
<p>The response of gay advocates to the LEGAL voting against a status that was shoved down Californian&#8217;s throats by legal fiat shows how little respect homosexuals have for the institution of marriage, since they see it as little more than a social entitlement.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Know</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-152561</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-152561</guid>
		<description>So many of the citizens of America are not going with values and morals these days.  That is the reason that I believe the liberal illuminati got control, but with some of the issues on the ballot, it shows there&#039;s still some hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So many of the citizens of America are not going with values and morals these days.  That is the reason that I believe the liberal illuminati got control, but with some of the issues on the ballot, it shows there&#8217;s still some hope.</p>
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		<title>By: designated conservative</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-151794</link>
		<dc:creator>designated conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-151794</guid>
		<description>I believe in democracy and the supremacy of the people.  In the U.S., laws are established by the people and through the people’s elected representatives in Congress and state legislatures.  The liberal activism of the California Supreme Court offends me.  It is not the place of the judiciary to make laws, and it is certainly not the place of a judge to stick his or her finger in the proverbial winds of culture to decide cases. 

I&#039;m glad to hear the gay marriage activists finally acknowledge that their court strategy isn&#039;t good for them or America.  I&#039;m prepared to fight the good fight at the ballot box, so should they.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe in democracy and the supremacy of the people.  In the U.S., laws are established by the people and through the people’s elected representatives in Congress and state legislatures.  The liberal activism of the California Supreme Court offends me.  It is not the place of the judiciary to make laws, and it is certainly not the place of a judge to stick his or her finger in the proverbial winds of culture to decide cases. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to hear the gay marriage activists finally acknowledge that their court strategy isn&#8217;t good for them or America.  I&#8217;m prepared to fight the good fight at the ballot box, so should they.</p>
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		<title>By: Teddy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-151558</link>
		<dc:creator>Teddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-151558</guid>
		<description>The real danger to marriage is not allowing homosexuals to form legal unions, but the ease at which normal people dissolve their sacred unions. Divorces need to become, if not illegal, extremely difficult to obtain. And those who do end up divorced should be shunned for breaking God&#039;s law. Look at some of our leaders -- Ronald Reagan, John McCain, Newt Gringrich, Rudy Guiliani -- twice and thrice married. They make a mockery of marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real danger to marriage is not allowing homosexuals to form legal unions, but the ease at which normal people dissolve their sacred unions. Divorces need to become, if not illegal, extremely difficult to obtain. And those who do end up divorced should be shunned for breaking God&#8217;s law. Look at some of our leaders &#8212; Ronald Reagan, John McCain, Newt Gringrich, Rudy Guiliani &#8212; twice and thrice married. They make a mockery of marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-11-12 &#171; Brain Music</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-150520</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-11-12 &#171; Brain Music</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-150520</guid>
		<description>[...] Pajamas Media » Making the Case for Gay Marriage (tags: gaymarriage election08 prop8) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pajamas Media » Making the Case for Gay Marriage (tags: gaymarriage election08 prop8) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Making the Case for Gay Marriage &#171; SF NeoCon</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-150021</link>
		<dc:creator>Making the Case for Gay Marriage &#171; SF NeoCon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-150021</guid>
		<description>[...] http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/ &#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/" rel="nofollow">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/</a> &nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: aloysiusmiller</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/making-the-case-for-gay-marriage/comment-page-2/#comment-149956</link>
		<dc:creator>aloysiusmiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=38483#comment-149956</guid>
		<description>What is this stupidity about removing state sanction for marriage of any sort? Will that mean no state sanction for any contract? Or no enforcement in the courts for marriage contracts? Or no court interference with any marriage contract to make it unenforceable? Get real. Marriage law is just the  standard form contract for marriage. The state (courts) mare not getting out of the contracts business and the legislatures are always adopting uniform codes. Stop this nonsense about no state recognition of marriage. It is a non-starter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is this stupidity about removing state sanction for marriage of any sort? Will that mean no state sanction for any contract? Or no enforcement in the courts for marriage contracts? Or no court interference with any marriage contract to make it unenforceable? Get real. Marriage law is just the  standard form contract for marriage. The state (courts) mare not getting out of the contracts business and the legislatures are always adopting uniform codes. Stop this nonsense about no state recognition of marriage. It is a non-starter.</p>
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